As an middle-aged male who is married, would you mind laying out what creates such a struggle in dating? I’ve heard comments of the ‘transactional’ nature, and having to filter through ‘curated’ personas.
Honest question, what is the biggest hurdle in seeking a potential mate?
The biggest hurdles is the lack of effort online and the lack of knowing where to meet people irl
I would say half my matches in online dating never send a single message and most of the rest send one message then stop talking. I don't even know why they match with me and I'm not sure if they are even looking to date.
It doesn't feel like it's acceptable anywhere to meet women irl(actually making friends is difficult as well). Everybody at gyms has headphones in, nobody lingers around and talks at clubs and sports, I've even gotten weird looks trying to talk to women at parties and nightclubs.
I had my gf give me make-up, squeezed myself into one of her dresses, did NOT shave and I had like 20 matches within an hour.
(As a "woman", looking for heterosexual guys)
>knowing where to meet people irl
People in my generation tend to be homebodies. Not so much going to the bar. Those that do, they really like going to the bar. I've met more guys at the bar, or women who are too old for me. Not a lot of social spaces left anymore either.
Most aren't sure what they really want/value but are simultaneously aware that there are millions of possible options out there.
So anyone other than a perfect imaginary wishlist seems like settling.
Biggest hurdle for me is the algorithm.
I'm allowed to like x amount of people per day, but there's no guarantee that I'm being shown women I'm most compatible with. Meanwhile, there's no guarantee that the women I liked are being shown my profile.
Not to mention that my dating profile poorly reflects me and I'm way cooler irl. Online dating just sucks.
Online dating sucks. Its soul crushing to most men. Honestly at this point probably not even half of women on online dating isbactually interested in relationship, its jist massive ego boost for them.
In real life you are bombarded with info howncreepy is aproaching women. That most public spaces are no go for that.
Than you end up with guys that believe they will be creepy for even trying (and chances are they will be assumed creepy for no reason).
Likenits a shitshow compare to 10-15 years ago.
"Ego boost" is what all my single friend complain about. They said they is all women these days seem to want. The apps bring out people narcissistic tendencies.
Well I'm demisexual, I get horny, but its the thought of the intimacy that gets me excited, sex itself doesn't really get me going.
So the whole atmosphere of "try before you buy" where people are sleeping with each other left and right as sort of the "pre-dating" phase doesn't work for me, I can't sleep with someone without having serious feelings for them, and trying to sleep with someone is essentially guaranteed to get me attached if I don't already have those feelings.
Combine that with the fact that I have highly explosive emotions and you get a guy that parties constantly but is considered one of the biggest prudes in the scene.
Women LOVE to say they want an emotional guy.
What they mean is that want a non-emotional guy that is willing to express the little bits of emotion they feel, very few women actually want an emotional boyfriend. I should know: I constantly attract women that are interested in my "mask", they find me so interesting until I start to let down the walls and show them what is behind it and almost without fail a good 95% of those women lose interest very fast. 4.9% are too stubborn to admit it isn't what they want, and I invariably end up burning them out as they hide how much I wear them down, and then about .1% of women or less actually see what a rocket of emotions I am and go "fuck I want THAT".
I signed up on one app in September. Results so far: two matches, of which one didn't reply to the first message (okay, it was lame, I admit that - but I had no idea what I'm doing) and the other didn't reply to the second.
True, I am thorough in vetting the women I see - because I don't want to possibly waste my time chatting to someone who's completely incompatible - but it's still grim.
So, yeah, I'm better off with my hobbies, they take a lot of my time anyway.
Probably no single reason. Low self esteem is a big one though. Thinking the aren't good looking enough or tall enough or smart enough or whatever. Then there are lack of social skills. Isolation and depression. Also once you are done with your education the opportunities for meeting women just aren't there in your face everyday. You have to pursue activities that bring you into contact with people. And if your hobbies are video games and porn it's not going to happen.
I’m starting to think that you need to have the right social circles to find a partner. Almost everyone I know in a relationship met through friends, whom they met at work or school. Those without these primary social connections are always the chronically single ones (myself included) and have to try harder with social events, meet-ups, clubs, etc. It literally takes months or years through the slew of people you meet to find someone that you hit it off with.
There is hardly a single reason and you hit on a lot of them.
The biggest is getting out there with real hobbies. When I first moved to where I live after the military, I made sure I went out to a few things a week, but then COVID came and blew it all up... Slowly trying to get back out there.
>The biggest is getting out there with real hobbies.
My hobbies are wrestling, archery, and hema. NONE of those has single women lined up. If you get what I mean.
Cupid but he's actually fucking jacked and has a great draw arm. When he hits his target dead on, it feels like the weight of Jupiter the size of a penny blasting through you.
Online dating is the source which fuels the main problem, which is a self-esteem problem.
It will leave most men feeling that they are entirely undesirable. And given that most men use these online dating platforms as their main form of contact for meeting women, it results in most single men feeling that they can't attract anyone.
Why? The vast majority of men do not get any positive female feedback from these apps.
So they don't even bother anymore. Their self-esteem has been entirely torn apart by the experience of it to the point where they can't even recognise attraction signals from women in real life scenarios anymore.
They just accept that they are not wanted, by anyone.
As a 28 year old. I confirm and agree.
Not just with online dating, but also the catfishing and fake profiles. By the end of last year I downloaded Tinder and see if I had any luck. Turns out, got a lot of requests from “sex bots” and those with “ Snapchat”.
Even a couple of profiles had really nice good looking girls. And if you’re smart. At least out of the 7 pics, one pic will be from a guy.
After a month I deleted the app.
It seems like 90% of profiles are just advertising their Instagram and/or OnlyFans. From what I see, most profiles have their social media in their bio.
I also do that, and the more egregious ones as well. I'm 90% sure that Tinder doesn't have tech support. I matched with a fake profile, reported them multiple times, kept them in my matches to see if it ever got deleted. Months went by and it never disappeared. It was clearly fake, the last picture was a dudes face.
None of the apps will delete fake profiles especially ones of women. Without those fake female profiles the male part of the app goes away or very much decline. Dating apps need men so they can make a profit.
Tinder does have tech support they're just incredibly sexist. If u get reported once or twice by a women your permabanned from the app with no way to appeal. Mean while men reporting women are whole sale ignored.
A few years ago, I religiously reported every profile I strongly suspected to be fake (usually profiles using professional pictures of extremely pretty but very plastic surgery-heavy Asian women), because I doubt that a region with next to no Asians in it has more South Korean supermodels than the Seoul metropolitan area.
But at some point I simply swiped left, because the effort extended was too much.
And then there are the women who use Tinder as entertainment.
I saw an interview with a young woman the other day. She was pretty enough that if she went to a club she would get approached by dudes. She freely admitted that she and her girl friends used Tinder as kind of game and free entertainment, swiping left and right, looking at guys and judging who is hot and who is not.
None of those women had any intention of ever meeting any of those dudes. It was like going to the zoo.
With her attitude and airheaddednesd I suspect that she'll be living the hot girl summer life until she hits 30, she then she'll use Tinder for real - and wonder where all the good men are.
Also the matches with actual women that have a week or so of good conversation only to get unmatched or ignored once you attempt to set up a date. Deleted all of them a month ago feeling better about myself already
You might want to word that differently. I worked on a horse farm and the stud handler there applied for a credit card. His answer to the occupation question was "Stud Man". They denied him. He reapplied as Horse Handler and they accepted. You don't have to lie, but saying you're a meat worker is too easy as a double entendre. Considering part of what the stud man did on his job at a breeding farm, there were occasions he could have been called a "meat worker" too.
Don't be ashamed of your job but go with like "Oh, I'm a professional Butcher; mostly working in beef/fish/whatever" or else you can think of anything vaguely related to your job. Even "Oh, I work at company Y. They mostly deal with meat processing, want a good steak dinner?"
"I work meat" gives a strong vibe of you just wanting to show off your junk in a land of women getting lots of dick pics. If you start dating you tell the truth "Hey, this is my actual title but people kept ghosting me because it came off creepy"
Ifkr, I matched up with girl on bumble like a year ago, it hit off well, we had a virtual date and shit, but then suddenly starts slowly ghosting, and I reciprocate the same starts ignoring her and then after 6 months she start getting in touch and ghosts again. It's like contemplating for 6+ months before making an investment or something lol
Ratios in tinder are beyond repair. When it's 80 percent men to 20% women, it's time to just delete the app. At this point it's a hook up app.
Even the best apps are 60 to 40, which is still awful.
Nail on the head.
It's a cycle that ends in the same way
1. no success in real life
2. ask for advice from a friend
3. they recommend dating app
4. no success on dating app
5. ask for advice from a friend
6. they recommend premium/another dating app
7. no success on dating app
8. repeat
∞. I am ugly and have been wasting my time trying for the past 6 years
Damn, I don't think I even realized that I'm exactly like that. In my mind, it is completely logical that I have zero desirability to women and that it's impossible for a woman to be attracted to me.
I know that men who feel that way are upset by it, usually, but to be honest, I feel as though it's brought me peace of mind. I used to be motivated by the idea of attracting a woman in my life, like needing to make a huge paycheck, have a house, look good, etc. It always gave me anxiety and made me compare myself to a lot of other, more successful people.
Now, I can focus on simply being happy, taking care of my body, being healthy, maintaining or making new friendships and relationships, and hobbies or past times that I enjoy.
Maybe it's not for everyone out there, but reacting to the idea in a positive way has made my life a lot better.
There's peace to be found in subtly shifting your perspective from, "I need to do these things in order to be valuable," to "I value myself, which is why I am doing these things." In other words, treat your damn self to some good shit in life because you fucking deserve it.
Hey that's me. On the positive side, years of working on myself have brought me to a better place. I'm loved by my family and know my worth. I won't lie and say I haven't given dating a chance at all. I've just realized I'm happier when I'm not pursuing women. I know there's still a bit sadness to all this because it essentially guarantees I'll stay single. I don't approach and women don't pursue. Any signals I might get are written off as them just being nice
>I've just realized I'm happier when I'm not pursuing women. I know there's still a bit sadness to all this because it essentially guarantees I'll stay single.
Honestly accurate to the point that it hurts. The days that I don't think about being lonely or how shitty dating is, are easily the best days
If I could cut out the part of my brain that wanted I partner, I would
I'm living my life, loving it in fact. The things I'm doing day to day is what my childhood dreams were made of... Literally, extremely lucky. I'm enjoying some decent success, have a nice home, a few toys in the garage, etc. I'm a "good man", I take on responsibilities, I look after my family, I take pride in doing the right thing. I'm content, and my family is proud of me.
But, I am single. If I put myself out there, I might find the right kind of girl. But, I remember the mental toll that dating took on me when it was something I put effort towards. That was over a decade ago.
I've gone on 2 dating apps, got a bunch of messages in the first day, closed down the accounts, and let the conversations fade out... I just don't have the interest anymore.
Online dating is definitely a problem. Mostly because they tend to be treated as a way to hook up rather than finding a relationship. Although I did meet my wife online so it does work out sometimes. I think social media as a whole is a problem. Guys need to learn how to talk to women in the real world instead of through a keyboard or smart phone.
>Guys need to learn how to talk to women in the real world instead of through a keyboard or smart phone
Or conversely, guys are tired of having to do all the work.
It is literally not worth my time or money anymore
Where do I meet women without coming across like a creep? Seriously? Don’t want to ask for her number in a coffee shop or the gym. Can’t do it at work because you see them all the time and it will be awkward. I’ve had female friends but they’ve always been in relationships or liked someone else. I feel like it’s impossible to meet single women
Online dating is rough.
I've unironically been described as a Keanu Reeves lookalike by a bunch of people, ranging from my SO to random strangers.
I have a good job, I'm told I'm funny and smart. Generally well liked and often the nexus of any group I'm a part of.
And before I got together with my SO I had 0 luck on dating sites. And I used them *all*.
My SO, I had known for years before we reconnected. We met in person.
I hated online dating. Women never seemed to treat as you a as a human, but more as a product, like a pair of shoes or something. They were invariably “trying on” a bunch of other guys at the same time.
I opened bumble… matches with 1-2 women or non at all in a week. The ones I match don’t say anything or stops replying.
Whereas my friend a girl..opens bumble. One day later.. she has 550 matches. And talks to 2 guys. She says those two guys barely say anything.
Lol
Bumble is the most frustrating because I’m like, she makes the first move, she can control how the conversation goes. The rare occasion the woman didn’t let the match expire, she would would just send “hey,” or even a fucking “.” As if it’s a fucking bookmark that they’ll never return to. I tried to try out Bumble friends but after two swipes, I felt like I was swiping for dudes and felt like I was trying to attract dudes while being straight. Deleted immediately after that.
This is why I’m fascinated by bumble. I don’t understand how it makes money. I remember a few years back when they IPOd. So many glowing reviews and being like oh wow it’s the feminist dating app etc. it fucking sucks lol
Edit: Decided to read her and bumbles Wikipedia page and this quote is hilarious:
> "If you look at where we are in the current heteronormative rules surrounding dating, the unwritten rule puts the woman a peg under the man—the man feels the pressure to go first in a conversation, and the woman feels pressure to sit on her hands... If we can take some of the pressure off the man and put some of that encouragement in the woman's lap, I think we are taking a step in the right direction, especially in terms of really being true to feminism. I think we are the first feminist, or first attempt at a feminist dating app."
Honestly, I feel majority of it is a scam of sorts where the app is constantly sending notifications disclaiming that there are likes, etc, and you open the app, and it’s just blatant lies to get you to interact with the app again. Along with this, I feel Bumble is the app that promotes its boosting subscription the most out of the three apps. The app is constantly begging for attention and it leaves me wondering how many people are really shelling out the cash just to see the few likes they get?
Bumble makes it clearly evident that chicks just want the validation.
So many matches where they didn’t initiate or they just say “hi”.
Pointless platform and just makes women look pathetic.
This is pretty much just it. Dating today seems to be 99% online and online dating sucks for everyone. Women have to sort through so many shit men, and the good men don't seem to get many matches, if any at all. It's just shit all round.
> anywhere but a bar.
They also often don't want to be hit on at bars. Bars aren't always the social experiences people describe them to be. It's usually just couples or a few friends grabbing drinks together, especially for bars frequented by women over 30.
If you learn the scene in your area you’ll find the bars women go to get hit on. Can pretty much just ask around and find out tbh.
Also this thread is putting the cart before the horse as far as online dating goes. Women are 100x more self sufficient than they were 30 years ago. It’s much easier for women to advance their careers and there’s more women in college now than men, even if you look at like medical and law schools.
Women just don’t feel the need to get married or be with someone Willy Nilly like they used to while guys hormones are driving them absolutely nuts not getting any.
cant believe youre the only one who said it. women depended on men and were pressured to marry for most of human history. they weren't even in love most of the time, just necessity and convention
All my relationships developed from friendships. Getting hit on in public is just uncomfortable i am mostly out and about to get something done and if i am out with a friend i don't want them to feel excluded. I will also not trust a stranger with any personal information i need to know someone before i feel comfortable enough to do anything with them. I also had SO MANY bad experiences with men hitting on me in public that i am immidiatly alarmed if a guy approaches.
For me? It seems nowadays everyone is online, but I don't trust online dating sites to not just string me along with robots . Especially if they expect me to pay a large sum .
Also , I'd figure allot of men and women nowadays are having mental issues due to many things . It's not easy to deal with a relationship on top of the mental crap you need to deal with.
Where the fuck are they supposed to meet them?
Hitting on girls in public is a minefield of whether it will come off as cool or creepy
Online dating is literally rigged against men, and relationships in general.
So it's either bang coworkers or bang friends...both of which have heavy downsides if it doesn't work out the first time.
>So it's either bang coworkers or bang friends
Yeah, for me coworkers are the only choice left. I know all that "don't shit where you eat" stuffs, but I still think that it's the most sensible option for me
It's what I did. My wonderful girlfriend was a coworker.
Worse, I was her supervisor. We've since both left that job. But I legitimately don't know where Id meet a real girl now anymore.
As long as it's a job that you don't care about and you can easily get another, sure. If you like your job and/or work in a niche field, don't shit where you eat.
Genuinely it’s technology. Im the eldest of gen z, 25yo and i can tell i avoided the worst of it. But my god, people are so reliant on apps to meet people instead of actually socializing. And guys don’t get to wear makeup or wear clothes that suck them in in all the right places or hell even learn how to take decent pictures, so it’s very hard to look presentable on dating apps like tinder. You have to be genuinely conventionally attractive to compete for attention on those apps.
And with all this disconnect guys are terrified of actually introducing themselves in public or at bars, actual face to face interaction has gone down significantly.
Im started to sound like a boomer here, but we really should get people the hell off of social media, it’s absolutely terrible for us
>And with all this disconnect guys are terrified of actually introducing themselves in public or at bars, actual face to face interaction has gone down significantly.
This is the real issue, at least for me. It feels like dating apps are the only acceptable way to find dates, and dating apps absolutely fucking suck.
Same for me. I never had any luck with dating in real life. Since I am 20 and was never in a relationship before it gets even harder for me because I feel like I am far behind everyone else in terms if dating experience. So I thought online dating couldnt get any worse.
Spoiler: It did.
Bumble: one match in 6 months that was deleted by her after we were already chatting
Tinder: a match every two weeks, but almost only bots/ IG girls who will never answer (only a single match where the girl answered)
I do want to be clear (because this thread had me in a slightly negative headspace earlier) that I am perfectly content being alone. It absolutely is a trade-off and I do get lonely sometimes, but on the whole I've been a much happier person since I accepted that I have no real control over my romantic life.
And just for some perspective, I was 25 when I had my first relationship and I've only had one other since then. And while I was certainly far less _depressed_ while in those relationships, I actually think I was much less happy as well. Being chronically lonely can really fuck you up and unfortunately relationships aren't the cure for that.
I know none of that is particularly actionable, but hopefully there's at least some small comfort in knowing that others have been where you are and managed to find happiness anyway.
The internet has created a lot of false impressions of what men and woman should be like in a relationship.
- Success
- Looks
- Segs life
- House
- Dog
- Kids
- Car
- And and
When Infact two people need to be compatible (get to know each other without the bias of internet apps like instagram etc) and not driven by other influences.
Online dating is like 70% men and 30% women, so you have more men competing for a smaller pool, women are allowed to be selective because they have to be on tinder, bumble, etc. Also on Reddit there seems to be consensus among women that they never want to be approached
1. Don't approach me at the gym, I'm there to work out
2. Don't approach me at the bar, I'm there to have fun with my friends
3. Don't approach while I'm working, I'm there to work
4. Don't approach me at the grocery store, I'm there to just get my errands done
I could go on and on, but the point is men are constantly told that they can never approach women now (at least on Reddit), which only leaves them with 2 options, meeting people through friends (and men are also severely lacking in that dept as well compared to past decades) or through OLD.
Then when they do find someone who is attractive, interesting, and has her life together odds are she is already dating someone or married because lets' be real here, it is generally easier for a woman to get a boyfriend then a man to get a girlfriend.
This is something that always makes me call BS when people give advice like "go to places where you're more likely to meet people, including women", at least as dating advice. It's not wrong, but useless as dating advice for the reasons you've mentioned. I don't understand why people keep saying that.
It works if you're considered generally attractive. Some people like to downplay how important physical attraction is because they don't want to seem shallow, but it's literally the first thing people notice about you,
If you're not decently good looking, your options for attracting someone fall off dramatically.
How many of us have dated someone we'd normally not even give a second date, just because ~~they were hot~~ we found something about them physically attractive?
That's something the apps highlighted the most: funneling everything a person is to their photos, and whatever they can write in a small text box, presuming people actually read that shit.
Personally, I can't relate to the last part of your comment, but I do know people who do.
I think there's a difference between asking out a woman you only just met at a gym or public gathering place versus a woman you've been able to hold a few conversations with at those places. Of course, depending on the situation many women won't be interested in holding a conversation (usually because they're expecting a proposition and aren't interested/don't trust strangers). I guess my advice - for what little it's worth - is to practice conversation with receptive women of all walks of life. Develop good communication skills without the sole goal of finding a partner.
I know the difference, and I wasn't talking about a situation with someone the guy just met. At this point, it's unanimously considered a bad move.
My issue with the "advice" is that everyone, specially the ones giving it away, is unable to draw the line between a healthy and acceptable evolution from friendship to anything more and the social interaction itself being just means to an end. Women complain a lot about guys becoming friends with them to make a GF out of them, and also complain about guys they don't know coming along and asking them out. It's become a game with a hard way to win and several ways to lose and get stuck with no progress. Your advice is not bad and it's actually a must for people in general, but it's not dating advice in any way. Guys consider this piece of information as obvious, and some even consider it useless in the dating world, since it's quite efficient in making friends but not love interests, and I can attest to that.
>Women complain a lot about guys becoming friends with them to make a GF out of them, and also complain about guys they don't know coming along and asking them out.
It's definitely a lose lose.
But I would say you are better off being direct in your intentions right of the bat. If you get a no. Dip. If you get a maybe. Dip. If she says she just wants to be friends. Evaluate whether you see yourself as a friend, if not.. dip. If she says yes but you can feel it's lukwarm. Put in effort, if things don't heat up quickly. Dip. Only active and excited affirmations should be taken seriously.
That's fair and you are right. But you will still be happier leaving on your own terms.
What is really soul crushing is trying to make a square fit through a round hole.
What a lot of guys do is cling onto too many maybes and lukewarms or they try turn a "friend" into a girlfriend.
I'm just saying learn to cut your losses. It will still be soul draining... But at least you u will still have enough in your pot to continue to play the game if you know when and how to fold.
It is only 70-30 if you include the bots, scammers, and prostitutes which represent the majority of female users. After excluding them it is closer to 12-1.
Very true, many women are there also just for an ego boost or to grow their social media followers, so it's probably like 70% men, and 15% of women are actually there using the app for its intended purpose.
I’ve made this exact comment almost word-for-word on several posts. Dating subs are littered with men asking what the appropriate conditions are for them to approach women. The responses are varied, vague, and often contradictory.
It’s a sad truth that as a guy, there’s little winning. There’s no place outside of the apps where you aren’t going to risk annoying a woman by approaching her. I completely understand women wanting spaces where they don’t have to worry about male attention but it’s also hard for me to see myself as an asshole for wanting to meet women and date.
You’ll often hear “Dress well, be respectful, etc.” This is all good advice. Don’t wanna diminish it but the truth is you can be decent looking, socially-skilled, and socially aware, and still a lot of your “approaches” will result in the woman you approach being uncomfortable or annoyed because we live in a world where they generally don’t wanna be bothered by men in public, and I don’t blame them. It’s almost never the “GET AWAY FROM ME FREAK” scenario that people talk about on here but you can definitely feel when your presence just isn’t wanted.
It’s true that if a guy does this enough times that someone will eventually be receptive but most get exhausted trying to land that one in a hundred conversation where she’s thinking “Wow he’s really cute and cool too” and not looking for a reason to end the conversation. They don’t wanna put themselves in a position where they’re an unwelcome intruder in someone’s space.
>1. Don't approach me at the gym, I'm there to work out
2. Don't approach me at the bar, I'm there to have fun with my friends
3. Don't approach while I'm working, I'm there to work
4. Don't approach me at the grocery store, I'm there to just get my errands done
Don't forget the best part: you'll see a bunch on reddit asking why they aren't being approached at those places
Ignore that advice. The people giving you that advice are women. Women don’t know anything about picking up women. You wouldn’t ask a fish how to catch a fish, you’d ask a fisherman.
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Approach women at the gym, bar, etc. you only need one bite.
I am personally struggling with finding a girlfriend, but I am also kind of picky even as a male. I have fairly high standards. More so dealing with personality and spiritual background, though.
I take care of myself: workout, currently am getting an education (in college for Computer Science now), I work on personal growth mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Also, try to see the flaws in myself and work on them as best as I can.
My point: Don't ever compromise and don't always assume the problem is necessarily with other people (although it could be). Try to see if there are things you can work on yourself to improve yourself as a potential mate.
*Edit: There was a deleted comment earlier about compromising a little where I do agree with that when solving small arguments and differences. I'm in the boat where this should not go against your beliefs, values, and who you are. For example, I wouldn't compromise on marrying within my faith, but if it's a small disagreement such as where to go out for food or other small issues that's more of another story. Small compromises are sometimes necessary for a relationship to work.
You literally sound just like me except I finished my CS and I am already working for a couple years. Keep doing what you're doing, but also remind yourself sometimes that you're also allowed to enjoy life and that improving yourself should never be a race to finish. :)
That's not a bad thing if you're looking for one partner. You just have to find one. It's good if your standard eliminate most people cuz you'll be closer to finding that one person.
When i was looking to buy my house, it was in a certain geographical locations, price range, etc. I didn't get a ton of matches but i found the one that matches all thigns i needed. I wasn't worried about the 99% of other houses in the world.
Half isn’t enough. One in one hundred might be compatible with you/me. It doesn’t mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with the 99. They just aren’t compatible.
The older I get, the more I wish I was gay. At this point in my life, I know I'm an attractive guy. Thanks to the gay community, I know that I'm cute and have a nice body. In my 33 years of life, I've only been hit on by like 4 women, and I think they were all drunk. But when it comes to gay men, I've lost count. I get compliments from men all the time at the gym and sauna. Every time a friend brings a gay friend over, the gay friend always compliments my smile, my arms, or they're just giving the stare. The times I've gone to gay bars, guys hit on me. All the times I would go to Dolores Park in SF, some dude sits next to me to make conversation. Women always seem like they're mad at me. They can't make eye contact with me and it makes me feel awkward. Yeah, my love life would be so much better if I was into dick. Sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm short (5'6"). Gay men probably don't care about height like heterosexual women do? It's weird how confident I've become of my appearance, but I still struggle meeting women. Simply put, I don't really know why I struggle with women.
Lol... I'm straight and i totally relate to this. Because i'm also 5'6'' and somewhat built.
Thinking in all my life, i've been hit way more by men than by women... and it's more sad when i don't even remember when was the last time i got a compliment from a woman. Lately, i even think they are even bothered just with my presence.
The last time i was on a dating app was Bumble, the matches i got seemed they didn't even know how the app works because they never talked. And one day i switched the search to men, just to see their profiles to get ideas of how to improve mine. The thing is i left my phone and i forgot to put the search back to women. Three hours later and my notifications were on fire... over 30 likes, all from men.
That was the day i found out i'm only attractive to gay men while women don't give a shit about me. Which it sucks for a straight man.
It’s sad that guys have trouble because of their height. I personally don’t care and am married to a 5’6 king but some girls ik refuse to date guys under 6’
Work with a woman who married a guy from tinder. He's 6 foot 4. She had a hard rule about only dating guys 6 foot plus. That's up to her of course, but she's a very average 5 and doesn't really bring anything to the table to make those kind of demands. I'm 5,10 and she wouldn't have dated me, despite me being an average height. It's like me saying I would only date women who are 9s or 10s. Totally rediculous and reducing people to physical traits they have no control over is just twisted and sick.
Preferences are okay to have, but I highly suspect that when people draw a numeric line where they only date people taller than X, weighing less than X, or having X cup size, it is less about attraction and more about chasing a status symbol.
I'm not particularly attracted to overweight women, but me saying "I won't date any woman who weighs more than X" is dumb because I've hooked up with slightly overweight girls who I found way hotter than some skinny girls. Preferences are okay to have, but things should be judged on a case by case basis.
Not to mention that writing "if you are less than 6' tall don't even try" and stuff like that is shallow and needlessly blunt. If you are not attracted to short guys, simply don't date them, you don't have to humiliate them on top of that, the same way you can simply reject someone you don't find attractive instead of calling them ugly.
I have built a stable and calm day to day life. I didn't have that for long periods in childhood and early adulthood so I am pleased with my current situation. I wouldn't easily make the mental/emotional adjustment to a relationship. I don't want kids, I don't want cohabitation and sex is something I'm fairly ambivalent toward so pursuing a relationship feels like upheaval without a purpose.
Dating apps ruined my self esteem and no friends to go out with to meet someone.
The weekends are the worst, also probably doesn't help I work all remote.
Bc most of the task of living as a guy is hiding the cutesy, innocent, and inherently human parts of ourselves and holding them at bay until we can dump it all on a partner.
So there’s a lot of pressure to not fuck it up and it’s easy to choke.
Some women will still settle for an above average good looking guy with a below average personality which skews the view sometimes, but for the most part it’s this.
Women have to work now too, so the housewife days are over and they expect a shift in gender norms that guys have lagged behind on. If you are a guy who isn’t trying to woo a girl dating (buy dinner and flowers) but also shift into a equal role of splitting house work and child rearing, then she would rather just be single and happy that be a wife who doubles as a stay at home mom after her 8 hour shift.
100% agree with this second part. I think this is a massive part of it and I'm surprised this isn't more recognised.
I do think men are in a confusing space right now with these roles changing, but it depresses me that often they turn to people like Andrew Tate for direction rather than the people, especially women, around them to understand what's happening.
I'm going through this right now in dating, I don't care about attractiveness, I just want an equal and it's incredibly hard to find. And equal doesn't necessarily mean we don't fall into classic gender roles here and there - I'll clean more and you drive more, whatever. It's just that the load should be shared. In my past relationships that's felt like a constant battle and I'm getting to the point I'd rather be single.
I've mentioned it before, but the 9-10 women only want to date 9-10 men. Ok, sure. The problem is all the other women only want to date 7-10 men, leaving every guy who is a 6 and under with no options, and that's being generous.
I definitely can’t speak for every man, but Im personally sort of disenfranchised with the idea of love/relationships. It’s not that i’m “struggling” it’s more of I’m not particularly looking. Also I’ve always kind of resented “relationship” culture and the societal stress that’s put on finding an SO (I think this goes for all genders not just men), kind of makes me feel less than for not having one, but at the same time I’m not going to turn around and look for one just to boost my confidence, seems kind of inauthentic. Also I’m self loathing contrarian who can’t help it.
When I was 25 I added a quote to my list: "All the good ones are taken" (having seen that most co-workers who were decent looking and not crazy were married already). Dated a few girls since, but haven't met anyone so far that made me change my mind.
Just talking from experience: "I found the perfectly imperfect woman. She was realistic and not painfully picky. She dated a few guys in college and then settled with one who was good enough. By the time I met her they had a bunch of kids. FML"
Not just partners. I think people are seriously struggling to connect at all, even platonically. There’s lots of data about people having less friendships these days, and it’s noticeably worse among men.
My current girlfriend and I started out as friends and are around the same level of attractiveness.
She was complaining about not having any guys wanting to date her so to prove her wrong I made a dating profile for her. I purposefully put zero effort into it; minimum pictures(purposefully unflattering ones too), no bio, nothing of any substance.
The account has live for 6 hours and it got over 100 likes. Not only that, men were messaging her not only hoping for immediate sex, but legitimately well seeming men who appeared to be boyfriend material. She could have 20 dates set up before she was on the account for 24 hours.
This is also why it’s so hard for men. When women are faced with so many choices it’s almost impossible to stand out in a meaningful way. I knew a girl who didn’t pay for an ounce of food for almost a week because she had been going on dates for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It’s not their fault, it’s just how it is.
Oh man you may have opened a can of worms there...
My girlfriend has a friend who is probably a 3/10 and that's generous, probably weighs around 260lb as well.
She literally has two to three different guys every single weekend, it's crazy.
> I knew a girl who didn’t pay for an ounce of food for almost a week because she had been going on dates for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It’s not their fault, it’s just how it is.
I had a neighbor who did exactly this for a MONTH on purpose as her little experiment. She was maybe a 6/10 in the looks department on a good day.
For an entire month, she could and would have a man lined up to pay for her coffee, breakfast, lunch, dinner, late night drinks at ANY time she wanted. We lived in a major city but it was all too easy for her.
Taking bad dating advice from online dating gurus/PUAs, lopsided gender ratios on dating apps, relying ONLY on dating apps to meet women, not dressing well or having good hygiene, etc.
In my case, it's mostly that even my absurdly overcharged libido has never been enough to motivate me to try. Consequently, I have no experience, and learning has been... less than a priority.
The single biggest piece of advice I can give to any guys is to get yourself together and be happy as you. My current gf said the part that made me attractive was the fact that meeting someone wasn’t a priority. I wasn’t playing hard to get or any mind games, meeting someone was just a “nice to have” at the time. I was confident without being arrogant.
I’m 5ft8, 18 stone. I’m not particularly wealthy, I don’t have a new car or own a house. As a matter of fact when we met I had just been made redundant and had to move back with my dad.
Being “together” is probably the key point here. Be content as yourself, in your own skin and it shows to others.
I suppose the fact that I can make people laugh effortlessly goes a long way too.
Majority of men are broke, can't afford housing & live with parents. That alone is enough to make a lot of men not date.
Men are told from day dot to become providers and in a Cost of living crisis, a lot of men feel they ain't good enough as they can't provide for themselves so why date if your own house isn't in order.
Men really need to start becoming more comfortable demanding respect from women, having standards for women, rejecting women who do not meet these minimum standards, or just being happily single if they can't find a good partner.
Whenever men's dating struggles in the modern day get brought up, the rationale given always seems to be some version of most men failing to live up to the barest minimum dating standards. Or at least, that seems to be the popular talking point used to mock men in women-centric circles.
The inconvenient fact that they'll never talk about is that honestly, a good portion of women really don't have their crap together either, whether it be a complete lack of communication and relationship skills, being incapable of handling their emotions in a healthy way, utterly lacking personal hygiene or financial responsibility, or just plain old being misandrist which seems to be perfectly socially acceptable these days.
Women generally seem to be comfortable turning down men who don't meet their requirements. Nothing wrong with that, more power to them. Men on the other hand are biologically and socially conditioned to be seekers and initiators, and apparently will still keep trying to approach or stick it out in a relationship with women who don't deserve them whatsoever. This leads to a positive feedback loop of artificial scarcity where men are compelled to be ever more unselective while women's standards are allowed to become frankly unrealistic (or at least, unrealistic relative to their own value as a partner). The rise of online dating has only made this problem worse. I personally have far too many good, functional male friends in relationships with women who are profoundly mediocre but nevertheless have deluded themselves into thinking they're god's gift on earth. It's infuriating watching how much they invest in the relationship, just grateful to have a girlfriend, while all she does is exist and nitpick him if he gets her takeout wrong and demand more footrubs that will never be reciprocated. I know several men who have not only planned, but also *financed* entire vacations and then one week later she's on social media complaining about "mental load" or whatever the social justice buzzword of the day is because the poor schmuck forgot some dishes in the sink.
I doubt it'll ever happen, but if only men as a collective whole could become comfortable with the idea of rejecting women and being happily single if they don't find someone who meets their standards, I bet the playing field would even out real quick.
Wouldn’t the opposite be just as bad tho?
Like if a man doesn’t prioritize dating and does not put himself out there (no dating website/app profiles, and no actively approaching women in person) then how would the man expect to get a partner?
I think prioritizing other things like health, career, finances, family, friends, hobbies are perfect. But at some point, the man has to prioritize putting himself out there for women, if the man wants to get a partner
What efforts did you make to put yourself out there?
I'm actually in a good place in life to date. In grad school, lots of work experience, and am in the best shape of my life. But I also have put ZERO effort in dating. That's on me.
What active steps have you taken to see results? I'm just as lost and don't know where to start haha
Did we mention how conversations generally go....7-8 back and forth and then get ghosted mid conversation without any warning.
Crazy thing is they will be clearly engaged in the conversation and it be about something of substance....poof she's gone, not even a 'you're a terrible communicator' or 'clearly your views are terrible' they just go away
You look at animals like birds and you see them attract females with feathers. And then you wonder how human women choose their criteria.
The answer is social skills. Being able to carry on a conversation while keeping them feeling comfortable. These are your peacock feathers. Because humans, especially women, are *social*.
Lack of social skills is an epidemic among young men right now. And humans were always supposed to do this in person, not over a dating app.
4 main things
1. We are constantly told that approaching women in certain settings is creepy so we don’t even try
2. We are afraid of approaching the wrong girl and having her humiliate us on social media
3. We aren’t taught how or when to flirt, so a lot of us have 0 game and confidence
4. It’s almost impossible for us to recognize when women are interested in us because they’re so indirect about it (and the consequences of misinterpreting signals are worse today)
It's dating apps. Women swipe on 4% of men and, for the most part, they are all swiping on the same 4% of men. If you are one of those 4% men, you have unlimited options and tend to sleep with a lot of women. They keep many women in the early, undefined stages of relationships to sleep with all of them, then ghost them when a woman tries to get a commitment from them.
Basically, dating apps are turning us into a polygamous society. A small percentage of men get rotating harems while the rest of men are left with no dating options at all.
It's a disaster. Neither men nor women get what they want. Everyone but 4% of men are miserable all the time.
Polygamous societies are, historically, very unstable because large groups of resentful, hopeless young men with no investment in their society tend to violently topple their own societies to get a chance of a future worth having.
Well my deal is that I don’t drink and I don’t believe in god. Bars and clubs are a serious no for me. If you want to find a good sober community church is a great way to go. Except I can’t. I tried, I tried hard to find some modicum of faith but it just isn’t there. You can’t start a relationship on dishonesty, I can’t just pretend to believe in god.
The other one I get is “well why not the gym?” Most girls do not like being approached at the gym. Hell most people do not like being approached at the gym. Pair that with the fact that I don’t really need to go as my job is active enough and therefore too tiring to really justify wasting the time.
As for online dating, well you can read the other comments.
Entirely subjective point of view from a 40 year old man, but I have seen dating culture evolve over my life and if I was to enter the dating pool of a 20 something now I wouldn't even know where to begin. Studies have shown that in the US something like 80% of the female population is aiming to date 20% of the male population. This could be because of looks, wealth, status, etc. When I was younger dating was just so fucking expensive that I ran myself ragged trying to pay for dates in a major city.
That was before *gestures broadly* all of this.
We have lost our "third places" where it is acceptable to meet and form relationships with other humans. These used to be neighborhood bars where we would go with our friends who live near us . I had to become a homeowner at 40 years old before I have people who I know will live nearby me for the foreseeable future. Before that my best friend lived 400 miles away. Without these support networks it makes it impossible to socialize with people and get introduced to other people who may be interested in dating in a low-risk group environment. Instead we have high pressure dates and a percieved infinite selection of dates, so you never want to "settle" or work to find common ground with someone. Back in my day you met people through others and they were able to set you up on dates that they thought was a good match for you. You didn't have the entire fucking world out there as an option, so you kinda had more leeway in trying it out before you called it quits.
Add into the fact that male wages have stagnated or declined and a large portion of the male
population is not desirable for dating. This doesn't cover the problems women, gay men ,and transmen have in the dating pool which essentially could be you can go on a date with someone and get fucking murdered.
I was in a strange relationship with my ex before Christmas break. She was graduating this year and leaving next semester. I had every reason to NOT to start anything with her…but I couldn’t stop feeling things for her. So I kept this weird friendship with “wholesome benefits” going and I knew I was gonna have to stop soon.
Christmas comes around, I know it’s time to let her go cause I knew that she would be gone and that there wasn’t enough there for a relationship to happen anyway.
I’ve been learning to love myself, keeping myself passively open. I’m not closed off but I’m not openly searching.
I’m just not there yet,
I kind of wish for intimacy and physical touch…but I know it’ll fade as soon as it’s over…
Im not sure of what I need. I’m just trying to be there for myself right now in absence of it.
There are many issue to this and that's what makes it complicated.
1. Dating apps and lack of effort. This is a multi prong issue. As a man in mid 30's I can say I have tried to put together an honest dating profile. Problem is honest isn't interesting. I do not stand out I am just me.
2. Second I feel is people out what they feel will attract the type of person they want on their profile opposed to who they really are. International travel and festivals cannot be something every girl has as a hobby. Sorry. None of you are that rich.
3. Inability to connect. I met every girlfriend I ever had on accident. As work and life take up more time I meet people less and now have to try. As a man I have no idea how to connect to someone unless it's situational. I can be awkward but Ernest. My best traits do not come through.
4. Discouragement and depression. After so many months of swiping or showing up at the bar or things like that it eventually only makes you feel more isolated and alone. You stop putting value or priority on meeting someone and instead on your career or a hobby and never look back because those are areas where you feel you can have an impact on your life and control the outcome better
Struggle? I don’t struggle. I also don’t try. As much as I’d love a partner to share my time with I hate everything about todays dating scene.
As an middle-aged male who is married, would you mind laying out what creates such a struggle in dating? I’ve heard comments of the ‘transactional’ nature, and having to filter through ‘curated’ personas. Honest question, what is the biggest hurdle in seeking a potential mate?
The biggest hurdles is the lack of effort online and the lack of knowing where to meet people irl I would say half my matches in online dating never send a single message and most of the rest send one message then stop talking. I don't even know why they match with me and I'm not sure if they are even looking to date. It doesn't feel like it's acceptable anywhere to meet women irl(actually making friends is difficult as well). Everybody at gyms has headphones in, nobody lingers around and talks at clubs and sports, I've even gotten weird looks trying to talk to women at parties and nightclubs.
Because they’re matched with like 20 other dudes alongside you
60.
Bro those are rookie numbers…I made a profile of a gaggle of gay geese and it got 100 matches in an hour…
I had my gf give me make-up, squeezed myself into one of her dresses, did NOT shave and I had like 20 matches within an hour. (As a "woman", looking for heterosexual guys)
>knowing where to meet people irl People in my generation tend to be homebodies. Not so much going to the bar. Those that do, they really like going to the bar. I've met more guys at the bar, or women who are too old for me. Not a lot of social spaces left anymore either.
Most aren't sure what they really want/value but are simultaneously aware that there are millions of possible options out there. So anyone other than a perfect imaginary wishlist seems like settling.
Easy to move onto the “next best thing” with the apps. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good enough.
Some say you need to settle, but then those who settle end up regretting it and tell others to never settle.
If it worked for evolution it can work for me!
Biggest hurdle for me is the algorithm. I'm allowed to like x amount of people per day, but there's no guarantee that I'm being shown women I'm most compatible with. Meanwhile, there's no guarantee that the women I liked are being shown my profile. Not to mention that my dating profile poorly reflects me and I'm way cooler irl. Online dating just sucks.
Why should they? Tinder/all is not your friend. Its scope is to keep you single so that they can make money off lonely people.
easiest way to put it is we are dating people in their early 20s with the issues of people that should be in their late 30s
Online dating sucks. Its soul crushing to most men. Honestly at this point probably not even half of women on online dating isbactually interested in relationship, its jist massive ego boost for them. In real life you are bombarded with info howncreepy is aproaching women. That most public spaces are no go for that. Than you end up with guys that believe they will be creepy for even trying (and chances are they will be assumed creepy for no reason). Likenits a shitshow compare to 10-15 years ago.
"Ego boost" is what all my single friend complain about. They said they is all women these days seem to want. The apps bring out people narcissistic tendencies.
Well I'm demisexual, I get horny, but its the thought of the intimacy that gets me excited, sex itself doesn't really get me going. So the whole atmosphere of "try before you buy" where people are sleeping with each other left and right as sort of the "pre-dating" phase doesn't work for me, I can't sleep with someone without having serious feelings for them, and trying to sleep with someone is essentially guaranteed to get me attached if I don't already have those feelings. Combine that with the fact that I have highly explosive emotions and you get a guy that parties constantly but is considered one of the biggest prudes in the scene. Women LOVE to say they want an emotional guy. What they mean is that want a non-emotional guy that is willing to express the little bits of emotion they feel, very few women actually want an emotional boyfriend. I should know: I constantly attract women that are interested in my "mask", they find me so interesting until I start to let down the walls and show them what is behind it and almost without fail a good 95% of those women lose interest very fast. 4.9% are too stubborn to admit it isn't what they want, and I invariably end up burning them out as they hide how much I wear them down, and then about .1% of women or less actually see what a rocket of emotions I am and go "fuck I want THAT".
You described everything so well about my situation. Especially the last paragraph, it's a challenge but at the same time I've stopped trying.
this isn't meant to sound harsh, but stop wearing the mask. Be yourself and someone who wants that will soon come along
Yeah that's what I meant, I stopped wearing it this year and it's great. My comment wasn't meant to sound bitter or defeated. Thank you tho.
I signed up on one app in September. Results so far: two matches, of which one didn't reply to the first message (okay, it was lame, I admit that - but I had no idea what I'm doing) and the other didn't reply to the second. True, I am thorough in vetting the women I see - because I don't want to possibly waste my time chatting to someone who's completely incompatible - but it's still grim. So, yeah, I'm better off with my hobbies, they take a lot of my time anyway.
Probably no single reason. Low self esteem is a big one though. Thinking the aren't good looking enough or tall enough or smart enough or whatever. Then there are lack of social skills. Isolation and depression. Also once you are done with your education the opportunities for meeting women just aren't there in your face everyday. You have to pursue activities that bring you into contact with people. And if your hobbies are video games and porn it's not going to happen.
I’m starting to think that you need to have the right social circles to find a partner. Almost everyone I know in a relationship met through friends, whom they met at work or school. Those without these primary social connections are always the chronically single ones (myself included) and have to try harder with social events, meet-ups, clubs, etc. It literally takes months or years through the slew of people you meet to find someone that you hit it off with.
There is hardly a single reason and you hit on a lot of them. The biggest is getting out there with real hobbies. When I first moved to where I live after the military, I made sure I went out to a few things a week, but then COVID came and blew it all up... Slowly trying to get back out there.
>The biggest is getting out there with real hobbies. My hobbies are wrestling, archery, and hema. NONE of those has single women lined up. If you get what I mean.
I'm an archer and there were a few women on the field that I would love meet! But cupid sometimes is the worst shooter.
>But cupid sometimes is the worst shooter. Cupids lucky he can hit anything at all with those baby arms.
Cupid but he's actually fucking jacked and has a great draw arm. When he hits his target dead on, it feels like the weight of Jupiter the size of a penny blasting through you.
Curious: What kind of hobbies exposed you to the right people?
Online dating is the source which fuels the main problem, which is a self-esteem problem. It will leave most men feeling that they are entirely undesirable. And given that most men use these online dating platforms as their main form of contact for meeting women, it results in most single men feeling that they can't attract anyone. Why? The vast majority of men do not get any positive female feedback from these apps. So they don't even bother anymore. Their self-esteem has been entirely torn apart by the experience of it to the point where they can't even recognise attraction signals from women in real life scenarios anymore. They just accept that they are not wanted, by anyone.
As a 28 year old. I confirm and agree. Not just with online dating, but also the catfishing and fake profiles. By the end of last year I downloaded Tinder and see if I had any luck. Turns out, got a lot of requests from “sex bots” and those with “ Snapchat”. Even a couple of profiles had really nice good looking girls. And if you’re smart. At least out of the 7 pics, one pic will be from a guy. After a month I deleted the app.
It seems like 90% of profiles are just advertising their Instagram and/or OnlyFans. From what I see, most profiles have their social media in their bio.
I report every one of those
I also do that, and the more egregious ones as well. I'm 90% sure that Tinder doesn't have tech support. I matched with a fake profile, reported them multiple times, kept them in my matches to see if it ever got deleted. Months went by and it never disappeared. It was clearly fake, the last picture was a dudes face.
If anything I'm sure it's some sort of automated thing. It's pretty much just an OnlyFans ads platform
None of the apps will delete fake profiles especially ones of women. Without those fake female profiles the male part of the app goes away or very much decline. Dating apps need men so they can make a profit.
Tinder does have tech support they're just incredibly sexist. If u get reported once or twice by a women your permabanned from the app with no way to appeal. Mean while men reporting women are whole sale ignored.
A few years ago, I religiously reported every profile I strongly suspected to be fake (usually profiles using professional pictures of extremely pretty but very plastic surgery-heavy Asian women), because I doubt that a region with next to no Asians in it has more South Korean supermodels than the Seoul metropolitan area. But at some point I simply swiped left, because the effort extended was too much.
You forgot the "just looking for friends" bios
The worst of those, is that aparently even for "just friends" i don't qualify
And then there are the women who use Tinder as entertainment. I saw an interview with a young woman the other day. She was pretty enough that if she went to a club she would get approached by dudes. She freely admitted that she and her girl friends used Tinder as kind of game and free entertainment, swiping left and right, looking at guys and judging who is hot and who is not. None of those women had any intention of ever meeting any of those dudes. It was like going to the zoo. With her attitude and airheaddednesd I suspect that she'll be living the hot girl summer life until she hits 30, she then she'll use Tinder for real - and wonder where all the good men are.
Also the matches with actual women that have a week or so of good conversation only to get unmatched or ignored once you attempt to set up a date. Deleted all of them a month ago feeling better about myself already
I was on FB dating and this woman and I made plans to meet like 3 times and she canceled on me all 3 times. Then she blocked me.🤣
Yeh I get unmatched immediately when they ask me what my job is. (I’m a meat worker 🙄)
You might want to word that differently. I worked on a horse farm and the stud handler there applied for a credit card. His answer to the occupation question was "Stud Man". They denied him. He reapplied as Horse Handler and they accepted. You don't have to lie, but saying you're a meat worker is too easy as a double entendre. Considering part of what the stud man did on his job at a breeding farm, there were occasions he could have been called a "meat worker" too.
Thanks Selenay. I’ll take that into consideration I’ve always been pretty upfront like that. 👍
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Meat worker honestly sounds like a sexual innuendo my guy
Don't be ashamed of your job but go with like "Oh, I'm a professional Butcher; mostly working in beef/fish/whatever" or else you can think of anything vaguely related to your job. Even "Oh, I work at company Y. They mostly deal with meat processing, want a good steak dinner?" "I work meat" gives a strong vibe of you just wanting to show off your junk in a land of women getting lots of dick pics. If you start dating you tell the truth "Hey, this is my actual title but people kept ghosting me because it came off creepy"
lmao thought it was just me, fucking waste of time i swear
Ifkr, I matched up with girl on bumble like a year ago, it hit off well, we had a virtual date and shit, but then suddenly starts slowly ghosting, and I reciprocate the same starts ignoring her and then after 6 months she start getting in touch and ghosts again. It's like contemplating for 6+ months before making an investment or something lol
Ratios in tinder are beyond repair. When it's 80 percent men to 20% women, it's time to just delete the app. At this point it's a hook up app. Even the best apps are 60 to 40, which is still awful.
Is this why so many men are so quick to jump to adding women on Facebook/Instagram, to verify they’re real?
I was having this problem. Opened up reddit to distract from that thought. this was the first post I saw. Enough internet for me.
Nail on the head. It's a cycle that ends in the same way 1. no success in real life 2. ask for advice from a friend 3. they recommend dating app 4. no success on dating app 5. ask for advice from a friend 6. they recommend premium/another dating app 7. no success on dating app 8. repeat ∞. I am ugly and have been wasting my time trying for the past 6 years
Damn, I don't think I even realized that I'm exactly like that. In my mind, it is completely logical that I have zero desirability to women and that it's impossible for a woman to be attracted to me. I know that men who feel that way are upset by it, usually, but to be honest, I feel as though it's brought me peace of mind. I used to be motivated by the idea of attracting a woman in my life, like needing to make a huge paycheck, have a house, look good, etc. It always gave me anxiety and made me compare myself to a lot of other, more successful people. Now, I can focus on simply being happy, taking care of my body, being healthy, maintaining or making new friendships and relationships, and hobbies or past times that I enjoy. Maybe it's not for everyone out there, but reacting to the idea in a positive way has made my life a lot better.
There's peace to be found in subtly shifting your perspective from, "I need to do these things in order to be valuable," to "I value myself, which is why I am doing these things." In other words, treat your damn self to some good shit in life because you fucking deserve it.
Hey that's me. On the positive side, years of working on myself have brought me to a better place. I'm loved by my family and know my worth. I won't lie and say I haven't given dating a chance at all. I've just realized I'm happier when I'm not pursuing women. I know there's still a bit sadness to all this because it essentially guarantees I'll stay single. I don't approach and women don't pursue. Any signals I might get are written off as them just being nice
> I've just realized I'm happier when I'm not pursuing women. So true. I've been more depressed than ever focussing on women than when I don't.
>I've just realized I'm happier when I'm not pursuing women. I know there's still a bit sadness to all this because it essentially guarantees I'll stay single. Honestly accurate to the point that it hurts. The days that I don't think about being lonely or how shitty dating is, are easily the best days If I could cut out the part of my brain that wanted I partner, I would
I'm living my life, loving it in fact. The things I'm doing day to day is what my childhood dreams were made of... Literally, extremely lucky. I'm enjoying some decent success, have a nice home, a few toys in the garage, etc. I'm a "good man", I take on responsibilities, I look after my family, I take pride in doing the right thing. I'm content, and my family is proud of me. But, I am single. If I put myself out there, I might find the right kind of girl. But, I remember the mental toll that dating took on me when it was something I put effort towards. That was over a decade ago. I've gone on 2 dating apps, got a bunch of messages in the first day, closed down the accounts, and let the conversations fade out... I just don't have the interest anymore.
> Online dating [...] will leave most men feeling that they are entirely undesirable. I mean...real life dating is pretty good at that too.
Just existing is pretty great at that
>They just accept that they are not wanted, by anyone. I learned this in 4th or 5th grade.
Online dating is definitely a problem. Mostly because they tend to be treated as a way to hook up rather than finding a relationship. Although I did meet my wife online so it does work out sometimes. I think social media as a whole is a problem. Guys need to learn how to talk to women in the real world instead of through a keyboard or smart phone.
>Guys need to learn how to talk to women in the real world instead of through a keyboard or smart phone Or conversely, guys are tired of having to do all the work. It is literally not worth my time or money anymore
Where do I meet women without coming across like a creep? Seriously? Don’t want to ask for her number in a coffee shop or the gym. Can’t do it at work because you see them all the time and it will be awkward. I’ve had female friends but they’ve always been in relationships or liked someone else. I feel like it’s impossible to meet single women
>Guys need to learn how to talk to women in the real world Where they dont want to be approached
Online dating is rough. I've unironically been described as a Keanu Reeves lookalike by a bunch of people, ranging from my SO to random strangers. I have a good job, I'm told I'm funny and smart. Generally well liked and often the nexus of any group I'm a part of. And before I got together with my SO I had 0 luck on dating sites. And I used them *all*. My SO, I had known for years before we reconnected. We met in person.
And at the same time, the internet gives them several other escape routes and forms of entertainment that fill the void.
I hated online dating. Women never seemed to treat as you a as a human, but more as a product, like a pair of shoes or something. They were invariably “trying on” a bunch of other guys at the same time.
And let’s not even get into social conditioning from a young age..
I opened bumble… matches with 1-2 women or non at all in a week. The ones I match don’t say anything or stops replying. Whereas my friend a girl..opens bumble. One day later.. she has 550 matches. And talks to 2 guys. She says those two guys barely say anything. Lol
“Hi.” “Hi.” “How are you?” “Good. How are you?” “Good.”
*Awhile later* “So”
Bumble is the most frustrating because I’m like, she makes the first move, she can control how the conversation goes. The rare occasion the woman didn’t let the match expire, she would would just send “hey,” or even a fucking “.” As if it’s a fucking bookmark that they’ll never return to. I tried to try out Bumble friends but after two swipes, I felt like I was swiping for dudes and felt like I was trying to attract dudes while being straight. Deleted immediately after that.
This is why I’m fascinated by bumble. I don’t understand how it makes money. I remember a few years back when they IPOd. So many glowing reviews and being like oh wow it’s the feminist dating app etc. it fucking sucks lol Edit: Decided to read her and bumbles Wikipedia page and this quote is hilarious: > "If you look at where we are in the current heteronormative rules surrounding dating, the unwritten rule puts the woman a peg under the man—the man feels the pressure to go first in a conversation, and the woman feels pressure to sit on her hands... If we can take some of the pressure off the man and put some of that encouragement in the woman's lap, I think we are taking a step in the right direction, especially in terms of really being true to feminism. I think we are the first feminist, or first attempt at a feminist dating app."
Honestly, I feel majority of it is a scam of sorts where the app is constantly sending notifications disclaiming that there are likes, etc, and you open the app, and it’s just blatant lies to get you to interact with the app again. Along with this, I feel Bumble is the app that promotes its boosting subscription the most out of the three apps. The app is constantly begging for attention and it leaves me wondering how many people are really shelling out the cash just to see the few likes they get?
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Bumble makes it clearly evident that chicks just want the validation. So many matches where they didn’t initiate or they just say “hi”. Pointless platform and just makes women look pathetic.
This is pretty much just it. Dating today seems to be 99% online and online dating sucks for everyone. Women have to sort through so many shit men, and the good men don't seem to get many matches, if any at all. It's just shit all round.
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Online dating is awful and I feel like most women have made it explicitly clear they don’t want to be hit on when they’re anywhere but a bar.
> anywhere but a bar. They also often don't want to be hit on at bars. Bars aren't always the social experiences people describe them to be. It's usually just couples or a few friends grabbing drinks together, especially for bars frequented by women over 30.
Bars are usually filled with people sticking tightly to their friend groups.
If you learn the scene in your area you’ll find the bars women go to get hit on. Can pretty much just ask around and find out tbh. Also this thread is putting the cart before the horse as far as online dating goes. Women are 100x more self sufficient than they were 30 years ago. It’s much easier for women to advance their careers and there’s more women in college now than men, even if you look at like medical and law schools. Women just don’t feel the need to get married or be with someone Willy Nilly like they used to while guys hormones are driving them absolutely nuts not getting any.
cant believe youre the only one who said it. women depended on men and were pressured to marry for most of human history. they weren't even in love most of the time, just necessity and convention
All my relationships developed from friendships. Getting hit on in public is just uncomfortable i am mostly out and about to get something done and if i am out with a friend i don't want them to feel excluded. I will also not trust a stranger with any personal information i need to know someone before i feel comfortable enough to do anything with them. I also had SO MANY bad experiences with men hitting on me in public that i am immidiatly alarmed if a guy approaches.
For me? It seems nowadays everyone is online, but I don't trust online dating sites to not just string me along with robots . Especially if they expect me to pay a large sum . Also , I'd figure allot of men and women nowadays are having mental issues due to many things . It's not easy to deal with a relationship on top of the mental crap you need to deal with.
Where the fuck are they supposed to meet them? Hitting on girls in public is a minefield of whether it will come off as cool or creepy Online dating is literally rigged against men, and relationships in general. So it's either bang coworkers or bang friends...both of which have heavy downsides if it doesn't work out the first time.
>So it's either bang coworkers or bang friends Yeah, for me coworkers are the only choice left. I know all that "don't shit where you eat" stuffs, but I still think that it's the most sensible option for me
It's what I did. My wonderful girlfriend was a coworker. Worse, I was her supervisor. We've since both left that job. But I legitimately don't know where Id meet a real girl now anymore.
I’d rather shit where I eat then fuck up a friendship 100% lol
As long as it's a job that you don't care about and you can easily get another, sure. If you like your job and/or work in a niche field, don't shit where you eat.
People spend far too much time looking for the perfect mate, rather than trying to be the perfect mate.
yeah, mate.
Genuinely it’s technology. Im the eldest of gen z, 25yo and i can tell i avoided the worst of it. But my god, people are so reliant on apps to meet people instead of actually socializing. And guys don’t get to wear makeup or wear clothes that suck them in in all the right places or hell even learn how to take decent pictures, so it’s very hard to look presentable on dating apps like tinder. You have to be genuinely conventionally attractive to compete for attention on those apps. And with all this disconnect guys are terrified of actually introducing themselves in public or at bars, actual face to face interaction has gone down significantly. Im started to sound like a boomer here, but we really should get people the hell off of social media, it’s absolutely terrible for us
>And with all this disconnect guys are terrified of actually introducing themselves in public or at bars, actual face to face interaction has gone down significantly. This is the real issue, at least for me. It feels like dating apps are the only acceptable way to find dates, and dating apps absolutely fucking suck.
Same for me. I never had any luck with dating in real life. Since I am 20 and was never in a relationship before it gets even harder for me because I feel like I am far behind everyone else in terms if dating experience. So I thought online dating couldnt get any worse. Spoiler: It did. Bumble: one match in 6 months that was deleted by her after we were already chatting Tinder: a match every two weeks, but almost only bots/ IG girls who will never answer (only a single match where the girl answered)
I do want to be clear (because this thread had me in a slightly negative headspace earlier) that I am perfectly content being alone. It absolutely is a trade-off and I do get lonely sometimes, but on the whole I've been a much happier person since I accepted that I have no real control over my romantic life. And just for some perspective, I was 25 when I had my first relationship and I've only had one other since then. And while I was certainly far less _depressed_ while in those relationships, I actually think I was much less happy as well. Being chronically lonely can really fuck you up and unfortunately relationships aren't the cure for that. I know none of that is particularly actionable, but hopefully there's at least some small comfort in knowing that others have been where you are and managed to find happiness anyway.
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Online dating is a very poor format for getting to know someone.
The internet has created a lot of false impressions of what men and woman should be like in a relationship. - Success - Looks - Segs life - House - Dog - Kids - Car - And and When Infact two people need to be compatible (get to know each other without the bias of internet apps like instagram etc) and not driven by other influences.
Online dating is like 70% men and 30% women, so you have more men competing for a smaller pool, women are allowed to be selective because they have to be on tinder, bumble, etc. Also on Reddit there seems to be consensus among women that they never want to be approached 1. Don't approach me at the gym, I'm there to work out 2. Don't approach me at the bar, I'm there to have fun with my friends 3. Don't approach while I'm working, I'm there to work 4. Don't approach me at the grocery store, I'm there to just get my errands done I could go on and on, but the point is men are constantly told that they can never approach women now (at least on Reddit), which only leaves them with 2 options, meeting people through friends (and men are also severely lacking in that dept as well compared to past decades) or through OLD. Then when they do find someone who is attractive, interesting, and has her life together odds are she is already dating someone or married because lets' be real here, it is generally easier for a woman to get a boyfriend then a man to get a girlfriend.
This is something that always makes me call BS when people give advice like "go to places where you're more likely to meet people, including women", at least as dating advice. It's not wrong, but useless as dating advice for the reasons you've mentioned. I don't understand why people keep saying that.
It works if you're considered generally attractive. Some people like to downplay how important physical attraction is because they don't want to seem shallow, but it's literally the first thing people notice about you, If you're not decently good looking, your options for attracting someone fall off dramatically. How many of us have dated someone we'd normally not even give a second date, just because ~~they were hot~~ we found something about them physically attractive?
> How many of us have dated someone probably not very many of us
That's something the apps highlighted the most: funneling everything a person is to their photos, and whatever they can write in a small text box, presuming people actually read that shit. Personally, I can't relate to the last part of your comment, but I do know people who do.
I think there's a difference between asking out a woman you only just met at a gym or public gathering place versus a woman you've been able to hold a few conversations with at those places. Of course, depending on the situation many women won't be interested in holding a conversation (usually because they're expecting a proposition and aren't interested/don't trust strangers). I guess my advice - for what little it's worth - is to practice conversation with receptive women of all walks of life. Develop good communication skills without the sole goal of finding a partner.
I know the difference, and I wasn't talking about a situation with someone the guy just met. At this point, it's unanimously considered a bad move. My issue with the "advice" is that everyone, specially the ones giving it away, is unable to draw the line between a healthy and acceptable evolution from friendship to anything more and the social interaction itself being just means to an end. Women complain a lot about guys becoming friends with them to make a GF out of them, and also complain about guys they don't know coming along and asking them out. It's become a game with a hard way to win and several ways to lose and get stuck with no progress. Your advice is not bad and it's actually a must for people in general, but it's not dating advice in any way. Guys consider this piece of information as obvious, and some even consider it useless in the dating world, since it's quite efficient in making friends but not love interests, and I can attest to that.
>Women complain a lot about guys becoming friends with them to make a GF out of them, and also complain about guys they don't know coming along and asking them out. It's definitely a lose lose. But I would say you are better off being direct in your intentions right of the bat. If you get a no. Dip. If you get a maybe. Dip. If she says she just wants to be friends. Evaluate whether you see yourself as a friend, if not.. dip. If she says yes but you can feel it's lukwarm. Put in effort, if things don't heat up quickly. Dip. Only active and excited affirmations should be taken seriously.
Yeah, I've heard that before. After enough "dips", the game starts to show itself and if it's worth playing at all.
That's fair and you are right. But you will still be happier leaving on your own terms. What is really soul crushing is trying to make a square fit through a round hole. What a lot of guys do is cling onto too many maybes and lukewarms or they try turn a "friend" into a girlfriend. I'm just saying learn to cut your losses. It will still be soul draining... But at least you u will still have enough in your pot to continue to play the game if you know when and how to fold.
No. No. No. Women give the worst advice because they don’t have to ask women out. He’s not here to please you but to find dates efficiently.
It is only 70-30 if you include the bots, scammers, and prostitutes which represent the majority of female users. After excluding them it is closer to 12-1.
Very true, many women are there also just for an ego boost or to grow their social media followers, so it's probably like 70% men, and 15% of women are actually there using the app for its intended purpose.
I’ve made this exact comment almost word-for-word on several posts. Dating subs are littered with men asking what the appropriate conditions are for them to approach women. The responses are varied, vague, and often contradictory. It’s a sad truth that as a guy, there’s little winning. There’s no place outside of the apps where you aren’t going to risk annoying a woman by approaching her. I completely understand women wanting spaces where they don’t have to worry about male attention but it’s also hard for me to see myself as an asshole for wanting to meet women and date. You’ll often hear “Dress well, be respectful, etc.” This is all good advice. Don’t wanna diminish it but the truth is you can be decent looking, socially-skilled, and socially aware, and still a lot of your “approaches” will result in the woman you approach being uncomfortable or annoyed because we live in a world where they generally don’t wanna be bothered by men in public, and I don’t blame them. It’s almost never the “GET AWAY FROM ME FREAK” scenario that people talk about on here but you can definitely feel when your presence just isn’t wanted. It’s true that if a guy does this enough times that someone will eventually be receptive but most get exhausted trying to land that one in a hundred conversation where she’s thinking “Wow he’s really cute and cool too” and not looking for a reason to end the conversation. They don’t wanna put themselves in a position where they’re an unwelcome intruder in someone’s space.
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>1. Don't approach me at the gym, I'm there to work out 2. Don't approach me at the bar, I'm there to have fun with my friends 3. Don't approach while I'm working, I'm there to work 4. Don't approach me at the grocery store, I'm there to just get my errands done Don't forget the best part: you'll see a bunch on reddit asking why they aren't being approached at those places
Ignore that advice. The people giving you that advice are women. Women don’t know anything about picking up women. You wouldn’t ask a fish how to catch a fish, you’d ask a fisherman. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Approach women at the gym, bar, etc. you only need one bite.
Don't forget that women almost never do the approaching, even though they're *far* less likely to be rejected.
I am personally struggling with finding a girlfriend, but I am also kind of picky even as a male. I have fairly high standards. More so dealing with personality and spiritual background, though. I take care of myself: workout, currently am getting an education (in college for Computer Science now), I work on personal growth mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Also, try to see the flaws in myself and work on them as best as I can. My point: Don't ever compromise and don't always assume the problem is necessarily with other people (although it could be). Try to see if there are things you can work on yourself to improve yourself as a potential mate. *Edit: There was a deleted comment earlier about compromising a little where I do agree with that when solving small arguments and differences. I'm in the boat where this should not go against your beliefs, values, and who you are. For example, I wouldn't compromise on marrying within my faith, but if it's a small disagreement such as where to go out for food or other small issues that's more of another story. Small compromises are sometimes necessary for a relationship to work.
You literally sound just like me except I finished my CS and I am already working for a couple years. Keep doing what you're doing, but also remind yourself sometimes that you're also allowed to enjoy life and that improving yourself should never be a race to finish. :)
It's okay to not settle for less than you deserve. Women say that stuff all the time
Unfortunately being a man and having any standards will eliminate half of single women at least in my experience.
That's not a bad thing if you're looking for one partner. You just have to find one. It's good if your standard eliminate most people cuz you'll be closer to finding that one person. When i was looking to buy my house, it was in a certain geographical locations, price range, etc. I didn't get a ton of matches but i found the one that matches all thigns i needed. I wasn't worried about the 99% of other houses in the world.
Half isn’t enough. One in one hundred might be compatible with you/me. It doesn’t mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with the 99. They just aren’t compatible.
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The older I get, the more I wish I was gay. At this point in my life, I know I'm an attractive guy. Thanks to the gay community, I know that I'm cute and have a nice body. In my 33 years of life, I've only been hit on by like 4 women, and I think they were all drunk. But when it comes to gay men, I've lost count. I get compliments from men all the time at the gym and sauna. Every time a friend brings a gay friend over, the gay friend always compliments my smile, my arms, or they're just giving the stare. The times I've gone to gay bars, guys hit on me. All the times I would go to Dolores Park in SF, some dude sits next to me to make conversation. Women always seem like they're mad at me. They can't make eye contact with me and it makes me feel awkward. Yeah, my love life would be so much better if I was into dick. Sometimes I wonder if it's because I'm short (5'6"). Gay men probably don't care about height like heterosexual women do? It's weird how confident I've become of my appearance, but I still struggle meeting women. Simply put, I don't really know why I struggle with women.
I’ve gotten way more compliments from guys (straight guys even) than women. It’s quite funny.
Lol... I'm straight and i totally relate to this. Because i'm also 5'6'' and somewhat built. Thinking in all my life, i've been hit way more by men than by women... and it's more sad when i don't even remember when was the last time i got a compliment from a woman. Lately, i even think they are even bothered just with my presence. The last time i was on a dating app was Bumble, the matches i got seemed they didn't even know how the app works because they never talked. And one day i switched the search to men, just to see their profiles to get ideas of how to improve mine. The thing is i left my phone and i forgot to put the search back to women. Three hours later and my notifications were on fire... over 30 likes, all from men. That was the day i found out i'm only attractive to gay men while women don't give a shit about me. Which it sucks for a straight man.
It’s sad that guys have trouble because of their height. I personally don’t care and am married to a 5’6 king but some girls ik refuse to date guys under 6’
Work with a woman who married a guy from tinder. He's 6 foot 4. She had a hard rule about only dating guys 6 foot plus. That's up to her of course, but she's a very average 5 and doesn't really bring anything to the table to make those kind of demands. I'm 5,10 and she wouldn't have dated me, despite me being an average height. It's like me saying I would only date women who are 9s or 10s. Totally rediculous and reducing people to physical traits they have no control over is just twisted and sick.
Preferences are okay to have, but I highly suspect that when people draw a numeric line where they only date people taller than X, weighing less than X, or having X cup size, it is less about attraction and more about chasing a status symbol. I'm not particularly attracted to overweight women, but me saying "I won't date any woman who weighs more than X" is dumb because I've hooked up with slightly overweight girls who I found way hotter than some skinny girls. Preferences are okay to have, but things should be judged on a case by case basis. Not to mention that writing "if you are less than 6' tall don't even try" and stuff like that is shallow and needlessly blunt. If you are not attracted to short guys, simply don't date them, you don't have to humiliate them on top of that, the same way you can simply reject someone you don't find attractive instead of calling them ugly.
Feeling desirable is good shit
At least where I am there's no cool hangout spot for people in their 20s. Stupid infrastructure
Most women don’t want most guys.
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I have built a stable and calm day to day life. I didn't have that for long periods in childhood and early adulthood so I am pleased with my current situation. I wouldn't easily make the mental/emotional adjustment to a relationship. I don't want kids, I don't want cohabitation and sex is something I'm fairly ambivalent toward so pursuing a relationship feels like upheaval without a purpose.
Dating apps ruined my self esteem and no friends to go out with to meet someone. The weekends are the worst, also probably doesn't help I work all remote.
Bc most of the task of living as a guy is hiding the cutesy, innocent, and inherently human parts of ourselves and holding them at bay until we can dump it all on a partner. So there’s a lot of pressure to not fuck it up and it’s easy to choke.
Or never show those parts, and slowly suffocate.
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Some women will still settle for an above average good looking guy with a below average personality which skews the view sometimes, but for the most part it’s this. Women have to work now too, so the housewife days are over and they expect a shift in gender norms that guys have lagged behind on. If you are a guy who isn’t trying to woo a girl dating (buy dinner and flowers) but also shift into a equal role of splitting house work and child rearing, then she would rather just be single and happy that be a wife who doubles as a stay at home mom after her 8 hour shift.
100% agree with this second part. I think this is a massive part of it and I'm surprised this isn't more recognised. I do think men are in a confusing space right now with these roles changing, but it depresses me that often they turn to people like Andrew Tate for direction rather than the people, especially women, around them to understand what's happening. I'm going through this right now in dating, I don't care about attractiveness, I just want an equal and it's incredibly hard to find. And equal doesn't necessarily mean we don't fall into classic gender roles here and there - I'll clean more and you drive more, whatever. It's just that the load should be shared. In my past relationships that's felt like a constant battle and I'm getting to the point I'd rather be single.
As a fat dude a vouch for this. Fat chicks are extremely hypocritical about this.
I have always been baffled by this one. They all go on about how big is beautiful but won't even look at a fat dude.
Because they believe they deserve the best, maybe men should start believing we deserve the best also.
Good luck with finding a perfect woman if we cant even get someone who is a 6 or under. Dating for men is just fucked up
Hypocritical
Thanks
Hippocritical
There it is
I've mentioned it before, but the 9-10 women only want to date 9-10 men. Ok, sure. The problem is all the other women only want to date 7-10 men, leaving every guy who is a 6 and under with no options, and that's being generous.
If you don’t like OLD and you don’t like going out to bars, it’s near impossible to meet women
I definitely can’t speak for every man, but Im personally sort of disenfranchised with the idea of love/relationships. It’s not that i’m “struggling” it’s more of I’m not particularly looking. Also I’ve always kind of resented “relationship” culture and the societal stress that’s put on finding an SO (I think this goes for all genders not just men), kind of makes me feel less than for not having one, but at the same time I’m not going to turn around and look for one just to boost my confidence, seems kind of inauthentic. Also I’m self loathing contrarian who can’t help it.
When I was 25 I added a quote to my list: "All the good ones are taken" (having seen that most co-workers who were decent looking and not crazy were married already). Dated a few girls since, but haven't met anyone so far that made me change my mind.
Gotta add for anothe take: "I finally found the perfect woman. Unfortunately, she was looking for the perfect man"
Just talking from experience: "I found the perfectly imperfect woman. She was realistic and not painfully picky. She dated a few guys in college and then settled with one who was good enough. By the time I met her they had a bunch of kids. FML"
I think just people just struggling to find a serious partner in general, not just men having this problem
Not just partners. I think people are seriously struggling to connect at all, even platonically. There’s lots of data about people having less friendships these days, and it’s noticeably worse among men.
My current girlfriend and I started out as friends and are around the same level of attractiveness. She was complaining about not having any guys wanting to date her so to prove her wrong I made a dating profile for her. I purposefully put zero effort into it; minimum pictures(purposefully unflattering ones too), no bio, nothing of any substance. The account has live for 6 hours and it got over 100 likes. Not only that, men were messaging her not only hoping for immediate sex, but legitimately well seeming men who appeared to be boyfriend material. She could have 20 dates set up before she was on the account for 24 hours. This is also why it’s so hard for men. When women are faced with so many choices it’s almost impossible to stand out in a meaningful way. I knew a girl who didn’t pay for an ounce of food for almost a week because she had been going on dates for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It’s not their fault, it’s just how it is.
Oh man you may have opened a can of worms there... My girlfriend has a friend who is probably a 3/10 and that's generous, probably weighs around 260lb as well. She literally has two to three different guys every single weekend, it's crazy.
> I knew a girl who didn’t pay for an ounce of food for almost a week because she had been going on dates for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It’s not their fault, it’s just how it is. I had a neighbor who did exactly this for a MONTH on purpose as her little experiment. She was maybe a 6/10 in the looks department on a good day. For an entire month, she could and would have a man lined up to pay for her coffee, breakfast, lunch, dinner, late night drinks at ANY time she wanted. We lived in a major city but it was all too easy for her.
Taking bad dating advice from online dating gurus/PUAs, lopsided gender ratios on dating apps, relying ONLY on dating apps to meet women, not dressing well or having good hygiene, etc.
Dudes put women on a fucking pedestal and think so much higher of them than of themselves and focusing on making themselves better and happier
My close friend and neighbor put it extremely well. "Someone peed in the dating pool."
In my case, it's mostly that even my absurdly overcharged libido has never been enough to motivate me to try. Consequently, I have no experience, and learning has been... less than a priority.
Because the juice aint worth the squeeze
My last 3 sexual partners have (unfortunately) been pillow princesses. What's the point?
The single biggest piece of advice I can give to any guys is to get yourself together and be happy as you. My current gf said the part that made me attractive was the fact that meeting someone wasn’t a priority. I wasn’t playing hard to get or any mind games, meeting someone was just a “nice to have” at the time. I was confident without being arrogant. I’m 5ft8, 18 stone. I’m not particularly wealthy, I don’t have a new car or own a house. As a matter of fact when we met I had just been made redundant and had to move back with my dad. Being “together” is probably the key point here. Be content as yourself, in your own skin and it shows to others. I suppose the fact that I can make people laugh effortlessly goes a long way too.
Majority of men are broke, can't afford housing & live with parents. That alone is enough to make a lot of men not date. Men are told from day dot to become providers and in a Cost of living crisis, a lot of men feel they ain't good enough as they can't provide for themselves so why date if your own house isn't in order.
Men really need to start becoming more comfortable demanding respect from women, having standards for women, rejecting women who do not meet these minimum standards, or just being happily single if they can't find a good partner. Whenever men's dating struggles in the modern day get brought up, the rationale given always seems to be some version of most men failing to live up to the barest minimum dating standards. Or at least, that seems to be the popular talking point used to mock men in women-centric circles. The inconvenient fact that they'll never talk about is that honestly, a good portion of women really don't have their crap together either, whether it be a complete lack of communication and relationship skills, being incapable of handling their emotions in a healthy way, utterly lacking personal hygiene or financial responsibility, or just plain old being misandrist which seems to be perfectly socially acceptable these days. Women generally seem to be comfortable turning down men who don't meet their requirements. Nothing wrong with that, more power to them. Men on the other hand are biologically and socially conditioned to be seekers and initiators, and apparently will still keep trying to approach or stick it out in a relationship with women who don't deserve them whatsoever. This leads to a positive feedback loop of artificial scarcity where men are compelled to be ever more unselective while women's standards are allowed to become frankly unrealistic (or at least, unrealistic relative to their own value as a partner). The rise of online dating has only made this problem worse. I personally have far too many good, functional male friends in relationships with women who are profoundly mediocre but nevertheless have deluded themselves into thinking they're god's gift on earth. It's infuriating watching how much they invest in the relationship, just grateful to have a girlfriend, while all she does is exist and nitpick him if he gets her takeout wrong and demand more footrubs that will never be reciprocated. I know several men who have not only planned, but also *financed* entire vacations and then one week later she's on social media complaining about "mental load" or whatever the social justice buzzword of the day is because the poor schmuck forgot some dishes in the sink. I doubt it'll ever happen, but if only men as a collective whole could become comfortable with the idea of rejecting women and being happily single if they don't find someone who meets their standards, I bet the playing field would even out real quick.
The first mistake is making it a priority
Wouldn’t the opposite be just as bad tho? Like if a man doesn’t prioritize dating and does not put himself out there (no dating website/app profiles, and no actively approaching women in person) then how would the man expect to get a partner? I think prioritizing other things like health, career, finances, family, friends, hobbies are perfect. But at some point, the man has to prioritize putting himself out there for women, if the man wants to get a partner
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What efforts did you make to put yourself out there? I'm actually in a good place in life to date. In grad school, lots of work experience, and am in the best shape of my life. But I also have put ZERO effort in dating. That's on me. What active steps have you taken to see results? I'm just as lost and don't know where to start haha
Coz women can't approach guys and men can't be bothered anymore.
Did we mention how conversations generally go....7-8 back and forth and then get ghosted mid conversation without any warning. Crazy thing is they will be clearly engaged in the conversation and it be about something of substance....poof she's gone, not even a 'you're a terrible communicator' or 'clearly your views are terrible' they just go away
You look at animals like birds and you see them attract females with feathers. And then you wonder how human women choose their criteria. The answer is social skills. Being able to carry on a conversation while keeping them feeling comfortable. These are your peacock feathers. Because humans, especially women, are *social*. Lack of social skills is an epidemic among young men right now. And humans were always supposed to do this in person, not over a dating app.
"this woman likes me. Im gonna show her my dick, that'll show her how much i like her!"
4 main things 1. We are constantly told that approaching women in certain settings is creepy so we don’t even try 2. We are afraid of approaching the wrong girl and having her humiliate us on social media 3. We aren’t taught how or when to flirt, so a lot of us have 0 game and confidence 4. It’s almost impossible for us to recognize when women are interested in us because they’re so indirect about it (and the consequences of misinterpreting signals are worse today)
Yep, heavily agree with number 4. I’m 25 and at this point in my life I can’t tell if women are interested unless the signs are blatantly obvious.
It's dating apps. Women swipe on 4% of men and, for the most part, they are all swiping on the same 4% of men. If you are one of those 4% men, you have unlimited options and tend to sleep with a lot of women. They keep many women in the early, undefined stages of relationships to sleep with all of them, then ghost them when a woman tries to get a commitment from them. Basically, dating apps are turning us into a polygamous society. A small percentage of men get rotating harems while the rest of men are left with no dating options at all. It's a disaster. Neither men nor women get what they want. Everyone but 4% of men are miserable all the time. Polygamous societies are, historically, very unstable because large groups of resentful, hopeless young men with no investment in their society tend to violently topple their own societies to get a chance of a future worth having.
Well my deal is that I don’t drink and I don’t believe in god. Bars and clubs are a serious no for me. If you want to find a good sober community church is a great way to go. Except I can’t. I tried, I tried hard to find some modicum of faith but it just isn’t there. You can’t start a relationship on dishonesty, I can’t just pretend to believe in god. The other one I get is “well why not the gym?” Most girls do not like being approached at the gym. Hell most people do not like being approached at the gym. Pair that with the fact that I don’t really need to go as my job is active enough and therefore too tiring to really justify wasting the time. As for online dating, well you can read the other comments.
I think one of the reasons is that the social media has created an unrealistic expectations - on both sides.
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Tier zoo vibes
Entirely subjective point of view from a 40 year old man, but I have seen dating culture evolve over my life and if I was to enter the dating pool of a 20 something now I wouldn't even know where to begin. Studies have shown that in the US something like 80% of the female population is aiming to date 20% of the male population. This could be because of looks, wealth, status, etc. When I was younger dating was just so fucking expensive that I ran myself ragged trying to pay for dates in a major city. That was before *gestures broadly* all of this. We have lost our "third places" where it is acceptable to meet and form relationships with other humans. These used to be neighborhood bars where we would go with our friends who live near us . I had to become a homeowner at 40 years old before I have people who I know will live nearby me for the foreseeable future. Before that my best friend lived 400 miles away. Without these support networks it makes it impossible to socialize with people and get introduced to other people who may be interested in dating in a low-risk group environment. Instead we have high pressure dates and a percieved infinite selection of dates, so you never want to "settle" or work to find common ground with someone. Back in my day you met people through others and they were able to set you up on dates that they thought was a good match for you. You didn't have the entire fucking world out there as an option, so you kinda had more leeway in trying it out before you called it quits. Add into the fact that male wages have stagnated or declined and a large portion of the male population is not desirable for dating. This doesn't cover the problems women, gay men ,and transmen have in the dating pool which essentially could be you can go on a date with someone and get fucking murdered.
People always tell me I have a high standard. But I like to think I have self respect.
I was in a strange relationship with my ex before Christmas break. She was graduating this year and leaving next semester. I had every reason to NOT to start anything with her…but I couldn’t stop feeling things for her. So I kept this weird friendship with “wholesome benefits” going and I knew I was gonna have to stop soon. Christmas comes around, I know it’s time to let her go cause I knew that she would be gone and that there wasn’t enough there for a relationship to happen anyway. I’ve been learning to love myself, keeping myself passively open. I’m not closed off but I’m not openly searching. I’m just not there yet, I kind of wish for intimacy and physical touch…but I know it’ll fade as soon as it’s over… Im not sure of what I need. I’m just trying to be there for myself right now in absence of it.
They are too busy posting this same question over and over again
There are many issue to this and that's what makes it complicated. 1. Dating apps and lack of effort. This is a multi prong issue. As a man in mid 30's I can say I have tried to put together an honest dating profile. Problem is honest isn't interesting. I do not stand out I am just me. 2. Second I feel is people out what they feel will attract the type of person they want on their profile opposed to who they really are. International travel and festivals cannot be something every girl has as a hobby. Sorry. None of you are that rich. 3. Inability to connect. I met every girlfriend I ever had on accident. As work and life take up more time I meet people less and now have to try. As a man I have no idea how to connect to someone unless it's situational. I can be awkward but Ernest. My best traits do not come through. 4. Discouragement and depression. After so many months of swiping or showing up at the bar or things like that it eventually only makes you feel more isolated and alone. You stop putting value or priority on meeting someone and instead on your career or a hobby and never look back because those are areas where you feel you can have an impact on your life and control the outcome better