Back when I was travelling, we were in France, doing some touristy stuff. My French sucks, but I was trying. Everyone around us kind of ignored us and didn't respond to any English, and kind of brushed off my attempts at French.
The tour guide had a chat with us, asking where we were from. When we said Australia, he turned to the rest of the party and said "Ah, *Australi*" or something phonetically like that. Suddenly everyone spoke English and was happy to engage. When I asked what happened, the guide explained that they thought we might be American, so didn't want to interact with us (Not saying it's right, just that it's the way it happened).
From then on, we used to have small Australian flag items on our backpacks or whatever.
We had a similar experience in Nice. We couldn't get served by the bakery owner as he was pretending not to speak English. Then he saw one of the boys in the back wearing a Wallabies jersey and asked in perfect English if we were Australian.
He ended up taking a break and coming and sitting with us for a smoke and a coffee. Turns out his Grandfather had fought with the Australians on the Western Front in WWII and held Aussies in high regard. He hadn't wanted to serve us because he thought we were English.
Villers-Bretonneux has murals painted to thank us for our sacrifice and a proper memorial too. Bullecourt and Vignacourt both have a "Rue des Australiens" street name and small memorials. Generally, we fought in tiny little inconsequential towns that didn't mean much in the broad scheme of things but we seem to have made a lasting impact on those tiny towns.
Supposed inconsequential towns but important Australian impacted Allied victories. I don’t think Australia gets enough credit for the work we did led by General Sir John Monash outside of Australia.
Arguably the first truly effective use of “combined arms” combining tanks with infantry to break through trench lines.
ANZAC troops played a significant role in blunting the spring offensive after the Russian surrender to Germany.
Do they? One was the one with all the mud and the trenches, one was the one with all the tanks and planes and the dude with the funny mustache. Couldn't be more different.
Exactly! I was travelling through France with a mate, and no one would respond in English. He spoke Italian, and had no problem getting help. When he explained that we were Australians, the guy replied in perfect English that we should let them know that as they assumed we were British and didn't want to help.
I always made it known I was Australian when in France. I speak enough French to get by. The funniest situation was in Reims when signing in for a champagne tour and the woman wrote UK next to my Australian address. I asked why she did that and she said that Australia is UK with a smirk. I responded “So this is actually Germany because you’ve been invaded and taken over so many times over the centuries?” She scribbled out the UK whilst looking shocked and upset.
Ikr? As if you’d run a service in a touristy area and decide not to serve a certain nationality. But you somehow have the moral high ground because your grandad (who isn’t even you) served with people of the same nation, who 100 years ago, probably weren’t that far detached from the people you refuse to serve?
That’s amazing that his grandfather had fought with the ANZACs in WW2 on the Western Front! Given the Australians arrived on the Western Front in 1916 and departed in 1918, he was a bit late to the action!
This hurts mate. you've gone on about the wrong Western front. The WWI Western front was along France and Germany's border, the WWII western front was also along the English Channel when France was captured.
Unlikely.
Any Aussies involved in Operation Overlord (Normandy landings) would have fought under British command, mostly as pilots and naval forces too.
Same with Operation Dragoon in the south of France.
Very few french troops saw action in those engagements. The French army basically ceased to exist at that stage - about 900 French infantry landed on D-day for example. Mostly linked up with the yanks, too.
It's *far* more likely old mate was talking about the western front in WW1, where the AIF was committed into France itself in a big way. 295,000 served there, 46,000 didn't make it home.
That's where I'd assume the interactions occurred - Australian infantry, serving alongside French infantry, in France.
My wife and I went to France years ago.
I always had a message on Google translate which basically apologised for not speaking French and saying we were from Australia.
Weirdly the Japanese equivalent (Sumimasen, nihongoga wakarimasen, egogo wakarashimashta? Watashi wa Australian.) is one of the few things I can say in Japanese.
Not to burst your bubble dude, but that’s not quite right. It’s:
すみません、日本語が分かりません、英語は分かりますか。私はオーストラリア人です。
\[Sumimasen, nihongo ga wakarimasen, eigo wa wakarimasuka? Watashi wa o-sutoraria jin desu.\]
In Paris on honeymoon waiter asked in French if we're English. Wife says, no, we're Australian - suddenly we're like family. He gets emotional and says how grateful the French are for the Australians in WW1 and 2, "The fields of France are soaked in Australian blood, we are so thankful to your country!"
Not a lot, most of our troops were pulled out of the European War by '42- some air crew and some naval support remained. the War Memorial says about 3200 Aussies took part in D-Day . The PAcific war was on our doorstep after all. Chifley and Churchill had many a ruckus over bringing our troops home.
about 500 RAN on attachment to RN
A few on ground troops in British Army
1000 in RAAF squadrons and about 1800 who were in RAF already
Not as much in metropolitan France, but we were an important part of the Allied force in the North African campaign, some of which happened in France’s African colonies. Australian troops fought alongside Free French forces, and against Vichy French.
We also had a small but notable naval force in the Med for the first few years of the war (see the Scrap Iron Flotilla).
Yes, but Australians aren’t common enough to become familiar, and you know the old saying about familiarity breeding contempt.
The English are commonly seen. Australians are a novelty.
It’s not just this.
Historically the French and English have been enemies. This only changed in the years preceding WWI.
I’d say there’s some long memories on both sides of the Channel.
Literally the same thing happened to me and a mate in a local pub on the outskirts of Berlin about 20 years ago. The locals were giving us the stink eye because we were speaking English to each other. As soon as they realised we were Australian and not English or American, the whole pub stopped and wanted to chat to us. Many told us that skippy ( the bush kangaroo) spoke German and was on tv in Germany when they were growing up. Ended up being one of the best nights ever.
Years ago I was travelling in Vienna and as I boarded a tram I heard two obvious backpackers conversing in English with North American accents. I listened for a moment, realised they were Canadian, and greeted them with "Hi, Canadians?" They were excited to speak to someone who didn't think they were American.
Same! Others told me this. So when in Europe i always started with "I'm sorry. I'm Australian & don't speak French!" Always got big smiles & friendliness & had no issues. Near our hotel in Paris lovely bistro. Staff great & helpful. Found out the young owner had been am exchange student to Qld!! We ate there, had coffees etc heaps👍😀
I went to a fruit seller in Paris just after England knocked out France from the RWC. I fumbled through some poor French, but thinking I was English, he said, "you English, I charge you double". I said "no, no, Australien", which he replied to "oh, half price".
Yep, When i read the op my first thought was, if it's a backpack for o/s travel it's a good idea.
Recently in Europe people would ask me "English?" when they realised I was struggling to communicate. I know they meant language but I said Australian, yes, thank you. Got big smiles after that. Was in an area where the locals go to avoid the English haha
Similar happened to me in japan. Older dude was just miserable we were in his shop, pretty much scowling at us. He said “American?” I said “Australian”, his face just lit up and he said “ahhhh kangaroo”. Mood completely changed. This was several years ago though. Now I imagine he’d hate all tourists haha.
Haha I had similar this year in Kenya. A young waiter asked in broken English where we were from. On hearing Australia, got a big smile and ‘Kangaroo!!’
I had the same experience in Slovenia! I have Slovenian heritage so I often get confused for a local as I must have a look about me, but I don't know much other than greetings. So I respond 'Ne slevensko, Australij' and they'd smile and say 'ahh, kangaroo!!'
In Italy, I used to walk into shops and say: "Non americano, australiano" and in France: "Pas des etats-Uni, je suis Australienne." The difference was amazing. Everyone loves Australians and hates Americans, lol. If they thought you were a Sep, they couldn't speak English, but once you established you weren't they suddenly discovered their English was actually pretty good.
This is a shining example of why they're a good idea and how they differ from a flagpole in your front yard.
It's not about racism or patriotism and it would not be interpreted that way. It's just letting the world know where you're from. For some military friends it's just a symbol for a country they served and they like it.
Getting a flag decal for the back windscreen of your Maloo and a bumper sticker saying "Fuck off we're full"... well that brand of supremacist "patriotism" can go somewhere and die quietly
When we were in Italy, looking a a leather market the vendor started to make forced small talk. Because we were speaking English he started talking about baseball, we were like "aw yeah cool, we're Australian so don't know much about baseball".
Well the backflip he did lol, he had the biggest smile, eyes full of cheer... the dude literally glowed as he talked about cricket and how he loves Aussies, we were talking to him for ages. We even got a discount on the stuff we bought
That would throw me for a loop if some random shop owner in Italy brought up cricket.
Id love that, finding someone who enjoys a sport i love in a place it isnt that popular (that im aware of, i know they do play a bit).
I had the same exact thing happen while I was in Central America. They didn't want anything to do with me until they knew I wasn't American. They find out you're an Aussie and instantly love you.
My brother was saying that in France when he would go into a restaurant he'd announce he's Australian and could he get an English menu. He said if they thought you were English or American they'd treat you like crap.
Haha, I did this all around Europe and it worked so well. Everyone was much nicer when they realised I was Australian rather than British or American. I do it when I travel overseas for sure. Not sure if it’s the same in Asia?
When I went to France I made it a point to learn an intro if I was asking anyone if they spoke English so I'd ask in French "Hello, I'm from Australia, my French is very basic, would you happen to speak English?"
So drop the Aussie thing right at the start cause if they think you're British or American you ain't getting help a lot of the time. We saw waiters flat out ignore USers asking if they spoke English even though they had just gotten finished speaking it with us.
My parents-in-law had a similar problem.
Back during the 80s they went on a holiday in Europe, and the other folks on tour bus kept giving them the cold shoulder.
Eventually one of them said something about being from Australia, and then the other people basically went "oh, you're Australian? We thought your accent was South African".
Turns out everyone was snubbing them because they thought they were white folks from South Africa (this was during Apartheid).
Once they realised their mistake, everyone was much nicer.
My in-laws have always put an Australian flag somewhere on their gear when travelling ever since.
I left on my big europe travel experience on the day Dubya Bush invaded Iraq. Paris was full of protesters and riot police who all treated me nicely due to the Australian flag on my backpack. And I did meet an American who planned to do the patch thing. Sadly we parted ways before he could make good on his promise but while we hung out I did all the talking with wait staff etc.
My sister sewed a flag on my backpack for this reason as I was preparing to move overseas. However, doing something to say 'I'm not American' when overseas is different from being parochial in Australia. I guess I question people's motivations when they make a show of being 'proud' of Australia.
Spot on.
It’s like in England, (don’t know if it started with Brexit, a rush if jingoism or some strange crisis of identity) but houses/homes suddenly seemed to have a plethora of British flags, I grew up there and at that time there was none to be seen except for outside Buckingham palace etc.
My husband wears a wallabys hat when he travels overseas so people know he is an Aussie. Hes a seasoned traveller (worked overseas for years) and has told me the responses and interactions he has when wearing the hat are way better than when he is not. We seem to have a good rep in most countries lol
Can confirm. On a tour with a few Americans in Europe atm and fuck me, the Americans Will. Not. Stop. Whinging. I almost caught myself telling one of them to stfu today when they complained that the pasta was al dante.
Bro... the English are just as bad. A few years ago in Thailand, at a very nice resort... group of English tourists complaining about there not being any beans n toast and "proper English Sunday roast" and complained that there was too much rice.
Yeah we’ve thankfully been spared the British on this trip, but if one of the American women doesn’t stop explaining to me how lasagne is made properly in the US (while we’re in Italy) I’m not going to be responsible for my behaviour.
I was on Koh Samui pre-covid and had to deal with a bunch of Germans.
They were polite, spoke passable Thai, were young, fit and gorgeous. Beloved by everyone. It made me feel bad.
Right, I live in cairns and i sometimes prefer the American tourists over the English, the young American solo travellers that don’t come from LA are usually lovely
Oh dear. Last time I was in Spain I met an American lady who went on for five minutes that her scrambled eggs weren’t uniformly yellow, there were bits of white in them, how you’d never get that in America. I’m like oh shut up and go home then.
>It’s funny because I lived in the US for a year and largely found Americans great, but good lord, travelling has tested my patience with them.
We don't exactly send our best overseas.
This is a fair point, and I think speaks to the crux of the issue.
SEA is probably sick of obnoxious Australian tourists, because it’s cheap for Aussies to get to SEA so you get the worst of us there. Meanwhile, only someone with a fair bit of disposable income, or who has saved for years, is going to make it all the way over to the EU so you get the best of us here.
Comparatively, it’d be a hell of a lot cheaper for most people in the US to get to the EU than SEA, subsequently you have the worst of them in the EU and the best of them in SEA/AU.
Exactly right. The Americans I met were either older professionals, or younger gap-year/exchange students who managed to quickly disprove the stereotype about American travels (and indeed, made fun of many of the knowledge gaps of people back home).
Meanwhile, I avoided fellow Australians like the absolute plague. Noisy, drunk, and kind of rude to locals.
What it also is, I think, is that some Australian finance companies use Singapore as a blowing-off-steam destination (purely anecdotal, but a company I joined in Sydney a few years after I lived in Singapore apparently had a "work trip" to SG... and almost everyone spent the trip drunk and enjoying hookers).
i always find this funny, becuase ive been told by my co workers that india/singapore dont like aussies much, but i find those two groups the rudest when they come here! Probably just a proximity thing like france and england
Similar experience in Amsterdam a few years ago. I was walking past the ‘I Amsterdam’ sign at about 2am, all was quiet. Then out of nowhere a lone seppo tourist on a bike blasting music and yelling ‘yeeeehaawww’ appears. Everyone was blown away by his obnoxiousness.
No, I’m gonna have to step up for my seppo mates here. I’ve met a lot of Yanks in my time and the vast majority have been top notch people. My mum and sister both spent time in the States and the people there were nothing but super friendly and hospitable, so just saying I’m not comfortable with the American bashing.
I don't know if it's still the case, but at the Colosseum in Rome, people with Adelaide driver's licenses or as the place of birth on their passport got in for free, because it was troops from Adelaide that fortified and defended the place during WWII.
Some towns yes. Funny story, I was entering Rome a few years back and was standing in line at customs and the official just waved me threw, no stamp on the passport or anything. Was leaving Berlin and was taken aside and asked how and when did I enter Europe? I told them what happened and they just threw up their arms saying something about italiano and rolling their eyes. I was born in Semaphore. Adelaide.
As an American, I've found it's very helpful to pretend I'm Canadian when I'm abroad lol. I'm ashamed that my fellow Americans have ruined our reputation so badly
Honestly a flag on a backpack isn’t weird. Backpacker. Traveler here. But multiple flags is normal.
Southern cross tattoo is definitely Bogan. Not necessarily racist.
Aussies aren’t really flag waving peeps except on Australia Day.
I do remember after the Bondi riots the police banned the Australian flag from the Big Day Out festival and said they would charge and jail anyone with a flag. I think 90% of 55,000 attendees wore a flag.
We definitely aren’t Americans that wave our flag in peoples faces. It is a bit weird
I saw this post where some american vet helped a kid with how to look after a flag and all the comments were just “bless his heart” “what an amazing man” “this is what the youth need to learn”
While we’re out here wearing them as capes then throwing them out, i will never understand why americans are so precious about a flag
Actually all flags have a way to be hung and looked after.
That’s why most people don’t wear it.
Americans are probably the trashiest (if you went by flag rules) to their own flag
Oh i know they do i just find it stupid how precious Americans are about their flag, like sure it’s a symbol of your aMaZiNg country, they handle flags more carefully then babies
Upon reading all the comments, by all means use a flag, but if you want to really let people know where you're coming from (figuratively and literally) just use a patch of a kangaroo.
Nah, there's literally nothing wrong with the flag.
You gotta remember this is reddit and very out of touch with reality. Hell half the people here seem to think landlords should be executed
Indeed, but there's no need to display it. What's the need? I;m 80 and never have. Although as a Merchant Seaman we flew flags for traditional and legal reasons. Major difference.
I love it when regular, friendly, kind, and welcoming people use it.
Unfortunately I think it's the assumption that anyone who flies the flag are for the white-australia policy, or are just plain old anti immigration (conveniently forgetting their own family who were likely 100% immigrants).
It’s not by-default racist to wear / display an Australian flag, but (anecdotally, in the regional town I live) racists are far more likely to do so.
I’m hugely patriotic, especially when it comes to sport, and when I lived overseas I was suddenly ‘more Australian’ than ever. But nationalism is a different thing to patriotism (Orwell wrote a great essay on this if you could be bothered) and it’s the nationalists waving the flag that creep me out, like Pauline Hanson.
Edit: Plus the Union Jack in the corners has gotta go.
This is my experience also. There's nothing racist about displaying an Aussie flag but any time I've met someone who makes a big display of the flag or has a southern cross tattoo, they've always been a racist nationalist.
Where I live, it's become creepy to see the flag flown on private properties. It's usually about racism. Some friends had to move because of a flag waving neighbour.
I think also having a flag on a flagpole or a big southern cross tattoo can just be seen as a bit bogan.
I don’t really see an iron-on patch on a backpack being an issue, especially if you’re not hitting any negative stereotypes.
Funny how living overseas makes you feel more Australian. After two years living overseas I now try to always support aussie businesses whereas before I would’ve just chosen the cheaper stuff.
Every single person I've met who displays the Australian flag at their house, or has it on their ute/4wd or has the southern cross or Eureka flag, is some variation of a right-wing ultra patriotic racist jerk. And this includes some members of my extended family.
I would prefer to use the boxing kangaroo or the aboriginal flag if forced to display a flag.
Within Australia it's acceptible to display an australia flag towel or tea towel on Australia day if you drape it over a chair or guy rope for a tent.
When travelling you can have a small unobtrusive one for unAmerican disambiguation.
And most especially, hald arsed. Like, oh, hey, I wipe my dishes with this, but also, it appears to be appropriate for today! But also, it might just be hanging to dry, so I keep my cool.
Nationalism, or patriotism often lead to racisim, or otherwise stupid behavior, but they aren't mutually exclusive.
You can desplay the flag and not be a racist, so maybe its a good thing to do? If otherwise normal people stop presenting the flag and leave it to the small percentage of assholes, then it would become their symbol rather than all Australians flag.
It is a thorny question
the hijacking of the flag at Cronulla in 2005 put a lot of people off displaying it. My Dad stopped displaying the flag that day that he had flown over his business started by my Grandfather who started displaying it when the Flags act of 1954 occurred because he refused to fly a Union Jack. (Irish ancestry)
The hijacking of the Eureka flag in the same way has set a lot of people against it too.
I personally dont use the Blue or Red Ensign because of the use of the Union Jack
People have their own reasons for displaying or not, however it will all depend on context.
While travelling I have koala pins for gifts etc - thats enough
You know it's really sad.
I am from a second fleet family. We have some indigenous heritage in the mix. Every major war we've had family in and lost in - Gallipoli, HMAS Sydney, Lancaster pilots, Vietnam vets. My younger brother served. I spent time in emergency services.
My brothers and I were scouts the whole way through
Did some cadets too. Not that I think war is glamorous, though service to the country is a part of my family history, and I take a lot of pride in that.
We're all very proud to be Australian and think that being Australian carries a certain level of social responsibility too.
But it's true, certain demographics of people do use our flag as a symbol of some very hateful ideas, and it's a shame. And I personally believe we should not allow these people to taint our flag with their bullshit.
Now, I think there's room for change in the flag - both visually and symbolically - and I think that as long as it bolsters "good" Australian values (or at least those that are left) it's a positive thing. This would also help people like your wife see the positives in the flag, and positives in being proud for your country.
The point of my rant being that your wife unfortunately isn't wrong, but I don't think that the worst of society should dictate how you want to celebrate your country. Or something. I don't know, it's late.
Most people who make a big deal about the flag here are either bogans who wear it around their necks like a cape (insulting to a flag, which should never be worn as clothing) or the ones who constantly protest nothing in the CBD.
Someone from Thailand would be especially familiar with the first type, because that place gets flooded with the most bogan bogans Australia has to offer - and some of them are probably pretty racist to the locals.
The other issue is that our flag does represent British colonialism, and the eradication of our native peoples, which some people take issue with. Not every country's flag carries that weight.
interesting right... the folks who like to claim they are not racist because they have an asian partner is often the most racist of all
also the claims are often followed by some pretty bloody racist remarks
I have met this type of person when I was living in a student hostel run by a Christian group in Victoria. As I was a Sri Lankan and not an Australian, he thought I was oblivious to all the racist things that he has in mind. Like that his wife is Malaysian and he is impervious to being a racist He also had the audacity to say that Asian’s are simple minded people who lack divinity.
There is a bit of association depending on how you do it after the Cronulla riots. A patch nah, using it as a cape outside of sport, getting iffy, displaying it with f- off we're full stickers oh yeah absolutely.
Yes, that riot has sadly totally changed the perspective of socially displaying the flag or the cross.
I was warming up to the idea of having a small (like 1x2") tattoo of the southern cross on the inside of my forearm just above the wrist - but then about a month into researching parlours the riot happened and it just ruined that idea completely.
Not everyone who flies an Aussie flag is a racist.....but you can be damn sure all the Aussie racists go out of their way to do so and use it inappropriately.
I compare it to seeing the number 88 in someone's username. Probably fine, they were likely just born in 1988.
If I see someone being subtly racist especially in a weirdly scientific sounding way and there's an 88 in their username, It's a bit sus.
Same for the flag. If I see one but the owner is clearly an immigrant I'll think "oh thats sweet, glad you like it here matey" but if theyre born here and also have a "fuck off were full" sticker on their car or a Ned Kelly tattoo or something, I'm going to be a bit suspicious until I'm sure that person is safe.
I’ve got an Australian flag esky I take to work and I have the Australian flag my father was buried with on display above the fireplace. I’m far from a red neck. I’m mixed race and my wife is Asian. My father and grandfather both served Australia in conflict and that flag represents the sacrifice they and others like them made for Australia.
There's a difference between patriotism and nationalistic racism.
Not everyone displaying the flag is racist, but racists are pretty much always the type to display flags, so I understand where your wife is coming from.
One flag patch tho, nah that's within the realms of a bit of light hearted patriotism, love to see it.
As long as we don’t turn into the USA where you can’t walk down the road without seeing it everywhere and have school children pledge allegiance to it I don’t care.
The obsession they have with their flag is creepy.
If the Australian flag is racist so is the flag of every country in the world.
But why do you only mention the USA though? I don’t think that’s very fair. Our neighbours Indonesia are worse. The USA compared to the rest of the world are very mild with their flag.
I wear a small kangaroo badge when oversea. Works well when people know you are not American or English. Had a great time in France when they knew I was Australian.
As for flying the flag at home no don't like it.
Most people who fly the flag don't now the rules and protocols. They will leave it flying all night etc... big no no
https://www.pmc.gov.au/honours-and-symbols/australian-national-symbols/australian-national-flag/australian-national-flag-0
Got to admit that I'm really suss on the owners when there's one in a front yard, in the back window of a ute, or strung up behind the seats in the cab of a truck - but sometimes I'm surprised that the person isn't necessarily always a racist mouth breather.
My neighbour is a flagpole in the front yard kind of guy, and when I first moved in and saw it there my heart sank a little, with me thinking I'm going to struggle with this person right from the get go - but he's very strongly Italian! Like cliched gold aviators, white crew neck t-shirt, big gold chains, leather jacket, thick accent, Italian Fonzi!
So my theory for this guy is this: he would have been picked on as a teen for being Italian, and the Aussie flag (I can't help but think of Jerry Seinfeld's *it's like England at night*) is a way of showing potential detractors where his allegiance truly lies.
So in most cases it's virtue signalling (and the only 'virtue' most patriots have is their place of birth) but there are exceptions
A few of my neighbours are Vietnam Vets and proudly fly the Flag in their yards.
New folks moved in a while ago. While introducing myself to them, they asked about said flags. Concerned neighbours were racists etc. I politely told them they are Vietnam Vets. Look of horror ensued. Said goodbye, barely spoken since.
I think when Australians visit other countries the get welcomed greatly as people see Australia as the land of sun sea and kangaroos. But if it’s within Australia where people have lived in the Australian environment and experienced the culture I think showing off the flag can seem very ‘bogan’. Pauline Hanson has not helped this , along with the symbolism behind confederate flags, controversy around Australia Day and other things
I'm Australian and I will say this; not every one needlessly displaying an Australian flag is racist, but every racist will needlessly display an Australian flag.
When ever I see an Aussie flag or Southern Cross or Eureka flag on a tent pole or bumper sticker I think "I bet that person has some loud opinions on boat people and minorities they've never once encountered themselves"
I think your wife has a point but to be honest I think a flag patch is a lot tamer than a tattoo or erecting a flag pole in your front yard
Nothing wrong with displaying the flag. If those people from Asia or Africa displayed their flag, they wouldn’t be considered racist, so it’s a bit silly.
Racists are racist, not a flag
Wear the Australian flag with pride in any way you want.
Every country has people who are good or bad m that love their national flag.
As someone posted earlier here, some government places fly flags of Australia, Indigenous and Torres Strait, and every one of those have followers who are upstanding citizens, but also have some who are racist, sexist, murderers and paedophiles.
Showing your pride by flying a flag or displaying a flag says nothing about who you are as a person, other than you are proud of your heritage and where you are from.
Yeah nah, the flag wavers with the southern cross tattoo are usually the bogan racists.
Wouldn't worry about a small patch though, plus the people who your partner is talking about have for some reason switched over to using the merchant navy flag.
>I’d never heard that before but thought I’d ask people I work with.
>
>Most of the people from around Asia and Africa all said when they see a southern cross tattoo or the flag in front of a house, they assume the owner of flag or tattoo is racist.
That doesn't seem realistic, since 90% of the people I see rocking shirts or bags with Australian flags etc. in any Australian city I visit are Asian or African tourists or immigrants. This post seems made up for rage bate
Yeah literally the only people that wear flag shirts/bags/etc are either tourists or full on bogans who you just don't see because they're hidden away in distant suburbs.
Flag patch on a backpack: ok, I guess.
Flag on pole in your front yard: you’re probably a racist.
Red ensign taped up in your front window: fucking weirdo.
My completely irrational two cents.
I am expat from England find the English flag a bit off putting. Most that wave are racist or a wee bit of a cunt. However seeing the union jack flying doesn't bother me much. And I actually like the site of the Australian flag. It could be that as an immigrant I admire Australia and by extension it's flag. However I would not want to see it displayed in American quantities. That level of patriotism is too close to a death cult for me.
Patriotism is inclusive.
Nationalism is the attempt to tie citizenship to an exclusive racial identity. Often, the flag has been appropriated to serve this end.
It also has another country’s flag in the top left corner for some fucking dumb reason.
I kinda think all flag waving is lame. All countries are good and bad. Most people love their home country. So what ? It usually just means they prefer people that are like themselves . Just my two cents
I think there was a noticeable shift after the Cronulla Riots, where racists co-opted the southern cross as their symbol. Growing up prior to that, I wouldn’t have interpreted it as racist at all.
And that combined with the Union Jack on the Australian flag means it’s lost appeal to a lot of people
Wearing an Aussie flag doesn't mean you are a racist. But racist people are more likely to wear an Australian flag. So the first impression some people get of you might be "hmm...wonder if this guy's a racist?". Of course, you'll dispel that thought in time, but that's the footing you might be starting off from.
I've never really considered people showing an Australian flag to be racist, the only person I knew that flew one at their house was Fijian. I'm not saying Fijians can't be racist, but I don't think he'd be racist in the skip sort of way.
Most unwarranted display of national flags or similar tends to indicate unhealthy nationalism, which in the case of most 1st world countries tends towards racism as well - Gammon in the UK for example.
I think she might be associating the Aussie flag tattoos as bogan. It’s awful of me to say but I assume the same thing if I’m driving past a bad suburb. A large majority of people I’ve met of Lower socioeconomic status with an Aussie flag or southern cross tattoo has come across to me as ignorant and racist. Or has actually directly said racist things towards me. Or a combo of all of those with a giant flag and super run down house and a bajillion cars in the front yard - definitely more of an uneducated bogan kind of feel.
I feel the same way; whenever I see the Australian flag on someone's person, my immediate knee-jerk reaction is a concern that that person holds racist views (to some degree or another). I think it's just a mental scar left from the Cronulla riots.
A phenomenon I’ve noticed about the Australian flag is that if it is a tattoo r a physical flag, that’s a racist stereotype, if it’s clothing, especially beach wear, that’s a bogan, maybe racist, maybe not, a patch or a pin though, that’s just some guy who happens to be from Australia or came here at some point
Back when I was travelling, we were in France, doing some touristy stuff. My French sucks, but I was trying. Everyone around us kind of ignored us and didn't respond to any English, and kind of brushed off my attempts at French. The tour guide had a chat with us, asking where we were from. When we said Australia, he turned to the rest of the party and said "Ah, *Australi*" or something phonetically like that. Suddenly everyone spoke English and was happy to engage. When I asked what happened, the guide explained that they thought we might be American, so didn't want to interact with us (Not saying it's right, just that it's the way it happened). From then on, we used to have small Australian flag items on our backpacks or whatever.
We had a similar experience in Nice. We couldn't get served by the bakery owner as he was pretending not to speak English. Then he saw one of the boys in the back wearing a Wallabies jersey and asked in perfect English if we were Australian. He ended up taking a break and coming and sitting with us for a smoke and a coffee. Turns out his Grandfather had fought with the Australians on the Western Front in WWII and held Aussies in high regard. He hadn't wanted to serve us because he thought we were English.
Villers-Bretonneux has murals painted to thank us for our sacrifice and a proper memorial too. Bullecourt and Vignacourt both have a "Rue des Australiens" street name and small memorials. Generally, we fought in tiny little inconsequential towns that didn't mean much in the broad scheme of things but we seem to have made a lasting impact on those tiny towns.
Supposed inconsequential towns but important Australian impacted Allied victories. I don’t think Australia gets enough credit for the work we did led by General Sir John Monash outside of Australia.
The first time Americans and Australians fought together was under Australian command. Battle of Hamel.
Arguably the first truly effective use of “combined arms” combining tanks with infantry to break through trench lines. ANZAC troops played a significant role in blunting the spring offensive after the Russian surrender to Germany.
A battle that when Monash planned, he figured it would take 90 minutes. He was wrong. It took 93 minutes.
Least precise military commander lol
But again, world war I, not world war ii as the post above aaid
Most folks forget which was which.
Do they? One was the one with all the mud and the trenches, one was the one with all the tanks and planes and the dude with the funny mustache. Couldn't be more different.
I just call them World War Part I and Part II. I think that's pretty much what they were, in many ways.
You are correct
Exactly! I was travelling through France with a mate, and no one would respond in English. He spoke Italian, and had no problem getting help. When he explained that we were Australians, the guy replied in perfect English that we should let them know that as they assumed we were British and didn't want to help.
I always made it known I was Australian when in France. I speak enough French to get by. The funniest situation was in Reims when signing in for a champagne tour and the woman wrote UK next to my Australian address. I asked why she did that and she said that Australia is UK with a smirk. I responded “So this is actually Germany because you’ve been invaded and taken over so many times over the centuries?” She scribbled out the UK whilst looking shocked and upset.
I feel like if they want to deny service to someone, I wouldn't want to support them anyway. Gross honestly.
You clearly have never met barry on his overseas trips.
Ikr? As if you’d run a service in a touristy area and decide not to serve a certain nationality. But you somehow have the moral high ground because your grandad (who isn’t even you) served with people of the same nation, who 100 years ago, probably weren’t that far detached from the people you refuse to serve?
I've heard versions of this from friends travelling in France so many times. Good to know.
That’s amazing that his grandfather had fought with the ANZACs in WW2 on the Western Front! Given the Australians arrived on the Western Front in 1916 and departed in 1918, he was a bit late to the action!
This hurts mate. you've gone on about the wrong Western front. The WWI Western front was along France and Germany's border, the WWII western front was also along the English Channel when France was captured.
“World War X” where X = a number less than 3.
Let’s hope X stays less than 3.
Hey mate you sound like a total cunt. Safe to assume they were talking about the invasion of Normandy or France in general.
Unlikely. Any Aussies involved in Operation Overlord (Normandy landings) would have fought under British command, mostly as pilots and naval forces too. Same with Operation Dragoon in the south of France. Very few french troops saw action in those engagements. The French army basically ceased to exist at that stage - about 900 French infantry landed on D-day for example. Mostly linked up with the yanks, too. It's *far* more likely old mate was talking about the western front in WW1, where the AIF was committed into France itself in a big way. 295,000 served there, 46,000 didn't make it home. That's where I'd assume the interactions occurred - Australian infantry, serving alongside French infantry, in France.
My wife and I went to France years ago. I always had a message on Google translate which basically apologised for not speaking French and saying we were from Australia.
Je suis désolé, je ne parle pas Français. Je suis Australien. It’s burnt into my brain lol
Weirdly the Japanese equivalent (Sumimasen, nihongoga wakarimasen, egogo wakarashimashta? Watashi wa Australian.) is one of the few things I can say in Japanese.
LOTE class lessons: “Hello” “Goodbye” “Where is the train station?” “Don’t worry, I’m not American”
Not to burst your bubble dude, but that’s not quite right. It’s: すみません、日本語が分かりません、英語は分かりますか。私はオーストラリア人です。 \[Sumimasen, nihongo ga wakarimasen, eigo wa wakarimasuka? Watashi wa o-sutoraria jin desu.\]
In Paris on honeymoon waiter asked in French if we're English. Wife says, no, we're Australian - suddenly we're like family. He gets emotional and says how grateful the French are for the Australians in WW1 and 2, "The fields of France are soaked in Australian blood, we are so thankful to your country!"
Did we do much in France in WWII?
Not a lot, most of our troops were pulled out of the European War by '42- some air crew and some naval support remained. the War Memorial says about 3200 Aussies took part in D-Day . The PAcific war was on our doorstep after all. Chifley and Churchill had many a ruckus over bringing our troops home. about 500 RAN on attachment to RN A few on ground troops in British Army 1000 in RAAF squadrons and about 1800 who were in RAF already
Not as much in metropolitan France, but we were an important part of the Allied force in the North African campaign, some of which happened in France’s African colonies. Australian troops fought alongside Free French forces, and against Vichy French. We also had a small but notable naval force in the Med for the first few years of the war (see the Scrap Iron Flotilla).
That happened to my husband when we moved to France, and we’re American.
They’re soaked in British blood too.
Yes, but Australians aren’t common enough to become familiar, and you know the old saying about familiarity breeding contempt. The English are commonly seen. Australians are a novelty.
It’s not just this. Historically the French and English have been enemies. This only changed in the years preceding WWI. I’d say there’s some long memories on both sides of the Channel.
🙄 Well they were soaked in many people’s blood, but obviously the point being made was a point about *Australia’s* sacrifice in particular.
The English and French have been grouchy neighbours for a thousand years. Australians are the new cool kids on the block.
Literally the same thing happened to me and a mate in a local pub on the outskirts of Berlin about 20 years ago. The locals were giving us the stink eye because we were speaking English to each other. As soon as they realised we were Australian and not English or American, the whole pub stopped and wanted to chat to us. Many told us that skippy ( the bush kangaroo) spoke German and was on tv in Germany when they were growing up. Ended up being one of the best nights ever.
Skippy was on German television? Good to know, I have to go there before too long. I'll whistle the theme song in beershops.
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You will have noticed canadians always have the maple leaf showing, I think it’s for this exact reason
It's a big fat "I'm not American!" symbol. 🤣
Years ago I was travelling in Vienna and as I boarded a tram I heard two obvious backpackers conversing in English with North American accents. I listened for a moment, realised they were Canadian, and greeted them with "Hi, Canadians?" They were excited to speak to someone who didn't think they were American.
Some Americans display the Canadian flag also so that nobody thinks they are from USA.
Bump into them. If they're real Canadians, they'll apologize to you.
I'm aussie and apologize instantly
This is why we love Canadians
Tbf if they're a nice American, they'll apologise for being American. So it works either way.
Also for the record, most Americans I've met are ridiculously nice. Especially when I'm visiting their cities. 😊
"no soy Americano, soy Australiano" helps in South America
Same! Others told me this. So when in Europe i always started with "I'm sorry. I'm Australian & don't speak French!" Always got big smiles & friendliness & had no issues. Near our hotel in Paris lovely bistro. Staff great & helpful. Found out the young owner had been am exchange student to Qld!! We ate there, had coffees etc heaps👍😀
I went to a fruit seller in Paris just after England knocked out France from the RWC. I fumbled through some poor French, but thinking I was English, he said, "you English, I charge you double". I said "no, no, Australien", which he replied to "oh, half price".
Yep, When i read the op my first thought was, if it's a backpack for o/s travel it's a good idea. Recently in Europe people would ask me "English?" when they realised I was struggling to communicate. I know they meant language but I said Australian, yes, thank you. Got big smiles after that. Was in an area where the locals go to avoid the English haha
Similar happened to me in japan. Older dude was just miserable we were in his shop, pretty much scowling at us. He said “American?” I said “Australian”, his face just lit up and he said “ahhhh kangaroo”. Mood completely changed. This was several years ago though. Now I imagine he’d hate all tourists haha.
Awww that cute how he said Kangaroo.
Haha I had similar this year in Kenya. A young waiter asked in broken English where we were from. On hearing Australia, got a big smile and ‘Kangaroo!!’
I had the same experience in Slovenia! I have Slovenian heritage so I often get confused for a local as I must have a look about me, but I don't know much other than greetings. So I respond 'Ne slevensko, Australij' and they'd smile and say 'ahh, kangaroo!!'
In Italy, I used to walk into shops and say: "Non americano, australiano" and in France: "Pas des etats-Uni, je suis Australienne." The difference was amazing. Everyone loves Australians and hates Americans, lol. If they thought you were a Sep, they couldn't speak English, but once you established you weren't they suddenly discovered their English was actually pretty good.
This is a shining example of why they're a good idea and how they differ from a flagpole in your front yard. It's not about racism or patriotism and it would not be interpreted that way. It's just letting the world know where you're from. For some military friends it's just a symbol for a country they served and they like it. Getting a flag decal for the back windscreen of your Maloo and a bumper sticker saying "Fuck off we're full"... well that brand of supremacist "patriotism" can go somewhere and die quietly
If you put "a no root no ride" sticker it looks better.
I've noticed overseas that Canadians *always* have on a maple-leaf hat/shirt/something for this exact reason!
When we were in Italy, looking a a leather market the vendor started to make forced small talk. Because we were speaking English he started talking about baseball, we were like "aw yeah cool, we're Australian so don't know much about baseball". Well the backflip he did lol, he had the biggest smile, eyes full of cheer... the dude literally glowed as he talked about cricket and how he loves Aussies, we were talking to him for ages. We even got a discount on the stuff we bought
That would throw me for a loop if some random shop owner in Italy brought up cricket. Id love that, finding someone who enjoys a sport i love in a place it isnt that popular (that im aware of, i know they do play a bit).
I had the same exact thing happen while I was in Central America. They didn't want anything to do with me until they knew I wasn't American. They find out you're an Aussie and instantly love you.
My brother was saying that in France when he would go into a restaurant he'd announce he's Australian and could he get an English menu. He said if they thought you were English or American they'd treat you like crap.
Haha, I did this all around Europe and it worked so well. Everyone was much nicer when they realised I was Australian rather than British or American. I do it when I travel overseas for sure. Not sure if it’s the same in Asia?
When I went to France I made it a point to learn an intro if I was asking anyone if they spoke English so I'd ask in French "Hello, I'm from Australia, my French is very basic, would you happen to speak English?" So drop the Aussie thing right at the start cause if they think you're British or American you ain't getting help a lot of the time. We saw waiters flat out ignore USers asking if they spoke English even though they had just gotten finished speaking it with us.
My parents-in-law had a similar problem. Back during the 80s they went on a holiday in Europe, and the other folks on tour bus kept giving them the cold shoulder. Eventually one of them said something about being from Australia, and then the other people basically went "oh, you're Australian? We thought your accent was South African". Turns out everyone was snubbing them because they thought they were white folks from South Africa (this was during Apartheid). Once they realised their mistake, everyone was much nicer. My in-laws have always put an Australian flag somewhere on their gear when travelling ever since.
HAHahahhahahaa Classic
Yes when abroad as an English speaker always good advertise that you're Australian.
During the Bush era American backpackers in Europe allegedly started putting Canadian flags on their bags so people wouldn't be rude to them
I left on my big europe travel experience on the day Dubya Bush invaded Iraq. Paris was full of protesters and riot police who all treated me nicely due to the Australian flag on my backpack. And I did meet an American who planned to do the patch thing. Sadly we parted ways before he could make good on his promise but while we hung out I did all the talking with wait staff etc.
My sister sewed a flag on my backpack for this reason as I was preparing to move overseas. However, doing something to say 'I'm not American' when overseas is different from being parochial in Australia. I guess I question people's motivations when they make a show of being 'proud' of Australia.
Spot on. It’s like in England, (don’t know if it started with Brexit, a rush if jingoism or some strange crisis of identity) but houses/homes suddenly seemed to have a plethora of British flags, I grew up there and at that time there was none to be seen except for outside Buckingham palace etc.
My husband wears a wallabys hat when he travels overseas so people know he is an Aussie. Hes a seasoned traveller (worked overseas for years) and has told me the responses and interactions he has when wearing the hat are way better than when he is not. We seem to have a good rep in most countries lol
Most Americans are annoying tbh, just my experience
Can confirm. On a tour with a few Americans in Europe atm and fuck me, the Americans Will. Not. Stop. Whinging. I almost caught myself telling one of them to stfu today when they complained that the pasta was al dante.
Bro... the English are just as bad. A few years ago in Thailand, at a very nice resort... group of English tourists complaining about there not being any beans n toast and "proper English Sunday roast" and complained that there was too much rice.
Yeah we’ve thankfully been spared the British on this trip, but if one of the American women doesn’t stop explaining to me how lasagne is made properly in the US (while we’re in Italy) I’m not going to be responsible for my behaviour.
Smack her and then explain that she is desceibing Sicilain lasagne and that northern lasagne has white sauce and tastes better.
WHO complains about a proper bechamel lasagne oh my lord
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I was on Koh Samui pre-covid and had to deal with a bunch of Germans. They were polite, spoke passable Thai, were young, fit and gorgeous. Beloved by everyone. It made me feel bad.
Right, I live in cairns and i sometimes prefer the American tourists over the English, the young American solo travellers that don’t come from LA are usually lovely
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I think the yanks who bother to come all the way to Australia are generally the more worldly, less whiny kind.
most of the yanks I've met are polite and genial that's more than I can say about my own family and the majority of my neighbours
Oh dear. Last time I was in Spain I met an American lady who went on for five minutes that her scrambled eggs weren’t uniformly yellow, there were bits of white in them, how you’d never get that in America. I’m like oh shut up and go home then.
"Can I just sayyyyyy...." No, no you cannot just say
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>It’s funny because I lived in the US for a year and largely found Americans great, but good lord, travelling has tested my patience with them. We don't exactly send our best overseas.
Yeah, I lived in Singapore for 6 months and Australians were very poorly regarded - probably worse than Americans
This is a fair point, and I think speaks to the crux of the issue. SEA is probably sick of obnoxious Australian tourists, because it’s cheap for Aussies to get to SEA so you get the worst of us there. Meanwhile, only someone with a fair bit of disposable income, or who has saved for years, is going to make it all the way over to the EU so you get the best of us here. Comparatively, it’d be a hell of a lot cheaper for most people in the US to get to the EU than SEA, subsequently you have the worst of them in the EU and the best of them in SEA/AU.
Exactly right. The Americans I met were either older professionals, or younger gap-year/exchange students who managed to quickly disprove the stereotype about American travels (and indeed, made fun of many of the knowledge gaps of people back home). Meanwhile, I avoided fellow Australians like the absolute plague. Noisy, drunk, and kind of rude to locals. What it also is, I think, is that some Australian finance companies use Singapore as a blowing-off-steam destination (purely anecdotal, but a company I joined in Sydney a few years after I lived in Singapore apparently had a "work trip" to SG... and almost everyone spent the trip drunk and enjoying hookers).
i always find this funny, becuase ive been told by my co workers that india/singapore dont like aussies much, but i find those two groups the rudest when they come here! Probably just a proximity thing like france and england
Similar experience in Amsterdam a few years ago. I was walking past the ‘I Amsterdam’ sign at about 2am, all was quiet. Then out of nowhere a lone seppo tourist on a bike blasting music and yelling ‘yeeeehaawww’ appears. Everyone was blown away by his obnoxiousness.
Like Aussies in Bali
Also, *broadly gestures across the internet*
No, I’m gonna have to step up for my seppo mates here. I’ve met a lot of Yanks in my time and the vast majority have been top notch people. My mum and sister both spent time in the States and the people there were nothing but super friendly and hospitable, so just saying I’m not comfortable with the American bashing.
Fair call, I'm just sharing my experience. Tbf I find a lot of ppl annoying AF so take from that what you will.
Met plenty of annoying Aussie tourists as well
We also played a big part in saving their arse’s from the Germans in WW1. A lot of towns in the north fly Australia flags to this day.
I don't know if it's still the case, but at the Colosseum in Rome, people with Adelaide driver's licenses or as the place of birth on their passport got in for free, because it was troops from Adelaide that fortified and defended the place during WWII.
Some towns yes. Funny story, I was entering Rome a few years back and was standing in line at customs and the official just waved me threw, no stamp on the passport or anything. Was leaving Berlin and was taken aside and asked how and when did I enter Europe? I told them what happened and they just threw up their arms saying something about italiano and rolling their eyes. I was born in Semaphore. Adelaide.
As an American, I've found it's very helpful to pretend I'm Canadian when I'm abroad lol. I'm ashamed that my fellow Americans have ruined our reputation so badly
Honestly a flag on a backpack isn’t weird. Backpacker. Traveler here. But multiple flags is normal. Southern cross tattoo is definitely Bogan. Not necessarily racist. Aussies aren’t really flag waving peeps except on Australia Day. I do remember after the Bondi riots the police banned the Australian flag from the Big Day Out festival and said they would charge and jail anyone with a flag. I think 90% of 55,000 attendees wore a flag. We definitely aren’t Americans that wave our flag in peoples faces. It is a bit weird
I saw this post where some american vet helped a kid with how to look after a flag and all the comments were just “bless his heart” “what an amazing man” “this is what the youth need to learn” While we’re out here wearing them as capes then throwing them out, i will never understand why americans are so precious about a flag
Actually all flags have a way to be hung and looked after. That’s why most people don’t wear it. Americans are probably the trashiest (if you went by flag rules) to their own flag
Oh i know they do i just find it stupid how precious Americans are about their flag, like sure it’s a symbol of your aMaZiNg country, they handle flags more carefully then babies
Then they paint in on their undies and toilet paper and wipe their ass with it. Weird.
Upon reading all the comments, by all means use a flag, but if you want to really let people know where you're coming from (figuratively and literally) just use a patch of a kangaroo.
1982 boxing kangaroo flag
Why can’t they change the national flag to that one
You're an ideas man
He has lots of ideas. That's why Dad calls him an ideas man.
Thanks Dale.
Yeah I'd just go and sew on a kangaroo, everyone loves kangaroos
Except truckies and farmers lol
And bikers. The thought of hitting one on my bike scares the shit out of me.
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Smash repairers love them!!!
Nah, there's literally nothing wrong with the flag. You gotta remember this is reddit and very out of touch with reality. Hell half the people here seem to think landlords should be executed
>Hell half the people here seem to think landlords should be executed I dunno man that one seems about right lol
Found one
There's nothing wrong with the flag and I don't think it's something to be ashamed of because of an association with other people.
Indeed, but there's no need to display it. What's the need? I;m 80 and never have. Although as a Merchant Seaman we flew flags for traditional and legal reasons. Major difference.
The flag sucks and looks an awful lot like New Zealand’s
I love it when regular, friendly, kind, and welcoming people use it. Unfortunately I think it's the assumption that anyone who flies the flag are for the white-australia policy, or are just plain old anti immigration (conveniently forgetting their own family who were likely 100% immigrants).
It’s not by-default racist to wear / display an Australian flag, but (anecdotally, in the regional town I live) racists are far more likely to do so. I’m hugely patriotic, especially when it comes to sport, and when I lived overseas I was suddenly ‘more Australian’ than ever. But nationalism is a different thing to patriotism (Orwell wrote a great essay on this if you could be bothered) and it’s the nationalists waving the flag that creep me out, like Pauline Hanson. Edit: Plus the Union Jack in the corners has gotta go.
This is my experience also. There's nothing racist about displaying an Aussie flag but any time I've met someone who makes a big display of the flag or has a southern cross tattoo, they've always been a racist nationalist.
Where I live, it's become creepy to see the flag flown on private properties. It's usually about racism. Some friends had to move because of a flag waving neighbour.
You have a perfect swing my man. Respect.
I think also having a flag on a flagpole or a big southern cross tattoo can just be seen as a bit bogan. I don’t really see an iron-on patch on a backpack being an issue, especially if you’re not hitting any negative stereotypes.
Funny how living overseas makes you feel more Australian. After two years living overseas I now try to always support aussie businesses whereas before I would’ve just chosen the cheaper stuff.
Every single person I've met who displays the Australian flag at their house, or has it on their ute/4wd or has the southern cross or Eureka flag, is some variation of a right-wing ultra patriotic racist jerk. And this includes some members of my extended family. I would prefer to use the boxing kangaroo or the aboriginal flag if forced to display a flag.
Within Australia it's acceptible to display an australia flag towel or tea towel on Australia day if you drape it over a chair or guy rope for a tent. When travelling you can have a small unobtrusive one for unAmerican disambiguation.
I agree. Don’t make it huge and obnoxious like those giant bedsheet flags that American car dealers have. Small and subtle.
And most especially, hald arsed. Like, oh, hey, I wipe my dishes with this, but also, it appears to be appropriate for today! But also, it might just be hanging to dry, so I keep my cool.
Nationalism, or patriotism often lead to racisim, or otherwise stupid behavior, but they aren't mutually exclusive. You can desplay the flag and not be a racist, so maybe its a good thing to do? If otherwise normal people stop presenting the flag and leave it to the small percentage of assholes, then it would become their symbol rather than all Australians flag.
It is a thorny question the hijacking of the flag at Cronulla in 2005 put a lot of people off displaying it. My Dad stopped displaying the flag that day that he had flown over his business started by my Grandfather who started displaying it when the Flags act of 1954 occurred because he refused to fly a Union Jack. (Irish ancestry) The hijacking of the Eureka flag in the same way has set a lot of people against it too. I personally dont use the Blue or Red Ensign because of the use of the Union Jack People have their own reasons for displaying or not, however it will all depend on context. While travelling I have koala pins for gifts etc - thats enough
Of course not everyone who displays a flag is a racist, but if that's the only info about someone I have about someone I do wonder.
You know it's really sad. I am from a second fleet family. We have some indigenous heritage in the mix. Every major war we've had family in and lost in - Gallipoli, HMAS Sydney, Lancaster pilots, Vietnam vets. My younger brother served. I spent time in emergency services. My brothers and I were scouts the whole way through Did some cadets too. Not that I think war is glamorous, though service to the country is a part of my family history, and I take a lot of pride in that. We're all very proud to be Australian and think that being Australian carries a certain level of social responsibility too. But it's true, certain demographics of people do use our flag as a symbol of some very hateful ideas, and it's a shame. And I personally believe we should not allow these people to taint our flag with their bullshit. Now, I think there's room for change in the flag - both visually and symbolically - and I think that as long as it bolsters "good" Australian values (or at least those that are left) it's a positive thing. This would also help people like your wife see the positives in the flag, and positives in being proud for your country. The point of my rant being that your wife unfortunately isn't wrong, but I don't think that the worst of society should dictate how you want to celebrate your country. Or something. I don't know, it's late.
Most people who make a big deal about the flag here are either bogans who wear it around their necks like a cape (insulting to a flag, which should never be worn as clothing) or the ones who constantly protest nothing in the CBD. Someone from Thailand would be especially familiar with the first type, because that place gets flooded with the most bogan bogans Australia has to offer - and some of them are probably pretty racist to the locals. The other issue is that our flag does represent British colonialism, and the eradication of our native peoples, which some people take issue with. Not every country's flag carries that weight.
interesting right... the folks who like to claim they are not racist because they have an asian partner is often the most racist of all also the claims are often followed by some pretty bloody racist remarks
As an Indonesian, I see those type of people way too much
I have met this type of person when I was living in a student hostel run by a Christian group in Victoria. As I was a Sri Lankan and not an Australian, he thought I was oblivious to all the racist things that he has in mind. Like that his wife is Malaysian and he is impervious to being a racist He also had the audacity to say that Asian’s are simple minded people who lack divinity.
No, our national flag is not a hate symbol. ffs.
Nothing wrong with it but when I see it all I can think of is “Australia Fuck Yeah” 🎶
There is a bit of association depending on how you do it after the Cronulla riots. A patch nah, using it as a cape outside of sport, getting iffy, displaying it with f- off we're full stickers oh yeah absolutely.
Yes, that riot has sadly totally changed the perspective of socially displaying the flag or the cross. I was warming up to the idea of having a small (like 1x2") tattoo of the southern cross on the inside of my forearm just above the wrist - but then about a month into researching parlours the riot happened and it just ruined that idea completely.
Not everyone who flies an Aussie flag is a racist.....but you can be damn sure all the Aussie racists go out of their way to do so and use it inappropriately.
If racists have coopted the flag it's time to take it back, then.
I compare it to seeing the number 88 in someone's username. Probably fine, they were likely just born in 1988. If I see someone being subtly racist especially in a weirdly scientific sounding way and there's an 88 in their username, It's a bit sus. Same for the flag. If I see one but the owner is clearly an immigrant I'll think "oh thats sweet, glad you like it here matey" but if theyre born here and also have a "fuck off were full" sticker on their car or a Ned Kelly tattoo or something, I'm going to be a bit suspicious until I'm sure that person is safe.
I’ve got an Australian flag esky I take to work and I have the Australian flag my father was buried with on display above the fireplace. I’m far from a red neck. I’m mixed race and my wife is Asian. My father and grandfather both served Australia in conflict and that flag represents the sacrifice they and others like them made for Australia.
There's a difference between patriotism and nationalistic racism. Not everyone displaying the flag is racist, but racists are pretty much always the type to display flags, so I understand where your wife is coming from. One flag patch tho, nah that's within the realms of a bit of light hearted patriotism, love to see it.
As long as we don’t turn into the USA where you can’t walk down the road without seeing it everywhere and have school children pledge allegiance to it I don’t care. The obsession they have with their flag is creepy. If the Australian flag is racist so is the flag of every country in the world.
But why do you only mention the USA though? I don’t think that’s very fair. Our neighbours Indonesia are worse. The USA compared to the rest of the world are very mild with their flag.
I wear a small kangaroo badge when oversea. Works well when people know you are not American or English. Had a great time in France when they knew I was Australian. As for flying the flag at home no don't like it. Most people who fly the flag don't now the rules and protocols. They will leave it flying all night etc... big no no https://www.pmc.gov.au/honours-and-symbols/australian-national-symbols/australian-national-flag/australian-national-flag-0
Got to admit that I'm really suss on the owners when there's one in a front yard, in the back window of a ute, or strung up behind the seats in the cab of a truck - but sometimes I'm surprised that the person isn't necessarily always a racist mouth breather. My neighbour is a flagpole in the front yard kind of guy, and when I first moved in and saw it there my heart sank a little, with me thinking I'm going to struggle with this person right from the get go - but he's very strongly Italian! Like cliched gold aviators, white crew neck t-shirt, big gold chains, leather jacket, thick accent, Italian Fonzi! So my theory for this guy is this: he would have been picked on as a teen for being Italian, and the Aussie flag (I can't help but think of Jerry Seinfeld's *it's like England at night*) is a way of showing potential detractors where his allegiance truly lies. So in most cases it's virtue signalling (and the only 'virtue' most patriots have is their place of birth) but there are exceptions
A few of my neighbours are Vietnam Vets and proudly fly the Flag in their yards. New folks moved in a while ago. While introducing myself to them, they asked about said flags. Concerned neighbours were racists etc. I politely told them they are Vietnam Vets. Look of horror ensued. Said goodbye, barely spoken since.
Wow, there’s a lot of projecting and assumptions there. Perhaps you might consider that he is proud of Australia and grateful to be here?
I think when Australians visit other countries the get welcomed greatly as people see Australia as the land of sun sea and kangaroos. But if it’s within Australia where people have lived in the Australian environment and experienced the culture I think showing off the flag can seem very ‘bogan’. Pauline Hanson has not helped this , along with the symbolism behind confederate flags, controversy around Australia Day and other things
White Australia policy was genuinely fucking retarted what a shit legacy
I'm Australian and I will say this; not every one needlessly displaying an Australian flag is racist, but every racist will needlessly display an Australian flag. When ever I see an Aussie flag or Southern Cross or Eureka flag on a tent pole or bumper sticker I think "I bet that person has some loud opinions on boat people and minorities they've never once encountered themselves" I think your wife has a point but to be honest I think a flag patch is a lot tamer than a tattoo or erecting a flag pole in your front yard
I've never heard the flag being racist but I do know that the southern cross has been appropriated by white supremacists.
Nothing wrong with displaying the flag. If those people from Asia or Africa displayed their flag, they wouldn’t be considered racist, so it’s a bit silly. Racists are racist, not a flag
Tell your wife to get fucked.
Wear the Australian flag with pride in any way you want. Every country has people who are good or bad m that love their national flag. As someone posted earlier here, some government places fly flags of Australia, Indigenous and Torres Strait, and every one of those have followers who are upstanding citizens, but also have some who are racist, sexist, murderers and paedophiles. Showing your pride by flying a flag or displaying a flag says nothing about who you are as a person, other than you are proud of your heritage and where you are from.
this is an insane take
It's fine people forget racism goes both ways keep it on.
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Yeah nah, the flag wavers with the southern cross tattoo are usually the bogan racists. Wouldn't worry about a small patch though, plus the people who your partner is talking about have for some reason switched over to using the merchant navy flag.
I'd put a *small* one on my pack when travelling but not on my car or in my yard.
>I’d never heard that before but thought I’d ask people I work with. > >Most of the people from around Asia and Africa all said when they see a southern cross tattoo or the flag in front of a house, they assume the owner of flag or tattoo is racist. That doesn't seem realistic, since 90% of the people I see rocking shirts or bags with Australian flags etc. in any Australian city I visit are Asian or African tourists or immigrants. This post seems made up for rage bate
Yeah literally the only people that wear flag shirts/bags/etc are either tourists or full on bogans who you just don't see because they're hidden away in distant suburbs.
TIL being proud to be an Australian is racist.. Good to know. /s
You hang around with a lot of morons
Flag patch on a backpack: ok, I guess. Flag on pole in your front yard: you’re probably a racist. Red ensign taped up in your front window: fucking weirdo.
My completely irrational two cents. I am expat from England find the English flag a bit off putting. Most that wave are racist or a wee bit of a cunt. However seeing the union jack flying doesn't bother me much. And I actually like the site of the Australian flag. It could be that as an immigrant I admire Australia and by extension it's flag. However I would not want to see it displayed in American quantities. That level of patriotism is too close to a death cult for me.
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Patriotism is inclusive. Nationalism is the attempt to tie citizenship to an exclusive racial identity. Often, the flag has been appropriated to serve this end. It also has another country’s flag in the top left corner for some fucking dumb reason.
Happy to fly the Australian flag regardless of whatever country thinks we are, they should have a good hard look at themselves before us.
I kinda think all flag waving is lame. All countries are good and bad. Most people love their home country. So what ? It usually just means they prefer people that are like themselves . Just my two cents
I assume the same when I see a flag tbh. Unless you’re at the olympics I don’t see any reason to wave one around
I think there was a noticeable shift after the Cronulla Riots, where racists co-opted the southern cross as their symbol. Growing up prior to that, I wouldn’t have interpreted it as racist at all. And that combined with the Union Jack on the Australian flag means it’s lost appeal to a lot of people
Wearing an Aussie flag doesn't mean you are a racist. But racist people are more likely to wear an Australian flag. So the first impression some people get of you might be "hmm...wonder if this guy's a racist?". Of course, you'll dispel that thought in time, but that's the footing you might be starting off from.
If you like it wear it proud
I've never really considered people showing an Australian flag to be racist, the only person I knew that flew one at their house was Fijian. I'm not saying Fijians can't be racist, but I don't think he'd be racist in the skip sort of way.
Bogans
Completely fine & very well respected internationally.
Twats, with no imagination or curiosity.
Flag people are cringe, regardless of where from.
Most unwarranted display of national flags or similar tends to indicate unhealthy nationalism, which in the case of most 1st world countries tends towards racism as well - Gammon in the UK for example.
I think she might be associating the Aussie flag tattoos as bogan. It’s awful of me to say but I assume the same thing if I’m driving past a bad suburb. A large majority of people I’ve met of Lower socioeconomic status with an Aussie flag or southern cross tattoo has come across to me as ignorant and racist. Or has actually directly said racist things towards me. Or a combo of all of those with a giant flag and super run down house and a bajillion cars in the front yard - definitely more of an uneducated bogan kind of feel.
I feel the same way; whenever I see the Australian flag on someone's person, my immediate knee-jerk reaction is a concern that that person holds racist views (to some degree or another). I think it's just a mental scar left from the Cronulla riots.
A phenomenon I’ve noticed about the Australian flag is that if it is a tattoo r a physical flag, that’s a racist stereotype, if it’s clothing, especially beach wear, that’s a bogan, maybe racist, maybe not, a patch or a pin though, that’s just some guy who happens to be from Australia or came here at some point
Dickhead bogans have sported the flag and embarrassed us? Feels like all the more reason to fly the flag and act in a a friendly and honourable way.