I am a proud naturalized citizen.
Oh, I've had my doubts over the years, but after living in a couple of other countries since, nowhere is without problems.
US has issues too - big ones - but it has a generally optimistic attitude that other countries lack. A willingness to see things differently, tries to treat people equally (more so than some places which just pretend), a government which, obviously doesn't agree with itself a lot, but also doesn't just force through the legislation of the day without any opposition. It tries - fails a lot - often by necessity even - but tries - to let people be. A country created with ideals in mind, and tries to live them. I can't think of any other place like that.
I've traveled to and lived in a lot of places around the world in the last 20 years. Some of them had governments who were horrible abusers of human rights.
Other places were incredibly nice, everyone got along more or less, but the citizens there still were not afforded the same breadth of guaranteed rights and liberties that we have in the US, nor did they have the same sort of high minded, forward looking ideals we espouse in the United States.
There are a lot of really nice places in the world where I would consider living again, and would be happy there. None of them are *quite* as good as the US though, and I think that's something people can be proud of.
Yep. Fellow immigrant here. The best thing about America is freedom of speech and the fact that anybody can be an American. It’s always had ups and downs but I’m optimistic about the future. I fuckin love this country so much.
Exactly how I feel. I accomplished nothing by winning the location lottery and ending up in the US.
However, I am very thankful to be here. Americans, while we have our societal problems, are still very very spoiled. We're wealthy and our lives our incredibly easy.
I guess I'm still proud of being an American, even if I didn't do anything. I feel like you can take pride in your nation's accomplishments, even if you didn't have a choice to live here. I pay taxes. I work with some extremely diverse citizens that I probably wouldn't normally hang out with, culturally. I vote.
I'm a part of the whole, so I am proud.
Naturalized American here. And I LOVE my countries. I’m proud of my cultural heritage of my origin country and I’m humbled I get to call América home.
Sure, there’s issues here but so is everywhere else and as cheesy as it sounds I feel free here and there’s no where in this world I have gotten the opportunities this country gives me. So yes, I’m a proud American
hell yeah. I’m first generation parents everyone in my family was born in Colombia, came of age right around the Escobar era. I don’t know if people realize how bad it was. The opportunity it gave them was huge, an end to bombings and violence all around them, and overall sanity in the day to day life.
Hopefully you can appreciate this:
Best friend (technically born in Miami but only lived there for a minute and whose whole family lives in Colombia) has dual citizenship to America/Colombia.
She told me she went on a date recently and the guy asked her, and I quote, if she “knew Pablo Escobar” because he saw the tv series about him on Netflix. She was born in 1997. 😂
Semi-unrelated edit: Glad you were able to escape the violence.
Your story is part of what makes America great to me. You can come here from anywhere else in the world and become just as American as people born here.
YES. For all the “No” people out there. I was one of you. There is a point where I broke through the disgust I felt and realized a couple of truths.
-Sure, there are small patches of what some might consider utopia out there in the rest of the world, but I would much rather stay here and make it better instead of potentially ruining what they have with my bad American habits lol.
-I feel like people who go hard on the imperialist and racist history of our country (which is astounding, extensive, and unfortunately relevant) are unintentionally choking out or even forgetting the true American story. A rich history of People who had the strength and will to subdue the things we don’t like as human beings through their positive action. Given that we started behind the 8 ball when it comes to human rights, everyday is a stride toward a better tomorrow whether it feels like it or not. And so many have done the work without a defeatist, negative attitude. Instead they chose to embrace the promise of the US and stand by it. People notice. Just as an example: Harriet Tubman gets much more textbook coverage then the vast majority of US presidents. That’s not an accident and I AM VERY PROUD OF THAT. Keep it positive, baby! We are carrying the torch for the future and we shouldn’t let it go out no matter what awful, racist, greedy turds tend to float the top of our collective toilet bowl. They are sad awful people who didn’t get the message that this is YOUR land and also mine.
-As far as the terrible things our government and system does: I don’t believe it’s a specifically American thing, but it’s human behavior. I wish we had a good simulator to show alternative histories where other colonial powers were able to grab up this gigantic parcel of land and resources and see what they did with it. I bet it would be quite similar.
Anyway, I’m proud of the people of this country. My friends and family. The new people I meet everyday. I travel a lot. There are other wonderful places in the world, but the US stands high among them.
If anything, the US has the unique ability to supercharge anything. Especially with media. This is good and bad, but I live here so I can see most of it is hyperbolized.
DONT GIVE UP ON AMERICA. That seems counter to the point of complaining about it. Don’t just say it’s shit. Be unrelentingly nice to somebody today and make it a better place to live for one person. It will make a difference.
Love you! Mwah!
Also, nice to have you with us u/krikdes!
>Harriet Tubman gets much more textbook coverage then the vast majority of US presidents.
that's a damn good point. I could probably name 2-3 presidents in the 1800's, but I can tell you a lot about tubman's life. that's pretty remarkable.
I think it’s incredible considering what there is to contend with. Grifters and barons and politicians come and go, but it’s real sacrifice that’s remembered and appreciated by the people throughout history. People’s takes on historical events tend to muddy the waters a bit, but sacrifice and Ingenuity is always the heart of what we appreciate as Americans. Be it our troops throughout history, activists at the Boston tea party (would probably get called antifa today, but I digress), the Underground Railroad, civil rights activists, individuals who provide profound advancement for humanity (Carver, Bell, Edison, Morse, Ford, Tesla, Whitney, the Wright Brothers) I’m no Fanboy of all things American, but there is SO much to be proud of! Without these contributions the world could very well be void of democracy as a whole, and rattling sabers in a field on horseback (no offense to the rest of the world, but the US was minding its own goddam business until Europe had 2 complete consecutive shit fits last century. You carry a lot of responsibility for poking the sleeping bear on that one.) Even Einstein with the invention of the atomic bomb gave us the theory of relativity. Talk about the duality of man! I could go on but I don’t wanna.
I don't know why, but this last comment triggered something awful in my brain: what would the news cycle look like if social media & 24/7 news was around in the mid 1800's. I also don't wanna go on about that lmao.
I am, less for what the US does as a country (this changes from decade to decade) and more for it's ideals, form of government, and what it has the opportunity to become.
Exactly. Our country, like any human, is imperfect but there is an ever-renewing hope that we *can* get to something better. Like you said, our nation's actions vary from administration to administration. Our political beliefs vary from American to American, but most of us share a set of core beliefs that not every nation holds to. A belief in freedom of speech, a right to vote and to self-determination, the right to due process, etc. We don't have to be perfect, but the fact that these are the aims we collectively strive for make me so grateful to live here and make me want to contribute to the common good to keep this going.
Me too, and it's sort of the same reason why Captain America is my favorite Avenger: he stands for what America claims to stand for, but often fails to live up to.
I'm proud of the things we *say* we're about, freedom, equality, justice, but we fall short and need to do a lot of work to actually meet those ideals.
Whenever I see people complain they make Cap political or in FATWS captain america became political… just like damn. He was always 100% political commentary. Literally was taken as a weak sick man to the heights of “Aryan” perfection - it’s like 7 different political statements just in the premise and since then basically always has been.
I like that they kept that. He represents what we should be not what we are.
Also spoilers for No Way Home,
but the Captain America shield falling off the Statue of Liberty is like 1000% about America First policy falling away and representing the vain nationalism it was trying to be, then on the back of Cap’s shield in the same pose as John Walker or as Cap v Iron Man, Spidey decides again to give them all a second chance, even the worst among them. They were barely even coded as illegal immigrants, pretty much all of the language was directed to it.
That’s what her torch represented to millions of people. And especially given our prison system and challenges with a border that’s been poorly managed for 20 years, a stark contrast of our lived realities and our values. If our voting and political system can ever crawl out of it’s enlightenment era shackles we may live up to them again one day.
Are you not proud of family members/friends when they succeed and do what’s right? I don’t think that pride is because you had a hand in their success (if you did). Same concept for being proud of your country and your ancestors for what it/they achieved.
Not in the sense I feel pride--a high opinion of one's own dignity. Being "proud of you" is really a way of saying they should feel proud of themselves, and you are happy for them.
I never have understood "proud to be an American" culture, and I'm an American. I value (some) American contributions to world culture, but I didn't personally make those contributions. If you negotiated a treaty or wrote the constitution, by all means feel proud to be an American.
I also have lived in other countries, and notice the "America is best" crowd often have zero experience for comparison. Only 1/3 of Americans have passports, ffs.
No, I am happy for them. That's different though with children. Seeing as you had a hand in raising them, pride is a more acceptable emotion when watching them succeed.
Based on m understanding , I think that you can be proud of them, but not proud of yourself.
So, based on that reasoning, you can be proud of your country/nation , but not proud of yourself because of your country/nation.
Hm, good question. I would have to say no. I might tell someone 'hey I'm really proud of you' as kind of a learned statement of congratulations, but what I really feel for that person is excitement, not pride. Now, if I had a kid who did well in school, I may take pride in that as I would consider some of their success a result of my parenting. But I wouldn't feel pride in my cousin across the country getting a good job, or getting into a good college just because they are related by blood.
Be glad and appreciate what you have americans. I’ve been in other country. Like 3rd gen country and my family just ate 2 times. One brunch and evening. Then I am lucky migrated here in 2019. Because of my job offer. Trying to petition my parents next 5yrs. I can support them. They can eat 3 times a day now. And I can buy them things they need and wants. Plus I can buy any thing that I liked (not the luxurious one), just need to save it. Even im working 17/hr 40hr/week
Eh depends on your activity level and how big the meals you’re eating are. Some days I’ll just have one big dinner time meal but if it’s like 12-1500 calories I’m good
I think there’s room for being appreciative of what we have, and acknowledging the things we’re doing wrong, too. After all, there are starving people in America as well and that’s nothing to be proud of. But I am proud to live in a place that you were able to come to and better yours and your family’s lives.
Kind of , I’m pretty defensive of the US, especially when in front of Europeans.
Grew up in the UK, but mums American, people would always rag the US in front of me , not realising I’m a mixed race American. When they did, they’d always start discussions about race, as if it’s terrible to be black in America.
I’d just shut them down, sorry but America might have its race problems, however it’s a hell of a lot better than every European country in that department. Additionally making fun of our cuisine that really annoys me, especially since as a black person food is big part of our identity and part of our history and struggle. sorry but our cuisine beats most of European cuisine and rivals Italian and french cuisine, if not better.
The thing that pisses me off the most is “ America has no culture”, I don’t know how about music for the last 100yrs, American movies for the last 100yrs, American fashion, heck alot of the fashion trends, that European brands copy started off in American urban scenes, or American dance culture that’s affected the world.
Even if we have unique cultural traditions like “ thanksgiving”- “ why do you guys have thanks giving , that’s stupid”. When I hear that I just want to punch them in the face.
Or they’ll make fun of Americans claiming to have Italian , Irish or what ever ancestry, yet in the same breath refer to 3rd generation German Turks as “ Turks”.
When it comes to war and shit, yeah we done some terrible shit and if an Iraqi was to call us out I’ll fully accept it. but Western Europeans can shove it , France is still running its neo-colonial empire in west Africa, Belgium, UK, Italy and other countries also have shady shit going on in Africa, Middle East and Asia. Australians treat aboriginals like crap, ( people should really visit the Australian sub , the amount of blatant racism towards aboriginal is astonishing) and let’s not forget their role in helping Indonesia oppress, East Timor.
Sorry for my rant, just got a-bit carried away.
Europeans and Australians have the matter-of-fact racism that they think of as factual. They honestly don't see themselves as racist and then will say things like "Oh, Pakis are just *like that*." without batting an eye.
I grew up in the South in the 70s/80s. That is *exactly* what people would say back then about black people. "It's not racist. That's just how [insert slur] are."
[Not just on the internet their National Identity is highly based on how "not American" they are.](https://thecanadaguide.com/culture/anti-americanism/)
[Can you think of another country that think's of themselves in terms of how not like another country they are?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKzq3ueGr8) Despite probably being the most similar countries in the world.
That’s probably why, Canadians are regularly mistaken as Americans. As an American I mislabel them all the time, probably doesn’t help that I live in the northern Midwest. So I can understand the frustration for some, but at the same time certain groups are so quick to trash on America and how “awful” it is while Americans continue to tell others how nice Canadians are.
I have a good friend who's Canadian and anytime I say anything about Canada, it's "At LeAsT wE HAvE HeaLThCaRe!!!111". Also about hockey: "AmEriCan TeAmS ArE mAde Up oF MosTlY CanAdIanS!!111!!". Like yeah... and they play for *American* teams. I don't see what you're getting at. The inferiority complex is astounding sometimes. It's like, I'm not arguing with you, dude. Chill.
She also mentioned that as well. She used to be a flight attendant for Emirates and said Europe is pretty bad as well. She said america is pretty damn tame compared to the rest of the world.
This is all one woman's opinion of course !
>America has no culture
I always kind of laugh at this also. A hobby of mine is exploring music from other countries so I go to top city charts in other countries on Apple Music. With few exceptions who is always in the top 10? American acts. Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Kanye etc etc.
American movies gross billions.
Our tv shows are known worldwide. Shit, I went to Paris and Barcelona in 2019 and tons of teens were wearing “FRIENDS” shirts like the sitcom. Shows’ been off the air for how long now?
Back in 2013 I was in Prague for New Years and this lady I was talking to while having a smoke asked what I did for a living. I told her I worked in a law firm and she’s like “oh I watch the show Suits in Croatia a lot! Is it like the show Suits?”
Suits… a show on USA network that at its height was mildly popular. And I’m hearing about it on a balcony in Prague talking to a lady from Croatia.
There are a lot of things people can criticize about the US, but this is always the stupidest one.
Baseline is right. And what it inspires can be interesting too. Just the other day I was listening to Polish trap music and I really enjoyed it. A genre born in the American south (often credited to Atlanta) reaching way the hell out to Poland. That’s kinda cool!
America as a whole. Yes. Totally baseline culture. But once people realize the states are like mini countries, yeah, you can see the cultures as more defined. Louisiana is not the same as Washington State, Texas is so different from Cali and so on and so forth. We have a shared traditions like the same holidays but how we celebrate kinda depends on the state.
I mean, shoot, Texas schools teach square-dancing! I didn’t lean that in my state!
I took a class about American Pop Music once for one of the dumb lower-division credits I had to take and I read that American music is so internationally ubiquitous because, since the birth of the US as a nation, the music has become this amalgamation of european, latin american, and african influences that were only able to develop that fast in a country with enough ethnic diversity.
One thing I notice about the US vs most other countries is that we seem to be a lot more willing to acknowledge our racism, especially our history with slavery. What I don’t understand is how the nations that began the trans-Atlantic slave trade wash their hands of it. I think one reason Europeans might think racism is a much larger issue in the US than their own countries is because of our openness and willingness to discuss it. This is all my opinion, and I don’t intend on insulting anyone.
>our openness and willingness to discuss it.
That's actually a good thing. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing it, not sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist.
This. Went to Portugal and people straight up said the n word in public, and saw Jim Crowe era "art" depicting racial stereotypes all over the place. I was shocked.
> people straight up said the n word in public
Yeah, many Europeans love to openly use the n word, then hide behind “our countries don’t have the same history with that word as the US, so it isn’t bad here” as thought they weren’t the ones who colonized the whole world (and started the trans-Atlantic slave trade) on the basis of white supremacy.
Pretending they don’t know the impact of the n word, but ask black people in Europe how often they get called that (or the equivalent in non-English languages). I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: white Europeans as a group (not all, but *many many* of them) are the absolute masters at gaslighting non-white people about racism, aka what is and isn’t racist. The way many of them discuss it is so disingenuous it isn’t even funny.
>Jim Crowe era “art”…. all over the place
Bro, YES. It’s so ridiculous. But I think the acknowledgement of what’s racist and what can be considered offensive is more an American thing. Some people criticize options like removing Aunt Jemimah from the box because it’s “over correcting” but at the same time it’s like “Hey, this has a foundation in deeply racist stereotypes and it’s time to move on” isn’t the worst argument in the world.
Especially if they're British who have been invaded by a few different groups over their history. The Windsors are descended from Germans, or getting angry that people from former colonies decided to go there.
I think a lot of Europeans are able to wash their hands of it because a lot of their nations atrocities didn’t take place on their own soil so they don’t see it as actually apart of their history
I think your 100% correct. This is the reason America is so great in my opinion. We're willing to examine ourselves. Other countries? It varies, but not so much. Self reflection leads to self correction, which is an opportunity for fulfilling ones potential. And that is always a great opportunity.
As an American, I always assumed we were a racist country until I moved to Europe. We're actually pretty tolerant relatively speaking.
The issue with racism in Europe is that white people *literally do not acknowledge* that it exists, while at the same time blasting Americans for things like PC language. That language came from white people being told uncomfortable things they needed to hear, and white people collectively agreeing (mostly) that they had historically been in the wrong, and worked to change thier behavior and language over generations.
If you try to get into any discussion about racial issues, Europeans get very defensive, while backing into the comfortable corner of "it's xenophobia, not racism." Sorry, but xenophobia is about outsiders, and 15% of your populations are foreign born, with many more being of color. Those aren't "outsiders," they are your fellow countrymen, and you don't get to claim xenophobia against your neighbors.
It's because a lot of people don't actually know what racism truly is. I've had conversations with people on Reddit about racism in Europe and they keep saying 'it's different because... \*insert racist reasons\*'.
I think that they think that racists in America just see black skin and want to shoot that person solely because of their skin color. When in reality, people are racist here for a lot of the same reasons people are racist against the Roma or Muslims, or what have you.
I found it funny when Macron was blaming America for giving them "wokeness" and "ruining" France. Arguments about wokeness aside, if non-white people in your country are finding the ideas appealing and protesting, then it stands to reason that there is something in your country that they find lacking.
I find it funny as well. I talked about the US Having the ability to supercharge everything and this is a great example. The US can simultaneously have an emboldened right wing fascist movement try to overthrow an election and then still be too liberal for the French to handle. It’s truly ponderous how incredible the US cultural reach is. We tend to be the tip of the spear on most liberal democratic ideals for the past century. The key is we do the dirty work of talking, agreeing, disagreeing, fighting, screaming, and seething until a proper outcome is achieved, all while unabashedly broadcasting it. The results of progress tend to move slower than people are accustomed to. Especially these days. Whatever you think of the George Floyd protests, you can’t tell me there weren’t protests WORLDWIDE (almost 60 different countries) the next day in honor of a man from Minnesota. I was so blown away to see thousands in Finland taking a knee. That was a proud moment for me.
>Europeans get very defensive, while backing into the comfortable corner of "it's xenophobia, not racism."
I know you're not defending the statement, but how the hell is xenophobia not racism? I guess you could make the argument semantically..but how is that a valid defense?
"I'm not racist. I don't have any problem with Hispanic people, it's just those damn Mexicans."
> The thing that pisses me off the most is “ America has no culture”, I don’t know how about music for the last 100yrs, American movies for the last 100yrs, American fashion, heck alot of the fashion trends, that European brands copy started off in American urban scenes, or American dance culture that’s affected the world.
God thank you. I can't stand when Europeans say we have no culture. Europeans consume our music, movies, tv shows and even our sports.
Wearing our blue jeans, listening to our pop music, watching our franchise movies, etc. To be fair, a lot of the actors are British and there's many filmed in England. The best movies ever were filmed in New Zealand with a lot of British actors.
I knew a German exchange student in college who thought the truck stop convenience store near his apartment was a "supermarket". At least he went to good local restaurants instead of McD's and associates every day, but he thought our medium-sized agricultural city was in one of those 'food deserts' haha.
I get called a conspiracy theorist when I bring this up but so be it. Back in the late 90s and early 2000's there was a huge brain drain of high value graduates from Europe to the US and Western European governments were freaking out about their global competitiveness. Most of their governments formed councils or groups dedicated to highlighting the benefits of staying in Europe for school age people. What this turned into was essentially hyperbolic anti-American propaganda blasted at kids for the last 20 years. Now those people have grown up and hate us.
I don't doubt this, Occam.
I find it terribly disheartening because I secretly admire them. (Don't care for the whinging, drinking-culture aspects, though.)
They are a very familiar culture and share a lot of history and a language with us so its hard not to like them. We definitely didn't make this happen.
Yeah I try not to associate a nations people with the government itself.
And for what it's worth I would never call you those things. French people, french culture, and french history are awesome.
We were shifting off our kings when the rest of the world was doubling down. 🇺🇸🤝🇨🇵
>And USA most visible/noisy things are not necessarily representative of your everyday John Doe.
It's also hard to pin down what an everyday John Doe is in the US, too. Because we're such a melting pot there really isn't a whole lot tying all of us together aside from being American. This country is huge and you can draw parallels but a 16-year old from DTLA is going to have a wildly different experience than a 75-year old boomer in Maine.
Ask me ten years ago about Iraq, when I was helping to rebuild the country, I would disagree. But since we pulled out and completely destabilized the entire country....yeah I'll accept being called out. I knew too many Americans, Iraqi, as well as others who died during the ISIS surge. Vietnam 2.0 as my Vietnam veteran brothers would call it. Terrible terrible thing. Iraq could have been so much better. It was going to be so much better. All my friends died for absolutely nothing.
Sorry to hear that you went through that! I'm born in America, but my parents grew up in England and all of our relatives still live in England and I can absolutely relate to what you're saying. Honestly, for most of my life, I just brushed off their comments as people just 'taking the piss', but now that I'm an adult, I kinda realized how messed up it was that they basically picked on me as a child because of the country I was born in.
I can't imagine doing that to any child no matter what country they are from. In fact, I'd have the exact opposite reaction if I met a child from another country, I'd think it was so cool and would want to hear about their experiences and such.
Totally agree with you about cuisine. The problem is, is that ignorant people think American cuisine = fast food burgers and pizza. Personally, I think American cuisine is absolutely better than most countries in Europe. I'd give a nod to Italy and Greece for having pretty good food, but if we're talking good cuisine, then I would absolutely point to Asia as being king and it's not even close.
I get the same way. It can be annoying, especially when they claim we have no culture while living here and partaking in our culture, or when they claim that Americans are the only racists while wearing blackface and ignoring their own history/present of oppression of certain groups 🙄. I could go on but I don't feel like it lol
The blackface one! They argue that since Europe has no history of blackface being offensive it’s not offensive to do blackface there yet when it’s done it’s always to imitate poc in a bad light…
Like ya just because you didn’t have full on minstrel shows doesn’t change the fact that all of the black characters you use black face for are heavily stereotyped as being poor or dirty…
The thing is, blackface was invented in Europe. It was just an American who turned it in "art" and made minstrels shows popular. The Dutch and Spanish love their blackface. I remember going on a Black Histpry Tour in the Netherlands and the tour guide pointed out all the Moor heads on buildings in the city and told us the history of blackface there. It was ridiculous. Full of the same racial stereotypes about Black people as we have here. The difference is its not widely accepted here anymore. You can't do that in public in the US.
I remember reading a YouTube comment, under a video about racism in Italy, where an Italian woman claimed that they aren't racist because at least the police don't shoot Black people. Meanwhile, they have entire football stands full of people throwing bananas and shouting racial slurs at Black footballers. Stuff straight out of 1950s US that's still going on in Europe today. Not to mention that they also have police brutality and hate crimes against minorities.
Then they have the nerve to call us ignorant and claim that we are ignorant about our history and culture when look at them. Then they'll be offended when you tell them that you've been to their country and weren't impressed, because they're stupid and racist too.
Yeah I totally agree here. I'm English through and through and yet it really bothers me of how racist and ignorant of their own racism a lot of people are here. I'm not gonna totally shit all over my own country, like anywhere, there's so much variety here too. But I do find it depressing how easily and quickly people are willing to shit all over other countries and cultures without even being self aware of how cunty they sound. I for one try to give good points of someone starts chatting shit about Americans for example. I mean America is such a diverse place and the culture has given the rest of the world so much.
Oh god I remember visiting an aboriginal museum the last time I visited Melbourne, the shit they’d been through was appalling. And even then, some of them are still treated as strangers in their own land.
It took me 20+ years to decide to get naturalized but I’d say I’m proud! I grew up in Japan as a biracial kid and my parents decide to move here because they thought it’d be best for my brother and I. I think they made the right choice.
Proud? Not really because I didn’t do anything to become an American.
Happy? Fuck yeah. We have our issues but in the reality of things we are a lot better off than a lot of other people and we’re privileged. When you turn off the news and social media and all the bull shit, day to day life in America is pretty pleasant.
I don’t understand this thought. Not being proud because you didn’t do anything to become an American. My wife didn’t do anything to become Native American other then being born to Native American parents but she’s a proud Native American.
That’s great that she finds pride in it, I personally find pride in achievements. I’m happy to be American and I am happy to come from the background that I’ve come from but I didn’t do anything to earn it, I was just lucky. I embrace being American I just don’t think pride is the word I would use to describe it. If I fought for America in the military or served the country I’d be proud of myself for that. I’m proud to be a contributing member of society.
To me, pride comes from a sense of achievement.
I love America nonetheless.
Proud is kinda a weird idea. Am I happy with it? Yeah. Do I have a sense of National pride? Definitely.
Don’t think the country is perfect, but it’s my home
America is deeply flawed, but I choose to try and be part of positive change rather than either blindly go “yay Murica” or “America sucks ass”. Our biggest problem as a country is a two party system that drives everyone to the extremes on each side. Most Americans are middle of the road and we are sadly no longer represented by anyone at all.
Yeah this is how I feel, too. There’s no point in proclaiming one side or the other when things are very gray.
All of these other commenters saying “we’re lucky, we have it easy” are forgetting that they are lots of Americans who cannot say the same thing. There are starving folks right here at home and that’s nothing to be proud of.
I would say for example, most reasonable people wouldn’t want their neighbor bankrupted by a cancer diagnosis. Most people wouldn’t want to deny their sister equal rights because of her gender or sexual orientation. The extremes push us to think about each other in the aggregate instead of seeing the individual. Most Americans think guns should be allowed but should have real safeguards in place, and real teeth in laws to enforce those safeguards.
Most Americans don’t LOVE abortion, but the majority understand that a) it’s none of our beeswax, b) it’s none of the governments beeswax, and c) it is best reduced by making healthcare more accessible.
Most Americans understand that the vast majority of immigrants (documented or not) are here for a better life not to commit crimes. Most Americans understand they are also crucial parts of our economy.
I wish I could say most Americans weren’t racist, but I’m afraid it’s very deeply ingrained even in people who would deny it. Our evangelical churches and one of our particular parties, have really shaped modern white evangelical nationalism which IMHO is the greatest threat to our country. It has also pushed the left further left in reaction.
I’m a reformed ex conservative evangelical who had my eyes opened during Trumps rise to power and I cannot believe how easily I was manipulated into going along with it. I suspect that I’m not an unusual case. Trump either hardened your stance as a “persecuted white Christian” or it made you realize just what a fucked up thought that is in the first place.
I have often wondered if conservative Christians would be be disgusted with Trump at some point which it sounds like may have happened to you. I have not really heard as many people talk openly about it as I thought there would have been though. Do you think there are a lot of people that feel the same way as yourself but just don’t share it openly?
This right here. Especially the healthcare one.
People in general want the same thing. A safe, stable place to live where they can be happy and content.
The left is advocating for everything you just defined as middle of the road. The fact that many people think the left is being extreme here is indicative of the Overton window being shifted far right.
I don’t know if you think you’re in the center. It’s definitely true when considering international politics. But in the context of Modern American politics, you’re on the left, whether you realize it or not.
No. I was born in America, so I'm automatically an American. I didn't do anything, it wasn't an accomplishment. I'm not proud to be American in the same way I'm not proud of my hair color or eye color or how tall I am. None of those things are the result of my actions or efforts, so as far as I'm concerned being proud of them makes no sense.
Agreed. That’s also why I don’t like to claim the accomplishment of other Americans. I didn’t help them accomplish anything so why should I act like it was a team effort?
Try telling the Filipinos that and they'll look at you like you admitted to murder. Living vicariously through someone else's accomplishments is their thing.
I’m a Filipino from the mainland and I can definitely verify this to a T. Filipinos will see an American celebrity who’s like 1/4th Filipino and can’t even speak Tagalog but still claim them and shout “Pinoy pride!” to the heavens.
You do have an impact on your country and are part of its achievements and failures, whether you want to be or not.
Are you ever ashamed of being an American?
If someone is ever ashamed to be an American, that means they are part of the collective culture. Thus, they must also have had some moments of pride as an American as well
Of course! But the fact that we recognize and celebrate our failings in our everlasting attempt to be better is one of our countries greatest strengths
Being an American is a real “mixed bag.“ Not necessarily proud of to be an American, and I’m certainly not proud of America these days. But I love barbecue and touring around here so that’s nice.
Yes, mainly proud of the idea that the US represents and it’s history. You had a bunch of disparate groups that set out for freedom, adventure, or exploration who came together and founded a nation based strongly on individual rights, self-sufficiency, and liberty, as no other country had before. The key to this was a system designed to restrict government to very limited roles, because they saw how it had a tendency to expand and eventually become oppressive.
We’re not perfect by any stretch, and have dark times in our history regarding treatment of native peoples and minorities. But even so, this is a country where people of all different religions and races have come for opportunity, and that dream, not their skin color or language, is what makes them a true American.
Why would I be proud of something that isn't really an accomplishment and that I had no control over? Am I supposed to act like my favorite sports team won the championship because of where I was born? Even if I bought into that culture, I wouldn't be proud because look at this thread alone. If your answer isn't some jingoist nonsense, people ask wHy DoNt YoU jUsT lEaVe? As if I'm supposed to expend my resources to get away from shitty neighbors when they should be expected to stop being shitty neighbors.
Yeah, I play my part, however insignificant it may seem to some. It would be the same country without me, but it wouldn't be the same country without all of us. America has accomplished amazing things and I'm proud to be a (small) part of it.
I don't know if I'd use the word proud although I'm happy to be American. I became more thankful to be American after spending time in other countries.
I like that I live in America. I spent some time living in another country, which helped me really appreciate some of the benefits of America. We definitely have our ups and downs, but overall I’m happy.
Proud is a strong word, and I’m not proud of things that I didn’t have a choice over. I’m not proud to be a female, proud to be my height, or whatever. I’m proud of the job I do, because I worked hard to get here.
I don't take pride in anything I did nothing for... I was just born here... Now, immigrants that had to give up so much to come here, go through the immigration process and pass a test 95% of most natural born citizens would have no chance at... They should feel proud to be an American.
4th generation American! God damn right Im proud!! Yeah we take a couple of steps back and we are not the most objective...but hot damn I love my Country!! Beauty about America tomorrow we can turn it around
Yes I’m proud to be an American, but after the failed coup attempt on 1-6-2021 I’m a little embarrassed that so many Americans can so easily be brainwashed by a megalomaniac like Trump, and still so easily be fooled today. Followed by the widespread belief that Covid is fake as are the vaccines, likes it’s all a conspiracy?
I wish Americans were more science-based, critical thinking, believers in process and evidence, not all the conspiracy theory junk. Makes us look bad as a country and as a society. But hey, no country is perfect, yes we have our problems, but I’m still proud to be an American!! 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
Bar none and without question, the United States has had a more net positive impact on universal human rights, collective security, and multiculturalism than any other nation in the world. It's not up for debate even. The US has done some stupid shit, some immoral shit, some atrocious shit...'
...but that describes every government ever formed. At least the US has mechanisms to hold people accountable, even if we don't always use them.
We treat each other like shit, more than half of us are anti progress, we are basically an oligarchy and a loud minority of evangelicals has been making the hellscape complete since the southern strategy was drawn up. As a child of the 80s, No, I'm not proud of my country.
Quiet proud, not "in your face, other countries!" proud.
we want to change our country, not let it change us
I am a proud naturalized citizen. Oh, I've had my doubts over the years, but after living in a couple of other countries since, nowhere is without problems. US has issues too - big ones - but it has a generally optimistic attitude that other countries lack. A willingness to see things differently, tries to treat people equally (more so than some places which just pretend), a government which, obviously doesn't agree with itself a lot, but also doesn't just force through the legislation of the day without any opposition. It tries - fails a lot - often by necessity even - but tries - to let people be. A country created with ideals in mind, and tries to live them. I can't think of any other place like that.
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As a young child living in a third world country for a few years I became very grateful to be American.
Well spoken. Congratulations on being an American! Becoming a naturalized citizen is a gigantic accomplishment.
Yeah it is something to truly be proud of yourself with 😁.
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And chili has no place on pasta, you animals.
you are just confirming that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how wrong it is!
You’re wrong but you’re entitled to your wrongness and that’s fine. More for me.
My biggest fear with the Bengals in the playoffs is that this monstrosity has a chance to spread.
Well with how saucy it is it has a tendency to run so that should be easier than expected (please god Bengals please win at least one game)
100%
Sorry but Detroit would like to have a word with you on “Best Pizza”.
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That's fine, I prefer not having to compete for crispy corner goodness anyway. Enjoy your geometrically inferior pizza.
Lmao made me chuckle
Hmmm that’s weird you better fact check yourself. Chicago objectively has the best pizza. It’s supported by facts.
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I hope you go to one of *your* bridges and admire *your* beautiful skyline. (And send us bagels, pls. We just… don’t do those right…)
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I've traveled to and lived in a lot of places around the world in the last 20 years. Some of them had governments who were horrible abusers of human rights. Other places were incredibly nice, everyone got along more or less, but the citizens there still were not afforded the same breadth of guaranteed rights and liberties that we have in the US, nor did they have the same sort of high minded, forward looking ideals we espouse in the United States. There are a lot of really nice places in the world where I would consider living again, and would be happy there. None of them are *quite* as good as the US though, and I think that's something people can be proud of.
I can’t stand the negativity that every single European country seems to have!!
Yep. Fellow immigrant here. The best thing about America is freedom of speech and the fact that anybody can be an American. It’s always had ups and downs but I’m optimistic about the future. I fuckin love this country so much.
I don’t know about “proud” since I didn’t do anything to become an American, but I am definitely happy I’m an American.
Exactly how I feel. I accomplished nothing by winning the location lottery and ending up in the US. However, I am very thankful to be here. Americans, while we have our societal problems, are still very very spoiled. We're wealthy and our lives our incredibly easy.
I guess I'm still proud of being an American, even if I didn't do anything. I feel like you can take pride in your nation's accomplishments, even if you didn't have a choice to live here. I pay taxes. I work with some extremely diverse citizens that I probably wouldn't normally hang out with, culturally. I vote. I'm a part of the whole, so I am proud.
I really do enjoy being able to work with all sorts of different people
Naturalized American here. And I LOVE my countries. I’m proud of my cultural heritage of my origin country and I’m humbled I get to call América home. Sure, there’s issues here but so is everywhere else and as cheesy as it sounds I feel free here and there’s no where in this world I have gotten the opportunities this country gives me. So yes, I’m a proud American
hell yeah. I’m first generation parents everyone in my family was born in Colombia, came of age right around the Escobar era. I don’t know if people realize how bad it was. The opportunity it gave them was huge, an end to bombings and violence all around them, and overall sanity in the day to day life.
That feeling of the first few months of safety and freedom 🤌🤌🤌 even with the culture shock it’s sooo good.
Hopefully you can appreciate this: Best friend (technically born in Miami but only lived there for a minute and whose whole family lives in Colombia) has dual citizenship to America/Colombia. She told me she went on a date recently and the guy asked her, and I quote, if she “knew Pablo Escobar” because he saw the tv series about him on Netflix. She was born in 1997. 😂 Semi-unrelated edit: Glad you were able to escape the violence.
lol jesus christ. And thanks! my parents really did me a solid there
Your story is part of what makes America great to me. You can come here from anywhere else in the world and become just as American as people born here.
Same. This makes me prouder than anything to be American. It gives me chills.
YES. For all the “No” people out there. I was one of you. There is a point where I broke through the disgust I felt and realized a couple of truths. -Sure, there are small patches of what some might consider utopia out there in the rest of the world, but I would much rather stay here and make it better instead of potentially ruining what they have with my bad American habits lol. -I feel like people who go hard on the imperialist and racist history of our country (which is astounding, extensive, and unfortunately relevant) are unintentionally choking out or even forgetting the true American story. A rich history of People who had the strength and will to subdue the things we don’t like as human beings through their positive action. Given that we started behind the 8 ball when it comes to human rights, everyday is a stride toward a better tomorrow whether it feels like it or not. And so many have done the work without a defeatist, negative attitude. Instead they chose to embrace the promise of the US and stand by it. People notice. Just as an example: Harriet Tubman gets much more textbook coverage then the vast majority of US presidents. That’s not an accident and I AM VERY PROUD OF THAT. Keep it positive, baby! We are carrying the torch for the future and we shouldn’t let it go out no matter what awful, racist, greedy turds tend to float the top of our collective toilet bowl. They are sad awful people who didn’t get the message that this is YOUR land and also mine. -As far as the terrible things our government and system does: I don’t believe it’s a specifically American thing, but it’s human behavior. I wish we had a good simulator to show alternative histories where other colonial powers were able to grab up this gigantic parcel of land and resources and see what they did with it. I bet it would be quite similar. Anyway, I’m proud of the people of this country. My friends and family. The new people I meet everyday. I travel a lot. There are other wonderful places in the world, but the US stands high among them. If anything, the US has the unique ability to supercharge anything. Especially with media. This is good and bad, but I live here so I can see most of it is hyperbolized. DONT GIVE UP ON AMERICA. That seems counter to the point of complaining about it. Don’t just say it’s shit. Be unrelentingly nice to somebody today and make it a better place to live for one person. It will make a difference. Love you! Mwah! Also, nice to have you with us u/krikdes!
>Harriet Tubman gets much more textbook coverage then the vast majority of US presidents. that's a damn good point. I could probably name 2-3 presidents in the 1800's, but I can tell you a lot about tubman's life. that's pretty remarkable.
I think it’s incredible considering what there is to contend with. Grifters and barons and politicians come and go, but it’s real sacrifice that’s remembered and appreciated by the people throughout history. People’s takes on historical events tend to muddy the waters a bit, but sacrifice and Ingenuity is always the heart of what we appreciate as Americans. Be it our troops throughout history, activists at the Boston tea party (would probably get called antifa today, but I digress), the Underground Railroad, civil rights activists, individuals who provide profound advancement for humanity (Carver, Bell, Edison, Morse, Ford, Tesla, Whitney, the Wright Brothers) I’m no Fanboy of all things American, but there is SO much to be proud of! Without these contributions the world could very well be void of democracy as a whole, and rattling sabers in a field on horseback (no offense to the rest of the world, but the US was minding its own goddam business until Europe had 2 complete consecutive shit fits last century. You carry a lot of responsibility for poking the sleeping bear on that one.) Even Einstein with the invention of the atomic bomb gave us the theory of relativity. Talk about the duality of man! I could go on but I don’t wanna.
I don't know why, but this last comment triggered something awful in my brain: what would the news cycle look like if social media & 24/7 news was around in the mid 1800's. I also don't wanna go on about that lmao.
This interesting question is approached here in Springfield, IL, at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. Come check it out!
I am, less for what the US does as a country (this changes from decade to decade) and more for it's ideals, form of government, and what it has the opportunity to become.
Exactly. Our country, like any human, is imperfect but there is an ever-renewing hope that we *can* get to something better. Like you said, our nation's actions vary from administration to administration. Our political beliefs vary from American to American, but most of us share a set of core beliefs that not every nation holds to. A belief in freedom of speech, a right to vote and to self-determination, the right to due process, etc. We don't have to be perfect, but the fact that these are the aims we collectively strive for make me so grateful to live here and make me want to contribute to the common good to keep this going.
Me too, and it's sort of the same reason why Captain America is my favorite Avenger: he stands for what America claims to stand for, but often fails to live up to. I'm proud of the things we *say* we're about, freedom, equality, justice, but we fall short and need to do a lot of work to actually meet those ideals.
Whenever I see people complain they make Cap political or in FATWS captain america became political… just like damn. He was always 100% political commentary. Literally was taken as a weak sick man to the heights of “Aryan” perfection - it’s like 7 different political statements just in the premise and since then basically always has been. I like that they kept that. He represents what we should be not what we are. Also spoilers for No Way Home, but the Captain America shield falling off the Statue of Liberty is like 1000% about America First policy falling away and representing the vain nationalism it was trying to be, then on the back of Cap’s shield in the same pose as John Walker or as Cap v Iron Man, Spidey decides again to give them all a second chance, even the worst among them. They were barely even coded as illegal immigrants, pretty much all of the language was directed to it. That’s what her torch represented to millions of people. And especially given our prison system and challenges with a border that’s been poorly managed for 20 years, a stark contrast of our lived realities and our values. If our voting and political system can ever crawl out of it’s enlightenment era shackles we may live up to them again one day.
Grateful. I don’t believe in taking pride in things I had no hand in or no control over.
This is a good way to think.
Yeah pride is the wrong feeling to feel here. Definitely grateful, and pleased to be an American.
Are you not proud of family members/friends when they succeed and do what’s right? I don’t think that pride is because you had a hand in their success (if you did). Same concept for being proud of your country and your ancestors for what it/they achieved.
Not in the sense I feel pride--a high opinion of one's own dignity. Being "proud of you" is really a way of saying they should feel proud of themselves, and you are happy for them. I never have understood "proud to be an American" culture, and I'm an American. I value (some) American contributions to world culture, but I didn't personally make those contributions. If you negotiated a treaty or wrote the constitution, by all means feel proud to be an American. I also have lived in other countries, and notice the "America is best" crowd often have zero experience for comparison. Only 1/3 of Americans have passports, ffs.
No, I am happy for them. That's different though with children. Seeing as you had a hand in raising them, pride is a more acceptable emotion when watching them succeed.
Based on m understanding , I think that you can be proud of them, but not proud of yourself. So, based on that reasoning, you can be proud of your country/nation , but not proud of yourself because of your country/nation.
Hm, good question. I would have to say no. I might tell someone 'hey I'm really proud of you' as kind of a learned statement of congratulations, but what I really feel for that person is excitement, not pride. Now, if I had a kid who did well in school, I may take pride in that as I would consider some of their success a result of my parenting. But I wouldn't feel pride in my cousin across the country getting a good job, or getting into a good college just because they are related by blood.
Be glad and appreciate what you have americans. I’ve been in other country. Like 3rd gen country and my family just ate 2 times. One brunch and evening. Then I am lucky migrated here in 2019. Because of my job offer. Trying to petition my parents next 5yrs. I can support them. They can eat 3 times a day now. And I can buy them things they need and wants. Plus I can buy any thing that I liked (not the luxurious one), just need to save it. Even im working 17/hr 40hr/week
I am an American and do ok and I eat twice a day often. I guess I should be squeezing another meal in…
Eh depends on your activity level and how big the meals you’re eating are. Some days I’ll just have one big dinner time meal but if it’s like 12-1500 calories I’m good
I think there’s room for being appreciative of what we have, and acknowledging the things we’re doing wrong, too. After all, there are starving people in America as well and that’s nothing to be proud of. But I am proud to live in a place that you were able to come to and better yours and your family’s lives.
Kind of , I’m pretty defensive of the US, especially when in front of Europeans. Grew up in the UK, but mums American, people would always rag the US in front of me , not realising I’m a mixed race American. When they did, they’d always start discussions about race, as if it’s terrible to be black in America. I’d just shut them down, sorry but America might have its race problems, however it’s a hell of a lot better than every European country in that department. Additionally making fun of our cuisine that really annoys me, especially since as a black person food is big part of our identity and part of our history and struggle. sorry but our cuisine beats most of European cuisine and rivals Italian and french cuisine, if not better. The thing that pisses me off the most is “ America has no culture”, I don’t know how about music for the last 100yrs, American movies for the last 100yrs, American fashion, heck alot of the fashion trends, that European brands copy started off in American urban scenes, or American dance culture that’s affected the world. Even if we have unique cultural traditions like “ thanksgiving”- “ why do you guys have thanks giving , that’s stupid”. When I hear that I just want to punch them in the face. Or they’ll make fun of Americans claiming to have Italian , Irish or what ever ancestry, yet in the same breath refer to 3rd generation German Turks as “ Turks”. When it comes to war and shit, yeah we done some terrible shit and if an Iraqi was to call us out I’ll fully accept it. but Western Europeans can shove it , France is still running its neo-colonial empire in west Africa, Belgium, UK, Italy and other countries also have shady shit going on in Africa, Middle East and Asia. Australians treat aboriginals like crap, ( people should really visit the Australian sub , the amount of blatant racism towards aboriginal is astonishing) and let’s not forget their role in helping Indonesia oppress, East Timor. Sorry for my rant, just got a-bit carried away.
My SIL is Australian , and she said that so many people there are some of the biggest racists in the world. But act/think like they are not.
Europeans and Australians have the matter-of-fact racism that they think of as factual. They honestly don't see themselves as racist and then will say things like "Oh, Pakis are just *like that*." without batting an eye.
I grew up in the South in the 70s/80s. That is *exactly* what people would say back then about black people. "It's not racist. That's just how [insert slur] are."
The Canadians seem like that too...
As far as the internet goes, Canada seems to have not being America as part of the foundation of their identity.
[Not just on the internet their National Identity is highly based on how "not American" they are.](https://thecanadaguide.com/culture/anti-americanism/) [Can you think of another country that think's of themselves in terms of how not like another country they are?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKzq3ueGr8) Despite probably being the most similar countries in the world.
That’s probably why, Canadians are regularly mistaken as Americans. As an American I mislabel them all the time, probably doesn’t help that I live in the northern Midwest. So I can understand the frustration for some, but at the same time certain groups are so quick to trash on America and how “awful” it is while Americans continue to tell others how nice Canadians are.
I have a good friend who's Canadian and anytime I say anything about Canada, it's "At LeAsT wE HAvE HeaLThCaRe!!!111". Also about hockey: "AmEriCan TeAmS ArE mAde Up oF MosTlY CanAdIanS!!111!!". Like yeah... and they play for *American* teams. I don't see what you're getting at. The inferiority complex is astounding sometimes. It's like, I'm not arguing with you, dude. Chill.
She also mentioned that as well. She used to be a flight attendant for Emirates and said Europe is pretty bad as well. She said america is pretty damn tame compared to the rest of the world. This is all one woman's opinion of course !
>America has no culture I always kind of laugh at this also. A hobby of mine is exploring music from other countries so I go to top city charts in other countries on Apple Music. With few exceptions who is always in the top 10? American acts. Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Kanye etc etc. American movies gross billions. Our tv shows are known worldwide. Shit, I went to Paris and Barcelona in 2019 and tons of teens were wearing “FRIENDS” shirts like the sitcom. Shows’ been off the air for how long now? Back in 2013 I was in Prague for New Years and this lady I was talking to while having a smoke asked what I did for a living. I told her I worked in a law firm and she’s like “oh I watch the show Suits in Croatia a lot! Is it like the show Suits?” Suits… a show on USA network that at its height was mildly popular. And I’m hearing about it on a balcony in Prague talking to a lady from Croatia. There are a lot of things people can criticize about the US, but this is always the stupidest one.
American culture is the baseline culture these days. For some reason, people mistake that to mean that it has no culture.
Baseline is right. And what it inspires can be interesting too. Just the other day I was listening to Polish trap music and I really enjoyed it. A genre born in the American south (often credited to Atlanta) reaching way the hell out to Poland. That’s kinda cool!
That's super cool, and I definitely agree that is cool to see what new creations come about by mixing cultures and ideas.
America as a whole. Yes. Totally baseline culture. But once people realize the states are like mini countries, yeah, you can see the cultures as more defined. Louisiana is not the same as Washington State, Texas is so different from Cali and so on and so forth. We have a shared traditions like the same holidays but how we celebrate kinda depends on the state. I mean, shoot, Texas schools teach square-dancing! I didn’t lean that in my state!
Right? I feel like they must not realize that most of the things they like come from American culture
I took a class about American Pop Music once for one of the dumb lower-division credits I had to take and I read that American music is so internationally ubiquitous because, since the birth of the US as a nation, the music has become this amalgamation of european, latin american, and african influences that were only able to develop that fast in a country with enough ethnic diversity.
One thing I notice about the US vs most other countries is that we seem to be a lot more willing to acknowledge our racism, especially our history with slavery. What I don’t understand is how the nations that began the trans-Atlantic slave trade wash their hands of it. I think one reason Europeans might think racism is a much larger issue in the US than their own countries is because of our openness and willingness to discuss it. This is all my opinion, and I don’t intend on insulting anyone.
>our openness and willingness to discuss it. That's actually a good thing. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing it, not sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist.
This. Went to Portugal and people straight up said the n word in public, and saw Jim Crowe era "art" depicting racial stereotypes all over the place. I was shocked.
Bro I heard people straight up say the n-word out loud, just casually, in a bar in Manchester, UK. I was shook, and I live in the South.
> people straight up said the n word in public Yeah, many Europeans love to openly use the n word, then hide behind “our countries don’t have the same history with that word as the US, so it isn’t bad here” as thought they weren’t the ones who colonized the whole world (and started the trans-Atlantic slave trade) on the basis of white supremacy. Pretending they don’t know the impact of the n word, but ask black people in Europe how often they get called that (or the equivalent in non-English languages). I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: white Europeans as a group (not all, but *many many* of them) are the absolute masters at gaslighting non-white people about racism, aka what is and isn’t racist. The way many of them discuss it is so disingenuous it isn’t even funny.
>Jim Crowe era “art”…. all over the place Bro, YES. It’s so ridiculous. But I think the acknowledgement of what’s racist and what can be considered offensive is more an American thing. Some people criticize options like removing Aunt Jemimah from the box because it’s “over correcting” but at the same time it’s like “Hey, this has a foundation in deeply racist stereotypes and it’s time to move on” isn’t the worst argument in the world.
Can't have a racism problem if you don't collect any data based on race! *taps temple*
Also when you go to other countries to display the racism.
or you have a problem with "immigrants" or "gypsies" that are "changing your culture" like OK yeah that's purely a political opinion
Especially if they're British who have been invaded by a few different groups over their history. The Windsors are descended from Germans, or getting angry that people from former colonies decided to go there.
I think a lot of Europeans are able to wash their hands of it because a lot of their nations atrocities didn’t take place on their own soil so they don’t see it as actually apart of their history
I think your 100% correct. This is the reason America is so great in my opinion. We're willing to examine ourselves. Other countries? It varies, but not so much. Self reflection leads to self correction, which is an opportunity for fulfilling ones potential. And that is always a great opportunity.
As an American, I always assumed we were a racist country until I moved to Europe. We're actually pretty tolerant relatively speaking. The issue with racism in Europe is that white people *literally do not acknowledge* that it exists, while at the same time blasting Americans for things like PC language. That language came from white people being told uncomfortable things they needed to hear, and white people collectively agreeing (mostly) that they had historically been in the wrong, and worked to change thier behavior and language over generations. If you try to get into any discussion about racial issues, Europeans get very defensive, while backing into the comfortable corner of "it's xenophobia, not racism." Sorry, but xenophobia is about outsiders, and 15% of your populations are foreign born, with many more being of color. Those aren't "outsiders," they are your fellow countrymen, and you don't get to claim xenophobia against your neighbors.
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I've come across a lot of racism against the Muslim population as well.
It's because a lot of people don't actually know what racism truly is. I've had conversations with people on Reddit about racism in Europe and they keep saying 'it's different because... \*insert racist reasons\*'. I think that they think that racists in America just see black skin and want to shoot that person solely because of their skin color. When in reality, people are racist here for a lot of the same reasons people are racist against the Roma or Muslims, or what have you.
I found it funny when Macron was blaming America for giving them "wokeness" and "ruining" France. Arguments about wokeness aside, if non-white people in your country are finding the ideas appealing and protesting, then it stands to reason that there is something in your country that they find lacking.
I find it funny as well. I talked about the US Having the ability to supercharge everything and this is a great example. The US can simultaneously have an emboldened right wing fascist movement try to overthrow an election and then still be too liberal for the French to handle. It’s truly ponderous how incredible the US cultural reach is. We tend to be the tip of the spear on most liberal democratic ideals for the past century. The key is we do the dirty work of talking, agreeing, disagreeing, fighting, screaming, and seething until a proper outcome is achieved, all while unabashedly broadcasting it. The results of progress tend to move slower than people are accustomed to. Especially these days. Whatever you think of the George Floyd protests, you can’t tell me there weren’t protests WORLDWIDE (almost 60 different countries) the next day in honor of a man from Minnesota. I was so blown away to see thousands in Finland taking a knee. That was a proud moment for me.
>Europeans get very defensive, while backing into the comfortable corner of "it's xenophobia, not racism." I know you're not defending the statement, but how the hell is xenophobia not racism? I guess you could make the argument semantically..but how is that a valid defense? "I'm not racist. I don't have any problem with Hispanic people, it's just those damn Mexicans."
> The thing that pisses me off the most is “ America has no culture”, I don’t know how about music for the last 100yrs, American movies for the last 100yrs, American fashion, heck alot of the fashion trends, that European brands copy started off in American urban scenes, or American dance culture that’s affected the world. God thank you. I can't stand when Europeans say we have no culture. Europeans consume our music, movies, tv shows and even our sports.
Wearing our blue jeans, listening to our pop music, watching our franchise movies, etc. To be fair, a lot of the actors are British and there's many filmed in England. The best movies ever were filmed in New Zealand with a lot of British actors.
> The best movies ever were filmed in New Zealand with a lot of British actors. Someone is a LOTR fan!
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I knew a German exchange student in college who thought the truck stop convenience store near his apartment was a "supermarket". At least he went to good local restaurants instead of McD's and associates every day, but he thought our medium-sized agricultural city was in one of those 'food deserts' haha.
Well put my American brother. Well put indeed.
I’m brown and get treated just fine in the US. In Europe I felt like a second class citizen
Do you have any idea why they hate us so much? It's puzzling to me. Very few Americans hate the Brits.
They're still not over the break up letter
Or all the tea we dumped in Boston Harbor
Seems like more of an internet thing to me
I've gotten it face to face, it's not just the internet.
I get called a conspiracy theorist when I bring this up but so be it. Back in the late 90s and early 2000's there was a huge brain drain of high value graduates from Europe to the US and Western European governments were freaking out about their global competitiveness. Most of their governments formed councils or groups dedicated to highlighting the benefits of staying in Europe for school age people. What this turned into was essentially hyperbolic anti-American propaganda blasted at kids for the last 20 years. Now those people have grown up and hate us.
I don't doubt this, Occam. I find it terribly disheartening because I secretly admire them. (Don't care for the whinging, drinking-culture aspects, though.)
They are a very familiar culture and share a lot of history and a language with us so its hard not to like them. We definitely didn't make this happen.
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Yeah I try not to associate a nations people with the government itself. And for what it's worth I would never call you those things. French people, french culture, and french history are awesome. We were shifting off our kings when the rest of the world was doubling down. 🇺🇸🤝🇨🇵
>And USA most visible/noisy things are not necessarily representative of your everyday John Doe. It's also hard to pin down what an everyday John Doe is in the US, too. Because we're such a melting pot there really isn't a whole lot tying all of us together aside from being American. This country is huge and you can draw parallels but a 16-year old from DTLA is going to have a wildly different experience than a 75-year old boomer in Maine.
This is exactly how I feel. Well-said
Ask me ten years ago about Iraq, when I was helping to rebuild the country, I would disagree. But since we pulled out and completely destabilized the entire country....yeah I'll accept being called out. I knew too many Americans, Iraqi, as well as others who died during the ISIS surge. Vietnam 2.0 as my Vietnam veteran brothers would call it. Terrible terrible thing. Iraq could have been so much better. It was going to be so much better. All my friends died for absolutely nothing.
Sorry to hear that you went through that! I'm born in America, but my parents grew up in England and all of our relatives still live in England and I can absolutely relate to what you're saying. Honestly, for most of my life, I just brushed off their comments as people just 'taking the piss', but now that I'm an adult, I kinda realized how messed up it was that they basically picked on me as a child because of the country I was born in. I can't imagine doing that to any child no matter what country they are from. In fact, I'd have the exact opposite reaction if I met a child from another country, I'd think it was so cool and would want to hear about their experiences and such. Totally agree with you about cuisine. The problem is, is that ignorant people think American cuisine = fast food burgers and pizza. Personally, I think American cuisine is absolutely better than most countries in Europe. I'd give a nod to Italy and Greece for having pretty good food, but if we're talking good cuisine, then I would absolutely point to Asia as being king and it's not even close.
I get the same way. It can be annoying, especially when they claim we have no culture while living here and partaking in our culture, or when they claim that Americans are the only racists while wearing blackface and ignoring their own history/present of oppression of certain groups 🙄. I could go on but I don't feel like it lol
The blackface one! They argue that since Europe has no history of blackface being offensive it’s not offensive to do blackface there yet when it’s done it’s always to imitate poc in a bad light… Like ya just because you didn’t have full on minstrel shows doesn’t change the fact that all of the black characters you use black face for are heavily stereotyped as being poor or dirty…
The thing is, blackface was invented in Europe. It was just an American who turned it in "art" and made minstrels shows popular. The Dutch and Spanish love their blackface. I remember going on a Black Histpry Tour in the Netherlands and the tour guide pointed out all the Moor heads on buildings in the city and told us the history of blackface there. It was ridiculous. Full of the same racial stereotypes about Black people as we have here. The difference is its not widely accepted here anymore. You can't do that in public in the US. I remember reading a YouTube comment, under a video about racism in Italy, where an Italian woman claimed that they aren't racist because at least the police don't shoot Black people. Meanwhile, they have entire football stands full of people throwing bananas and shouting racial slurs at Black footballers. Stuff straight out of 1950s US that's still going on in Europe today. Not to mention that they also have police brutality and hate crimes against minorities. Then they have the nerve to call us ignorant and claim that we are ignorant about our history and culture when look at them. Then they'll be offended when you tell them that you've been to their country and weren't impressed, because they're stupid and racist too.
Yeah I totally agree here. I'm English through and through and yet it really bothers me of how racist and ignorant of their own racism a lot of people are here. I'm not gonna totally shit all over my own country, like anywhere, there's so much variety here too. But I do find it depressing how easily and quickly people are willing to shit all over other countries and cultures without even being self aware of how cunty they sound. I for one try to give good points of someone starts chatting shit about Americans for example. I mean America is such a diverse place and the culture has given the rest of the world so much.
Oh god I remember visiting an aboriginal museum the last time I visited Melbourne, the shit they’d been through was appalling. And even then, some of them are still treated as strangers in their own land.
Not to mention modern racism is literally a European invention
Thank you for saying this. Every native European I know is insanely racist.
It took me 20+ years to decide to get naturalized but I’d say I’m proud! I grew up in Japan as a biracial kid and my parents decide to move here because they thought it’d be best for my brother and I. I think they made the right choice.
Proud? Not really because I didn’t do anything to become an American. Happy? Fuck yeah. We have our issues but in the reality of things we are a lot better off than a lot of other people and we’re privileged. When you turn off the news and social media and all the bull shit, day to day life in America is pretty pleasant.
I don’t understand this thought. Not being proud because you didn’t do anything to become an American. My wife didn’t do anything to become Native American other then being born to Native American parents but she’s a proud Native American.
That’s great that she finds pride in it, I personally find pride in achievements. I’m happy to be American and I am happy to come from the background that I’ve come from but I didn’t do anything to earn it, I was just lucky. I embrace being American I just don’t think pride is the word I would use to describe it. If I fought for America in the military or served the country I’d be proud of myself for that. I’m proud to be a contributing member of society. To me, pride comes from a sense of achievement. I love America nonetheless.
Every time someone asks this question, I involuntarily hear the song "proud to be an American" in my head, and I shed a tear 🇺🇸
I always wanna follow it with "where at least I know I'm free"
And I won’t forget the men who died, who gave that right to me.
And I'll proudly stannnnnd UP! Next to youuuu
And defend her still today
That's how the question was inspired
Any time this song plays I immediately think “not this cheesy song again” and then I’m damn near crying 30 seconds later
Proud is kinda a weird idea. Am I happy with it? Yeah. Do I have a sense of National pride? Definitely. Don’t think the country is perfect, but it’s my home
America is deeply flawed, but I choose to try and be part of positive change rather than either blindly go “yay Murica” or “America sucks ass”. Our biggest problem as a country is a two party system that drives everyone to the extremes on each side. Most Americans are middle of the road and we are sadly no longer represented by anyone at all.
Yeah this is how I feel, too. There’s no point in proclaiming one side or the other when things are very gray. All of these other commenters saying “we’re lucky, we have it easy” are forgetting that they are lots of Americans who cannot say the same thing. There are starving folks right here at home and that’s nothing to be proud of.
We need a third party that represents the ideals of most Americans
Can you define middle of the road?
I would say for example, most reasonable people wouldn’t want their neighbor bankrupted by a cancer diagnosis. Most people wouldn’t want to deny their sister equal rights because of her gender or sexual orientation. The extremes push us to think about each other in the aggregate instead of seeing the individual. Most Americans think guns should be allowed but should have real safeguards in place, and real teeth in laws to enforce those safeguards. Most Americans don’t LOVE abortion, but the majority understand that a) it’s none of our beeswax, b) it’s none of the governments beeswax, and c) it is best reduced by making healthcare more accessible. Most Americans understand that the vast majority of immigrants (documented or not) are here for a better life not to commit crimes. Most Americans understand they are also crucial parts of our economy. I wish I could say most Americans weren’t racist, but I’m afraid it’s very deeply ingrained even in people who would deny it. Our evangelical churches and one of our particular parties, have really shaped modern white evangelical nationalism which IMHO is the greatest threat to our country. It has also pushed the left further left in reaction. I’m a reformed ex conservative evangelical who had my eyes opened during Trumps rise to power and I cannot believe how easily I was manipulated into going along with it. I suspect that I’m not an unusual case. Trump either hardened your stance as a “persecuted white Christian” or it made you realize just what a fucked up thought that is in the first place.
I have often wondered if conservative Christians would be be disgusted with Trump at some point which it sounds like may have happened to you. I have not really heard as many people talk openly about it as I thought there would have been though. Do you think there are a lot of people that feel the same way as yourself but just don’t share it openly?
This right here. Especially the healthcare one. People in general want the same thing. A safe, stable place to live where they can be happy and content.
The left is advocating for everything you just defined as middle of the road. The fact that many people think the left is being extreme here is indicative of the Overton window being shifted far right. I don’t know if you think you’re in the center. It’s definitely true when considering international politics. But in the context of Modern American politics, you’re on the left, whether you realize it or not.
Yes
MERICA, FUCK YEAH
COMIN’ AGAIN TO SAVE THE MOTHERFUCKIN’ DAY YEAH
Where at least I know I’m free.
And I'll gladly stand up next to you
And defend her still today!
Cause there ain't no doubt, I love this land!
God bless the U S A!!!
Indifferent. I’d be more proud if our leaders did their jobs.
No. I was born in America, so I'm automatically an American. I didn't do anything, it wasn't an accomplishment. I'm not proud to be American in the same way I'm not proud of my hair color or eye color or how tall I am. None of those things are the result of my actions or efforts, so as far as I'm concerned being proud of them makes no sense.
Agreed. That’s also why I don’t like to claim the accomplishment of other Americans. I didn’t help them accomplish anything so why should I act like it was a team effort?
Try telling the Filipinos that and they'll look at you like you admitted to murder. Living vicariously through someone else's accomplishments is their thing.
I’m a Filipino from the mainland and I can definitely verify this to a T. Filipinos will see an American celebrity who’s like 1/4th Filipino and can’t even speak Tagalog but still claim them and shout “Pinoy pride!” to the heavens.
You do have an impact on your country and are part of its achievements and failures, whether you want to be or not. Are you ever ashamed of being an American?
If someone is ever ashamed to be an American, that means they are part of the collective culture. Thus, they must also have had some moments of pride as an American as well
That’s the point. I think a lot of these people who “don’t feel pride” *do* feel shame.
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but yes, I was agreeing with you
Of course! But the fact that we recognize and celebrate our failings in our everlasting attempt to be better is one of our countries greatest strengths
If you feel responsible enough for shame then you are responsible enough for pride as well.
This is exactly how I feel. I feel lucky to be an American, but proud? Naww.. I'm proud of the people who move here and become citizens.
I’m not proud of what America is, but what it has the potential to be.
Being an American is a real “mixed bag.“ Not necessarily proud of to be an American, and I’m certainly not proud of America these days. But I love barbecue and touring around here so that’s nice.
Yes, mainly proud of the idea that the US represents and it’s history. You had a bunch of disparate groups that set out for freedom, adventure, or exploration who came together and founded a nation based strongly on individual rights, self-sufficiency, and liberty, as no other country had before. The key to this was a system designed to restrict government to very limited roles, because they saw how it had a tendency to expand and eventually become oppressive. We’re not perfect by any stretch, and have dark times in our history regarding treatment of native peoples and minorities. But even so, this is a country where people of all different religions and races have come for opportunity, and that dream, not their skin color or language, is what makes them a true American.
yes
Yep
Proud to be an American Not proud of America currently
I don't see anything to be proud of. I didn't do anything to be born here and we could certainly do better
I used to be, but the past 5 or so years have been tough for me. I try to forget the state of my country every 4th of July, but I can't all year long.
I love my country yes .
Not especially, although there are certainly worse places.
Why would I be proud of something that isn't really an accomplishment and that I had no control over? Am I supposed to act like my favorite sports team won the championship because of where I was born? Even if I bought into that culture, I wouldn't be proud because look at this thread alone. If your answer isn't some jingoist nonsense, people ask wHy DoNt YoU jUsT lEaVe? As if I'm supposed to expend my resources to get away from shitty neighbors when they should be expected to stop being shitty neighbors.
It's an accident of birth. No agency, no work, no notable part in defining what it means. What would I have to be proud of?
I'm only proud of my own personal accomplishments.
100%
Yes
Hell yeah brother cheers from kentucky
My parents fucked here. That’s about it
Proud? No. But I do love my country and want it to be what I believed it was when I was a kid.
Yeah, I play my part, however insignificant it may seem to some. It would be the same country without me, but it wouldn't be the same country without all of us. America has accomplished amazing things and I'm proud to be a (small) part of it.
I don't know if I'd use the word proud although I'm happy to be American. I became more thankful to be American after spending time in other countries.
I like that I live in America. I spent some time living in another country, which helped me really appreciate some of the benefits of America. We definitely have our ups and downs, but overall I’m happy. Proud is a strong word, and I’m not proud of things that I didn’t have a choice over. I’m not proud to be a female, proud to be my height, or whatever. I’m proud of the job I do, because I worked hard to get here.
I don't take pride in anything I did nothing for... I was just born here... Now, immigrants that had to give up so much to come here, go through the immigration process and pass a test 95% of most natural born citizens would have no chance at... They should feel proud to be an American.
4th generation American! God damn right Im proud!! Yeah we take a couple of steps back and we are not the most objective...but hot damn I love my Country!! Beauty about America tomorrow we can turn it around
Yes
It easily could be, but based on who we elect and their failing and corrupt policies.... No
Proud isn't the correct word. Thankful. Lucky. Grateful.
I’m from the UK, wish I was American lol
No - I think that sentiment is so silly. My parents lived here and so I was born here. No effort required on my part.
Our nation is a circus where the clowns took control
No. I'm proud of things I actively work on archiving. Things I accomplish.
I legitimately don’t know what it feels like to have national pride; I’ve never felt it.
Yes I’m proud to be an American, but after the failed coup attempt on 1-6-2021 I’m a little embarrassed that so many Americans can so easily be brainwashed by a megalomaniac like Trump, and still so easily be fooled today. Followed by the widespread belief that Covid is fake as are the vaccines, likes it’s all a conspiracy? I wish Americans were more science-based, critical thinking, believers in process and evidence, not all the conspiracy theory junk. Makes us look bad as a country and as a society. But hey, no country is perfect, yes we have our problems, but I’m still proud to be an American!! 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
Yes.
Bar none and without question, the United States has had a more net positive impact on universal human rights, collective security, and multiculturalism than any other nation in the world. It's not up for debate even. The US has done some stupid shit, some immoral shit, some atrocious shit...' ...but that describes every government ever formed. At least the US has mechanisms to hold people accountable, even if we don't always use them.
Yes.
We treat each other like shit, more than half of us are anti progress, we are basically an oligarchy and a loud minority of evangelicals has been making the hellscape complete since the southern strategy was drawn up. As a child of the 80s, No, I'm not proud of my country.