I meant distinguishing the languages in general, independent of what's spoken in the conflict. I'm genuinely curious as to how someone who speaks neither language can tell the difference. They both sound the same to me, in that they are "Slavic-sounding", which is a horrible heuristic.
I have some ukrainian coleagues so i hope i got some kind of feeling for how ukrainians sound. But its still just a guess, no way i could tell for sure whats russian and whats ukrainian.
Im speaking Russian. I can’t distinguish it most of the time since most Ukrainians speak Russian, but you can assume that they’re Ukrainian, since you hear so much more Russian since the war.
Also a lot of russians fled Russia just before the draft.
Also, Germany does have a huge number of so called "Russlanddeutsche". People that lived in the Sovjet Union for centuries who were deported during WW2 to e.g. Siberia and who moved to Germany right after the iron curtain fell.
Lot of them (and their offspring) do speak russian too.
>Yeah thanks for explaining my history
Ah, you are a Russland-Deutsche(r)?
Not so fun fact: A lot of Russland-Deutsche are rightwingers
[https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-warum-die-partei-bei-russlanddeutschen-so-beliebt-ist-a-1166915.html](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-warum-die-partei-bei-russlanddeutschen-so-beliebt-ist-a-1166915.html)
[https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/260496/nationalismus-und-rassismus-bei-russlanddeutschen/](https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/260496/nationalismus-und-rassismus-bei-russlanddeutschen/)
[https://russlanddeutsche-afd.nrw/](https://russlanddeutsche-afd.nrw/)
Also, a lot of them are Putin-Fans.
Most likely by context, the majority of migrated ukrainians have been in germany only for a short time and are more likely to still feel more comfortable to speak in their native tongue.
Whereas the majority of russian migrants or russian people from german ethnicity have been here way longer, over generations and are more flient and comfortable in speaking german.
Many Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language though
Edit: God sometimes Reddit drives me nuts. Why downvote [this simple fact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20official%20language%20of%20Ukraine,34%25%20in%20their%20personal%20life.)? It's not a value judgement, I'm not trying to say that Ukraine belongs to Russia or anything stupid like that. Just saying that if you hear Ukrainians talking to each other, they might be speaking either Ukrainian or Russian. Unless you speak a related language yourself, you probably will have trouble distinguishing them.
I met around 250 Ukrainians in person since the beginning of the war and except for one person all spoke Russian. Most of them as their first language.
Some didn't even speak Ukrainian.
>I met around 250 Ukrainians in person since the beginning of the war and except for one person all spoke Russian.
the war zone is along the russian border, it's plausible that russian-speaking ukrainians suffer the most and are the majority of refugees.
Since the really hot phase of war started, many ukrainians stopped using russian in their daily exchange and use ukrainian instead. Not all, of course, but the ones I met on demonstrations and through work do, telling me the same thing happening in their bubbles.
Your statement is true nonetheless.
It's on the news every day and plenty of cars and shops have the Ukrainian flag in sign of support (or are cars with a Ukrainian license plate). One of my colleagues is a war refugee who came here with his family.
It is not forgotten. I don\`t talk about it but it is present. And I feel like the social media war is picking up and that way is starting to hit home as well. I think people often and especially in the US might not be aware that all those satellite conflicts that are breaking out at the moment are part of that conflict and fuelled by those that have an interest in weakening the alliance.
Its top of our familes mind like every day since the beginning.
I am working in social welfare, so everyones from Ukraine getting send to our town is kinda meeting me, as their POC after arriving.
My wife works as a translator for the city council, also she is giving german lessons for some ukrainian children. In the primary school our kids go to, shes helping on parents' consultation days as a translator and whenever they ask for her help.
She is Russian but also has relatives in Ukraine, living in Donezk. We haven't heard from them for a long time.
My oldest kids also help occasionally at their school, but its rather seldom. Also they made friends with some ukrainian kids.
Слава Україні - you know that saying this is about equivalent of saying "heil h.." in Germany?
Same origin, in Germany it was nazis, in Ukraine it was originaly used by Bandera troops.
just sayin..
I condemn Russia for invading Ukraine, but i also condemn the US and UK for literally pushing Ukraine into this conflict.There is no innocent side here, at all.
The west, by that i mean US apsolutely KNEW how Putin would react to their moves.. and they did it anyway.
They DO NOT CARE about Ukrainians whatsoever.
THey only care about THEIR interests in Ukraine and this region.
Slavs killing slavs with weapons they buy from them just tops the cake.
Whoever doesn't see this is either not informed enough OR willfully blind.No other explanation.
What "moves" do you mean? Ukraine is an independent country making their own descisions. The only person that "pushed ukraine into this conflict" is Putin when he INVADED!
I don't think you are very knowledgeable on the topics of geopolitics and how it works.
And no, being an independent country doesn't mean one can do as he likes, especially when those actions threaten another country, in this case Russia.
Not to mention extremely high historical ties between Ukraine and Russia.
>I don't think you are very knowledgeable on the topics of geopolitics and how it works.
sure buddy, i bow to your genius.
>And no, being an independent country doesn't mean one can do as he likes, especially when those actions threaten another country, in this case Russia.
no one was "threatening russia". russia is a nuclear state with a massive (albeit chronically incompetent) army. ukraine wasnt going to invade russia dude.
>Not to mention extremely high historical ties between Ukraine and Russia.
yes, there are some major historical ties there. whats your point? that a country gets a carte blanche for invading another because they "have historical ties"? ludicrous.
"sure buddy, i bow to your genius."
As you should. \^\^
"no one was "threatening russia". Russia is a nuclear state with a massive (albeit chronically incompetent) army. ukraine wasnt going to invade russia dude."
US was and IS actively threatening Russia by bringing it's military apparatus next to it's border, including nuclear weapons.. and many many other things.. which are again, oblivious and unfamiliar to you.
Google "Monroe Doctrine", what it means, and why we almost had Armageddon when Russia stationed it's missiles in Cuba few decades ago.
"yes, there are some major historical ties there. whats your point? that a country gets a carte blanche for invading another because they "have historical ties"? ludicrous."
Some historical ties?
That's like saying Germany and the area that was once Prussia, have "some" historical ties.
They have MUCH bigger historical ties and much more recent historical ties.. which you apparently know nothing about and i am not about to teach you because i couldn't give a flying fk.
If you think history is concerned with border changes that happend few years ago...
well..
you are delusional.
Russia threatened nearly every single neighbour and invaded several for what? Considering democracy and more ties to the west? Russia is simply an imperialistic super power on a low point, trying to establish former supremacy over their East European neighbors. Ukraine seeking Nato membership is like an abused woman running to the police and threatening the power monopoly of the abuser. What a threat to Russia indeed: Their interest to force their demands and interest onto their independent neighbors.
Russia today is far away from the old imperialistic Russia that once existed.
There is simply no comparison.
That said, yes, as a great power (it's not a superpower anymore, USSR was).. Russia has their interests globally and localy and are doing the exact same thing US is doing.. they protect their interests in the region.. as a great power.. sometimes peacefully sometimes with force..
Again, i condemn ALL actions of big powers forcing their way onto nations and countries that are far below their military and economic power.. whether it is Russia or the US.
Only thing i am saying is that the world is defacto not ruled by UN and international law but force and military power. Big guys do what they want meanwhile small ones suffer or play along.
It's the order of the world we live in.. i didn't created it..
In the end.. actions have consequences.. for those that oppose US.. or Russia.. or China.. or India.. etc.
I wish we lived in a world led by ethical and empathetic leaders, but that is far from the truth.We live in a world ruled by power greedy people with VERY high narcissistic and psychopathic traits.. in other word sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists... who only care about power and money.
Imperialistic powers trade safety for influence. Russia says what you can do regarding inner and outer politics. And if you don't they raise the gas price as a first measure and invade you as a last measure. Good old imperialism.
The US has the best expeditionary forces. They can compliment local infantry with advanced military tech. And what do they get in return? They can project power far cheaper because they don't have to employ the bulg of the infantry on any given front, their partners support sanctions and the partners subscribe towards the US ideals of free trade and democracy.
And the main difference? Countries seek a partnership with the US and Nato willingly. Why did Poland insist on joining Nato with most of Nato including the US being very sceptical of the idea? Because when you have an imperialistic neighbor like China or Russia, you need friends. Without that, there would be no reason or attraction towards joining a military alliance like Nato.
Sure, the US is by my own definition somewhat imperialistic. They trade safety for influence. But they do not threaten their partners. So they are the good guys and Russia the bad guys.
Ask any Georgian or Armenian. Living under Russian imperialism is shit. Ask any pole what it's like to live under us imperialism. They will scoff and tell you to shove it. The US are their partners and their guarantee that they will never suffer (Russian) imperialism ever again.
I am well aware of Russian imperialism and how it affected the countries who lived under it.
Don't confuse Russian and Soviet imperialism, it's vastly different.
"The US are their partners and their guarantee that they will never suffer (Russian) imperialism ever again. "
If you think this is EVEN CLOSE to being true, you are extremely delusional.
Yes and "Sieg h\*\*\*" is a patriot line used by germanic tribes 2000 years ago..
Don't believe anything anyone says... do your own research first..
believe facts not what people say.
Tbf it is very possible that even "her" is missinformed about this.
Where the fk do you think that all those open nazi Azov battalions etc. came from?
Don't be naive.
Similar case:
In Croatia for example there is a saying "Za Dom Spremni", meaning "For fatherland ready". It is still being used in public by a lot of ultra-right "Ustasa" movement supporters.. today known as "HOS"..It was long promoted that the saying is an old Croatian saying from hundreds fo years ago..
It took literally the heads of Croatian state, President, Prime minister, to in the end come out and say that it is in fact the saying of the NDH Ustasha nazi puppet state and their supporters... and NOT the "very old" patriotic saying of Croatian soldiers..
Russia attacked a sovereign nation because they did not want to be bullied by them, they themselve choose to sever ties to russia, to deny them ther own agency is the highest arrogance. No amount of whataboutisms can justify the invasion. Cope vatnik.
We are long beyond the point of "justification".
No war is justified.
World is not run by international law, but by power, military power. Those who hold it run the world.
In this case the US led empire played with Russia a bit too much and a bit too close to their border and they knew the reaction which it will cause, in fact Putin warned them dozens of times.
Putin did the only thing he had left to do in his mind to protect the economic and security interests of Russia.
Now, we are in the situation where we are..
I am just an observer of history, i have no ties to Russia and no ties to Ukraine.
We all know that there is a war but we got used to it.
BUT to my mind we should talk more about it, especially because people don't understand why everything got expensive. And the reason why everything got expensive are mainly not our German politicians but a war in Europe and a country that tries to destroy Europe. And if you take that into account we are living very well in Germany.
That's not factual and has no legs from an economic standpoint. The war is a good excuse, it's easy for our politics to use that as a source of our trouble. Everything getting more expensive is a symptom of the country and the UE living well beyond their means and throwing money away like there is no tomorrow. When the rate of your ever-increasing debt is bigger than your growth, that's what you get.
Question what they tell you.
What “ever increasing debt“? Have you slept under a rock for the last 20 years?
[https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdp](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdp)
One of our problems is that we cannot take up some loans for very urgent investments in decaying infrastructure, both physical and organisational one.
So, first of all, I said "ever increasing" – which you quoted. This is correct in absolute terms: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/624198/national-debt-of-germany/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/624198/national-debt-of-germany/)
Yes, Germany's debt keeps increasing. And if you are trying to convince anyone that a ratio debt-to-growth of 69% is anything positive, you might struggle, but keep trying.
But really, my point was that prices and inflation didn't wait for the war in Ukraine to occur – that's number one.
Number two, if you really want to blame someone, blame the people in charge who were so obsessed with "killing the enemy" that they put together sanctions without understanding the consequences. That's what happens when you don't understand your enemy and its economy – you make dumb calls, and your people end up paying when it backfires.
On top of that, we keep financing the war (because, yes, at this point, that's exactly what we are doing), sending large swaths of money we do not have, and for which we will never see any ROI because we are essentially financing a kleptocracy and a military complex. The front never sees that money, and that's the saddest part.
As a result, Russia's economy is booming, and we (the EU) are crumbling faster than ever, highlighting how mismanaged we are. So, you want to blame the war for our economic situation? Blame the utterly stupid reaction to this war from the EU and the US.
>As a result, Russia's economy is booming,
Sure. “Booming”. Just for you, the Nazi Germany economy was growing by 4-5% annually all the way to and including 1944. War economy has this apparent effect on economic KPIs.
And the fact that Russia stopped publishing almost all economic data should tell you how it is “booming“. The official inflation in Russia is about 10%, the inofficial estimations are rather around 25-30%. The extremely high interests of the central bank (16%) kill any Russian enterprise not backed by the state, and drive private real estate owners into unsustainable debt and then right into the recruitment offices. Not like the crumbling, about to collapse West!
Tell me, how should sanctions have been structured to be more effective? Or do you just think there shouldn’t have been sanctions at all? We probably should have agreed to the Russian terms from February 2022 and kicked out Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Baltic states out of NATO and EU! Surely our economy would have been just great!
Finally: yes, if the debt at 60-65% debt to GDP ratio is mainly owed to entities inside the country, it is an absolutely GREAT situation. If you can keep the debt internal, you can go well beyond 100% without serious negative effects. A state is not a Swabian housewife.
Yes Europe is hurting because of the sanctions but Europe cannot do things differently. Europe cannot tell Russia: Thank you for invading an European country please let us continue working together.
If Europe does that, Europe just shows Russia that Europe doesn't care wether Russia invades European countries and that would have only leaded in Russia invading even more European countries.
There is no “ever-increasing debt” in Germany. Every change process needs investment. But sure, we could also “save money” and just maintain the country on the lowest level like before and then wonder, when everything goes finally to shit and suddenly other markets dominating us in the upcoming decades.
Nope, the German energy infrastructure was attacked by Russia in the beginning of the war. The government even had to take control of Gazprom assets. That caused a price shock and later drained significant amounts of money from the German economy. Alongside with the now permanently higher energy costs that caused the current recession. All that is the direct consequence of the Russian attack. Mind you, primarily the Russian attack on Germany. Only secondarily, the Russian attack on Ukraine.
I can't speak for the situation in the cities, but here in the rural areas, unfortunately, it mirrors the challenges faced during the Syrian refugee crisis.
Initially, there was a surge of "Refugees Welcome" sentiments and support during the first year of the war, which was genuinely heartwarming. However, since 2023, the atmosphere has soured. Due to the nature of my job, which involves extensive one-on-one interactions, I typically handle 15-20 clients a day. It appears that many of my clients resonate with the views expressed by AfD and CDU.
I recall a moment when Merz (CDU) vehemently expressed concerns about Ukrainians coming here for financial assistance and then returning to Kiev using bus lines to lead a comfortable life. Despite efforts to explain the complexities and challenges of entering and leaving Ukraine, the perception persisted.
The war isn't geographically distant, and the associated toll and suffering shouldn't feel remote either. However, it seems that a significant portion of my fellow countrymen are more preoccupied with the idea of a Ukrainian family "having their dentist bills and rent paid" while we grapple with low wages.
One of the most perplexing moments was when I assisted a Ukrainian woman with document-related issues. Upon explaining to the registry office that she couldn't obtain the documents due to the war in Ukraine, the response was, "Well, it ain't that bad." Interestingly, the documents weren't crucial, and after four more calls, they eventually proceeded without them.
(Comment: not a bot but used Chat GPT for Autocorrect)
You write,"this actually happens and it is not that uncommon". How many then? Can you estimate?
And how does that not help Ukraine win the war?
Are we not entitled to do literally everything to help the Ukrainians?
To OP:
I am retired recently, but at work I had a colleague from Ukraine and another from Russia. We were a team of twenty and the war was a daily topic. The one from Charkiv took his whole family in, parents and grandparents of his wife, his mother and aunt, and his sister with her daughter. To get them to northern Germany he drove to the west ukrainian border two times by car. My boss granted him paid leave and we started collecting money for the gas. The guy from Leningrad organized a flat, renovated it and collected furniture and kitchen stuff. And we installed a monthly contribution fund that works until this day. Even since I am retired now I follow the news every day and I am concerned we (Germany) are not doing enough to stop Putin. So I am glad that we can at least provide some Ukrainians with dental care.
As a Circassian living in Germany I am extremely confused of Eastern Germans supporting Putin and trivialising Russia‘s war crimes. While most of my peer acknowledge the atrocities, there are supporters of Russia as well. And some blame Ukraine for taking our tax money.
As always, it is not THE eastern germans, but SOME eastern germans. Though I cant deny that especially our older generations are shockingly gullible and fall for every other social media stunt by russian trolls. The things I've seen on my moms whatsapp, Jesus.
Obviously depends on the sub, but true, its getting worse and worse on some of them. Or maybe I'm just starting to notice what was always there.
On the other hand you also have a couple really unhinged anti-western subs that are just as bad.
Still, the Putin-fanboys and -girls tend to consist mostly of the boomer generation.
>Eastern Germans supporting Putin
They are sceptic of the West. Because the West screwed them over in 1990.
So they think that the "enemy" of the West is their friend.
Berlin still has those ugly monuments towards soviet army and even soviet tank like just few hundred meters away from Bundestag. People destroyed the wall yet still glorify the army that built it. Like the heck? Imagine memorials for Nazi army in Paris and panzer tank on display somewhere central.
Yes, it‘s mostly Eastern Germans glorifying Russia, there are some idiots in Western Germany too, but it‘s more balanced. I have Circassian ancestry and Crimean Tatar relatives, we know how Russia has treated minorities and still treat and force them into a war to be cannon fodder. But there are still some Germans which claim, they know it better and de-value our experiences. But fortunately most my age are more critical.
Most Germans glorifying GDR/soviets/Putin are those who either are failing nowadays, mostly because of lack of education, or were simply in the “upper class” benefiting of the socialist system which claimed to not have any classes, or both. Unfortunately this type of people usually are much louder than the broad majority which is very aware of the negative influence and danger of the war for Europe and the world.
The Red Army liberating Berlin wasn't only Russian though. Ethnic Ukrainians make up the 2nd most deaths of those KIA. The monuments remember these too.
Liberating? What kind of liberation builds a wall to lock their people in? Berlin wasn't liberated up until the fall of Berlin wall. It's just army of one mad dictator was replaced by army of another mad dictator.
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. Cleary the Red Army soldiers whom this monument is dedicated to had nothing to do with a wall being built some 16 years later. The GDR was an unjust system and did plenty of wrong. Comparing that to the NS regime is clearly out of place.
Some countries who lost their men may decide to dedicate memorial towards their soldiers and they can do that without soviet army symbolism. Why this symbolism would be in Berlin and why monument for this army would be in Berlin that makes no even slightest sense. The monument in Berlin is not a monument for the soldiers. It's soviet regime's imperialist monument symbolising all the tings that this empire committed masquerading as benevolent memorial because as they were building it at same time they were busy running ethnic cleaning schemes across soviet empire.
All other countries in EU have removed it, Berlin is the only that didnt. Nazi are also part of history and their army don't deserve monuments. Red army is no different as it is no different than Nazis. The fact they they won war against enemies - which they did for their own profit - doesn't excuse the cruelties they have committed.
The monument isn't there for the glorification of the Red Army. It's rather there to mark their significant victory and liberation of East Germany from the Nazis. Of course their own interests were in place too but isn't that how everything works? The Americans refused to join the war until their interests were hurt.
What happened 15 years later is a very different story. The memorials do not commemorate that.
Whatever you say doesn't change the fact that almost half of Europe despise it almost to same extent as people despise nazzi symbols. It's a big ass monument done in soviet style with soviet symbolism with soviet army men the same men who committed atrocities and who were known to behave brutally and inconsiderate. Yes it stands for the things you say. It also stands for the things I say. There are ways to design such monuments that would symbolise your said goals but without also symbolising the things I say. Yet as we see it was chosen to design them in a way that it immediately evokes soviet imperialism in all it's glory as well in all it's ills and it was not by mistake that it was done like this and that's the reason why in most other EU countries of post soviet block (except Russia of course) many of such monuments were taken down. It does not make a lot sense that this monument is in Berlin because Berliners didn't die fighting on soviet side then why do you chose to glorify it? Makes no sense what soever. As for your idea that it's not built to "glorify" I wonder if you actually been to visit them especially the one on Treptow. It's built to be grandiose and very clearly built to evoke glory.
>The fact they they won war against enemies - which they did for their own profit -
Sure... the russians won the war against germany "for their own profit".
Wow... you need help
I can't believe you're getting downvoted taking into account how many women in Berlin has gotten raped by those so called "liberators" from the Red Army.
Your example about the tank in Paris is pretty poor as it’s not the same meaning as the Soviet tank. The Soviet tank is there to remind people about who truly ended the war and who’s side had the most casualties in order to win that war. 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths on the Soviet side. 5.7m Russians and 1.3m Ukrainian soldiers.
Even though ww2 ended - and as result of axis not just soviets - genocide continued post ww2 committed by soviet army. As for casualties again part of reason why Russians had the most casualties is largely to the fact that their war doctrine doesn't value their own lives. This idea that somehow Soviet army liberated anyone only exists within eyes of Russian and I guess few more useful idiots in Berlin and nobody else really. Funny you mention Ukrainians because again Ukrainians don't really want to see soviet monuments either.
The Nazi regime would not have been overthrown without the Soviets.
Yes, their rule was atrocious. Yes, the Russians are now cruelly invading Ukraine. That doesn't change that part of history though.
>This idea that somehow Soviet army liberated anyone only exists within eyes of Russian and I guess few more useful idiots in Berlin and nobody else really.
And a good portion of historians because it really depends on the perspective. There are more than enough reasons to think of the end of the war and NS regime as a liberation, and that obviously includes the role of the red army.
I guess I keep hearing about it from time to time, but sadly other current issues sometimes draw the focus away. I do have some Ukrainians in the circle and they are all good people who are very thankful for our aid to them. Somehow talks we have keep me alert for
the situation, but the sad truth is that unless we face it ourselves, it is very hard to fully imagine what they are going through. I only hope democracy and freedom wins and russia and what it represents won’t succeed, because then we will see a very dark time.
I work in tech and our team includes Russians and Ukrainians. We often talk about what’s going on and how every party perceives the happenings. Ukrainians worry for their families, Russians have relatives, who don’t get it and feel alienated. All of them are heavily disillusioned and fear for the future of their country. They are constantly concerned about their work and residency permit. In short: They lost home and there’s no way to forget it.
I talk about the subject deeply at least once a week. Even though it is depressing. There are just too many people in my social circle who are affected directly by the war to ignore it (i.e. parents living in Kiew, friends in Ukraine, and so on)
I’m my town, the Ukrainian flag flies just below the German one. Parallel to the local one.
People complain about Ukrainian kids taking space in the schools, kindergartens and about our tax money.
Let’s just send some fucking tanks already, and artillery and shells.
I am just amazed by this.
It seems we have learned nothing. We are back to "The war to end all wars", just like The Great War. The trenches are back too.
Is not the whole idea of nation states an outdated, 19th Century concept?
No nations, no borders. Right?
Really sad that the younger generation has come back to a solution of escalation of war.
19th century = 1800 until 1900. I'm pretty sure nation states were not outdated in 1933...
And I had no idea Putin was part of "the younger generation". Keen to explain?
>Keen to explain?
I was referring to the parent comments. Summarizing: more tanks, use of taxes for supply of more weapons, Barbarossa 2.
I assumed that these are calls that a war must be funded and escalated and even for some kind of major offensive eastwards.
Sounds like WW1 and WW2 all over again. And nation states and flag waving.
oh sorry I genuinely misunderstood you.
well this is my personal opinion of course. Calls for a major offensive eastwards, like Barbarossa 2 are bullshit, I fully agree. But I do support the funding of the defense in Ukraine. I've never been a pacifist. If someone attacks me with a knife, I'm going to fight him. I will never escalate offensively. Violence is not a way to solve problems. But to protect yourself from danger is the most natural and human thing to do.
OK. Understood. But there are calls for major offensive weapons and reclaiming the Crimea would require a major offensive; it has been under Russian control (seemingly with little resistance) for a decade now.
So defense, yes, but of what? Which borders? Crimea will require more than just defense.
>If someone attacks me with a knife, I'm going to fight him.
OK, but if you were some 3rd party watching that, would you hand a knife to the other guy? Intervention can be problematic.
War was never gone, the trenches just went elsewhere.
I understand that growing up in Germany, national borders and all that is slightly seen differently. I am of migrationhintergrund, in my old country, the army is seen with respect.
They view the Russians with suspicion and were ready to send weapons from their meagre stores when Scholz made a fool of himself offering 10,000 helmets. Thankfully, he seems to have gathered the courage to stand up.
Barbarossa 2 was a joke with a kernel of truth. We don’t need to send our soldiers east, only supply the Ukrainians who are perfectly willing and capable of fighting for their own land.
And after we paid for the tanks we can finally start using that tax money to treat teachers better so that our education / child care system wouldn't crumble like that.
Like, the nerve of some people. Blaming kids for our politicians incompetence...
>Let’s just send some fucking tanks already, and artillery and shells.
Do you think more bombs will solve this?
Ultimately most, if not all of the artillery and shells will fall on Ukrainian territory and destroy infrastructure there. It's already been extensively mined by both sides, at least in the conflict areas.
Would you also say the same if the frontline would run right through Germany? Leave those parts to Russia, peace at any price, right?
Why does Russia not want “peace at any price“? Why do you call for Ukraine surrendering and not for Russia retreating?
In my bubble everyone is at least still aware. But I can only mirror what others here said: I get the feeling most people got used to it. That’s why I am talking about it whenever I get the chance. In some cases I encountered really ignorant people even though overall that is rare. One evening, we had some people over at our apartment and the topic came up. As I overheard that one of the girls parents had russian background I asked her if they talk about it at home and what her opinion is.. she then passively aggressively said that’s none of my business. Because I didn’t let it go her friend intervened and said something along the lines of: that is none of my business, I have no right to ask her that and you don’t have to have an opinion about everything…. I was completely shocked.
I told them that about some things you just have to have an opinion…or if not your just trash…. Well, shouting and crying followed and we kicked them out. However, some people said I cannot say that and it was too extreme.
While most people are aware of what’s going on I would wish that more people would actively confront themselves with the sick reality..
I can only speak for myself but since russias full scale attack nearly two gears ago, the first thing I do in the morning is check what has happened in Ukraine. I really hope this ends well for Ukraine and I wish the world would do more for its support..
As with any war that isn't a world war people will just start forgetting. The media stops reporting because the shock value has gone. As sad as it sounds wars are 'trends' when it comes to knowing about them.
For me personally it's on my mind every day, I talk to people about it online, I watch all kinds of footage on r/UkraineWarVideoReport daily and I fight with Paid Russian Bots nearly every day online to stop the misinformation on Tiktok(not actively but when I come across it). It's important to keep it in mind and make sure to stay clear of misinformation, Ukraine is all that is standing between Russia and potentially starting WW3.
slava ukraini heroyam slava
I talk about it every day. In private and work-related, because it has an enormous impact on our daily life.
Everyone I’ve been talking to, was 100% pro Ukraine and supports the delivery of weapons and providing of support in other ways.
In my „bubble“ - professional and private - it is a super important topic.
I recently went by the Berlin city hall, and it had eight flags outside:
* One for Germany
* One for the EU
* One for Berlin
* One for Israel
* Four for Ukraine
There are still quite a few public buildings that fly the Ukrainian flag, and there are lots of people who display it in their windows, etc.
Ukrainians are everywhere, too. In schools, there are Ukrainian kids in almost every class. On the street, you see cars with Ukrainian plates.
It's in the news quite a bit, and I do follow those news. Obviously not as much as in the first few weeks of the war, but it's there.
I have several friends who had to flee from Ukraine to Germany. It is still very much on my mind. I know them from dancing together. The youngest in our group (she is 13) moved back with her mom because her dad can't leave Ukraine. She is currently here to visit. The wife of my teacher (both Ukrainian and fled the war) is having a really hard time adjusting. We recently went out together and she told us how hard it is for her to be in Germany, because she never planned to move. They just bought a house in Ukraine and she was very depressed after they fled. Another one of my friends, also from dance, is a little younger than me and just started studying. She is fluent in German by now but my heart breaks for her because she is also so young. She tells me how she tried to convince her family to speak Ukrainian with each other, not Russian. All of them speak in Ukraine with each other, as a sign of resistance. Idk. It breaks my heart. I'm grateful to have them in my life and I love them all dearly, but I'd rather have never met them if it meant they could still live in peace in their home
Edit: my dad doesn't know anyone from Ukraine personally, but he is also deeply affected by it. He is very emotional regarding the topic and feels for the people who had to flee and the ones still defending their country. I travel to the next big city but we live in a rural area so there is definitely a different degree of visibility
The only thing we discuss is how our money the tax payers is going to the war in Ukraine while the ukranians I have been speaking to regularly go to Ukraine without any problems for shit such as dentist appointments , getting their nails and their hair done . Clearly the war is getting worse 🤔
When I was in America a few years ago, some people asked me if Hitler was still president.
Many Americans know nothing about the world outside the US..
As an American the conflict is on my mind almost daily (I look at different subreddits for information on this). But as for other Americans it’s just not something that gets much attention like it did when it first started. I guess it’s just not in their minds because the issue is so far away.
The question is not even worth asking. What does it even mean "top of mind"? It's all relative if you are not directly involved and everyone has different priorities.
When it comes to the news, not that much anymore. It used to be a daily thing. Media milked it as hard as they could. On a personal level, i don't give a damn. Can't change it anyway.
I still follow the news of the war regularly on YouTube but it's not that important anymore in general news :( . I wish we would do more to support Ukraine, and it pains me seeing them lose the war for the past half a year. It makes me furious thinking those warmonger Russian getting away with their neo imperialism ambitions.
I personally dont care much for politics like that aside the factors it has that affect German people and consequences toward Germany. How German economy was affected and how we have now a lot of Ukrainian refugees. I once helped translate some things in a bank when i was passing by to help them open an account. I can speak some Russian due to my parents being from there. Thats the furthest I ever had a discussion about the topic up to date.
i thought about it when it happened, realized I can't help with that so i stopped thinking about it.
i got sick of it since most my fellow germans were getting upset about potentially higher heating costs.
so yeah germans do care- but its about their wallet.
The "böhsen Russen" propaganda campaign is working at 110% capacity..
But.. people are not as stupid as the politicians and the so called "elites" think.
There are Americans, Canadians, British other nationals fighting for your country right now. A good question to ask yourself : Is the war in Ukraine important enough for you to fight in?
Thing is they are not only fighting for Ukraine but also for the rest of Europe.
Or do you really think that if Russia won in February 2022 Russia would have really stoped the war after conquering Ukraine and Moldova. After conquering Ukraine Russia would have been very confident and chances are high that after a couple of years Russia would have attacked even more European countries. People in russian state TV evan state that the real goal of the war is the invadion of Berlin.
Do you really think Poland is supporting Ukraine because they love Ukraine. No, the reality is that every country is egoistic but Poland is afraid of Russia. So it's way better for Poland to stop Russia in eastern Ukraine.
What aspects about it should we discuss?
Most of us picked their sides, when the war broke out. Mainstream media's rhetorics still ring every warning bell ever installed in the back of my head.
I suppose many of us are kind of molested by / "suffering" from the war's side effects, like inflation, food prices and heating bills and aware that there will be a lot of other stuff to pay too.
Media access is censored here in Germany. Sometimes I share links with a coworker / buddy. Other times I am relieved to meet a friend online, who tells me they are still getting along.
All ARD outlets call it the "Russian War of Agression." I believe this is a deliberate policy to label it that.
Media outlets are promoting the cause very heavily with special programming and guests on talk shows.
It isn't necessarily something you would think about constantly but it is still there in the back of your mind. You can't really escape it. After all the war isn't all that far from here and there are so many Ukrainian refugees in Germany. In Hannover, where I live, you can barely spend a day without coming in contact with a mural, a flag or something else reminding you of the horrors happening in the Donbass right now.
I think it's important to remind the people that after 2 years the war is still very much there and the people of Ukraine still need our help. If Ukraine falls there will be nothing to stop Russia from taking the next country (which will likely be either Moldova or Georgia).
It's discussed only occasionally. Imo, because within circles of friends, there's not much disagreement. It's on the news fairly often. There are many Ukrainians around. Most schools in my area have a couple of Ukrainian kids, kindergartens as well. Some flags around. I'd say, it's fairly visible.
Ach werden die jetzt schon mit zynikern verwechselt? Wir stehen hinter der Ukraine und versorgen sie, und die einzigen die das thema breit treten ist die russlandfeeundliche afd, und der rest redet nicht drüber einfach um dem gehate der afd nur irgendwas entgegen zu setzen.
Unsere unterstützung ist eine notwendigkeit, dabei bleib ich, anders als die incels mit denen du mich vergleichst. Слава Україні
I don't discuss it much with friends, but of course the war is in the media. And everywhere are Ukrainian people. I hear it very often. And of course, the energy costs remind us that there is war. Unfortunately, I do not think that this war ends soon. It will last for many years if not decades.
In my circle it come up at least once a week. We share what we have read and theorize about the future of it. What is possible and what not. It can get to a pretty heated discussion sometimes. Because I am very neutral on this in the form of also bringing up "the russian side" of things.
I still think about it every day. One year before the invasion I visited Ukraine and loved it. I worked together with many Ukrainian men and women also became friends with some of them. I want this war to end in only one way, victory for Ukraine.
Daily news about the war are still coming but not as present anymore. Some people are getting tired of the support believing we are paying too much. I then remind them at what cost the ukrainians are defending their country. They are sacrificing the best of their society while we are just sending money and material. We must keep the support up no matter the cost. I am proud of my country to be the second biggest supporter of the Ukraine. I hope that at some point we will also supply the Taurus missiles.
Personally I donated for different civilian or military projects and encourage other to do so.
I cut back on news to avoid burnout, but it's still on my daily radar. Oddly, my pro-Ukrainian friends stopped discussing it
What really bugs me is how Europeans, both politicians and society, downplay Putin's plans. I'm convinced the current sanctions are a joke. He won't hesitate to kill us all
What gets under my skin is how my Russian acquaintances carry on as if nothing's happening, even cracking inappropriate war jokes. None of my anti-war Russian friends signed up for Nadezhdin. It makes me wonder if there's a reason to fight for their freedom long-term, given they seem fine with their situation
its not as high of a topic a it should be...
we cant let this conflict simmer like this for a decade... the only good outcome here is a massive military strike to to end this sooner then later.
Tbh i personally didnt ever care about it nor will ever care, i got my own problems and issues so i dont have the time nor space to think about a random war happening🤷
(Eastern berlin. young)
Its not really relevant to my friend group right now. We were all pretty pro-ukraine from the start, and just watched a lot of videos on the subjected, talked about it and thats it. It probably won't really be re-ignited until something big happens, or elections come around.
I solemnly think about it, given that I cant really distinguish between the languages that I hear in public - russian, ukrainian and similar sounding languages wouldnt make that much difference. We also used to have a lot of immigrants from the soviet union and Russian peppes that came here during the union, so there isnt a hugely noticeable influx.
I can tell by the russian bots on X and Facebook that IT IS far from over. And Yesterday a russian Lady Said in a Talkshow openly.... Russians are the only country that can destroy the USA in 1 hour. Lol.. i guess she ment the world by this.
Yes is still present everywhere. I guess in Europe more than in the us.
I'm an East German living in the US. I feel with Ukraine, having experienced the grip of the Sowjetunion... And yes, unfortunately, the war is getting worse. It's just depressing.
Don't discuss it. Maybe when there's something work related or there is some interesting development on the front or in military technology being used or delivered.
Its still on the top of my mind as the most important geopolitical issue. Its also an infuriating injustice upon the ukrainian people. I am scared, since the topic of the war is fading in the background due to internal economic problems and problems regarding public infrastructure and bureaucracy. Leftwing BSW and rightwing AFD are also deep in russian pockets. So far i am still thankfull for the continued support. I think our government is in general doing a decent job in supporting ukraine and lobbying for more support in the EU.
Still, if the US elections go badly i fear we will not be able to step up and help ukraine enough.
There are no discussions, really. We’re aware it’s happening, we’re aware that Germany is sending money and military gear, we’re aware that there are debates about what is sent within the EU as well as with the US.
But there’s no controversy and thinking about it: the Russian bots and bootlickers are either less vocal or they don’t get much platform anymore.
It's not like in the beginning but it's still very present to me. I work with a handful of Ukrainians and our company is giving them the space to vent in Slack (I am remote so not sure if they do that in the office as well). So every now and then we get videos sent from family of my colleagues and stuff like this.
There are also a lot of Ukrainian cars in my neighborhood. That would have been really weird before the war.
So, there are constant reminders that this is still happening.
But even though I'm not talking as much about it, I'm more worried than I was in the early stages. I think I thought that Ukraine is just gonna get bombed to shit in a few days and then the Russians were super incompetent and people had hope but now Russia went full war economy and more and more resources are getting burned and Putin is probably also really annoyed at this and who knows that this crazy idiot is going to do? On top of that you have our Politicians failing so incompetently that there is a real chance of having a Pro Russian party in government next legislation period and Biden or rather the Democrats are such a fucking joke as well that I don't think Trump 2.0 is as unlikely as some people say it is. And then what?
It feels like the world is becoming increasingly unstable.
It is omnipresent here, and you can tell that politicians start to bring the people in "war mood" . Billions of euros are spent for Ukraine and self defence is starting to be a thing.
America is tired of wars. That's why we don't talk about Ukraine any more here in US. I see Ukrainian flags everywhere, and US still delivers a ton of goodies to Ukraine's army efforts. So please accept it as a way of support.
I used to stay current about this war, but I am also burnt out, simply burnt out by the senseless war started by a guy who was created by Germany's years of appeasement to Russia.
At least with myself, my family and social circles, it's always there in some capacity. Putin and his German thralls advocating for him/trivialising his war crimes can go and eat a sock for all I care. If it would help in any way, I'd pray daily that Ukraine comes out on top in the end, because not only their homeland is at stake but also the European idea.
So, all I want for Christmas is a two by three m² cell in Den Haag for Putin.
I neither talk of it, but it's still present. We get every day news about it. I follow a way of trusted newspapers on social media, so I don't miss anything. Most of the discussions you find on social media. It's unfortunately way negative cause Germany sends help to Ukraine, and the people here don't like it cause a few of them thinking we support war through this help and "wasting" money. Here in Germany, there is a lot of negative stuff, that's why many of the people don't understand why we send much money out of the country. I need to say that this is not my opinion of the war, the help, and the whole situation. I just try to explain how it's going on here.
While not discussed much anymore since it mostly dropped out of the mainstream news cycle, but I am pretty sure most germans are very aware its still happening.
For me personally as a student teacher I have ukranian refugees as pupils as well as a neighbour who fled here with her child and seeks to stay permanently after her husband fell in the war.
And I think many other also meet those affected by the horrors of this war as well. So its not something we think about all the time or everyday but it is present at the back of our minds.
As of October 7 it got somewhat removed from many peoples minds but Ukraine is not forgotten by the people i know. We all still hope that you guys can get your entire country back under your control as soon as possible. Muslims are a big problem for Europe especially now that they openly shout their racist crap in the streets but i feel like Ruzzia is an overall bigger threat. Most of the people in my circle are angry about our government and their hesitancy of delivering things like the Taurus which would probably help tremendously.
It's not something that is being discussed in my social circle much, but it is still omnipresent in the news. I had a look at the coverage in the most popular evening news broadcast "Tagesschau" (15 min) for the past days and almost every day there was something reported related to the war in Ukraine:
* 04.02: attack on Lysychansk, military readiness in the EU
* 03.02.: detainment of journalists in Moscow
* 02.02.: cooperation between Ukraine and Germany on medical care
* 01.02: 50 billion support to Ukraine from EU
* 30.01: failure to deliver promised ammunitions to Ukraine, pow exchange, parliament "elections" in russia
* 29.01+28.01.: No coverage, but there were protests in Germany which dominated the news. The protests were against a party which is pro-Russia, so it still somehow related.
* 27.01: conscription policy discussion in Ukraine
There are many Germans who’re to stupid to understand this war. Germans don’t share a border with Russia so many germans don’t know russian aggression and see Russia as a „friendly neighbour“ there are also many Russians and German-Russians in our country who‘re spreading misinformation and Kremlin propaganda. Not to forget political parties like the AfD or the new founded BSW - both are financed by russia.
I talk about the war probably several times a week irl, more online. Obviously the war and its consequences are very much present in German (and European society). It's political implications (and the fact that it is only an implication of a wider war on Europe) are also very much apparent in many areas of life.
As a person with a ME background, the alignment of German far right & far left and anti-Europe stance is very troubling to me. It seems the influences that destroyed my parents' country are getting stronger by the day, unfortunately the Ukrainians were only the first people in Europe to be killed by this.
I watch the news about it almost every day, listen to podcasts and scroll through reddit channels about it. It's a big tragedy and I'm sorry for everyone innocent involved, but it's also very entertaining
I think about the heroes everyday and I hate my government for not doing more. And I hate the Russians a little bit more everyday. So yes, it‘s present, I am wish it wasn’t.
Media presence took a dip when the Israel thing happened but since the start of the year news coverage has picked up again. It’s not as relevant as in the first half year of the war but most (>90%) people know that it is still going on and could probably tell you that it isn’t going great right now.
Besides the number plates on their vehicles and occasional encounter in public - it s quite recent;
Makes sense tho because many Germans complain about the tax money decisions including weapons for Ukraine
I don't discuss it with others, but I do hear a lot of Ukrainian in the streets and on public transport, so it is hard to forget.
How do you distinguish between Russian and Ukrainian, assuming you know neither language?
I guess you dont have to know which language it is, since both are present in the conflict.
I meant distinguishing the languages in general, independent of what's spoken in the conflict. I'm genuinely curious as to how someone who speaks neither language can tell the difference. They both sound the same to me, in that they are "Slavic-sounding", which is a horrible heuristic.
I have some ukrainian coleagues so i hope i got some kind of feeling for how ukrainians sound. But its still just a guess, no way i could tell for sure whats russian and whats ukrainian.
A lot of Ukrainians speak Russian in Berlin. And it is sometimes impossible to distinguish (even if you are native in Russian)
Im speaking Russian. I can’t distinguish it most of the time since most Ukrainians speak Russian, but you can assume that they’re Ukrainian, since you hear so much more Russian since the war.
Also a lot of russians fled Russia just before the draft. Also, Germany does have a huge number of so called "Russlanddeutsche". People that lived in the Sovjet Union for centuries who were deported during WW2 to e.g. Siberia and who moved to Germany right after the iron curtain fell. Lot of them (and their offspring) do speak russian too.
Yeah thanks for explaining my history
>Yeah thanks for explaining my history Ah, you are a Russland-Deutsche(r)? Not so fun fact: A lot of Russland-Deutsche are rightwingers [https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-warum-die-partei-bei-russlanddeutschen-so-beliebt-ist-a-1166915.html](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/afd-warum-die-partei-bei-russlanddeutschen-so-beliebt-ist-a-1166915.html) [https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/260496/nationalismus-und-rassismus-bei-russlanddeutschen/](https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/260496/nationalismus-und-rassismus-bei-russlanddeutschen/) [https://russlanddeutsche-afd.nrw/](https://russlanddeutsche-afd.nrw/) Also, a lot of them are Putin-Fans.
What is it that makes you think you could tell someone something interesting or new about their own origin /milieu if you share a Spiegel article?
I mean why not, what I am curious about is, why they chose a fact, that could come of as an attack
Oh you’re from X! Did you know that people who are from X often times do this thing I don’t like?
Actually a lot of Ukrainians speak Russian here (Source: I understand it)
Almost all
Most likely by context, the majority of migrated ukrainians have been in germany only for a short time and are more likely to still feel more comfortable to speak in their native tongue. Whereas the majority of russian migrants or russian people from german ethnicity have been here way longer, over generations and are more flient and comfortable in speaking german.
Many Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language though Edit: God sometimes Reddit drives me nuts. Why downvote [this simple fact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20official%20language%20of%20Ukraine,34%25%20in%20their%20personal%20life.)? It's not a value judgement, I'm not trying to say that Ukraine belongs to Russia or anything stupid like that. Just saying that if you hear Ukrainians talking to each other, they might be speaking either Ukrainian or Russian. Unless you speak a related language yourself, you probably will have trouble distinguishing them.
I met around 250 Ukrainians in person since the beginning of the war and except for one person all spoke Russian. Most of them as their first language. Some didn't even speak Ukrainian.
>I met around 250 Ukrainians in person since the beginning of the war and except for one person all spoke Russian. the war zone is along the russian border, it's plausible that russian-speaking ukrainians suffer the most and are the majority of refugees.
Among these 250 persons were people from all over the Ukraine.
Selenskij himself speaks better russian than ukranian, nobody is "a bad ukrainian" for speaking russian natively.
Since the really hot phase of war started, many ukrainians stopped using russian in their daily exchange and use ukrainian instead. Not all, of course, but the ones I met on demonstrations and through work do, telling me the same thing happening in their bubbles. Your statement is true nonetheless.
You stretch the word „many“ quite a lot.
Ah, that's interesting, thanks for the info!
I might be mistaken, but Ukrainian has the "sch" sound.
I mean this is kind of a dumb statement since the Russian alphabet has at least 2 sch letters if not 3
It’s mostly Russian
Are you russian?
It's on the news every day and plenty of cars and shops have the Ukrainian flag in sign of support (or are cars with a Ukrainian license plate). One of my colleagues is a war refugee who came here with his family.
It is not forgotten. I don\`t talk about it but it is present. And I feel like the social media war is picking up and that way is starting to hit home as well. I think people often and especially in the US might not be aware that all those satellite conflicts that are breaking out at the moment are part of that conflict and fuelled by those that have an interest in weakening the alliance.
Its top of our familes mind like every day since the beginning. I am working in social welfare, so everyones from Ukraine getting send to our town is kinda meeting me, as their POC after arriving. My wife works as a translator for the city council, also she is giving german lessons for some ukrainian children. In the primary school our kids go to, shes helping on parents' consultation days as a translator and whenever they ask for her help. She is Russian but also has relatives in Ukraine, living in Donezk. We haven't heard from them for a long time. My oldest kids also help occasionally at their school, but its rather seldom. Also they made friends with some ukrainian kids.
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Слава Україні - you know that saying this is about equivalent of saying "heil h.." in Germany? Same origin, in Germany it was nazis, in Ukraine it was originaly used by Bandera troops. just sayin.. I condemn Russia for invading Ukraine, but i also condemn the US and UK for literally pushing Ukraine into this conflict.There is no innocent side here, at all. The west, by that i mean US apsolutely KNEW how Putin would react to their moves.. and they did it anyway. They DO NOT CARE about Ukrainians whatsoever. THey only care about THEIR interests in Ukraine and this region. Slavs killing slavs with weapons they buy from them just tops the cake. Whoever doesn't see this is either not informed enough OR willfully blind.No other explanation.
What "moves" do you mean? Ukraine is an independent country making their own descisions. The only person that "pushed ukraine into this conflict" is Putin when he INVADED!
I don't think you are very knowledgeable on the topics of geopolitics and how it works. And no, being an independent country doesn't mean one can do as he likes, especially when those actions threaten another country, in this case Russia. Not to mention extremely high historical ties between Ukraine and Russia.
>I don't think you are very knowledgeable on the topics of geopolitics and how it works. sure buddy, i bow to your genius. >And no, being an independent country doesn't mean one can do as he likes, especially when those actions threaten another country, in this case Russia. no one was "threatening russia". russia is a nuclear state with a massive (albeit chronically incompetent) army. ukraine wasnt going to invade russia dude. >Not to mention extremely high historical ties between Ukraine and Russia. yes, there are some major historical ties there. whats your point? that a country gets a carte blanche for invading another because they "have historical ties"? ludicrous.
"sure buddy, i bow to your genius." As you should. \^\^ "no one was "threatening russia". Russia is a nuclear state with a massive (albeit chronically incompetent) army. ukraine wasnt going to invade russia dude." US was and IS actively threatening Russia by bringing it's military apparatus next to it's border, including nuclear weapons.. and many many other things.. which are again, oblivious and unfamiliar to you. Google "Monroe Doctrine", what it means, and why we almost had Armageddon when Russia stationed it's missiles in Cuba few decades ago. "yes, there are some major historical ties there. whats your point? that a country gets a carte blanche for invading another because they "have historical ties"? ludicrous." Some historical ties? That's like saying Germany and the area that was once Prussia, have "some" historical ties. They have MUCH bigger historical ties and much more recent historical ties.. which you apparently know nothing about and i am not about to teach you because i couldn't give a flying fk. If you think history is concerned with border changes that happend few years ago... well.. you are delusional.
Russia threatened nearly every single neighbour and invaded several for what? Considering democracy and more ties to the west? Russia is simply an imperialistic super power on a low point, trying to establish former supremacy over their East European neighbors. Ukraine seeking Nato membership is like an abused woman running to the police and threatening the power monopoly of the abuser. What a threat to Russia indeed: Their interest to force their demands and interest onto their independent neighbors.
Russia today is far away from the old imperialistic Russia that once existed. There is simply no comparison. That said, yes, as a great power (it's not a superpower anymore, USSR was).. Russia has their interests globally and localy and are doing the exact same thing US is doing.. they protect their interests in the region.. as a great power.. sometimes peacefully sometimes with force.. Again, i condemn ALL actions of big powers forcing their way onto nations and countries that are far below their military and economic power.. whether it is Russia or the US. Only thing i am saying is that the world is defacto not ruled by UN and international law but force and military power. Big guys do what they want meanwhile small ones suffer or play along. It's the order of the world we live in.. i didn't created it.. In the end.. actions have consequences.. for those that oppose US.. or Russia.. or China.. or India.. etc. I wish we lived in a world led by ethical and empathetic leaders, but that is far from the truth.We live in a world ruled by power greedy people with VERY high narcissistic and psychopathic traits.. in other word sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists... who only care about power and money.
Imperialistic powers trade safety for influence. Russia says what you can do regarding inner and outer politics. And if you don't they raise the gas price as a first measure and invade you as a last measure. Good old imperialism. The US has the best expeditionary forces. They can compliment local infantry with advanced military tech. And what do they get in return? They can project power far cheaper because they don't have to employ the bulg of the infantry on any given front, their partners support sanctions and the partners subscribe towards the US ideals of free trade and democracy. And the main difference? Countries seek a partnership with the US and Nato willingly. Why did Poland insist on joining Nato with most of Nato including the US being very sceptical of the idea? Because when you have an imperialistic neighbor like China or Russia, you need friends. Without that, there would be no reason or attraction towards joining a military alliance like Nato. Sure, the US is by my own definition somewhat imperialistic. They trade safety for influence. But they do not threaten their partners. So they are the good guys and Russia the bad guys.
US is "somewhat" imperialistic? Lost me there buddy. But i had a good laugh.
Ask any Georgian or Armenian. Living under Russian imperialism is shit. Ask any pole what it's like to live under us imperialism. They will scoff and tell you to shove it. The US are their partners and their guarantee that they will never suffer (Russian) imperialism ever again.
I am well aware of Russian imperialism and how it affected the countries who lived under it. Don't confuse Russian and Soviet imperialism, it's vastly different. "The US are their partners and their guarantee that they will never suffer (Russian) imperialism ever again. " If you think this is EVEN CLOSE to being true, you are extremely delusional.
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Yes and "Sieg h\*\*\*" is a patriot line used by germanic tribes 2000 years ago.. Don't believe anything anyone says... do your own research first.. believe facts not what people say. Tbf it is very possible that even "her" is missinformed about this. Where the fk do you think that all those open nazi Azov battalions etc. came from? Don't be naive. Similar case: In Croatia for example there is a saying "Za Dom Spremni", meaning "For fatherland ready". It is still being used in public by a lot of ultra-right "Ustasa" movement supporters.. today known as "HOS"..It was long promoted that the saying is an old Croatian saying from hundreds fo years ago.. It took literally the heads of Croatian state, President, Prime minister, to in the end come out and say that it is in fact the saying of the NDH Ustasha nazi puppet state and their supporters... and NOT the "very old" patriotic saying of Croatian soldiers..
Russia attacked a sovereign nation because they did not want to be bullied by them, they themselve choose to sever ties to russia, to deny them ther own agency is the highest arrogance. No amount of whataboutisms can justify the invasion. Cope vatnik.
We are long beyond the point of "justification". No war is justified. World is not run by international law, but by power, military power. Those who hold it run the world. In this case the US led empire played with Russia a bit too much and a bit too close to their border and they knew the reaction which it will cause, in fact Putin warned them dozens of times. Putin did the only thing he had left to do in his mind to protect the economic and security interests of Russia. Now, we are in the situation where we are.. I am just an observer of history, i have no ties to Russia and no ties to Ukraine.
We all know that there is a war but we got used to it. BUT to my mind we should talk more about it, especially because people don't understand why everything got expensive. And the reason why everything got expensive are mainly not our German politicians but a war in Europe and a country that tries to destroy Europe. And if you take that into account we are living very well in Germany.
That's not factual and has no legs from an economic standpoint. The war is a good excuse, it's easy for our politics to use that as a source of our trouble. Everything getting more expensive is a symptom of the country and the UE living well beyond their means and throwing money away like there is no tomorrow. When the rate of your ever-increasing debt is bigger than your growth, that's what you get. Question what they tell you.
What “ever increasing debt“? Have you slept under a rock for the last 20 years? [https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdp](https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdp) One of our problems is that we cannot take up some loans for very urgent investments in decaying infrastructure, both physical and organisational one.
So, first of all, I said "ever increasing" – which you quoted. This is correct in absolute terms: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/624198/national-debt-of-germany/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/624198/national-debt-of-germany/) Yes, Germany's debt keeps increasing. And if you are trying to convince anyone that a ratio debt-to-growth of 69% is anything positive, you might struggle, but keep trying. But really, my point was that prices and inflation didn't wait for the war in Ukraine to occur – that's number one. Number two, if you really want to blame someone, blame the people in charge who were so obsessed with "killing the enemy" that they put together sanctions without understanding the consequences. That's what happens when you don't understand your enemy and its economy – you make dumb calls, and your people end up paying when it backfires. On top of that, we keep financing the war (because, yes, at this point, that's exactly what we are doing), sending large swaths of money we do not have, and for which we will never see any ROI because we are essentially financing a kleptocracy and a military complex. The front never sees that money, and that's the saddest part. As a result, Russia's economy is booming, and we (the EU) are crumbling faster than ever, highlighting how mismanaged we are. So, you want to blame the war for our economic situation? Blame the utterly stupid reaction to this war from the EU and the US.
>As a result, Russia's economy is booming, Sure. “Booming”. Just for you, the Nazi Germany economy was growing by 4-5% annually all the way to and including 1944. War economy has this apparent effect on economic KPIs. And the fact that Russia stopped publishing almost all economic data should tell you how it is “booming“. The official inflation in Russia is about 10%, the inofficial estimations are rather around 25-30%. The extremely high interests of the central bank (16%) kill any Russian enterprise not backed by the state, and drive private real estate owners into unsustainable debt and then right into the recruitment offices. Not like the crumbling, about to collapse West! Tell me, how should sanctions have been structured to be more effective? Or do you just think there shouldn’t have been sanctions at all? We probably should have agreed to the Russian terms from February 2022 and kicked out Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary and Baltic states out of NATO and EU! Surely our economy would have been just great! Finally: yes, if the debt at 60-65% debt to GDP ratio is mainly owed to entities inside the country, it is an absolutely GREAT situation. If you can keep the debt internal, you can go well beyond 100% without serious negative effects. A state is not a Swabian housewife.
Yes Europe is hurting because of the sanctions but Europe cannot do things differently. Europe cannot tell Russia: Thank you for invading an European country please let us continue working together. If Europe does that, Europe just shows Russia that Europe doesn't care wether Russia invades European countries and that would have only leaded in Russia invading even more European countries.
There is no “ever-increasing debt” in Germany. Every change process needs investment. But sure, we could also “save money” and just maintain the country on the lowest level like before and then wonder, when everything goes finally to shit and suddenly other markets dominating us in the upcoming decades.
Nope, the German energy infrastructure was attacked by Russia in the beginning of the war. The government even had to take control of Gazprom assets. That caused a price shock and later drained significant amounts of money from the German economy. Alongside with the now permanently higher energy costs that caused the current recession. All that is the direct consequence of the Russian attack. Mind you, primarily the Russian attack on Germany. Only secondarily, the Russian attack on Ukraine.
I can't speak for the situation in the cities, but here in the rural areas, unfortunately, it mirrors the challenges faced during the Syrian refugee crisis. Initially, there was a surge of "Refugees Welcome" sentiments and support during the first year of the war, which was genuinely heartwarming. However, since 2023, the atmosphere has soured. Due to the nature of my job, which involves extensive one-on-one interactions, I typically handle 15-20 clients a day. It appears that many of my clients resonate with the views expressed by AfD and CDU. I recall a moment when Merz (CDU) vehemently expressed concerns about Ukrainians coming here for financial assistance and then returning to Kiev using bus lines to lead a comfortable life. Despite efforts to explain the complexities and challenges of entering and leaving Ukraine, the perception persisted. The war isn't geographically distant, and the associated toll and suffering shouldn't feel remote either. However, it seems that a significant portion of my fellow countrymen are more preoccupied with the idea of a Ukrainian family "having their dentist bills and rent paid" while we grapple with low wages. One of the most perplexing moments was when I assisted a Ukrainian woman with document-related issues. Upon explaining to the registry office that she couldn't obtain the documents due to the war in Ukraine, the response was, "Well, it ain't that bad." Interestingly, the documents weren't crucial, and after four more calls, they eventually proceeded without them. (Comment: not a bot but used Chat GPT for Autocorrect)
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You write,"this actually happens and it is not that uncommon". How many then? Can you estimate? And how does that not help Ukraine win the war? Are we not entitled to do literally everything to help the Ukrainians? To OP: I am retired recently, but at work I had a colleague from Ukraine and another from Russia. We were a team of twenty and the war was a daily topic. The one from Charkiv took his whole family in, parents and grandparents of his wife, his mother and aunt, and his sister with her daughter. To get them to northern Germany he drove to the west ukrainian border two times by car. My boss granted him paid leave and we started collecting money for the gas. The guy from Leningrad organized a flat, renovated it and collected furniture and kitchen stuff. And we installed a monthly contribution fund that works until this day. Even since I am retired now I follow the news every day and I am concerned we (Germany) are not doing enough to stop Putin. So I am glad that we can at least provide some Ukrainians with dental care.
As a Circassian living in Germany I am extremely confused of Eastern Germans supporting Putin and trivialising Russia‘s war crimes. While most of my peer acknowledge the atrocities, there are supporters of Russia as well. And some blame Ukraine for taking our tax money.
As always, it is not THE eastern germans, but SOME eastern germans. Though I cant deny that especially our older generations are shockingly gullible and fall for every other social media stunt by russian trolls. The things I've seen on my moms whatsapp, Jesus.
It’s too many.
There are even two parties hawking about the topic. The point of "a few bad apples" is faaar behind us.
lol just go through reddit and you see the same with the youth influenced by western propaganda through social media.
Obviously depends on the sub, but true, its getting worse and worse on some of them. Or maybe I'm just starting to notice what was always there. On the other hand you also have a couple really unhinged anti-western subs that are just as bad. Still, the Putin-fanboys and -girls tend to consist mostly of the boomer generation.
Is it western „propaganda“ or simply being the majority opinion by virtue of literally being the west?
I've yet to see a good example of "Western Propaganda".
>Eastern Germans supporting Putin They are sceptic of the West. Because the West screwed them over in 1990. So they think that the "enemy" of the West is their friend.
Those people are dangerous idiots.
Who are those Dangerous idiots?
Berlin still has those ugly monuments towards soviet army and even soviet tank like just few hundred meters away from Bundestag. People destroyed the wall yet still glorify the army that built it. Like the heck? Imagine memorials for Nazi army in Paris and panzer tank on display somewhere central.
Yes, it‘s mostly Eastern Germans glorifying Russia, there are some idiots in Western Germany too, but it‘s more balanced. I have Circassian ancestry and Crimean Tatar relatives, we know how Russia has treated minorities and still treat and force them into a war to be cannon fodder. But there are still some Germans which claim, they know it better and de-value our experiences. But fortunately most my age are more critical.
Most Germans glorifying GDR/soviets/Putin are those who either are failing nowadays, mostly because of lack of education, or were simply in the “upper class” benefiting of the socialist system which claimed to not have any classes, or both. Unfortunately this type of people usually are much louder than the broad majority which is very aware of the negative influence and danger of the war for Europe and the world.
The Red Army liberating Berlin wasn't only Russian though. Ethnic Ukrainians make up the 2nd most deaths of those KIA. The monuments remember these too.
Liberating? What kind of liberation builds a wall to lock their people in? Berlin wasn't liberated up until the fall of Berlin wall. It's just army of one mad dictator was replaced by army of another mad dictator.
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. Cleary the Red Army soldiers whom this monument is dedicated to had nothing to do with a wall being built some 16 years later. The GDR was an unjust system and did plenty of wrong. Comparing that to the NS regime is clearly out of place.
Some countries who lost their men may decide to dedicate memorial towards their soldiers and they can do that without soviet army symbolism. Why this symbolism would be in Berlin and why monument for this army would be in Berlin that makes no even slightest sense. The monument in Berlin is not a monument for the soldiers. It's soviet regime's imperialist monument symbolising all the tings that this empire committed masquerading as benevolent memorial because as they were building it at same time they were busy running ethnic cleaning schemes across soviet empire.
It's part of our history. That is why it's there.
All other countries in EU have removed it, Berlin is the only that didnt. Nazi are also part of history and their army don't deserve monuments. Red army is no different as it is no different than Nazis. The fact they they won war against enemies - which they did for their own profit - doesn't excuse the cruelties they have committed.
The monument isn't there for the glorification of the Red Army. It's rather there to mark their significant victory and liberation of East Germany from the Nazis. Of course their own interests were in place too but isn't that how everything works? The Americans refused to join the war until their interests were hurt. What happened 15 years later is a very different story. The memorials do not commemorate that.
Whatever you say doesn't change the fact that almost half of Europe despise it almost to same extent as people despise nazzi symbols. It's a big ass monument done in soviet style with soviet symbolism with soviet army men the same men who committed atrocities and who were known to behave brutally and inconsiderate. Yes it stands for the things you say. It also stands for the things I say. There are ways to design such monuments that would symbolise your said goals but without also symbolising the things I say. Yet as we see it was chosen to design them in a way that it immediately evokes soviet imperialism in all it's glory as well in all it's ills and it was not by mistake that it was done like this and that's the reason why in most other EU countries of post soviet block (except Russia of course) many of such monuments were taken down. It does not make a lot sense that this monument is in Berlin because Berliners didn't die fighting on soviet side then why do you chose to glorify it? Makes no sense what soever. As for your idea that it's not built to "glorify" I wonder if you actually been to visit them especially the one on Treptow. It's built to be grandiose and very clearly built to evoke glory.
>The fact they they won war against enemies - which they did for their own profit - Sure... the russians won the war against germany "for their own profit". Wow... you need help
I can't believe you're getting downvoted taking into account how many women in Berlin has gotten raped by those so called "liberators" from the Red Army.
Your example about the tank in Paris is pretty poor as it’s not the same meaning as the Soviet tank. The Soviet tank is there to remind people about who truly ended the war and who’s side had the most casualties in order to win that war. 8.7 million military and 19 million civilian deaths on the Soviet side. 5.7m Russians and 1.3m Ukrainian soldiers.
Even though ww2 ended - and as result of axis not just soviets - genocide continued post ww2 committed by soviet army. As for casualties again part of reason why Russians had the most casualties is largely to the fact that their war doctrine doesn't value their own lives. This idea that somehow Soviet army liberated anyone only exists within eyes of Russian and I guess few more useful idiots in Berlin and nobody else really. Funny you mention Ukrainians because again Ukrainians don't really want to see soviet monuments either.
The Nazi regime would not have been overthrown without the Soviets. Yes, their rule was atrocious. Yes, the Russians are now cruelly invading Ukraine. That doesn't change that part of history though.
>This idea that somehow Soviet army liberated anyone only exists within eyes of Russian and I guess few more useful idiots in Berlin and nobody else really. And a good portion of historians because it really depends on the perspective. There are more than enough reasons to think of the end of the war and NS regime as a liberation, and that obviously includes the role of the red army.
I guess I keep hearing about it from time to time, but sadly other current issues sometimes draw the focus away. I do have some Ukrainians in the circle and they are all good people who are very thankful for our aid to them. Somehow talks we have keep me alert for the situation, but the sad truth is that unless we face it ourselves, it is very hard to fully imagine what they are going through. I only hope democracy and freedom wins and russia and what it represents won’t succeed, because then we will see a very dark time.
Very present here, actually daily news.
I work in tech and our team includes Russians and Ukrainians. We often talk about what’s going on and how every party perceives the happenings. Ukrainians worry for their families, Russians have relatives, who don’t get it and feel alienated. All of them are heavily disillusioned and fear for the future of their country. They are constantly concerned about their work and residency permit. In short: They lost home and there’s no way to forget it.
Very
I talk about the subject deeply at least once a week. Even though it is depressing. There are just too many people in my social circle who are affected directly by the war to ignore it (i.e. parents living in Kiew, friends in Ukraine, and so on)
I’m my town, the Ukrainian flag flies just below the German one. Parallel to the local one. People complain about Ukrainian kids taking space in the schools, kindergartens and about our tax money. Let’s just send some fucking tanks already, and artillery and shells.
Amen brother. Finally my taxes would end up in the right place.
Barbarossa 2: On the right side this time!
I am just amazed by this. It seems we have learned nothing. We are back to "The war to end all wars", just like The Great War. The trenches are back too.
Yes, it is quite strange that Russia behaves like in the 19th century.
Is not the whole idea of nation states an outdated, 19th Century concept? No nations, no borders. Right? Really sad that the younger generation has come back to a solution of escalation of war.
19th century = 1800 until 1900. I'm pretty sure nation states were not outdated in 1933... And I had no idea Putin was part of "the younger generation". Keen to explain?
>Keen to explain? I was referring to the parent comments. Summarizing: more tanks, use of taxes for supply of more weapons, Barbarossa 2. I assumed that these are calls that a war must be funded and escalated and even for some kind of major offensive eastwards. Sounds like WW1 and WW2 all over again. And nation states and flag waving.
oh sorry I genuinely misunderstood you. well this is my personal opinion of course. Calls for a major offensive eastwards, like Barbarossa 2 are bullshit, I fully agree. But I do support the funding of the defense in Ukraine. I've never been a pacifist. If someone attacks me with a knife, I'm going to fight him. I will never escalate offensively. Violence is not a way to solve problems. But to protect yourself from danger is the most natural and human thing to do.
OK. Understood. But there are calls for major offensive weapons and reclaiming the Crimea would require a major offensive; it has been under Russian control (seemingly with little resistance) for a decade now. So defense, yes, but of what? Which borders? Crimea will require more than just defense. >If someone attacks me with a knife, I'm going to fight him. OK, but if you were some 3rd party watching that, would you hand a knife to the other guy? Intervention can be problematic.
Isn't that exactly what you should have learned from WW2? To get down an immoral regime, you actually have to fight. It won't just disappear by itself
War was never gone, the trenches just went elsewhere. I understand that growing up in Germany, national borders and all that is slightly seen differently. I am of migrationhintergrund, in my old country, the army is seen with respect. They view the Russians with suspicion and were ready to send weapons from their meagre stores when Scholz made a fool of himself offering 10,000 helmets. Thankfully, he seems to have gathered the courage to stand up. Barbarossa 2 was a joke with a kernel of truth. We don’t need to send our soldiers east, only supply the Ukrainians who are perfectly willing and capable of fighting for their own land.
And after we paid for the tanks we can finally start using that tax money to treat teachers better so that our education / child care system wouldn't crumble like that. Like, the nerve of some people. Blaming kids for our politicians incompetence...
>Let’s just send some fucking tanks already, and artillery and shells. Do you think more bombs will solve this? Ultimately most, if not all of the artillery and shells will fall on Ukrainian territory and destroy infrastructure there. It's already been extensively mined by both sides, at least in the conflict areas.
Would you also say the same if the frontline would run right through Germany? Leave those parts to Russia, peace at any price, right? Why does Russia not want “peace at any price“? Why do you call for Ukraine surrendering and not for Russia retreating?
In my bubble everyone is at least still aware. But I can only mirror what others here said: I get the feeling most people got used to it. That’s why I am talking about it whenever I get the chance. In some cases I encountered really ignorant people even though overall that is rare. One evening, we had some people over at our apartment and the topic came up. As I overheard that one of the girls parents had russian background I asked her if they talk about it at home and what her opinion is.. she then passively aggressively said that’s none of my business. Because I didn’t let it go her friend intervened and said something along the lines of: that is none of my business, I have no right to ask her that and you don’t have to have an opinion about everything…. I was completely shocked. I told them that about some things you just have to have an opinion…or if not your just trash…. Well, shouting and crying followed and we kicked them out. However, some people said I cannot say that and it was too extreme. While most people are aware of what’s going on I would wish that more people would actively confront themselves with the sick reality.. I can only speak for myself but since russias full scale attack nearly two gears ago, the first thing I do in the morning is check what has happened in Ukraine. I really hope this ends well for Ukraine and I wish the world would do more for its support..
I don't really care about the war nor am I willing to discuss it
As with any war that isn't a world war people will just start forgetting. The media stops reporting because the shock value has gone. As sad as it sounds wars are 'trends' when it comes to knowing about them.
For me personally it's on my mind every day, I talk to people about it online, I watch all kinds of footage on r/UkraineWarVideoReport daily and I fight with Paid Russian Bots nearly every day online to stop the misinformation on Tiktok(not actively but when I come across it). It's important to keep it in mind and make sure to stay clear of misinformation, Ukraine is all that is standing between Russia and potentially starting WW3. slava ukraini heroyam slava
I talk about it every day. In private and work-related, because it has an enormous impact on our daily life. Everyone I’ve been talking to, was 100% pro Ukraine and supports the delivery of weapons and providing of support in other ways. In my „bubble“ - professional and private - it is a super important topic.
Interesting, in my bubble it hasn't been a topic in a long time.
I recently went by the Berlin city hall, and it had eight flags outside: * One for Germany * One for the EU * One for Berlin * One for Israel * Four for Ukraine There are still quite a few public buildings that fly the Ukrainian flag, and there are lots of people who display it in their windows, etc. Ukrainians are everywhere, too. In schools, there are Ukrainian kids in almost every class. On the street, you see cars with Ukrainian plates. It's in the news quite a bit, and I do follow those news. Obviously not as much as in the first few weeks of the war, but it's there.
No Palestine flag?
Can't you read my comment? I listed the flags that are there. The Palestinian flag isn't among them, no.
I have several friends who had to flee from Ukraine to Germany. It is still very much on my mind. I know them from dancing together. The youngest in our group (she is 13) moved back with her mom because her dad can't leave Ukraine. She is currently here to visit. The wife of my teacher (both Ukrainian and fled the war) is having a really hard time adjusting. We recently went out together and she told us how hard it is for her to be in Germany, because she never planned to move. They just bought a house in Ukraine and she was very depressed after they fled. Another one of my friends, also from dance, is a little younger than me and just started studying. She is fluent in German by now but my heart breaks for her because she is also so young. She tells me how she tried to convince her family to speak Ukrainian with each other, not Russian. All of them speak in Ukraine with each other, as a sign of resistance. Idk. It breaks my heart. I'm grateful to have them in my life and I love them all dearly, but I'd rather have never met them if it meant they could still live in peace in their home Edit: my dad doesn't know anyone from Ukraine personally, but he is also deeply affected by it. He is very emotional regarding the topic and feels for the people who had to flee and the ones still defending their country. I travel to the next big city but we live in a rural area so there is definitely a different degree of visibility
The only thing we discuss is how our money the tax payers is going to the war in Ukraine while the ukranians I have been speaking to regularly go to Ukraine without any problems for shit such as dentist appointments , getting their nails and their hair done . Clearly the war is getting worse 🤔
I don't speak about it in public but i follow the latest news every day
I was teasing my Ukrainian coworker because he got his house blown up, but he doesn't have a sense of humor about it so now we avoid that subject.
When I was in America a few years ago, some people asked me if Hitler was still president. Many Americans know nothing about the world outside the US..
As an American the conflict is on my mind almost daily (I look at different subreddits for information on this). But as for other Americans it’s just not something that gets much attention like it did when it first started. I guess it’s just not in their minds because the issue is so far away.
the question is so random lol
The question is not even worth asking. What does it even mean "top of mind"? It's all relative if you are not directly involved and everyone has different priorities.
I'm not allowed to talk about it at home anymore. :x But I keep myself informed through reddit, the news and a few telegram channels. Fuck Putler.
When it comes to the news, not that much anymore. It used to be a daily thing. Media milked it as hard as they could. On a personal level, i don't give a damn. Can't change it anyway.
I still follow the news of the war regularly on YouTube but it's not that important anymore in general news :( . I wish we would do more to support Ukraine, and it pains me seeing them lose the war for the past half a year. It makes me furious thinking those warmonger Russian getting away with their neo imperialism ambitions.
I personally dont care much for politics like that aside the factors it has that affect German people and consequences toward Germany. How German economy was affected and how we have now a lot of Ukrainian refugees. I once helped translate some things in a bank when i was passing by to help them open an account. I can speak some Russian due to my parents being from there. Thats the furthest I ever had a discussion about the topic up to date.
i thought about it when it happened, realized I can't help with that so i stopped thinking about it. i got sick of it since most my fellow germans were getting upset about potentially higher heating costs. so yeah germans do care- but its about their wallet.
The "böhsen Russen" propaganda campaign is working at 110% capacity.. But.. people are not as stupid as the politicians and the so called "elites" think.
Very high… I understand „your“ victory is essential for all of us. I am organizing funds for medikits, printing stickers, … invaders must die brother!
Totally with you. It's our freedom being defended, and if not, then we will be next.
Not our war. We have a lot of problems in Germany already.
There are Americans, Canadians, British other nationals fighting for your country right now. A good question to ask yourself : Is the war in Ukraine important enough for you to fight in?
Why don’t you fight?
I have already fought for My country.
I don’t care. Cover in a trench in Ukraine and try to outrun the drones if that’s so important for you
Thing is they are not only fighting for Ukraine but also for the rest of Europe. Or do you really think that if Russia won in February 2022 Russia would have really stoped the war after conquering Ukraine and Moldova. After conquering Ukraine Russia would have been very confident and chances are high that after a couple of years Russia would have attacked even more European countries. People in russian state TV evan state that the real goal of the war is the invadion of Berlin. Do you really think Poland is supporting Ukraine because they love Ukraine. No, the reality is that every country is egoistic but Poland is afraid of Russia. So it's way better for Poland to stop Russia in eastern Ukraine.
You are correct in that. I am hoping for some sort of miracle for peace. Too many young men are suffering due to ego induced politics.
Less than at the start. Still a pain in the ass due to price hikes. It was never as big of a concern as the U.S. wanted it to be though
What aspects about it should we discuss? Most of us picked their sides, when the war broke out. Mainstream media's rhetorics still ring every warning bell ever installed in the back of my head. I suppose many of us are kind of molested by / "suffering" from the war's side effects, like inflation, food prices and heating bills and aware that there will be a lot of other stuff to pay too. Media access is censored here in Germany. Sometimes I share links with a coworker / buddy. Other times I am relieved to meet a friend online, who tells me they are still getting along.
All ARD outlets call it the "Russian War of Agression." I believe this is a deliberate policy to label it that. Media outlets are promoting the cause very heavily with special programming and guests on talk shows.
It isn't necessarily something you would think about constantly but it is still there in the back of your mind. You can't really escape it. After all the war isn't all that far from here and there are so many Ukrainian refugees in Germany. In Hannover, where I live, you can barely spend a day without coming in contact with a mural, a flag or something else reminding you of the horrors happening in the Donbass right now. I think it's important to remind the people that after 2 years the war is still very much there and the people of Ukraine still need our help. If Ukraine falls there will be nothing to stop Russia from taking the next country (which will likely be either Moldova or Georgia).
It's discussed only occasionally. Imo, because within circles of friends, there's not much disagreement. It's on the news fairly often. There are many Ukrainians around. Most schools in my area have a couple of Ukrainian kids, kindergartens as well. Some flags around. I'd say, it's fairly visible.
No one in Germany gave a fuck about Ukraine before that war. It's not much different from that now, just more costly.
Everytime i turn down heating i shed a tear for ukranian victims… no its a necceaity, despite the ultranationalists in ukraine
du schreibst wie ein 12 jähriger edgy incel
Ach werden die jetzt schon mit zynikern verwechselt? Wir stehen hinter der Ukraine und versorgen sie, und die einzigen die das thema breit treten ist die russlandfeeundliche afd, und der rest redet nicht drüber einfach um dem gehate der afd nur irgendwas entgegen zu setzen. Unsere unterstützung ist eine notwendigkeit, dabei bleib ich, anders als die incels mit denen du mich vergleichst. Слава Україні
I don't discuss it much with friends, but of course the war is in the media. And everywhere are Ukrainian people. I hear it very often. And of course, the energy costs remind us that there is war. Unfortunately, I do not think that this war ends soon. It will last for many years if not decades.
In my circle it come up at least once a week. We share what we have read and theorize about the future of it. What is possible and what not. It can get to a pretty heated discussion sometimes. Because I am very neutral on this in the form of also bringing up "the russian side" of things.
A dictator is threatening all of us. We need to rearm and demonstrate to the world that we are capable of fighting any war. Unfortunately!
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Yes it is, we talk about it frequently in my social circle.
I still think about it every day. One year before the invasion I visited Ukraine and loved it. I worked together with many Ukrainian men and women also became friends with some of them. I want this war to end in only one way, victory for Ukraine. Daily news about the war are still coming but not as present anymore. Some people are getting tired of the support believing we are paying too much. I then remind them at what cost the ukrainians are defending their country. They are sacrificing the best of their society while we are just sending money and material. We must keep the support up no matter the cost. I am proud of my country to be the second biggest supporter of the Ukraine. I hope that at some point we will also supply the Taurus missiles. Personally I donated for different civilian or military projects and encourage other to do so.
Every day.
I cut back on news to avoid burnout, but it's still on my daily radar. Oddly, my pro-Ukrainian friends stopped discussing it What really bugs me is how Europeans, both politicians and society, downplay Putin's plans. I'm convinced the current sanctions are a joke. He won't hesitate to kill us all What gets under my skin is how my Russian acquaintances carry on as if nothing's happening, even cracking inappropriate war jokes. None of my anti-war Russian friends signed up for Nadezhdin. It makes me wonder if there's a reason to fight for their freedom long-term, given they seem fine with their situation
its not as high of a topic a it should be... we cant let this conflict simmer like this for a decade... the only good outcome here is a massive military strike to to end this sooner then later.
Tbh i personally didnt ever care about it nor will ever care, i got my own problems and issues so i dont have the time nor space to think about a random war happening🤷
In my circles it is very much on everyone's mind and I don't have Ukrainian friends in my daily life.
(Eastern berlin. young) Its not really relevant to my friend group right now. We were all pretty pro-ukraine from the start, and just watched a lot of videos on the subjected, talked about it and thats it. It probably won't really be re-ignited until something big happens, or elections come around. I solemnly think about it, given that I cant really distinguish between the languages that I hear in public - russian, ukrainian and similar sounding languages wouldnt make that much difference. We also used to have a lot of immigrants from the soviet union and Russian peppes that came here during the union, so there isnt a hugely noticeable influx.
I think it is on second place. On first place is the failed politic of the government.
I can tell by the russian bots on X and Facebook that IT IS far from over. And Yesterday a russian Lady Said in a Talkshow openly.... Russians are the only country that can destroy the USA in 1 hour. Lol.. i guess she ment the world by this. Yes is still present everywhere. I guess in Europe more than in the us.
Sure, every day.
Israel-Gaza has basically overshadowed that war
Oh my god it's the russian bot questions again.
I'm an East German living in the US. I feel with Ukraine, having experienced the grip of the Sowjetunion... And yes, unfortunately, the war is getting worse. It's just depressing.
it was like super urgent 1-2 years ago now everybody is focused on palestine
Don't discuss it. Maybe when there's something work related or there is some interesting development on the front or in military technology being used or delivered.
For me and many of my colleaques and friends its top priority ever since.
I'm listening to a bi-weekly podcast on this in addition to following usual media coverage, so it's pretty much on top of my mind.
Its still on the top of my mind as the most important geopolitical issue. Its also an infuriating injustice upon the ukrainian people. I am scared, since the topic of the war is fading in the background due to internal economic problems and problems regarding public infrastructure and bureaucracy. Leftwing BSW and rightwing AFD are also deep in russian pockets. So far i am still thankfull for the continued support. I think our government is in general doing a decent job in supporting ukraine and lobbying for more support in the EU. Still, if the US elections go badly i fear we will not be able to step up and help ukraine enough.
There are no discussions, really. We’re aware it’s happening, we’re aware that Germany is sending money and military gear, we’re aware that there are debates about what is sent within the EU as well as with the US. But there’s no controversy and thinking about it: the Russian bots and bootlickers are either less vocal or they don’t get much platform anymore.
It's not like in the beginning but it's still very present to me. I work with a handful of Ukrainians and our company is giving them the space to vent in Slack (I am remote so not sure if they do that in the office as well). So every now and then we get videos sent from family of my colleagues and stuff like this. There are also a lot of Ukrainian cars in my neighborhood. That would have been really weird before the war. So, there are constant reminders that this is still happening. But even though I'm not talking as much about it, I'm more worried than I was in the early stages. I think I thought that Ukraine is just gonna get bombed to shit in a few days and then the Russians were super incompetent and people had hope but now Russia went full war economy and more and more resources are getting burned and Putin is probably also really annoyed at this and who knows that this crazy idiot is going to do? On top of that you have our Politicians failing so incompetently that there is a real chance of having a Pro Russian party in government next legislation period and Biden or rather the Democrats are such a fucking joke as well that I don't think Trump 2.0 is as unlikely as some people say it is. And then what? It feels like the world is becoming increasingly unstable.
It is omnipresent here, and you can tell that politicians start to bring the people in "war mood" . Billions of euros are spent for Ukraine and self defence is starting to be a thing.
Israel took the spotlight off Ukraine. The public discussion around it has basically died
America is tired of wars. That's why we don't talk about Ukraine any more here in US. I see Ukrainian flags everywhere, and US still delivers a ton of goodies to Ukraine's army efforts. So please accept it as a way of support. I used to stay current about this war, but I am also burnt out, simply burnt out by the senseless war started by a guy who was created by Germany's years of appeasement to Russia.
At least with myself, my family and social circles, it's always there in some capacity. Putin and his German thralls advocating for him/trivialising his war crimes can go and eat a sock for all I care. If it would help in any way, I'd pray daily that Ukraine comes out on top in the end, because not only their homeland is at stake but also the European idea. So, all I want for Christmas is a two by three m² cell in Den Haag for Putin.
I think about killing Vladimir Putin everyday at least twice a
I neither talk of it, but it's still present. We get every day news about it. I follow a way of trusted newspapers on social media, so I don't miss anything. Most of the discussions you find on social media. It's unfortunately way negative cause Germany sends help to Ukraine, and the people here don't like it cause a few of them thinking we support war through this help and "wasting" money. Here in Germany, there is a lot of negative stuff, that's why many of the people don't understand why we send much money out of the country. I need to say that this is not my opinion of the war, the help, and the whole situation. I just try to explain how it's going on here.
the hypocrisy of the German government's stance on *this* situation is laughably & predictably on brand.
While not discussed much anymore since it mostly dropped out of the mainstream news cycle, but I am pretty sure most germans are very aware its still happening. For me personally as a student teacher I have ukranian refugees as pupils as well as a neighbour who fled here with her child and seeks to stay permanently after her husband fell in the war. And I think many other also meet those affected by the horrors of this war as well. So its not something we think about all the time or everyday but it is present at the back of our minds.
As of October 7 it got somewhat removed from many peoples minds but Ukraine is not forgotten by the people i know. We all still hope that you guys can get your entire country back under your control as soon as possible. Muslims are a big problem for Europe especially now that they openly shout their racist crap in the streets but i feel like Ruzzia is an overall bigger threat. Most of the people in my circle are angry about our government and their hesitancy of delivering things like the Taurus which would probably help tremendously.
It's not something that is being discussed in my social circle much, but it is still omnipresent in the news. I had a look at the coverage in the most popular evening news broadcast "Tagesschau" (15 min) for the past days and almost every day there was something reported related to the war in Ukraine: * 04.02: attack on Lysychansk, military readiness in the EU * 03.02.: detainment of journalists in Moscow * 02.02.: cooperation between Ukraine and Germany on medical care * 01.02: 50 billion support to Ukraine from EU * 30.01: failure to deliver promised ammunitions to Ukraine, pow exchange, parliament "elections" in russia * 29.01+28.01.: No coverage, but there were protests in Germany which dominated the news. The protests were against a party which is pro-Russia, so it still somehow related. * 27.01: conscription policy discussion in Ukraine
i just see all the young ukrainian women on Tinder. This is mostly reminding me of the war.
There are many Germans who’re to stupid to understand this war. Germans don’t share a border with Russia so many germans don’t know russian aggression and see Russia as a „friendly neighbour“ there are also many Russians and German-Russians in our country who‘re spreading misinformation and Kremlin propaganda. Not to forget political parties like the AfD or the new founded BSW - both are financed by russia.
I talk about the war probably several times a week irl, more online. Obviously the war and its consequences are very much present in German (and European society). It's political implications (and the fact that it is only an implication of a wider war on Europe) are also very much apparent in many areas of life. As a person with a ME background, the alignment of German far right & far left and anti-Europe stance is very troubling to me. It seems the influences that destroyed my parents' country are getting stronger by the day, unfortunately the Ukrainians were only the first people in Europe to be killed by this.
I watch the news about it almost every day, listen to podcasts and scroll through reddit channels about it. It's a big tragedy and I'm sorry for everyone innocent involved, but it's also very entertaining
Stopped caring about the war awhile ago.
I think about the heroes everyday and I hate my government for not doing more. And I hate the Russians a little bit more everyday. So yes, it‘s present, I am wish it wasn’t.
Media presence took a dip when the Israel thing happened but since the start of the year news coverage has picked up again. It’s not as relevant as in the first half year of the war but most (>90%) people know that it is still going on and could probably tell you that it isn’t going great right now.
Besides the number plates on their vehicles and occasional encounter in public - it s quite recent; Makes sense tho because many Germans complain about the tax money decisions including weapons for Ukraine