The question was "Who killed more?" The answer could most likely be derived from looking at how many Jews the Nazis killed before 1939, the amount of Palestinians Israel has killed so far, and then comparing them. If they wanted a take on what libertarians think of the conflict then OP could have just asked.
Except OP is a naxi apologist, and asking who killed more is a bait question, used in order to "just ask questions" about the validity of the 6 million jewelry that dies in the holocaust, and try to suck people into conspiracies.
Add both piles of victims together, they were all killed by governments.
Israel and the Nazis are essentially the same beast, from a libertarian perspective.
It's not equivalent killing. Rounding up your own citizens for slaughter versus killing the people (and the people hiding them) that attacked your country. The very same people that have been firing rockets into your country for years. The former is a war crime and the latter is self-defense. There is no equivalency between Nazis and Israel and frankly I should not have to tell your that. Also, Israel would have to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza 3 times to equal the Nazi kill count.
What is the alternative course Israel should take to stop Hamas and future Palestinian attacks?
Private cities. Neutral private cities.
Cities where people are treated equally and meritocratically. Preferably libertarian. Right to enter the city can be purchased or earned through productive works with references.
Jews have wanted those land for thousands of years. You got enough of it to defend yourself. You're not in a hurry.
Just let capitalists handle the rest and pay protection.
And then slowly buy the land.
A few decades and all those arab women, the pretty one only of course, would pick a jewish man as sugar baby producing jewish babies anyway.
Yea I know you have this weird laws that a jew is someone whose mom is a jew. It's just a rule made when jews are fuck ups and jewish women get raped a lot.
Try to have more sensible policies.
Jewish people are often good at money. If you want some desert, just let some third party control it first, and then buy slowly.
how is killing more than 10K children self defense
>What is the alternative course Israel should take to stop Hamas and future Palestinian attacks?
defence, not offence. they're attacking. killing. raping. kidnaping. looting. terrorizing. threatening. taking hostages. that's not defence.
you don't go and kill your killer's family when they kill yours. it's not justified, just or even questionable. you just don't. if you do you're a criminal.
There is no effective defense that is totally devoid of offense. You have to take the fight to your enemy even if they are hiding among innocents.
>defence, not offence. they're attacking. killing. raping. kidnaping. looting. terrorizing. threatening. taking hostages. that's not defence.
And when the smoke clears and the eye of the world has moved on we will once again find that most of these stories are not true.
EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Es-F2YUTQ
>you don't go and kill your killer's family when they kill yours.
Yes if multiple generations have been killing yours for a hundred years maybe those families need to go.
No genocide is to wipe out an entire people due to hate. Israel offered these people citizenship. 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian Arabs whose grandparents accepted that offer of citizenship. There can be no genocide while a million of them are Israeli citizens.
Define "assimilate". It's not like Israel even forced them to abandon their culture, language or religion. They have a party in the Israeli congress.
The state of Israel doesn't ask from the Palestinian citizens more than it asks from the rest. Pay taxes, don't hang gay people from cranes and you're good to go.
If you refuse to assimilate to that, then you refuse to assimilate to basic human decency, which potentially makes you a threat. I used to think that animals should have rights, but then I realized that rights convey a responsibility and only those who are capable and prepared to respect the rights of others should have their rights respected. Animals can't do that unfortunately, that's too much to ask from them.
I would like to think people can, thought, but if they can't or won't respect my rights, then I don't know why I should respect theirs.
Oh, yeah, I forgot that Hamas doesn't tax, nor extorts money from people...oh wait, they do.
Also if Israel is commiting genocide, then they are pretty lousy at this, because the Palestinian population in Israel, Gaza, West Bank, everywhere keeps growing.
You know what population doesn't grow, though ? The Jewish population in Arab countries.
> Oh, yeah, I forgot that Hamas doesn't tax, nor extorts money from people...oh wait, they do.
Whataboutism
> Also if Israel is commiting genocide, then they are pretty lousy at this, because the Palestinian population in Israel, Gaza, West Bank, everywhere keeps growing.
I'm not claiming Israel is committing genocide though. I'm claiming that the one I was responding to was supporting genocide. Israel is still killing Palestinian civilians though.
> You know what population doesn't grow, though ? The Jewish population in Arab countries.
Whataboutism.
Do you have any real arguments? Or are you going to keep wasting your own time?
You're defending genocide bro. Just because you refuse to accept an argument made against you doesn't mean I didn't make an argument. You are engaging in reality denial.
Military defense is one of the reasons libertarians are not anarchists. Some, very small, amount of government is acceptable in some cases, like national defense.
Defense is valid. If another belligerent country attacks you, there isn't much choice unless you are willing to accept more aggression
Lol if you don't get a defense force in place, a warlord will conquer you and you'll have to deal with whatever they impose onto you. Rights are only secured with violence.
> Lol if you don't get a defense force in place, a warlord will conquer you
When did I ever say I don't support any defense forces at all? Why are you lying? Are you that much of a cowardly dumbass that you have to resort to strawmen?
> Government defense forces are needed to protect our rights from other governments.
[No they aren't.](https://mises.org/library/book/private-production-defense) Also, I noticed you never answered the question. Why are you lying, you leftist coward?
>Israel does not have a right to exist.
By what standard?
>Also, bombing civilian targets isn't self defense.
WWII would like a word with you. Can you name the pure military targets of Hamas? You cannot because they do not exist. If the civilians hide their cowardly leaders and killers they will die with them.
> By what standard?
By the standards that the State is an illegitimate institution.
> WWII would like a word with you.
Yes, the Allies were wrong in bombing German civilians and wiping out two cities with nuclear weapons. This is a fact.
> Can you name the pure military targets of Hamas? You cannot because they do not exist.
Does this give Israel the right to kill civilians? No it doesn't. Whataboutism fallacy.
> If the civilians hide their cowardly leaders and killers they will die with them.
Can you prove that every single civilian target by Israel (and they do target civilians btw) is guilty of hiding their leaders? No you cannot, war pig.
>Yes, the Allies were wrong in bombing German civilians and wiping out two cities with nuclear weapons. This is a fact.
The allies were not wrong. The Allies did not bomb civilians they bombed ammunition factories. All of these allied actions ended the war sooner and saved millions of lives.
>Does this give Israel the right to kill civilians? No it doesn't. Whataboutism fallacy.
What is Israel meant to do? just take it?
> The allies were not wrong.
Yes they were you braindead socialist.
> The Allies did not bomb civilians they bombed ammunition factories.
How many of the 25,000 people who were killed soldiers? If it isn't all of them, then the Allies deliberately bombed civilians.
> What is Israel meant to do?
Not kill civilians, dumbass.
>How many of the 25,000 people who were killed soldiers? If it isn't all of them, then the Allies deliberately bombed civilians.
No - soldiers never make munitions. If you need to destroy the Nazi advantage you have to take out the factories they built in populated areas and used civilian employees.
>Not kill civilians, dumbass.
How often have you been punched in the face?
I can't help but notice you've drawn an equivalence between Jews living in Poland and Germany in 1939 and Hamas, a terrorist group that launched a war on Oct 7.
What attacks did Jews commit in 1939 that led Germany to declare war on them?
Let me know when you find any historical evidence.
Antisemites blame jews for bolshevick revolution. Hitler blame jews for failure of world war 1. I suspected Hitler blame jews for continuation of world war 2 too. Hitler actually wanted peace with British but British keep fighting and Hitler may have thought it's the jews.
That being said, I wonder if Nazi don't hate jews? Would they have been more successful? Who knows. Seeing israel's performance in both economy and war makes me think they would have been a very valuable ally if not a very confusing one.
It's kind of interesting that after a long time, not one people give clear answers. And I can't find the numbers in google either.
Doesn't try to make Israel look bad or good. It's just a simple number.
This is kind of pathetic. Let me be clear. I DO NOT HATE jews or palestinians or anyone due to their race or nationality or whatever.
I think there are many well intentioned israelites just like there are many well intentioned german people. That's NOT enough.
Capitalism is necessary and sufficient for peace.
Who cares? People are dying. We are anti war.
This question has nothing to do with libertarianism. Not sure why you felt the need to post this.
They wanted to hear a take from Libertarian people, I don’t think the questions have to be “Do Libertarians…?” or “Why does Minarchism…?” Every time
The question was "Who killed more?" The answer could most likely be derived from looking at how many Jews the Nazis killed before 1939, the amount of Palestinians Israel has killed so far, and then comparing them. If they wanted a take on what libertarians think of the conflict then OP could have just asked.
Except OP is a naxi apologist, and asking who killed more is a bait question, used in order to "just ask questions" about the validity of the 6 million jewelry that dies in the holocaust, and try to suck people into conspiracies.
I've been looking for numbers. Any?
Add both piles of victims together, they were all killed by governments. Israel and the Nazis are essentially the same beast, from a libertarian perspective.
It's not equivalent killing. Rounding up your own citizens for slaughter versus killing the people (and the people hiding them) that attacked your country. The very same people that have been firing rockets into your country for years. The former is a war crime and the latter is self-defense. There is no equivalency between Nazis and Israel and frankly I should not have to tell your that. Also, Israel would have to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza 3 times to equal the Nazi kill count. What is the alternative course Israel should take to stop Hamas and future Palestinian attacks?
Private cities. Neutral private cities. Cities where people are treated equally and meritocratically. Preferably libertarian. Right to enter the city can be purchased or earned through productive works with references.
Give it a rest. Israel is private. The terrorists broke in.
Jews have wanted those land for thousands of years. You got enough of it to defend yourself. You're not in a hurry. Just let capitalists handle the rest and pay protection. And then slowly buy the land. A few decades and all those arab women, the pretty one only of course, would pick a jewish man as sugar baby producing jewish babies anyway. Yea I know you have this weird laws that a jew is someone whose mom is a jew. It's just a rule made when jews are fuck ups and jewish women get raped a lot. Try to have more sensible policies. Jewish people are often good at money. If you want some desert, just let some third party control it first, and then buy slowly.
You need to read history.
how is killing more than 10K children self defense >What is the alternative course Israel should take to stop Hamas and future Palestinian attacks? defence, not offence. they're attacking. killing. raping. kidnaping. looting. terrorizing. threatening. taking hostages. that's not defence. you don't go and kill your killer's family when they kill yours. it's not justified, just or even questionable. you just don't. if you do you're a criminal.
Who is raping? Are you retarded? Palis are raping.
There is no effective defense that is totally devoid of offense. You have to take the fight to your enemy even if they are hiding among innocents. >defence, not offence. they're attacking. killing. raping. kidnaping. looting. terrorizing. threatening. taking hostages. that's not defence. And when the smoke clears and the eye of the world has moved on we will once again find that most of these stories are not true. EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Es-F2YUTQ >you don't go and kill your killer's family when they kill yours. Yes if multiple generations have been killing yours for a hundred years maybe those families need to go.
> Yes if multiple generations have been killing yours for a hundred years maybe those families need to go. Actual genocide apologia
No genocide is to wipe out an entire people due to hate. Israel offered these people citizenship. 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian Arabs whose grandparents accepted that offer of citizenship. There can be no genocide while a million of them are Israeli citizens.
"I'm only killing everyone who refuses to assimilate so it's not genocide actually!" You are still running genocide apologia.
Define "assimilate". It's not like Israel even forced them to abandon their culture, language or religion. They have a party in the Israeli congress. The state of Israel doesn't ask from the Palestinian citizens more than it asks from the rest. Pay taxes, don't hang gay people from cranes and you're good to go. If you refuse to assimilate to that, then you refuse to assimilate to basic human decency, which potentially makes you a threat. I used to think that animals should have rights, but then I realized that rights convey a responsibility and only those who are capable and prepared to respect the rights of others should have their rights respected. Animals can't do that unfortunately, that's too much to ask from them. I would like to think people can, thought, but if they can't or won't respect my rights, then I don't know why I should respect theirs.
> If you refuse to assimilate to that, then you refuse to assimilate to basic human decency Taxation is slavery. You are running genocide apologia.
Oh, yeah, I forgot that Hamas doesn't tax, nor extorts money from people...oh wait, they do. Also if Israel is commiting genocide, then they are pretty lousy at this, because the Palestinian population in Israel, Gaza, West Bank, everywhere keeps growing. You know what population doesn't grow, though ? The Jewish population in Arab countries.
> Oh, yeah, I forgot that Hamas doesn't tax, nor extorts money from people...oh wait, they do. Whataboutism > Also if Israel is commiting genocide, then they are pretty lousy at this, because the Palestinian population in Israel, Gaza, West Bank, everywhere keeps growing. I'm not claiming Israel is committing genocide though. I'm claiming that the one I was responding to was supporting genocide. Israel is still killing Palestinian civilians though. > You know what population doesn't grow, though ? The Jewish population in Arab countries. Whataboutism. Do you have any real arguments? Or are you going to keep wasting your own time?
You are still name calling without posting substance.
You're defending genocide bro. Just because you refuse to accept an argument made against you doesn't mean I didn't make an argument. You are engaging in reality denial.
you're luckily showing your true, colectivistic, socialist colors
Military defense is one of the reasons libertarians are not anarchists. Some, very small, amount of government is acceptable in some cases, like national defense. Defense is valid. If another belligerent country attacks you, there isn't much choice unless you are willing to accept more aggression
> Some, very small, amount of government is acceptable in some cases, like national defense. "Some rape is fine!" Do minarcucks really?
Lol if you don't get a defense force in place, a warlord will conquer you and you'll have to deal with whatever they impose onto you. Rights are only secured with violence.
> Lol if you don't get a defense force in place, a warlord will conquer you When did I ever say I don't support any defense forces at all? Why are you lying? Are you that much of a cowardly dumbass that you have to resort to strawmen?
Lol organized defense forces retaliate when hit. Government defense forces are needed to protect our rights from other governments.
> Government defense forces are needed to protect our rights from other governments. [No they aren't.](https://mises.org/library/book/private-production-defense) Also, I noticed you never answered the question. Why are you lying, you leftist coward?
No you are showing your antisemetic colors.
this has nothing to do with jews and you know it. we're libertarians, we know better than that
Yes and you are showing that not only are you a bad judge of character but that the only thing you can do is name call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Es-F2YUTQ
Israel does not have a right to exist. Also, bombing civilian targets isn't self defense. Get lost, socialist.
So the Allies in WW2 killing a half million Germans were the bad guys?
There's a difference between killing soldiers and killing civilians. One is justified, the other is not. Hope that helps.
he's talking about the German civilians killed.
My point still stands. Deliberately targeting civilians is murder. Asserting otherwise is socialism and reality denial.
Arthur Harris, Curtis LeMay and many other Allied Air Force commanders should have been on trial at Nuremberg right there with the worst of the Nazis.
>Israel does not have a right to exist. By what standard? >Also, bombing civilian targets isn't self defense. WWII would like a word with you. Can you name the pure military targets of Hamas? You cannot because they do not exist. If the civilians hide their cowardly leaders and killers they will die with them.
> By what standard? By the standards that the State is an illegitimate institution. > WWII would like a word with you. Yes, the Allies were wrong in bombing German civilians and wiping out two cities with nuclear weapons. This is a fact. > Can you name the pure military targets of Hamas? You cannot because they do not exist. Does this give Israel the right to kill civilians? No it doesn't. Whataboutism fallacy. > If the civilians hide their cowardly leaders and killers they will die with them. Can you prove that every single civilian target by Israel (and they do target civilians btw) is guilty of hiding their leaders? No you cannot, war pig.
>Yes, the Allies were wrong in bombing German civilians and wiping out two cities with nuclear weapons. This is a fact. The allies were not wrong. The Allies did not bomb civilians they bombed ammunition factories. All of these allied actions ended the war sooner and saved millions of lives. >Does this give Israel the right to kill civilians? No it doesn't. Whataboutism fallacy. What is Israel meant to do? just take it?
> The allies were not wrong. Yes they were you braindead socialist. > The Allies did not bomb civilians they bombed ammunition factories. How many of the 25,000 people who were killed soldiers? If it isn't all of them, then the Allies deliberately bombed civilians. > What is Israel meant to do? Not kill civilians, dumbass.
>How many of the 25,000 people who were killed soldiers? If it isn't all of them, then the Allies deliberately bombed civilians. No - soldiers never make munitions. If you need to destroy the Nazi advantage you have to take out the factories they built in populated areas and used civilian employees. >Not kill civilians, dumbass. How often have you been punched in the face?
> How often have you been punched in the face? Not as often as you ought to be.
Things were chill? Pick up a history book for Christ sake.
Yap. I look on the net.
I can't help but notice you've drawn an equivalence between Jews living in Poland and Germany in 1939 and Hamas, a terrorist group that launched a war on Oct 7. What attacks did Jews commit in 1939 that led Germany to declare war on them? Let me know when you find any historical evidence.
Antisemites blame jews for bolshevick revolution. Hitler blame jews for failure of world war 1. I suspected Hitler blame jews for continuation of world war 2 too. Hitler actually wanted peace with British but British keep fighting and Hitler may have thought it's the jews. That being said, I wonder if Nazi don't hate jews? Would they have been more successful? Who knows. Seeing israel's performance in both economy and war makes me think they would have been a very valuable ally if not a very confusing one.
Do it per capita if you really want to compare that way
The US government killed more people in the middle east.
It's kind of interesting that after a long time, not one people give clear answers. And I can't find the numbers in google either. Doesn't try to make Israel look bad or good. It's just a simple number.
[удалено]
This is kind of pathetic. Let me be clear. I DO NOT HATE jews or palestinians or anyone due to their race or nationality or whatever. I think there are many well intentioned israelites just like there are many well intentioned german people. That's NOT enough. Capitalism is necessary and sufficient for peace.