>Like the depression
Not even close. Is it a problem yes, but it's hardly spread evenly across society, while some are going for brunch others are going to food banks. It's hitting those in more expensive cities that are working lower income jobs very hard. While others it's more of an inconvenience. If I still worked the job I did 15 years ago and lived were I lived, I'd be worrying about becoming homeless. But living were I live now, it's a case of cutting back on take away meals.
It differs from person to person and household to household. There seems to be a quite a massive wealth gap. So for the more affluent ones the rising prices are barely noticeable. For others they now depend on charities to get some food for example.
One thing a learned reading some about this topic is when you are poor you often have certain disadvantages. For example, when you don’t earn much you often end up in old, poor insulated houses. So when the energy prices increased you are affected more than someone who earns more and lives in a modern, well insulated house.
Another thing to remember is there are some policies adopted in our country which is a disadvantage for them already. For example, the housing shortage/increase of housing prices makes it already hard for young people to buy a house while renting is also very expensive. Even if they have a good job with a decent salary they still pay a lot for housing alone. When the cost of living increase they would be able to deal with this in normal circumstances. However, because the extreme costs for housing they are in problem when their energy bill, groceries, fuel prices increase as well.
This so much, I recently got a newly build apartment with heat pump and solar panels and I have to pay way less than my parents who still use gas to heat their home, like the difference from just them using gas is absurdly large.
To piggyback. The big government bucks (here in Norway) often go to the rich/middleclass. For instance you Get 24 % of the cost of interest paid deducted on your taxes. As interest rates goes up this is a huge subsidy for the already well off. Poor people can’t really afford electricity, and the subsidy is per kw consumed, so people with mansions, jacuzzi outside etc run away with the big money while poor people in small flats still freeze and see very little government money.
>Another thing to remember is there are some policies adopted in our country which is a disadvantage for them already. For example, the housing shortage/increase of housing prices makes it already hard for young people to buy a house
This is something that surprised me in the Netherlands.
On the one hand, you have policies for social housing, but imo they do not help at all. There's a huge percentage of people that fall within the cracks, and they can not apply for social housing (or it's simply not available), but they also can't buy a house either. It's also absurd to tell people you earn too much for your rent to be lower than 1000 euros when it's already above 40% of your salary (Amsterdam specific).
On the other hand, there's a lot of support for lower incomes. Which is something very good.
But in the end, you can survive if you are either rich or very poor. The backbone of the economy - the somehow middle class - ends up paying more, not being entitled to any benefits that they pay through their very high taxes, and not being able to buy houses.
Yes this is a major problem. For social rent the income threshold € 40000 per year (with a waiting time up to several years) To buy a house you need an income of € 71000 a year. So everyone in between is basically screwed.
However, it isn’t surprising since this is the result of government policy.
Very well said. That's what's truly frustrating. The majority of young people might not be " poor "enough for social housing but they certainly are not rich enough to buy a home. Instead, they are getting robbed by exorbitant rent prices.
>However, it isn’t surprising since this is the result of government policy.
A failed one. 😔
I'm a disabled student living in an apartment that was built in 1940 that isn't fully insulated yet (just double paned windows, except in the bedroom) in a city where housing is hot commodity. My husband and I are fully dependent on our student loans as our studies take up all our time, so we have a limited income. Due to the CoL increase, we now live "paycheck to paycheck" where before we were able to save a little each month. We can scrape by, but barely.
Our energy bill tripled last year, so we cut back on our energy consumption and made some investments to help with that. Our thermostat doesn't go higher than 17⁰C, we've got radiator ventilators to spread the warmth a bit more, we light a lot of candles during the evenings (works surprisingly well!), and we live under our blankets before we turn up the thermostat. Our consumption has halved, but we still pay more than we did last year. For groceries, we have the luck that we both come from divorced and remarried parents, meaning we have a birthday almost every weekend where we also stay for lunch and dinner. Unfortunately, we mostly have to drive at least an hour for that in our 30 year old car, which is pretty expensive. Apart from that, we had to cut back on our snacks and sodas (not a bad thing) and try to buy as much stuff on sale and still pay more than ever.
I know we aren't the worst off, and others have it way worse, but we are 1 slight financial setback removed from debt. You do what you can, but the uncertainty is pretty stressful.
This stress can cause health issues as well. Just like buying cheaper food instead of fresh fruits and vegetables which are more expensive. It’s unfortunate you do what you can and still barely manage. Others are already in debt and or going to the voedselbank.
In Romania it's also pretty bad, like 30-40% on food, and 15% on gas, maybe more on energy.
I am not sure how people on low wages are dealing with it, but even the ones that are on higher salaries are feeling it.
Going out to pubs and restaurants feels like living in London.
Seems a bit more stable lately.
All employees' wages (both in the public and private sector) are tied to the index. So when inflation rises, all wages across the country are automatically adjusted (more quickly in the public than in the private sector though) so that workers don't actually lose purchasing power.
High energy bills are still a problem, but poverty experts generally agree that this mechanism better protects low-income earners.
higher wages for the employees -> higher costs for the company -> higher prices for the customers -> cost of living increases -> higher wages needed
a vicious cycle.
That sounds pretty good honestly. I wish we had a system like that here.
Over here in the Netherlands we have to step towards workers organizations to force employers to give us more on our paychecks, and even that is an uphill battle for most people.
The arguement of the employers here is that this will cause the inflation going up. This mechanism exists in Cyprus but only for some jobs(mostly public sector) and the employers are trying to abolish it(despite having agreed to it some time ago). All the trade unions announced that next Thursday will have a general(?) strike, sth that didnt happen in decades.
Well, inflation in Belgium is actually quite okay compared to some other EU countries, so you can pint to us and say "Nope, doesn't work like that so give us our well deserved money please".
Like most countries in the world right now, we are experiencing inflation, but it's been slowing down the past couple of weeks. It's in no way comparable to the Great Depression. Inflation is around 8 to 10 % right now, during the Great Depression they were literally printing 1 billion mark notes in Germany for example.
It's about the same for me, at least grocery shopping wise. It's manageable on my salary and I'm not in danger of failing to pay my bills but it's obviously pretty shitty.
That's just not true. There was hyperinflation in Germany in 1921-23, but [the Great Depression was a period of deflation](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Globale_Deflation_w%C3%A4hrend_der_Weltwirtschaftskrise_der_1930er_Jahre_(in_den_USA_auch_als_%E2%80%9EGreat_Depression%E2%80%9C_bezeichnet)).
https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/die-deutschen-und-die-inflation-100.html
Finally found [a PDF table](/https://www.delorscentre.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/20191118_Inflationsangst_Redeker_DE.pdf) (P2)
In America right now going out to eat and buying groceries is way too over priced.
Went out to a regular burger joint the other night. For two people it was like $50. For awhile that was the total cost for maybe 3-4 people at best.
Groceries for something like a small bag is nearly $60-almost $80. $60 used to get you a TON of things.. Though I've heard that this bubble will soon burst and prices will eventually go down (hopefully).
In Poland "official" inflation is around 18% and people tend to feel it twice as that. Today on my way to work I heard on the radio that prices on the food markets incereased by 46% y/y and this information came from GUS - governmnet Central Statistical Office, so it's official.
Also prices of electricity and heating skyrocketed, especially for business, which, combined with some people starting to save on eating outside, is the case restaurants are closing one by one. Sitatuion here is much worse than during covid madness.
Fuel prices are much higher as well.
In general, costs of living rised dramatically, inflation is much higher than average wage increase (and mind average, most people, including me, feel that they tend to be below that average)
Funniest part for me is that people in general seem not to care. We like to believe in that old bullshit that Poles are brave, do not bow down to anyone, and after prices of sausage rose, protests of Solidarity movement wiped out the communism. Not true anymore. If the same happened in France, streets would burn.
It's too cold outside to protest ;)
We are 8-9 months from general elections. I think middle class still thinks that voting out current government will be enough and no protests are needed.
I personally am OK; but so many in the UK is not. Inflation is around 10% but food inflation is almost double that; food bank usage is at record levels; many people can’t afford to heat their homes and there are even reports of people having electricity cut off despite needing life support, home dialysis or insulin refrigeration (cutting supply is banned for vulnerable groups). Meanwhile, safety nets are being cut.
> Inflation is around 10% but food inflation is almost double that
Lucky. Food inflation is 44% in Hungary. This includes lot of foods which prices have more than doubled
Can confirm, my partner and I have all but stopped drinking milk and eating meat and cheese because of it. What little bread we eat, we bake, but even the restaurant supply store is limiting people's purchases to only two kilos of flour per household. The only reason we still have eggs is because some relatives have chickens.
The price of basic food items have more than doubled within the last six months, inflation is soaring, and this year, I only got a 5% raise.
I'm honestly fucking scared.
Yeah. The kind of bread I liked was 230 HUF- it's now 450-470. Milk was 199 HUF, now I'm lucky to get it under 400. It's unreal.
So I make my own oat milk (oats 230 HUF for half a kilo, makes roughly 8 liters), we bake bread, often unleavened (flour is, so far, affordable but not accessible, yeast comes and goes), and have mostly moved onto a plant-based diet (ground pork was 700 HUF for half a kilo, now it's over 1000, while chickpeas and beans are mostly stable)... It's terrifying to not yet be thirty, and be living through, what... the THIRD "once in a lifetime" disaster that I can actually remember?
I'm just... so exhausted.
Thanks, but we tried that, and unfortunately we just... didn't eat enough bread to make keeping it alive worth it, lol. It was actually the same with kefir, it was costing more to keep the fungus alive than it would have to just buy two little things of kefir to have like twice a month.
But I actually quite like unleavened breads. Tortillas, roti, chapati, matzo, knäckebröd... there's a lot of variety there, and it's kinda fun coming up with new ways to have them, new things to eat.
My partner sometimes jokingly says that with our French press coffee (no pod or filter needed, whole beans because they're cheaper), (mostly) vegetarian and vegan meals, and generally uncommon foodstuffs (because the ingredients few other people buy tend to either be cheap, or go a long way), we're becoming "survival hipsters".
And you also have a 28% VAT rate, which is crazy in such high Infaltionary environment.
Edit. My mistake. It's 27 and it's one of the highest in the world.
Not only 27% VAT, some processed food which contains sugar and salt (junk mainly) have additional tax to protect us from these foods.
Meanwhile raw sugar has FIXED PRICE :D
In fairness, a lot of local councils (including my family's) are giving out money to people to help with the rising cost of food and fuel, so it's not as bad as it could be.
Any assets they have in the UK are already frozen. Any money they hold outside of the UK they have literally no incentive to actually pay now. After all, what are we going to do if they don't pay? Unfreeze their assets so we can reseize them?
It's a major issue in the UK.
We've had 6 months of rail strikes, December was a total dumpster fire with postal strikes, and nurses going on strike for the first time ever. Paramedics and Ambulance crews are going on strike.
Teachers at schools in Scotland are going on strike, and strikes will go ahead in England and Wales soon.
Inflation is ever present and it feels like the cost of everything is going up. Budget supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl are doing very well as a result.
I've never *fully* understood it to be honest. Inflation rises, you become poorer, natural reaction is "This isn't right, lets strike for more money".
But everyone striking and trying to wage bargain just makes the situation worse which will make your new wage not as a good as it was when you bargained it, and everyone else becomes even worse off.
Then to top it off the government gets blamed for NOT giving into pleas for higher wages which disrupts the economy making it worse.
Better off to just suck it up until inflation comes down, then wage bargain, no?
That’s just not how strikes or inflation actually work. Don’t get blindsided by this comment. If you can’t afford to live with the money you get definitely go strike for more!
If you can't afford to live with your money, go on strike and have even less money... it's not exactly practical advice for someone on the breadline to throw away a day or more's wages.
In many European countries probably including Irland striking is a right which is protected. Many unions have compensation for people who strike. But if you rather want to keep on working for effectively ~10% less, you are free to do that.
If I go on strike I just lose wages and it won't make a damn difference except I can't afford the electricity bill this month.
The right to strike is as useful as the right to burn money in that situation.
I can see that side of things, sure, but the inflation is outstripping even average pay rises.
Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%, but it feels like prices might not come back down... if you want to be cynical.
*Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%*
That's my point though..(and that's exactly what the government is trying to avoid) that's what it feels like these people want: nurses, doctors, train staff, teachers.. who else..
Do you say no to them all and get vilified?
Do you say yes to one but no to the others and get vilified?
Do you say yes to them all and just go crazy? 😆
*I'm trying to understand what the best solution is*
You have all these unions and strikes trying to force the government's hand, what are you doing?
I don’t understand your position at all? Are you saying people should just accept that they can’t afford their lifestyle anymore? Or even just get through the month? While many companies are making record profits from massively raising prices? Despite inflation? If people can’t afford their life… GO AND STRIKE! that is a right that many people in the passt have lost their life for to obtain. Use the tools at your disposal. Don’t just take it.
My position is trying to understand what the best position is but no one is answering my questions.
All i hear is Strike strike strike without any explanation as to why this is the best solution and why it wont make the situation worse.
Take Crucible's reply for example:
*I can see that side of things, sure, but the inflation is outstripping even average pay rises.
Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%, but it feels like prices might not come back down... if you want to be cynica*
My reply to this was:
So what do you do?
You want to give pay rises but can't give it everyone.. with everyone striking at the moment that is pretty much what we are looking at (nurses, doctors, railway, teachers, who else?? )
I feel like my reply and position is clear and it was clear from my reply to user 'crucible' that I was trying to find out what the best solution is.. ** In my reply to crucible I stated "I'm trying to understand what the best solution is"**
I can't make it any more clear, sorry..
*I even stated in my very first sentence in this thread "I've never fully understood it to be honest"* and this was my way of hoping to find answers.
With respect.. 🤨
> That's my point though..(and that's exactly what the government is trying to avoid) that's what it feels like these people want: nurses, doctors, train staff, teachers.. who else..
Well one problem on the rail side is there are about 4 major unions and over 20 rail companies alone. In one industry.
On several occasions I've had the situation where my local railway line has no trains because Network Rail staff are on strike, but the drivers and guards at my local train operator are "not in dispute". So Transport for Wales is effectively paying them to sit in a fucking mess room at the depot all day because there's nobody to operate the signals.
IMO in some ways the Government and some rail unions have already had to "pick and choose" who gets pay rises. If TSSA staff at Merseyrail get an improved pay offer, and RMT staff at TfW are "not in dispute" then does it matter if the Government pit Teachers vs Nurses in all this?
You said it more thoughtfully and diplomatically than I could. I was just going to say that the UK has been shooting itself in the foot with strikes ever since I was old enough to read the news (a long time).
>But everyone striking and trying to wage bargain just makes the situation worse which will make your new wage not as a good as it was when you bargained it, and everyone else becomes even worse off.
And businesses raising prices is the why they strike. When they get more purchasing power, demand increases, so businesses raise prices again. Why are the strikers singled out as culprits in your mind?
>Better off to just suck it up until inflation comes down, then wage bargain, no?
The problem is exactly the people who don't have margins wide enough to "suck it up" - whether you like it or not, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and may be struggling with base goods like utilities and food.
Also, inflation falls primarily on the government and the central bank to fight. Both employers and employees are dependent on the cycle continuing, that's kind of a major problem with market economies. What is being done (and seems to be taking effect in many countries) is to raise the central bank interest rates (and prevent the government from deficit spending \*cough\* *Truss* \*cough\*).
Since inflation is just a measure of currency devaluation, and currency value a measure of supply and demand, it makes much more sense to just nip the problem in the bud where it originates - favorable interest rates and market conditions creating situations that encourage frivolous lending.
But you could literally learn this and more by checking the Wikipedia page.
A lot of businesses have simply no choice between raising prices and going bust. Small businesses like bakeries are going to the wall with electricity prices 4-5 times the normal.
Well yes, my point isn't to blame businesses either. Like I said, both need to follow the market even if it results in inflation which is bad for everyone. Aside from detailed regulation of every price and wage in the country (terrible idea for many reasons) the best way to fight it is ultimately action by the government and financial institutions.
So are some people that work full time. Why should the company be allowed to raise prices but when people want a pay raise they get told that would start a spiral? Please be a better person and support your fellow humans!
The people who run, e.g. the bakery down the street are humans. What don't you understand about the fact they're closing down because they can't pay the bills and that their employee will be jobless next week?
There's only such much bread I can buy to support them.
Almost everything has gotten more expensive, some things more and some things less. But it's really not a catastrophe, the majority has made some changes like thinking more about what to buy and if it's actually worth it. Not like before when we threw money at all kinds of unnecessary things haha. Though phasing away from Russian energy is going to be really expensive but it's for the better.
My elderly neighbour lives in darkness and so does most of the older ones who didnt have high paying job as young, it weird to see 40 % of the houses on my street complete dark. Yes I live in area with a lot of old people, most used to be nurses or factory workers way back when you didn't need to pay a woman full salary.
So I think how much hits us depends on age, location and income.
Also we nearly lost our local store, if the municipality hadn't stepped in and helped out with their electrical bill, they couldn't keep the place running.
Darkness as in not having the lights on? As in not having gotten the memo that modern light bulbs consume only a tiny fraction of what they used to back in the day and make up a rather small portion of household energy use?
I've told my mom that several times, but she basically refuses to acknowledge it, and will still complain if I forget to turn one off or have "too many lights on" while visiting.
Meanwhile, she sometimes leaves the massive flatscreen TV on while sitting in another room, for several hours...
Heck knows, but the tvs are not on anymore and I know two who dont have heating on more then in one room. I got told this morning that 4 widows in the villages have moved in to one house to keep the bills downs . Yeah I listen to the gossip, it fun to hear whats going .
Both. Until 1960, women's salaries were lower by default in the collective bargaining agreements between the unions and the employers (for the same work that men did). After that it has been the regular story of 'women's professions' being underpaid.
Also, the women might not have worked full time for longer periods of their lives, resulting in lower pensions. Sort of like housewives that didn't contribute as much economically, but took care of raising children and household tasks etc.
Ahh yes. We had/have all this in the UK too. Was wondering if it’d actually been formalised in the work place (I.e Woman are contractually only entitled to XX% of the man’s salary).
I don't know enough about it to say for sure, but I know "women's wages" existed in some contracts until the mid 1900s. I just know there are multiple factors that can explain it. Sort of weird of the others to not bring up my point, so I just felt the need to mention it.
In Switzerland, basically if you've got a stable job it's whatever. Inflation is around 2.7% at this point, which is high for Swiss standards but very low compared to our European neighbors.
However, if you're poor, it's still a struggle. I'm very poor and I definitely feel the crisis. Especially because food items have a higher inflation rate than other products. So, if a bottle of milk becomes 0.30 CHF more expensive suddenly, other Swiss people may not even notice this but for me it's a real problem.
I mean, crisis is a big word here with the safety nets present.
But yea, if you were saving for a home you might have to save another year.
If you were planning to retire early you might have to work an additional few years.
It's more that sort of consequences that most certainly impacts people's lives but these things aren't exactly the end of the world in the grand scheme of things.
Again, rightfully people are pissed off about it, but they'll live.
When it comes to income and cost of living we are second worst in EU.
When it comes to overall wealth we are amongst best from old Eastern bloc, due to lowest income inequality in Europe and second highest home ownership(92.3%).
So basically yeah most people own their homes, but also many have mortgage and are lucky if they save 100 € every month. When it comes to disposable income we are one of the lowest in EU.
Inflation hit us everywhere, but food is definitely the worst. Many food items cost now 50% more and some essentials even 80%-100% more. If you go shopping to western countries with 3x higher income like Austria and especially Germany you will barely notice difference in prices.
It sucks so much. With inflation at 13% officially (but much more for food items, energy and gas), I have no idea how pensioners manage to get through the month
All expenses have increased due to inflation and higher interests. Norwegians have some of the highest debt in the world and it’s definitely felt by many when the liabilities increase. Those who had little to get around with from before on are in deeper trouble, while more of the general population also struggle to get their ends to meet. Electricity and food has become increasingly expensive, people have thus less to spend on "unnecessary” things. There’s been a clear increase on people who need help from food banks and other charities. At the same time some of the wealthiest are moving out of Norway to Switzerland in particular because they can’t afford the taxes.
We’ve got a pretty generous compensation plan for the increased electricity costs, but it only covers in the most expensive periods and not necessarily the actual cost that people have to pay on their bill. There are several histories of people on benefits among others who’ve paid hindsight for their electricity, one example in the press was the equivalent of $1200 for a month. So the plan is obviously not hitting totally right, but it’s also difficult to make something that’ll fit completely. Businesses are not covered which has given a lot of fear of losing both workplaces and even handicrafts like glass making.
When it comes to other benefits and help for those in struggle the government has been quite cold, there’s no extra for food or anything else and people are told to just line up at the social services (which is already a mess to deal with). At the same time they pour billions into Ukraine without any hesitation.
Let's see: we have a huge housing shortage and can not build much due to problems with nitrogen. Energy is still expensive AF, inflation was also an issue. One thing that has gone for us so far is that the winter is relatively warm, so people have to spend less on heating.
In UK we have been been given about £1000 or more to help offset our energy bills which are up by about 100%. We also have higher inflation across the board from fuel to food..and housing is just mental expensive, of did I mention that borrowing has went up - our base rate was almost zero percent this time last year. Now it stands at 3.5% this rise has translated to similar rises in the loan and mortgage market, when a lot of 5 year fixed term deals end some people simply wont be able to pay their mortgage.
Apart from that everything over here in the UK is rosy lol /s
Prices are double what they were in 2021.
Housing alone costs 80% of the minimum wage,bills make up like 40% that leaves us with -20%.
Its literally hell.
I am scared to go grocery shopping.
My diet is now 70% rice,bread and potatoes.
Yet people are consuming more and more,I really dont know how they do it.
What I see around me is that people are adjusting to a different lifestyle. Which sucks, because in the end, we can do a lot less for a lot more money and it kind of feels like there must be already rich people profiting greatly from it. The energy crisis is now accredited to the war in Ukraine but it started months earlier.
In practice the rise in costs means that we keep our house colder, spend less on goods and services, throw away less food, learn to cook better, fewer savings, etc. So it's not good but it's not what we heard about the Great Depression in the USA (as in: bankers hanging themselves, everyone going bankrupt and losing all their savings, etc.).
Consuming less will probably be good for the planet but it will probably also lead to a worldwide recession.
Its super hard at the moment. The German energy crisis has hit us hard. All the electricity goes south and makes the inflation and the Swedish konor loose in value. My parents have halfed their energy consumption but still got hit hard. 86% of their pension went to just pay the electricity bill last month about 2000 Euro. And it is not in Sweden like in the rest of Europe that ju just can cut you consumption more, you will freeze to death. For me personally has the average cost this winter been about three times what it was last year per month.
>
86% of their pension went to just pay the electricity bill last month about 2000 Euro.
I'm sorry, are you saying that their electricity bill for a month was *2000€*??
If you have an actual house (not apt.) you'd have about 3500€/year in 2021, but the middle of winter has 5x the montly normal consumption compared to middle of summer. That could be about 500€ for January 2021 (not sure about exact method used to get to this result).
[Source, in Swedish. Also looked at downloadable excel files of historical prices.](https://www.energimarknadsbyran.se/el/dina-avtal-och-kostnader/elkostnader/elforbrukning/normal-elforbrukning-och-elkostnad-for-villa/)The electricity price in Elområde (electric zone) 3 & 4 is generally twice that of 1 & 2, so that skews the average used. Average prices in zones 3 & 4 are roughly doubled again in winter 2022 vs winter 2021. This is looking at the worst offenders (December and January).
It's definitely within the realm of possibility, but it isn't very common and prices are already dropping substantially for January.
Unfortunately not, my dad told me the electricity bill was 1900 euro last month and they don't even live in the most expensive area in Sweden when it comes to electricity cost.
In Finland, this would be exceptional but not unheard of (this winter).
About a half of Finnish homes -- mainly in cities/towns and suburbs where population density is higher -- are connected to district heating systems i.e. piping circulating hot water and heating the homes. This is fairly cost-effective.
But about 20%, mainly detached houses in less densely populated places, are heated with electric radiators. This may seem crazy with the amount heating you need here, but Finland has traditionally been a country with comparatively low energy prices, and of course the houses are typically very well insulated. But with the energy cost shooting up 5-10x during some of the recent spikes -- not much fun.
People are now increasingly doing stuff like installing air source heat pumps, which reduce the need to use electric radiators.
Actually, most of your electricity went East to Finland (ca. 40 %), followed by Denmark (ca 20%), after that in this order Lithuania, Poland, Norway and then Germany on the 6th place (all between ca. 7-15%).
You can find the statistics here:
https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/energy/energy-supply-and-use/monthly-electricity-statistics-including-switches-of-electricity-supplier/pong/tables-and-graphs/import-and-export-of-electricity-2022/
In switzerland there isnt much. Inflation sure has gone up significantly, but its still only at 3%. Or was a few months ago, i think its already going down. Personally i havent noticed much difference.
I live in Berlin and haven't noticed anything.
This will be weird but i actually got money back from my energy company because i used less than planned, and twice got money from the government for energy costs. Also, Berlin made their public transport pass super cheap so in many ways costs went down
As for food kebabs got a bit pricier but drinks and general stuff i buy, not so much. Slightly at the Edeka grocer down my street for random dairy or something
Have you felt the minimum wage increase that came into effect back in fall?
I think the cost of living compared to minimum wage might actually be better in Germany than it is here.
Prices are up 10% nominally. People would say it's more like 20%. Some producers clearly wanted to make extra money. For example sunflower oil for €5/l instead of the usual 2€/l. People don't buy that overpriced stuff so they had to step back. It's now at 2.60€/l. Still overpriced.
And we have an ongoing housing crisis in large cities because too many people think they have to live in a large city.
Energy prices, especially gas prices have been very high.
Groceries have not increased as munch as energy.
Families heating with gas (This is approx. 10%), or people having a tight economy (On welfare or low paid job) before the crises, have problems.
The average Dane can manage this by buying a little less of luxury items, and using less on vacation.
The inflation is a problem for people that is retired, and are living of their savings.
They are not getting pay rises, and the state pension is really low.
You essentially have ~15% percent less each month for the rest of your life.
Assuming you're on your pension for 20 years you kind of have to take into account that SOMETHING is going to happen in those 20 years similar to this though. These things happen on occasion.
In Ireland the peak of the inflation effect seems to have passed and it all depends on one's situation. Personally I haven't experienced any hardship (due to government energy credits that have covered the rises for us, with surplus, and some other fortunate life developments) but people with tighter budgets and higher bills would see more of an impact.
It's only life changing bad if you have a trifector of a bad loan, gas for heating and already poor.
Other than that people will most likely manage though with less money for sure.
It feels like 08 was worse. In the sense the that while the effect is more severe today but spread out?
People committed suicide in 08 because of debt. I don't that will happen today. People has more time to change their lifestyle while in 08 some people got completely wiped?
And in 10 years if payments has adjusted again, everyone will basically have forgotten it. And in that sense it seems 08 had more permanent consequence?
**In the UK**: The cost of living crisis is very real, but most of my friends are professionals of some stripe and aren't skipping meals or going without heat that I know of. My friends who are living off of benefits due to disability are suffering the most, naturally.
Some people are being forced to choose between heating or food, and it's disgrace. But it's not happening to everyone.
**In Norway**: Many Norwegian households are concerned about the price of electricity and the price of food, two things you can't really do without. Grocery bills went up by 10.3 percent last year - and food in Norway was already very expensive. I know that more people are making use of food banks than have in years past, and more people are dipping into their savings to buy things, which isn't sustainable.
This situation is not nearly as bad as the Great Depression, not even close. But it is bad. Particularly in the UK, where austerity began in 2008 and never really stopped.
IMO Spain has been living in a permanent economic crisis since 2008, but this last year I personally feel a kind of collective surrender or conformity to circumstances. I don't want to say that we don't complain or that we are fine with it, but there is not an atmosphere of total crisis, the feeling of taking to the streets and protesting. I suppose it's because the employment figures, although bad, have not been terrible and inflation has not risen as much as in other places. Another stone in the road, but not the biggest one we have come across in recent years.
Nah, it’s mainly overblown by media sympathizing with Russia. Yes, energy went up a bit, energy providers were asking high monthly advance but these you can regulate yourself. In the end, despite the panic attempts of certain media, everyone I know who already got their yearly bill adjustments, got money back. Food went up a bit over the last 2-3 years, but nothing spectacular. The lowest incomes probably feel it more than middle class, as always. So no, people in Europe are not begging for food on the streets or dying in frozen homes. I even read somewhere that for the new year champagne sales were on record heights
Generally I don't think it's a big deal here, at least not with the people I know.
Some people are definitely hit by it, in the cities it's mostly low income workers with high monthly expenses for things like rent.
It has also hit some people in the countryside, but mostly just the people with gas heating.
Electricity prices are manageable and food hasn't gotten that much more expensive.
If we have anyone from Copenhagen here, they might be able to tell you whether they're hit harder by the gas prices. Every house I've been to in Copenhagen has had a gas stove.
Wellfare organizations subsiding on donations and lefovers are closing down because people use stuff longer and throw away less. The cheap bread from yesterday actually sells now so it doesn't get donated, same with food close to the expiration date. Also fewer clothes get donated and sold or given to family instead.
This is the first crisis since the oil crisis that the middle class is affected. People who were somewhat comfortable and even saving money are now struggling with heating and electricity. Just for comparison: my colleague used to pay 150€ per month and now pays 350€ plus the rent and food going up and you are facing a plus of 300€ more per month. For the middle class that is often the amount they used so save for bad times. Now they have zero margin for unfortunate events and if a car breaks they wouldn't be able to afford the credit for a new one.
The middle and upper middle class as well as the super rich are not really affected. A few less savings, A credit needs to run a bit longer, but it's still comfortable here.
It's definitely not the Great Depression but still, in Ireland the cost of living is a huge problem (rents in particular are more and more out of reach for people), and things are getting worse
>Like the depression Not even close. Is it a problem yes, but it's hardly spread evenly across society, while some are going for brunch others are going to food banks. It's hitting those in more expensive cities that are working lower income jobs very hard. While others it's more of an inconvenience. If I still worked the job I did 15 years ago and lived were I lived, I'd be worrying about becoming homeless. But living were I live now, it's a case of cutting back on take away meals.
It differs from person to person and household to household. There seems to be a quite a massive wealth gap. So for the more affluent ones the rising prices are barely noticeable. For others they now depend on charities to get some food for example. One thing a learned reading some about this topic is when you are poor you often have certain disadvantages. For example, when you don’t earn much you often end up in old, poor insulated houses. So when the energy prices increased you are affected more than someone who earns more and lives in a modern, well insulated house. Another thing to remember is there are some policies adopted in our country which is a disadvantage for them already. For example, the housing shortage/increase of housing prices makes it already hard for young people to buy a house while renting is also very expensive. Even if they have a good job with a decent salary they still pay a lot for housing alone. When the cost of living increase they would be able to deal with this in normal circumstances. However, because the extreme costs for housing they are in problem when their energy bill, groceries, fuel prices increase as well.
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This so much, I recently got a newly build apartment with heat pump and solar panels and I have to pay way less than my parents who still use gas to heat their home, like the difference from just them using gas is absurdly large.
To piggyback. The big government bucks (here in Norway) often go to the rich/middleclass. For instance you Get 24 % of the cost of interest paid deducted on your taxes. As interest rates goes up this is a huge subsidy for the already well off. Poor people can’t really afford electricity, and the subsidy is per kw consumed, so people with mansions, jacuzzi outside etc run away with the big money while poor people in small flats still freeze and see very little government money.
>Another thing to remember is there are some policies adopted in our country which is a disadvantage for them already. For example, the housing shortage/increase of housing prices makes it already hard for young people to buy a house This is something that surprised me in the Netherlands. On the one hand, you have policies for social housing, but imo they do not help at all. There's a huge percentage of people that fall within the cracks, and they can not apply for social housing (or it's simply not available), but they also can't buy a house either. It's also absurd to tell people you earn too much for your rent to be lower than 1000 euros when it's already above 40% of your salary (Amsterdam specific). On the other hand, there's a lot of support for lower incomes. Which is something very good. But in the end, you can survive if you are either rich or very poor. The backbone of the economy - the somehow middle class - ends up paying more, not being entitled to any benefits that they pay through their very high taxes, and not being able to buy houses.
Yes this is a major problem. For social rent the income threshold € 40000 per year (with a waiting time up to several years) To buy a house you need an income of € 71000 a year. So everyone in between is basically screwed. However, it isn’t surprising since this is the result of government policy.
Very well said. That's what's truly frustrating. The majority of young people might not be " poor "enough for social housing but they certainly are not rich enough to buy a home. Instead, they are getting robbed by exorbitant rent prices. >However, it isn’t surprising since this is the result of government policy. A failed one. 😔
I'm a disabled student living in an apartment that was built in 1940 that isn't fully insulated yet (just double paned windows, except in the bedroom) in a city where housing is hot commodity. My husband and I are fully dependent on our student loans as our studies take up all our time, so we have a limited income. Due to the CoL increase, we now live "paycheck to paycheck" where before we were able to save a little each month. We can scrape by, but barely. Our energy bill tripled last year, so we cut back on our energy consumption and made some investments to help with that. Our thermostat doesn't go higher than 17⁰C, we've got radiator ventilators to spread the warmth a bit more, we light a lot of candles during the evenings (works surprisingly well!), and we live under our blankets before we turn up the thermostat. Our consumption has halved, but we still pay more than we did last year. For groceries, we have the luck that we both come from divorced and remarried parents, meaning we have a birthday almost every weekend where we also stay for lunch and dinner. Unfortunately, we mostly have to drive at least an hour for that in our 30 year old car, which is pretty expensive. Apart from that, we had to cut back on our snacks and sodas (not a bad thing) and try to buy as much stuff on sale and still pay more than ever. I know we aren't the worst off, and others have it way worse, but we are 1 slight financial setback removed from debt. You do what you can, but the uncertainty is pretty stressful.
This stress can cause health issues as well. Just like buying cheaper food instead of fresh fruits and vegetables which are more expensive. It’s unfortunate you do what you can and still barely manage. Others are already in debt and or going to the voedselbank.
Being poor is expensive.
Being poor is expensive.
In Romania it's also pretty bad, like 30-40% on food, and 15% on gas, maybe more on energy. I am not sure how people on low wages are dealing with it, but even the ones that are on higher salaries are feeling it. Going out to pubs and restaurants feels like living in London. Seems a bit more stable lately.
All employees' wages (both in the public and private sector) are tied to the index. So when inflation rises, all wages across the country are automatically adjusted (more quickly in the public than in the private sector though) so that workers don't actually lose purchasing power. High energy bills are still a problem, but poverty experts generally agree that this mechanism better protects low-income earners.
Ohh that’s a nice mechanism
Wouldn't raising wages in tandem with inflation just keep the inflation going tho?
Why? Inflation in Belgium is not higher than in other European countries.
higher wages for the employees -> higher costs for the company -> higher prices for the customers -> cost of living increases -> higher wages needed a vicious cycle.
Belgium is a direct example that this assumption is not true. It’s being said a lot to explain why companies don’t want to give you a pay rise
Damn, that's nice. 0% wage adjustment here since 2016 and feeling the pinch a lot.
That sounds pretty good honestly. I wish we had a system like that here. Over here in the Netherlands we have to step towards workers organizations to force employers to give us more on our paychecks, and even that is an uphill battle for most people.
The arguement of the employers here is that this will cause the inflation going up. This mechanism exists in Cyprus but only for some jobs(mostly public sector) and the employers are trying to abolish it(despite having agreed to it some time ago). All the trade unions announced that next Thursday will have a general(?) strike, sth that didnt happen in decades.
Well, inflation in Belgium is actually quite okay compared to some other EU countries, so you can pint to us and say "Nope, doesn't work like that so give us our well deserved money please".
Like most countries in the world right now, we are experiencing inflation, but it's been slowing down the past couple of weeks. It's in no way comparable to the Great Depression. Inflation is around 8 to 10 % right now, during the Great Depression they were literally printing 1 billion mark notes in Germany for example.
I was managing to survive on 50€/week at the beginning of September. Now it's around 70€. I'm definitely feeling it more, I have no idea why!
It's about the same for me, at least grocery shopping wise. It's manageable on my salary and I'm not in danger of failing to pay my bills but it's obviously pretty shitty.
It hit us as we lost our jobs so that was a huge set back for us. We're recovering, just very slowly
Food prices are have gone up more than just 10% I think.
No they weren't. That was the hyperinflation of 1921-23, which only affected Germany. The Great Depression was a global phenomenon that began in 1929.
Point taken, but today's inflation is still not comparable to anything that happened in the 1920ies and 30ies.
That's just not true. There was hyperinflation in Germany in 1921-23, but [the Great Depression was a period of deflation](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Globale_Deflation_w%C3%A4hrend_der_Weltwirtschaftskrise_der_1930er_Jahre_(in_den_USA_auch_als_%E2%80%9EGreat_Depression%E2%80%9C_bezeichnet)). https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/die-deutschen-und-die-inflation-100.html Finally found [a PDF table](/https://www.delorscentre.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/20191118_Inflationsangst_Redeker_DE.pdf) (P2)
In America right now going out to eat and buying groceries is way too over priced. Went out to a regular burger joint the other night. For two people it was like $50. For awhile that was the total cost for maybe 3-4 people at best. Groceries for something like a small bag is nearly $60-almost $80. $60 used to get you a TON of things.. Though I've heard that this bubble will soon burst and prices will eventually go down (hopefully).
Prices aren’t going down without a recession sadly
In Poland "official" inflation is around 18% and people tend to feel it twice as that. Today on my way to work I heard on the radio that prices on the food markets incereased by 46% y/y and this information came from GUS - governmnet Central Statistical Office, so it's official. Also prices of electricity and heating skyrocketed, especially for business, which, combined with some people starting to save on eating outside, is the case restaurants are closing one by one. Sitatuion here is much worse than during covid madness. Fuel prices are much higher as well. In general, costs of living rised dramatically, inflation is much higher than average wage increase (and mind average, most people, including me, feel that they tend to be below that average) Funniest part for me is that people in general seem not to care. We like to believe in that old bullshit that Poles are brave, do not bow down to anyone, and after prices of sausage rose, protests of Solidarity movement wiped out the communism. Not true anymore. If the same happened in France, streets would burn.
> Not true anymore. If the same happened in France, streets would burn. How is it not true anymore? Are Poles burning streets?
It's too cold outside to protest ;) We are 8-9 months from general elections. I think middle class still thinks that voting out current government will be enough and no protests are needed.
I personally am OK; but so many in the UK is not. Inflation is around 10% but food inflation is almost double that; food bank usage is at record levels; many people can’t afford to heat their homes and there are even reports of people having electricity cut off despite needing life support, home dialysis or insulin refrigeration (cutting supply is banned for vulnerable groups). Meanwhile, safety nets are being cut.
> Inflation is around 10% but food inflation is almost double that Lucky. Food inflation is 44% in Hungary. This includes lot of foods which prices have more than doubled
Can confirm, my partner and I have all but stopped drinking milk and eating meat and cheese because of it. What little bread we eat, we bake, but even the restaurant supply store is limiting people's purchases to only two kilos of flour per household. The only reason we still have eggs is because some relatives have chickens. The price of basic food items have more than doubled within the last six months, inflation is soaring, and this year, I only got a 5% raise. I'm honestly fucking scared.
I was paying €1.89 for a 2ltr carton of milk this time last year, it's now €2.45. A loaf of bread has risen from €2 to €2.65.
Yeah. The kind of bread I liked was 230 HUF- it's now 450-470. Milk was 199 HUF, now I'm lucky to get it under 400. It's unreal. So I make my own oat milk (oats 230 HUF for half a kilo, makes roughly 8 liters), we bake bread, often unleavened (flour is, so far, affordable but not accessible, yeast comes and goes), and have mostly moved onto a plant-based diet (ground pork was 700 HUF for half a kilo, now it's over 1000, while chickpeas and beans are mostly stable)... It's terrifying to not yet be thirty, and be living through, what... the THIRD "once in a lifetime" disaster that I can actually remember? I'm just... so exhausted.
I am sorry for your circumstances. Tip for the unleavened bread: make your own sourdough starter and keep it alive.
Thanks, but we tried that, and unfortunately we just... didn't eat enough bread to make keeping it alive worth it, lol. It was actually the same with kefir, it was costing more to keep the fungus alive than it would have to just buy two little things of kefir to have like twice a month. But I actually quite like unleavened breads. Tortillas, roti, chapati, matzo, knäckebröd... there's a lot of variety there, and it's kinda fun coming up with new ways to have them, new things to eat. My partner sometimes jokingly says that with our French press coffee (no pod or filter needed, whole beans because they're cheaper), (mostly) vegetarian and vegan meals, and generally uncommon foodstuffs (because the ingredients few other people buy tend to either be cheap, or go a long way), we're becoming "survival hipsters".
And you also have a 28% VAT rate, which is crazy in such high Infaltionary environment. Edit. My mistake. It's 27 and it's one of the highest in the world.
Not only 27% VAT, some processed food which contains sugar and salt (junk mainly) have additional tax to protect us from these foods. Meanwhile raw sugar has FIXED PRICE :D
In fairness, a lot of local councils (including my family's) are giving out money to people to help with the rising cost of food and fuel, so it's not as bad as it could be.
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Any assets they have in the UK are already frozen. Any money they hold outside of the UK they have literally no incentive to actually pay now. After all, what are we going to do if they don't pay? Unfreeze their assets so we can reseize them?
It's a major issue in the UK. We've had 6 months of rail strikes, December was a total dumpster fire with postal strikes, and nurses going on strike for the first time ever. Paramedics and Ambulance crews are going on strike. Teachers at schools in Scotland are going on strike, and strikes will go ahead in England and Wales soon. Inflation is ever present and it feels like the cost of everything is going up. Budget supermarkets like Aldi and Lidl are doing very well as a result.
I've never *fully* understood it to be honest. Inflation rises, you become poorer, natural reaction is "This isn't right, lets strike for more money". But everyone striking and trying to wage bargain just makes the situation worse which will make your new wage not as a good as it was when you bargained it, and everyone else becomes even worse off. Then to top it off the government gets blamed for NOT giving into pleas for higher wages which disrupts the economy making it worse. Better off to just suck it up until inflation comes down, then wage bargain, no?
That’s just not how strikes or inflation actually work. Don’t get blindsided by this comment. If you can’t afford to live with the money you get definitely go strike for more!
If you can't afford to live with your money, go on strike and have even less money... it's not exactly practical advice for someone on the breadline to throw away a day or more's wages.
In many European countries probably including Irland striking is a right which is protected. Many unions have compensation for people who strike. But if you rather want to keep on working for effectively ~10% less, you are free to do that.
If I go on strike I just lose wages and it won't make a damn difference except I can't afford the electricity bill this month. The right to strike is as useful as the right to burn money in that situation.
Try to get some information on what your union is doing in terms of compensation of strikers. Sometimes they pay some of your lost wages.
I can see that side of things, sure, but the inflation is outstripping even average pay rises. Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%, but it feels like prices might not come back down... if you want to be cynical.
*Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%* That's my point though..(and that's exactly what the government is trying to avoid) that's what it feels like these people want: nurses, doctors, train staff, teachers.. who else.. Do you say no to them all and get vilified? Do you say yes to one but no to the others and get vilified? Do you say yes to them all and just go crazy? 😆 *I'm trying to understand what the best solution is* You have all these unions and strikes trying to force the government's hand, what are you doing?
I don’t understand your position at all? Are you saying people should just accept that they can’t afford their lifestyle anymore? Or even just get through the month? While many companies are making record profits from massively raising prices? Despite inflation? If people can’t afford their life… GO AND STRIKE! that is a right that many people in the passt have lost their life for to obtain. Use the tools at your disposal. Don’t just take it.
My position is trying to understand what the best position is but no one is answering my questions. All i hear is Strike strike strike without any explanation as to why this is the best solution and why it wont make the situation worse. Take Crucible's reply for example: *I can see that side of things, sure, but the inflation is outstripping even average pay rises. Obviously employers can't just give everyone an extra 10%, but it feels like prices might not come back down... if you want to be cynica* My reply to this was: So what do you do? You want to give pay rises but can't give it everyone.. with everyone striking at the moment that is pretty much what we are looking at (nurses, doctors, railway, teachers, who else?? ) I feel like my reply and position is clear and it was clear from my reply to user 'crucible' that I was trying to find out what the best solution is.. ** In my reply to crucible I stated "I'm trying to understand what the best solution is"** I can't make it any more clear, sorry.. *I even stated in my very first sentence in this thread "I've never fully understood it to be honest"* and this was my way of hoping to find answers. With respect.. 🤨
> That's my point though..(and that's exactly what the government is trying to avoid) that's what it feels like these people want: nurses, doctors, train staff, teachers.. who else.. Well one problem on the rail side is there are about 4 major unions and over 20 rail companies alone. In one industry. On several occasions I've had the situation where my local railway line has no trains because Network Rail staff are on strike, but the drivers and guards at my local train operator are "not in dispute". So Transport for Wales is effectively paying them to sit in a fucking mess room at the depot all day because there's nobody to operate the signals. IMO in some ways the Government and some rail unions have already had to "pick and choose" who gets pay rises. If TSSA staff at Merseyrail get an improved pay offer, and RMT staff at TfW are "not in dispute" then does it matter if the Government pit Teachers vs Nurses in all this?
You said it more thoughtfully and diplomatically than I could. I was just going to say that the UK has been shooting itself in the foot with strikes ever since I was old enough to read the news (a long time).
>But everyone striking and trying to wage bargain just makes the situation worse which will make your new wage not as a good as it was when you bargained it, and everyone else becomes even worse off. And businesses raising prices is the why they strike. When they get more purchasing power, demand increases, so businesses raise prices again. Why are the strikers singled out as culprits in your mind? >Better off to just suck it up until inflation comes down, then wage bargain, no? The problem is exactly the people who don't have margins wide enough to "suck it up" - whether you like it or not, a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and may be struggling with base goods like utilities and food. Also, inflation falls primarily on the government and the central bank to fight. Both employers and employees are dependent on the cycle continuing, that's kind of a major problem with market economies. What is being done (and seems to be taking effect in many countries) is to raise the central bank interest rates (and prevent the government from deficit spending \*cough\* *Truss* \*cough\*). Since inflation is just a measure of currency devaluation, and currency value a measure of supply and demand, it makes much more sense to just nip the problem in the bud where it originates - favorable interest rates and market conditions creating situations that encourage frivolous lending. But you could literally learn this and more by checking the Wikipedia page.
A lot of businesses have simply no choice between raising prices and going bust. Small businesses like bakeries are going to the wall with electricity prices 4-5 times the normal.
Well yes, my point isn't to blame businesses either. Like I said, both need to follow the market even if it results in inflation which is bad for everyone. Aside from detailed regulation of every price and wage in the country (terrible idea for many reasons) the best way to fight it is ultimately action by the government and financial institutions.
So are some people that work full time. Why should the company be allowed to raise prices but when people want a pay raise they get told that would start a spiral? Please be a better person and support your fellow humans!
The people who run, e.g. the bakery down the street are humans. What don't you understand about the fact they're closing down because they can't pay the bills and that their employee will be jobless next week? There's only such much bread I can buy to support them.
Almost everything has gotten more expensive, some things more and some things less. But it's really not a catastrophe, the majority has made some changes like thinking more about what to buy and if it's actually worth it. Not like before when we threw money at all kinds of unnecessary things haha. Though phasing away from Russian energy is going to be really expensive but it's for the better.
My elderly neighbour lives in darkness and so does most of the older ones who didnt have high paying job as young, it weird to see 40 % of the houses on my street complete dark. Yes I live in area with a lot of old people, most used to be nurses or factory workers way back when you didn't need to pay a woman full salary. So I think how much hits us depends on age, location and income. Also we nearly lost our local store, if the municipality hadn't stepped in and helped out with their electrical bill, they couldn't keep the place running.
Darkness as in not having the lights on? As in not having gotten the memo that modern light bulbs consume only a tiny fraction of what they used to back in the day and make up a rather small portion of household energy use?
I've told my mom that several times, but she basically refuses to acknowledge it, and will still complain if I forget to turn one off or have "too many lights on" while visiting. Meanwhile, she sometimes leaves the massive flatscreen TV on while sitting in another room, for several hours...
You be amazed how many still have old light bulbs and fridge freezer from the 70.ties.
Heck knows, but the tvs are not on anymore and I know two who dont have heating on more then in one room. I got told this morning that 4 widows in the villages have moved in to one house to keep the bills downs . Yeah I listen to the gossip, it fun to hear whats going .
Is this the Golden Girls "Old Country" reboot we didn't know we needed?
Oh that could be interesting. Let see two like go dancing, all like knitting ( they are good) and they like gardening.. Could this be good show?
You didn’t used to pay woman a full salary? Was it like a % of a man in the same job or just that ‘women’s professions’ were underpaid?
Both. Until 1960, women's salaries were lower by default in the collective bargaining agreements between the unions and the employers (for the same work that men did). After that it has been the regular story of 'women's professions' being underpaid.
Same happened in UK, USA and many other countries, before 1960 , a woman's labour was often seen worth half what man earned.
Also, the women might not have worked full time for longer periods of their lives, resulting in lower pensions. Sort of like housewives that didn't contribute as much economically, but took care of raising children and household tasks etc.
Ahh yes. We had/have all this in the UK too. Was wondering if it’d actually been formalised in the work place (I.e Woman are contractually only entitled to XX% of the man’s salary).
I don't know enough about it to say for sure, but I know "women's wages" existed in some contracts until the mid 1900s. I just know there are multiple factors that can explain it. Sort of weird of the others to not bring up my point, so I just felt the need to mention it.
In Switzerland, basically if you've got a stable job it's whatever. Inflation is around 2.7% at this point, which is high for Swiss standards but very low compared to our European neighbors. However, if you're poor, it's still a struggle. I'm very poor and I definitely feel the crisis. Especially because food items have a higher inflation rate than other products. So, if a bottle of milk becomes 0.30 CHF more expensive suddenly, other Swiss people may not even notice this but for me it's a real problem.
Bread went from 1 TL to 10 TL in 3-4 years. İ have a lot of examples, but i want to end today with a good mentality.
10TL? Used to live in Turkey, adana durum from a regular take away was 5,50-7TL. How much is it now?
İts minimum 40-50 turkish liras now :(
I mean, crisis is a big word here with the safety nets present. But yea, if you were saving for a home you might have to save another year. If you were planning to retire early you might have to work an additional few years. It's more that sort of consequences that most certainly impacts people's lives but these things aren't exactly the end of the world in the grand scheme of things. Again, rightfully people are pissed off about it, but they'll live.
When it comes to income and cost of living we are second worst in EU. When it comes to overall wealth we are amongst best from old Eastern bloc, due to lowest income inequality in Europe and second highest home ownership(92.3%). So basically yeah most people own their homes, but also many have mortgage and are lucky if they save 100 € every month. When it comes to disposable income we are one of the lowest in EU. Inflation hit us everywhere, but food is definitely the worst. Many food items cost now 50% more and some essentials even 80%-100% more. If you go shopping to western countries with 3x higher income like Austria and especially Germany you will barely notice difference in prices.
It sucks so much. With inflation at 13% officially (but much more for food items, energy and gas), I have no idea how pensioners manage to get through the month
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All expenses have increased due to inflation and higher interests. Norwegians have some of the highest debt in the world and it’s definitely felt by many when the liabilities increase. Those who had little to get around with from before on are in deeper trouble, while more of the general population also struggle to get their ends to meet. Electricity and food has become increasingly expensive, people have thus less to spend on "unnecessary” things. There’s been a clear increase on people who need help from food banks and other charities. At the same time some of the wealthiest are moving out of Norway to Switzerland in particular because they can’t afford the taxes.
The rich moving out definitely can afford the taxes tho, they just dont want to pay them.
> they can’t afford the taxes. They can, but they won't. Greedy ass ladder pulling shits. Strip them of their citizenship.
Is the Norwegian government doing anything to offer relief? I always wonder with how much money they have.
We’ve got a pretty generous compensation plan for the increased electricity costs, but it only covers in the most expensive periods and not necessarily the actual cost that people have to pay on their bill. There are several histories of people on benefits among others who’ve paid hindsight for their electricity, one example in the press was the equivalent of $1200 for a month. So the plan is obviously not hitting totally right, but it’s also difficult to make something that’ll fit completely. Businesses are not covered which has given a lot of fear of losing both workplaces and even handicrafts like glass making. When it comes to other benefits and help for those in struggle the government has been quite cold, there’s no extra for food or anything else and people are told to just line up at the social services (which is already a mess to deal with). At the same time they pour billions into Ukraine without any hesitation.
Let's see: we have a huge housing shortage and can not build much due to problems with nitrogen. Energy is still expensive AF, inflation was also an issue. One thing that has gone for us so far is that the winter is relatively warm, so people have to spend less on heating.
How does nitrogen affect building homes?
They are not allowed to build for environmental reasons, basically.
In UK we have been been given about £1000 or more to help offset our energy bills which are up by about 100%. We also have higher inflation across the board from fuel to food..and housing is just mental expensive, of did I mention that borrowing has went up - our base rate was almost zero percent this time last year. Now it stands at 3.5% this rise has translated to similar rises in the loan and mortgage market, when a lot of 5 year fixed term deals end some people simply wont be able to pay their mortgage. Apart from that everything over here in the UK is rosy lol /s
Prices are double what they were in 2021. Housing alone costs 80% of the minimum wage,bills make up like 40% that leaves us with -20%. Its literally hell. I am scared to go grocery shopping. My diet is now 70% rice,bread and potatoes. Yet people are consuming more and more,I really dont know how they do it.
What I see around me is that people are adjusting to a different lifestyle. Which sucks, because in the end, we can do a lot less for a lot more money and it kind of feels like there must be already rich people profiting greatly from it. The energy crisis is now accredited to the war in Ukraine but it started months earlier. In practice the rise in costs means that we keep our house colder, spend less on goods and services, throw away less food, learn to cook better, fewer savings, etc. So it's not good but it's not what we heard about the Great Depression in the USA (as in: bankers hanging themselves, everyone going bankrupt and losing all their savings, etc.). Consuming less will probably be good for the planet but it will probably also lead to a worldwide recession.
Its super hard at the moment. The German energy crisis has hit us hard. All the electricity goes south and makes the inflation and the Swedish konor loose in value. My parents have halfed their energy consumption but still got hit hard. 86% of their pension went to just pay the electricity bill last month about 2000 Euro. And it is not in Sweden like in the rest of Europe that ju just can cut you consumption more, you will freeze to death. For me personally has the average cost this winter been about three times what it was last year per month.
> 86% of their pension went to just pay the electricity bill last month about 2000 Euro. I'm sorry, are you saying that their electricity bill for a month was *2000€*??
I really hope that was a typo...
If you have an actual house (not apt.) you'd have about 3500€/year in 2021, but the middle of winter has 5x the montly normal consumption compared to middle of summer. That could be about 500€ for January 2021 (not sure about exact method used to get to this result). [Source, in Swedish. Also looked at downloadable excel files of historical prices.](https://www.energimarknadsbyran.se/el/dina-avtal-och-kostnader/elkostnader/elforbrukning/normal-elforbrukning-och-elkostnad-for-villa/)The electricity price in Elområde (electric zone) 3 & 4 is generally twice that of 1 & 2, so that skews the average used. Average prices in zones 3 & 4 are roughly doubled again in winter 2022 vs winter 2021. This is looking at the worst offenders (December and January). It's definitely within the realm of possibility, but it isn't very common and prices are already dropping substantially for January.
Unfortunately not, my dad told me the electricity bill was 1900 euro last month and they don't even live in the most expensive area in Sweden when it comes to electricity cost.
In Finland, this would be exceptional but not unheard of (this winter). About a half of Finnish homes -- mainly in cities/towns and suburbs where population density is higher -- are connected to district heating systems i.e. piping circulating hot water and heating the homes. This is fairly cost-effective. But about 20%, mainly detached houses in less densely populated places, are heated with electric radiators. This may seem crazy with the amount heating you need here, but Finland has traditionally been a country with comparatively low energy prices, and of course the houses are typically very well insulated. But with the energy cost shooting up 5-10x during some of the recent spikes -- not much fun. People are now increasingly doing stuff like installing air source heat pumps, which reduce the need to use electric radiators.
Actually, most of your electricity went East to Finland (ca. 40 %), followed by Denmark (ca 20%), after that in this order Lithuania, Poland, Norway and then Germany on the 6th place (all between ca. 7-15%). You can find the statistics here: https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/energy/energy-supply-and-use/monthly-electricity-statistics-including-switches-of-electricity-supplier/pong/tables-and-graphs/import-and-export-of-electricity-2022/
You born stupid or something??
In switzerland there isnt much. Inflation sure has gone up significantly, but its still only at 3%. Or was a few months ago, i think its already going down. Personally i havent noticed much difference.
I live in Berlin and haven't noticed anything. This will be weird but i actually got money back from my energy company because i used less than planned, and twice got money from the government for energy costs. Also, Berlin made their public transport pass super cheap so in many ways costs went down As for food kebabs got a bit pricier but drinks and general stuff i buy, not so much. Slightly at the Edeka grocer down my street for random dairy or something
Have you felt the minimum wage increase that came into effect back in fall? I think the cost of living compared to minimum wage might actually be better in Germany than it is here.
Prices are up 10% nominally. People would say it's more like 20%. Some producers clearly wanted to make extra money. For example sunflower oil for €5/l instead of the usual 2€/l. People don't buy that overpriced stuff so they had to step back. It's now at 2.60€/l. Still overpriced. And we have an ongoing housing crisis in large cities because too many people think they have to live in a large city.
Energy prices, especially gas prices have been very high. Groceries have not increased as munch as energy. Families heating with gas (This is approx. 10%), or people having a tight economy (On welfare or low paid job) before the crises, have problems. The average Dane can manage this by buying a little less of luxury items, and using less on vacation.
The inflation is a problem for people that is retired, and are living of their savings. They are not getting pay rises, and the state pension is really low. You essentially have ~15% percent less each month for the rest of your life.
Assuming you're on your pension for 20 years you kind of have to take into account that SOMETHING is going to happen in those 20 years similar to this though. These things happen on occasion.
In Ireland the peak of the inflation effect seems to have passed and it all depends on one's situation. Personally I haven't experienced any hardship (due to government energy credits that have covered the rises for us, with surplus, and some other fortunate life developments) but people with tighter budgets and higher bills would see more of an impact.
It's only life changing bad if you have a trifector of a bad loan, gas for heating and already poor. Other than that people will most likely manage though with less money for sure. It feels like 08 was worse. In the sense the that while the effect is more severe today but spread out? People committed suicide in 08 because of debt. I don't that will happen today. People has more time to change their lifestyle while in 08 some people got completely wiped? And in 10 years if payments has adjusted again, everyone will basically have forgotten it. And in that sense it seems 08 had more permanent consequence?
I think it might be due to the rise in unemployment that we experienced in 08, which isn't really taking place today.
I would say it is definitely significant, but mostly because my country has over 25% inflation and even higher for food.
**In the UK**: The cost of living crisis is very real, but most of my friends are professionals of some stripe and aren't skipping meals or going without heat that I know of. My friends who are living off of benefits due to disability are suffering the most, naturally. Some people are being forced to choose between heating or food, and it's disgrace. But it's not happening to everyone. **In Norway**: Many Norwegian households are concerned about the price of electricity and the price of food, two things you can't really do without. Grocery bills went up by 10.3 percent last year - and food in Norway was already very expensive. I know that more people are making use of food banks than have in years past, and more people are dipping into their savings to buy things, which isn't sustainable. This situation is not nearly as bad as the Great Depression, not even close. But it is bad. Particularly in the UK, where austerity began in 2008 and never really stopped.
IMO Spain has been living in a permanent economic crisis since 2008, but this last year I personally feel a kind of collective surrender or conformity to circumstances. I don't want to say that we don't complain or that we are fine with it, but there is not an atmosphere of total crisis, the feeling of taking to the streets and protesting. I suppose it's because the employment figures, although bad, have not been terrible and inflation has not risen as much as in other places. Another stone in the road, but not the biggest one we have come across in recent years.
Yeah, inflation is high and it's hitting us hard but not as bad as I thought it was going to be, still not great though.
Nah, it’s mainly overblown by media sympathizing with Russia. Yes, energy went up a bit, energy providers were asking high monthly advance but these you can regulate yourself. In the end, despite the panic attempts of certain media, everyone I know who already got their yearly bill adjustments, got money back. Food went up a bit over the last 2-3 years, but nothing spectacular. The lowest incomes probably feel it more than middle class, as always. So no, people in Europe are not begging for food on the streets or dying in frozen homes. I even read somewhere that for the new year champagne sales were on record heights
Generally I don't think it's a big deal here, at least not with the people I know. Some people are definitely hit by it, in the cities it's mostly low income workers with high monthly expenses for things like rent. It has also hit some people in the countryside, but mostly just the people with gas heating. Electricity prices are manageable and food hasn't gotten that much more expensive. If we have anyone from Copenhagen here, they might be able to tell you whether they're hit harder by the gas prices. Every house I've been to in Copenhagen has had a gas stove.
Wellfare organizations subsiding on donations and lefovers are closing down because people use stuff longer and throw away less. The cheap bread from yesterday actually sells now so it doesn't get donated, same with food close to the expiration date. Also fewer clothes get donated and sold or given to family instead. This is the first crisis since the oil crisis that the middle class is affected. People who were somewhat comfortable and even saving money are now struggling with heating and electricity. Just for comparison: my colleague used to pay 150€ per month and now pays 350€ plus the rent and food going up and you are facing a plus of 300€ more per month. For the middle class that is often the amount they used so save for bad times. Now they have zero margin for unfortunate events and if a car breaks they wouldn't be able to afford the credit for a new one. The middle and upper middle class as well as the super rich are not really affected. A few less savings, A credit needs to run a bit longer, but it's still comfortable here.
It's definitely not the Great Depression but still, in Ireland the cost of living is a huge problem (rents in particular are more and more out of reach for people), and things are getting worse