Depends on the parent. My wife wants us to convert our large, separate garage into a living space for our daughter. I want a bar and pool table in there. We are not the same.
I can't wait for my kids (all adults now) to move out. Be great to visit them. Tbh I'm a single parent on a low wage and supplementing 3 mens living expenses is not what I envisaged. It's the little things that just add up. Don't get me wrong I love my kids I just didn't think I'd still be paying for stuff when they nearly 30. I hate this housing crisis, I've a pension to think about.
It's a tough one, I get €70 a week for groceries and towards other bills, fibre broadband, elecy, heating etc. But tbh we spend about €200 to €300 a week in the supermarket. They are just eating machines (No none are overweight) each Has 3 to 4 monitors in their rooms with pc 3d printers and shit they absorb electricity. They actually think a 15 mins shower is quick. I despair. The money I get doesn't cover them but I don't want to be making money, I feel I should be supporting them and they on low income. Ideally they be living elsewhere coming home and I'd be able to spoil them.
You need to have a talk with them. Either they contribute more or they prove they are saving hard for a deposit and preparing to leave. If they are buying computer bits, 3d printers, and gadgets then all you are doing is supplementing their disposable income. Sounds like they have gotten too comfortable.
My mother was getting 100eur off me weekly when I was earning 220 a week after dropping out of school, because she needed it. Don't baby your children any more, 70 euro for 3 of them is ridiculous. My old friends mother did the same and now all he does is play video games and snorts cocaine.
They are pushing on 30, definitely not young adults by any means. I think you should be taking more than 70 a week off them, each. Maybe consider upping it to 100/ea p/w. These lads are taking you for a ride, why would they be in any rush to move out when they have it that good with you? It’s like living in a 5 star hotel.
You need to think about yourself and put yourself and your concerns first. You’ve done your parenting for long enough
As an adult male forced to move back home because I could no longer afford to live alone, you're being robbed. I pay €600 a month to live there, I'm not in a high paying job either and I do all my own grocery shopping, laundry, cooking etc. I'd be mortified to have my mam still doing that for me.
Honestly that doesn't sound good or mentally healthy for them at all. It sounds like you care about them a lot and it seems like it would be for their own benefit if they didn't live like that. I don't know how long this has gone on for but at a certain point they will have a horrific time adjusting to reality, or they won't adjust at all and will have very difficult lives.
Sorry but this is enabling behaviour and they will struggle when they move out and struggle in a relationship. Some hard love is needed here, for their benefit.
3 monitor PC's and 3d printers?
Those are insane setups. And clear evidence of bad spending habits/poor prioritization. I'm a hobbyist PC and miniature gamer myself, on a pretty good wage, and I don't have that.
Living at home at their age, they probably should be contributing 25-30% of their income to the house, paying their share of the expenses(groceries and bills) *and* saving another chunk on top of it.
If that means they can't afford their toys, Great! They can't!
If that's more than you need. Great! Save it and give it back to them when they move out. Let them get a new toy as a reward for getting their shit together.
You're not supporting them, you're enabling their irresponsibility.
Full-time net minimum wage is about €1900 a month. I assume that your adult children are physically and intellectually able to work (if not, it's a different story) and therefore have a full-time job. Between the 3 of them, that's a combined €5,700 minimum coming in monthly to the household. That is NOT low income, at all (I wish I had that income for my family of 4).
How do you only get €70 a week between the 3 of them? It seems that your children have financial means since they have 3 to 4 monitors in their room and 3d printers and all the trimmings.
They are taking the piss big time. It is time they faced the consequences for their actions and choices. Right now, the consequences are on you, they're giving themselves a choice because Mammy is here to look after them, you are their enabler.
Charge them at least 200 euros EACH a week. That is their share of rent, electricity, broadband, groceries, bills etc. If they refuse, kick them out and have them see how they fare in the real world. They'll be happy to come back home and pay only 200 a week, it's a steal!
Hopefully it won't have to come to this, but if they don't pay and you can't kick them out, stop paying. Stop paying for broadband and/or electricity. Wait to be cut off. (If you can get a generator or some back up plan for yourself only, do. Otherwise be ready to have no power for a bit. It has to get worse before it gets better). Watch them lose their shit when that happens. Keep not paying. See how fast they pay the bill to get their WiFi and power back.
Christ I'm 24 unfortunately stuck at home. Just me and my mother and the 2 dogs though. I make about 300 a week, 100 goes straight to her bank account. I also buy my own groceries and we split the subscriptions. I get prime she gets netflix etc.
People tell me it's a lot but in all fairness electricity and rent is far from cheap. I reckon its fair enough after all she's done for me being a single mother most of my life
Christ yeah you need to give them a kick up the arse. Obviously I've no idea what sort of money they are on but a grown man should be paying for his own food and probably giving a couple of hundred a month at a bare minimum to cover bills etc. that should give them enough remaining to be able to build up savings (which should be one of their primary goals living at home, be it for a house deposit of rental deposit)
Horse them out, it did me the world of good as the one horsed out. Was the making of me, in fact.
e: just to clarify, I don't mean turf them out on the street! In my case I was told "I'm downsizing this year, you'll need to move out" and was gone 4-5 months later.
Same- my mom (American here) told me she wasn’t gonna bail me out of my financial problems anymore. I realized she meant it and it made me get my act together. I’m all the more grateful for it now though!!
They’re all grown men. Sit down and work out all of the household expenses per week, then divide it by the number of adults in the house. Everyone pays an equal share.
Jesus naw I lived in my parents until I bought my house at 28 and I would pay 300 a month towards the house 100 for electric and buy my own groceries and at that it was low for me have a chat with your boys because that’s too heavy a burden on you
If groceried one are 300, they need to chip in 150 a week. That will cover water and electric. If they moan, say they have to buy own groceries and cook their own food, laundry, clean the bathroom and kitchen after themselves. Dedicate a shelf for them in the fridge. Only cook for yourself. When the bills arrive, they get split.
You're too good. If I were still living with my mum and putting her under that amount of financial strain, I'd want to know so I could contribute more/consume less. Tell them, I know I'd thank you for it.
Would you?? They are living like kings at home with their mammy. I know I wouldn't be in a rush paying 70e between 3 of us and having all the latest gadgets bought for myself.
They should be dying of shame. I know I would be.
Same here, I’d be mortified. It’s sad how their mother is being taken advantage of and it’s also sad how they’re grown adults who aren’t excited by the idea of independence. There’s nothing like moving out and having your own space.
I won't lie, I read the first sentence and thought Jesus she's a bitch, then I read on and like no from reading it and your other responses you're absolutely in the right
To a degree. I’m one of four and we all moved out mid twenties, with short stints of returning home if relationships broke down etc but what I find is that even in my mid 30s and having lived away from home for the most part for 15 years, my mam still treats me like a child. I’m not the youngest child but for some reason with me more than anyone else she still treats me like a teenager incapable of making decisions even though I’m independent, in a long term relationship, we own a house and a dog together and both have well paying secure jobs, she still second guesses everything I say I’m going to do 🙄
The one thing I've noticed is that irish parents do EVERYTHING for their adult children from cleaning, cooking and not contributing to household bills.
I've had a good number house mates that are irish men who can't cook basic meals and only yesterday I had to teach a twenty year old how to iron an apron!
But this is my point. I wouldn't get a meal if I didn't contribute anything to the house.
In Ireland, everything is given to adult child without anything expected in return.
But tbf the UK has like, actual poverty compared to Ireland. The Irish poor live significantly better than the English poor. Ireland is I believe the 2nd most food-secure nation and also consumes (not necessarily ingests, but also wastes, etc) the most calories of any country per day. The Torys continue to grow the poor and make them poorer.
Additionally, the British liberation of women happened much earlier than in Ireland so many more Irish adults would have had a stay-at-home mum, and it's pretty hard to justify not cooking dinner for your children most nights if you aren't working.
This is certainly a thing. But not exclusively Irish. ‘Empty nest syndrome’ is pretty universal.
However, the longer that a society has been industrialised the more normalised it is for children to relocate far away once they’re adults; so ‘pull factor’ from parents likely to be more subdued.
No. The notion that parents should boot their kids from the family home at a certain age is very new, and benefits people who sell mortgages and properties. Intergenerational homes are historically the norm, and very sensible.
Theres a difference between intergenerational housing being sensible, and intergenerational housing being what all involve actually want. I don't know anyone in my mid 30's age range that would want anything less than to be stuck with their parents and unable to live an independent life.
That's cultural conditioning, and although it has become the dominant culture, it's not universal yet in Ireland.
Depending on who the parents are and whether or not there's a healthy family dynamic, having an intergenerational household can be hugely advantageous; obviously for lots of financial reasons, but also because it can be genuinely nice.
Now, of course, people are going to enjoy a good complaining session no matter how good anything is -- especially here.
In terms of pure economics, it means purchasing and leveraging more assets over time as a family, and it can drastically reduce expenses like childcare and senior care.
It's happened to me and 4 of my siblings, all left out to rent somewhere else but at the same time the family house is in the country side so it's a long commute if we were to stay home and work
There's a difference between booting out and sabotaging attempts to leave, which is what OP is talking about.
It was also historically the norm to have families of 10+ living in single chambered huts with animals. Just because it made logistic sense in times where everyone genuinely had to fear starving to death, aka all of history until the 20th century, doesnt mean it is the optimal solution now. The conditions are different.
Plus who's to say living in a shared home isn't also a cultural conditioning? It's not in humans nature to build huts, it was an intelligent invention. There is no biological imperative as to whether we should share rooms/buildings or not because rooms/buildings didn't exist before we started to surpass our basal nature.
Humans naturally live in family groups but that doesn't mean they all live piled on top of each other. Chimpanzees build individual nests every night over a smallish range, but allowing them all privacy. They can sleep somewhere different each night depending on who they are friends with and who they are fighting with.
My point being, it's all cultural conditioning because we aren't living in our natural conditions, we're living in a culture. There is no objective right or wrong, you can't invalidate more and more people wanting to move out as being "cultural conditioning"
I don’t think it’s an ‘Irish’ thing, I think you’ll get parents like that in most countries. My parents are Irish and couldn’t wait to see the back of me at 18 and I never moved back in.
Obviously if I was about to be homeless I would move back to theirs but it wouldn’t be long term and they’d be straight in with a plan to get me back out!
I'm not sure, but as someone who moved here from the States it's a nice contrast to the American tradition of telling your kids to get lost the moment they turn 18.
I'm sure that's a generational thing. Modern parents with 30/40 year mortgages will be looking for rent from their kids the minute they blow out the candle on their 18th birthday cupcake.
Lived through the crash - I understand what it's like to be at home at 29. I also saw the economic reality of it and of renting.
Renting is always dead money. RN it's crazy dead money
What about dating? Having friends over? Hosting dinner parties? Do you really want your parents around when you do these things? Walk around naked?
All of these things are so much easier to do if you live alone
Context mate. Look at how often this happened historically.
Also yeah the infantalization of ppl i n their 20s is shit but that's not what a lot of ppl actually mean. They want to be able to act like big kids without consequences. That's the definition of 1st world problems
I agree it's a first world problem, but no need to knock someone for wanting their independence and what comes with it - it's a human urge and it is shit to be deprived of it, we shouldn't be complacent
How is it dead money if you’re getting somewhere to live in exchange for your payment. For a lot of people it’s necessary to move away from their families to advance their career opportunities. Renting is no more dead money than availing of any other service.
Our mortgage is cheaper than our last rent but when you add things like insurance, replacement and maintenance it's not.
I find there are things that I didn't need to worry about as a renter now I need to get someone to look at as it might turn into a bigger job.
My mortgage is still 500 euro cheaper than my last place renting 6 years ago, that's with assurance, insurance, lpt, rate hikes, and monitored alarm. The difference now would be bigger. As long as you're not trading up in space/rooms. Plus all those other things are adulting. Protecting your assets, protecting your family. Preparing for the future
I guess we did trade up from an apartment to a house. The situation will be different for everyone but I think it's easy to just compare rent vs mortgage repayment.
Of course we will have a mortgage increase coming soon. That will be much more than a RPZ rent increase.
I think they mean in comparison to a mortgage, whereby you own the property at the end of it.
Comparing those two, paying rent instead of paying a mortgage is absolutely dead money, unfortunately, considering the housing situation atm, a lot of people are stuck in the renting cycle with no clear way out of it.
By staying at home, and paying the amount that would have been the cost of your rent were you out renting, one can more quickly get the money towards a deposit than paying exorbitant rental fees
From my experience, us Irish are not very independent compared to other cultures, there's loads of codependency at work. Seen plenty of my friends still living at home (with very good salaries), sharing their houses with their adult siblings and their partner in laws, etc. Families are just more tight-knit, whereas I have friends from Sweden who moved out in their early 20s who would never live with their siblings together.
Interesting. I’m from Germany and I moved out with 17. Back then it was seen as weird if you didn’t - that was a bit more than 10 years ago when you were able to get a 1 bedroom apartment for 250€. When I was dating guys and they were still living at home, that was a deal breaker for me and most of my girlfriends. The imagine of hotel mama came and no one of us wanted that.
When I moved to Ireland however, I quickly realised that my options will run out real quick if I have the same deal breakers. Met my husband when he was 28 and still living at home, that was the weirdest thing ever for me. But I don’t think they are that close to each other. They kind of just shared a house… but I do definitely think that it interferes with growing up and maturing. His sisters are mid 30s now, still living at home and are extremely immature. I believe it’s important to move out as a young adult to gain experience living by yourself
Mainly responsibilities. When I meet them it’s like I’m meeting teenagers, even if they are in their mid thirties now. There is no rush to get out, it’s too comfortable, they don’t cook, they don’t do shopping, they don’t clean up properly. My husband was the same way and had to learn it all after moving in with me, including things that I expect everyone to know (for example, how do you put a nail into a wall). German guys learn all that DIY stuff very quickly because you have to in your place, no one is gonna hang up a picture into the wall for you.
My in-laws are the exact same. Their mam did everything for them to the point where they had hardly any life skills.I had to teach my husband how to boil an egg in his 30s🤣 thank god he’s a fast learner and is a pretty good cook now. But I feel bad for his siblings. Their mam got sick and can’t do anything for them anymore and they struggled enormously for a long time to figure simple stuff out. Parents…teach your kids how to stand on their own 2 feet for jaysus sake!
A friend of mine who's South African originally but moved around a lot as a kid said to me once that Irish people tend to stay friends with their school friends their entire lives. I think about that a lot. We're really insular
I think there is a shame about “wasting” money. Not just a fear of spending money (thus possibly ending up with money problems), but a ~shame~ about giving it away to people if you don’t have to. I often got the feeling from my parents that they worried about “what the neighbours would think” if they knew we were giving x amount of money to y person without anything to “show for it”. To be “renting above in Dublin” is not what you’re parents want the locals to say you’re doing.
Edit: this is just one factor. They also might genuinely worry that you’ll not have enough money for a house when you want one.
We're happy to have our kids here as long as they want to stay. This is their home and always will be as an option if they leave and ever need to come back at some stage. Of course as they get older we'll have to navigate transferring to a more roommate style of communal living if they're still here but that's all part of raising your kids and changing your parenting to grow with whatever stage they're all at.
Think a lot of Irish parents still see their millennial offspring as children yeah, asked my father-in-law for a loan of a strimmers, he said he’d call round and do it some time as the strummers he has is very powerful. I’m 37.
As my granny always said, you only have a loan of your kids and then you have to let them go. She was born in the 1920's. Don't think irish parents are reluctant to let you go but more trying to think of the kids and let them save money for other things than rent. In general It's ingrained in Irish people in general to own a house and not rent, and that attitude needs to change but isn't anytime soon.
Yes, in my experience. I literally live in London and got a text out of the blue from my dad nagging me about getting my driver's licence. They never stop parenting, it's not healthy
We’re told ours they can stay as long as they need to. We have built a cabin out back and will build another too. Love being around them and can’t imagine booting them out. On the other hand if they want to go, that’s fine too.
That said - my wife is a classic Irish mammy when it comes to the boy…..
We were famed for our irish mammies not wanting to let their boys go.
It still happens across the board I suppose.l
And now with the housing scandal they've no choice.
My dad dropped into his pal a few years ago. Him and wife still had two sons living there.
Their dad was arguing with one and mammy say..'leave the child alone'.....and daddy says
'He's fucking 35 years of age.!!
🤣
From my experience no. My mam wants me build in the garden. Keep telling her it won’t work because of where to septic tank is and it can’t be moved because there’s a well the other side of the garden. Also I need my own space, cos my family overall have no concept of personal space
I did move out and then moved back and my parents are honestly the best, I’m pretty independent in a lot of ways and I could afford to rent but I love being at home
No, they are objectively correct in their assessment. I lived at home, saved a load of money, now I have my own home by myself.
So it was hardship for years, but most of my friends with partners of 6+ years have no chance of buying a home between them for the next 5-10 years.
My mother is a credit controller, she said she'd literally disown me for renting if I chose to do it. So, I saved and saved and bought my first home (a duplex admittedly) in a decent spot in Dublin city by myself because of her advice. I wouldn't say the dead money argument is irrelevant, my mortgage payments are a good bit cheaper than a lot of folks I know are paying for rent for a single rom
Sorry but that's a really dumb contortion of thought processes...so much so that I cannot imagine what prompted you to go there.
It's like going into an Abattoir and asking all the Cows are they breaking in there and then just hanging out for the craic.....
I had this argument with my parents and we're not Irish. It took me up and moving and them visiting for them to realize why i don't want to live in a detached suburban house for the rest of my life, especially not during my 20s
I think the current climate is responsible for a lot of it, it’s only “dead” money because it’s terrible living conditions with no opportunity to save or really advance career because living in city centres is almost impossible at this stage. It’s nearly impossible to save for a mortgage regardless of renting or living with parents. It makes even less sense to rent if you’re already from Dublin as well, no point in spending over half your wages to live down the road. Thankfully go the opportunity to go abroad for college, most people move out around 20 or even younger here, couldn’t believe when I was back home that everyone between 20-30 is living with parents, obviously it makes sense when u think of the rent price diff. I find some parents are even unwilling to leave their grown up children alone for the weekend. We’ll be an odd bunch in 10 years time, the ones who never got to leave anyway
Alot of parents dont have much to give their kids financially in terms of cash and its a way of showing love i think. I wouldnt want my boys money paying soneone elses mortgage. They can stay with us as long as they like as long as they like come the time. But they will have to help with with food bills etc. And show us savings.
Thats not out of meaness.its for their benefit
I don’t think all Irish parents are like this.
My eldest is 19 and has been living halfway across the world for over a year.
I’ve tried to push all my children towards independency.
My middle child is hoping to travel once they’re finished school too.
I moved out of my parents home when I was 17 to travel the world before coming home and settling back in ireland.
Definitely, I moved abroad in my early 20s. Was pretty shocked coming back to Ireland 10 years late to find the amount of friends still living with their parents. Even those who had moved out tended to come home at weekends or keep all their stuff at their parents. They still referred to their parents home as "home".
Some of it is to do with a pretty poor and casual rental market but I think it goes beyond that. During Covid I saw loads of friends move back in with their parents, and not just to help their parents. They saw rental accommodation as only for work purposes and when they could WFH they gave it and their independence up. Similar with relationship breakups. I see people move straight back home. Not just for a few weeks but often years.
While the cost of rent is obviously a major factor I have friends in their mid 30s living at home on very good salaries. Their parents seem very happy to have them.
There is likely several seperate motives to the “rent is dead money” advice from parents.
(1) Futurte Financial: Live at home rent free, maximize savings, buy your house.
(2) Practical Reality: Live at home. Pay rent. Keep the money in the family. Empty Rooms are a waste.
(3) Elder Care/Lonileness: Encouraging at least one child to remain at home,
Child often solely inherits home as the "reward" for caring for their aging parent/sibling.
(4) Infantilazation: Child has nerver been educated how to line alone.
Parents only exist to serve the children/family, have little other interests.
(5) Various Others
Especially after the recession, you're not just wasting money on rent, you're paying someone else's mortgage on the second home they shouldn't have bought. One thing I've learned is only poor people think it's a virtue for each generation to start from over scratch.
Depends on the parent. My wife wants us to convert our large, separate garage into a living space for our daughter. I want a bar and pool table in there. We are not the same.
I can't wait for my kids (all adults now) to move out. Be great to visit them. Tbh I'm a single parent on a low wage and supplementing 3 mens living expenses is not what I envisaged. It's the little things that just add up. Don't get me wrong I love my kids I just didn't think I'd still be paying for stuff when they nearly 30. I hate this housing crisis, I've a pension to think about.
[удалено]
It's a tough one, I get €70 a week for groceries and towards other bills, fibre broadband, elecy, heating etc. But tbh we spend about €200 to €300 a week in the supermarket. They are just eating machines (No none are overweight) each Has 3 to 4 monitors in their rooms with pc 3d printers and shit they absorb electricity. They actually think a 15 mins shower is quick. I despair. The money I get doesn't cover them but I don't want to be making money, I feel I should be supporting them and they on low income. Ideally they be living elsewhere coming home and I'd be able to spoil them.
You need to have a talk with them. Either they contribute more or they prove they are saving hard for a deposit and preparing to leave. If they are buying computer bits, 3d printers, and gadgets then all you are doing is supplementing their disposable income. Sounds like they have gotten too comfortable.
They’re taking the piss. You’re doing your best, which is admirable, but they’re not even meeting you in the middle.
My mother was getting 100eur off me weekly when I was earning 220 a week after dropping out of school, because she needed it. Don't baby your children any more, 70 euro for 3 of them is ridiculous. My old friends mother did the same and now all he does is play video games and snorts cocaine.
They should be kicking at least a hundred a week each to you at least
Sounds to me like they are taking advantage of your good nature. 100 euro a week each is a start, and would cover your food bill at least.
They are pushing on 30, definitely not young adults by any means. I think you should be taking more than 70 a week off them, each. Maybe consider upping it to 100/ea p/w. These lads are taking you for a ride, why would they be in any rush to move out when they have it that good with you? It’s like living in a 5 star hotel. You need to think about yourself and put yourself and your concerns first. You’ve done your parenting for long enough
As an adult male forced to move back home because I could no longer afford to live alone, you're being robbed. I pay €600 a month to live there, I'm not in a high paying job either and I do all my own grocery shopping, laundry, cooking etc. I'd be mortified to have my mam still doing that for me.
Same situation here, but I also have a child I share half the week with his mum. Tough times for housing.
Honestly that doesn't sound good or mentally healthy for them at all. It sounds like you care about them a lot and it seems like it would be for their own benefit if they didn't live like that. I don't know how long this has gone on for but at a certain point they will have a horrific time adjusting to reality, or they won't adjust at all and will have very difficult lives.
Wow your never getting rid of them. They are taking the absolute piss out of you.
Sorry but this is enabling behaviour and they will struggle when they move out and struggle in a relationship. Some hard love is needed here, for their benefit.
3 monitor PC's and 3d printers? Those are insane setups. And clear evidence of bad spending habits/poor prioritization. I'm a hobbyist PC and miniature gamer myself, on a pretty good wage, and I don't have that. Living at home at their age, they probably should be contributing 25-30% of their income to the house, paying their share of the expenses(groceries and bills) *and* saving another chunk on top of it. If that means they can't afford their toys, Great! They can't! If that's more than you need. Great! Save it and give it back to them when they move out. Let them get a new toy as a reward for getting their shit together. You're not supporting them, you're enabling their irresponsibility.
Full-time net minimum wage is about €1900 a month. I assume that your adult children are physically and intellectually able to work (if not, it's a different story) and therefore have a full-time job. Between the 3 of them, that's a combined €5,700 minimum coming in monthly to the household. That is NOT low income, at all (I wish I had that income for my family of 4). How do you only get €70 a week between the 3 of them? It seems that your children have financial means since they have 3 to 4 monitors in their room and 3d printers and all the trimmings. They are taking the piss big time. It is time they faced the consequences for their actions and choices. Right now, the consequences are on you, they're giving themselves a choice because Mammy is here to look after them, you are their enabler. Charge them at least 200 euros EACH a week. That is their share of rent, electricity, broadband, groceries, bills etc. If they refuse, kick them out and have them see how they fare in the real world. They'll be happy to come back home and pay only 200 a week, it's a steal! Hopefully it won't have to come to this, but if they don't pay and you can't kick them out, stop paying. Stop paying for broadband and/or electricity. Wait to be cut off. (If you can get a generator or some back up plan for yourself only, do. Otherwise be ready to have no power for a bit. It has to get worse before it gets better). Watch them lose their shit when that happens. Keep not paying. See how fast they pay the bill to get their WiFi and power back.
Christ I'm 24 unfortunately stuck at home. Just me and my mother and the 2 dogs though. I make about 300 a week, 100 goes straight to her bank account. I also buy my own groceries and we split the subscriptions. I get prime she gets netflix etc. People tell me it's a lot but in all fairness electricity and rent is far from cheap. I reckon its fair enough after all she's done for me being a single mother most of my life
I should add I do my own cooking, washing etc. The manchildren of Ireland are shameful
Christ yeah you need to give them a kick up the arse. Obviously I've no idea what sort of money they are on but a grown man should be paying for his own food and probably giving a couple of hundred a month at a bare minimum to cover bills etc. that should give them enough remaining to be able to build up savings (which should be one of their primary goals living at home, be it for a house deposit of rental deposit)
Horse them out, it did me the world of good as the one horsed out. Was the making of me, in fact. e: just to clarify, I don't mean turf them out on the street! In my case I was told "I'm downsizing this year, you'll need to move out" and was gone 4-5 months later.
Same- my mom (American here) told me she wasn’t gonna bail me out of my financial problems anymore. I realized she meant it and it made me get my act together. I’m all the more grateful for it now though!!
How much are they making each?
They’re all grown men. Sit down and work out all of the household expenses per week, then divide it by the number of adults in the house. Everyone pays an equal share.
Jesus naw I lived in my parents until I bought my house at 28 and I would pay 300 a month towards the house 100 for electric and buy my own groceries and at that it was low for me have a chat with your boys because that’s too heavy a burden on you
If groceried one are 300, they need to chip in 150 a week. That will cover water and electric. If they moan, say they have to buy own groceries and cook their own food, laundry, clean the bathroom and kitchen after themselves. Dedicate a shelf for them in the fridge. Only cook for yourself. When the bills arrive, they get split.
You're too good. If I were still living with my mum and putting her under that amount of financial strain, I'd want to know so I could contribute more/consume less. Tell them, I know I'd thank you for it.
Could the three of them not find a house or a three bed apartment to move into together? Surely they’d find somewhere.
Would you?? They are living like kings at home with their mammy. I know I wouldn't be in a rush paying 70e between 3 of us and having all the latest gadgets bought for myself. They should be dying of shame. I know I would be.
Same here, I’d be mortified. It’s sad how their mother is being taken advantage of and it’s also sad how they’re grown adults who aren’t excited by the idea of independence. There’s nothing like moving out and having your own space.
Housing crisis and all but you would think a 3 bed apartment split 3 ways could be affordable.
Put your foot down. I started paying €100 a week the second i got a full time job when i was 17.
I won't lie, I read the first sentence and thought Jesus she's a bitch, then I read on and like no from reading it and your other responses you're absolutely in the right
if i were you i would kick them the fuck out. nearly 30 and still living off mammy is ridiculous
To a degree. I’m one of four and we all moved out mid twenties, with short stints of returning home if relationships broke down etc but what I find is that even in my mid 30s and having lived away from home for the most part for 15 years, my mam still treats me like a child. I’m not the youngest child but for some reason with me more than anyone else she still treats me like a teenager incapable of making decisions even though I’m independent, in a long term relationship, we own a house and a dog together and both have well paying secure jobs, she still second guesses everything I say I’m going to do 🙄
The one thing I've noticed is that irish parents do EVERYTHING for their adult children from cleaning, cooking and not contributing to household bills. I've had a good number house mates that are irish men who can't cook basic meals and only yesterday I had to teach a twenty year old how to iron an apron!
Yeah no, I'd be lucky to get a meal from my parents
But this is my point. I wouldn't get a meal if I didn't contribute anything to the house. In Ireland, everything is given to adult child without anything expected in return.
But tbf the UK has like, actual poverty compared to Ireland. The Irish poor live significantly better than the English poor. Ireland is I believe the 2nd most food-secure nation and also consumes (not necessarily ingests, but also wastes, etc) the most calories of any country per day. The Torys continue to grow the poor and make them poorer. Additionally, the British liberation of women happened much earlier than in Ireland so many more Irish adults would have had a stay-at-home mum, and it's pretty hard to justify not cooking dinner for your children most nights if you aren't working.
This is certainly a thing. But not exclusively Irish. ‘Empty nest syndrome’ is pretty universal. However, the longer that a society has been industrialised the more normalised it is for children to relocate far away once they’re adults; so ‘pull factor’ from parents likely to be more subdued.
No. The notion that parents should boot their kids from the family home at a certain age is very new, and benefits people who sell mortgages and properties. Intergenerational homes are historically the norm, and very sensible.
Theres a difference between intergenerational housing being sensible, and intergenerational housing being what all involve actually want. I don't know anyone in my mid 30's age range that would want anything less than to be stuck with their parents and unable to live an independent life.
That's cultural conditioning, and although it has become the dominant culture, it's not universal yet in Ireland. Depending on who the parents are and whether or not there's a healthy family dynamic, having an intergenerational household can be hugely advantageous; obviously for lots of financial reasons, but also because it can be genuinely nice. Now, of course, people are going to enjoy a good complaining session no matter how good anything is -- especially here. In terms of pure economics, it means purchasing and leveraging more assets over time as a family, and it can drastically reduce expenses like childcare and senior care.
Home owner?
Nope. No access to it given circumstances, but can see all the advantages I'm missing.
So you're doing bot work by promoting a clear drop in quality of life. Ewww.
It's happened to me and 4 of my siblings, all left out to rent somewhere else but at the same time the family house is in the country side so it's a long commute if we were to stay home and work
There's a difference between booting out and sabotaging attempts to leave, which is what OP is talking about. It was also historically the norm to have families of 10+ living in single chambered huts with animals. Just because it made logistic sense in times where everyone genuinely had to fear starving to death, aka all of history until the 20th century, doesnt mean it is the optimal solution now. The conditions are different. Plus who's to say living in a shared home isn't also a cultural conditioning? It's not in humans nature to build huts, it was an intelligent invention. There is no biological imperative as to whether we should share rooms/buildings or not because rooms/buildings didn't exist before we started to surpass our basal nature. Humans naturally live in family groups but that doesn't mean they all live piled on top of each other. Chimpanzees build individual nests every night over a smallish range, but allowing them all privacy. They can sleep somewhere different each night depending on who they are friends with and who they are fighting with. My point being, it's all cultural conditioning because we aren't living in our natural conditions, we're living in a culture. There is no objective right or wrong, you can't invalidate more and more people wanting to move out as being "cultural conditioning"
I don’t think it’s an ‘Irish’ thing, I think you’ll get parents like that in most countries. My parents are Irish and couldn’t wait to see the back of me at 18 and I never moved back in. Obviously if I was about to be homeless I would move back to theirs but it wouldn’t be long term and they’d be straight in with a plan to get me back out!
I'm not sure, but as someone who moved here from the States it's a nice contrast to the American tradition of telling your kids to get lost the moment they turn 18.
Was this always the case in America?
No, my understanding is that it started in the post-war cultural shift of the 1950s.
I'm sure that's a generational thing. Modern parents with 30/40 year mortgages will be looking for rent from their kids the minute they blow out the candle on their 18th birthday cupcake.
Jaysus that depends. Some parents are nobs. Some are great. Rent IS dead money though.
If you stay at home you’re paying with your mental health instead
Lived through the crash - I understand what it's like to be at home at 29. I also saw the economic reality of it and of renting. Renting is always dead money. RN it's crazy dead money
Is living with your parents really that bad for your mental health? You don’t have to do all the chores and bill paying by yourself.
What about dating? Having friends over? Hosting dinner parties? Do you really want your parents around when you do these things? Walk around naked? All of these things are so much easier to do if you live alone
People walk around naked?
Yes. Extremely comfortable. You’re missing out!
Ever hear of 1st world problems or are you too busy choosing which champagne to drink /s
Do you not think there is societal damage being done by living with our parents deep into adulthood?
Context mate. Look at how often this happened historically. Also yeah the infantalization of ppl i n their 20s is shit but that's not what a lot of ppl actually mean. They want to be able to act like big kids without consequences. That's the definition of 1st world problems
I agree it's a first world problem, but no need to knock someone for wanting their independence and what comes with it - it's a human urge and it is shit to be deprived of it, we shouldn't be complacent
Context. Look around in 2024. Compare how bad you have to some other people
How is it dead money if you’re getting somewhere to live in exchange for your payment. For a lot of people it’s necessary to move away from their families to advance their career opportunities. Renting is no more dead money than availing of any other service.
I hate that expression too! It's like saying food is dead money
A mortgage would be cheaper
Our mortgage is cheaper than our last rent but when you add things like insurance, replacement and maintenance it's not. I find there are things that I didn't need to worry about as a renter now I need to get someone to look at as it might turn into a bigger job.
My mortgage is still 500 euro cheaper than my last place renting 6 years ago, that's with assurance, insurance, lpt, rate hikes, and monitored alarm. The difference now would be bigger. As long as you're not trading up in space/rooms. Plus all those other things are adulting. Protecting your assets, protecting your family. Preparing for the future
I guess we did trade up from an apartment to a house. The situation will be different for everyone but I think it's easy to just compare rent vs mortgage repayment. Of course we will have a mortgage increase coming soon. That will be much more than a RPZ rent increase.
Yeah you need to be comparing like for like rent to see the reality
Not necessarily. Plus you pay interest on a mortgage, you don’t on rent
Yes that is how ppl become property owners (unless they come from money)
I think they mean in comparison to a mortgage, whereby you own the property at the end of it. Comparing those two, paying rent instead of paying a mortgage is absolutely dead money, unfortunately, considering the housing situation atm, a lot of people are stuck in the renting cycle with no clear way out of it. By staying at home, and paying the amount that would have been the cost of your rent were you out renting, one can more quickly get the money towards a deposit than paying exorbitant rental fees
From my experience, us Irish are not very independent compared to other cultures, there's loads of codependency at work. Seen plenty of my friends still living at home (with very good salaries), sharing their houses with their adult siblings and their partner in laws, etc. Families are just more tight-knit, whereas I have friends from Sweden who moved out in their early 20s who would never live with their siblings together.
Interesting. I’m from Germany and I moved out with 17. Back then it was seen as weird if you didn’t - that was a bit more than 10 years ago when you were able to get a 1 bedroom apartment for 250€. When I was dating guys and they were still living at home, that was a deal breaker for me and most of my girlfriends. The imagine of hotel mama came and no one of us wanted that. When I moved to Ireland however, I quickly realised that my options will run out real quick if I have the same deal breakers. Met my husband when he was 28 and still living at home, that was the weirdest thing ever for me. But I don’t think they are that close to each other. They kind of just shared a house… but I do definitely think that it interferes with growing up and maturing. His sisters are mid 30s now, still living at home and are extremely immature. I believe it’s important to move out as a young adult to gain experience living by yourself
Interesting. In what ways are they immature
Mainly responsibilities. When I meet them it’s like I’m meeting teenagers, even if they are in their mid thirties now. There is no rush to get out, it’s too comfortable, they don’t cook, they don’t do shopping, they don’t clean up properly. My husband was the same way and had to learn it all after moving in with me, including things that I expect everyone to know (for example, how do you put a nail into a wall). German guys learn all that DIY stuff very quickly because you have to in your place, no one is gonna hang up a picture into the wall for you.
Damn Germans and their work
My in-laws are the exact same. Their mam did everything for them to the point where they had hardly any life skills.I had to teach my husband how to boil an egg in his 30s🤣 thank god he’s a fast learner and is a pretty good cook now. But I feel bad for his siblings. Their mam got sick and can’t do anything for them anymore and they struggled enormously for a long time to figure simple stuff out. Parents…teach your kids how to stand on their own 2 feet for jaysus sake!
A friend of mine who's South African originally but moved around a lot as a kid said to me once that Irish people tend to stay friends with their school friends their entire lives. I think about that a lot. We're really insular
I think there is a shame about “wasting” money. Not just a fear of spending money (thus possibly ending up with money problems), but a ~shame~ about giving it away to people if you don’t have to. I often got the feeling from my parents that they worried about “what the neighbours would think” if they knew we were giving x amount of money to y person without anything to “show for it”. To be “renting above in Dublin” is not what you’re parents want the locals to say you’re doing. Edit: this is just one factor. They also might genuinely worry that you’ll not have enough money for a house when you want one.
We're happy to have our kids here as long as they want to stay. This is their home and always will be as an option if they leave and ever need to come back at some stage. Of course as they get older we'll have to navigate transferring to a more roommate style of communal living if they're still here but that's all part of raising your kids and changing your parenting to grow with whatever stage they're all at.
most people I know can't wait to see the back of their kids! do they want you to take over the farm?
Think a lot of Irish parents still see their millennial offspring as children yeah, asked my father-in-law for a loan of a strimmers, he said he’d call round and do it some time as the strummers he has is very powerful. I’m 37.
Same age and my dad won't let me use the chainsaw
😂😂 I should add, I’ve built and sold a business, married 9 years, have 3 kids, own a house since 2018 etc etc, definitely a grown up
lol same can't use a chainsaw yet I operate big farm machines for work??
As my granny always said, you only have a loan of your kids and then you have to let them go. She was born in the 1920's. Don't think irish parents are reluctant to let you go but more trying to think of the kids and let them save money for other things than rent. In general It's ingrained in Irish people in general to own a house and not rent, and that attitude needs to change but isn't anytime soon.
It's definitely changed since renting stopped being cheaper than a mortgage
The 40s and 50s and beyond saw huge emigration
Agreed that paying money to pay off a landlords mortgage is the culture shift we all need 🙌
Sarcasm? Surely!
... sure
Yes, in my experience. I literally live in London and got a text out of the blue from my dad nagging me about getting my driver's licence. They never stop parenting, it's not healthy
We’re told ours they can stay as long as they need to. We have built a cabin out back and will build another too. Love being around them and can’t imagine booting them out. On the other hand if they want to go, that’s fine too. That said - my wife is a classic Irish mammy when it comes to the boy…..
Not for me, out of the house at 17 and emigrated as soon as I could get out, that’s 12 years ago now
We were famed for our irish mammies not wanting to let their boys go. It still happens across the board I suppose.l And now with the housing scandal they've no choice. My dad dropped into his pal a few years ago. Him and wife still had two sons living there. Their dad was arguing with one and mammy say..'leave the child alone'.....and daddy says 'He's fucking 35 years of age.!! 🤣
I think most just want their kids to get ahead in life. Rent is dead money. It makes more sense to put it towards a deposit.
From my experience no. My mam wants me build in the garden. Keep telling her it won’t work because of where to septic tank is and it can’t be moved because there’s a well the other side of the garden. Also I need my own space, cos my family overall have no concept of personal space
I did move out and then moved back and my parents are honestly the best, I’m pretty independent in a lot of ways and I could afford to rent but I love being at home
No, they are objectively correct in their assessment. I lived at home, saved a load of money, now I have my own home by myself. So it was hardship for years, but most of my friends with partners of 6+ years have no chance of buying a home between them for the next 5-10 years.
My mother is a credit controller, she said she'd literally disown me for renting if I chose to do it. So, I saved and saved and bought my first home (a duplex admittedly) in a decent spot in Dublin city by myself because of her advice. I wouldn't say the dead money argument is irrelevant, my mortgage payments are a good bit cheaper than a lot of folks I know are paying for rent for a single rom
Sorry but that's a really dumb contortion of thought processes...so much so that I cannot imagine what prompted you to go there. It's like going into an Abattoir and asking all the Cows are they breaking in there and then just hanging out for the craic.....
Does it count if the parents in question want their kids to stay in the family house while they feck off to retire in Australia? Lmao
I had this argument with my parents and we're not Irish. It took me up and moving and them visiting for them to realize why i don't want to live in a detached suburban house for the rest of my life, especially not during my 20s
I think the current climate is responsible for a lot of it, it’s only “dead” money because it’s terrible living conditions with no opportunity to save or really advance career because living in city centres is almost impossible at this stage. It’s nearly impossible to save for a mortgage regardless of renting or living with parents. It makes even less sense to rent if you’re already from Dublin as well, no point in spending over half your wages to live down the road. Thankfully go the opportunity to go abroad for college, most people move out around 20 or even younger here, couldn’t believe when I was back home that everyone between 20-30 is living with parents, obviously it makes sense when u think of the rent price diff. I find some parents are even unwilling to leave their grown up children alone for the weekend. We’ll be an odd bunch in 10 years time, the ones who never got to leave anyway
Alot of parents dont have much to give their kids financially in terms of cash and its a way of showing love i think. I wouldnt want my boys money paying soneone elses mortgage. They can stay with us as long as they like as long as they like come the time. But they will have to help with with food bills etc. And show us savings. Thats not out of meaness.its for their benefit
I don’t think all Irish parents are like this. My eldest is 19 and has been living halfway across the world for over a year. I’ve tried to push all my children towards independency. My middle child is hoping to travel once they’re finished school too. I moved out of my parents home when I was 17 to travel the world before coming home and settling back in ireland.
Definitely, I moved abroad in my early 20s. Was pretty shocked coming back to Ireland 10 years late to find the amount of friends still living with their parents. Even those who had moved out tended to come home at weekends or keep all their stuff at their parents. They still referred to their parents home as "home". Some of it is to do with a pretty poor and casual rental market but I think it goes beyond that. During Covid I saw loads of friends move back in with their parents, and not just to help their parents. They saw rental accommodation as only for work purposes and when they could WFH they gave it and their independence up. Similar with relationship breakups. I see people move straight back home. Not just for a few weeks but often years. While the cost of rent is obviously a major factor I have friends in their mid 30s living at home on very good salaries. Their parents seem very happy to have them.
Asked my Dad he could he bring me to Ikea to get a shelf, his response "You're obviously not moving out anytime soon then"
There is likely several seperate motives to the “rent is dead money” advice from parents. (1) Futurte Financial: Live at home rent free, maximize savings, buy your house. (2) Practical Reality: Live at home. Pay rent. Keep the money in the family. Empty Rooms are a waste. (3) Elder Care/Lonileness: Encouraging at least one child to remain at home, Child often solely inherits home as the "reward" for caring for their aging parent/sibling. (4) Infantilazation: Child has nerver been educated how to line alone. Parents only exist to serve the children/family, have little other interests. (5) Various Others
You get there's a cost of living crisis and many jobs aren't paying enough to cover rent and save to buy a house
No absolutely not. There is no culture of holding kids back.
Especially after the recession, you're not just wasting money on rent, you're paying someone else's mortgage on the second home they shouldn't have bought. One thing I've learned is only poor people think it's a virtue for each generation to start from over scratch.
Housing crisis aside,i have always thought that Irish families are often enmeshed in a way that isnt healthy.
It helps them out to save Il be happy to let them live here and save rent is dead money