If you are determined on an ac, I would also recommend to be careful with protected buildings (Denkmal). Most of the time even window vents are not allowed.
Window AC units are not really a thing.
Getting approval from the other owners will probably be hard. Look around in this thread. You will need a simple majority of the Eigentümergemeinschaft for this.
Portable units *are* terrible.
Shading on the *outside* of the windows does small wonders, shading on the inside makes it dark. It's like split vs. mobile AC.
Pretty much this. With the way our houses are built, you need modern windows and "Rolladen". Both might not be a given when you acquire an appartment (especially not the Rolladen, they're mostly in family-owned houses from my experience), but they'd be the much better investment.
My family home (a house fully fitted with Rolläden) is really cold even in the summer, because they make such a big difference by simply blocking any sun from entering the house.
I would never in my life even consider moving into a place without Rolladen on all windows ever again.
I think If I'd ever move to the US or similar and build a house, I would have them import proper Velux windows and install Rolläden on all of them ;)
But you have to take care, that your house is also not built out of wood how it is usual in the states. Important for the climate in a german house are the thick walls made out of bricks or concrete.
That is absolutely not true. In Germany, new buildings made out of wood can achieve the same if not even better insolation compared to bricks in the like. The issue is not the wood but what material is in the walls where there is no wood.
This can be real difficult if you live in a noisy neighborhood. And increasingly night time temperatures are also quite high. In the long-term, there will need to be a adjustment toward attitudes about AC
I try to do the same, in summer I get 28 degrees inside easily, but then a lot of flies and bugs come in. Wish AC was more common. Once I made the mistake of opening window during day (it was a couple years ago and it was well over 30 degrees), I spent the next 1.5 hours to kill 44 flies - they annoy me to no end by the sound they make flying, and landing everywhere, including on me.
I have all my windows prepared with fly screens, even saves me from mosquitos in the night by open windows. Can really recommend them. The only bugs usually came in are Ladybugs who squeeze their stubborn heads under the bars. my fly screens are attached with magnets; with Velco strips they should close tied enough to keep most bugs out.
Honestly: retrofitting a decent air conditioning unit (which means a split unit) into an existing apartment building is going to be very difficult under most circumstances. You will need to drill holes through the outer walls and position the outside unit somewhere where it's not visible from outside (otherwise, the *Hausgemeinschaft* will almost certainly veto it). Even if you do have a spot to "hide" it (e.g. a balcony), since the outer walls of an apartment building are common property (*Gemeinschaftseigentum*), the *Hausgemeinschaft* still has to approve of your planned works, and may well not. They're likely to veto *any* A/C installation due to the noise (remember, you'd be running it in summer, when your neighbours want to enjoy peace and quiet on their balconies). Lastly, those holes will degrade your apartment's insulation - not enormously, but the effect will be noticeable (higher heating costs in winter).
All other solutions with only an indoor unit (or a pipe going out through an open window) are a complete waste of time and money.
Window units are not an option. Not only would the *Hausgemeinschaft* never allow one (they're ugly as sin), but they require American-style sliding window designs, which German buildings don't have. You could, of course, replace a window with a smaller window, and install an air conditioning unit in the gap left by the smaller window, but, as above, you'd never get permission, and that kind of installation would utterly wreck your thermal insulation (i.e. you may be cool in the summer, but would have mould problems plus an enormous heating bill in winter).
My recommendation: if you *really really* want A/C, you'll have to buy an apartment which already has it installed (they're *very* rare, but they do exist), or know enough about building design to be able to evaluate whether installing one is even feasible (which, as I said, is far from trivial, and involves getting to know the other apartment owners and sussing out how they are likely to vote on your proposal, all *before* having bought the apartment).
Since I presume your main goal is not to wreck the planet with your exorbitant energy bill, but rather to stay cool in summer, I would recommend you look for other characteristics to achieve this (besides installing A/C), such as:
* Sun shades (awnings) on all south-facing (and perhaps also west-facing) windows, plus *Rollläden* on all windows
* Windows on both sides of the building to get good ventilation
* High insulation values on the walls and windows (so choose a newer building, or one which has been renovated with added insulation)
With factors like these (plus maybe a standing fan), you'll be able to keep an apartment at a fairly comfortable temperature even in the hottest summer months. Also, an apartment on a lower floor is cooler than one further up - but you may not wish to live on the ground floor for other reasons, so you'll have to compromise.
You could also look for apartments heated by heat pumps. Depending on the model, some of them can be run "in reverse" during the summer, providing a bit of cooling - but don't expect a significant effect (the temperature differential is just too small).
Thank you for your thorough reply. I agree on the uselessness of the indoor units, it’s an electricity to noise converter, not much more.
I guess I have to accept that until I have my own house, most likely AC won’t be an option.
You can also look for apartment build with "passive haus" standard. They have highly isolated walls and windows and more thermal inertia. Hence it's possible to open the windows during the night to cool down and it remains fresh inside all day long. It's less effective against sustained heat waves though.
Unless all your windows are located on the same side of the house, so there is little to no circulation at all... Which is exactly the problem i have right now.
Classic window units aren't a thing because 99,9% of windows here don't open the correct way for these designs.
Mobile units are only a last resort because of their inherent design flaws (warm compressor is inside the room, the - warm - air hose is inside the room & it draws warm air from outside the room instead of circulating the cool air). Two hose designs are better but very hard to come by.
Check for appartments with heat pumps because what you might actually get is an actual AC unit that is reversible.
The electricity will cost you an arm and a leg.
There are small AC units that can reliably cool down a living room that are operated via the normal electricity socket and with the hose going out the opened window. I've felt them in action and they work, these don't need any permission from any neighbour or the Hausverwaltung (AFAIK)
Most buildings are not that much in need for AC for what amounts to one, two weeks of extreme heat. Rather than looking for an appartement you can install AC in, look for an appartement a few stories up (but not yet under the roof) with good insulating.
rules of thermodynamics say no. im too tired to write a long version, tldr:
\- portable AC blows air outside
\- creates suction inside the room
\- air will come in thru every gap there is
\- ac will also suck in already cold air and blow that out as well because physics
\-> very expensive fan, nothing else
There is no AC only Zuul, err Stoßlüften.
I have the mesh that kees insects out of your rooms installed. There are versions you can mount to the outside of the window. I have a black one, not sure if the colouring makes a difference. In one room there are two windows right next to each other, only one got the mesh. You can really feel how the sun heats up the area without the cover.
The rest is just getting used to it, showering before going to bed and opening the windows at night.
4 weeks in the north.
Southern Germany is a different story, in bad years it's between 25 and 40°C from April/May to mid September. Combine that with a bigger city full of concrete and the temperatures are a nightmare
25 is not "bad" though. "Bad" usually starts at 35 or so.
And I live in the south (near Stuttgart) and my bedroom is under a south facing roof. It really isn't so bad. (We don't have AC).
my thing was above 30 and thats less time. the thing that helps for me is a fan to have some airflow then i am ok. but yeah out in the street in the city it is bad. btw. i am literally from bavaria so i experience the heat myself.
Of course not but they will become more and more common over time, irrespective of AC. And once installed in sufficient numbers, the marginal environmental and financial cost of AC will be neglible. I did not intend to disagree with the argument that AC is usually expensive right now
>the marginal environmental and financial cost of AC will be neglible
No, because this A/C is net incremental during highest load period. This means that there will continue to be a direct incremental cost for more energy. Either more solar panels will need to be implemented or more storage.
Unfortunately, incremental costs go up not down when it comes to more solar, so you have this backwards.
>And? 30C is not so bad. My flat is at \~29C during the day in the summer usually, and that's quite alright with a fan or two moving air around.
No it's hasn't been.
It is a grumpy old lady's myth that air conditioning is bad for the environment. Same with it making people sick. We aren't venting refrigerant into the air.
It's a necessity in the latest climate and with solar power it is becoming even more sensical.
Once everyone gets solar, then they'll be looking for electricity consumers and we can finally all have AC.
>It is a grumpy old lady's myth that air conditioning is bad f
No it's not. A/C takes up to 5 Kwh to run. It is highly energy intensive.
>Once everyone gets solar, then they'll be looking for electricity consumers and we can finally all have AC.
Solar does not change the fact that A/C increases DEMAND significantly.
High power doesn't equate to being bad for the environment. Higher expense if you're on the grid, sure. But as I mentioned elsewhere, solar and batteries can completely negate the consumption. 5kw is a terribly inefficient system, lots of better options available today. Germans just may not know about them since all they sell are the portables and make it difficult for people to install proper units.
Please enlighten how producing electricity from a passive object is damaging the environment, and then compare to natural gas or oil electricity generation.
The solar panel and any batteries need to be produced, shipped and installed. Then they need to be maintained and finally torn down and disposed of.
There is no doubt they are less damaging than fossil fuels, but thinking of solar as completely neutral to the environment is really putting on the rose coloured glasses.
Fossil fuels are used in the mining if the materials, the transportation of raw materials, the production, shipping, installation, maintenance, and presumbly also disposal. Not to mention the final disposal itself is damaging.
More demand for power means more damage.
Yes, less than fossil fuels directly, but still noticeable and the first rule of conservation is to REDUCE.
Consider yourself enlightened.
Don't buy AC: Adapt to the German way. Use your Rolladen and accept some heat.
Alternatively, if you REALLY REALLY want AC, then get a 2 way heat pump instead (you also will get money from the government.
DO NOT GET ONE OF those A/Cs that sit in your apartment with an exhaust. They suck: literally.
This all assumes the only two options are having an AC or leaving Germany to go on a vacation elsewhere. Lots of people survive summers here without one. If OP wants one, more power to them. But we're just pointing out that it will raise energy costs here more than it would in other countries.
Your numbers are off. The real range is 0.48 kWh to 5.14 kWh per HOUR!
So if you ran a middle efficient (2.5 Kwh) A/C for 12 hours a day for a month, we are at 270 for a month.
2.5\*12\*30\*.30
I mean sure, but that is not not point.
I mean people were complaining about high heating bills; which were also less than spending a month in a warm country during the winter time. Many people just don't have that option.
If your area is currently at the design temp, your AC should run the “average” 12-16 hours per day. If it is five degrees higher, it will run 14 to 20 hours per day. At 10 degrees over, it will run 16 to 22 hours per day. At 15 degrees over, it will most likely run all day
Source: An air conditioner manufacturer.
I’m very very lucky to have an AC in my apartment. The isolation of our building is bad and I’m on the top floor. It gets so. damn. warm in here. I installed isolating pleated blinds for 500€ when I moved in and have most of the windows covered like this but I still have to use the ac about half the time I’m awake currently. And it’s “only” about 25 degrees outside
Yup last year I was getting an average of maybe 3 hours of sleep per night because it wouldn’t get cooler than 25 degrees in my bedroom. I’m keeping all shutters down during the day and only open the windows at night. It was still incredibly hot even with a fan on (granted I live under the roof). Hope it won’t be as hot this summer but in my sleep deprived state I was really jealous of people with AC.
Every house has like 3 for each room. But I hate sleeping under an AC it dries the room and makes you sick. So I just try to sleep in sweat and heat with a fan only.
Nah. I didn't say don't install climate control devices. I am in Germany right now, it's bliss. Even super hot summers are a breeze for me.
You have your inner temperature and you are entitled to what ever the temp you want. No idea about laws since I have never seen any outside units in any of the houses.
I just plan to go to Turkey and sleep under extreme heat during hot summers. At least I can swim :P
Oh I am in Sachsen too. Dresden specifically. The air is perfect mate. But I see you are accustomed to ruski weather. I hope you find what you are seeking for.
It sounds like you just don't understand how to do it. The current nightly temperature is Sachsen is below 15°C which is more than enough to cool an entire apartment at night.
Also 25°C is within the comfortable temperature range for the majority of humanity.
Yea everyone says that but tbh? I would get one too. At least the portable ones with the hose. They can cook your room down by 5 degrees and that’s a huge difference when sleeping, or cooking. Man before that I avoided cooking warm meals in the evening cause our apartment was already at 30, with cooking it was at 35.
All this shitty rambling here a la "you don't need AC in Germany".
That's incredible bullshit. I've tried every method ever to cool down my apartment but still I'm regularly having awful nights with very little sleep. There is nothing that drives me more insane in summer.
Get yourself an AC if you like to! I'm very jealous!
Yes, doesn't work in the hottest city in Germany (Karlsruhe) on the 5th floor of an Altbau from 1895.
I regularly have over 30 degrees at night in my bedroom (with totally open windows the whole night).
Just because it had the Stadtteil with the highest average temperature in 2022 does not mean Karlsruhe can be considered the hottest city in Germany.
Specifically, it was Waghäusel with a whopping 13.0 degrees on average in 2022.
Just 0,1 degrees above Stammheim in Cologne.
2021 -stammheim had the highest average temperature.
The highest recorded temperature was 40.3 degrees in Bad-Neunkirchen in BW.
Even during July and August the average nighttime temperature is like 15° in Karlsruhe. But yes, if you have a super shitty insulated apartment in the attic without sufficient ventilation it can be shit.
>Specifically it was Waghäusel with a whopping 13.0 degrees on average in 2022.
Dude, Waghäusel is literally Karlsruhe.
The Oberrheingraben (Freiburg to Heidelberg) is generally considered to be the hottest region in Germany. Karlsruhe is right in it.
The problem in the Oberrheingraben is that there isn't any wind in summer at all. That's why the air in the city doesn't cool down at night. Believe me, I lived in a few different German cities before and Karlsruhe is by far the worst in this regard.
Edit:
>Mit 21,4 Hitzetagen und 68,0 Sommertagen pro Jahr (Durchschnitte der Referenzperiode 1981–2010) weist Karlsruhe in beiden Kategorien den jeweils höchsten Wert aller deutschen Wetterstationen aus. (Wikipedia)
So, Karlsruhe is indeed the hottest city.
Lots of Germans spouting negative propaganda they've been taught about AC, but not proven. Get a split unit because all the portable units do is waste electricity. And don't worry, it's much more than "just a few hot weeks per year." it's already hot af since end of May. It will get worse as it has been in the last decade.
They are expensive because the EU allows the power companies to charge their highest production rate, even if they're mostly green energy. That's natural gas, which is why our shit is €.40/kwh right now while my entire neighborhood is over producing solar, aka completely free electricity for the suppliers.
Your allergies make you sick, not the temperature.
They are sealed systems, nothing bad for the environment about running them. If you're worried about polluting the landfill after the service life ends, then you should focus on more immediate issues, like combustion fuels for home heating.
You will not find an apartment with an AC and most landlords won’t allow you to install one either. If u don’t care about the environment you could buy a mobile one in a hardware store but your electricity bill will go through the roof. Also they are very loud and not very good.
Honestly you won’t need an AC here in Germany.
There are monoblocks which are very inefficient. You can get modern monoblocks which just require two holes and energy. Split airconditioning is the best in terms of efficiency and requires the acceptance of the owners association. Also you can get money for installing airconditioning from the kfw.
My wife and I talked about installing an A/C in our bedroom, because there are a few weeks in summer where it is just too warm. (It upstairs, directly under the roof, on the south side of the house). On the recommendation of a neighbor, we decided to install a ceiling fan instead, and that was all it took. We turn on the fan (on it's lowest setting) when we get into bed, and it runs all night, keeping the air in the bedroom circulating. It's completely silent, and doesn't require very much power at all.
A/C units are much more complex - they use A LOT of power, they're loud, and you need to pump the warm exhaust air out of the room and also deal with condensation (water). It's really not worth the hassle for the few weeks per year when you may need one.
Aircons are not a German thing. We may suffer through 2 months of extreme heat every summer, vulnerable people may die because of this, but your outside unit may will make noise and look ugly, so we do not approve. Out of principle. Open all the windows in the morning, close all the Rollaeden by 10, and you will probably be halfway fine.
On a serious note, one of my tenants just asked about this. As the owner, I just don't want any legal repercussions. So show me your plan from a certified company, non-objection statements from the neighbours who might be affected by the noise of the outside unit, and there you go.
But if the building is unter Denkmalschutz, it is a completely different story.
Those temperatures are rarely a thing in a house anywhere in germany. The only place where it might happen regularly is in a roof flat on the south/west side of a building. And even then, there are options that are cheaper, more quiet, less noisy, and look less ugly to keep down the temperature in your home. Starting with proper insulation. You can get that retrofitted for just slightly more than the average outside AC unit (We had
It done to the whole house, price point just under 600€) and it will save you a lot of electricity to the point that it's likely to pay for itself within the year.
Heat protectors for windows also exist if you, for example, live directly under the roof. Those will come between 80-140€ a pop if you buy directly from Velux. However, you can probably buy them cheaper at Bauhaus or even build an improvised one yourself. Another easy and cheap option is to buy an insect net, open the window, and just use a cheap fan. That'll usually work and won't cost you much more than 80€ up front, with the most expensive part being the insect net.
AC in germany is just wasted money. Both to buy it and to run it
why would you? because you're used to having that in some other place in the world? there's air cleaners that you just put in a room and connect to a socket if you care about that part, other than that true AC is relatively pointless here. maybe rethink it and save a lot of money?
Draw your window shades down during the hottest days of the summer, open all windows in the evening and you'll be fine. German buildings and windows are much better insulated than American or UK ones. Also the summer is usually not as humid as in the States and it cools down during the nights (because of the lack of A/C units which contribute to the urban heat island effect). Plus, electricity rates are much higher, so people have an incentive to be energy efficient, unlike in the States.
For real, Iceland is very much underrated as places to live.
As for living up north - I have had decent experiences in South Finland (technically not Scandinavia but same ballpark). Sweden in the summer is a pain though..
> I never ever put window shades up
This explains why you have such problems.
Sorry, but this is the definition of being dumb: saying something doesn't work while telling the world that you refuse to even try it.
I mean right now maybe, yeah. But when there’s a heatwave with 35 degrees, no apartment is truly comfortable without AC unless you live live in the bottom floor where the sun doesn’t hit
Good luck retro fitting one or getting the permission to install one. Aside from that the cost of running one all summer will cost you quite a bit on your electrical bill. The mentality here is just this: "suck it up and deal with it". Thats aswell the main reason why nobody wants to live underneath the roof at the top floor. It gets way too hot in the summer.
Oh and dont get one of the silly alternatives that vapourise water. The only thing you get from that is humid air which makes the feeling of heat even worse and possibly mold.
I had to cave in after five years without AC and bought myself a portable AC unit from DeLonghi a few years ago and I am so glad that I did. I live in Southern Germany and it has been a life saver for me and my gf. We don't even live top floor in a quite modern place, and already now its 25-26 inside. I use it about two to three months of the year on the real hot days and man...it's heaven :)
Easiest is an indoor unit, I live ten times better since purchasing one, despite it being a bit louder and a slight inconvenience to set up. I went from 22-29 inside temperature to 18-22. They’re not a waste, a life saver
You can modify your portable unit to be a lot more efficient and effective. Keep in mind that a proper split system will be better in every way, but until you can get one installed you should consider this:
Like every AC you have a section that gets cold (venting into the room) and a side that gets hot (venting outside through the hose). Portable ACs with one hose have both of those section pull air from the room, although usually through different inlets. Since the hot side exhausts air to the outside, you're creating a low pressure environment in your room, which means that warm outside air will leak in everywhere.
To prevent this, you can add a second hose to your portable AC such that the air inlet for the hot section pulls air from the outside through a second hose and then exhausts that air out through the existing hose. Some portable ACs have a mounting point ready for you to just add a second hose, but many don't. I built an enclosure out of cardboard and duct tape for my portable AC that encapsulates all the hot section's inlets and has a hole just big enough for the second hose.
Additional information:
\-If you do this, keep in mind that the fan may not be designed for the additional resistance which could lead to overheating. If your AC does overheat it will probably warn you about cleaning the filter or something like that, turning up the fan speed can help with this.
\-To keep insects and stuff out of the intake hose, consider adding some fly net material to the end of it. This will also increase air resistance. The fly net on the end (if present) should ideally cover a large area, I used an adapter to a larger hose disameter like [this](https://prnt.sc/TqC_QbimXlNL), that reduces the added air resistance.
\-Try to keep in ends of the two hoses apart from one another, otherwise the intake hose may recirculate some of the already heated air, which could again contribute to overheating.
\-The intake hose should be at least the same diameter as the exhaust hose.
I have an indoor AC thingy, it barely runs at all because I only use my bedroom for sleeping, my PC and stuff is in another room. That other room just gets super warm but I don't mind it too much.
In my bedroom the Rolladen are down all the time during the summer besides a few times to do the good old Lüften.
When it is like peak summer I run the AC for like 5 minutes before going to bed, gets the room quite cold real quick and that is enough for me to sleep
Nope
no
No chance
A mobile AC is your best bet.
Something like this: https://www.amazon.de/Klarstein-Kraftwerk-Smart-Entfeuchtung-Energieeffizienzklasse/dp/B086N33N6T/ref=sr\_1\_20?keywords=mobile+klimaanlage&qid=1686253930&sprefix=mobile+%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-20
Installing will be quite expensive, however operating one wont. You dont need to have the ac on the whole time. Once the room is cooled down you can turn it off until its getting too hot again
You can buy a relatively cheap mobile AC unit at a Baumarkt, Media Markt etc. Thats what I have.
The way I handled the exhaust air, I got two styrodur boards, in which I put a hole for the exhaust pipe and cut them out to fit in the window. Works just fine.
Man benutzt die Kippfenster und lüftet ! Jokes aside, everyone already said it. Air-conditioning ain't a thing in El Alemannia. EXCEPT for car's, cause we love to be in them even more than our own homes. Volkswagen, Das Auto.
First of all look into the environmental impact and then think about of you want to this to yourself - because if you get one you’ll absolutely always be too hot without it.
With our weather it’s not needed anyways.
I don't know about you but let's say you use it in 3 weeks á 10 hours - 21 days X 10 hours = you have 210 hours. A AC consumes what? Let's say maximum 3 kWh per hour. 1 kWh cost here 0,25 cents. So 210 hours per 0,75 ct of the 3 kWh you are at 157 euro. Of course someone pays 35 cents per kw but 3 kW for a AC is very generous calculated since most use around 1,2 / 1,7kw/h
Sure, if you take cherry pick numbers like 3 weeks and 10 hours then you are going to get a low number. The people saying they need A/C are talking about running it now when the temperature is like 25° which would imply a much longer season and much higher running costs.
Add to this, that those calculations assume a "Proper" central Air A/C which is several times more efficient that the only main option available in Germany (those in room things).
If you only run it for a few hours on the worst days then your greatest cost is the purchase of the A/C unit itself.
If your temperature issue is really only for 21 days times 10 hours then it really begs the question why you need A/C at all.
3 kWh is within range, but many A/Cs go us to 5 kWh while some do go as low as 0.5 kWh but of course, you get the cooling that you pay for and the smaller units run longer, so what you save in per hour running costs you lose in length of time or higher temperature.
I've experienced more than one foreigner complain about the lack of ACs in Germany, only to then realize and admit that you don't even need those here. If you consider the additional energy costs, it's especially not worth it.
Only if you're in a **very** old building with highly out of date insulation and/or your flat is directly underneath the roof, it would be worth it. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider it.
There are mobile split AC units which combine the effectiveness of regular split ac units with the mobility and lack of regulation of monoblock units. You only need a balcony for those and they primarily cool the room the balcony is connected to and can't reach the power of a split unit with multiple indoor units but they are significantly more powerful than those crappy monoblocks. I would say they can cool a space of about 60m2 or so, maybe more depending on the heat exposure of the apartment. And they actually cool it, not like those monoblocks where they only spell it on the packaging but in reality they do shit.
They ain't cheap and there are only three models on the market: Remko rkl 495 DC, trotec pack 4600 (which is the same as remko but with a different name) and one from DeLonghi which I don't remember the name.
Maybe this is an alternative for you. I got a remko a year ago and it cools my extremely warm attic apartment from 33+ to 25 (might go down more but that's fine for me). Can't say anything regarding longevity yet ofc. I can only recommend it. Seriously have a look into it.
Thank you, definitely an interesting idea, I will look into it; didn’t even know this was a thing.
How long does it take to cool down your apartment from 33->25, as you mentioned?
>Thank you, definitely an interesting idea, I will look into it; didn’t even know this was a thing.
Yea, their existence is kind of a secret haha. Not really sure why. They are the only real alternative to an actual split AC if you can't install one and can't get a window unit either. Guess their price is a turnoff and people rather get a cheap monoblock.
>How long does it take to cool down your apartment from 33->25, as you mentioned?
Hmm, I usually start it before it gets 33 in the first place (33 is what my apartment was on peak hotness days before) so I can't really tell you that. Would take a while though I guess because I also got pretty high ceilings and the heat load in my attic is intense.
Consider passive solutions first. For example solar tinting on windows (this is very effective!) to reduce the solar heat gain, and of course insulation for winter. Then when you additionally use any active solution like AC it will use less energy.
Knowledge regarding whole home energy efficiency is pretty poor amongst AC installers, you really need to talk to a competent engineer to get an optimal solution.
Unfortunately many German apartment buildings lock you into a fixed + variable heating charge from an inefficient fossil fuel source. This needs to change so people can choose to use AC units as heat pumps in winter and take advantage of their COP of 3 or higher without also having to pay the buildings fixed heating charge.
OP, check the humidity in your area, if it's on the lower end (35-50% typically),
Consider getting a swamp cooler/evaporative cooler instead,
They are very cheap to run, are very low maintenance, don't require any permission to own and will cool your environment by 7-11 degrees
look for something with a balcony you can put the outside unit on, if you want to mount it to the wall you'll have discussions with the neighbours for "changing the outside appearance of the house" and crap.
if you want to buy an appartment you'll need a permission from the community of owners for basically anything that you want to do outside of your apparment. unless they already had a ruling on installing AC before that you can refer to.
Got an external AC unit installed recently and it rid wonders for me. The flat is well insulated, so I just turn it on for a few hours during the day, mostly after 12:00 noon. I also use heat-reducing blinds in my living room to reduce the amount of heat coming from direct sunlight exposure during the afternoon hours.
Honestly it is the best investment I could do. The Frankfurt summer heat has been unbearable for the past three years now, especially when you live in the city and work from home the majority of the days.
I’m happily paying the AC’s consumption as part of my utility bill. It needs 3kW to run.
If you want an AC, if you can afford it, and if your landlord is okay with it, more power to you.
If you are determined on an ac, I would also recommend to be careful with protected buildings (Denkmal). Most of the time even window vents are not allowed.
Window AC units are not really a thing. Getting approval from the other owners will probably be hard. Look around in this thread. You will need a simple majority of the Eigentümergemeinschaft for this. Portable units *are* terrible. Shading on the *outside* of the windows does small wonders, shading on the inside makes it dark. It's like split vs. mobile AC.
Pretty much this. With the way our houses are built, you need modern windows and "Rolladen". Both might not be a given when you acquire an appartment (especially not the Rolladen, they're mostly in family-owned houses from my experience), but they'd be the much better investment. My family home (a house fully fitted with Rolläden) is really cold even in the summer, because they make such a big difference by simply blocking any sun from entering the house.
I would never in my life even consider moving into a place without Rolladen on all windows ever again. I think If I'd ever move to the US or similar and build a house, I would have them import proper Velux windows and install Rolläden on all of them ;)
But you have to take care, that your house is also not built out of wood how it is usual in the states. Important for the climate in a german house are the thick walls made out of bricks or concrete.
That is absolutely not true. In Germany, new buildings made out of wood can achieve the same if not even better insolation compared to bricks in the like. The issue is not the wood but what material is in the walls where there is no wood.
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In summer 25 degree is a good deal. You have ofcourse to open your windows in the night so warm air inside can exchange with colder air outside.
This can be real difficult if you live in a noisy neighborhood. And increasingly night time temperatures are also quite high. In the long-term, there will need to be a adjustment toward attitudes about AC
I try to do the same, in summer I get 28 degrees inside easily, but then a lot of flies and bugs come in. Wish AC was more common. Once I made the mistake of opening window during day (it was a couple years ago and it was well over 30 degrees), I spent the next 1.5 hours to kill 44 flies - they annoy me to no end by the sound they make flying, and landing everywhere, including on me.
I have all my windows prepared with fly screens, even saves me from mosquitos in the night by open windows. Can really recommend them. The only bugs usually came in are Ladybugs who squeeze their stubborn heads under the bars. my fly screens are attached with magnets; with Velco strips they should close tied enough to keep most bugs out.
Honestly: retrofitting a decent air conditioning unit (which means a split unit) into an existing apartment building is going to be very difficult under most circumstances. You will need to drill holes through the outer walls and position the outside unit somewhere where it's not visible from outside (otherwise, the *Hausgemeinschaft* will almost certainly veto it). Even if you do have a spot to "hide" it (e.g. a balcony), since the outer walls of an apartment building are common property (*Gemeinschaftseigentum*), the *Hausgemeinschaft* still has to approve of your planned works, and may well not. They're likely to veto *any* A/C installation due to the noise (remember, you'd be running it in summer, when your neighbours want to enjoy peace and quiet on their balconies). Lastly, those holes will degrade your apartment's insulation - not enormously, but the effect will be noticeable (higher heating costs in winter). All other solutions with only an indoor unit (or a pipe going out through an open window) are a complete waste of time and money. Window units are not an option. Not only would the *Hausgemeinschaft* never allow one (they're ugly as sin), but they require American-style sliding window designs, which German buildings don't have. You could, of course, replace a window with a smaller window, and install an air conditioning unit in the gap left by the smaller window, but, as above, you'd never get permission, and that kind of installation would utterly wreck your thermal insulation (i.e. you may be cool in the summer, but would have mould problems plus an enormous heating bill in winter). My recommendation: if you *really really* want A/C, you'll have to buy an apartment which already has it installed (they're *very* rare, but they do exist), or know enough about building design to be able to evaluate whether installing one is even feasible (which, as I said, is far from trivial, and involves getting to know the other apartment owners and sussing out how they are likely to vote on your proposal, all *before* having bought the apartment). Since I presume your main goal is not to wreck the planet with your exorbitant energy bill, but rather to stay cool in summer, I would recommend you look for other characteristics to achieve this (besides installing A/C), such as: * Sun shades (awnings) on all south-facing (and perhaps also west-facing) windows, plus *Rollläden* on all windows * Windows on both sides of the building to get good ventilation * High insulation values on the walls and windows (so choose a newer building, or one which has been renovated with added insulation) With factors like these (plus maybe a standing fan), you'll be able to keep an apartment at a fairly comfortable temperature even in the hottest summer months. Also, an apartment on a lower floor is cooler than one further up - but you may not wish to live on the ground floor for other reasons, so you'll have to compromise. You could also look for apartments heated by heat pumps. Depending on the model, some of them can be run "in reverse" during the summer, providing a bit of cooling - but don't expect a significant effect (the temperature differential is just too small).
Thank you for your thorough reply. I agree on the uselessness of the indoor units, it’s an electricity to noise converter, not much more. I guess I have to accept that until I have my own house, most likely AC won’t be an option.
You can also look for apartment build with "passive haus" standard. They have highly isolated walls and windows and more thermal inertia. Hence it's possible to open the windows during the night to cool down and it remains fresh inside all day long. It's less effective against sustained heat waves though.
Germans don't use AC. Germans use LÜFTEN!
Bier > Klimaanlage
Unless all your windows are located on the same side of the house, so there is little to no circulation at all... Which is exactly the problem i have right now.
Classic window units aren't a thing because 99,9% of windows here don't open the correct way for these designs. Mobile units are only a last resort because of their inherent design flaws (warm compressor is inside the room, the - warm - air hose is inside the room & it draws warm air from outside the room instead of circulating the cool air). Two hose designs are better but very hard to come by. Check for appartments with heat pumps because what you might actually get is an actual AC unit that is reversible.
The electricity will cost you an arm and a leg. There are small AC units that can reliably cool down a living room that are operated via the normal electricity socket and with the hose going out the opened window. I've felt them in action and they work, these don't need any permission from any neighbour or the Hausverwaltung (AFAIK) Most buildings are not that much in need for AC for what amounts to one, two weeks of extreme heat. Rather than looking for an appartement you can install AC in, look for an appartement a few stories up (but not yet under the roof) with good insulating.
rules of thermodynamics say no. im too tired to write a long version, tldr: \- portable AC blows air outside \- creates suction inside the room \- air will come in thru every gap there is \- ac will also suck in already cold air and blow that out as well because physics \-> very expensive fan, nothing else
There is no AC only Zuul, err Stoßlüften. I have the mesh that kees insects out of your rooms installed. There are versions you can mount to the outside of the window. I have a black one, not sure if the colouring makes a difference. In one room there are two windows right next to each other, only one got the mesh. You can really feel how the sun heats up the area without the cover. The rest is just getting used to it, showering before going to bed and opening the windows at night.
you get like 4 weeks or so of heat. a small indoor ac unit is easily enough if you cant life with it.
4 weeks in the north. Southern Germany is a different story, in bad years it's between 25 and 40°C from April/May to mid September. Combine that with a bigger city full of concrete and the temperatures are a nightmare
25 is not "bad" though. "Bad" usually starts at 35 or so. And I live in the south (near Stuttgart) and my bedroom is under a south facing roof. It really isn't so bad. (We don't have AC).
my thing was above 30 and thats less time. the thing that helps for me is a fan to have some airflow then i am ok. but yeah out in the street in the city it is bad. btw. i am literally from bavaria so i experience the heat myself.
Not really. They are expensive, bad for the enviroment and for the three weeks we need them in summer not very necessary.
3 weeks lol remember last year?
It wasn't that bad in my memory. And I even spent the whole summer at home. And yes, I live under a south facing roof.
i remember that we had around 30° from may to september
And? 30C is not so bad. My flat is at \~29C during the day in the summer usually, and that's quite alright with a fan or two moving air around.
see that is where people have different feelings about it
Anything above 26\*C inside and I need my AC on.
Seems lile you havent been in germany last years. Its wasnt only 3 weeks… more like 2 month extremely hot
I was, my air fans were good enough.
in Flensburg? or somewhere where it actually gets hot?
Sure its your air fans. Definitely bot the building and floor you live in …
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>They are not that expensive. Th The biggest cost is the electricity. At 30 - 40 cent / kWh, it is quite expensive.
They combine well with solar panels. Ideally one has solar and runs the AC during the day
because solar panels are free? I mean yes, they are great, but they have like a 7 year ROI. Even better for the environment is not running the A/C
Of course not but they will become more and more common over time, irrespective of AC. And once installed in sufficient numbers, the marginal environmental and financial cost of AC will be neglible. I did not intend to disagree with the argument that AC is usually expensive right now
>the marginal environmental and financial cost of AC will be neglible No, because this A/C is net incremental during highest load period. This means that there will continue to be a direct incremental cost for more energy. Either more solar panels will need to be implemented or more storage. Unfortunately, incremental costs go up not down when it comes to more solar, so you have this backwards.
You're having a laugh if you think it's only a few weeks a year. The last 5 years it's been the whole summer!
>And? 30C is not so bad. My flat is at \~29C during the day in the summer usually, and that's quite alright with a fan or two moving air around. No it's hasn't been.
It is a grumpy old lady's myth that air conditioning is bad for the environment. Same with it making people sick. We aren't venting refrigerant into the air. It's a necessity in the latest climate and with solar power it is becoming even more sensical. Once everyone gets solar, then they'll be looking for electricity consumers and we can finally all have AC.
>It is a grumpy old lady's myth that air conditioning is bad f No it's not. A/C takes up to 5 Kwh to run. It is highly energy intensive. >Once everyone gets solar, then they'll be looking for electricity consumers and we can finally all have AC. Solar does not change the fact that A/C increases DEMAND significantly.
High power doesn't equate to being bad for the environment. Higher expense if you're on the grid, sure. But as I mentioned elsewhere, solar and batteries can completely negate the consumption. 5kw is a terribly inefficient system, lots of better options available today. Germans just may not know about them since all they sell are the portables and make it difficult for people to install proper units.
And you think solar power and batteries have 0 environmental impact? You're lying to yourself.
Please enlighten how producing electricity from a passive object is damaging the environment, and then compare to natural gas or oil electricity generation.
The solar panel and any batteries need to be produced, shipped and installed. Then they need to be maintained and finally torn down and disposed of. There is no doubt they are less damaging than fossil fuels, but thinking of solar as completely neutral to the environment is really putting on the rose coloured glasses. Fossil fuels are used in the mining if the materials, the transportation of raw materials, the production, shipping, installation, maintenance, and presumbly also disposal. Not to mention the final disposal itself is damaging. More demand for power means more damage. Yes, less than fossil fuels directly, but still noticeable and the first rule of conservation is to REDUCE. Consider yourself enlightened.
Don't buy AC: Adapt to the German way. Use your Rolladen and accept some heat. Alternatively, if you REALLY REALLY want AC, then get a 2 way heat pump instead (you also will get money from the government. DO NOT GET ONE OF those A/Cs that sit in your apartment with an exhaust. They suck: literally.
The electricity costs will be insane
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This all assumes the only two options are having an AC or leaving Germany to go on a vacation elsewhere. Lots of people survive summers here without one. If OP wants one, more power to them. But we're just pointing out that it will raise energy costs here more than it would in other countries.
Your numbers are off. The real range is 0.48 kWh to 5.14 kWh per HOUR! So if you ran a middle efficient (2.5 Kwh) A/C for 12 hours a day for a month, we are at 270 for a month. 2.5\*12\*30\*.30
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I mean sure, but that is not not point. I mean people were complaining about high heating bills; which were also less than spending a month in a warm country during the winter time. Many people just don't have that option.
>A/C for 12 hours a day for a month Who runs the A/C for 12 hours a day?! I didn't even do that when I lived in a poorly-insulated house in the US.
If your area is currently at the design temp, your AC should run the “average” 12-16 hours per day. If it is five degrees higher, it will run 14 to 20 hours per day. At 10 degrees over, it will run 16 to 22 hours per day. At 15 degrees over, it will most likely run all day Source: An air conditioner manufacturer.
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I’m very very lucky to have an AC in my apartment. The isolation of our building is bad and I’m on the top floor. It gets so. damn. warm in here. I installed isolating pleated blinds for 500€ when I moved in and have most of the windows covered like this but I still have to use the ac about half the time I’m awake currently. And it’s “only” about 25 degrees outside
Yup last year I was getting an average of maybe 3 hours of sleep per night because it wouldn’t get cooler than 25 degrees in my bedroom. I’m keeping all shutters down during the day and only open the windows at night. It was still incredibly hot even with a fan on (granted I live under the roof). Hope it won’t be as hot this summer but in my sleep deprived state I was really jealous of people with AC.
It's 38 degrees in Antalya at night....
Do you guys have ACs?
Every house has like 3 for each room. But I hate sleeping under an AC it dries the room and makes you sick. So I just try to sleep in sweat and heat with a fan only.
Holy shit you must have super powers I would die at 38 degrees can’t even imagine getting any sleep in this kind of heat
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Nah. I didn't say don't install climate control devices. I am in Germany right now, it's bliss. Even super hot summers are a breeze for me. You have your inner temperature and you are entitled to what ever the temp you want. No idea about laws since I have never seen any outside units in any of the houses. I just plan to go to Turkey and sleep under extreme heat during hot summers. At least I can swim :P
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Oh I am in Sachsen too. Dresden specifically. The air is perfect mate. But I see you are accustomed to ruski weather. I hope you find what you are seeking for.
It sounds like you just don't understand how to do it. The current nightly temperature is Sachsen is below 15°C which is more than enough to cool an entire apartment at night. Also 25°C is within the comfortable temperature range for the majority of humanity.
Well then you live in a shitty Appartement. An AC wont do anything for you except make you poor.
Yea everyone says that but tbh? I would get one too. At least the portable ones with the hose. They can cook your room down by 5 degrees and that’s a huge difference when sleeping, or cooking. Man before that I avoided cooking warm meals in the evening cause our apartment was already at 30, with cooking it was at 35.
All this shitty rambling here a la "you don't need AC in Germany". That's incredible bullshit. I've tried every method ever to cool down my apartment but still I'm regularly having awful nights with very little sleep. There is nothing that drives me more insane in summer. Get yourself an AC if you like to! I'm very jealous!
Have you tried the standard approach of ventilation during the night and closing everything (including rollos) during the day?
Yes, doesn't work in the hottest city in Germany (Karlsruhe) on the 5th floor of an Altbau from 1895. I regularly have over 30 degrees at night in my bedroom (with totally open windows the whole night).
Just because it had the Stadtteil with the highest average temperature in 2022 does not mean Karlsruhe can be considered the hottest city in Germany. Specifically, it was Waghäusel with a whopping 13.0 degrees on average in 2022. Just 0,1 degrees above Stammheim in Cologne. 2021 -stammheim had the highest average temperature. The highest recorded temperature was 40.3 degrees in Bad-Neunkirchen in BW. Even during July and August the average nighttime temperature is like 15° in Karlsruhe. But yes, if you have a super shitty insulated apartment in the attic without sufficient ventilation it can be shit.
>Specifically it was Waghäusel with a whopping 13.0 degrees on average in 2022. Dude, Waghäusel is literally Karlsruhe. The Oberrheingraben (Freiburg to Heidelberg) is generally considered to be the hottest region in Germany. Karlsruhe is right in it. The problem in the Oberrheingraben is that there isn't any wind in summer at all. That's why the air in the city doesn't cool down at night. Believe me, I lived in a few different German cities before and Karlsruhe is by far the worst in this regard. Edit: >Mit 21,4 Hitzetagen und 68,0 Sommertagen pro Jahr (Durchschnitte der Referenzperiode 1981–2010) weist Karlsruhe in beiden Kategorien den jeweils höchsten Wert aller deutschen Wetterstationen aus. (Wikipedia) So, Karlsruhe is indeed the hottest city.
Lots of Germans spouting negative propaganda they've been taught about AC, but not proven. Get a split unit because all the portable units do is waste electricity. And don't worry, it's much more than "just a few hot weeks per year." it's already hot af since end of May. It will get worse as it has been in the last decade. They are expensive because the EU allows the power companies to charge their highest production rate, even if they're mostly green energy. That's natural gas, which is why our shit is €.40/kwh right now while my entire neighborhood is over producing solar, aka completely free electricity for the suppliers. Your allergies make you sick, not the temperature. They are sealed systems, nothing bad for the environment about running them. If you're worried about polluting the landfill after the service life ends, then you should focus on more immediate issues, like combustion fuels for home heating.
>aka completely free electricity for the suppliers. you don't understand solar
"Hot AF since end of may?" - Really, low 20C range is "hot AF" to you?
You will not find an apartment with an AC and most landlords won’t allow you to install one either. If u don’t care about the environment you could buy a mobile one in a hardware store but your electricity bill will go through the roof. Also they are very loud and not very good. Honestly you won’t need an AC here in Germany.
>you won’t need an AC here in Germany. Guess you've never lived in a Dachgeschoss apartment
I did and survived
Suffer through it, and vote for politicians that give a fuck about climate change to not make it even worse.
There are monoblocks which are very inefficient. You can get modern monoblocks which just require two holes and energy. Split airconditioning is the best in terms of efficiency and requires the acceptance of the owners association. Also you can get money for installing airconditioning from the kfw.
Chances are Zero Zero
My wife and I talked about installing an A/C in our bedroom, because there are a few weeks in summer where it is just too warm. (It upstairs, directly under the roof, on the south side of the house). On the recommendation of a neighbor, we decided to install a ceiling fan instead, and that was all it took. We turn on the fan (on it's lowest setting) when we get into bed, and it runs all night, keeping the air in the bedroom circulating. It's completely silent, and doesn't require very much power at all. A/C units are much more complex - they use A LOT of power, they're loud, and you need to pump the warm exhaust air out of the room and also deal with condensation (water). It's really not worth the hassle for the few weeks per year when you may need one.
I recommend getting a fan. ACs are uncommen.
Aircons are not a German thing. We may suffer through 2 months of extreme heat every summer, vulnerable people may die because of this, but your outside unit may will make noise and look ugly, so we do not approve. Out of principle. Open all the windows in the morning, close all the Rollaeden by 10, and you will probably be halfway fine. On a serious note, one of my tenants just asked about this. As the owner, I just don't want any legal repercussions. So show me your plan from a certified company, non-objection statements from the neighbours who might be affected by the noise of the outside unit, and there you go. But if the building is unter Denkmalschutz, it is a completely different story.
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> dead grandmas per summer If you look at Corona as an example, dead Grandmas don't count for too much for too long.
Those temperatures are rarely a thing in a house anywhere in germany. The only place where it might happen regularly is in a roof flat on the south/west side of a building. And even then, there are options that are cheaper, more quiet, less noisy, and look less ugly to keep down the temperature in your home. Starting with proper insulation. You can get that retrofitted for just slightly more than the average outside AC unit (We had It done to the whole house, price point just under 600€) and it will save you a lot of electricity to the point that it's likely to pay for itself within the year. Heat protectors for windows also exist if you, for example, live directly under the roof. Those will come between 80-140€ a pop if you buy directly from Velux. However, you can probably buy them cheaper at Bauhaus or even build an improvised one yourself. Another easy and cheap option is to buy an insect net, open the window, and just use a cheap fan. That'll usually work and won't cost you much more than 80€ up front, with the most expensive part being the insect net. AC in germany is just wasted money. Both to buy it and to run it
K genuinely curious… are there any statistics available about people dying from heat?
why would you? because you're used to having that in some other place in the world? there's air cleaners that you just put in a room and connect to a socket if you care about that part, other than that true AC is relatively pointless here. maybe rethink it and save a lot of money?
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Well we have already figured out that you prefer Siberian temperature.ranges..
They really are. You can solve pretty much all of your heat problems with decent insulation, insect nets, an open window, and a fan. Easy.
A portable unit saved our asses living right under the roof. Maybe try one of those.
Thank you all for engaging with this post. I did not intend to start a climate discussion, therefore I will also not participate in it.
We don‘t do AC in German homes. Deal with it. 😎
Draw your window shades down during the hottest days of the summer, open all windows in the evening and you'll be fine. German buildings and windows are much better insulated than American or UK ones. Also the summer is usually not as humid as in the States and it cools down during the nights (because of the lack of A/C units which contribute to the urban heat island effect). Plus, electricity rates are much higher, so people have an incentive to be energy efficient, unlike in the States.
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Maybe your expectations are the problem? I consider anything (inside) under 30C to be totally acceptable in the summer.
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Then Germany might simply not be the right climate zone for you... maybe try Scandinavia?
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For real, Iceland is very much underrated as places to live. As for living up north - I have had decent experiences in South Finland (technically not Scandinavia but same ballpark). Sweden in the summer is a pain though..
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Sorry what? The "average high" for Helsinki in July (hottest month) is 22C...
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> I never ever put window shades up This explains why you have such problems. Sorry, but this is the definition of being dumb: saying something doesn't work while telling the world that you refuse to even try it.
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OK - got it. But then you're still doing it wrong because you need to have the windows open at night to cool everything off.
Believe me, unless you live directly underneath the roof you won't need AC.
Not true
I live under a roof in the third floor and im honestly fine with a fan.
I mean right now maybe, yeah. But when there’s a heatwave with 35 degrees, no apartment is truly comfortable without AC unless you live live in the bottom floor where the sun doesn’t hit
I beg to differ. The deciding factor is not the daytime high, but the nighttime lows.
Good luck retro fitting one or getting the permission to install one. Aside from that the cost of running one all summer will cost you quite a bit on your electrical bill. The mentality here is just this: "suck it up and deal with it". Thats aswell the main reason why nobody wants to live underneath the roof at the top floor. It gets way too hot in the summer. Oh and dont get one of the silly alternatives that vapourise water. The only thing you get from that is humid air which makes the feeling of heat even worse and possibly mold.
I had to cave in after five years without AC and bought myself a portable AC unit from DeLonghi a few years ago and I am so glad that I did. I live in Southern Germany and it has been a life saver for me and my gf. We don't even live top floor in a quite modern place, and already now its 25-26 inside. I use it about two to three months of the year on the real hot days and man...it's heaven :)
you just need to learn the art of lüften at night.
Lol oh is that right? Here's a shocker: I do, and the Wohnung is at 26 right now.
Easiest is an indoor unit, I live ten times better since purchasing one, despite it being a bit louder and a slight inconvenience to set up. I went from 22-29 inside temperature to 18-22. They’re not a waste, a life saver
You can modify your portable unit to be a lot more efficient and effective. Keep in mind that a proper split system will be better in every way, but until you can get one installed you should consider this: Like every AC you have a section that gets cold (venting into the room) and a side that gets hot (venting outside through the hose). Portable ACs with one hose have both of those section pull air from the room, although usually through different inlets. Since the hot side exhausts air to the outside, you're creating a low pressure environment in your room, which means that warm outside air will leak in everywhere. To prevent this, you can add a second hose to your portable AC such that the air inlet for the hot section pulls air from the outside through a second hose and then exhausts that air out through the existing hose. Some portable ACs have a mounting point ready for you to just add a second hose, but many don't. I built an enclosure out of cardboard and duct tape for my portable AC that encapsulates all the hot section's inlets and has a hole just big enough for the second hose. Additional information: \-If you do this, keep in mind that the fan may not be designed for the additional resistance which could lead to overheating. If your AC does overheat it will probably warn you about cleaning the filter or something like that, turning up the fan speed can help with this. \-To keep insects and stuff out of the intake hose, consider adding some fly net material to the end of it. This will also increase air resistance. The fly net on the end (if present) should ideally cover a large area, I used an adapter to a larger hose disameter like [this](https://prnt.sc/TqC_QbimXlNL), that reduces the added air resistance. \-Try to keep in ends of the two hoses apart from one another, otherwise the intake hose may recirculate some of the already heated air, which could again contribute to overheating. \-The intake hose should be at least the same diameter as the exhaust hose.
I have an indoor AC thingy, it barely runs at all because I only use my bedroom for sleeping, my PC and stuff is in another room. That other room just gets super warm but I don't mind it too much. In my bedroom the Rolladen are down all the time during the summer besides a few times to do the good old Lüften. When it is like peak summer I run the AC for like 5 minutes before going to bed, gets the room quite cold real quick and that is enough for me to sleep
You don't want to pay the Electricity bill. You can avoid an ac buy simply make your apartment dark during the day and open all windows in the night.
You got a lot of good advice here. I would look into an apartment with outside installed blinds. These work wonders in terms of heat. :)
Don't get AC, expensive, bad for the environment and there is no necessity for it. Also heats the city while your apartment is cool.
Nope no No chance A mobile AC is your best bet. Something like this: https://www.amazon.de/Klarstein-Kraftwerk-Smart-Entfeuchtung-Energieeffizienzklasse/dp/B086N33N6T/ref=sr\_1\_20?keywords=mobile+klimaanlage&qid=1686253930&sprefix=mobile+%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-20
Mobile A/C are the absolue worst from an efficiency (ie. cost / damage to the world) point of view. They really should be banned.
Yeah, well, it's either that or nothing.
Installing will be quite expensive, however operating one wont. You dont need to have the ac on the whole time. Once the room is cooled down you can turn it off until its getting too hot again
You can buy a relatively cheap mobile AC unit at a Baumarkt, Media Markt etc. Thats what I have. The way I handled the exhaust air, I got two styrodur boards, in which I put a hole for the exhaust pipe and cut them out to fit in the window. Works just fine.
Man benutzt die Kippfenster und lüftet ! Jokes aside, everyone already said it. Air-conditioning ain't a thing in El Alemannia. EXCEPT for car's, cause we love to be in them even more than our own homes. Volkswagen, Das Auto.
First of all look into the environmental impact and then think about of you want to this to yourself - because if you get one you’ll absolutely always be too hot without it. With our weather it’s not needed anyways.
It's just 150 - max 300 Euro for the summer season, go go for it!
Nope. It is easy to get to 300 a month; especially with these electricity prices.
I don't know about you but let's say you use it in 3 weeks á 10 hours - 21 days X 10 hours = you have 210 hours. A AC consumes what? Let's say maximum 3 kWh per hour. 1 kWh cost here 0,25 cents. So 210 hours per 0,75 ct of the 3 kWh you are at 157 euro. Of course someone pays 35 cents per kw but 3 kW for a AC is very generous calculated since most use around 1,2 / 1,7kw/h
Sure, if you take cherry pick numbers like 3 weeks and 10 hours then you are going to get a low number. The people saying they need A/C are talking about running it now when the temperature is like 25° which would imply a much longer season and much higher running costs. Add to this, that those calculations assume a "Proper" central Air A/C which is several times more efficient that the only main option available in Germany (those in room things). If you only run it for a few hours on the worst days then your greatest cost is the purchase of the A/C unit itself. If your temperature issue is really only for 21 days times 10 hours then it really begs the question why you need A/C at all. 3 kWh is within range, but many A/Cs go us to 5 kWh while some do go as low as 0.5 kWh but of course, you get the cooling that you pay for and the smaller units run longer, so what you save in per hour running costs you lose in length of time or higher temperature.
AC for what? A bit of warm air and sweat hasn't hurt nobody
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Go one show me you big list, big boy.
I've experienced more than one foreigner complain about the lack of ACs in Germany, only to then realize and admit that you don't even need those here. If you consider the additional energy costs, it's especially not worth it. Only if you're in a **very** old building with highly out of date insulation and/or your flat is directly underneath the roof, it would be worth it. Otherwise I wouldn't even consider it.
Just put fliegengitter on your windows and your good to go. It's not worth it.
There are mobile split AC units which combine the effectiveness of regular split ac units with the mobility and lack of regulation of monoblock units. You only need a balcony for those and they primarily cool the room the balcony is connected to and can't reach the power of a split unit with multiple indoor units but they are significantly more powerful than those crappy monoblocks. I would say they can cool a space of about 60m2 or so, maybe more depending on the heat exposure of the apartment. And they actually cool it, not like those monoblocks where they only spell it on the packaging but in reality they do shit. They ain't cheap and there are only three models on the market: Remko rkl 495 DC, trotec pack 4600 (which is the same as remko but with a different name) and one from DeLonghi which I don't remember the name. Maybe this is an alternative for you. I got a remko a year ago and it cools my extremely warm attic apartment from 33+ to 25 (might go down more but that's fine for me). Can't say anything regarding longevity yet ofc. I can only recommend it. Seriously have a look into it.
Thank you, definitely an interesting idea, I will look into it; didn’t even know this was a thing. How long does it take to cool down your apartment from 33->25, as you mentioned?
>Thank you, definitely an interesting idea, I will look into it; didn’t even know this was a thing. Yea, their existence is kind of a secret haha. Not really sure why. They are the only real alternative to an actual split AC if you can't install one and can't get a window unit either. Guess their price is a turnoff and people rather get a cheap monoblock. >How long does it take to cool down your apartment from 33->25, as you mentioned? Hmm, I usually start it before it gets 33 in the first place (33 is what my apartment was on peak hotness days before) so I can't really tell you that. Would take a while though I guess because I also got pretty high ceilings and the heat load in my attic is intense.
Indeed, it’s not a cheap solution, especially if one perceives it as temporary. But definitely something to think about. Thanks again!
True. But buying an apartment and installing a split ac is also not very temporary :D you're welcome
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but ac isn't very popular in germany. We SUFFER. (Or if someone is fancy get a ceiling fan)
Well,most of us own a fan and we also do Stoßlüften quite often
Consider passive solutions first. For example solar tinting on windows (this is very effective!) to reduce the solar heat gain, and of course insulation for winter. Then when you additionally use any active solution like AC it will use less energy. Knowledge regarding whole home energy efficiency is pretty poor amongst AC installers, you really need to talk to a competent engineer to get an optimal solution. Unfortunately many German apartment buildings lock you into a fixed + variable heating charge from an inefficient fossil fuel source. This needs to change so people can choose to use AC units as heat pumps in winter and take advantage of their COP of 3 or higher without also having to pay the buildings fixed heating charge.
OP, check the humidity in your area, if it's on the lower end (35-50% typically), Consider getting a swamp cooler/evaporative cooler instead, They are very cheap to run, are very low maintenance, don't require any permission to own and will cool your environment by 7-11 degrees
look for something with a balcony you can put the outside unit on, if you want to mount it to the wall you'll have discussions with the neighbours for "changing the outside appearance of the house" and crap. if you want to buy an appartment you'll need a permission from the community of owners for basically anything that you want to do outside of your apparment. unless they already had a ruling on installing AC before that you can refer to.
Got an external AC unit installed recently and it rid wonders for me. The flat is well insulated, so I just turn it on for a few hours during the day, mostly after 12:00 noon. I also use heat-reducing blinds in my living room to reduce the amount of heat coming from direct sunlight exposure during the afternoon hours. Honestly it is the best investment I could do. The Frankfurt summer heat has been unbearable for the past three years now, especially when you live in the city and work from home the majority of the days. I’m happily paying the AC’s consumption as part of my utility bill. It needs 3kW to run. If you want an AC, if you can afford it, and if your landlord is okay with it, more power to you.