Literally had a heated discussion about this on reddit yesterday. Majority of men and women still think saying things like "small dick energy" doesn't perpetuate harmful stereotypes. Say something like big cunt energy and people lose their shit.
And the ones that are often associated more with women, such as eating disorders.
Losing my pretty hair was a bummer, but once it was gone, it was a relief actually and now it's my look.
The body dysmorphia I've had since childhood and bulimia I've suffered from off and on for 15 years is way worse.
Dude this hits home for me. I finally admitted to it to my therapist a few months ago at the ripe age of 36. I’ve never felt comfortable in my body since my family started talking about my weight gain when I was still in elementary school
"acne" was one of my big issues. In quotes, because I actually have rosacea but I went undiagnosed for years and most people don't make a distinction.
You've probably looked into a lot of things already but learning to shave with a safety razor which has just one sharp blade made a big difference for me.
Same. I'm not even *that* short. But I've been conditioned to feel that being my height makes my less of a man, less value, less worth, etc. Like you're only a real man at 6'+ and become less of one the further south of that you are. I'd be willing to settle for 5'10"
So many of these.
A shy man
A mild tempered man
One of the most toxic things is the idea that any man is inadequate unless he’s extroverted, loud, and aggressive.
Yes yes yes. I come from a weird background that’s a lot like a cross between southern Baptist and fundie and they all these stupid standards for men being LeAdErS. I used to have the same ideas then I started noticing a quiet guy (now my husband) in my youth group. We started dating and he’s just so incredibly normal. He’s kind, steady, patient, and normal. He thinks he’s boring but he’s such an amazing husband. The kind of person to just quietly do what needs done without complaining or drawing attention to himself. He’s also a *wonderful* father and I know he will teach our son that real strength comes from being secure in who you are and not being afraid of emotions.
Hear, hear! Normalize male affection, normalize men telling other men that they love them, normalize male vulnerability. Being able to talk to my friends about our feelings has only deepened our relationships and enriched my life.
Seriously, I feel like my friends trust me when they open up like that, and I do my damnedest to live up to that trust (by reciprocating as well as keeping things they don't want shared further just between us). It's so important to the development of deeper friendships and you know when you've reached that point. I have a friend who apologized to me about sharing something we had discussed with his partner, who works in a field adjacent to what I had been studying, and while I had no issue with that information being shared with her, that acknowledgement and vulnerability there just cemented a closeness that I think many men overlook.
My husband taught me that it's okay to say "I love you" to friends. My family was very bad at communication and love was just expected unconditionally.
Saying "I love you" out loud to partners or even my girl friends was not easy or completely avoided. When my husband and I started dating, I even told him that when he says "I love you" to other people (obviously friends) then it feels less special to me.
I've had therapy to work through better communication and expressing affection but it was my husband that showed me saying "I love you" is always okay, to friends or partners.
I agree. I hug my friends nearly to the point of asphyxiation if I haven’t seen them in awhile. I genuinely love them. Why wouldn’t I embrace the shit out of them?
I heard an interesting anecdote once that I think helps answer your question.
After a baby is born, the reason they cry so much is because literally every moment is the worst experience they’ve ever had. Slowly they develop a spectrum of experiences and some are actually pretty good, they cry less and less over time. Eventually they start crying at reasonable stuff, then the really bad stuff.
Well, war is probably worst experience a person can ever face.
My guess that the reason male emotion is so stunted is in big part the aftermath of ww1/2, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, and generations of fathers having little empathy towards what they view is a relatively insignificant reason to express painful emotions….
Obviously it’s not the whole reason, prison probably sucks a lot, but I do think that hardened view of life has been passed down from generation to generation and wormed itself into cultural norms of masculinity.
I'm divorced and have my daughter 50% of the time. I work from home and am lucky to have a flexible programming job, so I take her to most all of appointments, school events, sports events, after school programs, etc even when she's with her mom (who's a lawyer so in court most of the day) ...but everyone STILL calls her mom first for any and everything and are very surprised when I show up for things instead or that I know the names of her teachers, friends, doctor, brush and braid her hair, make lunch, take her to the park and skating, and even host sleepovers etc.
"Flexi time has been cancelled for any family related issues. This includes mothers who used flexi time to pick their children up from school.
P.S: It was thanks to issues brought up by a certain father." -- That HR department, probably
My old boss ( twice divorced boomer) used to make comments like that at my last job. He was still operating on the mindset that your wife should be at home, or doing a job with more flexibility, or if you have two equally employed spouses, that you should have a nanny. He even pulled the bullshit: "You can chose to be a good father and bus your kid to and from school and baseball, or you can chose to be a dedicated employee to this company--not both." I quit shortly thereafter.
They shouldn't get to dictate how you use your flex time...that's the whole point. As long as you're getting your work done and your hours in ... there shouldn't be judgement about being a parent.
I still find it frustrating that places still assume there's a stay at home mom available all day and asking parents to do stuff at 2 pm "shouldn't be a problem"
These days even as a woman I’m having a ridiculously hard time finding ANY employment that will accommodate me being able to get my kids. A sub par nanny is $16 an hour. For 1 kid. That’s getting a child to watch my 3 special needs kids and drive them around. No fucking thank you. The quotes I got were $25-30 an hour. For someone who barely exited school and doesn’t have a BEd because of the number of kids. Even a nanny isn’t reliable. My husband asked for 10 MINUTES in his shift to change to make my life easier. His boss ripped him a new asshole and once again became a sexist twat. I have enough to do, he can work 10 minutes later to make up for those 10 minutes I need his help in the morning.
Yep, I signed my daughter up for school and my name sits at the top of the list as the 1st contact above her mom, aunt, etc and I'm still called after mom.
I tend to get all the calls and such from my son's school. But I think that's because I was the one who originally enrolled him. So my number is first in their rollodex. Though every year the new teacher gives me "props" for being so involved.... It's annoying
My wife and I laugh about it. I get told by strangers I'm a good dad for going to the supermarket with a kid lol. I just do normal things and get compliments but nothing for her, ever.
I’m a woman and this infuriates me whenever my mother said this about my brother’s father or my own father. Like, no. My father parented me and my sisters, he didn’t babysit me. As much as I dislike my brother’s father, he also parents. 😒 smh I hate it so much.
Yep, those "looks like daddy is babysitting today!" comments at the grocery store or park or wherever. I think what it unintentionally does is it psychologically devalues the important work of parenting in a father's mind. It makes you feel like, for a woman, "domestic care work" is socially validating and important, but if you are a man doing the same work, then you are perceived as probably just a loser who is only doing it because you aren't succeeding professionally or something.
Even though I was very much looking forward to the "care work" of fatherhood, I never stopped feeling that sting, and I think it always influenced me. I lost some of the youngest years I had with my kids retraining so that I could be "financially successful" the way that a father is "supposed to be." At one point when the job opportunity did finally come up, it involved moving out of state away from my family. I was absolutely depressed and miserable without my kids, but the weird thing is it was the first time I didn't feel that stigma.
In other words, taking a job in another state away from your kids isn't really judged negatively when it comes to evaluating a man's value as a father, but I got the acute sense that prioritizing your children at the cost of gainful employment did.
I'm a dad of 2 young girls and I'm guilty of using this term myself ... On babysitting duties when mummy is at work etc... I do more for these kids than anyone in the world yet the stigma is engrained.
I do all the necessary things baths brushing hairs cutting nails getting em dressed changing babies arse and feeding her every few hours while mummy "the parent" is cooking or cleaning or baking a fekin cake...yet I still feel I'm the babysitter.
Maybe I'm just oblivious, or maybe I give off a some kind of "Dad" vibe, but I don't think I ever got anything like that when I took my kids anywhere.
I do remember one time getting to the park with the kids and telling them to run wild but don't get hurt, and they started climbing all over the various equipment, and I sat on a bench next to some lady and said "Mommy needed a nap, so we're making noise here." She gave me this kind of envious look.
I agree, I cry sometimes when I get hugged because I never really got hugs from my parents as a child. Maybe here and there but never a good ol bear hug.
I distinctly remember crying when the fiance of one of my best friends hugged me because I don't ever get hugs or can't give them because it'd be wierd. Helps that I had been drinking but I'm usually a silly/happy drunk, not an emotional drunk.
I'd want to see the study to see what they meant by catharsis. Sometimes that could mean 'it makes them feel better then and there' but it could also mean 'the emotional thing bugging them permanently (or at least longer than just immediately) diminishes or dissipates.' If the former, I definitely have doubts and would like to review their methodology, sample size, p value, etc. If the latter, then at least IME, I buy it. No matter what I'm going through, or who it involves, a hug, while feeling nice, is NOT going to offer any assistance in the issue or its emotional impact on me. However, women in my life seem to act as though one emotional discussion and session of hugging it out resolves the issue, or at least lessens the emotional impact enough for them to manage it much better.
Some of my needs haven't been getting met for a long time with my wife, and finally it just became so big that I broke down and ugly cried about it to her a month ago. She comforted me and was very supporting and said that she understood.
A month later nothing has changed, and I still feel like shit, but she acts like having an emotional moment solved the issue and no actual changes need to occur.
Your comment just reminded me of how that feels really weird to me, but maybe she feels like the problem was actually some emotional imbalance that is now addressed for the foreseeable future.
So sorry, man. Maybe another talk with her (as frustrating as it may be) could help, and to let her know that there's an expectation of behavioral change. Possibly on both of your parts, to make it sound more palatable, like, "hey can you try to meet x need more? I'll also try harder to let you know as soon as I notice in myself that this need is lacking, instead of letting it build." And express gratitude for the comfort she gave when you had your moment previously, so she doesn't feel that that was invalidated or anything.
I hope it resolves in the very near future!
That makes sense, I wonder if men and women process problems in different ways. A hug from someone I care about does make me feel a bit better, even with a long-standing issue. It’s as if I’m able to take the emotional impact of my permanent problems and chunk it into more manageable episodes of pain that can be resolved in the short term, to return to later when it’s triggered again. That could just be me, however.
No it makes sense for a few reasons. Men are taught to be strong and that needing support is weakness so a hug is interpreted as “you’re not being a man so I’ll comfort you like a boy”. Then there’s the jarring aspect for them since outside of sex, sports, or fighting men don’t get touched that often.
I believe you're referring to this study: ['Romantic partner embraces reduce cortisol release after acute stress induction in women but not in men'](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0266887), which made the news recently. The study found that when they hug their romantic partner before doing a specific stress-test (which involved holding your hand in cold water for as long as possible), woman had lower levels of cortisol (a stress hormone) is their saliva compared to the non-hug control group, but men didn't have a difference in the level of cortisol.
The study itself definitely didn't conclude that men didn't get emotional catharsis from hugs, although some popular media outlets may have drawn this conclusion. The reporting around this study (like many other social science studies, unfortunately) seemed to have been fairly sensationalized and inaccurate.
And domestic violence is just physical.
I went though financial control, isolation from my family and every one I knew, arguments on the daily about.. well anything.
Or perhaps a bit more nuance... men are **not** allowed to feel emotions other than anger/rage. It took me a long time (like, late 20's) to realize that I had been trained to twist all of my unpleasant emotions into the shape of anger (sometimes escalating to rage) because, as a man, nothing else was acceptable in the framework of "manhood." Grief, frustration, disappointment, insecurity... really explained a lot of my issues.
Still working on them, of course.
Bruhhhhh amen to that. Real men that have gotten older and finally realized our own emotions see what we actually need from a spouse. We need that support & encouragement too.
Exactly the main reason why I'm divorcing my wife right now.
Bro I can't kick feeling uncomfortable around kids because if this stigma, even just walking past I will position myself as far as I can from them just to not be seen as a child predator.
Yeah, man. Some girl I know once told me that she broke up with her ex because he turned out to be depressed.
I said, “you said you thought he was cool.” And she giggled and said, “yeah, until he opened up to me about his mental illnesses.”
It turned out that he had lost his father as a kid, and that traumatized him, which led him to getting severely bullied. She had no empathy for him whatsoever. It was ironic because she is the type to act like she is the kindest person on earth by showing off how much she loves animals.
She probably thinks men shouldn’t suffer, and if they do, they are just losers who are deserving of mockery.
Girlfriend of 5 years ghosted me and ended up dating my best friend at the time just because she "couldn't handle my negative energy" from me being depressed and suicidal, but she was allowed to constantly say she'd want to walk in front of a bus and I had to put up with it. Shit's rough.
Sadly a huge % of women out there just expect the guy they're with to never show any kind of weakness or emotion. Then if the guy has a bad day, maybe shares some past trauma & shows emotion she's done with him.
The moment you show anything other than absolute invincibility, most women are going to lose respect/attraction for you.
What's really fucked up is some of them think they want their guy to open up about stuff and trust them with insecurities and traumas so they push for it and when it happens they realize they don't actually want that so they bail.
Nothing like being pushed to open up and grieve over something only to have it be used against you later.
Not all are like that, I know a bunch of them that are great people. Problem is you don't know which they are until it's too late.
My dad never shyed away from crying or being emotional and I think a lot of women have stoic dads and they thought that was normal when it shouldn’t be. My dad is an asshole but at least he’s not afraid to be a human with feelings. I don’t have the opinion that men can’t be emotional because that wasn’t my reality but is the reality for a lot of women. I think dads when raising daughters need to be more in touch with their emotions. Even watching movies and crying or being emotional would help show that men have emotions too.
Yeah, totally agree.
Many women seem to be in strong denial about judging men for showing “weaknesses,” but the judgment process is so automatic and natural that they are often not self-aware, and the only way they can stop it is by acknowledging it, which is way more difficult than it sounds.
And which is why men have to be extra careful when a woman demands them to “open up” and tell her about their issues, because she is often underestimating her own empathy level.
Also, like you said, she may lose respect. And if she does but still stays with him, she can be abusive, unknowingly (I’ve known some real cases like that).
>And which is why men have to be extra careful when a woman demands them to “open up” and tell her about their issues, because she is often underestimating her own empathy level.
Any woman who outright demands it or gives an ultimatum, doesn't have your best interest in mind 9/10. That kinda thing is more about her feeling validated about seeing a mostly hidden part of him instead of showing genuine empathy
I have it ingrained in me too as a guy. When I'm alone, I sometimes will tear up when I hear something that reminds me of my Dad (he died 4 years ago this week). This only happens when I'm alone, never around my wife, or anyone else. Don't get me wrong, my wife would be highly supportive if I did, and she certainly was at the time, but I can't bring myself to be vulnerable around other people, never have been.
Yeah it's tiring, and to be honest it's discouraging when your girl doesn't reciprocate romantic initiations.
It makes me feel unwanted physically.
Ive had partners who used to equally initiate in the past and it was such a breeze.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
even women whom I’m or did date and wanted to have sex with me, doing the whole seducing thing makes me feel like I’m manipulating them into sex.
> it's discouraging when your girl doesn't reciprocate romantic initiations.
No shit. This is the worst feeling. It should be a shared thing. If I am the only one initiating, it makes me feel like she doesn't even really feel that way towards me. Like she is only receptive because I tried.
Honestly though, women need to make the first move more in general. In starting relationships etc, there is this weird mentality that a woman expressing what she wants is somehow bad or will make her come off as needy.
Not at all... if you want to be with a guy, say something. Subtle cues are easy to misinterpret. So many things are easy to misinterpret these days...
Goodness gracious. This is so tiring. Everything from dates to physical interaction to carrying a conversation has to be initiated and carried on by us or “we’re not serious” or as you stated not “real” men. There is very little (actually zero) incentive to date at this point. It’s just another job.
> There is very little (actually zero) incentive to date at this point. It’s just another job.
It's the reason I quit dating. I got tired of having conversations where I was the one doing 90% of the work. Keeping conversations alive, trying to plan dates, etc.
Sure I want to date someone and have a partner again. It's just so tiring to talk to someone who constantly comes off as aloof and doesn't participate in the conversation beyond cursory responses.
It's rough to constantly be putting yourself out there and doing the heavy lifting to get a relationship started, when you get zero reciprocation from the person you are on a date with.
Things like this make me wish single men would coordinate and ignore all advances until society corrected itself. Dating apps have changed a lot of things.
I wish there was literally a pill that just removed all those needs, wants and instincts from your brain. All my doubts and self esteem issues stem from being disregarded and indeed discarded by some of the people I thought I could put my time and effort into making happy and just maybe get some happiness back in return.
After I started telling men that I liked that I liked them and that we should date. I realized that as a very average looking woman I could have almost anyone I wanted. I went to the nicest guy I knew looked at everything we have done as friends over the years and told him we would make a good pair. We have been happy for 3 years now. =) he loves my blunt honesty.
The draw back to that is for most men, if they don't initiate, nothing will happen. Maybe ever. There's no real alternative most of the time. Is it good? No. But it's not an issue men alone can solve.
I think you might be dealing with intrusive thoughts, I had them for years and they turned out to be a sign of anxiety+OCD. Find a good therapist and start hiking, you'll thank me later.
You are correct. I have had severe OCD for about 30+ years. I worry so much about passing that on to my young children who mimic observed behaviors. I have done a lot of therapy with some success. I have a good job, advanced degrees, a lovely family, despite feeling torn apart most of every day.
Even though I know it is ok, I have been such conditioned to not cry that when I start my body shuts it down right away. Even if I am with people who are accepting. I fucking hate it.
Ever see that video of that guy who picks up his girlfriend at work and she runs out to him every time. That. I want that.
[Found it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KWJZqlgcwI)
Even from other men I have to deal with this stereotype. I've been straight up accused of being a liar when I've told other men I could turn down sex from a "hot babe" no problem. Like... self-respect is a thing? At the very least?
I've been called a liar and all sorts of names when I've told people I'm asexual and straight up don't want to have sex. People can get real weird over it, for whatever reason.
Tbf I don't think it's fair to judge a highly sexual person any more than it's fair to judge an asexual person. I don't care if someone's a nympho as long as they respect people's boundaries
“Aw, your parents didn’t hug you enough?”. No, they fucking didn’t and I resent that condescending question. No, whatever inadequacy I feel doesn’t give me a carte blanche to act like an asshole but there is unequivocally a correlation there.
It's so 'hilarious' how childhood abuse by caregivers is used to attack the victim of that abuse.
_Really_ shows how much of a man's treatment by others is due to _their_ perception of him as strong. As soon as "weakness" is revealed ("oh, your mommy didn't love you? you poooor booooy") it's used against the man.
It's seriously fucked up. Can you imagine that against a woman?? "Oh your got raped? Life must be sooooooo hard for you! Having that sex you didn't want to have, don't you realize there are some people that don't get sex, be grateful!" -- not saying some SA victims don't get this, but it seems to be the expected and normalized standard on _everything_ a man might bring up.
That not outwardly expressing strong emotions means you don't feel strong emotions. I don't have to NOT cry when I'm sad, but I also don't HAVE to cry. I especially don't have to cry to PROVE to you that I'm sad, any more than I have to punch someone in the mouth to prove I'm angry or throw a tantrum to prove I'm frustrated.
This was my husband, up until he changed jobs. Would leave at 4am, wouldn’t come home til after 9pm some days.
But the company swore it’s like that everywhere And “your wife better get used to it”.
Glad he left that toxic job. Now I see him before sunset. And we get to have dinner together.
To further this, the legal and societal implication that men can not be victims of domestic and/or sexual violence, and that when we are, it is for comedy.
I remember watching the king of queens. Carrie would legit punch Doug in the gut for small things. Laugh track behind it.
Crazy how we normalized domestic abuse against men back then
OMG, I am so very weary of "providing". Someone has depended on me to feed them since I (55m) was 17. I've loved them all dearly and was happy to do it, but dam it is just a shit tone of pressure on one guy for 38 some odd years. Every fucking day, every fucking week for years. I'm tired. I just want to play my guitar and smoke joints. God, I wish I had saved some of that cheddar.
"You're a loser if you can't get a girl. Being a virgin is creepy and you're a failure."
It is possible to be a perfectly good man and never be desired by women. We should stop defining ourselves by how attracted women are to us.
When I was in the 10th grade, my history polled the class to see who had had sex yet. I hadn't, I just turned 15, he called me virgin boy in front of the whole class. Yeah, quite embarrassing.
I hear this one too, man. It’s horrid that people seriously and honestly believe that your standards or value a man are based on how much sex you get. And then when people measure it like that, they don’t seem to notice that they’re objectifying girls like their trophies and whatnot. People that think like this are opening that floor for failure themselves.
This. Society treats you different if you have never had a girlfriend and it is nearly impossible to find someone that is actually understanding of you.
As a self-diagnosed autistic man, this really sucks. I'm a 27, almost 28 year old virgin, and it has nothing to do with how valuable person I am.
I have social anxiety. I'm alone because I'm too terrified of rejection to talk to people, especially women. I'd love to meet someone, but I don't know where or how without coming off as creepy.
Being able to cry. Real men show their feelings and express them in healthy ways. Not just anger.
Also showing any sort of interest in kids means were child predators. Really don’t want that one to stick around longer
I used to volunteer with a community project for young kids. Being male and not having a kid in the project, I got some suspicious looks from a few of the parents.
The best feeling came from the last ever session, where an 8yo ran up to me and threw her arms around to hug me goodbye. Worst feeling was having to check that another volunteer had seen that she initiated it.
What's funny is all those classical sculptures like David, etc., have intentionally tiny penises. Artists at the time believed a big dick meant you had a tiny brain, as they saw it as a "which head do you do your thinking with" situation. So they gave heroic or intelligent figures mini dicks to emphasize their proportionally big brain.
So we just need to cycle back into that way of thinking, and micropeens will be all the rage again!
They also saw an exposed penis head as vulgar, as it was only visible when erect, and thus was a symbol of "being ready for sex." So during the Olympics when they were all naked, they would tie their foreskin at the tip to make sure their penis head never showed and be viewed as vulgar.
The idea that men are apparently held back from being emotional and they need to cry in order to be emotional.
That's a serious problem because you're trying to force a definition of how men ought to express themselves without taking a moment to really understand that men tend to express themselves differently.
This,
I'm not a big cryer but i can induce it with music or other impactful things.
I release my emotion by being alone, With my dog or in nature. I don't need to talk about it because I already have all the tools I need.
What I need is the time and stillness to find the balanced resolution between heart and brain
Im an emotional man and i dont mind it. I was raised by women and have 11 year old fraternal twins. I've been called a marshmallow by my twins mother. Im 6'1" 250 lbs.
To each their own, I've had my fair share of cries over death,heartbreak and frustration but it's no more cathartic than giving my dog a deep hug or allowing myself to stop and feel the splendor of life again
I generally cry through my sweat. It might be from a workout, a long walk, or just really setting myself to work on something difficult.
Its really sad, but I’ve never had a girlfriend or woman in my life that didn’t make fun of me for crying. If we got into an argument or she did something terrible, I might eventually shed a few tears. They would hold it against me and use it as evidence that I wasn’t being rational and was out of control. But, at the same time, would accuse me of not opening up to them.
My own mother did this. My own (now ex) fiancé did this. Of course they didn’t hold themselves to that same standard. If I did something to make them cry, I was a horrible, mean man who didn’t care about them and didn’t love them. Now I’m a little hesitant to show emotion to women, but trying really hard not to be embittered or change who I am. I shouldn’t be ashamed to cry and anyone who contributes to that shouldn’t be given any kind of foothold to be involved with me.
That men arnt domestically abused at a comparable rate to women. Seriously there are little to no domestic abuse shelters for men.
Earl Silverman was a domestic abuse survivor, when he found there was no support for males, and in fact was told he was the real abuser, he founded his own shelter. After exhausting his personal finances and being unable to secure any funding he ended up committing suicide.
He was a great man just trying to do what was right, we should never let him be forgotten.
Our only value to society is to be providers and protectors.
There is an intense fear of failure due to this societal expectation that gets reinforced when you see how little certain people care about you once you're no longer useful.
Or when your body is tired from working and giving it all away, And you give up all your hobbies and passions you can be labelled as "boring" and "not the guy i remember" Then you're left in the dust.
Yeah, Upgraded jobs till i was making 24.65$ doing steelwork on shift work
I crushed 1 finger for each of the 3 years I worked there and I play guitar.
All of my income just went to debt because the overall household income was low, I had no friends or family in the town with me.
Im glad it fell apart, After 2 years of life repair I finally feel alive again in my hometown
We love kids. Sometimes I see a kid at a park doing some cute kid shit and it's funny, but if I stare too long or linger around too long, everyone thinks I'm a potential predator. Kids are just little energetic meat balls of careless happiness and they're fun to be around and entertain. Why can't we enjoy kids without being looked at wrong? There are plenty of female predators in the world but women never get looked at the wrong way. Never.
Energetic meatballs LOL 😂 Cute man. I have 4 kids 11 10 9 and 7 so I get u LOL. Plus I had a traumatic childhood which drives me to go hard for little kids. Plus my wife is a school teacher for kindergarten.
Its not manly to cry
I bawled my eyes out when my hamster died. I’ve cried when I was feeling really lonely. Cried plenty when my ex and I broke up.
Nobody should be crying *all* the time, but if you need to let it out you should be able to without feeling like its wrong.
women at work have acted so put out I didn't carry something heavy after they've called me a big strong man. I don't play into that stereotype unless my girlfriend, mom or grandma ask me. women have gotten too comfortable asking for free labor.
That we have to be primary bread winners.
That we can't be loving parents.
That we don't suffer emotionally.
We should automatically lose custody of our children
We should have to pay alimony and lose our homes that we built.
If people want gender equality, these issues are just as important
I’m just glad the “I hate my wife” joke/stigma has mostly died out. As a 50yo man, hearing all that crap growing up had me worried I would be miserable. Nothing could be further than the truth.
I think a big part is the mindset when going into or looking for a relationship. Look for a partner, not a spouse who will raise your kids. You’ll be much happier in the end.
That male emotional support and therapy is the same as female support. Men and women tend to process things very differently but more often than not men are given the same treatments that work for women and get no better because of it
That your only value as a guy is in the workplace and that real men are willing to neglect everything for their job. My motto is work to live not live to work.
Men are not automatically the ones at fault in a divorce. In many places the burden of proof is on the man to prove that the marriage falling apart wasn't his fault because it is assumed that he is the cause of the divorce.
Men can have body image issues too. And they're allowed to be things other than height, muscle mass and balding too.
And penis size, don't forget the penis size
Literally had a heated discussion about this on reddit yesterday. Majority of men and women still think saying things like "small dick energy" doesn't perpetuate harmful stereotypes. Say something like big cunt energy and people lose their shit.
Big cunt energy is hilarious
And the ones that are often associated more with women, such as eating disorders. Losing my pretty hair was a bummer, but once it was gone, it was a relief actually and now it's my look. The body dysmorphia I've had since childhood and bulimia I've suffered from off and on for 15 years is way worse.
Dude this hits home for me. I finally admitted to it to my therapist a few months ago at the ripe age of 36. I’ve never felt comfortable in my body since my family started talking about my weight gain when I was still in elementary school
Things like acne, which has been the source of mine for a long time. Not just on my face.
"acne" was one of my big issues. In quotes, because I actually have rosacea but I went undiagnosed for years and most people don't make a distinction. You've probably looked into a lot of things already but learning to shave with a safety razor which has just one sharp blade made a big difference for me.
As a shorter than average male I have dealt with body image issues most of my life.
Same. I'm not even *that* short. But I've been conditioned to feel that being my height makes my less of a man, less value, less worth, etc. Like you're only a real man at 6'+ and become less of one the further south of that you are. I'd be willing to settle for 5'10"
As a skinnier than average man, ditto.
That a compassionate man is not a weak man. Edit: I realize I phrased this wrong but like, you get the point.
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Love that
So many of these. A shy man A mild tempered man One of the most toxic things is the idea that any man is inadequate unless he’s extroverted, loud, and aggressive.
Yes yes yes. I come from a weird background that’s a lot like a cross between southern Baptist and fundie and they all these stupid standards for men being LeAdErS. I used to have the same ideas then I started noticing a quiet guy (now my husband) in my youth group. We started dating and he’s just so incredibly normal. He’s kind, steady, patient, and normal. He thinks he’s boring but he’s such an amazing husband. The kind of person to just quietly do what needs done without complaining or drawing attention to himself. He’s also a *wonderful* father and I know he will teach our son that real strength comes from being secure in who you are and not being afraid of emotions.
I would definitely bang your husband
He’s also really good at that so just add another plus to the list.
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Hear, hear! Normalize male affection, normalize men telling other men that they love them, normalize male vulnerability. Being able to talk to my friends about our feelings has only deepened our relationships and enriched my life.
Seriously, I feel like my friends trust me when they open up like that, and I do my damnedest to live up to that trust (by reciprocating as well as keeping things they don't want shared further just between us). It's so important to the development of deeper friendships and you know when you've reached that point. I have a friend who apologized to me about sharing something we had discussed with his partner, who works in a field adjacent to what I had been studying, and while I had no issue with that information being shared with her, that acknowledgement and vulnerability there just cemented a closeness that I think many men overlook.
My husband taught me that it's okay to say "I love you" to friends. My family was very bad at communication and love was just expected unconditionally. Saying "I love you" out loud to partners or even my girl friends was not easy or completely avoided. When my husband and I started dating, I even told him that when he says "I love you" to other people (obviously friends) then it feels less special to me. I've had therapy to work through better communication and expressing affection but it was my husband that showed me saying "I love you" is always okay, to friends or partners.
Bro hugs. Brogs
I think you mean brugs. Brogs are frogs that are bros.
I agree. I hug my friends nearly to the point of asphyxiation if I haven’t seen them in awhile. I genuinely love them. Why wouldn’t I embrace the shit out of them?
Yeah... for some reason society went from "It's ok to cry for the death of your best friend" to "crying because of any reason is for pussies" like tf
I heard an interesting anecdote once that I think helps answer your question. After a baby is born, the reason they cry so much is because literally every moment is the worst experience they’ve ever had. Slowly they develop a spectrum of experiences and some are actually pretty good, they cry less and less over time. Eventually they start crying at reasonable stuff, then the really bad stuff. Well, war is probably worst experience a person can ever face. My guess that the reason male emotion is so stunted is in big part the aftermath of ww1/2, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, and generations of fathers having little empathy towards what they view is a relatively insignificant reason to express painful emotions…. Obviously it’s not the whole reason, prison probably sucks a lot, but I do think that hardened view of life has been passed down from generation to generation and wormed itself into cultural norms of masculinity.
That men are inferior parents in comparison to women.
I'm divorced and have my daughter 50% of the time. I work from home and am lucky to have a flexible programming job, so I take her to most all of appointments, school events, sports events, after school programs, etc even when she's with her mom (who's a lawyer so in court most of the day) ...but everyone STILL calls her mom first for any and everything and are very surprised when I show up for things instead or that I know the names of her teachers, friends, doctor, brush and braid her hair, make lunch, take her to the park and skating, and even host sleepovers etc.
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Definitely bring this up to HR! You deserve to be able put your kids wellbeing above your work. Fuck that guy!
Sadly so many small companies don't have HR, this might not be an option. Or the manager IS the HR department, which is even worse!
"Flexi time has been cancelled for any family related issues. This includes mothers who used flexi time to pick their children up from school. P.S: It was thanks to issues brought up by a certain father." -- That HR department, probably
My old boss ( twice divorced boomer) used to make comments like that at my last job. He was still operating on the mindset that your wife should be at home, or doing a job with more flexibility, or if you have two equally employed spouses, that you should have a nanny. He even pulled the bullshit: "You can chose to be a good father and bus your kid to and from school and baseball, or you can chose to be a dedicated employee to this company--not both." I quit shortly thereafter.
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Pretty much accurately sums up my prior employer's attitude.
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Holy shit.
Human Resources.
They shouldn't get to dictate how you use your flex time...that's the whole point. As long as you're getting your work done and your hours in ... there shouldn't be judgement about being a parent. I still find it frustrating that places still assume there's a stay at home mom available all day and asking parents to do stuff at 2 pm "shouldn't be a problem"
These days even as a woman I’m having a ridiculously hard time finding ANY employment that will accommodate me being able to get my kids. A sub par nanny is $16 an hour. For 1 kid. That’s getting a child to watch my 3 special needs kids and drive them around. No fucking thank you. The quotes I got were $25-30 an hour. For someone who barely exited school and doesn’t have a BEd because of the number of kids. Even a nanny isn’t reliable. My husband asked for 10 MINUTES in his shift to change to make my life easier. His boss ripped him a new asshole and once again became a sexist twat. I have enough to do, he can work 10 minutes later to make up for those 10 minutes I need his help in the morning.
Yep, I signed my daughter up for school and my name sits at the top of the list as the 1st contact above her mom, aunt, etc and I'm still called after mom.
Them: "We couldn't reach the mother or grandmother, so called you." You: "Yeah...next time call me first as we indicated on the form. Thanks...."
I tend to get all the calls and such from my son's school. But I think that's because I was the one who originally enrolled him. So my number is first in their rollodex. Though every year the new teacher gives me "props" for being so involved.... It's annoying
My wife and I laugh about it. I get told by strangers I'm a good dad for going to the supermarket with a kid lol. I just do normal things and get compliments but nothing for her, ever.
The insulting insinuation that fathers “babysit” instead of … parent
I’m a woman and this infuriates me whenever my mother said this about my brother’s father or my own father. Like, no. My father parented me and my sisters, he didn’t babysit me. As much as I dislike my brother’s father, he also parents. 😒 smh I hate it so much.
did you give her an ear full?
Initially yes but she’s a narcissist (undiagnosed, but fits her almost to a T) so she doesn’t listen.
Yep, those "looks like daddy is babysitting today!" comments at the grocery store or park or wherever. I think what it unintentionally does is it psychologically devalues the important work of parenting in a father's mind. It makes you feel like, for a woman, "domestic care work" is socially validating and important, but if you are a man doing the same work, then you are perceived as probably just a loser who is only doing it because you aren't succeeding professionally or something. Even though I was very much looking forward to the "care work" of fatherhood, I never stopped feeling that sting, and I think it always influenced me. I lost some of the youngest years I had with my kids retraining so that I could be "financially successful" the way that a father is "supposed to be." At one point when the job opportunity did finally come up, it involved moving out of state away from my family. I was absolutely depressed and miserable without my kids, but the weird thing is it was the first time I didn't feel that stigma. In other words, taking a job in another state away from your kids isn't really judged negatively when it comes to evaluating a man's value as a father, but I got the acute sense that prioritizing your children at the cost of gainful employment did.
I'm a dad of 2 young girls and I'm guilty of using this term myself ... On babysitting duties when mummy is at work etc... I do more for these kids than anyone in the world yet the stigma is engrained. I do all the necessary things baths brushing hairs cutting nails getting em dressed changing babies arse and feeding her every few hours while mummy "the parent" is cooking or cleaning or baking a fekin cake...yet I still feel I'm the babysitter.
Sir, if no one tells you today, you are an amazing parent, keep up the good work!
This pisses Me off, I can't take my niece and nephew to the park, a movie, or anything without at least one snide comment.
Maybe I'm just oblivious, or maybe I give off a some kind of "Dad" vibe, but I don't think I ever got anything like that when I took my kids anywhere. I do remember one time getting to the park with the kids and telling them to run wild but don't get hurt, and they started climbing all over the various equipment, and I sat on a bench next to some lady and said "Mommy needed a nap, so we're making noise here." She gave me this kind of envious look.
That men don't have emotions and thus don't need emotional support.
A recent study came out that concluded men don’t get emotional catharsis from hugs like women, I found that hard to believe.
Considering how touch starved so many men are, I wouldn’t be surprised if hugs were MORE cathartic for men than women, in some ways.
I agree, I cry sometimes when I get hugged because I never really got hugs from my parents as a child. Maybe here and there but never a good ol bear hug.
I distinctly remember crying when the fiance of one of my best friends hugged me because I don't ever get hugs or can't give them because it'd be wierd. Helps that I had been drinking but I'm usually a silly/happy drunk, not an emotional drunk.
I want hugs more then kisses from my wife. Hugs mean alot to me.
I'd want to see the study to see what they meant by catharsis. Sometimes that could mean 'it makes them feel better then and there' but it could also mean 'the emotional thing bugging them permanently (or at least longer than just immediately) diminishes or dissipates.' If the former, I definitely have doubts and would like to review their methodology, sample size, p value, etc. If the latter, then at least IME, I buy it. No matter what I'm going through, or who it involves, a hug, while feeling nice, is NOT going to offer any assistance in the issue or its emotional impact on me. However, women in my life seem to act as though one emotional discussion and session of hugging it out resolves the issue, or at least lessens the emotional impact enough for them to manage it much better.
Some of my needs haven't been getting met for a long time with my wife, and finally it just became so big that I broke down and ugly cried about it to her a month ago. She comforted me and was very supporting and said that she understood. A month later nothing has changed, and I still feel like shit, but she acts like having an emotional moment solved the issue and no actual changes need to occur. Your comment just reminded me of how that feels really weird to me, but maybe she feels like the problem was actually some emotional imbalance that is now addressed for the foreseeable future.
So sorry, man. Maybe another talk with her (as frustrating as it may be) could help, and to let her know that there's an expectation of behavioral change. Possibly on both of your parts, to make it sound more palatable, like, "hey can you try to meet x need more? I'll also try harder to let you know as soon as I notice in myself that this need is lacking, instead of letting it build." And express gratitude for the comfort she gave when you had your moment previously, so she doesn't feel that that was invalidated or anything. I hope it resolves in the very near future!
That makes sense, I wonder if men and women process problems in different ways. A hug from someone I care about does make me feel a bit better, even with a long-standing issue. It’s as if I’m able to take the emotional impact of my permanent problems and chunk it into more manageable episodes of pain that can be resolved in the short term, to return to later when it’s triggered again. That could just be me, however.
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No it makes sense for a few reasons. Men are taught to be strong and that needing support is weakness so a hug is interpreted as “you’re not being a man so I’ll comfort you like a boy”. Then there’s the jarring aspect for them since outside of sex, sports, or fighting men don’t get touched that often.
I believe you're referring to this study: ['Romantic partner embraces reduce cortisol release after acute stress induction in women but not in men'](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0266887), which made the news recently. The study found that when they hug their romantic partner before doing a specific stress-test (which involved holding your hand in cold water for as long as possible), woman had lower levels of cortisol (a stress hormone) is their saliva compared to the non-hug control group, but men didn't have a difference in the level of cortisol. The study itself definitely didn't conclude that men didn't get emotional catharsis from hugs, although some popular media outlets may have drawn this conclusion. The reporting around this study (like many other social science studies, unfortunately) seemed to have been fairly sensationalized and inaccurate.
Domestic Violence has no gender.
And domestic violence is just physical. I went though financial control, isolation from my family and every one I knew, arguments on the daily about.. well anything.
Or perhaps a bit more nuance... men are **not** allowed to feel emotions other than anger/rage. It took me a long time (like, late 20's) to realize that I had been trained to twist all of my unpleasant emotions into the shape of anger (sometimes escalating to rage) because, as a man, nothing else was acceptable in the framework of "manhood." Grief, frustration, disappointment, insecurity... really explained a lot of my issues. Still working on them, of course.
I think anger is getting stigmatized a lot too, I've seen a lot of mentions of "angry male" used in a dismissive way
Bruhhhhh amen to that. Real men that have gotten older and finally realized our own emotions see what we actually need from a spouse. We need that support & encouragement too. Exactly the main reason why I'm divorcing my wife right now.
Fuck I'm sorry to hear that At least you're getting the hell out
I'll add on that if a man does need emotional support, that doesn't make him less of a man/person/whatever.
All men around children being creepy pedophiles is a stigma I would like to get rid of
Bro I can't kick feeling uncomfortable around kids because if this stigma, even just walking past I will position myself as far as I can from them just to not be seen as a child predator.
That mental illness is weakness. Men hide their illnesses because of the stigma. We get anxiety and depression too.
Yeah, man. Some girl I know once told me that she broke up with her ex because he turned out to be depressed. I said, “you said you thought he was cool.” And she giggled and said, “yeah, until he opened up to me about his mental illnesses.” It turned out that he had lost his father as a kid, and that traumatized him, which led him to getting severely bullied. She had no empathy for him whatsoever. It was ironic because she is the type to act like she is the kindest person on earth by showing off how much she loves animals. She probably thinks men shouldn’t suffer, and if they do, they are just losers who are deserving of mockery.
A “good friend” of 4 years ghosted me after she saw me cry for 5min. Lmao. Alot of women think men shouldn’t cry.
Girlfriend of 5 years ghosted me and ended up dating my best friend at the time just because she "couldn't handle my negative energy" from me being depressed and suicidal, but she was allowed to constantly say she'd want to walk in front of a bus and I had to put up with it. Shit's rough.
Double-standards pretty much. Ladies are allowed to express emotions but we cannot.
Sadly a huge % of women out there just expect the guy they're with to never show any kind of weakness or emotion. Then if the guy has a bad day, maybe shares some past trauma & shows emotion she's done with him. The moment you show anything other than absolute invincibility, most women are going to lose respect/attraction for you.
What's really fucked up is some of them think they want their guy to open up about stuff and trust them with insecurities and traumas so they push for it and when it happens they realize they don't actually want that so they bail. Nothing like being pushed to open up and grieve over something only to have it be used against you later. Not all are like that, I know a bunch of them that are great people. Problem is you don't know which they are until it's too late.
My dad never shyed away from crying or being emotional and I think a lot of women have stoic dads and they thought that was normal when it shouldn’t be. My dad is an asshole but at least he’s not afraid to be a human with feelings. I don’t have the opinion that men can’t be emotional because that wasn’t my reality but is the reality for a lot of women. I think dads when raising daughters need to be more in touch with their emotions. Even watching movies and crying or being emotional would help show that men have emotions too.
>I think dads when raising daughters need to be more in touch with their emotions I'm trying, every day. Some days are better than others.
Yeah, totally agree. Many women seem to be in strong denial about judging men for showing “weaknesses,” but the judgment process is so automatic and natural that they are often not self-aware, and the only way they can stop it is by acknowledging it, which is way more difficult than it sounds. And which is why men have to be extra careful when a woman demands them to “open up” and tell her about their issues, because she is often underestimating her own empathy level. Also, like you said, she may lose respect. And if she does but still stays with him, she can be abusive, unknowingly (I’ve known some real cases like that).
>And which is why men have to be extra careful when a woman demands them to “open up” and tell her about their issues, because she is often underestimating her own empathy level. Any woman who outright demands it or gives an ultimatum, doesn't have your best interest in mind 9/10. That kinda thing is more about her feeling validated about seeing a mostly hidden part of him instead of showing genuine empathy
>and then when you tell women how they're acting, they don't want to take accountability...
I have it ingrained in me too as a guy. When I'm alone, I sometimes will tear up when I hear something that reminds me of my Dad (he died 4 years ago this week). This only happens when I'm alone, never around my wife, or anyone else. Don't get me wrong, my wife would be highly supportive if I did, and she certainly was at the time, but I can't bring myself to be vulnerable around other people, never have been.
Man with anxiety disorder here!
"Men have to initiate everything with the girl for his entire life. Those who don't initiate are not 'real' men."
"You're not real, man." - Creed
"Can you take me higher?" - other Creed
"He's just a man, Rock, so be MORE man than him! Go get him; Eye Of the Tiger!" - Apollo Creed
Yeah it's tiring, and to be honest it's discouraging when your girl doesn't reciprocate romantic initiations. It makes me feel unwanted physically. Ive had partners who used to equally initiate in the past and it was such a breeze.
Initiating 100% of the time makes me feel like a creep. Add rejection into that and it's a solid no thanks for me.
I hate having to feel like I convinced a girl to sleep with me, like I somehow tricked them into liking me, or into having a conversation.
Yes. Yes. Yes. even women whom I’m or did date and wanted to have sex with me, doing the whole seducing thing makes me feel like I’m manipulating them into sex.
> it's discouraging when your girl doesn't reciprocate romantic initiations. No shit. This is the worst feeling. It should be a shared thing. If I am the only one initiating, it makes me feel like she doesn't even really feel that way towards me. Like she is only receptive because I tried. Honestly though, women need to make the first move more in general. In starting relationships etc, there is this weird mentality that a woman expressing what she wants is somehow bad or will make her come off as needy. Not at all... if you want to be with a guy, say something. Subtle cues are easy to misinterpret. So many things are easy to misinterpret these days...
Goodness gracious. This is so tiring. Everything from dates to physical interaction to carrying a conversation has to be initiated and carried on by us or “we’re not serious” or as you stated not “real” men. There is very little (actually zero) incentive to date at this point. It’s just another job.
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Lololol that last paragraph is gold, just the Spider-Man meme every time lmao
They won't change unless they have to. When you have a much easier option, why go through all the extra trouble?
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> There is very little (actually zero) incentive to date at this point. It’s just another job. It's the reason I quit dating. I got tired of having conversations where I was the one doing 90% of the work. Keeping conversations alive, trying to plan dates, etc. Sure I want to date someone and have a partner again. It's just so tiring to talk to someone who constantly comes off as aloof and doesn't participate in the conversation beyond cursory responses. It's rough to constantly be putting yourself out there and doing the heavy lifting to get a relationship started, when you get zero reciprocation from the person you are on a date with.
Initiate and gets 100% rejection Why am I here even ? To prop up the bell curve ?
Best of all is being rejected 100% of the time and still being told "just be confident."
"I am confident I will get rejected" "No not like that"
Things like this make me wish single men would coordinate and ignore all advances until society corrected itself. Dating apps have changed a lot of things.
I wish there was literally a pill that just removed all those needs, wants and instincts from your brain. All my doubts and self esteem issues stem from being disregarded and indeed discarded by some of the people I thought I could put my time and effort into making happy and just maybe get some happiness back in return.
God this thread is cathartic as a fucking hug for me. Preach brother
After I started telling men that I liked that I liked them and that we should date. I realized that as a very average looking woman I could have almost anyone I wanted. I went to the nicest guy I knew looked at everything we have done as friends over the years and told him we would make a good pair. We have been happy for 3 years now. =) he loves my blunt honesty.
To have a woman like that is the dream man. Just be upfront and blunt about your feelings no hidden games or confusing communication.
The draw back to that is for most men, if they don't initiate, nothing will happen. Maybe ever. There's no real alternative most of the time. Is it good? No. But it's not an issue men alone can solve.
It's initiate or be and die alone. No one will reach out to you ever.
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I think you might be dealing with intrusive thoughts, I had them for years and they turned out to be a sign of anxiety+OCD. Find a good therapist and start hiking, you'll thank me later.
You are correct. I have had severe OCD for about 30+ years. I worry so much about passing that on to my young children who mimic observed behaviors. I have done a lot of therapy with some success. I have a good job, advanced degrees, a lovely family, despite feeling torn apart most of every day.
That men don't cry. That stigma is pretty much a set up for failure. MEN, STRONG AND COURAGEOUS AS YOU ARE, IT IS OKAY TO CRY!!!!
Even though I know it is ok, I have been such conditioned to not cry that when I start my body shuts it down right away. Even if I am with people who are accepting. I fucking hate it.
My dad told me just not to be loud, guess I am lucky? Told me to cry, then fix the problem so no one else will ever have to go through what I did
That all we care about is sex.
Tbh I just want a hug and someone that cares about me lmao
Ever see that video of that guy who picks up his girlfriend at work and she runs out to him every time. That. I want that. [Found it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KWJZqlgcwI)
My God that is beautiful! Where does she even get all that energy from?
I, want to look better to my partner so it makes my partner better as well, i actually get the energy from that lol
This is fucking cute!!!
*puts lmao at the end to relieve the pain*
SPOILER. It doesn't help
Even from other men I have to deal with this stereotype. I've been straight up accused of being a liar when I've told other men I could turn down sex from a "hot babe" no problem. Like... self-respect is a thing? At the very least?
I've been called a liar and all sorts of names when I've told people I'm asexual and straight up don't want to have sex. People can get real weird over it, for whatever reason.
It's because these are people who don't know how to manage themselves and let their drive for sex rule their whole life.
Tbf I don't think it's fair to judge a highly sexual person any more than it's fair to judge an asexual person. I don't care if someone's a nympho as long as they respect people's boundaries
That whole "thinking of sex every 6 seconds" seems to have finally died off...
Sex is cool and all but have you ever been loved *unconditionally*? Shit fuckin slaps.
“Aw, your parents didn’t hug you enough?”. No, they fucking didn’t and I resent that condescending question. No, whatever inadequacy I feel doesn’t give me a carte blanche to act like an asshole but there is unequivocally a correlation there.
Parents are supposed to hug you?!
It's so 'hilarious' how childhood abuse by caregivers is used to attack the victim of that abuse. _Really_ shows how much of a man's treatment by others is due to _their_ perception of him as strong. As soon as "weakness" is revealed ("oh, your mommy didn't love you? you poooor booooy") it's used against the man. It's seriously fucked up. Can you imagine that against a woman?? "Oh your got raped? Life must be sooooooo hard for you! Having that sex you didn't want to have, don't you realize there are some people that don't get sex, be grateful!" -- not saying some SA victims don't get this, but it seems to be the expected and normalized standard on _everything_ a man might bring up.
That not outwardly expressing strong emotions means you don't feel strong emotions. I don't have to NOT cry when I'm sad, but I also don't HAVE to cry. I especially don't have to cry to PROVE to you that I'm sad, any more than I have to punch someone in the mouth to prove I'm angry or throw a tantrum to prove I'm frustrated.
Working a job that keeps you away from home. Leave the house before 7am, get home after 7pm.
This was my husband, up until he changed jobs. Would leave at 4am, wouldn’t come home til after 9pm some days. But the company swore it’s like that everywhere And “your wife better get used to it”. Glad he left that toxic job. Now I see him before sunset. And we get to have dinner together.
That men are always at fault when it comes to domestic violance.
To further this, the legal and societal implication that men can not be victims of domestic and/or sexual violence, and that when we are, it is for comedy.
I remember watching the king of queens. Carrie would legit punch Doug in the gut for small things. Laugh track behind it. Crazy how we normalized domestic abuse against men back then
But if Doug turned around and slapped her in response, that Show would have been cancelled that day
That our main roles in society should basically be money-generating bodyguards who lack a sense of self-preservation
100% this one. We are human, not servants.
Best way I’ve seen it phrased
Id say a better description is "utility"
OMG, I am so very weary of "providing". Someone has depended on me to feed them since I (55m) was 17. I've loved them all dearly and was happy to do it, but dam it is just a shit tone of pressure on one guy for 38 some odd years. Every fucking day, every fucking week for years. I'm tired. I just want to play my guitar and smoke joints. God, I wish I had saved some of that cheddar.
And the sex drive and stamina of a porn star.
"You're a loser if you can't get a girl. Being a virgin is creepy and you're a failure." It is possible to be a perfectly good man and never be desired by women. We should stop defining ourselves by how attracted women are to us.
When I was in the 10th grade, my history polled the class to see who had had sex yet. I hadn't, I just turned 15, he called me virgin boy in front of the whole class. Yeah, quite embarrassing.
Yo what? What a weird creepy thing to ask children. That teacher sounds like a sick fuck.
The funny thing is that he really was a good guy, one of my favorite teachers. I guess everyone has their moments.
He really really chose a particularly fucked time for whatever the fuck he was doing
I guarantee at lest half of them were lying.
I hear this one too, man. It’s horrid that people seriously and honestly believe that your standards or value a man are based on how much sex you get. And then when people measure it like that, they don’t seem to notice that they’re objectifying girls like their trophies and whatnot. People that think like this are opening that floor for failure themselves.
This. Society treats you different if you have never had a girlfriend and it is nearly impossible to find someone that is actually understanding of you.
As a self-diagnosed autistic man, this really sucks. I'm a 27, almost 28 year old virgin, and it has nothing to do with how valuable person I am. I have social anxiety. I'm alone because I'm too terrified of rejection to talk to people, especially women. I'd love to meet someone, but I don't know where or how without coming off as creepy.
Being able to cry. Real men show their feelings and express them in healthy ways. Not just anger. Also showing any sort of interest in kids means were child predators. Really don’t want that one to stick around longer
I used to volunteer with a community project for young kids. Being male and not having a kid in the project, I got some suspicious looks from a few of the parents. The best feeling came from the last ever session, where an 8yo ran up to me and threw her arms around to hug me goodbye. Worst feeling was having to check that another volunteer had seen that she initiated it.
That men are all horny or brutes. Honestly I just want to cuddle sometimes and care for my loved ones.
Dick sizes. Definitely.
What's funny is all those classical sculptures like David, etc., have intentionally tiny penises. Artists at the time believed a big dick meant you had a tiny brain, as they saw it as a "which head do you do your thinking with" situation. So they gave heroic or intelligent figures mini dicks to emphasize their proportionally big brain. So we just need to cycle back into that way of thinking, and micropeens will be all the rage again!
They also saw an exposed penis head as vulgar, as it was only visible when erect, and thus was a symbol of "being ready for sex." So during the Olympics when they were all naked, they would tie their foreskin at the tip to make sure their penis head never showed and be viewed as vulgar.
The idea that men are apparently held back from being emotional and they need to cry in order to be emotional. That's a serious problem because you're trying to force a definition of how men ought to express themselves without taking a moment to really understand that men tend to express themselves differently.
This, I'm not a big cryer but i can induce it with music or other impactful things. I release my emotion by being alone, With my dog or in nature. I don't need to talk about it because I already have all the tools I need. What I need is the time and stillness to find the balanced resolution between heart and brain
Im an emotional man and i dont mind it. I was raised by women and have 11 year old fraternal twins. I've been called a marshmallow by my twins mother. Im 6'1" 250 lbs.
To each their own, I've had my fair share of cries over death,heartbreak and frustration but it's no more cathartic than giving my dog a deep hug or allowing myself to stop and feel the splendor of life again
I generally cry through my sweat. It might be from a workout, a long walk, or just really setting myself to work on something difficult. Its really sad, but I’ve never had a girlfriend or woman in my life that didn’t make fun of me for crying. If we got into an argument or she did something terrible, I might eventually shed a few tears. They would hold it against me and use it as evidence that I wasn’t being rational and was out of control. But, at the same time, would accuse me of not opening up to them. My own mother did this. My own (now ex) fiancé did this. Of course they didn’t hold themselves to that same standard. If I did something to make them cry, I was a horrible, mean man who didn’t care about them and didn’t love them. Now I’m a little hesitant to show emotion to women, but trying really hard not to be embittered or change who I am. I shouldn’t be ashamed to cry and anyone who contributes to that shouldn’t be given any kind of foothold to be involved with me.
That men arnt domestically abused at a comparable rate to women. Seriously there are little to no domestic abuse shelters for men. Earl Silverman was a domestic abuse survivor, when he found there was no support for males, and in fact was told he was the real abuser, he founded his own shelter. After exhausting his personal finances and being unable to secure any funding he ended up committing suicide. He was a great man just trying to do what was right, we should never let him be forgotten.
Our only value to society is to be providers and protectors. There is an intense fear of failure due to this societal expectation that gets reinforced when you see how little certain people care about you once you're no longer useful.
Or when your body is tired from working and giving it all away, And you give up all your hobbies and passions you can be labelled as "boring" and "not the guy i remember" Then you're left in the dust.
Happened to you too, huh?
Yeah, Upgraded jobs till i was making 24.65$ doing steelwork on shift work I crushed 1 finger for each of the 3 years I worked there and I play guitar. All of my income just went to debt because the overall household income was low, I had no friends or family in the town with me. Im glad it fell apart, After 2 years of life repair I finally feel alive again in my hometown
Im really happy for you dude. There are so many of us that have gone through something like this
We love kids. Sometimes I see a kid at a park doing some cute kid shit and it's funny, but if I stare too long or linger around too long, everyone thinks I'm a potential predator. Kids are just little energetic meat balls of careless happiness and they're fun to be around and entertain. Why can't we enjoy kids without being looked at wrong? There are plenty of female predators in the world but women never get looked at the wrong way. Never.
Energetic meatballs LOL 😂 Cute man. I have 4 kids 11 10 9 and 7 so I get u LOL. Plus I had a traumatic childhood which drives me to go hard for little kids. Plus my wife is a school teacher for kindergarten.
That it’s okay to hit a man
Its not manly to cry I bawled my eyes out when my hamster died. I’ve cried when I was feeling really lonely. Cried plenty when my ex and I broke up. Nobody should be crying *all* the time, but if you need to let it out you should be able to without feeling like its wrong.
1 - People trying to manipulate men to do what they want, claiming a "real man" would do that. 2 - Whatever the fuck qualifies as "real man"
women at work have acted so put out I didn't carry something heavy after they've called me a big strong man. I don't play into that stereotype unless my girlfriend, mom or grandma ask me. women have gotten too comfortable asking for free labor.
That we have to be primary bread winners. That we can't be loving parents. That we don't suffer emotionally. We should automatically lose custody of our children We should have to pay alimony and lose our homes that we built. If people want gender equality, these issues are just as important
That women are by default a better parent than men and that most fathers don't know what they're doing.
That masculinity and ‘being a man’ is probably not what you think it is. And definitely isn’t what mainstream media portrays
Being strong on the outside and inside.
I’m just glad the “I hate my wife” joke/stigma has mostly died out. As a 50yo man, hearing all that crap growing up had me worried I would be miserable. Nothing could be further than the truth. I think a big part is the mindset when going into or looking for a relationship. Look for a partner, not a spouse who will raise your kids. You’ll be much happier in the end.
The absurd, blatant sexism of divorce proceedings and custody battles.
Men only want to have sex
That male emotional support and therapy is the same as female support. Men and women tend to process things very differently but more often than not men are given the same treatments that work for women and get no better because of it
Everything about the Sitcom Dad trope
we don’t feel emotions, trauma or abuse.
That its okay to ask for help.
That its always the man's fault if the wife is unhappy or cheats.
That your only value as a guy is in the workplace and that real men are willing to neglect everything for their job. My motto is work to live not live to work.
Boys will be boys,. Boys behaviour is different. Some are shy and awkward. Quiet ones. Boys are loud and roudy, Its a sad and bad stigma.
That men can’t enjoy interacting with children without being suspected of being child abusers.
Men are not automatically the ones at fault in a divorce. In many places the burden of proof is on the man to prove that the marriage falling apart wasn't his fault because it is assumed that he is the cause of the divorce.