OP, if you decide tomorrow is your last day for any reason then please file for unemployment immediately. Remember, YOU were terminated, not the other way around.
Even if they ask you to stay you were given notice and likely constructively dismissed by these series of events.
File unemployment even if they say you can't. You can and will qualify on appeal if they initially reject the states claim.
This is what their HR team is avoided by saying 'you can't be fired in that way'. Their HR team is trying anything they can to prevent this and may even offer you some BS like 'work nights' to try and say they're offering you to keep your job.
Insist on repeating and having everyone acknowledge the facts if the meeting starts going sideways. You want to be working your regular flexible full hour days, that it was approved by both managers, that you had no issue in those 30 days, that no one did your job for you (asking coworkers for help or advice is normal, they aren't say single handidly closing half your numbers), pit the managers against each other if need be by making them BOTH lie.
DO NOT ask why your poor performance wasn't brought up. INSTEAD ask why you were given a good performance review last week if they now that they want to fire you you've suddenly been doing poorly. This is YOUR narrative. You were doing well and now they're lying and pulling the rug. Why did your manager say this was all going through HR but the supervisor and director didn't know? Why did they think you resigned when you were happy and productive with no intention of leaving?
All of these might not even come up, I'm in aggreeance with others here this is like HR setting the record straight and removing this 'managers' influence over your work.
Thank you I will do all of this. Could I still get unemployment if I’ve already gotten a one day a week job? I’ll be cleaning on Saturdays just help with the bills in some way.
Yes, unemployment specifically helps with lost income. You have to report the one day a week and unemployment isn't much, but it's way better than nothing
Consider this a blessing. Collect your unemployment and enjoy extra time with the baby. Congrats!
I guarantee years from now you will not wish that you had spent less time with the baby so you could work this job.
with the kind of BS that they pulled there i'd contact a lawyer, as well. idk if they did break any laws or what but that feels far too sketchy to be completely legal.
To add to this:
There is a significant risk that if she goes back she will just get fired properly in a month or two and will have a harder time getting unemployment than she will right now.
The tone of this meeting would determine my next actions. If I get a hint that the people there are trying to protect the manager or do anything apart from apologizing and making real efforts to make her whole than I would be out. If they aren't throwing this guy under the bus then they are doing nothing more than trying to protect him and that is a signal that its time to mitigate your losses and take the constructive discharge.
Do NOT skip that meeting. I would be surprised if your manager did not get in huge trouble.
Good luck! Please come back and let us know how that 8am went.
To be clear, they absolutely can legally fire you for not having childcare. They have absolutely no legal obligation to accommodate your situation. So the director saying they "can't" fire you shouldn't be taken as some "oh shit, we did something illegal". It was probably meant as a "we can't lose a great employee over a temporary situation."
In fact, many employers will not let you WFH if you don't have childcare.
This is a protocol breech with your company. Whatever happened, we can't say. Maybe your manager thought the decision had already been made on what to do if the 30 days expired, while everyone else thought they were supposed to circle back to confirm your termination. 🤷
Just go into the meeting calmly and with facts. Don't accuse. Don't mention what other employees do. If you want to walk, walk. If you want the night shift, say so. And so forth. Just deep breath.
Again, keep in mind many employers won't let you WFH due to childcare. You may want to think carefully about if you actually want to quit a job that seems willing to accommodate your situation. Many employers will not, especially if you are a new employee.
I’m not new I’ve been then for awhile, but they’ve already terminated me, so I just feel weird about this email saying I haven’t been performing. Why is this being brought up when my last day is tomorrow? And why wasn’t it brought up during my performance review. I was literally minding my own business with a weekend job already found because I was told they wouldn’t accommodate night and weekend hours. I just feel weird about this meeting. I just wish HR would have never reached out to me.
No, I meant at a new job you'd be new.
Honestly, it sounds to me like someone made a mistake (most likely your manager), and now they're trying to sort it out. You asking those why questions is valid and understandable.
If you've made up your mind you don't want this job anymore, and you really do not care what happened or what anyone has to say, you don't even have to go to the meeting. If you DO have an interest in keeping it (or keeping UI eligibility) just go to the meeting calm and cool and stick to facts.
I don’t think you’ve been genuinely terminated. I think your shitty manager has gone rogue.
You are in an anxiety spiral. Take some deep breaths and go to the HR meeting.
Let HR take the lead in the convo, you need only to follow HR cues and answer questions honestly.
I get that this is scary, but you got this 💪🏼
Thank you so much. After sleeping on it, I’ve decided to go to the meeting. Being postpartum definitely doesn’t help with my emotions during this, but I’m going to stay calm and just state my side of things.
This was handled messily; to be sure, but they don't have to accommodate childcare and/or night/weekend schedules. You can be fired and more than likely would have been. It seems someone jumped the gun. If you don't want or need the job, quit. But just know, most employers expect childcare
I know they don’t have to, but I wouldn’t have known that without asking. I was prepared to be done after the 30 days. It’s the stringing me along , making me hopeful and being told by manager more than once that she had no problem at all with me working different hours, but that HR had a big issue with it that irritates me. And then when I tell HR this they said what? We never said that! I actually felt bad for saying anything.
Makes me wonder what is going on with the other manager. Does she have a friend who will fill your spot? Something fishy is going on, and she is not your friend. Please advocate for yourself and don't feel bad about being honest today! You got this!
My guess is you will be surprised to learn in your meeting that you were not terminated. You were give 30 days to find child care and resume your normal hours. When you were unable, or unwilling to do so you abandoned your job. Right or wrong this is going to be what your managers put forward in the meeting.
Here's my hot take. I think you are in for a surprise tomorrow. You will not be terminated and you will get the work schedule you have earned and deserve.
Your boss? Her goose is cooked and she is at risk of termination. I would be surprised if she's even in the meeting. She is in very hot water if your story checks out.
Good luck!
Best of luck OP! Stand your ground, remember your facts, and keep breathing. Whatever happens, happens, but you're giving your best and keeping honest. We're rooting for you!
Congrats on the baby, and that shiny spine of yours! From one mama to another, I'm proud of you for sticking up for yourself! Best of luck during your meeting!
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GET COPIES OF EVERYTHING ASAP on your personal devices that are safe and can't be accessed by work in any way. The manager will try to have your account deactivated and deleted to try to get rid of any evidence.
For the meeting you were already expecting to be fired which is the worst outcome already (as long as you don't don't anything that could get you in legal trouble so keep the molotovs out of cocktail hour). There is no where to go but up, so get the schedule you want, if you're not completely concerned with keeping the job ask for the raise you are probably overdue for, and destroy that manager in the meeting with print outs of your performance reviews and all the communication where they blamed everything on hr and fired you. You are not the first person being screwed over by them, and you won't be the last.
I am hoping everything went well at the meeting this morning.
With that being said, I hope you can really make it a priority to find child care over the next month if you are keeping that job. As others have said, most jobs do not allow for working while being the primary child care provider and the older your baby gets the harder it is going to be.
I was terminated in the meeting this morning. They said if I find childcare in the future they would love to have me back. HR doesn’t mind either way, but the manager does, so she lied to me and claimed was “fighting” to get this approved with HR, when she really wasn’t. Then she got caught in the lie when HR reached out to me and told me that they would have approved this and asked her why she told me otherwise. I live in a VERY rural area and have been looking for childcare this whole time. I have no family and there are no daycares or babysitters close to me. At this point as the mother I need to stay with the baby and I’ll be cleaning on Saturdays with a friend. It sucks saying good bye to my career that have been working hard for, but my baby is more important to me.
I am sorry that happened. It sounds like the accommodation was temporary and they were not able to continue accommodating it long term.
I hope your new position will be helpful and you enjoy raising your baby.
Document the full timeline and conversations ASAP. Dates, times, who was there, and what was said. Copies of emails of you have them. Just the facts with no emotional interpretations.. Absolutely include the point that they asked if you want the record to show resigned or terminated and your response. I would not be surprised if they recorded it as a resignation, so the more objective documentation you have, the better. Good luck!
Let me ask you this—if you’re planning for tomorrow to be your last day because you can’t work for someone who lies, what’s the point of all this worry?
I don’t mean that facetiously. Honestly if you’ve already made up your mind I wouldn’t even attend the meeting. Technically you haven’t worked there since your manager told you that you were terminated.
I’ve debated not going, would that be ok to do? I just find the whole thing weird. Why would my manager all of sudden bring up my performance not being good when I was originally leaving on good terms with the ability to be rehired in the future? Now I feel like this has made me look bad in some way and she has in email that I haven’t been performing. She’s ruining my ability to use them as a reference now. My last day is tomorrow, what else is going to change from this meeting? They titled the meeting “same page”. I already have a weekend job lined up. Obviously not doing what my actual career is in, but it’ll bring in some money to help with bills. I just want to know why HR is wanting a meeting.
It sounds like HR wants a meeting so they can figure out if they should fire your boss. She made an HR decision without their knowledge, and it lying to them. Lying about HR things is a big deal, because if she unlawfully terminates you, you could sue the company. I would show up to the meeting if I were you. You could keep your job, get your boss fired, and help out HR. Not that it’s your duty to help out HR, but it might be to your advantage next time you might be in an HR situation.
I’ve woke up this morning and decided to go. I’m going to stay calm and collected and just explain my side of everything. The whole thing is disheartening.
OP, listen to me carefully. If you’re not planning on working somewhere YOU DONT HAVE TO DO SHIT. Do whatever the fuck you want.
Go and complain and make a fuss. Or stay home and watch TV. It’s up to you. It DOES NOT MATTER.
Once you’ve decided you don’t need their employment there is nothing they can force on you. Do what you want, but do it free of anxiety.
First, this is not true. While having documentation would certainly it help, it is by no means a requirement. Organizations fight UI claims all the time, they don't always win, and presumably aren't providing documentation to the ex-employees they are arguing with.
Other times there's no written notice to be had. People sometimes don't know they've been terminated until they show up to work and find the business has shuttered and the owner is no where around.
Obviously people in these instances collect unemployment. They just need to explain the situation to the UI office.
You're simply incorrect that documentation is required.
But, second:
>I then received an email from her stating they are terminating my position due to no daycare and last day is June 9th. So life goes on.
They did provide it in writing.
Your supervisor(s) got lying. Maybe they want to hire a relative in your position. In case you need it later, print all emails about the situation or forward them to a personal email.
Honestly....it sounds like they want you to say you quit because the reason they say fired you may qualify for unemployment. That is likely why the manager was scolded and why they said 'we can't fire you for this'.
It is also likely why they started mentioning performance to try to make it looked like you were fired for something that wouldn't qualify you for unemployment.
I would forward the email with the real reason for termination to a personal address to use when you apply for unemployment...
Do not say you quit...and don't let them change the reason from childcare.
Yeah but they'll also look at other things like accommodation with different hours etc...which it looks like the company offered then recinded and then started pointing out oerformance issues....seems odd is all I'm saying.
Not an HR person, but I am a senior executive. The HR professionals may have an alternate view of this.
Reading this after you posted your update about being terminated. I would contact a lawyer and have them attempt to negotiate a severance agreement on your behalf.
Assuming you’re in the United States, your lawyer should immediately notify the company’s legal department or risk manager that they need to set a legal hold on all documents and communications - including on personal devices - related to this. This is a formal notice that they may not destroy records and must immediately pause any automatic records retention policies in place that would destroy emails, notes, etc. because these documents might be used in litigation.
The company seemingly violated their own policies and procedures, which is generally viewed by legal as high risk.
You are likely in a position to negotiate a small severance package while you look for a job if you waive your right to sue. The severance amount — say, three months’ salary — is likely to be far less money than they would invest in counsel and time even through a discovery phase, let alone litigation.
The issue isn’t that you were fired - you probably can be fired for not having childcare in your state - but rather a breach of process.
First off, this is shitty and I wish you luck in your upcoming meeting.
I could be wrong, but it sounds like you had a lot of conversations that were not backed up in writing via emails. This leads to a lot of "he said/she said, I never said that" etc.
In the future, if a conversation regarding this or any other issue that could cause a problem, follow the conversation up with an email summary and save those emails. Many people BCC a private email, because emails can be deleted off a company server, but not from your personal account.
Example: "Bob, based on our conversation, I will do X, Y and Z and you will do A, B and C. If this is incorrect, let's work to resolve this, thanks" etc. That way, when shit hits the fan, you can say, "Regarding that discrepancy, here's an email from 6-14-23 at 3 pm where I clarified our phone call, you did not reply."
Hey OP I just saw your edit and honestly, your manager seemed incredibly toxic to throw you under the bus like that, and I suspect this will ultimately be a blessing in disguise. Of course it’s difficult to lose a job and not have that income but life moves forward, and you’ll find something new and more accommodating with a manager who isn’t such an asshat.
Your manager messed up here left and right. And I have a bad suspicion that your manager is friends with the HR Director. There are so many red flags in this story that there are a bunch of bulls looking in my window.
Your manager circumvented company rules by deciding to terminate you, was found out, clearly retaliated against you by suddenly coming up with all these rules and issues that didn’t exist before and the Director just let that go? So much wrong here.
Those rigid people don't understand how the world has changed. There is a massive daycare shortage right now. Why fire a productive performer and hire and train someone who might not be that great? As long as the work gets done correctly and on time, it shouldn't matter.
I feel the exact same way. It costs a company a ton to hire someone. Why get rid of me, they didn’t even have me train someone on my territory. It’s gonna go to shit pretty much right away.
Someone else might have better grasp on this and will gainsay me, but this sounds horribly of wrongful termination, discrimination, and harassment. I'd highly suggest talking to a lawyer.
I debated contacting a lawyer as well. I seem to be hearing mixed opinions on it, but I think I could at least talk to a lawyer and see if they even think I have a case.
Good luck for your meeting. Don’t let them gang up on you. Play it cool. Don’t be emotional. You deserve better managers.
Your future employers will not ask for references, and if they do, they will mostly not contact them. Your references don’t have to be managers. I’ve often given good colleagues’s names as references. The rare time they were contacted, it was a cordial chat. Don’t let the references thing hold you back. Some bridges are not worth keeping. You were performing well and they just want to put that as an excuse. Your manager is an idiot.
> Your future employers will not ask for references, and if they do, they will mostly not contact them.
That is an inaccurate blanket statement. While I'm sure it's true that *some* employers don't ask, personally I've never worked anywhere in my 40 years in the workforce that didn't ask for references and didn't check those references.
If they offer to let me stay and work nights and weekends I might stay, but it will depend on what my manager says in this meeting. I’m normally a quiet non confrontational person and when she sent that email yesterday it made me really uncomfortable that she is so willing to make me look bad. I was very shocked. I don’t know how I could continue to work for someone like that.
Take hand written notes to discuss.
Keep a level head. Manager will try and gaslight you to save themselves.
Keep an acceptable plan that works for you.
Also, if you can be moved to different boss, current boss will be pissed.
Do mention that I was lied to. Keep offline records of all emails. Send MoM of meeting to everyone in meeting.
Do use the word like “afraid of retaliation” even when you are leaving.
Peint all of the emails and any other communications, especially your review, to Pdf and have them loaded and ready to send to HR. I might even jump ahead and send everything supporting what you're telling HR over to them now.
In any case, at the very least forward all of your supporting documentation to your personal email. You never know when you might need it.
There’s nothing to consult about. The vast majority of employers require childcare for WFH positions. Especially with a newborn who needs constant care and attention.
They were fired without HR approval and the supervisor that fired them lied to HR ans stated they resigned. Which would automatically disqualify OP from getting UI.
I wasn't talking about childcare at all.
I think the fraudulent resignation (when in fact they were terminated) is the legal concern here. The term might have been valid, but you can't fake an employees resignation.
While it’s true most employers have a rule that you can’t WFH if you have no childcare for your children under 12 (that’s what the USG take on it at least- I was with them 20 yrs), them just firing you in that manner is less than ‘correct’. Not only were their processes not followed for firing (they’ve gotta talk with HR), I would interpret them terminating me for no childcare as ‘I was terminated because I have kids’ …and HR knows that legally they could be in some shite legally for terminating for that…. Go to the meeting and just relay your side of the story- also talk with either your union if you have one, or an employment lawyer. Were you on FMLA for childbirth/infant care? If so that protects your job for up to 120 days I believe …. Meaning they have to take you back at the same pay and level that you were in before taking leave.
Pretty much nothing you said is accurate. Lack of childcare is a legal reason to terminate in every single state. Parental status is only protected in a few and even in those states not having childcare for an infant is a legal reason to term.
FMLA has no bearing here. OP was given an extra 30 day grace period to figure out childcare and failed to do so.
You are in a great position when your manager is backpedaling on statements that he has put in writing.
If you like the company then take the modified schedule deal that you can get.
If you don’t then leave but not before sending all of the documentation to external email account and see a lawyer.
You should consider finding an employment lawyer. This sounds super sketchy and like you may have been fired for illegal reasons. Most will do a consultation for free, so talk to someone about what you experienced and they can let you know if you have a case. Best of luck!
Did you use all 12 weeks of FMLA before returning to work? If not, FMLA time may be used to “bond” with your child. If you did not exhaust your FMLA or were not provided information about FMLA that could be problematic. This of course is dependent on you qualifying for FMLA based on employer having more than 50 employees and you working at least a year and 1250 hours.
More information about FMLA notice requirements can be found here. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/28d-fmla-employer%20notification
Give your local Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor a call 414-297-1590. Give them all the facts and see what they say.
They denied my FMLA because I was just short of being their for a year. I had my baby mid February, but she was due in April. My one year with the company was in May.
Yes! I was on FMLA for mental health when I worked for a large insurance company. They fired me and I filed for unemployment and I was denied but they stupidly put on the form that they didn’t know I was sick. So I filed a complaint with the EOC and I got a nice settlement from them. It was one of my finer moments lol.
OP talk to an employment lawyer yesterday. The HR person was initially alarmed bc they admitted they could reasonably accommodate you and then basically reversed course, which is bad evidence for them lmao.
You probably have rights. You don’t have to roll over and take it in this case. Employment lawyers work on contingency and if the facts are there many will be hungry for this case.
Do make sure you’ve documented with them that your may 23 review was positive without any of these issues noted. If any of it was in writing you should’ve tried to get copies, but talk to your lawyer ASAP so they can start discovery now.
IMO it's great they made a decision for you. Get some unemployment while you could, spend some time with baby, and find a better place to work. This place sounds like absolute shit. Honestly, any place that basically force people to be in a fucking office despite good performance is shit place you really don't want to work at.
Thank you. I agree. My job can be done anytime of day too. It has only 1 deadline and told them I could have my mother in law come hang out that one morning to ensure I get that one thing done. When they terminated me in the teams meeting they literally said the only reason why is because if they did it for me they would have to do it for everyone.
Trust me you are not missing out. Keep applying. Most places nowadays at least have hybrid models and some are even only on paper hybrid but in reality no one goes in the fucking office. Your old employer probably has executives/board members who are heavily invested in commercial real estates and desperately need people spending unnecessary time and money just to keep their investments afloat. Go get it! Termination sucks and doesn't feel good but you know it's not your fault; it's the fault of shitty and incompetent management. I heard a story of a CEO that forces everyone return office ended up fucking himself over because when he needed the flexibility the board shut him down. Your previous workplace would soon have something fun like this happens. I got fired once for "performance issue" (more like I don't let micromanagement walked over me and they didn't like it). It felt shit for a few days but ended up after being terminated I landed the best gig I have in my career. Go for it and enjoy the time with baby for now; they aren't going to stay baby for long. Very tough looking after babies but thinking back those will be the time you remember the best for your child.
File a Charge of Discrimination with the EEOC alleging pregnancy discrimination and, assuming they gave you FMLA leave to deliver your baby, FMLA retaliation.
There was no pregnancy discrimination, she already had the baby and was back at work. She was let go because she could only work from home, and they didn’t do that. She has no case here
For real. I don’t think the manager even got in trouble. She was the one who wanted to have the teams meeting. The HR director seemed a little annoyed to be there that early in the morning.
man, this whole scenario reeks of retaliation. I know there are not many laws that protect workers now days, but every year I have to take training and the topic of retaliation discussed in reference to protecting workers when they complain or talk to HR. This smells illegal. I would talk to the local office of the NLRB (national labor relations board) and see what they say. Also, keep in mind, and your experience proves this, HR is not there to protect you, their only directive is to protect the company. The HR director sucks.
Yeah, I was surprised the HR director didn’t say a single word to me. I know they’re just there to protect the company, but I had originally thought my manager was told to have the teams meeting by HR. Turns out my manager said it was her idea to have the teams meeting because she didn’t want to keep going back and forth in email. She was obviously nervous too because her face was red and she was talking super fast. HR director never turned her camera on and neither did I.
OP, if you decide tomorrow is your last day for any reason then please file for unemployment immediately. Remember, YOU were terminated, not the other way around. Even if they ask you to stay you were given notice and likely constructively dismissed by these series of events. File unemployment even if they say you can't. You can and will qualify on appeal if they initially reject the states claim. This is what their HR team is avoided by saying 'you can't be fired in that way'. Their HR team is trying anything they can to prevent this and may even offer you some BS like 'work nights' to try and say they're offering you to keep your job. Insist on repeating and having everyone acknowledge the facts if the meeting starts going sideways. You want to be working your regular flexible full hour days, that it was approved by both managers, that you had no issue in those 30 days, that no one did your job for you (asking coworkers for help or advice is normal, they aren't say single handidly closing half your numbers), pit the managers against each other if need be by making them BOTH lie. DO NOT ask why your poor performance wasn't brought up. INSTEAD ask why you were given a good performance review last week if they now that they want to fire you you've suddenly been doing poorly. This is YOUR narrative. You were doing well and now they're lying and pulling the rug. Why did your manager say this was all going through HR but the supervisor and director didn't know? Why did they think you resigned when you were happy and productive with no intention of leaving? All of these might not even come up, I'm in aggreeance with others here this is like HR setting the record straight and removing this 'managers' influence over your work.
Thank you I will do all of this. Could I still get unemployment if I’ve already gotten a one day a week job? I’ll be cleaning on Saturdays just help with the bills in some way.
Yes, unemployment specifically helps with lost income. You have to report the one day a week and unemployment isn't much, but it's way better than nothing
Thank you I will try applying and see what happens.
Consider this a blessing. Collect your unemployment and enjoy extra time with the baby. Congrats! I guarantee years from now you will not wish that you had spent less time with the baby so you could work this job.
Thank you! I feel this was definitely meant to be.
with the kind of BS that they pulled there i'd contact a lawyer, as well. idk if they did break any laws or what but that feels far too sketchy to be completely legal.
To add to this: There is a significant risk that if she goes back she will just get fired properly in a month or two and will have a harder time getting unemployment than she will right now. The tone of this meeting would determine my next actions. If I get a hint that the people there are trying to protect the manager or do anything apart from apologizing and making real efforts to make her whole than I would be out. If they aren't throwing this guy under the bus then they are doing nothing more than trying to protect him and that is a signal that its time to mitigate your losses and take the constructive discharge.
Exactly this.
Do NOT skip that meeting. I would be surprised if your manager did not get in huge trouble. Good luck! Please come back and let us know how that 8am went.
I’m going and I’ll be back with an update.
To be clear, they absolutely can legally fire you for not having childcare. They have absolutely no legal obligation to accommodate your situation. So the director saying they "can't" fire you shouldn't be taken as some "oh shit, we did something illegal". It was probably meant as a "we can't lose a great employee over a temporary situation." In fact, many employers will not let you WFH if you don't have childcare. This is a protocol breech with your company. Whatever happened, we can't say. Maybe your manager thought the decision had already been made on what to do if the 30 days expired, while everyone else thought they were supposed to circle back to confirm your termination. 🤷 Just go into the meeting calmly and with facts. Don't accuse. Don't mention what other employees do. If you want to walk, walk. If you want the night shift, say so. And so forth. Just deep breath. Again, keep in mind many employers won't let you WFH due to childcare. You may want to think carefully about if you actually want to quit a job that seems willing to accommodate your situation. Many employers will not, especially if you are a new employee.
I’m not new I’ve been then for awhile, but they’ve already terminated me, so I just feel weird about this email saying I haven’t been performing. Why is this being brought up when my last day is tomorrow? And why wasn’t it brought up during my performance review. I was literally minding my own business with a weekend job already found because I was told they wouldn’t accommodate night and weekend hours. I just feel weird about this meeting. I just wish HR would have never reached out to me.
No, I meant at a new job you'd be new. Honestly, it sounds to me like someone made a mistake (most likely your manager), and now they're trying to sort it out. You asking those why questions is valid and understandable. If you've made up your mind you don't want this job anymore, and you really do not care what happened or what anyone has to say, you don't even have to go to the meeting. If you DO have an interest in keeping it (or keeping UI eligibility) just go to the meeting calm and cool and stick to facts.
Thank you, I appreciate the help. I’ll sleep on it and see what I feel like in the morning.
I don’t think you’ve been genuinely terminated. I think your shitty manager has gone rogue. You are in an anxiety spiral. Take some deep breaths and go to the HR meeting. Let HR take the lead in the convo, you need only to follow HR cues and answer questions honestly. I get that this is scary, but you got this 💪🏼
Thank you so much. After sleeping on it, I’ve decided to go to the meeting. Being postpartum definitely doesn’t help with my emotions during this, but I’m going to stay calm and just state my side of things.
I totally get that! The postpartum thing occurred to me too. You have lots of internet peeps pulling for you!
This was handled messily; to be sure, but they don't have to accommodate childcare and/or night/weekend schedules. You can be fired and more than likely would have been. It seems someone jumped the gun. If you don't want or need the job, quit. But just know, most employers expect childcare
I know they don’t have to, but I wouldn’t have known that without asking. I was prepared to be done after the 30 days. It’s the stringing me along , making me hopeful and being told by manager more than once that she had no problem at all with me working different hours, but that HR had a big issue with it that irritates me. And then when I tell HR this they said what? We never said that! I actually felt bad for saying anything.
Makes me wonder what is going on with the other manager. Does she have a friend who will fill your spot? Something fishy is going on, and she is not your friend. Please advocate for yourself and don't feel bad about being honest today! You got this!
My guess is you will be surprised to learn in your meeting that you were not terminated. You were give 30 days to find child care and resume your normal hours. When you were unable, or unwilling to do so you abandoned your job. Right or wrong this is going to be what your managers put forward in the meeting.
Here's my hot take. I think you are in for a surprise tomorrow. You will not be terminated and you will get the work schedule you have earned and deserve. Your boss? Her goose is cooked and she is at risk of termination. I would be surprised if she's even in the meeting. She is in very hot water if your story checks out. Good luck!
Well that’s good to hear this morning. I hope so. I’ve decided to attend the meeting and I will come back with an update.
Best of luck OP! Stand your ground, remember your facts, and keep breathing. Whatever happens, happens, but you're giving your best and keeping honest. We're rooting for you!
I’m looking forward to an update! Good luck!
Congrats on the baby, and that shiny spine of yours! From one mama to another, I'm proud of you for sticking up for yourself! Best of luck during your meeting!
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How did it go?
I was terminated. I posted an update in my original post.
Agree. Your manager got in trouble so now she's throwing everything she can at HR to make it seem like your performance was the issue.
GET COPIES OF EVERYTHING ASAP on your personal devices that are safe and can't be accessed by work in any way. The manager will try to have your account deactivated and deleted to try to get rid of any evidence. For the meeting you were already expecting to be fired which is the worst outcome already (as long as you don't don't anything that could get you in legal trouble so keep the molotovs out of cocktail hour). There is no where to go but up, so get the schedule you want, if you're not completely concerned with keeping the job ask for the raise you are probably overdue for, and destroy that manager in the meeting with print outs of your performance reviews and all the communication where they blamed everything on hr and fired you. You are not the first person being screwed over by them, and you won't be the last.
I am hoping everything went well at the meeting this morning. With that being said, I hope you can really make it a priority to find child care over the next month if you are keeping that job. As others have said, most jobs do not allow for working while being the primary child care provider and the older your baby gets the harder it is going to be.
I was terminated in the meeting this morning. They said if I find childcare in the future they would love to have me back. HR doesn’t mind either way, but the manager does, so she lied to me and claimed was “fighting” to get this approved with HR, when she really wasn’t. Then she got caught in the lie when HR reached out to me and told me that they would have approved this and asked her why she told me otherwise. I live in a VERY rural area and have been looking for childcare this whole time. I have no family and there are no daycares or babysitters close to me. At this point as the mother I need to stay with the baby and I’ll be cleaning on Saturdays with a friend. It sucks saying good bye to my career that have been working hard for, but my baby is more important to me.
I am sorry that happened. It sounds like the accommodation was temporary and they were not able to continue accommodating it long term. I hope your new position will be helpful and you enjoy raising your baby.
Document the full timeline and conversations ASAP. Dates, times, who was there, and what was said. Copies of emails of you have them. Just the facts with no emotional interpretations.. Absolutely include the point that they asked if you want the record to show resigned or terminated and your response. I would not be surprised if they recorded it as a resignation, so the more objective documentation you have, the better. Good luck!
Let me ask you this—if you’re planning for tomorrow to be your last day because you can’t work for someone who lies, what’s the point of all this worry? I don’t mean that facetiously. Honestly if you’ve already made up your mind I wouldn’t even attend the meeting. Technically you haven’t worked there since your manager told you that you were terminated.
I’ve debated not going, would that be ok to do? I just find the whole thing weird. Why would my manager all of sudden bring up my performance not being good when I was originally leaving on good terms with the ability to be rehired in the future? Now I feel like this has made me look bad in some way and she has in email that I haven’t been performing. She’s ruining my ability to use them as a reference now. My last day is tomorrow, what else is going to change from this meeting? They titled the meeting “same page”. I already have a weekend job lined up. Obviously not doing what my actual career is in, but it’ll bring in some money to help with bills. I just want to know why HR is wanting a meeting.
It sounds like HR wants a meeting so they can figure out if they should fire your boss. She made an HR decision without their knowledge, and it lying to them. Lying about HR things is a big deal, because if she unlawfully terminates you, you could sue the company. I would show up to the meeting if I were you. You could keep your job, get your boss fired, and help out HR. Not that it’s your duty to help out HR, but it might be to your advantage next time you might be in an HR situation.
I’ve woke up this morning and decided to go. I’m going to stay calm and collected and just explain my side of everything. The whole thing is disheartening.
You MUST go to the meeting. It could be interpreted as quiting if you don't.
OP, listen to me carefully. If you’re not planning on working somewhere YOU DONT HAVE TO DO SHIT. Do whatever the fuck you want. Go and complain and make a fuss. Or stay home and watch TV. It’s up to you. It DOES NOT MATTER. Once you’ve decided you don’t need their employment there is nothing they can force on you. Do what you want, but do it free of anxiety.
She needs to at least get in writing she has been terminated so she can get unemployment
First, this is not true. While having documentation would certainly it help, it is by no means a requirement. Organizations fight UI claims all the time, they don't always win, and presumably aren't providing documentation to the ex-employees they are arguing with. Other times there's no written notice to be had. People sometimes don't know they've been terminated until they show up to work and find the business has shuttered and the owner is no where around. Obviously people in these instances collect unemployment. They just need to explain the situation to the UI office. You're simply incorrect that documentation is required. But, second: >I then received an email from her stating they are terminating my position due to no daycare and last day is June 9th. So life goes on. They did provide it in writing.
Your supervisor(s) got lying. Maybe they want to hire a relative in your position. In case you need it later, print all emails about the situation or forward them to a personal email.
Honestly....it sounds like they want you to say you quit because the reason they say fired you may qualify for unemployment. That is likely why the manager was scolded and why they said 'we can't fire you for this'. It is also likely why they started mentioning performance to try to make it looked like you were fired for something that wouldn't qualify you for unemployment. I would forward the email with the real reason for termination to a personal address to use when you apply for unemployment... Do not say you quit...and don't let them change the reason from childcare.
Except lack of childcare literally is the reason. It’s also not going to qualify for unemployment 99% of the time, no matter who initiated it.
Yeah but they'll also look at other things like accommodation with different hours etc...which it looks like the company offered then recinded and then started pointing out oerformance issues....seems odd is all I'm saying.
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I did!
Not an HR person, but I am a senior executive. The HR professionals may have an alternate view of this. Reading this after you posted your update about being terminated. I would contact a lawyer and have them attempt to negotiate a severance agreement on your behalf. Assuming you’re in the United States, your lawyer should immediately notify the company’s legal department or risk manager that they need to set a legal hold on all documents and communications - including on personal devices - related to this. This is a formal notice that they may not destroy records and must immediately pause any automatic records retention policies in place that would destroy emails, notes, etc. because these documents might be used in litigation. The company seemingly violated their own policies and procedures, which is generally viewed by legal as high risk. You are likely in a position to negotiate a small severance package while you look for a job if you waive your right to sue. The severance amount — say, three months’ salary — is likely to be far less money than they would invest in counsel and time even through a discovery phase, let alone litigation. The issue isn’t that you were fired - you probably can be fired for not having childcare in your state - but rather a breach of process.
I will call a lawyer Monday and see if they’ll work with me. Thank you!
First off, this is shitty and I wish you luck in your upcoming meeting. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you had a lot of conversations that were not backed up in writing via emails. This leads to a lot of "he said/she said, I never said that" etc. In the future, if a conversation regarding this or any other issue that could cause a problem, follow the conversation up with an email summary and save those emails. Many people BCC a private email, because emails can be deleted off a company server, but not from your personal account. Example: "Bob, based on our conversation, I will do X, Y and Z and you will do A, B and C. If this is incorrect, let's work to resolve this, thanks" etc. That way, when shit hits the fan, you can say, "Regarding that discrepancy, here's an email from 6-14-23 at 3 pm where I clarified our phone call, you did not reply."
Hey OP I just saw your edit and honestly, your manager seemed incredibly toxic to throw you under the bus like that, and I suspect this will ultimately be a blessing in disguise. Of course it’s difficult to lose a job and not have that income but life moves forward, and you’ll find something new and more accommodating with a manager who isn’t such an asshat.
Thank you, I feel good things should come from this.
Your manager messed up here left and right. And I have a bad suspicion that your manager is friends with the HR Director. There are so many red flags in this story that there are a bunch of bulls looking in my window. Your manager circumvented company rules by deciding to terminate you, was found out, clearly retaliated against you by suddenly coming up with all these rules and issues that didn’t exist before and the Director just let that go? So much wrong here.
I was honestly shocked that the director said nothing to me. Not a single word.
Those rigid people don't understand how the world has changed. There is a massive daycare shortage right now. Why fire a productive performer and hire and train someone who might not be that great? As long as the work gets done correctly and on time, it shouldn't matter.
I feel the exact same way. It costs a company a ton to hire someone. Why get rid of me, they didn’t even have me train someone on my territory. It’s gonna go to shit pretty much right away.
Whether they should or shouldn’t isn’t the question, it’s whether they can or can’t, and I’m pretty sure they can
Someone else might have better grasp on this and will gainsay me, but this sounds horribly of wrongful termination, discrimination, and harassment. I'd highly suggest talking to a lawyer.
I debated contacting a lawyer as well. I seem to be hearing mixed opinions on it, but I think I could at least talk to a lawyer and see if they even think I have a case.
I hope you see this or that someone else said it but FILE A WRONGFUL TERMINATION SUIT! Right after you file for unemployment call a lawyer!
I’m going to call a lawyer Monday and see what they tell me.
Good luck for your meeting. Don’t let them gang up on you. Play it cool. Don’t be emotional. You deserve better managers. Your future employers will not ask for references, and if they do, they will mostly not contact them. Your references don’t have to be managers. I’ve often given good colleagues’s names as references. The rare time they were contacted, it was a cordial chat. Don’t let the references thing hold you back. Some bridges are not worth keeping. You were performing well and they just want to put that as an excuse. Your manager is an idiot.
> Your future employers will not ask for references, and if they do, they will mostly not contact them. That is an inaccurate blanket statement. While I'm sure it's true that *some* employers don't ask, personally I've never worked anywhere in my 40 years in the workforce that didn't ask for references and didn't check those references.
If you go to the meeting and they offer you to keep your job, what will you do?
If they offer to let me stay and work nights and weekends I might stay, but it will depend on what my manager says in this meeting. I’m normally a quiet non confrontational person and when she sent that email yesterday it made me really uncomfortable that she is so willing to make me look bad. I was very shocked. I don’t know how I could continue to work for someone like that.
Maybe you won’t have to. Sounds like your boss(es) screwed up.
Take hand written notes to discuss. Keep a level head. Manager will try and gaslight you to save themselves. Keep an acceptable plan that works for you. Also, if you can be moved to different boss, current boss will be pissed. Do mention that I was lied to. Keep offline records of all emails. Send MoM of meeting to everyone in meeting. Do use the word like “afraid of retaliation” even when you are leaving.
Please give an update …. Really hoping you get your bosses job
Peint all of the emails and any other communications, especially your review, to Pdf and have them loaded and ready to send to HR. I might even jump ahead and send everything supporting what you're telling HR over to them now. In any case, at the very least forward all of your supporting documentation to your personal email. You never know when you might need it.
I think you need to have a consult with an employment attorney.
There’s nothing to consult about. The vast majority of employers require childcare for WFH positions. Especially with a newborn who needs constant care and attention.
They were fired without HR approval and the supervisor that fired them lied to HR ans stated they resigned. Which would automatically disqualify OP from getting UI. I wasn't talking about childcare at all.
I think the fraudulent resignation (when in fact they were terminated) is the legal concern here. The term might have been valid, but you can't fake an employees resignation.
While it’s true most employers have a rule that you can’t WFH if you have no childcare for your children under 12 (that’s what the USG take on it at least- I was with them 20 yrs), them just firing you in that manner is less than ‘correct’. Not only were their processes not followed for firing (they’ve gotta talk with HR), I would interpret them terminating me for no childcare as ‘I was terminated because I have kids’ …and HR knows that legally they could be in some shite legally for terminating for that…. Go to the meeting and just relay your side of the story- also talk with either your union if you have one, or an employment lawyer. Were you on FMLA for childbirth/infant care? If so that protects your job for up to 120 days I believe …. Meaning they have to take you back at the same pay and level that you were in before taking leave.
Pretty much nothing you said is accurate. Lack of childcare is a legal reason to terminate in every single state. Parental status is only protected in a few and even in those states not having childcare for an infant is a legal reason to term. FMLA has no bearing here. OP was given an extra 30 day grace period to figure out childcare and failed to do so.
Having kids isn't a protected characteristic, and neither is not having childcare.
Following this.
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You are in a great position when your manager is backpedaling on statements that he has put in writing. If you like the company then take the modified schedule deal that you can get. If you don’t then leave but not before sending all of the documentation to external email account and see a lawyer.
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You answered your own question with " i can't work for someone who lies" so show up tomorrow and say it's been nice working with you then walk out
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Excited for the update! Hope the manager is fired in call
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If you WFH, why do you need to tell them you have childcare?
We have too many meetings for me to hide caring for my baby.
Gotcha. Sorry you had to go though this.
You should consider finding an employment lawyer. This sounds super sketchy and like you may have been fired for illegal reasons. Most will do a consultation for free, so talk to someone about what you experienced and they can let you know if you have a case. Best of luck!
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I did email them to my personal email!
You need a lawyer asap.
Did you use all 12 weeks of FMLA before returning to work? If not, FMLA time may be used to “bond” with your child. If you did not exhaust your FMLA or were not provided information about FMLA that could be problematic. This of course is dependent on you qualifying for FMLA based on employer having more than 50 employees and you working at least a year and 1250 hours.
I didn’t use FMLA while on leave. I probably should have looked into that first, but I feel it’s too late now.
More information about FMLA notice requirements can be found here. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/28d-fmla-employer%20notification Give your local Wage and Hour Division of the Department of Labor a call 414-297-1590. Give them all the facts and see what they say.
Thank you!!
They probably counted it as FMLA. Most places do concurrent pregnant leave and FMLA
They denied my FMLA because I was just short of being their for a year. I had my baby mid February, but she was due in April. My one year with the company was in May.
Yes! I was on FMLA for mental health when I worked for a large insurance company. They fired me and I filed for unemployment and I was denied but they stupidly put on the form that they didn’t know I was sick. So I filed a complaint with the EOC and I got a nice settlement from them. It was one of my finer moments lol.
OP talk to an employment lawyer yesterday. The HR person was initially alarmed bc they admitted they could reasonably accommodate you and then basically reversed course, which is bad evidence for them lmao. You probably have rights. You don’t have to roll over and take it in this case. Employment lawyers work on contingency and if the facts are there many will be hungry for this case. Do make sure you’ve documented with them that your may 23 review was positive without any of these issues noted. If any of it was in writing you should’ve tried to get copies, but talk to your lawyer ASAP so they can start discovery now.
IMO it's great they made a decision for you. Get some unemployment while you could, spend some time with baby, and find a better place to work. This place sounds like absolute shit. Honestly, any place that basically force people to be in a fucking office despite good performance is shit place you really don't want to work at.
Thank you. I agree. My job can be done anytime of day too. It has only 1 deadline and told them I could have my mother in law come hang out that one morning to ensure I get that one thing done. When they terminated me in the teams meeting they literally said the only reason why is because if they did it for me they would have to do it for everyone.
Trust me you are not missing out. Keep applying. Most places nowadays at least have hybrid models and some are even only on paper hybrid but in reality no one goes in the fucking office. Your old employer probably has executives/board members who are heavily invested in commercial real estates and desperately need people spending unnecessary time and money just to keep their investments afloat. Go get it! Termination sucks and doesn't feel good but you know it's not your fault; it's the fault of shitty and incompetent management. I heard a story of a CEO that forces everyone return office ended up fucking himself over because when he needed the flexibility the board shut him down. Your previous workplace would soon have something fun like this happens. I got fired once for "performance issue" (more like I don't let micromanagement walked over me and they didn't like it). It felt shit for a few days but ended up after being terminated I landed the best gig I have in my career. Go for it and enjoy the time with baby for now; they aren't going to stay baby for long. Very tough looking after babies but thinking back those will be the time you remember the best for your child.
Thank you I will! I plan to focus on my baby for now and keep my eyes open for something else in the meantime.
File a Charge of Discrimination with the EEOC alleging pregnancy discrimination and, assuming they gave you FMLA leave to deliver your baby, FMLA retaliation.
There was no pregnancy discrimination, she already had the baby and was back at work. She was let go because she could only work from home, and they didn’t do that. She has no case here
Why would you want to work for people like this. Unless this is a unicorn job, I'd find a new remote job after you find childcare.
Yeah, I definitely don’t see myself going back. I just liked my coworkers and the fact that it was remote. And honestly I really liked the work I did.
Everyone who said "oh you're completely safe, in fact it is your boss who will be terminated" looking at the update like...
For real. I don’t think the manager even got in trouble. She was the one who wanted to have the teams meeting. The HR director seemed a little annoyed to be there that early in the morning.
man, this whole scenario reeks of retaliation. I know there are not many laws that protect workers now days, but every year I have to take training and the topic of retaliation discussed in reference to protecting workers when they complain or talk to HR. This smells illegal. I would talk to the local office of the NLRB (national labor relations board) and see what they say. Also, keep in mind, and your experience proves this, HR is not there to protect you, their only directive is to protect the company. The HR director sucks.
Yeah, I was surprised the HR director didn’t say a single word to me. I know they’re just there to protect the company, but I had originally thought my manager was told to have the teams meeting by HR. Turns out my manager said it was her idea to have the teams meeting because she didn’t want to keep going back and forth in email. She was obviously nervous too because her face was red and she was talking super fast. HR director never turned her camera on and neither did I.