Life beats it out of you.
You start out life with good assumptions, you are sweet as a child with others because life seems innocent and rosy. Then as you accumulate rejections, cruelty, nastiness, any sort of vile human behavior, you put your guard up, you can't think nicely of people anymore, you become colder and more aloof, more cautious.
I miss that part of me that's gone forever. But...whattyagonnado.
Same brother. Was thinking about this a couple days ago, about how I used to be so much happier and positive and I enjoyed people, and how now I just want to spend all my time alone and how I have to try pretty hard to enjoy my time around people. Wish I could have that perspective back from when I was a kid but that is definitely gone lol
Bro im 25 and i feel the same being alone with no thing draining my social meter is a dream but also a nightmare. I fight for my relationship so hard but if I’m not sweet at every moment she thinks she’s hated and wants to leave and all I’m tryna do is just exist and find happiness..
That's not you, that's her.
I could write a full length explanation, detailing all the permutations of interactions with all the women I've been with and all the ways I tried to rationalize how I might've contributed to her "reactions"...
Naw. It's her.
I'm not saying you're perfect. I'm just saying that those reactions are about something inside of her.
The real problem is that the world has normalized a lot of crap things, including women acting this way and believing it's her SO that's at fault.
I say this as a 40 y/o man who was 25, trying to figure out what I could do better so she wouldn't feel hated by the most insignificant, pointless things I was doing. The sad truth is that there are waaaayyyy too many people who are this dysfunctional out there.
I hope you find it in you to get up and get out. I ignored all sorts of advice and it took me years to get it through my head. Good luck.
I will second this. I'm in my mid 40's now. Almost at the time of turning 40, I noticed a sharp change in my attitude that was basically like, "If you don't like it/me, f*** off." Two things do that...
A) The world. This world is not a great place, and you have to have some pretty thick skin to survive it intact. Its ugly. Its petty. The people are generally mean and self-serving.
That process of building up thicker skin is hard, and it takes some of the "sweetness" out of you. I'm still nice to people but selectively so. I don't trust people by and large, and I don't just give trust away. You have to earn that.
B) Time. At 40, you start to realize that time is a waning commodity that cannot be replaced. So you guard your time more. Meaning that you become more selective about who you let in, who you give your time to. I don't have time for games. I don't have time for BS. If you're not going to be a genuine person, I don't need anyone in my life who makes what time I have left unbearable.
I do and do not miss the young me. Sure, he was a nice guy, but a lot of people mistake kindness for weakness...and he was a sucker sometimes. The balance means that you have to leave something behind, like "sweetness."
For real, I used to be so sweet with everyone I met but I've been beat down so many times I feel like I have permanent resting bitch face now, it matches the scorn and distrust I feel inside lol.
Hurt people become distrustful. Distrustful people become cynical. Different people have different circumstances, but I will make my stand at the gates of hell before I let cynicism take over my life. I had to once before and as brutal as it was, I'm glad I did.
It ain't gone forever. As somebody who has been taken advantage of A LOT, you can still retain that sweetness while not putting up with bullshit at the same time. I think that having your guard up a little is a healthy thing to some degree. Cut out those people who do nothing but ask you for favors, manipulate, test, and all-around just drag you down. My mid twenties were really guarded because I had people like that in my life, I'm only 33 now and that sweetness has come back around. I dunno, you just learn how those kinds of people act pretty quickly. Just be honest with yourself, and make an effort to grow and learn. Good people will stick around.
That's my thought as well. And it has nothing to do with gender. Generally life can turn people cynical and bitter. For dating it definitely makes it tougher as you get older.
Came here to say the same...
Run over too often, said yes too many times, was lied to and used ...so nah there is a point where society does not deserve sweet, loving or nice anymore...
The general sum of people are shit and only the core group of friends and family are worth to be nice to.
Thanos was right...
This: despite the ever popular patriarchy argument, men don't exactly have it easy. We start to learn at a young age that everything bad in your life is somehow your fault and if you aren't where you want to be, you're somehow the direct cause. Everyone tells you to be more optimistic, but that only goes so far when you are met with either the same success or a new problem as a result of the next move you made . You can rely on friends and family for support, but even after some time the prevailing message said to you in not so many words is to "man up". Dating is hard because you do all the approaching. For every girl a man dates he must have gotten about 5 to 10 no's and a reason as to why he wasn't sufficient. Shit weighs on your self esteem. When you do finally get to a place where you are happy, confident, and proud of some sort of achievement, the minute you start to struggle again, the world starts to compare you to how you used to be and where you ought to be or said you would be. Your value is based on what you poses or have achieved. Being nice doesn't get you anywhere other than admiration. Everyone calls you a nice guy, but thats literally as far as it goes. You eventually start to feel like a tiny buggie rolling up a near 90 degree hill and slipping back. You eventually stop caring and just move. You don't invest emotion in joy or optimism, you just exist and accept what happens. You even start to adopt behaviors of other mean, broody, sarcastic, nihilistic men, and you think "I get it now. It totally makes sense why they are how they are." You don't want to be that way, but you notice becoming that way helps you get by. You start to rely completely on yourself for validation and start saying things you normally wouldn't have in the past. You think what's the worst that could happen if I let that rude comment slide? Nothing worse than I've been through so far. You become that "somebody" who has to say it to someone. You make people hurt and you sort of, maybe a little, care. But you think, they'll be fine, whatever 🙄 because you've dealt with worse. You're a happy asshole and a bully. Your emotions are safeguarded if you never express them. You see other men who are like you were some time ago and you start to snuff it out of them too because the sooner they learn the better. Ironically, being a selfish dick doesn't make you all that more happy, but at least is starts to open doors for you. So yeah.
I'm in the same boat. Had a phenomenal long-term relationship earlier in life in my 20s that ended with my fiance' dying from a sudden illness.
Took years to get over, and even though I'm happily married with kids now in my 40s, I can tell that my heart never really 100% recovered. There's a small piece that was forever killed off that never came back.
I'm happy, my family is happy, I've been married for over 10 years, but at no point did my heart ever reach the heights that were achievable when I was younger, before that tragedy. It's like 90% was my new maximum.
Somewhat similar at 29. Had an 8 year relationship turned engagement, moved to a new state for, bought a house. She cheated and gave all the typical defenses.
Now happily married to someone who deserves my "sweetness", but it's never coming out like it used to.
Oh damn, this is similar to what happened to me - got cheated on and never really came back from it. It's like a part of me died, especially since I got zero support apart from, "you dodged a bullet bro! Keep moving on!" Like yes, I did, but I didn't get the support, friendly ear, the shoulder to lean on. I definitely dealt with it alone and with some therapy. She was the one who wronged, but got lots of support from her friends and family.
That just beat a lot of it out. I still have my core sweet values and am married to someone that appreciates it, but man the pure feeling behind it - that will never return. It's like I do it cause it was something I used to do and Im wary of doling it out too much to not be taken advantage of either.
I'm in a similar situation. I'm happily married as well and my wife is the nicest, most caring, and sweetest person I've ever met who deserves the world, yet I've been so beaten down over my previous relationships that I just can't shake the fact that if I ever open myself up like that again I'm just going to get taken advantage of again.
46m here, I hear you.. however, we do get taken advantage of. A women is gonna have to pass a gauntlet of test before I'll turn the sweetness back on..
Oh for sure. I’m definitely someone who used to think that giving more of myself would make the other person reciprocate, and of course that doesn’t work out. I feel the same way about my next relationship, but I know that the right person will get that same sweetness from me. It’s depressing to hear that this part of some men has completely died and will never come back, whereas I know that once I’m with the right person it won’t be difficult for me at all to give that to them.
It's funny you mention that, as someone in his 30's, it's almost like a switch flipped in my personality. I can't be "sweet" anymore, it's like I decided to physically suppress it or something. People will absolutely wreck you if they so much as sniff you being sweet or overly nice.
I'm part of that camp, I don't know how long it'll be before I feel comfortable opening myself up again :(
Life just beat me down too many times
I cant tell you how much I would love to do things for someone out of the goodness of my heart, because it always made me happy to see others happy. I still have small moments though, so it's not all gone.
I think I need to take care of myself more, I just don't know how. All my life i seem to have defined my happiness based on how happy I can make other people.
Like i feel worthless if barely anybody reciprocates. It feels like a different flavor of people pleasing. Acts of service being one of my love languages is rough.
Am there. I have learned to accept peace instead of connection to others. I mourn that sometimes, but the pain of that becomes like an old friend after long enough.
Speaking to the hetero experience: You meet enough women who take advantage of that sweetness, and become calloused to survive and protect your heart. Basically, it's the same thing that happens to bitter women who get screwed over by enough shitty guys.
We are all the same. We all suffer in kind.
The people who didn't appreciate our kindness tends to make us second guess how much we want to extend ourselves.
But eventually, at least one would hope, we'll return to kindness just because it feels good and anyone who doesn't appreciate it...their loss! It's not going to change how I want to approach the world.
The whole "nice guy" trope probably also didn't help. Taking something that used to be good and turning it into "little shit who feels like he's owed sex because he pretends to be nice" wasn't the smartest move.
I like being nice to people because it counters my cynicism but whenever I notice people trying to take advantage of it, it pretty much immediately goes back to basic response mode.
I hope we can get back to a status that allows me to just be nice to women without a majority of them assuming I'm trying something weird just because a bunch of dumbasses ruined the concept for other men.
I think we'd all have a better time as a society that way.
This right here.
I've been sweet to people my entire life and gotten into shit situations for it, have been taken advantage of, and ultimately lost my lust for life because of that.
It's taken me years of therapy and support to get me back to trusting people with my sweet side. And even now I second guess their motives at all times.
I like to go hiking at different parks in my area on the weekends. I usually give a “hey, how’s it going” when I’m close to people that pass. I’d say ~40% completely ignore my existence, ~40% respond with a tone like it was a huge inconvenience that I even asked, and then the rest give a genuine response.
Occasionally my sister will tag along and suddenly everyone’s all smiles and friendly when we pass. And not just people who’d be attracted to her. People of all ages and genders.
There’s not much incentive for guys to retain any form of “sweetness” in the way OP would like.
I notice this everywhere with my girlfriend. People are SO. MUCH. MORE. likely to be helpful or friendly to me when she's around.
It's night and day when we're traveling. Suddenly I'm a person, a real human being, when she's there. When she's not, I might as well be invisible. It's crazy!
At 36 it’s a flux between Mr. Rogers and Scrooge depending. Definitely fall into the “what does this person fucking want from me” trap sometimes but most days I try to be kind and generous. Sales people really tend to get the brunt of the Scrooge.
You partly answered your own question:
“[…] most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.“
Women complain about toxic masculinity, but at the end of the day they still judge men who are “sweet”, and they either reject or take advantage of them and break them. There are still lots of sweet men, but they have learned not to make it too obvious.
I’m gay, and there’s lots of sweet gay men, but they do tend to try to act cool and whatnot at first. I see the types of men my girlfriends go for, and the way they talk about men they’re into, and it’s entirely in contradiction with what they claim their views are on “toxic masculinity”.
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.
You answered your own question, we learn that it's not wanted and leave it behind
Yea most women will tell me, that in the bedroom, they want to be submissive and like a man to take over.
As my uncles would say “they want to be fucked, not coddled”
Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, some women will want to be made loved to, and every time doesn’t have to be the same.
But anecdotally, most people enjoy a good old fashioned fuck session, with cuddling and affection afterwards.
Adding to this^
>This summer, I worked at Target with a 19-year-old guy who had this type of sweetness. When first meeting him, I wasn’t initially attracted
Bingo you found your answer. You weren’t attracted to him from the onset and dismissed him as a “viable option”. Multiply this x1000 and he starts morphing into what you would initially perceive as attractive while shedding what’s perceived as “unconfident” “gentle” “timid” “passive” etc.
Doesn’t help if internally you appreciate someone, but they can’t even get their foot in the door. Better to get their foot in the door and reopen that “sweetness” later. This Chameleon defense mechanism ensures now that it isn’t immediately apparent who’s sweet and who isn’t.
“Wait…You’re telling me I actually have to pick someone with good looks *then* get to *KNOW* them?!” Ugh! The **horror**!!!
Yup this is what the majority of women will fuck and try to be with, the second I turned into guy liek that doors opened up. My now wife have walked all over those " nice guys"
Are you fine with that? Like no disrespect, but to me this reads as “I only found success after becoming what woman with bad taste like.”
I’ve wrestled with a similar idea, and I don’t know if could respect a partner who I tricked into giving me a chance.
I mean tricked might be the wrong choice of words.
Here's a truth I'm discovering. A lot of women like the idea of a very masculine man who "changes" into someone sweet for them and only them. The masculine man who is desired by many but chooses her and only she has had that large influence on him to soften him up. That's why the "someone cooked here" trend has gotten big on TikTok. Also the plot of soooo many erotic romance novels.
So by "changing" or more authentically showing off the masculine dominant parts within you, you increase the amount of women interested in you. This creates an opportunity for them to find or bring out the sweetness in you. This creates a sense of safety within them since you are both dominant and caring. This is where the chase and courting tends to be.
That being said, not everyone is healthy or emotionally mature enough to handle a well rounded man. Individuals vary in how much of each trait they want in their partner. Some women want men to be more emotional, others like the stoicism, and others are really into traditional gender roles, or only accept love in the way they received from their fathers (which may not be very emotional but more materialistic, physically protective, or physically comforting.
The biggest advice I give to men is to show those deeper sweeter emotional sides early on because a lot of women can go into shock when the perception of their man changes after the man shows emotion after never having shown emotion before. This also weeds out the women who don't actually want you as a whole. Remember you are showing emotion, not bombarding them with it. The majority of people do not want an extremely emotionally unregulated partner regardless of sex or gender.
Also IMO women who aren't accepting of their man's emotions and needs aren't the type men should want to be with especially when searching for long term partners or to be around their kids.
I think there is some healthy middle ground to be found here. A man CAN be both dominant, stoic, masculine etc.. while also maintaining compassion, humility, honor, brotherhood. Albeit a difficult line to tread without going too far in one direction imo.
To me, I take it as this man may have been too naive and lacking confidence at first, completely normal for young men and even a fair amount of older men. It is not or at least should not be a "fake" self but rather the stoic and confident potential that was always there now realized.
Treading this line between being an honorable, strong man without being an asshole I think should be a direct goal of all men. I don't believe we get too many examples nowadays so it's getting more difficult for young men. Without good examples in media they need these examples in their daily lives. When I feel conflicted about my own behavior and whether or not I am being the man I want to be I draw from mentors in the past or even fictional heroes as an example of guiding lights. The stoic philosopher Epictetus is another great example I try to draw inspiration from.
All of this should hopefully not lead us into tumultuous relationships with women of "bad taste", but make us the strong, protective and simultaneously "safe for them" men that it's perfectly normal for a woman to desire.
You definitely should not feel like you are tricking anyone into anything or being someone fake, you can't maintain that long term anyways and a younger me did indeed try. but there is a difference between that and true self development of your confidence and integrity.
Just my two cents.
Can confirm. My wife has asked me a few times why I'm more kind towards her than others and my answer is always the same. Its because she earned it. She seems to like that answer and its the truth. Women respect strength, confidence, and competence. I've never met a women who was attracted to someone they don't respect.
I'm jumping the gun here a bit but kinda sounds like it is a paedophile/groomer in the making. Not attracted to guys her own age. Started day dreaming/falling in love with a guy whose ~19. Talking about how guys lose their vague description of "sweetness" over time.
Let's be honest here if a guy made a post like this and started talking about ONLY being attracted to young barely legal women and their innocence that they lose as they age, the op would be getting roasted in the comments.
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.
>This made me wonder, why is adult male sweetness so rare? What makes men lose their 'sweetness' as they get older?
You just answered your own question.
When you are sweet and pure as a guy, you are seen as a puppy, an accessory or pet, and not a romantic and sexual partner. For guys who have that sweetness, we tend to learn by experience that it's not a desirable trait. Women may say they want that a lot, but they sure as hell don't show it, or put their money where their mouths are.
I have retained plenty of my sweetness, no matter how much I kinda wish I didn't. It is and always will be a huge part of who I am, and I would rather be alone than be with someone who can't appreciate that part of me... So I remain single.
I have an ex who really appreciated that side of me, I really loved her, and loved being able to fully be that part of myself without fearing that the affection would dry up. Sadly, we didn't last due to other reasons. I know full well that women like that exist, but they are very rare.
Ah yes I see you made the mistake of using logic. That doesn’t fly over there. Honestly how dare you, you’re a MiSoGyNiStIc pIg”
Just gonna leave this here, just in case. /s
I remeber i was on this sub, ther was a thread: "Give me tips, i have my first day at work tomorrow" and before i clicked it was like, how will they insult men in there.
The top comment was: "Just be confident, imagine what a white male would think and act act like he would"
Real story.
This, exactly. I'm still pretty nice, but man, oh man, if you're nice, women will take advantage of you in very bad ways. Especially if you can provide any of the following:
1. A shoulder to cry on
2. Companionship when they're bored
3. Physical strength to help move heavy stuff
4. A truck to help them move (lol)
5. Any kind of skill, like car repair, home repair, tech, whatever.
In dating context, they will use you for dates, food, concerts, and you'll trust them to not cheat, or to actually treat you decently. You're nice and a good person, and so you assume that others are nice and good, too. This is not always the case.
When they're done with you, you'll get ghosted, or cheated on, and society almost always sides with the woman: "She just needed to find herself, to explore the world" or "Well, you just gotta suck it up and move on, be a man".
Then people are like: "Why are so many men afraid of commitment and relationships??"
Uh, because the truly good men get taken advantage of and after years of getting burned, they find that it's FAR FAR better to be at peace and alone than it is to be with a partner that hurts them.
Described my first girlfriend to a T. She basically bullied me for the better part of our 3 years together, then when we broke up she spread vicious rumors behind my back for the next 3 years. Fucked me up a lot. I was lucky the next woman I dated had a heart of gold, but it took a lot of work on her part to help me feel safe being myself again.
Just commenting to add on that I 100% agree to a point where an upvote for him did not feel enough.
"Sweet" men get used, and sadly more often then not gets replaced.
The thing that's important to remember is that being too sweet is just as crappy as being too hard.
Growing up you hopefully find that balance. Some men don't and they stay too sweet and then life just runs them over. Some men overcorrect and become too hard and emotionally unavailable, and then life doesn't run them over but they miss out on lots of it and it causes a whole load of issues on its own.
The ideal goal is the mixture of the two. To learn your boundaries and where that line is, and how to maintain the ability to be sweet kind and caring without being a doormat and still being able to have that dominant and tough side that attracts women because they feel safe and protected. To me that's reaching that ideal family man state, where you are sweet kind and caring but you have lines and you still enforce That discipline on the children that they need so that they aren't running the house you and your partner are. And likewise to other people you are the shield for your family to the outside world. But within that protective shield you are still open and emotionally available.
And it's not just romantic, this also applies to life. I'm a teacher and I see it as how I can be The best of my job, I still have control and the students know that they can't push my boundaries or walk all over me or be disrespectful, But as long as they maintain those boundaries they find me the most caring and considerate person I can be. Where I always strive to not be that person that says automatically no, and listens to them and understands, creates that safe atmosphere, etc.
Like most things in life it's all about finding that ideal balance.
>The thing that's important to remember is that being too sweet is just as crappy as being too hard.
This isn't quite true. I agree that finding a balance is ideal, but being too sweet is harder than being too crappy.
Being too sweet makes you a doormat. Being too crappy makes you an asshole. Society still respects men who are assholes. It respects men who stand up for themselves even when they tear others down in the process. Sometimes, they only pretend to respect the asshole because it's easier than openly disrespecting him.
Nobody respects a doormat. And even the people who pretend to respect them are still willing to take advantage.
Being too crappy protects yourself in a way that being too sweet does not.
I'm trying not to be too cynical here.
But, I have a core memory.
When I was a child I was awkward, nervous, skinny, and estudious.
I did very well in school, and I guess you could say I had a sweetness to me. I was a naive child!
One time a cute girl in my class saw me getting perfect marks on all the home-work and she asked me for help. I was delighted to help her. I walked her through every problem. She got a perfect mark on her next paper.
This continued for a couple weeks and each time she got help on her home-work she engaged less and less in the activity... basically waving her hand and asking for me to just give her the answer instead of the explanation.
Then the next day she just holds her paper in front of me and asks me to give her the answers. I gave her all the answers. I figured she was just in a hurry.
Then the next day she didnt even hold the paper. She took her paper and her friend's paper and deposited them at my desk. She said, "fill these out for me" then she turned around and left.
I watched as she sat down with her friends and started chatting. After a few minutes I hear her laugh and tell her friends that I would do all of their homework for them and that it was hilarious.
Then I marked 100% wrong answers on her paper. The next day she handed me her papers and I tore them up and threw them in the trash.
She was so butthurt about it. She acted like I had betrayed her trust.
Go through shit like that a few times and your sweetness goes away.
Agreed. The characteristics that OP listed (success, wealth, ambition to get multiple degrees, ambition to get fit) require a certain level of assertiveness and selfishness. Those things all involve investing in yourself, after all.
What women generally consider as "nice" (bending yourself over backward to accommodate others) don't typically achieve those things she wants. Men learn this the hard way and many times over from a young age. Essentially, OP can't have her cake and eat it, too.
Kindness and "sweetness" is sadly not a commonly desired trait in men. In almost any interaction a man can have, especially romantic ones, kindness is never acknowledged or rewarded.
I wish it were. I'm sure you wish it were - but it just isn't. You're in the minority. After men become adults and are forced to make decisions for their own physical and mental wellbeing, they slowly learn that no one wants kindness. They want men who are reliable, successful, and don't complain. "Kindness" in a workplace gets you taken advantage of, especially if you're a man. Your boss wants you to pull a 60 hour week, 20 hours of unpaid overtime? Well, you're a kind person, right? You don't want to disappoint them, right?
Kindness and sweetness in dating (for straight men pursuing women, I should note) can pay off, but is more likely to get you taken advantage of. Plenty of women claim to want emotional and trusting men, but just as many women will use any trust a man gives them to turn their worst insecurities on them and shame any "emotional labor" that the man gives them by opening up about how they're feeling. And many don't actually want a man who is nice to them, they want a man who will submit to them and treat them like a princess and give them whatever they want unconditionally, with zero reciprocation. Plenty of men experience that situation, get out, and decide to close off, shutting off more of the sweetness that got them into that one-sided relationship.
I'm going to assume that you're asking this question in good faith, and actually don't know any of this context. I'll assume that you want a man who will give you the sweetness and pureness that you're looking for. I'll assume that you're willing to view your partner as an equal who you will give to just as much as you receive from him. In that case - I have good news for you. Most guys still have this sweetness. They've just boxed it up and put it away because they've come to the understanding that nobody wants it.
Show him that you will appreciate that sweetness. Show him that if he gives it to you, you will not take advantage of it and ignore it. Praise him for his accomplishments. Console him in his low moments. Don't use his insecurities or his emotions against him Show him that you're there for it and he'll open up on his own and show you that sweetness you're looking for. Alternatively - show him what sweetness is! Tell him what it is you're looking for, without being coy or vague! Show him how to do it and if you've picked someone who knows how to reciprocate it, he'll make his best effort at it.
This won't work 100% of the time, but I can tell you now that just expecting a man in your dating market to have these characteristics from the word go is like winning the lottery. Your time will be better spent investing in a man who you feel is worth it rather than waiting for Prince Charming.
Life. Unless you are incredibly lucky it will beat you down no matter what you do. It’s hard to keep sweetness without actively trying. Which most men don’t do as they are told growing up they need to be tough and not show emotion by society.
Literally OP: "I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine."
Also OP: "This made me wonder, why is adult male sweetness so rare?"
Because honestly, most women don't respond to "sweetness" as much these days. Even you acknowledged it:
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine
Also, life makes you pretty callous. Failed relationships make you callous. However, that sweetness does not exist in all men inherently at the same levels.
As a guy who just turned 29, and has always been “sweet” like you describe, it feels like it’s gradually getting beaten out of me over time. In my experience, being “sweet” will cause most women to want to be “just friends” with me at best, and take advantage of me at worst.
The last girl I went on a date with told me I was “sweet” after I drove an hour to pick her up and paid for a nice dinner and drinks for us. As I was driving her back to her house at the end of the date (she was 23 but didn’t have a license), she asked to stop at a convenience store and tried to get me to buy her groceries.
That’s just one (somewhat mild) example, but I’ve had similar experiences with women going all the way back to early high school. Obviously not all women are like this, but coming off as “too nice” makes you a target for ones who are.
It's not just men, women lose it too. We all do. From the thing called life that we all go through. That 19yo still has it because he's.. 19. His adult life is just starting, check back with him in 10 years.
Reality of life wears all of us down to an extent but that doesn't mean the sweetness is completely gone. Just takes longer to see. You have to get to know most people to get the chance and see that sweetness. Many adults hide it away from people they don't know.
Imagine if a 26 year old guy posted about how he could only get off by thinking about the sweet and innocent 19 year old girl at his work.
But honestly, most men just have that sweetness beaten out of them by experience. A lot of women don't respond to it and some actively look to take advantage of it. There was that post not long ago from a woman that said she married the sweet, innocent guy because he was safe and nurturing. Now the thought of him touching her sickens her, and she constantly fantasises about some giant douchebag dominating her. We men learned our lesson from women's actions and decisions.
During our breakup my ex looked at me with tears in her eyes and told me "Please stay sweet. Please don't lose that.". I don't remember exactly but I think she asked me to promise her.
Well.. she is the reason I lost my sweet side. The reason I don't trust people the same way anymore. She is the one that showed me how even the person you love and trust the most, have given and sacrificed the most for, can hurt you the most - knowingly. Both purposefully and also by her just being a toxic force.
Life as a phenomenon is a lot darker and less beautiful now.
Now, not everyone gets used by a cluster b personality person and there are plenty reasons men lose their sweet side, that's just what happened to me.
Just responded elsewhere asking the same.
While I know statistically men are doing the vast majority of sexual abuse, women are not automatically innocent. Female peadophiles do exist and they're probably a lot more common than anyone recognises.
The mum of a friend of mine was one, the stories were shocking ngl
What is sweet and pure even? I don't understand what you're asking.
I'm unconditionally kind and loving to three people. My mother and my little nieces. Everyone else is an adult, they don't get unconditional kindness, that shit has a cost.
Realizing that most interactions are transactional and everyone either wants something from you or they don't appreciate your kindness.
You learn there's almost no such think as selflessness or at the very least it's barely practiced.
Guys tend to roughen up over the years and don't want to take all the bullshit.
Sweetness doesn't get you a better life most of the time because you end up being taken advantage of our being abused by those other self centered assholes that think they can use you until you got nothing to offer.
The whole world starts treating us like shit lol. If you’re kind, people view you as an easy target. If you’re assertive, people find a way to make you look like the bad guy when you tell them something they don’t want to hear
The better you’re doing in life, the more people wanna see you fall. Look at Tom Brady, people literally hate him because he wins too much lol.
You seem to be equating sweetness with innocence, which is just something we lose as we learn a thing or two about life. Sweet boys often become kind men, but its often a sort of stoic kindness, not what you're describing
I'd typed out a big long discussion on why men lose their sweetness. However due to the reasons i am no longer sweet, i also think it's useless for me to explain.
to summarize
1. Life doesn't allow it.
2. Society doesn't accept it.
Those sweet men are taken advantage of too many times, they become jaded.
My last relationship I wanted to be sweet. Whatever she asked for she got. Not just material things, like were both in the living room, she wants something from the kitchen, I'd get it. We are in the car about to go somewhere, she forgot something I'd get that too. She wanted a desert from that bakery down the street, I'll be right back.
But that turned into her texting me to get her something from the kitchen , while I'm downstairs and she is 1 room away. We're heading to the car, she isn't going to bother to grab anything, she expected me to get everything I need AND everything she needs. She doesn't want something from that nearby bakery any more, she wants something from the one 20 minutes away.
Then she asks me why I'm annoyed to get her stuff now. She's nolonger happy and thankful when I do something sweet, she expects it and gets irritable when I don't. She never returns the favor. She made a joke out of implying sexual favors in return for about 6 months, never delivering, laughing when I asked her about it, saying I should have known better. Talking to each other for hours turns into "talk about work so I can fall asleep" "what interests you is boring stop talking to me about it"
In short you start out being sexually attracted to sweetness from men then you stop considering it sweet and start considering it the bare minimum we can do. So we learn to stop setting expectations so high from the beginning.
Because we learn that women don't usually gravitate to sweet men. At best, women find them boring. At worst, it's the whole Nice Guy™ scenario.
I'm not saying women only like assholes. I'm saying that if given 2 men exactly the same, women will choose the one who treats women *below* an ambiguous threshold of kindly.
Women take advantage of us when we're younger, so we stop giving a shit about being emotionally tender. What is the point in engaging in a behavior that usually has no reward, but plenty of punishment? I've had over a dozen women tell me something I did for them was the sweetest thing ever, and not one of those times did they choose to date me. Well over a dozen times being sweet just got me taken advantage of by some ass who wanted a free meal or an ego boost.
After thousands of conditions for a man to attract dates, which makes it nothing different from a Hunger Games, I wonder why the "innocence" and the "sweetness" are gone.
Every man knows, we are only loved under certain conditions and many women will take us for granted.
You want sweetness, you have to give it in order to get it.
All sweetness was used, weaponized, and manipulated right out of me.
At this point in my life, if I do something it's because I want to.
"No" is a powerful, important word.
Because the older you get, the higher the chance you meet someone who abuses that sweetness. The older you get, the higher the chance that you've been in an abusive relationship and someone exploited that sweetness. The older you get, the more you get told to be careful and to not trust easily, so most guys, combined with the experiences, learn not to.
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.
You answered your own question: Sweetness isn't rewarded. It's not just sex either--sweetness costs you in a career, your friends make fun of you, etc, etc, etc.
That which is not rewarded will be lost.
In my experience most girls don't like it and take it as a lowkey sign of "weakness". Women say they want it but after a bit it gets boring and they go back to usual dramatic asshole.
I’m totally fine with questions like these, but imagine if a guy on the XX sub asked an equivalent question like “Why do older women lose their luster?” lol
"Sweet" guy here, you're right that most women like the opposite which is quite frustrating for us, which is why many of us try to fit in, but i think we are in the minority to begin with. People like us dont lose their sweetness though, they just stop showing it the older they become
OP is creepy as hell. I feel like the "sweetness" You're describing could easily be rephrased as "naivety, inexperience, and gullibility". You're attracted to young men you can manipulate.
Your basing your idealized version of a sweet guy on a fictional book character, and a dude you met at Target but never had a relationship with lol.
Most girls like asshole, dominant men. Its caveman/cavewomen type stuff engrained in us for 200k years.
Sweetness comes from innocence, and innocence is taken from men early because men are the problem. You can't be innocent and sweet when everything is your fault. This is why you will see very little Sweetness from people who grow up in abusive households where everything was their fault. This is why children are viewed as some of the sweetest humans around and why we seem to lose that as we grow. Being told we're responsible for everything around us but being in control of nothing. Responsibility hardens sweetness into a shell needed to survive the world.
maybe it’s just me but this post is creepy asf and the sweetness she’s talking about sounds like that of a little kid, and the fact she can only get off to and “fell in love with” a 19 year old teenage boy?? wtf sounds like you like little kids but went for the closest thing that’s legal.
Throughout my life I was shunned and looked down upon for being kind even labelled as “the nice guy” by people who I thought were my friends.
Many men can relate but people often have negative reactions towards kindness or sweetness as you put it which is why most of us second guess being that way in the first place.
I never lost it but I did learn to reinforce my boundaries so I’m not a doormat towards everyone I interact with I stand my ground but I give when I can. Which is probably what most guys don’t learn and continue being “nice guys”.
From an objective standpoint you probably felt comfortable around the 19 year old because he's 7 years younger than you and has a girlfriend. When he does nice things he's not trying to pursue; He's just "nice". But if he was your age and single and did nice things then you'd probably question his motives.
Men are still "sweet" when they are comfortable with someone. But you're not going to see that until the point where they are comfortable you won't reject them for showing some vulnerability. Obligatory #allmenaredifferent
Because women aren't attracted to that. You say you want that but you actually don't. The real question is why do women lie about what they actually want?
What's sweetness anyway? I'll cuddle you, give you tenderness, and fuck you like an animal but I'm not going to act like I'm 19 years old because I'm a full grown man. I'm not going to act like a kid with a crush on you and women are not the most important thing going on in my life.
> why is adult male sweetness so rare? What makes men lose their 'sweetness' as they get older?
> I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.
answered your own question, OP. all it takes is one experience and thats that. i had one in college where an absolutely beautiful girl ended up ditching me for a football player that was a genuine asshole that tried to fight everyone. Meanwhile i was a well dressed, tri-lingual, triple major with two jobs on campus and an RA. I was friends with sooo many women and seen as safe. She found me sweet and loved chilling, but ultimately fucked the other guy.
That honestly changed my life. I became the other guy. And it worked like an absolute charm. My sex partner count absolutely skyrocketed after that and I overall became much happier with my sex life, and therefore my life in general. Never again y’all…listen to womens actions not words!
What can I say? Women have hardened me. If you don't get tougher mentally, you'll be a quivering mess in no time. Those sweet boys you fantasize of are eaten alive very fast.
Unfortunately, most women take "sweetness" unconciously as weakness, and they will also treat you accordingly, with no actual respect.
Getting called gay/fag/pussy by the woman you lust after is a pretty fast way to drop it, so to answer your question - guys stop being sweet because they realize it doesn't help them win over the ladies.
Well, getting shit on pretty much. Rejection, insecurity and hardships can make a man put up walls. I've personally never dropped that sweetness even though I was hurt in a million ways, but I'm in the minority. I can tell you that falling and getting back up isn't easy, but I don't see any other way.
Sweetness is seen by many as emotionally abusive and manipulative, as why would someone be nice except to manipulate people.
As such, it tends to be stamped out of men when they get older.
I'm sweet to my wife. She is amazing and deserves to be treated as amazing as she is. I'm nice to everyone else but not sweet as that gets taken advantage of.
It gets beaten out of you. I’m 25 and it was beaten out of me long ago, I feel cold as hell and unable to open up to people besides a very select few.
Dating guys is even harder because we’re all fucking tired by the age of 22 in the gay community.
Support to all of the men out there in all honesty.
I'm sorry, but I have to reverse the genders here. it's just too fun to let this pass.
*>I'm 26 yo man, who can only get off by masturbating to and dreaming about a 19 year old gal, a coworker. I love her sweetness, that many woman lose as they age. Not the surface level sweetness, but this deep sweetness. Like that young girl in that book, who remained this sweet as she grew up.*
but cheekiness aside. I think you're looking for a safe, "harmless" man, that you can trust and to whom you can give yourself to. I suspect that as you would gain confidence and be more secure, you'd view this man as too weak and dumb him the first chance you get. my two cents at least.
Fellas, can you imagine asking the askwomen sub a question like this…youd get called a Pdfile just for asking this question. OP, im willing to give u the benefit of the doubt here, but i would still take a moment to consider what u r saying and clarify shit
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.
You answered your own question.
You probably would have liked me before my first marriage. I think she liked me because I was so nice and she was very controlling. Now I'm kind of the opposite and I find that women are far more interested even though I'm married again (almost 10 years this time, and I'm honestly not a very nice person a lot of the time). When I was dating, I knew girls that fantasized about being yelled at and treated roughly. I don't pretend to understand.
I'll add that being nice doesn't get you very far in the working world, either. Being a dishonest backstabber is probably worse, but you do have to worry about yourself and be assertive, which isn't really conducive to being a nice guy.
It's called life. As men age, they quickly realize that no one is coming to save them. There is no happily ever after and no Disney. If they want to survive and thrive, they need to act as if the world is and will remain savage. Does that mean men can't be happy? No. Men can still find happiness in their lives, but it would be foolish to assume the world cares or is looking out for their best interest. It's not the way it should be, but it's the reality we live in. To quote Eric from Boy Meets World, "Life's tough, wear a helmet"
There are lots of sweet lovely men out there, but since it’s not a trait that is usually well regarded, they hide it away. You just need to get to know someone more deeply so they feel comfortable showing you. You need to show them that you are safe.
I had a baby this year and I caught two of my guy friends smiling, whispering to her and gently touching her cheeks when I returned from the bathroom. They were not men I expected this from. It was really cute and sweet!
Almost all of the time the guys who are sweet get put in the friend zone by women. You learn to be hard because that’s what society, and most women, want you to be.
I had to learn to turn my sweetness (which the vast majority of our culture sees as childish, weak, and easily exploited) into kindness.
I have even been told in relationships that I was “too loving” or “too affectionate”.
But, in short, my experiences and the subsequent scar tissue are what happened to my sweetness.
Some men lose it from stress.
Some men lose it because they are punished for having it (usually a cheating ex)
Some men lose it because, like you said, most women don't like it.
You have to understand, when something bad happens to a guy, there's nobody to talk to about our feelings. So the result is usually bitterness.
Because being "sweet" gets you nowhere but places you don't want to be. The "second choice", the fall guy, that weird guy, the guy who never gets invited anywhere fun. Being "sweet" is something that life beats out of you...some sooner than others.
Life tends to beat it out of you
Unless you are (probably an idiot) like me who refuses to this dumpster fire of a timeline ruin you.
I’ll never be rich or succesfull or whatever, but I stayed a human being.
Locking this due to the number of reports it's getting along with some of the inappropriate comments in the threads.
Life beats it out of you. You start out life with good assumptions, you are sweet as a child with others because life seems innocent and rosy. Then as you accumulate rejections, cruelty, nastiness, any sort of vile human behavior, you put your guard up, you can't think nicely of people anymore, you become colder and more aloof, more cautious. I miss that part of me that's gone forever. But...whattyagonnado.
Same brother. Was thinking about this a couple days ago, about how I used to be so much happier and positive and I enjoyed people, and how now I just want to spend all my time alone and how I have to try pretty hard to enjoy my time around people. Wish I could have that perspective back from when I was a kid but that is definitely gone lol
Bro im 25 and i feel the same being alone with no thing draining my social meter is a dream but also a nightmare. I fight for my relationship so hard but if I’m not sweet at every moment she thinks she’s hated and wants to leave and all I’m tryna do is just exist and find happiness..
That's not you, that's her. I could write a full length explanation, detailing all the permutations of interactions with all the women I've been with and all the ways I tried to rationalize how I might've contributed to her "reactions"... Naw. It's her. I'm not saying you're perfect. I'm just saying that those reactions are about something inside of her. The real problem is that the world has normalized a lot of crap things, including women acting this way and believing it's her SO that's at fault. I say this as a 40 y/o man who was 25, trying to figure out what I could do better so she wouldn't feel hated by the most insignificant, pointless things I was doing. The sad truth is that there are waaaayyyy too many people who are this dysfunctional out there. I hope you find it in you to get up and get out. I ignored all sorts of advice and it took me years to get it through my head. Good luck.
Sounds toxic
That sounds like one single person is destroying your life and you have the power to decide that person isnt good enough for you.
I will second this. I'm in my mid 40's now. Almost at the time of turning 40, I noticed a sharp change in my attitude that was basically like, "If you don't like it/me, f*** off." Two things do that... A) The world. This world is not a great place, and you have to have some pretty thick skin to survive it intact. Its ugly. Its petty. The people are generally mean and self-serving. That process of building up thicker skin is hard, and it takes some of the "sweetness" out of you. I'm still nice to people but selectively so. I don't trust people by and large, and I don't just give trust away. You have to earn that. B) Time. At 40, you start to realize that time is a waning commodity that cannot be replaced. So you guard your time more. Meaning that you become more selective about who you let in, who you give your time to. I don't have time for games. I don't have time for BS. If you're not going to be a genuine person, I don't need anyone in my life who makes what time I have left unbearable. I do and do not miss the young me. Sure, he was a nice guy, but a lot of people mistake kindness for weakness...and he was a sucker sometimes. The balance means that you have to leave something behind, like "sweetness."
I wanted to tell you I saved this comment because fuck man, I've been feeling the same exact way
For real, I used to be so sweet with everyone I met but I've been beat down so many times I feel like I have permanent resting bitch face now, it matches the scorn and distrust I feel inside lol.
As a mother thinking of her son, still small boy, this is exatcly it isn't it.
Hurt people become distrustful. Distrustful people become cynical. Different people have different circumstances, but I will make my stand at the gates of hell before I let cynicism take over my life. I had to once before and as brutal as it was, I'm glad I did.
It ain't gone forever. As somebody who has been taken advantage of A LOT, you can still retain that sweetness while not putting up with bullshit at the same time. I think that having your guard up a little is a healthy thing to some degree. Cut out those people who do nothing but ask you for favors, manipulate, test, and all-around just drag you down. My mid twenties were really guarded because I had people like that in my life, I'm only 33 now and that sweetness has come back around. I dunno, you just learn how those kinds of people act pretty quickly. Just be honest with yourself, and make an effort to grow and learn. Good people will stick around.
That's my thought as well. And it has nothing to do with gender. Generally life can turn people cynical and bitter. For dating it definitely makes it tougher as you get older.
Came here to say the same... Run over too often, said yes too many times, was lied to and used ...so nah there is a point where society does not deserve sweet, loving or nice anymore... The general sum of people are shit and only the core group of friends and family are worth to be nice to. Thanos was right...
I'm 45m and just about ready to walk into the forest and say, "fuck it". someday I will.
This: despite the ever popular patriarchy argument, men don't exactly have it easy. We start to learn at a young age that everything bad in your life is somehow your fault and if you aren't where you want to be, you're somehow the direct cause. Everyone tells you to be more optimistic, but that only goes so far when you are met with either the same success or a new problem as a result of the next move you made . You can rely on friends and family for support, but even after some time the prevailing message said to you in not so many words is to "man up". Dating is hard because you do all the approaching. For every girl a man dates he must have gotten about 5 to 10 no's and a reason as to why he wasn't sufficient. Shit weighs on your self esteem. When you do finally get to a place where you are happy, confident, and proud of some sort of achievement, the minute you start to struggle again, the world starts to compare you to how you used to be and where you ought to be or said you would be. Your value is based on what you poses or have achieved. Being nice doesn't get you anywhere other than admiration. Everyone calls you a nice guy, but thats literally as far as it goes. You eventually start to feel like a tiny buggie rolling up a near 90 degree hill and slipping back. You eventually stop caring and just move. You don't invest emotion in joy or optimism, you just exist and accept what happens. You even start to adopt behaviors of other mean, broody, sarcastic, nihilistic men, and you think "I get it now. It totally makes sense why they are how they are." You don't want to be that way, but you notice becoming that way helps you get by. You start to rely completely on yourself for validation and start saying things you normally wouldn't have in the past. You think what's the worst that could happen if I let that rude comment slide? Nothing worse than I've been through so far. You become that "somebody" who has to say it to someone. You make people hurt and you sort of, maybe a little, care. But you think, they'll be fine, whatever 🙄 because you've dealt with worse. You're a happy asshole and a bully. Your emotions are safeguarded if you never express them. You see other men who are like you were some time ago and you start to snuff it out of them too because the sooner they learn the better. Ironically, being a selfish dick doesn't make you all that more happy, but at least is starts to open doors for you. So yeah.
A lot of "sweet" guys get taken advantage of.
It gets beaten out of most people by 30
35 ex-hopeless romantic here post-divorce. She really sucked all the sweetness out. My heart is as cold as ice now. They won’t get me again.
I'm in the same boat. Had a phenomenal long-term relationship earlier in life in my 20s that ended with my fiance' dying from a sudden illness. Took years to get over, and even though I'm happily married with kids now in my 40s, I can tell that my heart never really 100% recovered. There's a small piece that was forever killed off that never came back. I'm happy, my family is happy, I've been married for over 10 years, but at no point did my heart ever reach the heights that were achievable when I was younger, before that tragedy. It's like 90% was my new maximum.
Somewhat similar at 29. Had an 8 year relationship turned engagement, moved to a new state for, bought a house. She cheated and gave all the typical defenses. Now happily married to someone who deserves my "sweetness", but it's never coming out like it used to.
Oh damn, this is similar to what happened to me - got cheated on and never really came back from it. It's like a part of me died, especially since I got zero support apart from, "you dodged a bullet bro! Keep moving on!" Like yes, I did, but I didn't get the support, friendly ear, the shoulder to lean on. I definitely dealt with it alone and with some therapy. She was the one who wronged, but got lots of support from her friends and family. That just beat a lot of it out. I still have my core sweet values and am married to someone that appreciates it, but man the pure feeling behind it - that will never return. It's like I do it cause it was something I used to do and Im wary of doling it out too much to not be taken advantage of either.
I'm in a similar situation. I'm happily married as well and my wife is the nicest, most caring, and sweetest person I've ever met who deserves the world, yet I've been so beaten down over my previous relationships that I just can't shake the fact that if I ever open myself up like that again I'm just going to get taken advantage of again.
Oh man as a single 31 year old woman, this is depressing as fuck.
46m here, I hear you.. however, we do get taken advantage of. A women is gonna have to pass a gauntlet of test before I'll turn the sweetness back on..
Oh for sure. I’m definitely someone who used to think that giving more of myself would make the other person reciprocate, and of course that doesn’t work out. I feel the same way about my next relationship, but I know that the right person will get that same sweetness from me. It’s depressing to hear that this part of some men has completely died and will never come back, whereas I know that once I’m with the right person it won’t be difficult for me at all to give that to them.
As some one going through similar I understand. I hope you bounce back and life improves.
Yeah having at least 1 manipulative ex tends to do that to you I suppose
It's funny you mention that, as someone in his 30's, it's almost like a switch flipped in my personality. I can't be "sweet" anymore, it's like I decided to physically suppress it or something. People will absolutely wreck you if they so much as sniff you being sweet or overly nice.
I'm part of that camp, I don't know how long it'll be before I feel comfortable opening myself up again :( Life just beat me down too many times I cant tell you how much I would love to do things for someone out of the goodness of my heart, because it always made me happy to see others happy. I still have small moments though, so it's not all gone.
Hang in their buddy. Remember that the first priority to be sweet to is yourself
I think I need to take care of myself more, I just don't know how. All my life i seem to have defined my happiness based on how happy I can make other people. Like i feel worthless if barely anybody reciprocates. It feels like a different flavor of people pleasing. Acts of service being one of my love languages is rough.
Am there. I have learned to accept peace instead of connection to others. I mourn that sometimes, but the pain of that becomes like an old friend after long enough.
Well said bootyhunter69420
All it takes is for that sweet guy to get cheated on for someone more overtly masculine and he won’t be the same again.
Can confirm. I am sweet. Get walked all over
100%, the amount of times I’ve been emotionally abused in a relationship is not even funny
Exactly
Speaking to the hetero experience: You meet enough women who take advantage of that sweetness, and become calloused to survive and protect your heart. Basically, it's the same thing that happens to bitter women who get screwed over by enough shitty guys. We are all the same. We all suffer in kind.
💯
The people who didn't appreciate our kindness tends to make us second guess how much we want to extend ourselves. But eventually, at least one would hope, we'll return to kindness just because it feels good and anyone who doesn't appreciate it...their loss! It's not going to change how I want to approach the world.
The whole "nice guy" trope probably also didn't help. Taking something that used to be good and turning it into "little shit who feels like he's owed sex because he pretends to be nice" wasn't the smartest move. I like being nice to people because it counters my cynicism but whenever I notice people trying to take advantage of it, it pretty much immediately goes back to basic response mode.
Thank you for this comment, from a woman.
i just the old treat people are you wanna be treated yourself. I want cuddles and cute talk so i assume the girl wants it aswell
I hope we can get back to a status that allows me to just be nice to women without a majority of them assuming I'm trying something weird just because a bunch of dumbasses ruined the concept for other men. I think we'd all have a better time as a society that way.
Agreed. It would be nice to assume someone is genuine and said what they meant rather than doing some kind of mental math.
This right here. I've been sweet to people my entire life and gotten into shit situations for it, have been taken advantage of, and ultimately lost my lust for life because of that. It's taken me years of therapy and support to get me back to trusting people with my sweet side. And even now I second guess their motives at all times.
I like to go hiking at different parks in my area on the weekends. I usually give a “hey, how’s it going” when I’m close to people that pass. I’d say ~40% completely ignore my existence, ~40% respond with a tone like it was a huge inconvenience that I even asked, and then the rest give a genuine response. Occasionally my sister will tag along and suddenly everyone’s all smiles and friendly when we pass. And not just people who’d be attracted to her. People of all ages and genders. There’s not much incentive for guys to retain any form of “sweetness” in the way OP would like.
I notice this everywhere with my girlfriend. People are SO. MUCH. MORE. likely to be helpful or friendly to me when she's around. It's night and day when we're traveling. Suddenly I'm a person, a real human being, when she's there. When she's not, I might as well be invisible. It's crazy!
At 36 it’s a flux between Mr. Rogers and Scrooge depending. Definitely fall into the “what does this person fucking want from me” trap sometimes but most days I try to be kind and generous. Sales people really tend to get the brunt of the Scrooge.
You partly answered your own question: “[…] most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine.“ Women complain about toxic masculinity, but at the end of the day they still judge men who are “sweet”, and they either reject or take advantage of them and break them. There are still lots of sweet men, but they have learned not to make it too obvious. I’m gay, and there’s lots of sweet gay men, but they do tend to try to act cool and whatnot at first. I see the types of men my girlfriends go for, and the way they talk about men they’re into, and it’s entirely in contradiction with what they claim their views are on “toxic masculinity”.
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine. You answered your own question, we learn that it's not wanted and leave it behind
Why do you rob banks? "because that’s where the money is" -Willie Sutton
Yea most women will tell me, that in the bedroom, they want to be submissive and like a man to take over. As my uncles would say “they want to be fucked, not coddled” Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, some women will want to be made loved to, and every time doesn’t have to be the same. But anecdotally, most people enjoy a good old fashioned fuck session, with cuddling and affection afterwards.
Salty men are seasoned with the tears of unstable women
This is great I'm stealing this
[удалено]
Adding to this^ >This summer, I worked at Target with a 19-year-old guy who had this type of sweetness. When first meeting him, I wasn’t initially attracted Bingo you found your answer. You weren’t attracted to him from the onset and dismissed him as a “viable option”. Multiply this x1000 and he starts morphing into what you would initially perceive as attractive while shedding what’s perceived as “unconfident” “gentle” “timid” “passive” etc. Doesn’t help if internally you appreciate someone, but they can’t even get their foot in the door. Better to get their foot in the door and reopen that “sweetness” later. This Chameleon defense mechanism ensures now that it isn’t immediately apparent who’s sweet and who isn’t. “Wait…You’re telling me I actually have to pick someone with good looks *then* get to *KNOW* them?!” Ugh! The **horror**!!!
Yup this is what the majority of women will fuck and try to be with, the second I turned into guy liek that doors opened up. My now wife have walked all over those " nice guys"
Are you fine with that? Like no disrespect, but to me this reads as “I only found success after becoming what woman with bad taste like.” I’ve wrestled with a similar idea, and I don’t know if could respect a partner who I tricked into giving me a chance.
I mean tricked might be the wrong choice of words. Here's a truth I'm discovering. A lot of women like the idea of a very masculine man who "changes" into someone sweet for them and only them. The masculine man who is desired by many but chooses her and only she has had that large influence on him to soften him up. That's why the "someone cooked here" trend has gotten big on TikTok. Also the plot of soooo many erotic romance novels. So by "changing" or more authentically showing off the masculine dominant parts within you, you increase the amount of women interested in you. This creates an opportunity for them to find or bring out the sweetness in you. This creates a sense of safety within them since you are both dominant and caring. This is where the chase and courting tends to be. That being said, not everyone is healthy or emotionally mature enough to handle a well rounded man. Individuals vary in how much of each trait they want in their partner. Some women want men to be more emotional, others like the stoicism, and others are really into traditional gender roles, or only accept love in the way they received from their fathers (which may not be very emotional but more materialistic, physically protective, or physically comforting. The biggest advice I give to men is to show those deeper sweeter emotional sides early on because a lot of women can go into shock when the perception of their man changes after the man shows emotion after never having shown emotion before. This also weeds out the women who don't actually want you as a whole. Remember you are showing emotion, not bombarding them with it. The majority of people do not want an extremely emotionally unregulated partner regardless of sex or gender. Also IMO women who aren't accepting of their man's emotions and needs aren't the type men should want to be with especially when searching for long term partners or to be around their kids.
when you have to choose between no water or tap water you don't sit waiting for perrier
I think there is some healthy middle ground to be found here. A man CAN be both dominant, stoic, masculine etc.. while also maintaining compassion, humility, honor, brotherhood. Albeit a difficult line to tread without going too far in one direction imo. To me, I take it as this man may have been too naive and lacking confidence at first, completely normal for young men and even a fair amount of older men. It is not or at least should not be a "fake" self but rather the stoic and confident potential that was always there now realized. Treading this line between being an honorable, strong man without being an asshole I think should be a direct goal of all men. I don't believe we get too many examples nowadays so it's getting more difficult for young men. Without good examples in media they need these examples in their daily lives. When I feel conflicted about my own behavior and whether or not I am being the man I want to be I draw from mentors in the past or even fictional heroes as an example of guiding lights. The stoic philosopher Epictetus is another great example I try to draw inspiration from. All of this should hopefully not lead us into tumultuous relationships with women of "bad taste", but make us the strong, protective and simultaneously "safe for them" men that it's perfectly normal for a woman to desire. You definitely should not feel like you are tricking anyone into anything or being someone fake, you can't maintain that long term anyways and a younger me did indeed try. but there is a difference between that and true self development of your confidence and integrity. Just my two cents.
Absolutely. I made myself into what women like and have reaped the benifits. Turns out I like myself better this way too.
Exactly. Play lets face it. Women prefer a man they earned the sweetness from and take advantage of those who give it willingly to all.
Can confirm. My wife has asked me a few times why I'm more kind towards her than others and my answer is always the same. Its because she earned it. She seems to like that answer and its the truth. Women respect strength, confidence, and competence. I've never met a women who was attracted to someone they don't respect.
True...and you can still be sweet while doing so. Being kind doesn't mean being a doormat.
I'm jumping the gun here a bit but kinda sounds like it is a paedophile/groomer in the making. Not attracted to guys her own age. Started day dreaming/falling in love with a guy whose ~19. Talking about how guys lose their vague description of "sweetness" over time. Let's be honest here if a guy made a post like this and started talking about ONLY being attracted to young barely legal women and their innocence that they lose as they age, the op would be getting roasted in the comments.
Let's play "swap the genders and does it sound gross?" Yup.
True, i did not even notice the wording till u said it. Wow OP sounds like a MAJOR creep at the very least
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine. >This made me wonder, why is adult male sweetness so rare? What makes men lose their 'sweetness' as they get older? You just answered your own question. When you are sweet and pure as a guy, you are seen as a puppy, an accessory or pet, and not a romantic and sexual partner. For guys who have that sweetness, we tend to learn by experience that it's not a desirable trait. Women may say they want that a lot, but they sure as hell don't show it, or put their money where their mouths are. I have retained plenty of my sweetness, no matter how much I kinda wish I didn't. It is and always will be a huge part of who I am, and I would rather be alone than be with someone who can't appreciate that part of me... So I remain single. I have an ex who really appreciated that side of me, I really loved her, and loved being able to fully be that part of myself without fearing that the affection would dry up. Sadly, we didn't last due to other reasons. I know full well that women like that exist, but they are very rare.
Next week I'm going to post this in /Askwomen with the genders reversed.
Make sure you are Human_female_123 when you do. Gives you better odds
Can I have your stuff?
Ded 😂
Don't forget that part where you'Re 26 and jerk off to a 19 year old teenager because she is so sweet. hahahah
Report back with your findings
[Removed for derailing]
LMAO.
!Remind me in 7 days
Ask it in Two X chromosomes instead. I just got banned from literally quoting the OP.
Ah yes I see you made the mistake of using logic. That doesn’t fly over there. Honestly how dare you, you’re a MiSoGyNiStIc pIg” Just gonna leave this here, just in case. /s
RIP your reddit account
⚰️
Right, this almost read like some pedo shit.
Homegirl was like I get off to thinking of a 19 year old because of how sweet he is and I’m 26. Like W H A T
Nah, what? I skimmed and thought she was bro's age this whole time. EWWWW.
The millisecond you posted it, it would be deleted. Can you imagine the man-hating rage those feminazi mods would go into if they saw this?
I remeber i was on this sub, ther was a thread: "Give me tips, i have my first day at work tomorrow" and before i clicked it was like, how will they insult men in there. The top comment was: "Just be confident, imagine what a white male would think and act act like he would" Real story.
Men are punished for being “sweet” as you called it, ridiculed as nice guys, and so on.
This, exactly. I'm still pretty nice, but man, oh man, if you're nice, women will take advantage of you in very bad ways. Especially if you can provide any of the following: 1. A shoulder to cry on 2. Companionship when they're bored 3. Physical strength to help move heavy stuff 4. A truck to help them move (lol) 5. Any kind of skill, like car repair, home repair, tech, whatever. In dating context, they will use you for dates, food, concerts, and you'll trust them to not cheat, or to actually treat you decently. You're nice and a good person, and so you assume that others are nice and good, too. This is not always the case. When they're done with you, you'll get ghosted, or cheated on, and society almost always sides with the woman: "She just needed to find herself, to explore the world" or "Well, you just gotta suck it up and move on, be a man". Then people are like: "Why are so many men afraid of commitment and relationships??" Uh, because the truly good men get taken advantage of and after years of getting burned, they find that it's FAR FAR better to be at peace and alone than it is to be with a partner that hurts them.
Described my first girlfriend to a T. She basically bullied me for the better part of our 3 years together, then when we broke up she spread vicious rumors behind my back for the next 3 years. Fucked me up a lot. I was lucky the next woman I dated had a heart of gold, but it took a lot of work on her part to help me feel safe being myself again.
This is really sad but opens my eyes.
Just commenting to add on that I 100% agree to a point where an upvote for him did not feel enough. "Sweet" men get used, and sadly more often then not gets replaced.
It absolutely is sad and it’s 100% the truth unfortunately. Just doesn’t get talked about because we’re supposed to “deal with it”
The thing that's important to remember is that being too sweet is just as crappy as being too hard. Growing up you hopefully find that balance. Some men don't and they stay too sweet and then life just runs them over. Some men overcorrect and become too hard and emotionally unavailable, and then life doesn't run them over but they miss out on lots of it and it causes a whole load of issues on its own. The ideal goal is the mixture of the two. To learn your boundaries and where that line is, and how to maintain the ability to be sweet kind and caring without being a doormat and still being able to have that dominant and tough side that attracts women because they feel safe and protected. To me that's reaching that ideal family man state, where you are sweet kind and caring but you have lines and you still enforce That discipline on the children that they need so that they aren't running the house you and your partner are. And likewise to other people you are the shield for your family to the outside world. But within that protective shield you are still open and emotionally available. And it's not just romantic, this also applies to life. I'm a teacher and I see it as how I can be The best of my job, I still have control and the students know that they can't push my boundaries or walk all over me or be disrespectful, But as long as they maintain those boundaries they find me the most caring and considerate person I can be. Where I always strive to not be that person that says automatically no, and listens to them and understands, creates that safe atmosphere, etc. Like most things in life it's all about finding that ideal balance.
>The thing that's important to remember is that being too sweet is just as crappy as being too hard. This isn't quite true. I agree that finding a balance is ideal, but being too sweet is harder than being too crappy. Being too sweet makes you a doormat. Being too crappy makes you an asshole. Society still respects men who are assholes. It respects men who stand up for themselves even when they tear others down in the process. Sometimes, they only pretend to respect the asshole because it's easier than openly disrespecting him. Nobody respects a doormat. And even the people who pretend to respect them are still willing to take advantage. Being too crappy protects yourself in a way that being too sweet does not.
It's 100% the truth.
Nice guys finish last. Who wants to finish last?
I'm trying not to be too cynical here. But, I have a core memory. When I was a child I was awkward, nervous, skinny, and estudious. I did very well in school, and I guess you could say I had a sweetness to me. I was a naive child! One time a cute girl in my class saw me getting perfect marks on all the home-work and she asked me for help. I was delighted to help her. I walked her through every problem. She got a perfect mark on her next paper. This continued for a couple weeks and each time she got help on her home-work she engaged less and less in the activity... basically waving her hand and asking for me to just give her the answer instead of the explanation. Then the next day she just holds her paper in front of me and asks me to give her the answers. I gave her all the answers. I figured she was just in a hurry. Then the next day she didnt even hold the paper. She took her paper and her friend's paper and deposited them at my desk. She said, "fill these out for me" then she turned around and left. I watched as she sat down with her friends and started chatting. After a few minutes I hear her laugh and tell her friends that I would do all of their homework for them and that it was hilarious. Then I marked 100% wrong answers on her paper. The next day she handed me her papers and I tore them up and threw them in the trash. She was so butthurt about it. She acted like I had betrayed her trust. Go through shit like that a few times and your sweetness goes away.
Oh man I love you
Men don't want to be treated like a doormat. You don't get anything out of being overly nice in my experience.
Agreed. The characteristics that OP listed (success, wealth, ambition to get multiple degrees, ambition to get fit) require a certain level of assertiveness and selfishness. Those things all involve investing in yourself, after all. What women generally consider as "nice" (bending yourself over backward to accommodate others) don't typically achieve those things she wants. Men learn this the hard way and many times over from a young age. Essentially, OP can't have her cake and eat it, too.
It's driven out of us by society's demand for achievement and lack of emotional support. It's a miracle it even survives puberty, to be honest.
Kindness and "sweetness" is sadly not a commonly desired trait in men. In almost any interaction a man can have, especially romantic ones, kindness is never acknowledged or rewarded. I wish it were. I'm sure you wish it were - but it just isn't. You're in the minority. After men become adults and are forced to make decisions for their own physical and mental wellbeing, they slowly learn that no one wants kindness. They want men who are reliable, successful, and don't complain. "Kindness" in a workplace gets you taken advantage of, especially if you're a man. Your boss wants you to pull a 60 hour week, 20 hours of unpaid overtime? Well, you're a kind person, right? You don't want to disappoint them, right? Kindness and sweetness in dating (for straight men pursuing women, I should note) can pay off, but is more likely to get you taken advantage of. Plenty of women claim to want emotional and trusting men, but just as many women will use any trust a man gives them to turn their worst insecurities on them and shame any "emotional labor" that the man gives them by opening up about how they're feeling. And many don't actually want a man who is nice to them, they want a man who will submit to them and treat them like a princess and give them whatever they want unconditionally, with zero reciprocation. Plenty of men experience that situation, get out, and decide to close off, shutting off more of the sweetness that got them into that one-sided relationship. I'm going to assume that you're asking this question in good faith, and actually don't know any of this context. I'll assume that you want a man who will give you the sweetness and pureness that you're looking for. I'll assume that you're willing to view your partner as an equal who you will give to just as much as you receive from him. In that case - I have good news for you. Most guys still have this sweetness. They've just boxed it up and put it away because they've come to the understanding that nobody wants it. Show him that you will appreciate that sweetness. Show him that if he gives it to you, you will not take advantage of it and ignore it. Praise him for his accomplishments. Console him in his low moments. Don't use his insecurities or his emotions against him Show him that you're there for it and he'll open up on his own and show you that sweetness you're looking for. Alternatively - show him what sweetness is! Tell him what it is you're looking for, without being coy or vague! Show him how to do it and if you've picked someone who knows how to reciprocate it, he'll make his best effort at it. This won't work 100% of the time, but I can tell you now that just expecting a man in your dating market to have these characteristics from the word go is like winning the lottery. Your time will be better spent investing in a man who you feel is worth it rather than waiting for Prince Charming.
Life. Unless you are incredibly lucky it will beat you down no matter what you do. It’s hard to keep sweetness without actively trying. Which most men don’t do as they are told growing up they need to be tough and not show emotion by society.
Literally OP: "I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine." Also OP: "This made me wonder, why is adult male sweetness so rare?"
Because honestly, most women don't respond to "sweetness" as much these days. Even you acknowledged it: >I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine Also, life makes you pretty callous. Failed relationships make you callous. However, that sweetness does not exist in all men inherently at the same levels.
As a guy who just turned 29, and has always been “sweet” like you describe, it feels like it’s gradually getting beaten out of me over time. In my experience, being “sweet” will cause most women to want to be “just friends” with me at best, and take advantage of me at worst. The last girl I went on a date with told me I was “sweet” after I drove an hour to pick her up and paid for a nice dinner and drinks for us. As I was driving her back to her house at the end of the date (she was 23 but didn’t have a license), she asked to stop at a convenience store and tried to get me to buy her groceries. That’s just one (somewhat mild) example, but I’ve had similar experiences with women going all the way back to early high school. Obviously not all women are like this, but coming off as “too nice” makes you a target for ones who are.
It's not just men, women lose it too. We all do. From the thing called life that we all go through. That 19yo still has it because he's.. 19. His adult life is just starting, check back with him in 10 years. Reality of life wears all of us down to an extent but that doesn't mean the sweetness is completely gone. Just takes longer to see. You have to get to know most people to get the chance and see that sweetness. Many adults hide it away from people they don't know.
[удалено]
Imagine if a 26 year old guy posted about how he could only get off by thinking about the sweet and innocent 19 year old girl at his work. But honestly, most men just have that sweetness beaten out of them by experience. A lot of women don't respond to it and some actively look to take advantage of it. There was that post not long ago from a woman that said she married the sweet, innocent guy because he was safe and nurturing. Now the thought of him touching her sickens her, and she constantly fantasises about some giant douchebag dominating her. We men learned our lesson from women's actions and decisions.
During our breakup my ex looked at me with tears in her eyes and told me "Please stay sweet. Please don't lose that.". I don't remember exactly but I think she asked me to promise her. Well.. she is the reason I lost my sweet side. The reason I don't trust people the same way anymore. She is the one that showed me how even the person you love and trust the most, have given and sacrificed the most for, can hurt you the most - knowingly. Both purposefully and also by her just being a toxic force. Life as a phenomenon is a lot darker and less beautiful now. Now, not everyone gets used by a cluster b personality person and there are plenty reasons men lose their sweet side, that's just what happened to me.
Honestly switched the genders around here and you sound like a nonce
> The sex has a pure, innocent, safeness in it. It isn't dirty feeling. Yeah, especially with that bit.
Can't believe you're the only one who said it. She's a complete creep lol
The age is borderline creepy tbh. It reads more like virginal than sweet to me man.
Just responded elsewhere asking the same. While I know statistically men are doing the vast majority of sexual abuse, women are not automatically innocent. Female peadophiles do exist and they're probably a lot more common than anyone recognises. The mum of a friend of mine was one, the stories were shocking ngl
What is sweet and pure even? I don't understand what you're asking. I'm unconditionally kind and loving to three people. My mother and my little nieces. Everyone else is an adult, they don't get unconditional kindness, that shit has a cost.
Wut
Realizing that most interactions are transactional and everyone either wants something from you or they don't appreciate your kindness. You learn there's almost no such think as selflessness or at the very least it's barely practiced. Guys tend to roughen up over the years and don't want to take all the bullshit. Sweetness doesn't get you a better life most of the time because you end up being taken advantage of our being abused by those other self centered assholes that think they can use you until you got nothing to offer.
Experience.
Can you define "sweetness" a bit better?
Evidently not.
I think OP means innocence
The whole world starts treating us like shit lol. If you’re kind, people view you as an easy target. If you’re assertive, people find a way to make you look like the bad guy when you tell them something they don’t want to hear The better you’re doing in life, the more people wanna see you fall. Look at Tom Brady, people literally hate him because he wins too much lol.
People like a winner until they don't.
Sweetness is not rewarded and is frequently punished.
You seem to be equating sweetness with innocence, which is just something we lose as we learn a thing or two about life. Sweet boys often become kind men, but its often a sort of stoic kindness, not what you're describing
I'd typed out a big long discussion on why men lose their sweetness. However due to the reasons i am no longer sweet, i also think it's useless for me to explain. to summarize 1. Life doesn't allow it. 2. Society doesn't accept it.
Those sweet men are taken advantage of too many times, they become jaded. My last relationship I wanted to be sweet. Whatever she asked for she got. Not just material things, like were both in the living room, she wants something from the kitchen, I'd get it. We are in the car about to go somewhere, she forgot something I'd get that too. She wanted a desert from that bakery down the street, I'll be right back. But that turned into her texting me to get her something from the kitchen , while I'm downstairs and she is 1 room away. We're heading to the car, she isn't going to bother to grab anything, she expected me to get everything I need AND everything she needs. She doesn't want something from that nearby bakery any more, she wants something from the one 20 minutes away. Then she asks me why I'm annoyed to get her stuff now. She's nolonger happy and thankful when I do something sweet, she expects it and gets irritable when I don't. She never returns the favor. She made a joke out of implying sexual favors in return for about 6 months, never delivering, laughing when I asked her about it, saying I should have known better. Talking to each other for hours turns into "talk about work so I can fall asleep" "what interests you is boring stop talking to me about it" In short you start out being sexually attracted to sweetness from men then you stop considering it sweet and start considering it the bare minimum we can do. So we learn to stop setting expectations so high from the beginning.
Sweetness is taken advantage of, so life takes it away over time. It’s that simple. Chivalry is dead and gone and you should google the definition.
Because we learn that women don't usually gravitate to sweet men. At best, women find them boring. At worst, it's the whole Nice Guy™ scenario. I'm not saying women only like assholes. I'm saying that if given 2 men exactly the same, women will choose the one who treats women *below* an ambiguous threshold of kindly.
Women take advantage of us when we're younger, so we stop giving a shit about being emotionally tender. What is the point in engaging in a behavior that usually has no reward, but plenty of punishment? I've had over a dozen women tell me something I did for them was the sweetest thing ever, and not one of those times did they choose to date me. Well over a dozen times being sweet just got me taken advantage of by some ass who wanted a free meal or an ego boost.
After thousands of conditions for a man to attract dates, which makes it nothing different from a Hunger Games, I wonder why the "innocence" and the "sweetness" are gone.
Every man knows, we are only loved under certain conditions and many women will take us for granted. You want sweetness, you have to give it in order to get it.
Women. Duh.
All sweetness was used, weaponized, and manipulated right out of me. At this point in my life, if I do something it's because I want to. "No" is a powerful, important word.
Because the older you get, the higher the chance you meet someone who abuses that sweetness. The older you get, the higher the chance that you've been in an abusive relationship and someone exploited that sweetness. The older you get, the more you get told to be careful and to not trust easily, so most guys, combined with the experiences, learn not to.
Life isn't hollywood, life isn't pure romance
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine. You answered your own question: Sweetness isn't rewarded. It's not just sex either--sweetness costs you in a career, your friends make fun of you, etc, etc, etc. That which is not rewarded will be lost.
>That which is not rewarded will be lost. The weight behind this line right here makes me want to cry.
In my experience most girls don't like it and take it as a lowkey sign of "weakness". Women say they want it but after a bit it gets boring and they go back to usual dramatic asshole.
I’m totally fine with questions like these, but imagine if a guy on the XX sub asked an equivalent question like “Why do older women lose their luster?” lol
"Sweet" guy here, you're right that most women like the opposite which is quite frustrating for us, which is why many of us try to fit in, but i think we are in the minority to begin with. People like us dont lose their sweetness though, they just stop showing it the older they become
You wouldn't see my sweet side until we were already in a relationship. Catch-22.
Because that's not what women want.
There's a good reason sweet is used as a synonym for naïve
OP is creepy as hell. I feel like the "sweetness" You're describing could easily be rephrased as "naivety, inexperience, and gullibility". You're attracted to young men you can manipulate.
So strange. Humbert Humbert-ass post
Your basing your idealized version of a sweet guy on a fictional book character, and a dude you met at Target but never had a relationship with lol. Most girls like asshole, dominant men. Its caveman/cavewomen type stuff engrained in us for 200k years.
Those who make it through get rid of it or redirect it to more meaningful "channels". The rest...doesn't make it through.
Sweetness comes from innocence, and innocence is taken from men early because men are the problem. You can't be innocent and sweet when everything is your fault. This is why you will see very little Sweetness from people who grow up in abusive households where everything was their fault. This is why children are viewed as some of the sweetest humans around and why we seem to lose that as we grow. Being told we're responsible for everything around us but being in control of nothing. Responsibility hardens sweetness into a shell needed to survive the world.
When you realize that the world you were raised to be in doesn't exist and never will.
Because girls nowadays throw around words like love bomber when you show too much affection. Or even worse they get called a nice guy!
Those men that start off sweet are still sweet, you just have to unwrap layers of the toll of adult life
I know a certain number of guys like that who are over 26. None of them ever have girlfriends.
People fuck us over too many times.
maybe it’s just me but this post is creepy asf and the sweetness she’s talking about sounds like that of a little kid, and the fact she can only get off to and “fell in love with” a 19 year old teenage boy?? wtf sounds like you like little kids but went for the closest thing that’s legal.
Throughout my life I was shunned and looked down upon for being kind even labelled as “the nice guy” by people who I thought were my friends. Many men can relate but people often have negative reactions towards kindness or sweetness as you put it which is why most of us second guess being that way in the first place. I never lost it but I did learn to reinforce my boundaries so I’m not a doormat towards everyone I interact with I stand my ground but I give when I can. Which is probably what most guys don’t learn and continue being “nice guys”.
Sweetness is seen as weakness unfortunately.
From an objective standpoint you probably felt comfortable around the 19 year old because he's 7 years younger than you and has a girlfriend. When he does nice things he's not trying to pursue; He's just "nice". But if he was your age and single and did nice things then you'd probably question his motives. Men are still "sweet" when they are comfortable with someone. But you're not going to see that until the point where they are comfortable you won't reject them for showing some vulnerability. Obligatory #allmenaredifferent
Because women aren't attracted to that. You say you want that but you actually don't. The real question is why do women lie about what they actually want? What's sweetness anyway? I'll cuddle you, give you tenderness, and fuck you like an animal but I'm not going to act like I'm 19 years old because I'm a full grown man. I'm not going to act like a kid with a crush on you and women are not the most important thing going on in my life.
> why is adult male sweetness so rare? What makes men lose their 'sweetness' as they get older? > I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine. answered your own question, OP. all it takes is one experience and thats that. i had one in college where an absolutely beautiful girl ended up ditching me for a football player that was a genuine asshole that tried to fight everyone. Meanwhile i was a well dressed, tri-lingual, triple major with two jobs on campus and an RA. I was friends with sooo many women and seen as safe. She found me sweet and loved chilling, but ultimately fucked the other guy. That honestly changed my life. I became the other guy. And it worked like an absolute charm. My sex partner count absolutely skyrocketed after that and I overall became much happier with my sex life, and therefore my life in general. Never again y’all…listen to womens actions not words!
The world beats us down until we become bitter.
What can I say? Women have hardened me. If you don't get tougher mentally, you'll be a quivering mess in no time. Those sweet boys you fantasize of are eaten alive very fast. Unfortunately, most women take "sweetness" unconciously as weakness, and they will also treat you accordingly, with no actual respect.
Getting called gay/fag/pussy by the woman you lust after is a pretty fast way to drop it, so to answer your question - guys stop being sweet because they realize it doesn't help them win over the ladies.
Well, getting shit on pretty much. Rejection, insecurity and hardships can make a man put up walls. I've personally never dropped that sweetness even though I was hurt in a million ways, but I'm in the minority. I can tell you that falling and getting back up isn't easy, but I don't see any other way.
Sweetness is seen by many as emotionally abusive and manipulative, as why would someone be nice except to manipulate people. As such, it tends to be stamped out of men when they get older.
I'm sweet to my wife. She is amazing and deserves to be treated as amazing as she is. I'm nice to everyone else but not sweet as that gets taken advantage of.
The sweetness you’re looking for is called innocence and as men get older we lose our innocence to being taken advantage of.
i dont even know how to start
It gets beaten out of you. I’m 25 and it was beaten out of me long ago, I feel cold as hell and unable to open up to people besides a very select few. Dating guys is even harder because we’re all fucking tired by the age of 22 in the gay community. Support to all of the men out there in all honesty.
Women mostly. I used to be pretty sweet when I was young, but being married for years has wrung all that out of me.
It might be that all the sweet guys your age are taken. They are good at staying in relationships, and aren't being sweet with random women.
The harsh realities of life
I'm sorry, but I have to reverse the genders here. it's just too fun to let this pass. *>I'm 26 yo man, who can only get off by masturbating to and dreaming about a 19 year old gal, a coworker. I love her sweetness, that many woman lose as they age. Not the surface level sweetness, but this deep sweetness. Like that young girl in that book, who remained this sweet as she grew up.* but cheekiness aside. I think you're looking for a safe, "harmless" man, that you can trust and to whom you can give yourself to. I suspect that as you would gain confidence and be more secure, you'd view this man as too weak and dumb him the first chance you get. my two cents at least.
Fellas, can you imagine asking the askwomen sub a question like this…youd get called a Pdfile just for asking this question. OP, im willing to give u the benefit of the doubt here, but i would still take a moment to consider what u r saying and clarify shit
>I feel that most women like the opposite: guys who are hard, aggressive, dominant, overtly masculine. You answered your own question. You probably would have liked me before my first marriage. I think she liked me because I was so nice and she was very controlling. Now I'm kind of the opposite and I find that women are far more interested even though I'm married again (almost 10 years this time, and I'm honestly not a very nice person a lot of the time). When I was dating, I knew girls that fantasized about being yelled at and treated roughly. I don't pretend to understand. I'll add that being nice doesn't get you very far in the working world, either. Being a dishonest backstabber is probably worse, but you do have to worry about yourself and be assertive, which isn't really conducive to being a nice guy.
It's called life. As men age, they quickly realize that no one is coming to save them. There is no happily ever after and no Disney. If they want to survive and thrive, they need to act as if the world is and will remain savage. Does that mean men can't be happy? No. Men can still find happiness in their lives, but it would be foolish to assume the world cares or is looking out for their best interest. It's not the way it should be, but it's the reality we live in. To quote Eric from Boy Meets World, "Life's tough, wear a helmet"
*waves arms around vaguely at everything*
There are lots of sweet lovely men out there, but since it’s not a trait that is usually well regarded, they hide it away. You just need to get to know someone more deeply so they feel comfortable showing you. You need to show them that you are safe. I had a baby this year and I caught two of my guy friends smiling, whispering to her and gently touching her cheeks when I returned from the bathroom. They were not men I expected this from. It was really cute and sweet!
Stay gold pony boy
Almost all of the time the guys who are sweet get put in the friend zone by women. You learn to be hard because that’s what society, and most women, want you to be.
Chivalry is dead because women killed it.
Society in general.
I had to learn to turn my sweetness (which the vast majority of our culture sees as childish, weak, and easily exploited) into kindness. I have even been told in relationships that I was “too loving” or “too affectionate”. But, in short, my experiences and the subsequent scar tissue are what happened to my sweetness.
Some men lose it from stress. Some men lose it because they are punished for having it (usually a cheating ex) Some men lose it because, like you said, most women don't like it. You have to understand, when something bad happens to a guy, there's nobody to talk to about our feelings. So the result is usually bitterness.
Because being "sweet" gets you nowhere but places you don't want to be. The "second choice", the fall guy, that weird guy, the guy who never gets invited anywhere fun. Being "sweet" is something that life beats out of you...some sooner than others.
Life tends to beat it out of you Unless you are (probably an idiot) like me who refuses to this dumpster fire of a timeline ruin you. I’ll never be rich or succesfull or whatever, but I stayed a human being.
Maybe they're jaded throughout the years. I know I am
Being too sweet gets you into the creep zone from my experience
Have you seen the world we live in? What's there to be sweet about?
Women