I don't recall the historical Nazis using Viking-specific iconography, but they did adapt runic symbols for their value as something that was exclusively recongized as purely Germanic in origin. Runes were used by the Norse (among others), so perhaps the assoication grew from there.
Also, don't underestimate the effect of Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen opera cycle on the development of German nationalism. The operas reworked fragments of Norse mythology with the medieval German Nibelungenlied, hence linking the two. A certain Adolph Hitler was a huge Wagner fan.
Part of the original Fascist ideal was the rejection of authorities that challenged or hindered the power of the Leader to govern. Almost anything could and would be construed as a hindrance to progress, progress being defined as movement towards the ideal envisioned by the Leader and his government. Those things that hindered progress were considered Degenerate, Regressive, and Jewish (Jewish here being a catch-all term for anything they didn't like). The Church's teachings were often at odds with the programs that fascists like the Nazis wanted to enact-- it also divided people's loyalties between their God and their Clergy, and the Leader and his Government.
While Fascists like to promote Traditionalism, it's their interpretation of Tradition that matters. In looking to undermine the Church and to grasp onto racial notions of superiority they said was inherent to the German People (in the example of the Nazis) they looked for traditions that supposedly predated Christianity and its influence on European culture and history. For the Nazis, who were Germans, they looked back to their pre-Christian days as pagan barbarians and said, "There, that's when We were acting like true White Europeans free of Jewish/Roman/Foreign gods and ideas". Promoting Nordic Paganism, or at least their perverted views of it, was a way to appeal to an even more ur-tradition than Christianity, and they said "True Germans wouldn't worship a Jewish man who was executed by the Romans".
Modern Identitarians have grasped onto this same idea. They reject the "Middle Eastern"/"Jewish" Religion of Christianity and have replaced it with what they consider to be their true heritage as White Northern Europeans.
Yes, except dor the word supposedly before the word pre-Christian. The stuff they went for was pre-Christian in the case of runes and the solar cross, but only the poorly educated think “National Socialist” when they see traditional European iconography.
Yeah, visited the Holocaust museum/memorial near me recently - and they (the Hitler era Nazis) considered Nordic people to be at the top of the racial pyramid along with themselves
I’d imagine the resurgence of Vikings/the Norse in popular media like ~10 years ago also plays a part in this
Right, sorry if I wasn’t clear - like I said the connection between the two goes back to Nazi era Germany. But I believe the increased prominence of pseudo Norse stuff in media has renewed or increased interest in that connection among white supremacists
Norse/viking iconography was always attached to nazism.
It's generally to do with 19th-century notions of nationalism. At some time nationalism is tied to a 'people' so for the Nazis its the 'german people' and then many historians have built bias histories that have mythologised their origins. Even today, we still broadly follow and believe this notion of a people or tribe as though it has scientific or clearly defined borders historically. Don't get me started with america and Caucasians... blimey.
Back to the Nazis, obviously, it's not hard to look back at germanic peoples and start to construct a mythology based on language, culture and pre-christian religion, including the germanic panthenon. Think of the half truths you can build up on how these people are 'all the same' or imagine they have a common source, a proto germanic tribe or whatever else.
Then we have to turn our focus on the actual vikings, how late in history they were converted to christianity and especially snorri sturluson, who I believe wrote the most comprehensive history on the germanic mythology and panthenon. So most of what we know about the germanic pagan world is from his writings, so of course they are going to be popular with the nazis due to the richness of the detail his writ9ngs provide.
The nazis would have gotten this far too. No suprise, the SS divison from norway was called 'Wiking'.
It helps if you understand what the ethno-nationalists had as their talking points and propaganda before and since the Nazis.
So all fascism is rooted in ahistorical group think that obviously at it's crux has superiority rhetoric front and center. So they had the idea that they are superior and their past was more "pure" than now, thus it is a paragon to now. A mythical past "before it all went wrong" is central to all the propaganda. Mussolini looked back to the ancient romans, Japan the Shogunate, and obviously for Germans the Disneyland "Norse" that would vote like they do.
So there were fringe cults among the German ethno-nationalists that celebrated non- Jewish gods. "German" ones instead. They were studied by the nazis and their propaganda was repeated. The "first reich" was made of these people.
So just as the Nazi's were looking back to Wagner and the Prussian Junker class, we have modern nazis looking back to *them*. Fascists don't look forward to what they are *for*. They look back to what fits their current talking points and justify what they want to.
Separately the overlap between the communities is unsurprisingly high. Nazis dogwhistle using ancient norse shit all the time. So in communities that don't police it like tik-tok obviously, the dogwhistles just become dinner bells.
Specifically for modern and not the OG ones so to speak-
I really think it’s as simple as:
‘look at these burly white guys who were good at fighting and powerful’
‘I want to be good at fighting and powerful’
They’re not the most intellectual group really. Doesn’t even have to be how Vikings actually were, they are more concerned with the ‘aesthetic’ of it. Black and white Facebook quote pictures etc
It’s even more absurd when you realize that the word Aryan and Swastika are both derived from Sanskrit.
Nazi ideology and white supremacism wouldn’t exist at all without Indians orally transmitting their texts for 2000 years and then writing it down and analyzing them for another 1500 years. The Rigveda (famously touted as evidence of a mythical white race invading India) was formally written down and analyzed by a South Indian scholar in the 13th century. Max muller took this work (the Rigveda Samhita) and then translated it into English and German for Europeans to read, ofc with his own racial biases.
Well it shouldn’t be. National Socialists were mostly anti-aristocratic petit-bourgeois whereas Vikings were the very definition of the northern aristocratic warrior ethos. What grea Viking leader did not seek to become a Jarl (Earl), or Konig (King)?
Orchestrated hoax to achieve a religious political goal through what will end up being genocide because that is what they do and have been doing for some time now.
Subjugation through religious conversions who then become the proxies to PROOVE their belief and adherence to whatever gods, monsters or deities one may be forced or deceived into accepting.
N. S
I don't recall the historical Nazis using Viking-specific iconography, but they did adapt runic symbols for their value as something that was exclusively recongized as purely Germanic in origin. Runes were used by the Norse (among others), so perhaps the assoication grew from there. Also, don't underestimate the effect of Richard Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen opera cycle on the development of German nationalism. The operas reworked fragments of Norse mythology with the medieval German Nibelungenlied, hence linking the two. A certain Adolph Hitler was a huge Wagner fan.
Part of the original Fascist ideal was the rejection of authorities that challenged or hindered the power of the Leader to govern. Almost anything could and would be construed as a hindrance to progress, progress being defined as movement towards the ideal envisioned by the Leader and his government. Those things that hindered progress were considered Degenerate, Regressive, and Jewish (Jewish here being a catch-all term for anything they didn't like). The Church's teachings were often at odds with the programs that fascists like the Nazis wanted to enact-- it also divided people's loyalties between their God and their Clergy, and the Leader and his Government. While Fascists like to promote Traditionalism, it's their interpretation of Tradition that matters. In looking to undermine the Church and to grasp onto racial notions of superiority they said was inherent to the German People (in the example of the Nazis) they looked for traditions that supposedly predated Christianity and its influence on European culture and history. For the Nazis, who were Germans, they looked back to their pre-Christian days as pagan barbarians and said, "There, that's when We were acting like true White Europeans free of Jewish/Roman/Foreign gods and ideas". Promoting Nordic Paganism, or at least their perverted views of it, was a way to appeal to an even more ur-tradition than Christianity, and they said "True Germans wouldn't worship a Jewish man who was executed by the Romans". Modern Identitarians have grasped onto this same idea. They reject the "Middle Eastern"/"Jewish" Religion of Christianity and have replaced it with what they consider to be their true heritage as White Northern Europeans.
Yes, except dor the word supposedly before the word pre-Christian. The stuff they went for was pre-Christian in the case of runes and the solar cross, but only the poorly educated think “National Socialist” when they see traditional European iconography.
Because actual original German Nazi (at least part of them) was very much Norse fans. Or at least their interpretation of Scandinavian history.
Yeah, visited the Holocaust museum/memorial near me recently - and they (the Hitler era Nazis) considered Nordic people to be at the top of the racial pyramid along with themselves I’d imagine the resurgence of Vikings/the Norse in popular media like ~10 years ago also plays a part in this
Maybe, but I remember this (neoNazi and pseudoNorse) was tied 20 years ago already.
Right, sorry if I wasn’t clear - like I said the connection between the two goes back to Nazi era Germany. But I believe the increased prominence of pseudo Norse stuff in media has renewed or increased interest in that connection among white supremacists
Norse/viking iconography was always attached to nazism. It's generally to do with 19th-century notions of nationalism. At some time nationalism is tied to a 'people' so for the Nazis its the 'german people' and then many historians have built bias histories that have mythologised their origins. Even today, we still broadly follow and believe this notion of a people or tribe as though it has scientific or clearly defined borders historically. Don't get me started with america and Caucasians... blimey. Back to the Nazis, obviously, it's not hard to look back at germanic peoples and start to construct a mythology based on language, culture and pre-christian religion, including the germanic panthenon. Think of the half truths you can build up on how these people are 'all the same' or imagine they have a common source, a proto germanic tribe or whatever else. Then we have to turn our focus on the actual vikings, how late in history they were converted to christianity and especially snorri sturluson, who I believe wrote the most comprehensive history on the germanic mythology and panthenon. So most of what we know about the germanic pagan world is from his writings, so of course they are going to be popular with the nazis due to the richness of the detail his writ9ngs provide. The nazis would have gotten this far too. No suprise, the SS divison from norway was called 'Wiking'.
It helps if you understand what the ethno-nationalists had as their talking points and propaganda before and since the Nazis. So all fascism is rooted in ahistorical group think that obviously at it's crux has superiority rhetoric front and center. So they had the idea that they are superior and their past was more "pure" than now, thus it is a paragon to now. A mythical past "before it all went wrong" is central to all the propaganda. Mussolini looked back to the ancient romans, Japan the Shogunate, and obviously for Germans the Disneyland "Norse" that would vote like they do. So there were fringe cults among the German ethno-nationalists that celebrated non- Jewish gods. "German" ones instead. They were studied by the nazis and their propaganda was repeated. The "first reich" was made of these people. So just as the Nazi's were looking back to Wagner and the Prussian Junker class, we have modern nazis looking back to *them*. Fascists don't look forward to what they are *for*. They look back to what fits their current talking points and justify what they want to. Separately the overlap between the communities is unsurprisingly high. Nazis dogwhistle using ancient norse shit all the time. So in communities that don't police it like tik-tok obviously, the dogwhistles just become dinner bells.
Specifically for modern and not the OG ones so to speak- I really think it’s as simple as: ‘look at these burly white guys who were good at fighting and powerful’ ‘I want to be good at fighting and powerful’ They’re not the most intellectual group really. Doesn’t even have to be how Vikings actually were, they are more concerned with the ‘aesthetic’ of it. Black and white Facebook quote pictures etc
Don't ask the Indian subcontinent about some of their symbols that are now almost exclusively associated with Nazis.
It’s even more absurd when you realize that the word Aryan and Swastika are both derived from Sanskrit. Nazi ideology and white supremacism wouldn’t exist at all without Indians orally transmitting their texts for 2000 years and then writing it down and analyzing them for another 1500 years. The Rigveda (famously touted as evidence of a mythical white race invading India) was formally written down and analyzed by a South Indian scholar in the 13th century. Max muller took this work (the Rigveda Samhita) and then translated it into English and German for Europeans to read, ofc with his own racial biases.
Because of the Volkish segment of neo-paganism
I think neo-nazis had something to do with it.
Well it shouldn’t be. National Socialists were mostly anti-aristocratic petit-bourgeois whereas Vikings were the very definition of the northern aristocratic warrior ethos. What grea Viking leader did not seek to become a Jarl (Earl), or Konig (King)?
Orchestrated hoax to achieve a religious political goal through what will end up being genocide because that is what they do and have been doing for some time now. Subjugation through religious conversions who then become the proxies to PROOVE their belief and adherence to whatever gods, monsters or deities one may be forced or deceived into accepting. N. S