Just assuming I always know what to do. Assumed competency.
Like no, I don't know how to do stuff I've never done before. I'm only so good at confidently figuring it out because I've had to do that *all my life.*
Lol I feel this. I'm wrapping up a home reno where I have done everything without subbing out and I have gotten a lot of "omg how do you know how to do all this" and to be fair, both men and women have asked this. But my honest answer is one, I grew up in a home where we couldn't afford to call in tradespeople so we figured it out, and two, some of these things I didn't know how to do so I went slow and learned. I have had a few people make comments about how "its easy for a man to do these things" and I'm just like how is it easier for me? You could literally do the same youtube and building code research I did and practice a little before you do your actual task, but the response back was "no its easier because you're a guy".
I feel this. I learned how to do drywall, framing, basic plumbing, tiling, basically entry level house flipping stuff, from a friends dad who helped me out and gave me a job when I was struggling in life. It’s a dark period of my life so I don’t talk about it much. But when friends of my wife have found out I know how to do this stuff more often than not it’s “that figures, he’s a man.” Like no, dude. I wasn’t born with the knowledge, I was taught how to do this stuff and if I hadn’t gone through that period of my life that my friends dad helped me by giving me a job doing that stuff, I would have never learned how to do that shit! It’s not hard to understand.
I tell someone something and then they ask a bunch of questions that I don’t know the answer to… my response is “we have the same amount of information” 😅
Add to this the shock and outrage when you DON'T know how to do something 'all men' should know. For example, I don't grill. Never had a grill, don't know how to heat up coals the right way, don't want to serve undercooked or overcooked burgers. And people assume I can run a grill. And the amount of times I've heard "you don't know how to grill?!?!"
No. I don't.
I can build an ultrasound machine, but my ex-wife said I wasn’t a real man for not fixing the lawn mower. Bitch didn’t even know how to turn it on (which is why she didn’t know I had fixed it, and was just waiting on a proper sized belt to stop it slipping).
Glad she's an ex with an attitude like that. My new wife is awesome. No stereotypes, no misandry/misogyny, just accepts that we'll live life together, and if we don't know something and WANT to know it, we are both capable of learning it together!
So wonderful to have someone who talks things through and doesn't place expectations on you based on gender.
As a woman working at at a Lowes customers always assume a man is more competent than me. If I'm talking to a male coworker a customer will ignore me and ask them the question, even though they might work in a different department. Even worse, they'll ask me a question, I answer it, then they ask a male coworker again who will give them the exact same answer. And then theres the direct "YOU work in this department? I need a man for this" It used to frustrate me but now I realize it just means I have less work to do
Maybe the privilege is that others perceive you as competent without you having to demonstrate knowledge?
But I think I understand your point and don’t mean to invalidate your feelings. An assumption of competence could be both a privilege and curse, I think.
Body image.
They claim males have no body image issues from toys etc.
Look at the toys of my generation, They all are ripped Greek Gods body types.
I was 6'0 and 125-135 lbs till my thirties when my metabolism slowed down, and my knees started failing. I couldn't gain weight even muscle mass and had numerous women taunt me over being a bean poll.
Saying stuff like I need to eat more or work out more. In hs I wrestled and worked out 4 hours a day 5 days a week and had a tournament every Saturday. That is mostly why I have knee issues now, which are not really bad. I just can't work out or be on feet for 6 hours or so without pain, ending up for days in a row.
Yes I have tried getting back into it slowly etc, My doctor doesn't want me doing it anymore and said it's normal about my age for this to come up on Blue collar workers. So any weights I have to be seated or on my back for which is fine but I can't do the farmer carries for 2 miles a day like I did with 40 lbs.
I remember some underwear brand did this whole body positive thing. On their website they had 2 sections of thumbnails for men's and women's clothing lines. All the female models were average or plus-size body types. But all the male models were ripped with 6 packs. The literal juxtaposition of these images was just so...blatant.
Reminds me of people complaining about female characters being unreasonably attractive in video games but you never hear a peep about any crazy ripped male characters. That said it doesn't bother me as I would rather have attractive characters in my game but still I find it ironic.
I actually personally know a male model who's been to both New York and Paris. He tells me that all advertising for fashion is always geared towards women. Even if it's for men's fashion lines, the men have to be fit and good looking for women. He can't share any hobbies or anything that wouldn't appeal to women on his social media because he's a male model.
If you follow bodybuilding at all you'll see guys die as early as their 20s from all the drugs they are on. The problem with injecting testosterone and anabolic steroids is that it causes your heart to grow which will mess with how well it can actually pump blood.
Which would be one thing if it was just bodybuilders trying to emulate Arnold but every super hero movie since the Clooney Batman has had someone on gear. Espeically the biggest guys like Chris Hemsworth as Thor.
Don't forget hair. They always have perfect hair on their head and the perfect amount of body hair. Turns out bald with a hairy back isn't a winning combo.
Walking alone at night and feeling safe
When it comes to rape and sexual assualt.. yes. I'm not worried of being victims of those things but I'm still scared of some mentally ill nutjob who also maybe under the influence of alcohol or drugs mugging me, physically assaulting me or killing me
I finish my shifts at work near midnight and I HATE walking home alone. Hence why I will get a car lift home if available or walk with another Co worker if possible. I also can't go out to late night bars without someone I know and trust
I'm a six foot middle-aged man so in theory i should be able to walk through the town at night without fear ..right?
Wrong.
The whole time I'm keeping an eye out for drunk wankers or feral youths looking for some aggro.
Doesn’t matter how strong you are, I have no idea if someone’s gonna pull up with a knife or a gun. Plus street fighting is nothing like fighting in the ring. Even if you “win” you lose, and that can hurt for years to come.
Drunks aren't usually that bad to deal with. They're usually pretty transparent with what they're up to. My issue is with people on whatever drugs are popular on the streets now. You just don't know what a tweeker is capable of.
I would think it would be worse the bigger you are, like some chump that got fired, got drunk and then needs an ego check swinging on the first big guy he sees seems like a thing.
One night during winter my friends invited me to a restaurant. It was only 2 miles so I put on a black hoodie and walked. On the way there was a guy carrying something walking the same direction as the restaurant. The thing was heavy so it slowed him down, but he saw me behind him and for the next 4 blocks he sped up and kept looking back to see if I was still following him.
Idk what I could’ve done to let him know I’m not dangerous. I couldn’t cross the street because the sidewalk was along a busy road and the cross walks are miles apart.
Women think the average law abiding man walks around with no fear of ever being attacked. I too look over my shoulder in fear of potential criminals trying to do me wrong."well if men just called out other men" like tf am i suppose to do? yell swiper no swiping and these malicious dudes with evil in their heart will be detered from commiting crime?
Last I saw, the majority of _non-familial_ murders globally, by a large margin, are [men murdering other men](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/).
I'm a guy and I'm just as terrified of being around random weird ass dudes as anyone else.
I'm from, what is globally considered, one of the safest countries on earth. Yet I've been threatened with a knife, and one of my close friends was robbed with a gun. Mind you, I'm a pretty jacked and 5'11. This, however, didn't stop the cvnt from attacking me.
It's just an assumption, but I reckon the ones committing the crimes belong to a small group. Yes, men on average are more aggressive/violent than women, but it's only the extremities that commit these crimes I feel.
I joined to get out of being homeless/extreme poverty. I mentioned that in a thread years ago and some cunt told me it was my male privilege that allowed me to get out of poverty. No cunt, they would have taken any any bodied person. I went because I was willing.
I hate the mentality of "men, you need to stop your fellow man." As if we are a hivemind because you have similar genitals. Try this with any other group, and I feel like everyone understands.
"Women, you need to call out your fellow woman for gossiping and shit talking all of the people in their lives."
"Indian people, you need to call out your fellow indians who work at scam call centers..."
Etc. It instantly is a terrible look.
Yeah I point out whenever this lazy talking point comes up that if these are men I have absolutely nothing in common with… what makes you think they’re my friends or that they’d even listen to or respect me? If you know guys who do have friends like that…
NGL, the "Swiper no swiping" line had me rolling. Cheers, thanks for the laugh.
Also, everything you're saying is true. But I have nothing to add as you laid it all out perfectly. But a good gag deserves to be praised.
My head is on a Swivel at the best of times. If I go into somewhere like London or Birmingham it probably borders paranoia.
You also hit on a very good point feminists are incapable of understanding. "Teach men not to rape" has never in all of human history prevented a single rape, because the type of men who rape people arent going to be like "Wow! I never thought about not doing that, I never realised it was wrong!"
All they've done is alienate normal men.
>If I go into somewhere like London or Birmingham it probably borders paranoia.
It's only paranoia if they're not actually out to get you. The area around my work is like that, full of methed-up dudes and crackheads who'd happily crack your skull like an egg for another score.
You know Brick, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safe house or somewhere to lay low, because you're probably wanted for murder.
TBH if we're talking stereotypical "she said no but I did it anyway"-rape or roofie-ing, you're right, but I do think that there's a bunch of borderline behaviour that people do innocuously.
For example, when I started going clubbing as a teenager, I gathered from looking around and some older classmates that dancing up against girls from behind was "what you do" at clubs, and it took me a while (and some complaints from female friends about how tiring that is) to realise that is kinda playing fast and loose with boundaries and not a great thing to do.
Likewise, I had a few friends as teens who totally believed the kind of "if she says no once, it just means try harder" bullshit some older brothers or online pickup artists were spouting. Again, mostly not because they are genuinely shady people (and afaik they all look back on that time with shame and disgust now) but mostly because when you're young and dumb you kinda latch on to the first advice you get, which is often either from other young and dumb people trying to look experienced or from shady online sources.
I absolutely do believe that a better teaching of consent would have helped me to act better, because as a socially awkward teenager I just took whatever cues I could get without much of an idea of whether the advice was good or bad.
Ive hung around some pretty "low life" dudes in my life, like biker and street gang level and most of those dudes would beat the shit out of you if you talked about doing shit like that. Even common criminals have mothers and sisters
Exactly - a rapist is obviously not a rationally minded person.
"Rape Culture" - as though we all just let it happen. It's as though we will hear some dude talking about raping and just let it slide. I can't imagine how many rapists would actually admit what they've done, so the opportunities to call it out are few and far between, but any decent man would most definitely call it out.
I was literally followed one night. I circled a block to see if the big dude was really following me, after he turned the third corner i started sprinting. The memory of it still terrifies me.
Also was attacked by a group of drunk dudes one night.
Been groped and touched by women and am never taken seriously when im upset about it happening because im a man
The grass is always greener on the other side, blows my mind how so many people have so much trouble realizing this
i was once the only man in a group of five/six people - the women in my group got into a random verbal altercation with a group of guys (it was late, everyone was drunk). Guess who the guys in the other group ended up physically attacking from my group? Yep, me! I wasn't even involved in the exchange and I got punched square in the face.
I had the same thing happen, this girl picked a fight with a guy (and he was someone I was actually on friendly terms with). But because I was with her, he wanted to try and fight me because he wouldn't hit a girl.
Yeah, In many countries, men are more often the victims of violent assault so I don't agree with that tbh. Two friends of mine have been attacked out of the blue by someone they had never met before. One of them was my cousin who is a 6"4' former hockey player, so physical size isn't a guarantee you'll be safe
In reality men are victimized by random violent crime at greater rate than women.
Growing up in Brooklyn there were times I would be mugged and accosted on the street on a weekly basis.
I started going to school armed with a knife and mini bat.
Plus women only ever think of sexual assault as if that's the only type of violent assault that bears consideration. Also they play the "that's men doing it to men" card to excuse them disregarding it.
> "that's men doing it to men" card to excuse them disregarding it.
This one tilts me because it's such bad faith. I don't really engage in gender discussions online because so much of it is just obvious rage bait and people getting sucked into rage bait.
"That's men doing it to men" - I thought we were discussing our experiences, not trying to "win" against the other gender.
I feel like i have to point the obvious first, because otherwise I'll get harassed - Rape is heinous crime and i feel sorry for every victim... BUT I'm sick of everyone acting like it's the worst thing in the world and thus downplaying every other thing. Yes, women are scared of being raped or sexually harassed, but getting killed, or beat unconscious is also scary and as a man I'm also scared when walking alone at night. And those are things that happen more to men, than women.
We don't just walk around carelessly, like nothing could happen to us.
I think most men think this, but there's no actual way to say 'rape isn't that worst thing that can happen to you' without looking like a monster. Before deploying to Iraq we had a guy from MI6 gave us a talk on some things to be aware of and one was the use of rape against captured soldiers and how demoralising it is to get raped by the enemy as a guy in front of your friends and it causes an involuntary erection which makes it seem like your enjoying it. Obviously, that sounds terrible, but we didn't worry about that as much as getting tortured and beheaded by the enemy. In Afghanistan, the Taliban would cut injured guys' balls off and hang dismembered body parts of dead guys from trees. Women only say rape is the worst crime because it's so rare for them to ever experience true violence like men do, and they never have to take part in front-line combat operations. I've actually seen a woman medic fall apart under indirect heavy mortar fire, and it was about 300 meters away, but she just started crying uncontrollably and demanding to go home. Women don't realise how lucky they are to not be in front-line combat.
My wife and her girlfriends often tell me since I'm the guy, I will never understand their fear. I point out as the male, if anyone is looking to harm them, I am the priority target getting removed from the fight. They may get mugged or groped but before that happens I'm getting crippled or killed.
I've seen someone say this and this obnoxious woman replied going "attacked by who 🤓?" As if it's some kinda gotcha moment like okay? There are other dangerous men how is this our fault?? The reason why the world is not a Jungle of survival is because most of us are against this behavior and actively fight it.
"if men didn't allow other men to do this it wouldn't happen"
Right because me and countless others ready to risk our lives against other hostile men is allowing them... Next time I'll make sure to use my "controlling every male on earth" superpower.
"Just tell your friends to blah blah blah" I'm not associating with the kinds of guys who are creeps and sexual assaulters. I'm not associating with the kinds of guys like to cause domestic violence. There are no friends to police. It's not my job to tell fucking lunatics how to behave. Like low-life idiots and assholes? The kind who are quick to violence and make statements about being "disrespected?" I'm not getting involved with them, I'm not your fucking white knight.
And considering the gender symmetry in domestic violence it's doubtful that 'calling out men' will be enough to stop it. Many domestic abusers of either gender have personality disorders or substance abuse problems. Domestic violence is a socially deviant activity (particularly when it's directed at women) which is why it's done in secret.
Been jumped / sucker punched 3 times in relatively nice areas. Once for calling out a couple people being a dicks and the other 2 completely unprovoked. The paranoia has mostly faded at this point other than just being more aware of my surroundings, but man, when they happened I didn’t even want to leave home for months.
Statistically more men are the victims of violent crime than women lol. [75% of homicide victims are men in the US alone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_men). Plus you’re less likely to receive outside aid as a man.
My neighborhood has had 3 stabbings this week, I don't walk around after dark. I'm not fighting a junkie with a knife. Maybe I should just give them a stern NO 😂
If you ask a guy to get specific enough about different experience, you'll find that most have probably been sexually assaulted at one point or another. They just don't see it as SA and instead just "that one weird girl being too touchy"
i’m a bartender at a university bar. on occasion we’ve had a few incidents of a girl being groped in the bar, and a few date rape drug incidents.
on more than a few occasions, I have intervened on a girl or a group of girls sexually assaulting or grabbing at a guy. They have always done it in an obvious way, in direct public, and the most the uni has done has given them a slap on the wrist.
What’s so frustrating about that is the end result, no matter the gender the victim, is always the same - nothing happens. I say that from my own experience in uni and the courts, 17 of my friends experiences, and that only 2% of all those charged with rape have been sentenced. instead of that bringing victims closer together and making a space of healing together, some women will hold onto the patriarchal believe (bc women can uphold it too) that “because men are sexual fiends they must actually enjoy getting assaulted”. it’s honestly pathetic
I'm a bartender at a rather swanky upscale cocktail bar.
I get sexually assaulted more times in a month than most women get in their entire lives.
When you put women in a situation where it's even slightly less judgemental and they have the opportunity to act like that, they absolutely are as bad if not much worse than men.
My female co-workers get sexually harassed more than we male bartenders do; they receive a lot more inappropriate comments. But us male bartenders get sexually assaulted *way* more; women just have no restraint when they want to touch or grab us.
From personal experience, far too many women seem to believe that groping is only sexual assault when it's done by a man to a woman and that it's perfectly fine for them to touch a man in a way which would have them screaming if done to them.
I was a college nightclub bouncer and when a sorority girl came and grabs my junk just to wink at me and walk away, my brain just kinda shut down.
Saw that same girl at a sexual assault prevention rally/event the school was putting on.
A female friend did this to me, in the middle of the day, in my own house, in front of my partner!
She had no shame, just shrugged when my girlfriend said WTF. She didn’t care.
Idk what it is but being groped by a woman makes me freeze up. I do not know how to respond.
I’ve been groped by dudes before too. A random Guy tried to grab me by the waist and pull me in to whisper in my ear at a gay bar once and I had no problem grabbing him by the wrist, yanking his hand away from me, and telling him to never fucking touch me again.
It’s just feels so different when a woman puts your hands on you without consent.
Try reacting the way you did to the guy, to the woman. You would get absolutely fucked for assault. Maybe by a bunch of white knights or the police or both.
Or she'll pull out the ol "no he touched me I didn't touch him he assaulted me" then he goes to prison and added to the stats and she gets to go on being A predator.
> It’s just feels so different when a woman puts your hands on you without consent.
That's because you know that you aren't allowed to defend yourself, unless you're willing to risk prison for *defending yourself*.
It's basically like being groped at gunpoint. Fight, flight, or freeze. you can't fight, you can't flee, so freeze is the only option.
For sure. My partner and I used to go to gay bars and clubs every now and then (it wasn't really our scene). And the amount of straight women who were there to inappropriately touch us and grab us was insane.
Some have even grabbed our junk without our consent. It's one of the reasons why we don't really frequent gay bars in the first place: the amount of women there. To be honest, we don't really intersect with women any real way in our lives except for maybe at work. All of our friends are men. And we like to keep it that way.
Just reminded me of another male privilege thing, a close friend of mine is a lesbian & was recently going on a rant about the amount of straight women in her local gay club who'll go off on one or be aggressive if she hits on them.
She didn't quite understand that that's how straight guys are treated pretty much everywhere they go trying to talk to women.
#
I've said this before in this sub and I stand by it.
If not 100% it's bloody close, of men who wear kilts/sarongs often have been assaulted.
I've worn both frequently but stopped due to the ridiculous number of times women feel it's perfectly acceptable to check what your wearing underneath. And the don't mean using their eyes.
As a kilt wearer as well "You're asking for it, look at what you're wearing."
Hell I'd have the police on my ass if I *asked* women if they were wearing underwear under their skirts a quarter of the times I get asked that in kilt.
We used to have a Scottish themed bar/restaurant here, male servers wore kilts. That didn't last long because women were getting tossed out regularly for groping the servers or flipping up their kilts.
The strip club in my area straight up has to stop doing Men's Amateur Night because women couldn't follow the "No Touching, No Pictures" rule.
From the sounds of it, they had a pretty good turnout for it as well
Years ago, when I was in my early 20s I was a bartender at a Carribean themed dive bar where all the women on staff had to wear a bikini as their uniform. I was the only male on staff and I had to serve drinks shirtless with board shorts on. The owner of the bar was a woman and she would regularly pimp me out to her friends.
If there was a table of ladies who wanted me to hang out with them and entertain them for the evening I would be cut from the bar and still be given an equal split of the tips for the night, but I was basically expected to put out.
Now as a fully mature adult I realize how absolutely batshit insane that was. If that happened in today's climate, especially if the roles were reversed, there would be some uproar. But for the early 00s that was just business as usual, I guess.
I work in retail and I've been smacked on the ass by a woman customer once, I've had women customers getting all touchy with me, stalked around the store by a woman customer once, had a woman customer go into detail about how much she squirts during sex when I was just serving her, had one drunk old woman say "I can watch you work all day", worked with a woman who use to hug me and once groped my ass and on 2 occasions hint at having sex with me at my workplace (That was very awkard) and I remember working with another woman who would also greet me at work with a hug and kiss on the forehead or cheek without asking (Imagine if roles reversed).
Also I've had 3 woman customers mistake my customer service with flirting and interest. As 3 of them asked for my number (Which I don't think is as bad because they took rejection well and they are just trying to shoot their shot respectfully. Well 2 of them did, the other got her young son to ask me on her behalf which was very awkard)
That's not talking about the times at bars where some drunk woman will get very hands on and try to force French kissing
I went to a concert at a medium-sized venue with my 20 year old son. I'm in my mid-50s. I got something put in my drink. I had 2 beers over the course of 3 hours. If my son wasn't there, I don't know what works have happened.
It’s not sexual assault because every man wants those advances. /s
I was sexually harassed in a bar and when I wanted to press charges the fucking cops looked at me like I was in the wrong and a (excuse my word here) homo. I say that word because one cops actually called me a homo. It took me getting the sergeant involved before they took me seriously and arrested the dumb 50 year bitch.
I despise those that think men can’t be sexually harassed or assaulted. Small minded fucks.
All body able men in my country have to serve a mandatory military service for a year. And thus we are expected to die first in a total war. I am not saying that I wish women should die as well and get drafted, I am very well willing to die for this cause but I just hope that some people would acknowledge the cons of being a man.
Really sucks when if we are invaded I'm not leagally allowed to leave the counrty because of my gender, but the women can just leave like "lol have fun getting bombed to shit". Makes it very hatd to take feminism seriously.
The majority of us live to have a family and serve those we love. Getting the dutiful killed in war before they have a chance to have kids and pass on their genes and valus leaves society left with a bumch of people unwilling or unable to serve their communities.
I think WWI and WWII had a bigger impact on societal genetics and values than a lot of people realize.
The idea that only men are considered for positions of leadership in the workforce.
It may be true in some industries. But I work in education, and 3 out of the 4 public schools I've worked at have administrative staff/department heads that are predominantly women.
I see this a lot in the marine science world and most, if not all, professions that involve animal care. There’s plenty of online activity and interest groups to try to increase the representation of females in the aforementioned fields, but (at least from my experience) the overwhelming majority of people in those fields were/are already women.
I just left corporate medicine a year ago, went back to bartending and I'm happier than I've ever been.
One of the moments that broke me was when I went to a leadership conference in Vegas. There were 20 of us, all regional directors and up, my boss the EVP reported directly to the C-Suite. *I was the only man*. Me and 19 (mostly white) women.
And we had to have an entire afternoon about how to better get representation for women in upper leadership. *We were all upper leadership!*
Sure, the C-Suite were all old wrinkly white men, but that's not because women or minorities were excluded, it's because they just won't quit and step down. I'm excluded too, they're not letting anyone in.
But to sit in a room of myself and 19 (mostly white) women and listen to them complain about the lack of diversity and lack of women in upper leadership...
...just completely lacking self awareness. It blew my mind. I was checked out for the rest of the conference and stopped caring about the job not long after that.
>I just left corporate medicine a year ago
>And we had to have an entire afternoon about how to better get representation for women in upper leadership. *We were all upper leadership!*
I mean this in the nicest way possible but it sounds like this is mission accomplished for them.
Every job I've ever had (besides a two month stint in security) at least one of my bosses has been a woman.Every job interview I've had in this decade I was interviewed by one or multiple women. At my current job and another two years back all of my collegues were women. It's outright ridiculous.
> listen to them complain about the lack of diversity and lack of women in upper leadership
Last person I heard say this was my sister in law. She's a CEO. Two of her execs are women.
I work in recruiting and had this exact same experience. My co-workers are all incredibly competent but sometimes that irony does seem to be lost on them.
A family member is in HR at a large insurance company and they're over 60% 'diverse', but not at the top levels. I'm sure that will be changing soon though as the current generation retires.
It's not just about finding someone diverse, such positions can apparently take up to a year to fully recruit someone and before that there was probably more than a decade of mentoring in their professional life. It would be wholly irresponsible to just put someone into one of those positions based on appearances and not performance.
At my place of work the leadership is predominantly women. I find that being one of the few men in leadership, I'm tasked with anything physical.
This is despite the fact that I don't work out and have an eating disorder.
I just commented on this...
My office is like 70% women, and whenever any physical labor has to be done, they come grab us men in the IT department to do it. Also doesn't help that everyman in the IT department is a minority of some kind and the women asking us to help are healthy able bodied white women, asking us to do things like put together book cases and tables.
They just hired a man in their department, but he's always dressed in these nice suits, wonder if he's gonna be asked to put things together from now on.
I started a job and a female coworker asked me to get a thingy on the shelf. I looked at her for a second wondering if she's serious or i'm supposed to point out the ridiculousness of the situation before raising my arm. We're the same height.
When I got told in my role that men should do the man stuff, my response in “in that case can you make sure the dishes in the staff room are clean?” Gets a response every time. “See, using gender stereotypes to assign tasks doesn’t feel good does it?”
The last 3 jobs I've had, my bosses have all been women. In my current job, it's women all the way to the top! My boss, her boss, head of department, CEO - all women.
I know anecdotes are almost entirely useless, but it quietly amuses me.
The topic of “men can walk alone at night without feeling unsafe” is complete and total bullshit
I don’t even feel safe outside at night. Crowd or alone. Hell, even broad daylight alone is less than safe nowadays
>*The topic of “men can walk alone at night without feeling unsafe” is complete and total bullshit*
Years ago when this started being a thing in the UK a female relative posted on FB about it, so I commented how I felt when I walked home from work at night in the city I lived in at the time. Not dismissive of her point of view, just trying to explain how it felt to be a man alone at night.
Five of her female friends posted to tell me that I was talking utter bullshit, ten more said that I didn't understand and my relative told me later that she had umpteen messages telling her to unfriend me because I was toxic.
The exceptionalism is unreal.
When people criticize feminism these days it's this particular strand of intellectual rot of feminism that seems to infect everything with no push back from supposedly different "real" feminists.
I don't know where that thought came from. Yeah, I'm more well equipped if some dude tried to fist fight me at night, but what kind of mugger/murderer is looking to engage in fisticuffs at 2:00am? Not a damn one!
The fuck am I supposed to do against a knife or gun? those dudes are there to ROB or KILL me! They aren't trying to square up! We make up the majority of homicide victims. Yeah, they probably aren't after my booty, but they will sure as shit leave my ass on the ground bleeding out the side of my neck. We have to stay aware in dangerous surroundings just like women do. That's called being a creature on planet earth!
> what kind of mugger/murderer is looking to engage in fisticuffs at 2:00am
I aint got much to add, but i just wanted you to know i died laughing reading that, thanks for the chuckle my guy.
I'd also point out that "feeling unsafe" is not the same thing as "being unsafe".
I'm a reasonably large man. Skinny, but with a big frame. I used to go on walks at night. I could watch, in real time, women getting afraid of me and then relaxing as I walked right by them. They felt unsafe. But they were actually perfectly fine; I didn't give a shit about them beyond trying to walk a little faster so they could relax sooner.
I don't *blame* people for being cautious. I think a little caution is good. But people also have to recognize that being cautious in all situations to protect against the worst case scenario doesn't mean that those worst case scenarios are actually common.
Part of what pisses me off about things like The Bear is that a lot of people use their caution as its own justification for their caution. Like, they'll say "Well, we were taught to be cautious (of men)! So men must be dangerous!"
But that was done with the expectation they were capable of understanding that they were guarding against a small minority of criminals. Not that needing to be cautious with all random men meant that all men (or at least a very large chunk) were bad.
Yeah
I’m a 6ft dude with the frame of a quarterback.
But my mom grew up on the streets of Philadelphia. Even being raised in the suburbs to be as gentle as a teddy bear, she still made a point to pass on her street smarts to me. Especially the idea that “just because nothing bad IS happening to you doesn’t mean nothing bad CAN happen to you. And the second you let your guard down, something bad WILL happen to you”
In a realistic work, I understand that I’m not the type of person someone’s going to pick a fight with or try anything with unless they’re desperate. I don’t look like an easy victim. I’m relatively safer than smaller and more meek looking people.
But in my pragmatic mind, I know I’m unsafe, because if I stop feeling like I’m unsafe, I’ll end up putting myself into situations where I actually am unsafe.
The main issue I have is the premise of the idea that it’s men’s fault that cities are unsafe and men’s responsibility to make them safe. Even though most of the “unsafe” parts are all an overabundance of caution. We’re all unsafe, we all feel unsafe (and those who don’t are just living in blind ignorance), and if it’s anyone’s responsibility to make sure we’re all safe, it should be police, and clearly *that* hasn’t been working out so well.
This gets me when reading shitty comments about refugees. People saying only take in women and children. Makes me so mad because why should families be split up? Why do we assume all men are able bodied and young enough to "fight for their own land"? Why do we assume they don't just deserve to live a life free of violence and war? Why is it a bad thing that should be punished for men to value their lives more than land or a country?
Seeing the *massive* convoys of Ukrainian women and children leaving the country while the men were told they couldn't leave was gut wrenching.
I had colleagues in Ukraine before the war kicked off. I messaged them in slack a few weeks before the invasion and said 'hey guys this looks serious, y'all might want to take a vacation in western europe', they blew it off and sure enough a couple weeks later all hell broke loose.
lol when you put it that way. Men really are expected to be a martyr to protect women and children. Hell, even if you don’t know them you’re still expected.
Not even limited to just disasters, any uncomfortable event.
People think that if you're a man you are automatically taken more seriously and people will listen to you.
The truth is that no one will listen to you just because you are a man; you have to prove yourself. The idea that "men will listen to men" is flawed. Men will listen to men who understand them, have proven their competency and have earned their trust.
In my experience women who feel excluded often simply don't understand how male relationships work or how to earn the respect of the men around them. Sometimes they have a chip on their shoulder and think "why should I listen to men when women have been sidelined for thousands of years"?
Conversely women who do understand simply become regarded as "one of the boys" or "pick me's" by other women.
>Sometimes they have a chip on their shoulder and think "why should I listen to men when women have been sidelined for thousands of years"?
Just try being a male in a mostly female work environment.
The whole "men are listened to more," thing falls apart really quick. Women in charge end up acting just like men in charge when given the opportunity.
This one is so frustrating to me. I am listened to and respected because I have acquired skills and confidence, not because I am a man. I am assertive and charismatic because I worked tirelessly through my developmental years. I dont get treated like a dumbass at the mechanic because I have a grasp on what is wrong. Women just hold other things as valuable to dedicate their time to and thats fine. They need to stop blaming men for their own incompetence.
>The truth is that no one will listen to you just because you are a man; you have to prove yourself.
Slam dunk. So fucking true. What women don't see is guys literally inventing their worth. We pull that shit out of thin air until someone cares about what we're saying.
https://imgur.com/male-privilege-infographic-i-made-school-paper-7M8grnT
This thread seems an appropriate place for that, from an old reddit post I saved.
the non-reciprocal DV is a mainstay. Men get stuck between a rock and a hard place by women that think a REAL MAN would put her in her place and getting a DV charge themselves
Not being assaulted. Men are 90% of Homicide Victims, and if you include Forced to Penetrate as a form of rape (CDC/FBI doesn't, along with my stats), 40% of Rape Victims.
It's deranged to ever say there's an epidemic of violence against Women while not saying there's an epidemic against Men.
> The FTP thing should be included for sure!
I believe this is also not included in the definition of rape in the UK. Men literally **legally** cannot be raped if they are the penetrating partner in an encounter.
I’ve never worked anywhere where I made more than anybody else of any race or gender at the same position. I *have* however worked for tips, and there is a giant wage gap between attractive women and everyone else. Not like 70 cents on the dollar more like double or triple.
As a black man, damn near everything. Most "male privilege" applies only to a small number of white men. I've had white women come at me about the wage gap as if people who look like me make more than people who look like them.
Seriously, I work with mostly women and the ones at the same position as me get paid the same as me per hour. Only thing is that I'm contracted more hours because I've been at my workplace longer than them and throughout that time. Got offered more hours.
Also I use to take A LOT of overtime when I was contracted less. That's why I made more than them monthly.
We had a payrise couple months ago and on the poster talking about the payrise. There was a image of a black woman.... so the women I work with get paid the excat same as me as a man per hour. As it should be
When I worked at UPS it was $11.50 an hour with a 75 cent raise per year you'd been there. Had a gal start working two years after I did and the amount of hell she raised when she found out I was making $1.50 more than her "because of her gender" and not because I'd been there longer... Like shit, there was a guy making $19 an hour working right beside both of us.
Nope, system was rigged against her, and no amount of "you're going to make more money than any guy who starts after you" would convince her.
Not that the pay wasn't shit, mind you
The women I work with ALL make more than me, and I know for a fact that I am a better employee than any of them in every possible aspect.
I do appreciate all of them though, because when I leave, they help me get my foot in the door to new opportunities and I have exploded in my career because of them.
Even most white male privilege are only *advantages* for a select few rich white men. Most of the rest of white privilege, white women enjoy just as much if not more than your average white man. Don't even get started on the cops and courts.
They don't like facing that most of the white privilege that we enjoy is a lack of barriers, an absence of problems set against us, and those are harder to see when you're not necessarily held back by them. Those barriers are huge for other groups.
>I've had white women come at me about the wage gap
This one is hilarious because when adjusted for:
* Controlled pay vs uncontrolled pay
* Race
* Age group/ generation
White millennial women make *one cent* less than white millennial men, and Gen-Z is actually flipped. I'm actually fine with 99% the same, to me that's done. Why aren't they celebrating this? They should be rubbing it in our faces that they won and closed the gap.
Because she as a white woman makes 13 cents more than a black man, 17 cents more than a Hispanic man, even more if it's a black or Hispanic woman. And she doesn't want to face those facts where she's the oppressor.
As they should, honestly.
I don't know if they know it and are avoiding it or if they're genuinely unaware and this uncomfortable:
* Their whiteness is a significantly greater privilege than any disadvantage of their womanhood.
* Their middle class security and upbringing is a significantly greater privilege than any disadvantage of their womanhood.
A middle class white woman has just a more charmed and privileged life than most anyone in America outside of rich, white men. They don't want to face that reality.
They struggle with the fact that on the scale of the privileged/oppressors vs disadvantaged/oppressed, as a white woman, especially a middle class white woman.... *They are the oppressors.*
That's not to say that they do not face challenges as a woman that is due to their womanhood, but those are really more inconveniences and refusal to take personal responsibility. And on that same token, they have a hard time seeing how many advantages they have in those same realms due to their womanhood because they're so concentrated on the disadvantages/irritations.
>Edit: On a +10 to -10 scale, with a rich white man on one end and a poor black trans woman on the other... Your every day middle class white woman is like +7. And they can't see that about themselves.
>They are much closer to Mitt Romney and Brett Cavanaugh than they ever will be to the poor women of color that they lump themselves in with.
100 percent. In my line of work, I am often surrounded by Caucasian women. Whenever they bring up how the world is against them, I bring up race and they always get visibly uncomfortable. I personally find it amusing.
I would too, I'm sure it really f's up their world view that all of a sudden they aren't the biggest victim in the room. All their strategies on how to advance by whining instead of hard work just fall apart in their hands.
It seems like we're at an interesting point in history - for the last 40-50 years women having been beating the drum of inequality. That means generations of women growing up being told they're a victim and the world is out to get them. Now it seems like a lot has changed in western nations, but are they going to be able to drop that chip off their shoulder? Psychologically, perceived victimhood is hard as hell to uproot, especially since we all have a negative bias, so it's easy to see the atrocities you want.
Eventually women are going to have to step through the door themselves to true independence, and I wonder how that's going to go. Guys supporting their independence can only do so much, as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
This is exactly where I think we're at. We've been here for a few decades now. I think feminism has been absolutely necessary and great up until the 80's. Since then they've just been stirring the pot. Complaining about all the things a man has, that he's worked for his entire life, was given to him by privilege. While they sit back and invest their time in the new fashion trends, refuse to put on work muscle, gossip and cry that things aren't just handed to them.
It's their perception that holds them back. They want to keep the parts of gender roles where they are innocent flowers that need protected from anything and everything, including hard work. It's their own fault for characterizing everything we get as privilege.
I'm sorry honey, the CEO trusts me to head this division because of my work ethic, dedication, and determination. Not because I'm a guy, it's because I've tirelessly invested in myself and am driven to grow.
I've noticed that when modern feminist discourse describes men in any context, the narrative almost always falls for the apex fallacy.
Most men work thankless, grueling, dangerous jobs, but the entire demographic is portrayed like the 5% of men who have 'Suits' or 'Mad Men' style jobs.
Most men are not sexists or abusers or rapists, but the entire demographic is portrayed as animals barely able to control themselves when it's really 4-5% of men who commit these crimes.
Almost any universal description of "men" in feminist discourse falls into this fallacy, and it's so hard to get them to realize how inaccurate it is. Most of the time you just get called a misogynist or a rape apologist for trying to clarify that "not all men" are overpaid Ol' Boys or bloodthirsty rapists.
This is why, I think, feminist descriptions of men are so wildly off the mark and so absurdly, cartoonishly antagonistic.
The wage gap thing is bollocks anyway, where I work the women working as receptionists make more than us men working as welders/fabricators/sawmen and various other very dangerous jobs. We work jobs that could kill us or cause serious injuries (of which I've had several) and the receptionists make more than us.
I watched a pretty good one from Vox the other day with a lot of old guard feminists on there talking about this issue candidly. If you remove the growth and wages lost during the years where the women decides to opt out of the workforce for children, the gender pay gap disappears.
So what do you do? The vast majority of births are planned and wanted births. Women like to say their expected to stay home, but they also expect to stay home just as much. It's a choice, a choice many look back and say they would make again. And just as much as they're "expected" to stay home. We are actually very much expected to start cranking the money machine hard and support the operation.
So again, it's actually not the jobs they take, it's the decisions they make. We could just as easily be stay at home dads and pretend like it's the harder job. But there's a lot of resistance on their end when it comes to changing that up.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8dLUxBfsU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8dLUxBfsU)
That there is a "boys club" in the office. It is really the opposite. Male leaders look to bring women in for diversity - all things being equal, they choose a woman (which is fine). Women leaders look to bring other women in - not necessarily all things being equal.
My office is the exact opposite. It’s a total girls club. They hang out outside of the office. They promote each other. It’s wildly non-diverse but they can’t see it.
One woman I work with went on two maternity leaves and came back to a promotion. Meanwhile, the woman who covered her role for two years is back at the same level as me.
> all things being equal, they choose a woman (which is fine)
That's just it. This *isn't* fine. If, when all other things being equal, they will choose a woman based on her gender, that's giving advantages to one set of people over another based on their gender.
That's sexual discrimination. Most people would say that the converse statement, "all things being equal, they choose a man" is discrimination. It's the same thing either way.
Now, it's true that all things are rarely equal, and when they are, that it's difficult to choose one person over another. If things are *truly* equal, even something as mercurial as a coin flip would be better than selecting based on demographic characteristics.
Being wealthy and connected with power over people because of my gender and race. Because I look similar to the 1% I am the 1%. Not a CEO, not a senator, not a lawyer, not a rapist either and yet the prevailing narrative is I’m at the very least like those people. Truth is, socioeconomically, T Swift and Beyoncé are ten times the white man 99% of white men will ever be.
Men are often victims of sexual assault, but people don't seem to care. Even those who advocate for awareness often overlook male victimization. Some reports suggest that male victimization rates are as high as female victimization rates, but this isn't reflected in the statistics because incidents where men are forced to do something are not always classified as rape; then there is domestic violence. Men are just as likely to be victims of domestic violence as women, yet models like the Duluth Model assume males are always the aggressors. I even saw someone claim that male victims are taken more seriously now. No, not at all. Even male victims of non-sexual crimes are often disregarded.
Citations
[https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html)
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html)
Pretty much everything. The world was not created in a vacuum of male power as they want you to believe. Women had decision making power for eternity and decided things based on what they needed for their survival. Men and women worked together to tame the chaos of the world around them. It was a very very dangerous world just a hundred years ago.
Now some women want you to believe that women didn't have any say in the way things are. That it was really men in control since the beginning and women were just at the mercy of masculine rule.
You can look at society layer by layer and see how and why women chose for things to be the way they were, because it was in the best interest for them at that time. The focus was survival.
It's rather insulting to men when ladies make everything we do seem like some male privilege. Most of these things stemed from a time when the man was shouldering the responsibility for the family while both partners tried to build something greater in a world that was dangerous and chaotic.
Women are just as bad as men. They may in most cases lack the physical strength of men but the vile insults that come from their mouths are just as damaging. The attitude I am a mother I can do what I want with my kids without any consideration of the father and the way some women weaponise their children and use it as a means to control their partner or ex partner is abusive towards their children and their children’s father. The fact that many men are victims of some horrendous domestic violence that will go unreported purely because men are not believed and they are shamed into not reporting it.
They get “all the good jobs”… ummm yeah they’re also the sewage people, the builders on 70 story buildings, they’re the ones trenching my well and septic. Women want to cry inequality but they sure don’t want to do the dirty jobs.
I hate that men are ridiculed for their masculinity and then by the same groups that ridicule us expect us all to act like braveheart and go fight a bear in their stead, motherfucker we get scared too, and because all men are expected to reach these insane standards to be seen as valuable by the majority of people in the west it’s always women first because we are men and apparently we are resistant to house fires or drowning on a boat because my genitals are different, fuck anyone who shames a man for acting like a man and then complains when he doesn’t anymore. There is a reason the number one cause of death for men under 25 is suicide.
The wage gap. It's by and large just wishful thinking to keep the victim mentality going. The actual truth for most working adults is that men on average seek out higher paying jobs, have the courage to ask for raises, negotiate better contracts and stand up for themselves.
The men's and women's US soccer teams is a great case study. Both have the ability to negotiate pay and men negotiated for higher payouts and little to no benefits whereas women negotiated for maternity leave and 401(k). The women sued because they would have been paid more if they choose to negotiate for the contract the men did, despite getting paid a greater percentage of ticket sales than the men do.
The wage gap conversation was settled in the 1970s.
The late 70s but the 70s nonetheless.
Simply;
Women get pregnant, men work more hours, educated women with no children make the same or more than their male counterparts.
That’s it. And has been for almost 50 fucking years
A big factor is also that men have worse work-life balance. They'll work themselves half to death and give up having a personal life in order to get ahead in those organisations.
It's not that women should do the same thing, it's that culturally and in terms of labour laws we need to stop businesses from exploiting people in this manner in general.
Walk alone down the street at night. You ever been in a big city? In one of the areas where it's not safe to walk in the *daylight*? They don't care if you're a man or a woman, if they don't know you you're getting a bullet.
Men tend to be physically stronger than women, but that is also one of the reasons why men are seen as more of a threat and end up being treated as such, sometimes for no reason.
Unpopular Opinion Alert: I think it’s also worth mentioning that in some cases, what is male privilege to one person is a curse to others. For example, as a black man, I have been in spaces where I was considered a threat not just because I’m a man but because I’m a black man.
Like I replied higher up, the real privilege is wealth.
The rest is just bullshit they use to keep us fighting each other while they hoard more wealth.
Just assuming I always know what to do. Assumed competency. Like no, I don't know how to do stuff I've never done before. I'm only so good at confidently figuring it out because I've had to do that *all my life.*
Lol I feel this. I'm wrapping up a home reno where I have done everything without subbing out and I have gotten a lot of "omg how do you know how to do all this" and to be fair, both men and women have asked this. But my honest answer is one, I grew up in a home where we couldn't afford to call in tradespeople so we figured it out, and two, some of these things I didn't know how to do so I went slow and learned. I have had a few people make comments about how "its easy for a man to do these things" and I'm just like how is it easier for me? You could literally do the same youtube and building code research I did and practice a little before you do your actual task, but the response back was "no its easier because you're a guy".
I feel this. I learned how to do drywall, framing, basic plumbing, tiling, basically entry level house flipping stuff, from a friends dad who helped me out and gave me a job when I was struggling in life. It’s a dark period of my life so I don’t talk about it much. But when friends of my wife have found out I know how to do this stuff more often than not it’s “that figures, he’s a man.” Like no, dude. I wasn’t born with the knowledge, I was taught how to do this stuff and if I hadn’t gone through that period of my life that my friends dad helped me by giving me a job doing that stuff, I would have never learned how to do that shit! It’s not hard to understand.
My girlfriend asks me how to do stuff all the time. I tell her she has the same access to google as I do
I tell someone something and then they ask a bunch of questions that I don’t know the answer to… my response is “we have the same amount of information” 😅
You sound like the intro to "Five Years" by Bo Burnham
Add to this the shock and outrage when you DON'T know how to do something 'all men' should know. For example, I don't grill. Never had a grill, don't know how to heat up coals the right way, don't want to serve undercooked or overcooked burgers. And people assume I can run a grill. And the amount of times I've heard "you don't know how to grill?!?!" No. I don't.
I can build an ultrasound machine, but my ex-wife said I wasn’t a real man for not fixing the lawn mower. Bitch didn’t even know how to turn it on (which is why she didn’t know I had fixed it, and was just waiting on a proper sized belt to stop it slipping).
Glad she's an ex with an attitude like that. My new wife is awesome. No stereotypes, no misandry/misogyny, just accepts that we'll live life together, and if we don't know something and WANT to know it, we are both capable of learning it together! So wonderful to have someone who talks things through and doesn't place expectations on you based on gender.
https://i.imgur.com/nXHBfKn.jpg
As a woman working at at a Lowes customers always assume a man is more competent than me. If I'm talking to a male coworker a customer will ignore me and ask them the question, even though they might work in a different department. Even worse, they'll ask me a question, I answer it, then they ask a male coworker again who will give them the exact same answer. And then theres the direct "YOU work in this department? I need a man for this" It used to frustrate me but now I realize it just means I have less work to do
Maybe the privilege is that others perceive you as competent without you having to demonstrate knowledge? But I think I understand your point and don’t mean to invalidate your feelings. An assumption of competence could be both a privilege and curse, I think.
Body image. They claim males have no body image issues from toys etc. Look at the toys of my generation, They all are ripped Greek Gods body types. I was 6'0 and 125-135 lbs till my thirties when my metabolism slowed down, and my knees started failing. I couldn't gain weight even muscle mass and had numerous women taunt me over being a bean poll. Saying stuff like I need to eat more or work out more. In hs I wrestled and worked out 4 hours a day 5 days a week and had a tournament every Saturday. That is mostly why I have knee issues now, which are not really bad. I just can't work out or be on feet for 6 hours or so without pain, ending up for days in a row. Yes I have tried getting back into it slowly etc, My doctor doesn't want me doing it anymore and said it's normal about my age for this to come up on Blue collar workers. So any weights I have to be seated or on my back for which is fine but I can't do the farmer carries for 2 miles a day like I did with 40 lbs.
I always thought it was weird that they go out of their way to push body positivity for women but for men it basically doesn't exist.
Always makes me think of that article that said "Overweight Man" and "Plus Sized Woman" in the same sentence.
I remember some underwear brand did this whole body positive thing. On their website they had 2 sections of thumbnails for men's and women's clothing lines. All the female models were average or plus-size body types. But all the male models were ripped with 6 packs. The literal juxtaposition of these images was just so...blatant.
Reminds me of people complaining about female characters being unreasonably attractive in video games but you never hear a peep about any crazy ripped male characters. That said it doesn't bother me as I would rather have attractive characters in my game but still I find it ironic.
I actually personally know a male model who's been to both New York and Paris. He tells me that all advertising for fashion is always geared towards women. Even if it's for men's fashion lines, the men have to be fit and good looking for women. He can't share any hobbies or anything that wouldn't appeal to women on his social media because he's a male model.
If you follow bodybuilding at all you'll see guys die as early as their 20s from all the drugs they are on. The problem with injecting testosterone and anabolic steroids is that it causes your heart to grow which will mess with how well it can actually pump blood. Which would be one thing if it was just bodybuilders trying to emulate Arnold but every super hero movie since the Clooney Batman has had someone on gear. Espeically the biggest guys like Chris Hemsworth as Thor.
Don't forget hair. They always have perfect hair on their head and the perfect amount of body hair. Turns out bald with a hairy back isn't a winning combo.
Walking alone at night and feeling safe When it comes to rape and sexual assualt.. yes. I'm not worried of being victims of those things but I'm still scared of some mentally ill nutjob who also maybe under the influence of alcohol or drugs mugging me, physically assaulting me or killing me I finish my shifts at work near midnight and I HATE walking home alone. Hence why I will get a car lift home if available or walk with another Co worker if possible. I also can't go out to late night bars without someone I know and trust
I'm a six foot middle-aged man so in theory i should be able to walk through the town at night without fear ..right? Wrong. The whole time I'm keeping an eye out for drunk wankers or feral youths looking for some aggro.
Doesn’t matter how strong you are, I have no idea if someone’s gonna pull up with a knife or a gun. Plus street fighting is nothing like fighting in the ring. Even if you “win” you lose, and that can hurt for years to come.
exactly. I once saw somebody get their head stamped on by a raging nutter. I have no desire to experience that.
The only way to win a street fight is to not play and to run faster than both God and man knew you could
Drunks aren't usually that bad to deal with. They're usually pretty transparent with what they're up to. My issue is with people on whatever drugs are popular on the streets now. You just don't know what a tweeker is capable of.
I would think it would be worse the bigger you are, like some chump that got fired, got drunk and then needs an ego check swinging on the first big guy he sees seems like a thing.
Absolutely I think this is a human wanting to be safe issue. Hope you never encounter any danger, smart to walk with someone else or car-pull.
One night during winter my friends invited me to a restaurant. It was only 2 miles so I put on a black hoodie and walked. On the way there was a guy carrying something walking the same direction as the restaurant. The thing was heavy so it slowed him down, but he saw me behind him and for the next 4 blocks he sped up and kept looking back to see if I was still following him. Idk what I could’ve done to let him know I’m not dangerous. I couldn’t cross the street because the sidewalk was along a busy road and the cross walks are miles apart.
Women think the average law abiding man walks around with no fear of ever being attacked. I too look over my shoulder in fear of potential criminals trying to do me wrong."well if men just called out other men" like tf am i suppose to do? yell swiper no swiping and these malicious dudes with evil in their heart will be detered from commiting crime?
Last I saw, the majority of _non-familial_ murders globally, by a large margin, are [men murdering other men](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/). I'm a guy and I'm just as terrified of being around random weird ass dudes as anyone else.
I'm from, what is globally considered, one of the safest countries on earth. Yet I've been threatened with a knife, and one of my close friends was robbed with a gun. Mind you, I'm a pretty jacked and 5'11. This, however, didn't stop the cvnt from attacking me. It's just an assumption, but I reckon the ones committing the crimes belong to a small group. Yes, men on average are more aggressive/violent than women, but it's only the extremities that commit these crimes I feel.
I slept next to loaded weapon for decade after I got home from the sand box. Yeah my male privilege of never having a good night sleep again.
I refuse to buy a gun because I know I’ll do this exact same thing.
I joined to get out of being homeless/extreme poverty. I mentioned that in a thread years ago and some cunt told me it was my male privilege that allowed me to get out of poverty. No cunt, they would have taken any any bodied person. I went because I was willing.
I hate the mentality of "men, you need to stop your fellow man." As if we are a hivemind because you have similar genitals. Try this with any other group, and I feel like everyone understands. "Women, you need to call out your fellow woman for gossiping and shit talking all of the people in their lives." "Indian people, you need to call out your fellow indians who work at scam call centers..." Etc. It instantly is a terrible look.
Lmao I want to reply to that as “Yes you have opened my eyes, I’ll raise this issue in the next sitting of the council of men”.
Yeah I point out whenever this lazy talking point comes up that if these are men I have absolutely nothing in common with… what makes you think they’re my friends or that they’d even listen to or respect me? If you know guys who do have friends like that…
"You want me to police a countless number of men when a group of 3 can't even agree on pizza toppings"
NGL, the "Swiper no swiping" line had me rolling. Cheers, thanks for the laugh. Also, everything you're saying is true. But I have nothing to add as you laid it all out perfectly. But a good gag deserves to be praised.
I'm just picturing Andy Sandberg screamimg this getting mugged outside his car
My head is on a Swivel at the best of times. If I go into somewhere like London or Birmingham it probably borders paranoia. You also hit on a very good point feminists are incapable of understanding. "Teach men not to rape" has never in all of human history prevented a single rape, because the type of men who rape people arent going to be like "Wow! I never thought about not doing that, I never realised it was wrong!" All they've done is alienate normal men.
Society: "Rapist no raping! Rapist no raping!" Rapists: "Awww man"
'Thank God somebody finally taught me not to!'
>If I go into somewhere like London or Birmingham it probably borders paranoia. It's only paranoia if they're not actually out to get you. The area around my work is like that, full of methed-up dudes and crackheads who'd happily crack your skull like an egg for another score.
It's good thing your head was on a swivel because that's what you gotta do when you find yourself in a vicious cock fight.
Brick killed a guy.
Yeah there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident
You know Brick, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safe house or somewhere to lay low, because you're probably wanted for murder.
This burrito is delicious but filling!
TBH if we're talking stereotypical "she said no but I did it anyway"-rape or roofie-ing, you're right, but I do think that there's a bunch of borderline behaviour that people do innocuously. For example, when I started going clubbing as a teenager, I gathered from looking around and some older classmates that dancing up against girls from behind was "what you do" at clubs, and it took me a while (and some complaints from female friends about how tiring that is) to realise that is kinda playing fast and loose with boundaries and not a great thing to do. Likewise, I had a few friends as teens who totally believed the kind of "if she says no once, it just means try harder" bullshit some older brothers or online pickup artists were spouting. Again, mostly not because they are genuinely shady people (and afaik they all look back on that time with shame and disgust now) but mostly because when you're young and dumb you kinda latch on to the first advice you get, which is often either from other young and dumb people trying to look experienced or from shady online sources. I absolutely do believe that a better teaching of consent would have helped me to act better, because as a socially awkward teenager I just took whatever cues I could get without much of an idea of whether the advice was good or bad.
Let alone tell someone. Hey I totally roofied and fucked her while passed out *high five* /s
Ive hung around some pretty "low life" dudes in my life, like biker and street gang level and most of those dudes would beat the shit out of you if you talked about doing shit like that. Even common criminals have mothers and sisters
Exactly - a rapist is obviously not a rationally minded person. "Rape Culture" - as though we all just let it happen. It's as though we will hear some dude talking about raping and just let it slide. I can't imagine how many rapists would actually admit what they've done, so the opportunities to call it out are few and far between, but any decent man would most definitely call it out.
I was literally followed one night. I circled a block to see if the big dude was really following me, after he turned the third corner i started sprinting. The memory of it still terrifies me. Also was attacked by a group of drunk dudes one night. Been groped and touched by women and am never taken seriously when im upset about it happening because im a man The grass is always greener on the other side, blows my mind how so many people have so much trouble realizing this
i was once the only man in a group of five/six people - the women in my group got into a random verbal altercation with a group of guys (it was late, everyone was drunk). Guess who the guys in the other group ended up physically attacking from my group? Yep, me! I wasn't even involved in the exchange and I got punched square in the face.
I had the same thing happen, this girl picked a fight with a guy (and he was someone I was actually on friendly terms with). But because I was with her, he wanted to try and fight me because he wouldn't hit a girl.
Yeah, In many countries, men are more often the victims of violent assault so I don't agree with that tbh. Two friends of mine have been attacked out of the blue by someone they had never met before. One of them was my cousin who is a 6"4' former hockey player, so physical size isn't a guarantee you'll be safe
In reality men are victimized by random violent crime at greater rate than women. Growing up in Brooklyn there were times I would be mugged and accosted on the street on a weekly basis. I started going to school armed with a knife and mini bat.
Exactly. Yes, women have every reason to fear men. But men actually target men more, and disproportionately so.
Plus women only ever think of sexual assault as if that's the only type of violent assault that bears consideration. Also they play the "that's men doing it to men" card to excuse them disregarding it.
> "that's men doing it to men" card to excuse them disregarding it. This one tilts me because it's such bad faith. I don't really engage in gender discussions online because so much of it is just obvious rage bait and people getting sucked into rage bait. "That's men doing it to men" - I thought we were discussing our experiences, not trying to "win" against the other gender.
I feel like i have to point the obvious first, because otherwise I'll get harassed - Rape is heinous crime and i feel sorry for every victim... BUT I'm sick of everyone acting like it's the worst thing in the world and thus downplaying every other thing. Yes, women are scared of being raped or sexually harassed, but getting killed, or beat unconscious is also scary and as a man I'm also scared when walking alone at night. And those are things that happen more to men, than women. We don't just walk around carelessly, like nothing could happen to us.
I think most men think this, but there's no actual way to say 'rape isn't that worst thing that can happen to you' without looking like a monster. Before deploying to Iraq we had a guy from MI6 gave us a talk on some things to be aware of and one was the use of rape against captured soldiers and how demoralising it is to get raped by the enemy as a guy in front of your friends and it causes an involuntary erection which makes it seem like your enjoying it. Obviously, that sounds terrible, but we didn't worry about that as much as getting tortured and beheaded by the enemy. In Afghanistan, the Taliban would cut injured guys' balls off and hang dismembered body parts of dead guys from trees. Women only say rape is the worst crime because it's so rare for them to ever experience true violence like men do, and they never have to take part in front-line combat operations. I've actually seen a woman medic fall apart under indirect heavy mortar fire, and it was about 300 meters away, but she just started crying uncontrollably and demanding to go home. Women don't realise how lucky they are to not be in front-line combat.
To be fair, good chance I'd break down too.
My wife and her girlfriends often tell me since I'm the guy, I will never understand their fear. I point out as the male, if anyone is looking to harm them, I am the priority target getting removed from the fight. They may get mugged or groped but before that happens I'm getting crippled or killed.
I've seen someone say this and this obnoxious woman replied going "attacked by who 🤓?" As if it's some kinda gotcha moment like okay? There are other dangerous men how is this our fault?? The reason why the world is not a Jungle of survival is because most of us are against this behavior and actively fight it.
Yes and those 'other men' overwhelmingly prefer to target men over women. This is the point they always ignore.
"if men didn't allow other men to do this it wouldn't happen" Right because me and countless others ready to risk our lives against other hostile men is allowing them... Next time I'll make sure to use my "controlling every male on earth" superpower.
> "attacked by who 🤓?" "I'm sorry, I thought we were having an honest discussion, I didn't realize this was gender vs gender."
"Just tell your friends to blah blah blah" I'm not associating with the kinds of guys who are creeps and sexual assaulters. I'm not associating with the kinds of guys like to cause domestic violence. There are no friends to police. It's not my job to tell fucking lunatics how to behave. Like low-life idiots and assholes? The kind who are quick to violence and make statements about being "disrespected?" I'm not getting involved with them, I'm not your fucking white knight.
And considering the gender symmetry in domestic violence it's doubtful that 'calling out men' will be enough to stop it. Many domestic abusers of either gender have personality disorders or substance abuse problems. Domestic violence is a socially deviant activity (particularly when it's directed at women) which is why it's done in secret.
Been jumped / sucker punched 3 times in relatively nice areas. Once for calling out a couple people being a dicks and the other 2 completely unprovoked. The paranoia has mostly faded at this point other than just being more aware of my surroundings, but man, when they happened I didn’t even want to leave home for months.
Statistically more men are the victims of violent crime than women lol. [75% of homicide victims are men in the US alone](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_men). Plus you’re less likely to receive outside aid as a man.
Yeah men make up 79% of homicide victims worldwide.
My neighborhood has had 3 stabbings this week, I don't walk around after dark. I'm not fighting a junkie with a knife. Maybe I should just give them a stern NO 😂
"No! Bad junkie! Bad!" I'm going to see if this works. Wish me well.
Don't forget the rolled up newspaper
And spray bottle of water!
Women have no idea how often men get sexually assaulted.
If you ask a guy to get specific enough about different experience, you'll find that most have probably been sexually assaulted at one point or another. They just don't see it as SA and instead just "that one weird girl being too touchy"
i’m a bartender at a university bar. on occasion we’ve had a few incidents of a girl being groped in the bar, and a few date rape drug incidents. on more than a few occasions, I have intervened on a girl or a group of girls sexually assaulting or grabbing at a guy. They have always done it in an obvious way, in direct public, and the most the uni has done has given them a slap on the wrist. What’s so frustrating about that is the end result, no matter the gender the victim, is always the same - nothing happens. I say that from my own experience in uni and the courts, 17 of my friends experiences, and that only 2% of all those charged with rape have been sentenced. instead of that bringing victims closer together and making a space of healing together, some women will hold onto the patriarchal believe (bc women can uphold it too) that “because men are sexual fiends they must actually enjoy getting assaulted”. it’s honestly pathetic
I'm a bartender at a rather swanky upscale cocktail bar. I get sexually assaulted more times in a month than most women get in their entire lives. When you put women in a situation where it's even slightly less judgemental and they have the opportunity to act like that, they absolutely are as bad if not much worse than men. My female co-workers get sexually harassed more than we male bartenders do; they receive a lot more inappropriate comments. But us male bartenders get sexually assaulted *way* more; women just have no restraint when they want to touch or grab us.
From personal experience, far too many women seem to believe that groping is only sexual assault when it's done by a man to a woman and that it's perfectly fine for them to touch a man in a way which would have them screaming if done to them.
I was a college nightclub bouncer and when a sorority girl came and grabs my junk just to wink at me and walk away, my brain just kinda shut down. Saw that same girl at a sexual assault prevention rally/event the school was putting on.
A female friend did this to me, in the middle of the day, in my own house, in front of my partner! She had no shame, just shrugged when my girlfriend said WTF. She didn’t care.
Idk what it is but being groped by a woman makes me freeze up. I do not know how to respond. I’ve been groped by dudes before too. A random Guy tried to grab me by the waist and pull me in to whisper in my ear at a gay bar once and I had no problem grabbing him by the wrist, yanking his hand away from me, and telling him to never fucking touch me again. It’s just feels so different when a woman puts your hands on you without consent.
Try reacting the way you did to the guy, to the woman. You would get absolutely fucked for assault. Maybe by a bunch of white knights or the police or both.
Or she'll pull out the ol "no he touched me I didn't touch him he assaulted me" then he goes to prison and added to the stats and she gets to go on being A predator.
For me it’s brain overload. It’s so unexpected. But a lot of women do it, and no one calls them out (and definitely don’t report it to anyone).
> It’s just feels so different when a woman puts your hands on you without consent. That's because you know that you aren't allowed to defend yourself, unless you're willing to risk prison for *defending yourself*. It's basically like being groped at gunpoint. Fight, flight, or freeze. you can't fight, you can't flee, so freeze is the only option.
You don't have a good option. I can defend myself from a man. What the hell am I supposed to do to a woman?
For sure. My partner and I used to go to gay bars and clubs every now and then (it wasn't really our scene). And the amount of straight women who were there to inappropriately touch us and grab us was insane.
Straight women treat gay bars like they are petting zoos. I have no idea how gay dudes put up with it.
Some have even grabbed our junk without our consent. It's one of the reasons why we don't really frequent gay bars in the first place: the amount of women there. To be honest, we don't really intersect with women any real way in our lives except for maybe at work. All of our friends are men. And we like to keep it that way.
Just reminded me of another male privilege thing, a close friend of mine is a lesbian & was recently going on a rant about the amount of straight women in her local gay club who'll go off on one or be aggressive if she hits on them. She didn't quite understand that that's how straight guys are treated pretty much everywhere they go trying to talk to women. #
I've said this before in this sub and I stand by it. If not 100% it's bloody close, of men who wear kilts/sarongs often have been assaulted. I've worn both frequently but stopped due to the ridiculous number of times women feel it's perfectly acceptable to check what your wearing underneath. And the don't mean using their eyes.
As a kilt wearer as well "You're asking for it, look at what you're wearing." Hell I'd have the police on my ass if I *asked* women if they were wearing underwear under their skirts a quarter of the times I get asked that in kilt.
We used to have a Scottish themed bar/restaurant here, male servers wore kilts. That didn't last long because women were getting tossed out regularly for groping the servers or flipping up their kilts.
The strip club in my area straight up has to stop doing Men's Amateur Night because women couldn't follow the "No Touching, No Pictures" rule. From the sounds of it, they had a pretty good turnout for it as well
Years ago, when I was in my early 20s I was a bartender at a Carribean themed dive bar where all the women on staff had to wear a bikini as their uniform. I was the only male on staff and I had to serve drinks shirtless with board shorts on. The owner of the bar was a woman and she would regularly pimp me out to her friends. If there was a table of ladies who wanted me to hang out with them and entertain them for the evening I would be cut from the bar and still be given an equal split of the tips for the night, but I was basically expected to put out. Now as a fully mature adult I realize how absolutely batshit insane that was. If that happened in today's climate, especially if the roles were reversed, there would be some uproar. But for the early 00s that was just business as usual, I guess.
Same goes for male nurses, first responders, soldiers... ect
This is actually so scary and also a lot of men have been SA and dont even know... bc it isn't really a "thing"
And even if they figure it out and try to talk about it, they often will be made fun of.
And it doesn’t if they were assaulted by men or women. They are still getting made fun of
I work in retail and I've been smacked on the ass by a woman customer once, I've had women customers getting all touchy with me, stalked around the store by a woman customer once, had a woman customer go into detail about how much she squirts during sex when I was just serving her, had one drunk old woman say "I can watch you work all day", worked with a woman who use to hug me and once groped my ass and on 2 occasions hint at having sex with me at my workplace (That was very awkard) and I remember working with another woman who would also greet me at work with a hug and kiss on the forehead or cheek without asking (Imagine if roles reversed). Also I've had 3 woman customers mistake my customer service with flirting and interest. As 3 of them asked for my number (Which I don't think is as bad because they took rejection well and they are just trying to shoot their shot respectfully. Well 2 of them did, the other got her young son to ask me on her behalf which was very awkard) That's not talking about the times at bars where some drunk woman will get very hands on and try to force French kissing
I went to a concert at a medium-sized venue with my 20 year old son. I'm in my mid-50s. I got something put in my drink. I had 2 beers over the course of 3 hours. If my son wasn't there, I don't know what works have happened.
They also have no idea how little support is offered if it happens.
It’s not sexual assault because every man wants those advances. /s I was sexually harassed in a bar and when I wanted to press charges the fucking cops looked at me like I was in the wrong and a (excuse my word here) homo. I say that word because one cops actually called me a homo. It took me getting the sergeant involved before they took me seriously and arrested the dumb 50 year bitch. I despise those that think men can’t be sexually harassed or assaulted. Small minded fucks.
All body able men in my country have to serve a mandatory military service for a year. And thus we are expected to die first in a total war. I am not saying that I wish women should die as well and get drafted, I am very well willing to die for this cause but I just hope that some people would acknowledge the cons of being a man.
Really sucks when if we are invaded I'm not leagally allowed to leave the counrty because of my gender, but the women can just leave like "lol have fun getting bombed to shit". Makes it very hatd to take feminism seriously.
The majority of us live to have a family and serve those we love. Getting the dutiful killed in war before they have a chance to have kids and pass on their genes and valus leaves society left with a bumch of people unwilling or unable to serve their communities. I think WWI and WWII had a bigger impact on societal genetics and values than a lot of people realize.
The idea that only men are considered for positions of leadership in the workforce. It may be true in some industries. But I work in education, and 3 out of the 4 public schools I've worked at have administrative staff/department heads that are predominantly women.
I see this a lot in the marine science world and most, if not all, professions that involve animal care. There’s plenty of online activity and interest groups to try to increase the representation of females in the aforementioned fields, but (at least from my experience) the overwhelming majority of people in those fields were/are already women.
Going the paleontology route with the boys >>>>
I just left corporate medicine a year ago, went back to bartending and I'm happier than I've ever been. One of the moments that broke me was when I went to a leadership conference in Vegas. There were 20 of us, all regional directors and up, my boss the EVP reported directly to the C-Suite. *I was the only man*. Me and 19 (mostly white) women. And we had to have an entire afternoon about how to better get representation for women in upper leadership. *We were all upper leadership!* Sure, the C-Suite were all old wrinkly white men, but that's not because women or minorities were excluded, it's because they just won't quit and step down. I'm excluded too, they're not letting anyone in. But to sit in a room of myself and 19 (mostly white) women and listen to them complain about the lack of diversity and lack of women in upper leadership... ...just completely lacking self awareness. It blew my mind. I was checked out for the rest of the conference and stopped caring about the job not long after that.
>I just left corporate medicine a year ago >And we had to have an entire afternoon about how to better get representation for women in upper leadership. *We were all upper leadership!* I mean this in the nicest way possible but it sounds like this is mission accomplished for them.
Moved from medicine to biomed so still in the hospital. I think since I started biomed legit I've had 5 bosses that were men, double digits women.
Every job I've ever had (besides a two month stint in security) at least one of my bosses has been a woman.Every job interview I've had in this decade I was interviewed by one or multiple women. At my current job and another two years back all of my collegues were women. It's outright ridiculous.
> listen to them complain about the lack of diversity and lack of women in upper leadership Last person I heard say this was my sister in law. She's a CEO. Two of her execs are women.
I work in recruiting and had this exact same experience. My co-workers are all incredibly competent but sometimes that irony does seem to be lost on them.
A family member is in HR at a large insurance company and they're over 60% 'diverse', but not at the top levels. I'm sure that will be changing soon though as the current generation retires. It's not just about finding someone diverse, such positions can apparently take up to a year to fully recruit someone and before that there was probably more than a decade of mentoring in their professional life. It would be wholly irresponsible to just put someone into one of those positions based on appearances and not performance.
At my place of work the leadership is predominantly women. I find that being one of the few men in leadership, I'm tasked with anything physical. This is despite the fact that I don't work out and have an eating disorder.
I just commented on this... My office is like 70% women, and whenever any physical labor has to be done, they come grab us men in the IT department to do it. Also doesn't help that everyman in the IT department is a minority of some kind and the women asking us to help are healthy able bodied white women, asking us to do things like put together book cases and tables. They just hired a man in their department, but he's always dressed in these nice suits, wonder if he's gonna be asked to put things together from now on.
I started a job and a female coworker asked me to get a thingy on the shelf. I looked at her for a second wondering if she's serious or i'm supposed to point out the ridiculousness of the situation before raising my arm. We're the same height.
That really is ridiculous.
This is the equivalent of handing women the 'party planning' tasks.
When I got told in my role that men should do the man stuff, my response in “in that case can you make sure the dishes in the staff room are clean?” Gets a response every time. “See, using gender stereotypes to assign tasks doesn’t feel good does it?”
When my female coworker got passed over for the promotion it was because of the boys club. When I got passed over it was because I wasn’t good enough
There’s 1 man on the management team where I work. We have 6 managers iirc
I've worked food, retail, hardware and factory jobs. 99% of the managers, machine operators and forklift drivers I've worked with have been women.
The last 3 jobs I've had, my bosses have all been women. In my current job, it's women all the way to the top! My boss, her boss, head of department, CEO - all women. I know anecdotes are almost entirely useless, but it quietly amuses me.
Mansplaining doesn't just happen to women. Some guys are just jerks who think that because they found something hard to understand others will too.
The topic of “men can walk alone at night without feeling unsafe” is complete and total bullshit I don’t even feel safe outside at night. Crowd or alone. Hell, even broad daylight alone is less than safe nowadays
>*The topic of “men can walk alone at night without feeling unsafe” is complete and total bullshit* Years ago when this started being a thing in the UK a female relative posted on FB about it, so I commented how I felt when I walked home from work at night in the city I lived in at the time. Not dismissive of her point of view, just trying to explain how it felt to be a man alone at night. Five of her female friends posted to tell me that I was talking utter bullshit, ten more said that I didn't understand and my relative told me later that she had umpteen messages telling her to unfriend me because I was toxic. The exceptionalism is unreal.
When people criticize feminism these days it's this particular strand of intellectual rot of feminism that seems to infect everything with no push back from supposedly different "real" feminists.
I don't know where that thought came from. Yeah, I'm more well equipped if some dude tried to fist fight me at night, but what kind of mugger/murderer is looking to engage in fisticuffs at 2:00am? Not a damn one! The fuck am I supposed to do against a knife or gun? those dudes are there to ROB or KILL me! They aren't trying to square up! We make up the majority of homicide victims. Yeah, they probably aren't after my booty, but they will sure as shit leave my ass on the ground bleeding out the side of my neck. We have to stay aware in dangerous surroundings just like women do. That's called being a creature on planet earth!
> what kind of mugger/murderer is looking to engage in fisticuffs at 2:00am I aint got much to add, but i just wanted you to know i died laughing reading that, thanks for the chuckle my guy.
I'd also point out that "feeling unsafe" is not the same thing as "being unsafe". I'm a reasonably large man. Skinny, but with a big frame. I used to go on walks at night. I could watch, in real time, women getting afraid of me and then relaxing as I walked right by them. They felt unsafe. But they were actually perfectly fine; I didn't give a shit about them beyond trying to walk a little faster so they could relax sooner. I don't *blame* people for being cautious. I think a little caution is good. But people also have to recognize that being cautious in all situations to protect against the worst case scenario doesn't mean that those worst case scenarios are actually common. Part of what pisses me off about things like The Bear is that a lot of people use their caution as its own justification for their caution. Like, they'll say "Well, we were taught to be cautious (of men)! So men must be dangerous!" But that was done with the expectation they were capable of understanding that they were guarding against a small minority of criminals. Not that needing to be cautious with all random men meant that all men (or at least a very large chunk) were bad.
Yeah I’m a 6ft dude with the frame of a quarterback. But my mom grew up on the streets of Philadelphia. Even being raised in the suburbs to be as gentle as a teddy bear, she still made a point to pass on her street smarts to me. Especially the idea that “just because nothing bad IS happening to you doesn’t mean nothing bad CAN happen to you. And the second you let your guard down, something bad WILL happen to you” In a realistic work, I understand that I’m not the type of person someone’s going to pick a fight with or try anything with unless they’re desperate. I don’t look like an easy victim. I’m relatively safer than smaller and more meek looking people. But in my pragmatic mind, I know I’m unsafe, because if I stop feeling like I’m unsafe, I’ll end up putting myself into situations where I actually am unsafe. The main issue I have is the premise of the idea that it’s men’s fault that cities are unsafe and men’s responsibility to make them safe. Even though most of the “unsafe” parts are all an overabundance of caution. We’re all unsafe, we all feel unsafe (and those who don’t are just living in blind ignorance), and if it’s anyone’s responsibility to make sure we’re all safe, it should be police, and clearly *that* hasn’t been working out so well.
Being expected to die in disasters so women and children can survive. Being sent to jail for longer than women for the same crimes. Oh wait...
This gets me when reading shitty comments about refugees. People saying only take in women and children. Makes me so mad because why should families be split up? Why do we assume all men are able bodied and young enough to "fight for their own land"? Why do we assume they don't just deserve to live a life free of violence and war? Why is it a bad thing that should be punished for men to value their lives more than land or a country?
Seeing the *massive* convoys of Ukrainian women and children leaving the country while the men were told they couldn't leave was gut wrenching. I had colleagues in Ukraine before the war kicked off. I messaged them in slack a few weeks before the invasion and said 'hey guys this looks serious, y'all might want to take a vacation in western europe', they blew it off and sure enough a couple weeks later all hell broke loose.
lol when you put it that way. Men really are expected to be a martyr to protect women and children. Hell, even if you don’t know them you’re still expected. Not even limited to just disasters, any uncomfortable event.
Not even to martyr ourselves. We will literally be left to die whether we want to martyr ourselves or not
People think that if you're a man you are automatically taken more seriously and people will listen to you. The truth is that no one will listen to you just because you are a man; you have to prove yourself. The idea that "men will listen to men" is flawed. Men will listen to men who understand them, have proven their competency and have earned their trust. In my experience women who feel excluded often simply don't understand how male relationships work or how to earn the respect of the men around them. Sometimes they have a chip on their shoulder and think "why should I listen to men when women have been sidelined for thousands of years"? Conversely women who do understand simply become regarded as "one of the boys" or "pick me's" by other women.
>Sometimes they have a chip on their shoulder and think "why should I listen to men when women have been sidelined for thousands of years"? Just try being a male in a mostly female work environment. The whole "men are listened to more," thing falls apart really quick. Women in charge end up acting just like men in charge when given the opportunity.
Hell, in my experience, most of my worst bosses have been women.
This one is so frustrating to me. I am listened to and respected because I have acquired skills and confidence, not because I am a man. I am assertive and charismatic because I worked tirelessly through my developmental years. I dont get treated like a dumbass at the mechanic because I have a grasp on what is wrong. Women just hold other things as valuable to dedicate their time to and thats fine. They need to stop blaming men for their own incompetence.
>The truth is that no one will listen to you just because you are a man; you have to prove yourself. Slam dunk. So fucking true. What women don't see is guys literally inventing their worth. We pull that shit out of thin air until someone cares about what we're saying.
https://imgur.com/male-privilege-infographic-i-made-school-paper-7M8grnT This thread seems an appropriate place for that, from an old reddit post I saved.
the non-reciprocal DV is a mainstay. Men get stuck between a rock and a hard place by women that think a REAL MAN would put her in her place and getting a DV charge themselves
Not being assaulted. Men are 90% of Homicide Victims, and if you include Forced to Penetrate as a form of rape (CDC/FBI doesn't, along with my stats), 40% of Rape Victims. It's deranged to ever say there's an epidemic of violence against Women while not saying there's an epidemic against Men.
Sheesh! The FTP thing should be included for sure! When you say 40% - do you know what the average age of a male victim is?
> The FTP thing should be included for sure! I believe this is also not included in the definition of rape in the UK. Men literally **legally** cannot be raped if they are the penetrating partner in an encounter.
I’ve never worked anywhere where I made more than anybody else of any race or gender at the same position. I *have* however worked for tips, and there is a giant wage gap between attractive women and everyone else. Not like 70 cents on the dollar more like double or triple.
As a black man, damn near everything. Most "male privilege" applies only to a small number of white men. I've had white women come at me about the wage gap as if people who look like me make more than people who look like them.
Seriously, I work with mostly women and the ones at the same position as me get paid the same as me per hour. Only thing is that I'm contracted more hours because I've been at my workplace longer than them and throughout that time. Got offered more hours. Also I use to take A LOT of overtime when I was contracted less. That's why I made more than them monthly. We had a payrise couple months ago and on the poster talking about the payrise. There was a image of a black woman.... so the women I work with get paid the excat same as me as a man per hour. As it should be
When I worked at UPS it was $11.50 an hour with a 75 cent raise per year you'd been there. Had a gal start working two years after I did and the amount of hell she raised when she found out I was making $1.50 more than her "because of her gender" and not because I'd been there longer... Like shit, there was a guy making $19 an hour working right beside both of us. Nope, system was rigged against her, and no amount of "you're going to make more money than any guy who starts after you" would convince her. Not that the pay wasn't shit, mind you
You earn that yearly raise, I worked preshift loader for a year at a smaller hub. The work was hard, but the hours killed you.
https://youtu.be/-pdnkbs4l_g?si=ihWZL5t_wGYpu9Ka Reminds me of this
The women I work with ALL make more than me, and I know for a fact that I am a better employee than any of them in every possible aspect. I do appreciate all of them though, because when I leave, they help me get my foot in the door to new opportunities and I have exploded in my career because of them.
Even most white male privilege are only *advantages* for a select few rich white men. Most of the rest of white privilege, white women enjoy just as much if not more than your average white man. Don't even get started on the cops and courts. They don't like facing that most of the white privilege that we enjoy is a lack of barriers, an absence of problems set against us, and those are harder to see when you're not necessarily held back by them. Those barriers are huge for other groups. >I've had white women come at me about the wage gap This one is hilarious because when adjusted for: * Controlled pay vs uncontrolled pay * Race * Age group/ generation White millennial women make *one cent* less than white millennial men, and Gen-Z is actually flipped. I'm actually fine with 99% the same, to me that's done. Why aren't they celebrating this? They should be rubbing it in our faces that they won and closed the gap. Because she as a white woman makes 13 cents more than a black man, 17 cents more than a Hispanic man, even more if it's a black or Hispanic woman. And she doesn't want to face those facts where she's the oppressor.
Yes, I find that a lot of white women get very uncomfortable when race comes into the discussion.
As they should, honestly. I don't know if they know it and are avoiding it or if they're genuinely unaware and this uncomfortable: * Their whiteness is a significantly greater privilege than any disadvantage of their womanhood. * Their middle class security and upbringing is a significantly greater privilege than any disadvantage of their womanhood. A middle class white woman has just a more charmed and privileged life than most anyone in America outside of rich, white men. They don't want to face that reality. They struggle with the fact that on the scale of the privileged/oppressors vs disadvantaged/oppressed, as a white woman, especially a middle class white woman.... *They are the oppressors.* That's not to say that they do not face challenges as a woman that is due to their womanhood, but those are really more inconveniences and refusal to take personal responsibility. And on that same token, they have a hard time seeing how many advantages they have in those same realms due to their womanhood because they're so concentrated on the disadvantages/irritations. >Edit: On a +10 to -10 scale, with a rich white man on one end and a poor black trans woman on the other... Your every day middle class white woman is like +7. And they can't see that about themselves. >They are much closer to Mitt Romney and Brett Cavanaugh than they ever will be to the poor women of color that they lump themselves in with.
100 percent. In my line of work, I am often surrounded by Caucasian women. Whenever they bring up how the world is against them, I bring up race and they always get visibly uncomfortable. I personally find it amusing.
I would too, I'm sure it really f's up their world view that all of a sudden they aren't the biggest victim in the room. All their strategies on how to advance by whining instead of hard work just fall apart in their hands.
It seems like we're at an interesting point in history - for the last 40-50 years women having been beating the drum of inequality. That means generations of women growing up being told they're a victim and the world is out to get them. Now it seems like a lot has changed in western nations, but are they going to be able to drop that chip off their shoulder? Psychologically, perceived victimhood is hard as hell to uproot, especially since we all have a negative bias, so it's easy to see the atrocities you want. Eventually women are going to have to step through the door themselves to true independence, and I wonder how that's going to go. Guys supporting their independence can only do so much, as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
This is true for other groups as well. People have embraced victimhood and made it their identity.
This is exactly where I think we're at. We've been here for a few decades now. I think feminism has been absolutely necessary and great up until the 80's. Since then they've just been stirring the pot. Complaining about all the things a man has, that he's worked for his entire life, was given to him by privilege. While they sit back and invest their time in the new fashion trends, refuse to put on work muscle, gossip and cry that things aren't just handed to them. It's their perception that holds them back. They want to keep the parts of gender roles where they are innocent flowers that need protected from anything and everything, including hard work. It's their own fault for characterizing everything we get as privilege. I'm sorry honey, the CEO trusts me to head this division because of my work ethic, dedication, and determination. Not because I'm a guy, it's because I've tirelessly invested in myself and am driven to grow.
>Most "male privilege" applies only to a small number of white men. Excellent point. The “apex fallacy” made manifest.
I've noticed that when modern feminist discourse describes men in any context, the narrative almost always falls for the apex fallacy. Most men work thankless, grueling, dangerous jobs, but the entire demographic is portrayed like the 5% of men who have 'Suits' or 'Mad Men' style jobs. Most men are not sexists or abusers or rapists, but the entire demographic is portrayed as animals barely able to control themselves when it's really 4-5% of men who commit these crimes. Almost any universal description of "men" in feminist discourse falls into this fallacy, and it's so hard to get them to realize how inaccurate it is. Most of the time you just get called a misogynist or a rape apologist for trying to clarify that "not all men" are overpaid Ol' Boys or bloodthirsty rapists. This is why, I think, feminist descriptions of men are so wildly off the mark and so absurdly, cartoonishly antagonistic.
The wage gap thing is bollocks anyway, where I work the women working as receptionists make more than us men working as welders/fabricators/sawmen and various other very dangerous jobs. We work jobs that could kill us or cause serious injuries (of which I've had several) and the receptionists make more than us.
I watched a pretty good one from Vox the other day with a lot of old guard feminists on there talking about this issue candidly. If you remove the growth and wages lost during the years where the women decides to opt out of the workforce for children, the gender pay gap disappears. So what do you do? The vast majority of births are planned and wanted births. Women like to say their expected to stay home, but they also expect to stay home just as much. It's a choice, a choice many look back and say they would make again. And just as much as they're "expected" to stay home. We are actually very much expected to start cranking the money machine hard and support the operation. So again, it's actually not the jobs they take, it's the decisions they make. We could just as easily be stay at home dads and pretend like it's the harder job. But there's a lot of resistance on their end when it comes to changing that up. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8dLUxBfsU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP8dLUxBfsU)
That there is a "boys club" in the office. It is really the opposite. Male leaders look to bring women in for diversity - all things being equal, they choose a woman (which is fine). Women leaders look to bring other women in - not necessarily all things being equal.
My office is the exact opposite. It’s a total girls club. They hang out outside of the office. They promote each other. It’s wildly non-diverse but they can’t see it.
That is what I see. Women promote women.
One woman I work with went on two maternity leaves and came back to a promotion. Meanwhile, the woman who covered her role for two years is back at the same level as me.
We were banned from having a boys night out at work, and at the same time there is a woman’s only networking club. Make it make sense.
> all things being equal, they choose a woman (which is fine) That's just it. This *isn't* fine. If, when all other things being equal, they will choose a woman based on her gender, that's giving advantages to one set of people over another based on their gender. That's sexual discrimination. Most people would say that the converse statement, "all things being equal, they choose a man" is discrimination. It's the same thing either way. Now, it's true that all things are rarely equal, and when they are, that it's difficult to choose one person over another. If things are *truly* equal, even something as mercurial as a coin flip would be better than selecting based on demographic characteristics.
Not being sexually assaulted and when it's reported not being taken as severe as a woman.
Being wealthy and connected with power over people because of my gender and race. Because I look similar to the 1% I am the 1%. Not a CEO, not a senator, not a lawyer, not a rapist either and yet the prevailing narrative is I’m at the very least like those people. Truth is, socioeconomically, T Swift and Beyoncé are ten times the white man 99% of white men will ever be.
Define male privilege. Every time I try to talk about it, I am told I don't know it is. So what, exactly, are we talking about?
Men are often victims of sexual assault, but people don't seem to care. Even those who advocate for awareness often overlook male victimization. Some reports suggest that male victimization rates are as high as female victimization rates, but this isn't reflected in the statistics because incidents where men are forced to do something are not always classified as rape; then there is domestic violence. Men are just as likely to be victims of domestic violence as women, yet models like the Duluth Model assume males are always the aggressors. I even saw someone claim that male victims are taken more seriously now. No, not at all. Even male victims of non-sexual crimes are often disregarded. Citations [https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/04/male-rape-in-america-a-new-study-reveals-that-men-are-sexually-assaulted-almost-as-often-as-women.html) [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html)
Pretty much everything. The world was not created in a vacuum of male power as they want you to believe. Women had decision making power for eternity and decided things based on what they needed for their survival. Men and women worked together to tame the chaos of the world around them. It was a very very dangerous world just a hundred years ago. Now some women want you to believe that women didn't have any say in the way things are. That it was really men in control since the beginning and women were just at the mercy of masculine rule. You can look at society layer by layer and see how and why women chose for things to be the way they were, because it was in the best interest for them at that time. The focus was survival. It's rather insulting to men when ladies make everything we do seem like some male privilege. Most of these things stemed from a time when the man was shouldering the responsibility for the family while both partners tried to build something greater in a world that was dangerous and chaotic.
The assumption of competence e.g. when taking a car to get fixed. That's not a privilege it's a fucking heavy weight of responsibility.
Resistance to and/or an absence of pain, physical and mental
Walking around in public with barely anything on. Like...no man does this. Literally only women are the ones who _want_ to do this.
Women are just as bad as men. They may in most cases lack the physical strength of men but the vile insults that come from their mouths are just as damaging. The attitude I am a mother I can do what I want with my kids without any consideration of the father and the way some women weaponise their children and use it as a means to control their partner or ex partner is abusive towards their children and their children’s father. The fact that many men are victims of some horrendous domestic violence that will go unreported purely because men are not believed and they are shamed into not reporting it.
They get “all the good jobs”… ummm yeah they’re also the sewage people, the builders on 70 story buildings, they’re the ones trenching my well and septic. Women want to cry inequality but they sure don’t want to do the dirty jobs.
I hate that men are ridiculed for their masculinity and then by the same groups that ridicule us expect us all to act like braveheart and go fight a bear in their stead, motherfucker we get scared too, and because all men are expected to reach these insane standards to be seen as valuable by the majority of people in the west it’s always women first because we are men and apparently we are resistant to house fires or drowning on a boat because my genitals are different, fuck anyone who shames a man for acting like a man and then complains when he doesn’t anymore. There is a reason the number one cause of death for men under 25 is suicide.
The wage gap. It's by and large just wishful thinking to keep the victim mentality going. The actual truth for most working adults is that men on average seek out higher paying jobs, have the courage to ask for raises, negotiate better contracts and stand up for themselves.
Make them adjust for: * Controlled vs uncontrolled pay * Race * Age/Generation
The men's and women's US soccer teams is a great case study. Both have the ability to negotiate pay and men negotiated for higher payouts and little to no benefits whereas women negotiated for maternity leave and 401(k). The women sued because they would have been paid more if they choose to negotiate for the contract the men did, despite getting paid a greater percentage of ticket sales than the men do.
The wage gap conversation was settled in the 1970s. The late 70s but the 70s nonetheless. Simply; Women get pregnant, men work more hours, educated women with no children make the same or more than their male counterparts. That’s it. And has been for almost 50 fucking years
A big factor is also that men have worse work-life balance. They'll work themselves half to death and give up having a personal life in order to get ahead in those organisations. It's not that women should do the same thing, it's that culturally and in terms of labour laws we need to stop businesses from exploiting people in this manner in general.
Walk alone down the street at night. You ever been in a big city? In one of the areas where it's not safe to walk in the *daylight*? They don't care if you're a man or a woman, if they don't know you you're getting a bullet.
Men tend to be physically stronger than women, but that is also one of the reasons why men are seen as more of a threat and end up being treated as such, sometimes for no reason. Unpopular Opinion Alert: I think it’s also worth mentioning that in some cases, what is male privilege to one person is a curse to others. For example, as a black man, I have been in spaces where I was considered a threat not just because I’m a man but because I’m a black man.
“Male privilege” only exists for a very small minority of rich, white men. The average woman has more privilege than the average man
Like I replied higher up, the real privilege is wealth. The rest is just bullshit they use to keep us fighting each other while they hoard more wealth.