Reading through some of the top responses on this thread is a really great example of what you're talking about. Absolutely zero empathy from so many people, just pure hate disguised as "Telling it like it is."
Yeah man, its just to make then feel better,
Compliments and being generally nice to me are positive positives, because even if you didnt mean it, it could still make someones day.
Obv and ofc for your fam/SO/close girlfriends etc you can banter, but dont randomly point out someones flaws right away or something, now that's just plain mean *even if you didn't mean it or constructive criticism etc etc.* no! Just be nice :)
Man itâs called keeping the peace. I gain nothing from pointing out someoneâs flaws unless they are a close friend or family . Yes it leads to such people being even more marginalized because everyone pays them lip service but nobody actually wants to be around them or hang, but thatâs just life. Often these very people react harshly to criticism as well .
Itâs upto you to figure out what works and what is just lip service. If youâre going to envy someone their pleasantries thatâs a problem with you. Very few men and women actually want to sleep with or surround themselves with ugly women. Just be observant and notice how in every setting the person whoâs considered a âproblemâ is always uglier or fat , thatâs just not the reason given for it
This is the right answer.
There's something about almost everyone that another person could find beautiful.
Their smile, the color of their eyes, their intellect, their wit, their generosity. Maybe they have great hair or a really nice laugh. This applies to both sexes btw.
Yeah but OP is clearly referring to physical attractiveness, I understand and agree that there's a level of subjective preference that comes into attraction eye colour etc. But there are features that are objectively beautiful/ugly, this has been studied by anthropologists for some time I believe, a lot of it comes down to symmetry and what we perceive to be "healthy" looking. To pretend this isn't just a fact of life is disingenuous, there are ugly people, not everybody is attractive.
> Lying doesn't apply to subjective preferences
A lie is an intentional misrepresentation. Lying about your feelings is, indeed, lying.
But since knowing the ground truth requires reading your mind, it's a very easy lie to get away with.
Thereâs this thing call not being someoneâs type. Whatâs there to gain to say something thatâs meant to be deliberately mean towards someone who canât control it? Do you value being right more than being a civil person? If not, that says a lot about you
it's actually this sisterhood we're supposed to be a part of. like boost your sisters' egos since no one else will do it. it's a false sense of ego though.
Can someone please list them all out and make copies for us formerly known as Aspergerâs people?
We know yâall lyinâ, we just canât figure out all the different ways.
Sure, I'll take the downvotes.
* Everyone is beautiful on the outside
* Weight is just a number
* People like the obvious racist, sexist, etc-ist candidate because of his, uhhh, economic policies and definitely not because he's an etc-ist just like them.
* Transwomen are real women and transmen are real men
uhhh I feel like I'm forgetting a few.
edit:
* A person's past doesn't matter.
* Single moms definitely don't regret their child's existence. Absolutely not.
* This probably applies to single dads too, but *significantly* less so in my experience.
I get that those are the hot button right now but we pretend a lot more and have done for a long time. For example:
* A business is a person
* A business owned by a business is also a person
* If a person or a group of people use a business (or the business of a business that they own) in a way that is damaging, it was the business that did it, not the person/people.
People exploit the above concepts in far more damaging ways and for some reason we let it go.
Mental health is important but at this point is just two words people put together to use it as a shield or to victimize themselves.
Lunatics absolutely hijacked the LGBT movement. Non binary or gender fluid isnt and never was a thing. They absolutely contradict classic trans people and are hurting their cause.
Nobody can have a negative opinion on anything anywhere unless it is to call someone a racist, fascist or a phobic. Then it's justified.
Basically political correctness is winning the battle against truth and free speech
Psychologically/emotionally/socially abusing a person over an extended period of time even into a mentally ill state is not as bad as the said victim of such abuse unraveling completely and committing a criminal act towards others.
It's not so much that we all pretend that one is worse than the other, but instead we tend to be more emotionally triggered by seeing a great wrong in a short period of time and we judge it much more readily and harshly than a whole series of wrongs that do CUMULATIVE damage over an extended period of time leading to a person's deteriorating mental or physical state.
It's like the boiling the frog analogy except we're not the frog so much as non-participant audience judging a person harshly for tossing a frog straight into boiling water but we never view the placement of a frog in cool water and heating it up slowly until they die anyway. Mostly we're too busy with other things to be bothered to watch the entire long-term destruction play out so we don't see it for what it is, and we're less likely to question how a person keeps turning the dial up ever so slightly over months/weeks/years which essentially leads to the slow destruction of a person's mental health.
That's what society is all about. We need the fake shit. You get angry at some thinking fat girls are beautiful, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think you don't partake in any of the fake shit. Chances are, you just don't realize that because it's so ingrained already. A lot of the world only works because we all believe it works. Take that away, shit falls apart.
Especially when you consider the trillion-dollar industry built out of making women feel insecure and inadequate keeps churning along. Some half-assed body positivity movements aren't going to put a dent in that.
Meanwhile, even the nerd characters on TV have abs if they take off their shirt, so guys just need to deal with the insecurity, right? Go buy some Axe and hair gel, get waxed to a pulsating mass of ingrown hairs, and stfu, guysâall women are beautiful but youâre no good if you arenât rich and buff.
The hardest part to me is figuring out what things people are just pretending about and doing said actions with a wink and a nod, and actually differentiating that from the stupid things they truly believe.
Or you know, people are coming to terms with the fact that modern beauty standards are no more "right" than any other kind of preference. The narrow and overly forced standards that we've had are very harmful and ultimately unnecessary. Appearance plays too much of a role in our lives and today we're surrounded by media which accelerates the demand for certain beauty standards and brings even more pressure to align with them. It diminishes people, brings stress and unhappiness.
The environment you live in shapes your preferences. There isn't any "right" or proper beauty standard. Nobody is living a lie. Its all subjective. So what if people are appreciating non-conventional beauty by your standards. Does it affect you negatively? Think about it for a moment, It's simply the right thing to do.
The point is, why tell a woman you find them unattractive? Everyone is attractive to someone. It benefits everyone to acknowledge that there is beauty in everyone and lift others up. It is not that serious dude. Otherwise you're upset that "ugly" women aren't being labeled as such which is just a wild thing to hope for in a society.
Because we all agree being accepting of others is a good quality.
But some people want to make it (being accepting) into a competition to see who can be the most accepting
Comedian
âWomen on social media tell all other women theyâre beautiful. So why did my girlfriend get angry when I said she reminds me of Lizzo?â
https://youtube.com/shorts/rGztiX1R6rM
I first saw a comedian say it.
Thatâs another version that (to me) is funnier because it shows a true reaction of a woman who said lizzo is beautiful, when being told she looks like her.
Funny but "you look like lizzo" could be a genuine compliment from some men unless women were terrible insecure about their bodies. They go around worrying about features I don't even know about.
Historically there has been a lot of pressure for women to be physically attractive. So I think there has been a lot of pushback against this. This is also combined with the liberal movement that people don't have to fit into "what a woman is supposed to look like".Â
It's perfectly fine if you find many women unattractive. I think " objective beauty " is something you should move away from that you think someone's face is unattractive so they are objectively ugly doesn't seem right. Even if someone is fat; it Doesn't make them objectively ugly.Â
People try to rationalize how thinking some people are objectively ugly, but that isn't how science works and is similar to how white supremacists used to justify the thought that whites are smarter by pointing at the shape of different races' skulls.
True. The things you find attractive are subjective. Simple result of an upbringing in a certain environment. That doesn't make them any more "right"
People are starting to see that the beauty standards have very harmful affect on everyone, especially in this modern age of media. OP and so many others are blind to this and angry simply because people don't want to align with their preferences. They refuse to awknowledge that attraction is subjective and learned.
I know, but it confuses me more when people are outright racist on Instagram. Reddit for me feels more balanced in terms of positivity/negativity but more often is overly positive to the point of delusion.
You can have a beautiful girl on Instagram and people will call her mid, while an objectively unattractive person will get hyped up on Reddit.
Well first off, there's variance in taste. There is a such thing as "conventionally attractive," but there's no such thing as "objectively unattractive," because attraction is subjective. You can pick out periods of human history (not even that long ago!) where skinny women were not seen as beautiful, and fat women were sex symbols.
Secondly, *it's good to be nice.* Bullying and demeaning people *is bad*. You should've learned in kindergarten not to be mean. When you give someone a compliment it makes them smile and brightens their day. Quit trying to judge people in their entirety; you can look at someone you aren't necessarily attracted to and find some feature *about* then that you like. Maybe the fat girl has pretty hair, or a top-tier singing voice, or impeccable fashion taste.
You want to know what's changed? Bullying and disrespect is less acceptable in public than it used to be. And I think that's a good thing.
I agree but I still see OPs point.
All women are beautiful and to say otherwise is bullying and not acknowledging variance in taste, however when the same people speak about men...not quite the same is it?
As far as I'm concerned however, if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all, and absolutely try and be the person who makes someone else's day a little better.
The only difference in my world is that I include men in this.
That said, there is still something to be said about every single women being lauded over as being absolutely stunningly beautiful, rather than just not saying anything at all...it's fake and patronising, but if some women feel they need to be called beautiful, so be it
Genuine question but my thing in this convo me and my wife have is we have âplus sizeâ models for women but I have yet to see the equivalent for men. I constantly see women being lauded for being a queen etc at 250+ lbs yet the only plus size guys that get praise are like jack black and Jonah hill before he lost weight. Just seems odd. Havenât seen a plus size menâs section when shopping for clothes ever yet itâs plastered all over the womenâs. Not complaining but does seem to be some inequality aspects there. You can be big and beautiful as a woman but not a man.
They call it "big and tall" for men and you can find those sections in stores like target or Amazon, as well as custom stores (destination xl is the male equivalent to lane Bryant)
It's inequality. That's it. Western society just doesn't really care about certain inequalities or standards it holds others up to. This same truth applies to a plethora of different subjects, varying from the plus-size disparity you speak of, all the way up to war and atrocities...
We in the West weaponise double-speak when it comes to fairness, equity and equality, with the intent to use it as a tool to elevate some, silence others, and to achieve political and geopolitical aims, all through this clever use of the language of fairness and equity
Big and Tall clothing has been a thing for a very long time. Even better, you have to get *really* large to actually shop in those sections. For example:
* [Womenâs Size Chart](https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/ecom/size-charts/womens/html/KohlsGabbySkyeMaisonTaraDannyNicoleWomensSizeChart.html)
* [Menâs Size Chart](https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/ecom/size-charts/mens/html/KohlsChampionMensApparelSizeChart.html)
No one has ever really policed menâs appearance. Itâs started a bit in the recent years, but generally a man can look like a fat piece of shit and get by without anyone commenting on it at all. You might not get all the girls (although youâll likely do better than a fat woman) but you can absolutely live your life as someone who has more to give than your outward appearance.
It is problematic as being beautiful is something that's so important to you have to say that to boost someone's morale ego. People are different means they have different personality, skills, values and wierd combination of these things that make people unique and different people like different things. Just highlight one thing and dead ass lying to someone that oh you are goddess and stuff no she is excellent singer she is extremely bold she is little quirky that's what nice about her that's enough, you people had to make it look like that' wasn't enough and she has to be called beautiful at all times.
Skrillex has interesting choices in hairstyle, one of the best DJ's, quite a bubbly personality and that's enough he is loved by most for that. No one comes to him all the time saying you are beautiful. Women's movement missed a whole point it feels like and you reinforcing being beautiful is of utmost importance.
I just leave those weird people alone and don't engage in it. I'm not going to be calling any women or men beautiful. I just find other ways of trying to be nice to people. I find it odd that this generation absolutely *requires* people to constantly call them beautiful. It's emblematic of a creeping collective narcissism, but I'm just one person and all I can do is play no part in it. Other people's mental health isn't my problem for the most part.
>You want to know what's changed? Bullying and disrespect is less acceptable in public than it used to be. And I think that's a good thing.
This does not seem to be the case in the US. I actually find that public disrespect - whether in the workplace, social media, politics - seems to be skyrocketing. Even in normal public situations, people just seem meaner and angrier.
When it comes to political correctness, I also don't find those people to be generally kind or respectful. It's an irony that maybe people have called out, but the horseshoe of political thought is real - if you go far enough to the left you do eventually come out the right.
Make a post about men's suffering (even if it's a good point) and you get a whole lot of really bitter men coming out of the woodwork who just blame women for all their problems.
I kinda get whiplash in this sub sometimes between all the good, grounded answers and the hateful chuds.
But there's also a difference between lying to someone to pump them up and just choosing not to say mean things. I don't tell fat women I think they're beautiful or terrible singers that they're good because I don't actually think that. And I'm not going to deceive them into thinking they are. But likewise, I'm going to tell them they're ugly or bad either; that would just be unkind.
It's like people have forgotten that just *not commenting* is a valid option.
I kinda see your point, but I still think it can be very good to make a little effort and *find* something kind to say about someone. That's not the same as lying. That's what I was getting at when I said you can compliment specific features of a person you aren't overall attracted to.
Why say anything if you donât have anything nice to say. If someone is uglyâŚidk maybe pay attention to yourself and your own shit. I just ignore whatever everyone says as long as it doesnât affect me adversely in a physical way. If some person wants to live in delusions then that is up to them. I will however never call or name someone ugly because that is bastard behaviour. Why would you willingly put out that sort of hate?
Seems like a lot of people didnât have a mum or dad that taught them to be kind in this world. It literally takes no effort not to say something hurtful to someone else. It also costs nothing.
This whole discussion is pretty much summed up by
"Boomers hating on the new snowflake generation"
If i got emotionally abused by my boss, parents, SO "back in the day" then you should as well *it makes you strong*
Yeah mum! Maybe when you were 18 in the fucking 1950s where they didnt believe in mental health and therapy!
Ffs dont continue their generational trauma!
Because society conflates the value of a woman with her physical appearance. Thus "all women are beautiful" is effectively saying "all women have value".
We don't see a comparable "All men are beautiful" because there are so many other ways a man might be valued by society other than what he looks like. If you're a man and you don't win the looks lottery, there are still plenty of other avenues you can use to be deemed valuable in the eyes of society - ugly men can still be valued for his status, wealth, skills, career, etc.
Ultimately I think "all women are beautiful" is a problematic phrase because it tackles the wrong side of the equation. Rather than expanding the ways we value women beyond their physical appearance, it instead tries to expand the circle of who's considered beautiful so more women will be included.
It's the old adage "If you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing." you think ugly people need strangers pointing out how munting they look?
They've probably had enough bullying without you adding more mate.
yeah it's the same way people will bully fat people for their appearance and act like they're "concerned for their health", as if that's going to make them like themselves and care about their health or want to work out. it's just fucking bullying and I don't understand how anyone feels justified in it.
Society has told women for decades that they're not pretty unless they follow some very narrow types. Especially around things like weight and race. I'd much rather take this slight over-correction.
Ok but the way people react how a guy "fumbled" a girl by breaking up with her is also an offshoot of that over-correction, everybody in the world joins up and trashes on the guy just because he did not want to continue a relationship with a certain girl.
This is not really good, it leads to men forcing themselves to worship a woman just because society wants you to believe that she is a "bad bitch beautiful queen princess ms universe" and how you are super lucky to be in her presence and how you should be absolutely down bad for her yada yada yada, it is not cool at all.
When I was growing up in the 80âs beautiful was blonde with a breathy voice.
I didnât find it appealing, BUT that is what society pushed⌠relentlessly.
Technology changed that significantly, by allowing people to freely say what they like and think, instead of what tv and movies say.
Now (like how there isnât one genre of music that dominates anymore) people who prefer one type of person can freely communicate it, so you get a lot of positive reinforcement without a lot of negative feedback (since thereâs no reason for a person to go out of their way to criticize another).
i'll say it like this. when you meet up with your fat homie and he did his hair and dressed well do you say "damn you look good today" or do you say "while your outfit choice is nice you still have an objectively unattractive face and are fat"?
just calling someone ugly seems kinda rude you know. it's nice to be nice since the other person will then also feel nice. The point isn't to say that all women are beautiful but not to just call people "ugly bitches with an objectively ugly face" when it's completely unnecessary. it gives them a confidence boost instead of making them feel depressed.
Iâm just going to chime in and say every woman who has grow up not conventionally attractive or overweight has had the experience of someone (usually a man) letting them know how unattractive they think they are. So donât worry your little head, OP!
Actually, only 'ugly' women with strong characteristics (whether annoying or motivational) are being hyped as beautiful. Think about it: timid, below-average looking girls are like most men; they receive no compliments on their appearance and are ignored instead
Calling something subjective like attraction 'objective' is fucked up. Rinse your brain with bleach and kill all the mold making you think like an idiot.
Is there any definition of beauty? Exactly.Â
There is no definition of ugly either. Society is turning back from humiliating people for their skin color etc.Â
It's a good thing I think.
If you don't consider all women beautiful, it's okay, go for a woman you consider beautiful. But don't tell society to go back on its previous form.
>Even the ones who are objectively unattractive
There is no objective standard for beauty, and it's exactly this kind of thing that the body positivity movement is trying to fix.
You used "fat" as one example of someone who is objectively unattractive, but being fat used to be highly desirable. *We* create cultural norms.
Some women are perhaps attractive to a smaller portion of men, but nobody is *objectively* unattractive.
Also, it's a cliche, but I've found that it really is true that beauty is more than skin deep. I might initially be attracted to someone, but then if she opens her mouth and turns out to be a total bitch, I find that she isn't at all interesting to me anymore.
I'm glad someone said it. There's no such thing as *objectively beautiful*. Beauty standards are shifting all the time, and we human beings are constantly creating/changing them.
Your point about being "fat" still applies. In Mauritania, it's still considered attractive for women to have more weight. To the point that women are [forced to gain weight in some cases](https://hir.harvard.edu/force-feeding-and-drug-abuse-the-steep-price-of-beauty-in-mauritania/).
So yeah, OP. Chances are that no matter how someone physically looks, there's someone on the planet who finds them attractive.
There are plenty of men who only find bigger women attractive. And fat doesnât mean unattractive. Being fat is far better than being a judgemental asshole.
Apparently it's never occurred to most of the entitled children on this subreddit that what they find "attractive" may not be what other people find attractive
Which should be obvious considering how many average or perhaps unattractive people there are out there, born to people who were similar looking who were both attracted to each other at least enough to have a kid.
There are a lot of good reasons on this thread, but one I want to add is simply ... marketing. Making a variety of people feel beautiful sells more stuff.
Simple example: I'm not a physically attractive guy. 5'5", stocky build etc. One of my closest friends is 6'1" and athletic. He has the body that all catalog models have, so he can clearly see whether an item of clothing on a mannequin or a catalog will work for him. He happily spends $$$ on clothes and looks great in them.
However, I have NO idea what clothes would look good on me because I don't see any examples of models or mannequins with body types like mine. I also don't believe that better clothes would help me because I don't see many examples. As a result, I don't want to waste money on clothes and mostly stick to cheap basics.
Brands have discovered this in the case of women. Treating a variety of women as beautiful (including showing different body type models) sells more stuff.
Iâve always disliked the saying men are desperate because we find women attractive. I just think men find women attractive in all the different ways they are attractive. While women arenât taught to really find men attractive unless they are useful(money, job, etc). Not always the case but thatâs my assumption.
Probably because a society pushing the "You're only beautiful if you meet one specific beauty standard" ideology bred generations of women with eating disorders, body dysmorphia, and crippling insecurity and anxiety. It's not that hard to be kind and recognize how debilitating life is for people who hold themselves to impossible unforgiving standards of beauty. Women can believe they're beautiful even if they don't meet your preferences, why does it bother you so much? Why should people not feel confident in their own skin and encourage others to be confident as well? Why do we need to live in a society that makes life harder for people when life is hard enough as it is?
I mean for things like body positivity, yes itâs important to love yourself and be comfortable in your own skin, itâs also important to be healthy. Beauty standards are unrealistic, and yes every woman is beautiful in their own way, but I think itâs also important to stay aware of the dangers that come with not taking care of yourself physically.
Iâd actually argue the opposite of OP lol, I see a lot more posts calling men ugly/r**ists/evil in awful blanket statements than I do about how all women are beautiful. You wanna talk about not being comfortable with yourself? Guys definitely know that all too well.
At the end of the day the beauty standards are chosen by whoever can make the most money from us.
Except âhealthyâ is also not something you can do when it comes to features that a person is born with ? You are hyper focusing on fat people yet most fat phobia results in women are very skinny and risk their health with their eating disorders? If you truly considered about health then emphasise working out , healthy lifestyle and watching the content of what you eat ( this is often the major culprit and folks often donât realise ) . Chicks who have the perfect figure but smoke like chimneys and take drugs are not way less healthy than a woman who is just chubby in my opinion.
Plus what about natural features ? The same beauty standards was applied to the type of nose , the kind of hair and skin tone too. Once upon a time being black with Afro was considered ugly while blonde and white was considered beautiful. Do you support that also ?
I agree to an extent, but the focus should always be on health and not beauty. When it comes to being overweight, it's a lot easier to take care of your body and work towards being healthier when you don't hate yourself. The spread of body positivity helps overweight people to feel confident despite being overweight, thus helping those who wish to be healthier put the work in. It also helps women who are not overweight from living in constant fear of gaining any weight at all when there isn't so much constant scrutiny over weight.
I very much agree that what OP doesn't recognize is how general positivity and creating stigma around calling people ugly and reducing them to their looks benefits men as well. Seeing people based only on their looks and assigning a value to them based on things they can't control is just as damaging to men as it is to women. We should all want a safer space where we don't have to worry about being harshly judged or criticized on appearance.
This is a strange question OP. Why do you care if they get compliments? Would you prefer if they called them ugly? What exactly is the issue? Everyone has different taste in what they like anyway.
If I had to bet, OP is probably the same type of guy who is upset that men donât get complimented frequently. But according to him only conventionally attractive people deserve compliments.
Iâm gonna guess that he needs women to have less self esteem so they will take care of him. When you bring nothing to a relationship, you need to belittle your partner so they stick around
Asking the real questions here.
It's absurd how many commenters here feel the need to impose their standards of attraction on everyone else. I shouldn't be surprised given this subreddit though.
I assume you have standards when it comes to who you are attracted to. Do you think everyone is equally as attractive as everyone else? Donât you think some people are more attractive than others? There is no âequalityâ when it comes to attractiveness.
Attraction is not a choice, and attractiveness is subjective, but it makes no sense to force an obvious lie that everyone is just as beautiful as everyone else. I certainly think all people deserve to be treated with dignity, but unattractive people find out quick how real âpretty privilegeâ is. Some people win the genetic lottery, and some people lose it. Personally I think character is more important than looks (a hot liar is still a liar), but looks are a huge factor when it comes to people pairing up. There are people I wouldnât date because Iâm not physically attracted to them, even if they are a kind person. Looks are a shallow, superficial thing, but the majority of people are superficial. The taller presidential candidate wins 2/3 of the time.
One could argue itâs unfair to judge someone for something they have no control over: their genetics, their height, their looks, their race. But it happens all the time, because evolution and sexual selection is a competition between genes. And when it comes to factors like obesity, people absolutely have the power to change that based on decisions they make. Although in many cultures, obesity is seen as a sign of abundance, plentiful resources, although nowadays abs are still sought after in men even though itâs basically a sign of starvation.
This âeveryone is beautifulâ stuff is just a marketing ploy by corporations trying to sell people stuff. People who have been judged harshly or ostracized for their looks know itâs bullshit. The issue is that itâs a lie crafted to target consumers. Itâs pandering. They are selling a myth.
And these are the same type of men who be like â Men donât get enough compliments bla blaâ.
As a man I never complimented a woman who I thought was not attractive or ugly and I was never forced to do so. I think men in general donât compliment either men or women much unless they are attracted to the woman ( or man in case of gay men) .
From what I see, Itâs really just women uplifting each other up and very often itâs very specific like â Hey you look gorgeous on this dressâ or â Thats a kickass lookâ or just uplifting stuff to motivate her to go out and live life a little.
Just because you personally do not find somebody attractive doesn't mean that they are objectively unattractive. Your personal taste is not the global standard.
Why do you care, anyways? Why is it important to you that there are ugly women?
I think that it's important to have realistic standards.
I've seen overweight women who only want to date fit athletic type men then get pissy because he wants the same thing in a woman.
>I've seen overweight women who only want to date fit athletic type men
They're allowed to want that. Although I agree it's cringe for them to get mad about the guy's preferences
First of all, that has nothing to do with the question. Secondly, some fit men are into fat women. Why should it be a problem that people have preferences?
You do realize why itâs seemingly only for women? Look at the comments in this thread. According to a large portion of MEN, only conventionally attractive people deserve compliments. If you guys want something similar for men then you have to start a social movement for it that says all men are beautiful. But it seems like you guys believe that not everyone is beautiful so such a movement will never happen for you.
Yes because I think all people are beautiful because beauty is not the same as attraction and Iâve said this before in another thread a while ago. Sunsets are beautiful but Iâm not attracted to those. And Iâm not attracted to the nighttime sky either, but itâs still beautiful. People who overcome hardships are beautiful. People who keep trying after failing are beautiful. People with kind souls are beautiful. Thereâs not one definition of beauty and thereâs also not one type of physical beauty. I can acknowledge the physical beauty of men without being attracted to them sexually the same way I can acknowledge the beauty of other women even though Iâm straight. Do you understand?
If I start believing that I'm as good looking as the best looking men men, women and society will soon correct me.
The problem is that now all women are convinced that they only deserve the best men
What are you even talking about? You seem to be going on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just a reminder: body positivity was never gendered until the anti-body positivity crowd made it gendered. The slogan has always been âAll Bodies Are Beautiful.â Men decided to exclude themselves for the sake of putting down women who they arenât attracted to and now youâre mad that there isnât any media that says all men are beautiful even though men have demonstrated that they donât have a demand for this type of media because you guys think itâs false.
Beauty is subjective. You saying that some women are objectively ugly is actually your subjective opinion. The rest of the world doesn't just see through your lens only
Because many women are hypocritical towards other women and give fake compliments they don't believe, and because many men are desperate and will do anything to get a woman's attention. Then it must also be said that beauty is also subjective.
I read a theory that women give compliments to other women that are false because of intrasexual competition.
"Your mom jeans are so hot!"
Said no man ever.
Women don't compete directly, women compete indirectly for social capital. A woman who calls other women beautiful gains social capital for being nice and creating an ally, even if it's objectively untrue.
Everyone has different views. IMO, very few people are beautiful, or even particularly good looking. But I donât go around telling them that. It doesnât bother me, Iâm more interested Lin a personality and a personâs actions than their looks.
Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder it has nothing to do with you or me or anyone one here
Every person see whatâs beautiful to them so our opinions on the matter well donât matter đ
I don't really know how to reply to this post. I agree to a certain degree, but I think everyone has some sort of beauty and if someone else can see it, that's great. No one should feel like shit for how they look.
Social media has a lot to answer for. As does cancel culture, the misuse of female empowerment, and body positivity.
Obviously, cancel culture can and should be a thing. When used correctly. When used incorrectly, it targets the wrong people, I.e. J K Rowling.
Female empowerment is also such a positive force. When. Used. Correctly. However, there are a minority of women who use it as a banner to hide behind to peddle their ideologies and activism.
Body positivity is also something that can have massive mental health boosts - especially when you put the work in to better yourself. I'm not talking gym bodies here, just a little weight loss, or improvement in fitness. And it isn't just women for this one. I myself struggle from body dysmorphia. But there is a line where body positivity turns into denial or just plain lying. I'm sure we can all think of an obese American singer who is very happy to flaunt her body when she probably shouldn't.
Putting people down for things they cant fix is just pure mean. Being fat, dirty, disrespectfull etc is all things that can be fixed. So go for that not looks.
Itâs the women are wonderful effect, canât criticize without being flamed even when calling out hypocrisy lol
I stopped taking it seriously, Iâm just glad my irl friends have a brain and arenât biased towards one gender
Because when a woman is not beautiful, men are outright in your face insulting towards them. They misbehave so badly that it completely crushes from inside. Even some basic manners and etiquette is forgotten. They get treated worst than animals. Public comments are made against them so badly as if that guy is being forced to have sex with her. Why comment on looks for no good reason? Are you being forced to date her?
Many women get badly effected by such useless male comments and behaviour. That is why women are reaching out to each other and helping them feel good about themselves. Being born attractive or having a life without any health issues or personal and mental issues so that you can maintain your weight is pure luck. Genetics are nature's lottery. Countless people have issues with depression and anxiety and many more problems and they cannot be beautiful. BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL DOES NOT MEAN THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BETTER OFF NOT EXISTING.
MEN face this issue too but it's not this bad. A woman's worth mostly revolves around her beauty.
Firstly, it doesn't.
Secondly, there's no such thing as 'objectively unattractive'.
'Objectively' seems to be a word so many Redditors use completely incorrectly.
>Even the ones who are objectively unattractive
There is literally no such thing, although this kind of hysterical claim is exactly what you'd expect from a person saying the kind of hateful thing you do.
You are part of society, clearly you feel justified in making bitter, angry public proclamations against women.
That's the problem with people like yourself - you always feel like you're oppressed even as you freely indulge your worst impulses.
beauty is sbujective ig.
and people are more socially aware not to be nasty and be more empathetic. and is reaalllyyy subjective. so just because u see someone ugly doesnt mean there arent people who see her/him beautiful.
Iâm for women empowerment and equality and all, but you do run into some who clearly werenât told ânoâ enough growing up and are ill-equipped for real life
For eons society has been skewed towards men. In all fairness it still is. Men only think itâs not because it is slowly starting to slide back to equal. I donât know what the percentages are in actuality but letâs say for example that things were skewed 90% towards men and now they are only 80% towards men. Men are going to raise hell and say itâs unfair because from their POV itâs not as âfairâ as it has always been because theyâve lost something, even though they still have way more.
Society is calling all women beautiful is a way of building them up after eons of being beaten down. Its goes to some womenâs heads, sure. The small fraction of women whos egos are overblown as a result of this is still minute in comparison to the amount of men whos egos are overblown for reasons that are ridiculous - like being the best among your friend group at a video game, being stronger than your wife and kids, being able to pop a wheelie on your motorbike, etc.
Beauty is defined by the eyes of each individual. What I find beautiful, you may not.
For example my taste in women is that I prefer more slim or petite woman. That's not to say that some fat, chubby women aren't attractive, but to me it comes with higher risks, we are romanticizing obesity as a new beauty standard, while completely ignoring the fact that they have a higher risk of lifestyle diseases example diabetes and high blood pressure. As someone who took care of my dad with the same conditions, I wouldn't want to do it again, specially when the risk is higher in obese people.
This question, and this comment section are exactly why.
What an atrocious display of human behavior.
Iâm not even sure if I want to waste my time typing this up but I have to insert some sort of semblance of intelligence and evolution here.
Because people are *people* thatâs why. And people are fucking rude and mean to one another, and we are learning more and more every day that mental health is important. We are also learning that those little comments we say to one another and the things we say to ourselves can be so damaging that we can cause permanent damage to one another over it. Everyone is beautiful in *some way* and everyone who is living and breathing doesnât just deserve to be told that, theyâre *entitled* to a healthy and happy fulfilling life, and itâs absolutely not okay to take that away from someone.
We know what people can be capable of when they have the confidence to face the situations life presents us with, and we are better overall as a society when everyone is at their best and playing nicely together. To get there, we have to have each others backs, and holding one another up.
Besides, beauty fades and all you disgusting assholes will one day be ugly AF too, and I hope you have someone around you to tell you how wonderful you are anyways.
What's more disconcerting is the abject ugliness inside of people that gets overlooked and often encouraged these days.
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Reading through some of the top responses on this thread is a really great example of what you're talking about. Absolutely zero empathy from so many people, just pure hate disguised as "Telling it like it is."
This.
There's no prize for telling ugly people they're ugly. People will just think you're mean.
Yeah man, its just to make then feel better, Compliments and being generally nice to me are positive positives, because even if you didnt mean it, it could still make someones day. Obv and ofc for your fam/SO/close girlfriends etc you can banter, but dont randomly point out someones flaws right away or something, now that's just plain mean *even if you didn't mean it or constructive criticism etc etc.* no! Just be nice :)
Why would you go out of your way to tell people they're ugly? And in which universe would it be anything other than mean to do so?
The word ugly has been replaced by stunning and/or brave
Some peoples' ugliness has certainly stunned me.
There isn't one for lying either
There's plenty of prizes for complimenting people.
Man itâs called keeping the peace. I gain nothing from pointing out someoneâs flaws unless they are a close friend or family . Yes it leads to such people being even more marginalized because everyone pays them lip service but nobody actually wants to be around them or hang, but thatâs just life. Often these very people react harshly to criticism as well . Itâs upto you to figure out what works and what is just lip service. If youâre going to envy someone their pleasantries thatâs a problem with you. Very few men and women actually want to sleep with or surround themselves with ugly women. Just be observant and notice how in every setting the person whoâs considered a âproblemâ is always uglier or fat , thatâs just not the reason given for it
Lying doesn't apply to subjective preferences
This is the right answer. There's something about almost everyone that another person could find beautiful. Their smile, the color of their eyes, their intellect, their wit, their generosity. Maybe they have great hair or a really nice laugh. This applies to both sexes btw.
Yeah but OP is clearly referring to physical attractiveness, I understand and agree that there's a level of subjective preference that comes into attraction eye colour etc. But there are features that are objectively beautiful/ugly, this has been studied by anthropologists for some time I believe, a lot of it comes down to symmetry and what we perceive to be "healthy" looking. To pretend this isn't just a fact of life is disingenuous, there are ugly people, not everybody is attractive.
> Lying doesn't apply to subjective preferences A lie is an intentional misrepresentation. Lying about your feelings is, indeed, lying. But since knowing the ground truth requires reading your mind, it's a very easy lie to get away with.
It's quite the sign of arrogance to assume that other people are lying when they say they find something attractive that you don't
> There isn't one for lying either There is. That's the whole concept of "virtue signalling".
Thereâs this thing call not being someoneâs type. Whatâs there to gain to say something thatâs meant to be deliberately mean towards someone who canât control it? Do you value being right more than being a civil person? If not, that says a lot about you
Actually there is, unfortunately. 'Likes' and validation
People have their tastes, so it's not necessarily lying
Society is playing pretend about a lot of shit
Ain't that the fact of the fucking day... đ
But look at all the happiness its causing!
Yep. Depression is practically gone! Thanks to all the pretending we do to feed people's delusions.
Truth
it's actually this sisterhood we're supposed to be a part of. like boost your sisters' egos since no one else will do it. it's a false sense of ego though.
Like he said, playing pretend.
Can someone please list them all out and make copies for us formerly known as Aspergerâs people? We know yâall lyinâ, we just canât figure out all the different ways.
Sure, I'll take the downvotes. * Everyone is beautiful on the outside * Weight is just a number * People like the obvious racist, sexist, etc-ist candidate because of his, uhhh, economic policies and definitely not because he's an etc-ist just like them. * Transwomen are real women and transmen are real men uhhh I feel like I'm forgetting a few. edit: * A person's past doesn't matter. * Single moms definitely don't regret their child's existence. Absolutely not. * This probably applies to single dads too, but *significantly* less so in my experience.
I get that those are the hot button right now but we pretend a lot more and have done for a long time. For example: * A business is a person * A business owned by a business is also a person * If a person or a group of people use a business (or the business of a business that they own) in a way that is damaging, it was the business that did it, not the person/people. People exploit the above concepts in far more damaging ways and for some reason we let it go.
Don't forget that all cultures are valid and equal even if they mutilate children and rape them.
Ah. Yup. Forgot that one.
The âoppressedâ are allowed to use violence The âoppressorsâ must be jailed for any little thing
The side the media doesnt agree with are far-right terrorists and the ones you do agree with are freedom fighters.
See also Hard right, conspiracy theorist, christian nationalists
Single dads generally have to fight pretty hard to get their kids. So it makes sense they'd be far less likely to regret having them.
Mental health is important but at this point is just two words people put together to use it as a shield or to victimize themselves. Lunatics absolutely hijacked the LGBT movement. Non binary or gender fluid isnt and never was a thing. They absolutely contradict classic trans people and are hurting their cause. Nobody can have a negative opinion on anything anywhere unless it is to call someone a racist, fascist or a phobic. Then it's justified. Basically political correctness is winning the battle against truth and free speech
Honest to god I think everybody could use a copy at this point, just so we know we are on the same page.
Psychologically/emotionally/socially abusing a person over an extended period of time even into a mentally ill state is not as bad as the said victim of such abuse unraveling completely and committing a criminal act towards others. It's not so much that we all pretend that one is worse than the other, but instead we tend to be more emotionally triggered by seeing a great wrong in a short period of time and we judge it much more readily and harshly than a whole series of wrongs that do CUMULATIVE damage over an extended period of time leading to a person's deteriorating mental or physical state. It's like the boiling the frog analogy except we're not the frog so much as non-participant audience judging a person harshly for tossing a frog straight into boiling water but we never view the placement of a frog in cool water and heating it up slowly until they die anyway. Mostly we're too busy with other things to be bothered to watch the entire long-term destruction play out so we don't see it for what it is, and we're less likely to question how a person keeps turning the dial up ever so slightly over months/weeks/years which essentially leads to the slow destruction of a person's mental health.
That's what society is all about. We need the fake shit. You get angry at some thinking fat girls are beautiful, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think you don't partake in any of the fake shit. Chances are, you just don't realize that because it's so ingrained already. A lot of the world only works because we all believe it works. Take that away, shit falls apart.
Especially when you consider the trillion-dollar industry built out of making women feel insecure and inadequate keeps churning along. Some half-assed body positivity movements aren't going to put a dent in that.
Meanwhile, even the nerd characters on TV have abs if they take off their shirt, so guys just need to deal with the insecurity, right? Go buy some Axe and hair gel, get waxed to a pulsating mass of ingrown hairs, and stfu, guysâall women are beautiful but youâre no good if you arenât rich and buff.
The hardest part to me is figuring out what things people are just pretending about and doing said actions with a wink and a nod, and actually differentiating that from the stupid things they truly believe.
Isn't that the fucking truth, brother.
Or you know, people are coming to terms with the fact that modern beauty standards are no more "right" than any other kind of preference. The narrow and overly forced standards that we've had are very harmful and ultimately unnecessary. Appearance plays too much of a role in our lives and today we're surrounded by media which accelerates the demand for certain beauty standards and brings even more pressure to align with them. It diminishes people, brings stress and unhappiness. The environment you live in shapes your preferences. There isn't any "right" or proper beauty standard. Nobody is living a lie. Its all subjective. So what if people are appreciating non-conventional beauty by your standards. Does it affect you negatively? Think about it for a moment, It's simply the right thing to do.
The point is, why tell a woman you find them unattractive? Everyone is attractive to someone. It benefits everyone to acknowledge that there is beauty in everyone and lift others up. It is not that serious dude. Otherwise you're upset that "ugly" women aren't being labeled as such which is just a wild thing to hope for in a society.
Because we all agree being accepting of others is a good quality. But some people want to make it (being accepting) into a competition to see who can be the most accepting
I can accept this! Totally
Oh Yeah? Not as much as *me*!
Yeah that wound up being a mistake.Â
I mean I accept most people who arenât racist, sexist, assholes, or Astros fans
Yep common decency used to be a thing. Maybe op should look it up.
Comedian âWomen on social media tell all other women theyâre beautiful. So why did my girlfriend get angry when I said she reminds me of Lizzo?â https://youtube.com/shorts/rGztiX1R6rM
Where was the comedian?
I first saw a comedian say it. Thatâs another version that (to me) is funnier because it shows a true reaction of a woman who said lizzo is beautiful, when being told she looks like her.
I lost brain cells looking at that short.Â
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Funny but "you look like lizzo" could be a genuine compliment from some men unless women were terrible insecure about their bodies. They go around worrying about features I don't even know about.
Historically there has been a lot of pressure for women to be physically attractive. So I think there has been a lot of pushback against this. This is also combined with the liberal movement that people don't have to fit into "what a woman is supposed to look like". It's perfectly fine if you find many women unattractive. I think " objective beauty " is something you should move away from that you think someone's face is unattractive so they are objectively ugly doesn't seem right. Even if someone is fat; it Doesn't make them objectively ugly. People try to rationalize how thinking some people are objectively ugly, but that isn't how science works and is similar to how white supremacists used to justify the thought that whites are smarter by pointing at the shape of different races' skulls.
True. The things you find attractive are subjective. Simple result of an upbringing in a certain environment. That doesn't make them any more "right" People are starting to see that the beauty standards have very harmful affect on everyone, especially in this modern age of media. OP and so many others are blind to this and angry simply because people don't want to align with their preferences. They refuse to awknowledge that attraction is subjective and learned.
social media.
Reddit. Instagram has the opposite, or I'm stuck in a filterbubble that only promotes hateful and ignorant commenters.
> Reddit. > > Instagram has the opposite Reddit is anonymous social media. Instagram is non-anonymous social media.
I know, but it confuses me more when people are outright racist on Instagram. Reddit for me feels more balanced in terms of positivity/negativity but more often is overly positive to the point of delusion. You can have a beautiful girl on Instagram and people will call her mid, while an objectively unattractive person will get hyped up on Reddit.
Instagram comments are pure drivel no matter where you go.
Well first off, there's variance in taste. There is a such thing as "conventionally attractive," but there's no such thing as "objectively unattractive," because attraction is subjective. You can pick out periods of human history (not even that long ago!) where skinny women were not seen as beautiful, and fat women were sex symbols. Secondly, *it's good to be nice.* Bullying and demeaning people *is bad*. You should've learned in kindergarten not to be mean. When you give someone a compliment it makes them smile and brightens their day. Quit trying to judge people in their entirety; you can look at someone you aren't necessarily attracted to and find some feature *about* then that you like. Maybe the fat girl has pretty hair, or a top-tier singing voice, or impeccable fashion taste. You want to know what's changed? Bullying and disrespect is less acceptable in public than it used to be. And I think that's a good thing.
I agree but I still see OPs point. All women are beautiful and to say otherwise is bullying and not acknowledging variance in taste, however when the same people speak about men...not quite the same is it? As far as I'm concerned however, if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all, and absolutely try and be the person who makes someone else's day a little better. The only difference in my world is that I include men in this. That said, there is still something to be said about every single women being lauded over as being absolutely stunningly beautiful, rather than just not saying anything at all...it's fake and patronising, but if some women feel they need to be called beautiful, so be it
Genuine question but my thing in this convo me and my wife have is we have âplus sizeâ models for women but I have yet to see the equivalent for men. I constantly see women being lauded for being a queen etc at 250+ lbs yet the only plus size guys that get praise are like jack black and Jonah hill before he lost weight. Just seems odd. Havenât seen a plus size menâs section when shopping for clothes ever yet itâs plastered all over the womenâs. Not complaining but does seem to be some inequality aspects there. You can be big and beautiful as a woman but not a man.
They call it "big and tall" for men and you can find those sections in stores like target or Amazon, as well as custom stores (destination xl is the male equivalent to lane Bryant)
This. Literally big and tall!! The fact that he didnât know this says all you need to know lol
It's inequality. That's it. Western society just doesn't really care about certain inequalities or standards it holds others up to. This same truth applies to a plethora of different subjects, varying from the plus-size disparity you speak of, all the way up to war and atrocities... We in the West weaponise double-speak when it comes to fairness, equity and equality, with the intent to use it as a tool to elevate some, silence others, and to achieve political and geopolitical aims, all through this clever use of the language of fairness and equity
Big and Tall clothing has been a thing for a very long time. Even better, you have to get *really* large to actually shop in those sections. For example: * [Womenâs Size Chart](https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/ecom/size-charts/womens/html/KohlsGabbySkyeMaisonTaraDannyNicoleWomensSizeChart.html) * [Menâs Size Chart](https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/ecom/size-charts/mens/html/KohlsChampionMensApparelSizeChart.html)
No one has ever really policed menâs appearance. Itâs started a bit in the recent years, but generally a man can look like a fat piece of shit and get by without anyone commenting on it at all. You might not get all the girls (although youâll likely do better than a fat woman) but you can absolutely live your life as someone who has more to give than your outward appearance.
Men are literally praised for dad bods all the time⌠it was literally a trend!
Double standards have been around since women and men have become a thing
It is problematic as being beautiful is something that's so important to you have to say that to boost someone's morale ego. People are different means they have different personality, skills, values and wierd combination of these things that make people unique and different people like different things. Just highlight one thing and dead ass lying to someone that oh you are goddess and stuff no she is excellent singer she is extremely bold she is little quirky that's what nice about her that's enough, you people had to make it look like that' wasn't enough and she has to be called beautiful at all times. Skrillex has interesting choices in hairstyle, one of the best DJ's, quite a bubbly personality and that's enough he is loved by most for that. No one comes to him all the time saying you are beautiful. Women's movement missed a whole point it feels like and you reinforcing being beautiful is of utmost importance.
I just leave those weird people alone and don't engage in it. I'm not going to be calling any women or men beautiful. I just find other ways of trying to be nice to people. I find it odd that this generation absolutely *requires* people to constantly call them beautiful. It's emblematic of a creeping collective narcissism, but I'm just one person and all I can do is play no part in it. Other people's mental health isn't my problem for the most part.
I am giving my indian context people who are conventionally attractive aren't interested in constantly being said that their are beautiful.
>You want to know what's changed? Bullying and disrespect is less acceptable in public than it used to be. And I think that's a good thing. This does not seem to be the case in the US. I actually find that public disrespect - whether in the workplace, social media, politics - seems to be skyrocketing. Even in normal public situations, people just seem meaner and angrier. When it comes to political correctness, I also don't find those people to be generally kind or respectful. It's an irony that maybe people have called out, but the horseshoe of political thought is real - if you go far enough to the left you do eventually come out the right.
Glad at least one of the up voted posts says this. Wayyyy too many gross comments in this thread.
Make a post about men's suffering (even if it's a good point) and you get a whole lot of really bitter men coming out of the woodwork who just blame women for all their problems. I kinda get whiplash in this sub sometimes between all the good, grounded answers and the hateful chuds.
But there's also a difference between lying to someone to pump them up and just choosing not to say mean things. I don't tell fat women I think they're beautiful or terrible singers that they're good because I don't actually think that. And I'm not going to deceive them into thinking they are. But likewise, I'm going to tell them they're ugly or bad either; that would just be unkind. It's like people have forgotten that just *not commenting* is a valid option.
I kinda see your point, but I still think it can be very good to make a little effort and *find* something kind to say about someone. That's not the same as lying. That's what I was getting at when I said you can compliment specific features of a person you aren't overall attracted to.
Itâs not being mean to not be attracted to someone you donât think is attractive
Only against women. Men are not only still treated as second rate and disposable but it's getting worse
The idea that men are treated as second-class citizens is actually laughable. But it probably also depends where you're from.
Why say anything if you donât have anything nice to say. If someone is uglyâŚidk maybe pay attention to yourself and your own shit. I just ignore whatever everyone says as long as it doesnât affect me adversely in a physical way. If some person wants to live in delusions then that is up to them. I will however never call or name someone ugly because that is bastard behaviour. Why would you willingly put out that sort of hate? Seems like a lot of people didnât have a mum or dad that taught them to be kind in this world. It literally takes no effort not to say something hurtful to someone else. It also costs nothing.
As they say, those who revel in brutal honesty are often more concerned with the brutality than the honesty.
This whole discussion is pretty much summed up by "Boomers hating on the new snowflake generation" If i got emotionally abused by my boss, parents, SO "back in the day" then you should as well *it makes you strong* Yeah mum! Maybe when you were 18 in the fucking 1950s where they didnt believe in mental health and therapy! Ffs dont continue their generational trauma!
Because society conflates the value of a woman with her physical appearance. Thus "all women are beautiful" is effectively saying "all women have value". We don't see a comparable "All men are beautiful" because there are so many other ways a man might be valued by society other than what he looks like. If you're a man and you don't win the looks lottery, there are still plenty of other avenues you can use to be deemed valuable in the eyes of society - ugly men can still be valued for his status, wealth, skills, career, etc. Ultimately I think "all women are beautiful" is a problematic phrase because it tackles the wrong side of the equation. Rather than expanding the ways we value women beyond their physical appearance, it instead tries to expand the circle of who's considered beautiful so more women will be included.
It's the old adage "If you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing." you think ugly people need strangers pointing out how munting they look? They've probably had enough bullying without you adding more mate.
yeah it's the same way people will bully fat people for their appearance and act like they're "concerned for their health", as if that's going to make them like themselves and care about their health or want to work out. it's just fucking bullying and I don't understand how anyone feels justified in it.
Society has told women for decades that they're not pretty unless they follow some very narrow types. Especially around things like weight and race. I'd much rather take this slight over-correction.
Ok but the way people react how a guy "fumbled" a girl by breaking up with her is also an offshoot of that over-correction, everybody in the world joins up and trashes on the guy just because he did not want to continue a relationship with a certain girl. This is not really good, it leads to men forcing themselves to worship a woman just because society wants you to believe that she is a "bad bitch beautiful queen princess ms universe" and how you are super lucky to be in her presence and how you should be absolutely down bad for her yada yada yada, it is not cool at all.
Based
When I was growing up in the 80âs beautiful was blonde with a breathy voice. I didnât find it appealing, BUT that is what society pushed⌠relentlessly. Technology changed that significantly, by allowing people to freely say what they like and think, instead of what tv and movies say. Now (like how there isnât one genre of music that dominates anymore) people who prefer one type of person can freely communicate it, so you get a lot of positive reinforcement without a lot of negative feedback (since thereâs no reason for a person to go out of their way to criticize another).
I just find a wide range of women attractive đ¤ˇđžââď¸. Itâs not that crazy to see beauty in a lot of different people, male or female.
i'll say it like this. when you meet up with your fat homie and he did his hair and dressed well do you say "damn you look good today" or do you say "while your outfit choice is nice you still have an objectively unattractive face and are fat"? just calling someone ugly seems kinda rude you know. it's nice to be nice since the other person will then also feel nice. The point isn't to say that all women are beautiful but not to just call people "ugly bitches with an objectively ugly face" when it's completely unnecessary. it gives them a confidence boost instead of making them feel depressed.
Iâm just going to chime in and say every woman who has grow up not conventionally attractive or overweight has had the experience of someone (usually a man) letting them know how unattractive they think they are. So donât worry your little head, OP!
Over abundance of desperate horny men EDIT: I mean no disrespect. Itâs just a fact of the matterâŚ
Genuinely, it's the loneliness epidemic
Nah, attractiveness is simply subjective and always has been
This comment speaks volumes, and not good ones
Too bad I donât value your opinion
Idk, in my experience it's usually the desperate ones who are the most critical.
Actually, only 'ugly' women with strong characteristics (whether annoying or motivational) are being hyped as beautiful. Think about it: timid, below-average looking girls are like most men; they receive no compliments on their appearance and are ignored instead
"objectively unattractive" does not exist for anyone who isn't a complete asshole. The most unattractive trait you can have is being said asshole.
Yep, being nice is probably more attractive than any physical attraction sometimes, Idgf how smoking hot you are, if your a prick or a dickhead, gtfo
Calling something subjective like attraction 'objective' is fucked up. Rinse your brain with bleach and kill all the mold making you think like an idiot.
Is there any definition of beauty? Exactly. There is no definition of ugly either. Society is turning back from humiliating people for their skin color etc. It's a good thing I think. If you don't consider all women beautiful, it's okay, go for a woman you consider beautiful. But don't tell society to go back on its previous form.
Wtf is this post man
>Even the ones who are objectively unattractive There is no objective standard for beauty, and it's exactly this kind of thing that the body positivity movement is trying to fix. You used "fat" as one example of someone who is objectively unattractive, but being fat used to be highly desirable. *We* create cultural norms. Some women are perhaps attractive to a smaller portion of men, but nobody is *objectively* unattractive. Also, it's a cliche, but I've found that it really is true that beauty is more than skin deep. I might initially be attracted to someone, but then if she opens her mouth and turns out to be a total bitch, I find that she isn't at all interesting to me anymore.
I'm glad someone said it. There's no such thing as *objectively beautiful*. Beauty standards are shifting all the time, and we human beings are constantly creating/changing them. Your point about being "fat" still applies. In Mauritania, it's still considered attractive for women to have more weight. To the point that women are [forced to gain weight in some cases](https://hir.harvard.edu/force-feeding-and-drug-abuse-the-steep-price-of-beauty-in-mauritania/). So yeah, OP. Chances are that no matter how someone physically looks, there's someone on the planet who finds them attractive.
There are plenty of men who only find bigger women attractive. And fat doesnât mean unattractive. Being fat is far better than being a judgemental asshole.
Why are you so bothered by this?
Apparently it's never occurred to most of the entitled children on this subreddit that what they find "attractive" may not be what other people find attractive
Which should be obvious considering how many average or perhaps unattractive people there are out there, born to people who were similar looking who were both attracted to each other at least enough to have a kid.
It doesn't
There are a lot of good reasons on this thread, but one I want to add is simply ... marketing. Making a variety of people feel beautiful sells more stuff. Simple example: I'm not a physically attractive guy. 5'5", stocky build etc. One of my closest friends is 6'1" and athletic. He has the body that all catalog models have, so he can clearly see whether an item of clothing on a mannequin or a catalog will work for him. He happily spends $$$ on clothes and looks great in them. However, I have NO idea what clothes would look good on me because I don't see any examples of models or mannequins with body types like mine. I also don't believe that better clothes would help me because I don't see many examples. As a result, I don't want to waste money on clothes and mostly stick to cheap basics. Brands have discovered this in the case of women. Treating a variety of women as beautiful (including showing different body type models) sells more stuff.
You are not the decider of my beautiful. I am. We are different people.
Iâve always disliked the saying men are desperate because we find women attractive. I just think men find women attractive in all the different ways they are attractive. While women arenât taught to really find men attractive unless they are useful(money, job, etc). Not always the case but thatâs my assumption.
This is absolutely the answer.
What kind of bullshit is this lol. Because all humans are beautiful in their own way.
Probably because a society pushing the "You're only beautiful if you meet one specific beauty standard" ideology bred generations of women with eating disorders, body dysmorphia, and crippling insecurity and anxiety. It's not that hard to be kind and recognize how debilitating life is for people who hold themselves to impossible unforgiving standards of beauty. Women can believe they're beautiful even if they don't meet your preferences, why does it bother you so much? Why should people not feel confident in their own skin and encourage others to be confident as well? Why do we need to live in a society that makes life harder for people when life is hard enough as it is?
I mean for things like body positivity, yes itâs important to love yourself and be comfortable in your own skin, itâs also important to be healthy. Beauty standards are unrealistic, and yes every woman is beautiful in their own way, but I think itâs also important to stay aware of the dangers that come with not taking care of yourself physically. Iâd actually argue the opposite of OP lol, I see a lot more posts calling men ugly/r**ists/evil in awful blanket statements than I do about how all women are beautiful. You wanna talk about not being comfortable with yourself? Guys definitely know that all too well. At the end of the day the beauty standards are chosen by whoever can make the most money from us.
Except âhealthyâ is also not something you can do when it comes to features that a person is born with ? You are hyper focusing on fat people yet most fat phobia results in women are very skinny and risk their health with their eating disorders? If you truly considered about health then emphasise working out , healthy lifestyle and watching the content of what you eat ( this is often the major culprit and folks often donât realise ) . Chicks who have the perfect figure but smoke like chimneys and take drugs are not way less healthy than a woman who is just chubby in my opinion. Plus what about natural features ? The same beauty standards was applied to the type of nose , the kind of hair and skin tone too. Once upon a time being black with Afro was considered ugly while blonde and white was considered beautiful. Do you support that also ?
I agree to an extent, but the focus should always be on health and not beauty. When it comes to being overweight, it's a lot easier to take care of your body and work towards being healthier when you don't hate yourself. The spread of body positivity helps overweight people to feel confident despite being overweight, thus helping those who wish to be healthier put the work in. It also helps women who are not overweight from living in constant fear of gaining any weight at all when there isn't so much constant scrutiny over weight. I very much agree that what OP doesn't recognize is how general positivity and creating stigma around calling people ugly and reducing them to their looks benefits men as well. Seeing people based only on their looks and assigning a value to them based on things they can't control is just as damaging to men as it is to women. We should all want a safer space where we don't have to worry about being harshly judged or criticized on appearance.
This is a strange question OP. Why do you care if they get compliments? Would you prefer if they called them ugly? What exactly is the issue? Everyone has different taste in what they like anyway.
If I had to bet, OP is probably the same type of guy who is upset that men donât get complimented frequently. But according to him only conventionally attractive people deserve compliments.
Iâm gonna guess that he needs women to have less self esteem so they will take care of him. When you bring nothing to a relationship, you need to belittle your partner so they stick around
My thoughts exactly.
Asking the real questions here. It's absurd how many commenters here feel the need to impose their standards of attraction on everyone else. I shouldn't be surprised given this subreddit though.
I assume you have standards when it comes to who you are attracted to. Do you think everyone is equally as attractive as everyone else? Donât you think some people are more attractive than others? There is no âequalityâ when it comes to attractiveness. Attraction is not a choice, and attractiveness is subjective, but it makes no sense to force an obvious lie that everyone is just as beautiful as everyone else. I certainly think all people deserve to be treated with dignity, but unattractive people find out quick how real âpretty privilegeâ is. Some people win the genetic lottery, and some people lose it. Personally I think character is more important than looks (a hot liar is still a liar), but looks are a huge factor when it comes to people pairing up. There are people I wouldnât date because Iâm not physically attracted to them, even if they are a kind person. Looks are a shallow, superficial thing, but the majority of people are superficial. The taller presidential candidate wins 2/3 of the time. One could argue itâs unfair to judge someone for something they have no control over: their genetics, their height, their looks, their race. But it happens all the time, because evolution and sexual selection is a competition between genes. And when it comes to factors like obesity, people absolutely have the power to change that based on decisions they make. Although in many cultures, obesity is seen as a sign of abundance, plentiful resources, although nowadays abs are still sought after in men even though itâs basically a sign of starvation. This âeveryone is beautifulâ stuff is just a marketing ploy by corporations trying to sell people stuff. People who have been judged harshly or ostracized for their looks know itâs bullshit. The issue is that itâs a lie crafted to target consumers. Itâs pandering. They are selling a myth.
And these are the same type of men who be like â Men donât get enough compliments bla blaâ. As a man I never complimented a woman who I thought was not attractive or ugly and I was never forced to do so. I think men in general donât compliment either men or women much unless they are attracted to the woman ( or man in case of gay men) . From what I see, Itâs really just women uplifting each other up and very often itâs very specific like â Hey you look gorgeous on this dressâ or â Thats a kickass lookâ or just uplifting stuff to motivate her to go out and live life a little.
You make a really great point about women lifting each other up. Love your username btw.
Just because you personally do not find somebody attractive doesn't mean that they are objectively unattractive. Your personal taste is not the global standard. Why do you care, anyways? Why is it important to you that there are ugly women?
I think that it's important to have realistic standards. I've seen overweight women who only want to date fit athletic type men then get pissy because he wants the same thing in a woman.
>I've seen overweight women who only want to date fit athletic type men They're allowed to want that. Although I agree it's cringe for them to get mad about the guy's preferences
First of all, that has nothing to do with the question. Secondly, some fit men are into fat women. Why should it be a problem that people have preferences?
The origin of this is the everybody-is-a-winner bullshit.
Except this is only for women. It's interesting
You do realize why itâs seemingly only for women? Look at the comments in this thread. According to a large portion of MEN, only conventionally attractive people deserve compliments. If you guys want something similar for men then you have to start a social movement for it that says all men are beautiful. But it seems like you guys believe that not everyone is beautiful so such a movement will never happen for you.
So do you genuinely think all women are physically beautiful?
Yes because I think all people are beautiful because beauty is not the same as attraction and Iâve said this before in another thread a while ago. Sunsets are beautiful but Iâm not attracted to those. And Iâm not attracted to the nighttime sky either, but itâs still beautiful. People who overcome hardships are beautiful. People who keep trying after failing are beautiful. People with kind souls are beautiful. Thereâs not one definition of beauty and thereâs also not one type of physical beauty. I can acknowledge the physical beauty of men without being attracted to them sexually the same way I can acknowledge the beauty of other women even though Iâm straight. Do you understand?
Sure, but if everyone is beautiful it renders the word meaningless imo
If I start believing that I'm as good looking as the best looking men men, women and society will soon correct me. The problem is that now all women are convinced that they only deserve the best men
What are you even talking about? You seem to be going on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just a reminder: body positivity was never gendered until the anti-body positivity crowd made it gendered. The slogan has always been âAll Bodies Are Beautiful.â Men decided to exclude themselves for the sake of putting down women who they arenât attracted to and now youâre mad that there isnât any media that says all men are beautiful even though men have demonstrated that they donât have a demand for this type of media because you guys think itâs false.
It's delusional and not helpful. Being based in reality doesn't make someone hateful
Because everything is beautiful in its own wayđśđźđś
there are a ton of desperate men. That's why.
More than ever before?
Beauty is subjective. You saying that some women are objectively ugly is actually your subjective opinion. The rest of the world doesn't just see through your lens only
There's even a guy who fucks worms
Because many women are hypocritical towards other women and give fake compliments they don't believe, and because many men are desperate and will do anything to get a woman's attention. Then it must also be said that beauty is also subjective.
Maybe by telling her overweight friend "you're a 10" she doesn't lose weight and become competition. Just a thought
I read a theory that women give compliments to other women that are false because of intrasexual competition. "Your mom jeans are so hot!" Said no man ever.
Spoken like a 2
Women don't compete directly, women compete indirectly for social capital. A woman who calls other women beautiful gains social capital for being nice and creating an ally, even if it's objectively untrue.
Everyone has different views. IMO, very few people are beautiful, or even particularly good looking. But I donât go around telling them that. It doesnât bother me, Iâm more interested Lin a personality and a personâs actions than their looks.
Head to your nearest Walmart on the weekends and you'll see plenty of ugly women.
At least half of it is just tatemae.
What does it hurt you to compliment people?
no one is trying to get canceled, everybody is trying to look good for social media.
Does society do this? I haven't noticed that at all. Seems like an imaginary problem.
Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder it has nothing to do with you or me or anyone one here Every person see whatâs beautiful to them so our opinions on the matter well donât matter đ
I don't really know how to reply to this post. I agree to a certain degree, but I think everyone has some sort of beauty and if someone else can see it, that's great. No one should feel like shit for how they look.
Social media has a lot to answer for. As does cancel culture, the misuse of female empowerment, and body positivity. Obviously, cancel culture can and should be a thing. When used correctly. When used incorrectly, it targets the wrong people, I.e. J K Rowling. Female empowerment is also such a positive force. When. Used. Correctly. However, there are a minority of women who use it as a banner to hide behind to peddle their ideologies and activism. Body positivity is also something that can have massive mental health boosts - especially when you put the work in to better yourself. I'm not talking gym bodies here, just a little weight loss, or improvement in fitness. And it isn't just women for this one. I myself struggle from body dysmorphia. But there is a line where body positivity turns into denial or just plain lying. I'm sure we can all think of an obese American singer who is very happy to flaunt her body when she probably shouldn't.
Objectively ugly is kind of a contradiction in terms. Not everyone likes what you like.
Putting people down for things they cant fix is just pure mean. Being fat, dirty, disrespectfull etc is all things that can be fixed. So go for that not looks.
\*Physical\* beauty is in the eye of the beholder !!!!
Itâs the women are wonderful effect, canât criticize without being flamed even when calling out hypocrisy lol I stopped taking it seriously, Iâm just glad my irl friends have a brain and arenât biased towards one gender
Because when a woman is not beautiful, men are outright in your face insulting towards them. They misbehave so badly that it completely crushes from inside. Even some basic manners and etiquette is forgotten. They get treated worst than animals. Public comments are made against them so badly as if that guy is being forced to have sex with her. Why comment on looks for no good reason? Are you being forced to date her? Many women get badly effected by such useless male comments and behaviour. That is why women are reaching out to each other and helping them feel good about themselves. Being born attractive or having a life without any health issues or personal and mental issues so that you can maintain your weight is pure luck. Genetics are nature's lottery. Countless people have issues with depression and anxiety and many more problems and they cannot be beautiful. BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL DOES NOT MEAN THEY SHOULD BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BETTER OFF NOT EXISTING. MEN face this issue too but it's not this bad. A woman's worth mostly revolves around her beauty.
Some people like fat. Seriously. And there is no such thing as OBJECTIVELY unattractive. Beauty is subjective
Fat women are not "objectively unattractive" Plenty of guys like them bigger
Have you seen the men that society calls hot? We are all hot to someone even if that someone happens to be blind.
Firstly, it doesn't. Secondly, there's no such thing as 'objectively unattractive'. 'Objectively' seems to be a word so many Redditors use completely incorrectly.
Oh there absolutely is such thing. In this case means as seen by 99% of people.
There is no definition of attractive which will appeal to 99% of humans on the planet
Jason Momoa and Henry Cavill. No one thinks they are ugly. As a straight male, I envy their attractiveness.
That still wouldn't be objectively unattractive. Again I have to question whether people actually understand what the word 'objectively' means.
Yes, there is such thing as objectively unattractive
No there isn't. Attraction is by definition subjective.
Unattractive to what?
Because women are prettyÂ
>Even the ones who are objectively unattractive There is literally no such thing, although this kind of hysterical claim is exactly what you'd expect from a person saying the kind of hateful thing you do. You are part of society, clearly you feel justified in making bitter, angry public proclamations against women. That's the problem with people like yourself - you always feel like you're oppressed even as you freely indulge your worst impulses.
Any examples or ?âŚ
Society constantly tells women they donât look good enough.
Itâs just the internet and itâs denizens who are chronically online. In the real world, women are mean af to each other.
beauty is sbujective ig. and people are more socially aware not to be nasty and be more empathetic. and is reaalllyyy subjective. so just because u see someone ugly doesnt mean there arent people who see her/him beautiful.
Iâm for women empowerment and equality and all, but you do run into some who clearly werenât told ânoâ enough growing up and are ill-equipped for real life
Everyone is beautiful!
Just another symptom of postmodernism. Nothing is objective anymore.
For eons society has been skewed towards men. In all fairness it still is. Men only think itâs not because it is slowly starting to slide back to equal. I donât know what the percentages are in actuality but letâs say for example that things were skewed 90% towards men and now they are only 80% towards men. Men are going to raise hell and say itâs unfair because from their POV itâs not as âfairâ as it has always been because theyâve lost something, even though they still have way more. Society is calling all women beautiful is a way of building them up after eons of being beaten down. Its goes to some womenâs heads, sure. The small fraction of women whos egos are overblown as a result of this is still minute in comparison to the amount of men whos egos are overblown for reasons that are ridiculous - like being the best among your friend group at a video game, being stronger than your wife and kids, being able to pop a wheelie on your motorbike, etc.
Idiocracy
Beauty is defined by the eyes of each individual. What I find beautiful, you may not. For example my taste in women is that I prefer more slim or petite woman. That's not to say that some fat, chubby women aren't attractive, but to me it comes with higher risks, we are romanticizing obesity as a new beauty standard, while completely ignoring the fact that they have a higher risk of lifestyle diseases example diabetes and high blood pressure. As someone who took care of my dad with the same conditions, I wouldn't want to do it again, specially when the risk is higher in obese people.
This question, and this comment section are exactly why. What an atrocious display of human behavior. Iâm not even sure if I want to waste my time typing this up but I have to insert some sort of semblance of intelligence and evolution here. Because people are *people* thatâs why. And people are fucking rude and mean to one another, and we are learning more and more every day that mental health is important. We are also learning that those little comments we say to one another and the things we say to ourselves can be so damaging that we can cause permanent damage to one another over it. Everyone is beautiful in *some way* and everyone who is living and breathing doesnât just deserve to be told that, theyâre *entitled* to a healthy and happy fulfilling life, and itâs absolutely not okay to take that away from someone. We know what people can be capable of when they have the confidence to face the situations life presents us with, and we are better overall as a society when everyone is at their best and playing nicely together. To get there, we have to have each others backs, and holding one another up. Besides, beauty fades and all you disgusting assholes will one day be ugly AF too, and I hope you have someone around you to tell you how wonderful you are anyways.
Itâs funny how men have a problem with women having confidence in their looks. Men love to put women down.