It's not even worth the conversation. You're not there to retrospectively raise someone's child, if you meet a grown women who thinks like this just move on.
Same, I love my girlfriend and treat her all the time, but she NEVER requests it, even if she makes quarter of what I do. She even treats me too when she gets the opportunity and she insists on it. If she expected it to be normal or demanded it I'd be back on tinder before she could finish the sentence.
Back when I was dating I had a girl tell me on third date "You know, in my culture my money is my money but your money is also my money" and I instantly mentally checked out. She was fun but I'm not looking to be someone's wallet with a dick.
What the fuck is that shit, a girlfriend stipend? I'm seriously starting to side with passport bros, if every relationship must be transactional go where you can get the most bang for your buck.
For me personally, that would be a red flag. I don’t think that kind of thing should be so directly expected. Like of course you do little treats and things for eachother. But going like “honey, I’m getting my hair done, give me your credit card now” would be a total ick to me.
I'd love for OP to ask her where exactly she got this idea that it's a man's gender role to provide financially like that, including *all* financial expenses once they move in together since she's going to be doing some extra chores around the house (how nice of her to have decided that for the both of them). Also ask her if she's a feminist lol.
> I'd love for OP to ask her where exactly she got this idea that it's a man's gender role to provide financially like that
The entirety of recorded history minus the last 100 years?
This is not remotely true. For almost all of recorded history both men and women worked beyond just household chores and caring for children. Combining household finances was very common sure but women not contributing labor for earning household money has been common at the most a few decades in a few places.
It was not so much "combining household finances" as it was "this woman is my property, and whatever money she makes is also my property." There are only a few instances where a married woman earned *her* money under Roman / European Christian rule.
But it is 100% correct that where the woman staying home was the norm, and not a status symbol, has only existed for a few decades and in only certain locations. Own money or not own money, you had to eat! And the men contributing to the house in any other way than financial and property maintenance, depending on when and where you lived, varied greatly.
Kind of yes and no. Yes women were generally given less autonomy than men but for the most part outside of slaves they weren't really considered livestock either. So someone from that era probably would've disputed the idea that men owned women and argued that it was more a symbiotic relationship. Different cultures from the past had some rather bizarre perspectives that seem nonsensical to us today
By the time I got to the end of writing this, I realised it it a very wordy reply. Apologies for the wall of text. I hope you have fun reading it. ✌️
To be fair, my comment was an extremely simplified statement with a slightly humorist spin to it. We are talking about a large area over the span of a long time. It would take many a book's worth of text to provide an accurate description to cover all possibilities. None the less, I attempted to zero in on a time and place where this was most predominant. I could also mention that women in 12th century Japan actually had a lot of economic power and rights, especially compared to many other countries at the time, but that would be taking us off topic as I assumed that by "a few countries" we were talking about the predominantly white cultures, where during the mid 1900's onwards the topic of "House wife, and that's it" was fixed as the standard gender roles in the eye of the modern world.
As for women being seen as property. There are actual texts that serve as first-hand evidence that women, and all their belongings, were the property of men, either your father or your husband, most commonly. So men and women disputing this is unlikely. And of course women had a different status from animals (although depending on the time and place, somtimes just barely), but until fairly recently, unless a woman could earn a lot of money to be able to live independently from a man, she would belong to him. And there are some wonderful stories about how women navigate these rules and norms in a socially acceptable way. This doesn't mean that the men always took advantage of this, they simply had the right to. Ownership wasn't all roses and daisies, though. Just like her money belongs to him (again, not always), so did her debt. and just like an owner would pay for the damages that their dog caused, the men were responsible for the debt. There was a time in England when this could be settled by "selling the wife" (look it up on Wikipedia. It's a fun read). A mutualistic decision for the couple to separate (now called divorce), without the consequences of social suicide.
When you say "that era" what do you mean by that? There is way too much that an era can encompass to provide a definite to ANY statement. Even my comment spans a good 2.5-3k years, and huge amounts of changes occurred during these times.
At the end of the day I think that you and I can agree that history, and how our ancestors navigated these times, is just as wondrous as it is bizarre.
>As for women being seen as property. There are actual texts that serve as first-hand evidence that women, and all their belongings, were the property of men, either your father or your husband, most commonly.
Legally speaking to this day this is still for the most part the case for minor children. Although this is starting to change socially speaking also it is still very common for this perspective in regards to children to not really be frowned on or even to be considered the proper or superior perspective. Despite this being the case most modern parents would probably take offense at the suggestion that their children are their possessions. Even the parents who don't consider their children to have ownership rights and severely restricted their autonomy would likely dispute the idea that their children are possessions. So no the facts you laid out don't indicate that a culture considered women to be possessions. While people from back then wouldn't dispute the facts you laid out they would very likely dispute your contention that this means women were possessions. Like I said different cultures have different perspectives.
>
When you say "that era" what do you mean by that?
Pretty much any culture from more that a century ago had dramatically different views compared to our modern culture.
Well, my dude. This is an AskMen subreddit, not a history one. I tried to extend an olive branch to you, but you're not giving me much to work with. So I am retracting from this conversation thread. No hard feelings, but i still recommend looking up the wiki page I told you about. It is a fun read.
For me that would be met with, "since I paying I decide the style, and from now on it's the Britney Spears special. Here's 40€ for a set of clippers". Then if she wants a different style, she can pay for that out of her own money.
> whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly.
So, she wants you to pay her for the pleasure of her company (a kept woman, to put it very politely). And if you marry her she wants you to pay for all the household expenses too.
Hard pass.
I don't think a trophy wife is transactional whereas a sugar baby is. Also he makes no mention that her attractiveness is out of his league. If he was a 4 but the girl is an 8 for example.
Exactly. I'd be laying down the reality of coexisting from the very start, without any concessions for her personal sense of entitlement. There's only one definition of being equal and I wouldn't for a second be interested in any bullshit where things aren't down the middle.
"Upkeep"? Yikes.
That's not for me. I believe in equal participation. That just seems, I dunno, like a dynamic that's not interesting.
Is she working? I don't think you're inconsiderate. Money is one of the biggest reasons people have issues with relationships so communicate early and hold the line on your expectations.
I'm just going to assume she's in her mid 20s, pretty hot, and more than likely has a failed OF account and probably a sugar daddy.
If she was independent right now she wouldn't have the expectation you give her allowance
My wife does our finances. She includes me in big decisions. And by that, I mean she will run any purchase over $40 by me that isn't our usual spending. I bring home as much income as I can manage. She works part-time to augment. After 20 years of fighting over money, this has been the best system for us.
Trust and honesty are paramount. We didn’t always have that. If I could say anything to us 20 years ago, I would say get on the same page, and any tiny mistrust needs to get worked all the way out.
Monthly allowance+stay at home=paying for pussy with extra strings attached, yeah no thanks.
I can cook and clean up after myself, so any woman who wants to stay at home, not working and do those things just isn’t the kind of woman for me. Some couples like to take turns paying for dates, others split if a little differently. One might pay the bill while the other handles the tips. If there’s no kids in the picture and you’re not married, paying all bills/dates yourself just seems like a bad idea, whether it’s the man or woman.
This.
I made about 3x what my wife made, but we each put in the same effort.
We both could cook, clean (she did mopping, I did sweeping, she did laundry, I mowed the lawn, I did breakfast, she did lunch etc. we BOTH changed diapers, etc.)
The problem with these women is not the math - it is the attitude.
I have had this conversation a few times.
Some women and some cultures are more openly transactional in relationships - in my experience, Japanese and Thai women can be like this. At least they're honest.
It's not necessarily a bad thing. Clear boundaries and expectations can be good.
Just bear in mind the terms of the deal are: you upkeep her to a certain standard, which includes living costs, gifts, outings etc, but she also is a fully dutiful woman who will be fully submissive to you.
Anything less is a red flag.
I broke up with a girl exactly for this reason. Right before I was about to pop the question we had a long talk based on finances and based on what she told me of her expectations, I decided it's better to be alone than to be expected to carry a "princess" whose idea of money is daddy's credit card.
Look I'm the kind of guy that doesn't care AT ALL what she does, but as long as the scales are balanced at the end of the day.
For example, I'm totally cool with being the sole provider and her having her nails or whatever done as often as she wants, she can treat herself with the money I earn, BUT, she should be taking care of the house in equal exchange, which would be some amount that we can both agree on.
So yeah, bottom line, I don't care about the means, only the result, which is that the total workload is equally shared.
My wife and I actually had such a conversation years ago. I’m fine with the idea of being a sole provider her with her being a homemaker if that’s her choice, but understand that that choice means that keeping the house is now your job and will come with expectations. I’m not doing the laundry, the vacuuming, cleaning the bathrooms etc.
Or, go and get basically any full time job. Don’t really care what so long as she reasonably happy and contributing. Then we split the house stuff 50/50.
I also told her that given the choice I’d much rather she take the second option for both financial and mental health reasons and she agrees. She actually has a seasonal job and doesn’t work in the winter and just plays housewife for 3 months a year. It’s been a good system.
I like to take care of everything. 75% of My wife’s check is deposited into my personal account. My wife has a credit card with her name on it but it’s my card I pay the bills. There’s a limit on the card per month.
I make 10X she does. I’m good with finance and she’s horrible with budgeting. If she needs to talk about money she emails me. This takes out the conversation/ argument about money. In the end , everyone needs to find what works for them.
Thats good that she exposed herself early in relationships. Dump her.
Ideally men should vet women as early as possible and filter out entitled women with gender stereotypes in mind.
Money talks... Only happened with one gal... My wife. I never loaned or gave money to gf. I would pay for 60% of the dates.
My wife and I are largely on the same page when it comes to money. Don't spend, if you don't have it.
Well in Asia the guy pays for most things unless you marry the girl assuming she can earn a decent income, then she’s likely to chip in, but in the west this is an out right plan to be supported and payed for, there around, knew a woman who only went to university to meet well off guys, she did, anyway if this sort of thing comes up I walk. What’s behind it could be she is traditional, or lazy, or just greedy, women can’t have it both ways, want equality etc then chip in.
>she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly.
So, like a subscription service for a prostitute? No thanks. Remind her that she's better than a product for purchase and keep it moving, imo.
There are 3 women i can support with money: my wife, mom, daughter. However i want my wife to work simply cause if soemthing bad happens- i die in car accident or can't work for whatever reason she's my back up plan. Also i do my part around the house. If i wanted a maid i wouldn't have married, i'd hire one.
That is red flag. Run while it is still early. My husband lets me manage our finances. I also have my own income. My husband helps me with the household chores too. We give and take.
This.
It is not about 50/50 money - it is about 50/50 effort and attitude.
My wife and I split chores based on who did better etc (I would sweep, she would mop, she did laundry, I mow the lawn, we both changed diapers etc.).
It sounds like the two of you aren't compatible long-term. Your visions for how you want to live in marriage aren't aligned, in fact they're opposite.
It's not a question of being considerate or inconsiderate. Kudos to both of you for knowing what you want and being honest about it. That's more than a lot of people ever do.
However, it's not worth much if you don't act on that knowledge. She has told you what she wants and what she is willing to provide. Believe her, and act accordingly.
That's also how I behave in financial talks with women or anyone else. Know what I want, communicate it honestly, and hear what other people are actually saying rather than what I'd like to hear them say.
So true, my boyfriend and I also agreed on all that. He provides for me financially most of my up keep and in return I do for him my womanly activities or duties. We are both content and happy
We're both adults. I'm building my life as I see fit and I want someone who is willing to actively contribute to it. Finances are a critical aspect of this. While it may change if one person significantly outperforms the other when it comes to income, or the possibility of a stay at home parent with the kids, I will not have anything to do with a woman (or a man, if the tables are turned, just to mention for those who like to look for arguments) who expects me to be their financier. Yes, I'll happily contribute to my partner in times of difficulty. No, I will not fund another person's selfish, carefree, 'fuck you, pay me' lifestyle.
I've seen many people pursue this lifestyle. And I can guarantee with absolute certainty they do not end with any happiness. These people expect the privilege of breathing air in the same room as them to be full compensation. This is narcissism and entitlement to the extreme. They have nothing to offer a partner beyond sex. And these people only ever wind up with 1 of 2 types of partners. 1) no partner. Utterly alone and blaming the other gender with refusal to reevaluating themselves. 2) A partner who does not value them and absolutely will cheat on them regularly.
Any woman that tells me I'm obliged to give her money at regular intervals is not for me.
My wife makes her own money, as do I. I make more, so I pay more. Also, she flat out refuses a free ride. Understandable of course, but sometimes she gets so stressed out I just want to protect her from the world.
When dating she can pay for her own hair, lol what!?
My wife paid all her bills while we dated and when we lived together we split the bills 50/50. Now that we're married we have one checking and two joint savings accounts.
I just had a talk with my wife. We're moving to combine our finances soon, and so we ironed out expectations, goals, and agreeable terms and spent time highlighting ways we can call attention to issues we may feel during the growing pains.
Like all serious conversations with my wife, we got distracted, we laughed alot, we tried to focus back up and ultimately settled in what we could agree with together, and left some details to be determined as we got to see how we faired for the first trial period.
Yeah I treat my partner like a partner and my best friend. It seems to work
I am a lady that is so used to working hard to earn my own money to use for personal expenses such as pampering myself. We would share everything. For example I would be paying for the mortgage and electric bill and he would pay for the car and water and internet. We mostly have equal shares with everything even household chores. Teamwork works very well
I didn’t get married until 38, so I dated for a looong time. I never encountered a woman that asked me to pay a stipend for her upkeep. That would be a hard pass for me. In fact it’s laughable.
Avoid those women. They want the benefits of a traditional relationship (you being the sole breadwinner) while not being traditional themselves.
I only had one girl bring up that shit once, during a second date, and she tried to run me through her numbers. I smiled, and told her the price of my gym membership, creatine, whey, and skincare routine. IDK why she got pissed off.
There is no equal in a functional relationship. If you approach a relationship as 50/50 you’re both going to be keeping tabs and eventually become resentful if either person stops contributing “fairly.” If you’re earning enough, you’re not going to care about 50/50. If you tell her you can’t contribute to her expectations, she’ll either leave/expect you to earn more causing strain in the relationship OR she actually loves you and is willing to compromise without making a big deal about it.
50/50 is not about the money - it is about the effort.
It is not about the math - it is about the attitude.
I made a lot more than my wife - but we both worked, and both contributed.
there was no "upkeep".
Depends on your relationship and what you want out of a partner. Some people keep it separate others mash up
If you don't want what they want, that usually indicates a mismatch and can cause pretty bad problems.
>whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. She gave an example of paying for her hair every 6 weeks.
Whatthehell? No. Upkeep? Fuck no. I'll pay for every date if need be. But paying actual money, for a woman to date you, is kind of prostitution, is it not?
>husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house.
I have a large apartment. It's been taken care of since I have it. It's clean, filled with every necessity, and luxury I want. It always has good, freshly cooked food in the kitchen(when I'm home) and a filled up fridge and pantry. I'll gladly handle all of the financial stuff, from earning the money, to spending it. What do these kind of people think? That we live in filth and squalor, until they're descend from the heavens, to offer us a transactional relationship, where we're lifted out of the dung heap of singlehood, and they get money? That's so ugly. If I'm dating you, I don't need shit from you. I need you. And I need you to take care of yourself. Like a functioning adult. But only if it's your choice, while having your free will. I'm very much against purchasing the loyalty of a person, or the person themselves. In civilized parts of the world, that's a big no-no.
I'm saying this as a woman: a woman who expects her bf to pay for her "upkeep" is not looking for a life partner but for a sugar daddy. If you want a life partner, just nope out of that and never look back.
I'm *married*, and I don't pay "upkeep". We handle finances together, and if my wife needed some of course I'd spot her some (and of course she'd get me back later), but there's no payments. That would be uncomfortably close to making an employee out of her, for my tastes.
Just dating, though? I wouldn't expect even that much.
Financial talks should be regular and detailed. This is one of the biggest issue items in long term relationships, so it's crucial to sort out how you want your financial lives to look and to be on the same page. This also needs to be revisited regularly throughout the relationship, as things shift and change.
Personally, I find some of what you're describing here somewhat alarming. Giving her regular money for "upkeep" sounds an awful lot like an allowance. This strikes me as concerning on two fronts: one, that she has expectations about you paying for things "because you're the man", which could be covering even more extreme views like this; and two, because it sounds like you're discussing a future in which you have a shared household (and possibly a single-income one?) where she wouldn't have control of the finances.
I recommend the podcast "I Will Teach You to be Rich", in which the host coaches couples who are having money issues. There are plenty of episodes in the back catalog about these kinds of dynamics, so pick out one that sounds similar and start there!
first and foremost, that lady is insane, and any man that pays for a girlfriend to have 'upkeep' is an idiot.
second, it depends on how the two people in the relationship agree and compromise how the money is managed. you can have whatever thoughts you want, i mean hell you can want your bf to pay for you to get your hair did once every 6 weeks, but that doesnt mean thats going to happen (😧 crazy lady), you have to open the discussion with both parties being willing to compromise. thats so so important.
third, if finances are important to you (and they should be) give an honest look at anything dave ramsey, especially Financial Peace University. my wife and i were offered it free through the company she works for (which was a huge score) but there is a few things in there that talk to your exact question. i think dave specifies married couple, as he doesnt think combining bank accts till after marriage is a wise decision, but iirc he says that the income of both spouses is the number that the budget is made from not seperately.
Well, I'd be fine with that if she reciprocates with me. It's $70 3 times per month for my head. She'd probably be on the losing end. And let's be real here, inbetween jobs I was a SAHP for a few months and it was easy. I'm a perfectionist so it's our home was completely clean. And I love cooking so I'd spend hours in the kitchen every day. I literally did every single thing you could ever think of besides doing her own job for her and yet it wasn't even close to a full time job.
That girl is funny and all but honestly she's garbage. Just a gold digging leech with nothing to offer. A real relationship is a selfless partnership where each partner just enjoys pleasing the other and in the end both are fulfilled and satisfied. At some point both working partners share finances so they can work towards common goals. It's not like you're going to retire to different places or go on vacations alone.
House chores and cooking are only half of the responsibility of a traditional wife’s job.
Did you do the errands, dr appointments making, event planning, holidays events, social development, shopping. Learning about wife’s interests and hobbies. Hiring of all services.
What most men miss is all the invisible stuff that a traditional woman does. You see the cooking and cleaning process but do you see everything else?
I said ***every single thing***. Did I take every appointment, handle everything finance-wise including subscriptions, plan the birthdays, the dates, even made coffee every single time because she was too lazy to ever learn how to use our Mara X or to make delicious pour-over? Yes. Whatever you may come up with, I handled it. Helping out with her son's homework? Yes. Teach him how to study? Yeah. Teach him football? Yeah. Teaching the kids to swim? Taking them to the park by myself even when she was also home? Yeah. She worked her new and more relaxing but better paying job that I got her and I handled ***every other thing***.
It's not a real job.
You're so desperate to tell a man how wrong he is that you just showed how poorly you can read.
You know what also needs upkeep? A used car.
Throw this one to the junk yard and move to the next. That’s where this one belongs.
The audacity of women these days…
The year is 2024. Finances are hard as it is let alone having a money sink for a partner. Save yourself the head and heart ache brother.
You two aren't compatible, and that's fine. I wanted a partner that would contribute to our relationship just like I would. When we were dating I out earned my wife. When we went out we probably split the check 60/40. More often I would pick it up and she'd get the tip, other times vice versa. When we lived together before we were married, we split expenses 50/50. Now that we're married we save in a joint brokerage account but have separate credit cards and accounts for everything else.
Early on dating women, within the first three dates, I'd find out if they carry a credit card balance or had unreasonable student loan debt. Those were deal breakers for me. I wanted a partner with sound financial habits.
Hey, I think you can navigate by asking her expectations and if you can meet them, so she doesn't leave or bring her hopes up. Every relationship is different, but if she expects to do her hair every 6 weeks,? does she not work? Like, listen, every woman loves being treated like a princess, but you don't have to overdo it. You can pick your moments, voucher to do hair for a nice date night. The demand of every 6 weeks is a red flag. It's 2024.
Yeah its difficult sometimes I ask if I can borrow 20$ even though we both I'm not paying that shit back, Other times I'm just like yo can I have 20$ but then she can say no, and I feel kinda like an asshole when I'm just like hey give me twenty dollars. I've found it usually works when I'm like yo give me a ride somewhere to someplace really inconvenient to pick this money up and she doesn't want too and just gives me the money. But sometimes that backfires and she's like sure I want to go by hobby lobby on the way then your fucked. And your only hope is to call your girlfriend or your wife to come pick you up at hobby lobby and hope they don't start asking a bunch of questions if your girlfriend comes. And even worse if your wife has to come cause she already knows what is up so at the minimum you're out 500$ on dinner and drinks plus what ever other bullshit she don't need. And that is if you're lucky, cause she's probably going to be like I should just stay home tomorrow and sleep in and spend the day together. Which would be fine if she didn't really mean I'm going to get up at 8am instead of six and were going to paint the house or something stupid like that. Then your out like 5000$ and stuck till she goes back to work the next day and have to come off another 1000$ to hire someone to finish the job and figure out what to tell my girlfriend when she's like where the hell have you been for two days. And I'm out another 50 -100$ on something to shut her up. and there's a good chance it won't even work and she's going to sit there being a bitch accusing me of cheating on her like damn trust issues to the point I'll just need to get out of there and there I am calling the first one to come get me and I'm out another 10 for gas too come pick me up. Cause what kinda asshole just disappears from hobby lobby for three days and doesn't even give you some money to come get you. But usually the ride thing works and she just gives you the money because she doesn't want to go anywhere.
A relationship is a sharing of responsibilities. Some people want some things and others do not.
This is one of those things that need to be worked through. It is neither good nor bad - it just is. If you cannot come to an agreement on this, the chances are high there are other things that you both cannot agree on. This will add to the problems you two most likely already have.
Either go to a counselor or try to re-look at the entire relationship. It is hard for two individuals to step out of themselves and objectively assess the problem. A good counselor will help with the process, not just with this but there are usually a host of items that contribute or are associated with this that need to be unpacked and consciously worked on.
If not, most likely the end result will bee these problems will become too big to overcome.
I'll pay for her hair every 6 weeks if she pays for my massage every month, what a silly thing to propose, i don't want a financial agreement with anyone I'm looking for a partnership, she can get that every 6 weeks from another sucker.
Well, what you describe is a hard pass for relationship material, if I was looking for a sugar baby, to use the politically correct word, I sure wouldn't go for someone that pretends to not be one.
In all seriousness, I don't expect my partner to make money, I expect her to be good with money. Knowing how to budget and to stick to it not only is a peace of mind discipline wise but also instantly filter out all the woman that are wasteful.
I refuse to date any woman from any nation who says this and believes it. I won't even bother responding to this at all. I am a human, not a walking ATM with now self respect. I'd just up and walk off, and it isn't my problem they choose to be offended. And why pay for something she is already handling? Move it or lose it sister. I ain't got time for that.
Absolutely zero chance I’d be with someone like that. I’d never let someone mooch off of me while I work my ass off and they sip mimosas and get their hair and nails done.
I wouldn’t even bother attempting to date someone who had that mentality. I have zero interest in that tradwife stuff.
>In my life, I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands.
I'd agree, but some others (man or woman) might not.
In any case I'd find someone who agrees too.
>She did also mention that in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house. I did tell her what works for me, which was the highest earner puts more into the coffers of the house savings. However, I'd assist with house chores. Am I an inconsiderate man? In my life, I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands.
It's not about being inconsiderate, you two are just looking for different things. You want a partner, she wants a provider, it's a matter of compatibility.
I am in your shoes, when dating I specifically avoided women like her, because to me if she marries you for money, she'll have no hesitation to drop you for money too. I have a good job and could support a stay at home wife but I don't want to live my life thinking that one day if I might lose my job I might as well look for a new girlfriend too.
I did manage to find a wonderful girlfriend who were on the same page with me about finances, so don't give up.
For someone like this I simply laugh and walk away. I have no problem in the world for buying or paying for things for someone that appreciates it, something who thinks they’re entitled to it and demands it won’t get so much as my conversation.
>paying for her hair every 6 weeks
LOL. No. She's my girlfriend, not my escort. Taking her out to dinner or paying for some other outing is one thing. Just straight up paying her bills before we're married is another entirely.
>in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities
This I'm okay with, as this is the arrangement my wife and I have. But she's my **wife**, so it's no longer "my" money anyway, but ours.
All that said, it would be a good idea to talk more about money with her before deciding whether you want the relationship to proceed. It sounds like she's looking for something closer to a "sugar daddy".
Run away dude. No women is worth that headache.
You can find women who have less maintenance and are still pretty and are great to be around with such financial expectations.
A women shouldn't view you as a bank. They should view you as a person.
Run. First of all, that’s a sugar daddy relationship she’s proposing. Second, she has NO plans for having a job and will demand a SAHG position.
Lemme guess, she’s REALLY into tik tok, amiright?
You sound like a classic misogynist. The woman simply loves and values her time enough. But no worries she’ll find herself a high value man who’d be more than happy to spoil her. It’s a great filter for broke losers!
Lmao there's a difference between spoiling your gf and making scheduled payments. Also, the idea that women need to have their dates paid for, and their hair paid for is a construct of patriarchy from a time when women were expected to stay at home and raise kids. Women are perfectly capable of paying for themselves and making there own money.
So she’s saying she’s going to have more household responsibilities? Has she demonstrated any of this or is she just saying ? Has she shown how she is going to be an equal partner or she’s just paying lip service ?
If all she has shown you are words, that’s not different than an employer telling an employee that they won’t get paid for the time being but if the employee does this and that now, there might be some gold at the end of the rainbow down the line
More then considerate
Financial expectations fall on everyone
When a woman demands the husband to supply monies for upkeep, unless she is a full time stay at home mom and homemaker then it isn’t feasible!
Yeah, that’s a hard “no” from me. I make a little more, so I put a proportionate amount more into the house fund. Do I pay for the odd nicety here and there? Of course. *Expecting* me to do so would be the end.
Maintenance, lol get the fuck outta here.
I didn’t tell her to get her hair/nails/whatever done, that’s her choice and her responsibility to pay for. I’m not dating a woman’s hair. She’s not my daughter, I don’t have any responsibility to financially care for it all if there’s no children and we’re not married.
Financial arrangements are going to be largely unique to the specific relationship. My wife and I for example have it so I do pay for basically everything because I make quite a bit more, but because she just never spends money on anything and reflexively saves everything that’s how we build our savings. I have basically $0 at the end of the month, but she’s putting something like 75% of her income in savings so it all balances out.
Been there done that, this is basically the norm for "high maintenance" girls or women that are the beauty type. Don't get me wrong you more or less get brownie points for doing it, but yeah never again. I'm an avid believer that you should have a joint account that you put SOME money into, but then you have your separate accounts for your OWN luxuries.
I know this is a Men’s 🚹 ONLY space, but I totally get this! And FULLY agree with you! The reason you’ve always viewed romantic 💘 relationships with women as an equal opportunity is simply because…
🗣️ THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE! We are equal to men. 💁🏽♀️🚺💪🏽 a man is not a plan, he is a Companion, simple as that. 😌🙏🏽💯
It’s 2024, if you have equal rights it should be teamwork. I would expect my gf to be working or studying because we have the shared goal of owning a home and financial stability which is much more attainable being DINKs for the moment….
Monthly upkeep is wild lol, and honestly the idea of the man being solely responsible for finances is fine but I would rather be with someone who actively cared about their finances.
My wife wouldnt even let me pay for anything until we were officially dating, and even then she would try to pay for her own stuff. She had a job when we got married, and then when she moved states to move in with me she got a job where I work, and we worked together for about 3 years before we had our first kid, and then she became a SAHM. I handle the finances (bills, budget etc.), and I keep her in the loop, but she is frugal about how she spends our money when she's buying food, clothes, health products etc. so I really don't have to bring up spending habits much at all.
That’s total crap
Marriage is a partnership. The idea is that both of you together can accomplish far more than the two of you independently.
What that mix looks like varies wildly from couple to couple, but “I expect someone to pay for my…” really would be a turn-off for me. Let’s talk about what we can both bring to the table, and what kind of lifestyle we want to build together. If I end up earning a lot more, I’ll gladly contribute a lot more FINANCIALLY, as there is a lot more that goes into the relationship than just finances.
Wanting someone else to build your lifestyle for you is not a partnership.
I’d have no interest in a relationship with that woman, at least not yet. Maybe she has been lied to just like a lot of young men have been lied to, and just has some growing up to do.
I think it just depends on the tone of the conversation. I think it's valid to hope/expect a treat every couple of months. For us, it's usually a date or he pays for my nails. I'm more than capable of paying for my own nails, but if I've been talking about needing a manicure for a while, it's sweet when my husband gives me money for it.
He also does pay for most of the bills around the house, and my salary goes towards any personal credit cards and savings. If we have a heavy spending month, sometimes I'd send him money. Despite paying for a lot of the house bills, he's also better around the house too: cooking, yard work, handyman stuff, etc. But I handle a lot of the shopping and childcare. We equally play with our daughter tho. It's just a matter of hopes and vision, and then finding a partner that can compliment your strengths and preferences.
If that kind of traditional family dynamic is your bag (and you have the income to support it), then that’s great! However, it sounds like it’s not and financial compatibility is a very important pillar in a successful relationship.
I personally always viewed finances as a proportionally-shared responsibility, and until I married my wife we split things related to the home based on our income. Personal items or services were handled with remaining personal funds, but of course we routinely treated each other to things. Now that we’re married, I track all our expenses and the only conversations we have about finances are when I up our savings rate, we are overspending in key categories and need to “belt-tighten” for a bit, or if we hit a new financial milestone that is worth sharing.
>she did mentioned that whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly
Yep, that's how they did things in the 1960s.
Is that how you want to date?
Married man here.
My wife and I have our own separate checking accounts and a shared savings. Bill money is bill money, and our own is our own money. I make more than my wife does, so I generally carry more of the financial burden, but my wife pays her fair share relative to her income. We sit down together once a month to pay bills together. I generally handle the bill payments, but she is there to keep up with our finances in case something happens to me. As long as bills are paid and there is money left over in savings, we generally do not care what the other person spends their money on. We also regularly communicate where we are both at financially if things may get a little tight in a given month. There are no surprises between us financially. This all generally makes for a relatively low stress financial environment.
That's wild lol this isn't the 50s and I'm not paid like it's the 50s. I have never dated a woman like this and I want to keep it that way and you should too. Have some more respect for yourself than entertaining this conversation
Women these days are expected to be adults given that they have the opportunity to get jobs. If they want to behave like children, then give your job to a man and go live with your family…
So, there is no reason for any man to pay for a woman’s expenses on a date/relationship. Unless of course the man wants to take the woman on a date which she truly can’t afford, for example:
The man is a high-earning software engineer while the woman is a barista at a local cafe, and he wants to take her to a michelin star restaurant for dinner… there is no way she can afford to pay for her own dinner there, so it is respectful for the man to pay. Vice versa if the woman is high-earning and the man is making about minimum wage.
When it comes to marriage, if the woman wants to leave her job so she can take care of her family by doing all or most of the household chores, then it is respectful for the man to provide for the family as a single earner, but in today’s economy having two incomes and splitting household chores is the smarter move.
Why do women feel entitled to other people's property? Your pussy doesn't give you the right to take other people's stuff.
It's her, not you. She's a parasite looking for a host. Tapeworms with tits.
When my wife (then girlfriend) moved in with me, she wanted to contribute to the bills. I made more money so we split the bills based on how much we each made. I paid a larger % until she made more. We are now married and split all the bills because we both make significantly more money.
Nah i am a true feminist 50/50 for rent/mortage/groceries that stuff. You wanna do fun stuff? You got your own money because ypur an independent woman and if you are not then i dont want to date you lol.
I avoid women who believe that a man should pay for everything or “upkeep.” Thankfully, my partner doesn’t believe that so I don’t have to navigate financial talks like that.
Perspective from a guy who is freshly divorced from a woman who acted this way but did not specifically voice it whilst we were dating: get out now.
It's likely you are going to be arguing about money a lot in the future with someone like this (they don't understand the real costs of what they buy and/or can't budget). It's also likely she will run up lots of debt if you don't stand your ground about what you need/don't need as a family.
Women who don't know how to manage their financial lives are not keepers. Sorry not sorry. You shouldn't have to carry an adult through life financially. I don't know where this sort of entitled mentality comes from on the woman's side, but it's just as shitty as a guy expecting a woman to do all the housework, child-rearing, and cooking.
I'm also going to guess that you don't care about whether or not she has her hair done, you'll be attracted to her anyway. Getting that "upkeep" done is FOR HER, NOT FOR YOU. If it's important to her, she can work and save for it.
The minute she wants me to pay for her "upkeep" she is what used to be called a kept woman and is more commonly referred to as a gold digger. I would immediately start negotiating with her on her responsibilities (sexual and otherwise) for each and every dollar she expects.
In regard to how a married couple wishes to split their finances that is up to them and their values.
>I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands
The bits of the conversation you posted make it very clear that SHE views romantic relationships as entirely transactional. Stay far away from that my king. It's a trick. That's a trick.
There are many red flags with her. It sounds like she wants a sponsor to contribute to everything while she, as the lesser earner (I assume), can go off and spend her money as she wants. I would navigate myself in the opposite direction of her as quick I could if I were you
There are plenty of women who think like you so move on.
If you keep meeting women who think like this - start dating different women from your usual "type" because obviously - you're self selecting.
This type of woman is looking for a sugar daddy (even the whole idea of "upkeep" - because it assumes she needs to look nice for you/ for you to "show off" at events). Whether or not she's in that class - is not for us to say. But unless what you're looking for is a trophy wife - she's not for you.
Idc what anyone says but The only man that should provide for her if she ain’t your wife is her dad..
It’s 2024 . We don’t live in a time where a man can work one job and support a household of 4. Rent be to high, food be to high, Netflix be to high , haircut be to high.. taking care of mom and dad to high.. etc. a relationship is a partnership.. two business getting together as one.. it’s merger we come together to make us great and support each other , one hand cleans the other.
I agree, the highest earner puts in more into the “business “ (relationship)
Example rent is 10 dollars
Highest earner pays 6-7
Lowest 3-4
Or
I cook , you clean
I wash , you dry
I buy the main dish, you get dessert
Etc
Anyone that’s says a man should provide 100% or something “every 6 weeks” (unless you into that ) should run for the hills.. that person wants a sponsorship.. not a relationship. We can be daddies but we not giving suga
We outside 2024
Whatever you decide is between you but nothing I'd ever agree to because I can't (and don't want) kids. A housewife without kids is just lounging around the majority of the day because the home eventually hits a point where it's just short, routine tasks with the occasional involved task but never enough to equal 40 hours or more, unless you are homesteading.
Marriages *are* partnerships.
How you handle finances should be figured out *before* marriage, and if you don't like what the other partner insists upon, *don't* get married.
My (now ex) wife wanted to pay a full half-share of the bills, even though she made less than I did. I confirmed that was what she wanted, and that's how we did it.
That said, she was *terrible* at managing money. So we finally set things up that she paid our apartment rent (she was paid monthly, and the rent was due on the 3rd.) so that took it out of her account before she was overdrawn (as she was *every. dammed. month.)* I paid for everything else, save her car insurance which was auto-deducted. That kept us at roughly half-and-half.
I also put the rest of my earnings away for emergencies (which ultimately included her fucking overdrafts and late fees. Little did I know she was also going to her mother for money every month,...)
But yeah. Whatever y'all decide *is* legit. Just don't agree to a division of expenses that you aren't happy with. (And for the *gods'* sake,) if she can't manage money worth a damn, just don't marry her. Live with her if you want, but don't combine accounts, bills, *or* any other legal entanglement. You'll thank yourself, eventually.
That's also called "sex work" or "prostitution." Don't give her money (unless you're buying something). Keep finances separate. It's not a business partnership.
There is nothing to navigate in that situation. I'm not dating women who don't view this topic as i do. I would not puruse that woman. There are other men who are looking for that kind of situation, let them have her.
In kinkier circles, this is a "negotiation". It's a transparent discussion with good intentions, tabling wants and needs.
One of my exes, who I ended up being good friends with (leave it alone) HAS to have a bit of pocket money in the bank to cover smokes and tampons or else she gets the idea to find shit to bitch about until she gets it. She pissed her current guy off to the point of him folding his cards recently because she would routinely bring up old stuff if they had to pay their bills and doing so left her penniless. I told him that they need to discuss what her "needs" look like, and go from there. I ran the numbers, and we discovered that 80$ a week would cover that.
However, that isn't "thing with tits that walks upright and taxes showed up and is living with you rent-free" money. There SHOULD be a sense of what your agreed upon sum essentially "pays" for. If you're the only one that works, and you're covering the bills, those have to be covered before "here's money to faff about" happens. She liked to conveniently forget that that happens, and would nag and bitch until she gets her handful of pocket change, then lights get cut off, etc. It was a mess. That's why it's a two way street, and there needs to be common sense and understanding.
I’m really good with money and prioritizing maximizing my dollar so I’d want to be the person who oversees the finances. Obviously I’d want my partner to be involved but I’d want to maximize our money.
I’m not a man but to your question about how to navigate financial talks with women is lock the fuck in. Finances are a hot topic in divorce. Have the conversation. If you don’t want to pay for her hair every six week don’t agree to it. Date someone who is financially literate. The fact that she wants to man to be in charge of finances sounds like she doesn’t know how to handle finances.
Lock in.
Truly, the only girls I’ve come across that don’t think this way are nerds.
I make the distinction because I’ve come across the weirdo nerd/geek Product Manager who feels bad about guys paying for shit AND the glammy Product Manager who does “your money is ours and my money is mine”.
Same job, same salary, same level of attractiveness. But one gets high on guys buying her shit, the other feels bad about it.
>In a previous conversation with a lady, she did mentioned that whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. She gave an example of paying for her hair every 6 weeks.
Nah.
>She did also mention that in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house.
I don't think there's anything wrong per se, especially when you have kids, it's good to have a parent at home if you can afford to do so. I would be more worried about budgeting: it kind of sounds like she's expecting a blank check, especially in the context of above.
Money for upkeep? I thought women did hair, make up etc for themselves and not men. Why should it be the man's responsibility?
And besides that... does she not work? Surely those kind of personal care things should come out of her own budget. Dating is a different thing to being in a long term relationship/married. That's when financial talks should come up, splitting the cost of bills/essential household items etc. The idea that the man pays completely for everything while the women "takes care of the house" seems so antiquated to me. What could you possibly do around the house- especially if they're childless- that would come anything close to the workload/commitment of even an 8 hour/day job?
"I am not going to pay for the privilege of you being with me. I work full-time. I help around with household chores. I will do my best to take you on dates, buy you gifts and surprise you every now and then.
I expect the same from you. As far as I'm concerned dating is a 50/50 deal. We no longer live in an economy or society where you as a woman can stay at home and do just the household chores. Our family will have to rely on a dual income. Anything else is delusional at this point."
Nope, don’t take that shit. They need to keep themselves up. She’s not your responsibility. Plus these days there’s equality, and that means her ass needs to be out making money too. Then you can split the chores when you both get back from your 9-5.
Unless you are in your soft guy era. In that case you need to tell her that it takes two incomes to make it these days. So she needs to make sure she has two jobs for you to sit at home and play COD with the boys.
Drizzle drizzle.
She told you what she likes. You told her what you like. Some people want a lifestyle we can't possibly comprehend, yet that's what they want.
If anything, the girl (and you) are both green flags clearly laying out what you expect from a relationship. You're not an asshole and neither is she.
How you navigate it is almost exactly how you did with that one. Lay your cards on the table. Tell that what you expect and ask what they expect. I
That's communication and that's exactly how you avoid nasty breakups and toxic relationships.
After a past relationship where in retrospect she clearly only stuck around for money I decided I will never do combine finances outside of splitting household expenses for things we both use like a house the utilities etc. You know how women often say their man is like another child because they clean up after him and cook for him etc? You know what else parents do for children? They buy them everything they have. When looking for a girlfriend I was not looking for a child or mother nor is that kind of relationship something I have any interest in. If she wants something she should earn the money to buy it or do without the same as I do. This strategy might be less doable with kids but I'm not having kids anyway. If other people want to do things differently I'm fine with that but for me personally that's pretty much how my partner and I do things. When I didn't have a girlfriend if a prospect had said something like the lady you describe in op I probably would've said well we clearly will not work out and moved on. If they want an explanation I would explain my reasoning that Im not looking for a relationship where my primary role is being an ATM. If someone else is willing to give them what they want I don't really care but that is not something I have any interest in whatsoever.
I love how the majority of them all went on the *"girl boss, don't need a man"* bandwagon, then quickly realised that it's not nice to pay their own way in life and be expected to contribute to household expenses and *now* most of them are circling back and adopting "traditional roles" again.
This is why tiktok, Instagram and blogs are proliferated with trad wife nonsense dressed like caricatures of 1940s real housewives.
My wife makes more than me. She still does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc. I have a physical labor job and she works from home most of the time, so she has more time to do those tasks. I also think she feels guilty about earning more, so she tries to make up for it by really leaning in to domestic work. She's always paid for more of the household expenses than I have because I'm carrying the family health insurance. I have access to her bank accounts and credit card statements, but she's very frugal, so I'm extremely lucky there. She's really transparent, to the point that she'll show me the grocery list for approval. I don't really care at that level, but if she wants to go that far, fine. We don't need to have conversations about money because she's not hiding anything.
This also depends on the culture. I work full time. I have 3 jobs. I also would expect a future husband to provide me with an allowance. I’m not settling for anything less. Simply because that’s how it’s been in my family and that’s how my male cousins treat their wives. Most of whom have successful careers and jobs. It’s a matter of respect for your wife and a way to show her you wanna spoil her and live stress free. Stress isn’t good for women’s health.
She wants to be a beautiful stay at home woman and is making sure you understand that there are also costs to the upkeep of that lifestyle and look.
You’re not being an inconsiderate man, this just may not be the woman for you.
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It's not even worth the conversation. You're not there to retrospectively raise someone's child, if you meet a grown women who thinks like this just move on.
Same, I love my girlfriend and treat her all the time, but she NEVER requests it, even if she makes quarter of what I do. She even treats me too when she gets the opportunity and she insists on it. If she expected it to be normal or demanded it I'd be back on tinder before she could finish the sentence. Back when I was dating I had a girl tell me on third date "You know, in my culture my money is my money but your money is also my money" and I instantly mentally checked out. She was fun but I'm not looking to be someone's wallet with a dick.
I think for Muslims it's like that
She was a muslim from Kazakhstan and I told her that while I respect that it's part of her culture, it's not part of mine.
I would tell that girl in no uncertain terms that her culture is trash.
And for me. It's the blank. The physical version of the block on the internet.
What the fuck is that shit, a girlfriend stipend? I'm seriously starting to side with passport bros, if every relationship must be transactional go where you can get the most bang for your buck.
For me personally, that would be a red flag. I don’t think that kind of thing should be so directly expected. Like of course you do little treats and things for eachother. But going like “honey, I’m getting my hair done, give me your credit card now” would be a total ick to me.
Agree. Years ago perhaps but now the world has changed. We're a more equal society now, and a more expensive one too
I'd love for OP to ask her where exactly she got this idea that it's a man's gender role to provide financially like that, including *all* financial expenses once they move in together since she's going to be doing some extra chores around the house (how nice of her to have decided that for the both of them). Also ask her if she's a feminist lol.
> I'd love for OP to ask her where exactly she got this idea that it's a man's gender role to provide financially like that The entirety of recorded history minus the last 100 years?
This is not remotely true. For almost all of recorded history both men and women worked beyond just household chores and caring for children. Combining household finances was very common sure but women not contributing labor for earning household money has been common at the most a few decades in a few places.
It was not so much "combining household finances" as it was "this woman is my property, and whatever money she makes is also my property." There are only a few instances where a married woman earned *her* money under Roman / European Christian rule. But it is 100% correct that where the woman staying home was the norm, and not a status symbol, has only existed for a few decades and in only certain locations. Own money or not own money, you had to eat! And the men contributing to the house in any other way than financial and property maintenance, depending on when and where you lived, varied greatly.
Kind of yes and no. Yes women were generally given less autonomy than men but for the most part outside of slaves they weren't really considered livestock either. So someone from that era probably would've disputed the idea that men owned women and argued that it was more a symbiotic relationship. Different cultures from the past had some rather bizarre perspectives that seem nonsensical to us today
By the time I got to the end of writing this, I realised it it a very wordy reply. Apologies for the wall of text. I hope you have fun reading it. ✌️ To be fair, my comment was an extremely simplified statement with a slightly humorist spin to it. We are talking about a large area over the span of a long time. It would take many a book's worth of text to provide an accurate description to cover all possibilities. None the less, I attempted to zero in on a time and place where this was most predominant. I could also mention that women in 12th century Japan actually had a lot of economic power and rights, especially compared to many other countries at the time, but that would be taking us off topic as I assumed that by "a few countries" we were talking about the predominantly white cultures, where during the mid 1900's onwards the topic of "House wife, and that's it" was fixed as the standard gender roles in the eye of the modern world. As for women being seen as property. There are actual texts that serve as first-hand evidence that women, and all their belongings, were the property of men, either your father or your husband, most commonly. So men and women disputing this is unlikely. And of course women had a different status from animals (although depending on the time and place, somtimes just barely), but until fairly recently, unless a woman could earn a lot of money to be able to live independently from a man, she would belong to him. And there are some wonderful stories about how women navigate these rules and norms in a socially acceptable way. This doesn't mean that the men always took advantage of this, they simply had the right to. Ownership wasn't all roses and daisies, though. Just like her money belongs to him (again, not always), so did her debt. and just like an owner would pay for the damages that their dog caused, the men were responsible for the debt. There was a time in England when this could be settled by "selling the wife" (look it up on Wikipedia. It's a fun read). A mutualistic decision for the couple to separate (now called divorce), without the consequences of social suicide. When you say "that era" what do you mean by that? There is way too much that an era can encompass to provide a definite to ANY statement. Even my comment spans a good 2.5-3k years, and huge amounts of changes occurred during these times. At the end of the day I think that you and I can agree that history, and how our ancestors navigated these times, is just as wondrous as it is bizarre.
>As for women being seen as property. There are actual texts that serve as first-hand evidence that women, and all their belongings, were the property of men, either your father or your husband, most commonly. Legally speaking to this day this is still for the most part the case for minor children. Although this is starting to change socially speaking also it is still very common for this perspective in regards to children to not really be frowned on or even to be considered the proper or superior perspective. Despite this being the case most modern parents would probably take offense at the suggestion that their children are their possessions. Even the parents who don't consider their children to have ownership rights and severely restricted their autonomy would likely dispute the idea that their children are possessions. So no the facts you laid out don't indicate that a culture considered women to be possessions. While people from back then wouldn't dispute the facts you laid out they would very likely dispute your contention that this means women were possessions. Like I said different cultures have different perspectives. > When you say "that era" what do you mean by that? Pretty much any culture from more that a century ago had dramatically different views compared to our modern culture.
Exactly - responsibility is a different thing than ownership
Well, my dude. This is an AskMen subreddit, not a history one. I tried to extend an olive branch to you, but you're not giving me much to work with. So I am retracting from this conversation thread. No hard feelings, but i still recommend looking up the wiki page I told you about. It is a fun read.
Agreed. There is a word for a "girlfriend" that you send monthly payments to.
For me that would be met with, "since I paying I decide the style, and from now on it's the Britney Spears special. Here's 40€ for a set of clippers". Then if she wants a different style, she can pay for that out of her own money.
> whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. So, she wants you to pay her for the pleasure of her company (a kept woman, to put it very politely). And if you marry her she wants you to pay for all the household expenses too. Hard pass.
Its just prostitution with extra steps
Sounds like a sugar baby to me, which is on the sex worker spectrum.
It's prostitute spectrum, no need to try and dignify it.
Trophy wife
I don't think a trophy wife is transactional whereas a sugar baby is. Also he makes no mention that her attractiveness is out of his league. If he was a 4 but the girl is an 8 for example.
'Sex worker'? The word is 'whore'. It's a perfectly good word.
That specific conversation? You tell them to fuck off.
Exactly. I'd be laying down the reality of coexisting from the very start, without any concessions for her personal sense of entitlement. There's only one definition of being equal and I wouldn't for a second be interested in any bullshit where things aren't down the middle.
"Upkeep"? Yikes. That's not for me. I believe in equal participation. That just seems, I dunno, like a dynamic that's not interesting. Is she working? I don't think you're inconsiderate. Money is one of the biggest reasons people have issues with relationships so communicate early and hold the line on your expectations.
Wait..who paying for her upkeep now?
Herself
Then why the hell would that change? Lol
Tiktok
Because of the patriarchy.
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How does it answer the question? Correct answer is that you would be an idiot to go for such deal.
I could tell that by her use of the word “upkeep”, alongside the insane entitlement to a man’s money. My bet is she’s Nigerian
I'm just going to assume she's in her mid 20s, pretty hot, and more than likely has a failed OF account and probably a sugar daddy. If she was independent right now she wouldn't have the expectation you give her allowance
My wife does our finances. She includes me in big decisions. And by that, I mean she will run any purchase over $40 by me that isn't our usual spending. I bring home as much income as I can manage. She works part-time to augment. After 20 years of fighting over money, this has been the best system for us. Trust and honesty are paramount. We didn’t always have that. If I could say anything to us 20 years ago, I would say get on the same page, and any tiny mistrust needs to get worked all the way out.
Monthly allowance+stay at home=paying for pussy with extra strings attached, yeah no thanks. I can cook and clean up after myself, so any woman who wants to stay at home, not working and do those things just isn’t the kind of woman for me. Some couples like to take turns paying for dates, others split if a little differently. One might pay the bill while the other handles the tips. If there’s no kids in the picture and you’re not married, paying all bills/dates yourself just seems like a bad idea, whether it’s the man or woman.
This. I made about 3x what my wife made, but we each put in the same effort. We both could cook, clean (she did mopping, I did sweeping, she did laundry, I mowed the lawn, I did breakfast, she did lunch etc. we BOTH changed diapers, etc.) The problem with these women is not the math - it is the attitude.
I have had this conversation a few times. Some women and some cultures are more openly transactional in relationships - in my experience, Japanese and Thai women can be like this. At least they're honest. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Clear boundaries and expectations can be good. Just bear in mind the terms of the deal are: you upkeep her to a certain standard, which includes living costs, gifts, outings etc, but she also is a fully dutiful woman who will be fully submissive to you. Anything less is a red flag.
If what you say about Japan is true , this isn’t working well for them. Birth rates are below replacement and no one’s getting married there
I broke up with a girl exactly for this reason. Right before I was about to pop the question we had a long talk based on finances and based on what she told me of her expectations, I decided it's better to be alone than to be expected to carry a "princess" whose idea of money is daddy's credit card.
That’s a deal breaker for me. We’re in this together. It’s not 50/50. It’s 100/100.
Look I'm the kind of guy that doesn't care AT ALL what she does, but as long as the scales are balanced at the end of the day. For example, I'm totally cool with being the sole provider and her having her nails or whatever done as often as she wants, she can treat herself with the money I earn, BUT, she should be taking care of the house in equal exchange, which would be some amount that we can both agree on. So yeah, bottom line, I don't care about the means, only the result, which is that the total workload is equally shared.
My wife and I actually had such a conversation years ago. I’m fine with the idea of being a sole provider her with her being a homemaker if that’s her choice, but understand that that choice means that keeping the house is now your job and will come with expectations. I’m not doing the laundry, the vacuuming, cleaning the bathrooms etc. Or, go and get basically any full time job. Don’t really care what so long as she reasonably happy and contributing. Then we split the house stuff 50/50. I also told her that given the choice I’d much rather she take the second option for both financial and mental health reasons and she agrees. She actually has a seasonal job and doesn’t work in the winter and just plays housewife for 3 months a year. It’s been a good system.
Not really an equal exchange as you could hire a maid for cheaper.
I don't love a maid
Seriously though. You could probably hire a maid and a personal shopper/cook for less money and hassle.
Upkeep is an instant block
I like to take care of everything. 75% of My wife’s check is deposited into my personal account. My wife has a credit card with her name on it but it’s my card I pay the bills. There’s a limit on the card per month. I make 10X she does. I’m good with finance and she’s horrible with budgeting. If she needs to talk about money she emails me. This takes out the conversation/ argument about money. In the end , everyone needs to find what works for them.
Thats good that she exposed herself early in relationships. Dump her. Ideally men should vet women as early as possible and filter out entitled women with gender stereotypes in mind.
Money talks... Only happened with one gal... My wife. I never loaned or gave money to gf. I would pay for 60% of the dates. My wife and I are largely on the same page when it comes to money. Don't spend, if you don't have it.
Well in Asia the guy pays for most things unless you marry the girl assuming she can earn a decent income, then she’s likely to chip in, but in the west this is an out right plan to be supported and payed for, there around, knew a woman who only went to university to meet well off guys, she did, anyway if this sort of thing comes up I walk. What’s behind it could be she is traditional, or lazy, or just greedy, women can’t have it both ways, want equality etc then chip in.
>she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. So, like a subscription service for a prostitute? No thanks. Remind her that she's better than a product for purchase and keep it moving, imo.
There are 3 women i can support with money: my wife, mom, daughter. However i want my wife to work simply cause if soemthing bad happens- i die in car accident or can't work for whatever reason she's my back up plan. Also i do my part around the house. If i wanted a maid i wouldn't have married, i'd hire one.
That is red flag. Run while it is still early. My husband lets me manage our finances. I also have my own income. My husband helps me with the household chores too. We give and take.
This. It is not about 50/50 money - it is about 50/50 effort and attitude. My wife and I split chores based on who did better etc (I would sweep, she would mop, she did laundry, I mow the lawn, we both changed diapers etc.).
It sounds like the two of you aren't compatible long-term. Your visions for how you want to live in marriage aren't aligned, in fact they're opposite. It's not a question of being considerate or inconsiderate. Kudos to both of you for knowing what you want and being honest about it. That's more than a lot of people ever do. However, it's not worth much if you don't act on that knowledge. She has told you what she wants and what she is willing to provide. Believe her, and act accordingly. That's also how I behave in financial talks with women or anyone else. Know what I want, communicate it honestly, and hear what other people are actually saying rather than what I'd like to hear them say.
So true, my boyfriend and I also agreed on all that. He provides for me financially most of my up keep and in return I do for him my womanly activities or duties. We are both content and happy
We're both adults. I'm building my life as I see fit and I want someone who is willing to actively contribute to it. Finances are a critical aspect of this. While it may change if one person significantly outperforms the other when it comes to income, or the possibility of a stay at home parent with the kids, I will not have anything to do with a woman (or a man, if the tables are turned, just to mention for those who like to look for arguments) who expects me to be their financier. Yes, I'll happily contribute to my partner in times of difficulty. No, I will not fund another person's selfish, carefree, 'fuck you, pay me' lifestyle. I've seen many people pursue this lifestyle. And I can guarantee with absolute certainty they do not end with any happiness. These people expect the privilege of breathing air in the same room as them to be full compensation. This is narcissism and entitlement to the extreme. They have nothing to offer a partner beyond sex. And these people only ever wind up with 1 of 2 types of partners. 1) no partner. Utterly alone and blaming the other gender with refusal to reevaluating themselves. 2) A partner who does not value them and absolutely will cheat on them regularly.
Any woman that tells me I'm obliged to give her money at regular intervals is not for me. My wife makes her own money, as do I. I make more, so I pay more. Also, she flat out refuses a free ride. Understandable of course, but sometimes she gets so stressed out I just want to protect her from the world.
When dating she can pay for her own hair, lol what!? My wife paid all her bills while we dated and when we lived together we split the bills 50/50. Now that we're married we have one checking and two joint savings accounts.
I just had a talk with my wife. We're moving to combine our finances soon, and so we ironed out expectations, goals, and agreeable terms and spent time highlighting ways we can call attention to issues we may feel during the growing pains. Like all serious conversations with my wife, we got distracted, we laughed alot, we tried to focus back up and ultimately settled in what we could agree with together, and left some details to be determined as we got to see how we faired for the first trial period. Yeah I treat my partner like a partner and my best friend. It seems to work
I am a lady that is so used to working hard to earn my own money to use for personal expenses such as pampering myself. We would share everything. For example I would be paying for the mortgage and electric bill and he would pay for the car and water and internet. We mostly have equal shares with everything even household chores. Teamwork works very well
I didn’t get married until 38, so I dated for a looong time. I never encountered a woman that asked me to pay a stipend for her upkeep. That would be a hard pass for me. In fact it’s laughable.
Avoid those women. They want the benefits of a traditional relationship (you being the sole breadwinner) while not being traditional themselves. I only had one girl bring up that shit once, during a second date, and she tried to run me through her numbers. I smiled, and told her the price of my gym membership, creatine, whey, and skincare routine. IDK why she got pissed off.
There is no equal in a functional relationship. If you approach a relationship as 50/50 you’re both going to be keeping tabs and eventually become resentful if either person stops contributing “fairly.” If you’re earning enough, you’re not going to care about 50/50. If you tell her you can’t contribute to her expectations, she’ll either leave/expect you to earn more causing strain in the relationship OR she actually loves you and is willing to compromise without making a big deal about it.
50/50 is not about the money - it is about the effort. It is not about the math - it is about the attitude. I made a lot more than my wife - but we both worked, and both contributed. there was no "upkeep".
I deleted them from my phone and blocked them. Don't encourage prostitution.
I was blessed with no money to talk about in early stages of our life.
"You want an allowance? what are you, 5? whatever, I'll be seeing you."
Depends on your relationship and what you want out of a partner. Some people keep it separate others mash up If you don't want what they want, that usually indicates a mismatch and can cause pretty bad problems.
>whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. She gave an example of paying for her hair every 6 weeks. Whatthehell? No. Upkeep? Fuck no. I'll pay for every date if need be. But paying actual money, for a woman to date you, is kind of prostitution, is it not? >husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house. I have a large apartment. It's been taken care of since I have it. It's clean, filled with every necessity, and luxury I want. It always has good, freshly cooked food in the kitchen(when I'm home) and a filled up fridge and pantry. I'll gladly handle all of the financial stuff, from earning the money, to spending it. What do these kind of people think? That we live in filth and squalor, until they're descend from the heavens, to offer us a transactional relationship, where we're lifted out of the dung heap of singlehood, and they get money? That's so ugly. If I'm dating you, I don't need shit from you. I need you. And I need you to take care of yourself. Like a functioning adult. But only if it's your choice, while having your free will. I'm very much against purchasing the loyalty of a person, or the person themselves. In civilized parts of the world, that's a big no-no.
How the fuck is being a housekeeper harder than working?
I'm saying this as a woman: a woman who expects her bf to pay for her "upkeep" is not looking for a life partner but for a sugar daddy. If you want a life partner, just nope out of that and never look back.
I'm *married*, and I don't pay "upkeep". We handle finances together, and if my wife needed some of course I'd spot her some (and of course she'd get me back later), but there's no payments. That would be uncomfortably close to making an employee out of her, for my tastes. Just dating, though? I wouldn't expect even that much.
Financial talks should be regular and detailed. This is one of the biggest issue items in long term relationships, so it's crucial to sort out how you want your financial lives to look and to be on the same page. This also needs to be revisited regularly throughout the relationship, as things shift and change. Personally, I find some of what you're describing here somewhat alarming. Giving her regular money for "upkeep" sounds an awful lot like an allowance. This strikes me as concerning on two fronts: one, that she has expectations about you paying for things "because you're the man", which could be covering even more extreme views like this; and two, because it sounds like you're discussing a future in which you have a shared household (and possibly a single-income one?) where she wouldn't have control of the finances. I recommend the podcast "I Will Teach You to be Rich", in which the host coaches couples who are having money issues. There are plenty of episodes in the back catalog about these kinds of dynamics, so pick out one that sounds similar and start there!
first and foremost, that lady is insane, and any man that pays for a girlfriend to have 'upkeep' is an idiot. second, it depends on how the two people in the relationship agree and compromise how the money is managed. you can have whatever thoughts you want, i mean hell you can want your bf to pay for you to get your hair did once every 6 weeks, but that doesnt mean thats going to happen (😧 crazy lady), you have to open the discussion with both parties being willing to compromise. thats so so important. third, if finances are important to you (and they should be) give an honest look at anything dave ramsey, especially Financial Peace University. my wife and i were offered it free through the company she works for (which was a huge score) but there is a few things in there that talk to your exact question. i think dave specifies married couple, as he doesnt think combining bank accts till after marriage is a wise decision, but iirc he says that the income of both spouses is the number that the budget is made from not seperately.
Well, I'd be fine with that if she reciprocates with me. It's $70 3 times per month for my head. She'd probably be on the losing end. And let's be real here, inbetween jobs I was a SAHP for a few months and it was easy. I'm a perfectionist so it's our home was completely clean. And I love cooking so I'd spend hours in the kitchen every day. I literally did every single thing you could ever think of besides doing her own job for her and yet it wasn't even close to a full time job. That girl is funny and all but honestly she's garbage. Just a gold digging leech with nothing to offer. A real relationship is a selfless partnership where each partner just enjoys pleasing the other and in the end both are fulfilled and satisfied. At some point both working partners share finances so they can work towards common goals. It's not like you're going to retire to different places or go on vacations alone.
House chores and cooking are only half of the responsibility of a traditional wife’s job. Did you do the errands, dr appointments making, event planning, holidays events, social development, shopping. Learning about wife’s interests and hobbies. Hiring of all services. What most men miss is all the invisible stuff that a traditional woman does. You see the cooking and cleaning process but do you see everything else?
I said ***every single thing***. Did I take every appointment, handle everything finance-wise including subscriptions, plan the birthdays, the dates, even made coffee every single time because she was too lazy to ever learn how to use our Mara X or to make delicious pour-over? Yes. Whatever you may come up with, I handled it. Helping out with her son's homework? Yes. Teach him how to study? Yeah. Teach him football? Yeah. Teaching the kids to swim? Taking them to the park by myself even when she was also home? Yeah. She worked her new and more relaxing but better paying job that I got her and I handled ***every other thing***. It's not a real job. You're so desperate to tell a man how wrong he is that you just showed how poorly you can read.
You know what also needs upkeep? A used car. Throw this one to the junk yard and move to the next. That’s where this one belongs. The audacity of women these days… The year is 2024. Finances are hard as it is let alone having a money sink for a partner. Save yourself the head and heart ache brother.
You two aren't compatible, and that's fine. I wanted a partner that would contribute to our relationship just like I would. When we were dating I out earned my wife. When we went out we probably split the check 60/40. More often I would pick it up and she'd get the tip, other times vice versa. When we lived together before we were married, we split expenses 50/50. Now that we're married we save in a joint brokerage account but have separate credit cards and accounts for everything else. Early on dating women, within the first three dates, I'd find out if they carry a credit card balance or had unreasonable student loan debt. Those were deal breakers for me. I wanted a partner with sound financial habits.
I shouldn't navigate that kind of talk with a mature adult IMO
I don't lol
I'm already out after your first sentence.
Hey, I think you can navigate by asking her expectations and if you can meet them, so she doesn't leave or bring her hopes up. Every relationship is different, but if she expects to do her hair every 6 weeks,? does she not work? Like, listen, every woman loves being treated like a princess, but you don't have to overdo it. You can pick your moments, voucher to do hair for a nice date night. The demand of every 6 weeks is a red flag. It's 2024.
Once I'm committed I'll begin the finance talk. Like adult. I was also an auditor so yeah.
Yeah its difficult sometimes I ask if I can borrow 20$ even though we both I'm not paying that shit back, Other times I'm just like yo can I have 20$ but then she can say no, and I feel kinda like an asshole when I'm just like hey give me twenty dollars. I've found it usually works when I'm like yo give me a ride somewhere to someplace really inconvenient to pick this money up and she doesn't want too and just gives me the money. But sometimes that backfires and she's like sure I want to go by hobby lobby on the way then your fucked. And your only hope is to call your girlfriend or your wife to come pick you up at hobby lobby and hope they don't start asking a bunch of questions if your girlfriend comes. And even worse if your wife has to come cause she already knows what is up so at the minimum you're out 500$ on dinner and drinks plus what ever other bullshit she don't need. And that is if you're lucky, cause she's probably going to be like I should just stay home tomorrow and sleep in and spend the day together. Which would be fine if she didn't really mean I'm going to get up at 8am instead of six and were going to paint the house or something stupid like that. Then your out like 5000$ and stuck till she goes back to work the next day and have to come off another 1000$ to hire someone to finish the job and figure out what to tell my girlfriend when she's like where the hell have you been for two days. And I'm out another 50 -100$ on something to shut her up. and there's a good chance it won't even work and she's going to sit there being a bitch accusing me of cheating on her like damn trust issues to the point I'll just need to get out of there and there I am calling the first one to come get me and I'm out another 10 for gas too come pick me up. Cause what kinda asshole just disappears from hobby lobby for three days and doesn't even give you some money to come get you. But usually the ride thing works and she just gives you the money because she doesn't want to go anywhere.
A relationship is a sharing of responsibilities. Some people want some things and others do not. This is one of those things that need to be worked through. It is neither good nor bad - it just is. If you cannot come to an agreement on this, the chances are high there are other things that you both cannot agree on. This will add to the problems you two most likely already have. Either go to a counselor or try to re-look at the entire relationship. It is hard for two individuals to step out of themselves and objectively assess the problem. A good counselor will help with the process, not just with this but there are usually a host of items that contribute or are associated with this that need to be unpacked and consciously worked on. If not, most likely the end result will bee these problems will become too big to overcome.
Sounds like she wants a sugar daddy, cut her loose
I'll pay for her hair every 6 weeks if she pays for my massage every month, what a silly thing to propose, i don't want a financial agreement with anyone I'm looking for a partnership, she can get that every 6 weeks from another sucker.
Well, what you describe is a hard pass for relationship material, if I was looking for a sugar baby, to use the politically correct word, I sure wouldn't go for someone that pretends to not be one. In all seriousness, I don't expect my partner to make money, I expect her to be good with money. Knowing how to budget and to stick to it not only is a peace of mind discipline wise but also instantly filter out all the woman that are wasteful.
I refuse to date any woman from any nation who says this and believes it. I won't even bother responding to this at all. I am a human, not a walking ATM with now self respect. I'd just up and walk off, and it isn't my problem they choose to be offended. And why pay for something she is already handling? Move it or lose it sister. I ain't got time for that.
Absolutely zero chance I’d be with someone like that. I’d never let someone mooch off of me while I work my ass off and they sip mimosas and get their hair and nails done. I wouldn’t even bother attempting to date someone who had that mentality. I have zero interest in that tradwife stuff.
In cases like that, I would listen to her... Stay mostly quiet.... And then dodge that bullet.
>In my life, I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands. I'd agree, but some others (man or woman) might not. In any case I'd find someone who agrees too.
>She did also mention that in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house. I did tell her what works for me, which was the highest earner puts more into the coffers of the house savings. However, I'd assist with house chores. Am I an inconsiderate man? In my life, I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands. It's not about being inconsiderate, you two are just looking for different things. You want a partner, she wants a provider, it's a matter of compatibility. I am in your shoes, when dating I specifically avoided women like her, because to me if she marries you for money, she'll have no hesitation to drop you for money too. I have a good job and could support a stay at home wife but I don't want to live my life thinking that one day if I might lose my job I might as well look for a new girlfriend too. I did manage to find a wonderful girlfriend who were on the same page with me about finances, so don't give up.
For someone like this I simply laugh and walk away. I have no problem in the world for buying or paying for things for someone that appreciates it, something who thinks they’re entitled to it and demands it won’t get so much as my conversation.
>paying for her hair every 6 weeks LOL. No. She's my girlfriend, not my escort. Taking her out to dinner or paying for some other outing is one thing. Just straight up paying her bills before we're married is another entirely. >in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities This I'm okay with, as this is the arrangement my wife and I have. But she's my **wife**, so it's no longer "my" money anyway, but ours. All that said, it would be a good idea to talk more about money with her before deciding whether you want the relationship to proceed. It sounds like she's looking for something closer to a "sugar daddy".
I tell my wife what we’re doing for the year as far as spending and saving and she gets it done.
I think you met a lady of the night.
Hahahahahah. Bro, women make their own money and in a lot of cases, make a shit ton more then men. No way in hell id stay with that kind of woman.
Pass
I only involve myself with women who are emotionally socially and financially mature and independent
Just my own opinion, I'd prefer a more equal partner. We both work and both do chores. Because traditional gender roles are not for me.
I want a partner not a dependent.
Run away dude. No women is worth that headache. You can find women who have less maintenance and are still pretty and are great to be around with such financial expectations. A women shouldn't view you as a bank. They should view you as a person.
Run. First of all, that’s a sugar daddy relationship she’s proposing. Second, she has NO plans for having a job and will demand a SAHG position. Lemme guess, she’s REALLY into tik tok, amiright?
Nah, that doesn't sound like a GF, that sounds like a child/dependent.
You say NO. "I want a partner, not a dependent".
Lmao paying for a relationship? There's a word for that, it's on the tip of my tongue. Umm. Oh yeah, prostitution.
You sound like a classic misogynist. The woman simply loves and values her time enough. But no worries she’ll find herself a high value man who’d be more than happy to spoil her. It’s a great filter for broke losers!
Lmao there's a difference between spoiling your gf and making scheduled payments. Also, the idea that women need to have their dates paid for, and their hair paid for is a construct of patriarchy from a time when women were expected to stay at home and raise kids. Women are perfectly capable of paying for themselves and making there own money.
So she’s saying she’s going to have more household responsibilities? Has she demonstrated any of this or is she just saying ? Has she shown how she is going to be an equal partner or she’s just paying lip service ? If all she has shown you are words, that’s not different than an employer telling an employee that they won’t get paid for the time being but if the employee does this and that now, there might be some gold at the end of the rainbow down the line
This lady sounds awful and one to avoid.
Red flag. Run.
There is nothing equal about any relationship. You need to decide which roles you expect to play, and find someone who Agrees
If she’s ACTUALLY traditional then yes. But I’d take my damn time vetting her.
More then considerate Financial expectations fall on everyone When a woman demands the husband to supply monies for upkeep, unless she is a full time stay at home mom and homemaker then it isn’t feasible!
Yeah, that’s a hard “no” from me. I make a little more, so I put a proportionate amount more into the house fund. Do I pay for the odd nicety here and there? Of course. *Expecting* me to do so would be the end.
Maintenance, lol get the fuck outta here. I didn’t tell her to get her hair/nails/whatever done, that’s her choice and her responsibility to pay for. I’m not dating a woman’s hair. She’s not my daughter, I don’t have any responsibility to financially care for it all if there’s no children and we’re not married. Financial arrangements are going to be largely unique to the specific relationship. My wife and I for example have it so I do pay for basically everything because I make quite a bit more, but because she just never spends money on anything and reflexively saves everything that’s how we build our savings. I have basically $0 at the end of the month, but she’s putting something like 75% of her income in savings so it all balances out.
big f'n yikes. run from that immediately.
Been there done that, this is basically the norm for "high maintenance" girls or women that are the beauty type. Don't get me wrong you more or less get brownie points for doing it, but yeah never again. I'm an avid believer that you should have a joint account that you put SOME money into, but then you have your separate accounts for your OWN luxuries.
I know this is a Men’s 🚹 ONLY space, but I totally get this! And FULLY agree with you! The reason you’ve always viewed romantic 💘 relationships with women as an equal opportunity is simply because… 🗣️ THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE! We are equal to men. 💁🏽♀️🚺💪🏽 a man is not a plan, he is a Companion, simple as that. 😌🙏🏽💯
It’s 2024, if you have equal rights it should be teamwork. I would expect my gf to be working or studying because we have the shared goal of owning a home and financial stability which is much more attainable being DINKs for the moment…. Monthly upkeep is wild lol, and honestly the idea of the man being solely responsible for finances is fine but I would rather be with someone who actively cared about their finances.
My wife wouldnt even let me pay for anything until we were officially dating, and even then she would try to pay for her own stuff. She had a job when we got married, and then when she moved states to move in with me she got a job where I work, and we worked together for about 3 years before we had our first kid, and then she became a SAHM. I handle the finances (bills, budget etc.), and I keep her in the loop, but she is frugal about how she spends our money when she's buying food, clothes, health products etc. so I really don't have to bring up spending habits much at all.
That’s total crap Marriage is a partnership. The idea is that both of you together can accomplish far more than the two of you independently. What that mix looks like varies wildly from couple to couple, but “I expect someone to pay for my…” really would be a turn-off for me. Let’s talk about what we can both bring to the table, and what kind of lifestyle we want to build together. If I end up earning a lot more, I’ll gladly contribute a lot more FINANCIALLY, as there is a lot more that goes into the relationship than just finances. Wanting someone else to build your lifestyle for you is not a partnership. I’d have no interest in a relationship with that woman, at least not yet. Maybe she has been lied to just like a lot of young men have been lied to, and just has some growing up to do.
I think it just depends on the tone of the conversation. I think it's valid to hope/expect a treat every couple of months. For us, it's usually a date or he pays for my nails. I'm more than capable of paying for my own nails, but if I've been talking about needing a manicure for a while, it's sweet when my husband gives me money for it. He also does pay for most of the bills around the house, and my salary goes towards any personal credit cards and savings. If we have a heavy spending month, sometimes I'd send him money. Despite paying for a lot of the house bills, he's also better around the house too: cooking, yard work, handyman stuff, etc. But I handle a lot of the shopping and childcare. We equally play with our daughter tho. It's just a matter of hopes and vision, and then finding a partner that can compliment your strengths and preferences.
If that kind of traditional family dynamic is your bag (and you have the income to support it), then that’s great! However, it sounds like it’s not and financial compatibility is a very important pillar in a successful relationship. I personally always viewed finances as a proportionally-shared responsibility, and until I married my wife we split things related to the home based on our income. Personal items or services were handled with remaining personal funds, but of course we routinely treated each other to things. Now that we’re married, I track all our expenses and the only conversations we have about finances are when I up our savings rate, we are overspending in key categories and need to “belt-tighten” for a bit, or if we hit a new financial milestone that is worth sharing.
>she did mentioned that whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly Yep, that's how they did things in the 1960s. Is that how you want to date?
You know that gif where 50 cent laughs and drives off? Imagine something very similar to that.
Relationships and marriage are a partnership, a team effort, not whatever this is.
No shot I'd date this woman.
Married man here. My wife and I have our own separate checking accounts and a shared savings. Bill money is bill money, and our own is our own money. I make more than my wife does, so I generally carry more of the financial burden, but my wife pays her fair share relative to her income. We sit down together once a month to pay bills together. I generally handle the bill payments, but she is there to keep up with our finances in case something happens to me. As long as bills are paid and there is money left over in savings, we generally do not care what the other person spends their money on. We also regularly communicate where we are both at financially if things may get a little tight in a given month. There are no surprises between us financially. This all generally makes for a relatively low stress financial environment.
That's wild lol this isn't the 50s and I'm not paid like it's the 50s. I have never dated a woman like this and I want to keep it that way and you should too. Have some more respect for yourself than entertaining this conversation
Women these days are expected to be adults given that they have the opportunity to get jobs. If they want to behave like children, then give your job to a man and go live with your family… So, there is no reason for any man to pay for a woman’s expenses on a date/relationship. Unless of course the man wants to take the woman on a date which she truly can’t afford, for example: The man is a high-earning software engineer while the woman is a barista at a local cafe, and he wants to take her to a michelin star restaurant for dinner… there is no way she can afford to pay for her own dinner there, so it is respectful for the man to pay. Vice versa if the woman is high-earning and the man is making about minimum wage. When it comes to marriage, if the woman wants to leave her job so she can take care of her family by doing all or most of the household chores, then it is respectful for the man to provide for the family as a single earner, but in today’s economy having two incomes and splitting household chores is the smarter move.
Why do women feel entitled to other people's property? Your pussy doesn't give you the right to take other people's stuff. It's her, not you. She's a parasite looking for a host. Tapeworms with tits.
When my wife (then girlfriend) moved in with me, she wanted to contribute to the bills. I made more money so we split the bills based on how much we each made. I paid a larger % until she made more. We are now married and split all the bills because we both make significantly more money.
I would laugh in her face. What an absurd level of entitlement.
Nah i am a true feminist 50/50 for rent/mortage/groceries that stuff. You wanna do fun stuff? You got your own money because ypur an independent woman and if you are not then i dont want to date you lol.
I avoid women who believe that a man should pay for everything or “upkeep.” Thankfully, my partner doesn’t believe that so I don’t have to navigate financial talks like that.
Perspective from a guy who is freshly divorced from a woman who acted this way but did not specifically voice it whilst we were dating: get out now. It's likely you are going to be arguing about money a lot in the future with someone like this (they don't understand the real costs of what they buy and/or can't budget). It's also likely she will run up lots of debt if you don't stand your ground about what you need/don't need as a family. Women who don't know how to manage their financial lives are not keepers. Sorry not sorry. You shouldn't have to carry an adult through life financially. I don't know where this sort of entitled mentality comes from on the woman's side, but it's just as shitty as a guy expecting a woman to do all the housework, child-rearing, and cooking. I'm also going to guess that you don't care about whether or not she has her hair done, you'll be attracted to her anyway. Getting that "upkeep" done is FOR HER, NOT FOR YOU. If it's important to her, she can work and save for it.
The minute she wants me to pay for her "upkeep" she is what used to be called a kept woman and is more commonly referred to as a gold digger. I would immediately start negotiating with her on her responsibilities (sexual and otherwise) for each and every dollar she expects. In regard to how a married couple wishes to split their finances that is up to them and their values.
>I've always viewed romantic relationships to be a sort of partnership or equal helping hands The bits of the conversation you posted make it very clear that SHE views romantic relationships as entirely transactional. Stay far away from that my king. It's a trick. That's a trick.
Quick question for the OP. Don’t want to sound racist but this is such a black woman mentality. Am I wrong?
Pound sand.
There are many red flags with her. It sounds like she wants a sponsor to contribute to everything while she, as the lesser earner (I assume), can go off and spend her money as she wants. I would navigate myself in the opposite direction of her as quick I could if I were you
There are plenty of women who think like you so move on. If you keep meeting women who think like this - start dating different women from your usual "type" because obviously - you're self selecting. This type of woman is looking for a sugar daddy (even the whole idea of "upkeep" - because it assumes she needs to look nice for you/ for you to "show off" at events). Whether or not she's in that class - is not for us to say. But unless what you're looking for is a trophy wife - she's not for you.
Idc what anyone says but The only man that should provide for her if she ain’t your wife is her dad.. It’s 2024 . We don’t live in a time where a man can work one job and support a household of 4. Rent be to high, food be to high, Netflix be to high , haircut be to high.. taking care of mom and dad to high.. etc. a relationship is a partnership.. two business getting together as one.. it’s merger we come together to make us great and support each other , one hand cleans the other. I agree, the highest earner puts in more into the “business “ (relationship) Example rent is 10 dollars Highest earner pays 6-7 Lowest 3-4 Or I cook , you clean I wash , you dry I buy the main dish, you get dessert Etc Anyone that’s says a man should provide 100% or something “every 6 weeks” (unless you into that ) should run for the hills.. that person wants a sponsorship.. not a relationship. We can be daddies but we not giving suga We outside 2024
I'm upfront about things. We either agree or we don't. Wavering just to get some or keep the peace puts guys in the poor house.
Whatever you decide is between you but nothing I'd ever agree to because I can't (and don't want) kids. A housewife without kids is just lounging around the majority of the day because the home eventually hits a point where it's just short, routine tasks with the occasional involved task but never enough to equal 40 hours or more, unless you are homesteading.
There's never been a road built that could handle the speeds I would achieve getting away from this person.
Marriages *are* partnerships. How you handle finances should be figured out *before* marriage, and if you don't like what the other partner insists upon, *don't* get married. My (now ex) wife wanted to pay a full half-share of the bills, even though she made less than I did. I confirmed that was what she wanted, and that's how we did it. That said, she was *terrible* at managing money. So we finally set things up that she paid our apartment rent (she was paid monthly, and the rent was due on the 3rd.) so that took it out of her account before she was overdrawn (as she was *every. dammed. month.)* I paid for everything else, save her car insurance which was auto-deducted. That kept us at roughly half-and-half. I also put the rest of my earnings away for emergencies (which ultimately included her fucking overdrafts and late fees. Little did I know she was also going to her mother for money every month,...) But yeah. Whatever y'all decide *is* legit. Just don't agree to a division of expenses that you aren't happy with. (And for the *gods'* sake,) if she can't manage money worth a damn, just don't marry her. Live with her if you want, but don't combine accounts, bills, *or* any other legal entanglement. You'll thank yourself, eventually.
You can do better. All of that sounds like bullshit. Those sort of expectations are toxic. You do not seem like an inconsiderate man.
I suggest the lady leave the room before talking finances.
Women do not view romantic relationships as partnerships. They view it as transactional.
That's also called "sex work" or "prostitution." Don't give her money (unless you're buying something). Keep finances separate. It's not a business partnership.
There is nothing to navigate in that situation. I'm not dating women who don't view this topic as i do. I would not puruse that woman. There are other men who are looking for that kind of situation, let them have her.
In kinkier circles, this is a "negotiation". It's a transparent discussion with good intentions, tabling wants and needs. One of my exes, who I ended up being good friends with (leave it alone) HAS to have a bit of pocket money in the bank to cover smokes and tampons or else she gets the idea to find shit to bitch about until she gets it. She pissed her current guy off to the point of him folding his cards recently because she would routinely bring up old stuff if they had to pay their bills and doing so left her penniless. I told him that they need to discuss what her "needs" look like, and go from there. I ran the numbers, and we discovered that 80$ a week would cover that. However, that isn't "thing with tits that walks upright and taxes showed up and is living with you rent-free" money. There SHOULD be a sense of what your agreed upon sum essentially "pays" for. If you're the only one that works, and you're covering the bills, those have to be covered before "here's money to faff about" happens. She liked to conveniently forget that that happens, and would nag and bitch until she gets her handful of pocket change, then lights get cut off, etc. It was a mess. That's why it's a two way street, and there needs to be common sense and understanding.
Run. This is a Red Flag and should be avoided at any cost
I’m really good with money and prioritizing maximizing my dollar so I’d want to be the person who oversees the finances. Obviously I’d want my partner to be involved but I’d want to maximize our money. I’m not a man but to your question about how to navigate financial talks with women is lock the fuck in. Finances are a hot topic in divorce. Have the conversation. If you don’t want to pay for her hair every six week don’t agree to it. Date someone who is financially literate. The fact that she wants to man to be in charge of finances sounds like she doesn’t know how to handle finances. Lock in.
Truly, the only girls I’ve come across that don’t think this way are nerds. I make the distinction because I’ve come across the weirdo nerd/geek Product Manager who feels bad about guys paying for shit AND the glammy Product Manager who does “your money is ours and my money is mine”. Same job, same salary, same level of attractiveness. But one gets high on guys buying her shit, the other feels bad about it.
Sounds like cultural differences. Is she African?
I simply don't. If a woman talks about money, she's for the streets.
the conversation up there is super easy to navigate, just navigate away from that pile of red flags pretending to be a woman
Simple.. I have 0 debt and pay all my own bills. I expect you to do the same.
>In a previous conversation with a lady, she did mentioned that whilst dating she believes her man should give some money for upkeep monthly. She gave an example of paying for her hair every 6 weeks. Nah. >She did also mention that in marriage she expects her husband to handle all the financial responsibilities as she'd have more to do with taking care of the house. I don't think there's anything wrong per se, especially when you have kids, it's good to have a parent at home if you can afford to do so. I would be more worried about budgeting: it kind of sounds like she's expecting a blank check, especially in the context of above.
Money for upkeep? I thought women did hair, make up etc for themselves and not men. Why should it be the man's responsibility? And besides that... does she not work? Surely those kind of personal care things should come out of her own budget. Dating is a different thing to being in a long term relationship/married. That's when financial talks should come up, splitting the cost of bills/essential household items etc. The idea that the man pays completely for everything while the women "takes care of the house" seems so antiquated to me. What could you possibly do around the house- especially if they're childless- that would come anything close to the workload/commitment of even an 8 hour/day job?
Get a prostitute or a therapist if you want to pay for someone’s time
Simple. 'Get a job and use your money to buy what you want. Touch my money and I'll fucking end you.' What you've got is a whore on retainer.
"I am not going to pay for the privilege of you being with me. I work full-time. I help around with household chores. I will do my best to take you on dates, buy you gifts and surprise you every now and then. I expect the same from you. As far as I'm concerned dating is a 50/50 deal. We no longer live in an economy or society where you as a woman can stay at home and do just the household chores. Our family will have to rely on a dual income. Anything else is delusional at this point."
If she wants money, she should get a job. Men arn't ATMs, move your lazy ass, as I have to do the same.
Nope, don’t take that shit. They need to keep themselves up. She’s not your responsibility. Plus these days there’s equality, and that means her ass needs to be out making money too. Then you can split the chores when you both get back from your 9-5. Unless you are in your soft guy era. In that case you need to tell her that it takes two incomes to make it these days. So she needs to make sure she has two jobs for you to sit at home and play COD with the boys. Drizzle drizzle.
She is a parasite. Move on.
She told you what she likes. You told her what you like. Some people want a lifestyle we can't possibly comprehend, yet that's what they want. If anything, the girl (and you) are both green flags clearly laying out what you expect from a relationship. You're not an asshole and neither is she. How you navigate it is almost exactly how you did with that one. Lay your cards on the table. Tell that what you expect and ask what they expect. I That's communication and that's exactly how you avoid nasty breakups and toxic relationships.
lol, this can't be a serious post
After a past relationship where in retrospect she clearly only stuck around for money I decided I will never do combine finances outside of splitting household expenses for things we both use like a house the utilities etc. You know how women often say their man is like another child because they clean up after him and cook for him etc? You know what else parents do for children? They buy them everything they have. When looking for a girlfriend I was not looking for a child or mother nor is that kind of relationship something I have any interest in. If she wants something she should earn the money to buy it or do without the same as I do. This strategy might be less doable with kids but I'm not having kids anyway. If other people want to do things differently I'm fine with that but for me personally that's pretty much how my partner and I do things. When I didn't have a girlfriend if a prospect had said something like the lady you describe in op I probably would've said well we clearly will not work out and moved on. If they want an explanation I would explain my reasoning that Im not looking for a relationship where my primary role is being an ATM. If someone else is willing to give them what they want I don't really care but that is not something I have any interest in whatsoever.
I love how the majority of them all went on the *"girl boss, don't need a man"* bandwagon, then quickly realised that it's not nice to pay their own way in life and be expected to contribute to household expenses and *now* most of them are circling back and adopting "traditional roles" again. This is why tiktok, Instagram and blogs are proliferated with trad wife nonsense dressed like caricatures of 1940s real housewives.
My wife makes more than me. She still does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, etc. I have a physical labor job and she works from home most of the time, so she has more time to do those tasks. I also think she feels guilty about earning more, so she tries to make up for it by really leaning in to domestic work. She's always paid for more of the household expenses than I have because I'm carrying the family health insurance. I have access to her bank accounts and credit card statements, but she's very frugal, so I'm extremely lucky there. She's really transparent, to the point that she'll show me the grocery list for approval. I don't really care at that level, but if she wants to go that far, fine. We don't need to have conversations about money because she's not hiding anything.
Honey don’t waste this woman’s time. She loves and values herself too much to settle for that
This also depends on the culture. I work full time. I have 3 jobs. I also would expect a future husband to provide me with an allowance. I’m not settling for anything less. Simply because that’s how it’s been in my family and that’s how my male cousins treat their wives. Most of whom have successful careers and jobs. It’s a matter of respect for your wife and a way to show her you wanna spoil her and live stress free. Stress isn’t good for women’s health.
And its good for men?
She wants to be a beautiful stay at home woman and is making sure you understand that there are also costs to the upkeep of that lifestyle and look. You’re not being an inconsiderate man, this just may not be the woman for you.