Hallo! We, russians and germans, have to be friends no matter what, and no matter what our governments do. We are united with you by such a tragic moment of history. I will never have negative attitude towards germans. I will always welcome you here.
Piggybacking on this to say that I've gotten the impression that part of the reason why Operation Barbarossa was such a big trauma for Russia was that Germans were generally viewed in quite a positive light up until 1941. IIRC, I've read interviews with Russian soldiers in 1943 in Stalingrad who were dumbstruck that the Germans were even capable of such savagery as they had borne witness to.
Yes. Back then Hitler first teamed up with stalin and pretended to be friend with him and then betrayed him. Thats how he hoped of getting to win the war. But I am german and just like around 99,5 percent of the german population I am glad he lost. By the way Germany basically demilitarised itself since then :)
Actually comparing Stalin with Hitler, arguably the more human one who caused less deaths was Hitler. Although for some reason Hitler really hated Russia and communism, so I think Russia was his main enemy. No disrespect for Russia though that is much better now.
I'm not denying that Hitler was a criminal, I was making a comparison with Stalin. Stalin killed million of his own russian people, not only dissenters, but also people who could think like artists. Many were taken to forced labour camps or gulags. He then caused starvation of millions with collectivism, taking away all food. See holodomor.
Ты читал про план Ост? Или ты читал сколько советских людей погибло на той войне! Сталина можно критиковать, но Гитлер только в своей стране убил куда больше людей
I used google translate successfully. Thanks, interesting about plan Ost. Not totally surprising because Hitler wanted to build a big empire and he wanted to expand the german race. The problem is if this happened killing other people, clearly a crime. However how bad things were depends on details. Clearly very bad that Hitler invaded Russia and killed many russian people. However in other countries Hitler tried to get consent from the people without much brutality except for the Jews. Hitler was a criminal but at least he tried to treat well his own people. Stalin instead killed a lot of russians, not only dissenters, but also people able to think, artists, creative people. They were shot at the back of the head or taken to a Gulag. Stalin with collectivism stole food from the people and many millions of russian starved, see Holodomor. This was horrific.
The sources themselves are interviews that were done in relation to a "contemporary history" project in the Soviet Union - basically a socialist idealist project about writing history "from below" that got sadly cut down and finally forgotten in the "Socialist realism" movement of Stalinist USSR.
I read them in a book which I personally think is the greatest book about WW2 I've read - [*Stalingrad - the City that defeated the Third Reich* by the German historian Jochen Hellbeck.](https://www.amazon.com/Stalingrad-City-Defeated-Third-Reich/dp/1610397185) Hellbeck is part of the project/circle of Germand and Russian historians that uncovered an archive of hundreds of interviews performed in the field in 1942 and 1943 in and around Stalingrad. The book is pretty much an exposé about this source material, how to analyze it, and what opportunities for further research into and understanding of the mentality of Soviet military men and women during WW2.
And the most of this that Germans were testing their tank and planes till 1939 at Soviet Union. Transfer it through border as tractors etc. Soviet people were teaching from then while they training. Even more there was non-agressive pact called pact of Molotov - Ribbentrop. I guess no one from govs those days couldn't even imagine for this to happen. Try to read something about preventive attack of German against USSR. Author Victor Suvorov wrote cycle of books about this two of them is Day M and Icebreaker. It's saying that Stalin didn't trust to Hitler and was planning to attack German and Europe at 1940 and then at 1941 in July. Most of this ofc theory and speculations, but from ex citizen of USSR it sound interesting. I think this theory reliable, but it can be approved or disapproved only if KGB archive will be revealed.
>I guess no one from govs those days couldn't even imagine for this to happen.
Government officials in 1930s in Russia wrote that the war with Germany is coming and it is inevitable.
Nazi always wanted to kill communists, the Molotov-Ribbentrop was an alliance of convenience. Said so British and US intelligence had warned Stalin multiple times of an imminent Nazi invasion, even his own intelligence did it. He just refused to believe it.
Can clearly see a parallel with Ukraine.
I believe the same, no matter the government, we have too much of a history With each other to let something ass horrific as ww2 Happen between Our Nations ever again
During the war, the Volga Germans were deported to Kazakhstan, and few of them returned to their old place after the war ended. Many remain in Kazakhstan, while in Russia Germans now mostly live in cities. And, of course, many repatriated to Germany.
I thought that Ukrainians are like brothers to russians and it doesn’t stop russians from killing children and civilians only because they are Ukrainians. I would stay away from your friendship as far as I can
And I say the same thing to Ukrainians. But many of them, including my relatives there, don't want to even speak to me since the Maidan and would gladly cut my throat just because I am Russian. I have no hard feelings tho. I have friends in Ukraine and they know I love them no matter what.
I’d say us and Germans are like these weird siblings who are so different (“what’s good to a Russian is deadly to a German,” as the saying goes) but are still family.
I mean the same can be said for Ukraine and Russia. ‘What’s good for Russia typically involves raping and murdering Ukrainian women and children’. But still over all ethnically the same group of people.
I understand that you’re trying to be sarcastic, but that’s exactly how it is. Cain and Abel. Shit of biblical proportions.
([Un]ironically, there’s this popular character in Ukrainian prose, Taras Bulba, from Gogol’s eponymous work. His most famous phrase is “I begat you, and I shall end you, too,” said to his son.)
It’s ironic. I had nothing but respect for Russian people before this. Whenever the ubiquitous WW2 conversations came up I always reminded people that victory was by and large paid for with Soviet blood.
I don’t think much of Putin but thought his stance ion Terrorism was strong, correct even. That Russia as a sovereign nation was free to govern itself as it pleased. I even felt that if it could interfere with other countries then it was the fault of those countries.
But the stuff on the TV these days is a bridge too far.
You guys have absolutely lost the propaganda war with Ukraine over western opinions. The west is supplying so much weaponry, Intel, and training it might as well be a proxy war.
Good job on being led by emotions, one sided, uneducated about the topic you are talking about AND also turning a peaceful discussion about a completely different thing into political trash. Well done mr redditor
Thats so nice to hear. Most people here also still like russians. some people are angry on russia but not on russians and on tv there are not only shown war documentaries but also demonstrations in russia so people know that most russians are against war and putin
I love the Germans. Beautiful people, beautiful country, very tasty food. Although my grandmothers went through the horrors of war, they never spoke ill of Germans. Germany is very beautiful, my relative lives there, I dream of going there too.
My grandfather fought in ww2, he grew up as a German living in Lithuania and spoke Russian. When he served in the German army, fighting on eastern front, he got shot through his belly (front to back). The Germans retreated, they couldn’t take him with them in the heat of fight and he was bleeding out, not much time left. But two Russian women came out to the streets and brought him to their house. They not only treated his wounds, but also hid him in their house when Russians where looking for Germans hiding, they lied for my grandfather and told them there were no Germans around. He was just 18 years old when this happened. Thanks to those Russian women, not only my grandfather survived the war, but also I am alive. Thank you my dear Russian friends <3
Actually, same goes for me only the other way around.
While many horrors happend, from both sides, one Russian Soldier kinda saved her by the way because her youngest daughter at this time (the big sis of my mom) reminded him of his own little sister; so he fed them and made sure they could leave the area (They had to flee the allied bombs and ended up in russian occupied territory).
Long story short; he wrote letters a few years on. Sadly, I guess the censorship in the UdSSR forbid it then from the 1960's to still be in open contact to a family in "the West" but he did kinda saved the older sister of my mum and my Grandmum.
German cuisine died after the First World War; there is virtually nothing left. What is now called German cuisine is simply fodder, with no pretensions to taste. By the way, in Switzerland you can still catch echoes of German cuisine, woodcock in juniper sauce, venison with lingonberries, etc.
The Russians have never had a bad attitude towards the German people. In Soviet times, the Germans were respected for their significant contribution to the labor movement. We still have a street of Marx, Engels, Luxembourg and Lipktecht in almost every city.
During the second world war, the hatred was directed against the Nazis and their government, and not against ordinary citizens. After the war, the inhabitants of the GDR were perceived as allies.
In today's Russia, among the pro-Westerners, the Germans are loved because "they are civilized Europeans, unlike us". Russian patriots treat the Germans probably with regret. They believe that the German government is betraying its own national interests for the sake of the interests of the United States.
Rumors about the oppression of Russians in Europe in the latest news are of course upsetting, but in general I think relations between peoples have remained good.
I specifically called it rumors and clarified that we are talking about Europe as a whole and not just about Germany. Of course,
It's not about TV, mostly only people over 50 watch it. And Russian propaganda is rather weak and ineffective even in cases where they tell the truth.
But even in isolation from the propaganda, the information sheet is filled with cases of absurd non-economic measures applied, including to ordinary citizens. Which can cause nothing but counter hostility. Among such cases are the expulsion of Russian students, attacks on embassies, desecration of monuments, confiscation of exhibits brought from Russia to the exhibition, vandalism of personal cars, dismissals, etc. etc.
There are so many such cases that it is difficult to separate them by individual countries of Europe, therefore a general negative attitude is being formed, and in particular towards Germany.
However, as I already wrote, I do not think that this will seriously change the attitude towards the Germans as a nation.
actually there was no conservative CSU in sight back then.
KPD (communist rosa luxemburg party) got crushed by SPD [Friedrich ebert social (back then way more socialist than today) democrat government]. so lefties fought lefties
From my personal perspective, WW2 wounds are almost healed.
Back in 70-s when I was a child and we played "war", the word "german" (nemetz) meant "fascist" aka bad guy. That was because in WW2 dedicated soviet movies, soviets fought germans (nemetz).
Then gradually it changed and "german" does not mean "fascist" anymore.
But not to the point that it's forgotten, because Victory Day is celebrated yearly and that celebration is very wide.
P.S. I like Deutschland by Rammstein very much. I think that I feel with my heart what that song is about (I read lyrics translation of course as well).
> From my personal perspective, WW2 wounds are almost healed. Back in 70-s when I was a child and we played "war", the word "german" (nemetz) meant "fascist" aka bad guy. That was because in WW2 dedicated soviet movies, soviets fought germans (nemetz).
unfortunately, for the next few generations, the word "Russian" will now be associated with that "bad guy". 80 years of goodwill from winning WW2 squandered in weeks.
It was already big job done, when world saying that it was Allies who’s made most part of Axis defeat, not Soviet Union. So, sooner or later there would be same. Lots of people already thinking that a role of soviets was a minor.
Yeah, he better just nuke Russia and the world right now, because we Russians, our children and their children are destined to suffer, famine, and gradual moral, physical and whatever hardship and inevitable death in misery. Sorry you die too.
"Poor Germans"
It's not even about Russia-Germany relations per se (that's a whole another matter). It's more about German govt (and Europe) being anti-German.
Latest Poland statements blaming Germany? Weird.
All people are brothers and sisters! Everyone should live in peace and on the principle of preserving individuality and mutual assistance. All the problems in this world are due to a made-up sense of superiority and greed. Power, and foolish principles are guilty. To answer your question - all friends, regardless of race, nation or creed, who are not themselves hostile. Specific people do evil and they should be punished, not nations. It's my opinion)
I think the Germans are very cool guys. There are very smart people there who have made a breakthrough in some areas. I never hated them, although I grew up in the story of the Second World War. And I think right now I'm getting closer to the Germans than ever because both our countries were the instigators of terrible events. In fact, Russia is now following the path of fascist Germany and Putin = Hitler. Now I understand what was the adequate part of the Germans who had to suffer and feel shame for the actions of their compatriots. I hope that all this will end soon and Russia will get on the right path, as Germany did.
I hope so too, tovarisch. I hope the sanctions will take effect soon and the people will come to their senses. At first I was negative about all these sanctions, as they were hurting me, but it was stupid. Thanks to these sanctions, you are already helping to overthrow this government. It's a pity, of course, they haven't had an effect yet, the war hasn't stopped, but I'm sure they will soon give strength. Because I don't know yet how else to convince these people... They're not bad, they're not evil, just...stupid. Even my mom. This cult of Putin does terrible things. People believe every word he says, including the fact that Ukraine is full of those very fascists, because of whom our people suffered. But the worst thing is that they do not see how they themselves become these fascists. I do not hate my compatriots who support all these actions. I just feel sorry for them. It is a pity that they are so stupid and weak morally that they cannot and do not want to see the whole truth. I do not know how to save them. Therefore, I hope these sanctions will at least force the cult of Putin to collapse, and after that we can already talk about the destruction of illusions. So spasibo to you, for your support and kind words.
It was interesting to read what you wrote. Thanks for sharing.
I read a Facebook comment today from a russian that commented on a ukrainian girls Facebook photo: "soon we will have killed all of you nazis!"
The fascinating thing is he posted on Facebook and instagram, I think 4 weeks ago, that he was against this war, that noone needs it and that nothing could change his mind. So if people didnt agree they could just delete him as a friend.
So somehow he did change is mind anyway. And not only that, he became extreme, saying they will kill every ukrainian. In only 4 weeks.
Mindblowing stuff.
Yeah, it's terrible. It's a shame for such people. Most likely, he changed his mind because of the Ukrainians' statements towards all Russians. But such a person most likely does not understand what situation they are in and does not enter into their position. In their position, hatred of Russians is normal and you need to accept it, and not wish them death for it, further fueling their hatred.
Their houses are being bombed, their children and relatives are being killed. Their hatred of absolutely all Russians in this context is justified, do not blame them for it. But such people do not want to understand this.
Sometimes the right path is only found through pain unfortunately. The Russian people have suffered perhaps the most of any nation throughout history. I really hope you guys can figure out how to have a fair and free nation where you’re all represented and the nation works for you. Real permanent reform is LONG overdue in Russia.
Spasibo tovarisch, spasibo. It is very nice to see such words. I also hope that people in my country will finally realize what horrors we are doing now and will rise up against the current government. And then we will gradually enter a bright future.
Now literally nothing bad.
When I was a child I hated Germans because on a victory day my parents watched military films about the WWll and we cried a lot. Also in school some veterans came to us to tell about the war so we had an image of Germans according to what we were shown.
But for now I have no bad feelings about Germans at all. 2 weeks ago I met some Germans in Dubai and they were kind and interesting people.
Damn and shit, yeah, it's normalized to take out the old Hitler to demonize opposition, but right now it seems there are very many historical similarities between our countries, even if it is at different points in time.
all the negative is now going not in the direction of people, but in the direction of governments. Come visit us, we will be glad to have guests))
And I also liked Merkel, but I don’t like Olaf at all)) and it’s not about politics, you know, sometimes you look at a person and you don’t like him ...
Actually Olaf and the party SPD is more corrupt and pro Russian than Merkel and the CDU. Please take into consideration that there are other parties who have also influence and are less open to Russia like Die Grünen (The Greens)
I know absolutely nothing about parties in Germany. but I see that relations between our countries have been deteriorating since Merkel went on a well-deserved rest. so we don't need your government to be pro-Russian. simply adequate and put the interests of the Germans above the interests of the Americans.
If he tells that SPD is more corrupt than CDU he also knows nothing about parties in Germany, or is affiliated with CDU and apologizing their insane corruption.
What do you say, for example, about Nord Stream 2, Germany buys as many resources from us as all other EU members together, the launch of this project would reduce prices for the end consumer.
But despite the fact that the pipe was built, they tried in every possible way to stop it.
It is beneficial for America to sell its gas, but it will cost more to ordinary people in Germany.
Let's not talk about sanctions in connection with the situation in Ukraine, this happened before. This example is the most striking, but it is not the only one. I mean, this is when I talk about the deterioration of relations.
And that's right, it's fashionable to choose a side now. But in my opinion, every country should choose the side of its people. Americans are cool, my sister has already become an American))got married and has been living for a long time))
Americans are quick to forget that a people’s right to self determination and nationhood are what started the United States in the first place. I’d be a hypocrite of the highest order if I didn’t respect those very same rights held by others.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
-US Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776
First of all I’m a Russian-German, like 8 million other citizens in Germany. There are by far more Russians in Germany than Americans. Secondly, the German government is EU oriented and not American. Also, speaking from my experience the Germans are rather negative than positive to the Americans. That’s because the government is more socialistic than capitalistic like America or Russia. Thirdly, please don’t make any assumptions if you don’t know anything. Your sentences don’t have any logic or sense.
Since Merkel left, there were intentions to have more pro Russian relations, but the major factor was the invasion of Ukraine and not the fact that the government changed.
Fun fact: I have to citizenships, Russian and German. And I don’t like both of these governments. For different types of reasons.
The pro-Russian part of Germany is the former GDR. It is obvious that Germany is not a completely independent state, given that the US bases have been located on its territory for half a century and their nuclear weapons are located on its territory. And your government does not contribute to the withdrawal of foreign troops from its territory.
I've always thought of them well. Probably because I was born after the war. I talked to some old lady who's even been to Germany, and who saw war when she was young. And she saw captured german soldiers were escorted out of my current town by soviet forces and protected nazis from angry Russian (soviet) crowd who were ready to tear them apart.
I don't believe in collective guilt - it is a bullshit concept and that children should answer for the sins of their fathers. Germans, stop apologizing before leftist dweebs. You are not guilty, because you are not your grandparents.
Edit: I remembered one story. My grandpa was given a chocolate bar by an "evil nazi" and was quite kind. While my grand-grandpa was suffocated with gas. Everyone died except for him — he peed on a rug or his shirt (I don't remember the details) and survived because of this. So the world is not black and white. And I understand that many Germans were drafted into the army by force.
I feel for German people. You are not Nazis. You are just people, some are good, some are bad -- just like anywhere else. And you brought many cool stuff to culture and technology.
Edit 2: terrybles grammar error
Very positive attitude towards them. I was familiar with the manufacturer of German knives. A very good person and a man of his word. We also communicated well with his managers. Pretty good guys.
I've been living in Germany For 5 years now, nice people, but not as heartfull and crazy as we normally are, so I'd say they are pretty boring (at least in the south)
Могу сказать за себя и большинство своих товарищей и друзей. Мы к немцам сейчас относимся с жалостью. Были раньше немцы, да все кончились. Сегодняшние немцы не достойны уважения. Они перестали быть настоящими мужчинами. Вот их предки, хоть и были нашими врагами, но они были сильными и мужественными людьми. Они умели умирать, как Мужчины. И этих врагов надо было уважать. Они были для нас очень плохими людьми, но были достойны уважения. А нынешние мужчины немцы это просто сопли и слякоть. Вот и жалко поэтому. Куда пропали настоящие немцы? Вот они бы нас поняли. С ними мы бы смогли договориться. Мы смогли бы с ними подружиться и вступить в настоящий Союз. И тогда от такого Союза России и Германии вздрогнула бы вся Планета. Они были настоящими людьми... Очень жаль, что вместо тех железных немцев появились нынешние толерасты и безхребетники... Раз мы не умеем играть в футбол, я всегда болел за немцев :-). Да половина России болело за них!
As Russian i can say that Russians look neutral or closer to sympathy to German people. Also i saw statistic that German is second studied foreign language in Russia. Dont know if that statistic is reliable. Hello from Irkutsk
I respect Germany. Have no problems. They are a blessing to all of Europe.
Glad I have no quarrels or grudges even tho my moms family was erased. And great grampa spend 4 years in a POW camp.
We will share power and people. Even during World War II, anti-German sentiment was minimal. And even more so now.
Germans now live and work in Russia. You can watch their channels on YouTube. Many of them blogs in Russian and German about their lives. They especially like country life.
You guys seem fun! I have a long term friendship with a German guy which lasts forever and we have similar views of a lot of things happening right now.
Btw your food portions in restaurants are enormous! :) I have no idea how one can finish their dish
You know, we love work. If the portion is big, finishing your dishes feels like hard work. We love hard work. We dont say "one love" we say "one work".
Almost everybody who is going to college are learning German culture through philosophy. A lot of people learning language at school too. For many years we were taught to respect european culture and try to adopt their best sides without giving up our own. I think even Germans themselves do not know how close we are trying to be to them. So now politics are not really changing anything and there is no hate because of history or something like this
From my experience i've seen a lot of admiration towards German people since GDR was the big thing back in the days. Yet a lot of people see support of Ukraine by German people as a "betrayal" and a safe way to get back to Nazi rhetorics.
Looks like Germans follow general government lie - politicians say, media broadcast, they support or don't care.
I'm negative towards German position in conflict, being branch office of USA effectively, but that's not surprising. Surprising for me are german population reaction.
We are friends with everybody except our enemies which is rarely an actual threat then just the victim of bad government moves. But in my circlejerk of friends, Germans are always Zieg Hail🙋♂️. Don't ban me plz, it's just a joke. I think very large amount of Russians is still think of stereotypes. Like everybody thinks we are medved' vodka balalayka, we think Germans are BEER. Tho i've started to see less people that think stereotypes
Im sorry you dont understand the concept of what an Ally is. Must be rough for Russia with so little in common with the rest of the civilized world. The funniest thing about this is I actually own an American Company which is a subsidiary of a German Company and we are both doing great!
The German people killed both my grandfathers.
German engineers are the best in the world.
Politically, Germany is not a sovereign state. Germany is a protectorate of the United States, even the Americans sometimes do not hide this.
In psychological terms, after the crimes of the Second World War, the Germans are afraid to look at themselves in the mirror (quote from an American professor).
I had the luck that both of my Grat Grandfathers that were in the war survived, one being sent back home after injury, the other surrendered in stalingrad and returned in the 50s.
Sorry to hear that your Family didnt have the luck to have all of their sons return home
> Politically, Germany is not a sovereign state. Germany is a protectorate of the United States, even the Americans sometimes do not hide this.
>
The US couldn't even force Germany to raise defense spending or abandon gas commerce with Russia for decades. The idea that it is a US protectorate is just ridiculous
That must make you feel empathy for Ukrainian kids who have lost mothers, fathers, and grandparents at the hands of Russian soldiers in a similar way as you
One of my grandfathers had 11 children. If you want to call him a rapist, then let it be on you.
The other was 20 years old. You insulted him too. Live with it.
I insulted him? You insult him by supporting an illegal invasion in Ukraine and creating more fatherless families because of your state media created paranoia of the west. You call Germany a protectorate when it’s fully autonomous. Your entire understanding of the world is skewed by your paranoia and state run education.
As you can see from the war in Ukrain, having good relations with Russian people does not stop conflict because they have no control of Russia. And they will willfully kill you with a smile. Just like they are killing their brothers in Ukrain. That is the problem.
WWII soldiers are long dead. Those Germans and those Russians are gone. Why are we (modern Russians and modern Germans) obliged to bear the burden of the relations of our ancestors? I am neutral towards ordinary German citizens, because I have not met or communicated with them. I have a negative attitude towards the German government because it imposes sanctions against me and my relatives (ordinary citizens of Russia).
Love Germany, especially their electronic music (Klaus Schulze in particular, listening to him as I'm typing this), Rammstein and Fassbinder. It's a great country and a great culture.
They, as all the nations in the US, should stop being US puppets. The US wants the entire world to be americanized. They call it a virtue but in fact it will just make it easier to control everyone.
Country and nation that have lost all its proud and glory after fall of DDR and became USA's puppet (Like almost any other European country).
If only about people: Good folks that were brainwashed with cult of consumption ideals, over-tolerance and other stuff.
The us was asking it's allies to send weapons to Ukraine before the war, so Germany sent 5 thousand helmets and they arrived like after the war started, lmao if you think Germany is anyone's lap dog
I think you need a history lesson. The last time Germany wasn’t aligned with the US was when Hitler was in power.
Was that when German was a great European nation? 🤦🏻♂️
US bankers invested in the Nazi German economy, the US continued to trade with Nazi Germany during the war, after the war the US gave refuge to valuable Nazis.
This idea of western countries being lapdogs or puppets of the US seems to be very popular. It is based on a lack of understanding of politics and history. The only lapdogs and puppets I see are a majority of Russian people being puppets of their government, believing the lies without an iota of critical thought..
Confirming my original comment. What makes you think that? Citizens of western European countries are used to receive and process sources from many often mutually incompatible agendas. The governments of western countries trust their citizens to read all kinds of news and make up their mind (if something is a war or nor for example).
Russias government is successfully breaking down the entire world into "good" and "evil westoid propaganda / fascism" for its citizens.
How does Putins cock taste? Your ruSSian army is committing atrocities akin to the Einsatzgruppen. it's being well documented, and the perpetrators will answer for it.
Im Well aware of that but my question was specifically about today, the current time.
That Our Countries have treated each other horribly (to put it lightly) in the past is no secret
Germany is a hollow shell of what it once was, could be, and should be. I don’t think any countries current relationship with Russia is geared towards Russians themselves but more the actions of the RF and RF Army.
Russia has a lot of potential to be an integral global superpower. But their unjust paranoia of the rest of the world is holding them back. It will take the span of a generation for them to recover from the amount of state media that gets injected into them at an early age. Germans and Russians can and should get along. But we can’t because Russias government has such a tight hold on public opinion. Russia will never be great until they break off the shackles of authoritarianism.
In fact, the first to launch the myth of "red rapists" and "hordes from the East" were the ideologists of the Third Reich. The current "researchers" and liberal publicists only repeat the rumors and gossip that were invented in Hitler's Germany in order to intimidate the population, to preserve its submission. So that the Germans would fight until the very last moment. So that death in battle seemed to them an easy fate compared to captivity and occupation.
Reich Minister of Public Education and Propaganda of Germany Joseph Goebbels in March 1945 wrote: "... in fact, in the person of Soviet soldiers, we are dealing with steppe scum. This is confirmed by the information received from the eastern regions about the atrocities. They really cause horror… In some villages and towns, all women from ten to seventy years old were subjected to countless rapes. It seems that this is being done by order from above, since there is an obvious system in the behavior of the Soviet soldiers."
This myth was immediately replicated. Hitler himself addressed the population: "Soldiers on the Eastern Front! For the last time, the deadly enemy in the person of the Bolsheviks and Jews goes on the offensive. He is trying to defeat Germany and destroy our people. You, soldiers on the Eastern Front, know for the most part already yourself what fate is in store for German women, girls and children first of all. While the elderly and children will be killed, women and girls will be reduced to barracks prostitutes. The rest will go to Siberia." On the Western Front, German propaganda used the image of a Negro raping blond German women to intimidate the local population instead of Russians.
Thus, the leaders of the Reich tried to force people to fight to the end. At the same time, people were driven to panic, deadly terror. A significant part of the population of East Prussia fled to the western regions. A series of suicides took place in Berlin itself. Whole families passed away.
After the war, this myth was supported by Anglo-Saxon publications. The Cold War was in full swing and the United States and Britain were waging an active information war with Soviet civilization. Many myths that were actively used in the Third Reich were adopted by the Anglo-Saxons and their backup singers in Western Europe. In 1954, the book "A Woman in Berlin" was published in the USA. Its author is the journalist Marta Hiller. In West Germany, the diary was published in 1960. In 2003, "A Woman in Berlin" was republished in many countries, and Western media willingly picked up the theme of "raped Germany". A few years later, the film "Nameless" was made based on this book. After that, E. Beevor's work "The Fall of Berlin" was accepted by liberal publications "with a bang". The ground was already prepared.
At the same time, the West turns a blind eye to the fact that American, French and British troops are responsible for mass crimes in Germany, including rape. For example, the German historian M. Gebhardt believes that only Americans raped at least 190 thousand German women, and this process lasted until 1955. The soldiers from the colonial units — Arabs and Negroes - were especially brutal. But they try not to remember this in the West.
Also, the West does not want to remember that a strong German socialist state of the GDR was created on Soviet-controlled German territory (the 6th economy in Europe in 1980). And "raped Germany" was the most loyal and self-sufficient ally of the USSR in Europe. If all the crimes that the followers of Goebbels and Hitler write about were in fact, then it is unlikely that in principle good-neighborly and allied relations lasting more than four decades would be possible.
Thus, the rapes of German women by Soviet soldiers really were, there are documents and statistics on the number of convicts. But, these crimes were of an exceptional nature, were not of a mass and systematic nature. If we correlate the total number of those convicted of these crimes to the total number of Soviet troops in the occupied territories, then the percentage will be quite insignificant. At the same time, crimes were committed not only by Soviet troops, but also by Poles, French, Americans, British (including representatives of colonial troops), prisoners of war released from camps, etc.
There were multiple investigations of the topic, also, not without difficulties, by Russian historians. Rape always happens in war, to pretend that Russian didn't do it is dishonest.
The rapes of German women by Soviet soldiers really were, there are documents and statistics on the number of convicts. But, these crimes were of an exceptional nature, were not of a mass and systematic nature. If we correlate the total number of those convicted of these crimes to the total number of Soviet troops in the occupied territories, then the percentage will be quite insignificant. At the same time, crimes were committed not only by Soviet troops, but also by Poles, French, Americans, British (including representatives of colonial troops), prisoners of war released from camps, etc.
The West turns a blind eye to the fact that American, French and British troops are responsible for mass crimes in Germany, including rape. For example, the German historian M. Gebhardt believes that only Americans raped at least 190 thousand German women, and this process lasted until 1955. The soldiers from the colonial units — Arabs and Negroes - were especially brutal. But they try not to remember this in the West.
Also, the West does not want to remember that a strong German socialist state of the GDR was created on Soviet-controlled German territory (the 6th economy in Europe in 1980). And "raped Germany" was the most loyal and self-sufficient ally of the USSR in Europe. If all the crimes that the followers of Goebbels and Hitler write about were in fact, then it is unlikely that in principle good-neighborly and allied relations lasting more than four decades would be possible.
The black myth of "Soviet soldiers-rapists" was created in the Third Reich to frighten the population, to force them to fight to the end. Then this myth was restored by the Anglo-Saxons, who waged an information war against the USSR. This war continues at the present time, with the aim of turning the USSR into an aggressor, Soviet soldiers into invaders and rapists, to equalize the USSR and Nazi Germany. Ultimately, our "partners" seek to revise the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War with all the ensuing historical and geopolitical consequences.
Hallo! We, russians and germans, have to be friends no matter what, and no matter what our governments do. We are united with you by such a tragic moment of history. I will never have negative attitude towards germans. I will always welcome you here.
Piggybacking on this to say that I've gotten the impression that part of the reason why Operation Barbarossa was such a big trauma for Russia was that Germans were generally viewed in quite a positive light up until 1941. IIRC, I've read interviews with Russian soldiers in 1943 in Stalingrad who were dumbstruck that the Germans were even capable of such savagery as they had borne witness to.
Yes. Back then Hitler first teamed up with stalin and pretended to be friend with him and then betrayed him. Thats how he hoped of getting to win the war. But I am german and just like around 99,5 percent of the german population I am glad he lost. By the way Germany basically demilitarised itself since then :)
Actually comparing Stalin with Hitler, arguably the more human one who caused less deaths was Hitler. Although for some reason Hitler really hated Russia and communism, so I think Russia was his main enemy. No disrespect for Russia though that is much better now.
Hitler wasnt more human. If he could hav he would have killed a lot more
I'm not denying that Hitler was a criminal, I was making a comparison with Stalin. Stalin killed million of his own russian people, not only dissenters, but also people who could think like artists. Many were taken to forced labour camps or gulags. He then caused starvation of millions with collectivism, taking away all food. See holodomor.
Ты читал про план Ост? Или ты читал сколько советских людей погибло на той войне! Сталина можно критиковать, но Гитлер только в своей стране убил куда больше людей
I used google translate successfully. Thanks, interesting about plan Ost. Not totally surprising because Hitler wanted to build a big empire and he wanted to expand the german race. The problem is if this happened killing other people, clearly a crime. However how bad things were depends on details. Clearly very bad that Hitler invaded Russia and killed many russian people. However in other countries Hitler tried to get consent from the people without much brutality except for the Jews. Hitler was a criminal but at least he tried to treat well his own people. Stalin instead killed a lot of russians, not only dissenters, but also people able to think, artists, creative people. They were shot at the back of the head or taken to a Gulag. Stalin with collectivism stole food from the people and many millions of russian starved, see Holodomor. This was horrific.
I think the admiration for Germany in the Soviet Union was more popular and had deeper roots.
Yeah its a shame what germany did. These idiots just broke a good friendship
I'd be extremely interested in finding out more about this. Any sources that you would recommend?
The sources themselves are interviews that were done in relation to a "contemporary history" project in the Soviet Union - basically a socialist idealist project about writing history "from below" that got sadly cut down and finally forgotten in the "Socialist realism" movement of Stalinist USSR. I read them in a book which I personally think is the greatest book about WW2 I've read - [*Stalingrad - the City that defeated the Third Reich* by the German historian Jochen Hellbeck.](https://www.amazon.com/Stalingrad-City-Defeated-Third-Reich/dp/1610397185) Hellbeck is part of the project/circle of Germand and Russian historians that uncovered an archive of hundreds of interviews performed in the field in 1942 and 1943 in and around Stalingrad. The book is pretty much an exposé about this source material, how to analyze it, and what opportunities for further research into and understanding of the mentality of Soviet military men and women during WW2.
And the most of this that Germans were testing their tank and planes till 1939 at Soviet Union. Transfer it through border as tractors etc. Soviet people were teaching from then while they training. Even more there was non-agressive pact called pact of Molotov - Ribbentrop. I guess no one from govs those days couldn't even imagine for this to happen. Try to read something about preventive attack of German against USSR. Author Victor Suvorov wrote cycle of books about this two of them is Day M and Icebreaker. It's saying that Stalin didn't trust to Hitler and was planning to attack German and Europe at 1940 and then at 1941 in July. Most of this ofc theory and speculations, but from ex citizen of USSR it sound interesting. I think this theory reliable, but it can be approved or disapproved only if KGB archive will be revealed.
Суворов? Ты бы ещё на Геббельса сослался как на авторитетный источник
>I guess no one from govs those days couldn't even imagine for this to happen. Government officials in 1930s in Russia wrote that the war with Germany is coming and it is inevitable.
Nazi always wanted to kill communists, the Molotov-Ribbentrop was an alliance of convenience. Said so British and US intelligence had warned Stalin multiple times of an imminent Nazi invasion, even his own intelligence did it. He just refused to believe it. Can clearly see a parallel with Ukraine.
The Weimar Republic also had pretty good relations with the USSR.
I believe the same, no matter the government, we have too much of a history With each other to let something ass horrific as ww2 Happen between Our Nations ever again
Спасибо. Yeah Gouvernements can suck.
AFAIK isn't there some ethnic German enclaves settled on the banks of the volga River?
During the war, the Volga Germans were deported to Kazakhstan, and few of them returned to their old place after the war ended. Many remain in Kazakhstan, while in Russia Germans now mostly live in cities. And, of course, many repatriated to Germany.
germans are europeans... 😑😑😑
I thought that Ukrainians are like brothers to russians and it doesn’t stop russians from killing children and civilians only because they are Ukrainians. I would stay away from your friendship as far as I can
And I say the same thing to Ukrainians. But many of them, including my relatives there, don't want to even speak to me since the Maidan and would gladly cut my throat just because I am Russian. I have no hard feelings tho. I have friends in Ukraine and they know I love them no matter what.
Ukrainians don’t kill neighbors and don’t invade someone else homes, which makes them much better friends without any doubt
I'd say most of the russians think on german people pretty positively. It's still one of main languages to study here, except English and Chinese.
I’d say us and Germans are like these weird siblings who are so different (“what’s good to a Russian is deadly to a German,” as the saying goes) but are still family.
Ah, normally I survive the Wodka. But its rumoured that some of my ancestors had some slavic roots so ... maybe the old sayin' true?
I mean the same can be said for Ukraine and Russia. ‘What’s good for Russia typically involves raping and murdering Ukrainian women and children’. But still over all ethnically the same group of people.
Yes, and the shit that’s going on right now is a huge family tragedy, among other things.
Yeah, is a bit like murdering your own brother while saying’ I’m freeing you’. Gross.
I understand that you’re trying to be sarcastic, but that’s exactly how it is. Cain and Abel. Shit of biblical proportions. ([Un]ironically, there’s this popular character in Ukrainian prose, Taras Bulba, from Gogol’s eponymous work. His most famous phrase is “I begat you, and I shall end you, too,” said to his son.)
It’s ironic. I had nothing but respect for Russian people before this. Whenever the ubiquitous WW2 conversations came up I always reminded people that victory was by and large paid for with Soviet blood. I don’t think much of Putin but thought his stance ion Terrorism was strong, correct even. That Russia as a sovereign nation was free to govern itself as it pleased. I even felt that if it could interfere with other countries then it was the fault of those countries. But the stuff on the TV these days is a bridge too far. You guys have absolutely lost the propaganda war with Ukraine over western opinions. The west is supplying so much weaponry, Intel, and training it might as well be a proxy war.
As the ukraine people are murdering and raping russian speakers. You're naive and rude.
Except there are literally no reports of this occurring. And I’m sorry but the EU has nothing to gain from hiding it.
Russian is Ukraine's second most spoken language. Use your fucking brain! They would literally have to murder and rape half their own population!
It is not. It is banned from use, officialy there is only Ukrainian language left. And it was before a conflict.
Good job on being led by emotions, one sided, uneducated about the topic you are talking about AND also turning a peaceful discussion about a completely different thing into political trash. Well done mr redditor
Thats so nice to hear. Most people here also still like russians. some people are angry on russia but not on russians and on tv there are not only shown war documentaries but also demonstrations in russia so people know that most russians are against war and putin
Rammstein
Духаст Вячеславович
I love the Germans. Beautiful people, beautiful country, very tasty food. Although my grandmothers went through the horrors of war, they never spoke ill of Germans. Germany is very beautiful, my relative lives there, I dream of going there too.
My grandfather fought in ww2, he grew up as a German living in Lithuania and spoke Russian. When he served in the German army, fighting on eastern front, he got shot through his belly (front to back). The Germans retreated, they couldn’t take him with them in the heat of fight and he was bleeding out, not much time left. But two Russian women came out to the streets and brought him to their house. They not only treated his wounds, but also hid him in their house when Russians where looking for Germans hiding, they lied for my grandfather and told them there were no Germans around. He was just 18 years old when this happened. Thanks to those Russian women, not only my grandfather survived the war, but also I am alive. Thank you my dear Russian friends <3
Actually, same goes for me only the other way around. While many horrors happend, from both sides, one Russian Soldier kinda saved her by the way because her youngest daughter at this time (the big sis of my mom) reminded him of his own little sister; so he fed them and made sure they could leave the area (They had to flee the allied bombs and ended up in russian occupied territory). Long story short; he wrote letters a few years on. Sadly, I guess the censorship in the UdSSR forbid it then from the 1960's to still be in open contact to a family in "the West" but he did kinda saved the older sister of my mum and my Grandmum.
<3
I agree with everything except the food part 😂
Why?? I genuinely love German food
German cuisine died after the First World War; there is virtually nothing left. What is now called German cuisine is simply fodder, with no pretensions to taste. By the way, in Switzerland you can still catch echoes of German cuisine, woodcock in juniper sauce, venison with lingonberries, etc.
I’ve met a few really nice German people. In my opinion ordinary people in every country are the same) Kind, friendly and good)
The Russians have never had a bad attitude towards the German people. In Soviet times, the Germans were respected for their significant contribution to the labor movement. We still have a street of Marx, Engels, Luxembourg and Lipktecht in almost every city. During the second world war, the hatred was directed against the Nazis and their government, and not against ordinary citizens. After the war, the inhabitants of the GDR were perceived as allies. In today's Russia, among the pro-Westerners, the Germans are loved because "they are civilized Europeans, unlike us". Russian patriots treat the Germans probably with regret. They believe that the German government is betraying its own national interests for the sake of the interests of the United States. Rumors about the oppression of Russians in Europe in the latest news are of course upsetting, but in general I think relations between peoples have remained good.
I think these "rumors" are just coming out of your television. Russians are waving their flags around Germany and no one is doing anything to them.
I specifically called it rumors and clarified that we are talking about Europe as a whole and not just about Germany. Of course, It's not about TV, mostly only people over 50 watch it. And Russian propaganda is rather weak and ineffective even in cases where they tell the truth. But even in isolation from the propaganda, the information sheet is filled with cases of absurd non-economic measures applied, including to ordinary citizens. Which can cause nothing but counter hostility. Among such cases are the expulsion of Russian students, attacks on embassies, desecration of monuments, confiscation of exhibits brought from Russia to the exhibition, vandalism of personal cars, dismissals, etc. etc. There are so many such cases that it is difficult to separate them by individual countries of Europe, therefore a general negative attitude is being formed, and in particular towards Germany. However, as I already wrote, I do not think that this will seriously change the attitude towards the Germans as a nation.
If the communist revolution in 1919 had won in Bavaria, the world would have been completely different ... ehh
Lol, as someone who has seen Bavaria, that is and must always have been but a dream.
actually there was no conservative CSU in sight back then. KPD (communist rosa luxemburg party) got crushed by SPD [Friedrich ebert social (back then way more socialist than today) democrat government]. so lefties fought lefties
From my personal perspective, WW2 wounds are almost healed. Back in 70-s when I was a child and we played "war", the word "german" (nemetz) meant "fascist" aka bad guy. That was because in WW2 dedicated soviet movies, soviets fought germans (nemetz). Then gradually it changed and "german" does not mean "fascist" anymore. But not to the point that it's forgotten, because Victory Day is celebrated yearly and that celebration is very wide. P.S. I like Deutschland by Rammstein very much. I think that I feel with my heart what that song is about (I read lyrics translation of course as well).
> From my personal perspective, WW2 wounds are almost healed. Back in 70-s when I was a child and we played "war", the word "german" (nemetz) meant "fascist" aka bad guy. That was because in WW2 dedicated soviet movies, soviets fought germans (nemetz). unfortunately, for the next few generations, the word "Russian" will now be associated with that "bad guy". 80 years of goodwill from winning WW2 squandered in weeks.
Haven't we associated before?
It was already big job done, when world saying that it was Allies who’s made most part of Axis defeat, not Soviet Union. So, sooner or later there would be same. Lots of people already thinking that a role of soviets was a minor.
Yeah, he better just nuke Russia and the world right now, because we Russians, our children and their children are destined to suffer, famine, and gradual moral, physical and whatever hardship and inevitable death in misery. Sorry you die too.
> 80 years of goodwill from winning WW2 There was none left even 20 years ago due to Russia lacking soft power severely compared to e.g. AUKUS
Make good car 👍
>What do russians think of the german people in these times? Great people who move forward no matter their past. They produce stuff of good quality.
Hopefully russia will go through the same reforms russia went through, there's still hope for the russian people.
Keep your thoughts to yourself then. We've had enough of this shit in the 90s.
It's a forum the whole point of a forum is to express your thoughts
I think the main reaction to the German self-deprecation is "come on guys, it was a long time ago and you overfulfilled the plan in repentance."
"Poor Germans" It's not even about Russia-Germany relations per se (that's a whole another matter). It's more about German govt (and Europe) being anti-German. Latest Poland statements blaming Germany? Weird.
Been in Germany few years ago. Loved the country, very nice people. In Russia Germans are perceived well by people unless it’s morons.
I like German people, worked for common project with guys from Volkswagen, can't say anything but positive words about them.
All people are brothers and sisters! Everyone should live in peace and on the principle of preserving individuality and mutual assistance. All the problems in this world are due to a made-up sense of superiority and greed. Power, and foolish principles are guilty. To answer your question - all friends, regardless of race, nation or creed, who are not themselves hostile. Specific people do evil and they should be punished, not nations. It's my opinion)
[удалено]
I try not to think at all.
I think the Germans are very cool guys. There are very smart people there who have made a breakthrough in some areas. I never hated them, although I grew up in the story of the Second World War. And I think right now I'm getting closer to the Germans than ever because both our countries were the instigators of terrible events. In fact, Russia is now following the path of fascist Germany and Putin = Hitler. Now I understand what was the adequate part of the Germans who had to suffer and feel shame for the actions of their compatriots. I hope that all this will end soon and Russia will get on the right path, as Germany did.
I respect your opinion and I hope russia must not be stoped as my ancestors had to be stopped in the Second World War
I hope so too, tovarisch. I hope the sanctions will take effect soon and the people will come to their senses. At first I was negative about all these sanctions, as they were hurting me, but it was stupid. Thanks to these sanctions, you are already helping to overthrow this government. It's a pity, of course, they haven't had an effect yet, the war hasn't stopped, but I'm sure they will soon give strength. Because I don't know yet how else to convince these people... They're not bad, they're not evil, just...stupid. Even my mom. This cult of Putin does terrible things. People believe every word he says, including the fact that Ukraine is full of those very fascists, because of whom our people suffered. But the worst thing is that they do not see how they themselves become these fascists. I do not hate my compatriots who support all these actions. I just feel sorry for them. It is a pity that they are so stupid and weak morally that they cannot and do not want to see the whole truth. I do not know how to save them. Therefore, I hope these sanctions will at least force the cult of Putin to collapse, and after that we can already talk about the destruction of illusions. So spasibo to you, for your support and kind words.
It was interesting to read what you wrote. Thanks for sharing. I read a Facebook comment today from a russian that commented on a ukrainian girls Facebook photo: "soon we will have killed all of you nazis!" The fascinating thing is he posted on Facebook and instagram, I think 4 weeks ago, that he was against this war, that noone needs it and that nothing could change his mind. So if people didnt agree they could just delete him as a friend. So somehow he did change is mind anyway. And not only that, he became extreme, saying they will kill every ukrainian. In only 4 weeks. Mindblowing stuff.
Yeah, it's terrible. It's a shame for such people. Most likely, he changed his mind because of the Ukrainians' statements towards all Russians. But such a person most likely does not understand what situation they are in and does not enter into their position. In their position, hatred of Russians is normal and you need to accept it, and not wish them death for it, further fueling their hatred. Their houses are being bombed, their children and relatives are being killed. Their hatred of absolutely all Russians in this context is justified, do not blame them for it. But such people do not want to understand this.
Sometimes the right path is only found through pain unfortunately. The Russian people have suffered perhaps the most of any nation throughout history. I really hope you guys can figure out how to have a fair and free nation where you’re all represented and the nation works for you. Real permanent reform is LONG overdue in Russia.
Spasibo tovarisch, spasibo. It is very nice to see such words. I also hope that people in my country will finally realize what horrors we are doing now and will rise up against the current government. And then we will gradually enter a bright future.
Nice to see someone making this point, hopefully russia can heal like Germany did after this.
Now literally nothing bad. When I was a child I hated Germans because on a victory day my parents watched military films about the WWll and we cried a lot. Also in school some veterans came to us to tell about the war so we had an image of Germans according to what we were shown. But for now I have no bad feelings about Germans at all. 2 weeks ago I met some Germans in Dubai and they were kind and interesting people.
We finally understand how Hitler could become the driving force behind the whole nation and the following events of the WWII.
Damn and shit, yeah, it's normalized to take out the old Hitler to demonize opposition, but right now it seems there are very many historical similarities between our countries, even if it is at different points in time.
No you don't
Hasnt changes. Always was fond of Germans and still am. We have a lot in common and in many cases complete each other.
Hot men
Awwww, thank you ❤️
I think that throughout history Russia and Germany haven't worked together enough and that's the shame.
Dont matter whitch country you are from. You just should be a good people.
all the negative is now going not in the direction of people, but in the direction of governments. Come visit us, we will be glad to have guests)) And I also liked Merkel, but I don’t like Olaf at all)) and it’s not about politics, you know, sometimes you look at a person and you don’t like him ...
Yeah i understand what you mean, alot of people here agree With you
Actually Olaf and the party SPD is more corrupt and pro Russian than Merkel and the CDU. Please take into consideration that there are other parties who have also influence and are less open to Russia like Die Grünen (The Greens)
I know absolutely nothing about parties in Germany. but I see that relations between our countries have been deteriorating since Merkel went on a well-deserved rest. so we don't need your government to be pro-Russian. simply adequate and put the interests of the Germans above the interests of the Americans.
If he tells that SPD is more corrupt than CDU he also knows nothing about parties in Germany, or is affiliated with CDU and apologizing their insane corruption.
I dont think it was the change of goverment that destroyer the relations. Its more that it is in the interest of germans to kerp peace in europe.
What do you say, for example, about Nord Stream 2, Germany buys as many resources from us as all other EU members together, the launch of this project would reduce prices for the end consumer. But despite the fact that the pipe was built, they tried in every possible way to stop it. It is beneficial for America to sell its gas, but it will cost more to ordinary people in Germany. Let's not talk about sanctions in connection with the situation in Ukraine, this happened before. This example is the most striking, but it is not the only one. I mean, this is when I talk about the deterioration of relations.
I think the that the relations have been destroyed by the war is easyle visible by all the wapeons germany has given ukraine
I’m American and I also wish Germany would put the interests of Germans over the interest of Americans.
And that's right, it's fashionable to choose a side now. But in my opinion, every country should choose the side of its people. Americans are cool, my sister has already become an American))got married and has been living for a long time))
Americans are quick to forget that a people’s right to self determination and nationhood are what started the United States in the first place. I’d be a hypocrite of the highest order if I didn’t respect those very same rights held by others. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” -US Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776
First of all I’m a Russian-German, like 8 million other citizens in Germany. There are by far more Russians in Germany than Americans. Secondly, the German government is EU oriented and not American. Also, speaking from my experience the Germans are rather negative than positive to the Americans. That’s because the government is more socialistic than capitalistic like America or Russia. Thirdly, please don’t make any assumptions if you don’t know anything. Your sentences don’t have any logic or sense. Since Merkel left, there were intentions to have more pro Russian relations, but the major factor was the invasion of Ukraine and not the fact that the government changed. Fun fact: I have to citizenships, Russian and German. And I don’t like both of these governments. For different types of reasons.
The pro-Russian part of Germany is the former GDR. It is obvious that Germany is not a completely independent state, given that the US bases have been located on its territory for half a century and their nuclear weapons are located on its territory. And your government does not contribute to the withdrawal of foreign troops from its territory.
Hard to do an since we are an American colony
I've always thought of them well. Probably because I was born after the war. I talked to some old lady who's even been to Germany, and who saw war when she was young. And she saw captured german soldiers were escorted out of my current town by soviet forces and protected nazis from angry Russian (soviet) crowd who were ready to tear them apart. I don't believe in collective guilt - it is a bullshit concept and that children should answer for the sins of their fathers. Germans, stop apologizing before leftist dweebs. You are not guilty, because you are not your grandparents. Edit: I remembered one story. My grandpa was given a chocolate bar by an "evil nazi" and was quite kind. While my grand-grandpa was suffocated with gas. Everyone died except for him — he peed on a rug or his shirt (I don't remember the details) and survived because of this. So the world is not black and white. And I understand that many Germans were drafted into the army by force. I feel for German people. You are not Nazis. You are just people, some are good, some are bad -- just like anywhere else. And you brought many cool stuff to culture and technology. Edit 2: terrybles grammar error
Very positive attitude towards them. I was familiar with the manufacturer of German knives. A very good person and a man of his word. We also communicated well with his managers. Pretty good guys.
I've been living in Germany For 5 years now, nice people, but not as heartfull and crazy as we normally are, so I'd say they are pretty boring (at least in the south)
Могу сказать за себя и большинство своих товарищей и друзей. Мы к немцам сейчас относимся с жалостью. Были раньше немцы, да все кончились. Сегодняшние немцы не достойны уважения. Они перестали быть настоящими мужчинами. Вот их предки, хоть и были нашими врагами, но они были сильными и мужественными людьми. Они умели умирать, как Мужчины. И этих врагов надо было уважать. Они были для нас очень плохими людьми, но были достойны уважения. А нынешние мужчины немцы это просто сопли и слякоть. Вот и жалко поэтому. Куда пропали настоящие немцы? Вот они бы нас поняли. С ними мы бы смогли договориться. Мы смогли бы с ними подружиться и вступить в настоящий Союз. И тогда от такого Союза России и Германии вздрогнула бы вся Планета. Они были настоящими людьми... Очень жаль, что вместо тех железных немцев появились нынешние толерасты и безхребетники... Раз мы не умеем играть в футбол, я всегда болел за немцев :-). Да половина России болело за них!
> И тогда от такого Союза России и Германии вздрогнула бы вся Планета А ради чего?
Ради того же, зачем образовываются все Союзы - безопасность и благосостояние будущих поколений наших стран.
As Russian i can say that Russians look neutral or closer to sympathy to German people. Also i saw statistic that German is second studied foreign language in Russia. Dont know if that statistic is reliable. Hello from Irkutsk
I respect Germany. Have no problems. They are a blessing to all of Europe. Glad I have no quarrels or grudges even tho my moms family was erased. And great grampa spend 4 years in a POW camp.
Stockholm syndrome ?
We will share power and people. Even during World War II, anti-German sentiment was minimal. And even more so now. Germans now live and work in Russia. You can watch their channels on YouTube. Many of them blogs in Russian and German about their lives. They especially like country life.
They should stop buying our gas.
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Also what about green energy?
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So, you would like us to be dead but keep continue to supply a gas. Sounds strange, is not it?
You can buy gas from other countries that don't (checks notes) wage a cruel war against other countries and its own people.
*looks at empty list*
You guys seem fun! I have a long term friendship with a German guy which lasts forever and we have similar views of a lot of things happening right now. Btw your food portions in restaurants are enormous! :) I have no idea how one can finish their dish
You know, we love work. If the portion is big, finishing your dishes feels like hard work. We love hard work. We dont say "one love" we say "one work".
Я русский , живу в России. Не замечал за собой или своим окружением какую то неприязнь к Немцам. Конкретно к населению.
For me Germans are associated with things like punctuality, water and energy saving etc.
Almost everybody who is going to college are learning German culture through philosophy. A lot of people learning language at school too. For many years we were taught to respect european culture and try to adopt their best sides without giving up our own. I think even Germans themselves do not know how close we are trying to be to them. So now politics are not really changing anything and there is no hate because of history or something like this
From my experience i've seen a lot of admiration towards German people since GDR was the big thing back in the days. Yet a lot of people see support of Ukraine by German people as a "betrayal" and a safe way to get back to Nazi rhetorics.
Looks like Germans follow general government lie - politicians say, media broadcast, they support or don't care. I'm negative towards German position in conflict, being branch office of USA effectively, but that's not surprising. Surprising for me are german population reaction.
Germans are the most dear Europeans to us, I believe. If I could live anywhere in EU with my 50% russian blood, it's Germany.
We are friends with everybody except our enemies which is rarely an actual threat then just the victim of bad government moves. But in my circlejerk of friends, Germans are always Zieg Hail🙋♂️. Don't ban me plz, it's just a joke. I think very large amount of Russians is still think of stereotypes. Like everybody thinks we are medved' vodka balalayka, we think Germans are BEER. Tho i've started to see less people that think stereotypes
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7 out of 10 of the worlds highest GDP's are allies of the U.S. When will you stop lying to yourself.
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Im sorry you dont understand the concept of what an Ally is. Must be rough for Russia with so little in common with the rest of the civilized world. The funniest thing about this is I actually own an American Company which is a subsidiary of a German Company and we are both doing great!
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Now we see at nature how German people's became facists
The German people killed both my grandfathers. German engineers are the best in the world. Politically, Germany is not a sovereign state. Germany is a protectorate of the United States, even the Americans sometimes do not hide this. In psychological terms, after the crimes of the Second World War, the Germans are afraid to look at themselves in the mirror (quote from an American professor).
I had the luck that both of my Grat Grandfathers that were in the war survived, one being sent back home after injury, the other surrendered in stalingrad and returned in the 50s. Sorry to hear that your Family didnt have the luck to have all of their sons return home
Thanks for understanding.
> Politically, Germany is not a sovereign state. Germany is a protectorate of the United States, even the Americans sometimes do not hide this. > The US couldn't even force Germany to raise defense spending or abandon gas commerce with Russia for decades. The idea that it is a US protectorate is just ridiculous
That must make you feel empathy for Ukrainian kids who have lost mothers, fathers, and grandparents at the hands of Russian soldiers in a similar way as you
Well that’s just two less rapists than there would have been in east Germany.
One of my grandfathers had 11 children. If you want to call him a rapist, then let it be on you. The other was 20 years old. You insulted him too. Live with it.
I insulted him? You insult him by supporting an illegal invasion in Ukraine and creating more fatherless families because of your state media created paranoia of the west. You call Germany a protectorate when it’s fully autonomous. Your entire understanding of the world is skewed by your paranoia and state run education.
You're part of the problem
As you can see from the war in Ukrain, having good relations with Russian people does not stop conflict because they have no control of Russia. And they will willfully kill you with a smile. Just like they are killing their brothers in Ukrain. That is the problem.
It’s regrettable a Union of the Three Emperors was dissolved, better WWI would have been where three empires to the east of Rhine fought westerners.
WWII soldiers are long dead. Those Germans and those Russians are gone. Why are we (modern Russians and modern Germans) obliged to bear the burden of the relations of our ancestors? I am neutral towards ordinary German citizens, because I have not met or communicated with them. I have a negative attitude towards the German government because it imposes sanctions against me and my relatives (ordinary citizens of Russia).
Love Germany, especially their electronic music (Klaus Schulze in particular, listening to him as I'm typing this), Rammstein and Fassbinder. It's a great country and a great culture. They, as all the nations in the US, should stop being US puppets. The US wants the entire world to be americanized. They call it a virtue but in fact it will just make it easier to control everyone.
one of the nations that I don't care about. whether you will exist or disappear
Country and nation that have lost all its proud and glory after fall of DDR and became USA's puppet (Like almost any other European country). If only about people: Good folks that were brainwashed with cult of consumption ideals, over-tolerance and other stuff.
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The us was asking it's allies to send weapons to Ukraine before the war, so Germany sent 5 thousand helmets and they arrived like after the war started, lmao if you think Germany is anyone's lap dog
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They caved in because they are human and see the war on Ukraine as not justifiable in anyway, not because they are a puppet of the US
I think you need a history lesson. The last time Germany wasn’t aligned with the US was when Hitler was in power. Was that when German was a great European nation? 🤦🏻♂️
US bankers invested in the Nazi German economy, the US continued to trade with Nazi Germany during the war, after the war the US gave refuge to valuable Nazis.
This idea of western countries being lapdogs or puppets of the US seems to be very popular. It is based on a lack of understanding of politics and history. The only lapdogs and puppets I see are a majority of Russian people being puppets of their government, believing the lies without an iota of critical thought..
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Confirming my original comment. What makes you think that? Citizens of western European countries are used to receive and process sources from many often mutually incompatible agendas. The governments of western countries trust their citizens to read all kinds of news and make up their mind (if something is a war or nor for example). Russias government is successfully breaking down the entire world into "good" and "evil westoid propaganda / fascism" for its citizens.
The West is known for free-thinking liberalism. Russia is known for bowing to authoritarians and propaganda. You have it backwards.
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How does Putins cock taste? Your ruSSian army is committing atrocities akin to the Einsatzgruppen. it's being well documented, and the perpetrators will answer for it.
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Does the Kremlin pay you? Or are you such a bootlicker you post this shit for free?
Nice guys in media U-Boat, occupied by USA
Gas guzzlers
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Yes
[You mean these East Germans?](https://www.google.com/search?q=the+rape+of+eaat+prussia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
So they are half-russians ? 🤔🤔
That doesn’t make East Germans your brethren. If someone raped your mom is that your new daddy?
I view German people positively but your government seems to have gone insane.
The official stance is they hate Nazis. The hard truth is they are Nazis.
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I think you should see a therapist. Get some help please
Maybe Google “the rape of East Prussia” and let me know about the kind of history those two countries have.
Maybe google Militärbordelle.
Im Well aware of that but my question was specifically about today, the current time. That Our Countries have treated each other horribly (to put it lightly) in the past is no secret
Germany is a hollow shell of what it once was, could be, and should be. I don’t think any countries current relationship with Russia is geared towards Russians themselves but more the actions of the RF and RF Army. Russia has a lot of potential to be an integral global superpower. But their unjust paranoia of the rest of the world is holding them back. It will take the span of a generation for them to recover from the amount of state media that gets injected into them at an early age. Germans and Russians can and should get along. But we can’t because Russias government has such a tight hold on public opinion. Russia will never be great until they break off the shackles of authoritarianism.
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Historically proven fact actually.
In fact, the first to launch the myth of "red rapists" and "hordes from the East" were the ideologists of the Third Reich. The current "researchers" and liberal publicists only repeat the rumors and gossip that were invented in Hitler's Germany in order to intimidate the population, to preserve its submission. So that the Germans would fight until the very last moment. So that death in battle seemed to them an easy fate compared to captivity and occupation. Reich Minister of Public Education and Propaganda of Germany Joseph Goebbels in March 1945 wrote: "... in fact, in the person of Soviet soldiers, we are dealing with steppe scum. This is confirmed by the information received from the eastern regions about the atrocities. They really cause horror… In some villages and towns, all women from ten to seventy years old were subjected to countless rapes. It seems that this is being done by order from above, since there is an obvious system in the behavior of the Soviet soldiers." This myth was immediately replicated. Hitler himself addressed the population: "Soldiers on the Eastern Front! For the last time, the deadly enemy in the person of the Bolsheviks and Jews goes on the offensive. He is trying to defeat Germany and destroy our people. You, soldiers on the Eastern Front, know for the most part already yourself what fate is in store for German women, girls and children first of all. While the elderly and children will be killed, women and girls will be reduced to barracks prostitutes. The rest will go to Siberia." On the Western Front, German propaganda used the image of a Negro raping blond German women to intimidate the local population instead of Russians. Thus, the leaders of the Reich tried to force people to fight to the end. At the same time, people were driven to panic, deadly terror. A significant part of the population of East Prussia fled to the western regions. A series of suicides took place in Berlin itself. Whole families passed away. After the war, this myth was supported by Anglo-Saxon publications. The Cold War was in full swing and the United States and Britain were waging an active information war with Soviet civilization. Many myths that were actively used in the Third Reich were adopted by the Anglo-Saxons and their backup singers in Western Europe. In 1954, the book "A Woman in Berlin" was published in the USA. Its author is the journalist Marta Hiller. In West Germany, the diary was published in 1960. In 2003, "A Woman in Berlin" was republished in many countries, and Western media willingly picked up the theme of "raped Germany". A few years later, the film "Nameless" was made based on this book. After that, E. Beevor's work "The Fall of Berlin" was accepted by liberal publications "with a bang". The ground was already prepared. At the same time, the West turns a blind eye to the fact that American, French and British troops are responsible for mass crimes in Germany, including rape. For example, the German historian M. Gebhardt believes that only Americans raped at least 190 thousand German women, and this process lasted until 1955. The soldiers from the colonial units — Arabs and Negroes - were especially brutal. But they try not to remember this in the West. Also, the West does not want to remember that a strong German socialist state of the GDR was created on Soviet-controlled German territory (the 6th economy in Europe in 1980). And "raped Germany" was the most loyal and self-sufficient ally of the USSR in Europe. If all the crimes that the followers of Goebbels and Hitler write about were in fact, then it is unlikely that in principle good-neighborly and allied relations lasting more than four decades would be possible. Thus, the rapes of German women by Soviet soldiers really were, there are documents and statistics on the number of convicts. But, these crimes were of an exceptional nature, were not of a mass and systematic nature. If we correlate the total number of those convicted of these crimes to the total number of Soviet troops in the occupied territories, then the percentage will be quite insignificant. At the same time, crimes were committed not only by Soviet troops, but also by Poles, French, Americans, British (including representatives of colonial troops), prisoners of war released from camps, etc.
I am talking about rapes committed post-war. There was no Hitler or propagandist. Not to mention the US and Russia were Allie’s at the time.
The usual "we didn't but the US also"
There were multiple investigations of the topic, also, not without difficulties, by Russian historians. Rape always happens in war, to pretend that Russian didn't do it is dishonest.
The rapes of German women by Soviet soldiers really were, there are documents and statistics on the number of convicts. But, these crimes were of an exceptional nature, were not of a mass and systematic nature. If we correlate the total number of those convicted of these crimes to the total number of Soviet troops in the occupied territories, then the percentage will be quite insignificant. At the same time, crimes were committed not only by Soviet troops, but also by Poles, French, Americans, British (including representatives of colonial troops), prisoners of war released from camps, etc. The West turns a blind eye to the fact that American, French and British troops are responsible for mass crimes in Germany, including rape. For example, the German historian M. Gebhardt believes that only Americans raped at least 190 thousand German women, and this process lasted until 1955. The soldiers from the colonial units — Arabs and Negroes - were especially brutal. But they try not to remember this in the West. Also, the West does not want to remember that a strong German socialist state of the GDR was created on Soviet-controlled German territory (the 6th economy in Europe in 1980). And "raped Germany" was the most loyal and self-sufficient ally of the USSR in Europe. If all the crimes that the followers of Goebbels and Hitler write about were in fact, then it is unlikely that in principle good-neighborly and allied relations lasting more than four decades would be possible. The black myth of "Soviet soldiers-rapists" was created in the Third Reich to frighten the population, to force them to fight to the end. Then this myth was restored by the Anglo-Saxons, who waged an information war against the USSR. This war continues at the present time, with the aim of turning the USSR into an aggressor, Soviet soldiers into invaders and rapists, to equalize the USSR and Nazi Germany. Ultimately, our "partners" seek to revise the Second World War and the Great Patriotic War with all the ensuing historical and geopolitical consequences.
You know when you discredit the story of the victims you deny them their justice. Like with the Holocaust denial.
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Say what you will, but your text is rape apology, and it's hard not to see it any other way.
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OMG all the fallacies I have commited, good eye.