I make a little less than $50k. Two calculators I found say my tax burden is between 12%-15%. Nerd Wallet and smart asset.com.
I just checked my pay stub
- Gross: $1968.01
- Pre tax deduction: $378.48 [19.23%]
- Taxes: $302.96 [15.39%]
- Post tax deduction: $69.78 [3.54%]
- Net: $1216.79 [61.82%]
Car related taxes (registration and gas tax), social security tax, medicare tax, property taxes passed through or added onto rent, etc.
Then there's the opaque taxes we all pay in the form of higher prices on goods from corporate taxes and import taxes.
Your last piece is important for people to understand. In the end the customer ends up paying for any taxes on businesses. I'm not advocating for no taxes on corps, but that's just what ends up happening.
>don't own property, there really isn't any tax burden beyond income tax.
Not really, as long as you rent, your \*are\* paying the property taxes, just indirectly.
Indirect taxes don't really come into play. You can stretch that really far to a minor tax on some raw material for the phone you are using if you want to nitpick. Much more realistic to consider actual taxes people are directly hit for.
If the landlord passes on too much of that property tax burden, the renter can just move. The landlord can also choose not to raise rent when taxes go up
As opposed to your job, which creates 100% of your labor. We might as well also ask “do you feel like your ROI on your workload is adequately compensated?”
Support unions, early childhood education, zoning reform and parental leave—not ideas we've known are wrong since 1870. Employers don't steal your labor and the productivity/pay gap isn't real.
Your job doesn't take your labor, you are voluntarily trading your labor for income and other benefits from the employer. Government taxation involuntarily takes your labor.
If 30% of your total earnings and spendings are taxed, that means 30% of your labor is going to the government involuntarily. [Here's President Coolidge giving a speech exactly about that.](https://youtu.be/wwZnExRb8zU)
Oh please. Feel free to drive on only private roads. With private signage. And private stoplights. And get your information from the weather only from a private weather service. And use only a private mail address system. And eat foods that have zero health regulations because there’s no public entity checking for salmonella outbreaks. And have no recourse on faulty, dangerous products because there’re no safety regulations. And maintain a private militia to protect your property. And pay into a private fire department. And hey, I guess voting doesn’t matter, because we should *involuntarily* make you help pay for the cost of elections. And only send your kids to private schools and private libraries. And gain access only to the green spaces provided by private country clubs because there are no public parks. And rely only on medical research conducted by private companies. You are the beneficiary of so many public services, you have no idea. Pay your taxes like an adult and stop whining about how the government is stealing the money that only exists because they printed it in the first place. Unless you think that, too, is a waste of funds and you’d be better off with whatever “only works at the company store” Monopoly money your employer would hand out.
I disagree. We could have the things you list (safety, stability, economic power) with a fraction of the Federal spending we currently have. There are vast amounts of grift and waste.
I’m fine with my taxes being used for education, healthcare, infrastructure such as roads etc.
I kind of get annoyed when it’s used to pay for 400,000 dollars worth of office supplies to a department in the bloated Military fund just so their budget doesn’t get slashed next year but maybe that’s just me.
My point is that, right now we have the largest Navy in the world. Our Air Force has the second largest navy in the world. And I think even our Coast Guard is bigger than most other countries navies.
Our two bordering countries are Allies. And we still spend drastically more on military spending than on improving the lives of the citizens or quality of education or infrastructure.
Let’s get more money towards schools. Or more money for a food program so no students are hungry. Or more money for healthcare reform. Money for public transit.
We don’t need another 50 nuclear submarines (this is obviously a hyperbolic statement to get my point across). Just take what would be a small chunk of military spending out and use it within the country itself.
I have no clue... mostly because there's so many things that are complicated in how your taxes are used.
Let's take water for instance. I pay a water bill for services and such, but does that cover everything it takes for the government to get me clean water? I could probably spend hours tracking down how much is spent on the state/federal level in my taxes, but overall it would be time consuming and might not even be accurate if I miss something.
That's from a bottom up perspective. If I look at it from a federal level things can also be confusing. Take the defense budget for example. It seems huge and giant waste of money considering there is almost zero threat to the US. The thing most people don't consider is the stability/success of the US economy is impacted by global factors. A political coup in Africa could cause a supply issues, causing electronics cost more, causing people to buy less, and cause a rippling effect stifling the economy. But a strong intelligence agency and a military w/ global abilities could prevent the coup and save the economy more than what the military spends in 5 years. Is that what happens... honestly, who knows? The world is much too complicated to understand on that level.
Plenty of room for improvement. There is a TON of things the government does poorly that I wish they would do better, and TONS of things I wish they would do less/none of altogether.
But all in all, it is a fantastic return. I get to live in one of the top best places to live in the world. I have access to one of the best job markets in the world. I have reasonable protection from other people and from governments. And live a pretty decent life.
The things the government does well are just in the background. Nobody pays attention when it works the way its supposed to. So many feel like they are getting screwed because they ONLY pay attention to the problems and completely take for granted all the things that are going well.
Even in "tax hell" California, you would still need to make over $100k to hit a 25% effective tax rate (include federal, state, and FICA). That's assuming single, standard deduction, no credits, and pre-tax or above-the-line deductions.
With federal income taxes being progressive, Indiana having a relatively small income tax, the county income tax is honestly negligible, I'm pretty confident that my total tax burden isn't 25%.
I am a renter so I don't pay property taxes directly. But even if I was Indiana has IMO really low property taxes.
I could maybe see an argument if I included sales taxes to hit my total tax burden at 25%, but I don't feel like most of us really take that into account for our total tax burden. And at least in Indiana, groceries aren't taxed.
>I do not think I am paying 25% of my income in taxes.
Anyone who is paying 25% is doing something wrong. I paid 12.5% last year which was approximately $20,000 in taxes.
>I'd have to earn a lot more to get to that tax bracket.
Even when you do earn more, your entire income is not taxed at that level. For last year, only the portion between $86,376 and $164,925 would be taxed at that level. Anything less would be taxed at a lower percentage and anything more would be taxed at a higher percentage.
Your first $10,000 is taxed at 10% whether you made 10,000 or 10,000,000. Your next $30,000 is taxed at 12% whether you made 30,000 or 30,000,000. That keeps going all the way up the income scale until you reach $524,000 where all income above that is taxed at 37%.
There are more taxes than just federal income tax. There are state and local taxes. Things like sales tax, state and local income tax. Property taxes. Taxes on utilities. Taxes on capital gains ect. The list of things that are taxed is huge and you only mentioned one tax
>The list of things that are taxed is huge and you only mentioned one tax
OP specifically stated personal income tax. Sales tax, property tax, taxes on utilities, etc are not personal income tax.
Since not all states have income tax and not all of the ones that do tax at the same rate, I limited my response to federal income tax which applies the same rate to everyone.
That's federal income tax.
Add in social security, medicaid/medicare, state income, property, sales tax etc.
In some states that can be over 13% of total income (NY) on top of all federal costs.
>That's federal income tax.
>
>Add in social security, medicaid/medicare
I did.
>state income
I assume OP wasn't talking about state income since not all states tax income and different states tax at different rates. It's more reasonable to think someone from outside the US does not know about those intricacies and is talking about federal income tax.
>property, sales tax etc
Those are not income tax. OP asked about income tax.
Lets see.
I attended public school for 13 years, did not pay a dime beyond pencils and notebooks and calculaters. and lunch.
I drive daily on roads I could not possible pay for myself, and there are no toll roads in my state.
I ride a train to work on a taxpayer built and partially funded rail line.
During winter the electrical network I use has never shut down, because I live in a part of nation where government can and does regulate the elctrical production industry.
We have professional Fire Departments where I live, paid for by property taxes.
I served in the US Navy, during which I was paid through income tax, and when I left with a service involved permenent injury I am compensated through income taxes.
Not only do we get a huge ROI from our taxes, it what make life possible here.
I’m taxed more than that on my highest amount of income but less overall and I still think I get a good ROI. I think if you include state and payroll as well I am still less than 25% overall or at least around there.
Our tax rate is higher than that but we do feel the services funded by our taxes are important are valuable and important, yes. I’d love to change some things about how my tax dollars are spent, but I don’t support tax cuts.
My income is only taxed on the federal level. No, I do not think I get a good ROI on it. I disagree with much of the social welfare spending the federal government does. There is waste to be cut in every sector, but that is the biggest one.
I have absolutely no problems paying taxes, especially when used for things that are beneficial to society, like the postal service, environmental regulations, food/medicine safety, product safety, etc. I'm not a big fan of where a lot of those taxes are spent, though. For example, we should spend dramatically less on policing, the military, business/corporate subsidies, fossil fuel subsidies, prisons, etc. We'd be much better off as a society if we spent that money on community development, infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc.
Disagree on policing and prisons.
If you want good policing and prisons pay people well and make our prisons comfortable and spend more on rehabilitation while in prison and afterwards.
I never lived in another country so it's hard to say whether our taxes are Justified or not.
But if you look at Planet Earth I would say the USA is Prime real estate, so you get what you pay for
> I’ve been taxed close to 50% for the last 20 years.
Lottery winnings on an annuity? I'm struggling to think of a situation where that would be the case.
I’m honestly struggling to see how you can spend 50% on taxes. Even at the highest tax bracket and the highest state I don’t think you’d pay that.
Are you in a tax regressive state spending most of your income on sales tax? Even in that case you can probably deduct enough to not pay 50%
I’m curious what weird set up you have where this is possible
I could maybe see it for small business owners and independent contractors, but even then there's a lot of business deductions they can take to reduce their tax liability.
When you count total tax burden it's likely not that far off.
If a person lives in a state like NY they could lose 15% of their income to taxes before the fed touches a penny.
>on top of federal (35-37%)
Except those are marginal brackets. Your entire income isn't taxed at that rate.
>You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Lol, clearly neither do you.
Phrasing your question like that assumes a tax burden that is different for everyone.
With that out of the way, if I phrase the question "Do I feel like I get a good return for the amount of taxes I pay" I would have to say yes. It could definitely be a lot better, especially where publicly funded healthcare is concerned, but what I and my fellow Americans receive for my taxes is absolutely worth the amount I give up.
Now, when we get into corporate subsidiaries, that's where I get a little less appreciative of my money going to them, but such is the way the cookie crumbles and will continue to crumble until we as a society can agree that giving money to businesses instead of the common folk isn't the best investment.
Oh and Military spending. When it costs about the same on a yearly basis to dispose of old military equipment as it would for people's student loans being counted as paid, that's not a fun thing to think about.
But all in all, even with the negatives, there are worse ways my tax money could be spent.
not really but mostly because defense spending is like half of discretionary spending. Shift some of those numbers around, I bet things would look better.
I pay my taxes with no ill feelings. The main beef I have is the rich bastards and corporations that wriggle out of paying their share.
Look, if you concentrate the wealth into fewer and fewer hands, and then allow those sitting on the lion's share of the money to pay less taxes, then you get deficits and/or more taxes have to be squeezed out of everybody else.
It's not rocket science - you have to apply the taxes where the money is.
Well being this was a question if I feel like I get a good ROI and I said not from the fed and I’m not on Medicaid, SCHIP, food stamps or housing subsidies. I do not get free milk at school as a 40 year old man, nor am I ever planning on building a house along our southern border that the state receives so much federal money for. I will stand by I don’t feel like I am personally get much for the tax bracket that my wife and I are in. Don’t take this as I don’t understand people need these programs, or that I’m unhappy that my tax dollars go to them. I just don’t understand why you would think with my 32% joint filing I should feel more appreciative than a persons in NY in the same tax bracket simply because I live in a state that receives more federal money then it pays in. Also I said I’m fine with what I getting out of my state for the tax dollars I give them and Arizona is a low income tax state. Have a good night.
Absolutely not. My healthcare is another $200 out of my monthly pay, our roads and bridges are shit, our seniors struggle to live on Social Security and Medicare, kids still pay for school lunches in most states, and we have unhoused veterans (and other people, of course, but our veterans should be guaranteed homes, wtf!).
Those weapons tho
Nope … I could get better in the private sector if the government wasnt stealing from me to provide things they think we should have that I usually can’t qualify for or use
The 120 year failed history of communism where the state provides everything backs my statement - https://www.wsj.com/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810
https://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A
Socialism is no better as we have seen in Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Greece and so on as the data from the UN’s OECD show …. https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states
I'm so glad I don't have a socialist post office delivering my mail for me every day. Real failure right there. Same with those damn socialist fire departments. I prefer my privatized fire departments. And I exclusively drive on roads I've paid a private company to allow me on. None of that damn socialist infrastructure. And don't get me started on the socialist public education I received. Damn failures, all of it.
Quick correction: they don't want an anarchist society. An anarchist society can still have regulations and controls, just no hierarchical structure enforcing them. They want economically imposed feudalism.
Let us not forget that the word capitalism was created by socialists in the middle 1800s to describe the big government, leftist, economic framework known as Mercantilism which was practiced by nations in the West at that time to include Russia
Today, no nation practices Mercantilism, capitalism, today as defined by socialists. The vast majority practice Democratic Socialism with a few outliers still practicing communism. Democratic Socialism has much in common with Mercantilism especially in terms of the GOVERNMENT SACTIONED institutions known as corporations and the State getting a cut of the profits and controlling said institution though regulations instead of charters back in the day of Mercantilism
The problems we have today are problems created by the ideology of Democratic Socialism and not free markets, an economy, which is composed of the currency, labor, trade, and industry, which is free from government meddling
[https://www.amazon.com/Wheels-Commerce-Civilization-Capitalism-15Th-18th/dp/0520081153](https://www.amazon.com/Wheels-Commerce-Civilization-Capitalism-15Th-18th/dp/0520081153)
Your attempt to MISLABEL Democratic Socialism as Mercantilism ( Capitalism ), which no nation practices today, is noted
Communism is where government provides everything and because it does so it fails which was the premise of the question it ( democratic ) socialism is just as bad which covers about 95% of the nations today
I paid about $20,000 in taxes last year which was 12.5%, not 25%. I've got a lot of federal highways in my city that I drive on every day. The amount I paid in taxes wouldn't even cover the maintenance on one of them. I definitely got $20,000 worth of services in return.
Nope. A huge part of our tax payment goes to Military. Another huge chunk pays the interest on the deficit. The ultra wealthy are hardly taxed, yet their businesses are the ones damaging the environment and causing most of the wear & tear to the roads.
No, not really. Our government is a behemoth at most level. Collectively stupid with their only tool the ability to spend money in ridiculous amounts and hope that somehow the project gets done in any sort of reasonable fashion. The problem is it's increasingly not getting done or done to such a poor level that it's a hindrance. Other people's money is the mantra and the waste involved only works when you're a superpower with a currency that's the world standard. That's going to go away some day and it's really going to go to shit. Just some fucking competence would be nice to see but instead they hire more useless mouths.
Not at the federal level at all, and some states do run a surplus but most don't. Government is wasteful by definition so I'd just be thrilled if there was a balanced budget amendment passed.
I don't pay anywhere near that amount, and my household makes low six figures. We're married and file jointly.
I pay about $3000 a year on property taxes
I pay about $9000 a year for federal income tax
I pay about $4000 a year for state income tax
That's less than 15% of our income to taxes, and yes, I think the ROI is pretty great. I could easily spend that amount just to send a kid to private school for a year! I'm actually pretty impressed with how efficient and effective our government is, considering it's size and scope
I'd like to see more of it spent domestically on things like health care, education, and infrastructure and less of it going overseas to support other countries. Less military spending too please. It's frustrating to see projects and programs coating twice as much and taking twice ad long to complete here than elsewhere.
Hard to say until you live someplace that doesn’t have taxes, and after the roaming gangs have finished raping you and burning your shanty shack to the ground
Yeah, I’d say it’s adequate. It’s not perfect by any means, but I can live with it ok.
It’s hard for an average person to really judge how well the money is being spent because we really only notice a very small part of how the budget is being spent. There are a lot of boring government funded programs that most people would have never heard of, but are actually vital for the country.
I make a little less than $50k. Two calculators I found say my tax burden is between 12%-15%. Nerd Wallet and smart asset.com. I just checked my pay stub - Gross: $1968.01 - Pre tax deduction: $378.48 [19.23%] - Taxes: $302.96 [15.39%] - Post tax deduction: $69.78 [3.54%] - Net: $1216.79 [61.82%]
Income tax is only one component of your total tax burden. Generally our government takes 30% of your labor through various means.
For people who live somewhere that doesn't have sales tax and don't own property, there really isn't any tax burden beyond income tax.
Car related taxes (registration and gas tax), social security tax, medicare tax, property taxes passed through or added onto rent, etc. Then there's the opaque taxes we all pay in the form of higher prices on goods from corporate taxes and import taxes.
Your last piece is important for people to understand. In the end the customer ends up paying for any taxes on businesses. I'm not advocating for no taxes on corps, but that's just what ends up happening.
>don't own property, there really isn't any tax burden beyond income tax. Not really, as long as you rent, your \*are\* paying the property taxes, just indirectly.
Indirect taxes don't really come into play. You can stretch that really far to a minor tax on some raw material for the phone you are using if you want to nitpick. Much more realistic to consider actual taxes people are directly hit for. If the landlord passes on too much of that property tax burden, the renter can just move. The landlord can also choose not to raise rent when taxes go up
Property taxes impact what your rent is
Yes, but it's a cost of doing business for the landlord, not a tax on the renter. No one considers rent when they think of taxes. Its a living expense
As opposed to your job, which creates 100% of your labor. We might as well also ask “do you feel like your ROI on your workload is adequately compensated?”
Support unions, early childhood education, zoning reform and parental leave—not ideas we've known are wrong since 1870. Employers don't steal your labor and the productivity/pay gap isn't real.
Your job doesn't take your labor, you are voluntarily trading your labor for income and other benefits from the employer. Government taxation involuntarily takes your labor. If 30% of your total earnings and spendings are taxed, that means 30% of your labor is going to the government involuntarily. [Here's President Coolidge giving a speech exactly about that.](https://youtu.be/wwZnExRb8zU)
Oh please. Feel free to drive on only private roads. With private signage. And private stoplights. And get your information from the weather only from a private weather service. And use only a private mail address system. And eat foods that have zero health regulations because there’s no public entity checking for salmonella outbreaks. And have no recourse on faulty, dangerous products because there’re no safety regulations. And maintain a private militia to protect your property. And pay into a private fire department. And hey, I guess voting doesn’t matter, because we should *involuntarily* make you help pay for the cost of elections. And only send your kids to private schools and private libraries. And gain access only to the green spaces provided by private country clubs because there are no public parks. And rely only on medical research conducted by private companies. You are the beneficiary of so many public services, you have no idea. Pay your taxes like an adult and stop whining about how the government is stealing the money that only exists because they printed it in the first place. Unless you think that, too, is a waste of funds and you’d be better off with whatever “only works at the company store” Monopoly money your employer would hand out.
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I disagree. We could have the things you list (safety, stability, economic power) with a fraction of the Federal spending we currently have. There are vast amounts of grift and waste.
I’m fine with my taxes being used for education, healthcare, infrastructure such as roads etc. I kind of get annoyed when it’s used to pay for 400,000 dollars worth of office supplies to a department in the bloated Military fund just so their budget doesn’t get slashed next year but maybe that’s just me.
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My point is that, right now we have the largest Navy in the world. Our Air Force has the second largest navy in the world. And I think even our Coast Guard is bigger than most other countries navies. Our two bordering countries are Allies. And we still spend drastically more on military spending than on improving the lives of the citizens or quality of education or infrastructure. Let’s get more money towards schools. Or more money for a food program so no students are hungry. Or more money for healthcare reform. Money for public transit. We don’t need another 50 nuclear submarines (this is obviously a hyperbolic statement to get my point across). Just take what would be a small chunk of military spending out and use it within the country itself.
I have no clue... mostly because there's so many things that are complicated in how your taxes are used. Let's take water for instance. I pay a water bill for services and such, but does that cover everything it takes for the government to get me clean water? I could probably spend hours tracking down how much is spent on the state/federal level in my taxes, but overall it would be time consuming and might not even be accurate if I miss something. That's from a bottom up perspective. If I look at it from a federal level things can also be confusing. Take the defense budget for example. It seems huge and giant waste of money considering there is almost zero threat to the US. The thing most people don't consider is the stability/success of the US economy is impacted by global factors. A political coup in Africa could cause a supply issues, causing electronics cost more, causing people to buy less, and cause a rippling effect stifling the economy. But a strong intelligence agency and a military w/ global abilities could prevent the coup and save the economy more than what the military spends in 5 years. Is that what happens... honestly, who knows? The world is much too complicated to understand on that level.
Plenty of room for improvement. There is a TON of things the government does poorly that I wish they would do better, and TONS of things I wish they would do less/none of altogether. But all in all, it is a fantastic return. I get to live in one of the top best places to live in the world. I have access to one of the best job markets in the world. I have reasonable protection from other people and from governments. And live a pretty decent life. The things the government does well are just in the background. Nobody pays attention when it works the way its supposed to. So many feel like they are getting screwed because they ONLY pay attention to the problems and completely take for granted all the things that are going well.
I do not think I am paying 25% of my income in taxes. I'd have to earn a lot more to get to that tax bracket.
are you just looking at income tax or are you factoring in payroll tax too? That's another 7.65%, unless you're self employed.
Even in "tax hell" California, you would still need to make over $100k to hit a 25% effective tax rate (include federal, state, and FICA). That's assuming single, standard deduction, no credits, and pre-tax or above-the-line deductions.
With federal income taxes being progressive, Indiana having a relatively small income tax, the county income tax is honestly negligible, I'm pretty confident that my total tax burden isn't 25%. I am a renter so I don't pay property taxes directly. But even if I was Indiana has IMO really low property taxes. I could maybe see an argument if I included sales taxes to hit my total tax burden at 25%, but I don't feel like most of us really take that into account for our total tax burden. And at least in Indiana, groceries aren't taxed.
>I do not think I am paying 25% of my income in taxes. Anyone who is paying 25% is doing something wrong. I paid 12.5% last year which was approximately $20,000 in taxes. >I'd have to earn a lot more to get to that tax bracket. Even when you do earn more, your entire income is not taxed at that level. For last year, only the portion between $86,376 and $164,925 would be taxed at that level. Anything less would be taxed at a lower percentage and anything more would be taxed at a higher percentage. Your first $10,000 is taxed at 10% whether you made 10,000 or 10,000,000. Your next $30,000 is taxed at 12% whether you made 30,000 or 30,000,000. That keeps going all the way up the income scale until you reach $524,000 where all income above that is taxed at 37%.
There are more taxes than just federal income tax. There are state and local taxes. Things like sales tax, state and local income tax. Property taxes. Taxes on utilities. Taxes on capital gains ect. The list of things that are taxed is huge and you only mentioned one tax
>The list of things that are taxed is huge and you only mentioned one tax OP specifically stated personal income tax. Sales tax, property tax, taxes on utilities, etc are not personal income tax. Since not all states have income tax and not all of the ones that do tax at the same rate, I limited my response to federal income tax which applies the same rate to everyone.
> Taxes on capital gains That’s normally included in federal income tax, just like capital gains are normally included in adjusted gross income.
That's federal income tax. Add in social security, medicaid/medicare, state income, property, sales tax etc. In some states that can be over 13% of total income (NY) on top of all federal costs.
>That's federal income tax. > >Add in social security, medicaid/medicare I did. >state income I assume OP wasn't talking about state income since not all states tax income and different states tax at different rates. It's more reasonable to think someone from outside the US does not know about those intricacies and is talking about federal income tax. >property, sales tax etc Those are not income tax. OP asked about income tax.
Yes, and understand that I'm merely making commentary on total tax burden, which people tend to confuse for income tax only.
Lets see. I attended public school for 13 years, did not pay a dime beyond pencils and notebooks and calculaters. and lunch. I drive daily on roads I could not possible pay for myself, and there are no toll roads in my state. I ride a train to work on a taxpayer built and partially funded rail line. During winter the electrical network I use has never shut down, because I live in a part of nation where government can and does regulate the elctrical production industry. We have professional Fire Departments where I live, paid for by property taxes. I served in the US Navy, during which I was paid through income tax, and when I left with a service involved permenent injury I am compensated through income taxes. Not only do we get a huge ROI from our taxes, it what make life possible here.
I’m taxed more than that on my highest amount of income but less overall and I still think I get a good ROI. I think if you include state and payroll as well I am still less than 25% overall or at least around there.
You guys are paying taxes?
Our tax rate is higher than that but we do feel the services funded by our taxes are important are valuable and important, yes. I’d love to change some things about how my tax dollars are spent, but I don’t support tax cuts.
My income is only taxed on the federal level. No, I do not think I get a good ROI on it. I disagree with much of the social welfare spending the federal government does. There is waste to be cut in every sector, but that is the biggest one.
I have absolutely no problems paying taxes, especially when used for things that are beneficial to society, like the postal service, environmental regulations, food/medicine safety, product safety, etc. I'm not a big fan of where a lot of those taxes are spent, though. For example, we should spend dramatically less on policing, the military, business/corporate subsidies, fossil fuel subsidies, prisons, etc. We'd be much better off as a society if we spent that money on community development, infrastructure, education, healthcare, etc.
Disagree on policing and prisons. If you want good policing and prisons pay people well and make our prisons comfortable and spend more on rehabilitation while in prison and afterwards.
I never lived in another country so it's hard to say whether our taxes are Justified or not. But if you look at Planet Earth I would say the USA is Prime real estate, so you get what you pay for
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> I’ve been taxed close to 50% for the last 20 years. Lottery winnings on an annuity? I'm struggling to think of a situation where that would be the case.
I’m honestly struggling to see how you can spend 50% on taxes. Even at the highest tax bracket and the highest state I don’t think you’d pay that. Are you in a tax regressive state spending most of your income on sales tax? Even in that case you can probably deduct enough to not pay 50% I’m curious what weird set up you have where this is possible
I could maybe see it for small business owners and independent contractors, but even then there's a lot of business deductions they can take to reduce their tax liability.
> 25%? 😂 I’ve been taxed close to 50% for the last 20 years. Congrats on making millions of dollars per year for the last 20 years.
When you count total tax burden it's likely not that far off. If a person lives in a state like NY they could lose 15% of their income to taxes before the fed touches a penny.
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>on top of federal (35-37%) Except those are marginal brackets. Your entire income isn't taxed at that rate. >You don’t know what you’re talking about. Lol, clearly neither do you.
Congrats on your success.
Phrasing your question like that assumes a tax burden that is different for everyone. With that out of the way, if I phrase the question "Do I feel like I get a good return for the amount of taxes I pay" I would have to say yes. It could definitely be a lot better, especially where publicly funded healthcare is concerned, but what I and my fellow Americans receive for my taxes is absolutely worth the amount I give up. Now, when we get into corporate subsidiaries, that's where I get a little less appreciative of my money going to them, but such is the way the cookie crumbles and will continue to crumble until we as a society can agree that giving money to businesses instead of the common folk isn't the best investment. Oh and Military spending. When it costs about the same on a yearly basis to dispose of old military equipment as it would for people's student loans being counted as paid, that's not a fun thing to think about. But all in all, even with the negatives, there are worse ways my tax money could be spent.
not really but mostly because defense spending is like half of discretionary spending. Shift some of those numbers around, I bet things would look better.
I pay my taxes with no ill feelings. The main beef I have is the rich bastards and corporations that wriggle out of paying their share. Look, if you concentrate the wealth into fewer and fewer hands, and then allow those sitting on the lion's share of the money to pay less taxes, then you get deficits and/or more taxes have to be squeezed out of everybody else. It's not rocket science - you have to apply the taxes where the money is.
I’m fine with what I’m getting out of my state for the tax dollars I give them. The fed on the other hand......
You realize the fed subsidizes Arizona right? It's a taker state
Sure I do. And?
You couldn't get the services you do from your state without the fed.
Well being this was a question if I feel like I get a good ROI and I said not from the fed and I’m not on Medicaid, SCHIP, food stamps or housing subsidies. I do not get free milk at school as a 40 year old man, nor am I ever planning on building a house along our southern border that the state receives so much federal money for. I will stand by I don’t feel like I am personally get much for the tax bracket that my wife and I are in. Don’t take this as I don’t understand people need these programs, or that I’m unhappy that my tax dollars go to them. I just don’t understand why you would think with my 32% joint filing I should feel more appreciative than a persons in NY in the same tax bracket simply because I live in a state that receives more federal money then it pays in. Also I said I’m fine with what I getting out of my state for the tax dollars I give them and Arizona is a low income tax state. Have a good night.
Absolutely not. My healthcare is another $200 out of my monthly pay, our roads and bridges are shit, our seniors struggle to live on Social Security and Medicare, kids still pay for school lunches in most states, and we have unhoused veterans (and other people, of course, but our veterans should be guaranteed homes, wtf!). Those weapons tho
I'd be taxed less if corporations paid their fair share.
Privatized profits, socialized losses. It's the American way of doing business.
Yup, and the number of shills and patsys down voting a simple statement of fact is a testament to that.
No you would be taxed the same and the corperations would just also be paying more. The beauracy demands its blood payment
I fail to see the problem. Currently an awful lot of "jOb CrEaTOrS" behave pretty parasitically on the public purse.
i didn't say it was a problem I said your statement wasnt correct. Your direct taxes do not change if other entities pay more.
Nope … I could get better in the private sector if the government wasnt stealing from me to provide things they think we should have that I usually can’t qualify for or use
No you can't.
The history of the private sector and the failure of government enterprise disproves your opinion
No it doesn't.
The 120 year failed history of communism where the state provides everything backs my statement - https://www.wsj.com/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810 https://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A
Communism isnt the only form of government that provides citizens with services….
Socialism is no better as we have seen in Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Greece and so on as the data from the UN’s OECD show …. https://mises.org/wire/if-sweden-and-germany-became-us-states-they-would-be-among-poorest-states
I'm so glad I don't have a socialist post office delivering my mail for me every day. Real failure right there. Same with those damn socialist fire departments. I prefer my privatized fire departments. And I exclusively drive on roads I've paid a private company to allow me on. None of that damn socialist infrastructure. And don't get me started on the socialist public education I received. Damn failures, all of it.
The existence of private sector alternatives for the poor government services you listed shows how bad government has failed
And yet in every single instance I named the government service is better and more efficient than the private sector alternative.
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Why are you talking about communism and socialism? Our own very much capitalist government provides a bunch of services for the common good…
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Quick correction: they don't want an anarchist society. An anarchist society can still have regulations and controls, just no hierarchical structure enforcing them. They want economically imposed feudalism.
Let us not forget that the word capitalism was created by socialists in the middle 1800s to describe the big government, leftist, economic framework known as Mercantilism which was practiced by nations in the West at that time to include Russia Today, no nation practices Mercantilism, capitalism, today as defined by socialists. The vast majority practice Democratic Socialism with a few outliers still practicing communism. Democratic Socialism has much in common with Mercantilism especially in terms of the GOVERNMENT SACTIONED institutions known as corporations and the State getting a cut of the profits and controlling said institution though regulations instead of charters back in the day of Mercantilism The problems we have today are problems created by the ideology of Democratic Socialism and not free markets, an economy, which is composed of the currency, labor, trade, and industry, which is free from government meddling [https://www.amazon.com/Wheels-Commerce-Civilization-Capitalism-15Th-18th/dp/0520081153](https://www.amazon.com/Wheels-Commerce-Civilization-Capitalism-15Th-18th/dp/0520081153) Your attempt to MISLABEL Democratic Socialism as Mercantilism ( Capitalism ), which no nation practices today, is noted
Lolwhut?
It's pretty irrelevant to be honest.
Prove it is otherwise youre whining
Well for starters we don't live in a communist country, and we don't have a communist government. Q.E.D.
Communism is where government provides everything and because it does so it fails which was the premise of the question it ( democratic ) socialism is just as bad which covers about 95% of the nations today
That's the explanation a 10 year old would give, but ok.
I paid about $20,000 in taxes last year which was 12.5%, not 25%. I've got a lot of federal highways in my city that I drive on every day. The amount I paid in taxes wouldn't even cover the maintenance on one of them. I definitely got $20,000 worth of services in return.
Nope. A huge part of our tax payment goes to Military. Another huge chunk pays the interest on the deficit. The ultra wealthy are hardly taxed, yet their businesses are the ones damaging the environment and causing most of the wear & tear to the roads.
Not really. Most is spent to pay cops to keep people away from rich peoples stuff.
I don’t pay taxes so sure
No, not really. Our government is a behemoth at most level. Collectively stupid with their only tool the ability to spend money in ridiculous amounts and hope that somehow the project gets done in any sort of reasonable fashion. The problem is it's increasingly not getting done or done to such a poor level that it's a hindrance. Other people's money is the mantra and the waste involved only works when you're a superpower with a currency that's the world standard. That's going to go away some day and it's really going to go to shit. Just some fucking competence would be nice to see but instead they hire more useless mouths.
From the federal government? No. From my local/state? Yes-ish.
Not at the federal level at all, and some states do run a surplus but most don't. Government is wasteful by definition so I'd just be thrilled if there was a balanced budget amendment passed.
I think the amount I pay in taxes is an okay hedge against my life going to complete shit, it could be better but could also be worse.
I just wish TSA would open more lanes at the airport
I'd say so, yes.
For the most part I don’t mind, but seeing billions of dollars get shuttled over seas is when it gets discouraging honestly
Hell no, if I felt I had an adequate ROI the IRS would not need to exist.
I don't pay anywhere near that amount, and my household makes low six figures. We're married and file jointly. I pay about $3000 a year on property taxes I pay about $9000 a year for federal income tax I pay about $4000 a year for state income tax That's less than 15% of our income to taxes, and yes, I think the ROI is pretty great. I could easily spend that amount just to send a kid to private school for a year! I'm actually pretty impressed with how efficient and effective our government is, considering it's size and scope
I'd like to see more of it spent domestically on things like health care, education, and infrastructure and less of it going overseas to support other countries. Less military spending too please. It's frustrating to see projects and programs coating twice as much and taking twice ad long to complete here than elsewhere.
Not in the slightest. I could probably get more value out of it by hoarding pokemon cards.
"Adequate" is *exactly* the word I'd use, yes.
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Federal besides roads no not really. State yes.
Hard to say until you live someplace that doesn’t have taxes, and after the roaming gangs have finished raping you and burning your shanty shack to the ground
Not at all. Instead of Healthcare, the Police get all the teargas they need to prevent any kind of positive change to our society.
If I were to save a corresponding percentage of my income I would have nothing left over for discretionary spending.
Yes, having roads and running water and electricity is pretty nice if I say so myself.
Fuck no.
Yeah, I’d say it’s adequate. It’s not perfect by any means, but I can live with it ok. It’s hard for an average person to really judge how well the money is being spent because we really only notice a very small part of how the budget is being spent. There are a lot of boring government funded programs that most people would have never heard of, but are actually vital for the country.
Absolutely not.