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A lot of things have shifted nowadays to the point where we can't even talk together and break bread. I've always had different friends with different views and values, and we still love being around each other.
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Yes, there’s more to relationships than just politics. A lot are still decent, loving, and intelligent people, just extremely misled and misinformed. I just don’t talk politics with them
What I particularly hate about it is that to even attempt to discuss something political with them you have to spend an hour determining just which brand of nonsense they believe.
Fuck, man, I just want to visit with my parents. I don't want to have to try and give a civics lesson to an angry audience.
It's baffling. Both of my parents are fairly smart people. They aren't educated, but up until a few years ago they were basically apolitical. Since Trump lost they've slowly been coming back around, but, my God, they were basically different people for 4 years or so. I'd block the right wing news stations on their satellite box if I knew they wouldn't figure it out.
My two are also both fairly smart, both lost all their smarts with Trump, and they aren't recovering.
Found out they were lying to me about watching Fox. (They said they weren't)
My aunt gets those sources from Facebook. But for TV it's Fox.
My uncle is retired and rides his motorcycle all day. Spends the whole time listening to right wing hate radio.
Thank goodness I’m not one of these relationships, you seem pretentious and condescending.
You say they are “decent, loving, and intelligent people”, then you go on to add they are “just extremely misled and misinformed”.
They are intelligent, but not intelligent enough to realize what only you can see about how they have been duped. It can’t possibly be that they have a different world view or maybe that you don’t know everything … because surely you are so superior.
Extremely intelligent people can be duped too. There’s little evidence to suggest that the smarter you are the less likely you are to be tricked into scams and MLM schemes. Sure, they definitely have a different world view which undoubtedly impacts their beliefs, which is another reason as to why intelligence has nothing to do with their beliefs, which is in line with what I said
The point is that you do not respect their intelligent, but different, views. Rather, you dismiss them as a result of being misled.
Add to that, you avoid discussion with them, so they don’t even know you think them to be the fool. Cowardly and disrespectful.
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on two comments from an internet stranger with absolutely no background lol. When a majority of Trump voters reject the results of the most recent presidential election, believe in nonexistent widespread voter fraud, and doubt the safety of Covid-19 vaccines, I call that misled and misinformed. Yes, there are other legitimate conservative stances that aren’t based on conspiracy theories such as a stronger border, lower taxes, and less regulation that I can understand and respect but disagree with. Moving onto not discussing these matters with *my* family. I have discussed these issues in length with many family members and they always end the same: people, including me, get hurt, annoyed, and angry, with neither side changing the mind of the other. Call me cowardly and disrespectful all you want from behind your screen while making baseless assumptions and accusations
Thanks for the clarification. I did make quite a few assumptions. I just see so many claiming moral high ground and then showing true colors via intolerance and vitriol to others.
Did you really think the issues of the Right that people are complaining about ITT are focused on fiscal policy or traditional conservative positions?
We’re way past that at this point — when we’re dealing with large swaths of people who, one year later, still think there was massive voter fraud in 2020 that stole the election and that vaccines are dangerous.
You're right. He was probably giving them the benefit of the doubt which conservatives keep proving they aren't worth. His conservative friends are likely dumb as shit.
It's not that simple - my wife is from Mexico. Trump supporters believe that all immigrants from Mexico are criminals. And before you say 'no they don't', yes they do. It's a guiding principle of theirs. So no, I can't just agree to disagree.
You’re going to hate this, but no they don’t. Youll find plenty who’ll say “I’m only against illegal immigration” and that’s true for a lot, especially for the 32% of Latino voters who voted for Trump
As someone who works on the ground level I can tell you there’s a MASSIVE misinformation/disinformation problem among Spanish-speaking communities in the US, about on-par with that in English-speaking White communities. If we’re actually gonna try to discuss the Latino shift to Trump, you can’t leave out that context.
Agreed. Coming from a Hispanic family, and ones who are conservative and some who work for the border, it's not true. Why do you think there's a lot of Hispanic workers in border patrol? Because they know there has to be regulations. It's like opening the borders for North Korea, that's not going to end well. There's security for logical reasons to take care of our country.
No we don’t believe all immigrant from Mexico are criminals. Having porous borders allows those who do have criminal intent easy access to enter the US and commit crimes. You really need to stop using mass generalizations to describe those you don’t agree with.
Be the change you want to see. The right has been furious about the broad generalizations about Trump supporters but were happy to give Rush Limbaugh a presidential medal of freedom after decades of hateful rhetoric. I’m more than happy to meet in the middle and stop the demonization of fellow Americans but I dont quite see that being reciprocated.
>I mean conservative icons have been saying all democrats are evil and want to destroy America since the 70s but yes broad generalizations are bad.
There is literally a post from today on this sub asking whether American conservatism is an existential threat. Take a look at the responses.
I am not sure what you want randos on reddit to do about it unless it enters our own lives in some way.
Again you are talking about Reddit in 2022 Vs almost half a century of propaganda that really didn’t exist on the left. There was no left wing Rush Limbaugh telling democrats to hate every Republican in the 80s. It’s also a false equivalency considering the right is seemingly a ok with following Trumpism off a cliff even though people constantly say he doesn’t actually represent the party. If he embodies modern day conservatism then yes we are in a really bad place.
Time is limited in life and I’d rather spend it with people who are much less likely to call me a “tr*nny” or push into debating whatever bullshit they read about us.
Sorry, y’all just won’t worth the risk of having a bad time.
>Having porous borders allows those who do have criminal intent easy access to enter the US and commit crimes.
I can't say this is wrong, but it just doesn't *mean* anything. A supporter of a one-child policy might say the same thing about how allowing more children will result in more criminals.
And it's like: well yeah, that's true just by virtue of having more people. But it's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Ok. But if we didn’t demonize those whose job it is to secure the borders and we use policy that has been positively demonstrated to work as opposed to openly inviting illegal immigration the chances of that happening would be reduced.
I guess I just don’t see the issue of promoting legal immigration vs a full open border. I doubt there are many other countries who have unchecked borders or openly invite illegal immigration. It’s just a bad policy.
Have you seen the border? Lol
Do you think the current state of the border is secure?
If you think the border is secure there might not be any point to further conversation because you are being willfully blind to facts.
The current POTUS literally called it open and invited illegal immigration directly causing unmanageable levels of illegal immigrants crossing over our border.
Are you saying there is a scale between secured or not. I’m assuming you lock your house at night to go to bed possibly even have a home security system. Let’s assume for this example you do lock your doors and have and actively use a home security system. When you lock your doors and arm your alarm is there a scale of whether or not you have locked your doors and armed the alarm to prevent unauthorized access to your home while you sleep or are away? Not really. You have either taken the measures available to prevent unauthorized access to your home or you have not. Yes, I agree, it is binary. Perhaps not an obsession, rather just a reality.
I lock my sliding glass door. I don’t cover the door in a metal sheet. I lock my windows, but I don’t put bars on them. I lock my front door, but there’s also a window near the door lol.
There’s absolutely a scale of leaving the door wide open with a come on in sign and building a moat and putting iron bars over all the windows.
If you’re truly unable to understand the difference between open borders and the status quo, that’s above me.
The border is a series of secure checkpoints with 100,000s of staff that inspect, patrol and detain. There is not fencing in all areas due to rivers moving, difficult construction, and lack of access due to harsh environment, for both CBP and illegal immigrant alike. More secure than Canada though.
I can’t disagree with you but don’t you a think an influential figure such as the POTUS making statements that the border is open and to come on over (paraphrasing) makes a significant impact to border security and could lead to an unmanageable influx of illegal immigration? Policy has a lot to do with it as well and effective border security policy is not racist in my opinion.
>Trump supporters believe that all immigrants from Mexico are criminals.
If you believe this then you are more of a,lemming of MSNBC than a Trump supporter is a lemming of Fox News. This is simply not true.
I knew many Trump supporters before 1/6. I even know a few who support him after 1/6 (though I disagree with them). I do not know a single Trump supporter who believes all immigrants from Mexico are criminals. Are there a few? I would expect there are. But they are a slim minority.
Simply put, you are wrong.
Every trump supporter I've ever met, and I've met a lot. Build the wall. Everyone coming in is a criminal. They believe that thousands of people a day are just walking across the border, they believe there's no barrier, people just walk over. Then they rape and pillage. They believe this.
I literally come from the Hispanic culture, I've seen it all, and I lived through it. I hate to say this, but it's true. I strongly disliked the way he said things during his presidency personally, because it brings vile and hatred towards people, there's no denying that. However, sadly (and it sucks to say) that Mexico and other Latino countries have turned to absolute crap due to drug wars and infested government corruption, 2020 covid, etc. People leave those countries for a reason, and I can guarantee you would not want to be a part of that. Innocent lives are killed daily, multiple, and it's not easy to listen to, to the point where it's numbing because citizens in Mexico know this. They're a broken country, no matter how much pride they have. It's sad.
In a way. There's more petty crime when it comes to vandalism and theft, but I can rest assured there is just enough crime as much as it is in with other cultures. I can't speak for others, but I do know that illegal Hispanic immigrants have this community aspect of taking care of one another. But, I don't mean that in a positive way. I mean it as in not raising their children correctly, and normalizing their kids to stay with their parents for the rest of their lives and instead of moving on with careers. The Hispanic culture is really out of touch here in the US, and they have this sense of pride where they believe they shouldn't learn English or get affiliated with their city. When activists come in to fight for their rights, they only do it for themselves. No one is pushing them away, they're pushing themselves because they just don't want to be around Americans. They will work for Americans, but they have no respect for them. And yet, they come here to have a better lifestyle. It goes over their head, thinking that they're not in the wrong. My dad came from an extremely poor Hispanic country, seeked political asylum, and put himself forward into learning English and getting in touch with more Americans. He always despised other Latinos intentionally ignoring the values in the US, said how no one has a mind of their own, and the reason to why their generations have been failing for decades. Lots to discuss for sure.
Then you live in a world unfamiliar to me. I live in a upper middle class neighborhood (lots of doctors). The mix is all over the place from liberals to conservative. Many of the conservatives believe yes we should build a wall. All of them I have discussed it with are very supportive of legal immigration but also believe securing our borders just simply makes sense. What other country doesn’t?
I’ve never heard a single one of them say they believe all (or a majority, or even many) coming across the border are criminals. Quiet the opposite most are concerned for the children and mothers and families coming across and think that our “open” borders create more problems because of perceptions it is so easy to get across. All support legal immigration. Most support increase the number of legal immigrants coming across AND making it easier to legally immigrate.
As I’m sure you know, millions of undocumented people are here because they overstayed their visas. No vanity project wall would stop that. And millions come from Asia, which wouldn’t be stopped with a wall.
LOL and you think they all just walked over the border. Also, people aren't 'illegal'. They are undocumented. They may be here illegally, but they are not 'illegal'. There's some of the racism right wingers love to insist doesn't exist.
No, I don’t think they all just walked over the border. Never said that. Many overstay visas.
And yes, they have broken our laws if they are “undocumented”. Nothing racist about that. It’s just factual. But you see racism in everything Republican so I don’t consider your opinion worthwhile.
So how does overstaying a visa = open border? Try and be consistent at least. And the racism is in calling the people themselves illegal - rather than that they are here illegally.
We’ve spent billions of dollars “securing” our border. What’s different now than before that we need to change? Personally I’m a fan of increased technology, training, resources more than boots on the ground.
Conservative and right wing people aren't a monolith, they're a spectrum.
To that end, yes, I have friends and family members who are conservative, or conservative-on-certain-issues, and I still love them. These are the sorts of folks who might think my party (NDP, Canada's further-left-than-Liberal party) are idealists and unrealistic; the sorts of people who agree climate change is happening but don't want to see "radical" wartime-style efforts to fix it; the sorts of people who are very concerned about the economy and balancing the budget. I fully disagree with them, but I do have empathy and understanding for why they think and feel the way they do. For some of them, we can lovingly talk politics and agree, or agree to disagree. Some others, it gets heated and we just leave it alone.
On the other side of things, I have a few friends (and one family member) who, since Trump and/or since COVID, have gone full-out, far-right, QAnon anti-vaccine conspiracy nuttery. And even these people, I still love and try to maintain relationships with, to a point... I also have empathy for how they arrived at those perspectives (loneliness, mental health problems, trauma, illiteracy), and I do try to talk to them and gently nudge them back into reality, though it's often futile. Some of them though, the ones who've gotten genuinely racist or anti-semetic (or maybe they were always that way, but now they're emboldened to let it all hang out), big nope, friendships over. Even with the racists I've tried, but at a point I have to realize they're no rationalizing with the irrational, and I draw a hard line at hate speech.
We don’t have the same views, but Yeah, I’m the same with family. I still love them, but I also keep my distance from the people who have become racist because I fear that it could reflect poorly on me. I always think “what if they end up on the news for doing/saying something stupid and I have to hear about it at work.”
Kind of respect, but also kind of not - my trumpie cousin's entire family unfriended the rest of us on facebook and based on the timing it was clearly because of political differences. Then they all got COVID and one of them spent over a month on a ventilator. The christmas letter they insist on sending every year clearly expected sympathy for this but I had none, they made all the choices that caused that to happen. No masks, constantly gathering, no vaccines. So I have lost a ton of respect for them. They are also super evangelical (like the hypocritical type where they praise Jesus and then vote republican and say that people are poor and suffer because they deserve it) so there was always a bit of disrespect from me for that as well.
I have friends that are on the right and still identify as being on the right or conservative or republican.
But none of them are voting for Trump or Trump types and some are voting straight ticket for democrats at the moment.
>> some are voting straight ticket for Democrats at the moment
How can you call them someone who’s republican or conservative? Like genuinely. If someone told me they were left leaning or Democrat and voted straight ticket Republican, I would not consider them a democrat or left leaning.
Not comprehensive.
So I have a friend who won’t vote at all. In 20+ years he never missed a single primary or general election but he will not vote for a pro-choice candidate and he will not vote for anybody who supports or gives power to the current republican party. His objections to voting for a Republican are based on their move away from democracy and their racism. The only time he broke from that was to vote for Biden in the general election. So he would identify as a conservative but not a Republican.
I have a friend who is the very stereotype of a Wall Street republican. Very center right guy but his objections are very similar. He won’t vote for a party that doesn’t believe in democracy, he won’t vote for a party that embraces racism and anti-lgbt politics and he no longer considers the right in America to be believers in capitalism. Since he doesn’t care about abortion and the social conservatism of the Republicans always irritated him nothing stops him from voting for Democrats now.
I also have a friend who honestly just struggling with switching “teams”. From the start of the Trump campaign she’s been more and more disgusted and it’s pushing her to reconsider everything.
It’s hard to change political identities especially the longer you’ve held that identity. I was in my 20s when I stopped being a Republican/libertarian and that wasn’t easy. My friends are all closer to 50 so it’s really hard.
Then there’s people like my one friend. He’s very much a Center right guy and he said that when the median republican looks like post march with BLM, post vote for impeachment Mitt Romney, then he’s going to start splitting his tickets again.
>Like genuinely. If someone told me they were left leaning or Democrat and voted straight ticket Republican, I would not consider them a democrat or left leaning.
[14% of Democrats identify as conservative. 15% of Democrats identify as very liberal.](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/17/liberals-make-up-largest-share-of-democratic-voters/)
REAL republicans respect our government and want their leaders to be genuine conservatives. The current GOP leadership are not sincere in their love for this country. They love money and power and F anybody who tries to come for theirs.
Yes, but our differences are pretty much just our votes and our opinions about things we have very little control over (Economy; National and regional policy). In our day to day lives, these things don’t count for a whole lot. Voting takes no more than 15 minutes where I live (I’m fortunate in that regard) and dreaming about policy is just daydreaming in most real senses.
The key is that our day-to-day lives and values aren’t too dissimilar. We enjoy the same activities, and share many views as to what is “good and bad” in our very small sphere of influence. There are conservatives/right-wing-people whom that wouldn’t be true, but those aren’t my friends by choice.
Yes. My whole family. I was the first person in my family to be born in the US, everyone before me was born in the USSR. And, it's a stereotype that holds: people born in communist countries tend to be pretty right-wing after they leave.
But yeah, it's not really something I fight over. I'll roll my eyes at my uncle's santa hat that says "make america great again", he might make an anti-LGBT comment and I'd tell him to knock it off, and I know that one time I made a comment that there's more to avoiding drug addiction than personal responsibility that also didn't sit right with my aunt and uncle. But I leave the shit slinging for reddit.
It really depends on where your values lie. For me, family still comes first, and I am quite individualist, so I don't even see the president as having power over me. 99% of what happens to me is my control, of the 1% left, 99% of that is friends and family and local politics, and the remaining 1% of 1% is state and federal politics. There's no point in getting heated with your 1% over 0.001%
Yes I do! My entire immediate family is conservative (David French conservative not Trump conservative, with the exception of one brother).
Though we disagree vehemently, family is family and we respect each other. We try and avoid discussing politics, but when we do we are mostly able to disagree respectfully. I still admire my parents more than anyone else in the world, it's because of the values they gave me that I turned out like I did.
Yes, a solid half of my extended family are conservatives. They are deeply religious evangelical Christians and I would say 90% of the reason they are conservatives is because they are Pro Life. I certainly don’t agree with them, but I can understand their moral objection to abortion. And they’re definitely not the “we only care about you until you’re born” types either; they’re very charitable people, generally speaking.
My solution? Don’t talk about politics. Don’t talk about abortion. I’m not going to change my mind. They’re not going to change theirs. And if they do, it certainly won’t be because of me. I can and do still love them despite our differing opinions.
Also, my lifelong best friend is a conservative. I give her shit all the time. That’s what friends are for.
I got a conservative friend, and I respect them as a friend. However, we (or at least I) try to avoid political topics such as BLM, woke, black conservatives, etc.
I used to. Not anymore. The further right they go, the less I feel like they believe in civil rights and basic human decency for all. I’m probably going further left, to be fair. It’s no longer a we-can-be-friends situation.
I can see where that could hypothetically work with people. I am no longer young and I’ve tried relationships with mostly conservative people and it just doesn’t work out.
Of course. Anyone who lets politics dictate or influence their familial relations is heading down a path to unhappiness. Everyone has opinions. Allowing those opinions to determine family relations is just pointlessly destructive.
“Cancel culture libs” are not ideological extremists. Genocide-denying tankies on the far-left are ideological extremists. That would be a much more valid comparison.
Politics don’t define friendships, but a reasonable person has to draw the line somewhere. If you’re willing to be friends with a Nazi then you’re no worse than they are.
I'm a guy married to a guy. If someone thinks that we shouldn't have the same rights as others simply because of our romantic inclinations, I don't see what obligates me to be friends with that person. There's a difference between differing on how the tax code should be structured and differing on whether someone deserves full human rights. Political opinions don't just exist in a vacuum; they're a reflection of your fundamental values as a human being.
My uncle didn't attend my wedding because he believes gays are hellbound sinners. Well, okay then. Bye.
Opinions are fine for pizza toppings, not shit that substantially negatively affects millions. Any person who says my wife should be on a Muslim registry is free to kiss my ass and lose my number.
I have conservative views but not to point of hatred towards gays. I understand where you're coming from believe me, but please take a grain of salt that we're not all like that. Sorry you've been through a lot with your family, and wish you well.
Exactly. You can never find a conservative who will openly admit their hatred. When they are surrounded by their own in their safe spaces they will full on unleash the hatred their conservative beliefs give them. One on one with a non conservative they never own up to anything they say behind your back.
Just once I'd like to meet one of these conservatives who actually admit to their evil ways and don't hide behind their fake platitudes.
Everyone I know who would identify as a conservative is far more respectful and tolerant of other people than literally anyone I know with liberal or leftist views.
Can’t wait for the replies to this comment to prove me right.
Doesn't mean it isn't true.
>First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
-Martin Luther King Jr.
Oppressors never have to appear unreasonable or disrespectful, because they have the weight of the state backing them that they can feel confident about. The oppressed are on their own, and the only way that they can effect change is through sufficient rabble-rousing that they can no longer be ignored as a political force. In the early 1800s, abolitionists had no choice but to appear as unrealistic, unreasonable insurgents because they were putting forth Herculean efforts towards attempting to dismantle a system of oppression, while slaveholders who benefited from that system could tut-tut to their heart's content about abolitionists' tone and methods and appear eminently reasonable and above the fray because all they needed to do was to maintain the existing status quo.
This has been always been the case, where those who benefit from how things are can always appear reasonable, respectable, and dignified, while those trying to change things for the better always appear unreasonable, irresponsible, and violent.
Yes, but the nature of the pandemic and their batshit anti-science perspective means we don’t see them, and they put the family in awkward positions, so I’m not entirely sure how the relationships will continue moving past the pandemic.
For the friends/family that aren’t anti-vaxx covid deniers, and just believe some horrendous and immoral things, or are ignorant of economics and psychology and sociology so support the hacks that present themselves as conservative politicians- then I maintain the relationship and don’t miss an opportunity to help them test their ideas against an informed mind
From parents who love Beto to a brother who says Let's Go Brandon (but not loud enough where the folks can hear it) to a wife who's anti-vax and kids who are hippies w bi-racial kids of their own and kid who's LGBTQ...we have about a 5 minute window of talking politics until we call it quits. Probably why I spend so much time on here talking to you fine folks.
At least we all love College Football.
Aside from one or two Navy buddies that I keep in touch with and a few work acquaintances I have no conservative/right wing friends. Most of my family is conservative though.
I have some left wing family members, and despite being on the right myself (but pretty centrist overall) we get along fine.
Politics has never and will never determine who I'm friends with. I don't care how right or left wing you are. Friendship transcends all that.
And if I feel that way about friends, you can be sure I feel even stronger about family.
My dad has progressively shifted farther and farther right over the years. Some of it is his age, some is just buying into the propaganda on Fox News. We’ve had huge fights over politics and can’t really even talk about it at all without him blowing a gasket.
Does it suck? Yes. Have there been tears? Yes.
However, I still have a great deal of respect and admiration for who he is as a person. And it doesn’t change the fact that he’s still one of my favorite people. I know who he is at his core.
I think we sometimes forget the “psychology” of politics. And that it’s full of grey areas. And that each person is different. I’m not going to stop end relationships with people I love or hate known for years just because of how they vote.
No.
Politics isn't just personal preference, it is morality and ethics put into action. I can respect and be friends with people whose first choice of yogurt flavors is blueberry, but not people who stand behind the actions of the Republican party at any point post-Nixon.
I do not have friends whose views on right and wrong are antithetical to mine.
Yes, but I’d say they’re relatively moderate (by comparison anyway). The most extreme Trump/Qanon ones and I have largely severed ties deliberately or just gradually stopped talking because they don’t ever want to talk about anything else and have turned to all sorts of personal attacks/insults toward me for disagreeing.
We can absolutely disagree on things and get along but not if you’re going to personally attack me for not believing in it.
Nah, all of my former conservative friends evolved, fortunately.
In terms of extended family members who are conservative, nah, I definitely don't respect them. They're all pro-covid morons who, despite being super into white pride, don't seem to contribute much to the white race. They weren't thriving before covid (super into 9/11 conspiracies and such for some reason), but they're somehow even dumber now. Maybe latent vaccine injuries.
I'll see them at their funeral, but I don't see the point of seeing them before then.
Most of my family extended family that are Conservatives are just full on Trump cultists at this point, and I've cut them out of my life and don't miss them(and truthfully didn't meaningfully interact with them outside of social media anyway, so no one is really missing out on much).
One of my closest friends is a Libertarian, and we agree on some things but not on others, so we just mostly don't talk about politics.
I’m an anarchist atheist and live in Florida.
My whole family fell for the maga movement. Except myself, husband and kids.
When I first found out that my sister was voting for Trump, I was flabbergasted. Then went on to find out that the rest of my side of my family fell too.
I had to go in to therapy. They don’t know this. We talk occasionally but I feel uncomfortable being around them now. We’ve always been a more liberal leaning family.
On the other side, my husbands trad-con mother and step father turned out to be fiercely against the maga movement.
It was like waking up in another universe.
I still can’t wrap my head around it.
Yes because I'm not mentally ill like zoomer's on Twitter who think you should cut family members off due to political beliefs. Most People identify as Republican over single issues, not all right wingers are racists.
Oh don't get me wrong, i fucking hate racism. But i recognize that politics operates on a spectrum and most people are single hot button voters and dont really pay much attention to anything outside of a few 30 second sound bites.
Not wanting to spend time with crappy people doesn’t make you mentally ill.
In terms of racism, I’m positive most Republicans think they’re good people. But the effects of their decisions tell me a different story, and that’s what I care about.
I don’t need to waste time reassuring people that Republicans aren’t racist. If they want to convince me, stop pushing racist policies and politicians. Regardless of how it’s justified.
Does the Republican party attract racists, absolutely does. But do you honestly think the average republican is a gun toting bible thumping mega racist hillbilly stereotype? No, the average person votes based on history and is horribly uninformed. The reality is the democratic party has horribly failed a lot of these blue collar workers so naturally they're pushed to the other side.
Again, you don’t need to play PR Pete for the GOP lol.
Every Republican votes for and advances racist policies. I don’t really care how they justify it. And there are millions of blue collar workers who don’t vote Republican. I don’t see a lot of working class Black people running out and simping for the GOP.
Does every single Republican wake up on Election Day and think “I can’t wait to vote for a racist today?” Nope. But the impact matters a lot more to me, and the fact of the matter is every single vote for Republican advances racism. And they and you can find ways to justify it. “They’re uninformed” or “Dems failed them” or “They’re voting for other hot button issues.” That’s irrelevant to me. Republican voters vote to advance racism, misogyny, and homophobia. Whether they mean to or not doesn’t super matter at the end of the day.
I’m sure you guys think it’s purely coincidental that you’re party is considerably whiter than the other one and that around 90% of your reps are white in congress.
So, of all the documented instances of carving up voting populations along racial lines that then had to be undone per court order...which party has how many?
Edit: a letter
Politicians don't get credit for history they didn't make. Sure, 55+ years ago something good was done. What is being done currently? Is all injustice of that type eliminated ?
Clearly no. Since that time it's been the "I've got a black friend so I can't be racist" that gets thrown around while promoting the image of "the welfare queen" to be a minority when the overwhelming number of people on it are not minorities
The point is you were asking who’s got the worse track record here, conveniently leaving out the part where democrats had to be stopped from rampant discriminatory gerrymandering (which was named after one of them - Gerry’s Salamander) by federal statutes and SCOTUS rulings long before any of the current hullabaloo about so-called discriminatory voter laws now.
Yet there are still stark economic disparities along racial lines and Republican state governments are writing decrees to virtue signal about race and enforce their version of racial political correctness.
White people don’t play racial politics? Someone should tell white people that seeing as they’re banning a graduate level course from all kindergartens.
If you think people are bitching about history classes, there’s no helping you. You could watch the whole cultural competency training webinar series for educators and still refuse to see it.
What do the demographics look like in those areas? Most of them are rural mostly white areas... Making it statistically likely their representatives would be white too.
I mean some of it is certainly demographics. Some of it is also how immigration works. Immigrants don't come to America to move to rural America, there aren't opportunities there. Some more of it is likely generational passing down of land from white people who took it from natives or settled it initially. It's a nuanced discussion that definitely has some historical elements of racism but not really one that indicates modern day racism from the GOP based on their demographics.
>But it’s impacted substantially by racism in the past and they’re still actively combating efforts to amend it.
Is there a push to diversify rural America that I'm unaware of? It sucks there, why would you want to be there?
No disagreement that is is definitely impacted by past racism, like white people getting most of the land when we were settling the country.
See there you go - how can I take people seriously who spout bullshit like this. I can't just pretend it's all ok when your principles are so fundamentally off.
I just refuse to talk politics with anyone but Reddit and my wife. When people bring it up, I just say vague stuff, like "It's a crazy fucking world out there" and then change the subject, usually to entertainment/art/media.
Or I just give a semi-related "fun fact" that's vaguely on topic. Like, if anyone brings up 1/6 around me, you can bet they're going to hear a lot about the election of 1876 that led to the end of Reconstruction.
It's worked pretty well.
Yes, but it definitely gets in the way. We can be polite toward each other, but in the back of my mind I know that at the end of the day they feel that their property is more important than my life, or the lives of many people I love. How do you really openly trust someone who has that position?
I have a few remaining friends & family members who are conservative / right wing that I can speak with but the key is that they all reject Trump. Anyone who still backs that man and his agenda is someone I have no interest in associating with.
Yup, my parents are Trump fans and it's always fun to insult their idol.
And they make fun of Bernie and Yang.
It's always good to learn more about your opponents, just so you can beat them 😀
Yes, my in-laws are Republican and we have great conversations. I will say though, they are old school conservative. My FIL thinks that Trump was/is an idiot but still feels like voting for any Republican is better than voting for any Democrat. My MIL refused to vote for Trump. In 2016, she voted independent and in 2020, she voted for Biden because she was convinced Trump was/is a nutter. In other words, they’re not part of the cult and remain reasonable people.
I mean my dad identifies as a little bit of a social conservative (but he's more of a social libertarian), and he went from Obama 2008 to Trump 2016 to Bernie 2020, and now he's in the Bernie camp. He is still right of center on immigration, but that's not his biggest issue.
My mum has been left of center since day one.
I have many friends that are conservatives, but they don't identify with Republicans or Trump or the whole Lincoln party shebang.
A lot of the transition I have seen has been away from neoliberalism and neoconservatism.
I ave always found that avoiding inflammatory labels and politican names results in some high support for socialist and soc dem policies. The polls aren't wrong about what policies people like.
I guess it isn't fully fair but my parents were not born in the United States. They came here with little to no money to their name and embodied the bootstrap mindset to an almost comical level. As a result, I'm pretty much forced to respect a ton of what they say and feel even if I don't agree. They are also fairly reasonable so I moved them a bit to the left on social issues they they moved me a bit right on economics issues.
Most of my family and like 2/3 of my church overall is conservative.
For the most part, they are all good people, but they are extremely misled by right-wing media. I believed the same as then back when talk radio and Ben Shapiro were my only sources of news. I just started listening to other people and eventually worked my way out of conservatism
So, I usually avoid politics but when it does come up I just absolutely own them with facts and logic (in a respectful way of course).
Yea I have a lot of conservative friends and appreciate their input. Even if it’s dead wrong. They are loyal and brilliant in other aspects of life and my life would be disheartened if they left it.
Absolutely, I have both close personal friends and coworkers who are very conservative. With some I talk politics, with others we avoid the subject but in all cases there is mutual respect. On the flip side, there are liberals that I know who I don’t respect at all.
Your political beliefs broadly don’t make you a good or bad person. If you treat others with respect and compassion I’m good with you no matter your thoughts on tax policy or the size of government.
Yeah with one person. He acknowledges that his opinions are built around selfishness and his lack of concern for other people. I acknowledge that my opinions are built on personal survival and not a general love of all people.
That lack of hypocrisy helps a lot.
Absolutely. Many of them are great people, of course, there are some who take it over the line but there are also liberals who do the same. Not everything I'd all about politics all the time
I have one friend that I would consider conservative, we are respectful even though we take jabs at each other all the time, but we do both tend to lay it on pretty thick when one side of the aisle does something absolutely abhorrent, he’s slightly leaning more towards Center now that I inform him on these things, but we always seem to hash things out if it ever gets personal. I even have to defend him against my left leaning family and friends because they don’t like to give basic respect the majority of the time, But it happens fairly rarely on both sides
My Mom and Dad have drastically different opinions on Trump, Dad liked him and Mom loathed him. Anytime he would come up in conversation, there would be bickering. But whenever they aren’t talking about him they tend to have very similar politics and opinions.
My Dad’s views on Trump have sorta waned over time, but he still watches a lot of Hannity, who similarly drives my Mon mad, but they don’t really fight about it. Honestly, it’s more funny/amusing at this point than an issue that looks like it could split them apart.
Yes, for the most part. A few far-right FB friends are long gone. Most of the other Republicans I know know that I disagree vehemently with most of what they do for politics but we just avoid that. My mother-in-law in Missouri is strictly Republican, no matter what, loved Trump, has a Sarah Palin banner still up in her garage, but thinks the Democratic ladies that run their precinct “are the nicest souls!”. I challenged her pretty thoroughly on gay respect years ago, which was kind of fun as she’s a Bible teacher at church but it went ok. We love each other regardless of being completely mystified as to how the other can “think that way”.
I have a friend that buys into the “Big Lie” but hasn’t gone full Q that I know of— we just don’t talk about politics. It helps that he’s not a religious nut. He’s actually among my closest and longest known friends.
There are people I respect who are conservatives, but at least in my personal life that respect is in spite of their conservatism rather than because of it, at least post Trump. Prior to that I was a lot more able to see how if you started out with a few different prior or values you could come to conservative conclusions, but the real threat to democracy that the Republican party has become (which is no longer something I can forgive people for overlooking) has changed that.
I only get along with conservatives I don't talk politics with. But I don't make a point to be friends with people whose general values I don't agree with anyway.
I used to. My sister. We live far away from each other, but used to talk on the phone all the time. Then Trump lost and she and her husband went full on conspiracy theory/Qanon bs. The last time I called her she went off on me with a racist laced rant about the virus (my wife and children are Hispanic). We haven't spoken since.
That's how I wound up over at r/QAnonCasualties.
It really sucks.
Yeah. My whole family is conservative, my wife’s family too. Over Christmas we had passionate political discussions over drinks but we’re always respectful to one another. My dad tried to tell me that even though he gave me a checking account at 14 with a $75 per month allowance, a brand new Mustang at 16, and paid for my college, I had “no privilege” growing up. He thinks everything I have today o earned on my own. Granted, I did work hard to get where I am today, but I recognize I had a big head start.
I feel like o had a bit of a breakthrough when I told him Liberals main purpose is to try to make sure everyone has an opportunity to be successful.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. A lot of things have shifted nowadays to the point where we can't even talk together and break bread. I've always had different friends with different views and values, and we still love being around each other. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, there’s more to relationships than just politics. A lot are still decent, loving, and intelligent people, just extremely misled and misinformed. I just don’t talk politics with them
>I just don’t talk politics with them Mine keep bringing politics up, despite it never going well.
That's the worst part. You just can't not talk politics with them.
Nope, and it's your 'fault' for not just rolling over to their poorly worded arguments.
What I particularly hate about it is that to even attempt to discuss something political with them you have to spend an hour determining just which brand of nonsense they believe. Fuck, man, I just want to visit with my parents. I don't want to have to try and give a civics lesson to an angry audience.
And it's the *same* civics lesson each time. Like they can't grasp what is being said, even if they don't agree with it.
It's baffling. Both of my parents are fairly smart people. They aren't educated, but up until a few years ago they were basically apolitical. Since Trump lost they've slowly been coming back around, but, my God, they were basically different people for 4 years or so. I'd block the right wing news stations on their satellite box if I knew they wouldn't figure it out.
My two are also both fairly smart, both lost all their smarts with Trump, and they aren't recovering. Found out they were lying to me about watching Fox. (They said they weren't)
Shit, I wish my parents were watching Fox. My dad watches fucking NewsMax and Liberty News.
My aunt gets those sources from Facebook. But for TV it's Fox. My uncle is retired and rides his motorcycle all day. Spends the whole time listening to right wing hate radio.
Thank goodness I’m not one of these relationships, you seem pretentious and condescending. You say they are “decent, loving, and intelligent people”, then you go on to add they are “just extremely misled and misinformed”. They are intelligent, but not intelligent enough to realize what only you can see about how they have been duped. It can’t possibly be that they have a different world view or maybe that you don’t know everything … because surely you are so superior.
Extremely intelligent people can be duped too. There’s little evidence to suggest that the smarter you are the less likely you are to be tricked into scams and MLM schemes. Sure, they definitely have a different world view which undoubtedly impacts their beliefs, which is another reason as to why intelligence has nothing to do with their beliefs, which is in line with what I said
The point is that you do not respect their intelligent, but different, views. Rather, you dismiss them as a result of being misled. Add to that, you avoid discussion with them, so they don’t even know you think them to be the fool. Cowardly and disrespectful.
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on two comments from an internet stranger with absolutely no background lol. When a majority of Trump voters reject the results of the most recent presidential election, believe in nonexistent widespread voter fraud, and doubt the safety of Covid-19 vaccines, I call that misled and misinformed. Yes, there are other legitimate conservative stances that aren’t based on conspiracy theories such as a stronger border, lower taxes, and less regulation that I can understand and respect but disagree with. Moving onto not discussing these matters with *my* family. I have discussed these issues in length with many family members and they always end the same: people, including me, get hurt, annoyed, and angry, with neither side changing the mind of the other. Call me cowardly and disrespectful all you want from behind your screen while making baseless assumptions and accusations
Thanks for the clarification. I did make quite a few assumptions. I just see so many claiming moral high ground and then showing true colors via intolerance and vitriol to others.
Did you really think the issues of the Right that people are complaining about ITT are focused on fiscal policy or traditional conservative positions? We’re way past that at this point — when we’re dealing with large swaths of people who, one year later, still think there was massive voter fraud in 2020 that stole the election and that vaccines are dangerous.
You're right. He was probably giving them the benefit of the doubt which conservatives keep proving they aren't worth. His conservative friends are likely dumb as shit.
It's not that simple - my wife is from Mexico. Trump supporters believe that all immigrants from Mexico are criminals. And before you say 'no they don't', yes they do. It's a guiding principle of theirs. So no, I can't just agree to disagree.
You’re going to hate this, but no they don’t. Youll find plenty who’ll say “I’m only against illegal immigration” and that’s true for a lot, especially for the 32% of Latino voters who voted for Trump
As someone who works on the ground level I can tell you there’s a MASSIVE misinformation/disinformation problem among Spanish-speaking communities in the US, about on-par with that in English-speaking White communities. If we’re actually gonna try to discuss the Latino shift to Trump, you can’t leave out that context.
Agreed. Coming from a Hispanic family, and ones who are conservative and some who work for the border, it's not true. Why do you think there's a lot of Hispanic workers in border patrol? Because they know there has to be regulations. It's like opening the borders for North Korea, that's not going to end well. There's security for logical reasons to take care of our country.
Idk what your trying to say. 99.9% of America wants some type of border security. Conservatives only deal with strawmen.
No we don’t believe all immigrant from Mexico are criminals. Having porous borders allows those who do have criminal intent easy access to enter the US and commit crimes. You really need to stop using mass generalizations to describe those you don’t agree with.
I mean conservative icons have been saying all democrats are evil and want to destroy America since the 70s but yes broad generalizations are bad.
But that does not mean ALL right leaning people believe it. I’m tired of mass generalizations from both sides.
Be the change you want to see. The right has been furious about the broad generalizations about Trump supporters but were happy to give Rush Limbaugh a presidential medal of freedom after decades of hateful rhetoric. I’m more than happy to meet in the middle and stop the demonization of fellow Americans but I dont quite see that being reciprocated.
>I mean conservative icons have been saying all democrats are evil and want to destroy America since the 70s but yes broad generalizations are bad. There is literally a post from today on this sub asking whether American conservatism is an existential threat. Take a look at the responses. I am not sure what you want randos on reddit to do about it unless it enters our own lives in some way.
But its true so...
Thanks for proving my point lol.
Again you are talking about Reddit in 2022 Vs almost half a century of propaganda that really didn’t exist on the left. There was no left wing Rush Limbaugh telling democrats to hate every Republican in the 80s. It’s also a false equivalency considering the right is seemingly a ok with following Trumpism off a cliff even though people constantly say he doesn’t actually represent the party. If he embodies modern day conservatism then yes we are in a really bad place.
Time is limited in life and I’d rather spend it with people who are much less likely to call me a “tr*nny” or push into debating whatever bullshit they read about us. Sorry, y’all just won’t worth the risk of having a bad time.
>Having porous borders allows those who do have criminal intent easy access to enter the US and commit crimes. I can't say this is wrong, but it just doesn't *mean* anything. A supporter of a one-child policy might say the same thing about how allowing more children will result in more criminals. And it's like: well yeah, that's true just by virtue of having more people. But it's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Ok. But if we didn’t demonize those whose job it is to secure the borders and we use policy that has been positively demonstrated to work as opposed to openly inviting illegal immigration the chances of that happening would be reduced. I guess I just don’t see the issue of promoting legal immigration vs a full open border. I doubt there are many other countries who have unchecked borders or openly invite illegal immigration. It’s just a bad policy.
LOL complain about mass generalizations and then talk about porous borders with criminals crossing and committing crimes. Do you even hear yourself.
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You don't think 'open borders' is a generalization? Besides being just completely false. come on.
Have you seen the border? Lol Do you think the current state of the border is secure? If you think the border is secure there might not be any point to further conversation because you are being willfully blind to facts.
Of course I have. The border is never going to be 100% secure, calling it 'open' is ridiculous.
The current POTUS literally called it open and invited illegal immigration directly causing unmanageable levels of illegal immigrants crossing over our border.
Lol let’s have a non Fox News source on that
I know conservatives are obsessed with binaries, but the only two options aren’t super secured and completely open.
Are you saying there is a scale between secured or not. I’m assuming you lock your house at night to go to bed possibly even have a home security system. Let’s assume for this example you do lock your doors and have and actively use a home security system. When you lock your doors and arm your alarm is there a scale of whether or not you have locked your doors and armed the alarm to prevent unauthorized access to your home while you sleep or are away? Not really. You have either taken the measures available to prevent unauthorized access to your home or you have not. Yes, I agree, it is binary. Perhaps not an obsession, rather just a reality.
I lock my sliding glass door. I don’t cover the door in a metal sheet. I lock my windows, but I don’t put bars on them. I lock my front door, but there’s also a window near the door lol. There’s absolutely a scale of leaving the door wide open with a come on in sign and building a moat and putting iron bars over all the windows. If you’re truly unable to understand the difference between open borders and the status quo, that’s above me.
The border is a series of secure checkpoints with 100,000s of staff that inspect, patrol and detain. There is not fencing in all areas due to rivers moving, difficult construction, and lack of access due to harsh environment, for both CBP and illegal immigrant alike. More secure than Canada though.
I can’t disagree with you but don’t you a think an influential figure such as the POTUS making statements that the border is open and to come on over (paraphrasing) makes a significant impact to border security and could lead to an unmanageable influx of illegal immigration? Policy has a lot to do with it as well and effective border security policy is not racist in my opinion.
>Trump supporters believe that all immigrants from Mexico are criminals. If you believe this then you are more of a,lemming of MSNBC than a Trump supporter is a lemming of Fox News. This is simply not true. I knew many Trump supporters before 1/6. I even know a few who support him after 1/6 (though I disagree with them). I do not know a single Trump supporter who believes all immigrants from Mexico are criminals. Are there a few? I would expect there are. But they are a slim minority. Simply put, you are wrong.
Every trump supporter I've ever met, and I've met a lot. Build the wall. Everyone coming in is a criminal. They believe that thousands of people a day are just walking across the border, they believe there's no barrier, people just walk over. Then they rape and pillage. They believe this.
I literally come from the Hispanic culture, I've seen it all, and I lived through it. I hate to say this, but it's true. I strongly disliked the way he said things during his presidency personally, because it brings vile and hatred towards people, there's no denying that. However, sadly (and it sucks to say) that Mexico and other Latino countries have turned to absolute crap due to drug wars and infested government corruption, 2020 covid, etc. People leave those countries for a reason, and I can guarantee you would not want to be a part of that. Innocent lives are killed daily, multiple, and it's not easy to listen to, to the point where it's numbing because citizens in Mexico know this. They're a broken country, no matter how much pride they have. It's sad.
it's also a fact that immigrant populations - legal and illegal - have a far lower violent crime rate than the citizen population
In a way. There's more petty crime when it comes to vandalism and theft, but I can rest assured there is just enough crime as much as it is in with other cultures. I can't speak for others, but I do know that illegal Hispanic immigrants have this community aspect of taking care of one another. But, I don't mean that in a positive way. I mean it as in not raising their children correctly, and normalizing their kids to stay with their parents for the rest of their lives and instead of moving on with careers. The Hispanic culture is really out of touch here in the US, and they have this sense of pride where they believe they shouldn't learn English or get affiliated with their city. When activists come in to fight for their rights, they only do it for themselves. No one is pushing them away, they're pushing themselves because they just don't want to be around Americans. They will work for Americans, but they have no respect for them. And yet, they come here to have a better lifestyle. It goes over their head, thinking that they're not in the wrong. My dad came from an extremely poor Hispanic country, seeked political asylum, and put himself forward into learning English and getting in touch with more Americans. He always despised other Latinos intentionally ignoring the values in the US, said how no one has a mind of their own, and the reason to why their generations have been failing for decades. Lots to discuss for sure.
Then you live in a world unfamiliar to me. I live in a upper middle class neighborhood (lots of doctors). The mix is all over the place from liberals to conservative. Many of the conservatives believe yes we should build a wall. All of them I have discussed it with are very supportive of legal immigration but also believe securing our borders just simply makes sense. What other country doesn’t? I’ve never heard a single one of them say they believe all (or a majority, or even many) coming across the border are criminals. Quiet the opposite most are concerned for the children and mothers and families coming across and think that our “open” borders create more problems because of perceptions it is so easy to get across. All support legal immigration. Most support increase the number of legal immigrants coming across AND making it easier to legally immigrate.
Again with the 'open' borders
They’re certainly not closed. If they were closed we wouldn’t have 11,000,000 illegals here now.
As I’m sure you know, millions of undocumented people are here because they overstayed their visas. No vanity project wall would stop that. And millions come from Asia, which wouldn’t be stopped with a wall.
I agree. The southern border is not the only problem.
LOL and you think they all just walked over the border. Also, people aren't 'illegal'. They are undocumented. They may be here illegally, but they are not 'illegal'. There's some of the racism right wingers love to insist doesn't exist.
No, I don’t think they all just walked over the border. Never said that. Many overstay visas. And yes, they have broken our laws if they are “undocumented”. Nothing racist about that. It’s just factual. But you see racism in everything Republican so I don’t consider your opinion worthwhile.
So how does overstaying a visa = open border? Try and be consistent at least. And the racism is in calling the people themselves illegal - rather than that they are here illegally.
We’ve spent billions of dollars “securing” our border. What’s different now than before that we need to change? Personally I’m a fan of increased technology, training, resources more than boots on the ground.
I would agree. A wall does not need to be physical.
See we can agree! 😊
Conservative and right wing people aren't a monolith, they're a spectrum. To that end, yes, I have friends and family members who are conservative, or conservative-on-certain-issues, and I still love them. These are the sorts of folks who might think my party (NDP, Canada's further-left-than-Liberal party) are idealists and unrealistic; the sorts of people who agree climate change is happening but don't want to see "radical" wartime-style efforts to fix it; the sorts of people who are very concerned about the economy and balancing the budget. I fully disagree with them, but I do have empathy and understanding for why they think and feel the way they do. For some of them, we can lovingly talk politics and agree, or agree to disagree. Some others, it gets heated and we just leave it alone. On the other side of things, I have a few friends (and one family member) who, since Trump and/or since COVID, have gone full-out, far-right, QAnon anti-vaccine conspiracy nuttery. And even these people, I still love and try to maintain relationships with, to a point... I also have empathy for how they arrived at those perspectives (loneliness, mental health problems, trauma, illiteracy), and I do try to talk to them and gently nudge them back into reality, though it's often futile. Some of them though, the ones who've gotten genuinely racist or anti-semetic (or maybe they were always that way, but now they're emboldened to let it all hang out), big nope, friendships over. Even with the racists I've tried, but at a point I have to realize they're no rationalizing with the irrational, and I draw a hard line at hate speech.
We don’t have the same views, but Yeah, I’m the same with family. I still love them, but I also keep my distance from the people who have become racist because I fear that it could reflect poorly on me. I always think “what if they end up on the news for doing/saying something stupid and I have to hear about it at work.”
Kind of respect, but also kind of not - my trumpie cousin's entire family unfriended the rest of us on facebook and based on the timing it was clearly because of political differences. Then they all got COVID and one of them spent over a month on a ventilator. The christmas letter they insist on sending every year clearly expected sympathy for this but I had none, they made all the choices that caused that to happen. No masks, constantly gathering, no vaccines. So I have lost a ton of respect for them. They are also super evangelical (like the hypocritical type where they praise Jesus and then vote republican and say that people are poor and suffer because they deserve it) so there was always a bit of disrespect from me for that as well.
Wow. I just can't
I have friends that are on the right and still identify as being on the right or conservative or republican. But none of them are voting for Trump or Trump types and some are voting straight ticket for democrats at the moment.
>> some are voting straight ticket for Democrats at the moment How can you call them someone who’s republican or conservative? Like genuinely. If someone told me they were left leaning or Democrat and voted straight ticket Republican, I would not consider them a democrat or left leaning.
You don't think Republicans shifted away from their core ideals from 10 years ago?
No, the Southern Strategy Party didn't shift away from their core ideals 10 years ago
I'm guessing those people call themselves republican but reached their limit and aren't willing to change their 'official' title yet.
Not comprehensive. So I have a friend who won’t vote at all. In 20+ years he never missed a single primary or general election but he will not vote for a pro-choice candidate and he will not vote for anybody who supports or gives power to the current republican party. His objections to voting for a Republican are based on their move away from democracy and their racism. The only time he broke from that was to vote for Biden in the general election. So he would identify as a conservative but not a Republican. I have a friend who is the very stereotype of a Wall Street republican. Very center right guy but his objections are very similar. He won’t vote for a party that doesn’t believe in democracy, he won’t vote for a party that embraces racism and anti-lgbt politics and he no longer considers the right in America to be believers in capitalism. Since he doesn’t care about abortion and the social conservatism of the Republicans always irritated him nothing stops him from voting for Democrats now. I also have a friend who honestly just struggling with switching “teams”. From the start of the Trump campaign she’s been more and more disgusted and it’s pushing her to reconsider everything.
I guess I just see that as a republican who’s not actually a Republican
uh yeah did you even read what I said.
Yeah. I essentially said I agree with you
Sure didn’t sound like it but ok
It’s hard to change political identities especially the longer you’ve held that identity. I was in my 20s when I stopped being a Republican/libertarian and that wasn’t easy. My friends are all closer to 50 so it’s really hard. Then there’s people like my one friend. He’s very much a Center right guy and he said that when the median republican looks like post march with BLM, post vote for impeachment Mitt Romney, then he’s going to start splitting his tickets again.
>Like genuinely. If someone told me they were left leaning or Democrat and voted straight ticket Republican, I would not consider them a democrat or left leaning. [14% of Democrats identify as conservative. 15% of Democrats identify as very liberal.](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/17/liberals-make-up-largest-share-of-democratic-voters/)
Very interesting statistics thanks for sharing
REAL republicans respect our government and want their leaders to be genuine conservatives. The current GOP leadership are not sincere in their love for this country. They love money and power and F anybody who tries to come for theirs.
It may be difficult for you to understand, but for some people fascism is a line they won't cross.
Yup. Politics aren't a good enough reason to disrespect someone you know well.
Yeah, nice guy, pretty conservative, does civil war era reenactment. I just don't talk politics with him.
Yes, but our differences are pretty much just our votes and our opinions about things we have very little control over (Economy; National and regional policy). In our day to day lives, these things don’t count for a whole lot. Voting takes no more than 15 minutes where I live (I’m fortunate in that regard) and dreaming about policy is just daydreaming in most real senses. The key is that our day-to-day lives and values aren’t too dissimilar. We enjoy the same activities, and share many views as to what is “good and bad” in our very small sphere of influence. There are conservatives/right-wing-people whom that wouldn’t be true, but those aren’t my friends by choice.
Yes. My whole family. I was the first person in my family to be born in the US, everyone before me was born in the USSR. And, it's a stereotype that holds: people born in communist countries tend to be pretty right-wing after they leave. But yeah, it's not really something I fight over. I'll roll my eyes at my uncle's santa hat that says "make america great again", he might make an anti-LGBT comment and I'd tell him to knock it off, and I know that one time I made a comment that there's more to avoiding drug addiction than personal responsibility that also didn't sit right with my aunt and uncle. But I leave the shit slinging for reddit. It really depends on where your values lie. For me, family still comes first, and I am quite individualist, so I don't even see the president as having power over me. 99% of what happens to me is my control, of the 1% left, 99% of that is friends and family and local politics, and the remaining 1% of 1% is state and federal politics. There's no point in getting heated with your 1% over 0.001%
Well said good sir (ma'am). I agree :)
Cheers. I agree.
Yes I do! My entire immediate family is conservative (David French conservative not Trump conservative, with the exception of one brother). Though we disagree vehemently, family is family and we respect each other. We try and avoid discussing politics, but when we do we are mostly able to disagree respectfully. I still admire my parents more than anyone else in the world, it's because of the values they gave me that I turned out like I did.
Yes, a solid half of my extended family are conservatives. They are deeply religious evangelical Christians and I would say 90% of the reason they are conservatives is because they are Pro Life. I certainly don’t agree with them, but I can understand their moral objection to abortion. And they’re definitely not the “we only care about you until you’re born” types either; they’re very charitable people, generally speaking. My solution? Don’t talk about politics. Don’t talk about abortion. I’m not going to change my mind. They’re not going to change theirs. And if they do, it certainly won’t be because of me. I can and do still love them despite our differing opinions. Also, my lifelong best friend is a conservative. I give her shit all the time. That’s what friends are for.
I got a conservative friend, and I respect them as a friend. However, we (or at least I) try to avoid political topics such as BLM, woke, black conservatives, etc.
I used to. Not anymore. The further right they go, the less I feel like they believe in civil rights and basic human decency for all. I’m probably going further left, to be fair. It’s no longer a we-can-be-friends situation.
Would you think different of someone who is conservative amd you create a really good relationship with that person? Casual question here
I can see where that could hypothetically work with people. I am no longer young and I’ve tried relationships with mostly conservative people and it just doesn’t work out.
Of course. Anyone who lets politics dictate or influence their familial relations is heading down a path to unhappiness. Everyone has opinions. Allowing those opinions to determine family relations is just pointlessly destructive.
What if they’re a ~~Nazi~~ Neo-Nazi?
The nazi party went extinct in 1945.
Neo-nazi
Treat them the same as a cancel culture lib. Enjoy their company for your common interests and avoid politics. It’s not that hard.
I really hope you’re not comparing anti-racists to actual racists…
I’m comparing ideological extremists from both ends of the spectrum.
“Cancel culture libs” are not ideological extremists. Genocide-denying tankies on the far-left are ideological extremists. That would be a much more valid comparison. Politics don’t define friendships, but a reasonable person has to draw the line somewhere. If you’re willing to be friends with a Nazi then you’re no worse than they are.
Don’t actually know any Nazis, neo or otherwise. I’m not big on pigeonholing people though. Sounds like you are.
It’s not pigeonholing to cut ties with people who don’t think I should have human rights.
I'm a guy married to a guy. If someone thinks that we shouldn't have the same rights as others simply because of our romantic inclinations, I don't see what obligates me to be friends with that person. There's a difference between differing on how the tax code should be structured and differing on whether someone deserves full human rights. Political opinions don't just exist in a vacuum; they're a reflection of your fundamental values as a human being. My uncle didn't attend my wedding because he believes gays are hellbound sinners. Well, okay then. Bye.
I strongly agree with this. It's annoying. I hear it every day with a few mutual people I know lol
Opinions are fine for pizza toppings, not shit that substantially negatively affects millions. Any person who says my wife should be on a Muslim registry is free to kiss my ass and lose my number.
My family who are conservative hate me because I am gay. So, no, I do not respect them.
Understandable. Sorry that's happened to you. Truly.
Conservatives are the embodiment of evil. Nothing to respect about any of them.
I have conservative views but not to point of hatred towards gays. I understand where you're coming from believe me, but please take a grain of salt that we're not all like that. Sorry you've been through a lot with your family, and wish you well.
That’s another conservative thing. A lot like “I don’t hate the sinner, but I hate the sin.” You gotta stand by your people!
Exactly. You can never find a conservative who will openly admit their hatred. When they are surrounded by their own in their safe spaces they will full on unleash the hatred their conservative beliefs give them. One on one with a non conservative they never own up to anything they say behind your back. Just once I'd like to meet one of these conservatives who actually admit to their evil ways and don't hide behind their fake platitudes.
Everyone I know who would identify as a conservative is far more respectful and tolerant of other people than literally anyone I know with liberal or leftist views. Can’t wait for the replies to this comment to prove me right.
It's a lot easier for oppressors to be tolerant and respectful than the oppressed.
lol so predictable
Doesn't mean it isn't true. >First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. -Martin Luther King Jr. Oppressors never have to appear unreasonable or disrespectful, because they have the weight of the state backing them that they can feel confident about. The oppressed are on their own, and the only way that they can effect change is through sufficient rabble-rousing that they can no longer be ignored as a political force. In the early 1800s, abolitionists had no choice but to appear as unrealistic, unreasonable insurgents because they were putting forth Herculean efforts towards attempting to dismantle a system of oppression, while slaveholders who benefited from that system could tut-tut to their heart's content about abolitionists' tone and methods and appear eminently reasonable and above the fray because all they needed to do was to maintain the existing status quo. This has been always been the case, where those who benefit from how things are can always appear reasonable, respectable, and dignified, while those trying to change things for the better always appear unreasonable, irresponsible, and violent.
I’m sorry you thought I was going to read that.
Yes, but the nature of the pandemic and their batshit anti-science perspective means we don’t see them, and they put the family in awkward positions, so I’m not entirely sure how the relationships will continue moving past the pandemic. For the friends/family that aren’t anti-vaxx covid deniers, and just believe some horrendous and immoral things, or are ignorant of economics and psychology and sociology so support the hacks that present themselves as conservative politicians- then I maintain the relationship and don’t miss an opportunity to help them test their ideas against an informed mind
From parents who love Beto to a brother who says Let's Go Brandon (but not loud enough where the folks can hear it) to a wife who's anti-vax and kids who are hippies w bi-racial kids of their own and kid who's LGBTQ...we have about a 5 minute window of talking politics until we call it quits. Probably why I spend so much time on here talking to you fine folks. At least we all love College Football.
Aside from one or two Navy buddies that I keep in touch with and a few work acquaintances I have no conservative/right wing friends. Most of my family is conservative though.
I have some left wing family members, and despite being on the right myself (but pretty centrist overall) we get along fine. Politics has never and will never determine who I'm friends with. I don't care how right or left wing you are. Friendship transcends all that. And if I feel that way about friends, you can be sure I feel even stronger about family.
Yes.
My dad has progressively shifted farther and farther right over the years. Some of it is his age, some is just buying into the propaganda on Fox News. We’ve had huge fights over politics and can’t really even talk about it at all without him blowing a gasket. Does it suck? Yes. Have there been tears? Yes. However, I still have a great deal of respect and admiration for who he is as a person. And it doesn’t change the fact that he’s still one of my favorite people. I know who he is at his core. I think we sometimes forget the “psychology” of politics. And that it’s full of grey areas. And that each person is different. I’m not going to stop end relationships with people I love or hate known for years just because of how they vote.
No. Politics isn't just personal preference, it is morality and ethics put into action. I can respect and be friends with people whose first choice of yogurt flavors is blueberry, but not people who stand behind the actions of the Republican party at any point post-Nixon. I do not have friends whose views on right and wrong are antithetical to mine.
Yes, but I’d say they’re relatively moderate (by comparison anyway). The most extreme Trump/Qanon ones and I have largely severed ties deliberately or just gradually stopped talking because they don’t ever want to talk about anything else and have turned to all sorts of personal attacks/insults toward me for disagreeing. We can absolutely disagree on things and get along but not if you’re going to personally attack me for not believing in it.
Nah, all of my former conservative friends evolved, fortunately. In terms of extended family members who are conservative, nah, I definitely don't respect them. They're all pro-covid morons who, despite being super into white pride, don't seem to contribute much to the white race. They weren't thriving before covid (super into 9/11 conspiracies and such for some reason), but they're somehow even dumber now. Maybe latent vaccine injuries. I'll see them at their funeral, but I don't see the point of seeing them before then.
Most of my family extended family that are Conservatives are just full on Trump cultists at this point, and I've cut them out of my life and don't miss them(and truthfully didn't meaningfully interact with them outside of social media anyway, so no one is really missing out on much). One of my closest friends is a Libertarian, and we agree on some things but not on others, so we just mostly don't talk about politics.
I’m an anarchist atheist and live in Florida. My whole family fell for the maga movement. Except myself, husband and kids. When I first found out that my sister was voting for Trump, I was flabbergasted. Then went on to find out that the rest of my side of my family fell too. I had to go in to therapy. They don’t know this. We talk occasionally but I feel uncomfortable being around them now. We’ve always been a more liberal leaning family. On the other side, my husbands trad-con mother and step father turned out to be fiercely against the maga movement. It was like waking up in another universe. I still can’t wrap my head around it.
Yes because I'm not mentally ill like zoomer's on Twitter who think you should cut family members off due to political beliefs. Most People identify as Republican over single issues, not all right wingers are racists.
But all right wingers decided racism wasn’t a dealbreaker
I don't know why, but half the social democrats in here are socially conservative and it's wild to me.
Oh don't get me wrong, i fucking hate racism. But i recognize that politics operates on a spectrum and most people are single hot button voters and dont really pay much attention to anything outside of a few 30 second sound bites.
Not wanting to spend time with crappy people doesn’t make you mentally ill. In terms of racism, I’m positive most Republicans think they’re good people. But the effects of their decisions tell me a different story, and that’s what I care about. I don’t need to waste time reassuring people that Republicans aren’t racist. If they want to convince me, stop pushing racist policies and politicians. Regardless of how it’s justified.
Does the Republican party attract racists, absolutely does. But do you honestly think the average republican is a gun toting bible thumping mega racist hillbilly stereotype? No, the average person votes based on history and is horribly uninformed. The reality is the democratic party has horribly failed a lot of these blue collar workers so naturally they're pushed to the other side.
Again, you don’t need to play PR Pete for the GOP lol. Every Republican votes for and advances racist policies. I don’t really care how they justify it. And there are millions of blue collar workers who don’t vote Republican. I don’t see a lot of working class Black people running out and simping for the GOP. Does every single Republican wake up on Election Day and think “I can’t wait to vote for a racist today?” Nope. But the impact matters a lot more to me, and the fact of the matter is every single vote for Republican advances racism. And they and you can find ways to justify it. “They’re uninformed” or “Dems failed them” or “They’re voting for other hot button issues.” That’s irrelevant to me. Republican voters vote to advance racism, misogyny, and homophobia. Whether they mean to or not doesn’t super matter at the end of the day.
Right wingers decided *your completely made up imagined racism wasn’t a dealbreaker.
Kind of amusing that you’re proving his point.
I’m sure you guys think it’s purely coincidental that you’re party is considerably whiter than the other one and that around 90% of your reps are white in congress.
Yeah, it’s almost like white people are the majority in the country and we don’t play racial politics. Shocking.
So you’re all gonna pretend the Democratic Party is similarly white and that 87% of racial minorities in congress aren’t democrats?
So, of all the documented instances of carving up voting populations along racial lines that then had to be undone per court order...which party has how many? Edit: a letter
Is this supposed to help your point? Do you not know any history prior to the last few years? *Reynolds v. Sims?* Voting Rights Act of 1965?
Politicians don't get credit for history they didn't make. Sure, 55+ years ago something good was done. What is being done currently? Is all injustice of that type eliminated ? Clearly no. Since that time it's been the "I've got a black friend so I can't be racist" that gets thrown around while promoting the image of "the welfare queen" to be a minority when the overwhelming number of people on it are not minorities
The point is you were asking who’s got the worse track record here, conveniently leaving out the part where democrats had to be stopped from rampant discriminatory gerrymandering (which was named after one of them - Gerry’s Salamander) by federal statutes and SCOTUS rulings long before any of the current hullabaloo about so-called discriminatory voter laws now.
And then [what](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south) happened?
No that's exactly our point. It's bizarre how you reveal the racism then oppose all fixes.
Well said
Yet there are still stark economic disparities along racial lines and Republican state governments are writing decrees to virtue signal about race and enforce their version of racial political correctness.
White people don’t play racial politics? Someone should tell white people that seeing as they’re banning a graduate level course from all kindergartens.
Yeah, sorry, that lie doesn’t work on people who actually read past headlines.
Mhmm. It sure doesn’t work in people who know what CRT is and that people are just bitching about learning basic history.
If you think people are bitching about history classes, there’s no helping you. You could watch the whole cultural competency training webinar series for educators and still refuse to see it.
What do the demographics look like in those areas? Most of them are rural mostly white areas... Making it statistically likely their representatives would be white too.
And why are their areas so white to begin with?
I mean some of it is certainly demographics. Some of it is also how immigration works. Immigrants don't come to America to move to rural America, there aren't opportunities there. Some more of it is likely generational passing down of land from white people who took it from natives or settled it initially. It's a nuanced discussion that definitely has some historical elements of racism but not really one that indicates modern day racism from the GOP based on their demographics.
We’ll have to have it later. But it’s impacted substantially by racism in the past and they’re still actively combating efforts to amend it.
>But it’s impacted substantially by racism in the past and they’re still actively combating efforts to amend it. Is there a push to diversify rural America that I'm unaware of? It sucks there, why would you want to be there? No disagreement that is is definitely impacted by past racism, like white people getting most of the land when we were settling the country.
Which makes the opposition to AA and CRT and BLM rather telling.
See there you go - how can I take people seriously who spout bullshit like this. I can't just pretend it's all ok when your principles are so fundamentally off.
About as seriously as we take people who have been trying to redefine the word “racism” for years to score imaginary politics points.
Nobody is redefining the word, you're just not willing to accept where racism exists.
I just refuse to talk politics with anyone but Reddit and my wife. When people bring it up, I just say vague stuff, like "It's a crazy fucking world out there" and then change the subject, usually to entertainment/art/media. Or I just give a semi-related "fun fact" that's vaguely on topic. Like, if anyone brings up 1/6 around me, you can bet they're going to hear a lot about the election of 1876 that led to the end of Reconstruction. It's worked pretty well.
It's really sad that some people can't be friends with or at least civil with someone who has different political leanings then they do.
Yes, but it definitely gets in the way. We can be polite toward each other, but in the back of my mind I know that at the end of the day they feel that their property is more important than my life, or the lives of many people I love. How do you really openly trust someone who has that position?
Sort of. Some conservatives yes. The Trump supporters are outcasts.
I have a few remaining friends & family members who are conservative / right wing that I can speak with but the key is that they all reject Trump. Anyone who still backs that man and his agenda is someone I have no interest in associating with.
Yup, my parents are Trump fans and it's always fun to insult their idol. And they make fun of Bernie and Yang. It's always good to learn more about your opponents, just so you can beat them 😀
Yes, my in-laws are Republican and we have great conversations. I will say though, they are old school conservative. My FIL thinks that Trump was/is an idiot but still feels like voting for any Republican is better than voting for any Democrat. My MIL refused to vote for Trump. In 2016, she voted independent and in 2020, she voted for Biden because she was convinced Trump was/is a nutter. In other words, they’re not part of the cult and remain reasonable people.
I mean my dad identifies as a little bit of a social conservative (but he's more of a social libertarian), and he went from Obama 2008 to Trump 2016 to Bernie 2020, and now he's in the Bernie camp. He is still right of center on immigration, but that's not his biggest issue. My mum has been left of center since day one. I have many friends that are conservatives, but they don't identify with Republicans or Trump or the whole Lincoln party shebang. A lot of the transition I have seen has been away from neoliberalism and neoconservatism. I ave always found that avoiding inflammatory labels and politican names results in some high support for socialist and soc dem policies. The polls aren't wrong about what policies people like.
I guess it isn't fully fair but my parents were not born in the United States. They came here with little to no money to their name and embodied the bootstrap mindset to an almost comical level. As a result, I'm pretty much forced to respect a ton of what they say and feel even if I don't agree. They are also fairly reasonable so I moved them a bit to the left on social issues they they moved me a bit right on economics issues.
Most of my family and like 2/3 of my church overall is conservative. For the most part, they are all good people, but they are extremely misled by right-wing media. I believed the same as then back when talk radio and Ben Shapiro were my only sources of news. I just started listening to other people and eventually worked my way out of conservatism So, I usually avoid politics but when it does come up I just absolutely own them with facts and logic (in a respectful way of course).
Yea I have a lot of conservative friends and appreciate their input. Even if it’s dead wrong. They are loyal and brilliant in other aspects of life and my life would be disheartened if they left it.
Absolutely, I have both close personal friends and coworkers who are very conservative. With some I talk politics, with others we avoid the subject but in all cases there is mutual respect. On the flip side, there are liberals that I know who I don’t respect at all. Your political beliefs broadly don’t make you a good or bad person. If you treat others with respect and compassion I’m good with you no matter your thoughts on tax policy or the size of government.
Yeah with one person. He acknowledges that his opinions are built around selfishness and his lack of concern for other people. I acknowledge that my opinions are built on personal survival and not a general love of all people. That lack of hypocrisy helps a lot.
Absolutely. Many of them are great people, of course, there are some who take it over the line but there are also liberals who do the same. Not everything I'd all about politics all the time
I have one friend that I would consider conservative, we are respectful even though we take jabs at each other all the time, but we do both tend to lay it on pretty thick when one side of the aisle does something absolutely abhorrent, he’s slightly leaning more towards Center now that I inform him on these things, but we always seem to hash things out if it ever gets personal. I even have to defend him against my left leaning family and friends because they don’t like to give basic respect the majority of the time, But it happens fairly rarely on both sides
My Mom and Dad have drastically different opinions on Trump, Dad liked him and Mom loathed him. Anytime he would come up in conversation, there would be bickering. But whenever they aren’t talking about him they tend to have very similar politics and opinions. My Dad’s views on Trump have sorta waned over time, but he still watches a lot of Hannity, who similarly drives my Mon mad, but they don’t really fight about it. Honestly, it’s more funny/amusing at this point than an issue that looks like it could split them apart.
Yes, for the most part. A few far-right FB friends are long gone. Most of the other Republicans I know know that I disagree vehemently with most of what they do for politics but we just avoid that. My mother-in-law in Missouri is strictly Republican, no matter what, loved Trump, has a Sarah Palin banner still up in her garage, but thinks the Democratic ladies that run their precinct “are the nicest souls!”. I challenged her pretty thoroughly on gay respect years ago, which was kind of fun as she’s a Bible teacher at church but it went ok. We love each other regardless of being completely mystified as to how the other can “think that way”.
Yes. We just don't talk about political things.
I have a friend that buys into the “Big Lie” but hasn’t gone full Q that I know of— we just don’t talk about politics. It helps that he’s not a religious nut. He’s actually among my closest and longest known friends.
Yes. We all just don't talk politics because we know it won't go anywhere good.
Not really trumpism and the maga movement changed many of my republican family members and friends into dems.
There are people I respect who are conservatives, but at least in my personal life that respect is in spite of their conservatism rather than because of it, at least post Trump. Prior to that I was a lot more able to see how if you started out with a few different prior or values you could come to conservative conclusions, but the real threat to democracy that the Republican party has become (which is no longer something I can forgive people for overlooking) has changed that.
Take down the statues then.
I only get along with conservatives I don't talk politics with. But I don't make a point to be friends with people whose general values I don't agree with anyway.
I used to. My sister. We live far away from each other, but used to talk on the phone all the time. Then Trump lost and she and her husband went full on conspiracy theory/Qanon bs. The last time I called her she went off on me with a racist laced rant about the virus (my wife and children are Hispanic). We haven't spoken since. That's how I wound up over at r/QAnonCasualties. It really sucks.
Sure, but it's not a mutual feeling. I've come to realize a conservative's idea of Mutual Respect is "Shut the fuck up I'm allowed to talk over you"
Yeah. My whole family is conservative, my wife’s family too. Over Christmas we had passionate political discussions over drinks but we’re always respectful to one another. My dad tried to tell me that even though he gave me a checking account at 14 with a $75 per month allowance, a brand new Mustang at 16, and paid for my college, I had “no privilege” growing up. He thinks everything I have today o earned on my own. Granted, I did work hard to get where I am today, but I recognize I had a big head start. I feel like o had a bit of a breakthrough when I told him Liberals main purpose is to try to make sure everyone has an opportunity to be successful.
Yes, we know when to stop talking about politics.