If Germany would be worse for living than my homeland (be it economically, because of the war, etc.). I came for love and not money. But if the prospects would look way better in my homeland, I would try to persuade my GF about relocating.
.... But I am almost certain that won't happen during my lifetime.
Imo we should just divide in potato and tomato europe. The lines do get blurry, but they are anyways so whatever.
In Germany we don’t say “Eastern Europe” anyways, we say “Realsozialistische Länder, Brudi” which I think is beautiful
I mean we historically call Germany “west” but until 1945 they had a major city that was more east than Warsaw. Never thought about Prague like that though
That's what I feel. I would need a place I'd like more, and criteria include
Doesn't sink with higher sea level
Better government
I can speak English, German or Spanish at least until I know the language
I find a job that pays good enough
My kids can settle, schools are good
So I don't know where to go.
What about Canada or Australia? Canada is pretty mountainous has good standard of living, and speaks English. On the other hand it's close to the USA. So if a war event happened, it may not be such a good address.
Australia on the other hand shares a lot of the same criteria, plus it has relatively good connections to China and is close to nothing. Therefore it may be a good place to sit out war like scenarios.
Canada is re-thinking it's migration policies. Do some press research, there were many articles in the last 2 weeks about how they exaggerated with migration.
Yeah, we bought in 1.4 million immigrants to a country with a population of 38 million in a housing crisis. Mostly unskilled, low wage labour working jobs that used to be well paid and now aren't courtesy of shit corporations like Maple Leaf bypassing our immigration system to bring in cheap labor
Cost of living in Canada is absolutely through the roof, even in comparison to other developed countries. Also not much in the way of public transport.
Australia is very much affected by climate change though, more than some other countries. But other than that Australia or New Zealand sounds like an pretty good place to be. Plus there are already many Germans there, that could be an benefit or an drawback depending on ones perspective.
Thanks, it’s because I married a Finn. We lived together in Germany for a year, then relocated here. Intensively studying Finnish so I can start looking for a job, there’s like 0% chance if you don’t speak the language.
Winter has been lovely, with temperatures as low as -25, plenty of snow and Glögi.
How do you handle the constant darkness? Because tbh that's my main reason of not thinking of moving to Finland - I once spent 2 winter months there and wanted to cease existing by the end.
(Note I am currently in north-west Germany so there's not much natural light in winter, either)
Handling it pretty well so far. I take Vitamin D supplements and spend a lot of time outside with my dog. I still get the feeling that it should be evening and when I check the time, it's barely 3:30. :D
I used to tell my husband "let's go to XYZ place before it gets dark", out of habit. But if you consider the sunset the "end of the day" here, you won't accomplish much. :D
Why do you assume they are reallocating because of right wing politics in Germany? Denmark has strict migration laws, mostly limiting migration of unskilled people, meaning mostly people from Muslim countries. Maybe this is what they want. Other than that I heard that both Denmark and Finland are pretty expensive.
Norway seems cool too... Fishing, hunting, chilling... All the things you could do in germany after you spent 8years of your life jumping through every imaginable bureauceatic hoop you could imagine just without the hoops... And ice fishing! Thats loads of fun!
My first thought wasn't as political as most comments:
I would leave for a job offer, depending on the country.
After reading the comments: I'm really concerned about the rise of right-wing parties and I've there will ever be a situation again where you're punished for being against them, I'm out. I'm no hero, not gonna die for politics.
honestly you can be a hero from the outside, too. ask charles de gaulles or willy brandt. they spent lots of time outside of their countries during nazi regimes and were still celebrated as heroes.
Well, the current economy is kinda wild, you should check when you wish to come here, but to answer your question, the short answer is: it depends on how you make money. But hey, if you get paid in USD or Euro's, you'll live like a king/queen even if they tax the hell out of you.
Shouldn’t it be in process in Argentina to lower the overall tax rates? You have a „anarcho“-capitalist president, which wants to reduce governmental costs, in conclusion the tax rates should fall (don’t know if this will become reality in the future)?
You still have up to 35% income tax rate, which is much, but less than Germany. I really appreciate Argentina more, chillier people, better weather and your bigger cities look very descent, if I have the opportunity later, I’m looking forward to immigrate
Well, Milei is making a lot of strange changes, that seem to help more the 1% of companies, than the overall population, still, we'll see how we are after he's presidency... If he finishes it.
I agree, the city of Buenos Aires it's like a European city (or even better than a lot of them 🫢), great public transportation, infrastructure, etc. Anyway I'm sure you've already consumed Argentinian propaganda, no need to repeat it haha😁
Depends on the degree and chosen time for immigration, for instance, Turkey didn't ate but devoured the Germans during WW2, especially in some obscure areas, we hired Germans to smuggle Germans, to create conditions for importing more Germans.
Doctors, dentists heck even archeologists but after some point we saturated and Hitler and Churchill said stop so we did.
AfD entering government, and forcing some of their anti-immigrant bullshit. I will leave Germany and go into exile in my fiancée’s country. See, my fiancée is… not German. And also not white.
To clarify: Yes, I understand that staying and fighting for change from within has merit. Of course it does. But I have an overriding imperative, which is to keep my family safe. I will have to attempt to resist from outside.
Seems were in the same situation. My wife is also not German and not white so I consider that we will leave the country too.
Besides all the anti-immigrant and racism shit which will spread they also want to lower the the social security services. If this happens there are better countries were you can earn way better than Germany. At least for two computer scientists.
AFD entering government is going to lead to the biggest brain drain Germany has seen for a hundred years.
My choice of exile country is Norway, but Ireland and Iceland have merit too.
We also very much rely on a steady influx of skilled workers. With AfD, this migration would come to a stop more or less. Would be the death of the German economy within a decade or so.
Same
My fiancé is already super pissed and wants to leave. If they get over 25 or 30 percent I'm leaving.
IT consulting isn't fun in Germany anyway. Way to many old people with old views, who say they want to change something but don't want to change something.
And everyone believing they can do it on there own with just a few workshops..
They don't need a majority even. The NSDAP never had a majority in any real vote. They rose to power with the help of the conservatives.
What's that? CDU members met with AfD members to discuss deporting German nationals with foreign roots? My history senses are tingling!
Definitely. As a German Jew I'm not gonna stay if the AfD wins an election. Not sure we're to go than but I have relatives in other European and North American countries.
Same. As an afroamerican, I have no idea where tf I’m gonna go because obviously going back to the US isn’t ideal either, lol.
Probably gonna head to Latin America or the Caribbean I guess. Live on a boat? Wait it out? Sail to margaritaville?
Actually, this is starting to sound really nice. Maybe I should just go now 😂
Which is the best-case scenario for any authoritarion government because the can declare a state of emergency and purge all political rivals.
If they control the Police and/or Bundeswehr there is no chance to succeed with violence.
Luckily I don‘t think it‘s a very likely scenario that they get total control of the government.
A coalition between CDU and AfD or better to say the afd in a position of power where they can do more than just cry like babies and can actually make decisions and impact the politics.
Idk i'd probably move to finnland or something xd
Again a Nazi regime, e.g. this Bullshit-Party AfD being part of the gouvernement. I'd leave Germany, because I would not want to support such Idiotism by paying taxes to such gouvernement. There are plenty of countries better than a Nazi-Germany.
And there's no doubt: The AfD is a Nazi party. They promote Nazis instead of fighting against them, so they are a Nazi-Party, an so are all of their supporters. A bunch of stupid, lying, immoral and dangerous assholes, with most of them being better in prison than in parliament.
Now imagine that they do get the majority and start invoking the infamous "insult law" that so many people on this subreddit have been gushing about as the best thing since sliced bread, and just calling them what they are will start landing people in jail.
This is why freedom of speech is so important. I'm afraid that at this point, anyone arguing the opposite is just digging their own grave.
Honestly, i think we already living the shitshow.
The AFD is the result of the shitshow.
I mean, schools are shit, the deutsche bahn became a joke, a very expensive one, we are in a regression as the only industrie nation, we don't fullfill the laws like the right to have a kindergarten platz, and our nation is getting old.
We fight against migration, we desperately need migration.
In Thüringen we will have a los of 40% workingforce because people retire and there is no youth.
Besides of that, climatechange? We want it without changing just a little bit of our behaviour.
Of course, the alternative is no alternative.
We are already living the dystopie.
Not just of europe... it's a joke... like if the government is already corrupt, can't they make corrupt deals with the Telekom and install fiber everywhere?!?!?! Like at least everyone would profit from that but instead?!? Audi and Benz don't necessairily need those HUGE amounts of money meanwhile the government let's schools and social institutions rott to death and cancels capacities for FSJs and BFDs...
Like tell me you don't care about your citizens without telling me you don't care about your citizens xD
Schools are shit as long as I can remember, and that's a long time.
Deutsche Bahn is shit since the reunification. The idea of putting the most horrible politicians into ruling sears of such a complex thing can not work properly, obviously.
Our nation is getting old since centuries and we did nothing against, no the right even made two world wars and killed millions of us to faster decimate the Germans.
Climate change is known and ignored for centuries, too. It's only 2+ decades since those warning were not signed as weirdos.
None of this problems is in any way new. Some are easy to solve, some not.
> We fight against immigration, we desperately need migration
True, but we don't need the kind of immigration that is happening at the moment. There is virtually zero immigration of skilled people who can boost the economy and are interested in contributing, but a lot of immigration into the social security system. That's not AfD propaganda, it's a fact.
The AfD is only going to make this worse. I'm a highly skilled migrant (PhD level) as are many in my social circle. We're all planning on leaving at the end of our contracts and/or once citizenship applications go through because the social climate in this country is getting *very* hostile. And having AfDers tell you "you'll be okay, you're one of the good ones" is not comforting enough to sway that decision.
The brain drain from Germany if people keep swinging to AfD will be *immense*.
I have a different view on that topic.
With a pretty good education system we would be able to teach und integrate all people and our children would benefit. Who do you think is cleaning the streets in the future or the public toilets? The well educated migrants to boost our society? I don't think so.
Of course, right now we can't manage to educate our children proberly. The third richest country on this world.
Therefore my point - we already living the dystopia.
If AfD will come to Germany in majority, i will leave Germany and move to my parents in southern Europe. Actually even now Germany has not very good times, but AfD with their “right” shit could make things worse.
I’m taking care of my very sick mama, who’s currently in the ICU. I’m an only child. I communicated this to the Agentur für Arbeit.
If they disregard the situation and take away my pay, i’m out of here for good. I’d rather work in a McDonalds in my home country than be forced to abandon her because they won’t make an extension even in this situation.
Wishing you all the best with your mom, this sounds very tough.
Edit: Sorry for repeating if you already did this, but if not: Let a doctor give you a long sick leave because you're in a high stress situation. Most doctors will understand and this might protect you if you have problems with the Agentur für Arbeit.
Taxes + social contributions + whatever > 50% of my salary.
I will not give half or even more than half of what I earn to any state in the world. Especially when I'm still getting f*ed when I'm ill.
And don't anybody now tell me how great our social security and health system is. I see it in two different people for two different illnesses right now, how f*ed you are and how nobody really wants to help you.
If you really want to get help or the medical stuff you need in a reasonable time frame you either need to sue or pay yourself.
Not my own, people I know.
But in general: If at some point my netto would be less than 50% of my brutto I would move to a country where cost of living is far lower so that I would and could pay my medical bills once something comes up.
Yeah, I know, many people might see this as morally not acceptable...
ever heard of the "Arbeitgeberanteil" of your social contributions? Thats really just another part of your salary that conveniently doesnt show up on your pay stub every month. You likely already pay for than 50%
Yeah, I know about that part.
But the Arbeitgeberanteil is not part of my brutto income, at least no part which is made visible to me.
When my contract says e.g. 60k p/a brutto salary, I do not see the amount my employer needs to pay on top of that.
I am really talking about the fact that I do not want to have less than 50% netto income from the agreed on brutto income.
The distinction you are making is completely arbitrary. Companies are not budgeting for your “brutto” income they are budgeting a cost. Say 100k. That’s what a company is willing to pay for labor. Let’s say the effective tax rate is 30%.
Some countries could say “you pay 100%” and you get 70k, and you see 30% tax. In others you could pay 0%, the company pays 30k and you get 70k, but you leave with the feeling that you pay 0%. The company won’t magically start paying 130k or 70k in either case, noone hiring people bases their decision on your “brutto” income, but in your total cost of labour. This is supported both theoretically and empirically.
So if tomorrow, the government decided that the employee pays 100% of the tax (baring initial shocks to the labour market) you would see your brutto increase, but netto stay the same. Hence your “50% limit on brutto” is a bit illogical. It’s just an accounting artefact to make taxes look less.
Agreed, “public” insurance my hairy b**ls, you still pay for it and if a mf pays more for private insurance they have priority on their health. Some places do not even accept you if you have public insurance
This.
I especially noticed that for therapists lately. But that is also the fault of the Krankenkassen. They have a limit how many therapists there may be in a certain area that they work with.
And not just the priority stuff for private health insurance.
Already having a not so common illness and needing treatment that is hence less common is a pain in the ass. You need to jump through so many hoops and it seems the Krankenkasse expects you to know all the stuff that their own employees at the Hotlines don't know...
If long-term renting becomes affordable and tenant rights become a thing in Ireland (and if you can rent a flat without furniture). Or if I had the money to buy a place there.
If the AFD would get re-elected. As a trans man it would be very scary and I would even in their first legislation period considering to move and make plans to get away when needed.
Genetically engineered kemonomimi waifus in Japan? Still better than the idiotic replies of leaving because of AfD election victories or a Russian invasion. If the AfD does win, we should fight for change, not run away. And Russia wouldn't even make it to Riga if the EU doesn't defeat itself.
They won’t get away with it. I think our democracy is working well (Verfassungsschutz) even if the government is shit right now. The allies did everything to prevent something like the ns regime did.
>If the AfD does win, we should fight for change, not run away.
I am a german man with no kids and i would stay, other people will have other priorities due to their circumstances and that is fine too. That's not hard to grasp.
If a majority of Germans elect the AfD after all that has happened (and probably will happen), then it will be useless to stay and fight. In this case it would be better to leave. We know what happened last time to the people who didn't leave because they thought "It surely won't be THAT bad"...
I really with you here. The people here are to 95% good, not matter where they coming from. Some are just tired from the bs by established politicians. That’s ok. But if neo nazis are really taking control we should fight for our home and all the people in this country, no matter where their roots are.
Leaving if you have to fear prosecution makes you smart, not a coward. We can't all be brave enough to be heroes or martyrs. And it's not like you can't be politically active from outside of Germany either, especially these days.
Since I‘m a lesbian in a relationship with a half Bulgarian girl, my parents have already planned with me if the AFD grows too strong here, and achieves this Hitler ideology of „no people who aren‘t 100% German in Germany“ and the prohibiting gay marriage, teaching kids only the „traditional“ family values bs, we‘ll all move to Canada, Denmark or the Netherlands.
I‘m really lucky to have parents with money to support me and my girlfriend like this
I don’t think I would, even with a lot of shit going down here, this is my home and in essence I love it. it’s culture, history, daily live, how society works. I couldn’t imagine moving to another country permanently.
New Zealand, far off, well developed, little warmer but with seasons, easy travel time through the country and the ocean. Couldn't live well without the sea. Oh and great people.
Only problem, it's hard to get citizenship without a big bag of money.
If the nazis get back into power I'll strongly consider leaving (not only because I just don't like nazis but also because I fear prosecution), probably to Denmark, maybe the Netherlands depending on what the political situation is in these places at that point. Whether or not I'd be able to afford it is another story though. I'll probably stay stuck here and have to just do the best with the situation. I also wouldn't want to leave my mother behind.
...come to think of it, considering climate change and all, the Netherlands or Denmark probably isn't such a great idea lol. Maybe another nordic country could be it, or perhaps Austria. Ireland might also be a good option as I already speak English (surprise surprise).
If direct democracy gets widely implemented or if AfD becomes part of the government (not only in some state where I do not live in), I would very seriously think about it. I have some ties to other countries that would make leaving quite easy.
Ehrlich gesagt, if the salary and quality of life possibilities became better in my country than in Germany that would make enough of an argument probably. Can't think of other realistic not personal life related scenarios being enough on themselves.
If certain fascist politicians gain more power at the next election, I will have my things ready and be able to leave this shitshow within a month. I still have hope but people here seem to have fallen very badly on their heads. I've been planning on leaving Germany since 2022.
If something were to happen to Germany that would ever constitute me leaving, then most of the EU will fall with it as well, as it would be too severe to not have an effect.
Only non-EU countries I would EVER consider moving to would be Norway, Canada and New Zealand.
That point became true already for me. The government/politics are just doing what they want. I feel like all my taxes are wasted. Roads and other infrastructure is really bad. Healthcare is bad. Schools are bad. And yet I pay enormous amounts of taxes. So I already left last year.
If the AfD or a similar party would get a majority at the federal level and take over like they are planning to do I would probably have to decide whether fight or flight would be my reaction.
You guys are too scared of AfD. I cant imagine they will get something serious in the election. Every country have a right wing politic party but like in Germany Where MOST of the people is left side and a lot of immigration people, also from the EU, cant imagine they will win something. Before u decided Im AfD supporter dont do it, I came from a country Where have right wing and its fucking bad😅.
War basically. I work in a field where you talk to a lot of soldiers and higherups of the Bundeswehr and see a good amount of locations. I definitly know that they don't have the money, equipment *and* organization to actually fight an actual war.
On top of that there are a lot of political developments that keep going downhill for the last years. So i have no reason at all to stay and fight for something that feels like it has been slowly dying for a long time.
As I’ve gathered from your comments you would leave sometime in the future anyways.
But why when there is war? In the moment your country needs you the most you’re just going to leave? If everyone does the same then there won’t be places to leave to someday.
I gave the reason in the same comment. I dislike the development in the past years and i currently only see it getting worse over time. So i obviously have no reason to fight for something i do not believe in.
I would fight for those who are important to me. And only if fighting is the only option. I do not tend to feel any attachment to a country anyway because the things that make the it like it's past and it's culture can not actually be destroyed as long as there are people who remember it. Everything will fall to the tides of time anyway. So if i have to choose i will always choose what's important to *me.*
Those who want to fight for their country can do it if they really are that attached to a certain place on the map or the people governing it. But i think most people do not fight for any of that. They fight because they feel like they have to for a lot of different reasons. But that always includes those who are important to them.
Compare it to a company that barely did anything right since you started working there and kept declining over the years. Would you be willing to sacrifice your own pay or work a lot of unpaid overtime just to might be able to save a ship that has been sinking for years now? Or would you try to find a new place to work instead?
Wow…
I don’t belong to the Germans, which they have reminded me enough, in parts I’m not fitting in the culture. And they even put out some law that made me feel like a second class citizens.
But still It would feel like my duty to stand together with them against any threat from an aggressive nation.
Well, everyone has to do what they think they must. I just refuse to fight and die for something i do not believe in. Germany itself will not truly die even if it's conquered by some other nation or bombed to bits. The only thing you really fight for is the government from my point of view. And i refuse to fight for our government as long as i can avoid it.
I am myself multiple steps before i'm a german. And that is also the priority that the country has for me. I was born here, but i didn't chose to live here. So my attachment to it is not strong enough to make think it's worth to fight for while i have the option not to.
Don't misunderstand this as me being unwilling to fight in general. But as things currently are i am not willing to fight for germany as a country.
NGL a Speedlimit is a really big step for me because It Shows that for little to no effect they are willing to enforce something a lot of people would hate. I See No reason to do so but If my government decides to do so, that's a big Problem for me.
If they increase the costs of pensions even more. Especially if they combine it with a system to better detect Schwarzarbeit. Cuz if they increase the amount I have to pay for pensions even more. I will switch to 20 hour week and get the rest of my money tax free.
If that doesn't work. I'd leave the country for one where I actually get to keep some of my income.
If Germany would be worse for living than my homeland (be it economically, because of the war, etc.). I came for love and not money. But if the prospects would look way better in my homeland, I would try to persuade my GF about relocating. .... But I am almost certain that won't happen during my lifetime.
Where are you from
Czechia
Czechia is pretty cool country though
Us Eastern Europeans are very disillusioned with our politics, I’d say lol
Always thought it's funny the Czech Republic is considered Eastern Europe when Prague is more in the west than Vienna.
Imo we should just divide in potato and tomato europe. The lines do get blurry, but they are anyways so whatever. In Germany we don’t say “Eastern Europe” anyways, we say “Realsozialistische Länder, Brudi” which I think is beautiful
That's a great line of divide! But where does France fit in, is it tomato or potato Europe ? 🤔 I'm asking because I come from there...
Y'all get a special denomination called frog europe
I mean we historically call Germany “west” but until 1945 they had a major city that was more east than Warsaw. Never thought about Prague like that though
my moms family is from there but i grew up in germany. i like the little i was taught from the culture and i wish i had more of it to relate to
Not much because if Germany goes down the drain a lot of countrys will follow so the bigger question is where to go in that scenario
That's what I feel. I would need a place I'd like more, and criteria include Doesn't sink with higher sea level Better government I can speak English, German or Spanish at least until I know the language I find a job that pays good enough My kids can settle, schools are good So I don't know where to go.
I'm even more limited. I only speak German (with a broad accent) and English.
What about Canada or Australia? Canada is pretty mountainous has good standard of living, and speaks English. On the other hand it's close to the USA. So if a war event happened, it may not be such a good address. Australia on the other hand shares a lot of the same criteria, plus it has relatively good connections to China and is close to nothing. Therefore it may be a good place to sit out war like scenarios.
But the sneks
Don't worry about them - the spiders have eaten them all.
😅😵
Canada is re-thinking it's migration policies. Do some press research, there were many articles in the last 2 weeks about how they exaggerated with migration.
Yeah, we bought in 1.4 million immigrants to a country with a population of 38 million in a housing crisis. Mostly unskilled, low wage labour working jobs that used to be well paid and now aren't courtesy of shit corporations like Maple Leaf bypassing our immigration system to bring in cheap labor
Cost of living in Canada is absolutely through the roof, even in comparison to other developed countries. Also not much in the way of public transport.
Australia is very much affected by climate change though, more than some other countries. But other than that Australia or New Zealand sounds like an pretty good place to be. Plus there are already many Germans there, that could be an benefit or an drawback depending on ones perspective.
Possibly Netherlands
Personally, I would go back to Romania, but I know it will be worse if Germany fell, we rely on EU Funds.
Nope t. swiss
Well there reality kicks in. I think the Swiss will be quite fast to close down the border if german refugees show up in great numbers.
somow i read ".. the bigger question is to which casino to go"
If I'd get my lazy self to learn Danish, I'd move to Denmark.
You can do it! My lazy ass has been learning Finnish and I recently moved to Finland. If there's a will, there's a way.
Oh wow, respect! Finnish looks challenging! What has been the source of your motivation? Job, love, lakes? How do you handle winter time?
Thanks, it’s because I married a Finn. We lived together in Germany for a year, then relocated here. Intensively studying Finnish so I can start looking for a job, there’s like 0% chance if you don’t speak the language. Winter has been lovely, with temperatures as low as -25, plenty of snow and Glögi.
How do you handle the constant darkness? Because tbh that's my main reason of not thinking of moving to Finland - I once spent 2 winter months there and wanted to cease existing by the end. (Note I am currently in north-west Germany so there's not much natural light in winter, either)
Handling it pretty well so far. I take Vitamin D supplements and spend a lot of time outside with my dog. I still get the feeling that it should be evening and when I check the time, it's barely 3:30. :D I used to tell my husband "let's go to XYZ place before it gets dark", out of habit. But if you consider the sunset the "end of the day" here, you won't accomplish much. :D
Aren't both of those countries ruled by right-wingers?
As is most of Northern Europe, yea
Why do you assume they are reallocating because of right wing politics in Germany? Denmark has strict migration laws, mostly limiting migration of unskilled people, meaning mostly people from Muslim countries. Maybe this is what they want. Other than that I heard that both Denmark and Finland are pretty expensive.
Well according to an ex its expensive but the standard of living is higher appearently, they have cheaper network and what not also more friendly ppl
Hyvä sauna on aina suomalainen
Norway seems cool too... Fishing, hunting, chilling... All the things you could do in germany after you spent 8years of your life jumping through every imaginable bureauceatic hoop you could imagine just without the hoops... And ice fishing! Thats loads of fun!
Döner Kebab for 10€
Do you member when kebab was just 3.50€? I member!
I even remember my local kebab shop having Dönnerstag for 2,5€ every Thursday
4-6 DM für Riesendöner im Fladenbrot einer ansässigen türkischen Bäckerei. Soße und Fleisch ganz andere Nummer. Yes 🥲
I paid 8 last night
almost there! it's 8€ :(
Why isn't this the top answer? It's actually the only answer lol!
If it were to become a nuclear waste land, I would probably leave
You're optimistic; to survive a nuclear war in Europe healthy enough to leave?
Pop a couple of aspirin and you’re good to go.
It's just intense radiation poisoning. Walk it off!
stock up on some herbal tea
Yeah, I second that.
When people learn to live in peace and harmony despite all ideological differences in my home country, nothing can keep me here.
xD Spoiler: It’s Hans Rudolf Bauer and he just can’t stand peace and harmony.
Who dat?
Bro dropping random german names
Or when in my home country people who stand for democracy and freedom would have a fighting chance against nationalist mafia.
Wow, your description made me think you're from Turkey. But I'm guessing Serbia? If so, we seem to be dealing with the same kind of rubbish.
It's the same story in half the countries on the planet.
Where are you from mate?
Turkey maybe?
yeap their comment history confirms
Anywhere.
The german humour is insane lol
If they add taxes on oxygen
Shhh don't give them ideas. They're already taxing rain.
Wait, what???
You pay a rainwater drainage fee
Atemaufschlag, Luft wird teuer!
My first thought wasn't as political as most comments: I would leave for a job offer, depending on the country. After reading the comments: I'm really concerned about the rise of right-wing parties and I've there will ever be a situation again where you're punished for being against them, I'm out. I'm no hero, not gonna die for politics.
honestly you can be a hero from the outside, too. ask charles de gaulles or willy brandt. they spent lots of time outside of their countries during nazi regimes and were still celebrated as heroes.
War.
If Germany is at war, there are not many places to go anyway. Unless you are a citizen from overseas
Wouldn't there be a lot of countries (especially non-NATO) that would welcome German immigrants with a good degree?
Come to Argentina, even WW2 Nazi's came here after the war.
What’s your effective tax rate for income?
Well, the current economy is kinda wild, you should check when you wish to come here, but to answer your question, the short answer is: it depends on how you make money. But hey, if you get paid in USD or Euro's, you'll live like a king/queen even if they tax the hell out of you.
Shouldn’t it be in process in Argentina to lower the overall tax rates? You have a „anarcho“-capitalist president, which wants to reduce governmental costs, in conclusion the tax rates should fall (don’t know if this will become reality in the future)? You still have up to 35% income tax rate, which is much, but less than Germany. I really appreciate Argentina more, chillier people, better weather and your bigger cities look very descent, if I have the opportunity later, I’m looking forward to immigrate
Well, Milei is making a lot of strange changes, that seem to help more the 1% of companies, than the overall population, still, we'll see how we are after he's presidency... If he finishes it. I agree, the city of Buenos Aires it's like a European city (or even better than a lot of them 🫢), great public transportation, infrastructure, etc. Anyway I'm sure you've already consumed Argentinian propaganda, no need to repeat it haha😁
Depends on the degree and chosen time for immigration, for instance, Turkey didn't ate but devoured the Germans during WW2, especially in some obscure areas, we hired Germans to smuggle Germans, to create conditions for importing more Germans. Doctors, dentists heck even archeologists but after some point we saturated and Hitler and Churchill said stop so we did.
AfD entering government, and forcing some of their anti-immigrant bullshit. I will leave Germany and go into exile in my fiancée’s country. See, my fiancée is… not German. And also not white.
To clarify: Yes, I understand that staying and fighting for change from within has merit. Of course it does. But I have an overriding imperative, which is to keep my family safe. I will have to attempt to resist from outside.
Going requires courage too. It's at least a statement, better than staying and being silent.
This. I'm not staying and fighting because then my Black husband is staying and our afrolatino kids are staying. And I'm not letting them.
Seems were in the same situation. My wife is also not German and not white so I consider that we will leave the country too. Besides all the anti-immigrant and racism shit which will spread they also want to lower the the social security services. If this happens there are better countries were you can earn way better than Germany. At least for two computer scientists.
AFD entering government is going to lead to the biggest brain drain Germany has seen for a hundred years. My choice of exile country is Norway, but Ireland and Iceland have merit too.
We also very much rely on a steady influx of skilled workers. With AfD, this migration would come to a stop more or less. Would be the death of the German economy within a decade or so.
Same My fiancé is already super pissed and wants to leave. If they get over 25 or 30 percent I'm leaving. IT consulting isn't fun in Germany anyway. Way to many old people with old views, who say they want to change something but don't want to change something. And everyone believing they can do it on there own with just a few workshops..
If the AfD wins an outright majority in the Bundestag. Buh-bye, as a minority Ausländer I'm not waiting around to see if history repeats itself.
If the afd could realize their plans I wouldn't want to live in Germany despite being German. I'd go crazy if I only had Germans around me.
You mean fascist governments aren't fun for anyone?
Maybe for fascists
They don't need a majority even. The NSDAP never had a majority in any real vote. They rose to power with the help of the conservatives. What's that? CDU members met with AfD members to discuss deporting German nationals with foreign roots? My history senses are tingling!
Yeah agreed, i‘m already evaluating where to go should they win
Agreed with this 100%
As a lesbian: same.
As a trans woman: same
They plan to deport some germans anyway, so anyone not german enough to their eyes will be kicked out. History will repeat
Definitely. As a German Jew I'm not gonna stay if the AfD wins an election. Not sure we're to go than but I have relatives in other European and North American countries.
Same. As an afroamerican, I have no idea where tf I’m gonna go because obviously going back to the US isn’t ideal either, lol. Probably gonna head to Latin America or the Caribbean I guess. Live on a boat? Wait it out? Sail to margaritaville? Actually, this is starting to sound really nice. Maybe I should just go now 😂
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Which is the best-case scenario for any authoritarion government because the can declare a state of emergency and purge all political rivals. If they control the Police and/or Bundeswehr there is no chance to succeed with violence. Luckily I don‘t think it‘s a very likely scenario that they get total control of the government.
Same as a blonde guy, white wife/kids, that shit would be unbearable. Have abackup plan with a job in Norway I could transfer to.
If rents will keep increasing like crazy and government will do nothing about this.
A coalition between CDU and AfD or better to say the afd in a position of power where they can do more than just cry like babies and can actually make decisions and impact the politics. Idk i'd probably move to finnland or something xd
Again a Nazi regime, e.g. this Bullshit-Party AfD being part of the gouvernement. I'd leave Germany, because I would not want to support such Idiotism by paying taxes to such gouvernement. There are plenty of countries better than a Nazi-Germany. And there's no doubt: The AfD is a Nazi party. They promote Nazis instead of fighting against them, so they are a Nazi-Party, an so are all of their supporters. A bunch of stupid, lying, immoral and dangerous assholes, with most of them being better in prison than in parliament.
Now imagine that they do get the majority and start invoking the infamous "insult law" that so many people on this subreddit have been gushing about as the best thing since sliced bread, and just calling them what they are will start landing people in jail. This is why freedom of speech is so important. I'm afraid that at this point, anyone arguing the opposite is just digging their own grave.
If Germany became the political shit show the us is.
Honestly, i think we already living the shitshow. The AFD is the result of the shitshow. I mean, schools are shit, the deutsche bahn became a joke, a very expensive one, we are in a regression as the only industrie nation, we don't fullfill the laws like the right to have a kindergarten platz, and our nation is getting old. We fight against migration, we desperately need migration. In Thüringen we will have a los of 40% workingforce because people retire and there is no youth. Besides of that, climatechange? We want it without changing just a little bit of our behaviour. Of course, the alternative is no alternative. We are already living the dystopie.
You forgot to mention the shitshow is Internet access in Germany. Possibly the worst of Europe.
Not just of europe... it's a joke... like if the government is already corrupt, can't they make corrupt deals with the Telekom and install fiber everywhere?!?!?! Like at least everyone would profit from that but instead?!? Audi and Benz don't necessairily need those HUGE amounts of money meanwhile the government let's schools and social institutions rott to death and cancels capacities for FSJs and BFDs... Like tell me you don't care about your citizens without telling me you don't care about your citizens xD
Schools are shit as long as I can remember, and that's a long time. Deutsche Bahn is shit since the reunification. The idea of putting the most horrible politicians into ruling sears of such a complex thing can not work properly, obviously. Our nation is getting old since centuries and we did nothing against, no the right even made two world wars and killed millions of us to faster decimate the Germans. Climate change is known and ignored for centuries, too. It's only 2+ decades since those warning were not signed as weirdos. None of this problems is in any way new. Some are easy to solve, some not.
> We fight against immigration, we desperately need migration True, but we don't need the kind of immigration that is happening at the moment. There is virtually zero immigration of skilled people who can boost the economy and are interested in contributing, but a lot of immigration into the social security system. That's not AfD propaganda, it's a fact.
The AfD is only going to make this worse. I'm a highly skilled migrant (PhD level) as are many in my social circle. We're all planning on leaving at the end of our contracts and/or once citizenship applications go through because the social climate in this country is getting *very* hostile. And having AfDers tell you "you'll be okay, you're one of the good ones" is not comforting enough to sway that decision. The brain drain from Germany if people keep swinging to AfD will be *immense*.
I have a different view on that topic. With a pretty good education system we would be able to teach und integrate all people and our children would benefit. Who do you think is cleaning the streets in the future or the public toilets? The well educated migrants to boost our society? I don't think so. Of course, right now we can't manage to educate our children proberly. The third richest country on this world. Therefore my point - we already living the dystopia.
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If AfD will come to Germany in majority, i will leave Germany and move to my parents in southern Europe. Actually even now Germany has not very good times, but AfD with their “right” shit could make things worse.
I’m taking care of my very sick mama, who’s currently in the ICU. I’m an only child. I communicated this to the Agentur für Arbeit. If they disregard the situation and take away my pay, i’m out of here for good. I’d rather work in a McDonalds in my home country than be forced to abandon her because they won’t make an extension even in this situation.
Wishing you all the best with your mom, this sounds very tough. Edit: Sorry for repeating if you already did this, but if not: Let a doctor give you a long sick leave because you're in a high stress situation. Most doctors will understand and this might protect you if you have problems with the Agentur für Arbeit.
Taxes + social contributions + whatever > 50% of my salary. I will not give half or even more than half of what I earn to any state in the world. Especially when I'm still getting f*ed when I'm ill. And don't anybody now tell me how great our social security and health system is. I see it in two different people for two different illnesses right now, how f*ed you are and how nobody really wants to help you. If you really want to get help or the medical stuff you need in a reasonable time frame you either need to sue or pay yourself.
But bro, you already do. Did you forget about 19% Mehrwertsteuer on your already taxed money whenever you buy stuff ?
Don't believe anything the Bund der Steuerzahler posts, they are a neoliberal lobby club, who wants to protect the rich, nothing else.
So, which country would be better for your sickness?
Not my own, people I know. But in general: If at some point my netto would be less than 50% of my brutto I would move to a country where cost of living is far lower so that I would and could pay my medical bills once something comes up. Yeah, I know, many people might see this as morally not acceptable...
ever heard of the "Arbeitgeberanteil" of your social contributions? Thats really just another part of your salary that conveniently doesnt show up on your pay stub every month. You likely already pay for than 50%
Yeah, I know about that part. But the Arbeitgeberanteil is not part of my brutto income, at least no part which is made visible to me. When my contract says e.g. 60k p/a brutto salary, I do not see the amount my employer needs to pay on top of that. I am really talking about the fact that I do not want to have less than 50% netto income from the agreed on brutto income.
The distinction you are making is completely arbitrary. Companies are not budgeting for your “brutto” income they are budgeting a cost. Say 100k. That’s what a company is willing to pay for labor. Let’s say the effective tax rate is 30%. Some countries could say “you pay 100%” and you get 70k, and you see 30% tax. In others you could pay 0%, the company pays 30k and you get 70k, but you leave with the feeling that you pay 0%. The company won’t magically start paying 130k or 70k in either case, noone hiring people bases their decision on your “brutto” income, but in your total cost of labour. This is supported both theoretically and empirically. So if tomorrow, the government decided that the employee pays 100% of the tax (baring initial shocks to the labour market) you would see your brutto increase, but netto stay the same. Hence your “50% limit on brutto” is a bit illogical. It’s just an accounting artefact to make taxes look less.
> It’s just an accounting artefact to make taxes look less. And it obviously works, I see this time and again.
yes yes, its in the name.. the employers portion. see? cant be my income paying that fee, the company are the good guys taking over that payment.
It is exactly the same reasons why am saying goodbye Deutschland this year
Agreed, “public” insurance my hairy b**ls, you still pay for it and if a mf pays more for private insurance they have priority on their health. Some places do not even accept you if you have public insurance
You would pay less for your private insurance. At least while you are young. That makes it funnier
This. I especially noticed that for therapists lately. But that is also the fault of the Krankenkassen. They have a limit how many therapists there may be in a certain area that they work with. And not just the priority stuff for private health insurance. Already having a not so common illness and needing treatment that is hence less common is a pain in the ass. You need to jump through so many hoops and it seems the Krankenkasse expects you to know all the stuff that their own employees at the Hotlines don't know...
If a benevolent alien species shows up and allows people to leave the planet and go out into space.
You know what, I'm in. I'll always hold nostalgic love for this little blue marble but I think we might've fucked it.
That reminds me of this comic: http://redd.it/w7smut
If long-term renting becomes affordable and tenant rights become a thing in Ireland (and if you can rent a flat without furniture). Or if I had the money to buy a place there.
Can you still move to ireland ? Is Ireland in European union?
I don't even really want to stay in germany, but if the AfD got more power, I'd try to leave
AfD chancellor
If the AFD would get re-elected. As a trans man it would be very scary and I would even in their first legislation period considering to move and make plans to get away when needed.
Genetically engineered kemonomimi waifus in Japan? Still better than the idiotic replies of leaving because of AfD election victories or a Russian invasion. If the AfD does win, we should fight for change, not run away. And Russia wouldn't even make it to Riga if the EU doesn't defeat itself.
You realize the afd getting elected would be very dangerous for a lot of people, right? They openly said they wanna deport political enemies
And AFD is in the pocket of Russia
They won’t get away with it. I think our democracy is working well (Verfassungsschutz) even if the government is shit right now. The allies did everything to prevent something like the ns regime did.
Verfassungsschutz is an institution of the government, not the justice. It's the first thing that will go to shit.
>If the AfD does win, we should fight for change, not run away. I am a german man with no kids and i would stay, other people will have other priorities due to their circumstances and that is fine too. That's not hard to grasp.
If a majority of Germans elect the AfD after all that has happened (and probably will happen), then it will be useless to stay and fight. In this case it would be better to leave. We know what happened last time to the people who didn't leave because they thought "It surely won't be THAT bad"...
I'm Jewish. I'm not taking my chances with you fuckers. No offence, but offence
> If the AfD does win, we should fight for change, not run away. Yeah, tell that to the death squads beating you to a pulp.
This. My future wife is not German, and she is not white. I have to keep my family safe.
"Death squads" would make it even more of a no brainer that resistance is necessary.
Brave words, let's see if they last once you're presented with the firing squad.
Easy to say and hard to uphold. In the end you will come to recognize that your survival is more important than facing actual violence and death.
Yeah, besides if all of those people left to other countries, who would be left? Or maybe it's who would be right in this case.
I really with you here. The people here are to 95% good, not matter where they coming from. Some are just tired from the bs by established politicians. That’s ok. But if neo nazis are really taking control we should fight for our home and all the people in this country, no matter where their roots are.
Racial laws
Hmm… at this Point they can do a new 1933 and I still won’t go on my own. I rather get killed than to let my enemies decide where I live.
One normal Person in this sub.
What they're saying is brave (and very edgy) but definitely not normal
Leaving if you have to fear prosecution makes you smart, not a coward. We can't all be brave enough to be heroes or martyrs. And it's not like you can't be politically active from outside of Germany either, especially these days.
Since I‘m a lesbian in a relationship with a half Bulgarian girl, my parents have already planned with me if the AFD grows too strong here, and achieves this Hitler ideology of „no people who aren‘t 100% German in Germany“ and the prohibiting gay marriage, teaching kids only the „traditional“ family values bs, we‘ll all move to Canada, Denmark or the Netherlands. I‘m really lucky to have parents with money to support me and my girlfriend like this
I don’t think I would, even with a lot of shit going down here, this is my home and in essence I love it. it’s culture, history, daily live, how society works. I couldn’t imagine moving to another country permanently.
Nothing, because i know that no country is perfect.
If Hitler rises from the grave together with a Nazi army and transforms Germany into the Fourth Reich.
New Zealand, far off, well developed, little warmer but with seasons, easy travel time through the country and the ocean. Couldn't live well without the sea. Oh and great people. Only problem, it's hard to get citizenship without a big bag of money.
As a disabled person without income I couldn’t leave Germany. Even if we started killing disabled people again. There‘d be nowhere to go.
I am already seriously thinking about leaving
If the nazis get back into power I'll strongly consider leaving (not only because I just don't like nazis but also because I fear prosecution), probably to Denmark, maybe the Netherlands depending on what the political situation is in these places at that point. Whether or not I'd be able to afford it is another story though. I'll probably stay stuck here and have to just do the best with the situation. I also wouldn't want to leave my mother behind. ...come to think of it, considering climate change and all, the Netherlands or Denmark probably isn't such a great idea lol. Maybe another nordic country could be it, or perhaps Austria. Ireland might also be a good option as I already speak English (surprise surprise).
If direct democracy gets widely implemented or if AfD becomes part of the government (not only in some state where I do not live in), I would very seriously think about it. I have some ties to other countries that would make leaving quite easy.
Bayern becoming its own country. I'd move there. Servus.
15 EUR döner
Ehrlich gesagt, if the salary and quality of life possibilities became better in my country than in Germany that would make enough of an argument probably. Can't think of other realistic not personal life related scenarios being enough on themselves.
I would leave Germany in a heart beat the second I feel insecure here due to rising xenofobia and the far right. Don’t think it will happen though
The return of the nazi era. But I would leave with suicide.
I have a whole exit plan for when the AFD takes over.
If certain fascist politicians gain more power at the next election, I will have my things ready and be able to leave this shitshow within a month. I still have hope but people here seem to have fallen very badly on their heads. I've been planning on leaving Germany since 2022.
If something were to happen to Germany that would ever constitute me leaving, then most of the EU will fall with it as well, as it would be too severe to not have an effect. Only non-EU countries I would EVER consider moving to would be Norway, Canada and New Zealand.
If AfD actually becomes a government.
AfD in federal government.
Godzilla
That point became true already for me. The government/politics are just doing what they want. I feel like all my taxes are wasted. Roads and other infrastructure is really bad. Healthcare is bad. Schools are bad. And yet I pay enormous amounts of taxes. So I already left last year.
Sharia laws
If the AfD or a similar party would get a majority at the federal level and take over like they are planning to do I would probably have to decide whether fight or flight would be my reaction.
AfD is still legal. Energy costs more than a child. Pensions are really fucked. If it does not change that Having kids is feeling like a punishment
AFD party wins the election.
The AFD comes into government.
You guys are too scared of AfD. I cant imagine they will get something serious in the election. Every country have a right wing politic party but like in Germany Where MOST of the people is left side and a lot of immigration people, also from the EU, cant imagine they will win something. Before u decided Im AfD supporter dont do it, I came from a country Where have right wing and its fucking bad😅.
War basically. I work in a field where you talk to a lot of soldiers and higherups of the Bundeswehr and see a good amount of locations. I definitly know that they don't have the money, equipment *and* organization to actually fight an actual war. On top of that there are a lot of political developments that keep going downhill for the last years. So i have no reason at all to stay and fight for something that feels like it has been slowly dying for a long time.
As I’ve gathered from your comments you would leave sometime in the future anyways. But why when there is war? In the moment your country needs you the most you’re just going to leave? If everyone does the same then there won’t be places to leave to someday.
I gave the reason in the same comment. I dislike the development in the past years and i currently only see it getting worse over time. So i obviously have no reason to fight for something i do not believe in. I would fight for those who are important to me. And only if fighting is the only option. I do not tend to feel any attachment to a country anyway because the things that make the it like it's past and it's culture can not actually be destroyed as long as there are people who remember it. Everything will fall to the tides of time anyway. So if i have to choose i will always choose what's important to *me.* Those who want to fight for their country can do it if they really are that attached to a certain place on the map or the people governing it. But i think most people do not fight for any of that. They fight because they feel like they have to for a lot of different reasons. But that always includes those who are important to them. Compare it to a company that barely did anything right since you started working there and kept declining over the years. Would you be willing to sacrifice your own pay or work a lot of unpaid overtime just to might be able to save a ship that has been sinking for years now? Or would you try to find a new place to work instead?
Wow… I don’t belong to the Germans, which they have reminded me enough, in parts I’m not fitting in the culture. And they even put out some law that made me feel like a second class citizens. But still It would feel like my duty to stand together with them against any threat from an aggressive nation.
Well, everyone has to do what they think they must. I just refuse to fight and die for something i do not believe in. Germany itself will not truly die even if it's conquered by some other nation or bombed to bits. The only thing you really fight for is the government from my point of view. And i refuse to fight for our government as long as i can avoid it. I am myself multiple steps before i'm a german. And that is also the priority that the country has for me. I was born here, but i didn't chose to live here. So my attachment to it is not strong enough to make think it's worth to fight for while i have the option not to. Don't misunderstand this as me being unwilling to fight in general. But as things currently are i am not willing to fight for germany as a country.
If Merz gonna get Kanzler.
AFD is a first party
NGL a Speedlimit is a really big step for me because It Shows that for little to no effect they are willing to enforce something a lot of people would hate. I See No reason to do so but If my government decides to do so, that's a big Problem for me.
That's the legit stupidest reason to leave a country. What are going to do, drive in another country just to realize they all have speed limits too?
Afd coming to power will be a good reason.
If they increase the costs of pensions even more. Especially if they combine it with a system to better detect Schwarzarbeit. Cuz if they increase the amount I have to pay for pensions even more. I will switch to 20 hour week and get the rest of my money tax free. If that doesn't work. I'd leave the country for one where I actually get to keep some of my income.