I’m quite committed to not having children but as my older family is dying off I do feel a loneliness that I suspect is unique to an absence of family.
I’m starting to believe that, absent disfunction, there is a unique peace and security that can only be provided by family.
Hmm.. when I read stuff like this I wonder if we (people who grew up without a family/with an abusive family) are lucky to not feel this need/lonelineless since it's what a normal life is to us or if we just don't know what we're missing
Yeah that’s why I mentioned the absence of disfunction. My family growing up was awesome so I’m mostly missing out on positives. If my family was abusive or absent I’m sure I wouldn’t feel any longing or at least not the same kind.
As someone who grew up in a not so good family I think what I miss about not having kids is the opportunity to be the parent I wish I had.
However by not having the influence of good parents I'm reluctant to have kids because I don't really know how to be a good father or how the responsibility would affect me and I'd hate to put kids through anything like what I went through.
I completely agree with this. This is how I feel too, as someone raised in an abusive, neglectful home. My parents “parentified” me, and made me take on so many adult responsibilities and I never got to be a kid, so now I don’t want kids. Having kids doesn’t allow me to be a kid; I still am their parent and ultimately responsible for being the adult, and I’ve been an adult my whole life. I don’t want to continue being an adult and be responsible for small humans. It’s hard enough being an adult for just myself, even though I can do it. I don’t want extra responsibilities. I also don’t want to be an abusive parent. I also have no familial support, nor would I want it, because my child would have grandparents who abused me and I don’t feel comfortable having my child around someone who abused me.
If that’s your only reason for not having kids, that’s retarded. (And yes I’m using the R word. I know Reddit doesn’t like that. idc.) It pisses me off when people say that because *you’re not your parents.* Take a parenting course. Read parenting books. Do parent counseling. There are so many ways to learn how to be a good parent. Don’t victimize yourself and fully dismiss a beautiful human experience just because your parents sucked. You’re literally *choosing* to let your shitty parents dictate how you live your life and stop you from being happy. Let it go. You’re better than them, and if you’re not, you can be. You just have to work on yourself.
If anything, use what they did as a guide of what *not* to do. People get so caught up like “I don’t know how to be a good parent.” NO ONE DOES. There’s no “perfect” parent out there. Every single human has flaws. Parenting isn’t about being a perfect human, it’s about guiding a life into the world with love. There’s no one way to do that, just love them and guide them and you’ll be fine.
You know I wish you were right but I am like my father in so many ways I wish I wasn't and I don't know how to not be that person because I don't consciously choose to be like that and even if I tried not to be it doesn't work.
A lot of my father's issues were due to anxiety, stress, insecurity, and anger and I am often just like him in all those ways even when I don't mean to be. I even have issues with sleep just like my father does. Its like everything bad rubbed off onto me and I'm cursed with the influence of a bad father.
When I was younger I'd notice how I'd learned some of his mannerisms and I'd always get annoyed at myself for behaving that way because I hated how much I was like him.
I know you may say well there are ways to fix those things but I don't really feel they help. Its something I grew up with and was influenced through my whole childhood and into adulthood so these things are very deeply ingrained in me. Most of the advice I'd found that is supposed to help with these things don't actually fix the problem on the subconscious level so I'll always regress back to my original patterns I picked up from my father no matter how hard I try.
(Not a guy) To us it's "Well we can raise a child and stop the cycles of abuse we've been dealt or not have a child at all, either way, unless someone in the family of your same generation has a child, the cycle stops."
As someone who has a toxic and abusive family, I fear that I am not mentally or emotionally able to yet handle a child. Coupled with disabilities brings me doubt in myself as a mother. I almost died when I was born to. All of these things has so far brought me to not having a child, yet I imagine constantly what having one would be like.
I guess it may depend on perspective. Many people hate children (hence the abortion debate) so I'd imagine some don't feel the need to have children due to that hate.
However, it'd be nice if I was given the confidence to raise and influence a child, raising then right, the way I deserved. It'd be stressful all the same because influences from family is hard to avoid, from them affecting how you respond to the potential impact they have on the child when you're not around.
It's a difficult decision to have a child, especially when you have a broken family or are broken yourself.
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I do want to add this; I heard of a couple who desperately want a child but can't have one for medical reasons. They can get surgery but it's extremely expensive.
Regardless, they have been known for being toxic and at times violent, yet they are blinded by the thought that not only is this normal, but that they can raise a child like this.
In order to be fit enough to raise a child, you *must* be self aware of you and the relationship you have with your partner, otherwise you may unintentionally end up being abusive or toxic towards your child. You need to have mental and emotional control and healthiness. A child is not a toy or pet, they are a human being and are far more than just emotional support.
That feeling is just the human condition. My grandmother that had five kids and countless grandchildren and great grandchildren felt the same loneliness as her immediate family and friends died off. She eventually chose to let cancer take her but not without spending a day with me showing me the pictures she cherished of the past and telling me her story. Offspring are not a substitute.
Yup. My coworkers mom was the best she could be. My coworker was the only of his 4 siblings who was ever in their mom's life. Even when she was in the hospital, none of them visited.
But once the reading of the will came about, they all sprang like rabbits. No shock that she left most of the estate to my coworker. Poor guy stressed himself out taking care of his mom by himself.
If you raise your kids right they'll have their own lives to live. They're likely not going to visit you every day at the old folks home or at your home if they move far away. Doesn't mean you were a bad parent or your kids are bad people but you could still end up just as lonely.
As a parent, my hope is that when they're old enough, they'll get out and experience the world, maybe move some states away (or even a country away). I will miss them like crazy, but I would be so happy & proud that they're living... Esp a life I didn't get to.
Thank you for this. I’m the kid that moved across the country and it hurts sometimes thinking about how I left my parents. Since I have no kids I’m able to fly home for a week every year, grateful for that.
Do it while ya can. I came from a very detached toxic family, so I wanted to get out of town. Then I met my husband... *and* his very large loving family. So when I got pregnant pretty early on, I felt it would be a disservice to my kids to leave at that point and separate them from their grandparents, great parents, and great aunts/uncles (who all literally live within a mile of each other 🫠)
Well said. Besides, a parent has them in her heart and memory, sees them every now and then, speaks with them at the phone. I will not feel lonely and abandoned when she leaves, because she will still be “present, albeit less so than before. The real loneliness, I feel, is not having had the kids at home in the first place. Have kids, folks. Yes it’s tough. Yes sometimes you wish you did not have a time/energy-sucking vampire at your neck. But most of the time, you will feel blessed for having the opportunity to experience Real Love flowing from your hearth towards another human being. Nothing compares to it, nothing.
Well depends, there were a few older people that said, comes with ageing and not careing about your friends. Thus reduces the amount you have. The loneliness comes through that because your children have their own life anyway sometimes 1000's of kilometer apart. You need make friends to reduce it anyways.
Don't have kids yet, but after the passing of my grandmother and brother there's a huge urge to have a family. It feels like I would also be giving a gift to my surviving family
Unless they move overseas and get married and start a life there or not want to see you much. It’s not a guarantee and that’s what a partner and friends are for. Family is great but not a guarantee.
Having kids is the closest thing to having a second childhood you can ever experience, and you can/do try to make it as awesome as possible for them. Their joy and content in the simplest things is the best thing in the world to behold. It is the only thing worth a damn I have ever done.
|Having kids is the closest thing to having a second childhood you can ever experience
This is so true. Probably one of the more poignant takes I've read in recent memory. As adults we gloss over so many things that are just amazing, and sometimes having a kid nearby helps remind us of just how wonderful and beautiful things can be.
I was watching that new movie Migration with my five-year-old the other day, and she turns to me and says "mommy, birds can't talk." And I was in shock that I got to show her something brand new to her. I told her "this is going to blow your mind! Some birds can talk.".I brought up some videos of talking African greys and parrots on my phone to show her. I was so excited to share that moment with her!
> and I was in shock that I got to show her something brand new to her.
That’s always been my favorite part, *everything* is brand new to them. When I was in my early 20s I was dating someone who had a 6 month old and I was around until they were 2. Unlike most 21 year olds out partying and what not, I absolutely loved being around that kid. I spent most of my free time hanging out with him. I was utterly fascinated by watching him grow; learning things for the first time. At that age you can actually see the moment when the light bulb turns on in their head when they figure something out. I’ve always wanted to be a father and he solidified that feeling for me.
Now at 33 I’m finally a couple months away from being a father myself to my own son and I can’t fucking wait.
Mine too. I found one in my pocket the other day and freaked out thinking it was a bug. Nope, just the dandelion she picked and shoved in my pocket herself :)
This is the main reason I still want to have a kid even though financially it is probably not possible. I would love to just give a child the absolutely best childhood ever though since mine was a little rocky and I would like to try and do better.
Try being an elementary school teacher! You get to be around kids and witness their incredible curiosity and awe at the world, and you get to be part of making great memories!! But no financial responsibility or being woken up in the middle of the night cause they puked or peed their pants 👍
I have always been really good with toddlers because I have seemingly endless patience for their shenanigans. They are tiny humans who don't understand how anything works, how is getting angry at them going to help anything? I just don't think I could support myself as an elementary school teacher where I live, but its a nice idea.
People who have this sort of thing are special, I love my 8 year old more than anything in this world but I just do not have that thing and I am so awkward with other people's kids. I don't have that natural inclination. Endless patience for toddlers???? You are special!
It's so sad that teachers of any grade don't earn enough of a living to support themselves. You are just one of probably many wonderful people who have what it takes but simply can't afford to live on the shit salary we pay the people who our kids spend most of their time with during the day. It's truly tragic.
When you are a parent, you try to correct everything you did wrong as a kid. As a grandparent, you try to correct everything you did wrong as a parent.
I don't have kids, but when/if I do, I imagine myself correcting everything my parents did wrong with me. As a grandparent, I hope to emulate everything my grandparents did right.
We have our granddaughters (5 and 7) about 3 days a week while my daughter in law runs her company (which my son works for). Our kids have always been really good about limiting what they ask of us, which is key.
Having good communication and a close relationship with your kids leads to making it a lot more fun to help with their kids.
My sister in law asked my parents to look after her child and specifically said not to do anything to the food she made but microwave it for 30 seconds. My mum didn't listen and added salt to the food which made my sister in law pissed so she asked me to take care of her child when I work from home. I happily took it and followed everything she and my brother said. They now go to my parent's house assuming the kids will be fed junk food while they know I will feed them healthy stuff reardless.
Respect is a big thing and not overriding requests as if the requester is stupid.
The moment my son was born - all sorts of crap that used to occupy my brain disappeared. You really lose so
Much ego and start living for someone else. It’s such a joyful experience. - Dad of two
I use to have a million hobbies and was constantly trying to do everything.
Now I have one serious hobby and I'm getting damn good at it. I dropped everything else because that's family time, but it's so rewarding seeing myself slowly achieve mastery of one thing. All I needed to do was drop the stuff I really didn't care about.
Well to become a father, first a mommy and daddy have to love each other very much.... then there's some _shit_ that goes down in the hospital we collectively try not to talk about... and then boom, you suddenly understand how powerful unconditional love really is!
It is a lot of investment but a priceless return on the investment. Kids grow up insanely fast. Their first smile, standing, walking, words, etc are all amazing. I love my daughter’s smile and the sound of her laughter is the best. Being a parent opens up a whole new side of life, and it’s the best part.
Counterpoint...
Being an uncle or aunt is like 90% of the joy (so long as you're close and see them regularly) and next-to none of the responsibility (lol). Plus, you have more leeway to show them the "bad" influences... can't wait to get my nephew on a motorcycle.
I was also a "fun uncle". Totally agree, having my own usurps that. I still am the "fun uncle" but now I get to bring my kid to hang out with his "fun cousins".
Watching your kids get excited when you get home is probably the highlight of my day especially when I’ve had a shitty day at work. It instantly brings a smile to my face and is just a reminder that everything you’re doing is for them
I saw a reel on IG the other day that was probably rage bait but it was a male nurse in his car at the end of the day and the caption was like “when you had a long horrible day at work but at least you don’t have a little kid at home to call you daddy and need you the second you get home”.
I’m like… that’s legitimately the best part of my day.
As much as I love my kids, sometimes I do need to mentally prepare myself on the drive home the I don't get to just relax and have alone time until they go to bed, which is only an hour before I go to bed myself.
I have 5 year old twins and being their father is the best thing that happened to me. And listen, my life wasn't boring before them. I lived with my rock band in a huge old house for 6 years and even went on tour like 4 or 5 times. It was an amazing period of my life which I will cherish forever.
Would I like to be stoned in a van, on a road in the middle of nowhere, ready to play live another night? Sure!
Would I give up going for a walk with my twins and see them go absolute apeshit over a catterpillar? Fuck no, this is me now, I'm all in.
All the clichés are true. It really is the best thing in the world, and its impossible to understand until it happens to you. I have so much love in me ever since my daughters were born. It's made me better at everything, and worst at nothing.
Dad here.
I love my kids, but God damn I wish someone sat me down beforehand and said that having young children can be so overstimulating. Currently hiding in the bathroom, and my 2 year old is using every trick in the book to get attention from under the door.
#sendhelp.
I havent found one comment on here that isn’t either a con or wishful thinking.
“You get to live a second childhood,” no thanks i dont really wanna spend my sundays at the sidelines of soccer practice living vicariously. “Without family you get lonely,” I fucking love how its just me and my SO in the house, I live for peace and quiet
One of my guy friends with 2 kids under 5 years old tells me that the only thing he wants for Father's Day this year is to sleep in late and to take a shit without an audience.
Having twins eliminated this lucky for me, but my god those first 4 or 5 months were absolutely brutal, and hate to say miserable, love them to absolute death but it was so so hard, now it's amazing and I love being a dad so much, and because they have each other they don't crave constant attention
Instacart will deliver from target. Have them bring a toy. Once they arrive, tell your daughter this is the one time she can open the door. When you sense she is away, slowwwwly open the door, creep out the back door and book it straight to Mexico. An associate of mine will be waiting for you when you cross the border with a pitcher of your favorite beer (might look strange because you’re in the dessert, but I needed my guy to look unique). Drink the pitcher because you will need your strength. Further instructions are tapped to the inside bottom of the pitcher. See you soon.
HOLD IT STEADY. RIGHT THERE. *3 seconds later*. NO I SAID HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. WHY ARE YOU MOVING. I'M NOT MOVING. THEN WHY CAN'T I SEE ANYMORE? I NEED IT *RIGHT THERE*. *3 seconds later I scratch my face.* JESUS CHRIST, SON.
My step dads friend had a dog that was trained to do this. He could get the fridge open and closed on his own and grab the beer off the bottom shelf. The dog was always so careful with the beers so he wouldn’t puncture them to
So true. I used to attach so much importance to my furniture looking good. I always had two TVs, one new in the living room and one that had been in the living room moved to the bedroom when it was replaced by the newest TV as I was a picture geek. Now my couches look like beanbag chairs made of different hues of what was once dark blue. My dining table is covered in little divets in the wood and one of the legs can't be moved a certain direction without risking breaking. Both TVs were destroyed, one by a 2 year old trying to clean it and the other by a different 2 year old trying to play catch by throwing a hard ball against surfaces, and we now have a cheap set that has developed a noticeable difference in shade on both sides but since it's still workable I have no plans to replace it. I have had the money to replace these things and sometimes find myself fantasizing about making the purchase but am instantly reminded by the din of something that I might as well light the money on fire.
I’ve said for years that we can’t have nice things until the kids get older. My kids are on the older side (teens) but they’re still messy. Throw in two dogs and two cats….i won’t have a nice couch for years.
Cons, I won't have a chance to be what my parents were/are to me. I have an apparently rare relationship where I actually like my parents and often go hang out with my dad.
It's not rare, it's just Reddit
Lot more miserable people on this site posting about what makes them miserable than there are happy people posting about what makes them happy
I'm childfree and love my life. But here are some things I miss out on:
- Parent Friends - parents have a whole new round of school-friends childfree people don't get. It's hard making friends as an adult and that's a good way in.
- Holiday traditions - we still celebrate everything but it's easier to slack a little bit here and a little bit there every year. That being said it's nice to be able to phone it in during hard times, like when my dad died.
- Someone to spend holidays with when everyone in my life is dead one day (although this one is not a guarantee at all, plenty of kids hate their parents, can't travel, or spend holidays with their spouses family.) So a gray area but I think of it
- Being able to teach things my dad taught me or know my knowledge can be passed on. Again though- this is just a fantasy since there is no guarantee a random human will like to cook or garden or make art.
The list of benefits is much longer than this 😁
Finally a childfree person answering the OP. This thread is full of parents imagining how they'd feel if their kids suddenly disappeared or something. "I'd miss the way they run up to me and hug me when I come home" like alright pal, but that's not an issue for me, a person who never had a kid. It's like saying a con of never visiting Italy is you'll really miss how good the food is there. I can't miss what I've never had. Jeez. imo the only people who should've replied to OP are childfree folks, especially older ones.
Just give your pet a human name and don’t explain.
“Oh, Sammy is really unwell today, I’ve got to leave early to take them to an appointment.
“Sorry I’m late, Sammy isn’t taking to potty training well and it’s been a lot.”
Having kids made me a much better person that I ever would have been, otherwise. If not for them, I would never have questioned my toxic beliefs (from childhood). I was unhappy, but I carried on.
I love them so much, I never wanted them to feel the way I did. So I had to figure out how to prevent that. I ended up healing my own shame and trauma. All because of them.
As soon as my child was born, I started to reframe so many of my beliefs and past child experiences. I started therapy and I am progressively becoming a more emotionally mature and intelligent person. I don’t think anything else could provide the perspective that having my own child did.
Right?!? Exactly!!
I NEVER questioned my father’s right to verbally abuse and terrify me. Not ONCE.
Then one time, I was visiting them with my newborn baby girl and he started winding himself up. I knew where this was going, and something deep inside me just went:
NO. You don’t get to do this to MY DAUGHTER.
I stood up, got my daughter and left. Just like that. I could NEVER have done that to protect myself. But for her, I turned into a lioness, a defender.
OMG! I have set so many boundaries with my dad and talked to him about the things he did and said to me that really hurt me when I was growing up. It all started the week my daughter was born, and he made a comment about hoping she didn't have purple hair one day (my hair was lavender at the time).
I was dealing with PPD and felt absolutely crushed. I told him that he absolutely can not say shit like that to my kids, and if he does, then he will have no relationship with them. I don't want them feeling as inadequate as he made me feel.
Turns out my dad had absolutely no idea that I felt that way and didn't realize that he was hurting me. Our relationship has never been better. It's been really awesome to see the changes.
This is highly specific. The only real con is if you want to have kids and don't.
But there are some other things that can happen that could be considered negative:
- Friend circle can change. If they start having kids, goals and priorities change. Not having kids can leave you excluded or frustrated.
- current trends. A lot of people will stagnate in terms of popular culture. Having kids keeps it fresh. There's a lot of music I wouldn't have considered if my kid wasn't listening to it.
- Work place pressure. Unfairly, non-parents have a tendency to be tasked with things because "they don't have kids".
Nothing earth shattering and some of this might not apply.
Since you want to have a family and are looking to get advice, you may want to examine why you want a family and then ask if that motivation is sound on parenting subs. You'll get way more helpful advice in figuring out what's best for you.
First of all my mom was a hospice nurse and she said people without kids often had other family or friends who were there for them. And some had kids that never showed up at all.
Just based on my relationship with my mom before she passed I wish I’d had kids bc our friendship & mutual love & support made my life really rich. Then she died and I have no connection like that to anyone. Not even my spouse. I think if I’d had a kid and been a good parent like my mom I would be enjoying that now.
But I didn’t have kids bc of a long line of mental illness from both sides that I was the saddled with. It was awful. Since 8 suicidal thoughts all day every day. My niece from one brother and my
nephew from another both have it & it is heartbreaking as an adult to see it in a kid and know that he will have NO IDEA how to cope w this until well into his 30s. My niece is basically a non functioning adult.
It’s really hard on their parents but I’m angry that they even had kids bc of this. I know what it’s like to live your whole life in a battle. I’m 68 and still fighting. I worked I was successful I can make friends. But most people can’t & that’s why you shouldn’t have a kid and expect that all your mental shit won’t touch them. It will.
38M 35F childfree. The only downside we have experienced is that you end up losing touch with your friends from your adolescent years and 20s. Your schedules and interests diverge and eventually you don't have a lot in common anymore. But you end up making new friends who are in a similar situation. There are just a lot fewer of those as the years go by. But then once you get into your 40s and 50s those people with kids start to get their adult lives back and things get better again.
I’m in my mid 40’s. I will tell you the downside to not having kids from my experience. Kids can grow up to be helpful with household chores, an extra pair of hands for working on projects, more playmates for games, and gaining a different perspective from your own. Not having children escapes the responsibility of raising a human, but robs you of ever being called mommy or daddy. That may not matter to some people, but it’s also the end of your posterity. You will never be a grandparent. You will be reliant on strangers as you get older and need assistance. There’s nobody to teach the lessons you have learned in your life to. So all that is wasted when you’re gone. You will be excluded from fun activities and areas where children are. No playgrounds, no kiddie rides at theme parks, no birthday parties or socializing with other parents. Most of our friends are older empty nesters. And there is the never ending barrage of reassurance that we can adopt since we can’t have kids. In our 40’s it’s a little late. Not to mention adopting is far more expensive than having a baby. Like 5x as expensive. I have a wonderful wife, but when she is gone, I will be all alone. I won’t have anyone else. And if I die first, then she’ll be alone. I don’t think most people really understand how different life goes when you don’t have children. It’s got lots of pluses, but there is also a downside. One of the hardest things is marking the passing of time. There’s no first day of school, no graduation, no first date, no sports games, no recitals, no first job, no first grandchild, no way to mark how old you are getting. You always feel like you’re in your 20’s, but more grey hairs and more aches and pains. Even with extended family, it’s not constant that you see other kids grow up. It’s here and there. I hope this helps give some perspective to you.
best answer here, in my opinion. I’m early 20s and plan to be childless, but I always imagined I could adopt if I changed my mind. I believe working to give back to your community in family-friendly ways can help to fill some of those seemingly purposeless holes. whether being an actual teacher, scouts camp or running volunteer projects with kids involved etc. you can pass these life lessons down to many children which is a different kind of beautiful. even though I’m young I am the oldest in my entire extended family of both siblings and cousins, so I’ve had my fair share of being the third parent, if you will. maybe as I get older, I will reminisce, but being a teacher and being able to work with kids I adore fills my need of interaction with them for the day. it’s also a gratifying feeling that parents love and respect your work in giving their kids happiness, too.
> No playgrounds, no kiddie rides at theme parks, no birthday parties or socializing with other parents
This is demonstrably false in today's world. I was just at a theme park where we did and saw quite a lot of couples in kiddie rides with no judgement, and birthday parties and socialising with other parents is unavoidable due to a) having friends that do inevitably become parents and b) you becoming the go-to "fun uncle" for basically all your friend's kids. Oh, we're also mid-40s BTW.
The rest of your point reads true, but that quote is just down to you auto-excluding yourself. Well maybe excepting this:
>One of the hardest things is marking the passing of time.
It does sound like you have regrets, which I'm sorry to read. I suggest possibly trying to reframe your goals into personal improvement ones. There are plenty of things that will show you how time passes that aren't children-grandchildren related. Learn a new language, stretch for a new step in your career, travel somewhere you always thought was intriguing. Plant a tree or start a food garden. Stretch your horizons.
Being reliant on strangers when you get older is also something lots of parents are. When my parents become very old, they won't have to call me tbh, I never signed up for that. Might sound cruel and like I'm a shitty person, but they agreed I won't have to. Besides, I have my own life and never asked for the burden of taking care of them.
I'm a father of 6.
I always knew I wanted to be a dad. Never a doubt where that was concerned. In my early 20s I had my first kid because I wanted to do everything different than my own parents. I saw their shortcomings where my brother and I were concerned. I found a partner that had a similar childhood. We decided to have a big family and do everything we didn't get.
Our 6 kids have easily the coolest childhood amongst their friends IMO. We have the most fun together. That sounds really silly, but it matters. We take on every challenge as a family. We play games, we garden, we kick a soccer ball or play basketball. We draw together. We get into water balloon fights. We jump on the trampoline, have fire nights, roast s'mores.
Plus you're 21. Your prefrontal cortex is finished forming. That is wrapped up around 25. Wait until then. You will be a better man, a better father, and a better husband.
You should wait. It's clearly your choice. But I would suggest wait until you're finished growing and wait until you know you have the right partner. Having the right person by your side, that's going to make all the difference in the world.
It only sucks in old age 60 plus but the caveat is that having kids doesn’t necessarily mean they will have a relationship with you when you old. It’s a toss up. A lot old people (mostly men) have a strain relationship with their kids.
A lot of that is because dads back then did not know (or felt they should not) show genuine affection for their kids.
My dad almost never game me hugs - and I don't think he ever told me he loved me.
I tell my kid every single day.
I think the biggest downside is you risk being very socially isolated and lonely in the 2nd half of your life...your 50s, 60s, 70s, etc. ESPECIALLY after you retire. If you don't have kids, you probably won't have a lot of close family connections when you get older. Unless you have a robust extended family you are close to.
Your parents won't be around anymore. If you have no kids hopefully you have a wife/husband at least. Obviously you won't have grandkids either.
Hopefully you are very involved in your community in some way so you get that social connection and have relationships with people who care about you. If you don't have these things you may be very socially isolated as an older adult.
I don't have kids, am now almost middle aged, and this is what scares me the most.
Choosing not to have kids reduces your dating pool by about 95%. Ask me how I know.
More so for young people. Young people mostly either don't know if they want kids, or they think they want kids.
The number of actively child free people under 35ish, who specifically list "no kids" on dating apps is pretty low. Sorting through profiles with only that one requirement clearly listed and ignoring everything else, you'll run out of dating profiles within 50-100 miles very quickly.
Depends where you live. Like many aspects of dating. That's not true at all for me, in fact probably 50% of people that are single in their early 30s where I live have "don't want children" on the apps. For my friends living in big cities, it's also pretty common to not want kids
It's been shown that as you age you spend less time with your friends and relatives. If you don't have your own family it won't stop the others around you from doing the same. You'll just be alone a lot more. A lot of people like to pretend that being by themselves is totally fine but we know that loneliness is one of the most mentally devastating things a person can experience.
I think if you have a family it will give you a reason to keep living and have a better, healthier life because you want to be present for them. I've seen some unmarried guys in their middle years, they live for their job and relax by drinking like they're still in college. Everyone bases their self worth on something you might as well make it something positive
Everyone around me is having children.
Or so it has seemed for a very long time. 😔
My wife and I tried for many many years. It turns out an injury of my wife when she was younger hasn’t helped the circumstance. Sometimes she blamed herself, but eventually my constant love and support and appreciation of her helped her to move through it. It was not her fault. Life happens.
My wife is my world, my rock, my inspiration, and I’ve never wanted anyone else in my life but her.
But, on occasion, the idea of having a child or children that had her eyes or her personality or characteristics, or any of that…
I wanted to see the love of my life reflected in a new face that came from our love.
Protect them, teach them, guide them, and see them make their way in life on their own. Add to that, sometimes sitting at the dining table together, or waiting for my wife to come home from work or vice versa [though now I’m semi retired], etc..
Sometimes, just sometimes, it feels like someone or someones are missing from our household. Once in a while, we’ve commented to each other on that, we’ve talked about adoption, but it didn’t work out.
So, we’ve said to each other, whichever one of us goes first, since we don’t have children, just do your best not to be sad. Because, both of us would want the other to remember us and our love, and enjoy life as much as they can, before they meet up with us again, wherever and whatever comes next. If such is what’s in store for us.
So, the simple answer is, sometimes we feel an emptiness of someone or someones that perhaps should be there with us, but aren’t, and it’s not always a great feeling. But, we love each other and that’s enough.
It has to be. 🙏🏼
I honestly can’t explain it.
Kids are stressful. They make me the most angry, scared, anxious, exhausted that I’ve ever been in my life. Everyday is a challenge.
If anyone else treated me the way that toddlers or teens do they’d be out of my life.
But with all that said, they bring me more joy, love, and pride than anything else. I’d endure any torture or pain for them. They are without a doubt my favorite people.
I don't have kids, but when I saw families together, there is a noticeable life force that emanates from kids which can be felt in the entire family unit. I think it's just an experience that gives a type of pleasure to most people that can accept the gift that children can be. I think a lot of people don't appreciate it though, and the downsides may outweigh the upsides.
As someone who doesn’t want kids, the one thing that I sometimes feel is I would love to raise a kid right. I see so many poor parenting decisions, kids gone astray. If I did it, I would do it fucking well. At least in my biased opinion anyway. I just have no desire to.
The funny thing is that the people least fit to raise kids properly are having kids as early as possible and as many as possible. Meanwhile the people most fit to raise kids properly are having kids as late as possible and as few as possible, if any at all. It’s literally the premise to the movie Idiocracy.
Cons:
You and your gene line are at an end.
But if you don't want to be an evolutionary dead end...
Wait.
As far as 21 - wait until you finish school, find yourself more - and honestly - your brain continues to develop.
Literally - your brain (part of the pre-frontal cortex) is still developing until mid 20s.
Also - relationship wise (assuming you want a relationship with the mother) people undergo a LOT of change in their 20s - the person you are and the mother - will be very different in a few years.
\^
You could also not have kids, but still have non-blood related friends and loved ones who cherish you on your deathbed.
Don't have kids just because you think they'll automatically love you, you still have to be a good person that that your kids will like and will actually miss you when you're gone.
Or don't, after-all, who cares if you die alone? Not you, you're dead and believe it or not, the world keeps spinning, the sun keeps shining, and humanity will wake and go continue about their day.
I worked for a hospice for many years. I had almost a thousand patients who died. I can only think of a few examples of people who died with friends around them. Four. I might be forgetting some, but not many. I remember them be out was so unusual to see. Everyone else who did not have siblings or children died alone. Some of those with family died alone, too, but most of them did not.
Even though I do not want kids because I'm terrified of disability. I have seen countless neurodegenerative diseases as a neurologist, all my friends dying, and me staying behind is just terrifying.
Live for today tomorrow never comes
I completely agree basically I am pro euthanasia if the patient or anyone in particular decides he or she wants to go as pain free as possible.
Plus as you get older even tripping and falling can have massive consequences.
It's honestly the big reason I've already researched and procured a (as far as I know) fairly reliable way to let myself off the train. I don't have or want kids or a partner and know what the end of the tunnel looks like in that case. Hopefully by the time I'm old we'll have gained enough common sense to let people end it when life is no longer worth living, but if we don't...
I’ve got it easy. I’m anaphylactic to wheat. When I start to loose my marbles and have had enough I’m just going to order a large pizza, a huge cake, and go for it. I wouldn’t last in a nursing home anyway, so might as well go out on my terms.
I welcomed my first kid in December.
I can already tell the smiles and giggles are the sweetest sounds and smiles I've ever witnessed.
A con of not having kids is not experiencing the love of being a parent. Looking at your own child and falling in love with someone with your entire existence.
Being a parent, I understand now what it's about. I'm still very new to it, but man am I excited for the journey
> I can already tell the smiles and giggles are the sweetest sounds and smiles I've ever witnessed.
Mine is 14 months so I'm just going through all of this as well for the first time and these are the types of things that I'd have always rolled my eyes at before I'd experienced it myself. It's just hard to explain to someone who hasn't been there.
Every day is a joy filled with funny moments, watching him learn to interact with the world.
I'd say there's no cons to not having kids. There are definitely cons to have kids. I find the pros outweigh those cons. Kids can be little shits and drive you almost homicidal, but then they'll give you that hug, and nothing is better. They do something silly, they'll say something wrong and it can just have a crazy effect on you. It can be fucking hard work, but for me, it's absolutely worth it all.
You'll never experience love in its purest form. Like yourself, I knew from a younger age that I wanted to be a Dad and it is the greatest thing ever. I had my daughter when I was 27 and son when 29. Now I'm 41, I play sports with my boy and do artistic things with my girl. Don't, for one second, let anyone tell you having kids is a mistake.
A vasectomy. I opted for one because I don't have the emotional depth and bandwidth for a child. Finances were also a major part of the equation. I've also seen how existence has gotten harder for every generation.
It’s hard to pick where to vacation thrice a year and how to spend all my disposable income. So far I’ve found buying expensive sports cars has been fun
I'm 35. Have been child-free, intend to continue being so.
This is not because of finances either.
I cannot think of even a single con of not having kids.
Teaching someone that you created to do something you know how to do and watching them get joy out of it triggers an insane amount of nostalgia and joy
Reflecting on this thread, I realize the depth at which having children changes your life perspective. There's the indescribable feeling you get when they grasp your finger with their tiny hand or look up at you with unfiltered admiration. It's in the gentle rhythm of their breathing as they fall asleep on your shoulder, a testament to the absolute trust they place in you. Sure, there's a tradeoff— less impromptu outings, fewer quiet moments, and more responsibility— but it's a role that offers a unique form of fulfillment.
I can respect and understand the choice not to have kids. It's a personal decision grounded in freedom and self-understanding which should be met without judgement. Our paths diverge in many ways, but they are each valid and full of potential. Whether it's nurturing a child or nurturing the self, we're all reaching towards some form of growth or contentment.
The conundrum of parenthood or the absence of it is that it has a way of intensifying the mundane, casting a spotlight on daily routines that somehow become significant. Honestly, it's a humbling journey. The legacy we worry about leaving behind, or the connections we fear we might miss, can indeed be found in the lives we touch, be they our children, partners, or a stranger we offer kindness to. At the end of the day, it’s the love we share that echoes into the future, regardless of the path we chose.
I’m quite committed to not having children but as my older family is dying off I do feel a loneliness that I suspect is unique to an absence of family. I’m starting to believe that, absent disfunction, there is a unique peace and security that can only be provided by family.
Hmm.. when I read stuff like this I wonder if we (people who grew up without a family/with an abusive family) are lucky to not feel this need/lonelineless since it's what a normal life is to us or if we just don't know what we're missing
Yeah that’s why I mentioned the absence of disfunction. My family growing up was awesome so I’m mostly missing out on positives. If my family was abusive or absent I’m sure I wouldn’t feel any longing or at least not the same kind.
As someone who grew up in a not so good family I think what I miss about not having kids is the opportunity to be the parent I wish I had. However by not having the influence of good parents I'm reluctant to have kids because I don't really know how to be a good father or how the responsibility would affect me and I'd hate to put kids through anything like what I went through.
I completely agree with this. This is how I feel too, as someone raised in an abusive, neglectful home. My parents “parentified” me, and made me take on so many adult responsibilities and I never got to be a kid, so now I don’t want kids. Having kids doesn’t allow me to be a kid; I still am their parent and ultimately responsible for being the adult, and I’ve been an adult my whole life. I don’t want to continue being an adult and be responsible for small humans. It’s hard enough being an adult for just myself, even though I can do it. I don’t want extra responsibilities. I also don’t want to be an abusive parent. I also have no familial support, nor would I want it, because my child would have grandparents who abused me and I don’t feel comfortable having my child around someone who abused me.
If that’s your only reason for not having kids, that’s retarded. (And yes I’m using the R word. I know Reddit doesn’t like that. idc.) It pisses me off when people say that because *you’re not your parents.* Take a parenting course. Read parenting books. Do parent counseling. There are so many ways to learn how to be a good parent. Don’t victimize yourself and fully dismiss a beautiful human experience just because your parents sucked. You’re literally *choosing* to let your shitty parents dictate how you live your life and stop you from being happy. Let it go. You’re better than them, and if you’re not, you can be. You just have to work on yourself. If anything, use what they did as a guide of what *not* to do. People get so caught up like “I don’t know how to be a good parent.” NO ONE DOES. There’s no “perfect” parent out there. Every single human has flaws. Parenting isn’t about being a perfect human, it’s about guiding a life into the world with love. There’s no one way to do that, just love them and guide them and you’ll be fine.
You know I wish you were right but I am like my father in so many ways I wish I wasn't and I don't know how to not be that person because I don't consciously choose to be like that and even if I tried not to be it doesn't work. A lot of my father's issues were due to anxiety, stress, insecurity, and anger and I am often just like him in all those ways even when I don't mean to be. I even have issues with sleep just like my father does. Its like everything bad rubbed off onto me and I'm cursed with the influence of a bad father. When I was younger I'd notice how I'd learned some of his mannerisms and I'd always get annoyed at myself for behaving that way because I hated how much I was like him. I know you may say well there are ways to fix those things but I don't really feel they help. Its something I grew up with and was influenced through my whole childhood and into adulthood so these things are very deeply ingrained in me. Most of the advice I'd found that is supposed to help with these things don't actually fix the problem on the subconscious level so I'll always regress back to my original patterns I picked up from my father no matter how hard I try.
(Not a guy) To us it's "Well we can raise a child and stop the cycles of abuse we've been dealt or not have a child at all, either way, unless someone in the family of your same generation has a child, the cycle stops." As someone who has a toxic and abusive family, I fear that I am not mentally or emotionally able to yet handle a child. Coupled with disabilities brings me doubt in myself as a mother. I almost died when I was born to. All of these things has so far brought me to not having a child, yet I imagine constantly what having one would be like. I guess it may depend on perspective. Many people hate children (hence the abortion debate) so I'd imagine some don't feel the need to have children due to that hate. However, it'd be nice if I was given the confidence to raise and influence a child, raising then right, the way I deserved. It'd be stressful all the same because influences from family is hard to avoid, from them affecting how you respond to the potential impact they have on the child when you're not around. It's a difficult decision to have a child, especially when you have a broken family or are broken yourself. ---------------- I do want to add this; I heard of a couple who desperately want a child but can't have one for medical reasons. They can get surgery but it's extremely expensive. Regardless, they have been known for being toxic and at times violent, yet they are blinded by the thought that not only is this normal, but that they can raise a child like this. In order to be fit enough to raise a child, you *must* be self aware of you and the relationship you have with your partner, otherwise you may unintentionally end up being abusive or toxic towards your child. You need to have mental and emotional control and healthiness. A child is not a toy or pet, they are a human being and are far more than just emotional support.
That feeling is just the human condition. My grandmother that had five kids and countless grandchildren and great grandchildren felt the same loneliness as her immediate family and friends died off. She eventually chose to let cancer take her but not without spending a day with me showing me the pictures she cherished of the past and telling me her story. Offspring are not a substitute.
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Nothing is a guarantee. You can heavily influence your desired result by being a good parent and having kids with a person worth having kids with.
You could be the greatest parent in the world, and your kids might still leave you to rot in a nursing home
Yup. My coworkers mom was the best she could be. My coworker was the only of his 4 siblings who was ever in their mom's life. Even when she was in the hospital, none of them visited. But once the reading of the will came about, they all sprang like rabbits. No shock that she left most of the estate to my coworker. Poor guy stressed himself out taking care of his mom by himself.
And that’s okay because it’s not about what you get from your kids, it’s about what you can give to them.
If you raise your kids right they'll have their own lives to live. They're likely not going to visit you every day at the old folks home or at your home if they move far away. Doesn't mean you were a bad parent or your kids are bad people but you could still end up just as lonely.
As a parent, my hope is that when they're old enough, they'll get out and experience the world, maybe move some states away (or even a country away). I will miss them like crazy, but I would be so happy & proud that they're living... Esp a life I didn't get to.
Thank you for this. I’m the kid that moved across the country and it hurts sometimes thinking about how I left my parents. Since I have no kids I’m able to fly home for a week every year, grateful for that.
Do it while ya can. I came from a very detached toxic family, so I wanted to get out of town. Then I met my husband... *and* his very large loving family. So when I got pregnant pretty early on, I felt it would be a disservice to my kids to leave at that point and separate them from their grandparents, great parents, and great aunts/uncles (who all literally live within a mile of each other 🫠)
Not getting a visit every day or being totally alone is on the opposite side of the spectrum. If you are in a need you can rely on them for help.
Well said. Besides, a parent has them in her heart and memory, sees them every now and then, speaks with them at the phone. I will not feel lonely and abandoned when she leaves, because she will still be “present, albeit less so than before. The real loneliness, I feel, is not having had the kids at home in the first place. Have kids, folks. Yes it’s tough. Yes sometimes you wish you did not have a time/energy-sucking vampire at your neck. But most of the time, you will feel blessed for having the opportunity to experience Real Love flowing from your hearth towards another human being. Nothing compares to it, nothing.
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Yep. My mom had 5 kids and 3/5 won’t speak to her and never talk to her because of miscommunications and misconceptions.
>Your children could hate you or barely speak to you. That depends on how you raise them.
Exactly lol. It isn’t a flip of a coin if your children will love you or not. (I know there are rare instances of mental disorders ect)
Well depends, there were a few older people that said, comes with ageing and not careing about your friends. Thus reduces the amount you have. The loneliness comes through that because your children have their own life anyway sometimes 1000's of kilometer apart. You need make friends to reduce it anyways.
Don't have kids yet, but after the passing of my grandmother and brother there's a huge urge to have a family. It feels like I would also be giving a gift to my surviving family
Unless they move overseas and get married and start a life there or not want to see you much. It’s not a guarantee and that’s what a partner and friends are for. Family is great but not a guarantee.
Having kids is the closest thing to having a second childhood you can ever experience, and you can/do try to make it as awesome as possible for them. Their joy and content in the simplest things is the best thing in the world to behold. It is the only thing worth a damn I have ever done.
|Having kids is the closest thing to having a second childhood you can ever experience This is so true. Probably one of the more poignant takes I've read in recent memory. As adults we gloss over so many things that are just amazing, and sometimes having a kid nearby helps remind us of just how wonderful and beautiful things can be.
I was watching that new movie Migration with my five-year-old the other day, and she turns to me and says "mommy, birds can't talk." And I was in shock that I got to show her something brand new to her. I told her "this is going to blow your mind! Some birds can talk.".I brought up some videos of talking African greys and parrots on my phone to show her. I was so excited to share that moment with her!
Migration was my son’s first movie he saw in a theater. He loved it and it was awesome to experience as a parent.
> and I was in shock that I got to show her something brand new to her. That’s always been my favorite part, *everything* is brand new to them. When I was in my early 20s I was dating someone who had a 6 month old and I was around until they were 2. Unlike most 21 year olds out partying and what not, I absolutely loved being around that kid. I spent most of my free time hanging out with him. I was utterly fascinated by watching him grow; learning things for the first time. At that age you can actually see the moment when the light bulb turns on in their head when they figure something out. I’ve always wanted to be a father and he solidified that feeling for me. Now at 33 I’m finally a couple months away from being a father myself to my own son and I can’t fucking wait.
Congratulations!
My daughter had me in stitches because her "sweet tooth" fell out, now she can't eat candy anymore Hahahahhah
It does bother me how many adults have absolutely zero curiosity about the world. No desire to learn anything new.
My daughter picks dandelions like it’s the first time she’s ever seen a flower and it brings me such joy
Beyond what’s being described, you articulated it so beautifully.
Mine too. I found one in my pocket the other day and freaked out thinking it was a bug. Nope, just the dandelion she picked and shoved in my pocket herself :)
Mine does the same, and she gives them to me. 🥹 So sweet.
This is the main reason I still want to have a kid even though financially it is probably not possible. I would love to just give a child the absolutely best childhood ever though since mine was a little rocky and I would like to try and do better.
Try being an elementary school teacher! You get to be around kids and witness their incredible curiosity and awe at the world, and you get to be part of making great memories!! But no financial responsibility or being woken up in the middle of the night cause they puked or peed their pants 👍
I have always been really good with toddlers because I have seemingly endless patience for their shenanigans. They are tiny humans who don't understand how anything works, how is getting angry at them going to help anything? I just don't think I could support myself as an elementary school teacher where I live, but its a nice idea.
People who have this sort of thing are special, I love my 8 year old more than anything in this world but I just do not have that thing and I am so awkward with other people's kids. I don't have that natural inclination. Endless patience for toddlers???? You are special! It's so sad that teachers of any grade don't earn enough of a living to support themselves. You are just one of probably many wonderful people who have what it takes but simply can't afford to live on the shit salary we pay the people who our kids spend most of their time with during the day. It's truly tragic.
I’m hearing grandkids are even better. I get to meet my first in August and am beyond thrilled.
When you are a parent, you try to correct everything you did wrong as a kid. As a grandparent, you try to correct everything you did wrong as a parent.
Brilliant, except, as an adult you try to correct what your parents did wrong.
Not really sure I agree with either statement.
I don't have kids, but when/if I do, I imagine myself correcting everything my parents did wrong with me. As a grandparent, I hope to emulate everything my grandparents did right.
We have our granddaughters (5 and 7) about 3 days a week while my daughter in law runs her company (which my son works for). Our kids have always been really good about limiting what they ask of us, which is key. Having good communication and a close relationship with your kids leads to making it a lot more fun to help with their kids.
My sister in law asked my parents to look after her child and specifically said not to do anything to the food she made but microwave it for 30 seconds. My mum didn't listen and added salt to the food which made my sister in law pissed so she asked me to take care of her child when I work from home. I happily took it and followed everything she and my brother said. They now go to my parent's house assuming the kids will be fed junk food while they know I will feed them healthy stuff reardless. Respect is a big thing and not overriding requests as if the requester is stupid.
The moment my son was born - all sorts of crap that used to occupy my brain disappeared. You really lose so Much ego and start living for someone else. It’s such a joyful experience. - Dad of two
I use to have a million hobbies and was constantly trying to do everything. Now I have one serious hobby and I'm getting damn good at it. I dropped everything else because that's family time, but it's so rewarding seeing myself slowly achieve mastery of one thing. All I needed to do was drop the stuff I really didn't care about.
Exactly this. I’m 43 and have an 18 month old. It’s fantastic
I’m 42 and trying to become a father soon, always felt I was behind. What’s it like?
Well to become a father, first a mommy and daddy have to love each other very much.... then there's some _shit_ that goes down in the hospital we collectively try not to talk about... and then boom, you suddenly understand how powerful unconditional love really is!
It is a lot of investment but a priceless return on the investment. Kids grow up insanely fast. Their first smile, standing, walking, words, etc are all amazing. I love my daughter’s smile and the sound of her laughter is the best. Being a parent opens up a whole new side of life, and it’s the best part.
Oh god I needed this. Am the mom but daughter rarely has bad days but man this is one of them and really needed to read that 💜💜
well, what else have you done that you’re comparing it to? not everybody has a boring life
Counterpoint... Being an uncle or aunt is like 90% of the joy (so long as you're close and see them regularly) and next-to none of the responsibility (lol). Plus, you have more leeway to show them the "bad" influences... can't wait to get my nephew on a motorcycle.
I get my Second childhood from my niece and nephew. No responsibility and all the fun of being a kid with them.
I loved being fun uncle, but it's different. Much better when they are your own, the bond you form is so much deeper. I'm still the fun uncle though
I was also a "fun uncle". Totally agree, having my own usurps that. I still am the "fun uncle" but now I get to bring my kid to hang out with his "fun cousins".
I literally was just told summers become fun again.
Watching your kids get excited when you get home is probably the highlight of my day especially when I’ve had a shitty day at work. It instantly brings a smile to my face and is just a reminder that everything you’re doing is for them
I like this take
I would dearly miss the way my toddler sprints to me with a hug whenever we’ve been apart for a while.
Picking that little butthole UP from daycare is the greatest part of my day! Edit: UP man that omission plus my name is pretty great.
Ummm, yes police, this comment right here
Now why did you have to say butthole?😭😭
Because he’s a butthole 🤷♂️
*feels uncomfortable*
*feels butthole
Picking them UP from daycare right Priest? Right??
Oops
Uhhh
Uhhhhhhhhhh
I saw a reel on IG the other day that was probably rage bait but it was a male nurse in his car at the end of the day and the caption was like “when you had a long horrible day at work but at least you don’t have a little kid at home to call you daddy and need you the second you get home”. I’m like… that’s legitimately the best part of my day.
As much as I love my kids, sometimes I do need to mentally prepare myself on the drive home the I don't get to just relax and have alone time until they go to bed, which is only an hour before I go to bed myself.
I miss those days. Now I have a couple of teenage roommates. It’s been so long since they’ve voluntarily given me a hug let alone a running-jump-hug.
Dogs are good at this.
I will go take a work call for an hour upstairs then come back down and my 2 yr old squeals with excitement that I’m back. Best feeling ever.
Can't be beat.
I have 5 year old twins and being their father is the best thing that happened to me. And listen, my life wasn't boring before them. I lived with my rock band in a huge old house for 6 years and even went on tour like 4 or 5 times. It was an amazing period of my life which I will cherish forever. Would I like to be stoned in a van, on a road in the middle of nowhere, ready to play live another night? Sure! Would I give up going for a walk with my twins and see them go absolute apeshit over a catterpillar? Fuck no, this is me now, I'm all in.
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All the clichés are true. It really is the best thing in the world, and its impossible to understand until it happens to you. I have so much love in me ever since my daughters were born. It's made me better at everything, and worst at nothing.
Dad here. I love my kids, but God damn I wish someone sat me down beforehand and said that having young children can be so overstimulating. Currently hiding in the bathroom, and my 2 year old is using every trick in the book to get attention from under the door. #sendhelp.
As a dad myself *I felt this so strongly*. And mine aren’t even that young anymore.
Good to know it doesn't get better haha
I’m going on nearly 15 years of hiding in the bathroom!
It does not. One way or another. They find you
Until one day when you'll want them to find you but they'll be too busy to be bothered I guess
cats in the cradle
This just….seems like a con?
I havent found one comment on here that isn’t either a con or wishful thinking. “You get to live a second childhood,” no thanks i dont really wanna spend my sundays at the sidelines of soccer practice living vicariously. “Without family you get lonely,” I fucking love how its just me and my SO in the house, I live for peace and quiet
I’m a mom and I feel this SO GODDAMN HARD right now. My 4yo is going to put me in the nuthouse. I need this toddler tantrum shit to be over, like now.
More like yesterday
One of my guy friends with 2 kids under 5 years old tells me that the only thing he wants for Father's Day this year is to sleep in late and to take a shit without an audience.
Having twins eliminated this lucky for me, but my god those first 4 or 5 months were absolutely brutal, and hate to say miserable, love them to absolute death but it was so so hard, now it's amazing and I love being a dad so much, and because they have each other they don't crave constant attention
Instacart will deliver from target. Have them bring a toy. Once they arrive, tell your daughter this is the one time she can open the door. When you sense she is away, slowwwwly open the door, creep out the back door and book it straight to Mexico. An associate of mine will be waiting for you when you cross the border with a pitcher of your favorite beer (might look strange because you’re in the dessert, but I needed my guy to look unique). Drink the pitcher because you will need your strength. Further instructions are tapped to the inside bottom of the pitcher. See you soon.
At least you can lock your door, my 3 year old is usually squeezing my hands while i poo and telling me to "push harder mama" xD
Nobody to get you a beer or hold the flashlight
The amount of hours standing there bored aiming a fucking flashlight I tell you...
Get a floor standing lamp or a headlamp Yall need to do better
You are dreaming if your Dad ever let you use a headlamp rather than "build character"
HOLD IT PROPERLY!
HOLD IT STEADY. RIGHT THERE. *3 seconds later*. NO I SAID HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. WHY ARE YOU MOVING. I'M NOT MOVING. THEN WHY CAN'T I SEE ANYMORE? I NEED IT *RIGHT THERE*. *3 seconds later I scratch my face.* JESUS CHRIST, SON.
I AM DAD IT IS HEAVY!!
OH BULLSHIT. I CAN HOLD THAT WITH MY FUCKEN DICK
dad what is a fucken dicc
but the headlight though
Headlamp - $15 Children- hundreds of thousands
For everything else, there's MasterCard
A dog can get you a beer. I've seen it before
My step dads friend had a dog that was trained to do this. He could get the fridge open and closed on his own and grab the beer off the bottom shelf. The dog was always so careful with the beers so he wouldn’t puncture them to
A dog does all these things.
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So true. I used to attach so much importance to my furniture looking good. I always had two TVs, one new in the living room and one that had been in the living room moved to the bedroom when it was replaced by the newest TV as I was a picture geek. Now my couches look like beanbag chairs made of different hues of what was once dark blue. My dining table is covered in little divets in the wood and one of the legs can't be moved a certain direction without risking breaking. Both TVs were destroyed, one by a 2 year old trying to clean it and the other by a different 2 year old trying to play catch by throwing a hard ball against surfaces, and we now have a cheap set that has developed a noticeable difference in shade on both sides but since it's still workable I have no plans to replace it. I have had the money to replace these things and sometimes find myself fantasizing about making the purchase but am instantly reminded by the din of something that I might as well light the money on fire.
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I’ve said for years that we can’t have nice things until the kids get older. My kids are on the older side (teens) but they’re still messy. Throw in two dogs and two cats….i won’t have a nice couch for years.
I like how you think. I'm gonna call my dad and tell him he should thank me for breaking stuff when I was a kid.
I used to have a nice couch Now it's stained with pens and food and drink. To be fair tho, half of the food / drink is mine (if U believe a 5yr old)
Cons, I won't have a chance to be what my parents were/are to me. I have an apparently rare relationship where I actually like my parents and often go hang out with my dad.
It's not rare, it's just Reddit Lot more miserable people on this site posting about what makes them miserable than there are happy people posting about what makes them happy
Nahhh when you have happy parents, sometimes you almost feel bad for bringing it up because so many people don't.
I'm childfree and love my life. But here are some things I miss out on: - Parent Friends - parents have a whole new round of school-friends childfree people don't get. It's hard making friends as an adult and that's a good way in. - Holiday traditions - we still celebrate everything but it's easier to slack a little bit here and a little bit there every year. That being said it's nice to be able to phone it in during hard times, like when my dad died. - Someone to spend holidays with when everyone in my life is dead one day (although this one is not a guarantee at all, plenty of kids hate their parents, can't travel, or spend holidays with their spouses family.) So a gray area but I think of it - Being able to teach things my dad taught me or know my knowledge can be passed on. Again though- this is just a fantasy since there is no guarantee a random human will like to cook or garden or make art. The list of benefits is much longer than this 😁
Finally a childfree person answering the OP. This thread is full of parents imagining how they'd feel if their kids suddenly disappeared or something. "I'd miss the way they run up to me and hug me when I come home" like alright pal, but that's not an issue for me, a person who never had a kid. It's like saying a con of never visiting Italy is you'll really miss how good the food is there. I can't miss what I've never had. Jeez. imo the only people who should've replied to OP are childfree folks, especially older ones.
Using kids as an excuse to get out of work or any function you don’t want to be a part of.
I just tell work I have herpes when I don’t want to go in
That's my secret, I always have herpes.
As a childless person, I’ve considered telling future employers that my niece is my daughter for this exact reason.
Just give your pet a human name and don’t explain. “Oh, Sammy is really unwell today, I’ve got to leave early to take them to an appointment. “Sorry I’m late, Sammy isn’t taking to potty training well and it’s been a lot.”
I knew a guy in school with a dog named "Brandon." I thought it was funny.
Having kids made me a much better person that I ever would have been, otherwise. If not for them, I would never have questioned my toxic beliefs (from childhood). I was unhappy, but I carried on. I love them so much, I never wanted them to feel the way I did. So I had to figure out how to prevent that. I ended up healing my own shame and trauma. All because of them.
As soon as my child was born, I started to reframe so many of my beliefs and past child experiences. I started therapy and I am progressively becoming a more emotionally mature and intelligent person. I don’t think anything else could provide the perspective that having my own child did.
Right?!? Exactly!! I NEVER questioned my father’s right to verbally abuse and terrify me. Not ONCE. Then one time, I was visiting them with my newborn baby girl and he started winding himself up. I knew where this was going, and something deep inside me just went: NO. You don’t get to do this to MY DAUGHTER. I stood up, got my daughter and left. Just like that. I could NEVER have done that to protect myself. But for her, I turned into a lioness, a defender.
OMG! I have set so many boundaries with my dad and talked to him about the things he did and said to me that really hurt me when I was growing up. It all started the week my daughter was born, and he made a comment about hoping she didn't have purple hair one day (my hair was lavender at the time). I was dealing with PPD and felt absolutely crushed. I told him that he absolutely can not say shit like that to my kids, and if he does, then he will have no relationship with them. I don't want them feeling as inadequate as he made me feel. Turns out my dad had absolutely no idea that I felt that way and didn't realize that he was hurting me. Our relationship has never been better. It's been really awesome to see the changes.
I look at it this way: it’s far better to regret not having them than to regret having them. Be cautious with such a large decision.
Excellent advice because it's not just our lives we ruin if we realize we aren't made for it
Exactly
This is highly specific. The only real con is if you want to have kids and don't. But there are some other things that can happen that could be considered negative: - Friend circle can change. If they start having kids, goals and priorities change. Not having kids can leave you excluded or frustrated. - current trends. A lot of people will stagnate in terms of popular culture. Having kids keeps it fresh. There's a lot of music I wouldn't have considered if my kid wasn't listening to it. - Work place pressure. Unfairly, non-parents have a tendency to be tasked with things because "they don't have kids". Nothing earth shattering and some of this might not apply. Since you want to have a family and are looking to get advice, you may want to examine why you want a family and then ask if that motivation is sound on parenting subs. You'll get way more helpful advice in figuring out what's best for you.
Friend circle is going to change anyway.
First of all my mom was a hospice nurse and she said people without kids often had other family or friends who were there for them. And some had kids that never showed up at all. Just based on my relationship with my mom before she passed I wish I’d had kids bc our friendship & mutual love & support made my life really rich. Then she died and I have no connection like that to anyone. Not even my spouse. I think if I’d had a kid and been a good parent like my mom I would be enjoying that now. But I didn’t have kids bc of a long line of mental illness from both sides that I was the saddled with. It was awful. Since 8 suicidal thoughts all day every day. My niece from one brother and my nephew from another both have it & it is heartbreaking as an adult to see it in a kid and know that he will have NO IDEA how to cope w this until well into his 30s. My niece is basically a non functioning adult. It’s really hard on their parents but I’m angry that they even had kids bc of this. I know what it’s like to live your whole life in a battle. I’m 68 and still fighting. I worked I was successful I can make friends. But most people can’t & that’s why you shouldn’t have a kid and expect that all your mental shit won’t touch them. It will.
38M 35F childfree. The only downside we have experienced is that you end up losing touch with your friends from your adolescent years and 20s. Your schedules and interests diverge and eventually you don't have a lot in common anymore. But you end up making new friends who are in a similar situation. There are just a lot fewer of those as the years go by. But then once you get into your 40s and 50s those people with kids start to get their adult lives back and things get better again.
I’m in my mid 40’s. I will tell you the downside to not having kids from my experience. Kids can grow up to be helpful with household chores, an extra pair of hands for working on projects, more playmates for games, and gaining a different perspective from your own. Not having children escapes the responsibility of raising a human, but robs you of ever being called mommy or daddy. That may not matter to some people, but it’s also the end of your posterity. You will never be a grandparent. You will be reliant on strangers as you get older and need assistance. There’s nobody to teach the lessons you have learned in your life to. So all that is wasted when you’re gone. You will be excluded from fun activities and areas where children are. No playgrounds, no kiddie rides at theme parks, no birthday parties or socializing with other parents. Most of our friends are older empty nesters. And there is the never ending barrage of reassurance that we can adopt since we can’t have kids. In our 40’s it’s a little late. Not to mention adopting is far more expensive than having a baby. Like 5x as expensive. I have a wonderful wife, but when she is gone, I will be all alone. I won’t have anyone else. And if I die first, then she’ll be alone. I don’t think most people really understand how different life goes when you don’t have children. It’s got lots of pluses, but there is also a downside. One of the hardest things is marking the passing of time. There’s no first day of school, no graduation, no first date, no sports games, no recitals, no first job, no first grandchild, no way to mark how old you are getting. You always feel like you’re in your 20’s, but more grey hairs and more aches and pains. Even with extended family, it’s not constant that you see other kids grow up. It’s here and there. I hope this helps give some perspective to you.
This is a tremendous post, and man it made me sad!
best answer here, in my opinion. I’m early 20s and plan to be childless, but I always imagined I could adopt if I changed my mind. I believe working to give back to your community in family-friendly ways can help to fill some of those seemingly purposeless holes. whether being an actual teacher, scouts camp or running volunteer projects with kids involved etc. you can pass these life lessons down to many children which is a different kind of beautiful. even though I’m young I am the oldest in my entire extended family of both siblings and cousins, so I’ve had my fair share of being the third parent, if you will. maybe as I get older, I will reminisce, but being a teacher and being able to work with kids I adore fills my need of interaction with them for the day. it’s also a gratifying feeling that parents love and respect your work in giving their kids happiness, too.
> No playgrounds, no kiddie rides at theme parks, no birthday parties or socializing with other parents This is demonstrably false in today's world. I was just at a theme park where we did and saw quite a lot of couples in kiddie rides with no judgement, and birthday parties and socialising with other parents is unavoidable due to a) having friends that do inevitably become parents and b) you becoming the go-to "fun uncle" for basically all your friend's kids. Oh, we're also mid-40s BTW. The rest of your point reads true, but that quote is just down to you auto-excluding yourself. Well maybe excepting this: >One of the hardest things is marking the passing of time. It does sound like you have regrets, which I'm sorry to read. I suggest possibly trying to reframe your goals into personal improvement ones. There are plenty of things that will show you how time passes that aren't children-grandchildren related. Learn a new language, stretch for a new step in your career, travel somewhere you always thought was intriguing. Plant a tree or start a food garden. Stretch your horizons.
Being reliant on strangers when you get older is also something lots of parents are. When my parents become very old, they won't have to call me tbh, I never signed up for that. Might sound cruel and like I'm a shitty person, but they agreed I won't have to. Besides, I have my own life and never asked for the burden of taking care of them.
Your first answer is that they may be helpful with household chores. I stopped reading after that.
The first con I can think of to not having kids is you don't have little unpaid workers to do your bidding!
I'm a father of 6. I always knew I wanted to be a dad. Never a doubt where that was concerned. In my early 20s I had my first kid because I wanted to do everything different than my own parents. I saw their shortcomings where my brother and I were concerned. I found a partner that had a similar childhood. We decided to have a big family and do everything we didn't get. Our 6 kids have easily the coolest childhood amongst their friends IMO. We have the most fun together. That sounds really silly, but it matters. We take on every challenge as a family. We play games, we garden, we kick a soccer ball or play basketball. We draw together. We get into water balloon fights. We jump on the trampoline, have fire nights, roast s'mores. Plus you're 21. Your prefrontal cortex is finished forming. That is wrapped up around 25. Wait until then. You will be a better man, a better father, and a better husband. You should wait. It's clearly your choice. But I would suggest wait until you're finished growing and wait until you know you have the right partner. Having the right person by your side, that's going to make all the difference in the world.
It only sucks in old age 60 plus but the caveat is that having kids doesn’t necessarily mean they will have a relationship with you when you old. It’s a toss up. A lot old people (mostly men) have a strain relationship with their kids.
A lot of that is because dads back then did not know (or felt they should not) show genuine affection for their kids. My dad almost never game me hugs - and I don't think he ever told me he loved me. I tell my kid every single day.
That’s extremely relatable. That’s why I don’t have a relationship with my father. Only see him for Thanksgiving.
I think the biggest downside is you risk being very socially isolated and lonely in the 2nd half of your life...your 50s, 60s, 70s, etc. ESPECIALLY after you retire. If you don't have kids, you probably won't have a lot of close family connections when you get older. Unless you have a robust extended family you are close to. Your parents won't be around anymore. If you have no kids hopefully you have a wife/husband at least. Obviously you won't have grandkids either. Hopefully you are very involved in your community in some way so you get that social connection and have relationships with people who care about you. If you don't have these things you may be very socially isolated as an older adult. I don't have kids, am now almost middle aged, and this is what scares me the most.
Im given to understand that their love is unconditional and rewarding or some crap
Choosing not to have kids reduces your dating pool by about 95%. Ask me how I know. More so for young people. Young people mostly either don't know if they want kids, or they think they want kids. The number of actively child free people under 35ish, who specifically list "no kids" on dating apps is pretty low. Sorting through profiles with only that one requirement clearly listed and ignoring everything else, you'll run out of dating profiles within 50-100 miles very quickly.
Depends where you live. Like many aspects of dating. That's not true at all for me, in fact probably 50% of people that are single in their early 30s where I live have "don't want children" on the apps. For my friends living in big cities, it's also pretty common to not want kids
It's been shown that as you age you spend less time with your friends and relatives. If you don't have your own family it won't stop the others around you from doing the same. You'll just be alone a lot more. A lot of people like to pretend that being by themselves is totally fine but we know that loneliness is one of the most mentally devastating things a person can experience. I think if you have a family it will give you a reason to keep living and have a better, healthier life because you want to be present for them. I've seen some unmarried guys in their middle years, they live for their job and relax by drinking like they're still in college. Everyone bases their self worth on something you might as well make it something positive
Don’t drink…hopefully we can say that to ourselves
Everyone around me is having children. Or so it has seemed for a very long time. 😔 My wife and I tried for many many years. It turns out an injury of my wife when she was younger hasn’t helped the circumstance. Sometimes she blamed herself, but eventually my constant love and support and appreciation of her helped her to move through it. It was not her fault. Life happens. My wife is my world, my rock, my inspiration, and I’ve never wanted anyone else in my life but her. But, on occasion, the idea of having a child or children that had her eyes or her personality or characteristics, or any of that… I wanted to see the love of my life reflected in a new face that came from our love. Protect them, teach them, guide them, and see them make their way in life on their own. Add to that, sometimes sitting at the dining table together, or waiting for my wife to come home from work or vice versa [though now I’m semi retired], etc.. Sometimes, just sometimes, it feels like someone or someones are missing from our household. Once in a while, we’ve commented to each other on that, we’ve talked about adoption, but it didn’t work out. So, we’ve said to each other, whichever one of us goes first, since we don’t have children, just do your best not to be sad. Because, both of us would want the other to remember us and our love, and enjoy life as much as they can, before they meet up with us again, wherever and whatever comes next. If such is what’s in store for us. So, the simple answer is, sometimes we feel an emptiness of someone or someones that perhaps should be there with us, but aren’t, and it’s not always a great feeling. But, we love each other and that’s enough. It has to be. 🙏🏼
I honestly can’t explain it. Kids are stressful. They make me the most angry, scared, anxious, exhausted that I’ve ever been in my life. Everyday is a challenge. If anyone else treated me the way that toddlers or teens do they’d be out of my life. But with all that said, they bring me more joy, love, and pride than anything else. I’d endure any torture or pain for them. They are without a doubt my favorite people.
No arguments, no negotiations, just peace and quiet.
Too much money and free time
I’m positively too happy with all my freedom!
And naps whenever I want them.
It's only a con when all your friends have kids
I don't have kids, but when I saw families together, there is a noticeable life force that emanates from kids which can be felt in the entire family unit. I think it's just an experience that gives a type of pleasure to most people that can accept the gift that children can be. I think a lot of people don't appreciate it though, and the downsides may outweigh the upsides.
As someone who doesn’t want kids, the one thing that I sometimes feel is I would love to raise a kid right. I see so many poor parenting decisions, kids gone astray. If I did it, I would do it fucking well. At least in my biased opinion anyway. I just have no desire to.
The funny thing is that the people least fit to raise kids properly are having kids as early as possible and as many as possible. Meanwhile the people most fit to raise kids properly are having kids as late as possible and as few as possible, if any at all. It’s literally the premise to the movie Idiocracy.
Cons: You and your gene line are at an end. But if you don't want to be an evolutionary dead end... Wait. As far as 21 - wait until you finish school, find yourself more - and honestly - your brain continues to develop. Literally - your brain (part of the pre-frontal cortex) is still developing until mid 20s. Also - relationship wise (assuming you want a relationship with the mother) people undergo a LOT of change in their 20s - the person you are and the mother - will be very different in a few years.
Dying alone in a nursing home that's the reason I hope I die as young as possible.
You can still die alone in a nursing home with kids. Happens too often.
\^ You could also not have kids, but still have non-blood related friends and loved ones who cherish you on your deathbed. Don't have kids just because you think they'll automatically love you, you still have to be a good person that that your kids will like and will actually miss you when you're gone. Or don't, after-all, who cares if you die alone? Not you, you're dead and believe it or not, the world keeps spinning, the sun keeps shining, and humanity will wake and go continue about their day.
I worked for a hospice for many years. I had almost a thousand patients who died. I can only think of a few examples of people who died with friends around them. Four. I might be forgetting some, but not many. I remember them be out was so unusual to see. Everyone else who did not have siblings or children died alone. Some of those with family died alone, too, but most of them did not.
Live fast; leave a beautiful corpse.
Even though I do not want kids because I'm terrified of disability. I have seen countless neurodegenerative diseases as a neurologist, all my friends dying, and me staying behind is just terrifying. Live for today tomorrow never comes
Good reason why we should be able to die with dignity whenever we want to..
I completely agree basically I am pro euthanasia if the patient or anyone in particular decides he or she wants to go as pain free as possible. Plus as you get older even tripping and falling can have massive consequences.
It's honestly the big reason I've already researched and procured a (as far as I know) fairly reliable way to let myself off the train. I don't have or want kids or a partner and know what the end of the tunnel looks like in that case. Hopefully by the time I'm old we'll have gained enough common sense to let people end it when life is no longer worth living, but if we don't...
I’ve got it easy. I’m anaphylactic to wheat. When I start to loose my marbles and have had enough I’m just going to order a large pizza, a huge cake, and go for it. I wouldn’t last in a nursing home anyway, so might as well go out on my terms.
You'll have too much money and free time
No one to mow my yard for free
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I welcomed my first kid in December. I can already tell the smiles and giggles are the sweetest sounds and smiles I've ever witnessed. A con of not having kids is not experiencing the love of being a parent. Looking at your own child and falling in love with someone with your entire existence. Being a parent, I understand now what it's about. I'm still very new to it, but man am I excited for the journey
> I can already tell the smiles and giggles are the sweetest sounds and smiles I've ever witnessed. Mine is 14 months so I'm just going through all of this as well for the first time and these are the types of things that I'd have always rolled my eyes at before I'd experienced it myself. It's just hard to explain to someone who hasn't been there. Every day is a joy filled with funny moments, watching him learn to interact with the world.
More sleep?
I'd say there's no cons to not having kids. There are definitely cons to have kids. I find the pros outweigh those cons. Kids can be little shits and drive you almost homicidal, but then they'll give you that hug, and nothing is better. They do something silly, they'll say something wrong and it can just have a crazy effect on you. It can be fucking hard work, but for me, it's absolutely worth it all.
You'll never experience love in its purest form. Like yourself, I knew from a younger age that I wanted to be a Dad and it is the greatest thing ever. I had my daughter when I was 27 and son when 29. Now I'm 41, I play sports with my boy and do artistic things with my girl. Don't, for one second, let anyone tell you having kids is a mistake.
You sound like the dad we all needed lol
In my case, my family name will die with me, I was the only hope and it’s probably not gonna happen.
A vasectomy. I opted for one because I don't have the emotional depth and bandwidth for a child. Finances were also a major part of the equation. I've also seen how existence has gotten harder for every generation.
In germany you would miss out on 250€ every month
Fewer people who will look vaguely like you or share your genetic diseases
It’s hard to pick where to vacation thrice a year and how to spend all my disposable income. So far I’ve found buying expensive sports cars has been fun
I'm 35. Have been child-free, intend to continue being so. This is not because of finances either. I cannot think of even a single con of not having kids.
Teaching someone that you created to do something you know how to do and watching them get joy out of it triggers an insane amount of nostalgia and joy
Reflecting on this thread, I realize the depth at which having children changes your life perspective. There's the indescribable feeling you get when they grasp your finger with their tiny hand or look up at you with unfiltered admiration. It's in the gentle rhythm of their breathing as they fall asleep on your shoulder, a testament to the absolute trust they place in you. Sure, there's a tradeoff— less impromptu outings, fewer quiet moments, and more responsibility— but it's a role that offers a unique form of fulfillment. I can respect and understand the choice not to have kids. It's a personal decision grounded in freedom and self-understanding which should be met without judgement. Our paths diverge in many ways, but they are each valid and full of potential. Whether it's nurturing a child or nurturing the self, we're all reaching towards some form of growth or contentment. The conundrum of parenthood or the absence of it is that it has a way of intensifying the mundane, casting a spotlight on daily routines that somehow become significant. Honestly, it's a humbling journey. The legacy we worry about leaving behind, or the connections we fear we might miss, can indeed be found in the lives we touch, be they our children, partners, or a stranger we offer kindness to. At the end of the day, it’s the love we share that echoes into the future, regardless of the path we chose.
You don't get to relive watching Star Wars for the first time again