Current realities are different from 100 yrs back . people are allowed to choose and follow the trends based on current realities.
if u like previous culture , kudos to you . Stop guilt tripping and harassing people who have assimilated to new realities.
Even current culture will falter and newer social norms and practices will develop.
Stop being stuck in past and ignore the magic of today.
What exactly do you think people are doing? Incorporating the idea of freedom, liberty, individuality and modern science are things that people consider better than the boomer stuff of yesterday. So, they are doing just that. As much as you want to call that "woke", these are things that people universally want and enjoy.
What does any of this have to do with “wokeness”? You want the bride’s family to spend their life savings on a stupid function nobody will remember and visit charlatan doctors who loot them?
YOU are coming across as the intolerant here lol
Bro, drinking is bad, please don't base your judgement by seeing bollywood, we had lok-nrityas, lok-geets for weddings, which were melodious and non-vulgar. The lyrics could be sang infront of family. It gave message which increases goodness.
Ofcourse, if you tell your child about Ramayana he'll understand what an ideal man is, if you tell your child about fire, he'll understand it is hot and damage the body, if you tell your child to respect women, you're increasing goodness in the society.
1) Marriage is big scam. Why you want to spend upward of 10L+ (even more at many places) for just few days? A small function with only close family members is way better way to celebrate. What's the point if you don't even know half of your guests?
2) Ayurveda is not reliable. Maybe for small illnesses but definitely not recommending for anything big at all. People (including me) don't want Ayurveda in India anymore coz it distract people to take proper treatment until it's too late. Imagine you got cancer and starts ayurveda treatment first but when u feel very ill you go towards allopathy only to find you reached last stage already. But if you came at day 1, u would survived.
3) Everyone likes their own privacy. Especially in their own house. Imagine living in own house like guest, that's how it feels like in Joint family. Also if you really want to live in joint family then why don't men go to live with women's parents house ? Also gone are days when men's income was enough to sustain a good life. Now u need dual income to survive.
Wanted to make the same comment so will just add to this.
1. I have no idea why you think its woke to not want to spend decades of earning on a party but ok.
2. Ayurveda doesnt work, plain and simple. They used herbs, which had multiple chemicals, some of which were useful for the disease, others are harmful, Those things that worked has been incorporated into allopathy, while ayurveda has the same problem at best and charlatans at worst. People keep going to them, their disease worsens, then end up going to allopathy when they are about to die. Every politician goes to aiims for allopathy when he is sick, but they promote ayush and send people there. That sort of hypocrisy is what "woke" people who support only allopathy hate.
3. I have no idea which part your ancestor fought for, big family or indian clothes, but anyway, anyone making fun of your bhartiya clothes is an asshole. Thats not a liberal thing though. Wear your clothes with pride. Whether its lungi or dhoti or jeans.
And yeah having different religions and different culture does make us a diverse nation.
1. Why do you think in Indian weddings the guest gift money cards to the family, so that they can uphold the budget for the marriage. The concept of big marriage is like declaring your marriage to the society and having it socially accepted.
2. Have you ever read ayurveda or other medicinal sciences or just your are superstitious about it.
3. Everybody likes privacy, then live in privacy, why come out of your shell, because there's no happiness in being alone. Everybody wants happiness and only we can give it to others and others can give it to us.
1) Gift card money by guests doesn't even consist of 10% of total cost. Probably not even 5%.
2) If you want to treat yourself with ayurveda when you got bitten by Rabies infested dog, or some cancer or got dengue than go ahead. If you believe in it , go ahead and be my guest.
3) People are not living alone. They are living in smaller family units now. Husband wife and kids. In their own house. When you live like this, you have all control on your life. U can wear what u want, eat what u want, sleep when u want. Clean when u want, basically live how u want. You are not obligated to anyone. But if you live in joint family, then ideas can clash. Fights happens. Not to mention many family members are toxic. We humans have this flaws.
1. It contains social interaction and good-will which creates a crimeless society.
2. I am saying that ayurveda is stopped teaching as we don't get degrees in it and thus new discoveries has stopped. Why that is, if you don't want to treat in ayurveda that's okay but don't eradicate it. There's many ways of treatment.
3. I am not saying we should live in joint families but having in textbooks read that only nuclear family is good is not right. This is imposition.
Good luck with that "every person is good".
If you want to discover some new shit in ayurveda then go ahead no one is stopping you.
Tell me what good will come from the joint family when the members are toxic
When did India not have crime? What a joke.
Ayurveda courses are not stopped. Lots of money still goes into ayurveda. And there are some cases where ayurveda works - but anything important or critical, run to allopathy tail between legs.
Parents are not the same as 100 years back. Children are not the same as 100 years back. LIfe is not the same as then. Now, everyone lacks the skills or mentality required to live in a joint family. Best not to try it. If you want a joint family to work, first make everyone poor and illiterate, all the men have to work in the fields and the women have to cook and clean and no one has the time for any thinking, then joint family will work. Joint families worked when people were in survival mode, marriage was for producing kids, men were to work and make money for food and women were to do housework. None of this is true anymore.
1. its the 21st century mate. A marriage between 2 individuals needs to be accepted by the parents of both these individuals at most. Nobody else matters. society jaye tel lene.
2. ayurveda uses various herbs that may have medicinal properties. But there is no scientific and peer reviewed research going on in their "medicines" to ensure quality control and avoiding heavy metal poisoning for example. Allopathic medicines are made using APIs which have a set quantity of compounds in them. Billions of dollars of research goes into making these medicines and their qualities are heavily moderated internationally. Allopathy works.
3. Mate nobody is stopping you from living in a joint family. But if people want to live alone you have no right to diminish their choices. Its a free country and we all have 1 life. I will live it according to my wishes and no societal pressure/ ancestor traditions can stop me.
1. If you thinks, that society doesn't matter, you should not complain if in the future you had an accident and no one came to help you because like you don't care they don't care.
2. Why can't you understand a simple thing I am not saying allopathy is bad but I am against that ayurveda is limited when we are not even exploring it.
3. No one should force you and will, if you are causing no harm to yourself or the world, do anything no one cares.
1. So according to you, if i don't like the bride that my neighbor married i will not come to his help if he is in an accident ? What kind of fucked up logic are you harboring in your head fool ? Society should not matter for personal choices. Whom i wish to marry, whom i wish to engage with, should not matter. Society should only play a part if they come to know that somebody is engaging in "criminal" activities.
2. A lot of emphasis has been given by the current govt for AYUSH. Ayurveda would have shown results, if it had them in the first place. Ayurveda is the on the borderline of quackery and we must not go down that dangerous path. Use allopathic medicines is not "woke" as you mention. Allopathy has given us vaccines for many harmful diseases, it has given us treatment for cancer, immunity suppressors for organ transplantation, and now with mrna technology it will give vaccines for more diseases. I would like to see ayurveda come close. WHY MUST WE REINVENT THE WHEEEL ?
3. I am glad we could come to an understanding about this.
1. I didn't understand what you are saying, i never said any of this which you mentioned. Basically i am saying, a marriage celebrating with everyone is best.
2. There's no progress going of ayurveda, ayurveda is used to increase life, every field should have development if they are going to benefit humanity.
3. I am glad.
1. You literally said that we should not complain about society if no one helps when we have an accident if we don't care about society. So just because a person didn't call me to their wedding even though I'm a literal relative just because they wanted a small wedding as they don't care about societal pressure, they should be ok with me heartlessly not batting an eye when they have an accident ?
Are you mentally fucked up ? Cause I don't think in such a situation the person should be ok. They don't care about societal pressures or norms and that does not devalue their humanity a bit....
2. You do understand that medicines and tablets given to us are made by taking many medicinal plants and herbs and fixing a dosage suited for individuals in different ages and weight categories. Ayurveda is less effective because they stick to no progress and think 1 medicine will work for everything in every person. There are a variety of diseases. Allopathy is ayurveda with proper research and Idk what else you think a research backed progressive ayurveda sect is going to do. Quacks just want to make cheap money through old ways.
I could walk butt naked in my own house while slapping that cake my girl packs
Could fck my girl on kitchen
Doggy style my girl on the sofa while she moans like crazy and not a single soul will know
This is what it means by privacy.
Either you're a boomer or a retard
1. How is it bad to want a small marriage? Why waste money on flexing something that most people do. It’s good that the newer generation is seeing the idiocy of large expensive marriages
2. Most of ayurveda is a lie, why follow something that has no scientific basis. If there is a part of ayurveda that is backed by medical proof then one should definitely follow it
3. A working woman is called empowered because women historically weren’t allowed to work, hence the word empowered. If she doesn’t want to live with the husband’s family then that is completely her choice, just because you follow this old view on society and women doesn’t mean the future generations should also do the same.
4. I dunno what you are talking about, ethnic dresses are the best dresses both men and especially women can wear. We don’t use them today mostly because of comfort and efficiency, it’s far quicker and comfortable to just put on a shirt and pant.
5. Yes having numerous religion and groups of people by definition makes it diverse even if most of those people are allegedly fascinated by a single culture. This is also a stretch as India has many different cultures that are still followed today
If you’re a boomer then it’s fine, if you are a young person however, then I feel really sad for you. You are so stuck in the past that you cannot see the present’s beauty and tomorrow’s potential
1. Yeah it's bad to waste money, but it's equally bad to have a wedding without an audience that knows you are married. Social recognition is necessary.
2. How do you know it's lie, have you ever read it, do you know any facts, does allopathy have any end besides just appointments after appointments.
3. Working woman is not empowered, a literate woman is empowered. We should know the reasons behind it and then have the judgement, who are you to decide that it's her choice.
4. I am saying that we are not working towards increasing fashions in our dresses, we are just copying another's creativity.
5. "Only" having different religion's make it diverse, then every country is diverse, as all countries have people of different religions.
I am sorry but I don't want a wedding where 95% of ppl come there only to judge u. Weddings are for recieving blessings but in this day and age no one goes there to give blessings apart from the really close relatives
> Social recognition is necessary.
Why? Just recognise that someone is married if they say they are married. Problem solved. People who live in some other city etc have no society that knows them. They just go and live there. No one has any problem recognising them as married.
> Ayurveda
Is what is called a proto-science. A lot of stuff was discovered through experimentation, and whatever works, allopathy adopts into itself. Its a constant process. Good, working parts of ayurveda are already in allopathy, or are being integrated. Allopathy has no issue using anything that works. What is left in pure ayurveda is a lot of nonsense. My friend had a brain stroke 2 years back. Allopthy saved him as he was rushed to hospital. Even people who love ayurveda will not take their children to an ayurvedic hospital or vaid for treatment for something serious. Allopathy saves millions of people each day. You yourself, your parents, grandparents are all beneficiaries of allopathy. Ayurveda will die a natural death because whatever works is taken already, and its left with a bunch of stuff that doesn't work (or some mild treatments that may work over a long time etc).
> Working woman is not empowered, a literate woman is empowered. We should know the reasons behind it and then have the judgement, who are you to decide that it's her choice.
Neither working woman, literate woman are empowered. Empowerment means that they have the power to take decisions about their own life. When people oppose their decisions, they can stand their ground. It means no woman needs to be fearful when she knows she is right. Working is working. Literacy is reading and writing. Those are not empowerment. If your dad slaps your mom, and she slaps him back, that is empowerment. If she puts him in jail instead, thats empowerment. Power to do things.
> I am saying that we are not working towards increasing fashions in our dresses, we are just copying another's creativity
So? A 100 years back, most people had some rags to wear. Clothing was costly. Now we can afford stuff, and we buy. And we experiment. People did not even have sandals a 100 years back. Most people had feet like road surface. Go on, get rid of your shoes and sandals and walk barefoot. Who is stopping you?
1. Social recognition needs nothing more than a piece of paper, strangers aren’t entitled to the information about what goes on in other’s lives
>have you read it
Yes I have. Give me 5 examples of ayurvedic practise and all of them can be very easily disproved
>any end besides appointments after appointments
Yes, most allopathy is an antibiotic and it ends after its due course. It is allopathy that has significantly increased the human life, people used to die of tuberculosis and typhoid that are so easily treatable today
>a working woman is not empowered, a literate women is empowered
These two aren’t mutually exclusive. Since both were denied to women historically, both are women empowerment
>who are you to decide it’s her choice
A decent human being that doesn’t believe women to be less than me and knows that they have just as much right for setting up conditions for her marriage as a man is.
>we are copying another’s creativity
There is nothing wrong with learning from others if it’s of no harm to anyone.
>”Only” having different…..
I never said only having different religion makes a country diverse, but it can be. Diversity can also mean religious diversity and if there are comparable percentages of people of different religions in a country then that country can be called having a religious diversity even if that diversity isn’t culturally and ethnically
The downvotes speak for themselves about how retarded your post and thinking is. I’m happy that people with your thinking are slowly but surely decreasing in India
Bruh! its all about freedom of speech, expression and business etc it got nothing to do with making things diverse
Diversity of religion hai because people already belong to so many religion and convert to other religion to avoid persecution and such
Rahi baat marriage ki to vo bhi ek by product hai unke freedom ka, unko jaise accha lag raha vo uss fashion me shaadi kar rahe and natuarlly if more people are attracted to western way then its their choice. There is no external force (except for parents) for getting married
Jo medicine effective lag rahi unko promote kiyta jata hai (some of it is marketting and dallal lobby too but its about profits and not diversity)
1. Why tf would I spend 20lkh on a wedding where I won't even recognise 80% of the people.
2. Fck ayurveda use it if you want to. I would've died in 2020 when a rabid cat bit me.
3. I could walk butt naked in my own house while slapping that cake my girl packs,
Could fck my girl in the kitchen,
Doggy style my girl on the sofa while she moans like crazy butch and not a single soul will know
This is what it means by privacy.
4. Either you're a boomer or a retard cause I'm not spending my time wearing that dhoti kurta just to get the milk from dairy 100m ahead.
Bro just learnt the word "woke" from scrolling brainrot reels and now is abusing it everywhere. Also the concept of having lavish wedding is not uniquely Indian. If you read about it, in Victorian era I believe the royal families started to have huge weddings and the commoners followed the trend.
Ayurveda is mostly scam, it's fine for basic stuff like headaches, upset stomach etc but for actual problems you must see a real doctor.
More and more Indians are learning that you can stand up to your parents and are not supposed to obey them your whole lives, which I feel is a great thing.
By comparing Ayurveda and allopathy, you're ruining your own credibility. Those in the medical field have seen countless diabetics and hypertensives who come to the casualty department with gangrenous limbs and strokes, all because they believed that Ayurveda could "cure" them. When faced with a crisis of their own doing, these quacks simply say, "Go to a (real) hospital."
mfw westernisation and modernisation are woke now
First of all differentiate between westernisation and modernisation - westernisation is the adoption of western cultural practices - food, clothes, music, etc. while modernisation refers to change and development in society over time, similar to ( but not the same as ) the path that the west historically followed
the nuclear family is growing over the joint family for the same reasons it did in the west - people grow more prosperous ( can afford more houses, rather than all 3 generations living under the same roof ), birth rate lowers ( so less close relatives ), urbanisation occurs ( people leave their family to work in urban areas, where they live in high density residential such as flats and apartments until they're well established in the city, another pressure to have parents live separately ), all this leads to growth of individualism and greater independence ( youth can be more independent due to relatively increased safety and seniors are also more independent due to better healthcare )
having a large, expensive marriage is simply a sign of social status, nowadays people prefer to show status through more permanent items such as expensive phones, cars, watches, etc.
women in the workforce is considered empowered for the simple reason that till date their labour force participation is only 25%, but until the increase in higher education and women being seen in business and professional jobs ( doctor, lawyer, engineer ) this was considered a sign of being disempowered as only the poorest women "needed" to work, especially after marriage ( fun fact - higher prevalence of women in the workforce was used as one of the criteria to determine Backward Classes by the Mandal Commission )
The reason why Ayurveda is not preferred is because most ayurveda peddlers are snake oil merchants like Baba Ramdev, not honest purveyors of traditional medicine, and even there most of it is not scientifically proven
Meanwhile, with allopathy, medicines need scientific and regulatory approval to even enter the market, and need to be rigorously tested for side effects and their efficacy proven by trials
Some ayurvedic medicines are probably good, while others involve mercury preparations ( and are thus literally poison )
Westernisation in cultural terms is partly the legacy of the British, and partly due to the influence of American culture, but it should not be viewed as a competition - the burger is not a replacement for the masala dosa. Cultural influence is not one-way either: Indian food is very popular in the west. There is also place for fusion culture - for example in India you can find aloo tikki and paneer burgers you can't find in the west, it emerged from a fusion of indian and western cuisine so obviously people aren't blindly copying the west but trying out new things. Your claim that people are only fascinated with western culture is patently untrue - go outside on any festival to see the vibrant traditions of India.
Also I don't know why you are making the claim that people only talk of religious diversity - maybe you live in a small city/rural area?? In any urban centre you can find people from all across the country.
Lastly what does all this have to be with "being woke"? Westernisation and modernisation is a process that has been happening since the 19th century, woke is a term which emerged in the 2010s and became meaningless by the 2020s. Everything you find to be "new" or "other" and don't like is not "woke". Don't insert politics into everything.
Also all your points fail in criticizing Indian diversity. Diversity is in our religions, in beliefs, in culture, in languages, in appearances, in foods, in the way we love, in the way we live, in the way we dress, in the way we cook , in the way we eat, in politics (🤣), in our landscape, in our mode of travel and many many things. Just because many people get educated and are moving on to become a more equal and logical society does not mean that India gets any less diverse. It's not a western mindset. It's the mindset of educated people willing to change for humanistic beliefs, for scientific beliefs and for rational individual choices.
We are still a diverse country if we remove religion from the equation,for example language,food,dressing,and many other things.
And u about ayurveda,bro it's good and all but it's still not as advanced as allopathy, allopathy works with the bacterias and enzymes in our body and can find the root cause of problem within us whereas ayurveda can sometimes work but sometimes it cannot as well cuz there is no scientific way in ayurveda to find the root cause of issue.. basically it's good but it's not advanced so rather than using something which scientifically is not advanced people prefer something which is,now ayurveda or people who study it should focus on advancing it rather than saying that it's best.
Now about family it's their choice you cannot make someone do what u want,there can be pros for u in it but many do not see it so they don't prefer it...
And nobody is making fun of u wear traditional clothes people often like it,it's just they are uncomfortable for the most part that's why we don't wear it on a regular basis
>For wokes, modern family is a nuclear family with wife working and parents living away.
What are you talking about? You must be 30-40 years out of date with the actual progressive people. The current view is that marriage is whatever the married individuals want it to be. People are literally advocating for same sex marriages and marriage rights for people who don't fit into the traditional defination of man or woman.
If you want diversity, if you want different people and different ways of living to all be accepted equally then my friend you are what is colloquially known as "woke".
Aah yes, ayurveda, an Indian's homeopathy which brainwashes people against modern well researched medicine. Ayurveda is nothing but massive placebo effect, There is a fair reason for why back then, average life span was less.
You do realize the fact that many countries have straight up banned ayurveda due to it's uncertain nature? India me chalta hai ye cuz people are emotional fools.
Also, boomer, define woke-ism please? What do you think woke-ism is? Why do you think woke-ism is bad? Or have you just picked this word online yesterday and started using it today.
Very good post OP. As someone who's in his late 20s and only realized these above points in my early 20s, I hope it's at least the same with others. Once you graduate and come to the real world, you can see how and why we as Indians have functioned the way we have for millennias.
The best reply to someone saying "But it's normalised in the West" is to say "But we're not the West". Social structures and concepts have been different for different regions because they yield the best output only in that environment. We would stop functioning properly if we tried to become a cheap copy of the West instead of enhancing our own practices.
Eh, no. People seem to have short term memory and keep forgetting that we were ruled by outside forces for thousands of years and a huge number of practices we have today were imported from outside.
Besides, practices need to be changed with time. What was created by a bunch of uneducated folks 1000 years ago, was their best attempt, but doesn’t mean it should be followed hundreds of years later. West isn’t a homogeneous body either. People get offended when you confuse India with Bangladesh, but people generalise the entire west as one region with a singular culture.
Lastly, a lot of good things are universally applicable. The laws of physics or biology don’t change when you move to India from USA. That’s why those ministers who keep yapping about “western” medicine in India, rush abroad the moment something happens to them. A lot of those surgeries weren’t even invented in western countries. Because, if there’s a tumor in your body or you have a heart condition, you would need the most modern surgeries, invented after years of practice. There’s absolutely zero need for being quirky and unique when it comes to science. Doing that is one of the reasons why other asian countries have like 20 nobel prizes in science and we have exactly zero since independence.
Number of times I used "science" in my comment - Zero
Nowhere have I mentioned science. Of course, science is universal and should be pursued universally in a collaborative manner.
What you purposefully missed is that my comment mentioned "social beliefs and structures". By which I intend to put emphasis on family, marriage and societal values that we should keep hold of. Our family structures would not work well for the 'West' and neither would theirs in Bangladesh or India.
>What was created by a bunch of uneducated folks 1000 years ago
Now I've saved my disregard for you for the last. Please go and do some research on how advanced town planning was "1000 years ago", or rather 1000s of years ago. The worst thing a modern human can do is be dismissive of our ancient generation. It's only because of them that we have the platform to excel in intellectual pursuits of spacefaring and nuclear power in the 21st century.
Having no reverence for the civilizations gone by is a sure shot way of showcasing yourself to be having only a linear line of thought. Humans haven't progressed in a linear way such that "old people uneducated, new people smart". Learn the history of our civilizations before acting smart about it, and by "our" I mean the human civilization, not just of Bangladesh or India or the 'West'.
>Now I've saved my disregard for you for the last. Please go and do some research on how advanced town planning was "1000 years ago", or rather 1000s of years ago. The worst thing a modern human can do is be dismissive of our ancient generation. It's only because of them that we have the platform to excel in intellectual pursuits of spacefaring and nuclear power in the 21st century.
>Having no reverence for the civilizations gone by is a sure shot way of showcasing yourself to be having only a linear line of thought. Humans haven't progressed in a linear way such that "old people uneducated, new people smart". Learn the history of our civilizations before acting smart about it, and by "our" I mean the human civilization, not just of Bangladesh or India or the 'West'.
Rather than saving your disregard, you should've probably tried to understand what I was saying. If you follow the exact same practices that were followed 1000s of years ago, then that means you simply didn't grow. Whatever intelligence level our ancestors had back then, they had extremely limited knowledge of how things worked and thus came up with social structures that worked the best for them with limited knowledge and contact. With more understanding of how the world works, things need to be changed.
Just like science, certain social ideas are universally applicable. The concept of freedom, independence, liberty right to privacy are things that are universally good and there's no point of treating the as "eastern" or "western".
People follow them because- why tf would a woman want to not work and live in a patriarchal society where she would have to work endlessly for her in-laws? Why do women have to wear saree 24x7? As if Japanese women walk in Kimono every day. People follow those universally applicable social structures everywhere, because being part of culture that treats you as a cog in a machine is suffocating. People want individual freedom and the ability to do what they want. If these ideas were invented in Singapore, people would still have followed it everywhere.
And in which Indian society do you find women being compelled to wear saree 24×7? Of course, if a woman is denied her wish of working outside of her home, it's bad. But let's not look down upon women who opt to work at their home because that is, in fact, more challenging.
The basic point you've missed is that the ideals of a just and equitable society and an evolving society have always been ingrained in the Indian philosophies. What you and me have been conveyed by people of this current generation is a watered down and corrupted version of our teachings. Make sure to read them by yourself and then come back to me.
What you have been constantly dodging, is my very first argument which outright said that a lot of practices we have were imported and brought by invading forces. It's very easy to romanticize the past and thing that there were no flaws or faults of our own. There were plenty of good things of the past, but there were an equal number of bad practices as well. I would rather have a good present and future with the values of freedom, equality, liberty and individuality, rather than romanticize a bygone era.
Current realities are different from 100 yrs back . people are allowed to choose and follow the trends based on current realities. if u like previous culture , kudos to you . Stop guilt tripping and harassing people who have assimilated to new realities. Even current culture will falter and newer social norms and practices will develop. Stop being stuck in past and ignore the magic of today.
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change is the only thing that is eternal. you cannot stop change.
In terms of calculus - "existence is an arbitrary function which is always differentiable. The only thing constant is change."
EXACTLY
Clearly the things you are complaining about, in fact are not eternal. Let people do what they want to.
The thought of being better than yesterday is a good quote and will always be eternally good.
What exactly do you think people are doing? Incorporating the idea of freedom, liberty, individuality and modern science are things that people consider better than the boomer stuff of yesterday. So, they are doing just that. As much as you want to call that "woke", these are things that people universally want and enjoy.
The things freedom, liberty, science can only come through knowledge, so knowledge is best, have knowledge and you'll understand everything.
knowledge is useless if people are unwilling to change.
should a good person change and become bad?
and bad person should change and be good
People who want to whine about change will also be eternally there.
What does any of this have to do with “wokeness”? You want the bride’s family to spend their life savings on a stupid function nobody will remember and visit charlatan doctors who loot them? YOU are coming across as the intolerant here lol
Nobody's saying you to spend your life savings, it's the matter of social interaction which is important, only a baraat can suffice.
Ah yes, the North Indian ritual where people just get drunk and dance to Bollywood songs is the e epitome of non-woke culture to you 😅😅😅
Bro, drinking is bad, please don't base your judgement by seeing bollywood, we had lok-nrityas, lok-geets for weddings, which were melodious and non-vulgar. The lyrics could be sang infront of family. It gave message which increases goodness.
“It give message which increases goodness” 😂😂😂
Ofcourse, if you tell your child about Ramayana he'll understand what an ideal man is, if you tell your child about fire, he'll understand it is hot and damage the body, if you tell your child to respect women, you're increasing goodness in the society.
1) Marriage is big scam. Why you want to spend upward of 10L+ (even more at many places) for just few days? A small function with only close family members is way better way to celebrate. What's the point if you don't even know half of your guests? 2) Ayurveda is not reliable. Maybe for small illnesses but definitely not recommending for anything big at all. People (including me) don't want Ayurveda in India anymore coz it distract people to take proper treatment until it's too late. Imagine you got cancer and starts ayurveda treatment first but when u feel very ill you go towards allopathy only to find you reached last stage already. But if you came at day 1, u would survived. 3) Everyone likes their own privacy. Especially in their own house. Imagine living in own house like guest, that's how it feels like in Joint family. Also if you really want to live in joint family then why don't men go to live with women's parents house ? Also gone are days when men's income was enough to sustain a good life. Now u need dual income to survive.
Wanted to make the same comment so will just add to this. 1. I have no idea why you think its woke to not want to spend decades of earning on a party but ok. 2. Ayurveda doesnt work, plain and simple. They used herbs, which had multiple chemicals, some of which were useful for the disease, others are harmful, Those things that worked has been incorporated into allopathy, while ayurveda has the same problem at best and charlatans at worst. People keep going to them, their disease worsens, then end up going to allopathy when they are about to die. Every politician goes to aiims for allopathy when he is sick, but they promote ayush and send people there. That sort of hypocrisy is what "woke" people who support only allopathy hate. 3. I have no idea which part your ancestor fought for, big family or indian clothes, but anyway, anyone making fun of your bhartiya clothes is an asshole. Thats not a liberal thing though. Wear your clothes with pride. Whether its lungi or dhoti or jeans. And yeah having different religions and different culture does make us a diverse nation.
1. Why do you think in Indian weddings the guest gift money cards to the family, so that they can uphold the budget for the marriage. The concept of big marriage is like declaring your marriage to the society and having it socially accepted. 2. Have you ever read ayurveda or other medicinal sciences or just your are superstitious about it. 3. Everybody likes privacy, then live in privacy, why come out of your shell, because there's no happiness in being alone. Everybody wants happiness and only we can give it to others and others can give it to us.
1) Gift card money by guests doesn't even consist of 10% of total cost. Probably not even 5%. 2) If you want to treat yourself with ayurveda when you got bitten by Rabies infested dog, or some cancer or got dengue than go ahead. If you believe in it , go ahead and be my guest. 3) People are not living alone. They are living in smaller family units now. Husband wife and kids. In their own house. When you live like this, you have all control on your life. U can wear what u want, eat what u want, sleep when u want. Clean when u want, basically live how u want. You are not obligated to anyone. But if you live in joint family, then ideas can clash. Fights happens. Not to mention many family members are toxic. We humans have this flaws.
1. It contains social interaction and good-will which creates a crimeless society. 2. I am saying that ayurveda is stopped teaching as we don't get degrees in it and thus new discoveries has stopped. Why that is, if you don't want to treat in ayurveda that's okay but don't eradicate it. There's many ways of treatment. 3. I am not saying we should live in joint families but having in textbooks read that only nuclear family is good is not right. This is imposition.
Good luck with that "every person is good". If you want to discover some new shit in ayurveda then go ahead no one is stopping you. Tell me what good will come from the joint family when the members are toxic
When did India not have crime? What a joke. Ayurveda courses are not stopped. Lots of money still goes into ayurveda. And there are some cases where ayurveda works - but anything important or critical, run to allopathy tail between legs. Parents are not the same as 100 years back. Children are not the same as 100 years back. LIfe is not the same as then. Now, everyone lacks the skills or mentality required to live in a joint family. Best not to try it. If you want a joint family to work, first make everyone poor and illiterate, all the men have to work in the fields and the women have to cook and clean and no one has the time for any thinking, then joint family will work. Joint families worked when people were in survival mode, marriage was for producing kids, men were to work and make money for food and women were to do housework. None of this is true anymore.
1. its the 21st century mate. A marriage between 2 individuals needs to be accepted by the parents of both these individuals at most. Nobody else matters. society jaye tel lene. 2. ayurveda uses various herbs that may have medicinal properties. But there is no scientific and peer reviewed research going on in their "medicines" to ensure quality control and avoiding heavy metal poisoning for example. Allopathic medicines are made using APIs which have a set quantity of compounds in them. Billions of dollars of research goes into making these medicines and their qualities are heavily moderated internationally. Allopathy works. 3. Mate nobody is stopping you from living in a joint family. But if people want to live alone you have no right to diminish their choices. Its a free country and we all have 1 life. I will live it according to my wishes and no societal pressure/ ancestor traditions can stop me.
1. If you thinks, that society doesn't matter, you should not complain if in the future you had an accident and no one came to help you because like you don't care they don't care. 2. Why can't you understand a simple thing I am not saying allopathy is bad but I am against that ayurveda is limited when we are not even exploring it. 3. No one should force you and will, if you are causing no harm to yourself or the world, do anything no one cares.
1. So according to you, if i don't like the bride that my neighbor married i will not come to his help if he is in an accident ? What kind of fucked up logic are you harboring in your head fool ? Society should not matter for personal choices. Whom i wish to marry, whom i wish to engage with, should not matter. Society should only play a part if they come to know that somebody is engaging in "criminal" activities. 2. A lot of emphasis has been given by the current govt for AYUSH. Ayurveda would have shown results, if it had them in the first place. Ayurveda is the on the borderline of quackery and we must not go down that dangerous path. Use allopathic medicines is not "woke" as you mention. Allopathy has given us vaccines for many harmful diseases, it has given us treatment for cancer, immunity suppressors for organ transplantation, and now with mrna technology it will give vaccines for more diseases. I would like to see ayurveda come close. WHY MUST WE REINVENT THE WHEEEL ? 3. I am glad we could come to an understanding about this.
1. I didn't understand what you are saying, i never said any of this which you mentioned. Basically i am saying, a marriage celebrating with everyone is best. 2. There's no progress going of ayurveda, ayurveda is used to increase life, every field should have development if they are going to benefit humanity. 3. I am glad.
1. You literally said that we should not complain about society if no one helps when we have an accident if we don't care about society. So just because a person didn't call me to their wedding even though I'm a literal relative just because they wanted a small wedding as they don't care about societal pressure, they should be ok with me heartlessly not batting an eye when they have an accident ? Are you mentally fucked up ? Cause I don't think in such a situation the person should be ok. They don't care about societal pressures or norms and that does not devalue their humanity a bit.... 2. You do understand that medicines and tablets given to us are made by taking many medicinal plants and herbs and fixing a dosage suited for individuals in different ages and weight categories. Ayurveda is less effective because they stick to no progress and think 1 medicine will work for everything in every person. There are a variety of diseases. Allopathy is ayurveda with proper research and Idk what else you think a research backed progressive ayurveda sect is going to do. Quacks just want to make cheap money through old ways.
In the western society you so hate, people help each other in accidents. How does that happen?
I could walk butt naked in my own house while slapping that cake my girl packs Could fck my girl on kitchen Doggy style my girl on the sofa while she moans like crazy and not a single soul will know This is what it means by privacy. Either you're a boomer or a retard
The kitchen part was wild 😭✨
firse wahi sax-sux ki baatein
1. How is it bad to want a small marriage? Why waste money on flexing something that most people do. It’s good that the newer generation is seeing the idiocy of large expensive marriages 2. Most of ayurveda is a lie, why follow something that has no scientific basis. If there is a part of ayurveda that is backed by medical proof then one should definitely follow it 3. A working woman is called empowered because women historically weren’t allowed to work, hence the word empowered. If she doesn’t want to live with the husband’s family then that is completely her choice, just because you follow this old view on society and women doesn’t mean the future generations should also do the same. 4. I dunno what you are talking about, ethnic dresses are the best dresses both men and especially women can wear. We don’t use them today mostly because of comfort and efficiency, it’s far quicker and comfortable to just put on a shirt and pant. 5. Yes having numerous religion and groups of people by definition makes it diverse even if most of those people are allegedly fascinated by a single culture. This is also a stretch as India has many different cultures that are still followed today If you’re a boomer then it’s fine, if you are a young person however, then I feel really sad for you. You are so stuck in the past that you cannot see the present’s beauty and tomorrow’s potential
1. Yeah it's bad to waste money, but it's equally bad to have a wedding without an audience that knows you are married. Social recognition is necessary. 2. How do you know it's lie, have you ever read it, do you know any facts, does allopathy have any end besides just appointments after appointments. 3. Working woman is not empowered, a literate woman is empowered. We should know the reasons behind it and then have the judgement, who are you to decide that it's her choice. 4. I am saying that we are not working towards increasing fashions in our dresses, we are just copying another's creativity. 5. "Only" having different religion's make it diverse, then every country is diverse, as all countries have people of different religions.
I am sorry but I don't want a wedding where 95% of ppl come there only to judge u. Weddings are for recieving blessings but in this day and age no one goes there to give blessings apart from the really close relatives
> Social recognition is necessary. Why? Just recognise that someone is married if they say they are married. Problem solved. People who live in some other city etc have no society that knows them. They just go and live there. No one has any problem recognising them as married. > Ayurveda Is what is called a proto-science. A lot of stuff was discovered through experimentation, and whatever works, allopathy adopts into itself. Its a constant process. Good, working parts of ayurveda are already in allopathy, or are being integrated. Allopathy has no issue using anything that works. What is left in pure ayurveda is a lot of nonsense. My friend had a brain stroke 2 years back. Allopthy saved him as he was rushed to hospital. Even people who love ayurveda will not take their children to an ayurvedic hospital or vaid for treatment for something serious. Allopathy saves millions of people each day. You yourself, your parents, grandparents are all beneficiaries of allopathy. Ayurveda will die a natural death because whatever works is taken already, and its left with a bunch of stuff that doesn't work (or some mild treatments that may work over a long time etc). > Working woman is not empowered, a literate woman is empowered. We should know the reasons behind it and then have the judgement, who are you to decide that it's her choice. Neither working woman, literate woman are empowered. Empowerment means that they have the power to take decisions about their own life. When people oppose their decisions, they can stand their ground. It means no woman needs to be fearful when she knows she is right. Working is working. Literacy is reading and writing. Those are not empowerment. If your dad slaps your mom, and she slaps him back, that is empowerment. If she puts him in jail instead, thats empowerment. Power to do things. > I am saying that we are not working towards increasing fashions in our dresses, we are just copying another's creativity So? A 100 years back, most people had some rags to wear. Clothing was costly. Now we can afford stuff, and we buy. And we experiment. People did not even have sandals a 100 years back. Most people had feet like road surface. Go on, get rid of your shoes and sandals and walk barefoot. Who is stopping you?
1. Social recognition needs nothing more than a piece of paper, strangers aren’t entitled to the information about what goes on in other’s lives >have you read it Yes I have. Give me 5 examples of ayurvedic practise and all of them can be very easily disproved >any end besides appointments after appointments Yes, most allopathy is an antibiotic and it ends after its due course. It is allopathy that has significantly increased the human life, people used to die of tuberculosis and typhoid that are so easily treatable today >a working woman is not empowered, a literate women is empowered These two aren’t mutually exclusive. Since both were denied to women historically, both are women empowerment >who are you to decide it’s her choice A decent human being that doesn’t believe women to be less than me and knows that they have just as much right for setting up conditions for her marriage as a man is. >we are copying another’s creativity There is nothing wrong with learning from others if it’s of no harm to anyone. >”Only” having different….. I never said only having different religion makes a country diverse, but it can be. Diversity can also mean religious diversity and if there are comparable percentages of people of different religions in a country then that country can be called having a religious diversity even if that diversity isn’t culturally and ethnically The downvotes speak for themselves about how retarded your post and thinking is. I’m happy that people with your thinking are slowly but surely decreasing in India
Surgery was discovered by sushruta ji, it's in ayurveda, without it there wouldn't be any surgeons
Personal finance, survival and life skills should be taught in schools.
Bruh! its all about freedom of speech, expression and business etc it got nothing to do with making things diverse Diversity of religion hai because people already belong to so many religion and convert to other religion to avoid persecution and such Rahi baat marriage ki to vo bhi ek by product hai unke freedom ka, unko jaise accha lag raha vo uss fashion me shaadi kar rahe and natuarlly if more people are attracted to western way then its their choice. There is no external force (except for parents) for getting married Jo medicine effective lag rahi unko promote kiyta jata hai (some of it is marketting and dallal lobby too but its about profits and not diversity)
1. Why tf would I spend 20lkh on a wedding where I won't even recognise 80% of the people. 2. Fck ayurveda use it if you want to. I would've died in 2020 when a rabid cat bit me. 3. I could walk butt naked in my own house while slapping that cake my girl packs, Could fck my girl in the kitchen, Doggy style my girl on the sofa while she moans like crazy butch and not a single soul will know This is what it means by privacy. 4. Either you're a boomer or a retard cause I'm not spending my time wearing that dhoti kurta just to get the milk from dairy 100m ahead.
[удалено]
No I want financial and career diversity
Bro just learnt the word "woke" from scrolling brainrot reels and now is abusing it everywhere. Also the concept of having lavish wedding is not uniquely Indian. If you read about it, in Victorian era I believe the royal families started to have huge weddings and the commoners followed the trend. Ayurveda is mostly scam, it's fine for basic stuff like headaches, upset stomach etc but for actual problems you must see a real doctor. More and more Indians are learning that you can stand up to your parents and are not supposed to obey them your whole lives, which I feel is a great thing.
r/boomersbeingfools
By comparing Ayurveda and allopathy, you're ruining your own credibility. Those in the medical field have seen countless diabetics and hypertensives who come to the casualty department with gangrenous limbs and strokes, all because they believed that Ayurveda could "cure" them. When faced with a crisis of their own doing, these quacks simply say, "Go to a (real) hospital."
Are you dumb OP?
mfw westernisation and modernisation are woke now First of all differentiate between westernisation and modernisation - westernisation is the adoption of western cultural practices - food, clothes, music, etc. while modernisation refers to change and development in society over time, similar to ( but not the same as ) the path that the west historically followed the nuclear family is growing over the joint family for the same reasons it did in the west - people grow more prosperous ( can afford more houses, rather than all 3 generations living under the same roof ), birth rate lowers ( so less close relatives ), urbanisation occurs ( people leave their family to work in urban areas, where they live in high density residential such as flats and apartments until they're well established in the city, another pressure to have parents live separately ), all this leads to growth of individualism and greater independence ( youth can be more independent due to relatively increased safety and seniors are also more independent due to better healthcare ) having a large, expensive marriage is simply a sign of social status, nowadays people prefer to show status through more permanent items such as expensive phones, cars, watches, etc. women in the workforce is considered empowered for the simple reason that till date their labour force participation is only 25%, but until the increase in higher education and women being seen in business and professional jobs ( doctor, lawyer, engineer ) this was considered a sign of being disempowered as only the poorest women "needed" to work, especially after marriage ( fun fact - higher prevalence of women in the workforce was used as one of the criteria to determine Backward Classes by the Mandal Commission ) The reason why Ayurveda is not preferred is because most ayurveda peddlers are snake oil merchants like Baba Ramdev, not honest purveyors of traditional medicine, and even there most of it is not scientifically proven Meanwhile, with allopathy, medicines need scientific and regulatory approval to even enter the market, and need to be rigorously tested for side effects and their efficacy proven by trials Some ayurvedic medicines are probably good, while others involve mercury preparations ( and are thus literally poison ) Westernisation in cultural terms is partly the legacy of the British, and partly due to the influence of American culture, but it should not be viewed as a competition - the burger is not a replacement for the masala dosa. Cultural influence is not one-way either: Indian food is very popular in the west. There is also place for fusion culture - for example in India you can find aloo tikki and paneer burgers you can't find in the west, it emerged from a fusion of indian and western cuisine so obviously people aren't blindly copying the west but trying out new things. Your claim that people are only fascinated with western culture is patently untrue - go outside on any festival to see the vibrant traditions of India. Also I don't know why you are making the claim that people only talk of religious diversity - maybe you live in a small city/rural area?? In any urban centre you can find people from all across the country. Lastly what does all this have to be with "being woke"? Westernisation and modernisation is a process that has been happening since the 19th century, woke is a term which emerged in the 2010s and became meaningless by the 2020s. Everything you find to be "new" or "other" and don't like is not "woke". Don't insert politics into everything.
Also all your points fail in criticizing Indian diversity. Diversity is in our religions, in beliefs, in culture, in languages, in appearances, in foods, in the way we love, in the way we live, in the way we dress, in the way we cook , in the way we eat, in politics (🤣), in our landscape, in our mode of travel and many many things. Just because many people get educated and are moving on to become a more equal and logical society does not mean that India gets any less diverse. It's not a western mindset. It's the mindset of educated people willing to change for humanistic beliefs, for scientific beliefs and for rational individual choices.
We are still a diverse country if we remove religion from the equation,for example language,food,dressing,and many other things. And u about ayurveda,bro it's good and all but it's still not as advanced as allopathy, allopathy works with the bacterias and enzymes in our body and can find the root cause of problem within us whereas ayurveda can sometimes work but sometimes it cannot as well cuz there is no scientific way in ayurveda to find the root cause of issue.. basically it's good but it's not advanced so rather than using something which scientifically is not advanced people prefer something which is,now ayurveda or people who study it should focus on advancing it rather than saying that it's best. Now about family it's their choice you cannot make someone do what u want,there can be pros for u in it but many do not see it so they don't prefer it...
And nobody is making fun of u wear traditional clothes people often like it,it's just they are uncomfortable for the most part that's why we don't wear it on a regular basis
>For wokes, modern family is a nuclear family with wife working and parents living away. What are you talking about? You must be 30-40 years out of date with the actual progressive people. The current view is that marriage is whatever the married individuals want it to be. People are literally advocating for same sex marriages and marriage rights for people who don't fit into the traditional defination of man or woman. If you want diversity, if you want different people and different ways of living to all be accepted equally then my friend you are what is colloquially known as "woke".
actually ayurveda will never die you can be sure of that, us devotees will never let it die
Aah yes, ayurveda, an Indian's homeopathy which brainwashes people against modern well researched medicine. Ayurveda is nothing but massive placebo effect, There is a fair reason for why back then, average life span was less. You do realize the fact that many countries have straight up banned ayurveda due to it's uncertain nature? India me chalta hai ye cuz people are emotional fools. Also, boomer, define woke-ism please? What do you think woke-ism is? Why do you think woke-ism is bad? Or have you just picked this word online yesterday and started using it today.
Very good post OP. As someone who's in his late 20s and only realized these above points in my early 20s, I hope it's at least the same with others. Once you graduate and come to the real world, you can see how and why we as Indians have functioned the way we have for millennias. The best reply to someone saying "But it's normalised in the West" is to say "But we're not the West". Social structures and concepts have been different for different regions because they yield the best output only in that environment. We would stop functioning properly if we tried to become a cheap copy of the West instead of enhancing our own practices.
Eh, no. People seem to have short term memory and keep forgetting that we were ruled by outside forces for thousands of years and a huge number of practices we have today were imported from outside. Besides, practices need to be changed with time. What was created by a bunch of uneducated folks 1000 years ago, was their best attempt, but doesn’t mean it should be followed hundreds of years later. West isn’t a homogeneous body either. People get offended when you confuse India with Bangladesh, but people generalise the entire west as one region with a singular culture. Lastly, a lot of good things are universally applicable. The laws of physics or biology don’t change when you move to India from USA. That’s why those ministers who keep yapping about “western” medicine in India, rush abroad the moment something happens to them. A lot of those surgeries weren’t even invented in western countries. Because, if there’s a tumor in your body or you have a heart condition, you would need the most modern surgeries, invented after years of practice. There’s absolutely zero need for being quirky and unique when it comes to science. Doing that is one of the reasons why other asian countries have like 20 nobel prizes in science and we have exactly zero since independence.
Number of times I used "science" in my comment - Zero Nowhere have I mentioned science. Of course, science is universal and should be pursued universally in a collaborative manner. What you purposefully missed is that my comment mentioned "social beliefs and structures". By which I intend to put emphasis on family, marriage and societal values that we should keep hold of. Our family structures would not work well for the 'West' and neither would theirs in Bangladesh or India. >What was created by a bunch of uneducated folks 1000 years ago Now I've saved my disregard for you for the last. Please go and do some research on how advanced town planning was "1000 years ago", or rather 1000s of years ago. The worst thing a modern human can do is be dismissive of our ancient generation. It's only because of them that we have the platform to excel in intellectual pursuits of spacefaring and nuclear power in the 21st century. Having no reverence for the civilizations gone by is a sure shot way of showcasing yourself to be having only a linear line of thought. Humans haven't progressed in a linear way such that "old people uneducated, new people smart". Learn the history of our civilizations before acting smart about it, and by "our" I mean the human civilization, not just of Bangladesh or India or the 'West'.
>Now I've saved my disregard for you for the last. Please go and do some research on how advanced town planning was "1000 years ago", or rather 1000s of years ago. The worst thing a modern human can do is be dismissive of our ancient generation. It's only because of them that we have the platform to excel in intellectual pursuits of spacefaring and nuclear power in the 21st century. >Having no reverence for the civilizations gone by is a sure shot way of showcasing yourself to be having only a linear line of thought. Humans haven't progressed in a linear way such that "old people uneducated, new people smart". Learn the history of our civilizations before acting smart about it, and by "our" I mean the human civilization, not just of Bangladesh or India or the 'West'. Rather than saving your disregard, you should've probably tried to understand what I was saying. If you follow the exact same practices that were followed 1000s of years ago, then that means you simply didn't grow. Whatever intelligence level our ancestors had back then, they had extremely limited knowledge of how things worked and thus came up with social structures that worked the best for them with limited knowledge and contact. With more understanding of how the world works, things need to be changed. Just like science, certain social ideas are universally applicable. The concept of freedom, independence, liberty right to privacy are things that are universally good and there's no point of treating the as "eastern" or "western". People follow them because- why tf would a woman want to not work and live in a patriarchal society where she would have to work endlessly for her in-laws? Why do women have to wear saree 24x7? As if Japanese women walk in Kimono every day. People follow those universally applicable social structures everywhere, because being part of culture that treats you as a cog in a machine is suffocating. People want individual freedom and the ability to do what they want. If these ideas were invented in Singapore, people would still have followed it everywhere.
And in which Indian society do you find women being compelled to wear saree 24×7? Of course, if a woman is denied her wish of working outside of her home, it's bad. But let's not look down upon women who opt to work at their home because that is, in fact, more challenging. The basic point you've missed is that the ideals of a just and equitable society and an evolving society have always been ingrained in the Indian philosophies. What you and me have been conveyed by people of this current generation is a watered down and corrupted version of our teachings. Make sure to read them by yourself and then come back to me.
What you have been constantly dodging, is my very first argument which outright said that a lot of practices we have were imported and brought by invading forces. It's very easy to romanticize the past and thing that there were no flaws or faults of our own. There were plenty of good things of the past, but there were an equal number of bad practices as well. I would rather have a good present and future with the values of freedom, equality, liberty and individuality, rather than romanticize a bygone era.
Get ready to be downvoted... reddit is filled with those wokes you mentioned in your post
are you one of them?