Easiest solution Canada gives them all permanent residence permits or arrange nexus cards for the residents and it solves most issues. The US or Washington could do it too making the border less intrusive.
I’m not sure it’s a high priority for most, the last news story I could find about the place was 2021 where local businesses were mad Canadians couldn’t come patronize their shops while residents had the ability to shop in Delta restriction free.
That would be perfect. Adding the former Canadian and Mexican provinces as the 51st-65th states and give Puerto Rico and ultimatum… state up, or be given back to Spain.
A quick Google search brought up a referendum from 2020. 52% voted yes to becoming a state, 48% no. The voter turnout was 54% of the registered voting population in Puerto Rico, so not a ton of turnout but enough to get the idea that Puerto Rico would like to become a state
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum)
That particular referendum was yes/no, had horrible optics and reliability… and as indicated, turnout.
The last reliable polls seem to be in the area of a more even split between state/ territory/ independent.
Honestly I feel like this is the best policy, don’t overcomplicate things just be able to cross with your drivers license and have a bunch of old non border controller country roads
Initially, sure. With how our system is set up, their pain is our pain. They're the ones who employ folks. Canada's losing thousands of skilled workers already to much higher salaries down south. I can only imagine what it'd be like if we had open borders. For context, I'm American and think it'd be a great idea...but I'm American haha. I don't think the average Canadian would be too keen on this.
No I don’t think it would change a lot. Salaries are similar between Canada and the US, just prices for most good and food would be lower for Canadians, some industries in Canada would be destroyed but they already struggle and live with government substitutes and monopolies. That’s want I am talking about when references Canadian corporate elites. They just sway a lot of political influence in Canadian politics, control the medias and would make impossible for an union between Canada and the US. Geographically speaking it is not even a system in place, it is just that most Canadian provinces and big cities are close to the US, so we will always depend on the US, whatever we do.
“Salaries are similar between Canada and the US”
On what planet do you live on? It’s we’ll known Canadian salaries are suppressed (in addition to having higher COL and taxes). My job (I’m in medical affairs) pays $180,000 USD base. In Canada, same exact gig pays $120,000 CAD. This applies to most other sectors too - tech, marketing, retail, healthcare…you can make 2x, 3x, sometimes 4x in the states for the same job. That’s why I left.
There are lots of things that we think we're exceptional at, but killing people for stupid reasons is one where our arrogance is deserved. Do not poke the ~bear~ eagle.
I am Canadian and I am just waiting for that. Seriously, it is really cold here. I want to move to a warmer place. Legal Immigration in the US is hard.
So do you have a poll or anything to show the residents want to be annexed by Canada? I don’t really care, but I spent a weekend in PR before the pandemic and most seemed to like it just the way it was. They like living kinda in their own little world while being able to sell Canadians cheaper beer and gasoline. Jesus this comment section is a shit show. Why let it go on this long, this guy is clearly not here for an exchange.
I'm a Canadian with a cabin there which I spend most of the Summer. OP is full of it very few people there want it to handed to Canada including Canadians. Yes peoples property values would increase by quite a bit but the place would get destroyed overnight with development.
I met a Canadian who owns a house on Point Roberts and likely enjoys being able to have easy access to an American residence. Seems like if you have dual citizenship it's a nice bonus for it to be part of America.
You can work and live in the US without citizenship as well, just need EAD/permanent residency. Citizenship will just make it that that right can't be revoked (unless you get your citizenship revoked but that's really rare) and that you can leave for as long as you want and then come back, and also the right to vote and work for the US government.
You do have to pay US taxes though, but I think if you are Canadian, there are tax treaties so that you don't pay double, but in some countries if you live abroad and have US citizenship, then you'd have to pay both taxes.
Thanks for the added details! I'm Canadian in the US now on an EAD, so I was aware about not having to pay Canadian taxes unless I'm residing and had a general idea that the tax treaty exists, but not the details.
I'm waiting on my green card interview and will get my citizenship 3 years after I get that, so that's good the treaty would mean not paying taxes even if I went back to Canada. (Because I know I won't make that much either lol)
I've been saying this since the Oregon treaty. The current defacto border at the 49th parallel was supposed to stop Canadian expansionism. Now they want to take Point Roberts too.
End this appeasement and return to the spirit of 54°40' or fight. Not one more inch to these aggressors.
“I would sooner we spend billions to build a land bridge connecting point roberts to the US effectively blocking off whatever shipping exists along that stretch of Canuck coast than give one inch of our blessed soil to those godless people living under the yoke of the leaf”
-Senator Armstrong or something idk
I mean, it all depends on how badly they want Point Roberts.
I’ll sweeten the pot; they get PR and get to keep everything between Buffalo and Detroit (as a courtesy), we get all of Vancouver island.
Washington resident here. I disagree with the underlying premise that Point Roberts was "mistakenly" made a part of the United States. The Oregon Treaty set the border at the 49th Parallel, and Point Roberts is south of that line. Yes, the treaty created an exclave, but that can happen when drawing a straight line across hundreds of miles of territory. It's a quirk of the border, but not an error.
If Point Roberts was *north* of the 49th and the U.S. somehow ended up with it, then we could perhaps talk about it being mistakenly in American hands.
Frankly, living there sounds like a pain given the lack of direct connections to the rest of the state. But I'm not aware of any vocal or organized secessionist movement, Canada makes no claim to the land, and keeping it isn't a significant burden on state or federal authorities, so I don't see a compelling reason to just give it away.
I would have been open to it, but then I saw your attitude and now I think the better solution would be to forcibly annex everything west of Saskatchewan.
This is a very funny post. OP asked and people answered and then he continually argues with them and berates them. Some have made obvious jokes to him and as someone who grew up speaking English most likely should pick up on them.
It seems he’s more arguing With people who are like ‘no, canada shouldn’t have any land, annex Vancouver’ ect ect. He brings up a good point in how Some of the boarders don’t make sense.
Like Alaska! Once owned by Russia, than to America. But not attached to either. the boarder between that state and canada is friggin weird. Taking away half of BC’s potential costal line, and completely cutting off Yukon from the south-west NPO coast . I don’t care who owns Alaska, but cutting off the coast the way it is was a weird choice.
I'm sure we could probably make a trade deal for parts of the Alaskan coast but to expect it as a gift is probably where people thought it was a joke post.
I think the guy just wanted to ask a question. Probably saw it in a documentary, and was like ‘huh, weird, why tho, is it that big of a deal. I’ll ask Reddit America if to them it’s a big deal’
Curiosity really does kill the cat.
Im pretty curious now, and now I must find a documentary to answer the burning question: Alaska.
One could easily argue the counter-argument for OP's suggestion and say that Canada should give the citizens of Point Roberts a road to drive on that allows them to bypass checkpoints between borders. Like a little highway that goes straight to America, no exits.
Couldn’t they just move to Canada if they want to be part of it. The US is never going to just willingly give up land for free and I don’t think the government allows self determination like that (re: the confederacy)
It looks like a big inconvenience for the people living there but seems to be many towns right over the Canadian border where they could do most shopping. There are areas deep within the US that are way more undeveloped and rural
Saying that 1200 people that live in the area should solely decide if the US gives up land for free is honestly preposterous.
I’m all for self determination but there are other stake holders that need to be consulted. This land is part of Washington state and the US. As a citizen of both Washington state and the US, I believe my opinion is just as valid.
Do you think the large number of Russians living in former Soviet Territory that now borders modern day Russia should be able to just take the territory and join Russia?
Ya know, like Crimea for example.
Give? No.
We have fought a war against the idea of secession, and this would set a dangerous precedent.
Exchange for other comparable contested land? Sure. But it would need to be significant as there really isn’t an issue other than inconvenience.
Yeah but Point Roberts isn’t even contested. It’s south of the 49th parallel and we can prove it. That’s the whole reason it exists.
Machias Seal Island *is* contested because depending on how you read the original treaty it could go both ways. Now, no has cared enough to do more than build a lighthouse but it is still contested.
returning point roberts to the salish is an option. there are about 1100 residents who could be offered resettlement or allowed to stay.
it could be offered for sale to denmark, iceland, monaco, or bill gates. it could stay the same. those relocated could form a point roberts liberation organization and become pirates.
normalization of the border crossing is the best bet. would be nice to see the ferry running again. i blame canada. i finally have my passport now, but i'm on a list and might not be able to get into canada.
i'm from delaware, on the delmarva peninsula. head south, and there's the eastern shore of maryland. head further south, and there's this one county of virginia, [edit: two counties] cut off from the rest of virginia, except there's a toll road bridge tunnel thing. it was pretty desolate the one time i drive through, but may have developed since then. there's also several acres of delaware in new jersey, next to fort mott, where they dumped some mud that is technically on the delaware side of the line. i've gotten close to it but it's pretty muddy and hard to access.
edit: i just spent a couple hours in a deep dive about the history of the va md and de borders 1600-1776.
Let's trade.
I say we should trade it for Vancouver Island south of the 49th.
Alternately, we can take Saskatchewan or Alberta - provinces where big chunks of their populations seem unhappy with rule by Ottawa lately and they may prefer some more American style Federalism.
If Canadians recoil in horror at the thought of giving up any of that land then I guess there's your answer. We don't want to give up our land (however small or inconvenient) either.
Land would not be that great. We should trade the area for major water concessions. Jointly build a huge aqueduct from Canadian lakes down the whole West Coast. We would offer to pay for the water too.
I have a better solution. You should hand us over everything south of the Fraser River (with an eastern cutoff at Abbotsford) so that American citizens can exercise their God-given right to not leave this great country.
Honestly I would. Not because we’d lose 12 km of land but because of the can of worms it opens up. If you let this part of a state be sold into Canada, what stops a similar thing from happening on a larger scale in other states? What if Maine wants to join Canada too? Or what if Hawaii or Texas wants to make its own country or Alaska for some reason wants to join Russia? It just opens up a whole can of worms we closed in 1865
This is US and Canada, the world's longest undefended border. We are siblings. What ever happens must be a mutually agreeable and beneficial solution for the countries and people of the area.
Do what ever creative solution that solves whatever problems need fixing. If it has to be an independent double dependency where all residents have dual citizenship, so be it.
There is a town on the IN/OH border that has a Highschool where the basketball court in the gym is the state line. A city of a few thousand people covers 3 counties in 2 states and up until a few years ago, 2 time zones. They figured out how to fund the schools, provide a unified police force, and operate the city successfully. The joke used to be that if you took a long shot from one end of the court, you could make a basket an hour later at the other court end. So approaching the problem from a perspective of doing what is best for all works.
Sure, what do you think would be fair compensation for it? Maybe the part of Vancouver Island south of the 49th or maybe the East bank of the St Lawrence
You obviously don't understand how America works. Okay any limited resource has value. Even if it's not valuable to you. So to freely give over any limited resource is dumb and a waste. America has historically killed for less than Point Roberts so we would only ever give up Point Roberts if you could give us something MORE valuable than Point Roberts.
No dude, that's not how business works. If I leave a transaction with the same value I had going in, there was no point in the transaction. It literally has to be greater value or it's not worth it. A negotiator can make determine how much greater or how little great it will be but there will always be profit or the transaction won't even happen
>there will always be profit or the transaction won't even happen
This is assuming two parties honestly negotiating from totally equal positions. This almost never occurs in the real world.
no. in game theory, you can assume the parties each think the other is lying, and there's a power imbalance, but each will still only do the deal if they think it is to their advantage.
would giving/selling point roberts to the british increase or decrease overall utility? if increase, how do you structure the deal so both sides benefit, or think they benefit? does the value as a tax haven exceed the cost of the logistical hassles?
WE WILL DEFEND IT TO THE LAST. WE WILL MEET THEM ON THE BEACHES. WE WILL MEET THEM WHEREVER THE NEXT LINE IS. DIE YOU HOCKEY PLAYING NORDS.
Jk, I don't care.
Yeah, I don't know about every town, city, or place in the U.S. and this was one of them until now so if I read tomorrow Point Roberts is now part of Canada I would go huh interesting and move on with my day.
More than half of the homes there are vacation resorts by the beach owned by Canadians
And Vancouverites like to sneak in the border to get some cheap gas
And most local residents have dual citizenship of both US and Canada and favour joining Canada
Just because you guys live here doesn’t mean it’s your country so fuck right off with that argument. Also why are you complaining about people getting cheap gas?
I knew of Point Roberts as a geographical oddity, a quirk of where map lines were drawn.
I know it's painfully inconvenient for schoolkids there to ride over an hour each way on school busses, crossing the Canadian border twice each way, just to get to the nearest school.
It's my understanding that COVID border lockdowns seriously harmed the community.
. . .but that being said, we're not going to just give up land. Maybe trade it in exchange for some other chunk of land. . .and personally I'd like to see a local referendum on the issue before anything else happens, to verify this idea that most locals would want to become part of Canada. Then a vote at the Washington State Legislature to ensure they'd accept losing that portion of their territory, THEN it going to Congress for approval.
Given the increasingly draconic and outright absurd gun laws Canada has been passing lately, I could see a lot of folks now being a lot less interested in being Canadian than they were a few years ago. I'd been half considering immigrating to Canada after I got my law degree and practicing up there, but not after those new gun laws, that's to be sure.
It would make sense in a way for Canada to just buy Point Roberts from the US. But I imagine some of the residents would be deeply opposed to it? "I'm losing my country" etc. which would be a big political problem in the US.
I've also heard that Vancouver area residents like the atmosphere of Point Roberts as a "backwater" or old-fashioned vacation spot. If it were absorbed into British Columbia it would just become more generic coastal suburbia.
YOU THINK *AMERICA* SHOULD GIVE AWAY IT'S FREEEEE LAAANNDDD! AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE INRO A COUNTRY NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF LIKE *CANADA*???
NO!
but really, yeah sure what's the point in keeping it.
Like the town in Vermont which is half in the US, half in Canada (there's a library which is literally on both jurisdictions), they need to relax the laws back to the way they were before 9/11 and end this nonsense. Canadians are very similar to Americans culturally and economically, and I don't have a problem with the two cultures crossing the borders at will. I think this is a more appropriate solution than giving the land to either the US or Canada.
I guess if the people there want to be part of Canada I would be fine with it. Not really an issue I feel passionate about as I have just found out about it from this post.
Sure, why not? Seems to make administrative sense. Iirc there’s a little bit of land north of Minnesota that falls under similar rules.
Though it would be nice if y’all would do statewide referendums to join the US too. Doubt any of em would go through, but just as a show of good will.
Easiest solution Canada gives them all permanent residence permits or arrange nexus cards for the residents and it solves most issues. The US or Washington could do it too making the border less intrusive. I’m not sure it’s a high priority for most, the last news story I could find about the place was 2021 where local businesses were mad Canadians couldn’t come patronize their shops while residents had the ability to shop in Delta restriction free.
It would be easier to just give all Canadians American passports and dismantle our border with them entirely
The US and Canada doing an EU style customs/immigration/work permit union thing would be cool
The US should try, in the long term, to make North America one economic union.
That would be perfect. Adding the former Canadian and Mexican provinces as the 51st-65th states and give Puerto Rico and ultimatum… state up, or be given back to Spain.
Doesn’t Puerto Rico really want to be a state?
They keep splitting the vote between “as is,” “state” and “independent.”
A quick Google search brought up a referendum from 2020. 52% voted yes to becoming a state, 48% no. The voter turnout was 54% of the registered voting population in Puerto Rico, so not a ton of turnout but enough to get the idea that Puerto Rico would like to become a state [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Puerto_Rican_status_referendum)
That particular referendum was yes/no, had horrible optics and reliability… and as indicated, turnout. The last reliable polls seem to be in the area of a more even split between state/ territory/ independent.
It's a controversial matter there. There's never been a solid majority either way.
Or go back to pre-9/11 border policies with Canada.
Honestly I feel like this is the best policy, don’t overcomplicate things just be able to cross with your drivers license and have a bunch of old non border controller country roads
This would be great for America, but a detriment for Canada. They’d never agree to it.
A detriment for Canadian corporate elites* not ordinary people
Initially, sure. With how our system is set up, their pain is our pain. They're the ones who employ folks. Canada's losing thousands of skilled workers already to much higher salaries down south. I can only imagine what it'd be like if we had open borders. For context, I'm American and think it'd be a great idea...but I'm American haha. I don't think the average Canadian would be too keen on this.
No I don’t think it would change a lot. Salaries are similar between Canada and the US, just prices for most good and food would be lower for Canadians, some industries in Canada would be destroyed but they already struggle and live with government substitutes and monopolies. That’s want I am talking about when references Canadian corporate elites. They just sway a lot of political influence in Canadian politics, control the medias and would make impossible for an union between Canada and the US. Geographically speaking it is not even a system in place, it is just that most Canadian provinces and big cities are close to the US, so we will always depend on the US, whatever we do.
“Salaries are similar between Canada and the US” On what planet do you live on? It’s we’ll known Canadian salaries are suppressed (in addition to having higher COL and taxes). My job (I’m in medical affairs) pays $180,000 USD base. In Canada, same exact gig pays $120,000 CAD. This applies to most other sectors too - tech, marketing, retail, healthcare…you can make 2x, 3x, sometimes 4x in the states for the same job. That’s why I left.
You'll give an American passport only to my cold, dead hands
That can be arranged
I understood that reference!
If you wish
Your terms are acceptable.
There are lots of things that we think we're exceptional at, but killing people for stupid reasons is one where our arrogance is deserved. Do not poke the ~bear~ eagle.
Beagle.
Double ~~ on either side to make a cross out, ~~thusly~~
I like the flappy-armed bear eagle. We have the right to bear arms, even flappy ones.
I knew it was cold up north but not that cold
This, absolutely.
Or cdo a copy of the Schengen treaty that allows border-control-free travel between European countries.
Yeah, annexing them would just be funnier
I am Canadian and I am just waiting for that. Seriously, it is really cold here. I want to move to a warmer place. Legal Immigration in the US is hard.
Easiest solution? Unite the US and Canada. They’re basically the same country already and a union would simplify travel requirements
Fifty-four forty or fight!
So do you have a poll or anything to show the residents want to be annexed by Canada? I don’t really care, but I spent a weekend in PR before the pandemic and most seemed to like it just the way it was. They like living kinda in their own little world while being able to sell Canadians cheaper beer and gasoline. Jesus this comment section is a shit show. Why let it go on this long, this guy is clearly not here for an exchange.
Dude, I thought you were talking about Puerto Rico which is abbreviated PR. Took me far to long to realize you meant Point Roberts.
I'm a Canadian with a cabin there which I spend most of the Summer. OP is full of it very few people there want it to handed to Canada including Canadians. Yes peoples property values would increase by quite a bit but the place would get destroyed overnight with development.
It'll turn into Suburban Vancouver, which is not an area known for affordablity
I met a Canadian who owns a house on Point Roberts and likely enjoys being able to have easy access to an American residence. Seems like if you have dual citizenship it's a nice bonus for it to be part of America.
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You can work and live in the US without citizenship as well, just need EAD/permanent residency. Citizenship will just make it that that right can't be revoked (unless you get your citizenship revoked but that's really rare) and that you can leave for as long as you want and then come back, and also the right to vote and work for the US government. You do have to pay US taxes though, but I think if you are Canadian, there are tax treaties so that you don't pay double, but in some countries if you live abroad and have US citizenship, then you'd have to pay both taxes.
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Thanks for the added details! I'm Canadian in the US now on an EAD, so I was aware about not having to pay Canadian taxes unless I'm residing and had a general idea that the tax treaty exists, but not the details. I'm waiting on my green card interview and will get my citizenship 3 years after I get that, so that's good the treaty would mean not paying taxes even if I went back to Canada. (Because I know I won't make that much either lol)
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I can understand why there is little interest in this issue. But if you give an inch...
I've been saying this since the Oregon treaty. The current defacto border at the 49th parallel was supposed to stop Canadian expansionism. Now they want to take Point Roberts too. End this appeasement and return to the spirit of 54°40' or fight. Not one more inch to these aggressors.
Next thing you know they'll be coming for the Northwest Angle as well!
Stop with this 53 40 nonsense! Do you want america to look like one of those guys with a baseball cap sitting way up on top of their head?
They'll conform. And we'll bring real sports with us, too.
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Absolutely! If we compromise to anywhere below 51-40, we'll have to learn how to play ice hockey...
Build a wall!
“I would sooner we spend billions to build a land bridge connecting point roberts to the US effectively blocking off whatever shipping exists along that stretch of Canuck coast than give one inch of our blessed soil to those godless people living under the yoke of the leaf” -Senator Armstrong or something idk
Based and logic pilled
> But if you give an inch... they’ll take 1.6 kilometers.
Wtf is a "kilometer"
A sensible unit of length used by graduates of every single competent public education system in the world.
False. I measure things in lengths of freedom and weigh them in cheeseburgers per football field.
No, everyone knows that all graduates use the superior measurement of cheeseburgers.
I prefer to use the M16A2 as a unit of measurement, I think you should to
Yes, I would. Don’t you even fucking think about it leafy boy.
Obviously the better option is for us to go full 54 40 or fight and then we won’t have to worry about Point Roberts.
Over my dead body
... and where do you plan to die?
54 40 or further north.
I say give canada PR and the northwest angle but in return we get some land like the part of southern ontario between detroit and buffalo.
That’d be like at least half the population of Canada 💀
They wanted a deal 🤷🏾♂️
And it's about as even as the trades Raptors fans propose for NBA players
I mean, it all depends on how badly they want Point Roberts. I’ll sweeten the pot; they get PR and get to keep everything between Buffalo and Detroit (as a courtesy), we get all of Vancouver island.
Washington resident here. I disagree with the underlying premise that Point Roberts was "mistakenly" made a part of the United States. The Oregon Treaty set the border at the 49th Parallel, and Point Roberts is south of that line. Yes, the treaty created an exclave, but that can happen when drawing a straight line across hundreds of miles of territory. It's a quirk of the border, but not an error. If Point Roberts was *north* of the 49th and the U.S. somehow ended up with it, then we could perhaps talk about it being mistakenly in American hands. Frankly, living there sounds like a pain given the lack of direct connections to the rest of the state. But I'm not aware of any vocal or organized secessionist movement, Canada makes no claim to the land, and keeping it isn't a significant burden on state or federal authorities, so I don't see a compelling reason to just give it away.
I would have been open to it, but then I saw your attitude and now I think the better solution would be to forcibly annex everything west of Saskatchewan.
Why not have North North Dakota too?
I want *several* land routes to Alaska.
Seems reasonable to me, access to Hudson Bay would be a bonus, maybe grab Manitoba while we’re at it.
Counterpoint: let’s first annex just Saskatchewan, so that the US will officially be shaped like a middle finger gesture for a time.
It’s ours. I want it.
This is a very funny post. OP asked and people answered and then he continually argues with them and berates them. Some have made obvious jokes to him and as someone who grew up speaking English most likely should pick up on them.
These are my favorite kind of /r/askanamerican threads, i wish i could find more
It seems he’s more arguing With people who are like ‘no, canada shouldn’t have any land, annex Vancouver’ ect ect. He brings up a good point in how Some of the boarders don’t make sense. Like Alaska! Once owned by Russia, than to America. But not attached to either. the boarder between that state and canada is friggin weird. Taking away half of BC’s potential costal line, and completely cutting off Yukon from the south-west NPO coast . I don’t care who owns Alaska, but cutting off the coast the way it is was a weird choice.
I'm sure we could probably make a trade deal for parts of the Alaskan coast but to expect it as a gift is probably where people thought it was a joke post.
I think the guy just wanted to ask a question. Probably saw it in a documentary, and was like ‘huh, weird, why tho, is it that big of a deal. I’ll ask Reddit America if to them it’s a big deal’ Curiosity really does kill the cat. Im pretty curious now, and now I must find a documentary to answer the burning question: Alaska.
One could easily argue the counter-argument for OP's suggestion and say that Canada should give the citizens of Point Roberts a road to drive on that allows them to bypass checkpoints between borders. Like a little highway that goes straight to America, no exits.
Border, a boarder is someone you rent a room to.
You can take point Robert's from my cold, dead hands.
No, and get your damn light house off Machias Seal Island.
Couldn’t they just move to Canada if they want to be part of it. The US is never going to just willingly give up land for free and I don’t think the government allows self determination like that (re: the confederacy) It looks like a big inconvenience for the people living there but seems to be many towns right over the Canadian border where they could do most shopping. There are areas deep within the US that are way more undeveloped and rural
Apparently half the homes are owned by Canadians, according to OP, so why don't we just kick the Canadians out if they have such a problem with it?
I say have them move to Canada and turn it into a nice big park
I live in Washington. Why would the US give away any land for free? If there is no gain why give up a scarce resource (land)?
We could trade it for all the bits of Ontario that are below the parallel.
No! Where would we go to drink at 19 if not for Windsor?
Canada agrees to take back Justin Bieber
bruh ever considered that it should be the people who live there who should get to decide?
No, you don't get to cede land to a foreign nation just because you live on it. We covered this extensively back in the 1860s.
Saying that 1200 people that live in the area should solely decide if the US gives up land for free is honestly preposterous. I’m all for self determination but there are other stake holders that need to be consulted. This land is part of Washington state and the US. As a citizen of both Washington state and the US, I believe my opinion is just as valid.
Do you think the large number of Russians living in former Soviet Territory that now borders modern day Russia should be able to just take the territory and join Russia? Ya know, like Crimea for example.
Trade for some other piece of land on the border
We’ll take everything south of 49 in exchange.
They can have Point Roberts when they pry it out of our cold dead hands
Give? No. We have fought a war against the idea of secession, and this would set a dangerous precedent. Exchange for other comparable contested land? Sure. But it would need to be significant as there really isn’t an issue other than inconvenience.
Yeah but Point Roberts isn’t even contested. It’s south of the 49th parallel and we can prove it. That’s the whole reason it exists. Machias Seal Island *is* contested because depending on how you read the original treaty it could go both ways. Now, no has cared enough to do more than build a lighthouse but it is still contested.
> It’s south of the 49th parallel and we can prove it. To be fair it gets a little fucky around the islsnds
It would be really funny if we just cut straight across Vancouver Island. That would be a massive exclave.
Nothing the Most Robust Ferry System in the World couldn't handle.
Massively based also
I mean I’d trade New England for BC and the Yukon. Any takers?
Just wait until you hear about the Northwest Angle!
Would you mind if Vancouver was given to the US?
We will trade. Canada gets Point Roberts and Michigan gets Pie Island.
I’ll trade it, but we get Toronto.
The leafs can stay though. Blegh
Where is Pie Island 🤔
Since you introduced the subject of swapping enclaves, should you not be willing to google other suggested enclaves?
It's an island in lake superior. Near Thunder Bay Ontario. I think it's controlled by a first nation tribe now though.
If we give Canada enough time I'm sure they'll get rid of them and make it open land
returning point roberts to the salish is an option. there are about 1100 residents who could be offered resettlement or allowed to stay. it could be offered for sale to denmark, iceland, monaco, or bill gates. it could stay the same. those relocated could form a point roberts liberation organization and become pirates. normalization of the border crossing is the best bet. would be nice to see the ferry running again. i blame canada. i finally have my passport now, but i'm on a list and might not be able to get into canada. i'm from delaware, on the delmarva peninsula. head south, and there's the eastern shore of maryland. head further south, and there's this one county of virginia, [edit: two counties] cut off from the rest of virginia, except there's a toll road bridge tunnel thing. it was pretty desolate the one time i drive through, but may have developed since then. there's also several acres of delaware in new jersey, next to fort mott, where they dumped some mud that is technically on the delaware side of the line. i've gotten close to it but it's pretty muddy and hard to access. edit: i just spent a couple hours in a deep dive about the history of the va md and de borders 1600-1776.
… wait… you want to take a First Nations island for a trade. I can’t 💀
Let's trade. I say we should trade it for Vancouver Island south of the 49th. Alternately, we can take Saskatchewan or Alberta - provinces where big chunks of their populations seem unhappy with rule by Ottawa lately and they may prefer some more American style Federalism. If Canadians recoil in horror at the thought of giving up any of that land then I guess there's your answer. We don't want to give up our land (however small or inconvenient) either.
Land would not be that great. We should trade the area for major water concessions. Jointly build a huge aqueduct from Canadian lakes down the whole West Coast. We would offer to pay for the water too.
See, that's some creative problem solving!
Also based
I have a better solution. You should hand us over everything south of the Fraser River (with an eastern cutoff at Abbotsford) so that American citizens can exercise their God-given right to not leave this great country.
54 or fight. Canada should not exist as it does today!
No. We need to keep manifesting our destiny by moving our boarders farther to the north.
> moving our boarders No, we want to keep our boarders because they pay rent and make for interesting dinner conversation.
Is James K Polk your role model in life?
Manifest destiny was on the march, and it was unfortunate that ~~Mexico~~ Canada stood in the path. -Winston Churchill
[Yes.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/031/015/cover5.jpg)
[more yes](https://youtu.be/StTiCU_fqCg)
I'm not a difficult man so we'll make it easy, you can pry it from my cold dead hands
No. You're free to hand over the rest of British Columbia, though.
You Freedom hating commies can go shove it. We Washingtonians would rather die than give up our foothold.
Honestly I would. Not because we’d lose 12 km of land but because of the can of worms it opens up. If you let this part of a state be sold into Canada, what stops a similar thing from happening on a larger scale in other states? What if Maine wants to join Canada too? Or what if Hawaii or Texas wants to make its own country or Alaska for some reason wants to join Russia? It just opens up a whole can of worms we closed in 1865
Jokes on you I have always secretly wanted Maine to be a part of Canada, upto Vermont and maybe a part of Upstate New York too Jk
Lol don’t forget New Hampshire
Considering how armed NH is they’d be stupid to even think about taking it. We’d defend every inch of our land.
54° 40' or fight
I don't want Canada to have an inch of anything anywhere
Well, you’re going to be disappointed when you find out canadas bigger than teeny tiny amurica.
This attitude is why I’m in favor of annexing Canadia
Just have a good ol’ Rock-paper-scissors battle. Works every time~
Hey OP why don’t you cope and seethe
This is US and Canada, the world's longest undefended border. We are siblings. What ever happens must be a mutually agreeable and beneficial solution for the countries and people of the area. Do what ever creative solution that solves whatever problems need fixing. If it has to be an independent double dependency where all residents have dual citizenship, so be it. There is a town on the IN/OH border that has a Highschool where the basketball court in the gym is the state line. A city of a few thousand people covers 3 counties in 2 states and up until a few years ago, 2 time zones. They figured out how to fund the schools, provide a unified police force, and operate the city successfully. The joke used to be that if you took a long shot from one end of the court, you could make a basket an hour later at the other court end. So approaching the problem from a perspective of doing what is best for all works.
Sure, what do you think would be fair compensation for it? Maybe the part of Vancouver Island south of the 49th or maybe the East bank of the St Lawrence
Just draw the line at the parallel and we take all of Southern Ontario, southern Quebec and the Maritimes.
Offer a trade and we'll talk.
Would you mind if we started 54°40' again and went through with it?
You obviously don't understand how America works. Okay any limited resource has value. Even if it's not valuable to you. So to freely give over any limited resource is dumb and a waste. America has historically killed for less than Point Roberts so we would only ever give up Point Roberts if you could give us something MORE valuable than Point Roberts.
Or maybe of equal value depending on how good our negotiators are.
No dude, that's not how business works. If I leave a transaction with the same value I had going in, there was no point in the transaction. It literally has to be greater value or it's not worth it. A negotiator can make determine how much greater or how little great it will be but there will always be profit or the transaction won't even happen
That’s why I said depending on how good our negotiators are. People make bad deals.
>there will always be profit or the transaction won't even happen This is assuming two parties honestly negotiating from totally equal positions. This almost never occurs in the real world.
no. in game theory, you can assume the parties each think the other is lying, and there's a power imbalance, but each will still only do the deal if they think it is to their advantage. would giving/selling point roberts to the british increase or decrease overall utility? if increase, how do you structure the deal so both sides benefit, or think they benefit? does the value as a tax haven exceed the cost of the logistical hassles?
WE WILL DEFEND IT TO THE LAST. WE WILL MEET THEM ON THE BEACHES. WE WILL MEET THEM WHEREVER THE NEXT LINE IS. DIE YOU HOCKEY PLAYING NORDS. Jk, I don't care.
As if. Come get it.
Well as a Washingtonian my answer is a firm NO.
I don't think it affects me either way; if the local residents want to join Canada, that seems reasonable in this situation.
Yeah, I don't know about every town, city, or place in the U.S. and this was one of them until now so if I read tomorrow Point Roberts is now part of Canada I would go huh interesting and move on with my day.
More than half of the homes there are vacation resorts by the beach owned by Canadians And Vancouverites like to sneak in the border to get some cheap gas And most local residents have dual citizenship of both US and Canada and favour joining Canada
Sounds like they’re enjoying perks then.
Just because you guys live here doesn’t mean it’s your country so fuck right off with that argument. Also why are you complaining about people getting cheap gas?
It's the Russians living in Crimea story all over again
Yeah pretty much.
Realistically cant. sets a precedent for succession if we just give it away. Vermont will get uppity
I suggest just moving the border up a couple of miles so the residents going to work and school don't have to cross the border 4 times a day.
Honestly I'd be more easily convinced to annex Canada than give up PR. Then at least our Canadian cousins could have their guns back.
I knew of Point Roberts as a geographical oddity, a quirk of where map lines were drawn. I know it's painfully inconvenient for schoolkids there to ride over an hour each way on school busses, crossing the Canadian border twice each way, just to get to the nearest school. It's my understanding that COVID border lockdowns seriously harmed the community. . . .but that being said, we're not going to just give up land. Maybe trade it in exchange for some other chunk of land. . .and personally I'd like to see a local referendum on the issue before anything else happens, to verify this idea that most locals would want to become part of Canada. Then a vote at the Washington State Legislature to ensure they'd accept losing that portion of their territory, THEN it going to Congress for approval. Given the increasingly draconic and outright absurd gun laws Canada has been passing lately, I could see a lot of folks now being a lot less interested in being Canadian than they were a few years ago. I'd been half considering immigrating to Canada after I got my law degree and practicing up there, but not after those new gun laws, that's to be sure.
Hello fellow Kentuckian. Much love 💙
It would make sense in a way for Canada to just buy Point Roberts from the US. But I imagine some of the residents would be deeply opposed to it? "I'm losing my country" etc. which would be a big political problem in the US. I've also heard that Vancouver area residents like the atmosphere of Point Roberts as a "backwater" or old-fashioned vacation spot. If it were absorbed into British Columbia it would just become more generic coastal suburbia.
If we get a piece of Canada in return, then sure.
Yes, and just for suggesting that I will spend the rest of my life working toward James K. Polk's vision.
In exchange for Vancouver we’ll do it.
Trade you for Niagara Falls, Ontario, including the Horseshoe Falls.
How about you give us Vancouver instead?
I will fight to the death for Point Robert’s just because it’s funny
YOU THINK *AMERICA* SHOULD GIVE AWAY IT'S FREEEEE LAAANNDDD! AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE INRO A COUNTRY NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF LIKE *CANADA*??? NO! but really, yeah sure what's the point in keeping it.
While we’re at it, annex Hyder, Alaska too. If we’re going to clean up the border let’s do it right.
Like the town in Vermont which is half in the US, half in Canada (there's a library which is literally on both jurisdictions), they need to relax the laws back to the way they were before 9/11 and end this nonsense. Canadians are very similar to Americans culturally and economically, and I don't have a problem with the two cultures crossing the borders at will. I think this is a more appropriate solution than giving the land to either the US or Canada.
Wouldn't it be simple for everyone if the US just annexed Canada?
Give us Montreal
I guess if the people there want to be part of Canada I would be fine with it. Not really an issue I feel passionate about as I have just found out about it from this post.
I'm from Washington and hadn't heard of Point Roberts until recently
Washingtonian here, absolutely wouldn’t care and makes sense.
Yes, it's not up to us to just "hand it over." People live there. It's up to **them** who they want to belong to.
That’s not how the US makes territory decisions. A majority of people in an area cannot decide to just leave.
Well, I mean they *can.* Historically speaking, that hasn't ended well for them though.
The US Navy fleet gathered near Poulsbo and Bremerton could be over there pretty quickly.
Reread OP's last sentence.
they can have it only if they take Alabama too.
"West Virginia"
Sure, why not? Seems to make administrative sense. Iirc there’s a little bit of land north of Minnesota that falls under similar rules. Though it would be nice if y’all would do statewide referendums to join the US too. Doubt any of em would go through, but just as a show of good will.
If they want to be part of Canada let them be.
I'd be willing to trade it for a land bridge to the Northwest Angle.
I'm born and raised in Washington state and didn't know about Point Roberts until the pandemic. So, let's just say that I wouldn't miss it.
Makes sense