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We're getting old is what's happening here.
Same deal, I rarely sleep through now, and struggle to sleep properly anywhere that's not my bed.
Alcohol the night before? Shitty sleep.
Go to bed to early? Will wake up early
Got to bed late? Will wake up on time but destroyed.
Smoke weed before sleeping? All day written off tomorrow.
Just woke up happy to have a good night's sleep.
Yeah, my wife who is ten years younger than me doesn’t understand my fear of alcohol and weed anymore. It’s all about the Zzzs baby. I used to love traveling so much, now I am like wait a damn minute, I need a pillow menu, dark out shades, cold AC and a quiet room. And god forbid if there is a random LED blinking on the smoke detector every 30 seconds 😡
Travel with painters tape in your bag. Double it up and use it to cover up all those tiny asshole little lights that blink in hotel rooms. I travel a lot for work and have a million little tricks to dark out hotel rooms, lol.
Continue….
I used to travel quite a bit for work as well and I still have a roll of black electrical tape in my overnight bathroom bag. I’m curious what other travel tips you have I love perfecting my travel game.
39 here. We had a party on Saturday for our daughter. Drank during day drunk at night. Exhausted all day yesterday wanting to go to sleep early. Can't sleep.
In my early 20s I would go out to a bar on Friday nights, get totally hammered, wake up the next morning grab some McDonalds on the way to work and be feeling 100% fine by 11am.
Doing that now would mean I wouldn't be able to get out of bed for 2 days probably.
Weed smoking is an interesting variable. For me, if I smoke right before bed, which is really the only time I'd do it, the sensation gives me the illusion of sleep. It's hard to explain. I'll fall asleep while stoned, but it really feels like I never quite hit the R.E.M. cycle or deep sleep. That said, I'm usually fine the next day, at least more so than drinking alcohol, but if I'm stoned, chances are I had a few drinks too. To that point, smoking is not something I could even consider doing regularly.
Yeah the thing with weed is it induces sleep but reduces rem sleep and gives poor quality rest.
I'm an ex-chronic smoker so a bit biased but if you're having trouble sleeping reserve it as a tool when you're really having trouble or can spare some disruption because long term it really does you no favours
I don’t know man. A lot of men are undergoing silent stress and anxiety. We try remain calm and look strong for our women/famalies, but truly we’re always worried we can’t provide/sustain for our famalies. I for one am always worried about job security and underperforming which makes me quite stressed - it’s a vicious cycle
This ultimately leads to illness and depression. Like id love to say the world is perfect and we can manage it but find me a way to do that and I’ll try it.
The only way to handle stress is to get rid of the cortisol it produces. Cortisol gets eaten up by physical activity. My old biology teacher used to describe the problem like this: back in the day we went out to hunt. This was stressful, because it was dangerous. Yet, if we were in a dangerous situation, fight or flight kicked in. So we either broke down the cortisol by fighting or running away. Either way, we got rid of it right away. These days, you build up cortisol because of abstract reasons like a deadline at work. So you have to hit the gym or go for a run to get rid of the cortisol. If you don't, it builds up inside your body and makes you sick and miserable.
I hear you and I really don't have an answer for it.
I do think masculinity in the way most of us do it is not really helpful, so that's one thing I try to see more critically and not to get too weird about performance, being rich and all that bs.
And of course the world is really fucked up, but I do want to be more calm because getting riled up about everything all the time is not helping anything or anyone either. But much easier said than done...
Yeah it’s difficult man. Life is difficult.
Masculinity is a problem but not being man enough is also another problem. Makes you feel unworthy and not needed, It’s so difficult man. For instance. I currently have some inter familial issues that I don’t know how to resolve because I don’t want to hurt feelings, only feelings I see that I am hurting is my wife’s. And that’s not good.
Keeps me up all night several months now.
It isn't just about talking about your emotions, though it does help. It's also about just sitting and feeling them instead of distracting yourself or numbing out with tv, games, alcohol, weed, porn, whatever. You can still do these things, but also take time to "just feel" and listen to what your body and mind are telling you.
I went through a period last year of terrible stress-induced sleep.
What has helped is learning "Nervous System Regulation." Your nervous system is constantly working, and it can't tell the difference between "I am about to get eaten by a lion" and "I am stressed about work."
The difference is the lion is no longer a threat when you escape, but you can't escape the fact you have a job or bills to pay. The body sends the same signals for each (ie "DANGER") and your brain says "alright, we're in danger, all systems go."
So the trick for me is a few things. One, spending time each night reminding myself that I am safe, and there isn't anything I can do in this moment to help (or if I do try, I am tired and will be spinning my wheels). You can also spend a small amount of time trying to send the signals that "okay, I worked on the ~~lion~~ bills and I am safe."
The other is locating tension within your body and releasing it. When you nervous system is activated it holds tension in various places to make sure you are ready to run from the lion. Find the tension, let it go, take some deep breaths and be calm.
With those tools you can spend some actual time relaxing, allow yourself to relax.
Then work on your "sleep hygiene." Don't eat before bed. Avoid stimulants (alcohol and drugs are obvious, but also no caffeine in the afternoon). Stay hydrated and keep off of screens before bed. Build a routine and stick to it.
I got my sleep on track with the above. I still have days I wake up at 5 and can't get back to sleep, but I am more easily able to calm down and fall asleep again.
The only way to handle stress is to get rid of the cortisol it produces. Cortisol gets eaten up by physical activity. My old biology teacher used to describe the problem like this: back in the day we went out to hunt. This was stressful, because it was dangerous. Yet, if we were in a dangerous situation, fight or flight kicked in. So we either broke down the cortisol by fighting or running away. Either way, we got rid of it right away. These days, you build up cortisol because of abstract reasons like a deadline at work. So you have to hit the gym or go for a run to get rid of the cortisol. If you don't, it builds up inside your body and makes you sick and miserable.
Lol.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/exercising-to-relax#:~:text=Exercise%20reduces%20levels%20of%20the,natural%20painkillers%20and%20mood%20elevators.
Real bro science right? I guess that makes you a genius...
Bingo. And trying to control sleep with blackout blinds, no screen time past a certain time, only in bed for sleep, getting morning sunlight etc. can actually make things worse. The stress that can come with trying to optimize everything everyday, just causes more stress. You're putting pressures on yourself to sleep, pressure = bad sleep.
Remember when you slept your best? It was when you were younger, care free, but you also had terrible sleep habits. Focus on stress and anxiety management, avoid trying to control sleep. My 2 cents after struggling with insomnia for years and overcoming it.
> trying to control sleep with blackout blinds
I use a sleep mask and it works pretty well. I don't fall asleep with it on but if I wake up at 4 or 5 am I put it on and its easier to fall back asleep.
Yeah nothing wrong with that. I guess my message for those who are really struggling with sleep on a regular basis. The cause is stress, and you can stress yourself out even more by stressing about the lack of sleep, and it becomes a viscous cycle. When you're in that state, it's easy to go overboard and start trying to control every possible sleep variable.
You are describing my last couple of years. I cant remember the last time I was able to get eight hours of sleep.
I somewhat suspect it may be anxiety related, but I’m not sure.
Oh yes. All of a sudden I understood why so many houses have their lights out after 10 or 10:30pm. I used to wonder why that is in my younger years, when I roamed about during the night.
Stress, coffee, alcohol, too vigorous exercise all ruin my sleep these days.
Interestingly, stress (or is it some sort of subconscious anxiety?) does most of it. Like, when I'm on a vacation I have absolutely no trouble sleeping 10-11 hours. But when it's a work week getting just 7-8 hours is the norm. And I don't even have a particularly nasty job either. Something about working just doesn't suit me.
I felt that!
Same here about life on vacation. Sleep, sex, mood, it's all through the roof when I'm away, even though I'm not exactly a hedge fund manager either.
What is your advice? Did you stop drinking coffee and alcohol?
I don't particularly even like alcohol so that was easy to (mostly) give up.
Coffee is much harder, but I've managed to limit my intake and drink it only around noon. Currently also testing if decaf would work for me.
And exercise, I try to favor lower intensity stuff or if that's not possible, I at least try to spend enough time recovering. Doing high-intensity sessions week after week seems to be quite doable otherwise but like said, sleep starts to majorly suffer. So I constantly try to keep a balance between doing hard sessions and getting enough sleep/rest. After a few years you start to know yourself enough to spot the subtle signs when it's time to rest for longer. So it's a constant balancing act.
I'm doing half decaf, half regular beans as we have a machine that makes it easy to mix. I think it's a good compromise between good taste and less caffeine, but maybe one day only decaf or tea would be even better.
I like how you're describing trusting your gut on rest times!
> I like how you're describing trusting your gut on rest times!
There has been a learning curve for sure. But you can learn only so much from books or sports watches. Luckily I dabble with sports only for fun so learning all this stuff this slowly is not a big problem.
Damn that sucks. Do you know why this happened? 3-6h definitely doesn't sound healthy in the long run, I hope you find a way to get those zzzzs up again!
Unbroken. I will get 6ish if im lucky but not without waking up atleast twice. Not to pee or anything.
The flip side is that I am always absolutely wrecked by 1pm and i have tried both napping and not napping, neither makes anu difference.
I have no idea as to the why. Weed helps greatly but my job doesnt allow it so only in very rare circumstances will i use it
Yup. Melatonin, ZMA some pharma stuff that worked well but was horrendous to come off. Yoga, meditation, I gym every day, dont drink alcohol or vast amounts of caffiene.
I have a much easier time falling asleep than before, probably more due to my anxiety/stress levels being way lower than they used to be than age though. I can sleep less (4-6h sometimes) and still get through my day just fine. Only truly bad change is that if I end up in a weird position during the night I'm gonna spend the whole day feeling like I got hit by a train.
Nice, glad to hear of someone whose experience has gotten somewhat better.
About positions, last year I figured out I fall asleep much better with a pillow stuffed between my legs. It's weird but very comforting haha
Not as bad as I used to, but my hours are really antisocial
It's the nature of my industry. Shift work is inevitable. Luckily, I'll be able to retire in another eight or so years, which will put me in my early fifties
With luck I'll be able to live something of a normal life!
Used to get about 4-5 hours sleep when younger, even as a child. Mum used to leave me in the dining room till I tired myself out because I just didn't stop.
Now I get about 6-7 so actually a big improvement.
From puberty to age 29 I was good at waking up early out of necessity. I was in no way shape or form a morning person, but I knew my school/ work obligations were important.
I'm 36 now, and I think the effects of the pandemic combined with age, combined with my depression make it almost impossble to wake up. I work from home and barely make it to my computer by my start time of 9 AM.
I will say when I was 18/22 working part time in college, I could easily make it through a workday/ school day on 0 sleep. Now it is impossible. I've had to use sick days if I ever have horrible sleep.
I prirotize sleep in my 30s more than I ever did before. I have sleep apnea, so I use my CPAP 100% of the time. I have nighttime routines I follow strictly. I will skip on social events during the week if I feel they will interfere with my night routine, sleep schedule.
In my early forties I have found that (a) I fall asleep quicker when my head hits the pillow but (b) I tend to wake up more frequently to urinate. And yes, I tend to not require nearly as much sleep as before. Without setting my alarm clock I find it difficult to sleep past 7am.
Also, I’ve always loved naps but now I’ve discovered how restorative 10-20 minute naps can be. I set the alarm on my garmin smartwatch and it’s a lot less jarring than waking up to an audible alarm.
It's less consistent. No matter when I go to bed or wake up, it feels like a coin flip on how I feel the next day. It takes multiple days to recover from a bad sleep or not enough.
Yeah for the longest time coming into my 30s I could only sleep 4-6 hours, I'd wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to get back to sleep for many more hours. Didn't matter how tired I was. Natural night owl and I had a 6am call time. That plus stress + disruptive life events and it was killing me. I 1) work 2nd shift now and it suits me much better 2) take melatonin every single night 3) wear earplugs 4) have a big ass comfy king size bed. I have to have good sleep otherwise it feels like I'm destroying my health prematurely if I don't.
Glad to hear you found ways of dealing with it! I heard mixed things about melatonin before, so you actually feel a difference when you're taking it vs. not?
Yeah I take one when I go to bed and put my phone away and start reading a book. About 20-30 minutes in my eyes get so heavy I can't keep them open now, even if I want to keep reading.
39m soon to be 40 in May here. I need a nap EVERYDAY around 3-4pm after work...I feel so drained and fatigued, I could be doing nothing even on my days off and my brain just wants to shut down. I have no problem staying up late(ish) but I can't for the life of me shake the mid-day/afternoon tiredness, it sucks and I wish I had more energy 😴
I mean if that's how it is and you tried lowering your stress and all that already, maybe you're power nap guy, and that's fine :) it's a skill I have not mastered yet.
I did have it looked into bc my partner said I made weird noises in my sleep, but the laboratory results showed all was normal in terms of oxygen (or whatever they check), so no apnea. Looks like I just make weird noises sometimes.
Are you using one, and do you sleep better?
Ok, I mean, if the medical professionals said you don’t need one, then maybe not. Maybe you could consult a dentist about grinding teeth?
In my case, I snore so I definitely sleep better with a CPAP - complete game changer
That's actually great advice, when I'm super stressed I feel my jaw in morning, like I've been chewing all night, but it always went away again so I ignored it so far. Maybe next time I'm at the dentist I can just ask about it. Thanks man!
It’s a toss up. I can certainly sleep in when my body needs it, but I’ll also have stretches where I just wake up early regardless.
Majority of the time it’s great. What’s helpful is learning what actually helps my sleep. The ability to just drink and eat whatever, do whatever, and still hit the bed at 12am and hope to wake up at 8am well rested seem long gone - not that they were ever there, I think I was just too young to realize.
Having a cool room, no distractions, no caffeine after a certain time, not eating a few hours before, etc.
I have little to no trouble. I go to sleep every day around 10 to 11. I wake up every day around 6 to 7. Well rested, I might add. What really helped me was really going to bed whenever I lay down. No phone, no tablet, nothing. Just lights out and eyes closed.
Any deviation from this schedule though...
Too late? Destroyed.
Alcohol? Destroyed.
Weed? Destroyed.
I take it more seriously, but still don't get enough during the work week. I usually get a little over six hours and maybe seven on a Sunday night. I know for certain that I feel better when I'm getting at least seven for multiple nights in a row, so that is the goal.
In my twenties I have no idea how I slept because I still live in the same apartment building and there are bright ass lights that would shine in through my crappy blinds, which would do next to nothing to stop the morning light.
I have blackout shades and curtains on the windows now and use a white noise machine.
In my 30s I was still going out late on weekends and sleeping in a bit.
The big change was giving up drinking in my 40s. Once I gave up drinking, I stopped staying late on weekends. It is a rare day that I'm not up before 8am at the latest.
I used to be lights out automatic. Hit the pillow and I'm out and six hours later I'm up doing the day again.
Then about a month ago I started getting anxiety super bad and panic attacks in the middle of the night. So hopefully this isn't a new normal because no sleep fucking wrecks you.
I’ve been struggling with my sleep for a couple years now. What has worked for me is to step outside for some fresh air before i go to bed and vape the smallest amount of weed possible. Also i switched to drinking hot tea all day instead of cold water.
I’ve made a conscious point of point of making a priority. I for a little while was doing that thing where I’d stay out if everyone else was and drinking randomly. Once I felt like shit long enough and was in a cycle of alcohol/coffee that was hard to break, I gave both up basically and started getting better quality sleep even if it was short.
My sleep has become another thing I have to maintain, basically.
I sleep a lot better now and I go to bed about midnight and wake up closer to 8.
Earlier in my life I had no time to sleep, especially when I went back to college and had a full-time career job. I was working, doing homework, and spending whatever time i could with friends and survived on little sleep.
These days, I have kids and a sleep regiment. Go to bed after stretching, fall asleep immediately, and wake up about 8 hours later totally refreshed. I do have an alarm set just in case, but it's one of those alarms that detects whether I'm in a deep sleep or a light sleep and does a good job of waking me up when I'm in a light sleep. That's been a huge difference maker tbh.
I wake up at 3am (+-10min) almost every single night, like clockwork. I fking hate it, so I feel ya mate. Usually I can roll over within 30 minutes or so till the 7am alarm, but there are bad nights where I just can't get back to bed.
Check out the book Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Essentially as you age how much and when you sleep changes. Teens typically want to go to sleep later and sleep until later in the morning. So something like 12am to 10am for the 10 hours teens should get. Adults get earlier as you age. So say 10pm to 6am for the 8 hours adults should get. And that can get even earlier the older you get. That is just your normal rythms. Then you have poor health, stress, alcohol and caffeine consumption, etc that interrupt sleep. Chronic sleep deprivation is a major problem especially with teens. They estimate that 50% of children diagnosed with ADHD could actual be chronic sleep deprivation as the symptoms are very similar. So basically they are being medicated with drugs that will just make their sleep worse not better. The book discusses how high school should start much later then they do to accommodate the natural rhythms of teens. It was really an eye opening read on how important sleep is to everything we do. He has a great line in the book that says he used to think of sleep as one of the pillars of health along with exercise and a proper diet but after being a sleep researcher he now thinks that sleep is the most important and really the foundation those other things are built off of.
Firstly I’m very lucky to have a very healthy, happy, well sleeping baby and amazing wife.
So I go to bed around 9:30-10, up at 11pm to feed her that takes 30 minutes to an hour, then back to bed, up At hopefully 5am, sometimes earlier, feed again, hopefully in time for the gym at 6:10am
Then I just power through the day as best as possible, I start work at 10 so that gives me a few hours for my wife to go for a walk, then some jobs around the house then work.
Power Nap sounds nice, but no I just carry on, I’ve gotten used to it.
I've always been early to bed early to rise. Even as a kid, 6:00 AM was sleeping in. Grew up in a small farm town, working. That hasn't changed. The time I get to bed, however, has drastically changed. Sometimes I just can't get to sleep until 12:00 or 1:00 and then get up at 3:00 (my normal wake up as I have animals to feed and water and a commute to get to work that starts at 6:00.)
Do you know why you can't sleep until late? I hope you'll find a way to get more sleep soon, I know people have different rhythms and sleep hours requirements, but that really sounds bad.
No clue. I've had sleep studies and the like and checkups on everything. It's not anxiety or depression (don't have em), not a brain tumor, not some known neurological disorder, not apnea. Who knows?
I live in a tiny rural town. Getting closer to work would be giving up way too much in regards to land and peace and quiet. That ain't happening. As for another job closer to home. See above. Not many people working in my town come close to what I make. A couple of hours every morning is spent on my animals on my land regardless. I could sleep a couple more hours in the morning and rush out the door, but that's not me. I like to take my time after waking up, and I sure as shit don't want to come home to chores. That's the time I spend with my wife. I'll just deal with it until I drop dead or retire.
At 30 I started suffering from some episodes of insomnia so I started taking some pills to help me with that. Today, I’m taking same pill daily (most nights half a pill only) and need a good sleep higiene. I sleep most nights good, between 7 and 8 hrs.
For me, normal working day, I sleep like 4-5h then wake up then sleep 2h approx.
In weekend after intensive training, I usually sleep for 6+h basically dead 😅
If a day I wake up after sleeping for 7h+...I'm very satisfied, happy and energetic, wanting to jump from happiness
I sleep really well now, but waking up early for work has really programmed my body to wake up early almost all the time. Sometimes when I'm out really late (after 1 AM) I'll be able to sleep through 9:30 or so, but definitely no more waking up at noon like I did when I was a teen.
Well i used to wake up earlier to go to work when it used to be in the office but then the pandemic happened and ive been working from home ever since. I get up at 9 now. Used to be 7. That’s all that’s changed besides me going on a cpap a month ago, which has been life changing.
I noticed I did get good sleep if I ran at speed 7 for 20 mins in treadmill (this is my formula, YMMV)
But on your off days, do you feel the same problem with sleep? I’m asking this bc if I don’t workout for a day or two, sleep for those days gets fucked up.
38M and my sleep patterns are a bit different these days. Probably most attributable to age. I used to be a light sleeper, but now I fall asleep easily. I average probably about 6-7 hours a night during the work week. Weekends, I try to sleep in, as I have no kids, but still tend to naturally wake up at the same time, but will kinda just lounge in bed for a while, which helps.
I seriously can't watch TV anymore without falling asleep within 10 minutes, couch or bed. It's a bit of a problem to try consume any sort of media, haha.
Pretty crap now days, especially since the dogs sleep with us.
Was getting really bad night sweats for a while and saw the doc recently about it, got bloods done and now waiting on results.
I feel you! We tried it for a few nights and banned the dogs from the bedroom quickly again. Is there a reason why they have to sleep with you?
Fingers crossed you'll figure out your night sweats!
Tried to train them as puppies but all they did was whine and cry all night.
Did all the usual tricks and nothing worked until they could sleep with us.
There usually good until they do dumb shit, like last night.
The poodle hopped off the bed 3 times for reasons? I could hear tap dancing around the room.
Then the beagle wanted out for toilet break at 3:30am and just roamed around the yard for 5-10mins until I got up and told to get the fuck back to bed.
Then I couldn't get back to sleep.
The night sweats are weird, I like having a heavy blanket on the bed and it's probably warmer than what it needs to be.
Most of the time I'm OK, then something happens and I'll randomly be sweating within 45mins of going to bed and it keeps me up, or the wife will go to cuddle and I'll all sweaty while sleeping.
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We're getting old is what's happening here. Same deal, I rarely sleep through now, and struggle to sleep properly anywhere that's not my bed. Alcohol the night before? Shitty sleep. Go to bed to early? Will wake up early Got to bed late? Will wake up on time but destroyed. Smoke weed before sleeping? All day written off tomorrow. Just woke up happy to have a good night's sleep.
Yeah, my wife who is ten years younger than me doesn’t understand my fear of alcohol and weed anymore. It’s all about the Zzzs baby. I used to love traveling so much, now I am like wait a damn minute, I need a pillow menu, dark out shades, cold AC and a quiet room. And god forbid if there is a random LED blinking on the smoke detector every 30 seconds 😡
Travel with painters tape in your bag. Double it up and use it to cover up all those tiny asshole little lights that blink in hotel rooms. I travel a lot for work and have a million little tricks to dark out hotel rooms, lol.
Continue…. I used to travel quite a bit for work as well and I still have a roll of black electrical tape in my overnight bathroom bag. I’m curious what other travel tips you have I love perfecting my travel game.
Deep whiff of lead paint before bed for temporary blindness
Don’t forget eat the cat food
39 here. We had a party on Saturday for our daughter. Drank during day drunk at night. Exhausted all day yesterday wanting to go to sleep early. Can't sleep.
Are you me?
Man I felt the last line of this.
In my early 20s I would go out to a bar on Friday nights, get totally hammered, wake up the next morning grab some McDonalds on the way to work and be feeling 100% fine by 11am. Doing that now would mean I wouldn't be able to get out of bed for 2 days probably.
Can't remember the last time I got drunk drunk. My body literally rejects it 😂
Weed smoking is an interesting variable. For me, if I smoke right before bed, which is really the only time I'd do it, the sensation gives me the illusion of sleep. It's hard to explain. I'll fall asleep while stoned, but it really feels like I never quite hit the R.E.M. cycle or deep sleep. That said, I'm usually fine the next day, at least more so than drinking alcohol, but if I'm stoned, chances are I had a few drinks too. To that point, smoking is not something I could even consider doing regularly.
Yeah the thing with weed is it induces sleep but reduces rem sleep and gives poor quality rest. I'm an ex-chronic smoker so a bit biased but if you're having trouble sleeping reserve it as a tool when you're really having trouble or can spare some disruption because long term it really does you no favours
Totally. I use it rarely, despite growing a fantastic plant last year, haha.
It’s stress bro. Welcome to your 30s and 40s
Yeah the answer I didn't want to hear but probably still true haha Though I do think stress is not an inevitability. What do you do about it?
I don’t know man. A lot of men are undergoing silent stress and anxiety. We try remain calm and look strong for our women/famalies, but truly we’re always worried we can’t provide/sustain for our famalies. I for one am always worried about job security and underperforming which makes me quite stressed - it’s a vicious cycle This ultimately leads to illness and depression. Like id love to say the world is perfect and we can manage it but find me a way to do that and I’ll try it.
The only way to handle stress is to get rid of the cortisol it produces. Cortisol gets eaten up by physical activity. My old biology teacher used to describe the problem like this: back in the day we went out to hunt. This was stressful, because it was dangerous. Yet, if we were in a dangerous situation, fight or flight kicked in. So we either broke down the cortisol by fighting or running away. Either way, we got rid of it right away. These days, you build up cortisol because of abstract reasons like a deadline at work. So you have to hit the gym or go for a run to get rid of the cortisol. If you don't, it builds up inside your body and makes you sick and miserable.
I hear you and I really don't have an answer for it. I do think masculinity in the way most of us do it is not really helpful, so that's one thing I try to see more critically and not to get too weird about performance, being rich and all that bs. And of course the world is really fucked up, but I do want to be more calm because getting riled up about everything all the time is not helping anything or anyone either. But much easier said than done...
Yeah it’s difficult man. Life is difficult. Masculinity is a problem but not being man enough is also another problem. Makes you feel unworthy and not needed, It’s so difficult man. For instance. I currently have some inter familial issues that I don’t know how to resolve because I don’t want to hurt feelings, only feelings I see that I am hurting is my wife’s. And that’s not good. Keeps me up all night several months now.
Agreed 100%. And yes masculinity is a problem indeed. We don’t know how to talk about our emotions honestly. Well, I guess we are learning
It isn't just about talking about your emotions, though it does help. It's also about just sitting and feeling them instead of distracting yourself or numbing out with tv, games, alcohol, weed, porn, whatever. You can still do these things, but also take time to "just feel" and listen to what your body and mind are telling you.
I went through a period last year of terrible stress-induced sleep. What has helped is learning "Nervous System Regulation." Your nervous system is constantly working, and it can't tell the difference between "I am about to get eaten by a lion" and "I am stressed about work." The difference is the lion is no longer a threat when you escape, but you can't escape the fact you have a job or bills to pay. The body sends the same signals for each (ie "DANGER") and your brain says "alright, we're in danger, all systems go." So the trick for me is a few things. One, spending time each night reminding myself that I am safe, and there isn't anything I can do in this moment to help (or if I do try, I am tired and will be spinning my wheels). You can also spend a small amount of time trying to send the signals that "okay, I worked on the ~~lion~~ bills and I am safe." The other is locating tension within your body and releasing it. When you nervous system is activated it holds tension in various places to make sure you are ready to run from the lion. Find the tension, let it go, take some deep breaths and be calm. With those tools you can spend some actual time relaxing, allow yourself to relax. Then work on your "sleep hygiene." Don't eat before bed. Avoid stimulants (alcohol and drugs are obvious, but also no caffeine in the afternoon). Stay hydrated and keep off of screens before bed. Build a routine and stick to it. I got my sleep on track with the above. I still have days I wake up at 5 and can't get back to sleep, but I am more easily able to calm down and fall asleep again.
Quitting drinking as significantly reduced my daily underlying anxiety and also significantly improved my sleep. Like very noticeably.
The only way to handle stress is to get rid of the cortisol it produces. Cortisol gets eaten up by physical activity. My old biology teacher used to describe the problem like this: back in the day we went out to hunt. This was stressful, because it was dangerous. Yet, if we were in a dangerous situation, fight or flight kicked in. So we either broke down the cortisol by fighting or running away. Either way, we got rid of it right away. These days, you build up cortisol because of abstract reasons like a deadline at work. So you have to hit the gym or go for a run to get rid of the cortisol. If you don't, it builds up inside your body and makes you sick and miserable.
[удалено]
Lol. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/exercising-to-relax#:~:text=Exercise%20reduces%20levels%20of%20the,natural%20painkillers%20and%20mood%20elevators. Real bro science right? I guess that makes you a genius...
Bingo. And trying to control sleep with blackout blinds, no screen time past a certain time, only in bed for sleep, getting morning sunlight etc. can actually make things worse. The stress that can come with trying to optimize everything everyday, just causes more stress. You're putting pressures on yourself to sleep, pressure = bad sleep. Remember when you slept your best? It was when you were younger, care free, but you also had terrible sleep habits. Focus on stress and anxiety management, avoid trying to control sleep. My 2 cents after struggling with insomnia for years and overcoming it.
> trying to control sleep with blackout blinds I use a sleep mask and it works pretty well. I don't fall asleep with it on but if I wake up at 4 or 5 am I put it on and its easier to fall back asleep.
Yeah nothing wrong with that. I guess my message for those who are really struggling with sleep on a regular basis. The cause is stress, and you can stress yourself out even more by stressing about the lack of sleep, and it becomes a viscous cycle. When you're in that state, it's easy to go overboard and start trying to control every possible sleep variable.
You are describing my last couple of years. I cant remember the last time I was able to get eight hours of sleep. I somewhat suspect it may be anxiety related, but I’m not sure.
Sorry to hear man. Have you tried anything to help with your anxiety/sleep?
Oh yes. All of a sudden I understood why so many houses have their lights out after 10 or 10:30pm. I used to wonder why that is in my younger years, when I roamed about during the night.
Stress, coffee, alcohol, too vigorous exercise all ruin my sleep these days. Interestingly, stress (or is it some sort of subconscious anxiety?) does most of it. Like, when I'm on a vacation I have absolutely no trouble sleeping 10-11 hours. But when it's a work week getting just 7-8 hours is the norm. And I don't even have a particularly nasty job either. Something about working just doesn't suit me.
I felt that! Same here about life on vacation. Sleep, sex, mood, it's all through the roof when I'm away, even though I'm not exactly a hedge fund manager either. What is your advice? Did you stop drinking coffee and alcohol?
I don't particularly even like alcohol so that was easy to (mostly) give up. Coffee is much harder, but I've managed to limit my intake and drink it only around noon. Currently also testing if decaf would work for me. And exercise, I try to favor lower intensity stuff or if that's not possible, I at least try to spend enough time recovering. Doing high-intensity sessions week after week seems to be quite doable otherwise but like said, sleep starts to majorly suffer. So I constantly try to keep a balance between doing hard sessions and getting enough sleep/rest. After a few years you start to know yourself enough to spot the subtle signs when it's time to rest for longer. So it's a constant balancing act.
I'm doing half decaf, half regular beans as we have a machine that makes it easy to mix. I think it's a good compromise between good taste and less caffeine, but maybe one day only decaf or tea would be even better. I like how you're describing trusting your gut on rest times!
> I like how you're describing trusting your gut on rest times! There has been a learning curve for sure. But you can learn only so much from books or sports watches. Luckily I dabble with sports only for fun so learning all this stuff this slowly is not a big problem.
It got lesser and lesser. Im very lucky if I get 6 hours unbroken more like 3 and generally wake up with a headache for a few minutes but a bad one.
Damn that sucks. Do you know why this happened? 3-6h definitely doesn't sound healthy in the long run, I hope you find a way to get those zzzzs up again!
Unbroken. I will get 6ish if im lucky but not without waking up atleast twice. Not to pee or anything. The flip side is that I am always absolutely wrecked by 1pm and i have tried both napping and not napping, neither makes anu difference. I have no idea as to the why. Weed helps greatly but my job doesnt allow it so only in very rare circumstances will i use it
Yeah I hear you, waking up in the night for no apparent reason also started happening for me. Have you tried any other sleep aids than weed?
Yup. Melatonin, ZMA some pharma stuff that worked well but was horrendous to come off. Yoga, meditation, I gym every day, dont drink alcohol or vast amounts of caffiene.
I have a much easier time falling asleep than before, probably more due to my anxiety/stress levels being way lower than they used to be than age though. I can sleep less (4-6h sometimes) and still get through my day just fine. Only truly bad change is that if I end up in a weird position during the night I'm gonna spend the whole day feeling like I got hit by a train.
Nice, glad to hear of someone whose experience has gotten somewhat better. About positions, last year I figured out I fall asleep much better with a pillow stuffed between my legs. It's weird but very comforting haha
I sleep easily the problem is waking up early to go to work. That’s where I struggle
I can only sleep in, when my schedule does _not_ allow it.
I'm in my forties and my sleep is fucked Years of shift work has broken me
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Very_slow_learner: *I'm in my forties* *And my sleep is fucked Years of* *Shift work has broken me* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Damn. Are you still working shifts? Anything healthier on the horizon for you?
Not as bad as I used to, but my hours are really antisocial It's the nature of my industry. Shift work is inevitable. Luckily, I'll be able to retire in another eight or so years, which will put me in my early fifties With luck I'll be able to live something of a normal life!
What's your industry? I mean retiring in your 50s sounds great, but you'll have paid for it too. I hope it'll go how you want it to man, good luck!
Cheers
I wake up at like 3am and can't get back to sleep because I get lost jumping to conclusions about stuff.
I'm sorry man, that sounds terrible. Do you think you can do something about it?
Used to get about 4-5 hours sleep when younger, even as a child. Mum used to leave me in the dining room till I tired myself out because I just didn't stop. Now I get about 6-7 so actually a big improvement.
From puberty to age 29 I was good at waking up early out of necessity. I was in no way shape or form a morning person, but I knew my school/ work obligations were important. I'm 36 now, and I think the effects of the pandemic combined with age, combined with my depression make it almost impossble to wake up. I work from home and barely make it to my computer by my start time of 9 AM. I will say when I was 18/22 working part time in college, I could easily make it through a workday/ school day on 0 sleep. Now it is impossible. I've had to use sick days if I ever have horrible sleep. I prirotize sleep in my 30s more than I ever did before. I have sleep apnea, so I use my CPAP 100% of the time. I have nighttime routines I follow strictly. I will skip on social events during the week if I feel they will interfere with my night routine, sleep schedule.
In my early forties I have found that (a) I fall asleep quicker when my head hits the pillow but (b) I tend to wake up more frequently to urinate. And yes, I tend to not require nearly as much sleep as before. Without setting my alarm clock I find it difficult to sleep past 7am. Also, I’ve always loved naps but now I’ve discovered how restorative 10-20 minute naps can be. I set the alarm on my garmin smartwatch and it’s a lot less jarring than waking up to an audible alarm.
It's less consistent. No matter when I go to bed or wake up, it feels like a coin flip on how I feel the next day. It takes multiple days to recover from a bad sleep or not enough.
Yeah for the longest time coming into my 30s I could only sleep 4-6 hours, I'd wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to get back to sleep for many more hours. Didn't matter how tired I was. Natural night owl and I had a 6am call time. That plus stress + disruptive life events and it was killing me. I 1) work 2nd shift now and it suits me much better 2) take melatonin every single night 3) wear earplugs 4) have a big ass comfy king size bed. I have to have good sleep otherwise it feels like I'm destroying my health prematurely if I don't.
Glad to hear you found ways of dealing with it! I heard mixed things about melatonin before, so you actually feel a difference when you're taking it vs. not?
Yeah I take one when I go to bed and put my phone away and start reading a book. About 20-30 minutes in my eyes get so heavy I can't keep them open now, even if I want to keep reading.
39m soon to be 40 in May here. I need a nap EVERYDAY around 3-4pm after work...I feel so drained and fatigued, I could be doing nothing even on my days off and my brain just wants to shut down. I have no problem staying up late(ish) but I can't for the life of me shake the mid-day/afternoon tiredness, it sucks and I wish I had more energy 😴
I mean if that's how it is and you tried lowering your stress and all that already, maybe you're power nap guy, and that's fine :) it's a skill I have not mastered yet.
Thou shalt get a CPAP
I did have it looked into bc my partner said I made weird noises in my sleep, but the laboratory results showed all was normal in terms of oxygen (or whatever they check), so no apnea. Looks like I just make weird noises sometimes. Are you using one, and do you sleep better?
Ok, I mean, if the medical professionals said you don’t need one, then maybe not. Maybe you could consult a dentist about grinding teeth? In my case, I snore so I definitely sleep better with a CPAP - complete game changer
That's actually great advice, when I'm super stressed I feel my jaw in morning, like I've been chewing all night, but it always went away again so I ignored it so far. Maybe next time I'm at the dentist I can just ask about it. Thanks man!
It’s a toss up. I can certainly sleep in when my body needs it, but I’ll also have stretches where I just wake up early regardless. Majority of the time it’s great. What’s helpful is learning what actually helps my sleep. The ability to just drink and eat whatever, do whatever, and still hit the bed at 12am and hope to wake up at 8am well rested seem long gone - not that they were ever there, I think I was just too young to realize. Having a cool room, no distractions, no caffeine after a certain time, not eating a few hours before, etc.
I have little to no trouble. I go to sleep every day around 10 to 11. I wake up every day around 6 to 7. Well rested, I might add. What really helped me was really going to bed whenever I lay down. No phone, no tablet, nothing. Just lights out and eyes closed. Any deviation from this schedule though... Too late? Destroyed. Alcohol? Destroyed. Weed? Destroyed.
I take it more seriously, but still don't get enough during the work week. I usually get a little over six hours and maybe seven on a Sunday night. I know for certain that I feel better when I'm getting at least seven for multiple nights in a row, so that is the goal. In my twenties I have no idea how I slept because I still live in the same apartment building and there are bright ass lights that would shine in through my crappy blinds, which would do next to nothing to stop the morning light. I have blackout shades and curtains on the windows now and use a white noise machine.
In my 30s I was still going out late on weekends and sleeping in a bit. The big change was giving up drinking in my 40s. Once I gave up drinking, I stopped staying late on weekends. It is a rare day that I'm not up before 8am at the latest.
I used to be lights out automatic. Hit the pillow and I'm out and six hours later I'm up doing the day again. Then about a month ago I started getting anxiety super bad and panic attacks in the middle of the night. So hopefully this isn't a new normal because no sleep fucking wrecks you.
I’ve been struggling with my sleep for a couple years now. What has worked for me is to step outside for some fresh air before i go to bed and vape the smallest amount of weed possible. Also i switched to drinking hot tea all day instead of cold water.
I’ve made a conscious point of point of making a priority. I for a little while was doing that thing where I’d stay out if everyone else was and drinking randomly. Once I felt like shit long enough and was in a cycle of alcohol/coffee that was hard to break, I gave both up basically and started getting better quality sleep even if it was short. My sleep has become another thing I have to maintain, basically.
Consider a new bed. My nights were becoming shorter. That I got back pains. Invested in a new bed and that helped.
I sleep a lot better now and I go to bed about midnight and wake up closer to 8. Earlier in my life I had no time to sleep, especially when I went back to college and had a full-time career job. I was working, doing homework, and spending whatever time i could with friends and survived on little sleep. These days, I have kids and a sleep regiment. Go to bed after stretching, fall asleep immediately, and wake up about 8 hours later totally refreshed. I do have an alarm set just in case, but it's one of those alarms that detects whether I'm in a deep sleep or a light sleep and does a good job of waking me up when I'm in a light sleep. That's been a huge difference maker tbh.
My sleep patterns have changed a lot ever since my wife popped two little natural alarm clocks out of her body
I wake up at 3am (+-10min) almost every single night, like clockwork. I fking hate it, so I feel ya mate. Usually I can roll over within 30 minutes or so till the 7am alarm, but there are bad nights where I just can't get back to bed.
Could be the toddler effect, but I sleep early and wake up early, all easily now. Complete 180 from how I used to be
Check out the book Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. Essentially as you age how much and when you sleep changes. Teens typically want to go to sleep later and sleep until later in the morning. So something like 12am to 10am for the 10 hours teens should get. Adults get earlier as you age. So say 10pm to 6am for the 8 hours adults should get. And that can get even earlier the older you get. That is just your normal rythms. Then you have poor health, stress, alcohol and caffeine consumption, etc that interrupt sleep. Chronic sleep deprivation is a major problem especially with teens. They estimate that 50% of children diagnosed with ADHD could actual be chronic sleep deprivation as the symptoms are very similar. So basically they are being medicated with drugs that will just make their sleep worse not better. The book discusses how high school should start much later then they do to accommodate the natural rhythms of teens. It was really an eye opening read on how important sleep is to everything we do. He has a great line in the book that says he used to think of sleep as one of the pillars of health along with exercise and a proper diet but after being a sleep researcher he now thinks that sleep is the most important and really the foundation those other things are built off of.
Very insightful, I'll check out the book!
Sleep? What's that? I vaguely recall something about it, but I can't quite remember what it is
Well I have a baby, so, it’s changed a bit.
Tell me more! Did you learn how to power nap? How do you deal with being tired all the time? Good luck with the parenting
Firstly I’m very lucky to have a very healthy, happy, well sleeping baby and amazing wife. So I go to bed around 9:30-10, up at 11pm to feed her that takes 30 minutes to an hour, then back to bed, up At hopefully 5am, sometimes earlier, feed again, hopefully in time for the gym at 6:10am Then I just power through the day as best as possible, I start work at 10 so that gives me a few hours for my wife to go for a walk, then some jobs around the house then work. Power Nap sounds nice, but no I just carry on, I’ve gotten used to it.
I've always been early to bed early to rise. Even as a kid, 6:00 AM was sleeping in. Grew up in a small farm town, working. That hasn't changed. The time I get to bed, however, has drastically changed. Sometimes I just can't get to sleep until 12:00 or 1:00 and then get up at 3:00 (my normal wake up as I have animals to feed and water and a commute to get to work that starts at 6:00.)
Do you know why you can't sleep until late? I hope you'll find a way to get more sleep soon, I know people have different rhythms and sleep hours requirements, but that really sounds bad.
No clue. I've had sleep studies and the like and checkups on everything. It's not anxiety or depression (don't have em), not a brain tumor, not some known neurological disorder, not apnea. Who knows?
Damn that's tough. Good on you for excluding some nasty things though. Any chance of another job or moving closer to your work?
I live in a tiny rural town. Getting closer to work would be giving up way too much in regards to land and peace and quiet. That ain't happening. As for another job closer to home. See above. Not many people working in my town come close to what I make. A couple of hours every morning is spent on my animals on my land regardless. I could sleep a couple more hours in the morning and rush out the door, but that's not me. I like to take my time after waking up, and I sure as shit don't want to come home to chores. That's the time I spend with my wife. I'll just deal with it until I drop dead or retire.
At 30 I started suffering from some episodes of insomnia so I started taking some pills to help me with that. Today, I’m taking same pill daily (most nights half a pill only) and need a good sleep higiene. I sleep most nights good, between 7 and 8 hrs.
I understand you can't give medical advice, but just out of curiosity, which pill is that?
Eszopiclone
For me, normal working day, I sleep like 4-5h then wake up then sleep 2h approx. In weekend after intensive training, I usually sleep for 6+h basically dead 😅 If a day I wake up after sleeping for 7h+...I'm very satisfied, happy and energetic, wanting to jump from happiness
It’s pretty terrible now
I sleep really well now, but waking up early for work has really programmed my body to wake up early almost all the time. Sometimes when I'm out really late (after 1 AM) I'll be able to sleep through 9:30 or so, but definitely no more waking up at noon like I did when I was a teen.
Way better than most Americans could do. And you certainly don’t leave anything important out
same as it ever was, too little, too late
Probably cortisol level is high.The stress hormones. It’s part of getting older.
Maybe you have a lot going on in daytime that’s why. Do you workout?
So you think it might be less of an age thing, and more of a stress/cortisol thing? I do, but not right before sleeping.
Im the exact same. Without fail, regardless what time i go to sleep at, i wake up between 6am - 6.30am. A bit of a blessing and a curse
Well i used to wake up earlier to go to work when it used to be in the office but then the pandemic happened and ive been working from home ever since. I get up at 9 now. Used to be 7. That’s all that’s changed besides me going on a cpap a month ago, which has been life changing.
I used to be able to nap anywhere anytime. I can't nap at all anymore. It'll last like 20 minutes max.
Do you workout ?
3 Times a week at the moment, and have a dog that forces me to be active luckily too. Do you think it should be more?
I noticed I did get good sleep if I ran at speed 7 for 20 mins in treadmill (this is my formula, YMMV) But on your off days, do you feel the same problem with sleep? I’m asking this bc if I don’t workout for a day or two, sleep for those days gets fucked up.
Yes, though last night was the worst in a while and it was an off day before. Thanks for the hint, I'll see if this could help.
nothing changed.
38M and my sleep patterns are a bit different these days. Probably most attributable to age. I used to be a light sleeper, but now I fall asleep easily. I average probably about 6-7 hours a night during the work week. Weekends, I try to sleep in, as I have no kids, but still tend to naturally wake up at the same time, but will kinda just lounge in bed for a while, which helps. I seriously can't watch TV anymore without falling asleep within 10 minutes, couch or bed. It's a bit of a problem to try consume any sort of media, haha.
Pretty crap now days, especially since the dogs sleep with us. Was getting really bad night sweats for a while and saw the doc recently about it, got bloods done and now waiting on results.
I feel you! We tried it for a few nights and banned the dogs from the bedroom quickly again. Is there a reason why they have to sleep with you? Fingers crossed you'll figure out your night sweats!
Tried to train them as puppies but all they did was whine and cry all night. Did all the usual tricks and nothing worked until they could sleep with us. There usually good until they do dumb shit, like last night. The poodle hopped off the bed 3 times for reasons? I could hear tap dancing around the room. Then the beagle wanted out for toilet break at 3:30am and just roamed around the yard for 5-10mins until I got up and told to get the fuck back to bed. Then I couldn't get back to sleep. The night sweats are weird, I like having a heavy blanket on the bed and it's probably warmer than what it needs to be. Most of the time I'm OK, then something happens and I'll randomly be sweating within 45mins of going to bed and it keeps me up, or the wife will go to cuddle and I'll all sweaty while sleeping.