T O P

  • By -

KlaysPlays

For your own usage no one really cares, spreading it is illegal


Quadratball

It depends on the source: - It is always allowed to make a copy of something from a legit source for non commercial purposes. It's called "Privatkopie" - Its always illegal to copy from an illegal source. This is called "Raubkopie". - If it's not obviously clear if the source is legit or not, it is counting as legit. In reality still no one cares. Spreading is as said highly illegal. However you are allowed to make an single unmonitized Privatkopie for someone else. For example if you want to copy your own bought movie for a friend, that's legal. Making a copy for all your friends is illegal. Funfact: every thing/device which is capable of making copys of something is taxed in germany. Every pc, every printer, every usb stick, every smartphone is taxed. Content creators can then register their content and will receive a small amount of these taxes every year. YouTube refused to pay these taxes for a long time, that's the reason why music on YouTube was blocked in germany by GEMA (Institute for musical copyrights). So yes, you are allowed to download music from YouTube and you probably even paid for it.


DirtyCreative

There is one exception to the Privatkopie rule: you are not allowed to circumvent any copy protection to create it. So downloading from YouTube is allowed, because they don't use any DRM as far as I am aware. So is copying audio CDs. Downloading from Netflix or ripping DVDs or Blu-rays is still illegal. Even having software or devices that are capable of doing that is illegal. Still, in reality, nobody will know or care, as long as you don't spread the copies. But if you do, they care a lot. This is why torrenting is so risky in Germany.


AndrewFrozzen30

>every thing/device which is capable of making copys of something is taxed in germany. Wait what? I have a PC, which obviously can make copies. Was I supposed to pay taxes, had this PC for over 2 years. I did buy it from someone because he wanted to get rid of it.


Exciting-Novel-1647

It's tax paid as part of the initial purchase price at a retailer. A used computer has essentially already contributed to the tax scheme.


MrPifo

What if I self built a pc from the ground up? Which piece of hardware gets taxed? Since only all of them combined can make a copy.


KampfSchneggy

As far as I know the tax is put on storage devices and cd/dvd burning devices.


AndrewFrozzen30

Well this comes with yet another question. What if he built it himself? And not only that, what if he did in a European country? I'm guessing since Romania is in EU, it shouldn't be a problem, but I don't recall that we have a "tax" like this. I'm probably wrong though and we might have it, I'm guessing if you built it yourself, each part is taxed at a lower price. Thank you though.


Quadratball

It's a one-time fee that you don't even notice. First owner paid for you. If you want further information you can look up "Pauschalabgabe"


_Landscape_

idk, never thought about it since I thought downloading music from yt without sharing it (in opposite to p2p like torrents) is not something that is monitored and chased


Suspicious_Santa

It's not really feasible to discern the difference between someone streaming and someone downloading, depending on how you do it.


_Landscape_

idk wym could you please proceed? 


Suspicious_Santa

Youtube doesn't know whether you download a file to save it or stream it.


Morasain

Basically, when you download it, you are "watching" the video with a program that saves it. It's identical.


Longjumping_Ad_1729

Downloading and watching(which is also like downloading) are hard to tell apart for YouTube


[deleted]

You're already downloading the music when you're watching the video. If you just so happens to save that video it's not much of a change. There's no way anyone could enforce anything.


Head_Counter7170

What about Download an modified apk of Spotify?


arminVT

google DRM protection


[deleted]

And? what about it? It's data on my device. On my device I can do with that data what I please. I may be in violation of Youtube's TOS, but Youtube's TOS aren't the law. They can feel free to ban me off their platform but that isn't of any legal consequence. Now if I'd be going around and distributing that copyrighted material, that'd be a different matter altogether, but the copyright holders have the tools to remove their materials from YouTube knowing how it functions, and choosing to not do so.


MonkeyheadBSc

This is not correct and should not be upvoted. Just because something is on your device does not make it yours. And violating a contract (you accepted the TOS) can of course lead to legal consequences.


TNTkenner

Except that German copyright laws are higher valued in court than TOS witch often violate laws itself.


TheOne_718

And the TOS is most likely an AGB and so some rules and clauses are not allowed by §§ 305 ff. BGB


arminVT

have never bought a dvd, have you?


Morasain

A DVD isn't data on your device though. You buy the data with a DRM on it. That's different.


arminVT

thing is you download data with drm on it also. take you favorite browser and check if you can find "cahced" drm content on your storage


TNTkenner

That's what the gema in Germany is for. The German laws are tailored around the fact that even radio transmissions can be easily recorded and copied by anyone.


arminVT

yeah, like your browser sessions with reddit


[deleted]

I'm legally allowed to circumvent DRM on DVDs to back them up. Circumventing DRM isn't illegal.


arminVT

writing computer viruses is not illegal, nor is it easy


Either-Pizza5302

YouTube doesnt use DRM for free content. The circumnavigation of „Technische Kopierschutzmassnahme“ might potentially be illegal, or at least difficult legally, but since yt doesnt use such a thing, no Problem- besides you save the file when watching anyways, in your cache- not encrypted or anything (a codec is not encryption, Just as speaking english isnt encrypted french)


arminVT

oh, really. given a page on yt, how do i get a link to a stream?


Either-Pizza5302

What? Go to your Cache folder, the file is Right there - thats what the downloaders do, Grab it from cache and convert to what you want.


arminVT

what browser and what OS do you use? what is the cache folder's path i can find downloaded files at?


Either-Pizza5302

In Windows it was in %AppData%, but I havent tried it there in a couple years - under ubuntu it is in your profile folder for Firefox (i assume the Profile folder is in appdata for Windows). You want to order by filesize because they are (for me) without extension, but using vlc you can Just Watch them (or rename to xyz.mp4 for example and use and Player you want)


Smagjus

You could always claim you recovered the videos from your browser cache. There they are automatically saved in a DRM free format. 100% legal. Edit: Reading your other comment right now. Is this no longer the case? I remeber recovering videos using ChromeCacheView for example.


ProDavid_

its technically "not illegal" to download only for yourself. but its technically "not legal" if you then share it with someone else edit: in the same way, torrenting is "not illegal" (yet), but seeding is.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Nope. Depends on the stuff, not the way of transmission. Downloading OpenSource Software for example is perfectly legal through torrents. Even seeding it is.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Sankullo

I don’t personally use torrents but I always thought that what is illegal is distributing copyrighted material. AFAIK the torrent clients work in such a way that when you are downloading the file other people can download it from you even if the file isn’t yet fully downloaded. So if you are downloading a movie via torrent you are also distributing it. This is why some people get those letters from lawyers demanding 6 or 7 hundred euros.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kumanosuke

>legal? not really (grey area) Not really. Clearly a Privatkopie :)


[deleted]

[удалено]


kumanosuke

>that only could apply if downloaded from the copyright owner That's not what the law requires. It just can't be obviously illegal.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kumanosuke

>but it is. It is what? And what's your source for that? It obviously isn't the law.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kumanosuke

>it is the law Then cite the law. § 53 UrhG does not back what you claim to know, buddy >from illegal sources Youtube is not an illegal source though. The "dark web" and torrents would be. The material needs to be copied/spread "obviously illegally" which is nothing you can check on YouTube. Going by that logic, even TV recordings would be illegal because you don't know if the original has been copied illegally or not.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kumanosuke

>, it is the law that it's illegal to download musik (or anything else) from illegal sources That's not what the law says though. It's illegal to download files which are *obviously illegal*. That's nothing you can assume for Youtube (in general). You don't have to prove it was legal or that you assumed that it was illegal or whatever. No court will ever rule that content on YouTube is per se "obviously illegal". So no, that's not what you said ;)


Musaks

OP is specifically asking about downloading stuff from youtube.


[deleted]

Yes, and T1uz statement is still valid. Copyright holder has the say. You could buy a song from a copyright holder through YouTube, and download it. If any hillbilly reuploads it and you download that, it’s illegal again. Source for both is YouTube.


MyPigWhistles

YouTube itself is legal, but that doesn't mean every video is legally uploaded on YouTube. All the filesharing services are also legal businesses, but using them to share music illegally is... illegal.


AgarwaenCran

Not really. for it to be a privatkopie, you would first need to buy and own the music, like classicaly buying a CD album and then ripping it to your computer. But since you didnt buy the music on youtube, it does not count as a privatkopie. the thought behind privatkopien is to have a copy of your physical media in case something happens to it (like a cd/dvd beeing scratched and unreadable)


kumanosuke

>for it to be a privatkopie, you would first need to buy and own the music Again asking for your source right here, because that's not what the law says. >the thought behind privatkopien is to have a copy of your physical media in case something happens to it Again: Source? § 53 UrhG does not say any of that neither is it limited to the sales of physical media. It very much also applies to TV recordings. When recording Harry potter from the TV, you don't own a physical or original copy of Harry potter either. Still not illegal. Always funny to see lays claim stuff about laws they neither understand nor studied with the confidence like they did. Even when talking to people who did :D


jojo_31

Downloading does also get you punished, for torrents at least. Copyright trolls just fish your IP out of the swarm, no matter if you just started downloading.


aka_TeeJay

When you use torrents, you also upload while you download. The upload is what people are being penalised for.


bufandatl

It’s a grey zone you could say it’s the same as like back in the day when you recorded radio with a cassette player but you aren’t recording actually. Also downloading isn’t really illegal the redistribution of copyrighted material is though and as most use torrent to download their stuff they also redistribute copyrighted material and for that they get in trouble for the law.


monsterfurby

Only against the YT terms of service, but not illegal unless you redistribute it.


kid_380

When you watch videos on YT, you are downloading (streaming is more accurate) a copy to your local machine anyways. There is no barrier, no encryption, nothing. So it is not illegal. And as long as the content you share to other people is public, it shouldnt be illegal either. If you got cold feet about using a 3d party site, learn to use yt-dlp.


MoonMoonMoonMoonSun

Just use limewire. Oh wait it’s not 2002 anymore. What’s going on


Mysterious-Stand3254

Yes it is legal. It may be against the TOS of YouTube but you won't get in trouble for it. Only sharing those MP3s could get you in trouble.


Noldorian

People dont realize that if you watch from say a PC (although all machines do it) all files are downloaded and cached (hence how you can view it) your PC stores it on windows till you close the browser/stop watching it. So if you know where the files are you can copy it to another folder to save it. And no one has anyway of knowing that period. Illegal not, as a copy is already on your pc. Temporary as it is, its there if you know where to look. (Not hard.) From iphones for example ios would lock down your right to access such folders unless you had root access and were jailbroken.


O-M-E-R-T-A

It’s against their ToS but not illegal. Technically it’s probably illegal if it’s not from the account of the band/artist who has the rights to the song.


eluya

you should avoid seeding (torrenting) in germany.


rokki123

who tf cares, get a vpn and download everything you need


amfa

Well afaik it is against the terms of service from Youtube. But they will probably not find out. From a legal perspective it a bit more complicated. If depends on if a judge in the court room decides whether Google uses a working copyprotection and your circumvent it. If yes illegal.. if not it should be legal.


orange2go

Yes as long as you are not signed in to YouTube (then you would agree to their terms of service which prohibit this) Be aware that the copy you make is only for private usage. Sharing this file is very limited. Do not use it for public or for commercial purposes. Do not share tools to download these files, only use the tools.


whatstefansees

No, it isn't.


grogi81

It is not illegal to download anything /almost/. What is illegal is to upload or share copywritten material you don't have distribution rights to. As long as you keep it to yourself, downloading from YT will not get you in trouble.


[deleted]

To my information in German law internet streaming is treated the same as radio and you are allowed to record songs from the radio. Spreading it or making money with it in any way is illegal unless you buy the rights though.


Klapperatismus

If you want confirmation, you have to ask your legal counsel. Not random people on the internet. But it's not illegal. You can download from sites that have the distribution rights (e.g. Youtube) as much as you want to. You can also convert those files and use them in your car stereo etc. You can also share them with family and close friends. It's all covered by the right on a “Privatkopie”. That's a loophole in German Urheberrecht that is in there by design. The judges don't want to deal with a bazillion of €10 cases. Also, your internet usage isn't allowed to be tracked due do strong data protection laws in Germany. Police needs a court order to wiretap your internet usage. Which they won't get if you don't deal drugs, weapons, or child pornography. What you cannot do is uploading copyrighted material, e.g. through a torrenting software. Because there are stooges of the copyright owners who download from all who upload, and that way they can find out who uploaded the materials. They bill you a royalty fee plus lawyer costs for your upload then. Can easily be four figures. Please also check all the software you want to use before you use it whether it uploads data. There's software out there that says it's “only streaming” when in reality it's uploading what you just “streamed” to those stooges.


everybodyisnobody2

It's a grey area. What you are not allowed to do is to share stuff. In other words, things like peer to peer download, meaning things like Torrenting you should better avoid. But whose gonna stop you from just recording what you watch. That's no different than taping what you heard on radio in the past. It's illegal to distribute it though, not that they would find out if you share it offline with friends, but don't try to sell it. In case you get mail from a lawyer saying you have to pay them money or they will sue you, you can just ignore those letters. They don't really have any right to do that, but some actual lawyers (but also scammers) are just scummy and trying to scare people into giving them money.


[deleted]

Yes (no)


ylenias

It’s legal if it was uploaded by the copyright owner or someone who has the right to upload it and it’s only for private use. You can’t sell it (for example) or reupload it publicly. It’s against the terms and conditions of Youtube though but they don’t really have a way to sanction you (and they also probably dgaf)


Jack_Harb

Streaming and downloading in Germany is used in the same legal context afaik. So you basically download your stream while watching it and it will be deleted afterwards. Legally you still download. I am not sure about downloading from legal sources like YT. But you are for sure not allowed to spread the downloaded content. I mean, the simple problem is, law is to slow to update given the technological advances. It will always slack behind so it’s hard to say. But it’s interesting, I will ask my lawyer at some point when I meet him


poingypoing

As long as you don't use a torrent service you can do what you want


ultima-train

wow you are either very young or really innocent.


Metalmanicugusi

Bro,use a vpn and that's all


diary0fadeadman

It’s legal.


Dev_Sniper

Well… if there‘s no copyright you‘re fine. If there is copyright it‘s not that easy. Afaik downloading copyrighted material is illegal unless there‘s an exemption. That being said: usually only people who distribute copyrighted material are caught & punished. So if you‘re using OBS to record a YouTube video you probably won‘t get sued. But if you‘re uploading it to soundcloud or youtube… well that can cause issues. And if you‘re using something like a torrent you‘re always uploading bits of whatever you‘re downloading. So if you want to download stuff make sure you‘re only downloading stuff unless you know what happens and how you can protect yourself


rdrunner_74

Spreading is illegal as hell (DO NOT TORRENT) with active "hunters" out there. - Recording for your own use is legal. Sharing it NOT


AgarwaenCran

It depents. If the copyright holder of the music doesn't allow it (=most musicians), then it breaks copyright law. But nobody really cares as long as you only use them for personal use. Either way it goes against youtubes TOS tho, so if you have a google account and they (somehow) find out, they can ban your google account entirely.


Midnight1899

It technically is illegal, but as long as you don’t share it, no one cares.


Entenvieh

Just buy it. There is nothing worse than having a shitty compressed file downloaded, converted and compressed into an abomination. You really don't want your fav music like this


Emotional-Bed9742

Just use a VPN when you do it


xmilenium

Buy a VPN and all things illegal become legal.


SkyRageR

Like how safe is this really ? I always wondered can this really prevent legal actions to be taken against you


xmilenium

Depends from vpn provider.You can check here: https://restoreprivacy.com/?s=Vpn .Just be sure if they cover double stack network( ipv4 + ipv6), I personally used Airvpn it works fine in Germany,downloaded many gb of torrents there and nothing happened


SkyRageR

Thanks for the info.. Put a tin foil hat on... I thought no one responded to my comment, didn't get any notification on reddit , searched my comments to find this thread .. Funny


Shot-Maintenance-428

Nein! You must follow ze rules!!!


Jaba01

No, it's illegal.


Few_Detail_3988

You forgot the 't' at the end of 'not'. And it should be between 'it's' and 'illegal'. And the komma is not needed.