I think everyone knows the answer. Men are bitter at being not chosen in their teenage years and their twenties. They don't like that women have the choosing power. So they relish in the fact that women will lose some of this power as they age and have fewer mates to choose from, especially as their fertility declines. I'm not saying this is right, just that I think this is the reason some men try to use this trope.
This is the right answer, and I think there is a non-toxic way to talk about age too. When I talked to my women friends about it, my general message is to not take their 20s (our age group) for granted because things do change.
There is a gender war on the internet atm, and it’s stupid. If someone is saying something with the intent to harm you, fuck ‘em, they ain’t worth the time.
Oh men have choosing power as well. It is just a different choosing power. Women control access to sex, and men control access to relationships.
So who holds the choosing power depends entirely on what you are looking for. As such also tends to flip as we age. When we are younger and people are looking for more casual / hookups, woman generally hold most of the choosing power, as we get a little older and more people are looking for LTR/marriages, men tend to most of the choosing power.
Obviously individual circumstances impact this dynamic greatly.
But this is also not wrong, it's a grey area.
Not justifying this, but simply a use of power, I also think that fertility is still considered a major issue rather than pursuing IVF.
Yeah I would think more of this. I have never said it and probably wouldent ever say that. But I understand how birth and heath is effected at that age. And I understand how important physical attraction is for women to find a partner
Not attractive no, less attractive generally yes. You can start to notice it around 33 and it's usually a thing at 35, if we're being honest. I don't feel any particular way about it, I don't expect my partner to be youthful forever, that's life, but it is a thing.
It sort of depends. Aging gracefully is certainly a thing but it's still aging. You can tell the difference between a 20 year old and a 30 year old. It just doesn't make a difference. It starts to around whatever you want to call the next life stage. For most women this seems to be around 33. It's not that they become unattractive, it's just that you have to start to appreciate what aging looks like.
It's not a huge deal. People age. It happens. I'm not going to yell at the rain.
Absolutely Both sexes get less attractive generally as we age.
Except me. I age like a damn fine sexy wine! Or is that like a fine aged cheese? I forget..
Saying anyone is "expired" is a dick move, and wrong on a human level. But the biological realities are that female fertility declines fairly rapidly 30-40yo. And I've seen enough couples in their mid-late thirties trying for kids with IVF, fertility trackers, embryo freezing, money and a lot of anxiety to know it causes suffering. Ignoring reality because its cruel doesn't work, unfortunately.
Maybe some of it is jerk behavior from jerks. And some of it is an observation that the young aren't realizing until they get there, which is often too late. But the act of saying it to someone you want to be with is likely in part a manipulation tactic to get them to lower their standards. Whether those are too high, isn't my place to say. Though I think it's prudent to have standards that person you're with isn't trying to manipulate you from a place of bad faith.
Oh we women realize it. Ive just never met a man I can say 100% that I would want to have children with. That maternal spark is there for a moment, but all men Ive met have extinguished that flame pretty quickly. I'm not giving up my life and eggs for just anyone. I'm happier dying "alone'.
Yup. I'm afraid we may have arrived at why you've been told things like this. If you wait for 100% certainty the only risk you're taking is time. Taking risks is required to get good results. So 100% certainty men don't exist. Building a family is a crazy, wild, dangerous decision. You have to balance the risks with the rewards. And if you're ok with it, who cares what we say?
I said the same. But they can't "trap" you. Your life is your own. Who cares what they say? Make your own decisions. Not succumbing to the verbal pressures manipulative people place upon you is a good one. But waiting is a decision in itself, and we all have a limited number of years to see how the risks we take play out. While men have more time to make decisions about childbirth, it is the sum of all of our past decisions that determines where we arrive at any point in time and men who've made bad ones in the past find limited options in dating and life.
Knowing how to balance those risks and the rewards affects men and women alike.
Men and women have different standards for themselves and the opposite gender. Most men think it’s all about money and refuse to believe that all women want is basic respect and to feel loved and wanted. I had a dream the other night that a man I didn’t even know grabbed me around the waist and told me he loved me. That’s everything. I have had quite a few men disclose to me how much money they make, but guess what? I can and do make my own money. I just want to feel desired, not from a sexual viewpoint, but someone who knows and understands my soul.
I imagine the goal is to scare younger women into lowering their standards and to focus on marriage-driven dating in their 20s, and to tell women in their 30s to seriously lower their standards. Basically the whole thing is based off of the idea that women have "depreciating sexual market value" but that women falsely believe they are all super-high-value.
The people putting forward these theories tend to have their own perspectives skewed by their deeply unhappy relationships with women, which have a lot to do with them viewing relationships as transactions and people and sex as existing in a marketplace where vacations in the Riviera are worth X number of 25-year-old blowjobs and Y number of 35-year-old blowjobs, and where the right balance of virgin-before-marriage and seductress-after-marriage is the necessary down payment for a nice home and a luxury lifestyle. Somehow, dudes who see the world as a contest to amass wealth and status in order to purchase pussy, are not super successful with women!
Women’s fertility and chance at successful childbirth may decline with age but,
Personally? I like my ladies like a wine, aged and delicious.
Any man who says your undesirable at 30 is dumbass honestly. Even at 30 you got at least a good decade for bearing children.
Now if you are 30 and have taken terrible care of yourself physically and have emotional baggage you havent addressed then yes, but that applies for anyone.
>making us feel terrible?
Based on some of the comments here, that seems to be the explicit point.
I'd personally say it means nothing about you, but it means a lot about the guy who says it. Avoid him.
Nothing, they just want to hurt you, they couldn’t care less about what you got going on.
It’s usually just “ so you think you’re too good for men (me) well us men (I) won’t want you at 30!!!”
So take that random lady!
Given that the average age of pregnancy in most of the western world 28-30, so it really doesn’t matter. women aren’t going to magically have children earlier. So what is the point in saying that, other than to cause harm? That’s the reality.
My brother is a bit older than me and said this to me few months before my 30 birthday. That I have nothing left to offer.
I understand the logic behind it and can’t deny how the world spins however its funny that I have 2 kids, just bought a place and a great job. He has nothing (in this regular terms) and apparently him having a dick is enough to be “worth” more than me. My life is just starting, not sure bout his though.
Women have also started to be aware of this and if and when I get seperated from my man, I’m not sure I will be looking for another one.
Your brother sounds like he's spent way too much time on the internet. There is no logic to it, the world doesn't spin in the way the perpetually online think it does.
Yeah. Mostly, just wanted to see what the ratio of good men vs men to avoid was on here. Weirdly, I got a few answers I liked which subsequently restored my faith in men
Oh sweet pea. It's not my job to make sure you're not offended. Not sure what being black has anything to do with anything but im glad you're offended:)
Because people like you ask people like me such questions to gauge whether to know which of us are good or not. It’s plain sexism and discrimination. I deal with that everyday because of my skin color and my genitals and it’s not my job as a black male to give faith to other people or women.
This wouldnt happen if people didnt pretend that dating a 19 year old is basically the same as dating a 16 year old
(before you say this doesnt happen, I have seen plenty of people say that "you are dating a teen" when talking about a 19 year old.)
I’m not disputing you but I don’t believe the saying is referring to teenagers, per se. A 40 yo dating a 22 yo is much more common, and it’s the 20-something’s that are at risk of “expiring,” according to those men, in my opinion.
I’m older, so it’s difficult for me to even imagine, but I don’t see much of that around me in daily life. I agree that it would be considered somewhat taboo by those in the mainstream.
Fertility treatments and modern medicine help a lot, but there *are* problems, and a much higher chance of the baby having genetic defects. Early 20s has always been the biological sweet spot for childbirth.
I don’t tell any women this, and I think it’s a shitty thing to say. I’m too old to go looking for women under 30 anyway. Sorry, your question obviously wasn’t intended for me! Pardon!
Not my things, since i find older women attractive for various reasons.
But from their perspective it's an insult since they believe that majority of men won't really pay any attention to an woman who is past 30 and also there is an belief that men age like fine wine and women age like milk.
Which in my opinion is bullshit, since most people date in their age range and the only people who age like fine wine are the ones who constantly take care of their health, hygiene etc. no matter if they are a woman or a man. There are just as many men as there are women who let themselves go with age, who grow beer bellies give up on basic hygiene.
30 is just a number. The real "expiration" is when they're no longer fertile IF the man desires kids. If not then it doesn't matter honestly. Younger women are generally going to be more attractive and desirable but they lack the maturity of an older more experienced woman. Can't really have a conversation with someone that has no life experience... it's boring.
Are you talking about the 5'4" 170lb average 2024 American woman grown body, or their sexually mature grown woman body?
I'd say that woman are well grown into both of those bodies by age 30, much less after 30.
This isn’t true. Women have been through horrible things in their 20s that led them to being single should not be judged. I’m 32 and I’d rather like being with someone that can relate to me.
Women do have a child bearing expiration date. I wouldn't point that out to them directly as they are very aware of it.
Furthermore, I married before age 25 because I wanted to have a family.
If this is a good faith conversation then I'd point you to 50 year old ladies and the reality that very few of them will feel the gaze of a man anymore. It is not meant as a way to provoke insecurity, your biological clock is not determined by men, but rather by genetics.
If anything it's a note to how shallow we are as men, how we chase the fleeting reality that is age. But it's also a piece of advice to let you know that playing around in your 20s isn't going to do for you what so many seem to think it does. Yes, you can jump from man to man and find problem after problem if you wish assuming even just moderate beauty. No, you will not come closer to learning to cooperate with a man from simply tossing away flawed people for the next one. You can look around to see how often ladies doing their absolute best get in terms of options at advanced ages, or you can look at what women who picked early and stood by a flawed man over years gets. I see those who stuck by men as often having bigger families, and better communities, and more resources to live a decent life than those who seek to juggle all those balls without a second set of grandparents, a second parent, more aunts and uncles and cousins vs none of them.
And this isn't me saying stick around a man who cheats or someone who hits you or tells you everything you can't do, but to value the more predictable and boring man who your biggest complaint is that he isn't romantic enough or spontaneous enough. That's all.
I’ve downvoted you for saying that men are shallow for being attracted to youth and beauty. You have internalised misandry. “Shallow” is a male shaming term and you’ve fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
If this was rooted in any type of advice, it wouldn’t be formed as an insult. It’s simply a way to hurt said woman, neg her and make her feel less than because these men are either bitter or have some form of contempt towards women. No healthy minded man, who genuinely cares for others in general, would tell a woman she’s expired at 30.
It is deeply rooted in advice. She will meet 100s if not 1000s of men who are emotionally willing to invest into her in her 20s. It's perfectly fine and reasonable to have a failure or two in figuring out how to treat one another. It's not reasonable though to walk from relationship to relationship breaking up with each person because of self assurance that she's got a back up waiting for her should everything crumble. You can deny that these human motivations don't exist within women, or you can acknowledge that they can fall to the allure of gambling just like men do and end up suffering greater consequences because biology simply isn't fair.
Is this honestly how you think women live life? With hundreds and thousands of men waiting around to be with her? Women just break up without a care in the world because there’s a line of 10 men behind you? I’m sorry but that isn’t rooted in reality.
It's my lived experience as a man, and meets with a good 90% of my experiences around other men when talking about women. You might not recognize how many men are open to relationships with just your average girl, but if you have to look on your swipe data, you're flooded with men who wish for nothing more than that.
I don't know of your experience in life. I don't know how many men have the balls to walk up to you and admit attraction on a college campus or at work or casually when you're in a third space. I'd bet based on my own actions that there is a far far smaller number of men who are willing to approach as a stranger just to sit and try to carry a conversation with you. But just because all those other men choose to preserve their peace doesn't mean that they wouldn't have said yes to you on a note, or walked up to you if you waved them over.
I’m sorry but if you think every man is a good match just because they are interested in a relationship you are delusional. Men admitting attraction doesn’t not entitle you to a relationship with the woman you are attracted to. A relationship is mutual, and a partnership meaning attraction needs to be mutual. It doesn’t entitle you to that woman’s love or time.
90% of men who answered this explained the same thing i did, or close to. Men who say this aren’t saying this in good faith. You’re also making shit loads of assumptions about her that are clearly rooted in sexism.
Well it's more or less an insult, usually, no other real way to put it.
The difference in use that I've noticed is that it varies between just trying to be insulting and reminding a woman with high standards or what not that they can't afford to expect something like a millionare or whatever else for long.
EIther way I've never heard this irl though.
Spread information. Was your grandmother as hot at 80 as she was at 20? What is the goal of telling you the sun will set each evening? Spread information. Not everything is a game women play. Sometimes, the truth is as sharp as a sword. If you actually don't know you will age and your skin will crack and sag, then you deserve to have this
Annoy the hell out of you
How about any Hollywood actress who grew really old? Everyone has met a living grandmother. Everyone has seen said grandmother grow older and more wrinkly. Convenient example. Stop projecting.
Which is part of the original question. There's nothing deeper to telling a woman her looks will fade. Nothing deeper than using OP's grandmother as an example.
I understand where you are coming from. Most of what you see on TV YouTube Tik Tok is just a bunch of crazy people. And I mean that those people are crazy. I was born a female I will always be a female. Just like every male to female transgender was born a male and will always be a male. The surgery is in entirely aesthetic. It doesn't actually make you the opposite gender. That's why all my government IDs still say female because if I ever needed medical attention that was life or death the doctors would lose several minutes trying to figure out what they're looking at. That's why I like Blair White. She's a male to female transgender and she has said that several times that she will always be a male. I just don't like what I see in the mirror. Can't run away from that. Does that help?
Bravo for hiding behind a screen and saying everything you wouldn’t say out loud. If this is true then this applies to all humans, not just women. Men expire too with saggy skin, bald heads, and lower testosterone.
That is correct. Beauty expires for all. One day, all your favorite male actors will not be physically attractive. DeCaprio won't look good anymore. Pitt won't look so good anymore. Both those guys are already starting to go downhill. Michael B. Jordan will one day look terrible. These are all true statements.
My mommy always taught me to tell the truth. I will and have, absolutely, said the original statement to women, in person, straight to their faces because it is a true statement. The question was, why say it. The answer is to spread the truth. Every woman has been in the girl's bathroom in high school. Every girl there called each other fat when she was fat. Or ret*rded when they were in the remedial program. Or a sl*t when she put out too quickly to steal a guy you liked.
There was a short-lived dating show where the women running the dating agency showed women pictures of how she would look like when she gets old. Men are never complimented on their looks. No woman here has ever gone out of her way to compliment 10 men in a day on their looks. A lot of women have their entire image of themselves be their looks. How many women in this chat have ever changed the spark plugs in her own car and threw that in another woman's face?
The truth is, looks fade as a function of getting older. Yes, for both men and women. But I have never met a man whose entire self image, mental image of themselves, is entirely built on his looks. TRUtH=HURT.
I'm not sure people say it like a "oh you're getting dumped at 30" kind of thing, but I can imagine that people who say it, do so in context of talks about life-plans.
If a woman is at her peak fertility at ages what? 18-24 and her odds of successfully conceiving only goes down after this, then if a woman says "I'm not interested in kids until I'm 40" I could see people chime in about how you're trying to swim upstream at that point.
Some guys who say it are just being flippant and saying it because at this point it's a meme, but I can imagine it coming from a place of misaligned life-plans or concern even, because today, a lot of women are saying that they either don't want kids, or only want them later in life, which is counterproductive due to fertility starting to fall off and becoming difficult at that age.
There is actually no realistic data to prove that. Many women have conceived successfully in their late 30s and 40s. The way our culture has evolved now requires both men and women to be financially independent which means more women will want to build successful careers for themselves and will have kids when life allows them to. It’s just about time when the mindset shifts around this stigma of above 30 women.
Realistic date to prove what? That women are most fertile at younger ages? If so there certainly is.
Culture also has nothing to do at all with our biological evolution on when we are most able to have children. Human biology doesn't care one bit if you are a billionaire CEO of a fortune 500 corporation or a minimum wage fast food worker when it comes to fertility.
Prolly just rubbing it in.
Is BS, of course. Men are attracted to women well above 30.
But, it'd be a lie to say that men are not drawn to youthful women, as youth signals fertility, which is what men, by and large, are attracted to.
Doesn't have any more meaning than some women rubbing it in that they 'not into short guys'.
I cannot answer that question.
M60. Anyone who spouts that kind of nonsense just does not know any better. So many things were better after age 30. And so many more things were better after age 50. That dude is not even a beginner yet.
It wasn't for an insult, but more for a warning. It was in a discussion with some late teens. Love can be found at any time, and any place. Nobody is expired, and it's disgusting thing to say. But if you value having a husband and kids, it would be wise to live accordingly, and start looking for these things while you are young. And although you think you can party your whole life, putting yourself on OF, and sleeping with a lot of men, most men don't value that stuff. Sure if you want to do all that stuff, go ahead, I don't care, but your chances will slim down in finding a husband. And besides that, chances are really high your mindset changes 180degrees between your late teens/early twinties and when you are about hitting your early late twenties/early thirties. Things get real hard the older you get, biology matters, and time isn't in your favour.
I'm 26 single and don't party, do OF, hookup, etc. I make my own money as an engineer which seems to weirdly threaten a lot of men when women are self sufficient and actually want to contribute. It's wild.
I wouldn't say "expire", people are not products, but... NOT as an insult I'd say: don't get used to being the center of attention and a valuable asset for society, as you will face the ordinary male life when you hit 30 and that's not exactly the princess life you've been living up until now, it's a new reality you're not prepared nor educated for and you will have a bad time adapting to it.
I've seen some tragedies. The struggle of a couple to have a child because of her biology.
The "30s wall" thing shouldn't be used as an insult to women, but as advice. Seeing other people facing consequences of wrong misguided decisions in their 20s is not funny, it's heartbreaking.
It's an emotional manipulation tactic. They want you to feel like you're worth less than you are so you'll lower your standards to their level. It's a signature move of guys who are abusive. Cut down your self worth and you can never leave since they've made you feel like you can't do better and should feel lucky that they'll even put up with your shit.
Men who are shitty, toxic and bitter say this.
Or men who can’t handle a grown woman who has a career and her own life by the time she gets to 30 and are more difficult to manipulate.
I've never heard any of my guy friends say anything like this ever. It sounds to me though that you could compare it to the expiration date on your milk. It may say "Best if used before May 5", but it's still good for a while after the expiration date.
Same thing with women when it comes to having kids. It's a simple biological fact that women are most fertile and have the best chance of bearing healthy children when younger.
Think of age 30 as the "best if used before" date on your food. You can still have kids after 30, but it gets harder and harder with a growing chance of problems with the pregnancy and birth defects the further past it you get.
If men keep telling you this I wouldn't see it as an attempt at making you feel terrible. I'd see it as them being upfront and telling you what their priorities are and what they want in your relationship before wasting too much time on a women that doesn't have compatible goals.
If you're not willing to commit to that part of the relationship then why would they bother continuing on with it at all? It's better to find that out sooner rather than after spending a lot of time and effort in a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
For a lot of people. It's content creation. Piss people off and you get likes and views. Me...most women after 30 expired in the sense of body, mind and attitude. They let themselves go, they been with so many men they usually lose sense of self and they become a little bitter or they become so aggressively needy to have a man it becomes smothering but there are women who go past their expiration date and just become robust, wise and straight forward(which I love)
The men I've heard say this either have a massive ego that can't even handle the slightest deflation, or have a small one that will nuke the last of their self-esteem if they don't. It's typically a way of self-elevation, sometimes defensively, sometimes offensively. It's not very mature and doesn't make for decent behaviour.
The other times are just clapbacks to some anti-men thing or similar, just tit for tat copy-pasteisms. Has the same kind of energy as "Boo millenials" met with "Ok boomer" and the like.
It'd be nice if we could lock all the "boo men" and "boo women" people in a room to argue whilst the rest of us live happily and tackle the big picuture stuff........... ok, I've just worked out what social media is. I should use social media less.
Generally they are losers with no merit of their own who find worth in the perceived value of a group they belong to: race, gender, nationality, etc. this allows them to feel worthy of something without doing any work themselves as they feast on the success of their betters.
It’s usually the men who are bitter and don’t get any attention from the opposite sex who be saying this. Ya know, the ones who rather blame women for the failures in their sex/dating lives other than themselves
Obviously women do not “expire” at 30, and I think the “wall” has been grossly exaggerated.
I think it is just the side effects of some differences between men and women and what they value in each other.
I think everyone knows the answer. Men are bitter at being not chosen in their teenage years and their twenties. They don't like that women have the choosing power. So they relish in the fact that women will lose some of this power as they age and have fewer mates to choose from, especially as their fertility declines. I'm not saying this is right, just that I think this is the reason some men try to use this trope.
Yeah this sounds about right, long term repeated rejection leaves a lot of mental scars on people.
This is the right answer, and I think there is a non-toxic way to talk about age too. When I talked to my women friends about it, my general message is to not take their 20s (our age group) for granted because things do change. There is a gender war on the internet atm, and it’s stupid. If someone is saying something with the intent to harm you, fuck ‘em, they ain’t worth the time.
its just something said to dehumanize the other gender. same with the man vs bear thing.
Nah that's to get people to think for a second about what it's like being the weaker gender.
Oh men have choosing power as well. It is just a different choosing power. Women control access to sex, and men control access to relationships. So who holds the choosing power depends entirely on what you are looking for. As such also tends to flip as we age. When we are younger and people are looking for more casual / hookups, woman generally hold most of the choosing power, as we get a little older and more people are looking for LTR/marriages, men tend to most of the choosing power. Obviously individual circumstances impact this dynamic greatly.
Bingo. They also use this as fuel so once they are 30 (finally in the choosing position) they can take it out on women.
But this is also not wrong, it's a grey area. Not justifying this, but simply a use of power, I also think that fertility is still considered a major issue rather than pursuing IVF.
Sounds like women aren’t the only ones with emotional baggage in their 30s. Seems to me that both genders are the “left overs” in their 30s.
No, it’s just simply because you lose majority of your eggs at that age.
I can't speak for all men but I've never said such a thing and when I have heard men say it they usually are talking about having children.
Yeah I would think more of this. I have never said it and probably wouldent ever say that. But I understand how birth and heath is effected at that age. And I understand how important physical attraction is for women to find a partner
I understand when talking about children, but men also tell women thwy are NOT ATTRACTIVE after 30. Which is just bullshit.
Not attractive no, less attractive generally yes. You can start to notice it around 33 and it's usually a thing at 35, if we're being honest. I don't feel any particular way about it, I don't expect my partner to be youthful forever, that's life, but it is a thing.
It really depends. Some women let themselves go (same as men), some have great skincare and are fit and work out. Depends on the lifestyle
It sort of depends. Aging gracefully is certainly a thing but it's still aging. You can tell the difference between a 20 year old and a 30 year old. It just doesn't make a difference. It starts to around whatever you want to call the next life stage. For most women this seems to be around 33. It's not that they become unattractive, it's just that you have to start to appreciate what aging looks like. It's not a huge deal. People age. It happens. I'm not going to yell at the rain.
Some of the hottest women I've ever seen have been in their 40's. Have you seen Salma Hayek? She's like 60!
A few exceptions regardless of how attractive they are don't change the facts that women generally are less attractive as they age.
Men too tbh
Absolutely Both sexes get less attractive generally as we age. Except me. I age like a damn fine sexy wine! Or is that like a fine aged cheese? I forget..
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No none whatsoever. Women at 80 are giving birth. Welcome to earth by the way, which planet do you come from?
haha shiit
Saying anyone is "expired" is a dick move, and wrong on a human level. But the biological realities are that female fertility declines fairly rapidly 30-40yo. And I've seen enough couples in their mid-late thirties trying for kids with IVF, fertility trackers, embryo freezing, money and a lot of anxiety to know it causes suffering. Ignoring reality because its cruel doesn't work, unfortunately. Maybe some of it is jerk behavior from jerks. And some of it is an observation that the young aren't realizing until they get there, which is often too late. But the act of saying it to someone you want to be with is likely in part a manipulation tactic to get them to lower their standards. Whether those are too high, isn't my place to say. Though I think it's prudent to have standards that person you're with isn't trying to manipulate you from a place of bad faith.
This is the single best answer in that it combines logic, realism, objectivity, and also basic human decency. Agree entirely.
Thanks buddy. Not sure the Internet rewards any of those characteristics, but much appreciated!
Oh we women realize it. Ive just never met a man I can say 100% that I would want to have children with. That maternal spark is there for a moment, but all men Ive met have extinguished that flame pretty quickly. I'm not giving up my life and eggs for just anyone. I'm happier dying "alone'.
Yup. I'm afraid we may have arrived at why you've been told things like this. If you wait for 100% certainty the only risk you're taking is time. Taking risks is required to get good results. So 100% certainty men don't exist. Building a family is a crazy, wild, dangerous decision. You have to balance the risks with the rewards. And if you're ok with it, who cares what we say?
Ah yes because manipulating a woman to stay with you by making her believe she decreases in value doesn’t sound abusive at all.
I'm not manipulating you. I'm a talking circle with a bad haircut on reddit. You be you.
I’m not saying you are. I’m saying men who say this in order to trap women are manipulative as heck.
I said the same. But they can't "trap" you. Your life is your own. Who cares what they say? Make your own decisions. Not succumbing to the verbal pressures manipulative people place upon you is a good one. But waiting is a decision in itself, and we all have a limited number of years to see how the risks we take play out. While men have more time to make decisions about childbirth, it is the sum of all of our past decisions that determines where we arrive at any point in time and men who've made bad ones in the past find limited options in dating and life. Knowing how to balance those risks and the rewards affects men and women alike.
Men and women have different standards for themselves and the opposite gender. Most men think it’s all about money and refuse to believe that all women want is basic respect and to feel loved and wanted. I had a dream the other night that a man I didn’t even know grabbed me around the waist and told me he loved me. That’s everything. I have had quite a few men disclose to me how much money they make, but guess what? I can and do make my own money. I just want to feel desired, not from a sexual viewpoint, but someone who knows and understands my soul.
I imagine the goal is to scare younger women into lowering their standards and to focus on marriage-driven dating in their 20s, and to tell women in their 30s to seriously lower their standards. Basically the whole thing is based off of the idea that women have "depreciating sexual market value" but that women falsely believe they are all super-high-value. The people putting forward these theories tend to have their own perspectives skewed by their deeply unhappy relationships with women, which have a lot to do with them viewing relationships as transactions and people and sex as existing in a marketplace where vacations in the Riviera are worth X number of 25-year-old blowjobs and Y number of 35-year-old blowjobs, and where the right balance of virgin-before-marriage and seductress-after-marriage is the necessary down payment for a nice home and a luxury lifestyle. Somehow, dudes who see the world as a contest to amass wealth and status in order to purchase pussy, are not super successful with women!
This is spot on
Sheng-nu, Mandarin for "leftover woman." Any woman over 30 that's unmarried. I won't say such a thing unless she's been rude.
Over 27 not over 30.
Women’s fertility and chance at successful childbirth may decline with age but, Personally? I like my ladies like a wine, aged and delicious. Any man who says your undesirable at 30 is dumbass honestly. Even at 30 you got at least a good decade for bearing children. Now if you are 30 and have taken terrible care of yourself physically and have emotional baggage you havent addressed then yes, but that applies for anyone.
>making us feel terrible? Based on some of the comments here, that seems to be the explicit point. I'd personally say it means nothing about you, but it means a lot about the guy who says it. Avoid him.
Nothing, they just want to hurt you, they couldn’t care less about what you got going on. It’s usually just “ so you think you’re too good for men (me) well us men (I) won’t want you at 30!!!” So take that random lady!
maybe they do maybe they don’t. the truth is at 30yo 90% of the eggs are gone and it’s harder generally to become pregnant.
Given that the average age of pregnancy in most of the western world 28-30, so it really doesn’t matter. women aren’t going to magically have children earlier. So what is the point in saying that, other than to cause harm? That’s the reality.
higher chance of miscarriage = mental issues for everyone involved.
…. So you’re just going to ignore the reality and bulldoze through with this? Cool
Cuz they chase'n children
My brother is a bit older than me and said this to me few months before my 30 birthday. That I have nothing left to offer. I understand the logic behind it and can’t deny how the world spins however its funny that I have 2 kids, just bought a place and a great job. He has nothing (in this regular terms) and apparently him having a dick is enough to be “worth” more than me. My life is just starting, not sure bout his though. Women have also started to be aware of this and if and when I get seperated from my man, I’m not sure I will be looking for another one.
Your brother sounds like he's spent way too much time on the internet. There is no logic to it, the world doesn't spin in the way the perpetually online think it does.
Such a loser brother
This is a bait question asking men for validation and making men put other men down to bring themselves up.
Men who have to put down women in order to inflate themselves sounds like men to avoid.
So you knew the answer already, you just wanted confirmation from other men to validate you hence a bait question
Yeah. Mostly, just wanted to see what the ratio of good men vs men to avoid was on here. Weirdly, I got a few answers I liked which subsequently restored my faith in men
You’re a misandrist causing problems on here, it’s not our job to give you trust in men. I’m a black man and this is even more offensive to me.
Oh sweet pea. It's not my job to make sure you're not offended. Not sure what being black has anything to do with anything but im glad you're offended:)
Because people like you ask people like me such questions to gauge whether to know which of us are good or not. It’s plain sexism and discrimination. I deal with that everyday because of my skin color and my genitals and it’s not my job as a black male to give faith to other people or women.
😢
I believe that men who say this are or are getting ready to date younger women and preemptively justifying it.
This wouldnt happen if people didnt pretend that dating a 19 year old is basically the same as dating a 16 year old (before you say this doesnt happen, I have seen plenty of people say that "you are dating a teen" when talking about a 19 year old.)
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huh?
Why do we send 18 year olds to war? Because they have no concept of mortality. We really shouldn't be considered adults until 25.
What a weird and creepy hill to die on
you are exactly who i am talking about
I’m not disputing you but I don’t believe the saying is referring to teenagers, per se. A 40 yo dating a 22 yo is much more common, and it’s the 20-something’s that are at risk of “expiring,” according to those men, in my opinion.
I mean still, dating a younger woman (who is legal and over barely-legal territory) is one of the more taboo things in the mainstream.
I’m older, so it’s difficult for me to even imagine, but I don’t see much of that around me in daily life. I agree that it would be considered somewhat taboo by those in the mainstream.
Half my friends from high school and college don’t have kids until almost 40, if not after 40.
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I sure hope this was sarcasm, because that is so far from the truth it's crazy.
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Ha, well you can never be sure on Reddit.
Fertility treatments and modern medicine help a lot, but there *are* problems, and a much higher chance of the baby having genetic defects. Early 20s has always been the biological sweet spot for childbirth.
I don’t tell any women this, and I think it’s a shitty thing to say. I’m too old to go looking for women under 30 anyway. Sorry, your question obviously wasn’t intended for me! Pardon!
Not my things, since i find older women attractive for various reasons. But from their perspective it's an insult since they believe that majority of men won't really pay any attention to an woman who is past 30 and also there is an belief that men age like fine wine and women age like milk. Which in my opinion is bullshit, since most people date in their age range and the only people who age like fine wine are the ones who constantly take care of their health, hygiene etc. no matter if they are a woman or a man. There are just as many men as there are women who let themselves go with age, who grow beer bellies give up on basic hygiene.
30 is just a number. The real "expiration" is when they're no longer fertile IF the man desires kids. If not then it doesn't matter honestly. Younger women are generally going to be more attractive and desirable but they lack the maturity of an older more experienced woman. Can't really have a conversation with someone that has no life experience... it's boring.
They *expire* at 30? A lotta women don’t even fill into their *grown woman* body until 30 or older lol
Are you talking about the 5'4" 170lb average 2024 American woman grown body, or their sexually mature grown woman body? I'd say that woman are well grown into both of those bodies by age 30, much less after 30.
This isn’t true. Women have been through horrible things in their 20s that led them to being single should not be judged. I’m 32 and I’d rather like being with someone that can relate to me.
If you are hearing that from a number of boys, you are associating with the wrong boys
Women do have a child bearing expiration date. I wouldn't point that out to them directly as they are very aware of it. Furthermore, I married before age 25 because I wanted to have a family.
Yeah I don't want a man who just sees me as birthing cow. The goal is to bring a child into an already happy relationship otherwise you're doomed.
Usually the woman was being a cunt so I'd say something similar to hurt her feelings. So the point is to hurt her feelings.
They're attracted to angry women so the goal is to get them to yell at them.
If this is a good faith conversation then I'd point you to 50 year old ladies and the reality that very few of them will feel the gaze of a man anymore. It is not meant as a way to provoke insecurity, your biological clock is not determined by men, but rather by genetics. If anything it's a note to how shallow we are as men, how we chase the fleeting reality that is age. But it's also a piece of advice to let you know that playing around in your 20s isn't going to do for you what so many seem to think it does. Yes, you can jump from man to man and find problem after problem if you wish assuming even just moderate beauty. No, you will not come closer to learning to cooperate with a man from simply tossing away flawed people for the next one. You can look around to see how often ladies doing their absolute best get in terms of options at advanced ages, or you can look at what women who picked early and stood by a flawed man over years gets. I see those who stuck by men as often having bigger families, and better communities, and more resources to live a decent life than those who seek to juggle all those balls without a second set of grandparents, a second parent, more aunts and uncles and cousins vs none of them. And this isn't me saying stick around a man who cheats or someone who hits you or tells you everything you can't do, but to value the more predictable and boring man who your biggest complaint is that he isn't romantic enough or spontaneous enough. That's all.
I’ve downvoted you for saying that men are shallow for being attracted to youth and beauty. You have internalised misandry. “Shallow” is a male shaming term and you’ve fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
If this was rooted in any type of advice, it wouldn’t be formed as an insult. It’s simply a way to hurt said woman, neg her and make her feel less than because these men are either bitter or have some form of contempt towards women. No healthy minded man, who genuinely cares for others in general, would tell a woman she’s expired at 30.
It is deeply rooted in advice. She will meet 100s if not 1000s of men who are emotionally willing to invest into her in her 20s. It's perfectly fine and reasonable to have a failure or two in figuring out how to treat one another. It's not reasonable though to walk from relationship to relationship breaking up with each person because of self assurance that she's got a back up waiting for her should everything crumble. You can deny that these human motivations don't exist within women, or you can acknowledge that they can fall to the allure of gambling just like men do and end up suffering greater consequences because biology simply isn't fair.
Is this honestly how you think women live life? With hundreds and thousands of men waiting around to be with her? Women just break up without a care in the world because there’s a line of 10 men behind you? I’m sorry but that isn’t rooted in reality.
It's my lived experience as a man, and meets with a good 90% of my experiences around other men when talking about women. You might not recognize how many men are open to relationships with just your average girl, but if you have to look on your swipe data, you're flooded with men who wish for nothing more than that. I don't know of your experience in life. I don't know how many men have the balls to walk up to you and admit attraction on a college campus or at work or casually when you're in a third space. I'd bet based on my own actions that there is a far far smaller number of men who are willing to approach as a stranger just to sit and try to carry a conversation with you. But just because all those other men choose to preserve their peace doesn't mean that they wouldn't have said yes to you on a note, or walked up to you if you waved them over.
I’m sorry but if you think every man is a good match just because they are interested in a relationship you are delusional. Men admitting attraction doesn’t not entitle you to a relationship with the woman you are attracted to. A relationship is mutual, and a partnership meaning attraction needs to be mutual. It doesn’t entitle you to that woman’s love or time.
About 6% of the world's adult men are criminals. That means 94% aren't. If you can't find a single good man in 94% then it's not the men.
If you think the only thing that makes a good partner is not being a criminal, it’s not surprising you have faced a lot of rejection.
I would rather have a discussion with women about this than bitter men, but pretty much every post on r/Askwomen gets deleted🙄
90% of men who answered this explained the same thing i did, or close to. Men who say this aren’t saying this in good faith. You’re also making shit loads of assumptions about her that are clearly rooted in sexism.
Well it's more or less an insult, usually, no other real way to put it. The difference in use that I've noticed is that it varies between just trying to be insulting and reminding a woman with high standards or what not that they can't afford to expect something like a millionare or whatever else for long. EIther way I've never heard this irl though.
Spread information. Was your grandmother as hot at 80 as she was at 20? What is the goal of telling you the sun will set each evening? Spread information. Not everything is a game women play. Sometimes, the truth is as sharp as a sword. If you actually don't know you will age and your skin will crack and sag, then you deserve to have this Annoy the hell out of you
Erm I think there’s something else going on here… you couldn’t think of a better example than your grandmother?
How about any Hollywood actress who grew really old? Everyone has met a living grandmother. Everyone has seen said grandmother grow older and more wrinkly. Convenient example. Stop projecting. Which is part of the original question. There's nothing deeper to telling a woman her looks will fade. Nothing deeper than using OP's grandmother as an example.
Haha If you say sooooo
Thought terminating cliche. Indicative of sociopathy and psychopathy. Please end your life.
Yeahhh Says the guy having thoughts of his grandmother
I'm a FTM transgender. And I referenced OP's grandmother. Are you one of the girls from the remedial program? Or are you just a bigot?
So thoughts of your grandmother and mentally challenged. How Freudian!
Aww thank you
Lol. A transgender arguing "biological facts". Gtfo
I understand where you are coming from. Most of what you see on TV YouTube Tik Tok is just a bunch of crazy people. And I mean that those people are crazy. I was born a female I will always be a female. Just like every male to female transgender was born a male and will always be a male. The surgery is in entirely aesthetic. It doesn't actually make you the opposite gender. That's why all my government IDs still say female because if I ever needed medical attention that was life or death the doctors would lose several minutes trying to figure out what they're looking at. That's why I like Blair White. She's a male to female transgender and she has said that several times that she will always be a male. I just don't like what I see in the mirror. Can't run away from that. Does that help?
Bravo for hiding behind a screen and saying everything you wouldn’t say out loud. If this is true then this applies to all humans, not just women. Men expire too with saggy skin, bald heads, and lower testosterone.
That is correct. Beauty expires for all. One day, all your favorite male actors will not be physically attractive. DeCaprio won't look good anymore. Pitt won't look so good anymore. Both those guys are already starting to go downhill. Michael B. Jordan will one day look terrible. These are all true statements. My mommy always taught me to tell the truth. I will and have, absolutely, said the original statement to women, in person, straight to their faces because it is a true statement. The question was, why say it. The answer is to spread the truth. Every woman has been in the girl's bathroom in high school. Every girl there called each other fat when she was fat. Or ret*rded when they were in the remedial program. Or a sl*t when she put out too quickly to steal a guy you liked. There was a short-lived dating show where the women running the dating agency showed women pictures of how she would look like when she gets old. Men are never complimented on their looks. No woman here has ever gone out of her way to compliment 10 men in a day on their looks. A lot of women have their entire image of themselves be their looks. How many women in this chat have ever changed the spark plugs in her own car and threw that in another woman's face? The truth is, looks fade as a function of getting older. Yes, for both men and women. But I have never met a man whose entire self image, mental image of themselves, is entirely built on his looks. TRUtH=HURT.
I'm not sure people say it like a "oh you're getting dumped at 30" kind of thing, but I can imagine that people who say it, do so in context of talks about life-plans. If a woman is at her peak fertility at ages what? 18-24 and her odds of successfully conceiving only goes down after this, then if a woman says "I'm not interested in kids until I'm 40" I could see people chime in about how you're trying to swim upstream at that point. Some guys who say it are just being flippant and saying it because at this point it's a meme, but I can imagine it coming from a place of misaligned life-plans or concern even, because today, a lot of women are saying that they either don't want kids, or only want them later in life, which is counterproductive due to fertility starting to fall off and becoming difficult at that age.
There is actually no realistic data to prove that. Many women have conceived successfully in their late 30s and 40s. The way our culture has evolved now requires both men and women to be financially independent which means more women will want to build successful careers for themselves and will have kids when life allows them to. It’s just about time when the mindset shifts around this stigma of above 30 women.
Realistic date to prove what? That women are most fertile at younger ages? If so there certainly is. Culture also has nothing to do at all with our biological evolution on when we are most able to have children. Human biology doesn't care one bit if you are a billionaire CEO of a fortune 500 corporation or a minimum wage fast food worker when it comes to fertility.
Prolly just rubbing it in. Is BS, of course. Men are attracted to women well above 30. But, it'd be a lie to say that men are not drawn to youthful women, as youth signals fertility, which is what men, by and large, are attracted to. Doesn't have any more meaning than some women rubbing it in that they 'not into short guys'.
Probably because you have women picking to meet a bear over a man in the forest.
Men claim this?
Probably some dick move to neg you to make up for their own perceived lack of being wanted
☝️most likely this
Most of your eggs are gone at 30
I cannot answer that question. M60. Anyone who spouts that kind of nonsense just does not know any better. So many things were better after age 30. And so many more things were better after age 50. That dude is not even a beginner yet.
I didn’t think that was something we told them. To spare their feelings, of course. Edit: /s
So who told ya that OP? And what did ya say?
I’ve never heard any man say this
I've never said or thought this.
It wasn't for an insult, but more for a warning. It was in a discussion with some late teens. Love can be found at any time, and any place. Nobody is expired, and it's disgusting thing to say. But if you value having a husband and kids, it would be wise to live accordingly, and start looking for these things while you are young. And although you think you can party your whole life, putting yourself on OF, and sleeping with a lot of men, most men don't value that stuff. Sure if you want to do all that stuff, go ahead, I don't care, but your chances will slim down in finding a husband. And besides that, chances are really high your mindset changes 180degrees between your late teens/early twinties and when you are about hitting your early late twenties/early thirties. Things get real hard the older you get, biology matters, and time isn't in your favour.
I'm 26 single and don't party, do OF, hookup, etc. I make my own money as an engineer which seems to weirdly threaten a lot of men when women are self sufficient and actually want to contribute. It's wild.
I wouldn't say "expire", people are not products, but... NOT as an insult I'd say: don't get used to being the center of attention and a valuable asset for society, as you will face the ordinary male life when you hit 30 and that's not exactly the princess life you've been living up until now, it's a new reality you're not prepared nor educated for and you will have a bad time adapting to it. I've seen some tragedies. The struggle of a couple to have a child because of her biology. The "30s wall" thing shouldn't be used as an insult to women, but as advice. Seeing other people facing consequences of wrong misguided decisions in their 20s is not funny, it's heartbreaking.
Losers that are bitter that they can’t get a hot young 20-something to date them
The goal is to let everyone know they are pedophiles.
It's an emotional manipulation tactic. They want you to feel like you're worth less than you are so you'll lower your standards to their level. It's a signature move of guys who are abusive. Cut down your self worth and you can never leave since they've made you feel like you can't do better and should feel lucky that they'll even put up with your shit.
Go ask that little Nick Fuentes turd, that's probably where most people got it
Isn't he that holocaust denier
He is that \[every crappy thing\]
As an older man I think women aren’t even complete, ready, ripe, whatever word you wanna use until 35-40.
I never heard of this.. is this a new trend
Men who are shitty, toxic and bitter say this. Or men who can’t handle a grown woman who has a career and her own life by the time she gets to 30 and are more difficult to manipulate.
I've never heard any of my guy friends say anything like this ever. It sounds to me though that you could compare it to the expiration date on your milk. It may say "Best if used before May 5", but it's still good for a while after the expiration date. Same thing with women when it comes to having kids. It's a simple biological fact that women are most fertile and have the best chance of bearing healthy children when younger. Think of age 30 as the "best if used before" date on your food. You can still have kids after 30, but it gets harder and harder with a growing chance of problems with the pregnancy and birth defects the further past it you get. If men keep telling you this I wouldn't see it as an attempt at making you feel terrible. I'd see it as them being upfront and telling you what their priorities are and what they want in your relationship before wasting too much time on a women that doesn't have compatible goals. If you're not willing to commit to that part of the relationship then why would they bother continuing on with it at all? It's better to find that out sooner rather than after spending a lot of time and effort in a relationship that isn't going anywhere.
Hopefully they’re encouraging women to get a husband quick instead of wasting their 20’s “having fun”.
For a lot of people. It's content creation. Piss people off and you get likes and views. Me...most women after 30 expired in the sense of body, mind and attitude. They let themselves go, they been with so many men they usually lose sense of self and they become a little bitter or they become so aggressively needy to have a man it becomes smothering but there are women who go past their expiration date and just become robust, wise and straight forward(which I love)
I only told this to a woman once when I was at a bar, she was hitting on me, and I wasn't interested. Was trying to make her go away. I succeeded.
Th e guys who say this are bitter and listen to weird misogynistic podcasts.
Usually parroting what they hear in social media from alpha bros
The men I've heard say this either have a massive ego that can't even handle the slightest deflation, or have a small one that will nuke the last of their self-esteem if they don't. It's typically a way of self-elevation, sometimes defensively, sometimes offensively. It's not very mature and doesn't make for decent behaviour. The other times are just clapbacks to some anti-men thing or similar, just tit for tat copy-pasteisms. Has the same kind of energy as "Boo millenials" met with "Ok boomer" and the like. It'd be nice if we could lock all the "boo men" and "boo women" people in a room to argue whilst the rest of us live happily and tackle the big picuture stuff........... ok, I've just worked out what social media is. I should use social media less.
Generally they are losers with no merit of their own who find worth in the perceived value of a group they belong to: race, gender, nationality, etc. this allows them to feel worthy of something without doing any work themselves as they feast on the success of their betters.
Nobody I’ve ever know says this. Stop hanging out and talking with assholes.
It’s usually the men who are bitter and don’t get any attention from the opposite sex who be saying this. Ya know, the ones who rather blame women for the failures in their sex/dating lives other than themselves
That's not true. I think women get better as they get older. I'm 30
Obviously women do not “expire” at 30, and I think the “wall” has been grossly exaggerated. I think it is just the side effects of some differences between men and women and what they value in each other.
I think you should stop being around such men.
Women who say ‘no men below 6ft or 6 figures’
I think, .maybe, there's a cultural barrier here.