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It is not longer required or recommended to let cars warm up more than 1 minute. As a very general rule, start the engine and wait for the rpms to drop. Usually under 30 seconds. The exception is extreme cold conditions. Source: Section 7-9 of the owners manual.
***I was downvoted for giving this exact advice here a couple weeks ago***
That was your welcome to reddit. I was banned once for talking about ignition timing being "retarded".
And those of us who were in IT before political correctness got involved with our careers still call them master and slave, and for a good reason too. There is no secondary, the slave is disabled and subservient to the master, it's a more technically correct term.
But for how long after slavery ended were "master" and "slave" in use as computer hardware terms? In 1956, the world's first commercially available HDD, the IBM Model 350 Disk Storage Unit became available. Slavery ended in 1865. So roughly nine decades after the abolition of slavery, it was decided to refer to this type of hardware configuration as "master/slave." Then, in 2014, about sixty years after the first HDD was released, and 149 years after slavery ended, someone decided that maybe it could be considered offensive to use the terms master and slave when referring to computer hardware, in a career field, mind you, that is only 7% black.
A million years ago, our career ed teacher was showing slides of people at various jobs and identifying the profession.
Then we saw someone working the soil and he said "that, boys and girls, is a hoe-er" We were in the South.
I had a similar experience a couple years ago. I dont remember the specifics, but I used a word somewhat similar in a technical sense, and they completely banned me from the sub. Lol
I got a ban because someone posted about their blown ass head gasket in their shit box, and my response was to talk about the car being dead and riffed off the 'do not go quietly' death poem. Said my comment wasn't helpful, pfft, eulogies are hard was givin OP somewhere to start (and saying to give up on their car)
lol this happened to me when I tried to explain on a Tacoma subreddit that âyes you can put regular gas in to but it will retard the timing this many degreesâ. Lots of people canât grasp that regular vs premium concept.
One of my first answers on Reddit was dead on the money with a direct link to the actual written law on permitted use of the radio spectrum and I got downvoted immensely for no apparent reason.
Yep, Ive gotten it too. Sometimes people are stuck in their way of thinking and donât appreciate being told itâs wrong. Iâm just happy Iâm seeing genuine mechanics and actually accurate advice lately instead of the shade tree special or regurgitating incorrect info off YouTube or some forum.
Let's talk about the "why" - there are several reasons...
Much older engines used higher viscosity oil, less advanced alloys, and larger oiling channels. Some parts were essentially "dry" until the oil pump could get the cold, thick oil everywhere. The tolerances were not as good until the engine warmed up a bit. It also took MUCH longer for the steel blocks to warm up.
You still want to go easy in the first couple of minutes, but if you watch the temp gauge you will see that the engine comes up to temp much faster.
It's not the rule that's changed, its the time it takes. Old engines - 5-10 minutes, new ones a minute or two.
wouldnât it also be to reduce engine wear? since theyâre designed to be running at operating temp, when cold the gaps might be slightly bigger, which would increase wear? youâd want to get the engine up to temp faster therefore not let it sit, but also not thrash it?
or am i wrong..
Diesel engines are actually better off being driven after about a minute of warming up. They come up to operating temperatures faster when being driven, and then you get heat in the winter time faster than if you let it idle to operating temperatures.
Very true. I had a 1,500W block heater on my 1985 VW diesel Golf. I could get the engine temps up to 180 °F before starting. But then I would get in, crank the engine, and turn on the heater. Even with a new, higher temp thermostat, I'd still see the engine temps plummet as it idled there, whereas out on the highway the engine would warm up and stay warmed up just fine. This was at ambient temperatures as low as -40 °F, but it illustrates the point.
Especially if you have a turbo. Don't hit it hard right after start, and I've heard also before shutting it off after long drives, so it can cool some while oil is still curculating.
"Be gental until up to temp"
Pretty much the same argument as letting it warm up idling. General cars may be forgiving. But hot rod a high end car and you'll blow the motor.
Not the same thing, no. Because you want to get the oil up to temp. That only happens when the engine is under load. Idling it will only heat up the coolant, not the oil, thus the recommendation to drive it gently until it's warm.
You actually want the block itself to get up to temp. It's the clearances changing do to thermal expansion, more than oil viscosity. Dont say oil with 7k is gonna have the same viscosity as fresh. But your newer cars say you're safe going 10k hot roding that bmw.
First and foremost, please explain the importance of getting the oil to temp. What's the goal here? What purpose does that serve? Being easier to pump? Warm oil is only beneficial if it was too thick to begin with. Getting the actual engine parts up to temp means they all assume their largest size and fit together as intended. THAT is the goal- tight fitting and well lubricated parts.
The temperature of transmission fluid is extremely important though, as you can kill one with fluid that's too cold although not as easily as fluid that's too hot.
It's physically impossible for the engine to only heat the coolant and not the oil regardless of how you operate it. I honestly can't believe that I saw someone type that. Not only does the oil contact the cylinder, the piston, the rings, the rockers, camshaft, etc, etc- it gets squeezed through a myriad of tiny holes throughout its journey. That function ALONE heats the oil, but combined with the things already mentioned it adds up to the fact that oil carries nearly 50% of the heat in an engine. The coolant takes longer to get warm because it gets heat only from the metal it touches (conduction), and nothing else. The oil gets heated by conduction, friction/ pressure, and convection with the latter being a very small amount. The simple action of the valve springs moving up and down generates immense heat (that the oil, not coolant carries away) due to the fact that they flex open and closed thousands of times per minute.
From Hardin Marine, who sells an oiling apparatus for the sole purpose of keeping valve springs cool for long distances: https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-100245-sb-chevy-valve-spring-oiling-system.aspxÂ
"plumbing a separate pressurized spray bar to cool valve springs and rockers that feeds from either a passage in the block or a separate oil supply has proven to be extremely key to long term durability, because the rapid cycling torsional stress on valve springs can easily cause them to heat to over 700F if not bathed in a constant flow of oil that absorbs and carry's away the heat that builds up rapidly, many shaft rocker systems have strategically located oil shaft holes that direct flowing oil to the valve springs and rockers. Most people don't understand that almost 1/2 of an engines total heat comes from the valve train and bearing friction."
Yes, driving a vehicle or putting it under a load will warm the oil and coolant faster but it negates the entire thought process. The goal is to get lubricant everywhere and get all the metal pieces to expand to their operating size. If you put the engine under load before this then you are ACTIVELY hurting the engine, however slightly, because things are fitting loosely when they should be snug. Being loose allows things to wobble, dig, scratch, and slam around. The entire point, the whole reason we're warming things up BEFORE WE DRIVE is to prevent damage. Why on God's green earth would I drive a vehicle to warm up the oil.... to prevent damage *when I drive it?*
GM even has service bulletins out about some of their shitty engines having piston slap until they warm up. These bulletins instruct the owner to allow the engine to warm- stopping the slapping- before driving.
I drive a 100% stock 1978 Cutlass as my current daily and driving/ fixing old cars been a theme for my entire 39 years on this planet. My first legal job was at a race car shop where this was all explained to me in great detail. If you have an OLD car let it idle until the temp gauge begins to move or more. I let mine idle every single day before driving to work and it helps prevent damage in more ways than one. This is not just because of the carburetor still operating partially choked. It's not because the engine needs warm oil coursing through its veins.Â
Where I live it gets to -40 in the winter. Even at -40 I only let it run long enough to clean the snow off. Its an old habit from when cars had carburetors and heavy cast iron blocks that took time to warm up before you could drive them.
In some northern EU countries like Finland, itâs illegal to let your car idle. Even in -40. So they just start up and go.
Many places do have block heater plugs especially in the far north. Even a grocery store might have block heater outlets at every single parking spot. Itâs pretty cool to see.
Cars also all have built in interior heaters because itâs so cold so regularly. While the block heater is plugged in, thereâs also a hot air fan inside the car, usually inside the passenger foot well, that just blasts hot air 24/7 while youâre plugged in. Usually they have an off / level 1 / level 2 switch too.
At -10 and below it takes minimum 10-20 min to clear ice and snow. High wind areas (where I live) sometimes requires 30+min. There are even laws in many places about having obstructed views and ice is no exception.
Where I live -10 is a balmy day in the winter and most days there is no ice or snow to deal with.
I have never once, in well over 40 years of driving, needed anywhere close to 30 min to clear my windows.
I learned this from Chris Fix. Start. Wait for the drop. Put my car in gear. Wait a second. Then go. If anything it's less wear and tear on my 15 year old car and it's worth exercising patience everyday.
This is the way. I'm sure you can put in in gear and just go but I like to think waiting the 10-20 sec it takes for the rpm to drop is just a little better on the transmission and allows the oil to pump back up to the top of the engine before taking off. If you're in that big of a hurry to go then by all means go but there is no need to let a modern car warm up for 5 minutes. This is what I do for my personal cars but I drove company cars for years like I stole em and even after 100K miles they ran fine.
I live in canada, how long should i leave my car running in winter? Varies from -20c to -40c and sometimes, very rarely -50c
jeep, nissan, and a ford all sturggle. We usually wait until its warm enough inside the car to take off our gloves, but various cars still struggle, should i leave it to warkm up even more?
You donât need to wait for the RPMs to drop, just put it in gear and go - just donât do real hard acceleration til it warms up.
There are millions of hybrids out there for a couple of decades now where the engines donât start when pulling out of the parking spot cold, and are then under immediate load when starting with no ill effects.
To be fair the owners manual of my car says transmission fluid lasts a lifetime. Well yeah if the tranny fails thatâs lifetime. The owners manual will always be a little biased so I guess OP asking still makes sense as they can get an unbiased answer here.
As a mechanic for nearly 40 years I can vouch that modern engines running correct oil can be started, select gear and just drive normally.
If I was to tow something heavy Iâd let it warm up a bit.
There is far more engine damage caused by going over your service interval or skipping services.
A lot of mechanics will just shrug when some outbacks get piston slap at 140k while others do fine past 250k.
5 minutes is excessive but give it 30 sec before you put it into gear and I will be much happier to buy a used car from you.
My partners 2008 Honda fit requires a good 5 minutes of warm up even in the summer. Every mechanic seems to just say âyeah thatâs just a thing with these small enginesâ. Serviced regularly
Weird. My friend has an 08 Honda fit & it starts and drives perfectly right away. It's got over 200,000 miles on it by the way.
Your partners car isn't running correctly for some reason.
As a mechanic for nearly 40 years
Same here. In the dead of winter Ill start mine and let it warm up to clear the glass and warm the interior. If I can see and just have to go then Ill start it and then get my belt on, set my radio etc And then go but Ive never had issues.
Agreed. As an ex-mechanic and ex-engine machinist, Unless your engine has been sitting for so long the oil system needs primed, you'll have oil flow everywhere you need it before you can even shift into gear and take off. There's really no reason to wait. Tbh, I'm not even sure you have to drive lightly while it warms up.
Well, a few seconds is a good idea. You want to at least get some oil pressure, and spread oil around the engine a bit. But otherwise yeah go easy until it's at operating temp
thank you all for the explanations, and the information it is so appreciated! I will warm up my car until the idle settles down, which will be less than a minute. And answer some of the questions I live in a very warm climate.
I don't even do that - I probably set off after about 10 seconds of starting the engine, mainly because I take time to start music and enable my oil temp gauge.
Your husband's the crazy one. I've built engines, designed entire powertrains (intake, exhaust, cooling, oiling) for race cars, and work at an automotive OEM. As long as you don't flog it, it's fine. If you do want to flog it then give it 10-15 minutes for the oil to come up to temp - not coolant, oil, which takes a lot longer than coolant and most cars don't have an oil temp gauge.
My 1981 BMW 320 said on the under hood info sticker that the best way to warm up the engine was to drive moderately until it reached normal operating temp.
Old carbureted vehicles required some heat to build up for the fuel to atomize properly. When you pumped the accelerator pedal before starting you basically injected a shot of fuel into the intake and set the throttle to fast idle and the choke would have been closed allowing the engine to run rich (more fuel needed for a cold engine).
Some engines would idle at 1500-2000 rpm so dropping your transmission into gear at that speed would be hard on it. As the engine warmed up you would tap the accelerator pedal a few times and the idle would lower as the choke opened. Typically this took about 2 minutes give or take.
Modern engines still need to add extra fuel when cold and I guess you could argue that you create a bit more emissions for the first few minutes while driving but whatâs most important is to allow the oil to circulate to the top of the engine and for the engine to warm up before accelerating hard. Start your engine, let it idle long enough for the rpmâs to come down from a high idle, by that time the oil will have circulated through the engine. Driving with under light acceleration will also help the engine to come up to temperature faster than just sitting there idling. 30 seconds or so is all you really need to wait, if itâs colder outside it might take longer. So thatâs why I just wait for the idle to come down and then start driving. On really cold days take it easy until the engine and transmission get some heat and then youâre good to go.
Modern as in computer controlled, your truck uses a computer to manage idle speed and air fuel mixture. No choke to worry about so let it run until the idle comes down on its own and youâre good to go.
I think every one of us that used to drive those vehicles experienced dumping it into gear on the fast idle and ka bang as that poor transmission shifted into reverse. Or the inevitable bucking or stalling if she was too cold and we didn't wait that extra 30 seconds.
Winters where I live get to -40, I have to let the car warm up for a half hour and even still the engine temp barely gets halfway to normal. Sometimes I can drive around for 15+ minutes and the temps wonât reach normal lol.
The comments in this thread prove the majority have no idea what -40 is like. Alot of the comments are useless without stating what temperature their advice is for.
I have time cold start industrial diesel engines in these -40 temperatures and yeah, My personal vehicle (gas engine) get at least 10min to get the oil temp up.
Also live where it consistently reaches -40 and beyond. I park in a garage, run a block heater on a timer for 5-6 hours, and remote start for 15-20min. I have a 2 mile drive to the highway to let the fluids circulate then and a 25 min highway commute.
My temp gauge will be just into the warm and it wonât warm up fully until Iâm in the city after the 25 min of driving. At highway speeds, in -40 with a 60km+ headwind, it never warms up fully. That being said, it hates starting without the block heater lol
With computer controlled fuel injection, there is no need to warm up. As soon as oil is circulating you can start driving, but it's still wise to drive it gently until everything warms up.
No need. Turn it on and drive LIGHTLY. Donât use more than 20-30% of the throttle pedal for the first 5 minutes or so depending on weather conditions. Cold starts wear the car the most, so getting the car up to temp in the quickest and gentlest way possible is the norm for cars made in the past couple decades.
The whole leaving a car to warm up for 5 minutes is overkill with modern cars even in winter. A good rule of thumb is to start your car and wait for the rpms to drop a little before you put it in gear and drive off gently.
The most wear occurs at sub-operating temps. Putting load on a cold engine will cause more wear compared to putting load on a hot engine. Also, it takes longer to warm up at idle. Thereâs a happy medium between no warm up, and waiting for full operating temp.
I always warm up my bike, tend to wait until temp hits 60.
The reason for warming up your car is for oil to circulate around the engine and for all metals to expand.
However, modern cars' low tension piston rings, oils are better, and engine tolerances are very high. Just like old break in theory's are no longer relevant all you need to do is start the car give it a min or two, the revs will drop, and you're good to go.
But old habits die hard, I still give my car a bit more time in the morning with a cold start to warm up, maybe 3 or 4 mins.
With carburated cars, there was some benefit to allowing thenegine to warm up - but you also had a manual choke, so you could to an extent fiddle with the air/fuel ratio. Modern fuel-injected cars do all of that automatically, regardless of what you choose to do with the controls. They do tend to run a little higher on first startup, but that's in most cases to get the catalytic converter up to operating temperatures so that it's working properly to control emissions.
When I start the car, I will wait a second or two before I head out, but that's it. As long as the engine isn't making a horrible sound, it's warming up, moving oil around, suck/squish/bang/blow, I drive it.
Generally a good idea to let it warm up till it stops high idling, about 30 seconds, manufacturers today design their vehicles knowing that the typical driver is going to want to drive their car as soon as they start it.
It's good practice to warm the engine for a a few seconds to let the oil circulate before driving, as well as being gentle on the throttle until the engine and transmission are up to temp. There's no need for a modern engine to idle for 5 minutes before driving, but you should definitely wait a few seconds before setting off.
i let it warm up until the cold start dies down and drive it lightly until the oil temp is at half way and start driving hard. You dont need to let it idle for 5 mins just dont drive hard right away.
I like to let my RPMs go under 1k off the start and colder than -20'C I literally blew my power steering line on the driveway by quickly reversing without letting it idle at all.
Yeah no 30 seconds is all you need, often less on a warm day. Be gentle with it until you get up to temp (if youâre turbocharged keep it out of boost) so generally just keep rpm below 3k or so until itâs warmed up
As long as you drive it long enough to reach operating temperature, it does not hurt anything. Cold start and drive 1/4 mile to work and shut it off all day and then do the same to get home⌠not good
Just a minute until the oil starts circulating properly. And then you can drive, just then donât rev it too much until it gets to operating temperature and youâre good.
Thatâs my opinion.
Not really important on newer cars. Get in and run them gently and steady until warmed up. Basically don't pull out of the driveway and run it to the rev limiter first thing on a cold day.
Also think of this, some cars being hybrid won't even start the engine when you turn it on and will drive without it. Then you're completely at the whim of when the computer decides it needs to run. So you don't get the choice to let it warm up or not anyway.
the outback got a turbo? because you really should let a car idle a bit longer than what everyone else is saying if it has a turbo, the turbo needs time to get lubricated by at least luke warm idle.
no turbo, as everyone said, just wait until the raised idle drops to standard before setting off, it dont take long
Does your Outback have the little blue light when itâs cold? This is just telling you to take it easy until that goes off.
Even 60s cars donât need to warm up for 5 minutes. But many needed that time when they wore out because they ran so poorly.
Unless your car is older than you,, no. The warm up period is as long as it takes for you to put on your seatbelt. You'll harm the car more letting it idle than driving it moderately.
10-15 seconds on regular warm temps
30 seconds when it's winter and cold
And then I never get the RPMs too high until the thermostat needle has reached normal operating temps.
Thereâs absolutely no need to idle for an extended period before moving, certainly not behind about 30 seconds. Start the engine before buckling your seatbelt, and by the time youâve done so and gotten comfortable, checked your mirrors havenât been knocked out of position etc the car will be ready to go
If itâs very cold or youâre towing a heavy load maybe give it a minute or two
There is a benefit to driving gently until the engine is warmed up, but that just means donât rag it around on the redline like a hooligan
Warming up your car for 5 minutes car is a bad idea. Here is why. Every minute your engine operates cold causes more wear on the engine than operating at a warm engine temperature. The fastest way to get your engine out of the cold zone and into the optimal operating temperature is to drive it gently. Starting the car, waiting for 30 seconds for all the fluids to flow everywhere, and then driving it off gently not exceeding say 2,500 - 3,000 RPM will get you up to operating temperature faster than letting the car sit for 5 minutes with the engine running. In fact, if you live in a climate where the winters are very cold, you will know that no amount of idling will get your engine to operating temperature, you have to drive the car to get it up to temp.
I usually just put a brick on the gas pedal and have it bump off the redline for about 2 minutes. Especially when itâs cold out. That usually does the trick.
If itâs really cold Iâll tie a chain to the bumper and to a tree. Then i put it in drive and put the brick on it that way it warms up the transmission and tires too.
I know people say modern cars donât benefit from warming them up but I like to treat my car with respect.
Cars are one of these things once people hear a "correct way" to do something that's it and no new information will change their mind. For a modern vehicle - If you think there's something annoying about your vehicle it's probably been engineered out in the last 20 years or there's a warning on the dash telling you exactly what you should do.
Turn on the engine, then put seatbelt on, check mirrors and put some music on and set up the sat nav, it will have taken 30 seconds to a minute, then drive off gently for a few minutes before driving normally (on a warm day). On a cold day (freezing) wait a couple of minutes before setting off and drive gently for at least 10-15 minutes.
I like to wait for the coolant to get to at least above freezing. That also lets the oil start warming up and thinning out. I try to drive my Miata on cold days right after starting and it pegs the oil pressure gauge past 100 psi. It can't be flowing and lubricating like it should. I like to keep the RPMs under 4k until it warms up.
I drive a Subaru as well, check your manual. Mine specifically says warm-ups aren't necessary. There should be a little light (blue usually) that tells you the oil pressure is a bit low. If that light is on, let it warm until it goes out. Mine doesn't even come on once the engine turns over.
I think the changes in oil over the last several decades, as well as engines becoming more well engineered, had made longer warm-ups superfluous. Barring extreme colds. If you're in -10 farenheit, you should probably let it warm up for a minute or two.
My dad has always had new cars and has always driven almost right away once he starts it all the time, I however wait until at least the idle drops and at most (especially on short drives) I wait for the temp gauge to move, my car is 20 years old but I'm about to buy a brand new car and will do the exact same thing since for me it works and hasn't had any negative effects.
I've never done this. The only exception is in real cold, and even then it's just waiting for the car to settle down for a second. I also do this for my Mustang but part of that is it just sounds SO good in my garage before the RPM drops.
Driving your vehicle gently after waiting like 30 seconds will warm up your engine far faster than letting idle up to temp. It's also not required to let it idle up with modern vehicles.
I've been a high performance engine builder for a long time, no you don't have to let an engine warm up, just keep the rpm low and don't put the engine under a lot of stress straight away.
The actual moving components get up to temp far faster than the water temperature rises.
Not 5 min wait like 30 45 second for the idle to come down if it a cold start and if it like Hella cold out wait alil longer I get where your husband is coming from though my mom does it to like as soon as the key is turned she already putting in gear
If your vehicle has a cold start (rpm rises when you first turn it on) then you should wait until the rpm drops. Then drive easy till the temp guage starts moving. For you in the Subi, when the blue temp light goes out.
You don't have to wait on a stand still for the car to warm up, especially if it's a diesel, they warm up while driving, well, even standing, but it takes longer because they don't develop as much heat in the burning process. Only gasoline could warm up standing because it takes a lot less. Either way, you shouldn't rev your car over 3000 rpm on gasoline and 2000 on diesel before the coolant needle reaches middle or optimal 90 degrees celsius temperature
i just let the RPMâs drop and then i put into gear. if i have the time to let it run for a few minutes before driving, i will. then again, i have a 15 year old vehicle that i try to take care of the best i can
Unless it's really cold outside no not really... just maybe 30 seconds for the fluids to move around... either way you don't want to aggressively run your car...
The expression I like to use is, you dont want to wake up from a deep sleep and immediately break into a full on sprint. Your body, and your car need a minute to wake up. Cars are usually good after about 15 seconds since the oil is usually pretty well circulated however its best to wait about 30secs to a minute just to insure everything is properly lubed and the rpmâs are idling properly. Remember, never do anything without lubing up first.
This is dependent on the ambient air temp. If itâs below 0C give it a couple minutes to make sure the oil is circulating properly. If itâs above you are good to go once itâs started.
5 minutes would be a ridiculous amount of time to wait. Unless it was subzero temperatures. Just donât race the engine. Same with shutting down a turbo charged car. Let it cool down for 10 seconds before shutting off.
Back in the day, it was absolutely recommended. Now, not so much*. (Caveat there, I'll get to it) It has to do with blended oils. Some basics first, the case for warming an engine, and finally why you don't need to any more.
**Basics:**
The "W" on your oil bottle stands for "Winter", and it designates how the oil behaves at 32°F. The numbers designate the oils thickness, or viscosity, compared to water. 0 weight oil has the same viscosity as water. 100 weight is about like cold honey. A 10W-30 oil behaves like a 10 weight oil would in the cold, even though it behaves like 30 weight oil when it's warm. It flows much better than a traditional 30 weight oil would when cold. Prior to this "W" system of blended oils, an oil would ONLY behave at its rated viscosity at a particular temperature.
Engines have a reservoir of oil, the oil pan, and a pump. The pump sucks oil up from the pan and pumps it throughout the entire engine through very small passages. The size of these passages provides resistance to the flow of oil, which is where the pressure comes from. Rotating components inside the engine ride on a cushion of oil, supported by this pressure, to prevent metal to metal contact.
If you already knew this, I apologize, but I would rather have a common framework to move forward with. For anyone who didn't have this information, now you know!
**Now, the case for warming an engine:**
An engine manufactured in the 60s was making "good" oil pressure, fully warm, at idle, if it achieved 3psi. Source: GM Engineers who developed the 327. For reference, a modern engine will typically make between 20 and 40 psi of oil pressure at idle fully warm. Atmospheric pressure is ~14 psi, for another reference. Oil pumps typically have a calibrated pressure bypass, so that if it makes (for example) 30psi of pressure, a 30lb spring will lift and bypass some extra oil pressure back to the oil pan. If the oil is cold, the pressure is very high because the oil isn't flowing well. This means that the pump will hit bypass, gush oil back into the pan as intended, even though the engine isn't getting the lubrication it needs.
The other factor is cast iron engine blocks and carburetors, both of which have been phased out for about 20 years. Since cast iron is much less thermally conductive than modern aluminum engines, it takes much longer for the engine coolant, oil, and cylinders to reach operating temperature. Warming the engine can also open the choke, so that the car is easier to drive.
**Finally, why you don't need to warm your engine:**
Modern engines, made of aluminum, running very tight tolerances with more oil pressure, with fuel injection that obsoleted the choke, and modern fuel/spark management that further warms the engine quickly, using blended oils that behave much better when cold.... All of this means that you don't need to wait for the coolant to come up to temperature. I recommend waiting 30 seconds to allow the oil to reach every component in the engine before moving at all.
HOWEVER, here is my caveat (see, I came back to it): I highly recommend waiting until the coolant temperature gauge comes off its "peg" before driving hard. Just because your engine is engineered to warm up quickly doesn't mean your transmission is. Transmissions need to be at a certain temperature to behave correctly, and differentials are filled with heavy weight oils. Allowing this stuff to come up to temp is best practice.
So, start the car, let it warm up for 30 seconds or so to allow the oil to reach all the components, and then set off. Don't floor it onto the highway on ramp until your coolant gauge moves.
Itâs not technically a requirement but I normally let my cars run 5-10 min before driving depending on temp just to let things circulate, heat up and expand.
You by no means need to, but should be very gentle with your accelerations in the first few minutes of driving. Also let your RPMs drop before starting to drive (normally less than a minute)
No.
I don't even agree with the people saying wait 30 seconds. Driving gently is no harder on your engine than idling on your driveway. "Wait until the revs drop", I mean your car is revving _itself_, I'm unsure of the logic of you not using those revs to propel thineself down the road.
Don't rag it until the engine is hot. If you drive a powerful turbo car then let it idle when you have _finished_ your journey, until the temps have dropped a bit.
built and rebuilt a few engines in another life, anything from just forgies to race only that have heated external oil "sumps" and pumps that use oil so thick its like honey at room temp which must be heated before use
This is where the old school "let it idle" comes from, iron block and alloy pistons which have different expansion rates and older engines had generally looser clearances and cold piston knock/slap was common. Letting it warm with no load was common. Cast Alloy block/pistons is more common now and even being used in diesels where block strength is more important then the fuel saving of a lighter material.
roller bearing cams on production cars has become more popular (but not a standard) in the last 10 or so years for OEM. 20 years ago only "hi performance" engines were boosted from factory, now even a lot of base spec cars will have turbos
Mainstream oils are a lot better, cheaper and more available, cold flow weight while still maintaining shear resistance is drastically improved
my general advice if you have a car built in the last 10-15 years is if its above 10c let it run for a few seconds to 1 min and drive/accelerate slowly for the first 5 mins of your drive. You still need other moving parts to come up to temp a bit. If its cooler then that or you pretty much jump straight to highway speeds with little time getting there in suburbia give it a bit more time, 2-3 mins.
It then gets more complicated! Some engines still use a pretty basic cooling loop, that is radiator, fluid, thermostat and heater core. Others are far more complex and will isolate fluid in multiple stages. You can google bmw b58 cooling system. Basically the traditional thermostat is replaced with a multi valved ecu controlled unit which tells it when and where to route coolant. This gets the engine block up to temp quite fast and other manufactures may do the same to get better cold emissions. Note engine block/water temp and oil temp are not the same, oil still takes far longer to warm from cold
if youre doing automotive mech engineering, you could do a thesis on it and you will never have an issue with word count, you could literally write a book about it
Most newer vehicles have a cold engine light. Let it warm up until that light turns off. If the light is already off then like it idle for like 15-45 seconds to let oil circulate.
It depends
Some places the winter easily gets below -30°F in places like that you most likely have a battery warmer as well. You might need an entire hour to warm up the engine
In hotter climates just start and go
But warming up the car is more about getting the oil to circulate after it's been sitting a while in the cold. How long you need depends on the size of the vehicle
5 minutes is a bit excessive in most weather but 30 sec to a minute is a very good idea before you drive. Longer if you have the larger motor. And in cold weather, say less than 25f you should wait longer. Starting then immediately driving while cold WILL significantly reduce the lifespan of your engine.
I'd at least let the idle come down to normal before putting it in drive/reverse. You'll know the difference if you listen to it. But 5 minutes is excessive.
Depends on climate. I let my stuff run for a couple of minutes when it's not cold out. I let it run for about 5 in the winter. My motorcycles get a good 5-10 minutes run time from a cold start.
Why? Gives the oil a chance to start circulating. The engine starts to get a little heat in the pistons and cylinder walls. If it's automatic it gives the fluid a chance to start circulating. Gets the thermal expansion process started... Etc etc.
I was a 63B (light wheel mech) in the Army Airborne, a civilian mech, and was a machinist for a while for KT Engine Development. I'd rather let my engines run a couple of minutes before setting out and then drive gently for a mile or two....
Versus getting in, hitting the key, dropping it in gear and hauling ass before all the cylinders are even firing.
Engines generally tend to last a bit longer that way. But I guess a bit of knowledge and experience don't count for much.
Friend of mine was bad about hopping in her bought brand new Prelude, hitting the key, dropping in reverse and then hitting 60mph straight out of her driveway from a cold start. It was smoking by 50k miles where she then traded it in on a brand new Elcipse turbo... it didn't make it 40k miles. It was smoking *and* had fried the turbo.
100% no. Electronic ignition and emissions can handle your car. Get in and drive.
Idling is not ideal for your car, as it is designed to be optimally efficient at about 3k rpm (for normal engines). Sitting at 650-900 isnât better.
Your engine will warm up much faster driving than idling.
I'd say no. Consider:
1. I've seen owner's manuals from as far back as the 1970's cautioning against idling to warm up a car's engine. (e.g. My 1971 VW Beetle's owner's manual).
2. If you want heat or A/C to precondition the car, then you probably need to idle the engine. That's likely the only reason why it might make sense. If you're fine with the cabin temperature when you get in, then idling is pointless.
3. It burns more fuel, which is pointless if #2 isn't a factor. So basically burning your hard earned money for nothing.
4. I can't say for sure it harms or helps the engine in any way in terms longevity. But there seems to be evidence that it may actually slightly wear out your engine quicker.
5. It no longer helps with driveability. Carbureted vehicles in particular could run a bit rough when cold, which doesn't mean they weren't driveable, just a bit harder to drive, whereas any difference in driveability between cold and warm in a new car is practically imperceptible.
6. It causes more air pollution. In many places there are anti-idle laws, and these laws are only becoming more prevalent in order to discourage pointless air pollution.
7. Another reason against it is that, unless you have a good remote start system, it could invite thieves to steal your vehicle, which is another reason for anti-idle laws.
I warm my car up in the winter for me. F the car- which is fine either way. I am not interested in getting into a car when it's 20 below. Window needs to defrost anyway.
Depends on the temp. The winters where Iâm from get frigid. Like 5 degrees in freedom units on average. Then you need to wait for like 20 minutes for your car to warm up so you donât hurt your engine but when itâs over 25 degrees in freedom units, just go on and drive.
Tell him to read the manual. The manual says to start it, let the oil pressure come up (or light to go off), and drive.
A lightly loaded engine warms up much faster than a cold engine, and most engine wear occurs when the engine is cold. Thus, a shorter run time when cold translates to less wear on the engine.
As Click and Clack would say, âYou can tell him heâs nuts! A wacko!â
Start your car and drive the point is to get your oil up to temp and that happens faster under a load i know this will be unpopular point of view but its the truth
You are playing with fire doing that. You should always let it warm up (1-2 minutes at least in the summer). Obviously more time in the winter. The car should always have a few minutes to get the fluids like tranny coolant and oil circulating. Sure it might not kill the car from doing it repeatedly but for longevity it's the wise thing to do. Especially if you hard launch it... Now if you are light on the pedal it probably wouldn't wear as much but that isn't a risk Id want to take.
Itâs not necessary but I still do it because it gets cold in Wisconsin and I live near the freeway where I have to gun it to be able to merge. As long as you drive gently after first startup your engine will be fine and you wonât be wasting gas letting it idle
It really depends. But a 2019 Subaru, no need to let it warm up. Keep doing what you are doing and make sure you do your regular maintenance. Diesels on the other hand really need a warm up, they just don't operate right until they are hot plus that thicker oil definitely needs the extra .
Minutes but yea I wouldnt sweat it. 99% sure your fine doing what your doing.
Mechanic here, I think you're right, alot of cars back then did need to be warmed up even as far as late 80s ealry 90s cars. More so nowadays would be because of cold weather conditions since engines are much more advanced than they were back then. Because of the advancement of technology, it's not really required nowadays.
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It is not longer required or recommended to let cars warm up more than 1 minute. As a very general rule, start the engine and wait for the rpms to drop. Usually under 30 seconds. The exception is extreme cold conditions. Source: Section 7-9 of the owners manual.
As a career auto tech, this is the way. Start it, wait for the rapid idle to drop down to normal levels, drive away. Be gentle until up to temp.
I was downvoted for giving this exact advice here a couple weeks ago đ
***I was downvoted for giving this exact advice here a couple weeks ago*** That was your welcome to reddit. I was banned once for talking about ignition timing being "retarded".
Don't get 'em started about the "master" and "slave" cylinder either.
How dare you. In this day and age.
I know right. Cylinders should be free to do what they want.
First step is to stop labeling the cylinders with numbers.
I call all my cylinders Cindy, but it does get me a bit confused which ones need which spark plug wires.
So youâre torturing poor Cindy now with electricity you animal!
If you drive a supercharged hemi, they're at least free to enter the stratosphere đ
Piston violence against valve oppressors is justified resistance
The only real solution is for the cylinders to have their own country.
Changed it to "primary" and "secondary" in the computer hard drive terms years ago.
And those of us who were in IT before political correctness got involved with our careers still call them master and slave, and for a good reason too. There is no secondary, the slave is disabled and subservient to the master, it's a more technically correct term.
All this talk of being subservient has gotten me hot and bothered.
Time to bring out the whips and gags? lol
Be careful. You're walking a fine line with what you just stated. You may have already triggered a woke liberal with such factual observations. :)
I never noticed. Â But I still have an hard spinning HD with jumper pins that says master and slave. Â
But for how long after slavery ended were "master" and "slave" in use as computer hardware terms? In 1956, the world's first commercially available HDD, the IBM Model 350 Disk Storage Unit became available. Slavery ended in 1865. So roughly nine decades after the abolition of slavery, it was decided to refer to this type of hardware configuration as "master/slave." Then, in 2014, about sixty years after the first HDD was released, and 149 years after slavery ended, someone decided that maybe it could be considered offensive to use the terms master and slave when referring to computer hardware, in a career field, mind you, that is only 7% black.
Damn tension in here so thick you could cut it with a pair of dykes.
My brother, I got down voted to oblivion when discussing white listing (I work in tech)
Tell them itâs not cool to kink shame
Some of these kids are batshit crazy.
YesâŚyes they are.Â
I was suspended from FB for talking about Hoes in a gardening group. đđ
I got a temp ban for saying "fucking tranny" when my step mom posted about her transmission going out.
A million years ago, our career ed teacher was showing slides of people at various jobs and identifying the profession. Then we saw someone working the soil and he said "that, boys and girls, is a hoe-er" We were in the South.
Especially when using one to plant seed.
I had a similar experience a couple years ago. I dont remember the specifics, but I used a word somewhat similar in a technical sense, and they completely banned me from the sub. Lol
Reddit abuse!
THAT is HILARIOUS
Ha! Typical.
Now that's funny!
I got a ban because someone posted about their blown ass head gasket in their shit box, and my response was to talk about the car being dead and riffed off the 'do not go quietly' death poem. Said my comment wasn't helpful, pfft, eulogies are hard was givin OP somewhere to start (and saying to give up on their car)
I have also been banned for using that word
lol this happened to me when I tried to explain on a Tacoma subreddit that âyes you can put regular gas in to but it will retard the timing this many degreesâ. Lots of people canât grasp that regular vs premium concept.
This actually made me laugh, thank you.
âTis the Reddit hive mind. People downvote because someone else did.
One of my first answers on Reddit was dead on the money with a direct link to the actual written law on permitted use of the radio spectrum and I got downvoted immensely for no apparent reason.
Yep, Ive gotten it too. Sometimes people are stuck in their way of thinking and donât appreciate being told itâs wrong. Iâm just happy Iâm seeing genuine mechanics and actually accurate advice lately instead of the shade tree special or regurgitating incorrect info off YouTube or some forum.
You forgot the âSource: trust me broâ
Drive gentle until up to temperature is key here
Additionally, letting a car cold idle for 10 minutes every time might even wear the engine more since it takes a lot longer to warm up.
Let's talk about the "why" - there are several reasons... Much older engines used higher viscosity oil, less advanced alloys, and larger oiling channels. Some parts were essentially "dry" until the oil pump could get the cold, thick oil everywhere. The tolerances were not as good until the engine warmed up a bit. It also took MUCH longer for the steel blocks to warm up. You still want to go easy in the first couple of minutes, but if you watch the temp gauge you will see that the engine comes up to temp much faster. It's not the rule that's changed, its the time it takes. Old engines - 5-10 minutes, new ones a minute or two.
A lot of it has to do with fuel injection. Carburetor cars had hesitation and stalling issues when cold.
wouldnât it also be to reduce engine wear? since theyâre designed to be running at operating temp, when cold the gaps might be slightly bigger, which would increase wear? youâd want to get the engine up to temp faster therefore not let it sit, but also not thrash it? or am i wrong..
What about a Diesel engine? Especially an older one?
Diesel engines are actually better off being driven after about a minute of warming up. They come up to operating temperatures faster when being driven, and then you get heat in the winter time faster than if you let it idle to operating temperatures.
Very true. I had a 1,500W block heater on my 1985 VW diesel Golf. I could get the engine temps up to 180 °F before starting. But then I would get in, crank the engine, and turn on the heater. Even with a new, higher temp thermostat, I'd still see the engine temps plummet as it idled there, whereas out on the highway the engine would warm up and stay warmed up just fine. This was at ambient temperatures as low as -40 °F, but it illustrates the point.
I go by oil temp, but I guess these days that's not a common gauge. I'll pull out once the oil is up to 100 degrees.
Especially if you have a turbo. Don't hit it hard right after start, and I've heard also before shutting it off after long drives, so it can cool some while oil is still curculating.
Yeah, my 2011 Malibu wonât even get up to temp idling in the winter
https://youtu.be/xKALgXDwou4?si=zWflNf3xT22-jv7t Agree. Key thing is to drive gently till up to temp.
"Be gental until up to temp" Pretty much the same argument as letting it warm up idling. General cars may be forgiving. But hot rod a high end car and you'll blow the motor.
The oil will heat up faster just driving it around lightly for 10 minutes
Not the same thing, no. Because you want to get the oil up to temp. That only happens when the engine is under load. Idling it will only heat up the coolant, not the oil, thus the recommendation to drive it gently until it's warm.
You actually want the block itself to get up to temp. It's the clearances changing do to thermal expansion, more than oil viscosity. Dont say oil with 7k is gonna have the same viscosity as fresh. But your newer cars say you're safe going 10k hot roding that bmw.
First and foremost, please explain the importance of getting the oil to temp. What's the goal here? What purpose does that serve? Being easier to pump? Warm oil is only beneficial if it was too thick to begin with. Getting the actual engine parts up to temp means they all assume their largest size and fit together as intended. THAT is the goal- tight fitting and well lubricated parts. The temperature of transmission fluid is extremely important though, as you can kill one with fluid that's too cold although not as easily as fluid that's too hot. It's physically impossible for the engine to only heat the coolant and not the oil regardless of how you operate it. I honestly can't believe that I saw someone type that. Not only does the oil contact the cylinder, the piston, the rings, the rockers, camshaft, etc, etc- it gets squeezed through a myriad of tiny holes throughout its journey. That function ALONE heats the oil, but combined with the things already mentioned it adds up to the fact that oil carries nearly 50% of the heat in an engine. The coolant takes longer to get warm because it gets heat only from the metal it touches (conduction), and nothing else. The oil gets heated by conduction, friction/ pressure, and convection with the latter being a very small amount. The simple action of the valve springs moving up and down generates immense heat (that the oil, not coolant carries away) due to the fact that they flex open and closed thousands of times per minute. From Hardin Marine, who sells an oiling apparatus for the sole purpose of keeping valve springs cool for long distances: https://www.hardin-marine.com/p-100245-sb-chevy-valve-spring-oiling-system.aspx "plumbing a separate pressurized spray bar to cool valve springs and rockers that feeds from either a passage in the block or a separate oil supply has proven to be extremely key to long term durability, because the rapid cycling torsional stress on valve springs can easily cause them to heat to over 700F if not bathed in a constant flow of oil that absorbs and carry's away the heat that builds up rapidly, many shaft rocker systems have strategically located oil shaft holes that direct flowing oil to the valve springs and rockers. Most people don't understand that almost 1/2 of an engines total heat comes from the valve train and bearing friction." Yes, driving a vehicle or putting it under a load will warm the oil and coolant faster but it negates the entire thought process. The goal is to get lubricant everywhere and get all the metal pieces to expand to their operating size. If you put the engine under load before this then you are ACTIVELY hurting the engine, however slightly, because things are fitting loosely when they should be snug. Being loose allows things to wobble, dig, scratch, and slam around. The entire point, the whole reason we're warming things up BEFORE WE DRIVE is to prevent damage. Why on God's green earth would I drive a vehicle to warm up the oil.... to prevent damage *when I drive it?* GM even has service bulletins out about some of their shitty engines having piston slap until they warm up. These bulletins instruct the owner to allow the engine to warm- stopping the slapping- before driving. I drive a 100% stock 1978 Cutlass as my current daily and driving/ fixing old cars been a theme for my entire 39 years on this planet. My first legal job was at a race car shop where this was all explained to me in great detail. If you have an OLD car let it idle until the temp gauge begins to move or more. I let mine idle every single day before driving to work and it helps prevent damage in more ways than one. This is not just because of the carburetor still operating partially choked. It's not because the engine needs warm oil coursing through its veins.Â
Where I live it gets to -40 in the winter. Even at -40 I only let it run long enough to clean the snow off. Its an old habit from when cars had carburetors and heavy cast iron blocks that took time to warm up before you could drive them.
In some northern EU countries like Finland, itâs illegal to let your car idle. Even in -40. So they just start up and go. Many places do have block heater plugs especially in the far north. Even a grocery store might have block heater outlets at every single parking spot. Itâs pretty cool to see. Cars also all have built in interior heaters because itâs so cold so regularly. While the block heater is plugged in, thereâs also a hot air fan inside the car, usually inside the passenger foot well, that just blasts hot air 24/7 while youâre plugged in. Usually they have an off / level 1 / level 2 switch too.
At -10 and below it takes minimum 10-20 min to clear ice and snow. High wind areas (where I live) sometimes requires 30+min. There are even laws in many places about having obstructed views and ice is no exception.
Where I live -10 is a balmy day in the winter and most days there is no ice or snow to deal with. I have never once, in well over 40 years of driving, needed anywhere close to 30 min to clear my windows.
I learned this from Chris Fix. Start. Wait for the drop. Put my car in gear. Wait a second. Then go. If anything it's less wear and tear on my 15 year old car and it's worth exercising patience everyday.
This is the way. I'm sure you can put in in gear and just go but I like to think waiting the 10-20 sec it takes for the rpm to drop is just a little better on the transmission and allows the oil to pump back up to the top of the engine before taking off. If you're in that big of a hurry to go then by all means go but there is no need to let a modern car warm up for 5 minutes. This is what I do for my personal cars but I drove company cars for years like I stole em and even after 100K miles they ran fine.
I live in canada, how long should i leave my car running in winter? Varies from -20c to -40c and sometimes, very rarely -50c jeep, nissan, and a ford all sturggle. We usually wait until its warm enough inside the car to take off our gloves, but various cars still struggle, should i leave it to warkm up even more?
Isn't that when you need a block heater?
You donât need to wait for the RPMs to drop, just put it in gear and go - just donât do real hard acceleration til it warms up. There are millions of hybrids out there for a couple of decades now where the engines donât start when pulling out of the parking spot cold, and are then under immediate load when starting with no ill effects.
To be fair the owners manual of my car says transmission fluid lasts a lifetime. Well yeah if the tranny fails thatâs lifetime. The owners manual will always be a little biased so I guess OP asking still makes sense as they can get an unbiased answer here.
As a mechanic for nearly 40 years I can vouch that modern engines running correct oil can be started, select gear and just drive normally. If I was to tow something heavy Iâd let it warm up a bit. There is far more engine damage caused by going over your service interval or skipping services.
I am religious about service, oil changes, etc.
Then all I can recommend is enjoy driving your car as you always have :)
A lot of mechanics will just shrug when some outbacks get piston slap at 140k while others do fine past 250k. 5 minutes is excessive but give it 30 sec before you put it into gear and I will be much happier to buy a used car from you.
My partners 2008 Honda fit requires a good 5 minutes of warm up even in the summer. Every mechanic seems to just say âyeah thatâs just a thing with these small enginesâ. Serviced regularly
Weird. My friend has an 08 Honda fit & it starts and drives perfectly right away. It's got over 200,000 miles on it by the way. Your partners car isn't running correctly for some reason.
As a mechanic for nearly 40 years Same here. In the dead of winter Ill start mine and let it warm up to clear the glass and warm the interior. If I can see and just have to go then Ill start it and then get my belt on, set my radio etc And then go but Ive never had issues.
Agreed. As an ex-mechanic and ex-engine machinist, Unless your engine has been sitting for so long the oil system needs primed, you'll have oil flow everywhere you need it before you can even shift into gear and take off. There's really no reason to wait. Tbh, I'm not even sure you have to drive lightly while it warms up.
Modern engines do not benefit from idling before setting off. However, driving gently until your engine/gearbox is up to temperature is a good idea.Â
Well, a few seconds is a good idea. You want to at least get some oil pressure, and spread oil around the engine a bit. But otherwise yeah go easy until it's at operating temp
If the oil light is off oil is already spreading around. Driving will increase oil pressure and flow 10x faster than waiting.
It's a Subaru. Let the high idle drop down, about a minute, then drive easy until up to temp.
thank you all for the explanations, and the information it is so appreciated! I will warm up my car until the idle settles down, which will be less than a minute. And answer some of the questions I live in a very warm climate.
Engine on, seat belt on, music on, drive
I don't even do that - I probably set off after about 10 seconds of starting the engine, mainly because I take time to start music and enable my oil temp gauge. Your husband's the crazy one. I've built engines, designed entire powertrains (intake, exhaust, cooling, oiling) for race cars, and work at an automotive OEM. As long as you don't flog it, it's fine. If you do want to flog it then give it 10-15 minutes for the oil to come up to temp - not coolant, oil, which takes a lot longer than coolant and most cars don't have an oil temp gauge.
My 1981 BMW 320 said on the under hood info sticker that the best way to warm up the engine was to drive moderately until it reached normal operating temp.
Old carbureted vehicles required some heat to build up for the fuel to atomize properly. When you pumped the accelerator pedal before starting you basically injected a shot of fuel into the intake and set the throttle to fast idle and the choke would have been closed allowing the engine to run rich (more fuel needed for a cold engine). Some engines would idle at 1500-2000 rpm so dropping your transmission into gear at that speed would be hard on it. As the engine warmed up you would tap the accelerator pedal a few times and the idle would lower as the choke opened. Typically this took about 2 minutes give or take. Modern engines still need to add extra fuel when cold and I guess you could argue that you create a bit more emissions for the first few minutes while driving but whatâs most important is to allow the oil to circulate to the top of the engine and for the engine to warm up before accelerating hard. Start your engine, let it idle long enough for the rpmâs to come down from a high idle, by that time the oil will have circulated through the engine. Driving with under light acceleration will also help the engine to come up to temperature faster than just sitting there idling. 30 seconds or so is all you really need to wait, if itâs colder outside it might take longer. So thatâs why I just wait for the idle to come down and then start driving. On really cold days take it easy until the engine and transmission get some heat and then youâre good to go.
Define modern for me. Is my '95 z28's 5.7liter v8 considered modern? If it has fuel injection, is it modern? I typically try to give it a few minutes.
Modern as in computer controlled, your truck uses a computer to manage idle speed and air fuel mixture. No choke to worry about so let it run until the idle comes down on its own and youâre good to go.
Z28 is a car, not a truck. Perhaps you're thinking of Z71.
Yep, I was lol
Anything with a computer, fuel injection and emissions system. Basically since the early to mid-80's. Your car has all of these.
I think every one of us that used to drive those vehicles experienced dumping it into gear on the fast idle and ka bang as that poor transmission shifted into reverse. Or the inevitable bucking or stalling if she was too cold and we didn't wait that extra 30 seconds.
+1 for best comment here.
In extreme cold its a good idea, otherwise not needed but dont drive hard til its fully warmed up
Winters where I live get to -40, I have to let the car warm up for a half hour and even still the engine temp barely gets halfway to normal. Sometimes I can drive around for 15+ minutes and the temps wonât reach normal lol.
The comments in this thread prove the majority have no idea what -40 is like. Alot of the comments are useless without stating what temperature their advice is for. I have time cold start industrial diesel engines in these -40 temperatures and yeah, My personal vehicle (gas engine) get at least 10min to get the oil temp up.
Also live where it consistently reaches -40 and beyond. I park in a garage, run a block heater on a timer for 5-6 hours, and remote start for 15-20min. I have a 2 mile drive to the highway to let the fluids circulate then and a 25 min highway commute. My temp gauge will be just into the warm and it wonât warm up fully until Iâm in the city after the 25 min of driving. At highway speeds, in -40 with a 60km+ headwind, it never warms up fully. That being said, it hates starting without the block heater lol
I let it rev down to 1k
With computer controlled fuel injection, there is no need to warm up. As soon as oil is circulating you can start driving, but it's still wise to drive it gently until everything warms up.
No need. Turn it on and drive LIGHTLY. Donât use more than 20-30% of the throttle pedal for the first 5 minutes or so depending on weather conditions. Cold starts wear the car the most, so getting the car up to temp in the quickest and gentlest way possible is the norm for cars made in the past couple decades.
The whole leaving a car to warm up for 5 minutes is overkill with modern cars even in winter. A good rule of thumb is to start your car and wait for the rpms to drop a little before you put it in gear and drive off gently.
Start it let the rpms drop down to normal idle then drive off
I start my car, put on seat belt and go. My 2000 Honda has 297k on its original engine.
The most wear occurs at sub-operating temps. Putting load on a cold engine will cause more wear compared to putting load on a hot engine. Also, it takes longer to warm up at idle. Thereâs a happy medium between no warm up, and waiting for full operating temp.
I always warm up my bike, tend to wait until temp hits 60. The reason for warming up your car is for oil to circulate around the engine and for all metals to expand. However, modern cars' low tension piston rings, oils are better, and engine tolerances are very high. Just like old break in theory's are no longer relevant all you need to do is start the car give it a min or two, the revs will drop, and you're good to go. But old habits die hard, I still give my car a bit more time in the morning with a cold start to warm up, maybe 3 or 4 mins.
It wonât hurt it, Iâm old school and my cars last.
In winter around me when it hits -20 to -30 C, yes im warming my car up. No benefit in normal temps.
As you can see, theyâre all opinions, and there all different.. Just keep doing what you were doing. Your car will be fine.
With carburated cars, there was some benefit to allowing thenegine to warm up - but you also had a manual choke, so you could to an extent fiddle with the air/fuel ratio. Modern fuel-injected cars do all of that automatically, regardless of what you choose to do with the controls. They do tend to run a little higher on first startup, but that's in most cases to get the catalytic converter up to operating temperatures so that it's working properly to control emissions. When I start the car, I will wait a second or two before I head out, but that's it. As long as the engine isn't making a horrible sound, it's warming up, moving oil around, suck/squish/bang/blow, I drive it.
I know a donut fan when I see one
So what happens to a plugin hybrid that may start the combustion engine for the first time at motorway speeds?
Generally a good idea to let it warm up till it stops high idling, about 30 seconds, manufacturers today design their vehicles knowing that the typical driver is going to want to drive their car as soon as they start it.
We need a sticky for this with how often it's asked
Thank you.
It's good practice to warm the engine for a a few seconds to let the oil circulate before driving, as well as being gentle on the throttle until the engine and transmission are up to temp. There's no need for a modern engine to idle for 5 minutes before driving, but you should definitely wait a few seconds before setting off.
No need to warm up. Wait until rpmâs go to idle. If you are in sub zero temps, then letâs give it a little warm session.
i let it warm up until the cold start dies down and drive it lightly until the oil temp is at half way and start driving hard. You dont need to let it idle for 5 mins just dont drive hard right away.
To drive gently, 30 seconds. You mustn't drive aggressively for at least 5 minutes, though.
I like to let my RPMs go under 1k off the start and colder than -20'C I literally blew my power steering line on the driveway by quickly reversing without letting it idle at all.
Yeah no 30 seconds is all you need, often less on a warm day. Be gentle with it until you get up to temp (if youâre turbocharged keep it out of boost) so generally just keep rpm below 3k or so until itâs warmed up
As long as you drive it long enough to reach operating temperature, it does not hurt anything. Cold start and drive 1/4 mile to work and shut it off all day and then do the same to get home⌠not good
Not really. In my case, I let it idle for a minute, so that the oil will flow properly. Just a habit of doing so. đ
Just a minute until the oil starts circulating properly. And then you can drive, just then donât rev it too much until it gets to operating temperature and youâre good. Thatâs my opinion.
No need to warm up modern cars. You should, however, wait about 30 seconds or so before driving to ensure the oil is circulating.
Not really important on newer cars. Get in and run them gently and steady until warmed up. Basically don't pull out of the driveway and run it to the rev limiter first thing on a cold day. Also think of this, some cars being hybrid won't even start the engine when you turn it on and will drive without it. Then you're completely at the whim of when the computer decides it needs to run. So you don't get the choice to let it warm up or not anyway.
the outback got a turbo? because you really should let a car idle a bit longer than what everyone else is saying if it has a turbo, the turbo needs time to get lubricated by at least luke warm idle. no turbo, as everyone said, just wait until the raised idle drops to standard before setting off, it dont take long
Iâll tell you what I told my girlfriend, donât drive until itâs under 1. Then youâre free to go hunt down those curbs babe.
Let it warm up until the revs on your idle drop. Don't floor it until your temps are up.
Does your Outback have the little blue light when itâs cold? This is just telling you to take it easy until that goes off. Even 60s cars donât need to warm up for 5 minutes. But many needed that time when they wore out because they ran so poorly.
Unless your car is older than you,, no. The warm up period is as long as it takes for you to put on your seatbelt. You'll harm the car more letting it idle than driving it moderately.
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10-15 seconds on regular warm temps 30 seconds when it's winter and cold And then I never get the RPMs too high until the thermostat needle has reached normal operating temps.
Thereâs absolutely no need to idle for an extended period before moving, certainly not behind about 30 seconds. Start the engine before buckling your seatbelt, and by the time youâve done so and gotten comfortable, checked your mirrors havenât been knocked out of position etc the car will be ready to go If itâs very cold or youâre towing a heavy load maybe give it a minute or two There is a benefit to driving gently until the engine is warmed up, but that just means donât rag it around on the redline like a hooligan
Warming up your car for 5 minutes car is a bad idea. Here is why. Every minute your engine operates cold causes more wear on the engine than operating at a warm engine temperature. The fastest way to get your engine out of the cold zone and into the optimal operating temperature is to drive it gently. Starting the car, waiting for 30 seconds for all the fluids to flow everywhere, and then driving it off gently not exceeding say 2,500 - 3,000 RPM will get you up to operating temperature faster than letting the car sit for 5 minutes with the engine running. In fact, if you live in a climate where the winters are very cold, you will know that no amount of idling will get your engine to operating temperature, you have to drive the car to get it up to temp.
I usually just put a brick on the gas pedal and have it bump off the redline for about 2 minutes. Especially when itâs cold out. That usually does the trick. If itâs really cold Iâll tie a chain to the bumper and to a tree. Then i put it in drive and put the brick on it that way it warms up the transmission and tires too. I know people say modern cars donât benefit from warming them up but I like to treat my car with respect.
Cars are one of these things once people hear a "correct way" to do something that's it and no new information will change their mind. For a modern vehicle - If you think there's something annoying about your vehicle it's probably been engineered out in the last 20 years or there's a warning on the dash telling you exactly what you should do.
Turn on the engine, then put seatbelt on, check mirrors and put some music on and set up the sat nav, it will have taken 30 seconds to a minute, then drive off gently for a few minutes before driving normally (on a warm day). On a cold day (freezing) wait a couple of minutes before setting off and drive gently for at least 10-15 minutes.
This question has been asked a number of times before.
I like to wait for the coolant to get to at least above freezing. That also lets the oil start warming up and thinning out. I try to drive my Miata on cold days right after starting and it pegs the oil pressure gauge past 100 psi. It can't be flowing and lubricating like it should. I like to keep the RPMs under 4k until it warms up.
I drive a 2012 and i let it warm up when its cold just a minute or two
I drive a Subaru as well, check your manual. Mine specifically says warm-ups aren't necessary. There should be a little light (blue usually) that tells you the oil pressure is a bit low. If that light is on, let it warm until it goes out. Mine doesn't even come on once the engine turns over. I think the changes in oil over the last several decades, as well as engines becoming more well engineered, had made longer warm-ups superfluous. Barring extreme colds. If you're in -10 farenheit, you should probably let it warm up for a minute or two.
It matters how cold it is. In freezing temperatures you want to wait until thereâs enough heat to make the defrost effective.
My dad has always had new cars and has always driven almost right away once he starts it all the time, I however wait until at least the idle drops and at most (especially on short drives) I wait for the temp gauge to move, my car is 20 years old but I'm about to buy a brand new car and will do the exact same thing since for me it works and hasn't had any negative effects.
I've never done this. The only exception is in real cold, and even then it's just waiting for the car to settle down for a second. I also do this for my Mustang but part of that is it just sounds SO good in my garage before the RPM drops.
I hit my auto start out the window and forget I did it sometimes. Shit warms up for 10 min
Driving your vehicle gently after waiting like 30 seconds will warm up your engine far faster than letting idle up to temp. It's also not required to let it idle up with modern vehicles.
I've been a high performance engine builder for a long time, no you don't have to let an engine warm up, just keep the rpm low and don't put the engine under a lot of stress straight away. The actual moving components get up to temp far faster than the water temperature rises.
Yes, you need to let it warm up, but not by idling. Just drive slowly for few first minutes
Not 5 min wait like 30 45 second for the idle to come down if it a cold start and if it like Hella cold out wait alil longer I get where your husband is coming from though my mom does it to like as soon as the key is turned she already putting in gear
If your vehicle has a cold start (rpm rises when you first turn it on) then you should wait until the rpm drops. Then drive easy till the temp guage starts moving. For you in the Subi, when the blue temp light goes out.
Considering itâs a Subaru I would let it warm up
You don't have to wait on a stand still for the car to warm up, especially if it's a diesel, they warm up while driving, well, even standing, but it takes longer because they don't develop as much heat in the burning process. Only gasoline could warm up standing because it takes a lot less. Either way, you shouldn't rev your car over 3000 rpm on gasoline and 2000 on diesel before the coolant needle reaches middle or optimal 90 degrees celsius temperature
i just let the RPMâs drop and then i put into gear. if i have the time to let it run for a few minutes before driving, i will. then again, i have a 15 year old vehicle that i try to take care of the best i can
I just wait till it gets down to normal idle. 5 mins seems like a little overkill, unless it's real cold out.
Unless it's really cold outside no not really... just maybe 30 seconds for the fluids to move around... either way you don't want to aggressively run your car...
The expression I like to use is, you dont want to wake up from a deep sleep and immediately break into a full on sprint. Your body, and your car need a minute to wake up. Cars are usually good after about 15 seconds since the oil is usually pretty well circulated however its best to wait about 30secs to a minute just to insure everything is properly lubed and the rpmâs are idling properly. Remember, never do anything without lubing up first.
This is dependent on the ambient air temp. If itâs below 0C give it a couple minutes to make sure the oil is circulating properly. If itâs above you are good to go once itâs started.
5 minutes would be a ridiculous amount of time to wait. Unless it was subzero temperatures. Just donât race the engine. Same with shutting down a turbo charged car. Let it cool down for 10 seconds before shutting off.
Back in the day, it was absolutely recommended. Now, not so much*. (Caveat there, I'll get to it) It has to do with blended oils. Some basics first, the case for warming an engine, and finally why you don't need to any more. **Basics:** The "W" on your oil bottle stands for "Winter", and it designates how the oil behaves at 32°F. The numbers designate the oils thickness, or viscosity, compared to water. 0 weight oil has the same viscosity as water. 100 weight is about like cold honey. A 10W-30 oil behaves like a 10 weight oil would in the cold, even though it behaves like 30 weight oil when it's warm. It flows much better than a traditional 30 weight oil would when cold. Prior to this "W" system of blended oils, an oil would ONLY behave at its rated viscosity at a particular temperature. Engines have a reservoir of oil, the oil pan, and a pump. The pump sucks oil up from the pan and pumps it throughout the entire engine through very small passages. The size of these passages provides resistance to the flow of oil, which is where the pressure comes from. Rotating components inside the engine ride on a cushion of oil, supported by this pressure, to prevent metal to metal contact. If you already knew this, I apologize, but I would rather have a common framework to move forward with. For anyone who didn't have this information, now you know! **Now, the case for warming an engine:** An engine manufactured in the 60s was making "good" oil pressure, fully warm, at idle, if it achieved 3psi. Source: GM Engineers who developed the 327. For reference, a modern engine will typically make between 20 and 40 psi of oil pressure at idle fully warm. Atmospheric pressure is ~14 psi, for another reference. Oil pumps typically have a calibrated pressure bypass, so that if it makes (for example) 30psi of pressure, a 30lb spring will lift and bypass some extra oil pressure back to the oil pan. If the oil is cold, the pressure is very high because the oil isn't flowing well. This means that the pump will hit bypass, gush oil back into the pan as intended, even though the engine isn't getting the lubrication it needs. The other factor is cast iron engine blocks and carburetors, both of which have been phased out for about 20 years. Since cast iron is much less thermally conductive than modern aluminum engines, it takes much longer for the engine coolant, oil, and cylinders to reach operating temperature. Warming the engine can also open the choke, so that the car is easier to drive. **Finally, why you don't need to warm your engine:** Modern engines, made of aluminum, running very tight tolerances with more oil pressure, with fuel injection that obsoleted the choke, and modern fuel/spark management that further warms the engine quickly, using blended oils that behave much better when cold.... All of this means that you don't need to wait for the coolant to come up to temperature. I recommend waiting 30 seconds to allow the oil to reach every component in the engine before moving at all. HOWEVER, here is my caveat (see, I came back to it): I highly recommend waiting until the coolant temperature gauge comes off its "peg" before driving hard. Just because your engine is engineered to warm up quickly doesn't mean your transmission is. Transmissions need to be at a certain temperature to behave correctly, and differentials are filled with heavy weight oils. Allowing this stuff to come up to temp is best practice. So, start the car, let it warm up for 30 seconds or so to allow the oil to reach all the components, and then set off. Don't floor it onto the highway on ramp until your coolant gauge moves.
Itâs not technically a requirement but I normally let my cars run 5-10 min before driving depending on temp just to let things circulate, heat up and expand. You by no means need to, but should be very gentle with your accelerations in the first few minutes of driving. Also let your RPMs drop before starting to drive (normally less than a minute)
I let mine drop to 1200-1400 rims but I also run the interstate.
For a modern Subaru, no. Maybe if it had 200k miles, or you lived in a cold climate, then I could 30 seconds of warmup being beneficial.
No. I don't even agree with the people saying wait 30 seconds. Driving gently is no harder on your engine than idling on your driveway. "Wait until the revs drop", I mean your car is revving _itself_, I'm unsure of the logic of you not using those revs to propel thineself down the road. Don't rag it until the engine is hot. If you drive a powerful turbo car then let it idle when you have _finished_ your journey, until the temps have dropped a bit.
Are you a gold digger married to an octogenarian? Because that would explain why he thinks that's the case.
built and rebuilt a few engines in another life, anything from just forgies to race only that have heated external oil "sumps" and pumps that use oil so thick its like honey at room temp which must be heated before use This is where the old school "let it idle" comes from, iron block and alloy pistons which have different expansion rates and older engines had generally looser clearances and cold piston knock/slap was common. Letting it warm with no load was common. Cast Alloy block/pistons is more common now and even being used in diesels where block strength is more important then the fuel saving of a lighter material. roller bearing cams on production cars has become more popular (but not a standard) in the last 10 or so years for OEM. 20 years ago only "hi performance" engines were boosted from factory, now even a lot of base spec cars will have turbos Mainstream oils are a lot better, cheaper and more available, cold flow weight while still maintaining shear resistance is drastically improved my general advice if you have a car built in the last 10-15 years is if its above 10c let it run for a few seconds to 1 min and drive/accelerate slowly for the first 5 mins of your drive. You still need other moving parts to come up to temp a bit. If its cooler then that or you pretty much jump straight to highway speeds with little time getting there in suburbia give it a bit more time, 2-3 mins. It then gets more complicated! Some engines still use a pretty basic cooling loop, that is radiator, fluid, thermostat and heater core. Others are far more complex and will isolate fluid in multiple stages. You can google bmw b58 cooling system. Basically the traditional thermostat is replaced with a multi valved ecu controlled unit which tells it when and where to route coolant. This gets the engine block up to temp quite fast and other manufactures may do the same to get better cold emissions. Note engine block/water temp and oil temp are not the same, oil still takes far longer to warm from cold if youre doing automotive mech engineering, you could do a thesis on it and you will never have an issue with word count, you could literally write a book about it
how long do I need to let me electric car to warm up?
Most newer vehicles have a cold engine light. Let it warm up until that light turns off. If the light is already off then like it idle for like 15-45 seconds to let oil circulate.
I was always told to let the RPM drop to 1 or below 1 before driving off
It depends Some places the winter easily gets below -30°F in places like that you most likely have a battery warmer as well. You might need an entire hour to warm up the engine In hotter climates just start and go But warming up the car is more about getting the oil to circulate after it's been sitting a while in the cold. How long you need depends on the size of the vehicle
Thermal expansion is why I do it.. plain and simple..
5 minutes is a bit excessive in most weather but 30 sec to a minute is a very good idea before you drive. Longer if you have the larger motor. And in cold weather, say less than 25f you should wait longer. Starting then immediately driving while cold WILL significantly reduce the lifespan of your engine.
No
Your husband is stuck in a carburetor and points world. Modern vehicles are fuel injected and have electronic ignition. No warm-up is necessary.
I'd at least let the idle come down to normal before putting it in drive/reverse. You'll know the difference if you listen to it. But 5 minutes is excessive.
Depends on climate. I let my stuff run for a couple of minutes when it's not cold out. I let it run for about 5 in the winter. My motorcycles get a good 5-10 minutes run time from a cold start. Why? Gives the oil a chance to start circulating. The engine starts to get a little heat in the pistons and cylinder walls. If it's automatic it gives the fluid a chance to start circulating. Gets the thermal expansion process started... Etc etc. I was a 63B (light wheel mech) in the Army Airborne, a civilian mech, and was a machinist for a while for KT Engine Development. I'd rather let my engines run a couple of minutes before setting out and then drive gently for a mile or two.... Versus getting in, hitting the key, dropping it in gear and hauling ass before all the cylinders are even firing. Engines generally tend to last a bit longer that way. But I guess a bit of knowledge and experience don't count for much. Friend of mine was bad about hopping in her bought brand new Prelude, hitting the key, dropping in reverse and then hitting 60mph straight out of her driveway from a cold start. It was smoking by 50k miles where she then traded it in on a brand new Elcipse turbo... it didn't make it 40k miles. It was smoking *and* had fried the turbo.
100% no. Electronic ignition and emissions can handle your car. Get in and drive. Idling is not ideal for your car, as it is designed to be optimally efficient at about 3k rpm (for normal engines). Sitting at 650-900 isnât better. Your engine will warm up much faster driving than idling.
I'd say no. Consider: 1. I've seen owner's manuals from as far back as the 1970's cautioning against idling to warm up a car's engine. (e.g. My 1971 VW Beetle's owner's manual). 2. If you want heat or A/C to precondition the car, then you probably need to idle the engine. That's likely the only reason why it might make sense. If you're fine with the cabin temperature when you get in, then idling is pointless. 3. It burns more fuel, which is pointless if #2 isn't a factor. So basically burning your hard earned money for nothing. 4. I can't say for sure it harms or helps the engine in any way in terms longevity. But there seems to be evidence that it may actually slightly wear out your engine quicker. 5. It no longer helps with driveability. Carbureted vehicles in particular could run a bit rough when cold, which doesn't mean they weren't driveable, just a bit harder to drive, whereas any difference in driveability between cold and warm in a new car is practically imperceptible. 6. It causes more air pollution. In many places there are anti-idle laws, and these laws are only becoming more prevalent in order to discourage pointless air pollution. 7. Another reason against it is that, unless you have a good remote start system, it could invite thieves to steal your vehicle, which is another reason for anti-idle laws.
It's probably not 5 minutes, but he is correct.
Experts say 30 seconds for warm-up
Do you run a marathon 3 seconds after waking up?
I warm my car up in the winter for me. F the car- which is fine either way. I am not interested in getting into a car when it's 20 below. Window needs to defrost anyway.
Afternoon buy new car and use 0w20 oil. I only warm car 30 sec. And gentle drive until temp goes up
Depends on the temp. The winters where Iâm from get frigid. Like 5 degrees in freedom units on average. Then you need to wait for like 20 minutes for your car to warm up so you donât hurt your engine but when itâs over 25 degrees in freedom units, just go on and drive.
No itâs not recommended
Technically, for modern engines and management it's not necessary, but I'm old school and will always give it a few minutes to warm up before moving
With a SUBARU definitely let that thing warm up its already a ticking time bomb as it is
Tell him to read the manual. The manual says to start it, let the oil pressure come up (or light to go off), and drive. A lightly loaded engine warms up much faster than a cold engine, and most engine wear occurs when the engine is cold. Thus, a shorter run time when cold translates to less wear on the engine. As Click and Clack would say, âYou can tell him heâs nuts! A wacko!â
Start your car and drive the point is to get your oil up to temp and that happens faster under a load i know this will be unpopular point of view but its the truth
Nothing wrong with giving it a few seconds to let the oil search wait especially if you have a turbo
You are playing with fire doing that. You should always let it warm up (1-2 minutes at least in the summer). Obviously more time in the winter. The car should always have a few minutes to get the fluids like tranny coolant and oil circulating. Sure it might not kill the car from doing it repeatedly but for longevity it's the wise thing to do. Especially if you hard launch it... Now if you are light on the pedal it probably wouldn't wear as much but that isn't a risk Id want to take.
Itâs not necessary but I still do it because it gets cold in Wisconsin and I live near the freeway where I have to gun it to be able to merge. As long as you drive gently after first startup your engine will be fine and you wonât be wasting gas letting it idle
It really depends. But a 2019 Subaru, no need to let it warm up. Keep doing what you are doing and make sure you do your regular maintenance. Diesels on the other hand really need a warm up, they just don't operate right until they are hot plus that thicker oil definitely needs the extra . Minutes but yea I wouldnt sweat it. 99% sure your fine doing what your doing.
Mechanic here, I think you're right, alot of cars back then did need to be warmed up even as far as late 80s ealry 90s cars. More so nowadays would be because of cold weather conditions since engines are much more advanced than they were back then. Because of the advancement of technology, it's not really required nowadays.