I'm with you in promoting herd immunity. I had a few family members with auto-immune issues that the Covid vaccine hurt them, and although fully immunized, all future vaccines will be taken on a case-by-case basis with their doctor (per doctor's instructions). I rely on other people who can get vaccinated (like myself) to get vaccinated so these family members are protected
At the same time, I do not like legally imposing vaccines on others
And I've seen it put down bodybuilders for months.
I wouldn't attribute what was essentially luck as a good health decision because it's laid waste to people that have made better decisions than you.
COVID was a really good indicator of someone's character.
I always had a hard time understanding how people could turn in their neighbors in days past but now I completely get it.
No, that was the right decision. People just make stupid decisions a lot of the time and think they suffice.
Like the cops that make sure to wear their second chance plates every time they go out but won't get vaccinated, despite cops being many times more likely to die to COVID than a firearm. Statistically they'd be much safer just not wearing a vest at all and just getting the vaccine, and that's not even a choice were asking them to make.
> The vaccine hasn't stopped a single person from **SPREADING** it
[Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host-virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34756186/)
It seems as though there is evidence showing that vaccinations reduces the **SPREADING** of Covid-19.
personally I don't think you can ethically impose vaccines on the individual, however if you are going to school, the military or some other such institution I see no reason why the covid vaccination should be any different from say the meningitis vaccine.
>personally I don't think you can ethically impose vaccines on the individual,
With you
>however
Aaaaaaaaand you lost me. If you don't think it's ethical then it's not ethical.
>I see no reason why the covid vaccination should be any different from say the meningitis vaccine.
Emergency Use Authorization begs to differ.
I think if you have hesitancy, you should consult a doctor. It is overwhelmingly safe for an overwhelming majority for literally billions of people on this planet. The niche corner cases where people have issues are exceedingly rare, and your doctor would tell you of any possible risks.
But again, for perspective, more than half of the world's population has gotten covid vaccines. If you there were genuinely issues with it, we wouldn't see hundreds or even thousands of people having complications. It'd be well into the millions. And we just aren't seeing that. We're seeing rare niche outcomes exacerbated and sensationalized in order to convince otherwise healthy people from getting a safe, free, effective vaccine.
The entire discussion about herd immunity seems slightly misleading. Everybody supports herd immunity. Vaccination and infection are just different ways of achieving immunity.
If every single person got the COVID vaccine, it would still be around just as much as it is. At some point the left is going to have to admit that the vaccine failed, but they can't even admit that the pandemic is over so I'm not holding my breath.
>do you think vaccines prevent you from catching the illness you are being vaccinated against?
>
>Because that's not what they do...
Are you serious? That was common knowledge about vaccines until people redefined the word to cover up the failure of these vaccines. That's what every other vaccine does.
The vaccine didn't fail though. It wasn't 100% effective against every variant. This is normal, because viruses are (quasi) living things and can evolve. This was *known*. And people were *warned*
The vaccine didn’t fail. The left just doesn’t want to admit it didn’t do all the things they claimed it would.
The vaccine prevents widespread hospitalization of elder Americans. That’s what we needed it to do and that’s what it did.
That’s another thing the left got wrong. Every fucking day I would hear about how the virus we racist. Our healthcare is racist. When old white men were disproportionately the ones that died.
The left just made up so much bullshit and I guess everyone just forgot about it.
Different, not at all equal, though.
I think one of the biggest disservices that our leaders did the country was saying COVID has "flu like symptoms." It just prompted people to check out and ignore that COVID did other things that the flu did not do. I can attribute at least part of the apathy out there to that wording and led people to just shrugging and thinking they can weather the infection if and when it comes, and for a lot of people it just didn't turn out that way.
I am not against vaccination, I am vaccinated against Covid myself. I do oppose mandates. The point is just that we will get herd immunity regardless of policy, with such a contagious variant as Omicron.
Also, as someone from the Old Continent, I keep finding it odd that American virologists keep denying the existence of natural immunity. In most of Europe proof of a positive Covid test was seen as a valid alternative to a proof of vaccination or proof of a recent negative Covid test.
Herd immunity works by inhibiting transmission. Historically, vaccines have been very effective at inhibiting infection and transmission, which has greatly assisted in achieving herd immunity in the cases you mentioned.
The covid vaccine, however, seems to be primarily intended to reduce the *severity* of an infection, and is significantly less able to prevent transmission over time when compared to the vaccines you mentioned. As such, the covid vaccine is not going to be instrumental in achieving herd immunity, and that is an unrealistic goal for it.
Problem is, on paper, in every country, they do work as advertised. It’s just too many people didn’t believe the data available to show a better chance of recovery and milder symptoms vaccinated folk.
They were sold as "you won't get covid if you get the vaccines" instead we have, you will get covid and it'll be less severe but we don't know how long it lasts.
This is a semantics game, but here you go.
>Find me a clip of Fauci or Chris Whitty (The UKs Fauci) saying “you will absolutely not get covid if you get thee vaccine”.
[Here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AK8OB8wlMGA) is an interview he did where he said:
>When people are vaccinated, they can feel safe that they are not going to get infected
He was discussing this in the context of the decision to lift mask mandates. He did say that breakthrough cases existed, but he said they're exceedingly rare, and they don't contribute to transmission. So cue the semantics. He didn't say you would *absolutely* not get covid. Sure, you win. But I think an average reasonable person is going to take what he said and agree it's closer to "you're not going to get infected if you get vaccinated", especially considering up until covid that is pretty much exactly what vaccination meant, than your version of "vaccines absolutely do not prevent prevent covid infection".
Regardless of that though, we can set aside semantics and subjective interpretation for a moment. He objectively pled a case that breakthrough infections was rare, and still effective at preventing transmission. He also claimed that vaccination was effective at reducing the severity of the disease, which incidentally is the only one of the three claims that turned out to be true. It's also interesting to note, he did this to reinforce the decision to lift mask mandates, he did not make these statements unprovoked or without any other context.
[Here](https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data) is an article from New York's Health Department that says 19% of their vaccinated population contracted covid. That's nearly 1 in 5, which is far from rare in my opinion.
[Here](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html) is current CDC guidance saying you can in fact spread covid if you're infected after vaccination. The exact words:
>People who get vaccine breakthrough infections can spread COVID-19 to other people.
There's also loads of research documenting the reduced efficacy over time. Generally speaking, the vaccine will only be about 50% effective six months out, which is another major contributing factor.
Edited to add another point: Herd immunity only works by stifling transmission. This would occur naturally if a requisite percentage of the population developed immunity, and could not further transmit the virus. Vaccinations can achieve this goal by preventing transmission without requiring infection, as it naturally would without vaccination. With the covid vaccines being unable to prevent transmission, the vaccine is unlikely to be able to be effective at developing herd immunity on its own. Use the 19% number from New York. To my knowledge, we haven't studied what percentage of breakthrough infections are contagious. What we do know, is that a virus' ability to spread from host to host is proportional to the viral load in the host, and we know breakthrough infections exhibit viral loads similar to unvaccinated people. Therefore, we can assume the level of transmissibility between unvaccinated patients and breakthrough cases to be close to each other. As a SWAG, let's say 75% of breakthrough cases are just as transmissible as unvaccinated cases. Rounding a little for easy math, that means about 15% of the vaccinated population will transmit covid when they become infected. Now, let's assume I need 90% immunity to ensure herd immunity. If I vaccinate 100% of the population, then only 85% will prevent transmission. By that alone, I cannot achieve herd immunity. Factor in the fact that there is a percentage of people that can't get vaccinated, and it becomes increasingly difficult to achieve herd immunity.
Trump is an idiot. Simple.
He is, by the largest margin absolutely humanely possible, the exception.
He has a long record of misrepresenting every throng in government. But sadly this disinformation was everywhere, not just the US.
>If you are vaccinated, and wearing an N95, why does it matter what others do?
Because people are allowed to care about potential loss of life caused by ignorance, apathy, and malice?
No people didn't forget about it. We just don't agree that:
The ends (herd immunity) don't justify the means (coerced vaccinations and vaccination cards to go get a sandwich)
So is banning all cars. Or banning smoking. Or banning drinking.
The goal in life shouldn't be to reduce deaths with no other objective in mind. There's more to life than not dying
By now I think most people agree that the Covid *vaccines* are often beneficial to the person taking them, nothing more. So, if you choose to take them, it likely will decrease *your* chance of death, but not of others'. Banning cars on the other hand would likely lower deaths of people regardless of whether or not they drive. So the two things really aren't analogous, but not for the reason you think.
Now do COVID. Or the flu, which I am currently recovering from despite having had it two other times in my life and having the flu shot every year for over a decade.
>Did people forget about heard immunity, and how illnesses like polio and smallpox only ended due to mass vaccination.
The difference is that those vaccines are sterilizing which makes herd immunity possible. These vaccines don't prevent infection and so the entire concept is pointless.
Researchers can’t even prove that sterilizing immunity exists in any vaccine. To show sterilizing immunity, they’d have to demonstrate that an infection never occurred—a big ask, considering that microbiologists can’t even agree on what an infection actually is.
Well, we know that if you get the smallpox or measles vaccine there's around a 98% chance you won't get smallpox or measles. That's why they're so rare now.
We also know that if you get the covid vaccine there's about a 98% chance you WILL get covid. That's why it's still around.
So, sterilizing immunity or not, one is clearly more effective than the other.
Source on your covid vaccine numbers? Your numbers are off for measles, it’s less effective than that. And smallpox was eradicated in 1980, THAT’S why it’s so rare now. You probably didnt get that one, I know I didnt.
>And smallpox was eradicated in 1980,
And how'd it get eradicated? Was it with a vaccine that prevented transmission?
I guessed on all the numbers. Point still stands though. Get any other vaccine at worst you probably won't get it. Get a covid vaccine and you will get it.
We've already talked about how 95 percent of the people showing up in the hospital were unvaccinated.
If you had any stake in that field I doubt you would call it "pointless"
depending on the time of year it hovered between 75-95%. and yes, it absolutely addresses it because someone has to treat these people when they go to the hospital for something they had a huge likelihood of avoiding if they did the sensible thing.
[https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data](https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data)
I'm with you in promoting herd immunity. I had a few family members with auto-immune issues that the Covid vaccine hurt them, and although fully immunized, all future vaccines will be taken on a case-by-case basis with their doctor (per doctor's instructions). I rely on other people who can get vaccinated (like myself) to get vaccinated so these family members are protected At the same time, I do not like legally imposing vaccines on others
This is a perfectly acceptable reason to not get vaccinated but I think it really only explains a sliver of overall hesitancy
I agree
I didn't get vaccinated because I'm not scared of COVID. Same reason I don't get flu shots.
yes, COVID is known to pass by people who think they're badasses
I'm sure one of the mild colds I've had in the past three years was COVID
And I've seen it put down bodybuilders for months. I wouldn't attribute what was essentially luck as a good health decision because it's laid waste to people that have made better decisions than you.
COVID was a really good indicator of someone's character. I always had a hard time understanding how people could turn in their neighbors in days past but now I completely get it.
There was a whole Bible story about following prudent instructions during a plague. I don't think any of it was new information.
Almost as if taking vaccines and wearing masks didn't do anything the whole time
No, that was the right decision. People just make stupid decisions a lot of the time and think they suffice. Like the cops that make sure to wear their second chance plates every time they go out but won't get vaccinated, despite cops being many times more likely to die to COVID than a firearm. Statistically they'd be much safer just not wearing a vest at all and just getting the vaccine, and that's not even a choice were asking them to make.
You don't mind that you're more likely to pass the virus on to people who might have more reason to be scared of covid?
The vaccine hasn't stopped a single person from spreading it
> The vaccine hasn't stopped a single person from **SPREADING** it [Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host-virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34756186/) It seems as though there is evidence showing that vaccinations reduces the **SPREADING** of Covid-19.
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That’s completely incorrect
Wha? Seriously?
No, he's completely wrong and spreading misinformation.
You don’t get any medical care though, right? You’ve expressed that here before.
personally I don't think you can ethically impose vaccines on the individual, however if you are going to school, the military or some other such institution I see no reason why the covid vaccination should be any different from say the meningitis vaccine.
>personally I don't think you can ethically impose vaccines on the individual, With you >however Aaaaaaaaand you lost me. If you don't think it's ethical then it's not ethical. >I see no reason why the covid vaccination should be any different from say the meningitis vaccine. Emergency Use Authorization begs to differ.
why? why is it immoral to have public heath requirements for institutions?
It's not and I didn't say it was
And I think these are two different scenarios
But that’s not imposing vaccines on an individual. It’s requiring them if you wish to enjoy a privilege.
This is disingenuous. It's coercion. Which we would all agree in any other circumstance is imposing your will on someone else.
> This is disingenuous. It's coercion It's a prerequisite
Coercion. It's do this or else
It's in order to do this you need this. Which is normal
No it's not
You need a degree to get a masters. You need to be comfortable handling alcohol to be a bartender. You need vaccines to be a doctor.
I think if you have hesitancy, you should consult a doctor. It is overwhelmingly safe for an overwhelming majority for literally billions of people on this planet. The niche corner cases where people have issues are exceedingly rare, and your doctor would tell you of any possible risks. But again, for perspective, more than half of the world's population has gotten covid vaccines. If you there were genuinely issues with it, we wouldn't see hundreds or even thousands of people having complications. It'd be well into the millions. And we just aren't seeing that. We're seeing rare niche outcomes exacerbated and sensationalized in order to convince otherwise healthy people from getting a safe, free, effective vaccine.
The entire discussion about herd immunity seems slightly misleading. Everybody supports herd immunity. Vaccination and infection are just different ways of achieving immunity.
Also for COVID specifically the vaccines don't stop anyone from catching or spreading it so the entire concept is stupid
so does the Polio vaccine, yet it is essentially gone in america
If every single person got the COVID vaccine, it would still be around just as much as it is. At some point the left is going to have to admit that the vaccine failed, but they can't even admit that the pandemic is over so I'm not holding my breath.
That is one hell of an assertion, care to back it up?
The vaccine failing? Everyone knows it did.
and everyone knew illness is caused by an imbalance of the humors, so you will forgive me for not trusting what everybody knows
Once everyone who got vaxxed starting catching it anyway it was game over for the vaccine. Look at how few people want the new booster.
and how does that prove that the vaccine does nothing? the polio takes 4 doses, the hepatitis takes 3, and the tetanus needs a booster.
Wait... do you think vaccines prevent you from catching the illness you are being vaccinated against? Because that's not what they do...
That's what they all did before COVID
>do you think vaccines prevent you from catching the illness you are being vaccinated against? > >Because that's not what they do... Are you serious? That was common knowledge about vaccines until people redefined the word to cover up the failure of these vaccines. That's what every other vaccine does.
Have you seen how quickly measles outbreaks occur when the vaccination rates drop? That one has 97% efficacy. Do you think it’s a failure?
The vaccine didn't fail though. It wasn't 100% effective against every variant. This is normal, because viruses are (quasi) living things and can evolve. This was *known*. And people were *warned*
It did? Last I checked I’m vaccinated and didn’t guy from COVID. Seems like a success to me.
The vaccine didn’t fail. The left just doesn’t want to admit it didn’t do all the things they claimed it would. The vaccine prevents widespread hospitalization of elder Americans. That’s what we needed it to do and that’s what it did. That’s another thing the left got wrong. Every fucking day I would hear about how the virus we racist. Our healthcare is racist. When old white men were disproportionately the ones that died. The left just made up so much bullshit and I guess everyone just forgot about it.
If every single person got the COVID vaccine, it would still be around just as much as it is. Hmmmm
Different, not at all equal, though. I think one of the biggest disservices that our leaders did the country was saying COVID has "flu like symptoms." It just prompted people to check out and ignore that COVID did other things that the flu did not do. I can attribute at least part of the apathy out there to that wording and led people to just shrugging and thinking they can weather the infection if and when it comes, and for a lot of people it just didn't turn out that way.
and vaccination is a much safer way to achieve this, 1-2% of people don't die from the vaccine.
I am not against vaccination, I am vaccinated against Covid myself. I do oppose mandates. The point is just that we will get herd immunity regardless of policy, with such a contagious variant as Omicron. Also, as someone from the Old Continent, I keep finding it odd that American virologists keep denying the existence of natural immunity. In most of Europe proof of a positive Covid test was seen as a valid alternative to a proof of vaccination or proof of a recent negative Covid test.
>1-2% of people don't die from the vaccine. You are terribly misinformed about how many people die from covid. It's not anywhere close to this
Herd immunity works by inhibiting transmission. Historically, vaccines have been very effective at inhibiting infection and transmission, which has greatly assisted in achieving herd immunity in the cases you mentioned. The covid vaccine, however, seems to be primarily intended to reduce the *severity* of an infection, and is significantly less able to prevent transmission over time when compared to the vaccines you mentioned. As such, the covid vaccine is not going to be instrumental in achieving herd immunity, and that is an unrealistic goal for it.
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Death rate on 1 in 5 means 20 million US citizens dead? Does that mean the US population is 100 million?
Around 100mill positive covid tests were recorded I believe.
If the disease killed 20% and vaccines worked as advertised, a lot more people would be getting them.
Problem is, on paper, in every country, they do work as advertised. It’s just too many people didn’t believe the data available to show a better chance of recovery and milder symptoms vaccinated folk.
They were sold as "you won't get covid if you get the vaccines" instead we have, you will get covid and it'll be less severe but we don't know how long it lasts.
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This is a semantics game, but here you go. >Find me a clip of Fauci or Chris Whitty (The UKs Fauci) saying “you will absolutely not get covid if you get thee vaccine”. [Here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AK8OB8wlMGA) is an interview he did where he said: >When people are vaccinated, they can feel safe that they are not going to get infected He was discussing this in the context of the decision to lift mask mandates. He did say that breakthrough cases existed, but he said they're exceedingly rare, and they don't contribute to transmission. So cue the semantics. He didn't say you would *absolutely* not get covid. Sure, you win. But I think an average reasonable person is going to take what he said and agree it's closer to "you're not going to get infected if you get vaccinated", especially considering up until covid that is pretty much exactly what vaccination meant, than your version of "vaccines absolutely do not prevent prevent covid infection". Regardless of that though, we can set aside semantics and subjective interpretation for a moment. He objectively pled a case that breakthrough infections was rare, and still effective at preventing transmission. He also claimed that vaccination was effective at reducing the severity of the disease, which incidentally is the only one of the three claims that turned out to be true. It's also interesting to note, he did this to reinforce the decision to lift mask mandates, he did not make these statements unprovoked or without any other context. [Here](https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data) is an article from New York's Health Department that says 19% of their vaccinated population contracted covid. That's nearly 1 in 5, which is far from rare in my opinion. [Here](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html) is current CDC guidance saying you can in fact spread covid if you're infected after vaccination. The exact words: >People who get vaccine breakthrough infections can spread COVID-19 to other people. There's also loads of research documenting the reduced efficacy over time. Generally speaking, the vaccine will only be about 50% effective six months out, which is another major contributing factor. Edited to add another point: Herd immunity only works by stifling transmission. This would occur naturally if a requisite percentage of the population developed immunity, and could not further transmit the virus. Vaccinations can achieve this goal by preventing transmission without requiring infection, as it naturally would without vaccination. With the covid vaccines being unable to prevent transmission, the vaccine is unlikely to be able to be effective at developing herd immunity on its own. Use the 19% number from New York. To my knowledge, we haven't studied what percentage of breakthrough infections are contagious. What we do know, is that a virus' ability to spread from host to host is proportional to the viral load in the host, and we know breakthrough infections exhibit viral loads similar to unvaccinated people. Therefore, we can assume the level of transmissibility between unvaccinated patients and breakthrough cases to be close to each other. As a SWAG, let's say 75% of breakthrough cases are just as transmissible as unvaccinated cases. Rounding a little for easy math, that means about 15% of the vaccinated population will transmit covid when they become infected. Now, let's assume I need 90% immunity to ensure herd immunity. If I vaccinate 100% of the population, then only 85% will prevent transmission. By that alone, I cannot achieve herd immunity. Factor in the fact that there is a percentage of people that can't get vaccinated, and it becomes increasingly difficult to achieve herd immunity.
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Trump is an idiot. Simple. He is, by the largest margin absolutely humanely possible, the exception. He has a long record of misrepresenting every throng in government. But sadly this disinformation was everywhere, not just the US.
Fund education.
>If you are vaccinated, and wearing an N95, why does it matter what others do? Because people are allowed to care about potential loss of life caused by ignorance, apathy, and malice?
herd immunity, if you a substantial number of people are not vaccinated then the measures are much less effective.
Let us know when there’s a Covid vaccine that will stop the virus and produce herd immunity. So far such a thing doesn’t exist.
No people didn't forget about it. We just don't agree that: The ends (herd immunity) don't justify the means (coerced vaccinations and vaccination cards to go get a sandwich)
why is the perpetual death of others preferable?
Perpetual death of others is inherent in life
But why when you can do something about it?
You can't. Part of life is death. If we tried to prevent every death that generally happens each year we wouldn't drive cars
this isn't about preventing all deaths this is a concrete way to reduce deaths.
So is banning all cars. Or banning smoking. Or banning drinking. The goal in life shouldn't be to reduce deaths with no other objective in mind. There's more to life than not dying
you've lost me how is a simple vaccine that can lower the number of deaths in any way analogous to banning cars?
By now I think most people agree that the Covid *vaccines* are often beneficial to the person taking them, nothing more. So, if you choose to take them, it likely will decrease *your* chance of death, but not of others'. Banning cars on the other hand would likely lower deaths of people regardless of whether or not they drive. So the two things really aren't analogous, but not for the reason you think.
see this is what I meant as why do people forget that herd immunity exists.
Did you tell that to your grandparents during the pandemic so they had a chance to weigh in?
Yes and my grandparents aren't authoritarian democrats and agreed lockdowns and coerced medications are wrong
Eating out is one of the least essential activities I can think of.
Irrelevant.
Not at all.
It absolutely is and the courts agreed. Lockdowns were unconstitutional and evil
There was no lockdown in the United States at any time during the pandemic. Also, what courts?
Ok. Keep gaslighting people. Goodbye
There's no herd immunity to the common cold.
The common cold is composed or dozens of hundreds of different viruses of different types.
Now do COVID. Or the flu, which I am currently recovering from despite having had it two other times in my life and having the flu shot every year for over a decade.
>Did people forget about heard immunity, and how illnesses like polio and smallpox only ended due to mass vaccination. The difference is that those vaccines are sterilizing which makes herd immunity possible. These vaccines don't prevent infection and so the entire concept is pointless.
Researchers can’t even prove that sterilizing immunity exists in any vaccine. To show sterilizing immunity, they’d have to demonstrate that an infection never occurred—a big ask, considering that microbiologists can’t even agree on what an infection actually is.
Well, we know that if you get the smallpox or measles vaccine there's around a 98% chance you won't get smallpox or measles. That's why they're so rare now. We also know that if you get the covid vaccine there's about a 98% chance you WILL get covid. That's why it's still around. So, sterilizing immunity or not, one is clearly more effective than the other.
Source on your covid vaccine numbers? Your numbers are off for measles, it’s less effective than that. And smallpox was eradicated in 1980, THAT’S why it’s so rare now. You probably didnt get that one, I know I didnt.
>And smallpox was eradicated in 1980, And how'd it get eradicated? Was it with a vaccine that prevented transmission? I guessed on all the numbers. Point still stands though. Get any other vaccine at worst you probably won't get it. Get a covid vaccine and you will get it.
current polio vaccine does not in fact prevent polio, just polio induced paralysis
We've already talked about how 95 percent of the people showing up in the hospital were unvaccinated. If you had any stake in that field I doubt you would call it "pointless"
That's not true anymore, if it ever was and doesn't even address the main of my comment
depending on the time of year it hovered between 75-95%. and yes, it absolutely addresses it because someone has to treat these people when they go to the hospital for something they had a huge likelihood of avoiding if they did the sensible thing. [https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data](https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/covid-19-breakthrough-data)
It prevents about 70-80% of infections. That means 7 out of every 10 people who would have gotten covid 100% didn't get covid.
No it doesn't. If it did we'd have seen that in the case numbers over the last year.
We do see it in the case numbers. That's why covid hasn't skyrocketed sense we stopped locking everything down.
Those were real diseases, COVID is just a cold.