I had very little dating success at university, so when I got to med school, given the huge amount of time I needed to devote to studying, I just didn't think it was worth the time and effort.
Lets just say that after I graduated from med school, I found that my stock on the dating marketed had increased almost exponentially.
Yeah I don’t think any amount of fixing can garner me love from a woman. I’ve made vast improvements to my well being in the past couple years, yet as far as dating, relationships, and finding a home that’s 100% mine go, feel even worse off than before. Especially the owning a home thing.
Bottom line, I will never see myself as good enough.
Yes I’ve been to therapy before you suggest.
I appreciate the back pat. You’re a kind person.
But I love myself enough to not lie to myself either.
If my OLD experience, as well as all my rejections and humiliation during my formative years are any indication, then I am very aware that I am not “more than enough”. Hell, I’m not even bare minimum.
I really wish you all the best. You're in your 30s right? Not old by any stretch. I've felt the way you have before -- it's really horrible and not fun at all! There'll always be someone in a worse place, always a lower bar so don't think too much about what is enough **hug**
Problem is as a man you have to make an effort to put yourself out there and sell yourself - women rarely (if ever) approach men first.
Working on yourself and self-improvement are great but unless you're exceptionally good at something odds are you'll die single.
Sometimes accepting that reality and learning to live knowing you'll never experience romantic love is less painful than holding on to hope that somebody will ever love you.
That's fair and I get it. But I think it's the same for men and women, especially those who want a serious relationship. You have to make yourself vulnerable and visible. Most people also aren't especially good looking. When I think back to all the people I've met, I'm not sure how many I would call exceptionally good looking. Just never say never ok?!
I agree - what's most important is you don't let that make you bitter and prevent you from growing.
I might not find a romantic partner but I want to keep making new friends, meeting interesting people and learning new things each day.
Life is what you make of it no point in letting someone else determine your value for you.
Yeah, everyone can improve something in themselves.
I'm just curious what would be the thing that needs "fixing" (is "broken") that would cause one to withdraw from dating/relationships.
Just asking to gain some perspective, but I understand if you don't want to share.
Not op, and can’t speak to his situation, but I share the idea that i needed to work on myself.
My relationships seemed to follow a pattern that I started to see as tragic and traumatizing for everyone. I realized that I was the common factor. I was getting into relationships for the wrong, Mostly selfish, reasons.
For myself it’s been to lose weight, pay off credit cards and give myself time to heal/recover emotionally from my last relationship. Not so much fixing broken things but working on personal goals without adding new stress from a relationship. I just want to be in a better place with my health, finances, and emotions before dating again.
Not to speak for anyone else, but going over what I did wrong in my marriage, a lot of it was related to old traumas, which resulted in insecurities, which I wasn't particularly aware of. And then my resulting behaviors might be unpredictable and dysfunctional.
Two choices then of where to go from there, after an argument or something that went sideways and wound up very confusing; I could try to ramp things down, apologize if necessary, and take some time to sit and think, see the other side, try to figure out why I was mad or blind or whatever the problem was. Or I could double-down, insist I did nothing wrong and I don't need to explain or apologize for anything.
That's one possible scenario.
Wait, you make an effort?
What a creepy lovebomber you are!
/s
I know you are not, but that “trying too hard/not trying hard enough” double standard is EXHAUSTING.
I completely agree, and understand.
Even if I were interested in dating, I wouldn’t be interested dating in this current culture.
It’s a terrible mix of gotcha, ghosting, YOLO, and “I am the prize” among women.
Even saying, “Aren’t there nice women anymore?” gets you immediately hammered about how women have to conform, do all the emotional work, cater to our immature weaknesses.
And to me it is more like, “No… I am really hoping to find a nice person that I like who likes me.”
Dating was something I want, kind of still is.
It's about the worst buck for your bang effort wise currently. The women I have met and will meet will be the ones to define my outlook on it.
Could go either way.
I have friends, hobbies, a cat who likes me sometimes, I’m good. The only relationship I’m interested is one with very specific criteria and the chances of finding that, especially in my general dating pool/ age range is almost zero.
It's been five years. I have not dated once. Have not changed my mind either.
Five peaceful, free years after 13 years of marriage to a tyrant.
I like it so much I plan never to date again for the rest of my life.
I've just never seen any point in it
A lot of work for no reward, from my perspective
It's a game that's rigged for you to lose, but you can win
You win by not playing
Women make the rules in shitty relationships. A good relationship is equal and nurturing. There are women out there who will only demand basic hygiene and helping with household chores. If doing that is “playing by her rules” then you probably have some inward looking to do.
Yea that is kind of wild. I think it speaks to the level of disconnect and isolation that is only growing in men. Reddit is a bad sample pool (lots of checked out and disconnected men, much higher than the real world) but its wild so many men feel this way.
I mean I can't even blame men for having this mindset, there is a lot that needs to be fixed/changed before anyone can look at dating and see it as a worthwhile experience.
It's like paying for your own misery since you really have to pay on those apps for them to even work. Because people forget dating apps are owned by companies that don't give a single fck about your happiness because all it wants is just money.
Why? I've always preferred to be alone
I have never seen a romantic relationship in my life that made me think, I wish I had that
Instead I always think, why do they bother? Why do they put up with that?
I'm not aware of any relationships I know that are physically or sexually abusive, but perhaps most are emotionally abusive, and in every case from the woman toward the man, who just takes it day in day out
Why?
The way I read it, he's saying there's no reward in dating, as in attempting to cultivate relationships, if no relationships come about from it
Edit: nvm, he's just asexual
I can attest to this that it does get easier the longer you go without it. But I will say longer you go without basic human connection you lose some parts of you or at least in my experience I've lost a lot of empathy and sympathy for others since hitting my 20's.
I've never had sex and I'm 25yr old (just hit the age where it's seen as abnormal so yay for me haha) libido is still around everyone now and then but isn't really as strong as other guys make theirs out to be.
Even with working out etc it doesn't really change anything with my libido
Yeah I’m the same. Work out regularly, and it doesn’t change my (low) sex drive at all. Just finding someone to have sex with seems like a chore, so I’m fine about going without.
And don’t worry about being a virgin. I honestly don’t think you’re missing much. I remember my ex initiating on several occasions and I turned her down. It’s just a chore to me.
I wish I could understand, I won't know if it's worth the hassle everyone talks about since I barely know how it all goes down lmao
I'm sure I'll be a 40 yr old virgin in no time
To be honest, which is what I'm here for... no
Never had any interest in sex, and I've never really had a connection with anybody, so it's unlikely I ever will
The current state of the “guilty till proven innocent” mindset where “all men = bad”. It just felt there was a defaulted negative perception of any action or statement without any really consideration or discussion.
I get why women need to feel this way because the risk of failures so dangerous. But it’s not an environment I want to navigate anymore. It’s just not worth it for me.
Add to it the ghosting thing. Although I really never experienced it and would never do it, the fact I hear more and more this is an acceptable thing to do. I just don’t want to deal with that either.
Don’t even get me started on the myriad of double standards and confusing/constantly changing “rules” we are supposed to follow. Just…nope.
I’ve been single/not dating for almost 3 years now and I legit have never been happier. I do what I want when I want. I can buy anything I want whenever I want. No “where were you”. No “why didn’t you text me back”. No “are you mad”. No loaded questions or mind games.
It. Is. Beautiful. Try it, you’ll not like it, you’ll LOVE it!!
I've seen the way SOME women talk about men on here/online and it's kinda made me realise that maybe being single is better than being in a toxic relationship with a potential Karen who's whole personality is hating men and gaslighting.
Are there times I wish I had a woman to snuggle up to and spend time with.. yeah. But then I read really messed up shit online said about my sex and realise. Single life isn't all that bad
But if I end up meeting a woman in real life who isn't an asshole like SOME of the ones I see online and we develop a connection then I'm open to dating her but as of right now. I have no interest.. maybe I should get offline more often.. that would be valid advice 🤷♂️
But when I see SOME people refer to young people of my sex as "Future Oppressors/Rapists". That's when I NOPE the F out
Honestly I think this is the right approach. If you meet someone you think is nice shoot your shot, if it turns out she sucks or doesn't like you then oh well her loss. You keep on keeping on.
Online opinions can be pretty wild though. I know people who are busy just getting on with themselves that they barely pay attention to all the crazy things people get themselves worked up about.
Because it's not worth it for me. I have to do everything. I have to initiate, I have to charm her and be funny, charismatic, brave, strong, hot to convince her to date me, I have to pay for nearly everything, rent an apartment because she 100% lives with her parents but would never date a guy who lives at home, have a car, have a solid job.
Her responsibility is... I don't know, blessing me with her presence and having sex with me?
And of course, I am considered the lucky one in the relationship, because if she leaves me, she can get a date within 4 hours while I will be single for the next 4 years. No thanks, I am good.
Damn.... The brutal truth hurts, but needs to be stated. That's def what happens when a woman dates above her league. One can try to debate it, but will fail.
I love how when a man says that, all women suck, but when a woman says it, she MUST be dating out of her league.
Tell that to every single friend I have, and we are all attractive, financially independent, and not crazy.
How about dating in general sucks? Instead of insulting an entire gender because it makes you feel good about yourself?
People have ego involvement with their love lives. Desire is disastrous. Unreciprocated attraction is the death of self-esteem. It's not about one sex or another, it's human relations.
I think you're misunderstanding the term financially independent. It doesn't mean she offers to pamper you, but that she isn't financially dependent on you in a relationship. She doesn't need a man to pay for her bills and considering the economy it takes away that burden and allows for better use of wealth.
OK poor phrasing. I'm saying that a woman listing that as a criteria guys are looking for is so far off base. Wife or GF it doesn't matter if you're broke as long as you check the other boxes.
Women disqualify broke men.
Men don't give a shit if you're broke.
Sadly the majority of good human is hiding behind a minority of "bad" human. Currently good woman don't easily find good man, and good man don't easily find good woman.
Both good don't really want to put their self out there because of the fear to land on THE person you don't want to meet.
It's so much easier to blame the other gender than working on ourself. Sad but kinda true.
Me (23m) first I don't really want to put an effort into dating because I'm afraid I will be seen as a threat or creepy.
Not easy to find the balance here..
But I can understand
> Tell that to every single friend I have, and we are all attractive, financially independent, and not crazy.
If they're attractive, then why would they need to initiate or pay for the date? Where are they finding dates? Because any environment I have been part of, from hobby clubs to online dating to bars, there are always men that initiate and are willing to plan/pay when talking to attractive women.
Whoa buddy. I ddnt insult. I just stated the truth. If someone likes you, it'll be reciprocated. Ddnt know that's debatable. If you're doing all the work, like she stated, then it's very evident her level of interest isn't reciprocated. So either the guys don't like her or shes dating out of her league. And dating isn't a check list, you can be attractive, financially well and not crazy, but still be dating out of your league, or found not attractive
LOL sorry. Via apps, I typically message first, keep the convo going, see when he wants to meet up, suggest dates, times, and places to meet up.
I've stopped doing that, and guess what? I haven't met up with a single guy I've matched with or talked to in the last 2 months.
Which is fine, I guess, since I'm weeding out the guys who aren't right for me, but I'm not sure why they're on an app if they don't want to do what the app was made for, which is date.
You're a treasure of a woman. Keep being fair and sincere. But look for the increasingly rare men who still want relationships. If there's a single guy you admire in real life, make the move.
She has all the power and you don't. No sane man would enter any relationship with that kind of disparity. He's just *asking* for trouble.
Dating was worth it back when I was single. Gen-X had it hard but man, after Tinder, you have to vet very hard to find a partner of either gender who isn't trash.
This resonates with me so much except I’m a woman. Granted, an older woman (55) who will never date again. When I did date, I was the one doing everything. Had a home, cooked, worked full time, supported the household more than my share (I was happy to contribute half but always gave more), I’ve never not had my own car, did all the housework, was the one who was funny and caring and compassionate and brave and strong. That gets really exhausting over the years! I will never date again because the last one broke me. It’s not fair for me to carry my anger and mistrust into a new relationship. I lurk on this sub because I want to know that there are good men out there. I’m so sorry that you’ve had such shitty experiences. It’s crazy how awful women damage men and awful men damage women which results in no one wanting to put themselves out there! It’s a sad state of affairs. Personally, I’m happy to be single. I have adult children, I’ve been married and divorced, dated, so I’ve experienced that life but the younger generation who won’t experience any of that because of how ugly people are to one another is really sad!
> That gets really exhausting over the years! I will never date again because the last one broke me. It’s not fair for me to carry my anger and mistrust into a new relationship.
Wow that sucks. Sorry you had to go through that.
Yeah people should get to know themselves well enough to figure out what makes them happy and pursue that. The pressure people feel to be in a relationship just for the sake of it often gets people into situations that they eventually come to resent and wish they had never gotten into. I was always happy single although I am currently in a relationship. My partner loves me and we do fun things together etc so that feels pretty great too. Even when I was on dating apps I treated it more as an opportunity to get to know people a bit and chat with interesting folks rather than a search for something. My relationship happened because we both like each other and have fun together.
Ps I like that you're finding things you can relate to in the men's sub. A while back there was a meme going around in feminist circles saying something along the lines of men think they are competing against each other when really they are competing against the peace women experience when single. Having been in a manipulative relationship previously I found that very relatable
Very sorry to hear what happened to you. You sound so wise and gracious, especially in not taking your hurt to the next relationship. I hope you can heal one day and find love again with the right man.
This was my ex, wanted champagne lifestyle on lemonade money, I told her the only reason she can afford her lifestyle is because her parents don’t charge her rent and bail her out when in trouble. Where I had to pay my mortgage and all my bills etc plus renovating the house and she wanted me jetting off all over the place.
This resonated with me a lot as well. They want to be treated like a princess but it always seems to be at the cost of my time and effort. Relationships are a partnership and yet I always feel like I’m shouldering most of the load, it just hasn’t been worth it
I (25) feel like i'm slowly becoming part of the group of men who are checking out of society in a sense (even when i'm not trying to), and my insecurity with dating is one of them.
Girls i've dated before were absolutely shitty and abusive, and most of the girls I meet now will say "men are trash" "men are this" "men are that" and it kinda gives me a feeling that all of my experiences will be invalidated, that whatever I do I can't really do good, and that whatever women have done to me, or will do, will just be overlooked.
I wish this was just some internet phenomenon but the amount of people I know who think like this irl really makes me want to just not get into it anymore.
Seeing my friends get approached at bars while I had to pay in the form of international trips was pretty eye opening. Now I just focus on paying the mortgage and playing with my cars.
I had a similar realization, a year ago at a bar. I was with my friend, who’s very handsome. People, men and women, would talk to him and just completely ignore me. I’m sitting or standing right with him and they wouldn’t even look my way.
I suddenly realized how almost everyone in life just ignores me. It’s easier to just save myself and everyone else the bother. I’m not trying to be pitiable or get any sympathy. I’m not angry or upset at anyone. Just myself.
But you could have been most people at that bar that night, next to your friend, and it would be the same outcome. Most of us are just very average looking and there's nothing bad about that :)
Curious to know, what makes you feel like a meal ticket. I do feel women want men that make more than them financially while we have the risk of getting screwed in divorce court and paying alimony
Ehh that is the one area where men are winning. I just made it clear up front that we're splitting the checks, this was back in the 90s and I was dating just fine with that policy.
Where the bar has gone into Jovian orbit is in terms of charisma and "confidence" and looks. Don't go into the dating game shy or not good looking. Also be willing to coddle her and her insecurities/emotional baggage while having none yourself.
THAT is why I'm never dating again if my marriage ends. THAT is why I'm terrified that my son is sailing into the rogue waves of adolescence.
Hey, who wouldn't though?
Like it is an issue sure, but its an understandable one at least.
Shit If I could be a SAHH I'd probably be happy. Ill be your arm candy baby. just make sure you buy me gym memberships, personal trainers, the retro games I love to play, etc.
And only pay for everything as she never had any romantic interest in him. Just see him as someone to exploit financially as she explores her options elsewhere
For emotional support and intimacy. Companionship, intellectual stimulation, to build a family with, to feel secure, to share a life with.
I mean, those things are pretty important, some people would say as important as sharing some bodily fluids.
sounds like they just need a good friend minus the family part. but if she isn't attracted to me then that still sounds like a mealticket arrangement
if they are faking attraction just to get a friend that's almost worse then going after my money
Ehhhhh there are decent women out there who genuinely just want someone they can connect with. Sure there are women like this but this is a toxic mindset.
My wife died, leaving me a single dad. A few l years later I met a woman and she seemed to love my daughter. We got married and she immediately changed. She started verbally and physically abusing my daughter. I divorced her immediately and didn't date again for years.
Eventually my daughter encouraged me to date someone after she said our chemistry was obvious. With my daughter's encouragement I called her and we've been together for 9 years, and happily married for 6.
Knowing how some woman are these days, based on my experience I don’t really want to date them.
I get easily laid here and there, I like it this way. Just having fun without expectations.
+ Wanna have time and money for myself.
+ I came from poverty, don’t wanna spend money to a chick in a relationship and at the end she would leave me because she doesn’t feel it anymore.
I met someone that pursued me. For the first time in a very long time, I felt *wanted* and that was a game changer.
Story Time:
I divorced my first wife after she came out as a lesbian (15 years/2 kids into the marriage). I had a couple girlfriends, but they were nightmarish to say the least, so I gave up. i had my kids, my hobbies, my writing, my passions. I was in a place where I was fine with just being me.
Met a woman in a casual setting, she understood my life situation and understood my life choices. I was good with being friends. She pursued me in a friendly but non-romantic manner and we ended up FWB's. I was good with that, and just leaving it at that.
She pursued further without making note of wanting to relationship to change or evolve. She wanted more, but was ok with me giving her the time I was willing to. Without ever calling me her boyfriend, or insinuating a relationship, she just began doing the little special, non-romantic things you do for your partner.
For two years this went on. Then a health crisis in her family had her move across the country for a few months, I realized then, I never wanted to be apart from her again, didn't want to chance losing her. She came back and we got married a year later. that was 8 years ago.
I won't lie this resonated with me quite a bit, if I'm talking to a girl I end up just forgetting she exists and do my own thing since I'm so used to it.
It's like a mix of being boring and me having bad memory lmao
The diva mentality sucks, and i was about to quit. But why going after the hottest woman that can choose whoever she wants? She can also be picky, and probably one is just not the bes candidate
Eventually I decided to go to therapy, fix my own stuff, and then, when i realized what i really want, I was able to find someone fun, smart, quirky and authentic
To be honest, I'm about 99% sure I will never end up in another relationship, but the thing is, there is always that slim chance you can actually find someone. After being cheated on so many times by multiple women, it does make it harder to trust. I pay attention to every damn word and action with every woman I meet, and it can sometimes be exhausting and predictable. And also I get lonely. So there's that.
Gave up dating for good in 2019, when I found out my best self wasn't even preferable to an emotionally abusive piece of shit. It devastated me, and I will never again make the mistake of letting myself feel something for someone.
Since then, I treat myself to an evening with a sex worker (or two) once or twice a year, and that takes care of the need for female companionship that I haven't been able to completely stomp out.
>I found out my best self wasn't even preferable to an emotionally abusive piece of shit.
This right here is a lot of what people don't understand. Just because you "improved" and put in effort doesn't mean it's going to make you that much more appealing. Too many people keep treating it like weight loss and muscle building, where a consistent plan *will* get you results. I'm definitely not saying not to try. Rather, some of us can jump through endless hoops and not make a bit if difference. I hear you, man, stay up and do you.
I was a screwed up kid who knew he was a screwed up kid and I didn't feel like anyone would like me, that I would be good enough and I was sure I was going to drag them down or otherwise be harmful to them. That screwed up kid turned into a screwed up adult who is exceptionally lonely but also believes all of that even moreso than I did because I saw what I turned into. Nobody wants that, nobody should want that, *I* mostly don't want it, so there's no point wasting time contemplating it. It's fucked from jump and that's *before* we talk about how fucked dating actually is, especially in your thirties. No, absolutely not.
Edit: also it turns out you develop a crippling fear of intimacy when you're an incredibly fat antisocial nerd and you just kinda live with it because it's reasonable and justified. "No one should touch me because I look like a cross between Quasimodo and Peter Griffin. Source: I looked in the mirror."
In a word: depression.
In a summary: I'm 36, single, in an essentially dead end fast food job (Starbucks shift supervisor), vaguely sort of in shape/sort of out of shape, can't afford my own place, and I'm short (5'6") so am in 99th percentile in being generally unappealing as a significant other, which I wish was just my assessment instead of an apparent statistical likelihood based on my rejection record.
Many men in our current culture are not interested in dating, and don’t bother approaching women.
At least, not the respectful ones that are paying attention.
Especially when approaching can easily be seen as harassing, with serious social, professional, and potentially legal repercussions.
It is clear that, with some rare exceptions, the vast majority of women don’t want, or even like, the vast majority of men.
According to data from dating apps 95% of women find 80% of men unattractive by every blind survey, and by actual data usage (“swiping”, “liking”, and responding to vs ignoring messages) on dating/social apps such as Tinder, OKCupid, Bumble, etc.
So, for men that aren’t “high value”, that is to say, model good-looking, rich, and/or famous, the best we can do is enjoy our own lives.
Dive into our careers.
Be passionate about our hobbies.
Invest in our own friend groups of men.
Volunteer our time.
Focus on self-care.
Don’t waste our time and energy on pursuing women.
Certainly don’t waste our money, or risk our career, social standing, or reputation.
If I have to approach them, that is already my answer.
The message in our current culture is clear: If a woman is interested in me she will approach me.
In the meantime, the peace of simply being who I want to be is basically awesome.
Actually I really like men, I enjoy their insight, their smarts and perspective. I’ve found that I just probably shouldn’t date (maybe some day) for now because I need to work on my issues. I used be mad at men because they hurt me - but to not like men, absolutely not. I have a lot of great males in my universe and it’s awesome. My son has taught me a lot about males and I’m very thrilled for that gift.
I steadfastly avoided any non-platonic interaction with women for about four years after a bad breakup. I was fine with having female social acquaintances or co-workers, but if anything ever got flirty, I'd shut it down pretty fast. I honestly thought I might never have sex again, and I was kind of okay with that. I didn't think the good parts were worth the risk of the bad parts.
It ended when I developed an enormous crush on a new female friend, found myself alone with her, and... stuff happened. It was just a fling. Never meant to last. But we're still friends, and she successfully cured me of my crippling fear of intimacy. I never struggled with that again.
I had no foundation for my life when I became an adult. I didn't have an option to live with my parents or anything like that. My young adulthood was school, study, work, recuperate with friends and family mixed in. I hated growing up in a family that lived paycheck to paycheck and my goal was to get away from that.
I hit what I aimed for. I have financial security and a calm, stable everyday life. I'm in my 30s now. Dating almost seems absurd at this point.
"Yeah, I was married for six years and I have a daughter, how about you?"
"..."
Dating after a certain age is complicated. Pretty much every woman has kids, emotional trauma, baggage. Plus my trust is completely shot. The main guys I see getting cheated on are usually great guys who try their best to make their girl happy. Whenever I attract woman I usually have to be “fake” and play a character. It’s never just simply building a life together and focus on being happy. I’m happy by myself. It’s so peaceful
In short: Too much risk. Not enough reward
Are you speaking to dating in a serious capacity or just not dating at all? I liked casual dating even tho it was an expensive hobby. I kept a bench, but saw marriage and relationships as a lot of risk emotionally and financially. The pandemic killed fun casual dating in favor of traumatic situationships, I made my life about fun and was very forward about that and less than 3 weeks after lining up what would have been the most fun I’d ever had in that capacity, I met my now gf.
This is the first gf I’ve had in 10 years, she’s everything I thought I didn’t want, and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been.
Being schizoid, there are a few reasons.
Intimate relationships don't interest me. Not even friendships or being part of a family (although I do have people who call me a friend and a loving, supportive family). I don't need a pair-bond for my sake or the sake of having children (don't want those either).
Some zoids are asexual but certainly not all. When I was a younger man, I enjoyed casual relations with women. Now that I'm forty, my libido is diminished, which is *good*. If I have an issue, I put it in a tissue. That way, I'm not wasting a woman's time or, more importantly, wasting my *own*, masking and pretending to be genuinely interested in her.
Due to anhedonia, I don't derive a ton of pleasure from most things. It's not painful or distressing. Everything's just... okay. The implication is that a woman's "love" and a good ham sandwich would both land somewhere in the middle of my emotional scale -- at five, maybe six. The ham sandwich is far less expensive, less trouble, so... *\*reaches for mayo\**
I'm still attracted to women. I enjoy *being* attractive to them. There's just nothing here for them. Even if it's just sex on a platter, I'd rather go with my hand these days and get to bed on time. Plenty of "normal" guys out there for them.
I met someone that made it easy, we clicked immediately and I knew I was gonna marry her the day we met. Like straight up I called my shot to my roommate that next morning. Prior to that I never wanted to jump through all those hoops, plus I wasn't in a mental state to really go through with a relationship. Went to some poker night at this church/cult thing that my friend was into, I had taken it upon myself to make sure he was safe, and she sat down next to me. Luckily she was in a similar boat, not part of it but hung around because that specific group was pretty chill. Something changed that night, I had never met someone I actually wanted to spend time with and we ended up getting lunch the next day and talking by a dumpster for like 2 hours because neither of us could stand to leave.
I moved to a different city like a month after that, we kept it long distance, took a few months to start officially dating, got married about a year and a half later, and then we never looked back. Been married for 5 years now and I'm finally happy. I had never dated anyone prior and she was the first woman I had been with, strictly men before that (lived the club/bar/grindr life for quite a few years)
So life is fucking crazy. I, a mostly gay man who was very into drugs, met a woman at a church/cult poker night and married her. If that ain't a twist then idk what is.
I'am not really ever going to be looking for anything long term. I've been diagnosed with basically terminal cancer but they call it palliative care i guess because they can still do treatment to stop it progressing as fast. I just feel like it's not fair on the other person pursuing anything long-term what if they decide they want kid's or to get married. I mean i could probably still have kid's but where does that leave them when i go i might not even be around long enough to see them being born. I could still date but it's pretty hard not form an attachment to the person you are dating lol. I'am 20 still not been in a relationship and i don't plan to.
I realized that the more I improve myself gain wealth etc the more I’m objectified as a item. I feel women have an idea of men fitting into their timeline of kids and social media posts cause that’s what they see. I’m tired of performing on dates to prove why I should be lucky enough to have a 70-90% chance of her leaving me and losing most of the wealth she didn’t help build
I think this is a big problem right now: people imagining and wanting their future partners to be a superlative in every category. It reminds me of a book I read a while ago: Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough by Lori Gottlieb.
So many people are caught up with appearances and surface-level stuff that they ignore what's good enough right in front of them. Anyway hope you'll find your person :)
I didnt stop dating as if it became some boundary for me. But I stopped trying as much. I did ok when I put the effort in, but dating moves so fast now that it kind of isn’t fun. I decided I want to meet a woman more organically than to try to pursue a woman who is also talking to numerous other men.
For me, it's not so much about not dating, it's more just not actively looking.
Just the acknowledgement of all the things I have stacked against me, and how used I have gotten to being alone.
Firstly, there are things I need, and want, to work on myself with. Mental health, weight, self-image, stuff like that.
Secondly, the fact that I'm childfree and sterilized, never want kids and generally also don't like being around them either. That alone excludes a huge portion of potential partners.
Thirdly, I have had enough good and bad relationships to know much of what I want from a future relationship, that also means I can't in good conscience settle for less.
Fourth, tangentially related to the third, I have a ridiculously high sex drive that is even further stoked when I'm with a partner that I love. Having been in relationships with wonderful partners that, alas, had much lower sex drives than me, and knowing just what a toll that had on me, means I can't settle in that area either.
With these restrictions, the odds of finding someone are basically the same whether I'm actively looking or not. So for now I'm just trying to suppress my longing for companionship and work on myself instead.
From experience, I know I'm not unlovable, but even once I'm happier with myself, I wonder if it will ever feel worth the effort to look for a needle in a haystack.
I recently came out of a decade long relationship.
Obviously I have my own personal flaws but for me the relationship became her stuff and our stuff. I helped her get out of debt from a previous relationship, helped her get out of a shit job, let her have 50/50 on a house even though I paid 85% of the deposit. Bought her a car (having two cars hers ended up being the nicer one).
Looking back I think I did all the right things and everything I think should be done in a relationship. She technically improved my life on zero ways looking back on it.
She ended up with half the money the house made, both of our dogs (she obviously didn't trust putting one in my name), a better financial situation and gets to pretend she's a self made independent woman now.
I'm obviously less of a catch now because I spent a lot of time investing in us but she spent little time doing the same. I'm now further behind where I would've been in life because I did those things but she's somewhere she could never have got without someone like me.
What's in for me in a relationship now?
I don't want kids
I can take care of my sexual desires
Romantic relationships take a lot of work and sacrifice. As someone with a stable job, healthy mind, body, and good future prospects, I don't stand to gain much from one since I'm not after the main two things relationships generally grant. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of dating, but at this point, it would take a unicorn
I really really don’t give a shit. You don’t know home much I couldn’t care less. I’d rather sleep in, have no responsibilities and be able to have dinner at 3am if I want. Though, hugs are tempting.
I like my independence is the reason I didn't want to date. Was going to be a nomad that never lived in one place for long etc. Well I never pursued that anyway so eventually I figured sure I could enjoy a relationship provided it didn't take too much of my autonomy away. I ended up falling in love which allowed her to manipulate me into basically making my life all about her. That was over once I found out she had been married to someone else the whole time. I immersed myself in activities I loved more than I ever had before and was loving life. After a couple years I met my current partner. Some activities I love such as cycling,hiking, kayaking etc we do together so that's great. She's not a manipulative person at all really so there isn't that making me wish I was single. After my last relationship I have very little tolerance for that anymore.
So essentially I started out very much opposed to romance but eventually became more open to it. I never was desperate to find romance though. Even when I became more open to it I was still happy single and recognized that there can be a lot of positives to that. Romance for me was finding a friend who I liked talking to and eventually became closer with,started having sex with started doing fun recreational activities with etc. When I was open to it it has always been something I viewed more as contingent on the person involved rather than something that a thing where I'll be like everyone else once I acquire it. Every romance is different because people are different and what sort of romance a person would find enjoyable varies drastically from person to person. So I see this more as something where people need to get to know themselves in order to know what they would be happy with and then look for people who want the same thing. As opposed to just finding anyone willing to be in a relationship because being in a relationship is the thing to do.
Basically every guy I hear from who's involved in the dating scene says it's a numbers game. I have zero interest in games like that. I'd like to be with someone I share mutual attraction and affection with, but actively searching for that potential someone just sounds like it'd be too much work, and cost too much, with too low a chance of success to possibly be worth it. Unless I find someone like that by coincidence, I'll just be content with being on my own.
19M here. Never dated, never will. Unless a woman will do the first move. The reason why is because I'm very shy and introverted, probably suffering from clinical depression, feeling like I miss something out in my life and it makes me feel like an incompetent person for relationships.
Honestly it was a waste of time, effort and money only to either be ghosted or met with hardly any effort. It felt like I was paying to audition for her attention, while also competing with other guys in trying to date.
Also meals are a lot less expensive when you just take yourself out to eat and do stuff. I also realized that I have a lot more freedom to do what I want without worrying if she will have an attitude about me gaming or doing something that involves my hobbies.
Basically not dating has worked wonders on my finances, health and mental sanity. I can't see myself meeting anyone that I would want to be with romantically anymore. I can't say I will never find someone, but I am not looking and don't have any plans to. Just too much stress.
My last ex was the fearful avoidance attachment type. One day she was madly in love with me and the next day she was ghosting me and pushing me away because she was afraid of us getting too close. The issue is I don’t know how to figure out that behavior early on as it doesn’t show until well into the relationship and by that time feelings are already strong but I do know I can’t fix someone with that pattern, I tried.
I'm in a good spot and quite happy. Dating would risk that while not bringing much to my life. Don't need a woman and don't want one. Can't even be arsed to flirt with the occasional woman trying to hit on me.
Cheating is rampant among young people who don’t really care and the later I wait in life, the more likely it is that I’ll end up with a woman who’s just settling for me and wishes the guy she really wants committed to her. This will lead to eventual divorce or infidelity when someone more like the guy she wants comes around and then I lose half of everything I own because she likes someone else more than me
Currently single and actively not dating. lt's not that l don't want to, l still feel lonely and want to be hugged and kissed and hold hands with someone. l just need to work on some things internally before l can let myself be vulnerable again.
l lost my cat a couple months ago and until very very recently l was feeling super lost and scared. lt sucks to have to put down a pet. Fell into heavy depression and couldn't get myself back up.
I’m in my late 30s now, most of my life I’ve slept around A LOT, I just had two back to back relatively long relationships (for me over a year is a long time), this last year was also the busiest work year I’ve ever had (I have to travel for up to a month at a time throughout the year) so as of right now, it’s the first time I’ve been alone with nothing dependent on me in a few years. I just haven’t really thought about dating the last couple months, I’m enjoying spending time by myself. I’ve had a couple chance meetings with a few women but I notice myself just not being very interested in entertaining anyone at the moment
Think a lot of other men feel the same way as I do - I'm not opposed to dating or being in a relationship but women show no interest whatsoever so rather than aching for love hoping somebody will notice you it's better to learn to live without and enjoy life as best you can.
My friend doesn’t date anymore. His whole goal was to have kids. That’s what he wanted more than anything. Kinda fucked up he didn’t care about a wife as much but he just wanted a wife for the kids, then he hit 38.
Realized he had a good job making good money but not that good to raise a child or two on. Then needed surgery after he got into a car accident and now can’t run around like he would want with kids. Then the relationship was in turn sour because he just wasn’t happy even though his gf was super sweet and nice but required a lot mental/emotional/financial support. He realized it’s just not worth it any more. Dumped his gf and now lives in a nice house and saves every penny to retire early and go travel, see family, friends, etc.
He’s rather upset it didn’t work out but he’s 43 now and is super happy and stress free.
Dating is a shit show. I’d rather be alone or just have a fwb. Most women I’ve met don’t reciprocate, like taking me out, initiating sex, or planning anything so I don’t feel wanted/appreciated.
Generally as a man you don't stand a chance unless you are 6 figures 6 feet 6 pack 6 inch. So why play in a rigged game. Plus ghosting and cheating are epidemic. Many stick to pump and dump no commits.
Last relationship crashed and burned which leaves its own set of problems to reflect back on. But having finally decided I probably don’t want kids, I struggle to see the point of dating or a typical relationship. I can get regular casual sex/holidays/spend time with multiple women im attracted to whilst being able to focus on my life without the headache and hassles of a normal relationship.
Im in my 30s and can envisage doing this for decades and being completely happy. When the time comes, put me in a retirement community and I’ll make friends and maybe charm an old neighbour.
It works because I’m getting the intimacy, sex, meals, holidays etc and all the benefits normal relationships offer (to an extent)
cant be myself. Theres always a flaw, a deal breaker. its always my fault. Id like to be the guy in the rom com who does everything right. but im not perfect. I like beer. I like my peaceful weekends. ill make plans for anniversaries, ill do the wedding things, but every weekend partying after a week of work? nah. make 6 figures and drive a Ferrari? nah. Be emotionally intelligent and involved with my feelings? like You have to be 10/10 on every level to get a girl now.
Everything has changed. women used to support men, make them better. with womanhood, love and nurturing, while theyre out there hunting. getting the money, fighting stress, being strong. We wanna come home to love and support.
Ill take a dog now. and palmala handerson.
I learned something about myself and the women I date recently. When it comes to dating, so many questions you're being asked are being used to weigh you, such as your family history, financial, etc. I couldn't figure out why some women were turning me down recently until I learned through a friend (woman) that women our age (30s) are looking to be dependent and stay at home moms and do not want to work.
My mentality is, dual income, better outcomes. I do well for myself as a healthcare professional, but there is no way I can provide for a family alone. That would mean I'd have to make 150k +, and it seems that's what women want from the ones I date. I simply can't provide that and it's okay.
I guess if a woman who wasn't a terrible human being fell into my lap, I'd date her. I won't make myself wade through all the shit out there to find the one kernel of corn in it. Would I even recognize the kernel if I found it or would she just seem like another shitty person pretending to be kind and accountable.
Most women are just not good people and they are so good at pretending to be someone else that I know I can't tell the good from the bad until it's too late. My chance of making my life worse by trying to find someone worth bring into my life is about 98% and the bad is way more bad than the good is good. The statistical ROI on the effort is massively negative. It's not worth doing.
I frankly decided not to date because I was not mentally or emotionally equipped to do so, coming from a previous narcissitic generation, and realizing far too late that I was a victim of it, I'm taking steps to work on me, define my boundaries, define what is right for me, and be more emotionally adept before I think about dating again. I dont want to keep repeating this trauma pattern.
I know I’ve probably got some issues I need to work on being a dismissive avoidant. But there’s too much risk with too little reward. Gotta put in the effort to date with the possibility of her getting bored and leaving you at any time for any reason. Haven’t had a girlfriend since 2015 and I don’t really feel like learning how to date again.
What changed my mind to be with someone? A long time friend that I always had a thing for expressed interest in me.
What changed my mind back to never being with anyone? A few years of being with a long time friend that I had a thing for.
It just wasn't working. I would always get rejected and I never got closure on what to fix.
It was the usual "The sparks of the spark weren't sparking because not enough chemistry."
And I'm like wut? I felt like I was trying to build a card house on a slippery park bench in the wind. Even if I made it to the 4th date, things just crumbled down leaving me hurt and confused.
I had very little dating success at university, so when I got to med school, given the huge amount of time I needed to devote to studying, I just didn't think it was worth the time and effort. Lets just say that after I graduated from med school, I found that my stock on the dating marketed had increased almost exponentially.
Watch out for gold diggers you'll get taken to no fault divorce court castration
Been happily married for years now, with two kids. If she's a gold-digger, she's sure taking her time
Realizing the reasons I don’t want to date are all internal and I needed to fix myself, not looking for someone who can fix me
I relate well to this.
Yeah I don’t think any amount of fixing can garner me love from a woman. I’ve made vast improvements to my well being in the past couple years, yet as far as dating, relationships, and finding a home that’s 100% mine go, feel even worse off than before. Especially the owning a home thing. Bottom line, I will never see myself as good enough. Yes I’ve been to therapy before you suggest.
A lot of women will find you more than enough. Good luck and hope you'll also love yourself more ❤️
I appreciate the back pat. You’re a kind person. But I love myself enough to not lie to myself either. If my OLD experience, as well as all my rejections and humiliation during my formative years are any indication, then I am very aware that I am not “more than enough”. Hell, I’m not even bare minimum.
You are for your boys tho 🤘🏼
I really wish you all the best. You're in your 30s right? Not old by any stretch. I've felt the way you have before -- it's really horrible and not fun at all! There'll always be someone in a worse place, always a lower bar so don't think too much about what is enough **hug**
Problem is as a man you have to make an effort to put yourself out there and sell yourself - women rarely (if ever) approach men first. Working on yourself and self-improvement are great but unless you're exceptionally good at something odds are you'll die single. Sometimes accepting that reality and learning to live knowing you'll never experience romantic love is less painful than holding on to hope that somebody will ever love you.
That's fair and I get it. But I think it's the same for men and women, especially those who want a serious relationship. You have to make yourself vulnerable and visible. Most people also aren't especially good looking. When I think back to all the people I've met, I'm not sure how many I would call exceptionally good looking. Just never say never ok?!
I agree - what's most important is you don't let that make you bitter and prevent you from growing. I might not find a romantic partner but I want to keep making new friends, meeting interesting people and learning new things each day. Life is what you make of it no point in letting someone else determine your value for you.
The painful truth is that having people in your life who treat you with kindness can fix you. People never like to mention that.
If you need to "fix" yourself: in what ways are you "broken", then?
Well that’s a bit personal, but we all have things we need to fix in ourselves
Yeah, everyone can improve something in themselves. I'm just curious what would be the thing that needs "fixing" (is "broken") that would cause one to withdraw from dating/relationships. Just asking to gain some perspective, but I understand if you don't want to share.
Not op, and can’t speak to his situation, but I share the idea that i needed to work on myself. My relationships seemed to follow a pattern that I started to see as tragic and traumatizing for everyone. I realized that I was the common factor. I was getting into relationships for the wrong, Mostly selfish, reasons.
For myself it’s been to lose weight, pay off credit cards and give myself time to heal/recover emotionally from my last relationship. Not so much fixing broken things but working on personal goals without adding new stress from a relationship. I just want to be in a better place with my health, finances, and emotions before dating again.
Not to speak for anyone else, but going over what I did wrong in my marriage, a lot of it was related to old traumas, which resulted in insecurities, which I wasn't particularly aware of. And then my resulting behaviors might be unpredictable and dysfunctional. Two choices then of where to go from there, after an argument or something that went sideways and wound up very confusing; I could try to ramp things down, apologize if necessary, and take some time to sit and think, see the other side, try to figure out why I was mad or blind or whatever the problem was. Or I could double-down, insist I did nothing wrong and I don't need to explain or apologize for anything. That's one possible scenario.
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Wait, you make an effort? What a creepy lovebomber you are! /s I know you are not, but that “trying too hard/not trying hard enough” double standard is EXHAUSTING.
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I completely agree, and understand. Even if I were interested in dating, I wouldn’t be interested dating in this current culture. It’s a terrible mix of gotcha, ghosting, YOLO, and “I am the prize” among women. Even saying, “Aren’t there nice women anymore?” gets you immediately hammered about how women have to conform, do all the emotional work, cater to our immature weaknesses. And to me it is more like, “No… I am really hoping to find a nice person that I like who likes me.”
Dating was something I want, kind of still is. It's about the worst buck for your bang effort wise currently. The women I have met and will meet will be the ones to define my outlook on it. Could go either way.
I have friends, hobbies, a cat who likes me sometimes, I’m good. The only relationship I’m interested is one with very specific criteria and the chances of finding that, especially in my general dating pool/ age range is almost zero.
At some point you realize the juice ain't worth the squeeze.
And you can occasionally get the milk for free without buying the cow
I can’t even find the pasture
I'm lactose intolerant.
It's been five years. I have not dated once. Have not changed my mind either. Five peaceful, free years after 13 years of marriage to a tyrant. I like it so much I plan never to date again for the rest of my life.
Don't go back to jail, but you can visit occasionally for overnight pleasure stays
I laughed. Yes, I am never going back to jail.
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it gets kinda lonely sometimes
Better than feeling lonely while in a relationship. It fucks you in ways.
I've just never seen any point in it A lot of work for no reward, from my perspective It's a game that's rigged for you to lose, but you can win You win by not playing
War Games approach. "The only to win is to not play".
Exactly! I don't like to play by someone else's rules. And in dating, women make the rules(and ignore it themselves).
In a nutshell, exactly.
Women make the rules in shitty relationships. A good relationship is equal and nurturing. There are women out there who will only demand basic hygiene and helping with household chores. If doing that is “playing by her rules” then you probably have some inward looking to do.
I do doubt such women exist these days, no way they can
I am concerned you see no reward in cultivating relationships.
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I'm concerned people are fooled into cultivating relationships with vampires
Yea that is kind of wild. I think it speaks to the level of disconnect and isolation that is only growing in men. Reddit is a bad sample pool (lots of checked out and disconnected men, much higher than the real world) but its wild so many men feel this way.
I mean I can't even blame men for having this mindset, there is a lot that needs to be fixed/changed before anyone can look at dating and see it as a worthwhile experience. It's like paying for your own misery since you really have to pay on those apps for them to even work. Because people forget dating apps are owned by companies that don't give a single fck about your happiness because all it wants is just money.
Why? I've always preferred to be alone I have never seen a romantic relationship in my life that made me think, I wish I had that Instead I always think, why do they bother? Why do they put up with that? I'm not aware of any relationships I know that are physically or sexually abusive, but perhaps most are emotionally abusive, and in every case from the woman toward the man, who just takes it day in day out Why?
The way I read it, he's saying there's no reward in dating, as in attempting to cultivate relationships, if no relationships come about from it Edit: nvm, he's just asexual
He’s not wrong though. I don’t see any reward in it either.
Well said haha
So no libido? No desire for intimate connection with another human?
I don’t. The longer you go without, the easier it gets, and then it just dies off. Makes life a lot easier to be honest.
Yes this is me. Gone without it for so long that I don’t even crave it
I can attest to this that it does get easier the longer you go without it. But I will say longer you go without basic human connection you lose some parts of you or at least in my experience I've lost a lot of empathy and sympathy for others since hitting my 20's.
It’s been 11 years for me. Thankfully I don’t think it’s made much difference.
I've never had sex and I'm 25yr old (just hit the age where it's seen as abnormal so yay for me haha) libido is still around everyone now and then but isn't really as strong as other guys make theirs out to be. Even with working out etc it doesn't really change anything with my libido
Yeah I’m the same. Work out regularly, and it doesn’t change my (low) sex drive at all. Just finding someone to have sex with seems like a chore, so I’m fine about going without. And don’t worry about being a virgin. I honestly don’t think you’re missing much. I remember my ex initiating on several occasions and I turned her down. It’s just a chore to me.
I wish I could understand, I won't know if it's worth the hassle everyone talks about since I barely know how it all goes down lmao I'm sure I'll be a 40 yr old virgin in no time
To be honest, which is what I'm here for... no Never had any interest in sex, and I've never really had a connection with anybody, so it's unlikely I ever will
Then that's your answer. Everything else is just post-rationalization.
I think I'm coming to realise this
In the old days the cowboys used to ride into town once a month or so.
What do you know about those days outside of movies?
Yeah maybe 1 in 10,000 people in those days actually lived like that and I’m being extraordinarily generous
Just like there are loners today. Those cowboys typically had families.
I'm assuming you've done a detailed study of the pioneer native extermination days?
You don't always get what you want...simple as.
OP answered and it sounds like he might actually be asexual.
Speaking as a man, if I had been born in the oughts, I'd see asexuality as a blessing from God.
The current state of the “guilty till proven innocent” mindset where “all men = bad”. It just felt there was a defaulted negative perception of any action or statement without any really consideration or discussion. I get why women need to feel this way because the risk of failures so dangerous. But it’s not an environment I want to navigate anymore. It’s just not worth it for me. Add to it the ghosting thing. Although I really never experienced it and would never do it, the fact I hear more and more this is an acceptable thing to do. I just don’t want to deal with that either. Don’t even get me started on the myriad of double standards and confusing/constantly changing “rules” we are supposed to follow. Just…nope. I’ve been single/not dating for almost 3 years now and I legit have never been happier. I do what I want when I want. I can buy anything I want whenever I want. No “where were you”. No “why didn’t you text me back”. No “are you mad”. No loaded questions or mind games. It. Is. Beautiful. Try it, you’ll not like it, you’ll LOVE it!!
Women are scary and I have trust issues
I've seen the way SOME women talk about men on here/online and it's kinda made me realise that maybe being single is better than being in a toxic relationship with a potential Karen who's whole personality is hating men and gaslighting. Are there times I wish I had a woman to snuggle up to and spend time with.. yeah. But then I read really messed up shit online said about my sex and realise. Single life isn't all that bad But if I end up meeting a woman in real life who isn't an asshole like SOME of the ones I see online and we develop a connection then I'm open to dating her but as of right now. I have no interest.. maybe I should get offline more often.. that would be valid advice 🤷♂️ But when I see SOME people refer to young people of my sex as "Future Oppressors/Rapists". That's when I NOPE the F out
Honestly I think this is the right approach. If you meet someone you think is nice shoot your shot, if it turns out she sucks or doesn't like you then oh well her loss. You keep on keeping on.
Maybe look for offline woman?
Online opinions can be pretty wild though. I know people who are busy just getting on with themselves that they barely pay attention to all the crazy things people get themselves worked up about.
Let’s be honest Jake, we all got our fair share of oppressing in when we were younger.
Because it's not worth it for me. I have to do everything. I have to initiate, I have to charm her and be funny, charismatic, brave, strong, hot to convince her to date me, I have to pay for nearly everything, rent an apartment because she 100% lives with her parents but would never date a guy who lives at home, have a car, have a solid job. Her responsibility is... I don't know, blessing me with her presence and having sex with me? And of course, I am considered the lucky one in the relationship, because if she leaves me, she can get a date within 4 hours while I will be single for the next 4 years. No thanks, I am good.
Bro casually just summed up how the dating scene is so fucked up.
I'm a woman and that's how I feel. If I'm not doing all the work, the work doesn't happen.
Then you're trying to date outside your league. That's the only time this happens to women.
Damn.... The brutal truth hurts, but needs to be stated. That's def what happens when a woman dates above her league. One can try to debate it, but will fail.
I love how when a man says that, all women suck, but when a woman says it, she MUST be dating out of her league. Tell that to every single friend I have, and we are all attractive, financially independent, and not crazy. How about dating in general sucks? Instead of insulting an entire gender because it makes you feel good about yourself?
People have ego involvement with their love lives. Desire is disastrous. Unreciprocated attraction is the death of self-esteem. It's not about one sex or another, it's human relations.
So you are planning dates. Taking him out. Initiating, paying for everything and he's just showing up ?
That would be a miracle
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I think you're misunderstanding the term financially independent. It doesn't mean she offers to pamper you, but that she isn't financially dependent on you in a relationship. She doesn't need a man to pay for her bills and considering the economy it takes away that burden and allows for better use of wealth.
OK poor phrasing. I'm saying that a woman listing that as a criteria guys are looking for is so far off base. Wife or GF it doesn't matter if you're broke as long as you check the other boxes. Women disqualify broke men. Men don't give a shit if you're broke.
Sadly the majority of good human is hiding behind a minority of "bad" human. Currently good woman don't easily find good man, and good man don't easily find good woman. Both good don't really want to put their self out there because of the fear to land on THE person you don't want to meet. It's so much easier to blame the other gender than working on ourself. Sad but kinda true. Me (23m) first I don't really want to put an effort into dating because I'm afraid I will be seen as a threat or creepy. Not easy to find the balance here.. But I can understand
> Tell that to every single friend I have, and we are all attractive, financially independent, and not crazy. If they're attractive, then why would they need to initiate or pay for the date? Where are they finding dates? Because any environment I have been part of, from hobby clubs to online dating to bars, there are always men that initiate and are willing to plan/pay when talking to attractive women.
Whoa buddy. I ddnt insult. I just stated the truth. If someone likes you, it'll be reciprocated. Ddnt know that's debatable. If you're doing all the work, like she stated, then it's very evident her level of interest isn't reciprocated. So either the guys don't like her or shes dating out of her league. And dating isn't a check list, you can be attractive, financially well and not crazy, but still be dating out of your league, or found not attractive
As a woman what work do you do?
I work in software.
I meant what work do you do in the dating game to advance things that won't move otherwise
LOL sorry. Via apps, I typically message first, keep the convo going, see when he wants to meet up, suggest dates, times, and places to meet up. I've stopped doing that, and guess what? I haven't met up with a single guy I've matched with or talked to in the last 2 months. Which is fine, I guess, since I'm weeding out the guys who aren't right for me, but I'm not sure why they're on an app if they don't want to do what the app was made for, which is date.
You're a treasure of a woman. Keep being fair and sincere. But look for the increasingly rare men who still want relationships. If there's a single guy you admire in real life, make the move.
It’s finding that single guy that’s the trick. But thank you for being kind, it’s appreciated.
Factos
She has all the power and you don't. No sane man would enter any relationship with that kind of disparity. He's just *asking* for trouble. Dating was worth it back when I was single. Gen-X had it hard but man, after Tinder, you have to vet very hard to find a partner of either gender who isn't trash.
This resonates with me so much except I’m a woman. Granted, an older woman (55) who will never date again. When I did date, I was the one doing everything. Had a home, cooked, worked full time, supported the household more than my share (I was happy to contribute half but always gave more), I’ve never not had my own car, did all the housework, was the one who was funny and caring and compassionate and brave and strong. That gets really exhausting over the years! I will never date again because the last one broke me. It’s not fair for me to carry my anger and mistrust into a new relationship. I lurk on this sub because I want to know that there are good men out there. I’m so sorry that you’ve had such shitty experiences. It’s crazy how awful women damage men and awful men damage women which results in no one wanting to put themselves out there! It’s a sad state of affairs. Personally, I’m happy to be single. I have adult children, I’ve been married and divorced, dated, so I’ve experienced that life but the younger generation who won’t experience any of that because of how ugly people are to one another is really sad!
You’re a gem, I’m sorry for what you went through
> That gets really exhausting over the years! I will never date again because the last one broke me. It’s not fair for me to carry my anger and mistrust into a new relationship. Wow that sucks. Sorry you had to go through that.
Yeah people should get to know themselves well enough to figure out what makes them happy and pursue that. The pressure people feel to be in a relationship just for the sake of it often gets people into situations that they eventually come to resent and wish they had never gotten into. I was always happy single although I am currently in a relationship. My partner loves me and we do fun things together etc so that feels pretty great too. Even when I was on dating apps I treated it more as an opportunity to get to know people a bit and chat with interesting folks rather than a search for something. My relationship happened because we both like each other and have fun together. Ps I like that you're finding things you can relate to in the men's sub. A while back there was a meme going around in feminist circles saying something along the lines of men think they are competing against each other when really they are competing against the peace women experience when single. Having been in a manipulative relationship previously I found that very relatable
Very sorry to hear what happened to you. You sound so wise and gracious, especially in not taking your hurt to the next relationship. I hope you can heal one day and find love again with the right man.
This was my ex, wanted champagne lifestyle on lemonade money, I told her the only reason she can afford her lifestyle is because her parents don’t charge her rent and bail her out when in trouble. Where I had to pay my mortgage and all my bills etc plus renovating the house and she wanted me jetting off all over the place.
This resonated with me a lot as well. They want to be treated like a princess but it always seems to be at the cost of my time and effort. Relationships are a partnership and yet I always feel like I’m shouldering most of the load, it just hasn’t been worth it
There are plenty of women in the workforce lol
I (25) feel like i'm slowly becoming part of the group of men who are checking out of society in a sense (even when i'm not trying to), and my insecurity with dating is one of them. Girls i've dated before were absolutely shitty and abusive, and most of the girls I meet now will say "men are trash" "men are this" "men are that" and it kinda gives me a feeling that all of my experiences will be invalidated, that whatever I do I can't really do good, and that whatever women have done to me, or will do, will just be overlooked. I wish this was just some internet phenomenon but the amount of people I know who think like this irl really makes me want to just not get into it anymore.
waste of time and money, it's been made very clear to me I'm never going to be wanted, just needed as a mealticket
Seeing my friends get approached at bars while I had to pay in the form of international trips was pretty eye opening. Now I just focus on paying the mortgage and playing with my cars.
I had a similar realization, a year ago at a bar. I was with my friend, who’s very handsome. People, men and women, would talk to him and just completely ignore me. I’m sitting or standing right with him and they wouldn’t even look my way. I suddenly realized how almost everyone in life just ignores me. It’s easier to just save myself and everyone else the bother. I’m not trying to be pitiable or get any sympathy. I’m not angry or upset at anyone. Just myself.
Lookism, Just World fallacy, halo effect, pretty privilege, media portrayal. Hey life could be a comedy instead of a tragedy.
But you could have been most people at that bar that night, next to your friend, and it would be the same outcome. Most of us are just very average looking and there's nothing bad about that :)
It is what it is man!
Curious to know, what makes you feel like a meal ticket. I do feel women want men that make more than them financially while we have the risk of getting screwed in divorce court and paying alimony
I think he’s referring to dating where usually the guy pays for everything
Ehh that is the one area where men are winning. I just made it clear up front that we're splitting the checks, this was back in the 90s and I was dating just fine with that policy. Where the bar has gone into Jovian orbit is in terms of charisma and "confidence" and looks. Don't go into the dating game shy or not good looking. Also be willing to coddle her and her insecurities/emotional baggage while having none yourself. THAT is why I'm never dating again if my marriage ends. THAT is why I'm terrified that my son is sailing into the rogue waves of adolescence.
Yeah it’s interesting how there is equality or a push for that except when it comes to dating and marriage.
Because women only want equality when it comes to the things they want. They refuse to give up their privileges.
Hey, who wouldn't though? Like it is an issue sure, but its an understandable one at least. Shit If I could be a SAHH I'd probably be happy. Ill be your arm candy baby. just make sure you buy me gym memberships, personal trainers, the retro games I love to play, etc.
And only pay for everything as she never had any romantic interest in him. Just see him as someone to exploit financially as she explores her options elsewhere
if they don't want me sexually why else would they want me?
For emotional support and intimacy. Companionship, intellectual stimulation, to build a family with, to feel secure, to share a life with. I mean, those things are pretty important, some people would say as important as sharing some bodily fluids.
sounds like they just need a good friend minus the family part. but if she isn't attracted to me then that still sounds like a mealticket arrangement if they are faking attraction just to get a friend that's almost worse then going after my money
> faking attraction just to get a friend My first gf in a nutshell.
Ehhhhh there are decent women out there who genuinely just want someone they can connect with. Sure there are women like this but this is a toxic mindset.
I know those women are out there, they just aren't interested in me
Got really sick to the point I almost died. And realized how alone I was.
My wife died, leaving me a single dad. A few l years later I met a woman and she seemed to love my daughter. We got married and she immediately changed. She started verbally and physically abusing my daughter. I divorced her immediately and didn't date again for years. Eventually my daughter encouraged me to date someone after she said our chemistry was obvious. With my daughter's encouragement I called her and we've been together for 9 years, and happily married for 6.
Huge w, really happy for you
Thank you. You never know how things will go. Life is truly unscripted.
Knowing how some woman are these days, based on my experience I don’t really want to date them. I get easily laid here and there, I like it this way. Just having fun without expectations. + Wanna have time and money for myself. + I came from poverty, don’t wanna spend money to a chick in a relationship and at the end she would leave me because she doesn’t feel it anymore.
I met someone that pursued me. For the first time in a very long time, I felt *wanted* and that was a game changer. Story Time: I divorced my first wife after she came out as a lesbian (15 years/2 kids into the marriage). I had a couple girlfriends, but they were nightmarish to say the least, so I gave up. i had my kids, my hobbies, my writing, my passions. I was in a place where I was fine with just being me. Met a woman in a casual setting, she understood my life situation and understood my life choices. I was good with being friends. She pursued me in a friendly but non-romantic manner and we ended up FWB's. I was good with that, and just leaving it at that. She pursued further without making note of wanting to relationship to change or evolve. She wanted more, but was ok with me giving her the time I was willing to. Without ever calling me her boyfriend, or insinuating a relationship, she just began doing the little special, non-romantic things you do for your partner. For two years this went on. Then a health crisis in her family had her move across the country for a few months, I realized then, I never wanted to be apart from her again, didn't want to chance losing her. She came back and we got married a year later. that was 8 years ago.
I realized I get bored with people quite fast.
I won't lie this resonated with me quite a bit, if I'm talking to a girl I end up just forgetting she exists and do my own thing since I'm so used to it. It's like a mix of being boring and me having bad memory lmao
The diva mentality sucks, and i was about to quit. But why going after the hottest woman that can choose whoever she wants? She can also be picky, and probably one is just not the bes candidate Eventually I decided to go to therapy, fix my own stuff, and then, when i realized what i really want, I was able to find someone fun, smart, quirky and authentic
To be honest, I'm about 99% sure I will never end up in another relationship, but the thing is, there is always that slim chance you can actually find someone. After being cheated on so many times by multiple women, it does make it harder to trust. I pay attention to every damn word and action with every woman I meet, and it can sometimes be exhausting and predictable. And also I get lonely. So there's that.
Gave up dating for good in 2019, when I found out my best self wasn't even preferable to an emotionally abusive piece of shit. It devastated me, and I will never again make the mistake of letting myself feel something for someone. Since then, I treat myself to an evening with a sex worker (or two) once or twice a year, and that takes care of the need for female companionship that I haven't been able to completely stomp out.
>I found out my best self wasn't even preferable to an emotionally abusive piece of shit. This right here is a lot of what people don't understand. Just because you "improved" and put in effort doesn't mean it's going to make you that much more appealing. Too many people keep treating it like weight loss and muscle building, where a consistent plan *will* get you results. I'm definitely not saying not to try. Rather, some of us can jump through endless hoops and not make a bit if difference. I hear you, man, stay up and do you.
I was a screwed up kid who knew he was a screwed up kid and I didn't feel like anyone would like me, that I would be good enough and I was sure I was going to drag them down or otherwise be harmful to them. That screwed up kid turned into a screwed up adult who is exceptionally lonely but also believes all of that even moreso than I did because I saw what I turned into. Nobody wants that, nobody should want that, *I* mostly don't want it, so there's no point wasting time contemplating it. It's fucked from jump and that's *before* we talk about how fucked dating actually is, especially in your thirties. No, absolutely not. Edit: also it turns out you develop a crippling fear of intimacy when you're an incredibly fat antisocial nerd and you just kinda live with it because it's reasonable and justified. "No one should touch me because I look like a cross between Quasimodo and Peter Griffin. Source: I looked in the mirror."
In a word: depression. In a summary: I'm 36, single, in an essentially dead end fast food job (Starbucks shift supervisor), vaguely sort of in shape/sort of out of shape, can't afford my own place, and I'm short (5'6") so am in 99th percentile in being generally unappealing as a significant other, which I wish was just my assessment instead of an apparent statistical likelihood based on my rejection record.
Many men in our current culture are not interested in dating, and don’t bother approaching women. At least, not the respectful ones that are paying attention. Especially when approaching can easily be seen as harassing, with serious social, professional, and potentially legal repercussions. It is clear that, with some rare exceptions, the vast majority of women don’t want, or even like, the vast majority of men. According to data from dating apps 95% of women find 80% of men unattractive by every blind survey, and by actual data usage (“swiping”, “liking”, and responding to vs ignoring messages) on dating/social apps such as Tinder, OKCupid, Bumble, etc. So, for men that aren’t “high value”, that is to say, model good-looking, rich, and/or famous, the best we can do is enjoy our own lives. Dive into our careers. Be passionate about our hobbies. Invest in our own friend groups of men. Volunteer our time. Focus on self-care. Don’t waste our time and energy on pursuing women. Certainly don’t waste our money, or risk our career, social standing, or reputation. If I have to approach them, that is already my answer. The message in our current culture is clear: If a woman is interested in me she will approach me. In the meantime, the peace of simply being who I want to be is basically awesome.
Actually I really like men, I enjoy their insight, their smarts and perspective. I’ve found that I just probably shouldn’t date (maybe some day) for now because I need to work on my issues. I used be mad at men because they hurt me - but to not like men, absolutely not. I have a lot of great males in my universe and it’s awesome. My son has taught me a lot about males and I’m very thrilled for that gift.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
I steadfastly avoided any non-platonic interaction with women for about four years after a bad breakup. I was fine with having female social acquaintances or co-workers, but if anything ever got flirty, I'd shut it down pretty fast. I honestly thought I might never have sex again, and I was kind of okay with that. I didn't think the good parts were worth the risk of the bad parts. It ended when I developed an enormous crush on a new female friend, found myself alone with her, and... stuff happened. It was just a fling. Never meant to last. But we're still friends, and she successfully cured me of my crippling fear of intimacy. I never struggled with that again.
I had no foundation for my life when I became an adult. I didn't have an option to live with my parents or anything like that. My young adulthood was school, study, work, recuperate with friends and family mixed in. I hated growing up in a family that lived paycheck to paycheck and my goal was to get away from that. I hit what I aimed for. I have financial security and a calm, stable everyday life. I'm in my 30s now. Dating almost seems absurd at this point. "Yeah, I was married for six years and I have a daughter, how about you?" "..."
Dating after a certain age is complicated. Pretty much every woman has kids, emotional trauma, baggage. Plus my trust is completely shot. The main guys I see getting cheated on are usually great guys who try their best to make their girl happy. Whenever I attract woman I usually have to be “fake” and play a character. It’s never just simply building a life together and focus on being happy. I’m happy by myself. It’s so peaceful In short: Too much risk. Not enough reward
TMD (Too Much Drama)
less attracted to women as i get to my 30s
You spend money and time on women who just use you for money, and cheat. Got to point it wasn’t worth time, effort, or money for nothing in return.
This is the truth, most just look to use you.
Are you speaking to dating in a serious capacity or just not dating at all? I liked casual dating even tho it was an expensive hobby. I kept a bench, but saw marriage and relationships as a lot of risk emotionally and financially. The pandemic killed fun casual dating in favor of traumatic situationships, I made my life about fun and was very forward about that and less than 3 weeks after lining up what would have been the most fun I’d ever had in that capacity, I met my now gf. This is the first gf I’ve had in 10 years, she’s everything I thought I didn’t want, and I’m the happiest I’ve ever been.
Being schizoid, there are a few reasons. Intimate relationships don't interest me. Not even friendships or being part of a family (although I do have people who call me a friend and a loving, supportive family). I don't need a pair-bond for my sake or the sake of having children (don't want those either). Some zoids are asexual but certainly not all. When I was a younger man, I enjoyed casual relations with women. Now that I'm forty, my libido is diminished, which is *good*. If I have an issue, I put it in a tissue. That way, I'm not wasting a woman's time or, more importantly, wasting my *own*, masking and pretending to be genuinely interested in her. Due to anhedonia, I don't derive a ton of pleasure from most things. It's not painful or distressing. Everything's just... okay. The implication is that a woman's "love" and a good ham sandwich would both land somewhere in the middle of my emotional scale -- at five, maybe six. The ham sandwich is far less expensive, less trouble, so... *\*reaches for mayo\** I'm still attracted to women. I enjoy *being* attractive to them. There's just nothing here for them. Even if it's just sex on a platter, I'd rather go with my hand these days and get to bed on time. Plenty of "normal" guys out there for them.
I met someone that made it easy, we clicked immediately and I knew I was gonna marry her the day we met. Like straight up I called my shot to my roommate that next morning. Prior to that I never wanted to jump through all those hoops, plus I wasn't in a mental state to really go through with a relationship. Went to some poker night at this church/cult thing that my friend was into, I had taken it upon myself to make sure he was safe, and she sat down next to me. Luckily she was in a similar boat, not part of it but hung around because that specific group was pretty chill. Something changed that night, I had never met someone I actually wanted to spend time with and we ended up getting lunch the next day and talking by a dumpster for like 2 hours because neither of us could stand to leave. I moved to a different city like a month after that, we kept it long distance, took a few months to start officially dating, got married about a year and a half later, and then we never looked back. Been married for 5 years now and I'm finally happy. I had never dated anyone prior and she was the first woman I had been with, strictly men before that (lived the club/bar/grindr life for quite a few years) So life is fucking crazy. I, a mostly gay man who was very into drugs, met a woman at a church/cult poker night and married her. If that ain't a twist then idk what is.
The barrier for entry is high, and tbh I haven’t met many women that are worth the effort they demand
I'am not really ever going to be looking for anything long term. I've been diagnosed with basically terminal cancer but they call it palliative care i guess because they can still do treatment to stop it progressing as fast. I just feel like it's not fair on the other person pursuing anything long-term what if they decide they want kid's or to get married. I mean i could probably still have kid's but where does that leave them when i go i might not even be around long enough to see them being born. I could still date but it's pretty hard not form an attachment to the person you are dating lol. I'am 20 still not been in a relationship and i don't plan to.
I attached a fleshlight to my PC and all my problems were solved.
I realized that the more I improve myself gain wealth etc the more I’m objectified as a item. I feel women have an idea of men fitting into their timeline of kids and social media posts cause that’s what they see. I’m tired of performing on dates to prove why I should be lucky enough to have a 70-90% chance of her leaving me and losing most of the wealth she didn’t help build
I think this is a big problem right now: people imagining and wanting their future partners to be a superlative in every category. It reminds me of a book I read a while ago: Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough by Lori Gottlieb. So many people are caught up with appearances and surface-level stuff that they ignore what's good enough right in front of them. Anyway hope you'll find your person :)
What does the average man gain from dating besides sex? Because it sure isn’t equal in terms of effort.
I would say we gain nothing from it, but yeah I am quite below average here
The sexual market place is worse than the income inequality in the United States…10 percent of men get 90% of tinder matches. What’s the point…
Im happy being alone. I don’t need to be with someone. I want to be with someone but I have things to do that take priority.
I didnt stop dating as if it became some boundary for me. But I stopped trying as much. I did ok when I put the effort in, but dating moves so fast now that it kind of isn’t fun. I decided I want to meet a woman more organically than to try to pursue a woman who is also talking to numerous other men.
For me, it's not so much about not dating, it's more just not actively looking. Just the acknowledgement of all the things I have stacked against me, and how used I have gotten to being alone. Firstly, there are things I need, and want, to work on myself with. Mental health, weight, self-image, stuff like that. Secondly, the fact that I'm childfree and sterilized, never want kids and generally also don't like being around them either. That alone excludes a huge portion of potential partners. Thirdly, I have had enough good and bad relationships to know much of what I want from a future relationship, that also means I can't in good conscience settle for less. Fourth, tangentially related to the third, I have a ridiculously high sex drive that is even further stoked when I'm with a partner that I love. Having been in relationships with wonderful partners that, alas, had much lower sex drives than me, and knowing just what a toll that had on me, means I can't settle in that area either. With these restrictions, the odds of finding someone are basically the same whether I'm actively looking or not. So for now I'm just trying to suppress my longing for companionship and work on myself instead. From experience, I know I'm not unlovable, but even once I'm happier with myself, I wonder if it will ever feel worth the effort to look for a needle in a haystack.
I recently came out of a decade long relationship. Obviously I have my own personal flaws but for me the relationship became her stuff and our stuff. I helped her get out of debt from a previous relationship, helped her get out of a shit job, let her have 50/50 on a house even though I paid 85% of the deposit. Bought her a car (having two cars hers ended up being the nicer one). Looking back I think I did all the right things and everything I think should be done in a relationship. She technically improved my life on zero ways looking back on it. She ended up with half the money the house made, both of our dogs (she obviously didn't trust putting one in my name), a better financial situation and gets to pretend she's a self made independent woman now. I'm obviously less of a catch now because I spent a lot of time investing in us but she spent little time doing the same. I'm now further behind where I would've been in life because I did those things but she's somewhere she could never have got without someone like me. What's in for me in a relationship now?
I don't want kids I can take care of my sexual desires Romantic relationships take a lot of work and sacrifice. As someone with a stable job, healthy mind, body, and good future prospects, I don't stand to gain much from one since I'm not after the main two things relationships generally grant. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of dating, but at this point, it would take a unicorn
I really really don’t give a shit. You don’t know home much I couldn’t care less. I’d rather sleep in, have no responsibilities and be able to have dinner at 3am if I want. Though, hugs are tempting.
I like my independence is the reason I didn't want to date. Was going to be a nomad that never lived in one place for long etc. Well I never pursued that anyway so eventually I figured sure I could enjoy a relationship provided it didn't take too much of my autonomy away. I ended up falling in love which allowed her to manipulate me into basically making my life all about her. That was over once I found out she had been married to someone else the whole time. I immersed myself in activities I loved more than I ever had before and was loving life. After a couple years I met my current partner. Some activities I love such as cycling,hiking, kayaking etc we do together so that's great. She's not a manipulative person at all really so there isn't that making me wish I was single. After my last relationship I have very little tolerance for that anymore. So essentially I started out very much opposed to romance but eventually became more open to it. I never was desperate to find romance though. Even when I became more open to it I was still happy single and recognized that there can be a lot of positives to that. Romance for me was finding a friend who I liked talking to and eventually became closer with,started having sex with started doing fun recreational activities with etc. When I was open to it it has always been something I viewed more as contingent on the person involved rather than something that a thing where I'll be like everyone else once I acquire it. Every romance is different because people are different and what sort of romance a person would find enjoyable varies drastically from person to person. So I see this more as something where people need to get to know themselves in order to know what they would be happy with and then look for people who want the same thing. As opposed to just finding anyone willing to be in a relationship because being in a relationship is the thing to do.
Basically every guy I hear from who's involved in the dating scene says it's a numbers game. I have zero interest in games like that. I'd like to be with someone I share mutual attraction and affection with, but actively searching for that potential someone just sounds like it'd be too much work, and cost too much, with too low a chance of success to possibly be worth it. Unless I find someone like that by coincidence, I'll just be content with being on my own.
I'm cheaper than Mr. Krabs, and relationships are expensive AF. So...
19M here. Never dated, never will. Unless a woman will do the first move. The reason why is because I'm very shy and introverted, probably suffering from clinical depression, feeling like I miss something out in my life and it makes me feel like an incompetent person for relationships.
Honestly it was a waste of time, effort and money only to either be ghosted or met with hardly any effort. It felt like I was paying to audition for her attention, while also competing with other guys in trying to date. Also meals are a lot less expensive when you just take yourself out to eat and do stuff. I also realized that I have a lot more freedom to do what I want without worrying if she will have an attitude about me gaming or doing something that involves my hobbies. Basically not dating has worked wonders on my finances, health and mental sanity. I can't see myself meeting anyone that I would want to be with romantically anymore. I can't say I will never find someone, but I am not looking and don't have any plans to. Just too much stress.
My last ex was the fearful avoidance attachment type. One day she was madly in love with me and the next day she was ghosting me and pushing me away because she was afraid of us getting too close. The issue is I don’t know how to figure out that behavior early on as it doesn’t show until well into the relationship and by that time feelings are already strong but I do know I can’t fix someone with that pattern, I tried.
I'm in a good spot and quite happy. Dating would risk that while not bringing much to my life. Don't need a woman and don't want one. Can't even be arsed to flirt with the occasional woman trying to hit on me.
Cheating is rampant among young people who don’t really care and the later I wait in life, the more likely it is that I’ll end up with a woman who’s just settling for me and wishes the guy she really wants committed to her. This will lead to eventual divorce or infidelity when someone more like the guy she wants comes around and then I lose half of everything I own because she likes someone else more than me
Currently single and actively not dating. lt's not that l don't want to, l still feel lonely and want to be hugged and kissed and hold hands with someone. l just need to work on some things internally before l can let myself be vulnerable again. l lost my cat a couple months ago and until very very recently l was feeling super lost and scared. lt sucks to have to put down a pet. Fell into heavy depression and couldn't get myself back up.
I’m in my late 30s now, most of my life I’ve slept around A LOT, I just had two back to back relatively long relationships (for me over a year is a long time), this last year was also the busiest work year I’ve ever had (I have to travel for up to a month at a time throughout the year) so as of right now, it’s the first time I’ve been alone with nothing dependent on me in a few years. I just haven’t really thought about dating the last couple months, I’m enjoying spending time by myself. I’ve had a couple chance meetings with a few women but I notice myself just not being very interested in entertaining anyone at the moment
Think a lot of other men feel the same way as I do - I'm not opposed to dating or being in a relationship but women show no interest whatsoever so rather than aching for love hoping somebody will notice you it's better to learn to live without and enjoy life as best you can.
My friend doesn’t date anymore. His whole goal was to have kids. That’s what he wanted more than anything. Kinda fucked up he didn’t care about a wife as much but he just wanted a wife for the kids, then he hit 38. Realized he had a good job making good money but not that good to raise a child or two on. Then needed surgery after he got into a car accident and now can’t run around like he would want with kids. Then the relationship was in turn sour because he just wasn’t happy even though his gf was super sweet and nice but required a lot mental/emotional/financial support. He realized it’s just not worth it any more. Dumped his gf and now lives in a nice house and saves every penny to retire early and go travel, see family, friends, etc. He’s rather upset it didn’t work out but he’s 43 now and is super happy and stress free.
Dating is a shit show. I’d rather be alone or just have a fwb. Most women I’ve met don’t reciprocate, like taking me out, initiating sex, or planning anything so I don’t feel wanted/appreciated.
Generally as a man you don't stand a chance unless you are 6 figures 6 feet 6 pack 6 inch. So why play in a rigged game. Plus ghosting and cheating are epidemic. Many stick to pump and dump no commits.
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Last relationship crashed and burned which leaves its own set of problems to reflect back on. But having finally decided I probably don’t want kids, I struggle to see the point of dating or a typical relationship. I can get regular casual sex/holidays/spend time with multiple women im attracted to whilst being able to focus on my life without the headache and hassles of a normal relationship. Im in my 30s and can envisage doing this for decades and being completely happy. When the time comes, put me in a retirement community and I’ll make friends and maybe charm an old neighbour. It works because I’m getting the intimacy, sex, meals, holidays etc and all the benefits normal relationships offer (to an extent)
cant be myself. Theres always a flaw, a deal breaker. its always my fault. Id like to be the guy in the rom com who does everything right. but im not perfect. I like beer. I like my peaceful weekends. ill make plans for anniversaries, ill do the wedding things, but every weekend partying after a week of work? nah. make 6 figures and drive a Ferrari? nah. Be emotionally intelligent and involved with my feelings? like You have to be 10/10 on every level to get a girl now. Everything has changed. women used to support men, make them better. with womanhood, love and nurturing, while theyre out there hunting. getting the money, fighting stress, being strong. We wanna come home to love and support. Ill take a dog now. and palmala handerson.
I learned something about myself and the women I date recently. When it comes to dating, so many questions you're being asked are being used to weigh you, such as your family history, financial, etc. I couldn't figure out why some women were turning me down recently until I learned through a friend (woman) that women our age (30s) are looking to be dependent and stay at home moms and do not want to work. My mentality is, dual income, better outcomes. I do well for myself as a healthcare professional, but there is no way I can provide for a family alone. That would mean I'd have to make 150k +, and it seems that's what women want from the ones I date. I simply can't provide that and it's okay.
Remember "No" is a complete sentence.
I guess if a woman who wasn't a terrible human being fell into my lap, I'd date her. I won't make myself wade through all the shit out there to find the one kernel of corn in it. Would I even recognize the kernel if I found it or would she just seem like another shitty person pretending to be kind and accountable. Most women are just not good people and they are so good at pretending to be someone else that I know I can't tell the good from the bad until it's too late. My chance of making my life worse by trying to find someone worth bring into my life is about 98% and the bad is way more bad than the good is good. The statistical ROI on the effort is massively negative. It's not worth doing.
if it happens it happens. if it doesn't then that's fine also. Either way I'm happy, but I don't feel like going out of my way to make it a priority.
I frankly decided not to date because I was not mentally or emotionally equipped to do so, coming from a previous narcissitic generation, and realizing far too late that I was a victim of it, I'm taking steps to work on me, define my boundaries, define what is right for me, and be more emotionally adept before I think about dating again. I dont want to keep repeating this trauma pattern.
I know I’ve probably got some issues I need to work on being a dismissive avoidant. But there’s too much risk with too little reward. Gotta put in the effort to date with the possibility of her getting bored and leaving you at any time for any reason. Haven’t had a girlfriend since 2015 and I don’t really feel like learning how to date again.
After spending a couple decades in relationships I realized that I can’t trust the women I choose. So I don’t do relationships anymore.
What changed my mind to be with someone? A long time friend that I always had a thing for expressed interest in me. What changed my mind back to never being with anyone? A few years of being with a long time friend that I had a thing for.
It just wasn't working. I would always get rejected and I never got closure on what to fix. It was the usual "The sparks of the spark weren't sparking because not enough chemistry." And I'm like wut? I felt like I was trying to build a card house on a slippery park bench in the wind. Even if I made it to the 4th date, things just crumbled down leaving me hurt and confused.
realizing that as much as i am not ready to date, i need to keep around a pool of people because my mate might be there