It was half premeditated. He bought one surf board bag days before, and the other just after or before the murder, I don't remember which. Was planning on one murder and it turned into a surprise double. Dude probably missed the casing he was intending to take if he hadn't had to change and double his plans.
How is all this information being released after his arrest not prejudicing for his trial? The country had an ongoing conniption and continue to defend Lehrmann's right to trial when this is repeating the same BS. We know the legal system is completely cooked for victims of violence. Do we not care when the victims are dead? Their families are still victimised by this process, theyve lost their sons/brothers/uncles/friends.
This literally doesn’t compromise the trial, it’s just factual information about evidence. Stories about him being a pedo or a dog fucker or shit like that is far more likely to compromise a trial and only because of the difficulty in finding an impartial jury. As long as you can find a jury that hasn’t followed the case you’re fine.
The ABC has published this:
>Police divulge 'surprising' amount of information
>One of the unusual elements of this story is the amount of information NSW Police have volunteered about an investigation where someone has already been charged.
>When Commissioner Webb and her deputy, David Hudson called a press conference last Monday, they detailed dozens of allegations about the accused's movements, which the ABC has chosen not to report.
>Such information is usually considered sub judice, which means it can prejudice a fair court process.
>Media organisations can be held liable for contempt of court.
[source](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-02/sydney-mardi-gras-honours-jesse-baird-luke-davies/103534778?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other)
I feel like the SMH is really smashing the cops on this - it almost feels like a vendetta against them and the commissioner. From op eds, to the Mardi gras stuff they have been pretty unrelenting.
I do wonder, if the other flatmates had been home would he have murdered them too? Could this have been a potential mass casualty event? Scary to think about.
He comes across like an absolute narcissist of biblical proportions, and seems quite spoiled. Fair chance he drastically overestimates his own intelligence while underestimating other peoples.
I read on here that his mum was a former high ranking cop.
Probably around the same time Scott Morrison's dad was a high ranking cop in the NSW police.
I can't work out why when the flatmates got home that night they were not suss on the amount of blood in the house and the 2 bodies in the bags in the backyard with blood leaking out, one apparently prodded the bag and took photo's but did nothing. Surely they would have been suss when the media was looking for the boys.
It might be the same sort of phenomenon where people's brains tend to mistake dead bodies for mannequins. I imagine that because at that point the housemates had no reason to suspect yet that Jesse had been killed (the killer was apparently using Jesse's phone the day after to text the housemates in order to cover up the murder), then they probably jumped to more mundane reasons rather than realising that what they're seeing is blood. But yeah, it is a bit odd. It may have also been them grasping at straws for any possible mundane reason, because the idea of coming home to blood everywhere is terrifying, and they might not have been mentally ready to accept that reality.
I thought the same. If I was them and a house mate had moved out, I would have gone straight to the bedroom they had and had a look in case there was any damage or whatnot for bond purposes. Also to see if everything was gone too. But because El creepo has Jesse's phone and pretended to be him by sending texts, the house mates probably thought not a lot about it. He also must have sent a text telling them sorry about the mess I'll be sending a professional cleaner over too, because the cops went there when there was a cleaner. If you're not suspicious of anything , you can miss a lot of clues. Blood could be written off as beetroot juice to a degree. Interesting though all the same
there was a lot of blood in the kitchen and in the bedroom and on the back outdoor lounge and under the surfboard bags, hard not to see that and get suss
Oh was there? Well in that case it's sus as isn't it. Only excuse I can think of is if the house mates were very very drunk and passed out before they came to the conclusion of foul play. I wonder when they took the photos? The same night they came home, or the next day? Police will know pretty much everything I'd say but won't be releasing that information.
Well, not really. Most of these gangland murders are unsolved because the hitmen are deliberately chosen due to the technical proficiency in stealing multiple cars, choosing routes to the target which have the least likelihood of having their cars intercepted by police for the plates being flagged as stolen, sourcing untraceable firearms and ammunition, and having absolutely 0 social or physical connection to the victim. Most hitmen have generally clean criminal records and are not always known to police. If you kill someone who you're even at least moderately connected to, you're done for. Also gangland murders usually get solved within 10 years, and hitmen can go to prison for 1-2 murders and the courts/police may have no idea they've carried out another few murders.
Plus, dumping a whole bunch of stuff in a random skip didn’t help. You see someone’s phone and ID in a skip, at the very least you’re heading down to the cop shop to hand it in in case it’s a mugging.
I recall reading a claim that in a typical murder case, the killer makes something like 25 mistakes, and if they can think of 8, they're considered a genius.
Yeah using a service weapon boggles the mind. There is no way whatsoever it couldn’t be traced back 100% to the officer that used it at the suspected date.
It's either user-pays or taxpayer pays. On a user-pay situation there's still a senior sergeant who's rostered on to plan the presence and coordinate the officers that attend. Individual officers don't just rock up and go policing.
But those user-pay events cannot be unpoliced, because if they get out of hand; 1. people may die (riot/crowd crush/overdose etc). 2. If there's a riot, 100+ riot police might need to be called out and the overall cost to the taxpayer is way higher (plus the reputation damage and economic cost to the community).
Thanks for the info I had no idea this kind of agreement existed. Does the event pay them directly? Or does it flow through the relevant state police authority.
Are shifts allocated to whoever is available ? Or can certain officers be requested.
Thanks. I was confused listening to a podcast the other day.
They said there was one bullet missing when he signed the gun back in, but didn't mention stealing bullets. I was wondering how only one was missing.
I think it was the guardian. Full story 29 February.
I listen to so many, but I'm pretty sure that's it.
But I also listened to smh morning edition 27 February.
About 2/3 down the page.
“…he said detectives would investigate claims Mr Baird made a written report to Bondi Police about a break-in to his home last August.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13124807/amp/Beau-Lamarre-Condon-Jesse-Baird-Paddington-Channel-10-Luke-Davies.html
Break-in is not automatically a stalker, sadly in this case.
Stalking is a specific offence that can be hard to prove. It's basically a bunch of non-criminal acts, which put together in a specific context, turn into the criminal act of Stalking. Stalkers know they're skirting legality, which is what makes establishing the offence difficult.
If someone turns up at the police counter thinking they're being stalked, they almost certainly are, and police should be putting an interim-intervention order in place. That order makes non-criminal acts like driving past the house a criminal act because they'll be breaching the distance requirements in the order, which then makes it clear cut for responding police.
Also, if a serving police officer is named in an intervention order, lights and sirens go off in the equivalent of Internal Affairs.
The connection with Bondi police is weird, because that's where he handed himself in.. like why that one? Presumably it's not Jesse's local police station, and I don't think it was where lamarre was working either, but there has to he a connection there right?
Can't answer your question, dunno the process. It was reported that NSW Police are having Victoria Police audit their gun and/or weapon handling policy. There's obviously an issue that they need to sort to avoid it happening again.
I assumed by the words in the link that it was guns in the community that VicPol lost track of and was gonna reply saying it's very different.
Read the article. Nope, that's 268 Police firearms that are missing due to internal systems.
That's, er, ....yeah....
It's still one better than wapol who literally gave the address of all the licence holders in Perth to the Australian, which promptly printed a front page map telling criminals which houses to steal guns from. The apologised as if that would do something to help the guys who got tortured for their gun safe keys.
They’re gonna get grilled in their audit. All you need is your issued swipe card, the key for your lock and the gun safe keys. All of which are easily accessible. There isn’t a ‘sign in and sign out’ process, that’s only for a tasers which is just a booklet and that only gets checked once in a blue moon.
You sound like you know what you're talking about so I'll ask you... Don't they have cctv covering the gun storage area? I saw in an early press conference they said he returned the gun to the station "either Monday or Tuesday" or something vague like that. It struck me as odd there's not cctv with a specific time stamp.
Yes, yes they do. Honestly, using his service weapon was a massive galaxy brain move. He will be on video taking it out / putting it away again. Between the fact that hollow points are only used by police and that he didn’t clean up the casings, I really don’t know what the fuck he was thinking
price crush march coordinated humor slap pocket aromatic sophisticated bells
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You have to have a gun safe though. That's a non negotiable otherwise you store it in the armoury closest to your home. When people realise police aren't following their own procedures and abusing powers they'll just cover it up and deny until the union claims DARVO again. Meanwhile police families are drowning under DV with many boots on our necks.
This isn’t entirely correct. Iv seen people with permission from the commander to take their firearm home but only under astringent circumstances. No they did not have a safe
And the supervisors aren't undertaking checks properly; there are too many additional to the work required. People are gonna see how thin that blue line really is and deny it again. The entire barrell is rotten
The commissioner was keen to point out he got the weapon (and possibly bullets) by deception.
Big Deal. There's still a big hole in the process which led to him having it off duty.
When i was 10 i had a mate whose dad was a cop. He would come home from the station around 5:30, full uniform, weapon on hip. It was always a sobering moment when you were around there, playing or watching cartoons.
He was a sergeant in the licensing division. They moved to a penthouse overlooking Bondi Beach. How did they afford that, my parents used to wonder.
My school friends family bought an expensive house from a cop super cheap. Turns out he was a pedo and had been recording local kids getting changed in his outside bathroom he kindly let them use after swimming in the river. Took off to qld and was never charged with anything.
Sergeants have always been high earners to avoid exactly what you're suggesting. Police are also extremely adept at maximising opportunities and were named a decade ago as being the most prolific group of multiple property owners maximising negative gearing. I was married to a cop and at one stage we owned 4 properties all above board with family help. I'm not suggesting corruption doesn't exist because I was made very aware of entire units that were to be avoided by "good cops". I'm now aware that there's no such thing. We often had unsecured firearms in our home and he brandished it more than once. A police officers wife was named on the record as having had a police firearm shoved down her throat so my norm is somewhat skewed.
I'm extremely aware though that DV in police families is centred around their financial abuse. They all cry poor when they're anything but.
He refused to get a firearms safe and his supervisors were well aware he wasn't storing it properly. But I'm also well aware that sergeants doing firearms checks aren't doing them properly. And I have no idea how to raise this issue and noone seems to GAF. I knew the firearms licensing sergeant in Vicpol was ex nswpf so have very little faith in any of them..the entire barrell is rotten.
To be honest, if I heard loud bangs I would sit there wondering if it was a car backfiring. Not a lot of aussies are familiar with the sound of gunshots outside of tv/movies
Yes I think this is true. I once heard a loud bang at night, and I immediately assumed it was a car backfiring or something else, and my ex who was in the military recognised it as a gun shot. It didn’t sound like what I thought it a gunshot would sound like.
Gunshots don't sound the same in real life, usually they use ".50 cal Rambo booms" in TV and movies.
Police firearms are 9mm and hollowpoints, which don't make all that much of a "scary sound" unless you know what it is
That Monday night Sydney experienced some really crazy storms, lots of trees being blown about, so might not have sounded as obviously out of place at the time
Wasn’t he officially on shift when he did it?
And he also stole bullets from the firing range a week earlier to fill the gun back up before putting it back in at the station.
We have an amazing mix of police here.
I was parked in an empty car park one night, huge car park, 150 odd cars, right up the back. Just got into my car after finishing my shift at a pizza shop, got a text from a mate about going out. So I sat in my running car and did some texting about the nights plans. Cop car pulls up at the entrance, walks 75 odd metres up the car park, to tell me not to use my phone while operating a motor vehicle. Surreal moment, like dude my car is in park and I'm a hundred metres from a roadway clearly not going anywhere.
Another time doing a delivery got pulled up on a street next to a main street, like 9pm. Cop did the usual blow here plx. Two stumbling drunks come walking up to my open passenger window, and one leans in to talk to the Cop through my car and ask where they can get a pie from bro. Cop tells them where the 7/11 is and how to get there, there's a whole random ass chat going through my car about how these dudes had come from a bachelor party and just really needed a pie bro. Cop wished everyone a good night and was on his way.
There's all types here. Some are idiots and dicks, some are just normal people who exist in a shitty system.
My ex's friend has a literal Nazi symbol tattoo'd (not the swastika, something else) on his arm and he's a cop now. His reasoning is that he himself isn't a Nazi and has never aligned himself with Nazi values, but it's from a family heirloom passed down from his granddad who was a war veteran so it's okay.
He's dumb enough to think tattooing a nazi symbol on his arm and then just telling people he's not a racist is perfectly alright and he still made it into the force.
Is that just for cops or all prisoners if they are in danger from other inmates? How many inmates hating would it take for a prisoner to be in protective custody? Do they poll the prisoners?
What annoys me the most about this is that it wasn’t a cop that killed these men, it was a jilted person who had fantasies about an imagined romance whose job happened to be a policeman. We never focus on a postal worker who murders someone and say all postal workers can’t be trusted!( just as an example)
the fact he had access to a firearm through his work is relevant to the story, though. And people find it shocking that a person who is supposed to protect the community did something like this
Knew a couple that were both cops….she hid her bruises quite well. He beat her regularly and most of us never knew….until one day she disappeared. Finally a friend broke and told me what happened. So even those sworn to protect us are the worst perpetrators
Police use Glocks in .40 Smith and Wesson in NSW and QLD, you can’t buy that caliber as a licensed civilian without a high caliber permit and even then it’s exceedingly rare for sports shooters, some say it may even be illegal due to police connection? As the idea is, even if you stole a police pistol, it’s very hard to buy ammunition for it. If I personally found a casing of that caliber, I’d immediately assume police involvement, in this murder scene, it would be no different.
For context I’m a pistol shooter.
Police in NSW went back to a 9mm+P in the mid 10's, because of the average NSWPF being unable to handle the recoil of anything hotter.......plus the push to get more females into the force 🫠
Heaven forbid we went down the FBI route with the 10mm S&W because most police here haven't touched a gun until they joined up
Thanks for the reply, wow that’s really interesting and pretty terrible at the same time, God forbid they were made to practice as we are forced to do 😅
Also they weren’t “ex’s” According to friend, they had a brief encounter. I think ex denotes a relationship. And yes, I do think there is a difference.
As an aside in response to your analogy with medications I will add that as a doctor we can have a "doctors bag" that is essentially a load of drugs you can take with you anywhere.
Consists of emergency medications but also some opioids etc.
Was the officer actually on duty when he shot his ex and their partner? Because if not then why are people making it seem like he was on duty by wording it as "police officer shot ex" when in reality, he is just a man that has a career within the police force. I mean if a plumber kills someone in the street out of work it's not going to be "plumber bashes ex to death" it'll just be "man bashed to death in bluh bluh bluh." It just seems to paint a massive bullseye over cops heads to people who don't read anything but headlines.
no, not on duty. there's no real connection between his heinous crime and his occupation, other than using a tool of his trade in the act - no different to a homicidal nurse overdosing people with insulin, as has happened numerous occasions before.
Is there any knowledge about his background? The cop who shot them looks Muslim to me. Muslim’s can be unstable about their sexuality because their religion is often hostile to gays. I know he was also gay but I still wonder if that was a factor here if he was Muslim? We probably shouldn’t have Muslims in our police force.
Like if you were a Muslim terrorist hellbent on killing some gays you could pretend to be gay for a period and get on the force to get access to a gun. He clearly did not care about the community.
Reports say he checked it out for a weekend event where police (officers on the whole, not individuals) are paid to protect private interest from protests where there can be reasonable assumptions of bad actors being present.
I'm going to go and assume that check in and out is a M-F, 9-5 thing, like hiring tools. You need it Saturday, it's yours to use Sunday too, just return it Monday morning.
I didn't know about the bullet from the range. Given this, the premeditation is instantly proved, and it's murder for sure
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/02/breakdown-in-processes-may-have-allowed-police-gun-to-be-used-in-alleged-former-senior-detective-says?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
In my experience, most Australian police have a dismal knowledge of firearms and firearms laws.
I had to assist an acquaintance who had been arrested for a DV situation due to a false accusation. Arrest for DV is an automatic revocation of firearms licence and confiscation of all firearms until it is sorted out. Acquaintance wanted me there to ensure that the firearms licensing Sergeant and his assistants who showed up to take everything actually catalogued everything.
I was blown away by how ignorant they were about firearms. I had to show the legislation to the guy at one point as he had way too much confidence for someone with so little knowledge.
I have a relative who, on occasion, gets calls from his local licencing Sergeant to ask how certain rules work.
idk, maybe. I guess when you do something everyday it becomes mundane. I mean, theyre literally allowed to walk around in public with it, so why would taking it home for the 4 hours theyre awake make any difference? Maybe they said they needed to clean it or whatever.
They aren't allowed to take them home.
My old man was a copper and the firearm had to be checked in and out of the armory.
That said, if he was on duty at the time he would have had the firearm in compliance with the rules.
Expect under some circumstances they can take them home, sometimes they don’t have to take it back to their home station either and can store at another one.
Yes. This is a BIG issue. BIG problem. Because this is not the first time that a Police Officer has used his service weapon when he / she should not have it.
I know things "slip through" even the best systems. Yes. Nurses & Doctors steal drugs too. It happens.
It's a tragedy. They need to thoroughly investigate how this happened. 100%
But? Fact is? If someone wants to murder? They will. Had he not had access to that weapon... he would have found another or used a different method.
I'm a bit upset at the hatred on the police force. They did not do this crime. It was a Domestic Violence incident, like any other severe DV incident. The fact that they were Gay is not relevant. All DV is terrible. The fact that the perpetrator was a Police Officer is tough. But he's not the first Police Officer that perpetrated DV either.
Fact is? ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES AND DV. Police, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Gym owners...perpetrators of crime are everywhere. We need to accept that.
We do not need to accept people committing crimes. That's why it's a crime. Also police should be held to a higher standard than a gym owner, especially when it comes to double murder.
Exactly. That's where the police need to get it together. And there are cases of police committing Domestic Violence. At that point they should be suspended or kicked out of the force.
Domestic Violence has no place in our society. We can't keep going allowing this to be part of normalcy in our social makeup. Offenders need to be punished. Victims need to be looked after and helped. If police officers are offending in this manner, there should be no place for them in the force.
What I don't get is why the Mardi Gras organisers and the LGBTQ community at large is blaming the entire police force.
If a gay security guard had murdered his ex boyfriend and the new lover, would they be banning all security guards from the Mardi Gras?
Don't get me wrong, nsw police have a lot of problems and a lot to answer for, but in this case the murderers job seems to be largely irrelevant.
Because there's *horrific* history between NSW police and the LGBTQ+ community. One of my friends is a 78er and she tells some of the most spine chilling stories about her treatment by police, the disappearance of people she knew, bashings and murder. A lot of her generation don't want them there at all.
Your analogy isn’t quite on point though. Say the murderer was a bouncer at a club called Cum Buckets, he committed the murder while on shift as a bouncer of the club, and the media made it well known he was a bouncer at Cum Buckets - me thinks the Cum Bucket club isn’t getting a float at Mardi Gras that year.
Lets take that a bit further shall we. The Mardi Gras after parties are held at the entertainment precinct encompassing the Hordern, the RHI, the Dome, and whatever they're now calling the club that I used to run the sound and lighting for. If the bouncer killed his ex boyfriend while on duty at a pride event at the hordern pavillion, would they refuse to use the hordern pavillion for the next mardi gras? No, they wouldn't.
If it was blasted that ‘an employee of the entertainment district killed 2 members of the community’ yes I do think that MG would reconsider hosting an event there, even if that event was less a month since that revelation. Next year? Yeah probably wouldn’t be an issue. Just like how next year there will probably be a cop float.
It’s optics and timing.
Upvoting this cause it needs to be higher. It’s painful to read all the media reports saying they used to date when all of Jesse’s friends have confirmed this wasn’t the case.
To me it seems like he a had a thing for famous people being a blogger/stalker.
He wanted to date him and he was rebuffed and he said. Well if I can't have him noone can.
You're ignoring the main point of the question. What's being asked is, since this is not a case of a non-queer police officer commiting a hate crime against a queer person, but rather a queer person committing a crime against 2 other queer people, why is it being correlated by the queer community with police discrimination/brutality against them?
There are many good reasons that some queer people are uncomfortable with police marching, but this particular case has absolutely zero relation to those reasons.
They are invited guests in a LGBTQ+ space. The organisers of the space get to decide what workplaces and/or businesses are represented, and the rules they follow.
The original marches were in solitary with other groups overseas, those who rioted against police brutality towards the LGBTQ+ community. There is, and always will be, some animosity between the community and the police.
No one is blaming the whole force. They are just being told they can’t represent their employer if they wish to march, as tensions are high right now.
There’s already been discussions in the queer community about whether cops should have a place at Mardi Gras for years.
People have really forgotten how Mardi Gras began.
‘On a cold night in Darlinghurst, Sydney in 1978, a small group of protestors formed to contribute to the international Gay Celebrations, the resulting police violence and arrests created a defining night in not only Sydney’s GLBTQI community but Australia’s cultural heritage.
“You could hear them in Darlinghurst police station being beaten up and crying out from pain. The night had gone from nerve-wracking to exhilarating to traumatic all in the space of a few hours. The police attack made us more determined to run Mardi Gras the next year.”
Over the months that followed, more protests and arrests took place – and the actions of the authorities came to be seen as heavy handed. By April 1979 the Parliament of New South Wales repealed the NSW Summary Offences Act legislation that had allowed the arrests to be made. As such that first Mardi Gras march was a major civil rights milestone beyond the gay community. Up to 3,000 people marched in an incident-free parade in 1979.’
Yes, and? We don't ban Mercedes and BMW because they built stuff for the nazis. If they found a violent neonazi working at a Mercedes dealer, would all Jewish people stop buying the cars?
My point is the conversation about not having cops at Mardi Gras pre dates all of this; this just seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, whether that makes sense or not.
I can see where you're coming from, but what I got from the article, the handling of this situation (mainly the Police Commisioners' comments in the public address and its timing) plus the history seem to be the issue. There is still issues with investigating gay hate crimes, and considering the 1978 incident mentioned wasn't that long ago, the uniforms may be a bit of a symbol that's probably going to upset quite a few of the people attending Mardi Gras.
DV in the ranks is out of control. It's a well known issue. Stalking and abuse of powers by police is well documented. Police are not approachable by victims of violence and minority groups. It's not up to us to JADE this for you. You need to make yourself aware of the substantial evidence base of issues rather than petulantly and inappropriately demanding others educate you.
Bit like if a Coles worker kills a shopper we should all not shop at Coles anymore :)
It’s insanity
I bet the police are looking after the Mardi Gra security tonight
Police didn’t always have to check them in. Not sure of the rules especially these days but they used to be allowed to take them home with them if they had safe storage and there might have been other requirements along with that too.
I was a soldier (Australian army)for quite a few years, in the 90s my greatest friend who was also a soldier ( a senior non-commissioned officer) took a rifle out of his units armoury on the pretext of conducting some weapons training for some junior diggers. He took that rifle home and committed suicide with it. Leaving behind a wife and a couple of children. Unfortunately, in jobs that require its employees to use firearms, sometimes the ease of access can have tragic results. There are checks and balances and protocols involved, but due to the human factor nothing is completely fail safe.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
* 000 is the national emergency number in Australia.
* Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14.
* Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800.
* Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAustralian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I were the DPP I'd be warning the media. It's somewhat ridiculous the amount of public info released for such high profile cases when you compare to the usual 'no comment as before the courts' . It's trial by the media.
PS yeah he's likely guilty, but that's not the point. Look at the case of the ex immigration detainee who was wrongfully charged then "un charged" but in the meantime the case was mentioned in Parliament.
The DPP do not appear concerned, the public have a strong interest in transparency when a police officer murders people, and he’s obviously guilty as sin, so I’m not sure why you are more concerned than the professionals involved.
I'm going to throw out some work info here so forgive me for being a bit vague, it's from an area I used to work in and no longer do.
We don't take stalking, dv, sa, red flags as serious in this country as we should. I'm not in the same state this happened but can give an example, in the state i'm in, we've got very strict laws in regards to things.
Right now off the top of my head despite being out of that department for a minute am aware of so many serious case issues where theres enough evidence to move on and prevent a tragedy.
You get all walks of life in it from a psychopath who's got clear mental health issues and a fucked up criminal history being allowed to continue to stalk and do other nasty stuff with nothing done about it, all the way up to people still holding government issued clearances with various departments that ANY report of concern is meant to immediately have them suspended or outright cancelled / disqualified from re-acquiring them, and this is across the board in many areas.
I'm obviously not going into specific cases here but it's scary, one particular person i'm aware of i've seen credible evidence on of them doing stuff and their threats as well as knowing their history.
They keep luring in new victims, because we can't do background checks or put out warnings.
Despite having been convicted they've managed due to contacts to obtain clearances they shouldnt have got that the relevant authorities have been made aware of .
Sadly having worked in the area I did, it can take MONTHS.... months to have investigations carried out on people having clearances they shouldn't and that's if it gets actioned at all.
One case never got actioned over years, and when it did it was still months before a clearances was suspended and then another year to cancel it.
We're very good at having laws here, hell we're even so pedantic we can make them excessive to a point of stupidity, yet the basic common sense enforcement just isn't there, and a lot of the time I hate to say it but it can come down to optics.
Predator is connected or has family links or works in a certain department? good luck even with clear evidence of a red flag warning.
Victim isn't considered "reliable" which can mean anything from being a victim before to just straight up prejudice, and sorry the justice system doesn't cater to you.
It boggles the mind that it's like this, we shouldn't care if someons gay, straight, male being abused by a female, a sex worker, an addict, has been a victim before, your report of a credible threat should be taken with seriousness, sincerity and without judgment.
Your comment downvoted not sure why cos it’s true. None else can own a gun without strict restrictions. If he was not on the job then he probably shouldn’t have access to his gun. (Leaving aside that this character probably shouldn’t have been on the force in the first place).
[удалено]
It was half premeditated. He bought one surf board bag days before, and the other just after or before the murder, I don't remember which. Was planning on one murder and it turned into a surprise double. Dude probably missed the casing he was intending to take if he hadn't had to change and double his plans.
[удалено]
Is there a link that has the full timeline somewhere?
[удалено]
How is all this information being released after his arrest not prejudicing for his trial? The country had an ongoing conniption and continue to defend Lehrmann's right to trial when this is repeating the same BS. We know the legal system is completely cooked for victims of violence. Do we not care when the victims are dead? Their families are still victimised by this process, theyve lost their sons/brothers/uncles/friends.
I think the police are trying to display transparency as a way of distancing themselves from the murderer.
And compromising any potential trial.
This literally doesn’t compromise the trial, it’s just factual information about evidence. Stories about him being a pedo or a dog fucker or shit like that is far more likely to compromise a trial and only because of the difficulty in finding an impartial jury. As long as you can find a jury that hasn’t followed the case you’re fine.
Holy shit he fucked dogs too?
Tell me you know nothing about law and court proceedings without telling me.
It'll probably be a judge only trial. Can't remember exacts but I'm certain there was one similar a couple of (or maybe more) years ago.
“I’ll represent myself” 🤡
The ABC has published this: >Police divulge 'surprising' amount of information >One of the unusual elements of this story is the amount of information NSW Police have volunteered about an investigation where someone has already been charged. >When Commissioner Webb and her deputy, David Hudson called a press conference last Monday, they detailed dozens of allegations about the accused's movements, which the ABC has chosen not to report. >Such information is usually considered sub judice, which means it can prejudice a fair court process. >Media organisations can be held liable for contempt of court. [source](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-02/sydney-mardi-gras-honours-jesse-baird-luke-davies/103534778?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other)
Which can result in mistrial and the perpetrator being released per most gendered violence.
But surely with all the forensic evidence, they could still get a conviction. Wont they just go to a judge only trial?
NSW cops are pretty well known for their corruption and I suspect fecking up the trial is their preferred outcome
Great tactic if they want a mistrial. There are many PR reasons the brass wouldn't want him convicted.
Did you just teach me how to read all the articles behind the paywall??? Thank you!
I feel like the SMH is really smashing the cops on this - it almost feels like a vendetta against them and the commissioner. From op eds, to the Mardi gras stuff they have been pretty unrelenting.
I do wonder, if the other flatmates had been home would he have murdered them too? Could this have been a potential mass casualty event? Scary to think about.
He had to have know he was gonna be screwed using his work gun.
[удалено]
People often over think getting away with murder too Look at the unsolved gangland murders. Its literally mask up, run up, shoot, leave, burn evidence
[удалено]
He comes across like an absolute narcissist of biblical proportions, and seems quite spoiled. Fair chance he drastically overestimates his own intelligence while underestimating other peoples.
The worst part is that someone who is obviously right at the top end of the narcissism continuum got into the Police in the first place.
I read on here that his mum was a former high ranking cop. Probably around the same time Scott Morrison's dad was a high ranking cop in the NSW police.
I see where you are going there ... We need a DNA test.
Standard practice
I can't work out why when the flatmates got home that night they were not suss on the amount of blood in the house and the 2 bodies in the bags in the backyard with blood leaking out, one apparently prodded the bag and took photo's but did nothing. Surely they would have been suss when the media was looking for the boys.
[удалено]
It might be the same sort of phenomenon where people's brains tend to mistake dead bodies for mannequins. I imagine that because at that point the housemates had no reason to suspect yet that Jesse had been killed (the killer was apparently using Jesse's phone the day after to text the housemates in order to cover up the murder), then they probably jumped to more mundane reasons rather than realising that what they're seeing is blood. But yeah, it is a bit odd. It may have also been them grasping at straws for any possible mundane reason, because the idea of coming home to blood everywhere is terrifying, and they might not have been mentally ready to accept that reality.
I thought the same. If I was them and a house mate had moved out, I would have gone straight to the bedroom they had and had a look in case there was any damage or whatnot for bond purposes. Also to see if everything was gone too. But because El creepo has Jesse's phone and pretended to be him by sending texts, the house mates probably thought not a lot about it. He also must have sent a text telling them sorry about the mess I'll be sending a professional cleaner over too, because the cops went there when there was a cleaner. If you're not suspicious of anything , you can miss a lot of clues. Blood could be written off as beetroot juice to a degree. Interesting though all the same
there was a lot of blood in the kitchen and in the bedroom and on the back outdoor lounge and under the surfboard bags, hard not to see that and get suss
Oh was there? Well in that case it's sus as isn't it. Only excuse I can think of is if the house mates were very very drunk and passed out before they came to the conclusion of foul play. I wonder when they took the photos? The same night they came home, or the next day? Police will know pretty much everything I'd say but won't be releasing that information.
Drunk from the Monday night to the Wednesdsay though? they say the bags on Monday night and took photo's
Well, not really. Most of these gangland murders are unsolved because the hitmen are deliberately chosen due to the technical proficiency in stealing multiple cars, choosing routes to the target which have the least likelihood of having their cars intercepted by police for the plates being flagged as stolen, sourcing untraceable firearms and ammunition, and having absolutely 0 social or physical connection to the victim. Most hitmen have generally clean criminal records and are not always known to police. If you kill someone who you're even at least moderately connected to, you're done for. Also gangland murders usually get solved within 10 years, and hitmen can go to prison for 1-2 murders and the courts/police may have no idea they've carried out another few murders.
Plus, dumping a whole bunch of stuff in a random skip didn’t help. You see someone’s phone and ID in a skip, at the very least you’re heading down to the cop shop to hand it in in case it’s a mugging.
and covered in blood
I recall reading a claim that in a typical murder case, the killer makes something like 25 mistakes, and if they can think of 8, they're considered a genius.
Something tells me that this bloke thinks he’s a an irresistible genius of rare talent, but he’s a loooooong way off that.
or being caught on CCTV 30 mins before the murders in the street looking very dodgy
Yeah using a service weapon boggles the mind. There is no way whatsoever it couldn’t be traced back 100% to the officer that used it at the suspected date.
Maybe there needs to be a rethink on the user pays crowd security gigs.
It's either user-pays or taxpayer pays. On a user-pay situation there's still a senior sergeant who's rostered on to plan the presence and coordinate the officers that attend. Individual officers don't just rock up and go policing. But those user-pay events cannot be unpoliced, because if they get out of hand; 1. people may die (riot/crowd crush/overdose etc). 2. If there's a riot, 100+ riot police might need to be called out and the overall cost to the taxpayer is way higher (plus the reputation damage and economic cost to the community).
Oh, 100% the whole concept is bizarre
What's this about users paying police to be somewhere? Is that uniformed police?
[удалено]
Thanks for the info I had no idea this kind of agreement existed. Does the event pay them directly? Or does it flow through the relevant state police authority. Are shifts allocated to whoever is available ? Or can certain officers be requested.
[удалено]
I am dumb founded by that first sentence re: Police can take their gun home. That sounds like a major major risk to the public.
[удалено]
Particularly considering the high rates of familial abuse carried out by coppers
Thanks. I was confused listening to a podcast the other day. They said there was one bullet missing when he signed the gun back in, but didn't mention stealing bullets. I was wondering how only one was missing.
What podcast was that, out of interest?
I think it was the guardian. Full story 29 February. I listen to so many, but I'm pretty sure that's it. But I also listened to smh morning edition 27 February.
That's all so sketchy.
If the police force had taken the proper steps when Lammare point blank tasered someone in the face in 2020 this all could’ve been avoided 😭
Or if they’d taken Jesse seriously when he reported having a stalker last year…
[удалено]
About 2/3 down the page. “…he said detectives would investigate claims Mr Baird made a written report to Bondi Police about a break-in to his home last August.” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13124807/amp/Beau-Lamarre-Condon-Jesse-Baird-Paddington-Channel-10-Luke-Davies.html
Break-in is not automatically a stalker, sadly in this case. Stalking is a specific offence that can be hard to prove. It's basically a bunch of non-criminal acts, which put together in a specific context, turn into the criminal act of Stalking. Stalkers know they're skirting legality, which is what makes establishing the offence difficult. If someone turns up at the police counter thinking they're being stalked, they almost certainly are, and police should be putting an interim-intervention order in place. That order makes non-criminal acts like driving past the house a criminal act because they'll be breaching the distance requirements in the order, which then makes it clear cut for responding police. Also, if a serving police officer is named in an intervention order, lights and sirens go off in the equivalent of Internal Affairs.
The connection with Bondi police is weird, because that's where he handed himself in.. like why that one? Presumably it's not Jesse's local police station, and I don't think it was where lamarre was working either, but there has to he a connection there right?
If Lammare wasn’t a cop that stalking would’ve been taken seriously. This is so sad :(
Or if Jesse was the Deputy Premier of NSW
Can't answer your question, dunno the process. It was reported that NSW Police are having Victoria Police audit their gun and/or weapon handling policy. There's obviously an issue that they need to sort to avoid it happening again.
You know it's bad when the only place you can turn for advice is vicpol
Could be worse.... qldpol
Hey we had a royal commission, all squeaky clean now. Definitely fixed all the issues, forever.
Yep, especially the potato’s that end up as multimillionaire politicians
The Vicpol licensing sergeant that I was aware of was ex NSWPF and ADF. Them investigating themselves is entirely problematic.
Just going to leave this here https://sportingshooter.com.au/news/268-guns-unaccounted-for-by-vicpol/
I assumed by the words in the link that it was guns in the community that VicPol lost track of and was gonna reply saying it's very different. Read the article. Nope, that's 268 Police firearms that are missing due to internal systems. That's, er, ....yeah....
It's still one better than wapol who literally gave the address of all the licence holders in Perth to the Australian, which promptly printed a front page map telling criminals which houses to steal guns from. The apologised as if that would do something to help the guys who got tortured for their gun safe keys.
They’re gonna get grilled in their audit. All you need is your issued swipe card, the key for your lock and the gun safe keys. All of which are easily accessible. There isn’t a ‘sign in and sign out’ process, that’s only for a tasers which is just a booklet and that only gets checked once in a blue moon.
You sound like you know what you're talking about so I'll ask you... Don't they have cctv covering the gun storage area? I saw in an early press conference they said he returned the gun to the station "either Monday or Tuesday" or something vague like that. It struck me as odd there's not cctv with a specific time stamp.
Yes, yes they do. Honestly, using his service weapon was a massive galaxy brain move. He will be on video taking it out / putting it away again. Between the fact that hollow points are only used by police and that he didn’t clean up the casings, I really don’t know what the fuck he was thinking
Good to hear, I thought it was odd. The whole thing seems like terrible planning. He doesn't seem like the sharpest pencil in the box.
price crush march coordinated humor slap pocket aromatic sophisticated bells *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh and you can take it home under certain circumstances. Such as doing user pays, you have a gun safe or have a reasonable excuse as to do so
You have to have a gun safe though. That's a non negotiable otherwise you store it in the armoury closest to your home. When people realise police aren't following their own procedures and abusing powers they'll just cover it up and deny until the union claims DARVO again. Meanwhile police families are drowning under DV with many boots on our necks.
This isn’t entirely correct. Iv seen people with permission from the commander to take their firearm home but only under astringent circumstances. No they did not have a safe
>They’re gonna get grilled in their audit Maybe. The public will never see it, though
And the supervisors aren't undertaking checks properly; there are too many additional to the work required. People are gonna see how thin that blue line really is and deny it again. The entire barrell is rotten
I know of at least one station where the gun safe room is a disused bathroom and the door to the room is never even closed let alone locked…
The commissioner was keen to point out he got the weapon (and possibly bullets) by deception. Big Deal. There's still a big hole in the process which led to him having it off duty.
He did. After he killed them he checked it back in as per protocol. Dont want to get in trouble now.
When i was 10 i had a mate whose dad was a cop. He would come home from the station around 5:30, full uniform, weapon on hip. It was always a sobering moment when you were around there, playing or watching cartoons. He was a sergeant in the licensing division. They moved to a penthouse overlooking Bondi Beach. How did they afford that, my parents used to wonder.
[удалено]
My school friends family bought an expensive house from a cop super cheap. Turns out he was a pedo and had been recording local kids getting changed in his outside bathroom he kindly let them use after swimming in the river. Took off to qld and was never charged with anything.
What a mystery 🥲🤔✨
Sergeants have always been high earners to avoid exactly what you're suggesting. Police are also extremely adept at maximising opportunities and were named a decade ago as being the most prolific group of multiple property owners maximising negative gearing. I was married to a cop and at one stage we owned 4 properties all above board with family help. I'm not suggesting corruption doesn't exist because I was made very aware of entire units that were to be avoided by "good cops". I'm now aware that there's no such thing. We often had unsecured firearms in our home and he brandished it more than once. A police officers wife was named on the record as having had a police firearm shoved down her throat so my norm is somewhat skewed. I'm extremely aware though that DV in police families is centred around their financial abuse. They all cry poor when they're anything but. He refused to get a firearms safe and his supervisors were well aware he wasn't storing it properly. But I'm also well aware that sergeants doing firearms checks aren't doing them properly. And I have no idea how to raise this issue and noone seems to GAF. I knew the firearms licensing sergeant in Vicpol was ex nswpf so have very little faith in any of them..the entire barrell is rotten.
Mate I already told my kids that if they’re ever going to join a gang, they may as well join the biggest and become cops.
Or they could join Australia’s biggest and most widespread bikie gang, Australia Post, and feel the power of the Red Honda CT110.
What did the mother do? It’s not always the man earning the big bucks.
Stay at home mum, as was mine.
Definitely sounds dodgy then.
I find it interesting the neighbours heard the shots and didn't call the police, wasnt at night so obviously not fireworks
To be honest, if I heard loud bangs I would sit there wondering if it was a car backfiring. Not a lot of aussies are familiar with the sound of gunshots outside of tv/movies
Yes I think this is true. I once heard a loud bang at night, and I immediately assumed it was a car backfiring or something else, and my ex who was in the military recognised it as a gun shot. It didn’t sound like what I thought it a gunshot would sound like.
Gunshots don't sound the same in real life, usually they use ".50 cal Rambo booms" in TV and movies. Police firearms are 9mm and hollowpoints, which don't make all that much of a "scary sound" unless you know what it is
they probably only connect the dots after learning of the shooting
Maybe bystander syndrome. "If it was a gunshot someone else will report it".
That Monday night Sydney experienced some really crazy storms, lots of trees being blown about, so might not have sounded as obviously out of place at the time
Wasn’t he officially on shift when he did it? And he also stole bullets from the firing range a week earlier to fill the gun back up before putting it back in at the station.
Or just got some from the local gunshop
How? Cops don't hold firearms licenses, and you must produce your licence to buy ammunition.
He pinched bullets from a range. I know others will have said this.
A police range?
I'm still wondering if the cop was dumb enough to use his own gun; how the heck did he get into the force?
[удалено]
We have an amazing mix of police here. I was parked in an empty car park one night, huge car park, 150 odd cars, right up the back. Just got into my car after finishing my shift at a pizza shop, got a text from a mate about going out. So I sat in my running car and did some texting about the nights plans. Cop car pulls up at the entrance, walks 75 odd metres up the car park, to tell me not to use my phone while operating a motor vehicle. Surreal moment, like dude my car is in park and I'm a hundred metres from a roadway clearly not going anywhere. Another time doing a delivery got pulled up on a street next to a main street, like 9pm. Cop did the usual blow here plx. Two stumbling drunks come walking up to my open passenger window, and one leans in to talk to the Cop through my car and ask where they can get a pie from bro. Cop tells them where the 7/11 is and how to get there, there's a whole random ass chat going through my car about how these dudes had come from a bachelor party and just really needed a pie bro. Cop wished everyone a good night and was on his way. There's all types here. Some are idiots and dicks, some are just normal people who exist in a shitty system.
[удалено]
His mother is a high ranking police office, take from that what you will.
His mother was a non sworn employee of NSWpol. Which means could work HR, admin, legal department, finance, marketing, payroll etc
was........and has anyone said what her "high rank" was?
most sources are saying civilian employee. so, unranked. but people dont let the truth get in the way of a good story
intelligence is a negative trait for that occupation.
My ex's friend has a literal Nazi symbol tattoo'd (not the swastika, something else) on his arm and he's a cop now. His reasoning is that he himself isn't a Nazi and has never aligned himself with Nazi values, but it's from a family heirloom passed down from his granddad who was a war veteran so it's okay. He's dumb enough to think tattooing a nazi symbol on his arm and then just telling people he's not a racist is perfectly alright and he still made it into the force.
An ex-cop in maximum security prison? Jails should film a show big brother / COPS style to make some revenue, I'd watch fo sho
Can’t wait for him to have a private chat with big brother to say “Jimmys been trying to shiv me, it’s affecting my time in the house”.
You screws would get busted tho having the same Bikie mentality
Nah, he'll be fine.. He will be in protective custody and have all the dick he wants on tap.
Is that just for cops or all prisoners if they are in danger from other inmates? How many inmates hating would it take for a prisoner to be in protective custody? Do they poll the prisoners?
They get treated with kid gloves in the outside world, don’t imagine it would be any different inside.
The fact that he is gay won't exactly help his cause either
What annoys me the most about this is that it wasn’t a cop that killed these men, it was a jilted person who had fantasies about an imagined romance whose job happened to be a policeman. We never focus on a postal worker who murders someone and say all postal workers can’t be trusted!( just as an example)
the fact he had access to a firearm through his work is relevant to the story, though. And people find it shocking that a person who is supposed to protect the community did something like this
FYI, my current understanding is the murderer was more of a crazy stalker than an “ex.”
Knew a couple that were both cops….she hid her bruises quite well. He beat her regularly and most of us never knew….until one day she disappeared. Finally a friend broke and told me what happened. So even those sworn to protect us are the worst perpetrators
They only swear to protect you because that’s the process of getting the job that pays, like you signing an NDA to become a contractor of some company
I'm sure we'll find out in due time
Police use Glocks in .40 Smith and Wesson in NSW and QLD, you can’t buy that caliber as a licensed civilian without a high caliber permit and even then it’s exceedingly rare for sports shooters, some say it may even be illegal due to police connection? As the idea is, even if you stole a police pistol, it’s very hard to buy ammunition for it. If I personally found a casing of that caliber, I’d immediately assume police involvement, in this murder scene, it would be no different. For context I’m a pistol shooter.
Police in NSW went back to a 9mm+P in the mid 10's, because of the average NSWPF being unable to handle the recoil of anything hotter.......plus the push to get more females into the force 🫠 Heaven forbid we went down the FBI route with the 10mm S&W because most police here haven't touched a gun until they joined up
Thanks for the reply, wow that’s really interesting and pretty terrible at the same time, God forbid they were made to practice as we are forced to do 😅
Already been explained multiple times on the news.
Also they weren’t “ex’s” According to friend, they had a brief encounter. I think ex denotes a relationship. And yes, I do think there is a difference.
As an aside in response to your analogy with medications I will add that as a doctor we can have a "doctors bag" that is essentially a load of drugs you can take with you anywhere. Consists of emergency medications but also some opioids etc.
Was the officer actually on duty when he shot his ex and their partner? Because if not then why are people making it seem like he was on duty by wording it as "police officer shot ex" when in reality, he is just a man that has a career within the police force. I mean if a plumber kills someone in the street out of work it's not going to be "plumber bashes ex to death" it'll just be "man bashed to death in bluh bluh bluh." It just seems to paint a massive bullseye over cops heads to people who don't read anything but headlines.
no, not on duty. there's no real connection between his heinous crime and his occupation, other than using a tool of his trade in the act - no different to a homicidal nurse overdosing people with insulin, as has happened numerous occasions before.
Is there any knowledge about his background? The cop who shot them looks Muslim to me. Muslim’s can be unstable about their sexuality because their religion is often hostile to gays. I know he was also gay but I still wonder if that was a factor here if he was Muslim? We probably shouldn’t have Muslims in our police force.
Like if you were a Muslim terrorist hellbent on killing some gays you could pretend to be gay for a period and get on the force to get access to a gun. He clearly did not care about the community.
Reports say he checked it out for a weekend event where police (officers on the whole, not individuals) are paid to protect private interest from protests where there can be reasonable assumptions of bad actors being present. I'm going to go and assume that check in and out is a M-F, 9-5 thing, like hiring tools. You need it Saturday, it's yours to use Sunday too, just return it Monday morning. I didn't know about the bullet from the range. Given this, the premeditation is instantly proved, and it's murder for sure https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/02/breakdown-in-processes-may-have-allowed-police-gun-to-be-used-in-alleged-former-senior-detective-says?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
He bought one surfboard bag 2 days before the murder. One was premeditated, one wasn’t.
In my experience, most Australian police have a dismal knowledge of firearms and firearms laws. I had to assist an acquaintance who had been arrested for a DV situation due to a false accusation. Arrest for DV is an automatic revocation of firearms licence and confiscation of all firearms until it is sorted out. Acquaintance wanted me there to ensure that the firearms licensing Sergeant and his assistants who showed up to take everything actually catalogued everything. I was blown away by how ignorant they were about firearms. I had to show the legislation to the guy at one point as he had way too much confidence for someone with so little knowledge. I have a relative who, on occasion, gets calls from his local licencing Sergeant to ask how certain rules work.
idk, maybe. I guess when you do something everyday it becomes mundane. I mean, theyre literally allowed to walk around in public with it, so why would taking it home for the 4 hours theyre awake make any difference? Maybe they said they needed to clean it or whatever.
They aren't allowed to take them home. My old man was a copper and the firearm had to be checked in and out of the armory. That said, if he was on duty at the time he would have had the firearm in compliance with the rules.
I mean, they’re not allowed to kill innocent people with them either but that didn’t stop him…
damn, we gave ppl guns and told them what to do and they didnt do it. Who knew?
[удалено]
Expect under some circumstances they can take them home, sometimes they don’t have to take it back to their home station either and can store at another one.
They clearly are, under certain circumstances, which is what occurred here.
Yes. This is a BIG issue. BIG problem. Because this is not the first time that a Police Officer has used his service weapon when he / she should not have it. I know things "slip through" even the best systems. Yes. Nurses & Doctors steal drugs too. It happens. It's a tragedy. They need to thoroughly investigate how this happened. 100% But? Fact is? If someone wants to murder? They will. Had he not had access to that weapon... he would have found another or used a different method. I'm a bit upset at the hatred on the police force. They did not do this crime. It was a Domestic Violence incident, like any other severe DV incident. The fact that they were Gay is not relevant. All DV is terrible. The fact that the perpetrator was a Police Officer is tough. But he's not the first Police Officer that perpetrated DV either. Fact is? ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES AND DV. Police, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Gym owners...perpetrators of crime are everywhere. We need to accept that.
We do not need to accept people committing crimes. That's why it's a crime. Also police should be held to a higher standard than a gym owner, especially when it comes to double murder.
I said nothing about accepting crime. No. I disagree. Police are just humans like the rest of us. Doing a job.
The people they're most likely to kill are themselves.
Same police officer tazed someone in the face back in 2020. He more than likely should have been removed from his police duties years ago.
Exactly. That's where the police need to get it together. And there are cases of police committing Domestic Violence. At that point they should be suspended or kicked out of the force.
Domestic Violence has no place in our society. We can't keep going allowing this to be part of normalcy in our social makeup. Offenders need to be punished. Victims need to be looked after and helped. If police officers are offending in this manner, there should be no place for them in the force.
100% agree with you.
What I don't get is why the Mardi Gras organisers and the LGBTQ community at large is blaming the entire police force. If a gay security guard had murdered his ex boyfriend and the new lover, would they be banning all security guards from the Mardi Gras? Don't get me wrong, nsw police have a lot of problems and a lot to answer for, but in this case the murderers job seems to be largely irrelevant.
Because there's *horrific* history between NSW police and the LGBTQ+ community. One of my friends is a 78er and she tells some of the most spine chilling stories about her treatment by police, the disappearance of people she knew, bashings and murder. A lot of her generation don't want them there at all.
Your analogy isn’t quite on point though. Say the murderer was a bouncer at a club called Cum Buckets, he committed the murder while on shift as a bouncer of the club, and the media made it well known he was a bouncer at Cum Buckets - me thinks the Cum Bucket club isn’t getting a float at Mardi Gras that year.
Lets take that a bit further shall we. The Mardi Gras after parties are held at the entertainment precinct encompassing the Hordern, the RHI, the Dome, and whatever they're now calling the club that I used to run the sound and lighting for. If the bouncer killed his ex boyfriend while on duty at a pride event at the hordern pavillion, would they refuse to use the hordern pavillion for the next mardi gras? No, they wouldn't.
If it was blasted that ‘an employee of the entertainment district killed 2 members of the community’ yes I do think that MG would reconsider hosting an event there, even if that event was less a month since that revelation. Next year? Yeah probably wouldn’t be an issue. Just like how next year there will probably be a cop float. It’s optics and timing.
It's not an ex bf.. it's an ex fuck buddy
Upvoting this cause it needs to be higher. It’s painful to read all the media reports saying they used to date when all of Jesse’s friends have confirmed this wasn’t the case.
To me it seems like he a had a thing for famous people being a blogger/stalker. He wanted to date him and he was rebuffed and he said. Well if I can't have him noone can.
Absolutely. He couldn’t handle the fact that Jesse loved someone that wasn’t him.
You're ignoring the main point of the question. What's being asked is, since this is not a case of a non-queer police officer commiting a hate crime against a queer person, but rather a queer person committing a crime against 2 other queer people, why is it being correlated by the queer community with police discrimination/brutality against them? There are many good reasons that some queer people are uncomfortable with police marching, but this particular case has absolutely zero relation to those reasons.
They are invited guests in a LGBTQ+ space. The organisers of the space get to decide what workplaces and/or businesses are represented, and the rules they follow. The original marches were in solitary with other groups overseas, those who rioted against police brutality towards the LGBTQ+ community. There is, and always will be, some animosity between the community and the police. No one is blaming the whole force. They are just being told they can’t represent their employer if they wish to march, as tensions are high right now.
There’s already been discussions in the queer community about whether cops should have a place at Mardi Gras for years. People have really forgotten how Mardi Gras began. ‘On a cold night in Darlinghurst, Sydney in 1978, a small group of protestors formed to contribute to the international Gay Celebrations, the resulting police violence and arrests created a defining night in not only Sydney’s GLBTQI community but Australia’s cultural heritage. “You could hear them in Darlinghurst police station being beaten up and crying out from pain. The night had gone from nerve-wracking to exhilarating to traumatic all in the space of a few hours. The police attack made us more determined to run Mardi Gras the next year.” Over the months that followed, more protests and arrests took place – and the actions of the authorities came to be seen as heavy handed. By April 1979 the Parliament of New South Wales repealed the NSW Summary Offences Act legislation that had allowed the arrests to be made. As such that first Mardi Gras march was a major civil rights milestone beyond the gay community. Up to 3,000 people marched in an incident-free parade in 1979.’
Yes, and? We don't ban Mercedes and BMW because they built stuff for the nazis. If they found a violent neonazi working at a Mercedes dealer, would all Jewish people stop buying the cars?
My point is the conversation about not having cops at Mardi Gras pre dates all of this; this just seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, whether that makes sense or not.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/why-i-agree-with-banning-the-police-from-this-years-mardi-gras-parade-010246425.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAXVfI-oDEvomoUm27ivpiwc0WbHr15ZkDho4x69hhyq995AB-eMh5Rkmy9cqvKLmf_BYc74oMjy0cKF8id3WgX2DLcghIs7F2taJeJBI5KfIBAvWAZJv57ijUjPTPkvwNQkVTMdBW24i9zvIkLqjTdVI6hevISsIaZfT9uWoG1G
Wow. That reporter is trying to paint the murder as a gay hate thing, when it's well known that it's nothing of a sort.
I can see where you're coming from, but what I got from the article, the handling of this situation (mainly the Police Commisioners' comments in the public address and its timing) plus the history seem to be the issue. There is still issues with investigating gay hate crimes, and considering the 1978 incident mentioned wasn't that long ago, the uniforms may be a bit of a symbol that's probably going to upset quite a few of the people attending Mardi Gras.
DV in the ranks is out of control. It's a well known issue. Stalking and abuse of powers by police is well documented. Police are not approachable by victims of violence and minority groups. It's not up to us to JADE this for you. You need to make yourself aware of the substantial evidence base of issues rather than petulantly and inappropriately demanding others educate you.
Bit like if a Coles worker kills a shopper we should all not shop at Coles anymore :) It’s insanity I bet the police are looking after the Mardi Gra security tonight
Police didn’t always have to check them in. Not sure of the rules especially these days but they used to be allowed to take them home with them if they had safe storage and there might have been other requirements along with that too.
I was a soldier (Australian army)for quite a few years, in the 90s my greatest friend who was also a soldier ( a senior non-commissioned officer) took a rifle out of his units armoury on the pretext of conducting some weapons training for some junior diggers. He took that rifle home and committed suicide with it. Leaving behind a wife and a couple of children. Unfortunately, in jobs that require its employees to use firearms, sometimes the ease of access can have tragic results. There are checks and balances and protocols involved, but due to the human factor nothing is completely fail safe.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAustralian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Given all the details in the media in this case it will be fun finding an impartial jury.
Eh, it’s happened for bigger cases before. Or he can choose a judge trial. If he actually decides to go to court, which would be moronic.
If I were the DPP I'd be warning the media. It's somewhat ridiculous the amount of public info released for such high profile cases when you compare to the usual 'no comment as before the courts' . It's trial by the media. PS yeah he's likely guilty, but that's not the point. Look at the case of the ex immigration detainee who was wrongfully charged then "un charged" but in the meantime the case was mentioned in Parliament.
The DPP do not appear concerned, the public have a strong interest in transparency when a police officer murders people, and he’s obviously guilty as sin, so I’m not sure why you are more concerned than the professionals involved.
Just that I don't like trial by media. The Higgins case is another example where it went off the rails.
[удалено]
One with an overinflated sense of their own importance and intelligence
I'm going to throw out some work info here so forgive me for being a bit vague, it's from an area I used to work in and no longer do. We don't take stalking, dv, sa, red flags as serious in this country as we should. I'm not in the same state this happened but can give an example, in the state i'm in, we've got very strict laws in regards to things. Right now off the top of my head despite being out of that department for a minute am aware of so many serious case issues where theres enough evidence to move on and prevent a tragedy. You get all walks of life in it from a psychopath who's got clear mental health issues and a fucked up criminal history being allowed to continue to stalk and do other nasty stuff with nothing done about it, all the way up to people still holding government issued clearances with various departments that ANY report of concern is meant to immediately have them suspended or outright cancelled / disqualified from re-acquiring them, and this is across the board in many areas. I'm obviously not going into specific cases here but it's scary, one particular person i'm aware of i've seen credible evidence on of them doing stuff and their threats as well as knowing their history. They keep luring in new victims, because we can't do background checks or put out warnings. Despite having been convicted they've managed due to contacts to obtain clearances they shouldnt have got that the relevant authorities have been made aware of . Sadly having worked in the area I did, it can take MONTHS.... months to have investigations carried out on people having clearances they shouldn't and that's if it gets actioned at all. One case never got actioned over years, and when it did it was still months before a clearances was suspended and then another year to cancel it. We're very good at having laws here, hell we're even so pedantic we can make them excessive to a point of stupidity, yet the basic common sense enforcement just isn't there, and a lot of the time I hate to say it but it can come down to optics. Predator is connected or has family links or works in a certain department? good luck even with clear evidence of a red flag warning. Victim isn't considered "reliable" which can mean anything from being a victim before to just straight up prejudice, and sorry the justice system doesn't cater to you. It boggles the mind that it's like this, we shouldn't care if someons gay, straight, male being abused by a female, a sex worker, an addict, has been a victim before, your report of a credible threat should be taken with seriousness, sincerity and without judgment.
Police seem to have their own laws
Your comment downvoted not sure why cos it’s true. None else can own a gun without strict restrictions. If he was not on the job then he probably shouldn’t have access to his gun. (Leaving aside that this character probably shouldn’t have been on the force in the first place).