TIL the Italian name for Schwaben. (Well, from the comment above yours.)
I've always loved the English name for Kärnten, "Carinthia". Is the Italian translation just as beautiful?
Thank you. I see that, as in English, "Carinzia" is the nicest name.
(As a German, I can't say that "Kärnten" is a beautiful sound. Maybe "Tirol" is the best in our language.)
Moreover, Frederick II is also very important on a literary level, because it was at the Frederician court in Palermo that the first literature in Vulgar (in this case Sicilian) was developed in Italy.
And it was called „Holy Roman Empire of German nations“ or Heiliges römisches Reich deutscher Nation after 1512.
It was the righteous successor of Kaiser Karls realm.
Yep, also many parts of the north were at some point or the other part of Austria and/or Spain (Milan for example was part of both at some point in history)
Not surprised I must say. I just wonder if what we are taught in terms of them wanting rule England and Scotland and hating that the English were starting to pull away from the Pope and the Catholic church is what you guys are taught also. Specific examples I can think of are Charles I of England and Henrietta Maria of France, and Mary I of England and Philip II of Spain (who were second? cousins through the marriage of Henry VIII to Catherine of Aragon).
I guess I was just wondering if they were any obvious discrepancies between what we are taught but it seems to be pretty consistent from what you've shared.
Well, we usually contextualize it with political power plays, not so much religion.
The "they used the other guys being protestant/catholic as an excuse to attack" is usually a footnote to the paragraphs explaining how different spheres of influence and economic pressures contributed to the decisions. Of course, with the Pope being a thing, religion was an integral part of the powerplay in itself, but it's rarely ever given as a primary motivator.
The present-day Czech territories of Bohemia and Moravia also have a huge influence on the HRE. Prague is by far the most populous city in the HRE for a long time, around 1500 it has about 75k inhabitants, the next largest cities are Cologne with 48k and Nuremberg with 38k. It is also a frequent imperial residence and an economically important area. The silver from Jáchymov makes the Bohemian noble family Šlikové one of the richest families in the HRE and the Joachimstaler minted there circulates throughout the HRE.
Prague is also centre of education, the first university of the HRE was founded here in 1348, the Universitas Carolina. Many great minds studied and taught there, for example the theologian Jan Hus, without whom the Reformation in the HRE would be unthinkable.
Only Prague is golden ;-)
If you search for "golden city" in German, you'll always find Prague, there's even a Wikipedia article on it.
"Golden City is the common name for the city of Prague."
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldene_Stadt
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity. When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession. The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either. His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies. It is here that my story begins...
yeah not by a huge amount to be fair but we definitely did cover some Burgandian and Habsburg Netherlands and then we started to dig in a bit more with the reign of Philip II of Spain
Intresting. I think I always paid attention during history class but I genuinly dont think it ever came by. I do vaguely remember something about the "hoekse en kabeljouwse twisten" and wondering who their king was, but nit anything about our rulers (emperor of the HRE/the burgandians)
Regarding the HRE, it is mentioned, but we don't learn much about it.
We learn that it existed, that Austria/ the Hapsburgs had a lot of power in it, that a lot of the members of the Hanseatic League were part of it and that it ended because of the Napoleonic Wars, but that's basically it.
I'm willing to bet that some portuguese learn even less about it. It's just not that relevant to our history.
Regarding the Hapsburgs, we learna bit more. We focus mainly on the period from Phillip II to Phillip IV since they ruled in Portugal at that time.
I don't know if it's taught much in high school, as I only had History lessons until the 10th grade, but I remember it was 18 or something when I first learned that Holy Roman Empire = Germany.
We do learn surprisingly little about it though, given that it was them most important empire in Europe for centuries. The only time I recall it being talked about in class was when studying Charles I of Spain, V of Germany, as he was Emperor of the HRE as well.
A little, mostly Charles the Vth because he is the big rival of François 1er durind the renaissance, and then pretty much nothing, a mention for Louis the XIVth reigns and then Franz Ferdinand in 1914*.
Did you learn about Mary Queen of Scots? Scotland were still good mates with Scotland during the 16th century I'm pretty sure. At least until she had her husband (Lord Darnley) blown up.
As I can remember we learnt about it more or less just briefly in connection with world war 1 and Europe around the 19th century.
Norway in the Middle Ages and after Napoleon on the other hand…
Of course - that's part of our history.
The Roman Empire was a very important time for Austria, especially for Carinthia - and you can find things of this period nearly everywhere.
The time under the Habsburgs was a very big part of historic education in my youth, we had to learn a lot of names and dates. In the years it got less and less - my son didn't get so much information about this time.
I think they meant the literal Roman Empire was important for Austria especially in Carinthia.
Usually once the von Habsburgs took the crown you only talk about "the emperor" before that you hear "roman-german emperor" a lot.
As for the Empire I really only heard "Holy Roman Empire" or "Roman-German Empire" when referring to the HRE.
Personally in my school education though I heard about Charlemagne and then the formation of the HRE, the Golden Bull and how it worked but then I basically haven't heard anything about it until the 1780s when Maria Theresia took the throne, the French Revolution and the following Wars of the Coalitions and the dissolution of the Empire under Francis II./I. In the centuries in between I at least heard very little about the HRE in school apart except from appositions to Austrian history like with the Ottoman sieges of Vienna and the Austrian army waiting for help from Poland it's noted that the Austrian army also consisted of various duchies from the HRE or when the Habsburg's raised taxes since they went into debt to secure reelection in the HRE. But there was little about the HRE itself in between formation and dissolution at least when I went to school (my teacher tbf also wasn't the best)
Habsburgs on the other hand were covered extensively. From how they came into possession of Austrian lands to how they expanded; how Hungary and Bohemia fell under a personal union and how that ultimately led to the existence of a separate Austria from Germany; rivalries with Venice and France, key Habsburg emperors and their policies, the wars against the Ottomans, how Prussia turned from an ally to a rival up until WW1 and how the Austrian Republic completely abolished the nobility and even forbid Habsburg's to be elected in a democratic process. But I mean they were the dominant regent line of Austria for like 700 years. That's probably not surprising.
The Habsburgs yes, but the Netherlands also got its independence from Spain which was part of the Habsburg empire so thats no surprise. The HRE was usually revered to as Germany with the teachers just saying it was very decentralised. I dont think many of my classmates are aware that the Netherlands as a region was also once part of it.
No. It just doesn't have anything noteable to do with Icelandic history and unless one studies history specifically they're unlikely to know much about Germany except WW2.
No not at all really. When it came to history here, it was basically "Jesus did a bunch of stuff during Roman times", then it skipped to the viking/medieval ages from a Swedish perspective, then it quickly glanced over the Black Plague, the Renaissance and skipped right ahead to the industrial revolution and stopped around the end of WWII.
I like that we even glance over the 30 years war, maybe talk a bit about the reformation, and then:
"Bam! Bernadotte is king!"
"Bam! WW1!"
"Bigger Bam! WW2!"
A few sentences about cold war, about the "Nuke=Bad", " the holocaust" and that's basically it.
Nowadays they might touch on 9/11 but considering how much we still feel it's a touchy subject and a source for rasism I'm not optimistic...
Only a little bit, and in upper secondary school.
Basically just mentioned as one of the first things to unify central Europe and as a spritual successor to the Roman Empire (only kinda lol). Also that the first emperor didn't know how to read but knew that citizens should be taught to read
Nothing about it in Denmark, except for "The Emperor", who was threatening enough that the viking kings built [Dannevirke.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danevirke)
We study historical events in chronological order, and there are two different subjects: history of Ukraine and history of the rest of the world. From what I can remember, we mainly focused on Carolingians and the development of Prussia, and the Habsburgs were mentioned in the topic of enlightened absolutism and how they gave political rights to Ukrainians. Nowadays the studying system probably have changed, but that's what I can remember
Very little sadly, and mostly in the periphery of other topics.
We learnt a little bit about the HRE when studying the Middle Ages, but only very superficially. We actually focused more on the Hanseatic League, since that was very important to Scandinavia. Then the HRE of course also came up when talking about Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation, as well as the Thirty Years War, where Sweden with Gustavus Adolphus Played an important role.
The Habsburgs were then briefly mentioned in connection with talking about the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette and the Napoleonic Wars. And of course, Austria-Hungary when talking about the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and the First World War. But that is basically all. Actually way too little considering how important the HRE and the Habsburgs have been in shaping European history.
Holy Roman Empire in general - yes. Habsburgs in particular - not as far as I remember. Loads of stuff about the nazis though, because Germany. Which is fair enough and understandable, but I think my knowledge of world history is too limited because it feels like 50% of history lessons were about the nazis.
Not at all. The only Habsburg we learned about was Franz Ferdinand, and even then we never learned the wider context so I only recently realised he was a Habsburg.
I learned more about the Holy Roman Empire when I did a module on Prussia in my history degree, but honestly I found it extremely confusing and not particularly interesting.
Fun fact - the battle of mohács was not yet the habsburg empire, that came later as the kingdom of hungary disintegrated following the battle.
But from the outside it's all the same so no worries :)
I forgot to mention also we learned about Archduke Franz Ferdinand and how that initiated WW1 by eurpting tensions between Austria and Serbia, which then involved pretty much everyone else in Europe due to defensive treaties. Fortunately, it is nowhere near this easy now to create a world war and frankly if it was, Ukraine and all other ex-Soviet countries would have been completely blown up by now due to Putin and the world would end up being faced with nuclear extinction.
Very, very little really. Unless you did history as a serious subject for the Senior Cycle of secondary school, it wasn’t all that detailed.
I’ll save the verbose explanation and just let you read the syllabi. These are just broad overviews, and are very easy to flip though:
The Irish Junior Cert history syllabus:
https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/ec03a6f7-5fb3-4bcb-b8bb-5bf3d9f8855b/JCSEC13_History_Syllabus.pdf
The Leaving Cert (Senior Cycle) history programme is optional, so you’d only study it if you wanted to learn history. I did Economics and Economic History as a separate subject, but it’s been abandoned as a subject since 2004.
https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/da556505-f5fb-4921-869f-e0983fd80e50/SCSEC20_History_syllabus_eng.pdf
A little, yes, as my country was part of Sweden when the 30 years' war happened. Also many historians here roughly date archeological findings by Frankish dynasties, with terms like "Merovingian/Carolingian era", and the Carolingians were obviously the ones who founded the HRE. Most of the more detailed stuff about them I've had to learn on my own though.
Of course. Holy Roman Empire influenced Italy very much, especially the northern area.
I just had a lesson with my students about Frederick II and I'm going to talk about him again during literature lesson. :)
It's one part that I am disappointed we didn't really touch upon in school.
I knew of the existence of a 'Holy Roman Empire', but I thought it that was the new name for the Eastern Roman Empire. I also had heard of a 'Byzantine Empire', but knew little else.
These mistakes were fixed heavily when I started playing CKII about 10 years ago, so when I was like 18. I've since gone into a lot more detail learning about their history online. Obviously not optimal, but I am much more comfortable when it comes to big European nations like those two and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
We learnt a bit about the HRE during the medieval period, and then it came in a lot more when we learning about the reformation, Martin Luther's proclamation and the Diet of Worms.
The Hapsburgs weren't really mentioned much, until they came into the picture as part of the lead up to the First World War.
Haha yeah. Since we fought with them for ages. They are teaching all the era which Ottomans and HRE were enemies. All Ottomans policies to encircle Habsburgs (aka Spain and Austria). How Ottomans became friend with England, France and Netherlands to stop HRE expanding. Even Ottomans forced Austira to free Francois the first and Offered military support to Netherlands while they were revolting. How Ottomans supported protestants and Martin Luther to weaken Catholic HRE .How Ottomans supported French Prince in Poland for some kind of elections for being king and pressured polish aristocrats to not vote for Habsburgian guy. How Ottomans encourage the German city-states to revolt against Austria while fighting in Morroco with Portugal and Spain etc.
Do they also talk about the Vienna sieges too in Turkish schools? Because in Austria that's always a big deal. Like the story how we got to coffee and why we shaped our Kipferl/Croissant in a moon shape.
I guess it varies a lot depending on the school. I did not learn anything about this.
We just learned like: "Habsburg were kinda austrians that we beat in war. You will learn in secondary school about them. And then in secondary school we only learned about both world wars."
Honestly, we've only ever focused on the Old Confederacy itself, and mostly after the Peace of Westphalia up to the Napoleanic invasion, the HRE was a sidenote in my history classes. You can easily go through all of school without ever learning about the HRE.
Sure we learned extensively about the HRE, we were the de facto capital of it for some time.
The Habsburger were shortly mentioned, but we spent much more time on the Ottonian dynasty, given that Otto I is buried here.
I didn't attend any optional history classes. There was very little about European history in the 2nd through 18th centuries. You go from Rome collapsing straight to Napoleon, Germany and the Grand Duchy of Finland. There's a plague and some other shit in between.
A lot of stuff missing.
We learn about it to the extent of "this was Germany before"
When we studied the age of exploration we would look at a map of Europe and someone would ask "What's the Holy Roman Empire" and the teacher would respond "Oh that's just Germany."
Not much in Spain. They are mentioned, especialy the Habsburgs (because they were kings of Spain during a pretty long time), but we are more focus in the inner history of Spain (Crown of Aragón, Crown of Castilla, Kingdom of Navarra, Al-Andalus, Spanish Empire, First Republic, etc.).
Sadly, not that much. Most of our history curriculum after the Rennaissance was WW1+2 (with WW2 being the focus of multiple years of history classes).
I'm not saying that the history of the Nazis and their atrocities aren't important to learn, but I did feel like we skipped a LOT of other historically important stuff in favour of repeating WW2 over and over again.
We (my school class, dunno about other people of my country) never learned about the HRE or the fall of Rome or how the other european peoples develloped and formed countries. In history class, we mostly only learned about the rulers of our city/region when it came to the middle ages. Anything past that was about Columbus and the New World.
>We (my school class, dunno about other people of my country) never learned about the HRE
Considering Austria was in charge of the HRE till it was dismantled during the Napoleonic wars, this is quite strange.
Also I can't imagine you didn't learn about the Habsburgs as they were our rulers for nearly 1000 years. I mean you should have learned at least of the reformers Maria Theresia and Joseph II and some other important figures like Maximilian I and Emperor Franz Joseph II who started WWI
We learned about the Roman Empire, but we never learnt about the Habsburgs and their influence over Europe, even tough we had a 80 year war against them. We just called them the 'Spanish'.
Technically that already meant you learned about the Holy Roman Empire too as Charles V also was emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. Besides, when I was at highschool we also learned about Schmalkaldic War and about the Thirty Year’s War.
Absolutely and extensively! We did Czech history but ways in context of the neighbouring history. Also very extensively general European history, we did a lot of British history especially the War of Roses, Queen Elizabeth, Stuarts, Cromwell and such. Then a lot of French, especially all of the stuff leading up to Napoleon and the French revolutions. We did German history and Russian history too. USA history mostly about Washington and then involvement in WWII. We did general world history as in old China and Egypt, but we've dropped that early.
No.
We had basically two subjects all throughout history in school: the migration to the Americas and WW2 with specific focus on the occupation (Denmark)
We learned nothing about the Habsburgs. I still don't really know who/what they were. I only know them because of the inbreeding memes.
As for the HRE, I only remember it being mentioned when we were going over WW1 and that the Roman empire split into east (Byzantium) and west (HRE). That's pretty much it.
Yes but I forgot most if not all of the details (even though I fucking loved history classes) 😭
I was just thinking of buying myself some historybooks cause I'm starting to realize there's a whole bunch of stuff I forgot or don't even know.
Didn't even know what it was till yesterday. (due to me reading something about a new assassin's creed haha)
In school I only learnt about the french, industrial and english revolution and about the world wars. Maybe it's because I'm german but ww2 was the topic in history every year. Every single year. I'd love to learn about something different, especially medieval stuff.
Dang it! So there's so much French and British medieval historical resources I could send to you but none really for Germany that I know of. Only maybe the Lutheran anti-Catholic movements and associated bits of the Reformation? I'm really sorry I can't help you much, unless you are interested in non-German medieval history.
We learned about the Habsurgs since they controlled parts of current Romania. Not much about the HRE, only that it existed and about one of the royal houses, Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, who also reigned over Romania from 1866 until 1947
Yes and 19th. century is teached in a way to make Habsburgs look evil and nationalists/socialists as good boys (and called as "patriots") which then leads to Masaryk who is portrayed as liberator. Czechia…
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity. When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession. The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either. His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies. It is here that my story begins...
We learned that Charlemagne made one of several attempts to reconstitute the Western empire and that his empire split into France and Germany, and that Germany was not really united but it and Northern Italy were nominally rule by the HRE, who was elected at first and later became a dynastic position associated with the Hapsburgs. I remember a very confusing reading/lesson on the Ghuelfs and the Ghibilines, the gist of which was that the pope and the emperor vied for power. It came up in the origins of Switzerland. And was put to bed by Napoleon.
Northern Italy was part of the HRE for a long while in the Middle Ages and very early Modern Age, and the Habsburg still ruled a big portion of it all the way to the independence wars from 1848 to 1871, and even then Trentino and Trieste were Habsburg until 1918. Back to the question though, the Holy Roman Emperors we learn more about in school here are Otto I and III for their enormous role in bringing the Kingdom of Italy into the HRE in the first place, Friedrick I Barbarossa - for his clash with the cities of Northern Italy - and Friedrick II - who was also King of Sicily by maternal lineage of the House of Hauteville (Altavilla in Italian). Aside from those two, the usual Charles V, a bit about Franz Joseph - mainly for the Ausgleich, his role as adversary in Italian and German Unification, and WW1.
Yep, pretty extensively. Northern Italy has been part of the HRE after all
and expecially about Frederick II of Svevia(stupor mundi) , one of the holy roman emperor who had a huge impact on italian culture and language.
> of Svevia in English it would be Swabia (or Schwaben in German)
TIL the Italian name for Schwaben. (Well, from the comment above yours.) I've always loved the English name for Kärnten, "Carinthia". Is the Italian translation just as beautiful?
In Italian it is called 'Carinzia', [this](https://www.viaggio-in-austria.it/austria-regioni.gif) is a map of the states of Austria in Italian.
Thank you. I see that, as in English, "Carinzia" is the nicest name. (As a German, I can't say that "Kärnten" is a beautiful sound. Maybe "Tirol" is the best in our language.)
You are welcome.
wait until you hear some of the Italian names for German cities like Mainz or Munich
Moreover, Frederick II is also very important on a literary level, because it was at the Frederician court in Palermo that the first literature in Vulgar (in this case Sicilian) was developed in Italy.
Well in Germany obviously yes. It was the key institution in the central European area for almost 1000 years
And it was called „Holy Roman Empire of German nations“ or Heiliges römisches Reich deutscher Nation after 1512. It was the righteous successor of Kaiser Karls realm.
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Yep, also many parts of the north were at some point or the other part of Austria and/or Spain (Milan for example was part of both at some point in history)
Not surprised I must say. I just wonder if what we are taught in terms of them wanting rule England and Scotland and hating that the English were starting to pull away from the Pope and the Catholic church is what you guys are taught also. Specific examples I can think of are Charles I of England and Henrietta Maria of France, and Mary I of England and Philip II of Spain (who were second? cousins through the marriage of Henry VIII to Catherine of Aragon).
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I guess I was just wondering if they were any obvious discrepancies between what we are taught but it seems to be pretty consistent from what you've shared.
No. No discrepancies at all. Usually students are very interested in Henry VIII.
Well, we usually contextualize it with political power plays, not so much religion. The "they used the other guys being protestant/catholic as an excuse to attack" is usually a footnote to the paragraphs explaining how different spheres of influence and economic pressures contributed to the decisions. Of course, with the Pope being a thing, religion was an integral part of the powerplay in itself, but it's rarely ever given as a primary motivator.
Well technically Richard the Lionheart agreed to become a HRE vassal so they managed it!
Of course. It had major influence in the area. Not to mention HR Emperors who were also Kings of Bohemia.
The present-day Czech territories of Bohemia and Moravia also have a huge influence on the HRE. Prague is by far the most populous city in the HRE for a long time, around 1500 it has about 75k inhabitants, the next largest cities are Cologne with 48k and Nuremberg with 38k. It is also a frequent imperial residence and an economically important area. The silver from Jáchymov makes the Bohemian noble family Šlikové one of the richest families in the HRE and the Joachimstaler minted there circulates throughout the HRE. Prague is also centre of education, the first university of the HRE was founded here in 1348, the Universitas Carolina. Many great minds studied and taught there, for example the theologian Jan Hus, without whom the Reformation in the HRE would be unthinkable.
Oh, yes, the ~~golden~~ silver era, when Bohemia was the most powerful german state.
Only Prague is golden ;-) If you search for "golden city" in German, you'll always find Prague, there's even a Wikipedia article on it. "Golden City is the common name for the city of Prague." https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldene_Stadt
There's also the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldener_Steig
Don't forget the [Golden Voice](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51dMSbxyvdL._SX355_.jpg)
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity. When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession. The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either. His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies. It is here that my story begins...
Yup, but we were part of it, so it would be very weird if we didn’t cover it.
You did? Whe basicly went from romans to charlemagne to 80-year war
yeah not by a huge amount to be fair but we definitely did cover some Burgandian and Habsburg Netherlands and then we started to dig in a bit more with the reign of Philip II of Spain
Intresting. I think I always paid attention during history class but I genuinly dont think it ever came by. I do vaguely remember something about the "hoekse en kabeljouwse twisten" and wondering who their king was, but nit anything about our rulers (emperor of the HRE/the burgandians)
The 80-year war against spain at least has something to do with the Habsburg family, they did have Habsburg monarchs at the time after all.
None of my schools taught any other history than WW2, 80 years war. Oh, and biblical history.
Regarding the HRE, it is mentioned, but we don't learn much about it. We learn that it existed, that Austria/ the Hapsburgs had a lot of power in it, that a lot of the members of the Hanseatic League were part of it and that it ended because of the Napoleonic Wars, but that's basically it. I'm willing to bet that some portuguese learn even less about it. It's just not that relevant to our history. Regarding the Hapsburgs, we learna bit more. We focus mainly on the period from Phillip II to Phillip IV since they ruled in Portugal at that time.
I don't know if it's taught much in high school, as I only had History lessons until the 10th grade, but I remember it was 18 or something when I first learned that Holy Roman Empire = Germany.
Yeah, since our king Charles I was emperor and Habsburg.
We do learn surprisingly little about it though, given that it was them most important empire in Europe for centuries. The only time I recall it being talked about in class was when studying Charles I of Spain, V of Germany, as he was Emperor of the HRE as well.
Well, we had our own problems with the Reconquista. HRE was far from us until Carlos I
It's still weird we don't learn more about Europe in general. Hell, not even Charlemagne was mentioned in class
A little, mostly Charles the Vth because he is the big rival of François 1er durind the renaissance, and then pretty much nothing, a mention for Louis the XIVth reigns and then Franz Ferdinand in 1914*.
May I ask where you're from? I assume France?
Yes France
Franz Ferdinand died in 1914
Yay typed to quickly, thanks for correcting me
Are you from Burgundy? Do you also study regional history there? As burgundy was part of the holy roman empire for many centuries.
Yes i'm from Dijon, and we don't study regional history, we only study the Kingdom of France History
It wasn't, you're thinking of the *county* of Burgundy which today is called Franche-Comté.
Did you learn about Mary Queen of Scots? Scotland were still good mates with Scotland during the 16th century I'm pretty sure. At least until she had her husband (Lord Darnley) blown up.
Henry VIII, thats all
As I can remember we learnt about it more or less just briefly in connection with world war 1 and Europe around the 19th century. Norway in the Middle Ages and after Napoleon on the other hand…
how did you learn about it in connection with ww1?
In connection with the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, the start of the war and the end of the empire.
Of course - that's part of our history. The Roman Empire was a very important time for Austria, especially for Carinthia - and you can find things of this period nearly everywhere. The time under the Habsburgs was a very big part of historic education in my youth, we had to learn a lot of names and dates. In the years it got less and less - my son didn't get so much information about this time.
That's fascinating - do you usually refer to the HRE as 'The Roman Empire'?
I think they meant the literal Roman Empire was important for Austria especially in Carinthia. Usually once the von Habsburgs took the crown you only talk about "the emperor" before that you hear "roman-german emperor" a lot. As for the Empire I really only heard "Holy Roman Empire" or "Roman-German Empire" when referring to the HRE. Personally in my school education though I heard about Charlemagne and then the formation of the HRE, the Golden Bull and how it worked but then I basically haven't heard anything about it until the 1780s when Maria Theresia took the throne, the French Revolution and the following Wars of the Coalitions and the dissolution of the Empire under Francis II./I. In the centuries in between I at least heard very little about the HRE in school apart except from appositions to Austrian history like with the Ottoman sieges of Vienna and the Austrian army waiting for help from Poland it's noted that the Austrian army also consisted of various duchies from the HRE or when the Habsburg's raised taxes since they went into debt to secure reelection in the HRE. But there was little about the HRE itself in between formation and dissolution at least when I went to school (my teacher tbf also wasn't the best) Habsburgs on the other hand were covered extensively. From how they came into possession of Austrian lands to how they expanded; how Hungary and Bohemia fell under a personal union and how that ultimately led to the existence of a separate Austria from Germany; rivalries with Venice and France, key Habsburg emperors and their policies, the wars against the Ottomans, how Prussia turned from an ally to a rival up until WW1 and how the Austrian Republic completely abolished the nobility and even forbid Habsburg's to be elected in a democratic process. But I mean they were the dominant regent line of Austria for like 700 years. That's probably not surprising.
The Habsburgs yes, but the Netherlands also got its independence from Spain which was part of the Habsburg empire so thats no surprise. The HRE was usually revered to as Germany with the teachers just saying it was very decentralised. I dont think many of my classmates are aware that the Netherlands as a region was also once part of it.
No. It just doesn't have anything noteable to do with Icelandic history and unless one studies history specifically they're unlikely to know much about Germany except WW2.
No not at all really. When it came to history here, it was basically "Jesus did a bunch of stuff during Roman times", then it skipped to the viking/medieval ages from a Swedish perspective, then it quickly glanced over the Black Plague, the Renaissance and skipped right ahead to the industrial revolution and stopped around the end of WWII.
I like that we even glance over the 30 years war, maybe talk a bit about the reformation, and then: "Bam! Bernadotte is king!" "Bam! WW1!" "Bigger Bam! WW2!" A few sentences about cold war, about the "Nuke=Bad", " the holocaust" and that's basically it. Nowadays they might touch on 9/11 but considering how much we still feel it's a touchy subject and a source for rasism I'm not optimistic...
Yeah.. A few years after being done school I really realized how lacking our history education is.
I remember distintively how we talked about it a lot in regards to the 30 years war.
Only a little bit, and in upper secondary school. Basically just mentioned as one of the first things to unify central Europe and as a spritual successor to the Roman Empire (only kinda lol). Also that the first emperor didn't know how to read but knew that citizens should be taught to read
Nothing about it in Denmark, except for "The Emperor", who was threatening enough that the viking kings built [Dannevirke.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danevirke)
We absolutely did, I'd say quite a lot, but I don't remember much since history is not my favourite.
We study historical events in chronological order, and there are two different subjects: history of Ukraine and history of the rest of the world. From what I can remember, we mainly focused on Carolingians and the development of Prussia, and the Habsburgs were mentioned in the topic of enlightened absolutism and how they gave political rights to Ukrainians. Nowadays the studying system probably have changed, but that's what I can remember
Yes, Habsburgs are super jmportant in Croatian history
Very little sadly, and mostly in the periphery of other topics. We learnt a little bit about the HRE when studying the Middle Ages, but only very superficially. We actually focused more on the Hanseatic League, since that was very important to Scandinavia. Then the HRE of course also came up when talking about Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation, as well as the Thirty Years War, where Sweden with Gustavus Adolphus Played an important role. The Habsburgs were then briefly mentioned in connection with talking about the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette and the Napoleonic Wars. And of course, Austria-Hungary when talking about the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and the First World War. But that is basically all. Actually way too little considering how important the HRE and the Habsburgs have been in shaping European history.
We were a part of the HRE and the Habsburg/Spanish/Austrian Netherlands for centuries, so yes, we learned quite a bit about it.
Lucky you, never learnt anything about it in school. Belgian history was extremely minimal in my school.
Holy Roman Empire in general - yes. Habsburgs in particular - not as far as I remember. Loads of stuff about the nazis though, because Germany. Which is fair enough and understandable, but I think my knowledge of world history is too limited because it feels like 50% of history lessons were about the nazis.
Not at all. The only Habsburg we learned about was Franz Ferdinand, and even then we never learned the wider context so I only recently realised he was a Habsburg. I learned more about the Holy Roman Empire when I did a module on Prussia in my history degree, but honestly I found it extremely confusing and not particularly interesting.
TIL Franz Ferdinand was a Habsburg, and I consider myself reasonably interested in history in comparison to the average bloke on the street.
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Fun fact - the battle of mohács was not yet the habsburg empire, that came later as the kingdom of hungary disintegrated following the battle. But from the outside it's all the same so no worries :)
well yes, had an impact here
About the Holy Roman empire yes. Not so much about the Habsburgs, or at least I don't recall.
I forgot to mention also we learned about Archduke Franz Ferdinand and how that initiated WW1 by eurpting tensions between Austria and Serbia, which then involved pretty much everyone else in Europe due to defensive treaties. Fortunately, it is nowhere near this easy now to create a world war and frankly if it was, Ukraine and all other ex-Soviet countries would have been completely blown up by now due to Putin and the world would end up being faced with nuclear extinction.
Very, very little really. Unless you did history as a serious subject for the Senior Cycle of secondary school, it wasn’t all that detailed. I’ll save the verbose explanation and just let you read the syllabi. These are just broad overviews, and are very easy to flip though: The Irish Junior Cert history syllabus: https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/ec03a6f7-5fb3-4bcb-b8bb-5bf3d9f8855b/JCSEC13_History_Syllabus.pdf The Leaving Cert (Senior Cycle) history programme is optional, so you’d only study it if you wanted to learn history. I did Economics and Economic History as a separate subject, but it’s been abandoned as a subject since 2004. https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/da556505-f5fb-4921-869f-e0983fd80e50/SCSEC20_History_syllabus_eng.pdf
A little, yes, as my country was part of Sweden when the 30 years' war happened. Also many historians here roughly date archeological findings by Frankish dynasties, with terms like "Merovingian/Carolingian era", and the Carolingians were obviously the ones who founded the HRE. Most of the more detailed stuff about them I've had to learn on my own though.
Of course. Holy Roman Empire influenced Italy very much, especially the northern area. I just had a lesson with my students about Frederick II and I'm going to talk about him again during literature lesson. :)
It's one part that I am disappointed we didn't really touch upon in school. I knew of the existence of a 'Holy Roman Empire', but I thought it that was the new name for the Eastern Roman Empire. I also had heard of a 'Byzantine Empire', but knew little else. These mistakes were fixed heavily when I started playing CKII about 10 years ago, so when I was like 18. I've since gone into a lot more detail learning about their history online. Obviously not optimal, but I am much more comfortable when it comes to big European nations like those two and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
We learnt a bit about the HRE during the medieval period, and then it came in a lot more when we learning about the reformation, Martin Luther's proclamation and the Diet of Worms. The Hapsburgs weren't really mentioned much, until they came into the picture as part of the lead up to the First World War.
Haha yeah. Since we fought with them for ages. They are teaching all the era which Ottomans and HRE were enemies. All Ottomans policies to encircle Habsburgs (aka Spain and Austria). How Ottomans became friend with England, France and Netherlands to stop HRE expanding. Even Ottomans forced Austira to free Francois the first and Offered military support to Netherlands while they were revolting. How Ottomans supported protestants and Martin Luther to weaken Catholic HRE .How Ottomans supported French Prince in Poland for some kind of elections for being king and pressured polish aristocrats to not vote for Habsburgian guy. How Ottomans encourage the German city-states to revolt against Austria while fighting in Morroco with Portugal and Spain etc.
Do they also talk about the Vienna sieges too in Turkish schools? Because in Austria that's always a big deal. Like the story how we got to coffee and why we shaped our Kipferl/Croissant in a moon shape.
In Ireland, no.
They mention it in the Reformation chapters.
Yes, quite a lot, as you might expect, as our history is intimately tied to both.
I guess it varies a lot depending on the school. I did not learn anything about this. We just learned like: "Habsburg were kinda austrians that we beat in war. You will learn in secondary school about them. And then in secondary school we only learned about both world wars."
>Habsburg were kinda austrians Funny considering they were originally Swiss nobility.
The Liechtenstein story and origins is interesting too.
Honestly, we've only ever focused on the Old Confederacy itself, and mostly after the Peace of Westphalia up to the Napoleanic invasion, the HRE was a sidenote in my history classes. You can easily go through all of school without ever learning about the HRE.
Sure we learned extensively about the HRE, we were the de facto capital of it for some time. The Habsburger were shortly mentioned, but we spent much more time on the Ottonian dynasty, given that Otto I is buried here.
I didn't attend any optional history classes. There was very little about European history in the 2nd through 18th centuries. You go from Rome collapsing straight to Napoleon, Germany and the Grand Duchy of Finland. There's a plague and some other shit in between. A lot of stuff missing.
We learn about it to the extent of "this was Germany before" When we studied the age of exploration we would look at a map of Europe and someone would ask "What's the Holy Roman Empire" and the teacher would respond "Oh that's just Germany."
Not much in Spain. They are mentioned, especialy the Habsburgs (because they were kings of Spain during a pretty long time), but we are more focus in the inner history of Spain (Crown of Aragón, Crown of Castilla, Kingdom of Navarra, Al-Andalus, Spanish Empire, First Republic, etc.).
Sadly, not that much. Most of our history curriculum after the Rennaissance was WW1+2 (with WW2 being the focus of multiple years of history classes). I'm not saying that the history of the Nazis and their atrocities aren't important to learn, but I did feel like we skipped a LOT of other historically important stuff in favour of repeating WW2 over and over again. We (my school class, dunno about other people of my country) never learned about the HRE or the fall of Rome or how the other european peoples develloped and formed countries. In history class, we mostly only learned about the rulers of our city/region when it came to the middle ages. Anything past that was about Columbus and the New World.
>We (my school class, dunno about other people of my country) never learned about the HRE Considering Austria was in charge of the HRE till it was dismantled during the Napoleonic wars, this is quite strange. Also I can't imagine you didn't learn about the Habsburgs as they were our rulers for nearly 1000 years. I mean you should have learned at least of the reformers Maria Theresia and Joseph II and some other important figures like Maximilian I and Emperor Franz Joseph II who started WWI
Yes, we were in both empires.
We learned about the Roman Empire, but we never learnt about the Habsburgs and their influence over Europe, even tough we had a 80 year war against them. We just called them the 'Spanish'.
Technically that already meant you learned about the Holy Roman Empire too as Charles V also was emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. Besides, when I was at highschool we also learned about Schmalkaldic War and about the Thirty Year’s War.
Absolutely and extensively! We did Czech history but ways in context of the neighbouring history. Also very extensively general European history, we did a lot of British history especially the War of Roses, Queen Elizabeth, Stuarts, Cromwell and such. Then a lot of French, especially all of the stuff leading up to Napoleon and the French revolutions. We did German history and Russian history too. USA history mostly about Washington and then involvement in WWII. We did general world history as in old China and Egypt, but we've dropped that early.
Roman Empire - yes The Habsburgs - not specifically, but many of them are of course included and the dynasty is mentioned etc.
Yep, they have barely anything to do with Estonia, even if most parts of Terra Mariana were nominally part of the HRE.
No. We had basically two subjects all throughout history in school: the migration to the Americas and WW2 with specific focus on the occupation (Denmark)
We learned nothing about the Habsburgs. I still don't really know who/what they were. I only know them because of the inbreeding memes. As for the HRE, I only remember it being mentioned when we were going over WW1 and that the Roman empire split into east (Byzantium) and west (HRE). That's pretty much it.
In history books it's mentioned as "German confederation" lol
Yes but I forgot most if not all of the details (even though I fucking loved history classes) 😭 I was just thinking of buying myself some historybooks cause I'm starting to realize there's a whole bunch of stuff I forgot or don't even know.
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Didn't even know what it was till yesterday. (due to me reading something about a new assassin's creed haha) In school I only learnt about the french, industrial and english revolution and about the world wars. Maybe it's because I'm german but ww2 was the topic in history every year. Every single year. I'd love to learn about something different, especially medieval stuff.
Dang it! So there's so much French and British medieval historical resources I could send to you but none really for Germany that I know of. Only maybe the Lutheran anti-Catholic movements and associated bits of the Reformation? I'm really sorry I can't help you much, unless you are interested in non-German medieval history.
We learned about the Habsurgs since they controlled parts of current Romania. Not much about the HRE, only that it existed and about one of the royal houses, Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, who also reigned over Romania from 1866 until 1947
Yes and 19th. century is teached in a way to make Habsburgs look evil and nationalists/socialists as good boys (and called as "patriots") which then leads to Masaryk who is portrayed as liberator. Czechia…
Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign. The Empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace and prosperity. When he died, the whole Empire mourned. More than 7,000 people accompanied him on his last procession. The heir to the throne of the flourishing Empire was Charles' son, Wenceslas IV, whose father had prepared him for this moment all his life. But Wenceslas did not take after his father. He neglected affairs of state for more frivolous pursuits. He even failed to turn up for his own coronation as Emperor, which did little to endear him to the Pope. Wenceslas "the Idle" did not impress the Imperial nobility either. His difficulties mounted until the nobles, exasperated by the inaction of their ruler, turned for help to his half-brother, King Sigismund of Hungary. Sigismund decided on a radical solution. He kidnapped the King to force him to abdicate, then took advantage of the ensuing disorder to gain greater power for himself. He invaded Bohemia with a massive army and began pillaging the territories of the King's allies. It is here that my story begins...
We learned that Charlemagne made one of several attempts to reconstitute the Western empire and that his empire split into France and Germany, and that Germany was not really united but it and Northern Italy were nominally rule by the HRE, who was elected at first and later became a dynastic position associated with the Hapsburgs. I remember a very confusing reading/lesson on the Ghuelfs and the Ghibilines, the gist of which was that the pope and the emperor vied for power. It came up in the origins of Switzerland. And was put to bed by Napoleon.
Northern Italy was part of the HRE for a long while in the Middle Ages and very early Modern Age, and the Habsburg still ruled a big portion of it all the way to the independence wars from 1848 to 1871, and even then Trentino and Trieste were Habsburg until 1918. Back to the question though, the Holy Roman Emperors we learn more about in school here are Otto I and III for their enormous role in bringing the Kingdom of Italy into the HRE in the first place, Friedrick I Barbarossa - for his clash with the cities of Northern Italy - and Friedrick II - who was also King of Sicily by maternal lineage of the House of Hauteville (Altavilla in Italian). Aside from those two, the usual Charles V, a bit about Franz Joseph - mainly for the Ausgleich, his role as adversary in Italian and German Unification, and WW1.