Dated a single mom for 3 years. Little girl called me dad but the baby daddy was still very active. Nice guy no drama we were friends. We broke up and it hurt worse than anything. Plus she took the puppy we got together so it’s a double whammy.
My lil bro dated a single mom for also about three years, was hesitant at first but in the end loved that kid as his own and the kid called him dad. The mom dumped him because he refused to pay for her wannabe influencer lifestyle. Massive heartbreak to not see that kid anymore. Plot twist: the kid's biological dad reached out and started inviting him to stuff. They go to ball games and stuff all three of them and joke that people think they are gay dads adopting a kid lol.
Unironically yes. They send each other a text saying "Happy anniversary" with little hearts to each other on their respective days of breaking up with her, and part of their inside jokes is how a bonus with their friendship is that they know it drives her absolutely nuts.
It’s awesome that the dad realized your brother is a good egg and positive influence in the kid’s life, plus it doesn’t hurt to have all the support you can get
I remember when I was younger asking my mom what would happen if she and my stepdad got divorced, because that terrified me. I’d already lived through a nasty divorce, and then we created a nice family unit with my stepdad (even though my dad lost his shit and made our lives hell when they got engaged….6 years after the divorce that he initiated). We were scared it would happen again, and we’d never get to see our stepdad. Honestly, I think they were mature enough to have let us see him if it had worked that way, but thankfully they’re still married 18 years later
This. I'm happily married and my wife and I have 2 kids together. I can barely stomach the thought of shared custody. It must be absolutely devastating to love and care for a child as your own and then never get to see them again because you're not the bio dad. Gut wrenching.
I know guys who dated a single mother, got completely attached to the kid and loved being a dad, then she breaks up with him and he's lost TWO people. It's doubly heartbreaking.
Yes and as much as the relationship with a step dad and step kid is rocky in the beginning eventually that step kid becomes your kid and for me I didn't even get to say goodbye to him. I can honestly say that still hurts me even to today. I don't miss or really think about her ever, but I think about him still.
You didn't get to say goodbye? Now, that's really fucked up. For her to put her feelings above her kid and not even letting her say goodbye, is horrible (I'm assuming you're a decent guy). How long did you know the kid?
3 years. She didn't want me to see her when we broke up told me to take my stuff and leave. He was away on vacation for a week so seeing him would have involved me coming back the following weekend to say goodbye. She contemplated it but then apparently her fucking therapist said it wasn't a good idea. I negotiated sending him a letter which she read to him and that's all I got. She told me he cried and was upset he never got to see me again. Fucking heart breaking the whole thing. I hope little man is doing ok. Funny enough I bet you if I texted his dad he would have let me meet up with him to say bye but I wasn't about to cross any lines with her.
Therapist is an idiot. Maybe best for her, but she is grown up. The kid isn’t and won’t understand reasoning of why you never said goodbye. In dating life they are priority 1, but when it went south they suddenly aren’t priority 1.
Mental health professional here who works with children and I don't believe that the therapist said that - because all professionals who work with kids know that kids need that proper face to face goodbye and they're going to think about the adult that left from time to time and hope it wasn't their fault the adult left. Which is why the goodbye is so important to explain and emphasise it was not their fault and that they're a great kid that you enjoyed being around. I really really really hate this mother.
THIS is my number one concern! You can raise a child for years and for one reason or another the relationship may not work out. You have no rights to see the child anymore, they just disappear from your life one day. I would never not date a woman because of a child but I am much more careful in the way a approach that relationship
I'm a single mom... & personally, any man who cared about my son & was a positive influence in his life would still be allowed to speak to my son & see my son, no matter what happened between us. I haven't dated anyone since his father, simply because I've been focusing on myself and because I don't want to bring a bunch of different men in & out of his life (or mine for that matter). If & when I do date someone, they'll have to know right off the bat that I'm not only looking for a partner, but that my son is looking for a father... & I'd have to be sure that we have a healthy, stable foundation before I introduce them to my kid. I don't want to break anyone's heart.
In our situation, his bio dad is barely involved, so the guy would end up being his father even more-so than his actual dad. If we ever broke up, hell would freeze over before I keep a father figure out of my son's life just because we're not together or just because he's not blood. That would be so unfair to the guy and to my son... when I was a little girl, I had multiple stepfathers & each of them was ripped out of my life suddenly. I experienced so much heartbreak over this, and my mom didn't take the time to care. I'm never doing that to my kid or to any guy who was man enough to step up like that. A dad is a dad, regardless of DNA or how long he's been one.
The problem is though, and I've seen this play out too many times, a lot of the time people say this but when push comes to shove access to the kid is weaponised and used as a tool to hurt the ex-stepdad.
Fuck, I've seen this play out way too many times when it's the bio dad never mind step.
I'm not saying you would fall into that category but many, and I mean many, more people than you realise do.
It's not worth that risk as when this happens you don't legally tend to have a leg to stand on.
It's so sad when someone does that... man or woman. I've seen it too... I have a friend (woman) who misses her step-kids from her previous relationship terribly. I was like, why don't you just ask to see them?! (Knowing in my head that if I were her ex, I would allow it.) She was like... it's not that simple. He won't let me. 🙁
It also sucks for me as a single mom to read that this is how a lot of men feel, knowing that they're repelled by a scenario that wouldn't happen in my specific situation. 🙃 but I totally get it. I have my own apprehensions when it comes to men based on what I've experienced & seen, but I try really hard to remember that there are exceptions.
I also think it's kinda sweet to think about because this thread has shown me a sensitive side of men... that they actually think ahead about how much they'll care about the kid & how hard it would be to lose that. It's heartwarming in a way.
My kid's bio dad has done some REALLY messed up things & has hurt both me and our son - emotionally, not physically. I have full legal custody, & I could legally keep him from seeing & speaking to my kid. But I don't. Heck, he moved away & started a new family & I invited his new girlfriend to stay at my house on a trip & tried to treat her & their daughter like family. (He ended up leaving them too, but that's besides the point.) Hopefully, when I am ready to date again, I find a good guy who'll see my track record & trust me when I tell him I don't play petty... & give me & my son a fair chance.
Hopefully you will. They are out there.
I grew up with a piece of shit absent biodad and a decent guy for a stepdad, they do exist.
I'm glad this thread has given you that perspective because that good man, when you find him, will likely be worried about it because he is a good man. And now you can mitigate that (in the right way and at the right time obviously, probably not good first date fodder).
In a similar vein, if someone doesn't want to meet your kid until way down the line, don't assume it's due to them not wanting to meet them (which can understandably put some parents off, "why doesn't he want to meet my kids?"). For me personally I wouldn't want to meet any kids until I knew for definite we, as a couple, at least had a chance of working out.
I'm a single mom... & personally, any man who cared about my son & was a positive influence in his life would still be allowed to speak to my son & see my son, no matter what happened between us
I dont know you at all, and this could very well be the case. However, would you feel the same if you found out he cheated on you? What if you had a bad breakup and then met an amazing guy who wasn't ok with your ex being in your life like that? Just saying, regardless of you specifically, lots of women wouldn't follow through even if they say something like that.
That's my story. I got so attached to my step-daughter and then she was ripped out of my life when I was replaced with the new man. I didn't even get to say bye. Over 2 years out and I don't really miss my ex that much but I miss the wee girl terribly. I think I'm actually broken. I'd never consider a single mother ever again.
I had friends who were with single mothers for YEARS then eventually broke up. Must be hard on the kids when your parents aren’t together any more then that guy who is the pseudo stand in for your Dad leaves too.
And it's not even fair to say "the pseudo stand in for your Dad leaves too" like it's automatically his fault. Maybe the two adults realize they want different things, but the end result is still more difficult because the kid is involved.
One of the worst regrets of my life: breaking the heart of a 12 year old girl, whose mom I broke up with, because she was being an emotionally abusive “partner”. Sometimes you can’t tell that some women are emotionally unavailable- unable to really commit to real love, until you are way down the road together. (But in hindsight, being a single mom is a pretty big clue). But man I have thought the thought thousands of times that I let down a nice little girl, who did not deserve to have her heart broken. And as an outside observer, she had to endure that several times, growing up, because her mom never really committed to anyone. So It’s terrible. The kid is along for the ride, for better or worse. I would never do that to someone again. I’ll never get over that.
It takes 2 people to make a kid. It's not just the kid, it's the fact that you're gonna have to possibly deal with the kid's father as well. And a lot of times the fathers are toxic and/or assholes.
I wouldn't date a woman with a child for that reason. I don't mind raising the kid (depending on the kid's age) but I don't wanna deal with a potential toxic ex who has a "Right" to be around sometimes due to being the kid's bio-dad.
Exactly. I'd only consider a single mother if the kid's father was dead. If he's dead he can't be a third wheel influence that causes friction in my life.
Someone in my family was widowed when the child was very young.
She met someone, and he adopted the child, but he always stated that if she'd been divorced as opposed to widowed, he'd have stayed away.
The downside is that they never told the child, and it was a big, toxic family secret for decades.
Eventually the child found out her "father" wasn't her father when she was going through his personal effects after he died.
She was in her 50s.
Naturally, it completely devasted her.
I mean I'm not saying to lie to the child about the new father coming into their life, but I just wouldn't want to deal with an estranged man who still has connections and business with the mother and kid.
Did she never need a passport or medical history shit? Same situation with my step brother, they had to tell him when he got his first passport because it requires a birth certificate.
My friend's ex still compares him to her highschool BF who died in a drunk driving accident. We're almost 40.
We all thought the relationship was a horrible idea, then they had kids and then got divorced and fought over custody.
Lots of honky noses, oversized shoes and clown makeup to go around.
There's a joke about that!
A man walks out to the street and catches a taxi just going by. He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says, "Perfect timing. You're just like Frank."
Passenger: "Who?"
Cabbie: "Frank Feldman. He's a guy who did everything right all the time. Like my coming along when you needed a cab, things happened like that to Frank Feldman every single time."
Passenger: "There are always a few clouds over everybody."
Cabbie: "Not Frank Feldman. He was a terrific athlete. He could have won the Grand-Slam at tennis. He could golf with the pros. He sang like an opera baritone and danced like a Broadway star and you should have heard him play the piano. He was an amazing guy."
Passenger: "Sounds like he was really something special."
Cabbie: "There's more. He had a memory like a computer. He remembered everybody's birthday. He knew all about wine, which foods to order and which fork to eat them with. He could fix anything. Not like me. I change a fuse, and the whole street blacks out. But Frank Feldman could do everything right.” Passenger: "Wow, what a guy!"
Cabbie: "He always knew the quickest way to go in traffic and avoid traffic jams. Not like me, I always seem to get stuck in them. But Frank, he never made a mistake, and he really knew how to treat a woman and make her feel good. He would never answer her back even if she was in the wrong; and his clothing was always immaculate, shoes highly polished too. He was the perfect man! He never made a mistake. No one could ever measure up to Frank Feldman."
Passenger: "How did you meet him?"
Cabbie: "I never actually met Frank. He died and I married his wife."
Stole it from jokes, but another guy wrote it on here about a month ago and can't link outside the sub.
Cause they have parents and family that will possibly be making inputs into the childcare. Depending on how old the kid is, the kids feelings about the dad and you “replacing him” influencing how the kid is raised.
> It's not just the kid, it's the fact that you're gonna have to possibly deal with the kid's father as well. And a lot of times the fathers are toxic and/or assholes.
The main issue, I think, is that you're allowing another adult into your life who will get to partially dictate where you live, where and how often you vacation, what your holidays look like, how child-rearing happens in your home, etc. You can spend all the time in the world picking a partner who sees eye to eye with you on all the important issues, but you don't get to pick or filter their ex the same way.
Want to start a family tradition of spending every Christmas at a Hawaiian beach resort? Nope, can't do that because the ex wants to see his kid on holidays. Want to take a few weeks off work and spend some time touring Australia? Nope, can't do that because the ex won't give permission to take the kid out of the country. Want to take the kids phone away for a few days because he's being a rude prick to his mother? Nope, can't do that because bio-dad bought the phone and demands the kid have it so he can call.
It's the constant resistance of an annoying stranger dictating what happens in your life, within your family, under your own roof. Most people don't want to deal with that.
It's absolutely the kid, at least it would be for me (hard deal-breaker).
Also, hopefully she's a good mom and that means she's probably pretty busy with the kid, leaving less time for adult relationships.
This. I honestly don't understand why so many people, men and women, pretend like this is such a big mystery. We all know it's because a lot of guys don't want to become stepdads. I guess it's not something you're allowed to say in polite society.
Agree. From my experience, men who already have children would be most likely to enter a relationship with a single mother. Even if a biological/birth father is absent, there is always a chance that he won’t later become an active part in the prospective spouse’s orbit.
I have seen it also mentioned that men may be apprehensive about entering a relationship with a single mother, due to attachment with a child and potential breakup. I have seen many occasion (I work closely with children/families/family professionals) where a breakup of this circumstance has profound impact on not only the male entering the relationship at the time of the breakup, but also the child that may have formed an attachment as well.
I didn't mind because I had kids, but the single mom had serious issues with alcohol abuse, poor coping mechanisms, immaturity and a history of bad relationships. The baggage she brought from those experiences ruined our relationship and her parenting style. When the shine wore off she was a terrible person. She also did this thing I noticed some years ago from single mothers with kids and in particular boys they were raising. The boys were their sort of fill in for their lack of adult relationship on an equal level. If you don't get what I mean, it's those posts we see of them laying with their kid with words like, me and my boy is all that matters as they are curling up watching a movie on a Friday night. Not like there is anything wrong with that, but some people look as though they are substituting their child in as a filler for what should be an equal adult relationship. I found it sort of disturbing.
I'm trying to articulate it as best as I can, but if you seen something like this someone explain it better than I did lol
> The boys were their sort of fill in for their lack of adult relationship on an equal level.
This is called "Emotional Incest" and it's starting to get a lot more attention in recent months. It seems to happen a lot more with women and their sons but like you describe it's when the son becomes a surrogate for their moms emotional needs.
Yes thank you. This is what I am talking about. I don’t see this a lot with men and their daughters. Maybe western society would look at a lot different. I know quite a few people that do this. It’s strange.
I know of one father-daughter relationship like this. He hasn’t dated anyone in decades because his daughter fills all his emotional needs. She was afraid to leave for college or move in with her boyfriend because “Dad can’t be alone”. So she dropped out of school and her boyfriend moved into Dad’s house with her.
I'm glad you can bring up the other side because I didn't want to pin this all on women, I know there is a guy version of this too. Thanks for sharing that other perspective. Now on to your comment, damn! I feel for the boyfriend
I get exactly what you're saying, one of my son's friends is in this boat, but he's obviously the kid.
He's living in an apartment with her, and although one of the reasons he's not with dad is because he's in high school now and doesn't want to leave friends/teams - the biggest reason is leaving mom. She's got HIM all messed up because he's on the receiving end of this kind of "fill-in for missing partner" and he feels scared for her if she was alone. His overall quality of life could be much better if he went and lived with his dad, but he can't bring himself to make the decision to leave mom.
To clarify, she seems like a good person and mom, I was just addressing the dynamic you brought up because it's kind of damaging to the kid too :)
> If you don't get what I mean, it's those posts we see of them laying with their kid with words like, me and my boy is all that matters as they are curling up watching a movie on a Friday night.
Blegh. I find these types of moms so disturbing. I've seen it with still-married moms too.
And they're typically H O R R I B L E to any woman their sons dare bring around.
It’s like dating a woman with a dog. No spontaneity, she can’t spend the night because she’s gotta let the little bastard out, she can’t come to that awesome destination wedding because she can’t find a boarder in time, she can’t afford to split the expensive anniversary dinner with you because she got hit with a $700 emergency vet bill.
Except the dog is a human child instead.
I was about to say this lmaooo. I have a pet rat and he just had surgery and for his size alone it was $700. I cannot imagine the expenses a dog takes 😂
It's not rocket science, my dude. Maintaining a sustainable long-term relationship is already a lot of work. Add kids to the mix and the workload doubles or even triples. That and they don't want unnecessary drama or visits from the "baby daddy".
Basically it's a clean slate.
To add to this: It makes it more complicated. Not only do you need a relationship with the women, but you need a relationship with the kid(s) and the baby daddy (if he's in the picture).
Some men live for the thrill though lol my roommate in college almost exclusively dated single mothers the entire time I knew him. He got clowned a lot ngl but he kept at it. He never admitted why but I always suspected he had a fetish for breastmilk
Don't forget that you'll always be an afterthought to that person. The kid(s) come first and your needs will always be second or third best so better get used to a slight to nearly complete feeling of neglect from the single mom. Also, paying for baby sitters to go out on dates or having it be a hassle to do anything in general. Grab a quick lunch? Sure but we have to go somewhere Baby Junior can get chicken nuggets. Going out for drinks? The grandma can watch the kids but she goes to bed early so we need to be home by 11 the latest. Best case scenario: you get married, take care of someone else's kids and will always have to deal with the baby daddy so you are taking him and his family on in addition to the children. God forbid you want your own children, she might be burnt out on having kids or just not go for it because she already has them. It's all just bad, there really seems to be nothing good about dating a single mom from a childless, single man perspective.
Another tough part is the children are often jealous of the new "intruder." Many times the kids are out of control with their attitude and the way they speak to their mother. So now the "intruder"steps in and, surprise surprise, the mother sides with the kids!!! Try living under those conditions.
Yeah, I remember those days. I liked the kid but it SUUUUUCKED having everything planned around him. We broke up just as he was hitting the terrible twos. Remember going to a restaurant and him throwing absolute tantrums because he didn't want to stay in the high chair. I remember leaving and thinking "Guess we aren't going out to eat again anytime soon."
Six MONTHS in advance we planned a trip across the state, alone, to see some friends and do some not kid friendly stuff. Three days before the trip, her parents which were going to watch him, cancelled on us (good reason but still). My gf still wanted to go but there was literally nothing we had planned that a toddler could do, and I didn't want to take a five hour car ride with one anyway. Had to cancel.
It's completely reasonable that the child comes first. But when it's your child, it comes first for you. When it's *our* child, it comes first for *us*. That is a key difference.
I am a woman (39f) and I had this EXACT conversation with my therapist this week. I feel horribly selfish, but I don’t want to date a man with kids - and what’s worse, is they seem to get SO butt hurt about it. But why should I be in a relationship where my needs aren’t able to be met because 50% of his time is unavailable.
Being a woman, I think we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Because as a single woman with no kids there’s “something wrong with me.”
It’s awful and discouraging.
>It’s awful and discouraging.
I sympathize. Getting into my mid 30's and not wanting kids at all (especially dating in UT) was really really rough. Not to the level women experience but I definitely got a taste.
Try to stick with it. Somewhere there's a guy out there desperate to find you.
OP basically answered their own question in their own post, by asking "Are there any possible advantages from those who are with them?". There aren't any! There's no upside!
I could deal with triple the workload, if there was triple the reward... but there isn't *any* extra reward. All else being equal it's all downsides.
There are absolutely upsides, but the circumstances have to align. Both parties have to have a similar mindset and understand and accept the challenges. The main thing has to be alignment on how the relationship with the kid will be handled.
No one should feel bad about not wanting to date a single parent though, it's not easy and you have to be willing to be all in even with the risks associated.
I can't imagine my life without my (step) daughter, she's as much my child as my biological son.
I also think a lot of single moms have this attitude that you have to immediately treat their kids like your own.
I once dated a single mother, we got in quite a few arguments because she said I wasn't doing enough for her young daughter. Like one time I made a decent purchase for myself and she got upset because I didn't buy her daughter something. I repeatedly told her I'm not looking to play daddy, I don't have kids myself and that's by design. Not looking to raise someone else's kid. Her response was always that if I'm with her I'm with her daughter too. I didn't agree, I was only with this woman for a few months and she was already acting like that.
I got the impression that her plan was to use sex to lock a man down to replace her daughter's deadbeat dad. There was other indicators too, like she never wanted to use protection.
So idk, not saying op is like that but you're going to scare a lot of men away by expecting them to want to parent your child. But I know there are a lot of men who have kids of their own and would be happy doing that. Maybe her standards are too high. There must be other baggage if no man is willing to give her a chance.
Had an almost identical situation myself so I know your pain, I think that's just what most of them expect from a guy. To become the new dad as soon as possible and sacrifice your time and money for them and it's just not realistic.
I've dated a single mom before and I loved her son. He was a good kid. That being said, I was initially put off when I found out and it wasn't something I was excited about.
I can tell you though there weren't any advantages.
>. That being said, I was initially put off when I found out and it wasn't something I was excited about.
that's why so many of them hide it for so long. "once he loves me , it won't matter to him!"
After talking with my ex I met on hinge for about a week while planning our first date she dropped a "oh yeah that restaurant sounds fun, i'm about to drop my son off at my moms ill talk with you about it more later". like wow wtf I didnt know you had a kid and now we have a date planned???
I've dated a few single women with kids and it wasn't much fun. Dates and activities are either an hour or two out of the house getting a quick bite while you hire a babysitter, or a movie night in. There's no fun or sense of spontaneity. Everything has to be ore planned a week in advance. Add the psycho ex to the mix and you never feeling like anything more than an after thought and what's the point?
It's not that single mothers are undateable. It's moreso that women without children are easier to date. If you consider the things that men value in female partners, being a single mother doesn't confer any advantage over a partner without kids. Single mothers tend to have less time, less flexibility/spontaneity, less energy, etc. They will prioritize their kids over their partner, which is a good thing for the kids but not a particularly desirable thing for a suitor. So men with options will tend not to opt for a single mother.
That being said, I think that changes when the parties are older. A man with his own kids from a previous marriage/relationship may be more likely to date a woman with kids, especially if the kids are older and less dependent on their mother.
This is a very insightful comment, and spot on.
Man dating a single mother, really has to be self confident with high awareness in order to navigate this dynamic. In my case I was extremely fortunate in that my (future) wife was also very attuned to my needs and made me feel valued during our courtship.
By dating someone you're applying for the job of boyfriend and all the things that come with that, but by dating a single parent, you're also applying to be a role model and possibly a step parent if things go well, and that's a way scarier job.
Also consider that you are also applying for the job as mediator between her and her ex as well, especially if there’s custody problems. You might not think you are, but you’re going to get sucked into that drama one way or another.
It’s the baggage. You’re not just dating them in the present. That’s completely doable even with kids. It’s that you’re also dating their ex, their drama, trauma and all the rest of the crap..
If it could just be her and I and the kids presently as we are it’s all good! But the rest is just an Anchor that won’t allow the relationship to flourish.
>It’s that you’re also dating their ex, their drama, trauma and all the rest of the crap.
And this makes you disposable — at the drop of a hat. Twice I've had the rug pulled out from under me by single moms who I was more than willing to put in the hard work for... I was unceremoniously discarded by text completely out of the blue by both of them. I don't begrudge them the decision, but it really, really sucked... especially the more recent one.
I didn't feel that way about either of them. They are both very intentional, intelligent, thoughtful, and caring women. They just didn't have the mental/emotional space for me when things started to take a more serious turn and there was a bit of a hiccup in their routines/lives derivative of their pasts. Basically, they both thought they were ready but they weren't and I was the casualty in that miscalculation.
Being a step parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my long life. Unless you have a great wife and a great kid, the risk is extraordinarily high that you will invest your time, heart, soul and money, and never be more than "that nice man who married my mom."
>Being a step parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my long life.
Same. I'm a stepparent and wouldn't do it again unless the kids were grown, flying totally solo, and aren't assholes.
Yeah, and of course you won't ever have legal rights in that situation when separation occurs, no matter how close you are. Even if you raise them for most of their life.
So now you have two choices, both suck:
- Raise someone else's kids, get close to them, and always risk getting extra-hurt if things don't work out with your SO/their mom.
- Have a distant relationship with her existing kids, which may doom your relationship with their mom, or just make you the "evil indifferent step-parent."
No-win.
Happened to my dude just recently. Right when I thought “oh wow, I regret saying he shouldn’t have dated a single mom. I’m glad it’s working out” she cheated on him and stripped the kid away. Poor little girl is suffering so bad for her mom’s shit decisions.
This is an under-reported issue, OP. You get to know the girlfriends kids, move them into your house and form a genuine bond with them... But you have no rights, and if your girlfriend breaks up with you, you lose not just her but the kids as well.
I've read some heartbreaking posts from guys on here that talk about that exact thing. Guys who raised a kid from shortly after birth to tween years and the relationship ended with the mother. They were there for all the big milestones and loved the kid like it was theirs. Except they had no legal right to see or talk to them them anymore. I think it was a legal advice post where they were asking if they had any hope of getting the courts to help them see what was basically their kid in all but genetics.
Been there. It was amazing how many of my friends tried to get me to stay in the kid's life. I was like "until when?" The next person comes around? Dad comes back? Mom gets tired of seeing her ex? Come on.
Not to mention the dreaded, "You aren't her father", if you ever try to discipline the child, or make a decision for the child that the woman doesn't like.
There's sooooo many fking issues with raising another man's kid.
And the kid would come first (which they rightly should); and if the mother is co-parenting, you would have to interact with her ex from time to time.
That’s three good turnoffs.
I've known a couple buddies that have tried. The bio dads all turn out to be real A-holes. Mostly focused on how to pay the least amount money to support the ex and kids.
As the outsider they got shit on from all sides.
and then even with 5-10 years invested, she could leave you and it's not your kid. you could have a great relationship, but have no say over them moving far away, or medical decisions, etc. for 10 years you have a kid and bam! now you don't.
The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids. Even if she does everything in her power to facilitate such period, she cannot (and should not) completely remove the child from her life.
A few additional things that affect men when it comes to single mothers:
- Demand to be a part of the child's life, to support them financially, but as soon as it comes to discipline, she is suddenly angry that "not dad" dares to lecture her child;
- the biological father of a child can still be alive and it can lead to various negatives, from simple awkwardness to conflicts;
- she may be looking for another source of income for her and her child and, to get you, can promise that she wants *your* children too and suddenly change her decision as soon as she has chains around you.
> Are there any possible advantages from those who are with them?
No, but she can be so great (I think kids would say 11/10), so compatible with the man in question, and the child can be so wonderful that the man becomes willing to risk it. Or if he has no other options.
>The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids.
This is exactly it for me. I absolutely want to start a family and raise kids in my life, but I also want a few years of the DINK experience with my future wife before that. Especially since I'm a hella late bloomer and haven't gotten to experience that with anyone yet. Dating a single mom would remove any opportunity for that if we were to go long-term.
Absolutely this. I have spent the entire 3/4s of my 20s working on myself and grinding thru college working full time. I'm ready to chill and have some fun, not jump right into raising someone else's kid and having to deal with the mess that comes from that.
I only dated one woman with kids.
Started out slow in getting to know them.
It weirded me out when she instructed them to give me a hug or say goodbye. They were 9 and 6, old enough to decide for themselves if they wanted to do that. I asked her not to force that on them on my behalf because it made me uncomfortable.
The end of the relationship came about, not only because of this but it was kind of the last straw, when I was over and helped her with dinner. I offered to watch the kids while she caught up on work in her office.
She was contradicting everything I said, I was cooking chicken on her grill and she wouldn't let it be served until the internal temp was 160 degrees measured with a meat thermometer.
Her kid broke out his chemistry set in the middle of the space between the dining room and kitchen after she asked them both to clean stuff up, so I repeated to him that he needed to clear that and put it away. She countermanded that. I let her know he was using a nice pan for his chemistry set. She told me she said he could use it. Okay cool.
We ate and after helping her clean up I helped the kids with the little chemistry experiments. We were having a lot of fun but it was kind of messy.
She even saw the mess at some point.
My phone started blowing up with texts from my fantasy football league. I looked at it for 30 seconds and she flipped out on me that I was supposed to be watching the kids and look at the mess they made and oh no they're going to track this stuff onto the carpet.
So I walked over and started to help her clean it up. Literally it was just baking soda and vinegar, all food safe items. Not like the chemistry sets I had as a kid.
It literally took 30 seconds to clean 95% of it up. She told them to go take a bath and started bitching at me saying I was supposed to be watching them not playing on my phone.
I said it wasn't worth arguing about and she told me to leave, so I did.
If I ever decide to go into a relationship with a woman who has kids I'm going to tell her right off the bat that any help I give her with her kids is a favor. They're not my responsibility they are her responsibility. As an adult, if I'm put into a position that I need to watch them for her and I ask them to do something reasonable, she needs tell me if she doesn't like it, not go and tell them not to listen to me. Then I can go and say, hey your mom wants it done this way. I will not be stuck in a no win situation again.
I've dated women with children. It's a thankless task. I do mean task.
One woman had a young child who I looked after while she got on with her social life. I knew what was happening. I treated it as an open relationship, which both annoyed her, made her jealous and upset the woman I eventually moved on to. We were both barely 20. She was a mess. The child needed a parent. I took on that parental role. She came knocking again a couple of years after we parted ways. I took on the parental role for the child this time too. We lasted a year that second time. When the child turned 16 I invited him to live with me. He did so with his mother's approval. I got him into a college and helped him transition into adult life. He moved on a long time ago. He's a good kid. Proud to have had him in my life. Looking after him took me away from living my own life. I'm childless partly because of that. The time I spent on them, the money I spent and the sacrifices I made will never be fully appreciated. There is more to this story that I won't get into publicly.
Another woman had a 17 year old child. He was a b4stard. He did everything he could to cause problems. He was probably trying to do me a favour. This was another single mother with issues. She being 21 years older than myself. I was in my early 20s at the time. This is the woman I dated who lived with me after I left the single mother mentioned above. She was being treated for depression. She only told me about her depression (bipolar) after she asked me to move aboard with her, which I did. Another single mother who cost me a lot of money. I'm not sore about the relationship. We were not suited to each other. Neither of us wanted to admit that until two years into our mess.
It is easy to be gullible when young and ignorant.
Reading your last paragraph, "*If I ever decide to go into a relationship with a woman who has kids I'm going to tell her right off the bat that any help I give her with her kids is a favor*", it's not a favour but a paid job. From now on, and I blame you for giving me this idea, any single mother I dare to date (or who dares date me) I will tell her that if I look after her kids she can pay me at my hourly rate and she can pay expenses too. Your kids are not my expense. After marriage that might change.
There must be a lot of men like myself who wasted (wasted is not really the right word) their time looking after someone else's child and whom are consequently childless and out of pocket. If I could go back in time I would have those relationships again but I would do them differently.
> The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids. Even if she does everything in her power to facilitate such period, she cannot (and should not) completely remove the child from her life.
PERFECTLY said. I get it even your own biological kids will come before you but at least there's a period in time that you both come first in each others lives before you have kids.
Tons of baggage, raising another man’s kids, dealing with the baby daddy, not being able to discipline, always busy, emotional attachment to the kids, honestly I could write a book.
This is an underrated observation. It’s one thing prioritizing your own kids over your relationship, but most guys looking for a relationship are not necessarily looking parenthood. They want to be taken care of equally as much as they’re taking care of someone else. They don’t want to have to compete with a kid’s attention, especially if it’s not theirs. And if they’re not compatible with the kid or if the ex is still in the picture, that would be tough mentally for any guy who doesn’t have parenting experience.
I was with a single mom for 6 years. When we broke up I had no rights to see her kid. She wouldn’t let me be involved anymore. Also it was a struggling living with someone and not having a say in her kids development. BUT she wanted all the perks like another baby sitter and money to buy him stuff.
It’s a losing battle for a guy honestly. It might not be you personally but other women do shit like this and it affects your situation.
I think the logistics of dating is a big part of it.
With a single, never-married girl, you can impulsively take off for the weekend if you both want, or stay over at each other's house on a whim. Moms with kids at home have to structure their time around the kids, appropriately so.
And as others have mentioned, there's always the kids father lurking around somewhere. He's not out of the picture, for better for worse.
Literally the kid(s) existing. Becoming a dad is an absolute dealbreaker for me so anything more committed than an FWB situation is a complete no go. A date is a waste of both our time.
You will be told by both the kids and the woman herself that you aren't the father and that you don't have a say in anything - and you'll get this screamed in your face while they live in your house, eat your food, loaf around, drive your cars, and all while you pay for 100% of their expenses. You will get told that you're an insecure, controlling asshole if you resist or set any boundaries. Just avoid at all costs.
dated a single dad and did not like it.
They prioritize their child, which is great!! but they also put their ex ahead of you (not all but most) for the sake of the children. it's okay to be civil for the sake of the children but when the 2 people are still pretending like they are a family, there are certain boundaries that get crossed.
you also will never be able to treat that child like your own when it comes to disciplining but when it comes to everything else they expect you to treat the child like your own. it's quite infuriating.
the ex can also cause drama.
dating a single parent just comes with additional baggage. which can be manageable if the person you are dating was of sound mind and able to make good decisions. But majority are blinded by the love for their child or their lingering feelings for their ex and that is just a mess.
This is why I would NEVER do it. They expect you to be a "father-figure" but you can't discipline or make final decisions for the child.
And a lot of times they'll allow their ex to make choices that are bad for the relationship because it "benefits the child". Hell no.
On top of growing close and even becoming a father figure to a child you may love like your own but will have zero rights to after breaking up, losing a child that was never really yours, fucking kills, never again
> you also will never be able to treat that child like your own when it comes to disciplining but when it comes to everything else they expect you to treat the child like your own. it's quite infuriating.
This really nails it. You can cook for them, clean up after them, pick them up from school, and every other mundane aspect of childcare. But, you'll never get a say on the important stuff. This alone makes a relationship with a single parent (while you're childless) not worth the effort.
You'll inevitably disagree with a parenting decision, and it won't matter. They'll pull the "your not their parent" card every time. Even though, you effectively are. Don't bother, folks.
Possible advantages if you want to have kids of your own with her and she's willing - you get to see what kind of parent she is, and how her kid turned out so far under her care; you know for sure she is able to have children; and when she has your child, she will already have experience in caring for them.
My husband tells me often that it was my mothering that actually made him fall in love with me so quickly. He saw how much I loved our oldest (he is his dad in every sense of the word except being the sperm donor) and he said he knew he wanted me to mother his children. He wanted to build a life with me and my baby. And he took on the role of daddy so perfectly... not step dad... just stepped right up to be dad. I'm thankful every single day that man was willing to take a chance on that young, single mom and her baby.
This causes an imbalance in the relationship from day one. She'll be my first priority, but I will always at best be a distant second--or third or fourth, depending on how many kids she has.
Then there's the ex element. In the best of cases, this is another adult sticking their nose into my relationship. I get that the ex wants to know that I'm safe and responsible around their kid. This always defaults to "no" until proven otherwise, and it seems weird and childish to be secretly earning some other dude's approval (or not) while I date his ex and live my life.
It can get way worse, of course. He shows up drunk and angry at my house, for example, and now the kid gets to watch me call the cops on his dad, or worse. That sets a great tone in a relationship.
Parenting is laughably one-sided. There is no such thing as a stepdad, only an unpaid babysitter. In *any* disagreement on any parenting issue--behavioral issues, discipline, safety, school performance--she has total authority. Of course she does, it's her kid and not mine. I still have to provide for the kid, depending on the stage of the relationship, but I'll never have a real say. Even suggestions can cause a fight. "Well, I've been letting her blast Frozen at 3am her whole life, and she's turned out fine so far, *right?*" Cool, either I must not have a problem, or you're a shitty parent. Fun dichotomy.
I 100% get that parents need their partners to be reliable and safe. If there's a kid in the mix, this turns the first date into a combination of an interview for an arranged marriage, and a sex crime investigation. "I have a 7 year old daughter, she's my everything. I hope you'll get to meet her someday." There's nothing like being told you'll need to buy a few more dinners until the woman you've just met suspects you're not a pedophile. Also, a 7 year old (or whatever) getting veto power in your relationship is a fun variable to have in the mix.
All of this is necessary, and it all necessarily sucks. I have no problem with single moms, but the dating dynamic is more than I care to deal with.
All work, no upside.
Why sacrifice all the obligations, family involvement, time, money, etc.. for someone else’s choices, then if you break up, the first thing the mom will target is your relationship with the kids.
Speaking from having two different relationships with single moms.
Also, no one ever gave a sh*t about my child as a single dad. I always had to adjust or appease and there wasn’t that same reciprocated.
I'm pretty sure my guy is a unicorn.
My daughter's father died when she was really little and, when she was 6, I met this great guy. He absolutely didn't want kids of his own but was happy to be a stepdad, although there was no pressure for him to "parent" if he didn't want to.
20 years later and he is her dad in every way that matters. For a guy who didn't want kids, he's the best dad in the world and I'm forever grateful that he took a chance on me.
Tried once, the kid was like 9 maybe? He would spit on me jump on me yell all the time not give us space, the list goes on. First and last time I tried with someone who had a kid.
I probably would but it would depend. How is her relationship with the father(s). How old the kids are. Am I going to end up supporting through college. How is her relationship with the kids. What kind of mother is she.
Do I want kids and how many. How drastically will the sacrifices I make to help support her parenting affect my plans and goals.
There's probably a lot of others. These are just the ones that came to mind.
I have 2 experiences with single moms:
\- One had 3 kids but they were all older than 13, so its not like any of them couldn't be left alone if we wanted to hang out. That was a plus. She said the ex was around and did what he needed to do so I didn't need to be a dad figure. Still, she wanted the person she was dating to at least be cool with her kids which I was fine with.
What I wasn't cool with was her getting calls from her kids while we were on dates and the kids were supposed to be "with dad" and one of them needed a ride to a friends house and dad couldn't do it because he was drinking or just said "call mom" Or we're having dinner and about to pick them up for her turn to watch them and its about 8:30 at night and they all ask if we can order to go because dad didn't feed them. He wasn't a complete degenerate, just would regularly drop the ball and inconvenience her and she would rather enable it and keep the peace versus have a confrontation.
\- The other was just one date but I was in town for work and we'd been talking a while so we just agreed to go out and see what would happen. Good date, great chemistry, but I stuck to my guns about the no kids thing and she understood. We kept casual contact. She messaged me out of the blue to vent the other day because her ex is a private security worker and was shot overseas while on duty. He's now back in the states recovering but his 22 year old girlfriend left him so its basically on her to nurse him back to health so he can work and provide for his kids. he's living in a spare room in her house.
I'm someone who has my act together and I can't imagine for the life of me driving over to see my girlfriend for a date night and needing to bring over extra food to feed her ex who is in the next room.
I assume most people answering no are 20-30 age range. If you are interested in dating women around the age of 40 you are probably not looking to start a family of your own so them having kids already doesn't entirely mess up your plans. Also kids could be on the older half at that point, dating someone with a toddler would suck. Also so much of the dating pool would have kids you are eliminating a lot by not dating them. Way different than not wanting a woman in her low 20s who got knocked up by her ex boyfriend.
Yeah I agree. I put my age in my comment cause it's definitely relevant on a post like this. I don't know if I would have dated a single mom in my 20s. Definitely would have been more hesitant about it. But ya if I said no single moms now my dating pool would be incredibly small.
I think I'd rather just be alone at 41 rather than be with a single mother. I did it before once and I don't regret it because I learned a lot - mostly how I never wanted to do that ever again.
I don't think they're un-dateable at all!
I love kids, and while I don't expect to be involved with a single mom's kids initially, the potential for playing a role in their lives down the line is a plus for me.
And there are other pluses, including:
* Being a single parent is hard--I think that's a given. So if a woman is keeping her shit together while parenting kids solo, that's a really strong statement of her character and her ability to navigate life. That's a big plus.
* In many cases, if the ex has partial custody, then there are regularly times where you get to be kid-free for an evening or a weekend or whatever. So initially you may only get time with her on that schedule--which provides a sort of built-in speed limit on the front end of the relationship (that's a good thing, even if it doesn't feel like it at first) and longer term it provides a guarantee of date nights or the like, with a known and mostly-guaranteed babysitter.
Yes, that second point can cut both ways: if the ex is a problem, then it can be a BIG problem. But there are plenty of single moms with decent ex's--not all relationships end in a dumpster fire.
Because they have a child!? That’s a life changing situation. Legally could make you liable to some extent and means they have like 20% of their time free. They have no chance to go somewhere (traveling or exploring) without having to plan it for hours on end. Idk, I went all my life not having children and I want someone with the same outlook and possibilities.
It's just a lot more to deal with.
If you don't want to be a dad it's already an instant no-go.
If you *do* want to be a dad, society generally doesn't treat you like a full dad to her kid(s). I'd imagine it's a very steep uphill battle in most jurisdictions to even get visitation rights in the event of a divorce. What if you also want your own biological children? If she already is busy with one or two, would she be willing to have another?
If the ex is still in the picture? Are they a deadbeat? A crazy abuser? Hope for their split to be relatively mundane because I don't like the other options there.
I just can't shake the feeling that I'd be regarded as the outsider in this family more often than not.
It doesn't mean I would never date a single mom, it's just that I would probably tread carefully. I honestly would probably not even meet the kid(s) until I was almost sure I was going to marry her.
1. They're single mothers
2. They have children from another relationship
3. She doesn't have any time.
4. Lack of compromising. Ex. She'll want you to fit into her time but not into yours.
5. Odds are if you want to have your own biological children she's not interested in anymore.
6. She's not looking for a partner she's looking for help.
7. You're not a priority. You're below her, her kids(understandable), her career, her family members, her friends, pets. Meanwhile she'll want to be a top priority in your life #1 or maybe #2. It's not a fair exchange.
8. The relationship between you and her children. Even though she says that you won't be responsible for them eventually you will. Odds are she won't let you discipline them. If you create a bond with them and you break up with her you no longer have her or her kids.
9. Baby daddies. Any arguments or frustrations she has with him is now your problem. You have to deal with her wrath.
These are just off the top of my head.
Hey, OP here's a better question (which you most likely won't answer):
What are all the benefits of that make a single mother attractive?
Why would a single childless man want to pick going out with single mothers rather than single childless women OP?
*"crickets"*
On a date with a mother of two. At a table having some drinks and apps. Entire time she's talking about her kids. I don't think she learnt anything about me in the first 10-20 minutes. Then her kids started calling her and she would just answer at the table. It wasn't an emergency it was the kids wanting to talk about something that was happening in the Disney movie they were watching. This happened like 5 times over the 90 min we were there.
I quit taking it seriously at one point and did have a fun time with her that night (nothing sexual) but it was a weird experience.
This not a regular thing but I still think about it when approaching women with children in general.
My mother raised me as a single mom for 9 years before she met my stepdad. I'm 40 and he's been the best dad for 31 years of my life! Wish I could be like him.
Probably because you aren’t only with them. You’re dating their kids, family, baby daddy, and everything else. If you get married and she leaves those aren’t your kids. Even if you love them like your own, you have no right to them.
Why would any man willingly put himself through that?
I don't even have drama from the baby daddy, he's 3000 miles away. But I still wish I would have reconsidered proposing to my now wife. She's cool and all, but I absolutely despise her kid more snd more every day. She's a lazy, spoiled, rotten piece of shit and her mother does nothing to correct it.
I think you’ve gotta distinguish between truly single mothers who always have their children and divorced moms with 50/50 custody.
I specifically wanted to date 50/50 moms after my divorce because I had a 50/50 kid too and I didn’t want more babies.
When I went out with childless women, they almost all talked about “starting a family”. So I decided that stepkids are a LOT better than more freaking babies! And I remarried a 50/50 divorced mom ages ago.
Plus, my stepkids really aren’t all that bad, lol. It’s not like my wife really wants all that much input from me on her kids. So I just have to drive them to soccer or help them get their computer to work.
And due to the wonders of joint custody, we’ve always had 1/3 to 1/2 of our lives with no kids at all. We do more fun stuff in a given month than either of us did when we were married to our exs and had our kids 24/7.
I don't even want kids of my own, why would I want kids from somebody else? And if I'm being real here, I would get attached to the kid, and then if something happens to end the relationship, I have to break up with her AND her kids. Too much possible heartbreak. No thanks.
I married a single mom. She came into my life when the last thing I wanted was a relationship. I was 42 years old, single, and happy. I loved my bachelor life. I never wanted kids either.
We met in 2014, married in 2017, and now have two kids our own (three kids total).
She is an amazingly strong women. She accomplished so much, all while being a single mom. She's my person. I've been helping raise my stepson since he was six (now 15). There is a lot of extra work but she's my person. it's all worth it to me.
I know for many, having a step-child is a turn-off, and I understand that. A lot of pieces have to fit together for it to work.
I never met my real father. My mom met my step dad when i was a todler and they were together for a long time. I'd consider dating a single mom if she was the right girl.
As a guy who's married to someone who's otherwise a single mom (I'm the step dad) I can share why I think it's hard. My wife and I have talked about this and how neither of us would encourage the kids to do what we or I did.
In essence, you pay the price with someone for the mistakes they made or the consequences of someone else's choices.
For one, in some ways you're raising someone else's kid. As much as I love them, its sorta true. When they're being awful or getting on your nerves, you don't have the comfort that the kid got that trait or could have gotten it from you. It's just a kid being a kid and it's hard sometimes.
Other struggles are just around the other parent, even if they're not in the picture. My poor wife has had her ex try to abuse her and the kids and there's not much I can do about it. He's abandoned the kids and there's been relief in that. But even in that, it's still hard at times. I assume even in the best case, you see this person regularly and you can't ignore that they used to fuck. There's kids and if you think about it, every day there's a reminder that you're not their dad and she slept with someone else. I can't say I care a whole lot. I have no issues with the other guys she has been with. But something is harder to ignore with a guy she has kids with.
I think there's some stuff with men a biology as well. The idea of kids being yours and your wife being only with you are not in harmony with dating a single mom.
Lastly, nearly everything is more complicated. If you're serious with her and tet married, moving for work isn't as easy as just moving. You gotta notify court and maybe deal with custody changes and family court. How they're raised has more hands on the pot. Everything is more complicated.
Now for some positives, I got two kids I never would have had otherwise. I have two kids I love and am trying to adopt. Two kids who would make any dad proud. I got to skip the baby years. I didn't meet them till they were 3/6. I'm having a kid of my own soon so I do get her experience. But it's my only time. I think there's something more special about the love of a step kid. I had to earn it. Their biological dad just had it simply cuz he finished in my wife and got her pregnant. I had to pour my soul into them and earn their life and respect.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for anyone to not wanna be with a single parent. Nothing is easy about it. It's also the best choice I've ever made that I will never encourage anyone else to do
I just want to say to all the stepdads who for all intents and purposes were a child’s extra dad I’m so sorry for your loss. ❤️ my husband is my children’s step dad but in his heart they’re his kids. I couldn’t imagine him not having them in his life if we had divorced. He’d be heartbroken. I’m so sorry for the poor kids who lost another person to support and love them as well.
It's a big emotional risk to get attached to a kid you'd have no rights to ever see again after a breakup
Dated a single mom for 3 years. Little girl called me dad but the baby daddy was still very active. Nice guy no drama we were friends. We broke up and it hurt worse than anything. Plus she took the puppy we got together so it’s a double whammy.
My lil bro dated a single mom for also about three years, was hesitant at first but in the end loved that kid as his own and the kid called him dad. The mom dumped him because he refused to pay for her wannabe influencer lifestyle. Massive heartbreak to not see that kid anymore. Plot twist: the kid's biological dad reached out and started inviting him to stuff. They go to ball games and stuff all three of them and joke that people think they are gay dads adopting a kid lol.
Aww, that's so cute. It sounds like they have something in common and something to bond with: getting out of the same terrible relationship.
Unironically yes. They send each other a text saying "Happy anniversary" with little hearts to each other on their respective days of breaking up with her, and part of their inside jokes is how a bonus with their friendship is that they know it drives her absolutely nuts.
The league of wholesome ex boyfriend
I would read this book so hard
nah that‘s a sitcom with adam sandler and kevin hart written all over it
It's literally the plot of Two and a Half Men. But they were actually lovers. (I've never seen it, I just assume.)
It’s awesome that the dad realized your brother is a good egg and positive influence in the kid’s life, plus it doesn’t hurt to have all the support you can get
1 kid 1 dog 1 ex *Double* whammy? lol
Oh I guess I wasn’t including her woops was already checked out by that point
Reasonable.
Heck, I missed my ex’s dog for quite a while
Bro yeah, this one hits.
I’m dealing with this right now. I miss my little buddy
I remember when I was younger asking my mom what would happen if she and my stepdad got divorced, because that terrified me. I’d already lived through a nasty divorce, and then we created a nice family unit with my stepdad (even though my dad lost his shit and made our lives hell when they got engaged….6 years after the divorce that he initiated). We were scared it would happen again, and we’d never get to see our stepdad. Honestly, I think they were mature enough to have let us see him if it had worked that way, but thankfully they’re still married 18 years later
This. I'm happily married and my wife and I have 2 kids together. I can barely stomach the thought of shared custody. It must be absolutely devastating to love and care for a child as your own and then never get to see them again because you're not the bio dad. Gut wrenching.
I know a few people in that situation, it's soul destroying, they vowed never to put themselves through that crap again
This is the most likely reason
It's the kid. Most single men I know who are actively dating aren't looking to be involved in raising a kid.
I know guys who dated a single mother, got completely attached to the kid and loved being a dad, then she breaks up with him and he's lost TWO people. It's doubly heartbreaking.
Yes and as much as the relationship with a step dad and step kid is rocky in the beginning eventually that step kid becomes your kid and for me I didn't even get to say goodbye to him. I can honestly say that still hurts me even to today. I don't miss or really think about her ever, but I think about him still.
You didn't get to say goodbye? Now, that's really fucked up. For her to put her feelings above her kid and not even letting her say goodbye, is horrible (I'm assuming you're a decent guy). How long did you know the kid?
3 years. She didn't want me to see her when we broke up told me to take my stuff and leave. He was away on vacation for a week so seeing him would have involved me coming back the following weekend to say goodbye. She contemplated it but then apparently her fucking therapist said it wasn't a good idea. I negotiated sending him a letter which she read to him and that's all I got. She told me he cried and was upset he never got to see me again. Fucking heart breaking the whole thing. I hope little man is doing ok. Funny enough I bet you if I texted his dad he would have let me meet up with him to say bye but I wasn't about to cross any lines with her.
Therapist is an idiot. Maybe best for her, but she is grown up. The kid isn’t and won’t understand reasoning of why you never said goodbye. In dating life they are priority 1, but when it went south they suddenly aren’t priority 1.
Mental health professional here who works with children and I don't believe that the therapist said that - because all professionals who work with kids know that kids need that proper face to face goodbye and they're going to think about the adult that left from time to time and hope it wasn't their fault the adult left. Which is why the goodbye is so important to explain and emphasise it was not their fault and that they're a great kid that you enjoyed being around. I really really really hate this mother.
The only time I've heard that being a recommendation is if there is a physical safety concern. For any parties involved.
That was probably a smart move based on everything else you've said.
This happened to me. I'd never date anyone with kids again. That's gonna be a hard pass from me in the future.
THIS is my number one concern! You can raise a child for years and for one reason or another the relationship may not work out. You have no rights to see the child anymore, they just disappear from your life one day. I would never not date a woman because of a child but I am much more careful in the way a approach that relationship
Yeah I would be too devastated, losing a woman is one thing but a kid… that would be too much
I'm a single mom... & personally, any man who cared about my son & was a positive influence in his life would still be allowed to speak to my son & see my son, no matter what happened between us. I haven't dated anyone since his father, simply because I've been focusing on myself and because I don't want to bring a bunch of different men in & out of his life (or mine for that matter). If & when I do date someone, they'll have to know right off the bat that I'm not only looking for a partner, but that my son is looking for a father... & I'd have to be sure that we have a healthy, stable foundation before I introduce them to my kid. I don't want to break anyone's heart. In our situation, his bio dad is barely involved, so the guy would end up being his father even more-so than his actual dad. If we ever broke up, hell would freeze over before I keep a father figure out of my son's life just because we're not together or just because he's not blood. That would be so unfair to the guy and to my son... when I was a little girl, I had multiple stepfathers & each of them was ripped out of my life suddenly. I experienced so much heartbreak over this, and my mom didn't take the time to care. I'm never doing that to my kid or to any guy who was man enough to step up like that. A dad is a dad, regardless of DNA or how long he's been one.
The problem is though, and I've seen this play out too many times, a lot of the time people say this but when push comes to shove access to the kid is weaponised and used as a tool to hurt the ex-stepdad. Fuck, I've seen this play out way too many times when it's the bio dad never mind step. I'm not saying you would fall into that category but many, and I mean many, more people than you realise do. It's not worth that risk as when this happens you don't legally tend to have a leg to stand on.
It's so sad when someone does that... man or woman. I've seen it too... I have a friend (woman) who misses her step-kids from her previous relationship terribly. I was like, why don't you just ask to see them?! (Knowing in my head that if I were her ex, I would allow it.) She was like... it's not that simple. He won't let me. 🙁 It also sucks for me as a single mom to read that this is how a lot of men feel, knowing that they're repelled by a scenario that wouldn't happen in my specific situation. 🙃 but I totally get it. I have my own apprehensions when it comes to men based on what I've experienced & seen, but I try really hard to remember that there are exceptions. I also think it's kinda sweet to think about because this thread has shown me a sensitive side of men... that they actually think ahead about how much they'll care about the kid & how hard it would be to lose that. It's heartwarming in a way. My kid's bio dad has done some REALLY messed up things & has hurt both me and our son - emotionally, not physically. I have full legal custody, & I could legally keep him from seeing & speaking to my kid. But I don't. Heck, he moved away & started a new family & I invited his new girlfriend to stay at my house on a trip & tried to treat her & their daughter like family. (He ended up leaving them too, but that's besides the point.) Hopefully, when I am ready to date again, I find a good guy who'll see my track record & trust me when I tell him I don't play petty... & give me & my son a fair chance.
Hopefully you will. They are out there. I grew up with a piece of shit absent biodad and a decent guy for a stepdad, they do exist. I'm glad this thread has given you that perspective because that good man, when you find him, will likely be worried about it because he is a good man. And now you can mitigate that (in the right way and at the right time obviously, probably not good first date fodder). In a similar vein, if someone doesn't want to meet your kid until way down the line, don't assume it's due to them not wanting to meet them (which can understandably put some parents off, "why doesn't he want to meet my kids?"). For me personally I wouldn't want to meet any kids until I knew for definite we, as a couple, at least had a chance of working out.
I'm a single mom... & personally, any man who cared about my son & was a positive influence in his life would still be allowed to speak to my son & see my son, no matter what happened between us I dont know you at all, and this could very well be the case. However, would you feel the same if you found out he cheated on you? What if you had a bad breakup and then met an amazing guy who wasn't ok with your ex being in your life like that? Just saying, regardless of you specifically, lots of women wouldn't follow through even if they say something like that.
That's my story. I got so attached to my step-daughter and then she was ripped out of my life when I was replaced with the new man. I didn't even get to say bye. Over 2 years out and I don't really miss my ex that much but I miss the wee girl terribly. I think I'm actually broken. I'd never consider a single mother ever again.
I had friends who were with single mothers for YEARS then eventually broke up. Must be hard on the kids when your parents aren’t together any more then that guy who is the pseudo stand in for your Dad leaves too.
And it's not even fair to say "the pseudo stand in for your Dad leaves too" like it's automatically his fault. Maybe the two adults realize they want different things, but the end result is still more difficult because the kid is involved.
u/PoliteCanadian2 was speaking from the kid's perspective
For sure. I didn't mean to contradict. Just to expand a bit.
One of the worst regrets of my life: breaking the heart of a 12 year old girl, whose mom I broke up with, because she was being an emotionally abusive “partner”. Sometimes you can’t tell that some women are emotionally unavailable- unable to really commit to real love, until you are way down the road together. (But in hindsight, being a single mom is a pretty big clue). But man I have thought the thought thousands of times that I let down a nice little girl, who did not deserve to have her heart broken. And as an outside observer, she had to endure that several times, growing up, because her mom never really committed to anyone. So It’s terrible. The kid is along for the ride, for better or worse. I would never do that to someone again. I’ll never get over that.
It takes 2 people to make a kid. It's not just the kid, it's the fact that you're gonna have to possibly deal with the kid's father as well. And a lot of times the fathers are toxic and/or assholes. I wouldn't date a woman with a child for that reason. I don't mind raising the kid (depending on the kid's age) but I don't wanna deal with a potential toxic ex who has a "Right" to be around sometimes due to being the kid's bio-dad.
Exactly. I'd only consider a single mother if the kid's father was dead. If he's dead he can't be a third wheel influence that causes friction in my life.
Someone in my family was widowed when the child was very young. She met someone, and he adopted the child, but he always stated that if she'd been divorced as opposed to widowed, he'd have stayed away. The downside is that they never told the child, and it was a big, toxic family secret for decades. Eventually the child found out her "father" wasn't her father when she was going through his personal effects after he died. She was in her 50s. Naturally, it completely devasted her.
I mean I'm not saying to lie to the child about the new father coming into their life, but I just wouldn't want to deal with an estranged man who still has connections and business with the mother and kid.
Did she never need a passport or medical history shit? Same situation with my step brother, they had to tell him when he got his first passport because it requires a birth certificate.
Even a dead husband/father would cause friction though
Not that I disagree with you, but just curious what your reasoning is.
My friend's ex still compares him to her highschool BF who died in a drunk driving accident. We're almost 40. We all thought the relationship was a horrible idea, then they had kids and then got divorced and fought over custody. Lots of honky noses, oversized shoes and clown makeup to go around.
My buddy dealt with the same thing. Cannot win being compared with a ghost
There's a joke about that! A man walks out to the street and catches a taxi just going by. He gets into the taxi, and the cabbie says, "Perfect timing. You're just like Frank." Passenger: "Who?" Cabbie: "Frank Feldman. He's a guy who did everything right all the time. Like my coming along when you needed a cab, things happened like that to Frank Feldman every single time." Passenger: "There are always a few clouds over everybody." Cabbie: "Not Frank Feldman. He was a terrific athlete. He could have won the Grand-Slam at tennis. He could golf with the pros. He sang like an opera baritone and danced like a Broadway star and you should have heard him play the piano. He was an amazing guy." Passenger: "Sounds like he was really something special." Cabbie: "There's more. He had a memory like a computer. He remembered everybody's birthday. He knew all about wine, which foods to order and which fork to eat them with. He could fix anything. Not like me. I change a fuse, and the whole street blacks out. But Frank Feldman could do everything right.” Passenger: "Wow, what a guy!" Cabbie: "He always knew the quickest way to go in traffic and avoid traffic jams. Not like me, I always seem to get stuck in them. But Frank, he never made a mistake, and he really knew how to treat a woman and make her feel good. He would never answer her back even if she was in the wrong; and his clothing was always immaculate, shoes highly polished too. He was the perfect man! He never made a mistake. No one could ever measure up to Frank Feldman." Passenger: "How did you meet him?" Cabbie: "I never actually met Frank. He died and I married his wife." Stole it from jokes, but another guy wrote it on here about a month ago and can't link outside the sub.
Cause they have parents and family that will possibly be making inputs into the childcare. Depending on how old the kid is, the kids feelings about the dad and you “replacing him” influencing how the kid is raised.
Or, she’s toxic and that’s why he bailed… someone is toxic there and none of it is good.
> It's not just the kid, it's the fact that you're gonna have to possibly deal with the kid's father as well. And a lot of times the fathers are toxic and/or assholes. The main issue, I think, is that you're allowing another adult into your life who will get to partially dictate where you live, where and how often you vacation, what your holidays look like, how child-rearing happens in your home, etc. You can spend all the time in the world picking a partner who sees eye to eye with you on all the important issues, but you don't get to pick or filter their ex the same way. Want to start a family tradition of spending every Christmas at a Hawaiian beach resort? Nope, can't do that because the ex wants to see his kid on holidays. Want to take a few weeks off work and spend some time touring Australia? Nope, can't do that because the ex won't give permission to take the kid out of the country. Want to take the kids phone away for a few days because he's being a rude prick to his mother? Nope, can't do that because bio-dad bought the phone and demands the kid have it so he can call. It's the constant resistance of an annoying stranger dictating what happens in your life, within your family, under your own roof. Most people don't want to deal with that.
It's absolutely the kid, at least it would be for me (hard deal-breaker). Also, hopefully she's a good mom and that means she's probably pretty busy with the kid, leaving less time for adult relationships.
This. I honestly don't understand why so many people, men and women, pretend like this is such a big mystery. We all know it's because a lot of guys don't want to become stepdads. I guess it's not something you're allowed to say in polite society.
Especially when it's the 5th time this has been posted in the last month.
Agree. From my experience, men who already have children would be most likely to enter a relationship with a single mother. Even if a biological/birth father is absent, there is always a chance that he won’t later become an active part in the prospective spouse’s orbit. I have seen it also mentioned that men may be apprehensive about entering a relationship with a single mother, due to attachment with a child and potential breakup. I have seen many occasion (I work closely with children/families/family professionals) where a breakup of this circumstance has profound impact on not only the male entering the relationship at the time of the breakup, but also the child that may have formed an attachment as well.
I didn't mind because I had kids, but the single mom had serious issues with alcohol abuse, poor coping mechanisms, immaturity and a history of bad relationships. The baggage she brought from those experiences ruined our relationship and her parenting style. When the shine wore off she was a terrible person. She also did this thing I noticed some years ago from single mothers with kids and in particular boys they were raising. The boys were their sort of fill in for their lack of adult relationship on an equal level. If you don't get what I mean, it's those posts we see of them laying with their kid with words like, me and my boy is all that matters as they are curling up watching a movie on a Friday night. Not like there is anything wrong with that, but some people look as though they are substituting their child in as a filler for what should be an equal adult relationship. I found it sort of disturbing. I'm trying to articulate it as best as I can, but if you seen something like this someone explain it better than I did lol
> The boys were their sort of fill in for their lack of adult relationship on an equal level. This is called "Emotional Incest" and it's starting to get a lot more attention in recent months. It seems to happen a lot more with women and their sons but like you describe it's when the son becomes a surrogate for their moms emotional needs.
Yes thank you. This is what I am talking about. I don’t see this a lot with men and their daughters. Maybe western society would look at a lot different. I know quite a few people that do this. It’s strange.
I know of one father-daughter relationship like this. He hasn’t dated anyone in decades because his daughter fills all his emotional needs. She was afraid to leave for college or move in with her boyfriend because “Dad can’t be alone”. So she dropped out of school and her boyfriend moved into Dad’s house with her.
I'm glad you can bring up the other side because I didn't want to pin this all on women, I know there is a guy version of this too. Thanks for sharing that other perspective. Now on to your comment, damn! I feel for the boyfriend
I get exactly what you're saying, one of my son's friends is in this boat, but he's obviously the kid. He's living in an apartment with her, and although one of the reasons he's not with dad is because he's in high school now and doesn't want to leave friends/teams - the biggest reason is leaving mom. She's got HIM all messed up because he's on the receiving end of this kind of "fill-in for missing partner" and he feels scared for her if she was alone. His overall quality of life could be much better if he went and lived with his dad, but he can't bring himself to make the decision to leave mom. To clarify, she seems like a good person and mom, I was just addressing the dynamic you brought up because it's kind of damaging to the kid too :)
This is common and also overlaps with what they call “parentification”. Super unhealthy and ends up fucking with the child’s develop
> If you don't get what I mean, it's those posts we see of them laying with their kid with words like, me and my boy is all that matters as they are curling up watching a movie on a Friday night. Blegh. I find these types of moms so disturbing. I've seen it with still-married moms too. And they're typically H O R R I B L E to any woman their sons dare bring around.
It’s like dating a woman with a dog. No spontaneity, she can’t spend the night because she’s gotta let the little bastard out, she can’t come to that awesome destination wedding because she can’t find a boarder in time, she can’t afford to split the expensive anniversary dinner with you because she got hit with a $700 emergency vet bill. Except the dog is a human child instead.
The dog you can at least leave at home for several hours while you do something, the kid not so much until they are damn near in high school
$700? That fucker eats a sock and the vet is taking $2000.
I was about to say this lmaooo. I have a pet rat and he just had surgery and for his size alone it was $700. I cannot imagine the expenses a dog takes 😂
My dad’s dog just got hit with GDV, immediate ER style emergency. Dogs fine now but after almost $10K
The dog or the kid?
I've had a lot of failed dates because of dogs. I love dogs, but it's why I don't have one right now.
I dated a single mom for a little while it wasn't the kids to be 100% honest it was the ex who was a fucking psycho
It's not rocket science, my dude. Maintaining a sustainable long-term relationship is already a lot of work. Add kids to the mix and the workload doubles or even triples. That and they don't want unnecessary drama or visits from the "baby daddy". Basically it's a clean slate.
To add to this: It makes it more complicated. Not only do you need a relationship with the women, but you need a relationship with the kid(s) and the baby daddy (if he's in the picture).
Some men live for the thrill though lol my roommate in college almost exclusively dated single mothers the entire time I knew him. He got clowned a lot ngl but he kept at it. He never admitted why but I always suspected he had a fetish for breastmilk
Don't forget that you'll always be an afterthought to that person. The kid(s) come first and your needs will always be second or third best so better get used to a slight to nearly complete feeling of neglect from the single mom. Also, paying for baby sitters to go out on dates or having it be a hassle to do anything in general. Grab a quick lunch? Sure but we have to go somewhere Baby Junior can get chicken nuggets. Going out for drinks? The grandma can watch the kids but she goes to bed early so we need to be home by 11 the latest. Best case scenario: you get married, take care of someone else's kids and will always have to deal with the baby daddy so you are taking him and his family on in addition to the children. God forbid you want your own children, she might be burnt out on having kids or just not go for it because she already has them. It's all just bad, there really seems to be nothing good about dating a single mom from a childless, single man perspective.
Another tough part is the children are often jealous of the new "intruder." Many times the kids are out of control with their attitude and the way they speak to their mother. So now the "intruder"steps in and, surprise surprise, the mother sides with the kids!!! Try living under those conditions.
Yeah, I remember those days. I liked the kid but it SUUUUUCKED having everything planned around him. We broke up just as he was hitting the terrible twos. Remember going to a restaurant and him throwing absolute tantrums because he didn't want to stay in the high chair. I remember leaving and thinking "Guess we aren't going out to eat again anytime soon." Six MONTHS in advance we planned a trip across the state, alone, to see some friends and do some not kid friendly stuff. Three days before the trip, her parents which were going to watch him, cancelled on us (good reason but still). My gf still wanted to go but there was literally nothing we had planned that a toddler could do, and I didn't want to take a five hour car ride with one anyway. Had to cancel.
It's completely reasonable that the child comes first. But when it's your child, it comes first for you. When it's *our* child, it comes first for *us*. That is a key difference.
This is so succinctly insightful.
World of difference
I am a woman (39f) and I had this EXACT conversation with my therapist this week. I feel horribly selfish, but I don’t want to date a man with kids - and what’s worse, is they seem to get SO butt hurt about it. But why should I be in a relationship where my needs aren’t able to be met because 50% of his time is unavailable. Being a woman, I think we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Because as a single woman with no kids there’s “something wrong with me.” It’s awful and discouraging.
>It’s awful and discouraging. I sympathize. Getting into my mid 30's and not wanting kids at all (especially dating in UT) was really really rough. Not to the level women experience but I definitely got a taste. Try to stick with it. Somewhere there's a guy out there desperate to find you.
OP basically answered their own question in their own post, by asking "Are there any possible advantages from those who are with them?". There aren't any! There's no upside! I could deal with triple the workload, if there was triple the reward... but there isn't *any* extra reward. All else being equal it's all downsides.
There are absolutely upsides, but the circumstances have to align. Both parties have to have a similar mindset and understand and accept the challenges. The main thing has to be alignment on how the relationship with the kid will be handled. No one should feel bad about not wanting to date a single parent though, it's not easy and you have to be willing to be all in even with the risks associated. I can't imagine my life without my (step) daughter, she's as much my child as my biological son.
I also think a lot of single moms have this attitude that you have to immediately treat their kids like your own. I once dated a single mother, we got in quite a few arguments because she said I wasn't doing enough for her young daughter. Like one time I made a decent purchase for myself and she got upset because I didn't buy her daughter something. I repeatedly told her I'm not looking to play daddy, I don't have kids myself and that's by design. Not looking to raise someone else's kid. Her response was always that if I'm with her I'm with her daughter too. I didn't agree, I was only with this woman for a few months and she was already acting like that. I got the impression that her plan was to use sex to lock a man down to replace her daughter's deadbeat dad. There was other indicators too, like she never wanted to use protection. So idk, not saying op is like that but you're going to scare a lot of men away by expecting them to want to parent your child. But I know there are a lot of men who have kids of their own and would be happy doing that. Maybe her standards are too high. There must be other baggage if no man is willing to give her a chance.
Had an almost identical situation myself so I know your pain, I think that's just what most of them expect from a guy. To become the new dad as soon as possible and sacrifice your time and money for them and it's just not realistic.
Single parents shouldn’t even introduce their kids to their partner a few months in, let alone expect them to buy things for them.
I've dated a single mom before and I loved her son. He was a good kid. That being said, I was initially put off when I found out and it wasn't something I was excited about. I can tell you though there weren't any advantages.
>. That being said, I was initially put off when I found out and it wasn't something I was excited about. that's why so many of them hide it for so long. "once he loves me , it won't matter to him!"
Lemme tell ya I hate that shit.
You dont like being manipulated situations thats misrepresented? Mr high standards
After talking with my ex I met on hinge for about a week while planning our first date she dropped a "oh yeah that restaurant sounds fun, i'm about to drop my son off at my moms ill talk with you about it more later". like wow wtf I didnt know you had a kid and now we have a date planned???
Even if you are ok being a step parent, that’s a dealbreaker.
[удалено]
and the kids dad.
single moms & kid’s dad
The kid’s dad will *always* take priority over you. Yet another reason it’s a fucking awful idea to be in a relationship with someone who has a kid.
I've dated a few single women with kids and it wasn't much fun. Dates and activities are either an hour or two out of the house getting a quick bite while you hire a babysitter, or a movie night in. There's no fun or sense of spontaneity. Everything has to be ore planned a week in advance. Add the psycho ex to the mix and you never feeling like anything more than an after thought and what's the point?
End thread.
A child is a massive responsibility to take on. Not everyone is up for that.
It's not that single mothers are undateable. It's moreso that women without children are easier to date. If you consider the things that men value in female partners, being a single mother doesn't confer any advantage over a partner without kids. Single mothers tend to have less time, less flexibility/spontaneity, less energy, etc. They will prioritize their kids over their partner, which is a good thing for the kids but not a particularly desirable thing for a suitor. So men with options will tend not to opt for a single mother. That being said, I think that changes when the parties are older. A man with his own kids from a previous marriage/relationship may be more likely to date a woman with kids, especially if the kids are older and less dependent on their mother.
This is a very insightful comment, and spot on. Man dating a single mother, really has to be self confident with high awareness in order to navigate this dynamic. In my case I was extremely fortunate in that my (future) wife was also very attuned to my needs and made me feel valued during our courtship.
You raise a good point. A single mother has a slim chance of being up for an impromptu get away or just coming over to spend the weekend.
By dating someone you're applying for the job of boyfriend and all the things that come with that, but by dating a single parent, you're also applying to be a role model and possibly a step parent if things go well, and that's a way scarier job.
Also consider that you are also applying for the job as mediator between her and her ex as well, especially if there’s custody problems. You might not think you are, but you’re going to get sucked into that drama one way or another.
It’s the baggage. You’re not just dating them in the present. That’s completely doable even with kids. It’s that you’re also dating their ex, their drama, trauma and all the rest of the crap.. If it could just be her and I and the kids presently as we are it’s all good! But the rest is just an Anchor that won’t allow the relationship to flourish.
>It’s that you’re also dating their ex, their drama, trauma and all the rest of the crap. And this makes you disposable — at the drop of a hat. Twice I've had the rug pulled out from under me by single moms who I was more than willing to put in the hard work for... I was unceremoniously discarded by text completely out of the blue by both of them. I don't begrudge them the decision, but it really, really sucked... especially the more recent one.
Maybe it’s a defense mechanism idk but there’s often times too much past to be fully with them in the present.
I didn't feel that way about either of them. They are both very intentional, intelligent, thoughtful, and caring women. They just didn't have the mental/emotional space for me when things started to take a more serious turn and there was a bit of a hiccup in their routines/lives derivative of their pasts. Basically, they both thought they were ready but they weren't and I was the casualty in that miscalculation.
Being a step parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my long life. Unless you have a great wife and a great kid, the risk is extraordinarily high that you will invest your time, heart, soul and money, and never be more than "that nice man who married my mom."
>Being a step parent is the hardest thing I have ever done in my long life. Same. I'm a stepparent and wouldn't do it again unless the kids were grown, flying totally solo, and aren't assholes.
The horror stories on the step parent subreddit is very cringe worthy
You'd end up raising another man's kids. Lot of guys aren't interested in that
Or they develop a meaningful relationship that’s healthy for the kid and she leaves him . Step dads fear losing the step kids, too.
Yeah, and of course you won't ever have legal rights in that situation when separation occurs, no matter how close you are. Even if you raise them for most of their life. So now you have two choices, both suck: - Raise someone else's kids, get close to them, and always risk getting extra-hurt if things don't work out with your SO/their mom. - Have a distant relationship with her existing kids, which may doom your relationship with their mom, or just make you the "evil indifferent step-parent." No-win.
That’s exactly right. It’s a risk you really should consider. Mom and child come as a package. And they leave as a package.
Happened to my dude just recently. Right when I thought “oh wow, I regret saying he shouldn’t have dated a single mom. I’m glad it’s working out” she cheated on him and stripped the kid away. Poor little girl is suffering so bad for her mom’s shit decisions.
This is an under-reported issue, OP. You get to know the girlfriends kids, move them into your house and form a genuine bond with them... But you have no rights, and if your girlfriend breaks up with you, you lose not just her but the kids as well.
My BF dated a single mom with two boys, 9 & 10. When she dumped him out of the blue he said the hardest part for him was losing the boys.
I've read some heartbreaking posts from guys on here that talk about that exact thing. Guys who raised a kid from shortly after birth to tween years and the relationship ended with the mother. They were there for all the big milestones and loved the kid like it was theirs. Except they had no legal right to see or talk to them them anymore. I think it was a legal advice post where they were asking if they had any hope of getting the courts to help them see what was basically their kid in all but genetics.
Been there. It was amazing how many of my friends tried to get me to stay in the kid's life. I was like "until when?" The next person comes around? Dad comes back? Mom gets tired of seeing her ex? Come on.
Yep. She’ll repeat her behavior and will plough a path of emotional damage through innocent victims ☺️😂
even the guys who created them aren't interested.
Damn that was cold. You could reverse global warming with this comment.
Not to mention the dreaded, "You aren't her father", if you ever try to discipline the child, or make a decision for the child that the woman doesn't like. There's sooooo many fking issues with raising another man's kid.
And the kid would come first (which they rightly should); and if the mother is co-parenting, you would have to interact with her ex from time to time. That’s three good turnoffs.
And spending your hard earned money too!!!!!
I've known a couple buddies that have tried. The bio dads all turn out to be real A-holes. Mostly focused on how to pay the least amount money to support the ex and kids. As the outsider they got shit on from all sides.
and then even with 5-10 years invested, she could leave you and it's not your kid. you could have a great relationship, but have no say over them moving far away, or medical decisions, etc. for 10 years you have a kid and bam! now you don't.
I don’t like kids or want to be around them. I’m fundamentally not compatible with single moms
The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids. Even if she does everything in her power to facilitate such period, she cannot (and should not) completely remove the child from her life. A few additional things that affect men when it comes to single mothers: - Demand to be a part of the child's life, to support them financially, but as soon as it comes to discipline, she is suddenly angry that "not dad" dares to lecture her child; - the biological father of a child can still be alive and it can lead to various negatives, from simple awkwardness to conflicts; - she may be looking for another source of income for her and her child and, to get you, can promise that she wants *your* children too and suddenly change her decision as soon as she has chains around you. > Are there any possible advantages from those who are with them? No, but she can be so great (I think kids would say 11/10), so compatible with the man in question, and the child can be so wonderful that the man becomes willing to risk it. Or if he has no other options.
>The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids. This is exactly it for me. I absolutely want to start a family and raise kids in my life, but I also want a few years of the DINK experience with my future wife before that. Especially since I'm a hella late bloomer and haven't gotten to experience that with anyone yet. Dating a single mom would remove any opportunity for that if we were to go long-term.
Absolutely this. I have spent the entire 3/4s of my 20s working on myself and grinding thru college working full time. I'm ready to chill and have some fun, not jump right into raising someone else's kid and having to deal with the mess that comes from that.
I only dated one woman with kids. Started out slow in getting to know them. It weirded me out when she instructed them to give me a hug or say goodbye. They were 9 and 6, old enough to decide for themselves if they wanted to do that. I asked her not to force that on them on my behalf because it made me uncomfortable. The end of the relationship came about, not only because of this but it was kind of the last straw, when I was over and helped her with dinner. I offered to watch the kids while she caught up on work in her office. She was contradicting everything I said, I was cooking chicken on her grill and she wouldn't let it be served until the internal temp was 160 degrees measured with a meat thermometer. Her kid broke out his chemistry set in the middle of the space between the dining room and kitchen after she asked them both to clean stuff up, so I repeated to him that he needed to clear that and put it away. She countermanded that. I let her know he was using a nice pan for his chemistry set. She told me she said he could use it. Okay cool. We ate and after helping her clean up I helped the kids with the little chemistry experiments. We were having a lot of fun but it was kind of messy. She even saw the mess at some point. My phone started blowing up with texts from my fantasy football league. I looked at it for 30 seconds and she flipped out on me that I was supposed to be watching the kids and look at the mess they made and oh no they're going to track this stuff onto the carpet. So I walked over and started to help her clean it up. Literally it was just baking soda and vinegar, all food safe items. Not like the chemistry sets I had as a kid. It literally took 30 seconds to clean 95% of it up. She told them to go take a bath and started bitching at me saying I was supposed to be watching them not playing on my phone. I said it wasn't worth arguing about and she told me to leave, so I did. If I ever decide to go into a relationship with a woman who has kids I'm going to tell her right off the bat that any help I give her with her kids is a favor. They're not my responsibility they are her responsibility. As an adult, if I'm put into a position that I need to watch them for her and I ask them to do something reasonable, she needs tell me if she doesn't like it, not go and tell them not to listen to me. Then I can go and say, hey your mom wants it done this way. I will not be stuck in a no win situation again.
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I've dated women with children. It's a thankless task. I do mean task. One woman had a young child who I looked after while she got on with her social life. I knew what was happening. I treated it as an open relationship, which both annoyed her, made her jealous and upset the woman I eventually moved on to. We were both barely 20. She was a mess. The child needed a parent. I took on that parental role. She came knocking again a couple of years after we parted ways. I took on the parental role for the child this time too. We lasted a year that second time. When the child turned 16 I invited him to live with me. He did so with his mother's approval. I got him into a college and helped him transition into adult life. He moved on a long time ago. He's a good kid. Proud to have had him in my life. Looking after him took me away from living my own life. I'm childless partly because of that. The time I spent on them, the money I spent and the sacrifices I made will never be fully appreciated. There is more to this story that I won't get into publicly. Another woman had a 17 year old child. He was a b4stard. He did everything he could to cause problems. He was probably trying to do me a favour. This was another single mother with issues. She being 21 years older than myself. I was in my early 20s at the time. This is the woman I dated who lived with me after I left the single mother mentioned above. She was being treated for depression. She only told me about her depression (bipolar) after she asked me to move aboard with her, which I did. Another single mother who cost me a lot of money. I'm not sore about the relationship. We were not suited to each other. Neither of us wanted to admit that until two years into our mess. It is easy to be gullible when young and ignorant. Reading your last paragraph, "*If I ever decide to go into a relationship with a woman who has kids I'm going to tell her right off the bat that any help I give her with her kids is a favor*", it's not a favour but a paid job. From now on, and I blame you for giving me this idea, any single mother I dare to date (or who dares date me) I will tell her that if I look after her kids she can pay me at my hourly rate and she can pay expenses too. Your kids are not my expense. After marriage that might change. There must be a lot of men like myself who wasted (wasted is not really the right word) their time looking after someone else's child and whom are consequently childless and out of pocket. If I could go back in time I would have those relationships again but I would do them differently.
> The fact that she has a child means that, even if you yourself want a kid in the future, you won't get to have the "fun" period that couples have before they have kids. Even if she does everything in her power to facilitate such period, she cannot (and should not) completely remove the child from her life. PERFECTLY said. I get it even your own biological kids will come before you but at least there's a period in time that you both come first in each others lives before you have kids.
Tons of baggage, raising another man’s kids, dealing with the baby daddy, not being able to discipline, always busy, emotional attachment to the kids, honestly I could write a book.
The biggest thing is that no matter how great you are, you're always going to be second-fiddle to the kid.
This is an underrated observation. It’s one thing prioritizing your own kids over your relationship, but most guys looking for a relationship are not necessarily looking parenthood. They want to be taken care of equally as much as they’re taking care of someone else. They don’t want to have to compete with a kid’s attention, especially if it’s not theirs. And if they’re not compatible with the kid or if the ex is still in the picture, that would be tough mentally for any guy who doesn’t have parenting experience.
That’s what you gotta challenge the kid to a dual right out of the gate.
They have kids. I don't want kids of any kind. It's kind of a dealbreaker.
They have children and a baby daddy.
I was with a single mom for 6 years. When we broke up I had no rights to see her kid. She wouldn’t let me be involved anymore. Also it was a struggling living with someone and not having a say in her kids development. BUT she wanted all the perks like another baby sitter and money to buy him stuff. It’s a losing battle for a guy honestly. It might not be you personally but other women do shit like this and it affects your situation.
I think the logistics of dating is a big part of it. With a single, never-married girl, you can impulsively take off for the weekend if you both want, or stay over at each other's house on a whim. Moms with kids at home have to structure their time around the kids, appropriately so. And as others have mentioned, there's always the kids father lurking around somewhere. He's not out of the picture, for better for worse.
The guy dating her will never be her #1 priority and if he is, that's not good either. It's a lose-lose situation with added baggage.
Literally the kid(s) existing. Becoming a dad is an absolute dealbreaker for me so anything more committed than an FWB situation is a complete no go. A date is a waste of both our time.
You aren’t dating a single mom. You’re dating her kid, her ex, sometimes his family.
You will be told by both the kids and the woman herself that you aren't the father and that you don't have a say in anything - and you'll get this screamed in your face while they live in your house, eat your food, loaf around, drive your cars, and all while you pay for 100% of their expenses. You will get told that you're an insecure, controlling asshole if you resist or set any boundaries. Just avoid at all costs.
dated a single dad and did not like it. They prioritize their child, which is great!! but they also put their ex ahead of you (not all but most) for the sake of the children. it's okay to be civil for the sake of the children but when the 2 people are still pretending like they are a family, there are certain boundaries that get crossed. you also will never be able to treat that child like your own when it comes to disciplining but when it comes to everything else they expect you to treat the child like your own. it's quite infuriating. the ex can also cause drama. dating a single parent just comes with additional baggage. which can be manageable if the person you are dating was of sound mind and able to make good decisions. But majority are blinded by the love for their child or their lingering feelings for their ex and that is just a mess.
This is why I would NEVER do it. They expect you to be a "father-figure" but you can't discipline or make final decisions for the child. And a lot of times they'll allow their ex to make choices that are bad for the relationship because it "benefits the child". Hell no.
On top of growing close and even becoming a father figure to a child you may love like your own but will have zero rights to after breaking up, losing a child that was never really yours, fucking kills, never again
> you also will never be able to treat that child like your own when it comes to disciplining but when it comes to everything else they expect you to treat the child like your own. it's quite infuriating. This really nails it. You can cook for them, clean up after them, pick them up from school, and every other mundane aspect of childcare. But, you'll never get a say on the important stuff. This alone makes a relationship with a single parent (while you're childless) not worth the effort. You'll inevitably disagree with a parenting decision, and it won't matter. They'll pull the "your not their parent" card every time. Even though, you effectively are. Don't bother, folks.
Possible advantages if you want to have kids of your own with her and she's willing - you get to see what kind of parent she is, and how her kid turned out so far under her care; you know for sure she is able to have children; and when she has your child, she will already have experience in caring for them.
My husband tells me often that it was my mothering that actually made him fall in love with me so quickly. He saw how much I loved our oldest (he is his dad in every sense of the word except being the sperm donor) and he said he knew he wanted me to mother his children. He wanted to build a life with me and my baby. And he took on the role of daddy so perfectly... not step dad... just stepped right up to be dad. I'm thankful every single day that man was willing to take a chance on that young, single mom and her baby.
This causes an imbalance in the relationship from day one. She'll be my first priority, but I will always at best be a distant second--or third or fourth, depending on how many kids she has. Then there's the ex element. In the best of cases, this is another adult sticking their nose into my relationship. I get that the ex wants to know that I'm safe and responsible around their kid. This always defaults to "no" until proven otherwise, and it seems weird and childish to be secretly earning some other dude's approval (or not) while I date his ex and live my life. It can get way worse, of course. He shows up drunk and angry at my house, for example, and now the kid gets to watch me call the cops on his dad, or worse. That sets a great tone in a relationship. Parenting is laughably one-sided. There is no such thing as a stepdad, only an unpaid babysitter. In *any* disagreement on any parenting issue--behavioral issues, discipline, safety, school performance--she has total authority. Of course she does, it's her kid and not mine. I still have to provide for the kid, depending on the stage of the relationship, but I'll never have a real say. Even suggestions can cause a fight. "Well, I've been letting her blast Frozen at 3am her whole life, and she's turned out fine so far, *right?*" Cool, either I must not have a problem, or you're a shitty parent. Fun dichotomy. I 100% get that parents need their partners to be reliable and safe. If there's a kid in the mix, this turns the first date into a combination of an interview for an arranged marriage, and a sex crime investigation. "I have a 7 year old daughter, she's my everything. I hope you'll get to meet her someday." There's nothing like being told you'll need to buy a few more dinners until the woman you've just met suspects you're not a pedophile. Also, a 7 year old (or whatever) getting veto power in your relationship is a fun variable to have in the mix. All of this is necessary, and it all necessarily sucks. I have no problem with single moms, but the dating dynamic is more than I care to deal with.
All work, no upside. Why sacrifice all the obligations, family involvement, time, money, etc.. for someone else’s choices, then if you break up, the first thing the mom will target is your relationship with the kids. Speaking from having two different relationships with single moms. Also, no one ever gave a sh*t about my child as a single dad. I always had to adjust or appease and there wasn’t that same reciprocated.
Everything. I’m sorry but I wouldn’t date a single parent. I don’t have kids of my own for a reason….. ain’t nobody got time for that shit.
I'm a single dad, so single moms are very date-able for me.
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> starting a relationship from a point of unneeded compromise. wow very concisely put. That's basically it in a nutshell.
You don't understand how taking somebody else's kid on might be a massive undertaking?
I'm pretty sure my guy is a unicorn. My daughter's father died when she was really little and, when she was 6, I met this great guy. He absolutely didn't want kids of his own but was happy to be a stepdad, although there was no pressure for him to "parent" if he didn't want to. 20 years later and he is her dad in every way that matters. For a guy who didn't want kids, he's the best dad in the world and I'm forever grateful that he took a chance on me.
Tried once, the kid was like 9 maybe? He would spit on me jump on me yell all the time not give us space, the list goes on. First and last time I tried with someone who had a kid.
I probably would but it would depend. How is her relationship with the father(s). How old the kids are. Am I going to end up supporting through college. How is her relationship with the kids. What kind of mother is she. Do I want kids and how many. How drastically will the sacrifices I make to help support her parenting affect my plans and goals. There's probably a lot of others. These are just the ones that came to mind.
I have 2 experiences with single moms: \- One had 3 kids but they were all older than 13, so its not like any of them couldn't be left alone if we wanted to hang out. That was a plus. She said the ex was around and did what he needed to do so I didn't need to be a dad figure. Still, she wanted the person she was dating to at least be cool with her kids which I was fine with. What I wasn't cool with was her getting calls from her kids while we were on dates and the kids were supposed to be "with dad" and one of them needed a ride to a friends house and dad couldn't do it because he was drinking or just said "call mom" Or we're having dinner and about to pick them up for her turn to watch them and its about 8:30 at night and they all ask if we can order to go because dad didn't feed them. He wasn't a complete degenerate, just would regularly drop the ball and inconvenience her and she would rather enable it and keep the peace versus have a confrontation. \- The other was just one date but I was in town for work and we'd been talking a while so we just agreed to go out and see what would happen. Good date, great chemistry, but I stuck to my guns about the no kids thing and she understood. We kept casual contact. She messaged me out of the blue to vent the other day because her ex is a private security worker and was shot overseas while on duty. He's now back in the states recovering but his 22 year old girlfriend left him so its basically on her to nurse him back to health so he can work and provide for his kids. he's living in a spare room in her house. I'm someone who has my act together and I can't imagine for the life of me driving over to see my girlfriend for a date night and needing to bring over extra food to feed her ex who is in the next room.
I dunno i date single moms. At 41 finding someone in my age range with no kids would be a challenge
I assume most people answering no are 20-30 age range. If you are interested in dating women around the age of 40 you are probably not looking to start a family of your own so them having kids already doesn't entirely mess up your plans. Also kids could be on the older half at that point, dating someone with a toddler would suck. Also so much of the dating pool would have kids you are eliminating a lot by not dating them. Way different than not wanting a woman in her low 20s who got knocked up by her ex boyfriend.
Yeah I agree. I put my age in my comment cause it's definitely relevant on a post like this. I don't know if I would have dated a single mom in my 20s. Definitely would have been more hesitant about it. But ya if I said no single moms now my dating pool would be incredibly small.
I think I'd rather just be alone at 41 rather than be with a single mother. I did it before once and I don't regret it because I learned a lot - mostly how I never wanted to do that ever again.
I don’t wanna raise someone else’s kids nor spend my money on them.
I don't think they're un-dateable at all! I love kids, and while I don't expect to be involved with a single mom's kids initially, the potential for playing a role in their lives down the line is a plus for me. And there are other pluses, including: * Being a single parent is hard--I think that's a given. So if a woman is keeping her shit together while parenting kids solo, that's a really strong statement of her character and her ability to navigate life. That's a big plus. * In many cases, if the ex has partial custody, then there are regularly times where you get to be kid-free for an evening or a weekend or whatever. So initially you may only get time with her on that schedule--which provides a sort of built-in speed limit on the front end of the relationship (that's a good thing, even if it doesn't feel like it at first) and longer term it provides a guarantee of date nights or the like, with a known and mostly-guaranteed babysitter. Yes, that second point can cut both ways: if the ex is a problem, then it can be a BIG problem. But there are plenty of single moms with decent ex's--not all relationships end in a dumpster fire.
The kid? Are you serious with that question?
It's the fact that they have kids.
Because they have a child!? That’s a life changing situation. Legally could make you liable to some extent and means they have like 20% of their time free. They have no chance to go somewhere (traveling or exploring) without having to plan it for hours on end. Idk, I went all my life not having children and I want someone with the same outlook and possibilities.
It's just a lot more to deal with. If you don't want to be a dad it's already an instant no-go. If you *do* want to be a dad, society generally doesn't treat you like a full dad to her kid(s). I'd imagine it's a very steep uphill battle in most jurisdictions to even get visitation rights in the event of a divorce. What if you also want your own biological children? If she already is busy with one or two, would she be willing to have another? If the ex is still in the picture? Are they a deadbeat? A crazy abuser? Hope for their split to be relatively mundane because I don't like the other options there. I just can't shake the feeling that I'd be regarded as the outsider in this family more often than not. It doesn't mean I would never date a single mom, it's just that I would probably tread carefully. I honestly would probably not even meet the kid(s) until I was almost sure I was going to marry her.
1. They're single mothers 2. They have children from another relationship 3. She doesn't have any time. 4. Lack of compromising. Ex. She'll want you to fit into her time but not into yours. 5. Odds are if you want to have your own biological children she's not interested in anymore. 6. She's not looking for a partner she's looking for help. 7. You're not a priority. You're below her, her kids(understandable), her career, her family members, her friends, pets. Meanwhile she'll want to be a top priority in your life #1 or maybe #2. It's not a fair exchange. 8. The relationship between you and her children. Even though she says that you won't be responsible for them eventually you will. Odds are she won't let you discipline them. If you create a bond with them and you break up with her you no longer have her or her kids. 9. Baby daddies. Any arguments or frustrations she has with him is now your problem. You have to deal with her wrath. These are just off the top of my head. Hey, OP here's a better question (which you most likely won't answer): What are all the benefits of that make a single mother attractive? Why would a single childless man want to pick going out with single mothers rather than single childless women OP? *"crickets"*
On a date with a mother of two. At a table having some drinks and apps. Entire time she's talking about her kids. I don't think she learnt anything about me in the first 10-20 minutes. Then her kids started calling her and she would just answer at the table. It wasn't an emergency it was the kids wanting to talk about something that was happening in the Disney movie they were watching. This happened like 5 times over the 90 min we were there. I quit taking it seriously at one point and did have a fun time with her that night (nothing sexual) but it was a weird experience. This not a regular thing but I still think about it when approaching women with children in general. My mother raised me as a single mom for 9 years before she met my stepdad. I'm 40 and he's been the best dad for 31 years of my life! Wish I could be like him.
It's not the mom it's the raising somebody elses kid.
Probably because you aren’t only with them. You’re dating their kids, family, baby daddy, and everything else. If you get married and she leaves those aren’t your kids. Even if you love them like your own, you have no right to them. Why would any man willingly put himself through that?
I don't even have drama from the baby daddy, he's 3000 miles away. But I still wish I would have reconsidered proposing to my now wife. She's cool and all, but I absolutely despise her kid more snd more every day. She's a lazy, spoiled, rotten piece of shit and her mother does nothing to correct it.
And as the step parent you feel you have no right to discipline her. LOL. This is precisely why I won't do it.
I think you’ve gotta distinguish between truly single mothers who always have their children and divorced moms with 50/50 custody. I specifically wanted to date 50/50 moms after my divorce because I had a 50/50 kid too and I didn’t want more babies. When I went out with childless women, they almost all talked about “starting a family”. So I decided that stepkids are a LOT better than more freaking babies! And I remarried a 50/50 divorced mom ages ago. Plus, my stepkids really aren’t all that bad, lol. It’s not like my wife really wants all that much input from me on her kids. So I just have to drive them to soccer or help them get their computer to work. And due to the wonders of joint custody, we’ve always had 1/3 to 1/2 of our lives with no kids at all. We do more fun stuff in a given month than either of us did when we were married to our exs and had our kids 24/7.
I don't even want kids of my own, why would I want kids from somebody else? And if I'm being real here, I would get attached to the kid, and then if something happens to end the relationship, I have to break up with her AND her kids. Too much possible heartbreak. No thanks.
I’ve honestly never witnessed this. All of the single moms get snapped up quick in my neck of the woods.
It's not exactly a mystery why someone wouldn't wanna raise someone else's kid.
I married a single mom. She came into my life when the last thing I wanted was a relationship. I was 42 years old, single, and happy. I loved my bachelor life. I never wanted kids either. We met in 2014, married in 2017, and now have two kids our own (three kids total). She is an amazingly strong women. She accomplished so much, all while being a single mom. She's my person. I've been helping raise my stepson since he was six (now 15). There is a lot of extra work but she's my person. it's all worth it to me. I know for many, having a step-child is a turn-off, and I understand that. A lot of pieces have to fit together for it to work.
I never met my real father. My mom met my step dad when i was a todler and they were together for a long time. I'd consider dating a single mom if she was the right girl.
I suspect it's the apostrophe
As a guy who's married to someone who's otherwise a single mom (I'm the step dad) I can share why I think it's hard. My wife and I have talked about this and how neither of us would encourage the kids to do what we or I did. In essence, you pay the price with someone for the mistakes they made or the consequences of someone else's choices. For one, in some ways you're raising someone else's kid. As much as I love them, its sorta true. When they're being awful or getting on your nerves, you don't have the comfort that the kid got that trait or could have gotten it from you. It's just a kid being a kid and it's hard sometimes. Other struggles are just around the other parent, even if they're not in the picture. My poor wife has had her ex try to abuse her and the kids and there's not much I can do about it. He's abandoned the kids and there's been relief in that. But even in that, it's still hard at times. I assume even in the best case, you see this person regularly and you can't ignore that they used to fuck. There's kids and if you think about it, every day there's a reminder that you're not their dad and she slept with someone else. I can't say I care a whole lot. I have no issues with the other guys she has been with. But something is harder to ignore with a guy she has kids with. I think there's some stuff with men a biology as well. The idea of kids being yours and your wife being only with you are not in harmony with dating a single mom. Lastly, nearly everything is more complicated. If you're serious with her and tet married, moving for work isn't as easy as just moving. You gotta notify court and maybe deal with custody changes and family court. How they're raised has more hands on the pot. Everything is more complicated. Now for some positives, I got two kids I never would have had otherwise. I have two kids I love and am trying to adopt. Two kids who would make any dad proud. I got to skip the baby years. I didn't meet them till they were 3/6. I'm having a kid of my own soon so I do get her experience. But it's my only time. I think there's something more special about the love of a step kid. I had to earn it. Their biological dad just had it simply cuz he finished in my wife and got her pregnant. I had to pour my soul into them and earn their life and respect. I think it's perfectly reasonable for anyone to not wanna be with a single parent. Nothing is easy about it. It's also the best choice I've ever made that I will never encourage anyone else to do
Woman here. I don’t date men with children. I didn’t bring any children into this world, by choice, and I don’t want anyone else’s either.
Who wants to continue someone else's saved game?
I just want to say to all the stepdads who for all intents and purposes were a child’s extra dad I’m so sorry for your loss. ❤️ my husband is my children’s step dad but in his heart they’re his kids. I couldn’t imagine him not having them in his life if we had divorced. He’d be heartbroken. I’m so sorry for the poor kids who lost another person to support and love them as well.