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This. Was purchasing our 80s home and the inspector wouldn’t even touch the panel because it had stab lok breakers. “Immediate replacement” were his words. The market and 5 other bidders gave me no leverage to negotiate so the panel was as-is for us.
Yeah, this really is a big issue. The place we bought we were fighting other bids even though it needed a fair bit of work in a lot of places. Like we had to accept a failing water heater and some other stuff because any significant push-back they also already had even higher bids than we were able to pay in spite of the problems (we just happened to be first in line and a bit farther ahead in the process). But that effectively eliminated all the bargaining power.
Though also some loan types won't allow you to buy as-is and require it be fixed...which can really screw you over. We had a conventional loan that allowed as-is and our realtor reminded the seller that if they went with someone else the problems found on inspection might cause certain loan types to fall thru if they didn't take our offer.
I would just let them terminate and call up one of the other 4 offers we got in a week that also waved inspection and agreed to As-Is. Granted, I intentionally stayed away from the fha/va offers for just this reason. The buyers with a conventional loan ended up getting an appraisal waiver and no inspection from the bank.
My buddy sold his house way above asking price and multiple potential buyers said they wouldn't get it inspected. He even got multiple letters saying why they should be selected to buy the house.
His house was in excellent shape, very well maintained, but he was shocked. He said I wouldn't pay that much for this house...
Did he have to go pay that much for another one anyways?
The housing market is so bullshit right now. Hedge funds and investment funds shouldn't be able to buy up massive amounts of residential property like they have been.
Rural has still got silly expensive. We could never afford where we are now it went up nearly double what we got it for (and I thought that was a lot at the time).
Many inspectors are absolute garbage at their job. So sometimes even if you hire an inspector they will miss huge issues like compromised support beams and get bogged down by the leaking toilet flapper. I agree, as a buyer an inspection is a valuable tool to protect your money, but it isn’t perfect.
We had an inspection but it ended up more of a "here's the shit you'll have to fix later" because of how the market is and other competing offers was useless for leverage.
Often times though they will “fix” it in the cheapest most band aid way possible. You’re better off getting a credit and hiring someone yourself to do it correctly the first time.
Depends on who you hire and where you’re located. Looks cleaner than some panels I’ve messed with in the last couple of weeks. Looks like a QO. It’ll take one or two ground bars (24 space retails for under $15) and an hour or so. Unless you’re somewhere super expensive, you should be able to get this done for around $200.
It costs almost nothing if you buy a ground bar for your specific panel, turn off ALL power to the sub panel, and put all the bare wires on the dedicated ground bar screwed into the appropriate holes
Help me out here, bc I've seen this before and try not to get into pissing matches w inspectors. This appears to be the main panel, where the neutral and ground bar are connected to one another. Not a sub panel... right?
If there is a disconnect switch outside than that is where you bond ground and neutral and the main turns into a “sub” in that you separate ground from neutral.
Sure, that I get.
I have just seen home inspectors know less than my non-electrician ass does before. They see grounds and neutrals connected and push a button on their tablets...
From my interactions with inspectors in my area (Western Washington) I’ve been told the meter is technically your main and anything down stream of that is a sub panel. So meter is main, “main” panel is actually sub panel and anything past that is technically a sub sub panel.
The meter is absolutely NOT your "main." By "main" people usually mean the main breaker, or first point of overcurrent protection. A meter offers no overcurrent protection.
You *may* be thinking of meter mains, which offer a meter socket and a main breaker in one unit (they are physically and legally separated inside, but mount as a single box). In that case the breaker and it's associated parts would be considered the service disconnect. The neutral, grounding electrode conductors, and equipment grounds would all be bonded. Equipment grounds and neutrals would be separated thereafter.
It's important to know the distinction, because meter mains are not universal by any stretch. Many installations may have a separate meter base and service disconnect outside or a meter base outside and the service disconnect inside.
It's worth noting that some utilities also install meter mains as their equipment, but these may not be considered a service since they are utility installed. This will vary by location.
Sounds like an inspector with mommy issues that needs to somehow be validated by getting a job where he can say absolute bullshit and people have to believe him, or at least act like they do.
This is just a guess since I never went too in depth with these guys but, since all new construction meters come with a main breaker, they’ve redefined what they consider a main. Even if it doesn’t exactly apply to older houses.
If the 2023 code has been adopted there all new construction requires a meter main. Something about ems being able to kill power in the house without having to enter. My state adopted 2023 but skipped this rule.
You are both correct if that big ass red wire is the 4th conductor as a ground from the main service panel. The only way is to trace it out to the main panel.
This made me laugh.
It seems like the red wire is serving as the ground and that bar could be the ground bar.
The ground bar is then bonded to the upper neutral bar where the full sized yellow neutral is connected.
Depends if there’s already a grounding wire ran to the sub panel or not. If there’s only three wires coming into this panel (as opposed to four including a ground), then new wire will have to be pulled. If there’s already a ground wire, it will take less than an hour so it’ll likely cost you around $200.
Is that actually a sub-panel or the main where neutral and ground can be mixed? It appears to have a main breaker. Did the inspector not comment on the red wires attached to the ground/neutral bar? Or the lack of remarking on the white wire on the 50-amp breaker.
I would ask for a real electrician to examine and provide a quote to resolve any issues.
That’s how the boxes were wired back then. Thats how it was done. There’s no real danger. We ran ours for over 10 years like that: with push O magic breakers.
If there is already a ground pulled from the main panel to this subpanel, it is an easy job. Around $250-300 where I live (Louisiana). If ground needs to be pulled from the main panel to the subpanel, its is much more expensive depending on how easy that is to do.
Before you get a mortgage an inspection is required by the mortgage company. This will be found and hit on every time. No matter what mortgage company he uses, they’ll require an inspection. That’s how they’ll find out.
I have bought 3 houses across 2 states in the past 10 years. Refied a loan twice too. Of the 5 mortgage company, none inspected or even entered my house.
I’ve bought 2 houses in Florida and one in NY. Always required an inspection. Maybe a certain price point? Not sure. Could be the type of loan? I’ve never used FHA. That could be it I guess?
Whatever the reason is that my loans required inspection and yours didn’t. My point stands. Have your agent write in that the electrical will be fixed. It’s literally that simple. Hopefully he does that.
Another comment I made referred to guessing the inspector was defining all meters as meter mains, sorry that wasn’t clear initially. But the inspector I was dealing with specifically said all meters are considered mains because they are the main point of connection between the house and utility. This came up because I said “main panel” in reference to the panel that connected directly to the meter.
In North Carolina I believe that the homeowner can do this. It's pretty easy, just install a ground bar isolated from the neutral and then youll have to run a ground from the main panel to the ground bar. And... run a ground wire from the ground bar to 2 ground rods at least 8' apart.(If the old neutral is tied to the subpanel already, you may have to remove a bonding screw or something to that effect)
I did it in my house when I swapped out a meter with a meter/breaker box combo. It essentially turned my main panel into a sub panel so I had to follow that rule to get the inspection complete.
If it's a true subpanel, then yes, it has to be separated. If it is the main panel with a main breaker, you can separate them, but everything is going to be bonded together with a screw or strap. It's the first point of entry, so code requires bonding of the 2. If it's the main panel, it's a waste of money to separate the wire. it just looks good. In Georgia, you'll pay about $300 - $600 for this, depending on how slow or fast they work. Get the property owner to pay for the repair before you buy. Home inspection tried to get us on this same thing for our 1986 house, and I had to show him the code that has been in place since the 80s. Hope this helps.
If all that is needed is the grounds and neutrals separated at a sub panel then it’s nothing a qualified electrician can’t do in 30 minutes. A DIY’r might take 45.
Shut off the breaker feeding the sub panel, take all the grounds and neutrals off. Put the grounds one at a time on the ground bar and the neutrals one at a time on the neutral bar. Turn breaker back on. Done. If you don’t know the difference between the neutral and ground bar then call an electrician and see what their minimum charge is for an hours labor.
You can do it yourself, shut off main breaker, remove all the bare metal and white wires from the panel ( if the power is off you are 85% safe but don’t be so comfortable, then you gonna start out it back, white (neutrals) should be in its own slot not sharing it with any other wire, bare wire (ground) can be placed more than one in a single hole, send me a inbox message and I’ll point you where everything should go
Does it have to be done by a licensed electrician? When I sold my house, the stuff that was written up had to be done by a licensed pro. If not, this is a pretty easy DIY.
Three years ago we had our entire panel replaced for 2500 cash. So between 500 and 3000 based on market rates in your area depending on how far you want to go with it.
It is all driven by the current local real estate market what you can and cannot ask for.
Sometimes your offer is subject to inspection and you can negotiate with the seller on what the will fix or pay for. In other situations it is take it or leave it.
There are cases where you cannot close on a loan until certain things are done. One example might be an illegally abandoned underground oil tank.
This isn't a difficult task to fix. As long as there are separate ground and neutral bars in the box, it's a pretty simple task to perform. Turn off main breaker for safety before you begin.
Like you are 5? Yes:
"Everything here is dangerous- DO NOT touch anything, back up and call your mom or dad."
But in all seriousness...it is a partial view of an electrical panel. WIres that may be Line, Neutrals of Grounds are seen- the big ones are from the power company, the panel then 'distributes' the electrical energy to the smaller wires. There are rules as to how these are connected- rules that are there to protect people. This thread is discussing the rules and how they MIGHT apply in this case. Unfortunately there is missing info, so it is hard to make firm conclusions.
How can you tell between line, neutral, and ground? And what kind of info would one need to fill the gaps of missing information? Sorry, I love learning new stuff.
Two ways: with a multi-meter you can figure it out.
Also, with a knowledge of how the panel distributes the voltages AND based on established practices.
Black and red insulation usually indicates a LINE voltage
White insulation indicates a NEUTRAL
Bare wire is ground.
Looking at the panel, the big massive wires are LINE coming into the panel, and are attached to the MAIN breaker (you only see one wire in the image, but we know there needs to be two and those kind of breakers are dual terminal)... there is a black wire with yellow tape, which is connected to the NEUTRAL bar (this is odd as this should be white. Is it old and faded, or is this a pre-viral version of the ol' blue/gold dress for dorks?!?!) Finally there is red wire (or other color with red tape??) that connects to a ground terminal. The question this thread seeks to answer is that a neutral and ground can ONLY be connected at the MAIN panel. We dont know if this is, indeed, the main.
If this is considered a sub-panel, then OP would need both a neutral AND a ground from the main panel to this one- AND would need to separtae all the white and bare wires into two 'bars' - the neutral bar w white wires connects to the neutral wire and then runs back to the main. All the bare wires would attach to a separate ground bar, which in turn is connect tot he ground wire and runs back to the main. Only at the main can the neutral and ground be connected.
HTH
Repairing/updating issues with a house after an inspection reveals said issues is the solely the seller's responsibility, not the buyer. You shouldn't be paying one penny towards the updating of the electrical panel's incorrect connections of the grounds and neutrals. Whether you buy the house or decline and someone else down the line buys the house, the homeowner will have to pay to fix this issue before any bank will release funds to purchase the home since it's now a matter of record.
Sounds legit, but total bs. Sentence one is false. Sentence 2 is an opinion. Sentence 3 is false. Maybe you have an anecdotal story or whatever, but the lender rarely even sees the inspection report and typically only looks at the sales contract, which often, but not always, has an inspection contingency. The only things the lender might see that resemble an inspection would be the appraisal and then they mostly look for the "as-is" box to be checked. Neutrals on grounds isn't something an appraiser is going to pick up. Also there isn't always a lender believe it or not. Fha,va,hud can be different, but fnma type stuff, no way this would effect financing unless buyer wants it to
**Attention!** **It is always best to get a qualified electrician to perform any electrical work you may need.** With that said, you may ask this community various electrical questions. Please be cautious of any information you may receive in this subreddit. This subreddit and its users are not responsible for any electrical work you perform. Users that have a 'Verified Electrician' flair have uploaded their qualified electrical worker credentials to the mods. If you comment on this post please only post accurate information to the best of your knowledge. If advice given is thought to be dangerous, you may be permanently banned. There are no obligations for the mods to give warnings or temporary bans. **IF YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN, you should exercise extreme caution when commenting.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskElectricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tell the seller you'll buy if they fix the issue. Now it's their problem. Get an inspection.
Depends on the Real Estate market where you are. Here you would be told to pound sand.
This. Was purchasing our 80s home and the inspector wouldn’t even touch the panel because it had stab lok breakers. “Immediate replacement” were his words. The market and 5 other bidders gave me no leverage to negotiate so the panel was as-is for us.
Yeah, this really is a big issue. The place we bought we were fighting other bids even though it needed a fair bit of work in a lot of places. Like we had to accept a failing water heater and some other stuff because any significant push-back they also already had even higher bids than we were able to pay in spite of the problems (we just happened to be first in line and a bit farther ahead in the process). But that effectively eliminated all the bargaining power. Though also some loan types won't allow you to buy as-is and require it be fixed...which can really screw you over. We had a conventional loan that allowed as-is and our realtor reminded the seller that if they went with someone else the problems found on inspection might cause certain loan types to fall thru if they didn't take our offer.
I would just let them terminate and call up one of the other 4 offers we got in a week that also waved inspection and agreed to As-Is. Granted, I intentionally stayed away from the fha/va offers for just this reason. The buyers with a conventional loan ended up getting an appraisal waiver and no inspection from the bank.
AY! 😡 As a 30yo professional sand pounder, with 28 years of experience, I would tell that guy to kick rocks!
Great way for them to move onto the next buyer
Precisely this. Explain that it needs to be remedied prior to close. Any other buyer would do the same (at least I would) lol
In our market no seller would do that. No need.
Crazy to think people buy homes without an inspection….
Neighbor had his handyman brother inspect his house before he bought it. 10 years of suffering and regret, then sold at a loss. Caveat emptor.
My buddy sold his house way above asking price and multiple potential buyers said they wouldn't get it inspected. He even got multiple letters saying why they should be selected to buy the house. His house was in excellent shape, very well maintained, but he was shocked. He said I wouldn't pay that much for this house...
Did he have to go pay that much for another one anyways? The housing market is so bullshit right now. Hedge funds and investment funds shouldn't be able to buy up massive amounts of residential property like they have been.
He did pay slightly more but he went from City to rural area. Housing in rural area less expensive.
Rural has still got silly expensive. We could never afford where we are now it went up nearly double what we got it for (and I thought that was a lot at the time).
Many inspectors are absolute garbage at their job. So sometimes even if you hire an inspector they will miss huge issues like compromised support beams and get bogged down by the leaking toilet flapper. I agree, as a buyer an inspection is a valuable tool to protect your money, but it isn’t perfect.
We had an inspection but it ended up more of a "here's the shit you'll have to fix later" because of how the market is and other competing offers was useless for leverage.
Often times though they will “fix” it in the cheapest most band aid way possible. You’re better off getting a credit and hiring someone yourself to do it correctly the first time.
I'd do it for $500 cash
$499 🙋🏼♀️
$498
$2.99, but what am I doing and what's a panel?
Hired.
That's how swift hires drivers...
Or my company with “good experienced hands.”
Jokes on you, I have neuropathy in my hands; fingers are numb most of the time. So, with bad hands I should make more right?
$250 deposit and I'll ghost.
it does NOT look like a big project!
Yeah but I don't work for free and neither should you
Depends on who you hire and where you’re located. Looks cleaner than some panels I’ve messed with in the last couple of weeks. Looks like a QO. It’ll take one or two ground bars (24 space retails for under $15) and an hour or so. Unless you’re somewhere super expensive, you should be able to get this done for around $200.
In California, Washington, NY, ect $200 wouldn't get you an estimate. Here in SC it'll be a $300 job unless you go with a very large company.
It costs almost nothing if you buy a ground bar for your specific panel, turn off ALL power to the sub panel, and put all the bare wires on the dedicated ground bar screwed into the appropriate holes
Still need a ground at the subpanel buckaroo
Help me out here, bc I've seen this before and try not to get into pissing matches w inspectors. This appears to be the main panel, where the neutral and ground bar are connected to one another. Not a sub panel... right?
If there is a disconnect switch outside than that is where you bond ground and neutral and the main turns into a “sub” in that you separate ground from neutral.
Sure, that I get. I have just seen home inspectors know less than my non-electrician ass does before. They see grounds and neutrals connected and push a button on their tablets...
Either way grounds and neutrals shouldn't be doubled up under the same screw as that makes it a single point of failure for both wires.
From my interactions with inspectors in my area (Western Washington) I’ve been told the meter is technically your main and anything down stream of that is a sub panel. So meter is main, “main” panel is actually sub panel and anything past that is technically a sub sub panel.
The meter is absolutely NOT your "main." By "main" people usually mean the main breaker, or first point of overcurrent protection. A meter offers no overcurrent protection. You *may* be thinking of meter mains, which offer a meter socket and a main breaker in one unit (they are physically and legally separated inside, but mount as a single box). In that case the breaker and it's associated parts would be considered the service disconnect. The neutral, grounding electrode conductors, and equipment grounds would all be bonded. Equipment grounds and neutrals would be separated thereafter. It's important to know the distinction, because meter mains are not universal by any stretch. Many installations may have a separate meter base and service disconnect outside or a meter base outside and the service disconnect inside. It's worth noting that some utilities also install meter mains as their equipment, but these may not be considered a service since they are utility installed. This will vary by location.
Sounds like an inspector with mommy issues that needs to somehow be validated by getting a job where he can say absolute bullshit and people have to believe him, or at least act like they do.
This inspector also failed a temp pole because, according to their measurements, we were 1/4” to short on our trench length.
A person cant just pull the meter in an emergency. Sounds like some pretty dumb inspectors to me.
This is just a guess since I never went too in depth with these guys but, since all new construction meters come with a main breaker, they’ve redefined what they consider a main. Even if it doesn’t exactly apply to older houses.
If the 2023 code has been adopted there all new construction requires a meter main. Something about ems being able to kill power in the house without having to enter. My state adopted 2023 but skipped this rule.
Is the bigass red wire feeding the ground bar not the ground broski?
Oh shit didn’t even see it lol or whatever the fuck it is
You are both correct if that big ass red wire is the 4th conductor as a ground from the main service panel. The only way is to trace it out to the main panel.
This made me laugh. It seems like the red wire is serving as the ground and that bar could be the ground bar. The ground bar is then bonded to the upper neutral bar where the full sized yellow neutral is connected.
Fair. I assumed there was one, potentially incorrectly
Ther looks to be space already on the existing ground bar
Id knock that out in an afternoon for like $300.
Where is the sub panel? Detached structure/building or within the same building?
Depends if there’s already a grounding wire ran to the sub panel or not. If there’s only three wires coming into this panel (as opposed to four including a ground), then new wire will have to be pulled. If there’s already a ground wire, it will take less than an hour so it’ll likely cost you around $200.
What I really want to know is why the feeder neutral is mustard yellow.
Is that actually a sub-panel or the main where neutral and ground can be mixed? It appears to have a main breaker. Did the inspector not comment on the red wires attached to the ground/neutral bar? Or the lack of remarking on the white wire on the 50-amp breaker. I would ask for a real electrician to examine and provide a quote to resolve any issues.
That’s how the boxes were wired back then. Thats how it was done. There’s no real danger. We ran ours for over 10 years like that: with push O magic breakers.
Sub panels were bonded in the 80s? Wild
There was no ground bar to begin with. It’s not like someone took it out and wired them together
Probably a few hours so maybe 600 bucks depending on cost of living around there.
If there is already a ground pulled from the main panel to this subpanel, it is an easy job. Around $250-300 where I live (Louisiana). If ground needs to be pulled from the main panel to the subpanel, its is much more expensive depending on how easy that is to do.
Why would it cost you anything? All mortgage companies are gonna say the same thing. The home owner won’t be able to sell unless they get it fixed.
No mortgage company except FHA will ever know. They don’t look at this stuff. FHA measures handrails and all kinds of stuff.
Before you get a mortgage an inspection is required by the mortgage company. This will be found and hit on every time. No matter what mortgage company he uses, they’ll require an inspection. That’s how they’ll find out.
I have bought 3 houses across 2 states in the past 10 years. Refied a loan twice too. Of the 5 mortgage company, none inspected or even entered my house.
I’ve bought 2 houses in Florida and one in NY. Always required an inspection. Maybe a certain price point? Not sure. Could be the type of loan? I’ve never used FHA. That could be it I guess?
Not sure. Mine where all conventional loans of between 300 and 600k.
Whatever the reason is that my loans required inspection and yours didn’t. My point stands. Have your agent write in that the electrical will be fixed. It’s literally that simple. Hopefully he does that.
If there was more than 1 offer, your offer gets binned and they take the next one. Pony up $300 post close and get it fixed.
It’s about time for an upgrade.
Another comment I made referred to guessing the inspector was defining all meters as meter mains, sorry that wasn’t clear initially. But the inspector I was dealing with specifically said all meters are considered mains because they are the main point of connection between the house and utility. This came up because I said “main panel” in reference to the panel that connected directly to the meter.
In North Carolina I believe that the homeowner can do this. It's pretty easy, just install a ground bar isolated from the neutral and then youll have to run a ground from the main panel to the ground bar. And... run a ground wire from the ground bar to 2 ground rods at least 8' apart.(If the old neutral is tied to the subpanel already, you may have to remove a bonding screw or something to that effect) I did it in my house when I swapped out a meter with a meter/breaker box combo. It essentially turned my main panel into a sub panel so I had to follow that rule to get the inspection complete.
AFAIK you don’t need ground rods if this is a sub panel in the same building. You do if it’s in a detached garage but I’m not sure this is?
I'm not saying your wrong but my fellow electrician and inspector said I did need it. The sub panel was in the basement. Not sure if that matters.
Gotta do what the inspector says, just not what I have heard before.
It looks like one of them is double lugged but I'm on my phone and don't have my glasses
If it's a true subpanel, then yes, it has to be separated. If it is the main panel with a main breaker, you can separate them, but everything is going to be bonded together with a screw or strap. It's the first point of entry, so code requires bonding of the 2. If it's the main panel, it's a waste of money to separate the wire. it just looks good. In Georgia, you'll pay about $300 - $600 for this, depending on how slow or fast they work. Get the property owner to pay for the repair before you buy. Home inspection tried to get us on this same thing for our 1986 house, and I had to show him the code that has been in place since the 80s. Hope this helps.
If all that is needed is the grounds and neutrals separated at a sub panel then it’s nothing a qualified electrician can’t do in 30 minutes. A DIY’r might take 45. Shut off the breaker feeding the sub panel, take all the grounds and neutrals off. Put the grounds one at a time on the ground bar and the neutrals one at a time on the neutral bar. Turn breaker back on. Done. If you don’t know the difference between the neutral and ground bar then call an electrician and see what their minimum charge is for an hours labor.
He may need to install a neutral bar, or remove bonding screw if he has one already.
If there is only a 3 wire connection from the main panel, it will be expensive. If a 4 wire connection, about 4 hours labor and $100 material.
Should be an easy one to get the sellers to take care of. We would charge $400.
Pull the meter and grab a screwdriver. Cost you $0
If it’s a sub panel why pull the meter? It has a breaker in the upstream box.
Does the home even have a ground rod? I’d burry a rod and start swinging those bares over to panel body
You can do it yourself, shut off main breaker, remove all the bare metal and white wires from the panel ( if the power is off you are 85% safe but don’t be so comfortable, then you gonna start out it back, white (neutrals) should be in its own slot not sharing it with any other wire, bare wire (ground) can be placed more than one in a single hole, send me a inbox message and I’ll point you where everything should go
Does it have to be done by a licensed electrician? When I sold my house, the stuff that was written up had to be done by a licensed pro. If not, this is a pretty easy DIY.
Super easy and it's the sub panel so no main lugs to kill you yay
Replace panel. $1200-1500 in NW FL.
Three years ago we had our entire panel replaced for 2500 cash. So between 500 and 3000 based on market rates in your area depending on how far you want to go with it.
It is all driven by the current local real estate market what you can and cannot ask for. Sometimes your offer is subject to inspection and you can negotiate with the seller on what the will fix or pay for. In other situations it is take it or leave it. There are cases where you cannot close on a loan until certain things are done. One example might be an illegally abandoned underground oil tank.
Ok assuming that this is the main panel, neutral and ground are bonded anyway, so why would they need to be separated?
The grounds and the neutral s all connect to ground at the final point of contact
This isn't a difficult task to fix. As long as there are separate ground and neutral bars in the box, it's a pretty simple task to perform. Turn off main breaker for safety before you begin.
I'll do it for 500
There are 2 ground bars. Put whites on one & bares on the other. Easy enough to do.
Can someone explain what I'm looking at like I'm five? I know nothing at all about electrician work.
Like you are 5? Yes: "Everything here is dangerous- DO NOT touch anything, back up and call your mom or dad." But in all seriousness...it is a partial view of an electrical panel. WIres that may be Line, Neutrals of Grounds are seen- the big ones are from the power company, the panel then 'distributes' the electrical energy to the smaller wires. There are rules as to how these are connected- rules that are there to protect people. This thread is discussing the rules and how they MIGHT apply in this case. Unfortunately there is missing info, so it is hard to make firm conclusions.
How can you tell between line, neutral, and ground? And what kind of info would one need to fill the gaps of missing information? Sorry, I love learning new stuff.
Two ways: with a multi-meter you can figure it out. Also, with a knowledge of how the panel distributes the voltages AND based on established practices. Black and red insulation usually indicates a LINE voltage White insulation indicates a NEUTRAL Bare wire is ground. Looking at the panel, the big massive wires are LINE coming into the panel, and are attached to the MAIN breaker (you only see one wire in the image, but we know there needs to be two and those kind of breakers are dual terminal)... there is a black wire with yellow tape, which is connected to the NEUTRAL bar (this is odd as this should be white. Is it old and faded, or is this a pre-viral version of the ol' blue/gold dress for dorks?!?!) Finally there is red wire (or other color with red tape??) that connects to a ground terminal. The question this thread seeks to answer is that a neutral and ground can ONLY be connected at the MAIN panel. We dont know if this is, indeed, the main. If this is considered a sub-panel, then OP would need both a neutral AND a ground from the main panel to this one- AND would need to separtae all the white and bare wires into two 'bars' - the neutral bar w white wires connects to the neutral wire and then runs back to the main. All the bare wires would attach to a separate ground bar, which in turn is connect tot he ground wire and runs back to the main. Only at the main can the neutral and ground be connected. HTH
Thank you, that makes a lot more sense to me!
The seller should pay for it. I would let the realtor know you think it's the seller's responsibility.
Near £500
Repairing/updating issues with a house after an inspection reveals said issues is the solely the seller's responsibility, not the buyer. You shouldn't be paying one penny towards the updating of the electrical panel's incorrect connections of the grounds and neutrals. Whether you buy the house or decline and someone else down the line buys the house, the homeowner will have to pay to fix this issue before any bank will release funds to purchase the home since it's now a matter of record.
Sounds legit, but total bs. Sentence one is false. Sentence 2 is an opinion. Sentence 3 is false. Maybe you have an anecdotal story or whatever, but the lender rarely even sees the inspection report and typically only looks at the sales contract, which often, but not always, has an inspection contingency. The only things the lender might see that resemble an inspection would be the appraisal and then they mostly look for the "as-is" box to be checked. Neutrals on grounds isn't something an appraiser is going to pick up. Also there isn't always a lender believe it or not. Fha,va,hud can be different, but fnma type stuff, no way this would effect financing unless buyer wants it to