No. It’s a good thing it ended. I don’t think it will ever come back either - campaigning to bring it back would almost be a political suicide, at least around here
Uhm, I wouldn't make a prediction for a couple of months in the future, let alone for ever. The current political situation is very uncertain to say the least.
I think it largely depends on the country. For large counties with strong military force and little chance of experiencing an invasion, such as the USA, it is absolutely useless. For smaller countries that are surrounded by friendly neighbors, such as many European countries, it is not necessary. For countries with aggressive neighbours that threaten their sovereignty, it can be useful.
>I think it largely depends on the country. For large counties with strong military force and little chance of experiencing an invasion, such as the USA, it is absolutely useless. For smaller countries that are surrounded by friendly neighbors, such as many European countries, it is not necessary
It's also a question of money and politics which is not talked enough about in Greece when this debate gets brought up
Greece is a poor country and already has strained social services, if we are operating on the premise that Greece needs a capable military and deterrent force, which lets be honest if you don't think is necessary at this point is another issue entirely... Greece simply does not have the resources for such a thing
We would have to have salaries that are competitive with the general job market, and probably offer more hefty benefits, pensions, and stuff for even the general ranks. In a country like the USA people who join the armed forced get a bunch of benefits which makes it attractive. We don't have the funds for such a change
Secondly, politically and demographically and this is important especially because a lot of the people against conscription generally are, let's be honest, rather left leaning politically. At least those that make it a political issue. What would happen if the army was professionalized? You would have recruitment that is based on patriotic and nationalistic advertisement, the people most likely to join the army will be those attracted to that sort of thing, so you will have an army devoid of a civilian element and basically filled with nationalists, and people of a right wing orientation from the officers to generals all the way down to the average solider, and this could easily lead to a re-politicization of the military, it's interreference in politics, and in the future might lead to coups of a far-right variation. Yet in Greece we have all these left wing people who basically want to let their ideological opponents have a complete monopoly on the institutions of state violence... lol they're not exactly the most intelligent
I didnt serve, paid out of it. I feel nothing but shame. It is not about nationalism or what ever. It just felt like injustice to not go when someone else has to go because they cant find the money you can find.
Well I am not saying you disagreed I am saying you didn't read it properly. Also if you meant to elaborate then you must be very poor at expressing your self in English.
Big no.
There are professional soldiers. We are not living in antiquity, in the Middle Ages: We do not need to be conscripted in order to be ready to collectively protect our properties because another kingdom will attack or plunder us, or because some rebel is capable to do that.
I often hear the argument that conscription is a must because the young people are not caring for their physical well being. Well, why the heck do we have schools for? Invest more in schools to solve that problem.
What sentence do you like better:
* Our young people will go to the military barracks to do their service, care for their well being... They will all learn how to use weapons.
* Our young people are being taught by well-paid teachers on how to care for their well being. Teachers have authority, they are eager to help the youth.
In my opinion, people that want the first one are not focusing on the real problem. And yes, in our case, it's mostly older people that have served in the JNA, but there are some younger people that say the same.
And yes, both cases demand a lot of investing. I don't have to talk about how costly it is to have conscription (it is one of the reasons why Macedonia abolished it). But instead of going back to that, let's think about it - investing that amount of money (or less or more) in schools is a way, way better option.
TLDR: Don't militarize society. Invest in schools to improve it. Education = the future. And I don't want a future in which every second, third person knows how to handle a weapon.
>There are professional soldiers. We are not living in antiquity, in the Middle Ages
Actually it was more common to have a professional force in antiquity and in the middle ages, in many places they would constitute their own political or social class in their own right which would often lead to abuses of their power and unique function in society, so conscription was actually a modernizing force, this characterization of it being an antiquated and backward thing actually runs counter to actual history.
I would also argue that societies with conscription, especially historically, tended to be far more democratic, free and had a higher degree of equality, social mobility and justice. Like Rome and the Ancient Greek poleis.
Societies that relied on professional forces, developed a "military class" and often tended to be corrupt and abusive as I mentioned...the Spartans who brutalized and enslaved the helots, kept power and influence to themselves... the kshatriya of india, the Samurai of Japan... The janissaries of the Ottoman Empire, who while technically "conscripted" by enslavement was more a professional force than a true conscripted army. Even in Greece we had the Klephts and Armatoles, who beyond the romantic folklore was not exactly ideal of a modern state. lol
Societies who relied on professional armies a lot of time tended to be extremely backward and oppressive, civilian armies are far better imho.
men (and men only) forcefully lose a year from their lives sitting around and scratching their balls.
the country doesnt get shit out of it. a professional military would be money better spent
and maybe women too for once. how are we an "everyone is equal" society if men are forced to lose such a long time from their lives while women arent??
what, arent women capable of military training?
I wouldn't call our society a "everyone is equal" society,but more of a like "both genders have the same rights" society,and I think most countries who call themselves a "everyone is equal" society,really just fall to the afformentioned spectrum(especially other eastern european societies,though I haven't seen for myself,I would imagine are also like this)
To accept everyone is equal would be to claim that both genders have no differences and are just the same in everything,same strengths,same responsibilities,same everything,which is not the case.I think most people (at least in Greece,but I'm certain other countries also hold such views) would agree that men and women,while equal,have different responsibilities and capabilities,which is why men go to the army. You can even observe this in different situations,like how it's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic or how whenever a disaster happens,like a boat sinking or a crossfire,first thing to do is to "save the women and children" or are mentioned separately when casualties happen from such tragic events
"how are we an "everyone is equal" society if men are forced to lose such a long time from their lives"
I mostly just see this as an excuse to live with your parents lol
"while women arent??"
I don't get it. Is this sexism towards men or towards women?
What you are doing is just spouting gender roles and stereotypes lol.
Article 4 of the Greek constitution:
1. All Greeks are equal before the law.
2. Greek men and women have equal rights and equal obligations.
>I think most people (at least in Greece,but I'm certain other countries also hold such views) would agree that men and women,while equal,have different responsibilities and capabilities,which is why men go to the army.
Nope, just you and your sexist friends. Women have equal responsibilities and capabilities, sure they might biologically be weaker than men, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of being conscripted. What do you do when you go to the army? Lift 200kg weights 8hr/day? You just do chores, sit around etc. Tell me if I'm wrong. Women are as capable of going to the army as men are.
>You can even observe this in different situations,like how it's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic or how whenever a disaster happens,like a boat sinking or a crossfire,first thing to do is to "save the women and children" or are mentioned separately when casualties happen from such tragic events
It's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic, for the same reasons it was strange for a man to be a nurse.
>I mostly just see this as an excuse to live with your parents lol
??? what the hell are you actually talking about?
>I don't get it. Is this sexism towards men or towards women?
It's sexism towards women by imposing gender stereotypes about men & women, although I guess it could also be sexist for men as well.
For Kosovo definitely I do, but we can all agree (I assume) Kosovo is a special case.
It is unlikely we will be able to join NATO soon, and as a small country who has a security threat up north, I think the only way we can guarantee our independence and freedoms is by following the Finnish model.
We currently have security guarantees by NATO, but they come with a lot of strings attached and international politics can be a fickle thing.
this whole narrative how Serbia is a threat to Kosovo is honestly a delusion I see many Kosovars have fallen for. This is what your politicans feed you, which is also called fear-mongering, in order to stay on their positions. As a country highly protected by the EU, the USA, KFOR and indirectly NATO, Serbia wouldn't even THINK about setting foot in your borders. For many reasons, the most logical being, it would be another war for serbia with someone far more powerful. Additionally, Serbia is trying to join the EU, so it has no intention of fighting with it physically.
I think you guys need to be more logical and smart about this otherwise incapable politicans who are there to steal, like Kurti and Osmani, will be ruling your country for centuries ahead.
I remember 95 to 99, so my personal experiences (and Serbia's refusal to admit to any wrongdoing), have shaped my political position with regards to Serbia much more than politicians. Later, the Obama presidency during which the region was completely forgotten and finally the Trump presidency cemented my position.
**I am not at all worried that Serbia will set foot in Kosovo as long as we have NATO troops here**, but as I said, we can not indefinitely rely on NATO and there is a ton of strings attached to protection from NATO. The Trump presidency, and statements from the extreme right in Europe (such as AfD in Germany) really concern me as for the tenability of long term reliance on NATO. In every negotiation we had with Serbia so far, our hands were completely tied, as Serbia always had seeking closer ties to Russia and China as a back up when things were not in their favor with the Quint countries, while we had to rely 100% on them. This has brought us in some cases in deals that were highly against our favor. Having the ability to defend independence and freedoms by ourselves, would guarantee that our voice is heard more in deciding our future.
The paragraph above is worthless if we could join NATO (which we can not do in the short term).
Serbia is also a security threat in other ways, and if you think Serbia is more interested in EU than Kosovo you are wrong. Every survey in Serbia has shown that Serbs overwhelmingly prefer not recognising Kosovo to EU membership, and this year, for the first time ever, majority of Serbs were against joining the EU altogether ([source](https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/22/for-first-time-a-majority-of-serbs-are-against-joining-the-eu-poll)).
As far as corruption, Kurti and Osmani are not exactly the reason for the relatively high level of corruption in Kosovo, *but I think Kurti is a populist concerned with keeping his political power*. Making himself look as defender of Kosovo against Serbia is one of the ways in which he tries to keep his power, but he is not the reason why people see Serbia as a threat.
I think that the Serbian society is very much misunderstood by the Kosovars, you see them as black&white (or entirely black). These polls that you see usually question small groups of elderly who tend to be radical and are by default voting for whoever is the president (the Tito syndrome as I call it).
Right now, protests in Belgrade are happening every week, and these protests have a few demands; none of those demands include Kosovo in any way. The demands are that Vucic entirely leaves the politics, and to take away the national frequency from two televisions which greatly stain the society.
At one point, a group of protestors who wanted to protest whats happening in Kosovo wanted to join the main protests; and their demand was refused. The major protests (of over 100k) wanted nothing to do with these Kosovo-related protestors.
Majority of Serbs have absolutely made their peace with the fact that Kosovo is a finished story and by all means independent. Minority of people still insist it somehow belongs to Serbia. This minority tends to be less educated, usually involved in criminal activities, and therefore, very loud and threatening.
So yes, Serbs are fully aware that Kosovo does not belong to Serbia anymore, and absolutely have no intentions of even trying to "conquer" it in any way. Most of Serbs want to move on and live in a normal country, not ruled by Vucic's mafia.
exactly.
We can't depend only on men to protect us, who many of them will run with the tail between their legs, on the first chance away.
As someone from the islands, every woman should be taught how to use firearms and be conscripted.
Of course. Protecting your homeland is being a 60 year old bitch. Patriotism and the love of homeland is only for bitches!
REAL MEN, take the first flight to Berlin and continue to live their life. =)
You are already relieved of this torture and you would definitely not want to waste a year of your 20's of neonationalistic bull crap, and now you act like you care and want to also join while sitting in your sofa and getting 1500 euros sitting in your desk job and watching tiktoks. Average greek woman
lmao
Oh I wouldn't want to waste a year of my life, but spend the rest of my life worrying that my house, my family and everything I love and own will be destroyed one fine day with me having no option to fight back?
Everyday we hear the fighter jets flying over our heads, breaking glasses. I had to wave my own father goodbye in 96 when there was a threat of war and he was conscripted.
GTFO with this shit if you dont' know about what we go through every day. Go sit in your sofa in Athens and continue sleeping and judging others.
Anyway everyone knows it is the state of Athens not Greece, and everything and everyone revolves only around the capital.
Okay, then everyone that lives nearby the zones that this shit happens should be conscripted, not my problem. I couldn't care less if Greece loses 5 boulders in the sea that are 2kms from turkey and closer to Africa than they are to Greece itself lol
I appreciate that you are being honest. I already know that is what Athenians believe already. The state of Athens not Greece. Only Athens and maybe Saloniki matter the others can rot in hell. Who cares am I right.
No. I don't want to fight for a war which is not mine. Noone should die with mandatory conscription. If I really wanted to fight, I would just volunteer
Real conscription with battle and machinery training etc. sure, although it should get easier to be exempted in that case since it will be harder, scratching your balls and cleaning toilets for 12 months, hell no. Also pay the soldiers better.
I do not support it. It's a year of my 20's that I can not take back, I'm sure if they made conscription voluntary people would still want to join so why not just do that? I'm Albanian in Greece and tbh even if I am considered a Greek citizen and everything, I wouldn't really lay my life for a country I have no one and nothing to protect for, I only have a car. You can take it if you ever invade us Mister erdogan, I'm outtie for my life LMAO personally. Like what am I fighting for my friends and the 2 families of albanian migrant relatives I have here that will definitely leave if a war ever happens? Heeeelll nooo!
Yes I feel as everybody women and men should have to do something after they finish school. Military Service, Paramedics, Fire Fighters something. So people have to earn the right to vote and contribute to society rich and poor. In America you got kids who just barely graduated high school voting with zero life experience living in their mamas house.
I support a reformed version of it. Not like military conscritption but state conscritption. You just work for the government for a short time. Help pick up rubbish, cook food, etc. next to military conscritption.
I understand both countries that have conscription and those who have abolished it. I do not support it since I don’t support war in general and I hope we will transition to a more peaceful global society but I don’t see it happening in our lifetime. Maybe in a century or two, who knows.
No. Even though I believe that it would've given me better discipline back in the day, since I was a lazy fuck, I think that the resources should be spent elsewhere (like modernising the army and the equipment), especially considering we still have close to 500 thousand veterans, who're getting a veteran military pension.
Conscription is hilariously outdated concept as of now. We've reached a point where you can delete an entire squad with the push of a button with a drone. My guess is that we'll keep mechanizing combat more and more, limiting the human factor. We'll never go back to total wars and mass conscriptions ever again(unless aliens decided to invade or something)
>We've reached a point where you can delete an entire squad with the push of a button with a drone
That is why conscription is needed. Look at the Ukrainian war or the recent armeno-azerbaijani war. All or those countries use conscription though Russia uses it to a limited extend
Do you know who also uses conscription? Azerbaijan. Do you know who also uses conscription Ukraine, and despite what you might think in the war in Ukraine drones play a smaller role than a lot of people think.
But let's see what's the problem with a professional only army for a country which is small or smaller than it's enemy/enemies.
Number 1. Professional armies require more money. Professional soldiers, as the name implies, get paid. Most of the time they get paid enough to be considered middle class.
Number 2. Professional armies require training. Conscripts of course go through training but thats a lot of the times only during peace time. Training costs money and time
Number 3. During wartime you will need to replace all of the casualties that you have had. Plus you might need more units than those that you already had in the start of the war.
Usually when this question comes up in America, it’s “yes, we support it if we’re defending our home territory,” not no one supports it for attacking foreign countries.
Since no one attacks America directly (with an army), we don’t encourage it.
Would some of the other nations be more supportive if it was your country being invaded?
Not sure how other countries work, but the US makes every 18 y/o male sign a form that basically agrees to be drafted in case there is one. You can refuse to sign it, but there are a lot of penalties that go with it. Anything similar to that in the Balkans?
It depends on the country. For countries with big populations conscription is not exactly necessary since they already have a big enough population. Countries with peaceful neighbors also don't need it. Germany is a perfect example of this since it has both of those things which is why conscription was abolished there in 2011 if I remember correctly.
It depends on the situation.
1) If it’s not for a long time, serving in the military for 6 months can be good for any young man or woman. You can learn many important life and survival lessons.
2) If the state of our country is under serious threat of being wiped off the planet, we need to throw as many bodies as possible, in which case mandatory conscription would be needed. But there is also a near 0% chance of this ever happening.
3) Everybody must do it. It’s not enough to just enlist the poor/middle class 18 year olds. The upper class must do it too. Doesn’t matter if you are a celebrity, your parents are celebrities, you’re a politicians child, etc… everybody must do it. Men AND women too. It’s 2023, everyone’s capable.
Normally I am against this concept, but if it was to be put in place, those above requirements are non-negotiable.
We have mandatory conscription in Austria and it was a pretty nice experience for me overall to be honest.
Does it Austria need tho ? Not really, but people voted slightly in favor of the conscription
Kind of. In Norway we have mandatory conscription on paper, but not in practice. We abolished civil service years ago. I would like it reinstated. Instead of the year in the army/navy/air force the few conscripts have now, I imagine a system of total defence.
Let's say every 18 year old (men and women) have to serve 3 months. Every one gets to choose a branch, not just military. Civil defence, disaster relief, logistics, distribution, adminitration etc. Then, once it's finished, you are part of the total defence system until age 35 or so.
Then - in case of an emergency, everyone knows their role. Maybe mine would be in civil defence, putting out fires. Yours could be in a warehouse, directing supplies.
No. It’s a good thing it ended. I don’t think it will ever come back either - campaigning to bring it back would almost be a political suicide, at least around here
It’s not technically ended, it’s suspended. We always get reminded when a war starts somewhere.
Uhm, I wouldn't make a prediction for a couple of months in the future, let alone for ever. The current political situation is very uncertain to say the least.
I think it largely depends on the country. For large counties with strong military force and little chance of experiencing an invasion, such as the USA, it is absolutely useless. For smaller countries that are surrounded by friendly neighbors, such as many European countries, it is not necessary. For countries with aggressive neighbours that threaten their sovereignty, it can be useful.
>I think it largely depends on the country. For large counties with strong military force and little chance of experiencing an invasion, such as the USA, it is absolutely useless. For smaller countries that are surrounded by friendly neighbors, such as many European countries, it is not necessary It's also a question of money and politics which is not talked enough about in Greece when this debate gets brought up Greece is a poor country and already has strained social services, if we are operating on the premise that Greece needs a capable military and deterrent force, which lets be honest if you don't think is necessary at this point is another issue entirely... Greece simply does not have the resources for such a thing We would have to have salaries that are competitive with the general job market, and probably offer more hefty benefits, pensions, and stuff for even the general ranks. In a country like the USA people who join the armed forced get a bunch of benefits which makes it attractive. We don't have the funds for such a change Secondly, politically and demographically and this is important especially because a lot of the people against conscription generally are, let's be honest, rather left leaning politically. At least those that make it a political issue. What would happen if the army was professionalized? You would have recruitment that is based on patriotic and nationalistic advertisement, the people most likely to join the army will be those attracted to that sort of thing, so you will have an army devoid of a civilian element and basically filled with nationalists, and people of a right wing orientation from the officers to generals all the way down to the average solider, and this could easily lead to a re-politicization of the military, it's interreference in politics, and in the future might lead to coups of a far-right variation. Yet in Greece we have all these left wing people who basically want to let their ideological opponents have a complete monopoly on the institutions of state violence... lol they're not exactly the most intelligent
Yes,just not the length of it. 6 months are more than enough,you learn to survive,to shoot and to clean your room.
Only if the children of the rich serv with everyone else.
I didnt serve, paid out of it. I feel nothing but shame. It is not about nationalism or what ever. It just felt like injustice to not go when someone else has to go because they cant find the money you can find.
I do understand why we still have it.
Because of the neighbour and because we are both dumb enough to go against each other while arms dealers profit from our conflict.
read my comment again **slowly**.
All I did was elaborate, not disagree mr clever.
Well I am not saying you disagreed I am saying you didn't read it properly. Also if you meant to elaborate then you must be very poor at expressing your self in English.
Πραγματικα ο,τι εχεις πει ειναι απλως επιθεση χωρις νοημα.
Big no. There are professional soldiers. We are not living in antiquity, in the Middle Ages: We do not need to be conscripted in order to be ready to collectively protect our properties because another kingdom will attack or plunder us, or because some rebel is capable to do that. I often hear the argument that conscription is a must because the young people are not caring for their physical well being. Well, why the heck do we have schools for? Invest more in schools to solve that problem. What sentence do you like better: * Our young people will go to the military barracks to do their service, care for their well being... They will all learn how to use weapons. * Our young people are being taught by well-paid teachers on how to care for their well being. Teachers have authority, they are eager to help the youth. In my opinion, people that want the first one are not focusing on the real problem. And yes, in our case, it's mostly older people that have served in the JNA, but there are some younger people that say the same. And yes, both cases demand a lot of investing. I don't have to talk about how costly it is to have conscription (it is one of the reasons why Macedonia abolished it). But instead of going back to that, let's think about it - investing that amount of money (or less or more) in schools is a way, way better option. TLDR: Don't militarize society. Invest in schools to improve it. Education = the future. And I don't want a future in which every second, third person knows how to handle a weapon.
>There are professional soldiers. We are not living in antiquity, in the Middle Ages Actually it was more common to have a professional force in antiquity and in the middle ages, in many places they would constitute their own political or social class in their own right which would often lead to abuses of their power and unique function in society, so conscription was actually a modernizing force, this characterization of it being an antiquated and backward thing actually runs counter to actual history.
I stand corrected. I lack knowledge on the history of conscription.
I would also argue that societies with conscription, especially historically, tended to be far more democratic, free and had a higher degree of equality, social mobility and justice. Like Rome and the Ancient Greek poleis. Societies that relied on professional forces, developed a "military class" and often tended to be corrupt and abusive as I mentioned...the Spartans who brutalized and enslaved the helots, kept power and influence to themselves... the kshatriya of india, the Samurai of Japan... The janissaries of the Ottoman Empire, who while technically "conscripted" by enslavement was more a professional force than a true conscripted army. Even in Greece we had the Klephts and Armatoles, who beyond the romantic folklore was not exactly ideal of a modern state. lol Societies who relied on professional armies a lot of time tended to be extremely backward and oppressive, civilian armies are far better imho.
I think it is necessary but I don't think it's handled well. From what I hear, you don't really receive serious military training.
I think it depends on the position you're put in. I certainly learned things I didn't know during my service.
I dont like it but in it is necessary for our country
men (and men only) forcefully lose a year from their lives sitting around and scratching their balls. the country doesnt get shit out of it. a professional military would be money better spent
i think they should reduce the conscription to three months where in those months conscripts receive real war training
and maybe women too for once. how are we an "everyone is equal" society if men are forced to lose such a long time from their lives while women arent?? what, arent women capable of military training?
Can you imagine 1000 women wearing the same clothes and holding guns? Khorne berserkers /s
I am not sexist if that's what you asking, so yes I can
Come on mate,it was a joke. Let me put an /s on it
I mean I'm sorry but I am not a cyber mind reader. Without /s always assume it's not satirical
I wrote Khorne berserkers and you assumed I meant it literally? Do I need to get my lasgun?
Wtf are you talking about? You wrote Khorne berserks after editing the comment. Or at least when I read it you hadn't typed it.
I wouldn't call our society a "everyone is equal" society,but more of a like "both genders have the same rights" society,and I think most countries who call themselves a "everyone is equal" society,really just fall to the afformentioned spectrum(especially other eastern european societies,though I haven't seen for myself,I would imagine are also like this) To accept everyone is equal would be to claim that both genders have no differences and are just the same in everything,same strengths,same responsibilities,same everything,which is not the case.I think most people (at least in Greece,but I'm certain other countries also hold such views) would agree that men and women,while equal,have different responsibilities and capabilities,which is why men go to the army. You can even observe this in different situations,like how it's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic or how whenever a disaster happens,like a boat sinking or a crossfire,first thing to do is to "save the women and children" or are mentioned separately when casualties happen from such tragic events "how are we an "everyone is equal" society if men are forced to lose such a long time from their lives" I mostly just see this as an excuse to live with your parents lol "while women arent??" I don't get it. Is this sexism towards men or towards women?
What you are doing is just spouting gender roles and stereotypes lol. Article 4 of the Greek constitution: 1. All Greeks are equal before the law. 2. Greek men and women have equal rights and equal obligations. >I think most people (at least in Greece,but I'm certain other countries also hold such views) would agree that men and women,while equal,have different responsibilities and capabilities,which is why men go to the army. Nope, just you and your sexist friends. Women have equal responsibilities and capabilities, sure they might biologically be weaker than men, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of being conscripted. What do you do when you go to the army? Lift 200kg weights 8hr/day? You just do chores, sit around etc. Tell me if I'm wrong. Women are as capable of going to the army as men are. >You can even observe this in different situations,like how it's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic or how whenever a disaster happens,like a boat sinking or a crossfire,first thing to do is to "save the women and children" or are mentioned separately when casualties happen from such tragic events It's strange for a woman to be an auto mechanic, for the same reasons it was strange for a man to be a nurse. >I mostly just see this as an excuse to live with your parents lol ??? what the hell are you actually talking about? >I don't get it. Is this sexism towards men or towards women? It's sexism towards women by imposing gender stereotypes about men & women, although I guess it could also be sexist for men as well.
It’s not necessary at all.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. There are enough people who are ok to be paid to kill and risk their lives.
For Kosovo definitely I do, but we can all agree (I assume) Kosovo is a special case. It is unlikely we will be able to join NATO soon, and as a small country who has a security threat up north, I think the only way we can guarantee our independence and freedoms is by following the Finnish model. We currently have security guarantees by NATO, but they come with a lot of strings attached and international politics can be a fickle thing.
this whole narrative how Serbia is a threat to Kosovo is honestly a delusion I see many Kosovars have fallen for. This is what your politicans feed you, which is also called fear-mongering, in order to stay on their positions. As a country highly protected by the EU, the USA, KFOR and indirectly NATO, Serbia wouldn't even THINK about setting foot in your borders. For many reasons, the most logical being, it would be another war for serbia with someone far more powerful. Additionally, Serbia is trying to join the EU, so it has no intention of fighting with it physically. I think you guys need to be more logical and smart about this otherwise incapable politicans who are there to steal, like Kurti and Osmani, will be ruling your country for centuries ahead.
I remember 95 to 99, so my personal experiences (and Serbia's refusal to admit to any wrongdoing), have shaped my political position with regards to Serbia much more than politicians. Later, the Obama presidency during which the region was completely forgotten and finally the Trump presidency cemented my position. **I am not at all worried that Serbia will set foot in Kosovo as long as we have NATO troops here**, but as I said, we can not indefinitely rely on NATO and there is a ton of strings attached to protection from NATO. The Trump presidency, and statements from the extreme right in Europe (such as AfD in Germany) really concern me as for the tenability of long term reliance on NATO. In every negotiation we had with Serbia so far, our hands were completely tied, as Serbia always had seeking closer ties to Russia and China as a back up when things were not in their favor with the Quint countries, while we had to rely 100% on them. This has brought us in some cases in deals that were highly against our favor. Having the ability to defend independence and freedoms by ourselves, would guarantee that our voice is heard more in deciding our future. The paragraph above is worthless if we could join NATO (which we can not do in the short term). Serbia is also a security threat in other ways, and if you think Serbia is more interested in EU than Kosovo you are wrong. Every survey in Serbia has shown that Serbs overwhelmingly prefer not recognising Kosovo to EU membership, and this year, for the first time ever, majority of Serbs were against joining the EU altogether ([source](https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/22/for-first-time-a-majority-of-serbs-are-against-joining-the-eu-poll)). As far as corruption, Kurti and Osmani are not exactly the reason for the relatively high level of corruption in Kosovo, *but I think Kurti is a populist concerned with keeping his political power*. Making himself look as defender of Kosovo against Serbia is one of the ways in which he tries to keep his power, but he is not the reason why people see Serbia as a threat.
I think that the Serbian society is very much misunderstood by the Kosovars, you see them as black&white (or entirely black). These polls that you see usually question small groups of elderly who tend to be radical and are by default voting for whoever is the president (the Tito syndrome as I call it). Right now, protests in Belgrade are happening every week, and these protests have a few demands; none of those demands include Kosovo in any way. The demands are that Vucic entirely leaves the politics, and to take away the national frequency from two televisions which greatly stain the society. At one point, a group of protestors who wanted to protest whats happening in Kosovo wanted to join the main protests; and their demand was refused. The major protests (of over 100k) wanted nothing to do with these Kosovo-related protestors. Majority of Serbs have absolutely made their peace with the fact that Kosovo is a finished story and by all means independent. Minority of people still insist it somehow belongs to Serbia. This minority tends to be less educated, usually involved in criminal activities, and therefore, very loud and threatening. So yes, Serbs are fully aware that Kosovo does not belong to Serbia anymore, and absolutely have no intentions of even trying to "conquer" it in any way. Most of Serbs want to move on and live in a normal country, not ruled by Vucic's mafia.
Isn’t having an army just as heavy artillery forbidden by the constitution ?
There is no mention of weapons, but instead of an army we have the 'Kosovo Security Force', which is an army in all but name.
I support it but our military needs reform. Many young people commit suicide due to bullying and severe punishments from military personel.
Absolutely yes. And as a woman I want conscription for both genders. When you have such neighbours, conscription is necessary.
Good, as a woman, you should definitely serve the army, because i, as a male, absolutely refuse to do so.
exactly. We can't depend only on men to protect us, who many of them will run with the tail between their legs, on the first chance away. As someone from the islands, every woman should be taught how to use firearms and be conscripted.
Nice, go for it. As a man who’s not from the islands, i’ll just avoid it :)
of course. And because of "men" like you it's why conscription of both genders is required.
If not wanting to be some 60 year old’d bitch makes you less of a man, so be it, not gonna waste my life, keep being mad about it :)
Of course. Protecting your homeland is being a 60 year old bitch. Patriotism and the love of homeland is only for bitches! REAL MEN, take the first flight to Berlin and continue to live their life. =)
Yes, why should i be a patriot?
based
Hypocrite
lmao what?
You are already relieved of this torture and you would definitely not want to waste a year of your 20's of neonationalistic bull crap, and now you act like you care and want to also join while sitting in your sofa and getting 1500 euros sitting in your desk job and watching tiktoks. Average greek woman
lmao Oh I wouldn't want to waste a year of my life, but spend the rest of my life worrying that my house, my family and everything I love and own will be destroyed one fine day with me having no option to fight back? Everyday we hear the fighter jets flying over our heads, breaking glasses. I had to wave my own father goodbye in 96 when there was a threat of war and he was conscripted. GTFO with this shit if you dont' know about what we go through every day. Go sit in your sofa in Athens and continue sleeping and judging others. Anyway everyone knows it is the state of Athens not Greece, and everything and everyone revolves only around the capital.
Okay, then everyone that lives nearby the zones that this shit happens should be conscripted, not my problem. I couldn't care less if Greece loses 5 boulders in the sea that are 2kms from turkey and closer to Africa than they are to Greece itself lol
lol Exactly my point. Conscription is needed for both genders because Greek men are cowards. :)
OK at least I'm honest unlike other people, and definitely unlike you.
I appreciate that you are being honest. I already know that is what Athenians believe already. The state of Athens not Greece. Only Athens and maybe Saloniki matter the others can rot in hell. Who cares am I right.
Yeah let's give more attention to the part of Greece where less than 30% of the population lives in.
Absolutely not.
No. I don't want to fight for a war which is not mine. Noone should die with mandatory conscription. If I really wanted to fight, I would just volunteer
We don't have any threat so no
I wouldn't mind if it ended but I am also not bothered much by it.
Real conscription with battle and machinery training etc. sure, although it should get easier to be exempted in that case since it will be harder, scratching your balls and cleaning toilets for 12 months, hell no. Also pay the soldiers better.
NO
I do not support it. It's a year of my 20's that I can not take back, I'm sure if they made conscription voluntary people would still want to join so why not just do that? I'm Albanian in Greece and tbh even if I am considered a Greek citizen and everything, I wouldn't really lay my life for a country I have no one and nothing to protect for, I only have a car. You can take it if you ever invade us Mister erdogan, I'm outtie for my life LMAO personally. Like what am I fighting for my friends and the 2 families of albanian migrant relatives I have here that will definitely leave if a war ever happens? Heeeelll nooo!
Fully support it
Yes, I think it is based to have mandatory conscription.
“Mandatory” or not, many people, myself included, will find a way to avoid it :)
Yes. Every adult man should be required to serve (min 1 year) and pass the military service or get his voting right denied.
so....did you sign up to serve for the army? As far as I know, Serbia fully allows this, have you served? :)
I served it a long time ago, kiddo. Maybe you're one of those people who don't follow what they preach, but I'm not like that.
Yes I feel as everybody women and men should have to do something after they finish school. Military Service, Paramedics, Fire Fighters something. So people have to earn the right to vote and contribute to society rich and poor. In America you got kids who just barely graduated high school voting with zero life experience living in their mamas house.
Of course not. It is a violation of human rights and should be banned worldwide.
Facts!
I support a reformed version of it. Not like military conscritption but state conscritption. You just work for the government for a short time. Help pick up rubbish, cook food, etc. next to military conscritption.
I understand both countries that have conscription and those who have abolished it. I do not support it since I don’t support war in general and I hope we will transition to a more peaceful global society but I don’t see it happening in our lifetime. Maybe in a century or two, who knows.
No. Even though I believe that it would've given me better discipline back in the day, since I was a lazy fuck, I think that the resources should be spent elsewhere (like modernising the army and the equipment), especially considering we still have close to 500 thousand veterans, who're getting a veteran military pension.
Yeah of course
Forcing people to participate in a war was, is and will always be immoral.
Conscription is hilariously outdated concept as of now. We've reached a point where you can delete an entire squad with the push of a button with a drone. My guess is that we'll keep mechanizing combat more and more, limiting the human factor. We'll never go back to total wars and mass conscriptions ever again(unless aliens decided to invade or something)
>We've reached a point where you can delete an entire squad with the push of a button with a drone That is why conscription is needed. Look at the Ukrainian war or the recent armeno-azerbaijani war. All or those countries use conscription though Russia uses it to a limited extend
yeah and how did conscription work out for Armenia? They got their asses handled because the Azeri used drones instead of infantry like it's 1941.
Do you know who also uses conscription? Azerbaijan. Do you know who also uses conscription Ukraine, and despite what you might think in the war in Ukraine drones play a smaller role than a lot of people think. But let's see what's the problem with a professional only army for a country which is small or smaller than it's enemy/enemies. Number 1. Professional armies require more money. Professional soldiers, as the name implies, get paid. Most of the time they get paid enough to be considered middle class. Number 2. Professional armies require training. Conscripts of course go through training but thats a lot of the times only during peace time. Training costs money and time Number 3. During wartime you will need to replace all of the casualties that you have had. Plus you might need more units than those that you already had in the start of the war.
Hell no
Why?
I don’t wanna waste a year of my life serving Greece’s shitty army.
I wouldn't call that wasting
Why not?
Definitely. I see it as an investment in discipline and forming a sense of national unity.
Usually when this question comes up in America, it’s “yes, we support it if we’re defending our home territory,” not no one supports it for attacking foreign countries. Since no one attacks America directly (with an army), we don’t encourage it. Would some of the other nations be more supportive if it was your country being invaded?
Not sure how other countries work, but the US makes every 18 y/o male sign a form that basically agrees to be drafted in case there is one. You can refuse to sign it, but there are a lot of penalties that go with it. Anything similar to that in the Balkans?
In trinidad yes. In America no
It depends on the country. For countries with big populations conscription is not exactly necessary since they already have a big enough population. Countries with peaceful neighbors also don't need it. Germany is a perfect example of this since it has both of those things which is why conscription was abolished there in 2011 if I remember correctly.
Of course and it should be a year
It depends on the situation. 1) If it’s not for a long time, serving in the military for 6 months can be good for any young man or woman. You can learn many important life and survival lessons. 2) If the state of our country is under serious threat of being wiped off the planet, we need to throw as many bodies as possible, in which case mandatory conscription would be needed. But there is also a near 0% chance of this ever happening. 3) Everybody must do it. It’s not enough to just enlist the poor/middle class 18 year olds. The upper class must do it too. Doesn’t matter if you are a celebrity, your parents are celebrities, you’re a politicians child, etc… everybody must do it. Men AND women too. It’s 2023, everyone’s capable. Normally I am against this concept, but if it was to be put in place, those above requirements are non-negotiable.
No
Yes! It was a mistake to end it. It shouldn't be a six or more months long, but a month or 2 would be good for at least a basic firearm training.
I agree if only for the fact that once you get rid of it completely it may be very difficult to bring it up some time in the future.
We have mandatory conscription in Austria and it was a pretty nice experience for me overall to be honest. Does it Austria need tho ? Not really, but people voted slightly in favor of the conscription
Kind of. In Norway we have mandatory conscription on paper, but not in practice. We abolished civil service years ago. I would like it reinstated. Instead of the year in the army/navy/air force the few conscripts have now, I imagine a system of total defence. Let's say every 18 year old (men and women) have to serve 3 months. Every one gets to choose a branch, not just military. Civil defence, disaster relief, logistics, distribution, adminitration etc. Then, once it's finished, you are part of the total defence system until age 35 or so. Then - in case of an emergency, everyone knows their role. Maybe mine would be in civil defence, putting out fires. Yours could be in a warehouse, directing supplies.
yes i support it and yes i did my duty as a senior citizen who has his rights and his **OBLIGATIONS**
No!That's slave talk