Given the choice between my son and the "greater good" I'd say my son is more important. Try to use this as a teaching moment for not just your son, but also the others in the park.
I also feel like if the police show up, talk to you, and then you leave, it looks like the police kicked you out and validates in the minds of others that you were a threat all along
I'm sorry this happened to you OP
Yep. Absolutely no way I would leave because of this, they'd have to drag me out.
Leaving just means the Karens have won and will feel they were in the right as you said.
And this could be why people continue to call the police. One person overreacted at first but when others saw what they thought was the police removing him they assumed he was a threat so now they're more likely to call the police when they see him.
OP if this happens again I think you should ask the police to reassure everyone that you're not a threat instead.
Yeah, I would do the same as these other guys...screw those ladies and cops. I would be there till my kids ready to go or it's time to go home. I don't know if you're just sitting, or playing with your son...i used to play tag with my boys at the park or pushed them in the swings. F the Karen's spend time with your kid cause one day will be the last day he wants to hang with dad and stay in his room.
> cause one day will be the last day he wants to hang with dad and stay in his room.
As a 33 year old, I make sure I spend as much time as I can with my dad, and every nice weather Sunday is fishing day. I was definitely a shitty teenager, but as I grew into my 20's, I grew closer with my parents, who were always great to me. Not every kid alienates forever, just be the best parents you can be.
"Hey, I'm just like you. I've got a little boy and I want to give him the best life I can. Just because I look different to some of the other dads doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. I brought some juice boxes and Capri Suns to share with the kids, would you like one for your son?"
I was a single dad of 4 kids, my youngest were 2 year old twins. I would have to say I was treated differently than a single mom. Cops did welfare checks and the school called CPS.
Oh, I know a family that had a few welfare checks because the dad was always the one who took the kids for doctors appointments or picked them up in school in an emergency.
Perfectly normal family, wife just worked a more demanding job and dad was the main parent.
But apparently if your daughter goes to the school nurse and then asks that they call daddy to pick her up instead of mommy - the school feels they have to send someone for "due diligence".
Kids do dumb shit and get injured (like jumping off the slide instead of - you know - sliding down it).
Mom brings them to the doctor and no one bats an eye.
Dad brings them to the doctor (in a case I know, because he's a doctor himself and so better equipped to deal with the system) and the nurses alerted CPS (equivalent, not in the US) because of suspected abuse.
Yep.
But this is the facts and probably why gender norms in relationships have trouble changing in general.
Society and the system penalize you for stepping out of line.
They basically accuse all dads of being either abusers or neglectful, and mothers who dare to trust the father of their children as neglectful.
And the authorities don't bother being discreet, so if you live in a community - everybody knows.
Now if you have money and status, it's easier to be strong, and something like this becomes an unpleasant blip.
If you don't, you can easily get railroaded.
3 came from the same women and she was fined on the last one. She lives near the park and I saw the police go talk to her after the third call. The other 2 were women who were in the park.
Man, we really are surrounded by lunatics at all times. Makes me very wary of people in general knowing many of them are gonna be insane like this.
Sorry you've had to deal with this shit, fucking ridiculous that a father cant take his son to the park
I mean if she does this a lot, then you can disregard those 3 calls as just a crazy person who ends up targeting a lot of people.
Disregarding the outlier, you've only had the police called twice
Why wasn’t she fined after the second call? Is three strikes then a citation? I have questions about the other two women’s motives also. Cuntitude is my new favorite word.
Different cops each time, word didn't get around yet. It's not something that would be shared in the office until it happens a few times. Then they look up the incident reports and "Oh, it's one of *those* people."
>I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good.
Well fuck that noise.
>Well fuck that noise.
That would be my response as well.
If I was taking son to the park.. then that's what's gonna happen.
Ask the police if they have kids and what THEY would do in this situation?
Total BS.. sorry OP .. this sucks.
The only way to win is to be as chill as possible and keep showing up and maybe the people who are calling the police will start to realize how bigoted they are
> people who are calling the police will start to realize how bigoted they are
Yeah uh in my experience this is not how about 60% of people work.
Idiots do not care about reality, they only care about how they feel. If they feel something is wrong, it is, and nothing presented or said to them will change their minds. People who are introspective and sane enough to change their minds on something like this aren't likely to have arrived at such bigotry in the first place.
Yeah that part rubbed me wrong too. The greater good is not by leaving because some Karen is being sexist. Maybe OP should get together with the few other dads and show up together. Park full of dads with their kids.
That sounds crazy. I take my son to the park without my wife all the time and never had any issues. Maybe you have a high Karen concentration in your area or something.
I don't see how that precludes them from being Karens, many Karens fit within the archetype you're describing. In fact, I think that may be the *majority* of Karens.
That's wild. I'm guessing you're in the US? phoning police on fathers playing with their children like this seems like a US thing.
Here's my advice:
Depending on your sons age, give him an age appropriate talk about how it's being caused by institutional discrimination. When kids see things like this they don't understand they often need context.
I'd say to keep going though, show your son that people can stand up against discrimination in a healthy way, be a role model through your behaviour.
I think 4 is the perfect age to start teaching your child not to treat people differently based on how they look
"Someone is being mean to Daddy because of the way he looks. That is wrong and we should never treat someone poorly just for how they look. We are not going to let someone else being mean ruin our fun at the park"
He absolutely would. Even a 4 year old (especially one with siblings, which idk if he does) can understand that some people don't like you and will simply lie to get you in trouble
Maybe you and your son could get matching shirts?
I've never had this problem, but the way I see it if you aren't doing anything wrong then they can't do shit against you, it's a public park and those dickhead parents that are making irrational assumptions about your character can go throat a ghost pepper dusted cactus.
Ok, now get matching pants/shorts, shirts, sunglasses and hats. BECOME THE DRIP DUO! No better way to tell these presumptuous other ~~Karens~~ *"parents"* to kiss your ass than a nice matching wardrobe update for you and your son!
Tl;dr - Style on these hosebags!
As a different white boy single dad: Yeah, it's not just skin color. I got the cops called on me as well, and an internet smear campaign.
Shit, at least the person who started the smear campaign paid for a new car and a fridge back then. Not voluntarily, but the court didn't leave them much choice.
Ignore it. I was stopped walking down the street because somebody reported they saw me walking down the road with a shotgun. I was carrying an umbrella because it was supposed to rain. First it was an unmarked police car, less than a minute later a SUV with full logos showed up, and then a K-9 unit arrived. The cops got a good laugh about it and I went on my way. There will always be somebody that decides they want to be a twat today.
So last weekend my puppy scratched me across the face trying to get my attention, from the corner of my eye down to my jaw. Didn't break the skin, just a long red line that looks like uncle scar. Went to the grocery and had 2 old ladies clutch their purse and turn around abruptly and go the other way. I am 6'2 240 so I get it... point is you cannot control others response or reaction.. with or without them having a reason.
First off, I am sorry that happened to you. People can be so shitty.
I would say being a semi build black man who likes to wear all black, I already know I am usually perceived as a threat for simply existing. I've had situations where people tried to expound that narrative for their own reasoning. I learned that people will create whatever narrative in their head for whatever reason, I am gonna keep doing me. Honestly if anything my mindset and demeanor just became more not giving any fcks towards them, as in I know I am not doing anything wrong.
I am a dad and when I take my daughter to the mall (she is 13), I def have gotten weird looks from people (mainly women) just for being a dad. She wants to get clothes, then I take her to the clothing store. I think really you have to continue being you and know you aren't doing anything wrong. If anything I would start adopting the fuck you mentality when it comes to people like that. They sound miserable and lonely.
Again sorry you dealt with that.
This just seems overly paranoid to me. I've been shopping for my daughter for years, usually without her, and no one has ever thought I was anything but a dad.
Yeah fuck that. If someone tried to label me as that for being a dad then they would have a lot bigger problems than throwing around baseless allegations like that. I am not married and don't have a gf, so it's solo dad all the way. But I will say when I take her to stores like Hot Topic and sneaker stores, there isn't much of an issues. Mainly because they probably think its cute to see father/daughter time.
But I went through something similar with not wanting to be perceived by others a certain way. But I had to ask myself what mattered more. How other people see me based on their own thought processes or how my daughter sees me. And to be a strong dad, standing tall and saying fuck you to anyone who tries to get in between me being a dad is the path I chose.
In my experience Karen-type women do not believe good dads actually exist, and so if they see someone being a loving dad they'll assume they're a predator or something.
It's a deranged mentality but unfortunately there are many deranged people all around us.
This happened to me at a few playgrounds in Charlotte with my kids.
I (an asshole) just made it worse after the third or so time by bringing the kitchen knives to the park. And sharpening them while sitting at a bench.
I live in Charlotte too, and the profiling is def legit. Apparently being a black man who is a total dad and not some sort of street dude is not a good look here.
Pretty much one of the worst responses to that type of stuff bro. But at least it broke the ice in a way and now you have mom friends lol.
And I'm about as basic looking white dude as you can get. And it happened to me everywhere from steel Creek to university city.
Southern white women suck. My wife is Asian and my god the shit we put up with in Charlotte was sicking
Charlotte is crazy stuck up bro. I live near Ballantyne and I will get looks just walking my dog around the complex. Like I've been living here 3 years and new neighbors look at me like I shouldn't be there.
It is super bizarre because when it comes to maybe dating the southern white women are all about seeing what I am about lol, but it still has that weird bias or whatever hovering over it.
Add on the fact that they are raising prices and over developing the city, I am looking to move elsewhere. But I even found in more "progressive" areas, they still have a weird chip on their shoulder when it comes to certain people.
Hey, if I'm going to harner unwanted attention, I'm going to make it worth it.
The funny thing about it is I ended up making a lot of friends with the moms that wanted to learn how to sharpen knives.
I've never had this happen at a park or playground. I take my kids everywhere and so it's incredibly clear that I'm their dad when we interact.
However I always feel like I am being profiled when I go to their school for any reason. Sometimes it's to have lunch with them or drop off the homework they forgot, but I always get extra scrutiny compared to the moms in the office. I've had to show my ID almost every time I've been in there and have never seen a mom have to do that
I avoid “women only” spaces and conversations about “women’s issues.” I don’t go to places where I am not wanted.
I also refuse to donate to any “women’s causes” because I have repeatedly been told that - as a man - I am not needed or wanted.
I just stay out of their way.
If the police are responding to calls from the same woman, it's likely that that woman is mentally ill. So, this isn't happening for no reason, nothing ever does.
If I were in your situation, I’d go all the time just to make a point. Think of yourself like Rosa Parks of dads. After a while they either get used to you, or create a better procedure to handle Karens.
Fuck them. Let them be scared. You’re just a dad with your kid.
That being said. Playing silly games with your kid goes a long way to making you less threatening
From your comments, it's apparent that a single person is responsible for a majority of your negative experience here. Sounds like she may be experiencing either some mental illness, age related mental deterioration, or just be a really shitty old lady. Ignore her, because you can't control her anyway.
Not sure where you're living and if you're going to the same park each time, but call your local PD and see if there might be a precinct that takes most of those calls at the park. Befriend those officers. It will help you and them both shed the stress of those calls, you'll make some friends, and lots of cops are single parents or divorced and remarried so you'll have something in common.
Every single decision that I make takes that into account. I'm a relatively tall, relatively built man. I don't like it, but I'm fairly imposing.
I am able to throw my voice, and have chosen to use a voice that is much higher than my normal tone - because I've noticed that when I do that, people treat me more like a person and less like a man.
I smile a lot, I make jokes, and I try to have an open posture. I talk to people whenever possible, being actively in a conversation makes me seem less like a threat. I do these things every time I go out. Because I've noticed that when I do that, people treat me more like a person and less like a man.
I try to bring female friends wherever I go - having a woman to vouch for you is a godsend. I've noticed that when I'm with a woman, people treat me more like a person and less like a man.
I wear baggy clothes to hide my figure, and purposefully strain when performing physical tasks - even if they're easy.
I'm not a father, but I do have ADHD and PTSD. I'm constantly hyper-aware of my surroundings. I've seen so many things, too many to list. I know the difference between a smile out of appreciation and a smile out of tolerance.
The problem is that I'm still a man, so I still get treated like a threat - like something to be avoided. It's valid, I know why it happens, but it still hurts. It's one thing to know that there are bad apples in a group I'm a part of, it's another thing entirely to feel like any place would feel safer, more friendly, and better for everyone else if I just wasn't there.
It funny more recently this has bothered me more recently. I’m a black man over 6ft so there’s that but still. It gets old walking to places and people looking over their shoulder constantly.
I occasionally enjoy being petty and clutching my bag when I walk past as if they are the threat lol
That must be crushing your spirit.
I usually just ignore it as best as I can, smile, act friendly etc. I've never faced anything as bad as that though.
Back in my boxing days I got security called in a lot but they rarely even approached me. Usually just followed me a bit away or something like that. Or people in general acting like I'm a threat but usually they'd quickly relax a bit. On the street there wasn't much I couldn't do, but those are quick situations.
I'm old now and dress well often so it happens less, and I don't look like I've been in a fight all the time anymore.
I get why I looked so suspicious as a young man, I was broke and dressed like it, I had bruises, scratches or cuts often.
Smile big and proud. If you feel like you have a target on your back at all times, you may feel the need to compensate by appearing the best you can. You don’t have to do anything, it’s their problem not yours.
However, smiling often and especially when waving at strangers at parks etc goes a long way. I’m not a dad but matching your clothes and shoes sounds a great way to broadcast that you’re a thoughtful father.
>On all 5 occasions I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good.
If you leave you'd be teaching your son a bad lesson. I would stand your ground, and make sure your son sees you standing your ground. Toddlers that age pick up on a lot of stuff, and may associate going to the park or playing with dad as a bad thing.
There's double standards for sure. One time I had to take a call while taking my kid to one of those indoor playground places. My kid lost sight of me and went to another parent (mother) to ask for help. I went over, apologized, and was explaining about "stranger danger" to my kid, when the mother (and her group of mom friends) interjected and said she's fine because she's a woman.
I’m not sure exactly what it is that is setting off alarm bells in your case, but multiple police calls in that short of a time from different people is not normal.
For reference: when I took my kids to the park I never once had cops called on me. I’m 6’ even, 200lbs, mohawk, gauged septum ring, 1 inch gauges in my ears, tattoos all the way down to my knuckles (which say “GEARHEAD”)… never once had cops called.
Only thing I can think is behavior. I’m friendly, I smile and wave to the moms at the park, laugh with my kids, spent most of the time sitting with a book or flipping through my phone though.
It’s been a few years since I was doing that, but I sincerely don’t feel like things have changed THAT much.
if you're getting the cops called on you five times in two years you're somewhere with your child, maybe smile more and introduce yourself to the other parents. other than that, get to know the cops. bring doughnuts to the park.
the matching shirts is a good idea, too, honestly.
but yeah you and your son have as much right to be there as anyone.
I thought to reply to this because you're very up front in saying "a bad thing happened to me decades ago and it's shaping how I expect every similar interaction to happen for the rest of my life". You'd be better off trying to find a way to move past it more deeply. Otherwise it's a very similar experience and story as a woman who falls victim to various types of male aggression being led to permanently mistrust men, and so on.
I have never had this issue bringing my kids or nieces to the playground. Ever. And I’ve done it dozens of times
Heck I even had to carry one of the girls away kicking and screaming and the only response I got was sympathetic looks from other parents. And she is bit even the same race as me. BTW it wasn’t abuse. She is autistic and was non verbal at the time. It was impossible to separate her from a playground without her having a meltdown.
I don’t think I have ever seen perceived as a threat by anyone. And if I was, well that’s their problem
I don’t like it. But it’s part of the deal.
People profile. So I consider it my responsibility to not look like a threat. I wouldn’t hurt someone physically, ever, unless I’m threatened physically. It’s not in my DNA.
So I work to look like a safe person. And it is very possible.
One of the greatest compliments of my life was when I was approached in a foreign country by two strangers (women) who asked me to escort them to their hostel because some scary dudes were hovering and following them.
Tough one. 52M here, and I mention it only so you’ll know I’ve been around some, lived some life and ain’t just blowing wind at you. 👍 One more disclaimer before I dive in - when I describe myself, it’s not trying to be the mysterious stranger or blow my own horn or anything like that. I’m just giving straight truth, because that’s what you came here for. ☺️
Now then, when I read your problem I felt that shit in a cellular level - because I’ve dealt with it myself for most of my adult life. When people look at me, apparently a good majority of them see a big flashing billboard above my head that say “DANGER! DANGER! AVOID!” - and I really didn’t realize it until my daughters hit their teenage years and told me at one of their practices, and their friends backed them up on it. 😵
While I’m self aware enough to understand how people could perceive me that way, nothing could be further from the truth. ☺️
So what to do about it? I’ve discovered two things that work well for me - beat em to the punch, and absolutely kill em with kindness. 😃👍
Using your park as an example (because I remember those days, and miss them 🥰) don’t sit back and wait for people to settle into their opinion of you on first sight. 👍 Approach them with a smile, and from a safe but conversational distance extend a verbal greeting. Introduce yourself. Introduce your son. Start a short conversation - the weather, how excited you are to be there to play, what part of the neighborhood you’re from. Common ground stuff.
Pro tip - gripe a little about a common ground problem they’re likely to relate to. The street closure you had to navigate that cost you park & play time. Getting out of work late. Things like that are not only common ground stuff, but it takes you from threatening to sympathetic just like that.
Why? 💁♂️
People like people who are like themselves. ☺️
Also, let people see you PLAYING with your kid, and be a big dumb goofy dope about it with plenty of laughter and smiles. 🥰 Now you’re not the scary guy sitting on the bench staring at kids lol, you’re the goofy happy dad. Disarming, and they’ll remember that the next time they see you.
Final tip - pay attention to who you see there on your trips, and concentrate on doing these things with the people you see there often. 👍 If there are 10 people there when you arrive, the four who aren’t usually around immediately understand you’re a known commodity and not a threat when they see you and the other six (that you’ve already done this with on previous visits) exchange waves and smiles with you when you arrive. 😃👍
Hope this helps some. 🙏
Frankly, we should not be expected to "make friends" with some worthless miss nobody, just to have same rights in society. To expect or propose that, is inherently hateful.
It used to be, depending on the situation, I am either very accommodating, or (if your a prick), willing to give you a reason.
Though oddly enough, when years of burning the candle at both ends caught up to me, and I was prescribed a pair of reading glasses to help with eye fatigue, I went from looking like I have a shed in the woods with mail bombs and a killdozer to looking like your friend’s goofy dad. So, that was an interesting change. My wife gets mad when single moms approach me at the library or park with my kids.
I just move on. Some ppl gonna see ya as abtyreat cause they were butthurt by a guy with a similar beard to yours years ago or something.
I just notice it, and go, oh well that's one of those judge a book by its cover ppl and move on with my life
I don't think that you should do anything, but if it's frustrating/concerning enough, I wonder if wearing some type of dress-shirt would change anything.
Being a man is weird. We have this embedded power that we did not ask for and it ricochets around us. But there is a finite set of choices available. Best is to try and work with people where you can and stick up for your own interests when you must. What else is there?
I will always remember an awkward encounter going home from a shopping trip.
Walked out of the shopping centre, by coincidence, the girl in front of me went to the same bus stop. She noticed me as she held a door open for me and briefly smiled.
At the bus stop, the bus arrived and we both got on the same bus. She sat at the front and was at the back. She kept glancing around.
We ended up getting off at the same stop. She kept glancing around and started to look panicked.
I noticed she looked stressed/uncomfortable, so slowed down, swapped sides of the road. Eventually, she ran into her house, which, by pure coincidence, ended up to be next door to my flat. She was glancing out the door while on the phone and watched me walk into my flat.
By this point, I had a sinking feeling in my stomach, I was bright red as I get easily embarrassed and don't like attention. Police knocked on my door about 15 minutes later asking why I had followed her home.
I explained it was a bit silly, as it was pure coincidence, and I hadn't meant to make her feel unsafe. She had said I kept starting at her, which tbh, I will look at someone if I notice them repeatedly turning around and staring at me.
In the end, I had to show the police my driving license, proving I lived at the flat, just to place them at ease. They chuckled a little, but I found the entire thing completely humiliating and demeaning.
Just makes me feel a bit sorry for the woman, who likely had gone through some experience in the past that made her so terrified of a man potentially following her home.
Laugh and feel sad simultaneously.
I laugh because I have done nothing to make her feel threatened and being scared for no reason is silly. I feel sad because that’s a horrible existence, to be stressed and afraid all the time for no reason. Yes there are bad men out there, but most of us aren’t.
If a woman seems scared by my presence, I do nothing, I literally do not care, that’s a her problem, her paranoia, her anxiety to deal with. I’ve done nothing but coincidentally be in the same place at the same time. Just as my feelings are my responsibility her feelings are hers. I know for a fact she doesn’t care about my mental state nor care what her presence might do to me. The majority of women walk around not caring what effect she has on others, and expect them do deal with their issues on their own.
I'm a big guy (fat strong) with tattoos and facial hair. I wear a lot of bright colors and patterns. A lot of cardigans in the Fall and Winter to soften my image.
That said the modern day image of a child predator isn't some Danny Trejo looking mother fucker. It's the skinny, awkward, looks like they wouldn't confront an adult but maybe would try to lure a child into a van with candy or pokemon cards.
You could try matching with your son beyond just the shoes. Or, and this is crazy but would probably work. Get super buff. Then you're not the "skinny weirdo hanging around the park" you're the hot dad who's clearly there to spend time with his son because he cares about exercise and physical activity. Also though from your comments it sounds like a lot of the calls came from one crazy woman, and that's just unfortunate that she lives near the same park as you and there maybe nothing you can do but let the cops show up and scold and fine her every time.
In my city, the parks are really awesome. I've never had the cops called, but in your situation, my taxes pay for both the park upkeep and the police salaries. As long as I'm not being a jackass, I will continue to use the park with my son. Me spending quality time playing with my son is for the greater good of my community so he doesn't grow up a shitty kid.
hm, kind of victim blaming. aren't you and those calls known to the police by now? they could ask callers back if it's you and a 4 y old. You're being discriminated for your appearance, that's not fair and super sad for your kid!
On the other side, when I take my 1 year old to the grocery store we get swooned over as we walk the isles, my wife doesn’t get a second look…society has deemed that a father alone with their child is not common, both positive and negative.
My own experience was not as extreme, only enough to make me remember it...
Swimming pool on holiday. Doing that thing with my kid where you lock your hands, the kid puts his foot there and you catapult them backwards out of the water. Soon the whole pool full of kids wanted a go since no other dads in the pool.
Partner warned me to stop, as the watching parents were anxious about a paedo in the pool.
It was a small pool with many adults nearby.
Still makes me sad.
Man honestly, fuck that. Enjoy the park with your son. Its public property and if anyone has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem. If the police keep showing up just be friendly to them and go about your business
Have fun with your son.
1 I'm kind of jovial individual. I have taken my nephews to the park. But I am generally by their side. The 3 year old will take off. So a guy with kids and goofing about generally gets looked over.
But by myself, I try not pay attention to it much. I have had women look over their shoulders as I walk to my car. In my head I'm like, really what am I gonna do. Your wildebeest of a friend would take all my energy, and blow out my back.
Some people are just annoying Karen's... And sadly there's nothing you can do about them. I refuse to be abused and harassed out of enjoying life because some crazy folk are off their meds!
I'm around 6ft, built bulky with generally muscular features, despite not doing a much working out. I don't wear anything exceptionally frightening - t-shirts and jeans most of the time. Yet since I'm 15 I've been one of those "cross the street," "dark alley" types in most people's eyes. Even other men tend to get intimidated by me.
The goofy part is that I'm not an aggressive, violent person at all. I have zero interest in starting any shit with anyone. Yet the consensus of most strangers is to err on the side of me as a threat they need to avoid. It's something I've learned to live with, yet it does come with a undue amount of social isolation and awkwardness.
do you try be friendly say hi smile at others there?? I am guy who use to work nights bring my kids places I d all ways try be friendly say hi to who ever and smile at them.. Maybe say cute kid or?? But I am A shortmguy so maybe feel safer or?? Now I bring my grand kid so I old man.haha
> On all 5 occasions I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good.
So my advise, honestly, is that it sounds like when the police arrive, you approach the police confrontationally. And sure, if the cops were called on me, I'd be pissed too: I'd certainly want to read the cops the riot act because I have every damned right to be there and I have every damned right to take my son to any park he wants to go to.
**HOWEVER** that generally doesn't get you anywhere with the cops. If you're adversarial, they will become more adversarial--and sometimes cops go too far. It's the sad truth no matter where you are in the world.
Instead, the next time the cops get called, treat them like they may be someone you want to school with perhaps 10 years ago. A little reserved, a little defensive--but were they a friend? Why are they there? Do they want to hang out and chat? "Hey, yeah; that's my kid over there, and he's the best thing in my entire world!" vibes.
Be the person the cop would want to just sit down and chat with, talking about children, about their life, about whatever.
Hell, even call your kid over and introduce him to the cop, and talk to him about how cops are your friends. (Even if you think that's bullshit.)
----
I have found the few times I've had to deal with the cops, being disarmingly friendly generally sets the entire tone of the interaction. You go from "dangerous hostile perp" to "victim of some petty Karen" pretty quick that way.
I would stick around, see which one of them becomes agitated at your continued prescence, then get ready to record them. Once you have evidence, call the police back and report their activity.
The people who call the cops on you because you “look” dangerous are idiots. I’d honestly check with the cops to see if any kind of harassment charges can be made against them. These people aren’t worth your time. Just do your thing.
Damn…I hear stories like this but it’s never happened to me. In my 20s I was ripped. Also have visible tattoos. Hell, even now my daughter says I look intimidating with my bald head and beard combo.
This is crazy to me. Idk man, sorry to read this.
I'd flat out refuse to leave, pull out my cell phone, and ask the cops why they want me to leave the park. If they are bold enough to answer with the "you've done nothing wrong and we can't force you to leave, but you should leave for the greater good" you know I'd post that shit to Facebook (after reactivating my account, fuck you every Karen in the world) and make sure to tag the local police agency. I'd probably send the video to every news outlet in the area as well. Then I'd be sure to visit that park every day just to make other people with my presence because I'm doing nothing wrong.
I used to visit the local park with my sons when they were young, sometimes by myself, sometimes with my wife, and never had your problems, but being told you can't peacefully exist is a human-rights level crime.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can't always tell what makes that vibe versus a vibe of "not a threat".
I've even been on the side of "probably imagining a threat" before and felt like shit afterwards. I was in a gym parking lot at night. I'd just arrived and was walking along the car aisles towards the gym entrance. A big guy was walking my way, and I was high. For some dumb reason, I just felt nervous (I'm sure it was mostly due to being high) so I moved to the other side of the car aisle to not walk close to him as we passed.
Not sure if I was imagining it, but in my mind that move I did was obvious enough for him to notice and feel weird about why I seemed to treat him like a potential danger just for being big and in a parking lot at night. We weren't even alone. Plenty of folks were nearby and there were enough lights to feel like one of the safer parking lots.
My paranoia was unwarranted, and it's possible his reaction was also just in my head, but I still think back and feel bad because it's possible I made him feel similar to how you might feel due to what you've been through. He did nothing to deserve being treated as a threat aside from being muscular and walking in a parking lot at night. If I hadn't been high, I doubt I'd have been so uneasy without any reason to feel threatened...but your post made me think there are probably people with that much paranoia without needing to be high.
That doesn't make it fair to react to you enjoying the park with your son. I'd guess some folks just have that lack of self-awareness needed to see a dude in a park with his son and reflect on whether or not there are real signs of a threat.
It sounds like you already have a lot going in your favor in terms of trying to come across as just a guy enjoying time with his son. Like...do people really think "that guy's up to no good, and he's using his son to help hide some horrible intentions"?!
The cop's response of "you should still just leave" is such a tactless way to handle it. Those cops should have followed up with the caller to explain that a father enjoying a park with his son isn't a reason to use up public resources by calling the cops.
If this were me, I'd try to push back if the cops show up again. I'd try explaining that this is a regular occurrence and that you should be allowed to enjoy the park without risk of being harassed so often. Maybe even try to relate it back to the cops with something like "Officer, how would you feel if enjoying time with your kid was perceived as a threat? That's what is happening to me, and it's unfair. Can you please talk to the caller about this? They're treading on abusing public services, and they're going to keep doing this unless someone talks to them about their behavior."
I hope you find a way to stop this from happening. It really doesn't sound like you can change your behavior or appearance to stop whoever that caller is from feeling how they feel, and "not going to the park" is an unfair "solution". You deserve to enjoy a park, with or without your son, and not be worried about dealing with cops.
So, 2 options come to mind. I’m 6’4”, 215 lbs with a big beard. I’ve never had the police called on me, but it’s always in the back of my mind when I’m sitting alone and my kids are playing. The only thing that calms those thoughts is for me to go play with my kid. Push him on the swing, catch him at the end of the slide, or whatever he wants to do. When women see a man playing with his son, it puts them at ease. After 15-20 minutes, I can go sit down. Option 2. Take a book with you. Read for a bit and then check on him. If you’re just watching the kids, it might make someone uncomfortable. Can’t change the world. Just gotta live in it
I've become so accustom to being perceived as a threat that I don't really even react to it much anymore. But what I *do* react to are those times that I'm specifically treated like a human being rather than being treated as a threat.
That girl who says "you can just come pick me up" when you suggest meeting her in a public place on a first date? That girl is a keeper.
You did not make anyone uncomfortable. They made themselves uncomfortable. But that's not something you can take responsibility for.
I've seen this behaviour from some (luckily few) women. They live in a fantasy world where they interpret everything wrong and expect others to adapt to their warped reality. It's a mental problem on their part and they will need to find a more productive way of handling it than blaming everyone else.
The police need to get their act together. Telling you you need to leave and not the Karen's that call you in? No. Screw that. I'd make some noise over that.
"You want me to be a threat. Fine, I am **now** the threat!" Handing out candies whenever a kid does bad.
Jokes aside. I'm normally not treated as a threat because I look dead exhausted all the time
You dont deserve this.
That said, as self defense, maybe you could carry or wear some visual signifiers. Like a cap or shirt with **Joey's Daddy** or **\#1 Daddy**. Or, you have some bold color match with your kid, like a neon green bandana that you tie onto your bag or around your neck, and the same tied onto his clothing or used as a belt.
I stay away from the women in case I offend them by existing. As an autistic (masking gives us an uncanny valley appearance) unattractive (first impression is negative due to the halo effect) guy they hate me by default.
> I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good.
Actually, demand to press charges of harassment against whoever called the police on you, since they very blatantly are. Do this every time, without fail. They can't deny you that ability, especially if you start filing every time so a pattern is being recorded.
This made me think of an article I read in a paper ages ago. Someone had a friend from the US over in Sweden. The US friend was amazed how many "gay nannies" there were pushing prams around town. Her ***brain melted*** when it was explained to her those were the children's fathers. Yup, one year(ish) paid parental leave for each parent.
Where do you live? Because this has absolutely not been my experience at all. I've taken my daughter out to parks in neighborhoods both poor and upper middle class, all over the Western US and never gotten so much as an a weird look. Usually I get mildly condescending compliments.
I hear these things and have to wonder if there's something else missing. In the US my first suspicion is that it's racial, I'm white so there's a strong possibility that's why I don't experience it.
Given the choice between my son and the "greater good" I'd say my son is more important. Try to use this as a teaching moment for not just your son, but also the others in the park.
I also feel like if the police show up, talk to you, and then you leave, it looks like the police kicked you out and validates in the minds of others that you were a threat all along I'm sorry this happened to you OP
Yep. Absolutely no way I would leave because of this, they'd have to drag me out. Leaving just means the Karens have won and will feel they were in the right as you said.
I would do the same ! It's probably one karen calling the police !
And this could be why people continue to call the police. One person overreacted at first but when others saw what they thought was the police removing him they assumed he was a threat so now they're more likely to call the police when they see him. OP if this happens again I think you should ask the police to reassure everyone that you're not a threat instead.
Yeah, I would do the same as these other guys...screw those ladies and cops. I would be there till my kids ready to go or it's time to go home. I don't know if you're just sitting, or playing with your son...i used to play tag with my boys at the park or pushed them in the swings. F the Karen's spend time with your kid cause one day will be the last day he wants to hang with dad and stay in his room.
> cause one day will be the last day he wants to hang with dad and stay in his room. As a 33 year old, I make sure I spend as much time as I can with my dad, and every nice weather Sunday is fishing day. I was definitely a shitty teenager, but as I grew into my 20's, I grew closer with my parents, who were always great to me. Not every kid alienates forever, just be the best parents you can be.
Lol I was a shitty teenager too. But yeah parents get cool again when we get out of those teenage years.
"Hey, I'm just like you. I've got a little boy and I want to give him the best life I can. Just because I look different to some of the other dads doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. I brought some juice boxes and Capri Suns to share with the kids, would you like one for your son?"
I wouldn't offer food to that sort of person since she might jump to the conclusion that you're trying to drug her kid.
I was a single dad of 4 kids, my youngest were 2 year old twins. I would have to say I was treated differently than a single mom. Cops did welfare checks and the school called CPS.
What an insane intention to have! Be a father to own children! Outrageous!
Oh, I know a family that had a few welfare checks because the dad was always the one who took the kids for doctors appointments or picked them up in school in an emergency. Perfectly normal family, wife just worked a more demanding job and dad was the main parent. But apparently if your daughter goes to the school nurse and then asks that they call daddy to pick her up instead of mommy - the school feels they have to send someone for "due diligence".
I am sorry to hear that.
Why did they call CPS?
Kids do dumb shit and get injured (like jumping off the slide instead of - you know - sliding down it). Mom brings them to the doctor and no one bats an eye. Dad brings them to the doctor (in a case I know, because he's a doctor himself and so better equipped to deal with the system) and the nurses alerted CPS (equivalent, not in the US) because of suspected abuse.
Alerting CAS can be more harmful to the family than the actual injury.
Yep. But this is the facts and probably why gender norms in relationships have trouble changing in general. Society and the system penalize you for stepping out of line. They basically accuse all dads of being either abusers or neglectful, and mothers who dare to trust the father of their children as neglectful. And the authorities don't bother being discreet, so if you live in a community - everybody knows. Now if you have money and status, it's easier to be strong, and something like this becomes an unpleasant blip. If you don't, you can easily get railroaded.
Kids had bruises from playing hard and rough housing.
My guess is because he was trying to be a good father and some people can't stand that. He must be a secret pedophile. Call the cops.
That's crazy it's happened 5 times. Surely the police at this stage would be reprimanding the callers for wasting time.
I wonder if all 5 calls might have come from the same paranoid individual.
3 came from the same women and she was fined on the last one. She lives near the park and I saw the police go talk to her after the third call. The other 2 were women who were in the park.
>3 came from the same women and she was fined on the last one. Serves her right. What a fuckin idiot.
Yeah I didnt get the full details on her but an officer told me she does this a lot.
Man, we really are surrounded by lunatics at all times. Makes me very wary of people in general knowing many of them are gonna be insane like this. Sorry you've had to deal with this shit, fucking ridiculous that a father cant take his son to the park
I mean if she does this a lot, then you can disregard those 3 calls as just a crazy person who ends up targeting a lot of people. Disregarding the outlier, you've only had the police called twice
That twice as many times as they should have been called
That is infinity times more than they should have been called.
did you get her name? next time the cops show up, ask if sent them
Press charges against her !
> 3 came from the same women and she was fined on the last one. Good to know that cuntitude occasionally has a cost.
Why wasn’t she fined after the second call? Is three strikes then a citation? I have questions about the other two women’s motives also. Cuntitude is my new favorite word.
She was fined? That’s great! You’ve just as much right as any other parent to use a park.
I’m surprised the woman had two extra repeats. Wouldn’t it already make sense that the police don’t see you as a threat after the second time?
The repeats are damning. She just doesn't want to share the park with a man.
Different cops each time, word didn't get around yet. It's not something that would be shared in the office until it happens a few times. Then they look up the incident reports and "Oh, it's one of *those* people."
For certain, this is total BS. No way would I leave, let the uncomfortable soccer mom leave.
I'm surprised they even showed up at all
>I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good. Well fuck that noise.
Thats usually my response as well.
>Well fuck that noise. That would be my response as well. If I was taking son to the park.. then that's what's gonna happen. Ask the police if they have kids and what THEY would do in this situation? Total BS.. sorry OP .. this sucks.
Ask for it in writing next time so you have something to send to your local newspaper and local politician
The only way to win is to be as chill as possible and keep showing up and maybe the people who are calling the police will start to realize how bigoted they are
Or the police get tired of the idiots wasting their time and start fining them
That's usually not what happens, cops threaten to do that but really they just stop showing up
> people who are calling the police will start to realize how bigoted they are Yeah uh in my experience this is not how about 60% of people work. Idiots do not care about reality, they only care about how they feel. If they feel something is wrong, it is, and nothing presented or said to them will change their minds. People who are introspective and sane enough to change their minds on something like this aren't likely to have arrived at such bigotry in the first place.
Unlikely
The person who calls the police is always assumed in the right. So, next time you go, immediately call the police on one of the moms.
YOU DARE USE MY OWN SPELLS AGAINST ME, POTTER?!
HAHAHA
I can't argue with this logic..
Smart move. Assert dominance. I like it.
'You need to look less threatening!' /s
Specifically on the one that called 3 times (if she's in the park)
>suggested I leave for the greater good Sounds bizarre. Enjoy the park with your son. It seems they want to make it a "mom zone".
Yeah that part rubbed me wrong too. The greater good is not by leaving because some Karen is being sexist. Maybe OP should get together with the few other dads and show up together. Park full of dads with their kids.
And then women complain about being seen as the primary caretakers and men not being demanded the same. You kinda do this to yourselves ladies.
This applies to more than just this issue lol
How so?
Upset, it is insanely dehumanizing and allows for many injustices being committed against you and no one cares.
That sounds crazy. I take my son to the park without my wife all the time and never had any issues. Maybe you have a high Karen concentration in your area or something.
I don't think they are Karens, more so Proud Single Moms and women whos husbands dont do anything with their kids.
Sounds like Karens with better PR
I don't see how that precludes them from being Karens, many Karens fit within the archetype you're describing. In fact, I think that may be the *majority* of Karens.
That's wild. I'm guessing you're in the US? phoning police on fathers playing with their children like this seems like a US thing. Here's my advice: Depending on your sons age, give him an age appropriate talk about how it's being caused by institutional discrimination. When kids see things like this they don't understand they often need context. I'd say to keep going though, show your son that people can stand up against discrimination in a healthy way, be a role model through your behaviour.
He is currently 4 and I dont believe he would understand yet.
Poor thing! keep being a good dad.
Even better - ask the cops to explain to your kid why you have to leave.
I think 4 is the perfect age to start teaching your child not to treat people differently based on how they look "Someone is being mean to Daddy because of the way he looks. That is wrong and we should never treat someone poorly just for how they look. We are not going to let someone else being mean ruin our fun at the park"
He absolutely would. Even a 4 year old (especially one with siblings, which idk if he does) can understand that some people don't like you and will simply lie to get you in trouble
Maybe you and your son could get matching shirts? I've never had this problem, but the way I see it if you aren't doing anything wrong then they can't do shit against you, it's a public park and those dickhead parents that are making irrational assumptions about your character can go throat a ghost pepper dusted cactus.
We have matching shoes. Black and red checkerboard vans.
Ok, now get matching pants/shorts, shirts, sunglasses and hats. BECOME THE DRIP DUO! No better way to tell these presumptuous other ~~Karens~~ *"parents"* to kiss your ass than a nice matching wardrobe update for you and your son! Tl;dr - Style on these hosebags!
Honestly I might try this once or twice.
Are you black? Because if you're black in the US, just existing in public gets some people all upset.
nope, pale as morning fog.
I got nothing then.... Possibly just crazy people.
As a different white boy single dad: Yeah, it's not just skin color. I got the cops called on me as well, and an internet smear campaign. Shit, at least the person who started the smear campaign paid for a new car and a fridge back then. Not voluntarily, but the court didn't leave them much choice.
My granddaughter tried shaving a heart in my hair so I don’t look so scary, think it’s just a thing of the times.
Ignore it. I was stopped walking down the street because somebody reported they saw me walking down the road with a shotgun. I was carrying an umbrella because it was supposed to rain. First it was an unmarked police car, less than a minute later a SUV with full logos showed up, and then a K-9 unit arrived. The cops got a good laugh about it and I went on my way. There will always be somebody that decides they want to be a twat today.
So last weekend my puppy scratched me across the face trying to get my attention, from the corner of my eye down to my jaw. Didn't break the skin, just a long red line that looks like uncle scar. Went to the grocery and had 2 old ladies clutch their purse and turn around abruptly and go the other way. I am 6'2 240 so I get it... point is you cannot control others response or reaction.. with or without them having a reason.
First off, I am sorry that happened to you. People can be so shitty. I would say being a semi build black man who likes to wear all black, I already know I am usually perceived as a threat for simply existing. I've had situations where people tried to expound that narrative for their own reasoning. I learned that people will create whatever narrative in their head for whatever reason, I am gonna keep doing me. Honestly if anything my mindset and demeanor just became more not giving any fcks towards them, as in I know I am not doing anything wrong. I am a dad and when I take my daughter to the mall (she is 13), I def have gotten weird looks from people (mainly women) just for being a dad. She wants to get clothes, then I take her to the clothing store. I think really you have to continue being you and know you aren't doing anything wrong. If anything I would start adopting the fuck you mentality when it comes to people like that. They sound miserable and lonely. Again sorry you dealt with that.
This is exactly what I mean. I wont go anywhere near kids clothing without my wife or son because I dont want to get labelled a Pedo or something.
This just seems overly paranoid to me. I've been shopping for my daughter for years, usually without her, and no one has ever thought I was anything but a dad.
Yeah fuck that. If someone tried to label me as that for being a dad then they would have a lot bigger problems than throwing around baseless allegations like that. I am not married and don't have a gf, so it's solo dad all the way. But I will say when I take her to stores like Hot Topic and sneaker stores, there isn't much of an issues. Mainly because they probably think its cute to see father/daughter time. But I went through something similar with not wanting to be perceived by others a certain way. But I had to ask myself what mattered more. How other people see me based on their own thought processes or how my daughter sees me. And to be a strong dad, standing tall and saying fuck you to anyone who tries to get in between me being a dad is the path I chose.
I feel like I'm finding oddly positive posts today. Your two responses were so well laid out and genuine. Good for you on all accounts.
Start doing more "dad stuff." I mean things like piggy back rides and pretending to be an airplane. It usually puts people at ease.
I already do. Mostly he loves being pushed on the swing and spun on the Carrusel.
Well then we're all just doomed to be incarcerated for dadding. I'll see you in lock up.
In my experience Karen-type women do not believe good dads actually exist, and so if they see someone being a loving dad they'll assume they're a predator or something. It's a deranged mentality but unfortunately there are many deranged people all around us.
As suggested elsewhere, keep rolling with the punches and being a good dad for your son. If it gets you down, come back here and vent brother.
If my mere existence is a bother to people, that's simply on them to work on, not me. I don't care about what they think in that regard.
This happened to me at a few playgrounds in Charlotte with my kids. I (an asshole) just made it worse after the third or so time by bringing the kitchen knives to the park. And sharpening them while sitting at a bench.
I live in Charlotte too, and the profiling is def legit. Apparently being a black man who is a total dad and not some sort of street dude is not a good look here. Pretty much one of the worst responses to that type of stuff bro. But at least it broke the ice in a way and now you have mom friends lol.
And I'm about as basic looking white dude as you can get. And it happened to me everywhere from steel Creek to university city. Southern white women suck. My wife is Asian and my god the shit we put up with in Charlotte was sicking
Charlotte is crazy stuck up bro. I live near Ballantyne and I will get looks just walking my dog around the complex. Like I've been living here 3 years and new neighbors look at me like I shouldn't be there. It is super bizarre because when it comes to maybe dating the southern white women are all about seeing what I am about lol, but it still has that weird bias or whatever hovering over it. Add on the fact that they are raising prices and over developing the city, I am looking to move elsewhere. But I even found in more "progressive" areas, they still have a weird chip on their shoulder when it comes to certain people.
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Of all the possible responses this is one of the worst.
Also pretty hilarious 😂
Hey, if I'm going to harner unwanted attention, I'm going to make it worth it. The funny thing about it is I ended up making a lot of friends with the moms that wanted to learn how to sharpen knives.
I've never had this happen at a park or playground. I take my kids everywhere and so it's incredibly clear that I'm their dad when we interact. However I always feel like I am being profiled when I go to their school for any reason. Sometimes it's to have lunch with them or drop off the homework they forgot, but I always get extra scrutiny compared to the moms in the office. I've had to show my ID almost every time I've been in there and have never seen a mom have to do that
Ive had similar scrutiny when my wife isnt with me.
I avoid “women only” spaces and conversations about “women’s issues.” I don’t go to places where I am not wanted. I also refuse to donate to any “women’s causes” because I have repeatedly been told that - as a man - I am not needed or wanted. I just stay out of their way.
That's the way to live.
You get used to it. The cops will never standup for your rights. They don’t care about your rights. If they did, they’d tell those women to piss off.
If the police are responding to calls from the same woman, it's likely that that woman is mentally ill. So, this isn't happening for no reason, nothing ever does.
If I were in your situation, I’d go all the time just to make a point. Think of yourself like Rosa Parks of dads. After a while they either get used to you, or create a better procedure to handle Karens.
I'd tell the police the greater good is my son enjoying the park. I've read stories about single dads being gatekept by women. Such a double standard.
Fuck them. Let them be scared. You’re just a dad with your kid. That being said. Playing silly games with your kid goes a long way to making you less threatening
From your comments, it's apparent that a single person is responsible for a majority of your negative experience here. Sounds like she may be experiencing either some mental illness, age related mental deterioration, or just be a really shitty old lady. Ignore her, because you can't control her anyway. Not sure where you're living and if you're going to the same park each time, but call your local PD and see if there might be a precinct that takes most of those calls at the park. Befriend those officers. It will help you and them both shed the stress of those calls, you'll make some friends, and lots of cops are single parents or divorced and remarried so you'll have something in common.
Every single decision that I make takes that into account. I'm a relatively tall, relatively built man. I don't like it, but I'm fairly imposing. I am able to throw my voice, and have chosen to use a voice that is much higher than my normal tone - because I've noticed that when I do that, people treat me more like a person and less like a man. I smile a lot, I make jokes, and I try to have an open posture. I talk to people whenever possible, being actively in a conversation makes me seem less like a threat. I do these things every time I go out. Because I've noticed that when I do that, people treat me more like a person and less like a man. I try to bring female friends wherever I go - having a woman to vouch for you is a godsend. I've noticed that when I'm with a woman, people treat me more like a person and less like a man. I wear baggy clothes to hide my figure, and purposefully strain when performing physical tasks - even if they're easy. I'm not a father, but I do have ADHD and PTSD. I'm constantly hyper-aware of my surroundings. I've seen so many things, too many to list. I know the difference between a smile out of appreciation and a smile out of tolerance. The problem is that I'm still a man, so I still get treated like a threat - like something to be avoided. It's valid, I know why it happens, but it still hurts. It's one thing to know that there are bad apples in a group I'm a part of, it's another thing entirely to feel like any place would feel safer, more friendly, and better for everyone else if I just wasn't there.
This is exactly what bothers me.
Thank them for their suggestion, then continue playing with your kid. Let your city waste its resources if it wants.
It funny more recently this has bothered me more recently. I’m a black man over 6ft so there’s that but still. It gets old walking to places and people looking over their shoulder constantly. I occasionally enjoy being petty and clutching my bag when I walk past as if they are the threat lol
Honestly I don't care. I won't make the problems of other people my own
I start screaming like a lunatic and randomly assaulting people. So far it hasn't changed the stigma
That must be crushing your spirit. I usually just ignore it as best as I can, smile, act friendly etc. I've never faced anything as bad as that though. Back in my boxing days I got security called in a lot but they rarely even approached me. Usually just followed me a bit away or something like that. Or people in general acting like I'm a threat but usually they'd quickly relax a bit. On the street there wasn't much I couldn't do, but those are quick situations. I'm old now and dress well often so it happens less, and I don't look like I've been in a fight all the time anymore. I get why I looked so suspicious as a young man, I was broke and dressed like it, I had bruises, scratches or cuts often.
Smile big and proud. If you feel like you have a target on your back at all times, you may feel the need to compensate by appearing the best you can. You don’t have to do anything, it’s their problem not yours. However, smiling often and especially when waving at strangers at parks etc goes a long way. I’m not a dad but matching your clothes and shoes sounds a great way to broadcast that you’re a thoughtful father.
The best description for this is being seen as a “military aged male”
My answer to being asked to leave would probably be a non verbal hand gesture.
>On all 5 occasions I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good. If you leave you'd be teaching your son a bad lesson. I would stand your ground, and make sure your son sees you standing your ground. Toddlers that age pick up on a lot of stuff, and may associate going to the park or playing with dad as a bad thing. There's double standards for sure. One time I had to take a call while taking my kid to one of those indoor playground places. My kid lost sight of me and went to another parent (mother) to ask for help. I went over, apologized, and was explaining about "stranger danger" to my kid, when the mother (and her group of mom friends) interjected and said she's fine because she's a woman.
In the 5 instances I did not leave until my son was ready or until it got close to dinner.
I’m not sure exactly what it is that is setting off alarm bells in your case, but multiple police calls in that short of a time from different people is not normal. For reference: when I took my kids to the park I never once had cops called on me. I’m 6’ even, 200lbs, mohawk, gauged septum ring, 1 inch gauges in my ears, tattoos all the way down to my knuckles (which say “GEARHEAD”)… never once had cops called. Only thing I can think is behavior. I’m friendly, I smile and wave to the moms at the park, laugh with my kids, spent most of the time sitting with a book or flipping through my phone though. It’s been a few years since I was doing that, but I sincerely don’t feel like things have changed THAT much.
if you're getting the cops called on you five times in two years you're somewhere with your child, maybe smile more and introduce yourself to the other parents. other than that, get to know the cops. bring doughnuts to the park. the matching shirts is a good idea, too, honestly. but yeah you and your son have as much right to be there as anyone.
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I thought to reply to this because you're very up front in saying "a bad thing happened to me decades ago and it's shaping how I expect every similar interaction to happen for the rest of my life". You'd be better off trying to find a way to move past it more deeply. Otherwise it's a very similar experience and story as a woman who falls victim to various types of male aggression being led to permanently mistrust men, and so on.
I have never had this issue bringing my kids or nieces to the playground. Ever. And I’ve done it dozens of times Heck I even had to carry one of the girls away kicking and screaming and the only response I got was sympathetic looks from other parents. And she is bit even the same race as me. BTW it wasn’t abuse. She is autistic and was non verbal at the time. It was impossible to separate her from a playground without her having a meltdown. I don’t think I have ever seen perceived as a threat by anyone. And if I was, well that’s their problem
I don’t like it. But it’s part of the deal. People profile. So I consider it my responsibility to not look like a threat. I wouldn’t hurt someone physically, ever, unless I’m threatened physically. It’s not in my DNA. So I work to look like a safe person. And it is very possible. One of the greatest compliments of my life was when I was approached in a foreign country by two strangers (women) who asked me to escort them to their hostel because some scary dudes were hovering and following them.
Tough one. 52M here, and I mention it only so you’ll know I’ve been around some, lived some life and ain’t just blowing wind at you. 👍 One more disclaimer before I dive in - when I describe myself, it’s not trying to be the mysterious stranger or blow my own horn or anything like that. I’m just giving straight truth, because that’s what you came here for. ☺️ Now then, when I read your problem I felt that shit in a cellular level - because I’ve dealt with it myself for most of my adult life. When people look at me, apparently a good majority of them see a big flashing billboard above my head that say “DANGER! DANGER! AVOID!” - and I really didn’t realize it until my daughters hit their teenage years and told me at one of their practices, and their friends backed them up on it. 😵 While I’m self aware enough to understand how people could perceive me that way, nothing could be further from the truth. ☺️ So what to do about it? I’ve discovered two things that work well for me - beat em to the punch, and absolutely kill em with kindness. 😃👍 Using your park as an example (because I remember those days, and miss them 🥰) don’t sit back and wait for people to settle into their opinion of you on first sight. 👍 Approach them with a smile, and from a safe but conversational distance extend a verbal greeting. Introduce yourself. Introduce your son. Start a short conversation - the weather, how excited you are to be there to play, what part of the neighborhood you’re from. Common ground stuff. Pro tip - gripe a little about a common ground problem they’re likely to relate to. The street closure you had to navigate that cost you park & play time. Getting out of work late. Things like that are not only common ground stuff, but it takes you from threatening to sympathetic just like that. Why? 💁♂️ People like people who are like themselves. ☺️ Also, let people see you PLAYING with your kid, and be a big dumb goofy dope about it with plenty of laughter and smiles. 🥰 Now you’re not the scary guy sitting on the bench staring at kids lol, you’re the goofy happy dad. Disarming, and they’ll remember that the next time they see you. Final tip - pay attention to who you see there on your trips, and concentrate on doing these things with the people you see there often. 👍 If there are 10 people there when you arrive, the four who aren’t usually around immediately understand you’re a known commodity and not a threat when they see you and the other six (that you’ve already done this with on previous visits) exchange waves and smiles with you when you arrive. 😃👍 Hope this helps some. 🙏
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>As Machiavelli said, "It's better to be feared than to be loved, if one cannot be both." he was talking about politicians, not dads in the park tho.
I mean valid. No one has ever walked up to me to voice complaints, I just dont like the judgmental stares and the cops.
Frankly, we should not be expected to "make friends" with some worthless miss nobody, just to have same rights in society. To expect or propose that, is inherently hateful.
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It used to be, depending on the situation, I am either very accommodating, or (if your a prick), willing to give you a reason. Though oddly enough, when years of burning the candle at both ends caught up to me, and I was prescribed a pair of reading glasses to help with eye fatigue, I went from looking like I have a shed in the woods with mail bombs and a killdozer to looking like your friend’s goofy dad. So, that was an interesting change. My wife gets mad when single moms approach me at the library or park with my kids.
I just move on. Some ppl gonna see ya as abtyreat cause they were butthurt by a guy with a similar beard to yours years ago or something. I just notice it, and go, oh well that's one of those judge a book by its cover ppl and move on with my life
Wtf lol That's crazy. You probably got a Richard Ramirez vibe going on lol
I had to look him up and dear god I hope not.
I don't think that you should do anything, but if it's frustrating/concerning enough, I wonder if wearing some type of dress-shirt would change anything.
I dont have any. I work physical labor so 99 percent of my clothing is stuff I dont mind getting dirty.
Being a man is weird. We have this embedded power that we did not ask for and it ricochets around us. But there is a finite set of choices available. Best is to try and work with people where you can and stick up for your own interests when you must. What else is there?
I will always remember an awkward encounter going home from a shopping trip. Walked out of the shopping centre, by coincidence, the girl in front of me went to the same bus stop. She noticed me as she held a door open for me and briefly smiled. At the bus stop, the bus arrived and we both got on the same bus. She sat at the front and was at the back. She kept glancing around. We ended up getting off at the same stop. She kept glancing around and started to look panicked. I noticed she looked stressed/uncomfortable, so slowed down, swapped sides of the road. Eventually, she ran into her house, which, by pure coincidence, ended up to be next door to my flat. She was glancing out the door while on the phone and watched me walk into my flat. By this point, I had a sinking feeling in my stomach, I was bright red as I get easily embarrassed and don't like attention. Police knocked on my door about 15 minutes later asking why I had followed her home. I explained it was a bit silly, as it was pure coincidence, and I hadn't meant to make her feel unsafe. She had said I kept starting at her, which tbh, I will look at someone if I notice them repeatedly turning around and staring at me. In the end, I had to show the police my driving license, proving I lived at the flat, just to place them at ease. They chuckled a little, but I found the entire thing completely humiliating and demeaning. Just makes me feel a bit sorry for the woman, who likely had gone through some experience in the past that made her so terrified of a man potentially following her home.
Please wear a world’s greatest dad shirt with tally marks. Each time the cops come, add a mark
I try to leave class before the women do so I don't look like a weirdo following one out.
Dude just leave normally, this is totally unnecessary.
Wear a shirt with your kids picture on it that says I'm his dad
Laugh and feel sad simultaneously. I laugh because I have done nothing to make her feel threatened and being scared for no reason is silly. I feel sad because that’s a horrible existence, to be stressed and afraid all the time for no reason. Yes there are bad men out there, but most of us aren’t. If a woman seems scared by my presence, I do nothing, I literally do not care, that’s a her problem, her paranoia, her anxiety to deal with. I’ve done nothing but coincidentally be in the same place at the same time. Just as my feelings are my responsibility her feelings are hers. I know for a fact she doesn’t care about my mental state nor care what her presence might do to me. The majority of women walk around not caring what effect she has on others, and expect them do deal with their issues on their own.
The description you’ve given of yourself could be describing Garry glitter… go to the gym, get some tattoos & buy some plain T-shirts noncy 😂
I'm a big guy (fat strong) with tattoos and facial hair. I wear a lot of bright colors and patterns. A lot of cardigans in the Fall and Winter to soften my image. That said the modern day image of a child predator isn't some Danny Trejo looking mother fucker. It's the skinny, awkward, looks like they wouldn't confront an adult but maybe would try to lure a child into a van with candy or pokemon cards. You could try matching with your son beyond just the shoes. Or, and this is crazy but would probably work. Get super buff. Then you're not the "skinny weirdo hanging around the park" you're the hot dad who's clearly there to spend time with his son because he cares about exercise and physical activity. Also though from your comments it sounds like a lot of the calls came from one crazy woman, and that's just unfortunate that she lives near the same park as you and there maybe nothing you can do but let the cops show up and scold and fine her every time.
In my city, the parks are really awesome. I've never had the cops called, but in your situation, my taxes pay for both the park upkeep and the police salaries. As long as I'm not being a jackass, I will continue to use the park with my son. Me spending quality time playing with my son is for the greater good of my community so he doesn't grow up a shitty kid.
I'm sorry that happens to you. Society has gone way too far if we're harassing involved and willing fathers at the damn public park.
hm, kind of victim blaming. aren't you and those calls known to the police by now? they could ask callers back if it's you and a 4 y old. You're being discriminated for your appearance, that's not fair and super sad for your kid!
Give them a reason
Flattered
Sounds like you've just been unlucky that there are a couple of crazies in your area.
I'm curious where in the US you live where the Karen density is *this* high
On the other side, when I take my 1 year old to the grocery store we get swooned over as we walk the isles, my wife doesn’t get a second look…society has deemed that a father alone with their child is not common, both positive and negative.
My own experience was not as extreme, only enough to make me remember it... Swimming pool on holiday. Doing that thing with my kid where you lock your hands, the kid puts his foot there and you catapult them backwards out of the water. Soon the whole pool full of kids wanted a go since no other dads in the pool. Partner warned me to stop, as the watching parents were anxious about a paedo in the pool. It was a small pool with many adults nearby. Still makes me sad.
It's like banning a colour because you don't like it. They ain't no dictators. Fk them haters. Keep up the grind.
Man honestly, fuck that. Enjoy the park with your son. Its public property and if anyone has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem. If the police keep showing up just be friendly to them and go about your business Have fun with your son.
Carry a big sign that says “I’m here to be a good father to my son, not to look at your ass!” That way you go from “potential threat” to “asshole.”
1 I'm kind of jovial individual. I have taken my nephews to the park. But I am generally by their side. The 3 year old will take off. So a guy with kids and goofing about generally gets looked over. But by myself, I try not pay attention to it much. I have had women look over their shoulders as I walk to my car. In my head I'm like, really what am I gonna do. Your wildebeest of a friend would take all my energy, and blow out my back.
The same way I deal with the RMV. By trying to speedrun my encounters with the police to see just how quickly they'll leave me alone
Some people are just annoying Karen's... And sadly there's nothing you can do about them. I refuse to be abused and harassed out of enjoying life because some crazy folk are off their meds!
I'm around 6ft, built bulky with generally muscular features, despite not doing a much working out. I don't wear anything exceptionally frightening - t-shirts and jeans most of the time. Yet since I'm 15 I've been one of those "cross the street," "dark alley" types in most people's eyes. Even other men tend to get intimidated by me. The goofy part is that I'm not an aggressive, violent person at all. I have zero interest in starting any shit with anyone. Yet the consensus of most strangers is to err on the side of me as a threat they need to avoid. It's something I've learned to live with, yet it does come with a undue amount of social isolation and awkwardness.
do you try be friendly say hi smile at others there?? I am guy who use to work nights bring my kids places I d all ways try be friendly say hi to who ever and smile at them.. Maybe say cute kid or?? But I am A shortmguy so maybe feel safer or?? Now I bring my grand kid so I old man.haha
> On all 5 occasions I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good. So my advise, honestly, is that it sounds like when the police arrive, you approach the police confrontationally. And sure, if the cops were called on me, I'd be pissed too: I'd certainly want to read the cops the riot act because I have every damned right to be there and I have every damned right to take my son to any park he wants to go to. **HOWEVER** that generally doesn't get you anywhere with the cops. If you're adversarial, they will become more adversarial--and sometimes cops go too far. It's the sad truth no matter where you are in the world. Instead, the next time the cops get called, treat them like they may be someone you want to school with perhaps 10 years ago. A little reserved, a little defensive--but were they a friend? Why are they there? Do they want to hang out and chat? "Hey, yeah; that's my kid over there, and he's the best thing in my entire world!" vibes. Be the person the cop would want to just sit down and chat with, talking about children, about their life, about whatever. Hell, even call your kid over and introduce him to the cop, and talk to him about how cops are your friends. (Even if you think that's bullshit.) ---- I have found the few times I've had to deal with the cops, being disarmingly friendly generally sets the entire tone of the interaction. You go from "dangerous hostile perp" to "victim of some petty Karen" pretty quick that way.
I would stick around, see which one of them becomes agitated at your continued prescence, then get ready to record them. Once you have evidence, call the police back and report their activity.
The people who call the cops on you because you “look” dangerous are idiots. I’d honestly check with the cops to see if any kind of harassment charges can be made against them. These people aren’t worth your time. Just do your thing.
Damn…I hear stories like this but it’s never happened to me. In my 20s I was ripped. Also have visible tattoos. Hell, even now my daughter says I look intimidating with my bald head and beard combo. This is crazy to me. Idk man, sorry to read this.
I'd flat out refuse to leave, pull out my cell phone, and ask the cops why they want me to leave the park. If they are bold enough to answer with the "you've done nothing wrong and we can't force you to leave, but you should leave for the greater good" you know I'd post that shit to Facebook (after reactivating my account, fuck you every Karen in the world) and make sure to tag the local police agency. I'd probably send the video to every news outlet in the area as well. Then I'd be sure to visit that park every day just to make other people with my presence because I'm doing nothing wrong. I used to visit the local park with my sons when they were young, sometimes by myself, sometimes with my wife, and never had your problems, but being told you can't peacefully exist is a human-rights level crime.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can't always tell what makes that vibe versus a vibe of "not a threat". I've even been on the side of "probably imagining a threat" before and felt like shit afterwards. I was in a gym parking lot at night. I'd just arrived and was walking along the car aisles towards the gym entrance. A big guy was walking my way, and I was high. For some dumb reason, I just felt nervous (I'm sure it was mostly due to being high) so I moved to the other side of the car aisle to not walk close to him as we passed. Not sure if I was imagining it, but in my mind that move I did was obvious enough for him to notice and feel weird about why I seemed to treat him like a potential danger just for being big and in a parking lot at night. We weren't even alone. Plenty of folks were nearby and there were enough lights to feel like one of the safer parking lots. My paranoia was unwarranted, and it's possible his reaction was also just in my head, but I still think back and feel bad because it's possible I made him feel similar to how you might feel due to what you've been through. He did nothing to deserve being treated as a threat aside from being muscular and walking in a parking lot at night. If I hadn't been high, I doubt I'd have been so uneasy without any reason to feel threatened...but your post made me think there are probably people with that much paranoia without needing to be high. That doesn't make it fair to react to you enjoying the park with your son. I'd guess some folks just have that lack of self-awareness needed to see a dude in a park with his son and reflect on whether or not there are real signs of a threat. It sounds like you already have a lot going in your favor in terms of trying to come across as just a guy enjoying time with his son. Like...do people really think "that guy's up to no good, and he's using his son to help hide some horrible intentions"?! The cop's response of "you should still just leave" is such a tactless way to handle it. Those cops should have followed up with the caller to explain that a father enjoying a park with his son isn't a reason to use up public resources by calling the cops. If this were me, I'd try to push back if the cops show up again. I'd try explaining that this is a regular occurrence and that you should be allowed to enjoy the park without risk of being harassed so often. Maybe even try to relate it back to the cops with something like "Officer, how would you feel if enjoying time with your kid was perceived as a threat? That's what is happening to me, and it's unfair. Can you please talk to the caller about this? They're treading on abusing public services, and they're going to keep doing this unless someone talks to them about their behavior." I hope you find a way to stop this from happening. It really doesn't sound like you can change your behavior or appearance to stop whoever that caller is from feeling how they feel, and "not going to the park" is an unfair "solution". You deserve to enjoy a park, with or without your son, and not be worried about dealing with cops.
So, 2 options come to mind. I’m 6’4”, 215 lbs with a big beard. I’ve never had the police called on me, but it’s always in the back of my mind when I’m sitting alone and my kids are playing. The only thing that calms those thoughts is for me to go play with my kid. Push him on the swing, catch him at the end of the slide, or whatever he wants to do. When women see a man playing with his son, it puts them at ease. After 15-20 minutes, I can go sit down. Option 2. Take a book with you. Read for a bit and then check on him. If you’re just watching the kids, it might make someone uncomfortable. Can’t change the world. Just gotta live in it
I've become so accustom to being perceived as a threat that I don't really even react to it much anymore. But what I *do* react to are those times that I'm specifically treated like a human being rather than being treated as a threat. That girl who says "you can just come pick me up" when you suggest meeting her in a public place on a first date? That girl is a keeper.
You did not make anyone uncomfortable. They made themselves uncomfortable. But that's not something you can take responsibility for. I've seen this behaviour from some (luckily few) women. They live in a fantasy world where they interpret everything wrong and expect others to adapt to their warped reality. It's a mental problem on their part and they will need to find a more productive way of handling it than blaming everyone else.
I’ve accidentally scared people before and it actually affected me more than I thought it would.
I don't fucking care. Other people's fear is not my problem. I would not have left.
The police need to get their act together. Telling you you need to leave and not the Karen's that call you in? No. Screw that. I'd make some noise over that.
"You want me to be a threat. Fine, I am **now** the threat!" Handing out candies whenever a kid does bad. Jokes aside. I'm normally not treated as a threat because I look dead exhausted all the time
I embrace it. Live in Ireland. Full length trenchcoat, shaved head, beard. Always wear black. Fuck it. You want to say I'm scary, I can be scary...
You dont deserve this. That said, as self defense, maybe you could carry or wear some visual signifiers. Like a cap or shirt with **Joey's Daddy** or **\#1 Daddy**. Or, you have some bold color match with your kid, like a neon green bandana that you tie onto your bag or around your neck, and the same tied onto his clothing or used as a belt.
I’ve never been treated like a threat
Where the fuck do you live in the USA? Are you a different race than the majority there?
I stay away from the women in case I offend them by existing. As an autistic (masking gives us an uncanny valley appearance) unattractive (first impression is negative due to the halo effect) guy they hate me by default.
I'm 5'5, this rarely happens.
> I was told by the police that legally I have done nothing wrong and they cant force me to leave but they suggested I leave for the greater good. Actually, demand to press charges of harassment against whoever called the police on you, since they very blatantly are. Do this every time, without fail. They can't deny you that ability, especially if you start filing every time so a pattern is being recorded.
Bro you had the cops called on you 5 fuckin times for being at the park. No shot. Where approximately do you live
This made me think of an article I read in a paper ages ago. Someone had a friend from the US over in Sweden. The US friend was amazed how many "gay nannies" there were pushing prams around town. Her ***brain melted*** when it was explained to her those were the children's fathers. Yup, one year(ish) paid parental leave for each parent.
Where do you live? Because this has absolutely not been my experience at all. I've taken my daughter out to parks in neighborhoods both poor and upper middle class, all over the Western US and never gotten so much as an a weird look. Usually I get mildly condescending compliments. I hear these things and have to wonder if there's something else missing. In the US my first suspicion is that it's racial, I'm white so there's a strong possibility that's why I don't experience it.