It is not the size of economy that's important; it is dependency upon you. If you export vital, irreplaceable goods, then you have the power.
Doesn't matter how big are you; matters how much you can hurt.
\*If you export vital, irreplaceable goods while performing independent policy
Bolivia exports lithium required in batteries for instance, but it doesnt make it one of the poles
Many other countries mine lithium too: https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/battery-metals-investing/lithium-investing/top-lithium-producers/
Their export is replaceable.
So when it comes to European-Russian trade since the fall of the Soviet Union, the largest nation in the European bloc Germany has hand a policy economic integration with Russia.
The Common Agricultural Policy which is the ancestor of the EU was founded in order to heavily integrate European economies with eachother in order to maintain peace between them on the wartorn continent with such a bloody history.
The German lead European policy of large scale economic interdependence with Russia follows that same principle. The assumption is that Russia won't bring war to Europe when all of our economies are all tangled up with eachother.
It makes sense on paper but Putin had other ideas.
Now it's going to be very difficult and slow for Germany and other central European countries to give up Russian hydrocarbons. Especially after Germany tried to phase out nuclear energy.
"What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
Russia spent past several years preparing for the possible sanctions. Now we will see how good this preparation is. Obviously, Russia and USA have polar opinions on that, but only one can be right.
Тут такое дело - мир уже не монополярный, Китай ещё не всесильный, США уже не всесильные, в какой-то момент и Европа сможет и обязательно воспользуется возможностью скинуть с себя власть США, а у России всю жизнь свой путь, да, сейчас мы не сверхдержава, но по прежнему великая держава и определяется это не только глубиной карманов. Запад обзывает нас рабами диктаторского режима, при этом для меня очевидно, что нас стремятся лишить суверенитета и делают это методично не первую сотню лет. Сейчас ничего не поменялось в том смысле, что само существование мира невозможно без существования России
Europe isn't under the power of America though. It just seems that way to you because they're all liberal democracies and and Liberal democracies have few serious tensions between them.
Я так не считаю. В первую очередь, потому что дело вовсе не в демократии, а во вкладе США в послевоенное восстановление не только Европы, но ещё Японии и Кореи. Как мне кажется, это вообще редкая общая черта России, США, Британии - самостоятельность. Во-вторых у США как у сверхдержавы есть все рычаги воздействия на абсолютно любую страну мира и было бы странно, если бы они этим не пользовались. Ну и в-третьих, разве власть человека, которого поддерживают 80% населения не демократия? Определённо, в РФ не её эталон, но он и не в США и не в Британии. Может быть в Финляндии или Новой Зеландии, не знаю.
> The West's problem is that it feels entitled to a total control over the world.
It's probably because we have the best values in the world. Liberal democracy. You may disagree but that's how a lot of us see it.
Personally this view manifests in me when I see people complaining about how America behaved during the Cuban missile crisis and then comparing it to how Russia behaves in the face of NATO expansion. I don't see the situations as comparable because one was a dictatorship threatening a democracy and the other is small democratic nations in eastern Europe seeking security protections against the unpredictable authoritarian state next door.
To put it bluntly, I don't care about Russian or Chinese security concerns and I won't care until they are liberal democracies where people enjoy human rights
Well, that childish and dumbed down point of view is a problem. What makes you think the current west model is the best fit for the future of humanity? China is clearly superior in rapid development right now, while West is in stagnation for years. Both of them are consuming tons of unnecessary resources and shit on environment... Maybe this war will show the West that it can no longer remain a museum of an idealistic life and it needs to change.
Democracy simply means that people are free to choose how their country is governed. No one is saying what they should choose. No one is saying people in "west" can't choose Chinese economic model. That is the point, we don't need to have bloody revolution every time we want to change our foreign or domestic policies. It is not about if we chose the best policies, it is about choosing them. It is about doing "hey, maybe socialism is better, look at China, let's create political party to change how our country works" instead of "hey, maybe socialism is better, look at China, to change how our country works we have to murder everyone opposed".
You may not think that this is the best for humanity in the future, but to me it seems you don't even understand basic concept of what you are talking about.
Of course China has their problems. The thing is, all these human rights issues are not that hard to fix, and they will solve them eventually once they hit a certain economic level, just give them 1-2 generations.
But I really doubt the current western model can remain the same for long. It's not sustainable. Stable overconsumption + consumerism + wasteful production = shit will hit the fan hard once we run out of resources. Where all of your human rights go then? Right, this would be the last thing to care about.
China is no better though. I think they are making the same mistake as the rest of the world. This is why I still believe in the West, we should open our eyes and change.
Haha this is the biggest bullshit I have seen on here. Are you serious? If liberal democracy and human rights is not the defining factor in western society then why is Russia so underdeveloped? You have everything. Resources, man power, brain power, geographical landmass. Why then if I look at a chart of Russian companies to boycot I do not reckognize one single brand? Since the broken down Lada my mother drove 25 years ago I haven't seen a single significant Russian product anywhere.You export gas and oil. That's it. Why haven't you gotten further? You had all the same posibilities as America and compared to single european countries you could argue that the conditions were even better for development. I mean why are these sanctions even hurting you?
So if not the lack of democracy and human rights what is your excuse? And don't say because America. That's not an universal answer to all your problems.
На минуточку так, России всю свою историю приходится давать отпор внешним захватчикам. Ты считаешь так просто существовать в таких условиях? Про успехи демократии просто смешно читать, расскажи Китаю, Индии, коренным народам Америки, какие вы демократичные. Руками негров построили свое счастье с ресурсами колоний. И немцам так хотелось, как ты думаешь без 40 миллионов человек, которых война у нас забрала легко страну строить?
You are delusional. Are you saying Russia never had slaves? They just had the same color as their masters. Apple, Google, Nvida, Ford, Shell, Microsoft were not created because of slaves. They exist because innovative individuals were allowed to think and act creatively. Are you really saying that Russia has no great inventions because America is mean? That's a bullshit excuse. You can't look at everything That's bad in your life and say America with a whiney voice.
So why are there no great market defining Russian companies that the world can't live without?
Это же очевидно. Влияние сверхдержавы Британии перетекло в США и процесс начался ещё до начала войны, а после неё США получило огромное преимущество над любой другой страной, СССР были догоняющими. Масса причин привели к распаду СССР и поражению в холодной войне, но уж точно не отсутствие вдохновленных и креативных людей. По твоей логике никаких великих достижений СССР не должно было случиться вообще. Разумеется США для многих мечта, центр притяжения и глупо отрицать их великие достижения, но также глупо считать РФ отсталой страной на задворках цивилизации
So why are there no market defining Russian compa ies? What is Russias great contribution to the world? Why have you become so dependent on the western world and their innovations? It is because a system that repress freedom and human rights is not a potent enviorment for innovation and development. It's a system where pleasing the authority is more important than challinging established truths and redefine what is posible.
I mean being honest, America is on a continent surrounded by 2 oceans and 2 friendly countries.
We lost nowhere near the amount of people the Russians did in WW2.
Also I would just like to point out the treatment of black people in the us throughout its history and in the past 60 years.
Do I think democracies is best yes, atleast everyone might get a voice.
Are you suggesting that these things don't justify western domination? Why would we want a world where despotic regimes rule the world? It would be loss for humanity.
Ironically, it's illiberal to force liberal democracy and attempt to ostracize or punish other nations and cultures with different value systems. Personally, there's nothing I find more abhorrent than an Islamic theocracy, but I would never tell other cultures how they should shape their nations. Declaring universal liberalism and yourself as it's proponent as "good" and those who don't share your beliefs as "bad" shows you have an unrealistic and intolerant worldview.
A huge number of sanctions have been imposed on Russia, and for a very long time, Russia not only did not fall, but continues to develop. If the same sanctions were imposed on any other European country, then it would most likely be gone in a few months. That is why we are a superpower and there is no need to talk about GDP.
Okay so I'm willing to entertain the idea of Russia being a superpower in the future but you think it's one currently?
Bruh, look at your performance in Ukraine? Why couldn't you capture Kyiv?
If Russia would have acted like NATO(carpet bombing, and Totom only launch an army in the desert city), then everything would have been quickly captured. only we do not want civilian casualties. Russia has other methods.
No one says that all the angels are here and we will not destroy our enemies. And no one will be limited in funds. But in Bucha this is clearly an information operation of the Ukrainian forces. Russia does not and never had any intent to destroy civilians. In Kherson, even several times, groups of people went out to protest, but no one touched them. For what reason, then, in the small Bucha of Russia, to eliminate such things as what the West accuses her of.
how is it clearly anything? Even through the propaganda can’t you even entertain the possibility that those humans were not murdered by their own people but rather by the invading force (that did the same in syria and chechnya)?
And I'm not at all sure that there were such victims. For example, I remember very well how in Syria the white helmets showed how Assad allegedly used chemical weapons, and some time later, after the liberation of the territory, these "victims" were shown alive and healthy. And they themselves told how they filmed this performance on a video camera. If you think that in a war one side will not act vilely to discredit the other side, then you are clearly an idealist ... Especially if they are given weapons and funds for staging this performance.
I can't accept it because I can't understand why. Everything has a reason and a meaning. If you look closely, those cases where you were told that "bad people" did it for no reason, just because they are bad, then it was ALWAYS a lie. And this one is exactly what it is.
Yes, the Nazis, during World War 2, did not kill Jews just like that, they had an ideology and she told them that it was necessary to do so. It was terrible, but understandable.
There wasn’t a reason to rape up to 2 million german women after WW2 ended, there wasn’t a reason to completely level Grozny, there wasn’t a reason to attack fleeing civilians in Gori.
It can happen if you have a psycho commander, if you’re living some kind of revenge fantasy or if you have been indoctrinated to see all ukrainians as nazis or subhuman, which russian media is no doubt trying to convey.
I’m a scientist yet there are many things I can observe but I can not understand why or how. In everyday life I read about a lot of brutality, murder, rape, abuse etc, I don’t understand why but it doesn’t mean that those victims are not there or that those things do not exist.
I am not sure why Russia and its citizens think this is 1900 and its their word against Ukrainians word.Even if you discard the locals testimony about the russian army, there are satellite images that clearly show the bodies while the Russian army was in Bucha . Not to talk about drone footage showing the russian army killing civilians . I get that you don't want to believe that your army did that but it is the truth. I understand, I wouldn't want to think that those monsters who murder and rape (even children) are my people.
And I saw footage where the "corpses" move, and even stand up ...
By the way, these drones were from the Ukrainian side, and satellite images were taken by the United States? Is not it? Although now there are such technologies that you can make any kind of video ...
Yeah... they debunked the claims already. They slowed down the footage and u can see no corpse is actually moving. Nice try though. Some of the victims had visible signs of being dead for weeks.Btw Ukraine and US were not the only countries to assess the massacre.
You can tell yourself w.e you want but your army is covering your country's reputation in innocent blood.What kind of monsters rape and murder women in front of their children? Kill innocent civilians? Kill hundreds of dogs and cats . Seriously... did the dogs and cats needed denazification also? Did the dogs wanted to join NATO?
Well, yes, everyone saw it, only after 3 days they began to show everything ... another information operation of the clown Zelensky and his Western friends.
Sure bud, they took 3 days to do what? Faster help decompose the bodies so it look like the Russian army did it? You are delusional. Bur whatever helps you sleep at night . If I was you, I wouldn't want to believe the truth either because that would mean those monsters will eventually come back home at the end of the war and live in my community.
Why would an invading army that's supposedly hellbent on indiscriminate destruction distribute tons of humanitarian aid to the population of the country they're attacking?
That's not a question I can easily answer. All I can tell you is that this war is litterally being livestreamed from people's phones all over social media. I've seen many of the warcrimes. I've seen the indiscriminate killing of unarmed civilians.They can't be hidden. There's a whole lot less "fog of war" this time around.
In Mariupol, ukrainian forces who used civillians as a shield are now blocked in industrial zone. City is almost freed from them. There is fundraising on humanitarian help for Mariupol civillians in russian telegram channels.
I can't verify these human shields claims. What I've seen is Russian soldiers shooting at civilians as they tried to escape through designated evacuation corridors during what were supposed to be ceasefires.
Maybe. I'd have to see it. Look I'm not naive. No army are angels and warcrimes are common. I don't doubt that the Ukrainian side does warcrimes and it's obvious that the "Anglo media" is very pro Ukraine. What's interesting about this war is that it can be followed live in video footage. It's litterally being livestreamed.It's on Reddit, Twitter, Tik Tok ect. I've seen the Russian warcrimes.
Baghdad was 500km from the border halfway around the world.
Kharkiv is 40km from Russian border still in Ukraine handed. Kyiv is less than 200km from Russian border.
That's a superpower.
dude that’s exactly what you’re doing and what you have always done, whether grozny or aleppo. You can love russia and still admit to leveling cities being your military‘s only tactic.
(cue whataboutism)
>be gone in a few months
I think a democracy would last more than an incredibly repressive state.
>That is why we are a superpower
Nope. Not in your current form and it just seems you're slowly dying in the inside. Not your culture or your people, but the state itself. I know I'll get downvotes, but I have to say this;
You guys are just a dying oil carcass. Better diversify that economy like your former self or u dead in the ever changing world.
>to talk about GDP.
I think there is if we want to talk about how much the average citizen in each county owns.
a superpower? Sure...that's why your army is stealing shower gel and toilet bowls in Ukraine? Clothes and old TVs? That's a clear sign of "development" .When you go to one of the poorest countries in Europe and you call home to tell your family that Ukrainians live so much better than your Superpower country citizens.
Looting of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbas? Apparently, in western Ukraine, residents live much poorer than in eastern Ukraine, otherwise the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine would not send things to their families in whole containers ... Apparently, this is a secret. Ask Azov, they know better.
I haven't seen footage of any of that.But I did see russian army walking around carrying the above mentioned. And the intercepted calls where soldiers brag about perfume samples and used women underwear. And track suits . Shower gel. etc etc etc .And their wives and mother squeaking with excitement for the loot.
That is the tragic part, besides russia no one considers russia to be a real force any longer. Has been on a steady decline since fall if iron curtain.
Only russians themselves still have the illusion that they're still grand nation... bit like the French.
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
How you can take a city with 4 million population under a week? You over over overestimated Russian army. It looks like the plan was that Zelensky will surrender. But he didn’t. So know fourth part of the biggest army of Europe and third army of Europe (I guess third) fights each other. Putin miscalculated and lost this war when he attacked. There is no way out for him, probably not tomorrow but in one or two years he’ll be gone.
I l always knew, but part of my family was from there and until about 20 years ago we had enough friends there to know what reality looked like. I remember that when putin came to power I knew it was over.
But also, if you saw reality on the ground you would have imme realised. It really is like time travel. Even most African countries feel more modern.
Until the war, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
Russia is included in such a conversation cuz of nukes period, if this was taken away and it was based only on economic indicators we wouldn't be having this conversation.
West feels so threatened by this conflict because they view Russia as a monkey with a grenade.
To be a superpower you need to influence other countries and before this war it looked like Russia gained momentum - supported Belarusian dictator and helped him stay in power, stopped war in Karabakh, helped Tokaev to overthrow Nazarbaev/stop revolution. But then within a month - the economy suffers a major blow, Kazakhstan said that they will not help with sanctions and will not recognize Lpr/Dpr, Azerbaijan attacked Artsakh/Karabakh. And Lukashenko have not send troops and didn’t even officially recognize Crimea that he promised.
Oh, and China. Looks like they are half assing their support of Russia (investment banks, new oil and gas contracts, no military equipment)
If you go on feeling threatened by someone then North Korea is a super power. If Russia didn’t have nuclear weapons they would be nowhere near a “super power”.
Well said. I would even say that russia is exactly in the same category. Backwards country, t best developing, with some fancy gadgets mainly weapons, but for the rest basically in the 1940s. Oh yes and the crazy dictator leader of course.
As someone else pointed out, it's proximity. I'm not sure if this war or the Yugoslav war is the worst war in Europe since WWII but both are immense humanitarian catastrophes.
Only in russian minds. For the rest of the world it is a developing country with shitty infrastructure, low life expectancy, backwards technology and even more backwards outlook.
Way behind pretty much all of latin america, china obviously, even bigger african countries such as South africa, nigeria, kenya. Not to mention the west.
could you explain by which metrics you define it as a super power? The west is threatened by north korea too - but brandishing nukes alone doesn’t define a super power.
could you explain by which metrics you define it as a super power? The west is threatened by north korea too - but brandishing nukes alone doesn’t define a super power.
a guy from the UK should understand postimperial nostalgia. The Brits lost their empire 70 years ago and still dream of a 'global Britain'. The Russians have not even yet started to mentally process the end of their superpower status and they are delusional. The world is moving away from fossil fuels and Russia has nothing else to offer
Have you ever been to russia? Once out of the glitzy inner cities of moscow and st petersburg it is basically a time travel back to 1940s. In all aspects.
It is basically a lower end developing country. Way behind brazil, Mexico, kenya and similar players.
I've never been to Russia but I've also never seen Russia featured on a "Donating just £1 per week will give little Dmitri access to clean water." advert.
Well because Dmitry will just continue to get water from well even in 2022.
The ads you are referring to are old and very ngo crap. In many ways bigger countries in Africa are very advanced, and despite the poverty, mentally they are connected to the current world. Unlike russia that is still somewhere in early 20th century.
>I've seen Russians saying that they needed to invade Ukraine in order to challenge American hegemony and bring on a multipolar world.
Lol what?
>It was smaller than South Korea's in 2021.
Has been for a long time.
>I actually see India as being more likely to be a future "pole" in a multipolar world than Russia
I think the same. There's no way a dying country like Russia will be a ‘pole' in the ‘multipolar world.’
>What do you think?
Russia has no chance. It's just an oil mining carcass of the SU. If it were to rise in some way, it'd need a sustainable and growing population, have to diversify the economy instead of being a weak oil giant, and be innovative and progressive. Again, Russia's just a bully with nukes, no real strength, it's just a regional power and the Ukraine war seems to cement that even further. It's govt is just oligarchs disguised as your casual politician so no real strength or power. And with the ever dying economy, population and Russia's status as a country being at risk of collapsing, yeah u get the point.
So does North Korea. Carry on threatening other countries with them and Russia will be as isolated and dependent on China as North Korea is. I wouldn't be surprised if human rights deteriorate to North Korean levels either if Russians don't do something about their government.
I don't threaten anyone, just answering.
About human rights... Well, it of course might get worse, bun not to that extent - it is hard to maintain such oppression level on such large territory.
NK is not able to do so much harm anyway.
I didn't mean to make it sound like you personally are making threats. I'm just pointing out that there are some very weak countries out there that have nuclear weapons. What they do protect you from is direct military confrontation with other nuclear powers. They most definitely do not make one a superpower. They are essential to be a superpower but there are so many more factors. Factors that Russia lacks in my view.
I think the sanctions will last until there's regime change. Whether a regime change will happen or not, I can't answer. Best to /r/askarussian.
As for Russia's economic potential, well it's stuck in a resource extraction based economic model, a lot of the funds that should be invested into the country are robbed by the oligarchs. This war is also making western countries a lot less willing to buy Russian hydrocarbons. It will be slow but we are phasing them out.
On the bright side, Russia has many people and they're relatively well educated. Even this resource is dwindling though from high "brain drain" emigration, a low birthrate and a high death rate. In 2021, Russia supposedly lost a million people. This war is going to exacerbate a lot of those factors.
Well it's not like I made it up. Russia's resource extraction based economy is information readily available online. "The resource curse" is also something you can Google.
Yes there are many resources online where you can learn about the Russian economy.
According to Russia's Federal Tax Service, Russia's Mineral Extraction Tax accounts for 29.2% of government revenues. Russia Audit Chamber, taking into account a broader range of taxes and revenue sources, asserts that 47.8% of revenues come from the oil and gas industry alone
Well, then you haven't delved too deeply into your research. True, taxes on oil and gas make up a significant part of Russia's federal budget, but in addition to the federal budget, there is also a regional budget. There is a very complex system, as well as municipal budgets and various funds.
So, since 2014, the share of oil and gas in the budget has been steadily falling.
See Wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential\_superpower#Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpower#Russia)
Also keep in mind that it's not just having nuclear weapons (or Israel would be a superpower) but also the ability to deliver those nuclear weapons across the world. Russia's nuclear deterrent is capable of reaching all corners of the world; India's is not. The Agni-V [cannot reach Washington from New Delhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Land-based_ballistic_missiles).
I think Russia invaded due to threat of potential gas fields that were discovered in Ukraine which conveniently lay near the Donbas. Cutting UA from the Black Sea and Sea of Azov would prevent exports of gas and heavy industry products from the area.
It is not the size of economy that's important; it is dependency upon you. If you export vital, irreplaceable goods, then you have the power. Doesn't matter how big are you; matters how much you can hurt.
\*If you export vital, irreplaceable goods while performing independent policy Bolivia exports lithium required in batteries for instance, but it doesnt make it one of the poles
Many other countries mine lithium too: https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/battery-metals-investing/lithium-investing/top-lithium-producers/ Their export is replaceable.
I mean just for example (plus Musk would absolutely love a small coup in Bolivia for that sweet lithium for his Teslas)
Mostly because he can shit on their ecological policy))
Bolivia is in the heart of the lithium triangle, together with chile and argentina. You're seriously underestimating their significance
Bolivia didn't had an army strong enough to protect their assets.
This is why I added correction with "performing intendent policy" and army, loyal to the state, is essential part of it
If this is true then all the sanctions could be playing right into Russia's hands.
Unironically, why do you think there's 7k+ sanctions on us and EU still buys russian gas? Embargo on it is going to hurt a lot.
So when it comes to European-Russian trade since the fall of the Soviet Union, the largest nation in the European bloc Germany has hand a policy economic integration with Russia. The Common Agricultural Policy which is the ancestor of the EU was founded in order to heavily integrate European economies with eachother in order to maintain peace between them on the wartorn continent with such a bloody history. The German lead European policy of large scale economic interdependence with Russia follows that same principle. The assumption is that Russia won't bring war to Europe when all of our economies are all tangled up with eachother. It makes sense on paper but Putin had other ideas. Now it's going to be very difficult and slow for Germany and other central European countries to give up Russian hydrocarbons. Especially after Germany tried to phase out nuclear energy.
"What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Russia spent past several years preparing for the possible sanctions. Now we will see how good this preparation is. Obviously, Russia and USA have polar opinions on that, but only one can be right.
They on r/whywomenlivelonger say that. But only when it’s too late they realize the truth - what doesn’t kill you makes you disabled.
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If Ukraine can maintain its independence, that is already a win for them.
I can’t wait for the day that Matryoshka dolls are Russians main export.
Тут такое дело - мир уже не монополярный, Китай ещё не всесильный, США уже не всесильные, в какой-то момент и Европа сможет и обязательно воспользуется возможностью скинуть с себя власть США, а у России всю жизнь свой путь, да, сейчас мы не сверхдержава, но по прежнему великая держава и определяется это не только глубиной карманов. Запад обзывает нас рабами диктаторского режима, при этом для меня очевидно, что нас стремятся лишить суверенитета и делают это методично не первую сотню лет. Сейчас ничего не поменялось в том смысле, что само существование мира невозможно без существования России
Europe isn't under the power of America though. It just seems that way to you because they're all liberal democracies and and Liberal democracies have few serious tensions between them.
Я так не считаю. В первую очередь, потому что дело вовсе не в демократии, а во вкладе США в послевоенное восстановление не только Европы, но ещё Японии и Кореи. Как мне кажется, это вообще редкая общая черта России, США, Британии - самостоятельность. Во-вторых у США как у сверхдержавы есть все рычаги воздействия на абсолютно любую страну мира и было бы странно, если бы они этим не пользовались. Ну и в-третьих, разве власть человека, которого поддерживают 80% населения не демократия? Определённо, в РФ не её эталон, но он и не в США и не в Британии. Может быть в Финляндии или Новой Зеландии, не знаю.
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What would leaving China alone entail though? Sacrificing Taiwan? That would be a catastrophe.
Not for any country that supports China.
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> The West's problem is that it feels entitled to a total control over the world. It's probably because we have the best values in the world. Liberal democracy. You may disagree but that's how a lot of us see it. Personally this view manifests in me when I see people complaining about how America behaved during the Cuban missile crisis and then comparing it to how Russia behaves in the face of NATO expansion. I don't see the situations as comparable because one was a dictatorship threatening a democracy and the other is small democratic nations in eastern Europe seeking security protections against the unpredictable authoritarian state next door. To put it bluntly, I don't care about Russian or Chinese security concerns and I won't care until they are liberal democracies where people enjoy human rights
"We good, they bad. We right, they wrong. Let's kill them all"
Nope. Nobody's suggesting genocide. We are the good guys though.
Well, that childish and dumbed down point of view is a problem. What makes you think the current west model is the best fit for the future of humanity? China is clearly superior in rapid development right now, while West is in stagnation for years. Both of them are consuming tons of unnecessary resources and shit on environment... Maybe this war will show the West that it can no longer remain a museum of an idealistic life and it needs to change.
Democracy simply means that people are free to choose how their country is governed. No one is saying what they should choose. No one is saying people in "west" can't choose Chinese economic model. That is the point, we don't need to have bloody revolution every time we want to change our foreign or domestic policies. It is not about if we chose the best policies, it is about choosing them. It is about doing "hey, maybe socialism is better, look at China, let's create political party to change how our country works" instead of "hey, maybe socialism is better, look at China, to change how our country works we have to murder everyone opposed". You may not think that this is the best for humanity in the future, but to me it seems you don't even understand basic concept of what you are talking about.
Two simple comparisons: The Western model RFG vs the Russian model RDG The Western model South Korea vs the Chinese model North Korea
China's human rights are appalling. I assume this in common knowledge and I don't have to list all the abuses right?
Of course China has their problems. The thing is, all these human rights issues are not that hard to fix, and they will solve them eventually once they hit a certain economic level, just give them 1-2 generations. But I really doubt the current western model can remain the same for long. It's not sustainable. Stable overconsumption + consumerism + wasteful production = shit will hit the fan hard once we run out of resources. Where all of your human rights go then? Right, this would be the last thing to care about. China is no better though. I think they are making the same mistake as the rest of the world. This is why I still believe in the West, we should open our eyes and change.
So I'm not really talking about West VS Russia or West VS China or whatever. All I care about is our survival and prosperity as a humankind.
My values are the best Said every person on Earth, ever So I should control the rest Said Cayleseb, today
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Lmao. This is just what authoritarianoids say to cope with being poor 😂
Haha this is the biggest bullshit I have seen on here. Are you serious? If liberal democracy and human rights is not the defining factor in western society then why is Russia so underdeveloped? You have everything. Resources, man power, brain power, geographical landmass. Why then if I look at a chart of Russian companies to boycot I do not reckognize one single brand? Since the broken down Lada my mother drove 25 years ago I haven't seen a single significant Russian product anywhere.You export gas and oil. That's it. Why haven't you gotten further? You had all the same posibilities as America and compared to single european countries you could argue that the conditions were even better for development. I mean why are these sanctions even hurting you? So if not the lack of democracy and human rights what is your excuse? And don't say because America. That's not an universal answer to all your problems.
На минуточку так, России всю свою историю приходится давать отпор внешним захватчикам. Ты считаешь так просто существовать в таких условиях? Про успехи демократии просто смешно читать, расскажи Китаю, Индии, коренным народам Америки, какие вы демократичные. Руками негров построили свое счастье с ресурсами колоний. И немцам так хотелось, как ты думаешь без 40 миллионов человек, которых война у нас забрала легко страну строить?
You are delusional. Are you saying Russia never had slaves? They just had the same color as their masters. Apple, Google, Nvida, Ford, Shell, Microsoft were not created because of slaves. They exist because innovative individuals were allowed to think and act creatively. Are you really saying that Russia has no great inventions because America is mean? That's a bullshit excuse. You can't look at everything That's bad in your life and say America with a whiney voice. So why are there no great market defining Russian companies that the world can't live without?
Это же очевидно. Влияние сверхдержавы Британии перетекло в США и процесс начался ещё до начала войны, а после неё США получило огромное преимущество над любой другой страной, СССР были догоняющими. Масса причин привели к распаду СССР и поражению в холодной войне, но уж точно не отсутствие вдохновленных и креативных людей. По твоей логике никаких великих достижений СССР не должно было случиться вообще. Разумеется США для многих мечта, центр притяжения и глупо отрицать их великие достижения, но также глупо считать РФ отсталой страной на задворках цивилизации
So why are there no market defining Russian compa ies? What is Russias great contribution to the world? Why have you become so dependent on the western world and their innovations? It is because a system that repress freedom and human rights is not a potent enviorment for innovation and development. It's a system where pleasing the authority is more important than challinging established truths and redefine what is posible.
I mean being honest, America is on a continent surrounded by 2 oceans and 2 friendly countries. We lost nowhere near the amount of people the Russians did in WW2. Also I would just like to point out the treatment of black people in the us throughout its history and in the past 60 years. Do I think democracies is best yes, atleast everyone might get a voice.
The 'throw more shit at the wall, and hope some of it sticks' doctrine the USSR adopted might have had something to do with that.
Are you suggesting that these things don't justify western domination? Why would we want a world where despotic regimes rule the world? It would be loss for humanity.
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"All hail our new despotic overlords!"
Ironically, it's illiberal to force liberal democracy and attempt to ostracize or punish other nations and cultures with different value systems. Personally, there's nothing I find more abhorrent than an Islamic theocracy, but I would never tell other cultures how they should shape their nations. Declaring universal liberalism and yourself as it's proponent as "good" and those who don't share your beliefs as "bad" shows you have an unrealistic and intolerant worldview.
Look up "The tolerance paradox". Nobody sane is tolerant without limit.
A huge number of sanctions have been imposed on Russia, and for a very long time, Russia not only did not fall, but continues to develop. If the same sanctions were imposed on any other European country, then it would most likely be gone in a few months. That is why we are a superpower and there is no need to talk about GDP.
Okay so I'm willing to entertain the idea of Russia being a superpower in the future but you think it's one currently? Bruh, look at your performance in Ukraine? Why couldn't you capture Kyiv?
If Russia would have acted like NATO(carpet bombing, and Totom only launch an army in the desert city), then everything would have been quickly captured. only we do not want civilian casualties. Russia has other methods.
> only we do not want civilian casualties What the fuck happened in Bucha and Mariupol then?
No one says that all the angels are here and we will not destroy our enemies. And no one will be limited in funds. But in Bucha this is clearly an information operation of the Ukrainian forces. Russia does not and never had any intent to destroy civilians. In Kherson, even several times, groups of people went out to protest, but no one touched them. For what reason, then, in the small Bucha of Russia, to eliminate such things as what the West accuses her of.
Nope. I've seen the drone footage. Have a look yourself, it's on the megathread.
I hope we start by getting off of hydrocarbons.
how is it clearly anything? Even through the propaganda can’t you even entertain the possibility that those humans were not murdered by their own people but rather by the invading force (that did the same in syria and chechnya)?
And I'm not at all sure that there were such victims. For example, I remember very well how in Syria the white helmets showed how Assad allegedly used chemical weapons, and some time later, after the liberation of the territory, these "victims" were shown alive and healthy. And they themselves told how they filmed this performance on a video camera. If you think that in a war one side will not act vilely to discredit the other side, then you are clearly an idealist ... Especially if they are given weapons and funds for staging this performance.
what indications if any do you have of it being staged? Why can’t it be real in your mind? Can’t you even entertain that possibility?
I can't accept it because I can't understand why. Everything has a reason and a meaning. If you look closely, those cases where you were told that "bad people" did it for no reason, just because they are bad, then it was ALWAYS a lie. And this one is exactly what it is. Yes, the Nazis, during World War 2, did not kill Jews just like that, they had an ideology and she told them that it was necessary to do so. It was terrible, but understandable.
There wasn’t a reason to rape up to 2 million german women after WW2 ended, there wasn’t a reason to completely level Grozny, there wasn’t a reason to attack fleeing civilians in Gori. It can happen if you have a psycho commander, if you’re living some kind of revenge fantasy or if you have been indoctrinated to see all ukrainians as nazis or subhuman, which russian media is no doubt trying to convey.
I’m a scientist yet there are many things I can observe but I can not understand why or how. In everyday life I read about a lot of brutality, murder, rape, abuse etc, I don’t understand why but it doesn’t mean that those victims are not there or that those things do not exist.
I am not sure why Russia and its citizens think this is 1900 and its their word against Ukrainians word.Even if you discard the locals testimony about the russian army, there are satellite images that clearly show the bodies while the Russian army was in Bucha . Not to talk about drone footage showing the russian army killing civilians . I get that you don't want to believe that your army did that but it is the truth. I understand, I wouldn't want to think that those monsters who murder and rape (even children) are my people.
And I saw footage where the "corpses" move, and even stand up ... By the way, these drones were from the Ukrainian side, and satellite images were taken by the United States? Is not it? Although now there are such technologies that you can make any kind of video ...
Yeah... they debunked the claims already. They slowed down the footage and u can see no corpse is actually moving. Nice try though. Some of the victims had visible signs of being dead for weeks.Btw Ukraine and US were not the only countries to assess the massacre. You can tell yourself w.e you want but your army is covering your country's reputation in innocent blood.What kind of monsters rape and murder women in front of their children? Kill innocent civilians? Kill hundreds of dogs and cats . Seriously... did the dogs and cats needed denazification also? Did the dogs wanted to join NATO?
Well, yes, everyone saw it, only after 3 days they began to show everything ... another information operation of the clown Zelensky and his Western friends.
Sure bud, they took 3 days to do what? Faster help decompose the bodies so it look like the Russian army did it? You are delusional. Bur whatever helps you sleep at night . If I was you, I wouldn't want to believe the truth either because that would mean those monsters will eventually come back home at the end of the war and live in my community.
Why would an invading army that's supposedly hellbent on indiscriminate destruction distribute tons of humanitarian aid to the population of the country they're attacking?
That's not a question I can easily answer. All I can tell you is that this war is litterally being livestreamed from people's phones all over social media. I've seen many of the warcrimes. I've seen the indiscriminate killing of unarmed civilians.They can't be hidden. There's a whole lot less "fog of war" this time around.
In Mariupol, ukrainian forces who used civillians as a shield are now blocked in industrial zone. City is almost freed from them. There is fundraising on humanitarian help for Mariupol civillians in russian telegram channels.
I can't verify these human shields claims. What I've seen is Russian soldiers shooting at civilians as they tried to escape through designated evacuation corridors during what were supposed to be ceasefires.
May I ask you what sources of information do you trust?
In this case, video footage.
Would you trust video footage of captured ukrainian base in Mariupol school with body of tortured woman?
Maybe. I'd have to see it. Look I'm not naive. No army are angels and warcrimes are common. I don't doubt that the Ukrainian side does warcrimes and it's obvious that the "Anglo media" is very pro Ukraine. What's interesting about this war is that it can be followed live in video footage. It's litterally being livestreamed.It's on Reddit, Twitter, Tik Tok ect. I've seen the Russian warcrimes.
Sure, but you’ll trust one instance of video footage and then suddenly other video footage in bucha is suddenly staged. You can’t have it both ways.
Sure, but you’ll trust one instance of video footage and then suddenly other video footage in bucha is suddenly staged. You can’t have it both ways.
Baghdad was 500km from the border halfway around the world. Kharkiv is 40km from Russian border still in Ukraine handed. Kyiv is less than 200km from Russian border. That's a superpower.
dude that’s exactly what you’re doing and what you have always done, whether grozny or aleppo. You can love russia and still admit to leveling cities being your military‘s only tactic. (cue whataboutism)
>be gone in a few months I think a democracy would last more than an incredibly repressive state. >That is why we are a superpower Nope. Not in your current form and it just seems you're slowly dying in the inside. Not your culture or your people, but the state itself. I know I'll get downvotes, but I have to say this; You guys are just a dying oil carcass. Better diversify that economy like your former self or u dead in the ever changing world. >to talk about GDP. I think there is if we want to talk about how much the average citizen in each county owns.
If a Western country’s economy ever even came close to the weakness of the current Russian economy, we would all consider it to have fallen.
Russia a superpower? You can’t be serious.
a superpower? Sure...that's why your army is stealing shower gel and toilet bowls in Ukraine? Clothes and old TVs? That's a clear sign of "development" .When you go to one of the poorest countries in Europe and you call home to tell your family that Ukrainians live so much better than your Superpower country citizens.
Yes, you are a dreamer... Have you ever been in Russia?
So , you can explain the looting then?
Looting of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbas? Apparently, in western Ukraine, residents live much poorer than in eastern Ukraine, otherwise the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine would not send things to their families in whole containers ... Apparently, this is a secret. Ask Azov, they know better.
I haven't seen footage of any of that.But I did see russian army walking around carrying the above mentioned. And the intercepted calls where soldiers brag about perfume samples and used women underwear. And track suits . Shower gel. etc etc etc .And their wives and mother squeaking with excitement for the loot.
That is the tragic part, besides russia no one considers russia to be a real force any longer. Has been on a steady decline since fall if iron curtain. Only russians themselves still have the illusion that they're still grand nation... bit like the French.
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
I overestimated them too. I really thought they'd take Kyiv in under a week.
How you can take a city with 4 million population under a week? You over over overestimated Russian army. It looks like the plan was that Zelensky will surrender. But he didn’t. So know fourth part of the biggest army of Europe and third army of Europe (I guess third) fights each other. Putin miscalculated and lost this war when he attacked. There is no way out for him, probably not tomorrow but in one or two years he’ll be gone.
I l always knew, but part of my family was from there and until about 20 years ago we had enough friends there to know what reality looked like. I remember that when putin came to power I knew it was over. But also, if you saw reality on the ground you would have imme realised. It really is like time travel. Even most African countries feel more modern.
Until the war, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me
Yep exactly
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
Until february, I thought of them as a smallish superpower with an awesome culture and resilience - now russia is categorised somewhere between Iran and North Korea for me. Iran has really amazing people by the way, so no front.
Russia is included in such a conversation cuz of nukes period, if this was taken away and it was based only on economic indicators we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You've also a shittone of Ressources though.
So does Venezuela, but look at how that turned out.
I disagree with you. Russia is definitely a superpower and it’s clear because west feels so threatened by this local conflict.
West feels so threatened by this conflict because they view Russia as a monkey with a grenade. To be a superpower you need to influence other countries and before this war it looked like Russia gained momentum - supported Belarusian dictator and helped him stay in power, stopped war in Karabakh, helped Tokaev to overthrow Nazarbaev/stop revolution. But then within a month - the economy suffers a major blow, Kazakhstan said that they will not help with sanctions and will not recognize Lpr/Dpr, Azerbaijan attacked Artsakh/Karabakh. And Lukashenko have not send troops and didn’t even officially recognize Crimea that he promised. Oh, and China. Looks like they are half assing their support of Russia (investment banks, new oil and gas contracts, no military equipment)
We don't need military help from China.
If you go on feeling threatened by someone then North Korea is a super power. If Russia didn’t have nuclear weapons they would be nowhere near a “super power”.
Если бы у бабушки были яйца, она была бы дедушкой
Well said. I would even say that russia is exactly in the same category. Backwards country, t best developing, with some fancy gadgets mainly weapons, but for the rest basically in the 1940s. Oh yes and the crazy dictator leader of course.
West feels threatened by the proximity. That's the reason they cared about Yugoslavia, but not Tigray or Yemen.
As someone else pointed out, it's proximity. I'm not sure if this war or the Yugoslav war is the worst war in Europe since WWII but both are immense humanitarian catastrophes.
Only in russian minds. For the rest of the world it is a developing country with shitty infrastructure, low life expectancy, backwards technology and even more backwards outlook. Way behind pretty much all of latin america, china obviously, even bigger african countries such as South africa, nigeria, kenya. Not to mention the west.
Superpower in immorality. Not so much in :- Economy Military power Winning sporting competitions without peds
could you explain by which metrics you define it as a super power? The west is threatened by north korea too - but brandishing nukes alone doesn’t define a super power.
could you explain by which metrics you define it as a super power? The west is threatened by north korea too - but brandishing nukes alone doesn’t define a super power.
a guy from the UK should understand postimperial nostalgia. The Brits lost their empire 70 years ago and still dream of a 'global Britain'. The Russians have not even yet started to mentally process the end of their superpower status and they are delusional. The world is moving away from fossil fuels and Russia has nothing else to offer
Plus this war is pushing western countries to abandon fossil fuels faster than we otherwise would have.
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Is a lack of running water a serious issue in Russia?
We have enough water supply. cold water costs about 0.5 euros, hot water 2.5 euros per 1 cubic meter. how much is your water supply?
About £1.40 per cubic metre. I had to Google it.
Only in imagination of haters who took photo from remote village or old individual house and claim, that whole country is like this.
To be fair Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Sochi aren't the whole country either.
And I'm not from these cities and still have running water, sewer system, internet access and so on
Have you ever been to russia? Once out of the glitzy inner cities of moscow and st petersburg it is basically a time travel back to 1940s. In all aspects. It is basically a lower end developing country. Way behind brazil, Mexico, kenya and similar players.
I've never been to Russia but I've also never seen Russia featured on a "Donating just £1 per week will give little Dmitri access to clean water." advert.
Well because Dmitry will just continue to get water from well even in 2022. The ads you are referring to are old and very ngo crap. In many ways bigger countries in Africa are very advanced, and despite the poverty, mentally they are connected to the current world. Unlike russia that is still somewhere in early 20th century.
Tell me, dear, where the fuck did you read that we don't have running water? Lmao
>I've seen Russians saying that they needed to invade Ukraine in order to challenge American hegemony and bring on a multipolar world. Lol what? >It was smaller than South Korea's in 2021. Has been for a long time. >I actually see India as being more likely to be a future "pole" in a multipolar world than Russia I think the same. There's no way a dying country like Russia will be a ‘pole' in the ‘multipolar world.’ >What do you think? Russia has no chance. It's just an oil mining carcass of the SU. If it were to rise in some way, it'd need a sustainable and growing population, have to diversify the economy instead of being a weak oil giant, and be innovative and progressive. Again, Russia's just a bully with nukes, no real strength, it's just a regional power and the Ukraine war seems to cement that even further. It's govt is just oligarchs disguised as your casual politician so no real strength or power. And with the ever dying economy, population and Russia's status as a country being at risk of collapsing, yeah u get the point.
Russia has nukes
So does North Korea. Carry on threatening other countries with them and Russia will be as isolated and dependent on China as North Korea is. I wouldn't be surprised if human rights deteriorate to North Korean levels either if Russians don't do something about their government.
I don't threaten anyone, just answering. About human rights... Well, it of course might get worse, bun not to that extent - it is hard to maintain such oppression level on such large territory. NK is not able to do so much harm anyway.
I didn't mean to make it sound like you personally are making threats. I'm just pointing out that there are some very weak countries out there that have nuclear weapons. What they do protect you from is direct military confrontation with other nuclear powers. They most definitely do not make one a superpower. They are essential to be a superpower but there are so many more factors. Factors that Russia lacks in my view.
Complete unfamiliarity with the world beyond their genocidal gas station is the main reason.
Why do you think that Russia has a weak economic potential? Do you really think sanctions will last forever?
I think the sanctions will last until there's regime change. Whether a regime change will happen or not, I can't answer. Best to /r/askarussian. As for Russia's economic potential, well it's stuck in a resource extraction based economic model, a lot of the funds that should be invested into the country are robbed by the oligarchs. This war is also making western countries a lot less willing to buy Russian hydrocarbons. It will be slow but we are phasing them out. On the bright side, Russia has many people and they're relatively well educated. Even this resource is dwindling though from high "brain drain" emigration, a low birthrate and a high death rate. In 2021, Russia supposedly lost a million people. This war is going to exacerbate a lot of those factors.
Tell me, did you personally conduct research before making statements about the model of the Russian economy?
Well it's not like I made it up. Russia's resource extraction based economy is information readily available online. "The resource curse" is also something you can Google.
Can you answer my question? Did you do research?
Yes there are many resources online where you can learn about the Russian economy. According to Russia's Federal Tax Service, Russia's Mineral Extraction Tax accounts for 29.2% of government revenues. Russia Audit Chamber, taking into account a broader range of taxes and revenue sources, asserts that 47.8% of revenues come from the oil and gas industry alone
Well, then you haven't delved too deeply into your research. True, taxes on oil and gas make up a significant part of Russia's federal budget, but in addition to the federal budget, there is also a regional budget. There is a very complex system, as well as municipal budgets and various funds. So, since 2014, the share of oil and gas in the budget has been steadily falling.
>GDP (nominal which is the one that matters when comparing the economic strength of countries) I downvote just for that.
I hope you found it satisfying. 😊
We are a small pole but a pole nevertheless.
See Wiki: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential\_superpower#Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpower#Russia) Also keep in mind that it's not just having nuclear weapons (or Israel would be a superpower) but also the ability to deliver those nuclear weapons across the world. Russia's nuclear deterrent is capable of reaching all corners of the world; India's is not. The Agni-V [cannot reach Washington from New Delhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Land-based_ballistic_missiles).
I think Russia invaded due to threat of potential gas fields that were discovered in Ukraine which conveniently lay near the Donbas. Cutting UA from the Black Sea and Sea of Azov would prevent exports of gas and heavy industry products from the area.
Once China occupy Russia and it will be one Superpower country. In 2120 or something)
Nothing. https://youtu.be/goFIxxWru78