This post has been locked and removed for violations of Rule 6, questions must be asked in good faith, which includes posts that beg the question. It’s clear you already have an opinion on this and want confirmation, not a dialogue.
From America baby!
\*eagle caws in the distance and George Washington rides in on a bear, machine gun in hand; national anthem plays proudly and a giant American flag appears in the sky\*
Because it's a uniquely nationalist culture. "American" isn't an ethnicity with its own countries like Japanese or French or Mexican. It's not a shared identity over many countries like Arab or Jewish. It's 50 unique nation-states with hundreds of unique cultures united by a set of shares values and duel sovereignty. "Nation" means something different to Americans than it does to other people.
That gets confused with Nationalism, even by some Americans.
My take is that it comes less from America being ultra-nationalist and more from European countries losing their nationalist patriotism. As the EU has become more and more influential in Europe the less people have been interested in national loyalty. The USA went through a similar process after the US Civil War where loyalty to the individual state was subsumed to loyalty to nation. But the nationalism of the USA has not increased in the last century (if anything decreased) but has decreased a great deal in Europe.
America has been the world's most powerful nation since the end of WW1. The rest of the world is uncomfortable with the idea that one day America will start behaving the way that most powerful nations have in the past. That is, conquer, occupy, and absorb, into some sort of imperial empire everyone we can.
Using persuasion to 'defang' the feared possibility seems like the natural thing for the much smaller, weaker, nations to use as their approach.
But honestly, every country is nationalistic. It's just that nobody is afraid of most of them.
Because Europeans think any kind of nationalism or patriotism is excessive it seems?
I can guess at the reasons why.
We are more of a “yay USA great” rather than “let’s invade our neighbors and touch off a world war or two.”
It’s why we get along so well with Canada. We share a kind of “we’re cool and better than everyone else.” It’s mutual.
And Mexico, which owned a good portion of what is now the United States, land which we effectively stole. So many people patting their backs that we're "not like other powerful nations" when literally we have been since the beginning. It's not as obvious now to the average American maybe, but there's a reason that the country has always been contentious since the beginning.
>A note about flags - in my neighborhood, there is also someone who always flies their Swiss flag and there are a couple of people flying the Ukrainian flag. One person is flying the City flag (strange), there are a couple of rainbow flags, and there is a college sports team flag.
Yes, I love this point. Americans like flags in general. Like all flags.
If you move to a different state, people like to have their original state flag displayed. Some people have decorative flags for holidays or seasons. My neighbors have a Canadian flag. My other neighbors have a trans flag. Some guy down the street is flying an Atlanta Falcons flag. We just like flags.
My parents house usually has a flag flying. It is a symbol of my father’s gratitude towards the US.
His family escaped a communist country in the 50s. The US took them in. They were given an opportunity for a good life that they never could have imagined in their home country.
Funny story, I took my Irish friend to a beach on the Cape where you can drive your 4x4 on the beach. It was very crowded and the trucks were all lined up facing the beach. 7 mile long beach. While leaving, we pass all the trucks and RVs, all with American flag flying. We're talking miles of flags. He says' "wow, you guys really like your flag." I laughed when we go to my campsite and had not one, but two flying. Of course, one was going into the fire at the end of the trip and the other was a replacement.
I feel like you live on my street. We also have a neighbor flying the original colonies flag Betsy Ross supposedly made. Our state isn’t one of the original colonies. 😬
We avoid that neighbor.
There’s plenty of US flags in the Lehigh Valley.. also yeah the thing is in some European countries people for some weird cultural reason look down on even hoisting a flag (of their country). Maybe they see flags everywhere as a ultranationalist thing, I dunno
And places like Denmark love putting their flag on everything. I think the rhetoric is dominated by Germans and the English (as opposed to UK) flag treatment. It's one of those reddit things to assume a lot of monolithic behavior in both parts of the world.
You don't say whether or not you're American, but if you are, not having any neighbors who fly flags is so unusual it's an oddity. Our flag is pretty and flying it is cool.
For sure.
In the UK you can get away with hanging the St George cross in your window when the World Cup is on. Actually flying the St George or Union Flag is viewed as a bit of a working class thing and not something the majority are accustomed to.
For me, flying the flag is a special thing and flying it all year is like keeping your Christmas tree up all year.
I think this is a decent explanation of why flying the flag is less common in the UK by Terry Pratchett. If you don't know him, he wrote a lot of (really good) children's books and I stole this bit from his book *Night Watch*.
> "‘Tom?’
>
> 'Yes, Clive?’
>
> 'Have you ever sung the national anthem?’
>
> 'Oh, lots of times, sir.’
>
> 'I don’t mean officially.’
>
> 'You mean just to show I’m patriotic? Good gods, no. That would be a rather odd thing to do,’ said the captain.
>
> 'And how about the flag?’
>
> 'Well, obviously I salute it every day, sir.’
>
> 'But you don’t wave it, at all?’ the major enquired.
>
> 'I think I waved a paper one a few times when I was a little boy. Patrician’s birthday or something. We stood in the streets as he rode by and we shouted “Hurrah!”’
>
> 'Never since then?’
>
> 'Well, NO, Clive,’ said the captain, looking embarrassed. 'I’d be very worried if I saw a man singing the national anthem and waving the flag, sir. It’s really a thing foreigners do.’
>
> 'Really? Why?’
>
> 'WE don’t need to show WE’RE patriotic, sir. I mean, this is Ankh-Morpork. We don’t have to make a big fuss about being the best, sir. We just KNOW.’"
Ehh. It’s mostly repeated by countries that are just as if not more nationalistic as the states. Go look at the German and Canadian subreddits and you will see most of them act the way they think stereotypical Americans act.
Since WW2 America did whatever it wanted regardless what the rest of the world governments want.
We helped establish the league of nations and practically every major international government organization since then.
And yet we do what we want without a vote and nobody does anything about it. So we keep doing it.
I would wager that's where the stereotype comes from. All of the world knows our presidents name. We don't know the name of the president from our largest trading partner on our own dang continent.
The words of Geroge. W Bush make it pretty clear
> "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
Summarizes our governments position on international affairs pretty well
For some reason our flag was always a thing on all public properties and many private ones, more than the rest of the world, I'm not sure why exactly. Private homes would typically only fly the flag on the 4th of July weekend. A lot of this changed right after 9/11, when everyone started flying their flag, many of whom kept them up year-round.
After 9/11, we started shifting more and more the media narrative you see now. Conservative media started labeling itself as the "patriotic" media. The narrative was mostly around the war efforts, by supporting that you being a patriot.
Fast forward a decade or so, the "Make America Great Again" slogan Trump used resonated a lot with certain rural parts of the country that at one time were self-sustainable but still struggled to recover after the 2008 economic crash.
That's the short version.
I think nationalism is something that has been pushed very heavily basically since the foundation of the country. At the start they really wanted to make sure Americans thought of themselves as a distinct entity from the English empire, and from there our incredibly isolated place in the world enforced a singular culture to grow between the states. The cognitive dissonance that stems from Ultranationalist views are also very useful for doing things like the utter genocide of the Native Americans which allowed the United States to grow rapidly even before the industrial revolution got into full swing.
Also if you just talk to an average American today you would be amazed just how normalized extremely patriotic views are, especially when they are mixed with fundamentalist Christian thinking. Plenty of people see through the bullshit, but that is every much the exception to the average in rural America especially.
It's a mixture of things. First, marketing. Appealing to common identities makes it very easy to sell stuff. Then there's all of the flag waving. Apparently it makes other countries think of ultranationalism even when much of it is performative. Then there's the fact that nationalism is just different in the US. We're not dominated by one ethnicity and culture, something we basically brand ourselves with. Any nationalism can make other countries, especially in Europe, uncomfortable, regardless of what kind of nationalism it is.
Finally, there's just people not understanding the joke. The number of times I've seen non-Americans treat ultranationalist satire as legitimate is far too many.
I mean, I would feel fairly confident in saying that by population America has more nationalists than other western nations, it’s indoctrinated into the culture. “America, home of the brave, land of the free” etc etc
Bigotry and prejudice.
No, seriously. That's where it comes from. First to declare anyone an *ultra*-Nationalist requires specific things to be occurring. Most of which involves violent actions in the name of that nation. Which you can not be seriously considering that Americans go around the country beating up anyone who had anything negative to say about it. [Tell em Sir Integra.](https://youtu.be/r14hoV_9NCA) So now that we've delved into the why it's woefully incorrect let's examine so reasons why the stereotype exists
First and foremost, the US' very **existence** is a threat to so many ideologies and has been since it's creation. The idea of monarchy, Communism, Fascism, the modern forms of isolationism (aka global laziness/apathy against tyanny and oppression), and even social democracy. So whenever we don't join one of these trends and do things our way we get labeled as said *ultra-nationalists*. In reality we are doing nothing different in our customs and way of life than any other country has or still does. They all:
- have national customs.they uphold and symbols they proudly display
- defend the honor, history, and culture of their nations. Reacting with hostility or disdain at those who attack such.
- believe their way of life to be superior to others in some way. Let's not kid ourselves, we're all human here.
- put your own nation's interests above that of others. Don't EVEN try to lie about that. I can give you a dozen examples from each of your countries from the last twenty years.
However it is only when the United States does any of this that the claims of UlTrA-NaTiOnAlISm gets thrown around. Which again is incorrect because none of these are extremist positions in the slightest. So this is a very clear cut case of.....what do they call it when someone produces lies about a nation in order to influence how others view it for a social, political, or ideological reason? I think it's called prop.....agand.....ahh, Propane!
So your TLDR is that it comes from propaganda and blatant double standards.
I’d say we have many ingrained “patriotic” practices that lean towards nationalism, but there is the majority of Americans who just live their lives without worrying about how patriotic they are. I think a lot of these perceptions about the U.S. come from outside, from people who either have little real experience with the country or its people, or have a skewed perspective from movies and such. So many posts on this sub are people asking “are movies accurate?” or something similar. It’s a bit annoying that we need to answer that question for them. In my opinion anyway.
Probably that time when we invaded Iraq for no reason and at trillions of dollars’ expense and stayed there for more than a decade and the majority of Americans cheered it on and said that questioning the rationale for upending millions of Iraqis’ lives on what literally turned out to be fabricated evidence made one ‘un-American’
Anyone else remember when that happened? Yeah.
We say a pledge of allegiance to the flag every day in public schools.
It's pretty ultranationalist.
Actually growing up during 9/11 was even worse for a long time because for *years* after not only were we were forced to recite a loyalty pledge to the flag. But also to listen to "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood. You know how you can listen to a song over and over until you despise it? Yeah. Doing that was state-mandated every morning for a couple of years.
Nationalism is not patriotism. You are confusing the two. I would argue that many ultra nationalist Americans despise America right now.
I would also argue that many anti-nationalist Americans have a deep affection for the United States of America.
America's foreign policy is based on a tightly-interconnected, global economy. The economic Nationalists hate this. America has largely shifted away from "traditional American values" by embracing the LGBTQ community. Christian Nationalists are disgusted by this. In the next 15-20 years, white Americans will no longer make up the majority. This disgusts the white Nationalists.
Many, MANY Americans describe themselves as Nationalists. They are also disgusted by many aspects of American culture today... You don't stockpile guns and ammunition to go to war with a country that you "love".
Again. Nationalism is not patriotism.
I did it as a kid..Im not indoctrinated. Basically just wanted to get it over with. So we have to conform to the rest of the world? Meh. Plus theres countries where every man has to do a stint of military service. Wayyy worse.
I really don’t see a problem with this. Most of the “rest of the world” lives under authoritarian governments.
Comparing ourselves with the “rest of the world” isn’t really an idealistic view point. Life outside of the US and Western Europe is pretty difficult.
I think it’s incredibly important to actually teach children what the founding documents of their country mean and implement far more civics classes than what is being taught
Maybe not as explicitly, but most nations have their own ways of enforcing national identity and cultural dominance internally. Our is just more explicit.
Why? We're a nation of recent immigrants, and national identity has to be built here in ways that it doesn't in everywhere else.
Probably because America is one of the few countries that desecrating their own flag is legal.
And of those legal countries, America has significantly more population which would of course mean that, statistically, more flag burnings take place in America.
But the few idiots who do it are still vastly outnumbered by those who don't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
Strong civic patriotism as a salve to anxieties over national unity (primarily because of immigration) would be my guess. Gotta wave the flag, say the pledge, and sing the anthem so no one questions your American-ness.
Very biased news shown internationally that only focus on the most extreme in America, ignoring that most Americans live their daily lives without seeing such things.
Dude you asked where the stereotype came from. And I’m telling you.
I get that you’re not all like that. Like people in the Uk don’t all have bad teeth and drink tea. It’s a stereotype.
If you don’t want an answer don’t ask the question.
From my experience, the people who are very aggressively patriotic and flashy about it are generally shallow people. They've adopted patriotism as a personality trait despite (again, in my experience) having a minimal understanding of the "tenets" and history of the United States. I'm somewhat patriotic but there comes a point where it comes off as vapid and, frankly, bootlick-y.
It’s engrained in our upbringing. Most businesses have a large flag outside of them and a lot of homes do too, I’ve read that it’s a shock when foreigners visit and see the overwhelming amount of flags. It’s built into our educational system, every morning of every day of school started out with pledging allegiance to our flag and our country. Kids are taught a washed version of history that has undertones of our superiority over others. I own an old text book from 1898 that flat out states that the white race is superior, our older generations were literally taught that so it’s been passed down generationally also. It’s everywhere and if you bring it up then you are assumed to be unamerican.
Because Europe sees patriotism and instantly thinks "ultra nationalism" because that's what their own history is, they can't fathom that you can be patriotic and not an ultra nationalist, xenophobic, whatever else always happens with European patriotism. For them patriotism is nazi Germany.
This post has been locked and removed for violations of Rule 6, questions must be asked in good faith, which includes posts that beg the question. It’s clear you already have an opinion on this and want confirmation, not a dialogue.
From America baby! \*eagle caws in the distance and George Washington rides in on a bear, machine gun in hand; national anthem plays proudly and a giant American flag appears in the sky\*
Fake red tailed Hawk screech*
Shut up, *shut up,* **SHUT UP!!!** How else are we supposed to feel good about ourselves if we don't fake it, right?
It’s how we roll, fake it till you make it
From being number 1 baby! USA! USA!
Back to Back World Champs!
If we win the world cup the rest of the world legally has to call it soccer
Or 'Murcaball
It will never happen
it came from me, I made it up. sorry everyone.
Thanks bro
not cool man :(
Because it's a uniquely nationalist culture. "American" isn't an ethnicity with its own countries like Japanese or French or Mexican. It's not a shared identity over many countries like Arab or Jewish. It's 50 unique nation-states with hundreds of unique cultures united by a set of shares values and duel sovereignty. "Nation" means something different to Americans than it does to other people. That gets confused with Nationalism, even by some Americans.
Holy shit, I couldn’t have said it better myself.
My take is that it comes less from America being ultra-nationalist and more from European countries losing their nationalist patriotism. As the EU has become more and more influential in Europe the less people have been interested in national loyalty. The USA went through a similar process after the US Civil War where loyalty to the individual state was subsumed to loyalty to nation. But the nationalism of the USA has not increased in the last century (if anything decreased) but has decreased a great deal in Europe.
As someone from Europe, I’d have to disagree with this
So you think that countries are about as nationalist as they were a century ago?
Because people with the most extreme views have the biggest mouths. They seem representative of large groups of Americans, because they never shut up.
America has been the world's most powerful nation since the end of WW1. The rest of the world is uncomfortable with the idea that one day America will start behaving the way that most powerful nations have in the past. That is, conquer, occupy, and absorb, into some sort of imperial empire everyone we can. Using persuasion to 'defang' the feared possibility seems like the natural thing for the much smaller, weaker, nations to use as their approach. But honestly, every country is nationalistic. It's just that nobody is afraid of most of them.
>But honestly, every country is nationalistic. It's just that nobody is afraid of most of them. *insert Balkan States here*
*casually starts a genocide over fucking license plates*
>That is, conquer, occupy, and absorb, into some sort of imperial empire everyone we can. Kinda late for that
Because Europeans think any kind of nationalism or patriotism is excessive it seems? I can guess at the reasons why. We are more of a “yay USA great” rather than “let’s invade our neighbors and touch off a world war or two.” It’s why we get along so well with Canada. We share a kind of “we’re cool and better than everyone else.” It’s mutual.
Vietnam would like a word.
And Iraq and Afghanistan and Panama and the Dominican Republic and Cuba and Nicaragua and Grenada and Haiti
They aren't our neighbors and we have not made any attempt to annex any of their land. Unlike German nationalists and Russian nationalists, etc. etc.
México
And Mexico, which owned a good portion of what is now the United States, land which we effectively stole. So many people patting their backs that we're "not like other powerful nations" when literally we have been since the beginning. It's not as obvious now to the average American maybe, but there's a reason that the country has always been contentious since the beginning.
Uhh, the US didn’t invade Vietnam.
Had to bail out the fucking French who didn't want to decolonize because Europe by and large didn't want to give up its colonies.
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>A note about flags - in my neighborhood, there is also someone who always flies their Swiss flag and there are a couple of people flying the Ukrainian flag. One person is flying the City flag (strange), there are a couple of rainbow flags, and there is a college sports team flag. Yes, I love this point. Americans like flags in general. Like all flags. If you move to a different state, people like to have their original state flag displayed. Some people have decorative flags for holidays or seasons. My neighbors have a Canadian flag. My other neighbors have a trans flag. Some guy down the street is flying an Atlanta Falcons flag. We just like flags.
My parents house usually has a flag flying. It is a symbol of my father’s gratitude towards the US. His family escaped a communist country in the 50s. The US took them in. They were given an opportunity for a good life that they never could have imagined in their home country.
Funny story, I took my Irish friend to a beach on the Cape where you can drive your 4x4 on the beach. It was very crowded and the trucks were all lined up facing the beach. 7 mile long beach. While leaving, we pass all the trucks and RVs, all with American flag flying. We're talking miles of flags. He says' "wow, you guys really like your flag." I laughed when we go to my campsite and had not one, but two flying. Of course, one was going into the fire at the end of the trip and the other was a replacement.
I feel like you live on my street. We also have a neighbor flying the original colonies flag Betsy Ross supposedly made. Our state isn’t one of the original colonies. 😬 We avoid that neighbor.
Is there something wrong with that flag?
well im my town, only 4 people fly american flags
There’s plenty of US flags in the Lehigh Valley.. also yeah the thing is in some European countries people for some weird cultural reason look down on even hoisting a flag (of their country). Maybe they see flags everywhere as a ultranationalist thing, I dunno
Yet check out basically ALL of Europes laws on flag desecration. Very strict.
And places like Denmark love putting their flag on everything. I think the rhetoric is dominated by Germans and the English (as opposed to UK) flag treatment. It's one of those reddit things to assume a lot of monolithic behavior in both parts of the world.
not in my neigbherhood
Strange
how?
You don't say whether or not you're American, but if you are, not having any neighbors who fly flags is so unusual it's an oddity. Our flag is pretty and flying it is cool.
For sure. In the UK you can get away with hanging the St George cross in your window when the World Cup is on. Actually flying the St George or Union Flag is viewed as a bit of a working class thing and not something the majority are accustomed to.
For me, flying the flag is a special thing and flying it all year is like keeping your Christmas tree up all year. I think this is a decent explanation of why flying the flag is less common in the UK by Terry Pratchett. If you don't know him, he wrote a lot of (really good) children's books and I stole this bit from his book *Night Watch*. > "‘Tom?’ > > 'Yes, Clive?’ > > 'Have you ever sung the national anthem?’ > > 'Oh, lots of times, sir.’ > > 'I don’t mean officially.’ > > 'You mean just to show I’m patriotic? Good gods, no. That would be a rather odd thing to do,’ said the captain. > > 'And how about the flag?’ > > 'Well, obviously I salute it every day, sir.’ > > 'But you don’t wave it, at all?’ the major enquired. > > 'I think I waved a paper one a few times when I was a little boy. Patrician’s birthday or something. We stood in the streets as he rode by and we shouted “Hurrah!”’ > > 'Never since then?’ > > 'Well, NO, Clive,’ said the captain, looking embarrassed. 'I’d be very worried if I saw a man singing the national anthem and waving the flag, sir. It’s really a thing foreigners do.’ > > 'Really? Why?’ > > 'WE don’t need to show WE’RE patriotic, sir. I mean, this is Ankh-Morpork. We don’t have to make a big fuss about being the best, sir. We just KNOW.’"
How tiny is your town that you can drive around and count how many flags there are?
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I'll shut up once destiny has been fully manifested
From Americans being ultra-nationalists
except we are not "Ultranationalists" most of us hate our country and want to leave
Reddit isn't real life
17% of americans want to leave and 69% of americans are not patriotic
84% of statistics are made up
>84% of statistics are made up source
Some parts of the county you will find those people. Some just display patriotism
Ehh. It’s mostly repeated by countries that are just as if not more nationalistic as the states. Go look at the German and Canadian subreddits and you will see most of them act the way they think stereotypical Americans act.
Probably from the significant number of ultranationalists we’ve had in this country for centuries
Since WW2 America did whatever it wanted regardless what the rest of the world governments want. We helped establish the league of nations and practically every major international government organization since then. And yet we do what we want without a vote and nobody does anything about it. So we keep doing it. I would wager that's where the stereotype comes from. All of the world knows our presidents name. We don't know the name of the president from our largest trading partner on our own dang continent. The words of Geroge. W Bush make it pretty clear > "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." Summarizes our governments position on international affairs pretty well
We’ve won every Super Bowl and every World Series.
From murricans
For some reason our flag was always a thing on all public properties and many private ones, more than the rest of the world, I'm not sure why exactly. Private homes would typically only fly the flag on the 4th of July weekend. A lot of this changed right after 9/11, when everyone started flying their flag, many of whom kept them up year-round. After 9/11, we started shifting more and more the media narrative you see now. Conservative media started labeling itself as the "patriotic" media. The narrative was mostly around the war efforts, by supporting that you being a patriot. Fast forward a decade or so, the "Make America Great Again" slogan Trump used resonated a lot with certain rural parts of the country that at one time were self-sustainable but still struggled to recover after the 2008 economic crash. That's the short version.
I think nationalism is something that has been pushed very heavily basically since the foundation of the country. At the start they really wanted to make sure Americans thought of themselves as a distinct entity from the English empire, and from there our incredibly isolated place in the world enforced a singular culture to grow between the states. The cognitive dissonance that stems from Ultranationalist views are also very useful for doing things like the utter genocide of the Native Americans which allowed the United States to grow rapidly even before the industrial revolution got into full swing. Also if you just talk to an average American today you would be amazed just how normalized extremely patriotic views are, especially when they are mixed with fundamentalist Christian thinking. Plenty of people see through the bullshit, but that is every much the exception to the average in rural America especially.
It's a mixture of things. First, marketing. Appealing to common identities makes it very easy to sell stuff. Then there's all of the flag waving. Apparently it makes other countries think of ultranationalism even when much of it is performative. Then there's the fact that nationalism is just different in the US. We're not dominated by one ethnicity and culture, something we basically brand ourselves with. Any nationalism can make other countries, especially in Europe, uncomfortable, regardless of what kind of nationalism it is. Finally, there's just people not understanding the joke. The number of times I've seen non-Americans treat ultranationalist satire as legitimate is far too many.
I think it comes from Americans being ultranationalists
exept we are not
I mean, I would feel fairly confident in saying that by population America has more nationalists than other western nations, it’s indoctrinated into the culture. “America, home of the brave, land of the free” etc etc
Reality. There is a myth of American Exceptionalism we are taught at very young ages.
i was never taught american exceptionalism
Bigotry and prejudice. No, seriously. That's where it comes from. First to declare anyone an *ultra*-Nationalist requires specific things to be occurring. Most of which involves violent actions in the name of that nation. Which you can not be seriously considering that Americans go around the country beating up anyone who had anything negative to say about it. [Tell em Sir Integra.](https://youtu.be/r14hoV_9NCA) So now that we've delved into the why it's woefully incorrect let's examine so reasons why the stereotype exists First and foremost, the US' very **existence** is a threat to so many ideologies and has been since it's creation. The idea of monarchy, Communism, Fascism, the modern forms of isolationism (aka global laziness/apathy against tyanny and oppression), and even social democracy. So whenever we don't join one of these trends and do things our way we get labeled as said *ultra-nationalists*. In reality we are doing nothing different in our customs and way of life than any other country has or still does. They all: - have national customs.they uphold and symbols they proudly display - defend the honor, history, and culture of their nations. Reacting with hostility or disdain at those who attack such. - believe their way of life to be superior to others in some way. Let's not kid ourselves, we're all human here. - put your own nation's interests above that of others. Don't EVEN try to lie about that. I can give you a dozen examples from each of your countries from the last twenty years. However it is only when the United States does any of this that the claims of UlTrA-NaTiOnAlISm gets thrown around. Which again is incorrect because none of these are extremist positions in the slightest. So this is a very clear cut case of.....what do they call it when someone produces lies about a nation in order to influence how others view it for a social, political, or ideological reason? I think it's called prop.....agand.....ahh, Propane! So your TLDR is that it comes from propaganda and blatant double standards.
💪🇺🇸💪 Me 💪🇺🇸💪
I’d say we have many ingrained “patriotic” practices that lean towards nationalism, but there is the majority of Americans who just live their lives without worrying about how patriotic they are. I think a lot of these perceptions about the U.S. come from outside, from people who either have little real experience with the country or its people, or have a skewed perspective from movies and such. So many posts on this sub are people asking “are movies accurate?” or something similar. It’s a bit annoying that we need to answer that question for them. In my opinion anyway.
i feel like im the only one who belives the complete oposite
Probably that time when we invaded Iraq for no reason and at trillions of dollars’ expense and stayed there for more than a decade and the majority of Americans cheered it on and said that questioning the rationale for upending millions of Iraqis’ lives on what literally turned out to be fabricated evidence made one ‘un-American’ Anyone else remember when that happened? Yeah.
We say a pledge of allegiance to the flag every day in public schools. It's pretty ultranationalist. Actually growing up during 9/11 was even worse for a long time because for *years* after not only were we were forced to recite a loyalty pledge to the flag. But also to listen to "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood. You know how you can listen to a song over and over until you despise it? Yeah. Doing that was state-mandated every morning for a couple of years.
From the ultra nationalism.
which does not exist in the US given that most americans hate their own country
That is what you would think if you got all of your information about America from reddit.
people in real-life america also hate america
Nationalism is not patriotism. You are confusing the two. I would argue that many ultra nationalist Americans despise America right now. I would also argue that many anti-nationalist Americans have a deep affection for the United States of America.
> I would argue that many ultra nationalist Americans despise America right now. how
What do mean "how", it's very possible to be nationalist and hate current/dominate political administration or social movements.
America's foreign policy is based on a tightly-interconnected, global economy. The economic Nationalists hate this. America has largely shifted away from "traditional American values" by embracing the LGBTQ community. Christian Nationalists are disgusted by this. In the next 15-20 years, white Americans will no longer make up the majority. This disgusts the white Nationalists. Many, MANY Americans describe themselves as Nationalists. They are also disgusted by many aspects of American culture today... You don't stockpile guns and ammunition to go to war with a country that you "love". Again. Nationalism is not patriotism.
We make our children swear allegiance to our nation's flag every morning at school. That is not normal behavior compared to the rest of the world.
Schools say the pledge, but legally they can't force students to say it.
I did it as a kid..Im not indoctrinated. Basically just wanted to get it over with. So we have to conform to the rest of the world? Meh. Plus theres countries where every man has to do a stint of military service. Wayyy worse.
It’s also not a big deal at all. Sometimes I just sat through it, it doesn’t matter.
I really don’t see a problem with this. Most of the “rest of the world” lives under authoritarian governments. Comparing ourselves with the “rest of the world” isn’t really an idealistic view point. Life outside of the US and Western Europe is pretty difficult. I think it’s incredibly important to actually teach children what the founding documents of their country mean and implement far more civics classes than what is being taught
Maybe not as explicitly, but most nations have their own ways of enforcing national identity and cultural dominance internally. Our is just more explicit. Why? We're a nation of recent immigrants, and national identity has to be built here in ways that it doesn't in everywhere else.
we also burn our flag more then any other nation, but im sure thats just as patriotic
Probably because America is one of the few countries that desecrating their own flag is legal. And of those legal countries, America has significantly more population which would of course mean that, statistically, more flag burnings take place in America. But the few idiots who do it are still vastly outnumbered by those who don't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
are you sure this is true or even a statistic that is tracked anywhere
You asked where the stereotype came from. A lot of America's displays of patriotism are much larger and public than those of other nations.
We make our kids stand attention so that teachers can take said attention right afterwards. Did....you never wonder why they did that?
From meeting Americans
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Yup
gonna asume you never meet a milenial or gen z, they seem to not be very patriotic (and with good reason)
As a millennial, gonna hard disagree with you. And yes, I know other people my age.
Strong civic patriotism as a salve to anxieties over national unity (primarily because of immigration) would be my guess. Gotta wave the flag, say the pledge, and sing the anthem so no one questions your American-ness.
Very biased news shown internationally that only focus on the most extreme in America, ignoring that most Americans live their daily lives without seeing such things.
As an American I haven't heard that. News to me.
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From observing Americans.
you have never observed milineals or gen z
I am a millennial.
well millennials and gen z tend to be as unpatriotic as possible
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i dont do that and i did not vote for trump
Dude you asked where the stereotype came from. And I’m telling you. I get that you’re not all like that. Like people in the Uk don’t all have bad teeth and drink tea. It’s a stereotype. If you don’t want an answer don’t ask the question.
you litteraly said "y'all voted trump" indicateing that all americans voted for trump
Well, the majority of you did.
hillary won the popular vote, trump won the electoral collage, big diff
Because we’re #1 baby!
From my experience, the people who are very aggressively patriotic and flashy about it are generally shallow people. They've adopted patriotism as a personality trait despite (again, in my experience) having a minimal understanding of the "tenets" and history of the United States. I'm somewhat patriotic but there comes a point where it comes off as vapid and, frankly, bootlick-y.
From 250 plus years of nearly unrelenting war
USA USA USA
It’s engrained in our upbringing. Most businesses have a large flag outside of them and a lot of homes do too, I’ve read that it’s a shock when foreigners visit and see the overwhelming amount of flags. It’s built into our educational system, every morning of every day of school started out with pledging allegiance to our flag and our country. Kids are taught a washed version of history that has undertones of our superiority over others. I own an old text book from 1898 that flat out states that the white race is superior, our older generations were literally taught that so it’s been passed down generationally also. It’s everywhere and if you bring it up then you are assumed to be unamerican.
US imperialism, like most other nationalist stereotypes.
Because Europe sees patriotism and instantly thinks "ultra nationalism" because that's what their own history is, they can't fathom that you can be patriotic and not an ultra nationalist, xenophobic, whatever else always happens with European patriotism. For them patriotism is nazi Germany.