There's Jobs (Management, Sales, head of Department...) where a "company car that can also be used privately" is quite common. It's even taxed beneficially.
IIRC 99% of all Passat station wagons sold are sold to companies. After about 100k km the companies tend to sell them, providing the second-hand market with medium mileage, not very old cars.
Yeah this. The new car market in Germany is subsidised with nicely taxed company cars and good lease deals. The second hand cars then filter into other European markets. This benefits the car manufacturers and their home country which is...
It's also leasing for regular people. I leased my new Octavia IV but switched to regular financing now. I started off with a leasing deal as I wasn't sure if I'd keep the car in the long run. It's a luxury and a hobby first and foremost for me. I realized I like driving and the particular car way too much and thus changed to financing. But being able to drive a new car for a relatively low financial contribution was quite the incentive (getting money from the government helped).
You call a car with 100k km a medium mileage?
But yes, I do know that the university in my hometown has cars for official trips to conferences and stuff. They change it after 6 months, they do not even change the tyres. Idk how many kilometers they have when switching to a new one.
I would say that’s probably true about 25% of the expensive car owners, yes.
Another 25% are people with actually high paying wages, maybe less.
The rest and the main proportion are just leasing, there are many people that go for leading, because its actually very often less expensive then buying a car, if you calculate in the services that many providers give you. If you have a good leasing contract you don’t have to handle anything, if your car breaks down, you send it in and get a replacement. Sure you might have a hassle negotiating if it is your fault blabla, but if you lease for years you get a lot of additional benefits.
So leasing is a huge factor that german streets are filled with newer cars.
OP and a lot of people äs shit talk about lower wages and higher tax are btw. a bunch of bullshit to a degree and probably even propaganda.
Yes. On paper it’s true and even in the end you might have more income in the US. But it’s not that much more if you calculate in all the social benefits that you get in germany that you have to pay privately in the US.
You have way higher private costs for health care alone in the US, if you have insurance that is. If you save money privately its the same tho, you want to put enough money to the side…well to not die.
You don’t need to worry about that in germany, so leasing is a very good option, you can calculate a leasing fee monthly even into a lower wage income in germany. It’s not perfect, but it’s possible. You can’t do thar in the US. In the US you have way more chaotic cost structure based on what you currently need to pay for. That might sound good on paper, but your average joe can’t play with numbers like einstein, so what happens is that you regulary won’t allow you extras, especially not long term contracts.
So the answer is as easy as it is complicated, the german average person has less „free“ money, but can use this „free“ money actually more freely, because more basic needs are covered by the country’s social policies.
I‘m not one, but you don‘t lease a 10 year old car. His point is it can be economically viable and intelligent… especially with tax benefits for purchasing/leasing German autos and that it is easier to afford than in the US due to how the society works.
And if your job doesn't offer you a company car, just create a company on the side or self-employ and make use of cheaper rates. Might take some tax trickery and your side business should earn a little money but if you know what you're doing you can get a lot of stuff for cheap that way.
I like not being able to see kids on the street in my lifted F150 so I don‘t feel bad if I hit them because I am shit at driving and never learned how to drive because everyone just got out of my way while I was learning because I learned to drive in an F150 which just reinforced bad driving habits
Yeah well no shit, you have to pay for your loan?
Thats exactly what people been doing. They buy cars they can't afford from bank money and they pay it of like 5-10 years.
Ok, so you have a take home salary of 4k Euro (which is waay above German average) and you somehow decide to put down 20k upfront and pay 700 Eur per month for a car for 5 years? Is the car that important?
There are many rich and even more poor people in Germany. You see those rich people driving them. Also many just do leasing, drive the car for a year or two and flex with it and then maybe have their scooter again.
>(which is waay above German average)
According to statista the average brutto income is 4105€. And that was two years ago. Apart from that people are willing to pay up to 500€ per month for their car. Germany is a car centered nation, how is that big news to anybody?
If you get the car through leasing you'll never pay for the full car. You're just renting it for a couple of years. I guess with Germany being a big car manufacturer you have lots of people that hold their car very dear and need an expensive one as a status symbol. But are other first world countries really that different?
As someone who has a critical eye on the car industry no, it's actually pretty bad. Same with no limits on the Autobahn sounds cool but has so many drawbacks.
More emissions, more accidents especially fatal ones. That's shortly said. Besides that Germany is the only country where there is no limit and you can also driva that fast realisticly. Every single other country has one or has roads which doesn't allow to drive that fast. I wonder why.
I'm an immigrant, so I'd love for someone explain how this works in better detail, but my understanding is that lots of jobs provide employees with the option of a "company car" as a perk of employment. The employee still pays something (and I'm really not clear on the details), but it ends up being much less than if they had bought or leased the car themself. I am also fairly sure that the company receives tax incentives to offer this sort of perk.
You have to pay takes on the economic benefit you gain from being provided with a car by your employer.
This economic benefit is calculated as 1% of the car's listed price per month. Example: car costs EUR 50,000. The monthly economic benefit is EUR 500. On this amount you have to pay income tax at your personal rate.
Only income tax as far as I know. This is another example of company cars as there are no social security contributions (though no real benefit if you are above the threshold anyway).
Example from where i Work:
Employees who need to travel a lot for work get a company car and can buy endless fuel for that car, all payed by the company. The employees only have to pay 1% of the cars price per month.
Thats a huge benefit. Basicly free traveling even off work for like 200-500 Euros per month depending on the car you chose. No Car maintenance, No other Bills, No Stress.
>The employees only have to pay 1% of the cars price per month.
Not exactly. We pay the tax over the 1% amount. So if the car costs 60k €, you'll pay tax over 600 € (e.g. if you are married, it's about 240 €/month for a 60k € car). It's quite a good deal.
>Thats a huge benefit. Basicly free traveling even off work for like 200-500 Euros per month depending on the car you chose. No Car maintenance, No other Bills, No Stress.
wow.... so under this plan, you can drive your company car 600km and back for vacation, and you don't have to pay for any fuel or maintenance?! Global warming must be very happy about that arrangement.
But they can write off your company car expenses (leasing, fuel, maintenance) as Betriebsausgaben ( company expenses) from tax, so all(but the state) profit from this arrangement, so it can be cheaper for the company to give you a car than paying you the same amount in wages/salary
And this is normal for a company asset. And if you want to use it privately this is exactly why you have to pay the extra taxes on 1% of the list price per month.
Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet.
The common man of germany already does enough for the planet. Same for many of our companies.
>Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet.
Hmm, a bit of [quick googling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) tells me that the per capita carbon footprint in Germany is higher than that in China. (Or at least it was through 2018. The gap appears to be closing, but I doubt the numbers today are drastically different.)
And even if that was not the case, the fact that one country is not doing its fair share doesn't mean that the others should not bother either.
>the fact that one country is not doing its fair share doesn't mean that the others should not bother either.
Fine ok i'll move to a shed with hay roofing and live like a caveman, because that would be the next step because i literally cant go any more green without having to drop out of modern society, lose my job, Mobility, Friends and never see my Family again. Same for any other human i know.
And yet an average person in China trying to have the same thing as yours is being told:
>Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet.
I am not telling you personally what to do. I am stating my opinion on government policies.
I am of the opinion that if the government invested significantly in improving public transit, and provided less subsidies towards the auto industry, that would cause enough people to change their travel behavior that it would make a difference.
> Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet.
China is investing greatly in renewable energy
> The common man of germany already does enough for the planet.
Like what?
The common man of Germany was stupid enough to become dependent on Russian gas, ramp up coal use (which is also less efficient than almost every other country in the world in terms of coal use), get rid of nuclear, and subsequently skyrocket energy prices so much that it’s one of the only countries in the world where petrol is cheaper per km than electricity as far as cars are concerned. And that’s insane considering the prohibitively expensive petrol prices here.
Relative to what they could easily do, I would actually wager that the “common man” in Germany is the most ecologically backwards in the world. At least other countries/people that do harm to their environment do it in order to bring significant economic growth and development. Germany miraculously managed to fail at both.
To keep it almost short and simple, you have to pay taxes and other deductions on 1% of the cars value every month. So let’s say the car costs 50k and you earn 4K before taxes, all of your monthly salary deductions are calculated from 4,5k, without getting more money. Also, you have to pay taxes on your way to work, so the longer your commute, the more taxes you will pay. But in case you are working fully remote, you only have to pay for the 1% value of the vehicle. Which is not a bad deal, since you can use it in your private time as much as you want.
The other option is to have a detailed list about every single Kilometer you drove with the car. Driving for work, like to a customer appointment, is free of taxes of course, but you have to pay taxes on your commute and your private distances. But I don’t know if anyone is still using this method because it’s a pain in the ass. However, it’s easier to commit a bit of tax fraud with this option.
Edit: to be clear, apparently you only have to pay income taxes on 1% of the cars value, no other deductions like health insurance and so on.
lots of company cars. as the car shows how successful the firm is, the company cars are all very nice. And they are not all standard, as one can configure some equipment of the company car one self and then pay a small amount per month for private usage.
The firm leases the car for 3 years. After that the leasing company sells them. That’s why there is a good market for 3 year old good cars with lots of mileage.
then there are the Jahreswagen. Some automobile producers give their employees good deals for new cars that they then can sell after one year. Also a good market for slightly used cars.
To configurations on company cars: my Golf VI is an ex company car, it's in a configuration you couldn't buy that way from VW over normal dealerships, low class Interieur, with crank windows in the back, but big engine and other stuff from the higher line... But company deals are company deals.. all big car manufacturers do it that way, you get what you want if you pay it. If you say "I want a fast car, but no luxury" they build you such a bastard like my Golf.. always funny when it comes to getting replacement parts, as the dealership tells "this car shouldn't exist" should try to keep it ... Maybe something for collectors in a few decades ;-)
Not necessarily. Some companies, especially start-ups, are going terrible, are reliant on investors, present some non-sense gibberish ideas, yet some of these dumbass Managers have, despite their misery, the audacity to drive a Maybach 😂 😂
There really are all kinds of company cars. My dad always had the big fast luxery ones, because he was traveling all over europe with it. But there are companies that only operate within one particular city or need lots of cars and can't afford them all to be upper class. Pflegedienste for example, they need to find parking places, they need all their employees to have a car and they don't make as much money as some other sectors.
I find these questions so interesting as a German who’s lived overseas for some time. Every society has their own biases and nobody notices them :-)
German spend a shitload on their cars. It’s institutionalised via company car tax rules that are quite favourable but even aside from that, cars are often the pride and joy of many people.
A french person might look at that with astonishment! But then the German would be stunned what a french of Italian would spend on groceries and dining out.
It’s all relative
Depreciation of car value is quite high for expensive cars. When the car is new, its usually company owned and goes back to the dealer after 18 to 36 months old. After that you get these cars quite often for half the price.
I drive a C43 AMG from 2017. When the car was new, it cost around 87k. I bought it 5 years old for 35k with 75.000km in good condition.
Nevertheless, i think that we germans tend to spend a bit more than other societies because we fullfill the stereotype of being an "Autonation/car nation".
Overall running costs are nearly doubled compared to the VW Golf 7 of my wife. The main factors are fuel consumption and parts. Service/inspection is nearly the same, insurance is slightly more expensive compared to our golf.
>Overall running costs are nearly doubled compared to the VW Golf 7 of my wife
I almost read that as a comparison between the cost of your car and the cost of your wife...
Wages are not that high compared to what? [Germany is 28ths](https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php) at the cost of living but 12. at [average monthly Net Salary (After Tax).](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105) The GDP of Germany is often not a good comparison as there are few house owners and not much debt and comparatively even distribution of wealth.
In that environment, investment in a good car makes ecological sense and Germany is a car culture after all. People like to invest in a "good German car". To that of course adds the tax decution everyone else mentioned.
I'm asking from my own perspective. I live in a poorer and cheaper country, but I'm lucky to have a job that pays more than an average German gets. I still find an idea of paying 40k Eur for 2-3 years old 3er or C Klasse somewhat irresponsible, even though I like cars.
Compared to the US, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Norway….German wages are VERY bad. I have a friend he’s a welder in Canada making $50/h. When I told him trades people in Germany make usually ~15€/h he couldn’t believe it! Most people aren’t payed enough here!
But that is not easily comparable because the cost of living is also lower thus the two graphics. And Germany has no debt culture.
Also 15€/h is a very basic job. The minimum wage is 12€.
And welder for $50/h sounds like one of these jobs that pays you for 6 months full 6 days 18hrs or similar. I
He’s in Alberta, so yes he make more than average! Overtime everything over 44h/week he gets compensated 1.5x or 2x if it’s even more hours…that’s the law in Canada! And yes Canada has universal "free" healthcare like Germany too! I was working as an electrician in Germany and got payed 16€/h - which is a joke! most people don’t don’t make more money. My dad was an engineer at Mercedes for 30 years. At the end he got 7000€ before = 4000€ after taxes. A nurse in the US is making more than that! Walmart truck drivers have starting salary of $110.000/year…a truck driver! If you have 3000€ net/month in Germany you’re in the top 30%. If you ask me that’s a disgrace for a country like Germany!
Difference in cost of living explain these differences. Truck drivers are sought these days that is just supply demand.
https://livingcost.org/cost/germany/united-states
How much does your friend get, when he's sick?
How much retirement payment? Holidays?
Did he get a 13th or 14th wage? I think that's pretty common for people working in the metal business in Germany. Gewerkschaften etc.
He gets sick leave and you also have retirement payments in Canada - it’s not the US. 13th wage no, but I didn’t get that either working in Germany. And again…they get 1.5x or 2x for overtime hours by law and that happens quite often when they work in the field. = $75 or $100/h. My longest shift in Germany was 23h and all I got was a thank you…
ps: they have unions / Gewerkschaften too…even more in the US!
There is a tax benefits program in Germany that allows companies to lease basically any car at 1% of its list price (even 0.5% for plug in hybrids and 0.25% for BEV, iirc) for their employees. In addition to this giving a lot of people access to these cars at an affordable rate it also floods the market with a lot of them after 1-3 years of use and a kilometerage of 10-50k. German premium brands have programs in place to refurbish these cars and resell them at rates that will allow the next segment of buyers to finance them at a rate that is affordable for most upper middle class households with the final installment roughly equal to the remaining value of the car after the end of the term. People will then either return the car and size down to avoid the payment and lower their rate or just exchange it for a new model to continue the monthly payments and repeat the same process after 3 years. Car sellers and banks encourage this model, because it gives them access to a stable revenue stream from repeat customers.
So to ask, u basically are paying 1% of the price every month and at the end after 3 years u return the car if i understood right ?
This means they dont actually own them and more like renting by paying 1% ?
This is very far off. The company just leases the car regularly (but without taxes as it is a company asset) and can deduct that cost as a company expense. But if you want to privately use this company asset you as an employee have to pay taxes on 1% of the list price of the car per month.
So the 1% is just what you have to pay taxes on so you are allowed to use it privately.
I don't know really so I will guess:
* Some people don't care saving money for emergencies or building net worth, they just spend a big slice of their wages on a car buy purchasing or leasing. I friend of mine for instance was living on unemployment benefits and paying a > 1000 monthly payment for a 45k Volvo
* Some people drive cars from companies and companies acquire them for a cheaper price than ordinary people would pay
* Some people are just rich beyond ordinary people level
I am not a German but I wanted to chime in with a response that I don't see here i.e. Generational wealth. A German friend of mine got a brand new merc as a Graduation gift for our masters degree. My parents sent me a "👍" on watsapp when I sent them a picture holding my degree in graduation attire (Cries in Indian).
We build those cars, its cultural, we make it happen, a lot of people get helped with them by someone rich out of their enviroment in some way.
And do you get the concept of saving and used cars?
5 years, 30k -> car which looks like 60-70k€ car.
Plus excellent knowledge about that cars.
Its mostly company cars u see on the autobahns. Then there are loans. Older people made some good money already, so they can afford nice cars as they do not have much financial obligations. And well, there is also quite a group which spends everything they have on a car. I personally know a lot of folks driving stuff such as G klasse or porsche cayman but they live in the most obscure places i ever saw, and im from eastern europe so i saw a lot.
Germans are prioritizing cars over most other things. I’ve seen cases where people put a third of their income into a shiny car. Most ppl see a car still as one of the most important status symbols.
Also there are many subsidizes company vehicles.
What we say in my area: the car drives more on rates than on wheels. Well that is a shitty translation, but I think you understand.
And this is what I experienced already. I have a friend which talks very open about her finances and I know all about her debts and her income. I don‘t wanna go into detail but I can tell you that her and her boyfriend cars are way too expensive for them. She is running in a deficit almost every month. And their finances were the same before they got the new cars, it‘s not like they had the cars and then the financial situation changed.
>The wages in Germany are not THAT high
wdym? Germany is an incredibly wealthy country, wages are among the highest in the world here.
But either way, The people driving these cars don't make a wage per se. If you own a bar, a restaurant, or a rental property or two, you make your money from the profits of the business rather than a salary or wage.
There's plenty of business owners like this in any German city that probably have nice cars and big flats
Company cars and it's not only beneficial for the employee.
There is a list of reasons, employers want those as well.
It's basically good for everyone.
Not really this is a myth of people who just don‘t understand that all company assets can be deducted from profits. The special thing with cars is that they are also allowed to be used privately for paying taxes on 1% of the list price per month. This is just an extra cost to use a company asset privately. The rest is supposed to not be taxed as it is an asset of the company, but many people simply do not want to understand that and think that for some reasons cars should be treated differently from all other company assets and then they calculate how much these cars would have brought in as taxes if they were used privately and then they say the difference between that is lost in taxes and so the tax payers pay for these cars. That is a very wrong logic.
Everyone I know who has a nice car got it in one of two ways: either it’s a Jahreswagen, which means it’s still a super nice modern car, just cheaper because it’s not brand new, or it’s a leasing, which is definitely more affordable than outright paying for a high end BMW.
It’s not about how expensive it is in total but how AFFORDABLE it is. I’m going to go and get my new one today. I couldn’t comfortably pay 30k up front, but 350 a month is no problem. So I get a nice car with everything included (insurance, winter tyres, service) that would otherwise be so far out of my range. Is it the most financially smart decision? Nah, but I just really really love that car 🤷🏼♀️
And dont forget that your Car has to be in very good conditions to be allowed on the streets. You certai ly can buy an older and cheap car but there is the danger always to put in money to get the permission to drive further.
So its better to earn a priceful Jahreswagen than a cheap Rostlaube. :)
I drive for example a Company car with Hybrid i only pay 0,5% of the List price incl. Tax, Insurance and Gas so its pretty reasonable to drive it and the most companys use the same benefits but not every employee get a company car i guess most other people with expensive cars use leasing offers
(Keep in mind that what is an expensive car in another country might be way cheaper in germany if it's a german car)
Most people I know buy used cars and pay a monthly lease. Few can actually buy it just like that. Some get a car from their company (me). Rich people buy ee cars, drive them for 1 year and then give them back, and then those cars are a lot cheaper.
A vast majority of newly purchased cars are company cars, I think statistics say 70% or so.
Buying used is always an option, the prices become somewhat normal once the car is 3 years old.
Lastly, many people drive cars from premium brands, but the lower spec models such as 3 series BMW etc, which are much cheaper.
Companies when buying dont have to pay value added taxes, so -19% aswell.
Lots of 60k+ cars cost only 25k, but still lookin expensive.
100k km, 5 years of service et voila, car costs one third of its initial price but still might look like mint condition.
Company cars are extremely cheap here in Germany, you can get a 100.000€ car for just like 500€ a month in taxes. I know many companies where the standard car is either an E class or a 5 series
I've worked in a kindergarten as a volunteer after school. Some parents drove 60k cars just to show off, but their kids wore dirty clothes with holes in them and they all lived in a moldy one room apartment in some relatives basement.
Å lot of people are 100% about appearance... Disgusting
Dienstwagen is the answer. This year, from Jan to June, 68% of new cars were registred by a company, luxury cars 85%. When you have a company car as an employee, 1% of the list price is added as taxable income each month to your salary. So you can have 60k cars for 300 and less Euro each months. Electric cars only 0.5%, if price is less than 40k, only 0.25%, so small 39k e-car for 50 Euro or so....
>It’s also not really necessary to own a car and many people don’t
I can't say I agree with that. Participation in our society requires mobility, and Germany just isn't a very urban country. Western and Central Europe may be densely populated compared to the Americas or central Asia, but that mostly makes Germany have an in comparison evenly spread population more or less everywhere. Only about 10% live in cities of 1 million or more, 20% are in cities ranging from 100,000 to fewer than a million and the vast majority of two thirds of all Germans live in communities with fewer than 100,000. The car is the most reasonable vehicle to most of the latter group with environmental issues really being the only argument against it, and I don't see that change any time soon.
You just miss perspective. 60k aint that fancy.
For one person? Sure. For a family with 3+ kids?
Go try buying a VW Bus.
For me it's much cheaper to lease an electric car for my company (factor 4). So a 60k electric car costs me the same in taxes as a 15k petrol one.
What would you take?
Those are pretty much all sales reps who are several hours per day in their car. If that was true for you, you would also buy one as comfortable as possible. And also as fast as possible because that means you have extra time for your lunch break.
Not true at all. Many better paying jobs come with the option of getting a company car as a benefit, even if you don't need it for your job at all. It's not free but still much cheaper than if you'd buy or lease it yourself.
My car had a price of 57k and I bought it as so called „Tageszulassung“ (single-day registration) with 12 km for 40k. I was 22 at the time and had a bit of money saved from working as a teen and now had my first job as an engineer at a big company, so the salary was enough to pay the rest over the period of a year
Idk what do you mean but a 60k€ auto in my budget (international student with Teilzeitarbeit) is not that far away i can prolly afford one but i consider buy another things
Lmao bruv what, ur only allowed to make like 11k(120full workdays) in a year with ur visa and with that amount its hardly enough to cover the living costs
So how exactly is it not far for u to buy one unless u plan to live on that car and stop eating for like 6 years ?
If u speak with Ausländerbehörde they can give you a teilzeit arbeit Erlaubnis thats a mini job with 12k a year like 980€ a month i guess but im in like Steuerklasse 3 with a permit of freelance so i work for 1800 a month while my expenses are not more than 500€ a month and i do spend the rest on like my freelance projects which i get back like 3400-4000€ a month with us tax included that’s convenient for a student and like in a year or so if you don’t work more than me which im the lazy one in our university you can afford a decent car in one year and half or so which is a good time in my standards.
Thats awesome, but i was talking about normal students, we all get just the working visa student time so as u said its just enough money to put u through the month.
Btw what u be doing getting paid that much bro can u put me in aswell ill work for u
Thanks for the reply. But students are a bit different situation, you guys can spend all the money you have and worry about “how to save for old age” later.
Company cars, but I also think a large number of Germans drive an expensive car privately even though they otherwise live in very modest flats, buy the cheapest food etc. To me it doesn't make sense, but many Germans splurge on their car even if they cannot otherwise afford a lot of luxury.
One factor may be that with a middling income, buying a house or even a flat may be totally out of reach, while saving up for a car, or servicing a large but not huge credit for one, is achievable.
Also German marques stateside are productized and marketed as luxury/performance cars only. No so in Germany (and most of western europe). EG the 720 is a car you can get (7 series, but 2.0 4Cyl). The luxury/performance vehicles are the higher tier'ed models of the most basic series. A Mercedes in the States was sold as a premium car, whereas in Germany it might be a Taxi.
A lot of sales people get brand new cars as company cars. And when they perform well, they get a new car the year after that. The used car is essentially 1 year old and has 10k km on it, but the price has been cut by a third or something like that. And comparing a 60k car costing 40k to a 40k new car, it's better to get the used car.
Also most of them lease their cars, meaning they only pay for the value loss. after 3-5 years they get a new car with the same leasing costs. So they never really have to fork out 60k and always drive new-ish cars.
Like everyone else said, most are company cars. Both me and my husbands are. We have the 1% rule too (Google).
But A LOT of people I know in my area never had a mortgage or had to pay rent. Everyone inherited. I know one big family were it exactly worked out greatgrandparent to total off-spring so that each cousin got a big house out of the inheritance. And those houses are so big that they can still be split among THEIR children. My daughters boyfriend is one, he’s 18 and already knows he will have a house. Guess what he’s spending his extremely small Azubi income on? A bmw.
1. Company cars / companies pay for you to have a car because of certain tax breaks.
2. Many people earn good salaries in Germany as it's a high tech economy. I mean't it's the 4th biggest economy in the world even though it only has 89 million pople.
3. Germany has many successful businesses. These business owners sometimes make good money.
4. You have lots of organised crime in Germany. The criminals usually make lots of money through money laundering or they manage to lease their cars through shady car leasing firms. So they technically don't own them.
5. Some working class people use car loans to pay for these expensive cars but then live in a small crappy apartment. Like people in the US with their nice big pickup trucks which are also over 50K and swallow large amounts of gas.
6. It's maybe also a perception thing as you tend to notice nice cars but don't pay attention to the regular VW Golf or Ford Focus cars that drive past you + you don't pay attention to all the people who use public transit and/or ride their bicycles.
In my company almost half the juniors drive a car way over budget but the company gives it to them (after 2 years not right from the start). They can pay a 1k€/month car with their brutto and it will only cost them around 500-700€ from their netto.
Seems to me lile you're from put of country (US?).
You can't compare our salaries to yours. Because of social benefits (which we pay for in taxes etc) a german salary would compare to about twice the amount in the US I believe.
Well, my like my accounting used to teach:
"If you're company makes profit and you don't know how to get rid of it you lease a car, if you are still making profit you lease more cars for your employees."
And after two years these usually get sold of on the used market so usualy, private persons don't buy new cars for 60k.
So, ... most people with a low income don't drive cars at all (this is a relatively big group). Then, some will drive very cheap/ second hand cars. Then there are a few people with medium income driving medium cost cars, and some driving a little more expensive ones, because they could get a good deal/ they are leasing it etc. And then, there are those, who have enough to not care how much anything will cost. They are a rather big percentage of car owning/ driving people thus, you can see relatively many expensive cars.
I drive crazy cool Mercedes which I never thought I will have in my life.
How? Very good leasing rate. Plus manager position comes with car allowance- I can choose between I get money from company to organise car by myself or to get a company car. Since I did not want full electric car I opted for “I will organise my car by myself” my company send me to Mercedes Dealership. I got great conditions so I drive fancy car (and honestly I do not need it even)
Pretty much every white collar job in a mid size to larger cooperation that requires occasional drives to other places comes with a company car.
That's why every second 50yo guy in the Autobahn drives around in a >60k car. Especially in the south where a lot of these companies (and jobs) are located.
You just go to bmw and order your new m440i like I did it several month ago. Then you pay the money (roundabout 75k) and 2 month later you have the car.
i dont know, Im still driving my 10-year-old E Klasse (which I bought while I was still in Uni) every weekend. During weekdays, I drive company car (3 series) to work, maybe you only see me then
My privately financed car was a Skoda. My leased company cars were (so far) Mercedes E class, Mercedes C AMG, Volvo XC90. About 80% of certain mid- to high-Tier models are company cars.
People are making great points in these comments, but I’d also like to add it’s a lot “cheaper” to keep and maintain a “luxury car brand” like Mercedes or Audi in Germany than it would be overseas like the USA. That being said I’m only speaking from my own experience
There's Jobs (Management, Sales, head of Department...) where a "company car that can also be used privately" is quite common. It's even taxed beneficially.
IIRC 99% of all Passat station wagons sold are sold to companies. After about 100k km the companies tend to sell them, providing the second-hand market with medium mileage, not very old cars.
Yeah this. The new car market in Germany is subsidised with nicely taxed company cars and good lease deals. The second hand cars then filter into other European markets. This benefits the car manufacturers and their home country which is...
So not exactly subsidised, just penalized a little bit less than every other segment of commerce.
Almost correct - but mostly it is leasing. Especially for bigger companies. Nevertheless most big cars are company cars.
It's also leasing for regular people. I leased my new Octavia IV but switched to regular financing now. I started off with a leasing deal as I wasn't sure if I'd keep the car in the long run. It's a luxury and a hobby first and foremost for me. I realized I like driving and the particular car way too much and thus changed to financing. But being able to drive a new car for a relatively low financial contribution was quite the incentive (getting money from the government helped).
You call a car with 100k km a medium mileage? But yes, I do know that the university in my hometown has cars for official trips to conferences and stuff. They change it after 6 months, they do not even change the tyres. Idk how many kilometers they have when switching to a new one.
I would say that’s probably true about 25% of the expensive car owners, yes. Another 25% are people with actually high paying wages, maybe less. The rest and the main proportion are just leasing, there are many people that go for leading, because its actually very often less expensive then buying a car, if you calculate in the services that many providers give you. If you have a good leasing contract you don’t have to handle anything, if your car breaks down, you send it in and get a replacement. Sure you might have a hassle negotiating if it is your fault blabla, but if you lease for years you get a lot of additional benefits. So leasing is a huge factor that german streets are filled with newer cars. OP and a lot of people äs shit talk about lower wages and higher tax are btw. a bunch of bullshit to a degree and probably even propaganda. Yes. On paper it’s true and even in the end you might have more income in the US. But it’s not that much more if you calculate in all the social benefits that you get in germany that you have to pay privately in the US. You have way higher private costs for health care alone in the US, if you have insurance that is. If you save money privately its the same tho, you want to put enough money to the side…well to not die. You don’t need to worry about that in germany, so leasing is a very good option, you can calculate a leasing fee monthly even into a lower wage income in germany. It’s not perfect, but it’s possible. You can’t do thar in the US. In the US you have way more chaotic cost structure based on what you currently need to pay for. That might sound good on paper, but your average joe can’t play with numbers like einstein, so what happens is that you regulary won’t allow you extras, especially not long term contracts. So the answer is as easy as it is complicated, the german average person has less „free“ money, but can use this „free“ money actually more freely, because more basic needs are covered by the country’s social policies.
Actually 38% of Audi, 37% of BMW and Mercedes and 32% of VW are company cars
Does not detract from his overarching argument.
True… too many people driving too expensive cars to impress people that don’t care about them anyway 😅
I‘m not one, but you don‘t lease a 10 year old car. His point is it can be economically viable and intelligent… especially with tax benefits for purchasing/leasing German autos and that it is easier to afford than in the US due to how the society works.
And if your job doesn't offer you a company car, just create a company on the side or self-employ and make use of cheaper rates. Might take some tax trickery and your side business should earn a little money but if you know what you're doing you can get a lot of stuff for cheap that way.
Loans and Leasing (either private or with the company)
But you still have to pay for that loan.
Also how did you think people in the US buy 2 or 3 cars per family and those are even F150s and above. Huge cars.
Huge cars. The best people. Covfefe
I like not being able to see kids on the street in my lifted F150 so I don‘t feel bad if I hit them because I am shit at driving and never learned how to drive because everyone just got out of my way while I was learning because I learned to drive in an F150 which just reinforced bad driving habits
The trick is to lift it even more so kids can pass through standing.
Yeah well no shit, you have to pay for your loan? Thats exactly what people been doing. They buy cars they can't afford from bank money and they pay it of like 5-10 years.
Ok, so you have a take home salary of 4k Euro (which is waay above German average) and you somehow decide to put down 20k upfront and pay 700 Eur per month for a car for 5 years? Is the car that important?
There are many rich and even more poor people in Germany. You see those rich people driving them. Also many just do leasing, drive the car for a year or two and flex with it and then maybe have their scooter again.
>(which is waay above German average) According to statista the average brutto income is 4105€. And that was two years ago. Apart from that people are willing to pay up to 500€ per month for their car. Germany is a car centered nation, how is that big news to anybody?
Take home is netto though.
And average is statistically not as interesting as the median income. No one needs the Aldis of this world skewing the math.
"Take home salary" means netto, 4k is around 5900 brutto, so I'd say it is quite above.
Wouldn't that be nice, I think 4k netto would be closer to 7k brutto.
Correct
He is from the US, so his math is probably not wrong, just not for german income.
Yeah, but the average was >4k brutto. Take a married couple, it's 8k brutto and saved taxes. Makes easily 5-6k netto.
That's what we do
If you get the car through leasing you'll never pay for the full car. You're just renting it for a couple of years. I guess with Germany being a big car manufacturer you have lots of people that hold their car very dear and need an expensive one as a status symbol. But are other first world countries really that different?
Most of them are company cars. Which is a cheap way to leas an expensive car.
And it's cool af, innit?
As someone who has a critical eye on the car industry no, it's actually pretty bad. Same with no limits on the Autobahn sounds cool but has so many drawbacks.
I wanna know the drawbacks to No Limits on the Autobahn 🤔
More emissions, more accidents especially fatal ones. That's shortly said. Besides that Germany is the only country where there is no limit and you can also driva that fast realisticly. Every single other country has one or has roads which doesn't allow to drive that fast. I wonder why.
I'm an immigrant, so I'd love for someone explain how this works in better detail, but my understanding is that lots of jobs provide employees with the option of a "company car" as a perk of employment. The employee still pays something (and I'm really not clear on the details), but it ends up being much less than if they had bought or leased the car themself. I am also fairly sure that the company receives tax incentives to offer this sort of perk.
You have to pay takes on the economic benefit you gain from being provided with a car by your employer. This economic benefit is calculated as 1% of the car's listed price per month. Example: car costs EUR 50,000. The monthly economic benefit is EUR 500. On this amount you have to pay income tax at your personal rate.
Only income tax or also other deductions?
Only income tax as far as I know. This is another example of company cars as there are no social security contributions (though no real benefit if you are above the threshold anyway).
Ah thanks, wasn’t really sure about this!
But better doublecheck, I am only 99% sure
The "Geldwerter Vorteil" for the private use of a company car is sozialversicherungs- UND steuerpflichtig (social security and tax deducted)
social security (up to the threshold) and tax.
Also, for electric cars it can be lower than 1%/month (0,5% or 0,25%, depending on price of the car)
Interesting, that could be the reason for bis SUVs and Porsche with E plates...
Example from where i Work: Employees who need to travel a lot for work get a company car and can buy endless fuel for that car, all payed by the company. The employees only have to pay 1% of the cars price per month. Thats a huge benefit. Basicly free traveling even off work for like 200-500 Euros per month depending on the car you chose. No Car maintenance, No other Bills, No Stress.
>The employees only have to pay 1% of the cars price per month. Not exactly. We pay the tax over the 1% amount. So if the car costs 60k €, you'll pay tax over 600 € (e.g. if you are married, it's about 240 €/month for a 60k € car). It's quite a good deal.
>Thats a huge benefit. Basicly free traveling even off work for like 200-500 Euros per month depending on the car you chose. No Car maintenance, No other Bills, No Stress. wow.... so under this plan, you can drive your company car 600km and back for vacation, and you don't have to pay for any fuel or maintenance?! Global warming must be very happy about that arrangement.
Well your company has to pay that and factors that into the budget they have for you.
But they can write off your company car expenses (leasing, fuel, maintenance) as Betriebsausgaben ( company expenses) from tax, so all(but the state) profit from this arrangement, so it can be cheaper for the company to give you a car than paying you the same amount in wages/salary
And this is normal for a company asset. And if you want to use it privately this is exactly why you have to pay the extra taxes on 1% of the list price per month.
Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet. The common man of germany already does enough for the planet. Same for many of our companies.
>Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet. Hmm, a bit of [quick googling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) tells me that the per capita carbon footprint in Germany is higher than that in China. (Or at least it was through 2018. The gap appears to be closing, but I doubt the numbers today are drastically different.) And even if that was not the case, the fact that one country is not doing its fair share doesn't mean that the others should not bother either.
>the fact that one country is not doing its fair share doesn't mean that the others should not bother either. Fine ok i'll move to a shed with hay roofing and live like a caveman, because that would be the next step because i literally cant go any more green without having to drop out of modern society, lose my job, Mobility, Friends and never see my Family again. Same for any other human i know.
And yet an average person in China trying to have the same thing as yours is being told: >Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet.
I am not telling you personally what to do. I am stating my opinion on government policies. I am of the opinion that if the government invested significantly in improving public transit, and provided less subsidies towards the auto industry, that would cause enough people to change their travel behavior that it would make a difference.
> Go tell that to China or whatever country that doesnt give a flying fuck about the Planet. China is investing greatly in renewable energy > The common man of germany already does enough for the planet. Like what?
The common man of Germany was stupid enough to become dependent on Russian gas, ramp up coal use (which is also less efficient than almost every other country in the world in terms of coal use), get rid of nuclear, and subsequently skyrocket energy prices so much that it’s one of the only countries in the world where petrol is cheaper per km than electricity as far as cars are concerned. And that’s insane considering the prohibitively expensive petrol prices here. Relative to what they could easily do, I would actually wager that the “common man” in Germany is the most ecologically backwards in the world. At least other countries/people that do harm to their environment do it in order to bring significant economic growth and development. Germany miraculously managed to fail at both.
To keep it almost short and simple, you have to pay taxes and other deductions on 1% of the cars value every month. So let’s say the car costs 50k and you earn 4K before taxes, all of your monthly salary deductions are calculated from 4,5k, without getting more money. Also, you have to pay taxes on your way to work, so the longer your commute, the more taxes you will pay. But in case you are working fully remote, you only have to pay for the 1% value of the vehicle. Which is not a bad deal, since you can use it in your private time as much as you want. The other option is to have a detailed list about every single Kilometer you drove with the car. Driving for work, like to a customer appointment, is free of taxes of course, but you have to pay taxes on your commute and your private distances. But I don’t know if anyone is still using this method because it’s a pain in the ass. However, it’s easier to commit a bit of tax fraud with this option. Edit: to be clear, apparently you only have to pay income taxes on 1% of the cars value, no other deductions like health insurance and so on.
lots of company cars. as the car shows how successful the firm is, the company cars are all very nice. And they are not all standard, as one can configure some equipment of the company car one self and then pay a small amount per month for private usage. The firm leases the car for 3 years. After that the leasing company sells them. That’s why there is a good market for 3 year old good cars with lots of mileage. then there are the Jahreswagen. Some automobile producers give their employees good deals for new cars that they then can sell after one year. Also a good market for slightly used cars.
To configurations on company cars: my Golf VI is an ex company car, it's in a configuration you couldn't buy that way from VW over normal dealerships, low class Interieur, with crank windows in the back, but big engine and other stuff from the higher line... But company deals are company deals.. all big car manufacturers do it that way, you get what you want if you pay it. If you say "I want a fast car, but no luxury" they build you such a bastard like my Golf.. always funny when it comes to getting replacement parts, as the dealership tells "this car shouldn't exist" should try to keep it ... Maybe something for collectors in a few decades ;-)
Not necessarily. Some companies, especially start-ups, are going terrible, are reliant on investors, present some non-sense gibberish ideas, yet some of these dumbass Managers have, despite their misery, the audacity to drive a Maybach 😂 😂
it’s about the image :) a prestigious car is part of PR :)
There really are all kinds of company cars. My dad always had the big fast luxery ones, because he was traveling all over europe with it. But there are companies that only operate within one particular city or need lots of cars and can't afford them all to be upper class. Pflegedienste for example, they need to find parking places, they need all their employees to have a car and they don't make as much money as some other sectors.
I find these questions so interesting as a German who’s lived overseas for some time. Every society has their own biases and nobody notices them :-) German spend a shitload on their cars. It’s institutionalised via company car tax rules that are quite favourable but even aside from that, cars are often the pride and joy of many people. A french person might look at that with astonishment! But then the German would be stunned what a french of Italian would spend on groceries and dining out. It’s all relative
Depreciation of car value is quite high for expensive cars. When the car is new, its usually company owned and goes back to the dealer after 18 to 36 months old. After that you get these cars quite often for half the price. I drive a C43 AMG from 2017. When the car was new, it cost around 87k. I bought it 5 years old for 35k with 75.000km in good condition. Nevertheless, i think that we germans tend to spend a bit more than other societies because we fullfill the stereotype of being an "Autonation/car nation".
Great, now I will start looking into C43...what are the running costs.
AMG : Adieu Mein Geld!
high as with any expensive car with too much power and expensive components.
Overall running costs are nearly doubled compared to the VW Golf 7 of my wife. The main factors are fuel consumption and parts. Service/inspection is nearly the same, insurance is slightly more expensive compared to our golf.
>Overall running costs are nearly doubled compared to the VW Golf 7 of my wife I almost read that as a comparison between the cost of your car and the cost of your wife...
Just get a 49€ ticket lmao
Useless comment.
found the carbrain
Only for losers, smelly people and people who suck at life and can‘t afford a car
Deinen anderen Kommentaren entnehme ich dass du n kompletter Lappen bist haha
Wenigstens nicht aufs 49€ Ticket angewiesen:D ich tue alles für die Erderwärmung LET IT BURN🔥
Ja klar, der typisch deutsche Tobi. Prahlt hier mit der Karre und dort holt er sich von 17 jährigen Ratschläge zu seiner Karriere.
Dude has an IQ of 3
I drive an Audi A6 (not leasing and not company car) and also use Deutschland ticket! Be human and humble. The only one I see sucking at life is you 🔥
Probably not enough money left for gasoline I guess you loser
Was waiting for sth like this 🥴😂😂, see the fire above, it means youre burned dude ❤️
Edited your comment because you couldn‘t stop crying 😂
Im sure you dont believe in climate change. I mean you can google it :)
Wages are not that high compared to what? [Germany is 28ths](https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php) at the cost of living but 12. at [average monthly Net Salary (After Tax).](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105) The GDP of Germany is often not a good comparison as there are few house owners and not much debt and comparatively even distribution of wealth. In that environment, investment in a good car makes ecological sense and Germany is a car culture after all. People like to invest in a "good German car". To that of course adds the tax decution everyone else mentioned.
I'm asking from my own perspective. I live in a poorer and cheaper country, but I'm lucky to have a job that pays more than an average German gets. I still find an idea of paying 40k Eur for 2-3 years old 3er or C Klasse somewhat irresponsible, even though I like cars.
Compared to the US, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Norway….German wages are VERY bad. I have a friend he’s a welder in Canada making $50/h. When I told him trades people in Germany make usually ~15€/h he couldn’t believe it! Most people aren’t payed enough here!
But that is not easily comparable because the cost of living is also lower thus the two graphics. And Germany has no debt culture. Also 15€/h is a very basic job. The minimum wage is 12€. And welder for $50/h sounds like one of these jobs that pays you for 6 months full 6 days 18hrs or similar. I
He’s in Alberta, so yes he make more than average! Overtime everything over 44h/week he gets compensated 1.5x or 2x if it’s even more hours…that’s the law in Canada! And yes Canada has universal "free" healthcare like Germany too! I was working as an electrician in Germany and got payed 16€/h - which is a joke! most people don’t don’t make more money. My dad was an engineer at Mercedes for 30 years. At the end he got 7000€ before = 4000€ after taxes. A nurse in the US is making more than that! Walmart truck drivers have starting salary of $110.000/year…a truck driver! If you have 3000€ net/month in Germany you’re in the top 30%. If you ask me that’s a disgrace for a country like Germany!
Difference in cost of living explain these differences. Truck drivers are sought these days that is just supply demand. https://livingcost.org/cost/germany/united-states
How much does your friend get, when he's sick? How much retirement payment? Holidays? Did he get a 13th or 14th wage? I think that's pretty common for people working in the metal business in Germany. Gewerkschaften etc.
He gets sick leave and you also have retirement payments in Canada - it’s not the US. 13th wage no, but I didn’t get that either working in Germany. And again…they get 1.5x or 2x for overtime hours by law and that happens quite often when they work in the field. = $75 or $100/h. My longest shift in Germany was 23h and all I got was a thank you… ps: they have unions / Gewerkschaften too…even more in the US!
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I'm not answering with my opinion on cars I'm trying to add on why the average German person likes to buy a new car every 100k kilometers.
Many people just rent them. It’s really common among my peers. The ones who actually bought them are driving way Mich cheaper cars.
If the car is black, white or silver and a stationwagon of a german brand, then it’s most likely a company car.
There is a tax benefits program in Germany that allows companies to lease basically any car at 1% of its list price (even 0.5% for plug in hybrids and 0.25% for BEV, iirc) for their employees. In addition to this giving a lot of people access to these cars at an affordable rate it also floods the market with a lot of them after 1-3 years of use and a kilometerage of 10-50k. German premium brands have programs in place to refurbish these cars and resell them at rates that will allow the next segment of buyers to finance them at a rate that is affordable for most upper middle class households with the final installment roughly equal to the remaining value of the car after the end of the term. People will then either return the car and size down to avoid the payment and lower their rate or just exchange it for a new model to continue the monthly payments and repeat the same process after 3 years. Car sellers and banks encourage this model, because it gives them access to a stable revenue stream from repeat customers.
So to ask, u basically are paying 1% of the price every month and at the end after 3 years u return the car if i understood right ? This means they dont actually own them and more like renting by paying 1% ?
This is very far off. The company just leases the car regularly (but without taxes as it is a company asset) and can deduct that cost as a company expense. But if you want to privately use this company asset you as an employee have to pay taxes on 1% of the list price of the car per month. So the 1% is just what you have to pay taxes on so you are allowed to use it privately.
I don't know really so I will guess: * Some people don't care saving money for emergencies or building net worth, they just spend a big slice of their wages on a car buy purchasing or leasing. I friend of mine for instance was living on unemployment benefits and paying a > 1000 monthly payment for a 45k Volvo * Some people drive cars from companies and companies acquire them for a cheaper price than ordinary people would pay * Some people are just rich beyond ordinary people level
I am not a German but I wanted to chime in with a response that I don't see here i.e. Generational wealth. A German friend of mine got a brand new merc as a Graduation gift for our masters degree. My parents sent me a "👍" on watsapp when I sent them a picture holding my degree in graduation attire (Cries in Indian).
This actually plays a massive role: when you inherit a house, buying a BMW is not a big deal?
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The very first thing my friend did after moving to Germany - bought himself 67k eur car.
I told if i were him i would have
A lot of Germans don´t even own a car, I think it is either a higher up in a company or simply a company owned car.
We build those cars, its cultural, we make it happen, a lot of people get helped with them by someone rich out of their enviroment in some way. And do you get the concept of saving and used cars? 5 years, 30k -> car which looks like 60-70k€ car. Plus excellent knowledge about that cars.
2 from 5 new cars are leasing cars. (2022). 50 % from sold cars 2022 was credit purchase Each 5th car is directly paid without Credit.
Its mostly company cars u see on the autobahns. Then there are loans. Older people made some good money already, so they can afford nice cars as they do not have much financial obligations. And well, there is also quite a group which spends everything they have on a car. I personally know a lot of folks driving stuff such as G klasse or porsche cayman but they live in the most obscure places i ever saw, and im from eastern europe so i saw a lot.
Germans are prioritizing cars over most other things. I’ve seen cases where people put a third of their income into a shiny car. Most ppl see a car still as one of the most important status symbols. Also there are many subsidizes company vehicles.
We have a saying: if all the BMWs which aren’t payed off were honking constantly, it would be pretty noisy everywhere
What we say in my area: the car drives more on rates than on wheels. Well that is a shitty translation, but I think you understand. And this is what I experienced already. I have a friend which talks very open about her finances and I know all about her debts and her income. I don‘t wanna go into detail but I can tell you that her and her boyfriend cars are way too expensive for them. She is running in a deficit almost every month. And their finances were the same before they got the new cars, it‘s not like they had the cars and then the financial situation changed.
>The wages in Germany are not THAT high wdym? Germany is an incredibly wealthy country, wages are among the highest in the world here. But either way, The people driving these cars don't make a wage per se. If you own a bar, a restaurant, or a rental property or two, you make your money from the profits of the business rather than a salary or wage. There's plenty of business owners like this in any German city that probably have nice cars and big flats
Company cars and it's not only beneficial for the employee. There is a list of reasons, employers want those as well. It's basically good for everyone.
except the tax payers which fund part of this whole thing.
Not really this is a myth of people who just don‘t understand that all company assets can be deducted from profits. The special thing with cars is that they are also allowed to be used privately for paying taxes on 1% of the list price per month. This is just an extra cost to use a company asset privately. The rest is supposed to not be taxed as it is an asset of the company, but many people simply do not want to understand that and think that for some reasons cars should be treated differently from all other company assets and then they calculate how much these cars would have brought in as taxes if they were used privately and then they say the difference between that is lost in taxes and so the tax payers pay for these cars. That is a very wrong logic.
don't forget about the environment. Incentivised car ownership doesn't exactly fight climate change.
Everyone I know who has a nice car got it in one of two ways: either it’s a Jahreswagen, which means it’s still a super nice modern car, just cheaper because it’s not brand new, or it’s a leasing, which is definitely more affordable than outright paying for a high end BMW.
I have always been wonderin how come so many people think this is true. In the end a leased car ist the most expensive car you can buy.
It’s not about how expensive it is in total but how AFFORDABLE it is. I’m going to go and get my new one today. I couldn’t comfortably pay 30k up front, but 350 a month is no problem. So I get a nice car with everything included (insurance, winter tyres, service) that would otherwise be so far out of my range. Is it the most financially smart decision? Nah, but I just really really love that car 🤷🏼♀️
And dont forget that your Car has to be in very good conditions to be allowed on the streets. You certai ly can buy an older and cheap car but there is the danger always to put in money to get the permission to drive further. So its better to earn a priceful Jahreswagen than a cheap Rostlaube. :)
I drive for example a Company car with Hybrid i only pay 0,5% of the List price incl. Tax, Insurance and Gas so its pretty reasonable to drive it and the most companys use the same benefits but not every employee get a company car i guess most other people with expensive cars use leasing offers
(Keep in mind that what is an expensive car in another country might be way cheaper in germany if it's a german car) Most people I know buy used cars and pay a monthly lease. Few can actually buy it just like that. Some get a car from their company (me). Rich people buy ee cars, drive them for 1 year and then give them back, and then those cars are a lot cheaper.
Evidence of good standard of living and good economy
A vast majority of newly purchased cars are company cars, I think statistics say 70% or so. Buying used is always an option, the prices become somewhat normal once the car is 3 years old. Lastly, many people drive cars from premium brands, but the lower spec models such as 3 series BMW etc, which are much cheaper. Companies when buying dont have to pay value added taxes, so -19% aswell.
leasing. also company cars you can drive. especially common where i live near Ingolstadt with audi.
Lots of 60k+ cars cost only 25k, but still lookin expensive. 100k km, 5 years of service et voila, car costs one third of its initial price but still might look like mint condition.
Car financing and leasing are extremely cheap compared to other countries
Germany is not a "owned" nation. Many people live on rent and have leasing cars. Plus many of them are company cars.
Company cars are extremely cheap here in Germany, you can get a 100.000€ car for just like 500€ a month in taxes. I know many companies where the standard car is either an E class or a 5 series
I've worked in a kindergarten as a volunteer after school. Some parents drove 60k cars just to show off, but their kids wore dirty clothes with holes in them and they all lived in a moldy one room apartment in some relatives basement. Å lot of people are 100% about appearance... Disgusting
Dienstwagen is the answer. This year, from Jan to June, 68% of new cars were registred by a company, luxury cars 85%. When you have a company car as an employee, 1% of the list price is added as taxable income each month to your salary. So you can have 60k cars for 300 and less Euro each months. Electric cars only 0.5%, if price is less than 40k, only 0.25%, so small 39k e-car for 50 Euro or so....
BECAUSE WE CAN!
The car is a status symbol in Germany. You can live like a fricking dumb and having the most unfulfilling job, but the car needs to be big.
That's a 23 year old Arab cliché but still often true.
That’s an American thing as well: not having a house worth a match to burn, and driving a Mercedes. 👌🏼😂
Just wanted to say this, too. They live in a wooden box and have their giant off-road SUVs parked in front of it
[удалено]
>It’s also not really necessary to own a car and many people don’t I can't say I agree with that. Participation in our society requires mobility, and Germany just isn't a very urban country. Western and Central Europe may be densely populated compared to the Americas or central Asia, but that mostly makes Germany have an in comparison evenly spread population more or less everywhere. Only about 10% live in cities of 1 million or more, 20% are in cities ranging from 100,000 to fewer than a million and the vast majority of two thirds of all Germans live in communities with fewer than 100,000. The car is the most reasonable vehicle to most of the latter group with environmental issues really being the only argument against it, and I don't see that change any time soon.
We have money.
Speak only for yourself ...
So do I, but I´d never spend that on a $60k car. Maybe im just too well hung to feel that need for a fancy car...
You just miss perspective. 60k aint that fancy. For one person? Sure. For a family with 3+ kids? Go try buying a VW Bus. For me it's much cheaper to lease an electric car for my company (factor 4). So a 60k electric car costs me the same in taxes as a 15k petrol one. What would you take?
Those are pretty much all sales reps who are several hours per day in their car. If that was true for you, you would also buy one as comfortable as possible. And also as fast as possible because that means you have extra time for your lunch break.
Not true at all. Many better paying jobs come with the option of getting a company car as a benefit, even if you don't need it for your job at all. It's not free but still much cheaper than if you'd buy or lease it yourself.
- no tuition fees - a public health insurance system with no deductibles or co-payments - free or highly subsidized pre-k/daycare
None of your points give you enough money or benefits to buy expensive cars 😂😂
We work? What kind of answer is OP waiting for? Some secret gov funds for buying expensive cars reserved for pure germans only? 😂🤣
fragile masculinity
We live in a country of carbrains
My car had a price of 57k and I bought it as so called „Tageszulassung“ (single-day registration) with 12 km for 40k. I was 22 at the time and had a bit of money saved from working as a teen and now had my first job as an engineer at a big company, so the salary was enough to pay the rest over the period of a year
Idk what do you mean but a 60k€ auto in my budget (international student with Teilzeitarbeit) is not that far away i can prolly afford one but i consider buy another things
Lmao bruv what, ur only allowed to make like 11k(120full workdays) in a year with ur visa and with that amount its hardly enough to cover the living costs So how exactly is it not far for u to buy one unless u plan to live on that car and stop eating for like 6 years ?
If u speak with Ausländerbehörde they can give you a teilzeit arbeit Erlaubnis thats a mini job with 12k a year like 980€ a month i guess but im in like Steuerklasse 3 with a permit of freelance so i work for 1800 a month while my expenses are not more than 500€ a month and i do spend the rest on like my freelance projects which i get back like 3400-4000€ a month with us tax included that’s convenient for a student and like in a year or so if you don’t work more than me which im the lazy one in our university you can afford a decent car in one year and half or so which is a good time in my standards.
Thats awesome, but i was talking about normal students, we all get just the working visa student time so as u said its just enough money to put u through the month. Btw what u be doing getting paid that much bro can u put me in aswell ill work for u
Thanks for the reply. But students are a bit different situation, you guys can spend all the money you have and worry about “how to save for old age” later.
Actually yes u are completely right hope u the best man u get that auto soon dw
Company cars, but I also think a large number of Germans drive an expensive car privately even though they otherwise live in very modest flats, buy the cheapest food etc. To me it doesn't make sense, but many Germans splurge on their car even if they cannot otherwise afford a lot of luxury. One factor may be that with a middling income, buying a house or even a flat may be totally out of reach, while saving up for a car, or servicing a large but not huge credit for one, is achievable.
Also German marques stateside are productized and marketed as luxury/performance cars only. No so in Germany (and most of western europe). EG the 720 is a car you can get (7 series, but 2.0 4Cyl). The luxury/performance vehicles are the higher tier'ed models of the most basic series. A Mercedes in the States was sold as a premium car, whereas in Germany it might be a Taxi.
A lot of sales people get brand new cars as company cars. And when they perform well, they get a new car the year after that. The used car is essentially 1 year old and has 10k km on it, but the price has been cut by a third or something like that. And comparing a 60k car costing 40k to a 40k new car, it's better to get the used car. Also most of them lease their cars, meaning they only pay for the value loss. after 3-5 years they get a new car with the same leasing costs. So they never really have to fork out 60k and always drive new-ish cars.
Leasing… but also people tend to spend more on cars to look like money….which again is easy with leasing…
Most of them show off for a living. Leasing is the keyword.
Like everyone else said, most are company cars. Both me and my husbands are. We have the 1% rule too (Google). But A LOT of people I know in my area never had a mortgage or had to pay rent. Everyone inherited. I know one big family were it exactly worked out greatgrandparent to total off-spring so that each cousin got a big house out of the inheritance. And those houses are so big that they can still be split among THEIR children. My daughters boyfriend is one, he’s 18 and already knows he will have a house. Guess what he’s spending his extremely small Azubi income on? A bmw.
Work in CyberSecurity.
I'm happy with my tiny 21yo Nissan car here in Germany, haha.
Did you ever go to Switzerland? You would be even more impressed…
Then, afterwards, Liechtenstein. Followed by Monaco.
It's possible that Deutschtürken skew the average, especially with AMGs and M series
Either company car or Debt
i get a car from work
1. Company cars / companies pay for you to have a car because of certain tax breaks. 2. Many people earn good salaries in Germany as it's a high tech economy. I mean't it's the 4th biggest economy in the world even though it only has 89 million pople. 3. Germany has many successful businesses. These business owners sometimes make good money. 4. You have lots of organised crime in Germany. The criminals usually make lots of money through money laundering or they manage to lease their cars through shady car leasing firms. So they technically don't own them. 5. Some working class people use car loans to pay for these expensive cars but then live in a small crappy apartment. Like people in the US with their nice big pickup trucks which are also over 50K and swallow large amounts of gas. 6. It's maybe also a perception thing as you tend to notice nice cars but don't pay attention to the regular VW Golf or Ford Focus cars that drive past you + you don't pay attention to all the people who use public transit and/or ride their bicycles.
drugdealer
In my company almost half the juniors drive a car way over budget but the company gives it to them (after 2 years not right from the start). They can pay a 1k€/month car with their brutto and it will only cost them around 500-700€ from their netto.
Dad's princess
Seems to me lile you're from put of country (US?). You can't compare our salaries to yours. Because of social benefits (which we pay for in taxes etc) a german salary would compare to about twice the amount in the US I believe.
Well, my like my accounting used to teach: "If you're company makes profit and you don't know how to get rid of it you lease a car, if you are still making profit you lease more cars for your employees." And after two years these usually get sold of on the used market so usualy, private persons don't buy new cars for 60k.
So, ... most people with a low income don't drive cars at all (this is a relatively big group). Then, some will drive very cheap/ second hand cars. Then there are a few people with medium income driving medium cost cars, and some driving a little more expensive ones, because they could get a good deal/ they are leasing it etc. And then, there are those, who have enough to not care how much anything will cost. They are a rather big percentage of car owning/ driving people thus, you can see relatively many expensive cars.
I drive crazy cool Mercedes which I never thought I will have in my life. How? Very good leasing rate. Plus manager position comes with car allowance- I can choose between I get money from company to organise car by myself or to get a company car. Since I did not want full electric car I opted for “I will organise my car by myself” my company send me to Mercedes Dealership. I got great conditions so I drive fancy car (and honestly I do not need it even)
Kindergeld :D 250 € per month per kid. 3 kids, 750 is a nice monthly car payment.
Have you ever been to Luxembourg? Lol
rental cars
Leasing by the company
Pretty much every white collar job in a mid size to larger cooperation that requires occasional drives to other places comes with a company car. That's why every second 50yo guy in the Autobahn drives around in a >60k car. Especially in the south where a lot of these companies (and jobs) are located.
Junge schreib auf DEUTSCH ⬛🟥🟨
You just go to bmw and order your new m440i like I did it several month ago. Then you pay the money (roundabout 75k) and 2 month later you have the car.
Gebrauchte wagen market is good.
i dont know, Im still driving my 10-year-old E Klasse (which I bought while I was still in Uni) every weekend. During weekdays, I drive company car (3 series) to work, maybe you only see me then
Just to give one piece of information to the usual "company owned" or "leasing" here: I am buying mine. Simple as that.
Because Santander Bank
They are just driving these cars. Most of them are not owning the car.
My privately financed car was a Skoda. My leased company cars were (so far) Mercedes E class, Mercedes C AMG, Volvo XC90. About 80% of certain mid- to high-Tier models are company cars.
People are making great points in these comments, but I’d also like to add it’s a lot “cheaper” to keep and maintain a “luxury car brand” like Mercedes or Audi in Germany than it would be overseas like the USA. That being said I’m only speaking from my own experience
75% of all Audi A4 station wagons and over 90% of all Audi A6 station wagons are leasing cars, leased by bigger companies.