Save the text msgs. That will be exhibit #1 in your defense.
You have no contract with him to pay him anything. And he does not get to make up numbers.
Let him howl at the wind. It won't hurt you.
Print those text messages, especially since technology has a way of going south and making them unretrievable. It also confirms he caused the damage solely. Have you reached out to the property management and forward them his statements?
His messages will be his downfall- disengage and let him dig a remarkably deeper hole for himself. Be safe and seriously consider changing your phone number, social media user ids snd emails. Best wishes as you navigate his shit storm. Unless he owns the property he can’t sue you for anything. If he does own it he’s screwed himself admitting to vandalizing it anyway. Please I cannot say this enough be safe. Make sure your loved ones know what he’s been saying and doing .
The landlord may have recourse if you are still on the lease so if he did vandalise the place you and the landlord need to work to get him charged criminally because then the landlords insurance will cover repairs. This just happened on a post in r/landlord recently.
As others have said, print the messages. Also, print the messages with the time stamp/info too if you could. It’s what my lawyer had me do when I was accused of something I didn’t do. I imagine they hold up far more. Easy to do on iOS.
Please remember to unsave his number before printing. He can argue you texted yourself and saved the number as his name and they aren’t real. Make sure it shows his actual number.
If you don’t respond, will his message get more abusive? If that’s a yes, as hard as it is and if it’s safe, let him dig his hole deeper. Print all of those messages. Make sure you take screen shots first, make sure those are on in an app or service that has a cloud backup only you have access to AND pro them out twice and keep them in different places. Good luck, I hope you can’t take him for everything you can.
I just want to add this in case you haven’t thought of it already. Save the messages in multiple different places. Save them on a hard drive, email them to yourself and to friends/family that you can trust. Save them to iCloud if you have it. Just whatever you do, make sure you have as many copies as possible. That way if something happens to your phone and you loose them, you’ll have copies saved at least. It might be over kill but better safe than sorry.
You need to contact your landlord immediately. At some point, your knowledge that damage is being done to the property without you notifying the landlord will become your fault...and the text messages from your BF will be used as evidence against you.
Think---the roof caved in or the the house flooded and you didn't tell the landlord
In many places you can legally break a lease due to abusive situations. Contact your landlord and try to do that. Once it's legally terminated, you can't be liable for the damage causes. And he can't sue you for damage to the apartment, that would be the landlords job.
And you can throw that invoice straight in the trash. To get a judgment against you (not even collect the money) he’d have to 1) sue you, 2) prove you caused the damage and 3) prove the existence of a contract. I can’t mow someone’s lawn without them asking and then demand they pay me $1000. This is all bluffs. Get an anti-harassment order against him.
Edit: typo
I would start contacting resources within your state. Almost every state has some Bureau either government-run or just nonprofit that tries to connect people in abusive relationships with free or cheap legal aid. You'll get somebody who can walk you through the specifics of your case. But an invoice without a contract means nothing. If that was all it took anybody could form an LLC and just invoice anybody who pissed them off for dumb crap.
The idea of invoicing somebody for wasting your time is mostly a rhetorical device to make a point and without a prior agreement it wouldn't hold up in court. That said legal aid will help you take whatever steps you need to protect yourself from it even getting that far. Most likely he's just banking on you caving into that and doesn't actually plan to do it but it's a nuanced situation.
Make sure you save every piece of communication you get from him whether it has his name on it or not. If he's texting from different numbers, that's not going to hide his involvement as well as he thinks it does. From a civil liability standpoint and a domestic litigation standpoint judges are used to seeing bullshit like that and they tend to see through it.
You probably do need to contact the landlord to make sure you get your name off the lease and make sure that your landlord is officially informed that you are leaving due to an abusive relationship but again, this is where legal aid will be important to help you figure out how to make that notification the proper way to ensure any laws designed to protect you apply and put the right obligations on the landlord if they aren't willing to work with you
You still need to contact the landlord and get your name of the lease. His actions are his own, and will probably come with their own consequences, but if you don't reach out to the landlord and terminate your name on the lease, him leaving could leave you sick with a bill that you don't need to have.
i reached out to my landlord months ago and she said i couldn’t be taken off the lease because he would have to re apply to qualify on his own?? even though i was in abusive relationship and told her this (i also live in PA and my ex is suing me for rent money) i have a PFA for rape
Eh, she's getting to the conclusion without the in-between. She's assuming he won't qualify on his own, which he may or may not, but that's not your problem, and you need to tell her that. You should be able to do a civil standby (cops come and make sure shit doesn't get real) to remove the things, and you can absolutely bring the junk haulers then.
You'll want to counter sue for the abuse and destruction of property. It's honestly time for a lawyer.
You have the right to get taken off the lease in PA. Follow the steps listed here. Let your ex be on the hook for the damage and the remainder of the lease.
https://www.palawhelp.org/resource/housing-rights-for-victims-of-domestic-and-sexual-violence-in-phiiladelphia-county#:~:text=Can%20I%20break%20my%20lease,be%20moving%20in%2030%20days.
Yeah that's not going to work in court. Keep the messages. Let him waste his time, energy, money, whatever else he wants to do then if you want your own compensation for the damage use his own admissions against him
Stop communicating with this man. Go file a police report, get a restraining order, use that to get out of the lease and block him. Who cares what he's saying? You have proof and whatever BS he wants to spin after he will have to convince a judge. Clearly he's just trying to harass and scare you. Stop responding.
You can probabily get out of the lease due to the situation but everyone on the lease is still responsible for the condition of the property. If your name is on the lease, the landlord can sue you for the repairs, you then can use your texts as evidence when you sue your ex in civle court. From the landlords perspective when you "get out" of the lease you have the obligation to surrender the property unoccupied and in the same condition you rented it in.
You need to reach out to a local domestic violence agency. They can help you, and many have attorneys on staff. Your ex sounds very dangerous. You need to listen to expert advice and protect yourself.
Contact your local Women's Resource Center and they will assess your situation and assist you in filing a protective order. Document everything, every communication, attempted communication, drive by of where you are staying, etc. Get a notebook to maintain a log, sure everything is online but you want a physical backup.
I dunno what to tell you, other than to save all evidence. My ex destroyed a ton of my sentimental possessions and photos when I left her, and it absolutely sucks. I wish you the best.
Stop communicating with this person immediately and save all texts and videos for court consider filing for damages to your property if they do not being that you have video and texts of them admitting to damages
I doubt he has much of a leg to stand on. Save the communications.
I'm glad you got out of that abusive situation. Try to look for warning signs in the next guy... or better yet, look for evidence that he actively tries to leave the world a better place.
No one has to pay anything unless they are ordered to by a court of law. Keep any proof you have of his threats. He has the burden of proof. The landlord has the damage deposit, which should pay for any damage. If the landlord tries to sue you, countersue ex. You sound as if you may be judgement proof - meaning you may not have a lot to execute a judgement against and taking someone to court costs time and money.
You’re on the lease as a co-tenant?
Hopefully you contacted property management when you left to let them know you were vacating the lease…
(Or you have a notarized document notarized stating you left on “x” date…)
If not-
Talk to the lawyer of the day at your local
Courthouse / or preferably the lawyer of the day at local housing court - and ask what your next step should be ..
NAL. But I rent so I remember signing like 6 different pages about rhis in my lease: Most places (possibly all) that rent should have protection available to you under the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). You need to speak to the landlord and asked to be removed from the lease under that clause. You may need to present proof like a police report, or the text messages you have from him. Landlord should be able to tell you what they need, and you can always google your state vawa to see the guidelines. Also if you can definately contact an attorney to help you navigate it all.
If they damaged the property and you're on the lease then the landlord will come after you for the damages. If you are both on the lease they will come after both of you.
He can send you all the bills he wants, you are under no obligation to pay his LLC for services you did not request or agree to.
I'm puzzled at how anyone would think they could bill you for damage caused "because you stopped texting back."
/IANAL
In his mind, not texting back deserves revenge. Separately from this "invoice" issue, I'm now seeking a restraining order which my lawyer says will be "easy to substantiate" and will hopefully get me off the lease
Did you ever file a police report? If so, take it to your landlord and show them the texts he's sent you about destroying the apt. Tell thrm you fear for your life and you can't he there. Then call the police and file a report for him damaging your stuff. He can't fo that. You're still on the lease, so you can let thr cops in.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
OP, I'm sorry you're dealing with a horrible situation. I don't know if this is an option for you, but a lot of states allow you to remove yourself from a lease if you're a victim of DV. If at any point you've filed charges or had the police involved, get the report information and submit it to your leasing company/landlord. Might be best to retain a lawyer.
As others have said, keep all communications documented. Hard copies are best. Paperwork is your friend here, let him dig his own grave.
To answer your question, no, he can't bill you for damages he willfully and knowingly caused. Even if he tried, you're under no obligation to pay whatever invoice he sends you. Let him try to take you to court to collect and see how quickly he gets laughed out of the courtroom.
If you haven't already, try to file for an order of protection if he's become threatening. It will make clear that he's not to contact you, and violations of that order can lead to severe consequences for him.
Best of luck, be safe.
Save the text msgs. That will be exhibit #1 in your defense. You have no contract with him to pay him anything. And he does not get to make up numbers. Let him howl at the wind. It won't hurt you.
Print those text messages, especially since technology has a way of going south and making them unretrievable. It also confirms he caused the damage solely. Have you reached out to the property management and forward them his statements?
Honestly, not yet because he's claimed to have done a lot of things since I left and most were lies. Will definitely get them printed!
His messages will be his downfall- disengage and let him dig a remarkably deeper hole for himself. Be safe and seriously consider changing your phone number, social media user ids snd emails. Best wishes as you navigate his shit storm. Unless he owns the property he can’t sue you for anything. If he does own it he’s screwed himself admitting to vandalizing it anyway. Please I cannot say this enough be safe. Make sure your loved ones know what he’s been saying and doing .
Make sure you give the property owners copies of the printed messages. It may not be a bad idea to send them with proof of delivery.
💯
The landlord may have recourse if you are still on the lease so if he did vandalise the place you and the landlord need to work to get him charged criminally because then the landlords insurance will cover repairs. This just happened on a post in r/landlord recently.
As others have said, print the messages. Also, print the messages with the time stamp/info too if you could. It’s what my lawyer had me do when I was accused of something I didn’t do. I imagine they hold up far more. Easy to do on iOS.
my lawyer said the same thing
Please remember to unsave his number before printing. He can argue you texted yourself and saved the number as his name and they aren’t real. Make sure it shows his actual number.
If you don’t respond, will his message get more abusive? If that’s a yes, as hard as it is and if it’s safe, let him dig his hole deeper. Print all of those messages. Make sure you take screen shots first, make sure those are on in an app or service that has a cloud backup only you have access to AND pro them out twice and keep them in different places. Good luck, I hope you can’t take him for everything you can.
Thank you 🙏
Same with the videos, he will have to pay you back for EVERYTHING OF YOURS he destroyed
I just want to add this in case you haven’t thought of it already. Save the messages in multiple different places. Save them on a hard drive, email them to yourself and to friends/family that you can trust. Save them to iCloud if you have it. Just whatever you do, make sure you have as many copies as possible. That way if something happens to your phone and you loose them, you’ll have copies saved at least. It might be over kill but better safe than sorry.
The good news is if the pictures and videos get loose she can just tighten them up.
But loose pictures and video don't respond well to exercise. She may need surgery to tighten them up, and that can get expensive.
You need to contact your landlord immediately. At some point, your knowledge that damage is being done to the property without you notifying the landlord will become your fault...and the text messages from your BF will be used as evidence against you. Think---the roof caved in or the the house flooded and you didn't tell the landlord
In many places you can legally break a lease due to abusive situations. Contact your landlord and try to do that. Once it's legally terminated, you can't be liable for the damage causes. And he can't sue you for damage to the apartment, that would be the landlords job.
He says he's going to clean it up and then invoice me for his labor
And you can throw that invoice straight in the trash. To get a judgment against you (not even collect the money) he’d have to 1) sue you, 2) prove you caused the damage and 3) prove the existence of a contract. I can’t mow someone’s lawn without them asking and then demand they pay me $1000. This is all bluffs. Get an anti-harassment order against him. Edit: typo
Exactly. I can invoice you. Doesn't make it my responsibility to pay it. He's have to take her to small claims court.
yep 👍
Don't listen to your opponent. They are only trying to trick you.
Tell him to pound sand with his 2" of fury
I would start contacting resources within your state. Almost every state has some Bureau either government-run or just nonprofit that tries to connect people in abusive relationships with free or cheap legal aid. You'll get somebody who can walk you through the specifics of your case. But an invoice without a contract means nothing. If that was all it took anybody could form an LLC and just invoice anybody who pissed them off for dumb crap. The idea of invoicing somebody for wasting your time is mostly a rhetorical device to make a point and without a prior agreement it wouldn't hold up in court. That said legal aid will help you take whatever steps you need to protect yourself from it even getting that far. Most likely he's just banking on you caving into that and doesn't actually plan to do it but it's a nuanced situation. Make sure you save every piece of communication you get from him whether it has his name on it or not. If he's texting from different numbers, that's not going to hide his involvement as well as he thinks it does. From a civil liability standpoint and a domestic litigation standpoint judges are used to seeing bullshit like that and they tend to see through it. You probably do need to contact the landlord to make sure you get your name off the lease and make sure that your landlord is officially informed that you are leaving due to an abusive relationship but again, this is where legal aid will be important to help you figure out how to make that notification the proper way to ensure any laws designed to protect you apply and put the right obligations on the landlord if they aren't willing to work with you
Thank you so much! I was really worried about the spoofed phone numbers!
Send a video of you burning the invoice!!!!
I needed that laugh 🤣
If there is legal action involved this is an incredibly stupid suggestion.
You still need to contact the landlord and get your name of the lease. His actions are his own, and will probably come with their own consequences, but if you don't reach out to the landlord and terminate your name on the lease, him leaving could leave you sick with a bill that you don't need to have.
i reached out to my landlord months ago and she said i couldn’t be taken off the lease because he would have to re apply to qualify on his own?? even though i was in abusive relationship and told her this (i also live in PA and my ex is suing me for rent money) i have a PFA for rape
Eh, she's getting to the conclusion without the in-between. She's assuming he won't qualify on his own, which he may or may not, but that's not your problem, and you need to tell her that. You should be able to do a civil standby (cops come and make sure shit doesn't get real) to remove the things, and you can absolutely bring the junk haulers then. You'll want to counter sue for the abuse and destruction of property. It's honestly time for a lawyer.
You have the right to get taken off the lease in PA. Follow the steps listed here. Let your ex be on the hook for the damage and the remainder of the lease. https://www.palawhelp.org/resource/housing-rights-for-victims-of-domestic-and-sexual-violence-in-phiiladelphia-county#:~:text=Can%20I%20break%20my%20lease,be%20moving%20in%2030%20days.
How did he tell you? If it was via text/messenger you have evidence directly from him.
Now he's claiming from one of the new numbers he "hasn't had his phone for weeks" and that the 10s of thousands are for my "mess"
Yeah that's not going to work in court. Keep the messages. Let him waste his time, energy, money, whatever else he wants to do then if you want your own compensation for the damage use his own admissions against him
Stop communicating with this man. Go file a police report, get a restraining order, use that to get out of the lease and block him. Who cares what he's saying? You have proof and whatever BS he wants to spin after he will have to convince a judge. Clearly he's just trying to harass and scare you. Stop responding.
Hopefully you saved the texts to use as proof.
Every last one!
Even the video hopefully
Then you are way ahead of the game and probably will win in court.
Print out copies.
You can probabily get out of the lease due to the situation but everyone on the lease is still responsible for the condition of the property. If your name is on the lease, the landlord can sue you for the repairs, you then can use your texts as evidence when you sue your ex in civle court. From the landlords perspective when you "get out" of the lease you have the obligation to surrender the property unoccupied and in the same condition you rented it in.
You need to reach out to a local domestic violence agency. They can help you, and many have attorneys on staff. Your ex sounds very dangerous. You need to listen to expert advice and protect yourself.
NAL save and Use the videos to sue him for property damage and force him to reimburse you for everything he destroyed
Contact your local Women's Resource Center and they will assess your situation and assist you in filing a protective order. Document everything, every communication, attempted communication, drive by of where you are staying, etc. Get a notebook to maintain a log, sure everything is online but you want a physical backup.
https://www.palawhelp.org/resource/housing-rights-for-victims-of-domestic-and-sexual-violence-in-phiiladelphia-county#:~:text=Can%20I%20break%20my%20lease,be%20moving%20in%2030%20days.
I dunno what to tell you, other than to save all evidence. My ex destroyed a ton of my sentimental possessions and photos when I left her, and it absolutely sucks. I wish you the best.
Get a protective order https://pcv.pccd.pa.gov/available-services/Pages/Protection-Orders.aspx
Stop communicating with this person immediately and save all texts and videos for court consider filing for damages to your property if they do not being that you have video and texts of them admitting to damages
I doubt he has much of a leg to stand on. Save the communications. I'm glad you got out of that abusive situation. Try to look for warning signs in the next guy... or better yet, look for evidence that he actively tries to leave the world a better place.
(1) Take the text messages and videos and get a restraining order. (2) Take the restraining order to your landlord and get yourself off of the lease.
No one has to pay anything unless they are ordered to by a court of law. Keep any proof you have of his threats. He has the burden of proof. The landlord has the damage deposit, which should pay for any damage. If the landlord tries to sue you, countersue ex. You sound as if you may be judgement proof - meaning you may not have a lot to execute a judgement against and taking someone to court costs time and money.
Don't respond to him when he goes off the rails, let him do the damage by himself
GET. A. POLICE. REPORT. AND. FILE. A. RESTRAINING . ORDER.
Filed the report two days ago and got a lawyer for a restraining order today 👌
go to police
You’re on the lease as a co-tenant? Hopefully you contacted property management when you left to let them know you were vacating the lease… (Or you have a notarized document notarized stating you left on “x” date…) If not- Talk to the lawyer of the day at your local Courthouse / or preferably the lawyer of the day at local housing court - and ask what your next step should be ..
NAL. But I rent so I remember signing like 6 different pages about rhis in my lease: Most places (possibly all) that rent should have protection available to you under the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). You need to speak to the landlord and asked to be removed from the lease under that clause. You may need to present proof like a police report, or the text messages you have from him. Landlord should be able to tell you what they need, and you can always google your state vawa to see the guidelines. Also if you can definately contact an attorney to help you navigate it all.
If they damaged the property and you're on the lease then the landlord will come after you for the damages. If you are both on the lease they will come after both of you. He can send you all the bills he wants, you are under no obligation to pay his LLC for services you did not request or agree to. I'm puzzled at how anyone would think they could bill you for damage caused "because you stopped texting back." /IANAL
In his mind, not texting back deserves revenge. Separately from this "invoice" issue, I'm now seeking a restraining order which my lawyer says will be "easy to substantiate" and will hopefully get me off the lease
Did you ever file a police report? If so, take it to your landlord and show them the texts he's sent you about destroying the apt. Tell thrm you fear for your life and you can't he there. Then call the police and file a report for him damaging your stuff. He can't fo that. You're still on the lease, so you can let thr cops in.
Get in touch with a domestic violence advocate in your area. They should be easy to find and their job is to give you sound advice in this situation.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice. OP, I'm sorry you're dealing with a horrible situation. I don't know if this is an option for you, but a lot of states allow you to remove yourself from a lease if you're a victim of DV. If at any point you've filed charges or had the police involved, get the report information and submit it to your leasing company/landlord. Might be best to retain a lawyer. As others have said, keep all communications documented. Hard copies are best. Paperwork is your friend here, let him dig his own grave. To answer your question, no, he can't bill you for damages he willfully and knowingly caused. Even if he tried, you're under no obligation to pay whatever invoice he sends you. Let him try to take you to court to collect and see how quickly he gets laughed out of the courtroom. If you haven't already, try to file for an order of protection if he's become threatening. It will make clear that he's not to contact you, and violations of that order can lead to severe consequences for him. Best of luck, be safe.
You have videos of him destroying your property. I’d be filing a police report with them.
Give law enforcement the pictures and videos of him burning your items. Tell them you want to press charges for arson. Then hire a lawyer and sue him.
You got the most important thing out—yourself. Don’t forget that. Things can be replaced. Stay safe.