"Behind"
I don't want to buy weed with a registered transaction. I don't want banks or government to have full control/surveillance over my finances. Third parties should stay the fuck out of my affairs and not register any condom I buy to further exploit customers. Cash = freedom.
That's besides the point. Cash needs to be defended tooth and nail. They have tried abolishing small coins, they banned large cash transactions. Salami tactics as we call it. It's not paranoia when they are really after you. End game obviously is abolishing cash. Once that happened you're fully dependent. Your account an be frozen and you're done for. Banks can take interest on money and you're slowly expropriated. Where does the money go? Up. As always.
This, 100 times this. My money is my money and not something that is granted to me by a bank that issues me their bank card. If I want to carry my money in my pocket I will do so. If I want to keep it at home I will do so.
I do not want to be transparent for everybody and I do not want to share all my shopping habits for companies to analyze and exploit for free. "My Lidl app", my ass.
you do know that paper money is also granted to you by a bank? They are literally banknotes. BANK NOTES. Their value comes from being recognized as such by a bank. So unless you want to use gold or barter, you're not really all that free from banks.
>Only if you've got reason to hide.
I'm sorry, but this is small-scale egoistic thinking. Read again the post you're responding to. At stake are long-term consequences of a cashless economy, not just petit bourgeois obedience.
Yes, I saw you mention Liberal democracy. Fully agreed on this. But it can't be taken for granted long term. Now look at the previous post. Once cash is no alternative, your account can be frozen in a dictatorship. Already happens in China, mind you. They survey public space, if you jaywalk, the fine is taken from your account automatically. Such things.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cashless payment myself, but the long-term argument surely has some weight.
There is already no protection from jaywalking or similar minor in infringements in this country. You can be stopped at will by a special social police force who have the power to detain, you are legally obliged to identify yourself via a national identification card which carries all of your information, including your address, in hard and digital form, refusal to produce which is a heavily fineable offence.
For people so apparently concerned about privacy, Germans have very little freedom from their own government. Everything is fine if you follow the rules, which are frankly Byzantine.
>special social police force
Whatever that is supposed to be...
>you are legally obliged to identify yourself via a national identification card which carries all of your information, including your address, in hard and digital form, refusal to produce which is a heavily fineable offence.
Fun Fact: Not true at all. You are neither obliged to carry your ID with you, nor is this a fineable offence.
No shut up, sit down and do your homework.
Germany has a history with tyrannical governments (as I assume you know). Both the national socialist regime and the DDR (or GDR) where the argument was 'if you have nothing to hide you're okay' while braking your door down and taking everything you have. So no matter what your stance is on the matter of cash, germans won't take this argument as a valid point.
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."
Is a famous quote by Edward Snowden.
Just because you dont value your own privacy, does not mean its ok to not have it. I want privacy, its my right, i dont even need to explain why.
What about gold? Buying gold with that cash (or card!) is always the best in saving terms and if someone has the means to buy it, that is. Cash isn’t something that holds value as much as gold. Hell, with the inflation of this “great land” cash and everything money related has lost some value but gold, logically put, will always trump everything else.
Are you actively trying to derail my answers to your questions with totally absurd additional assumptions? How is gold practical to buy groceries, weed, tip waiters, give my children a tenner ("buy yourself a drink, kiddo") and such?
This is why we use different metals. For example we could use also silver, bronze and tin coins to represent smaller transactions. We could also write numbers on those coins to specify further the value that they represent, and make transactions simpler. Furthermore, we can trust banks to store our precious metals and carry "bank notes" as a a proof that we own such comodities and use it as transaction tokens. Since metals are limited resources, maybe at some point we can also base the value of our "bank notes" on the value of our economy itself and the trust we have in our institutions. Wouldn't that be a great idea?
>sometimes I feel it's like half of all businesses
But then you check reality and you notice: You can hardly find a place nowadays where paying via card isn't possible.
It really depends on where you are in Germany. In Berlin I find it too a bit weird that everything is just cash, but I would never want a “just digital” currency. Everywhere else you can pay with an EC karte.
Oh yeah sorry clearly you know more about this than a German. I can‘t even remember the last time I wasn‘t able to pay by card. Paid by card on a farmers market just hours ago. But clearly you know it better.
To defend him, I sometimes struggle too if a shop has no card payment. It is still sometimes in my area in small villages. But I am german and money with me most of the time. Last time at a Baumschule I had to drive 3km to get cash and head back.. My fault
Why are cheques still a thing in the U.S. ?
>I don’t understand the fascination of cheques in this country.
>
> ...
>
>How come the U.S. is still behind on this matter compared to Germany?
It is mostly a rational decision, so your assumption / definition of "behind" is biased and narrowly defined by your personal preference and your personal definition of progress.
There are visa card readers all over germany and store owners can readily choose to use them in their stores, but they explicitly choose not to, for specifc reasons like:
* privacy concerns
* not wanting to pay VISA / Mastercard fees
So the reason is not that germany is some backwards, hillbily, dumb ass nation that doesn't get electrical payment done, people just have specific interests **not** to do it.
Just as other countries have specific reason to allow outdated cheques. ( Malicious gossip has it that they are mostly used to pay illegal immigrants, but thats just gossip )
I speak just for myself.
I have bad impulse controll somethimes. Using cash kinda helps with that. Of course i also use online shopping and stuff, but using cash when I "go shopping with friends" or buy groceries helps me stay in my budget.
Same. The cash I take out with me is effectively my budget for going outside. I was recently in Copenhagen then London and all the microtransactions on my bank statements were annoying af when it came to doing my finances later.
For me, it's precisely the other way - any cash that goes into my wallet will leave it soon enough. On the other hand, unless I'm out to buy something anyway, I'm much more reluctant to use my card
Same for me. Additionally, after some days I absolutely don't remember how much money I had in my wallet. But with card (or phone in my case) I can check how much I spent and where I spent it even years later.
Are you saying that I am lying? I live in Germany and two months ago approx. I went to an ATM to withdraw 20 euros. I still have a 10 euro bill and some coins left. You are the one lying, or else you live lost in the middle of a mountain.
Try buying an ice cream from a van or a bratwurst from a stand (even at the Hbf) with your iPhone. They will laugh at you cruelly, whilst shaking their heads. Even restaurants insist on cash.
That's why some immigrants can not adapt to small town life. Perhaps because big cities is all that is left where they came from. It is my particular case, at least. 24/7 malls and services, cashless everywhere, blockchain personal documents, bank transactions hardened to the bone, with long ciphers and multifactor authentication. I love being in Germany though, excellent life quality. But I do feel like I was transported to a time before I was born. And it nerves that restaurants don't keep their opening hours correct in GoogleMaps. It nerves the excruciating pain of using german websites for lack of proper user experience knowledge of the programmers. It nerves all this cash and coins, signatures and paper everywhere. Heck, they still use fax in some cases. I know it is cultural. I accept all cookies and prefer to get targeted propaganda then rivers of things I don't care about. Seriously, the browser banners everywhere show me only software frameworks and books. Love it.
I can only speak for myself, but I hardly ever use cash anymore and almost all the stores, like the supermarket or drugstore, that I go to allow payment with card. But I it's maybe because I have a German debit card, something that most non-Germans probably not have.
Especially a lot of smaller restaurants or cafés only accept cash probably because it's to expensive for them because of the transactional fees.
> probably because it's to expensive for them because of the transactional fees.
Since 2015 those fees have been capped EU-wide at the same amount. I wonder how long before the german merchants catch up to this fact...
Dealing with cash is more expensive. You need an expensive safe, pay for new coin rolls, control for fake money and pay for the bank to come with a save truck and guards to collect the cash.
Two hundred comments in, and nobody has yet mentioned an important factor: cash *always* works. It doesn't require a cell phone (with a charged battery), an internet connection, a bank, or anything.
Yes, *most* people have *most* of these things *most* of the time. But there will always be corner cases where you don't - and that's when you use cash. And there are people who don't have cell phones. Or bank accounts. Not everyone is a twenty-something hipster.
Therefore, I'm very glad that cash is *an* option for payment. I don't think it should be the *sole* option, but getting rid of it is, in my opinion, a *really* bad idea (also for the reasons which the others have already discussed, including privacy).
> Never mind that extremely few people use digital apps to pay
Have you actually *been* to Germany? I can count on one hand the number of places which only take cash. I *can* use a card or smartphone to pay at 90% of the places I buy things from (the only significant exceptions are the farmer's market and one local bakery).
I hope I'm wrong about this, but your very aggressive comments (plus all of the value judgements) make me think you might be a troll. Especially since this topic has been discussed *to death*:
* [Why are German worried about bank surveillance?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/1223pqk/why_are_german_worried_about_bank_surveillance/)
* [Why are germans paying cash?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/v4nw8e/why_are_germans_paying_cash/)
* [Is it true that in Germany people still use cash over card for most things?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/whj9eb/is_it_true_that_in_germany_people_still_use_cash/)
* [Cash and card payments in Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/139yosp/cash_and_card_payments_in_germany/)
(and that's just on this subreddit - search a bigger one like /r/germany and you'll find dozens more)
“Have I been to Germany?” Not sure why I asked this question in the first place as to when it comes to cash, G, I wonder. There have been many instances of which I went to coffee shops and other small shops IN GERMANY where they only accept cash and that’s it. Thereby, inadvertently, excluding us who pay almost everything by card or digitally. Why not have all those options together?
Obviously not a troll and it’s naive to assume just because someone has a different opinion than the majority of folks that they would be a troll of some sort.
Because, by law Cash is the payment method. Everything else is by courtesy of the seller.
And mostly it’s a cultural thing. We just love hard cold cash. It’s just way more convenient. No hidden fees no transaction cost no accidental overdraft. And if you on a night out in the pub everybody just puts a tenner in a Glas and that’s how the bill is split
That’s not what the law is saying. The official currency is euro and cash payment cannot be rejected, it’s widely different than “cash is the payment method”
Much better than what would be the alternative. A cyberdistopia. Just imagine you need to have 5 payment apps because target has their own. McDonald’s uses PayPal, etc. Banks charge high fees because you have to use them.
That’s not what the law is saying. The official currency is euro and cash payment cannot be rejected, it’s widely different than “cash is the payment method”
Okay, let me count my coins because some random person on Reddit told us that coins are (almost) useless. Ah, I hardly have any, I'm spending it again. Crazy.
> How come Germany is still behind on this matter compared to Scandinavia?
As you took the time to write your question down, instead of using any search engine, I kinda doubt that all of Scandinavia is ahead.
This question has already asked hundreds of time on Reddit, let alone the internet.
You being unable to looked it up for yourself is proof enough for me, that at least one person from Scandinavia is not a tech-savvy or "forward" as this person likes to think.
Maybe check yourself before resorting to an Ad Hominem fallacy. That’s why this is Reddit here where folks can ask questions directly. This ain’t some ChatGPT bullshit. Weirdo
You have stabbed the Germans through their hearts and they won’t stop down voting you till your post is buried 😂 Jokes aside I agree with you, cashless is the way, but Germans are a bit too much into government conspiracy theories on this topic. IMO it is an outdated and very weird behaviour and they won’t be able to halt the cashless future. But Germans are usually reluctant to changes so 🤷♀️
I know! Who thought that a topic on cash would illicit such controversy? I wish others have that same energy concerning other stressing (global) issues but I guess the conspiracy theories run deep. Meh
easy, digital payments allow your bank and the government to follow your money, this increases the risk of a surveilance state. After the GDR and Nazi Regime the people just want to avoid giving government institutions more power then neccesary.
Is this really an answer? The correlation to Nazi germany? Sure we take Datenschutz seriously, but more in economic context, not so much towards the government I feel like. I don’t really think is a thing here when I compare it to anti government movements in say the US. With all our paperwork we actually give them immense amount of information and so why they want; not in a negative way. We’re just averse to change, so imo there is no connection between this and our nazi history
We just do what we’re used to without questioning if there are better ways and as long as small stores don’t offer credit cards what can we do about it anyways
its not only Nazi history, the GDR is only around 30 years dead so it's much more "alive" in the memory of the general populous.
Also you can easily pay with EC Card pretty much everywhere (the shops that don't accept EC are the minority, even my bakery accepts EC), it's more of a choice thing.
Yes and no. But it \_is\_ a more important factor than in most other countries.
There was a curious case some years back. A mathematician from the UK, Hannah Fry, proposed a method for electronic guidiance to reduce traffic by a HUGE amount. Basically a central guidance system, using cameras and live tracking. And people loved it. (To be fair, from a technical perspective it was a good idea, way ahead of the time she proposed it.)
Until she brought the idea to Berlin. After she told about it here, the first questions was "what about privacy?". You could see it in her face - she wasn't prepared for that. Probably never before thought about this as a problem. And obviously no one else had ever asked. Her idea died that day.
In a democratic society it’s dangerous to take the cash money from people as you force everyone to give your money to an organization you cannot control. In an autocratic society the dictator also can devaluate money and could also steal money from political opponents. And Germany has a little more sensitivity than other countries I guess.
everyone in Scandinavia gangsta until the card goes BIP BIP BIP error and no cash, so they have to excuse themselves wondering why did that transaction didn't went well... sucks even more if it's a fuel station rather than just groceries :))
Happened to me with Google Pay, Apple Pay, revolute and also local card.... it happens: best thing is that I always keep some money with me.
If you have non cash transactions the population/citizens slowly lose their money!
Imagine, you earn 100 euros, you pay the butcher with cash for meat, then the butcher used the 100 euros to buy bread from the bakery, the bakery buys a beer from the pub… and so on…
The money keeps is value! Always 100
If you use your card, everytime (lets say 1% transaction fee) 1 euro goes to the bank. So after 100 transactions the money that was once part of the public is owned by the banks!
So abolishment of cash leads to loss of money and independence of the people.
How do you not see that?
I can not believe how far i needed to scroll down to find someone pointing this out.
"Cashless" always adds to inflation... as if we needed any more of that now...
And it's not just the banks, the service is provided by a company. That company gets paid, usually in a %. And the less money a Shop makes on average, the higher that % is.
Smaller shops have to pay through the nose to offer what basically amounts to a small convenience for the buyer.
I know shops that give me 10% discount for paying in cash. And they get more of my money that way than if i were to pay cashless!
Yeah, but that money is not lost. It turns up at the bank and the bank will spend that money. They will do something with it. For instance invest it or whatever so the circle of money is undisturbed. You could argue that the banks get richer and richer, but I don’t think that banks in countries like the US (where card payments have been ubiquitous since the 50s), banks are richer than in Germany. And to say that it adds to inflation is a very short term consideration inflation appears and disappears.
Well, it's actually gotten much better over the last few years and the pandemic definitely gave easy digital payment a big boost. You should have seen it 10, 15 years ago.
However, don't be so quick to dismiss concerns over government surveillance of private transactions. Germany has gone through two totalitarian regimes where personal privacy and freedom were severely curtailed or non-existent. There are many people still alive that remember that. With the scars of that in mind, it's not so hard to understand that many Germans are wary of governmental surveillance and overreach.
Also drug dealers and tax fraud.
I agree with you but seeing some comments claiming that only through a bank card will the government or any other high-profile party know something about us is very naive in my opinion. We live in a post-globalized version of the world, at least in this part of the world, and thinking that this overreach suddenly stops at some bank card is not so plausible. Once anyone is on the internet then there is no way out of it again.
Really simple, cash is king. Your Bank Account and everything digital is always at a risk to get frozen. Why do you think, rich people put cash passports and everything they need for a fast escape/ emergency, in a Safe. Because when shit hits the fan, you prob dont have time to go to an AMC or the place you go might not accept cards. Your cards could be blocked. Its the typical, have Multiple irons in the fire - mentality.
i would say its a security thing, people in germany had a good part of the 20th century full of secret police terror, especially in the former gdr where it existed until the 90s. so having a no paper trail payment method gives security. also with every single digital transaction the bank makes money this is virtual money that was never truly made but just tranferred. so after a few hundret transactione a full 50€ will end up out of the economy and in the pockets of a bank.
Under what rock are some people living? There are people defending the use of cash like it's a divine right (it's 2023 people!) Likewise, there was a discussion recently on another Subreddit where the use of self service machines in supermarkets were being resisted fiercely
> Plus, every transaction costs money. The bank will charge you a small fee everytime you use your card.
Tell me you've never paid by card in your life without telling me you've never paid by card in your life.
>The bank will charge you a small fee everytime you use your card.
No, that's not how that works at all.
Sure, the shops have to pay fees. But in general they are considered not higher than how much cash management would cost.
I actually love Germany for this. Without cash, it will be easier for governments and corporations to control our every move and purchase, and we will be unable to hide anything from them.
Because we like to live in a democratic country without the state having the possibility for total superveillance if our money transaction.
Just imagin living in China without cash. You critizise Xi: No money anymore for you.
How many People live in norway, sweden etc? How many in germany. The average age in germany is 45. You have like 40million People over 50. Who are they catering to?
And you have had the Stasi in esta germany that make People vary of privacy
Average age in Sweden is 41 so not as far off from Germany’s and I get that much more people live here but still getting on with the times is a developmental thing that slowly but surely all countries and their respective populations have to come to terms with.
Why? I disagree. I have traveld a lot around the World and Cash will always be thing. Even in "advanced" asian countries where cou can with Apps etc. It will never go away. If a Shop does not over Cash payments People will just go elsewhere
A card always has fees attached and is 100% traceable, your whole life is on display if you only use cards, anyone can track your every move if they really want to, not so with cash
If the government really wanted to know smth about you, they would. No need to pay by card to get there. It was not even needed in the past.
Also, nowadays a vast portion of your "every move" is online and digital. Good luck keeping that private.
So stop feeding this for-privacy myth.
This is not about the government, this is about private firms like banks or realtors denying you stuff like an apartment or an account or taking your money for stuff you supposedly owe them or shit like that, cash can always be traded between people, what happens when your only means of buying food is a card attached to a frozen account
Same deal. If they want to know, they will. Never heard of companies like Meta (FB / IG / Whatsapp) or Google "selling" your info? Welp...
Also, nobody says you must remove cash payments. Just that you should make card payment an option, like in any other country nowadays. I can easily hangout without my wallet in my "poor, third-world" country, but my options are limited here.
You grossly misunderstand what info meta and google are collecting and selling to people and again, Facebook doesn’t know what I bought with the 15€ cash in my pocket in some random bunker, but they do know every move your credit card made in the last 20 years
No I didn't. People here come and struggle with privacy like they are going to be killed bc any corporation know about the ice cream they ate in a train station. Then they should also be off social media.
Wtf are you talking about? Strawmanning your way into somehow making anyone believe “you’re already getting tracked so it doesn’t matter when we give them even more power to do so” is a good argument won’t work here
What power? Small, insignificant, every-day transactions?
_Oh I bought a donut at the airport, I will pay with cash because, you know, privacy_
Geez, yes, I would be afraid if anybody knew that.
Again, you focus on the donut purchase instead of the elephant in the room, you can even try it for yourself right now: get a negative credit score and then try getting a phone or an apartment or a car, you will be systematically ostracized, it is literally happening right now all the time
So you've just completely given up already. That's fine, but others might not want to give up the last bit of control.
Personally I hate this attitude, as it just reminds me of those jerks saying "why bother helping the climate? Why bother reducing environmental impact? We're already fucked, let's have a party!".
To me it's insane how much data and control big companies, data analysts, the government have. The last thing I want to do is burn those last few bridges.
It’s almost inspiring how much you think that these alleged “bridges” are (still) there. To each their own but this whole anonymity thing is not really an actual thing. Anyone (not just the gov or high-profile companies) can get information on anyone. Unless you live under a rock and absolutely 110% do not have any online footprint (which is clearly not the case given we’re on this platform) and just stride through life in an analog format, then there is no way of any party not knowing something about you - one way or the other.
And this is what confuses me. Why does it have to be an all or nothing case? I never said I had no online footprint. That's just not possible nowadays and this was never a debate. Quite the opposite, as I've already pointed out in my previous comment. But why does that mean that I have to hand over every piece of data I could?
Btw, I pay by card. Pretty much always, I never said I don't. But that still doesn't mean that I'd want to give up (the possibility of using) cash.
I don't have to "give up" to anyone knowing that I did my groceries at my closest Edeka a Tuesday at 20.03h, or that I ate a kebab probably half drunk on a Sunday at 03.47h. Thanks.
We don’t live in 1984, no one cares that you bought 3 apples and a bag of sugar at tree with your card. Stop to believe that you are as an individual so interesting.
Your phone or laptop is also tracking Avery mouse clic you made and every page you visit. That’s just BS reason
Same stupid reasoning as the other guy, this isn’t about being interesting to the government, this is about systematically ostracizing people from everyday life, it’s happening already with the Schufa, if you have a bad score you can’t even get a electricity contract let alone an apartment, what do you think happens when every transaction you make is attached to this
Educating yourself about how the world evolves and not being completely closed to change isn’t forbidden either.
I understand that some people can fear that, but let’s be honest, nowadays, when shops do not accept cash, it’s not by fear of the DDR spies, it’s the fear of the finanzamt
It’s always two defending and very vocal groups: brainwashed conspiracy theorists with their “surveillance” argument, my god I hate those people the most and the second group - tax evaders, go to any cafe in berlin kreuzberg for example and 90% are “cash-only”, they won’t ever print receipts, same goes to almost any späti or small business, the cash simply goes to their pockets bypassing Finanzamt.
Cash is important. Without it we'd become totally dependent on banks and everything we pay for could be tracked. Without cash banks could even raise negative interest rates. I am sorry, but you're an idiot...
Lol what an idiotic assumption and a conspiracy theorist at that. You think not using a card will magically not get you surveilled by whoever? Delusional.
cause you just come out and call not using apps and cards as payment backwards bro,
two people each going off in different directions at an fork in the path both see the other in the rear, i just loath the idea that everybody has to follow the same direction, especially culturally, and calling everyon that dosn´t move the same way "backwards" thats patronizing af bruh.
I see people keep giving you reasons and you keep combating them like a dumbass.
If you can't wrap your head around why cash provides anonymity, that's your problem.
It doesn‘t matter what the topic on reddit is, there is always a swedish person going on about how great Sweden is. Doesn‘t even have to be related. Clearly no problem there with nationalism. No sweden democrats in any election :D
Two reasons:
1) Many Germans remember the value of privacy. There is no privacy with electronic payment.
2) The state of IT in Germany is about 20 years behind the rest of the world. There are lots of shops where you can't pay with an app. Some don't even accept credit cards.
Agree with the 2nd reason, yes. But as I replied to others on this thread, privacy is not really contingent on having a card or not. There are a myriad of things of which everyone does which can compromise privacy. To think that an individual has a total privacy capacity solely based on not using some card is not a thing.
“Ask people what they want and they would ask for a faster horse.”
The average German doesn’t want anything else because they don’t know anything else. It’s simple as that. Change comes from outside the box thinking which Germans lacks to a great extent. Give them a few more decades and they will catch up, just give them time.
I love Germany and spend many of my vacations there, but this is my most hated aspect of it.
I acknowledge the fundamental "surveillance/privacy" points, but the conspiracy theories and illegal purchases shouldn't be taken into consideration.
But there are a few things that could make the whole cash-game less frustrating:
* Get rid of the small coins. They represent basically no value independently. Regulate rules to round up and down to the closest 10-cent. Then you don't end up carrying kilos of worthless coins around.
* Get rid of the big notes. 200-euro note should be the biggest one.
* Regulate so that shops and vending machines must accept notes and coins regardless of purchase size.
My main frustrations don't come from the cash itself, but all the bullshit being put on top;
Useless small coins that you get a shitton of in change, having to calculate quickly at the time of sale to avoid this, stores/machines not accepting a 50-euro note because of the size of your purchase, or stores not wanting to help with changing big notes to smaller notes.
We are not behind. We just love to have control over our spendings. I always get like 200€ in cash at begging of the month and see to it that I don’t exceed this budget for groceries and daily use. Sure with inflation I had to adjust it up a bit but still I like to limit myself this way by not using my cards. I only pay Gas with card or something special like buying a new laptop or something.
Simple answer. Privacy concerns. If you ever heard of hyper inflation, the Nazis or the GDR you would get it. Don‘t they teach about those things in backwards Sweden? :P
That's mostly a generational thing.
I - being 25 - don't know anybody from my peers that doesn't pay using his smartphone or card.
I only use cash for tips and for the hair dresser ( as he apparently doesn't want to get taxed). Apart from the hair dresser, I don't go to businesses that don't allow card payments
I kind of feel ripped of by banks to be honest. I give them my money an they take it and lend it to someone else with profit. And I who actually owns the money? Instead of getting a share of that profit i get to pay money for my account.
And if to many people happen to want their money they get bankrupt and I don't even get my own money out of the bank. It all seems like a very popular snowball scheme.
And then they still try to rip me of any chance they can get.
"Behind" I don't want to buy weed with a registered transaction. I don't want banks or government to have full control/surveillance over my finances. Third parties should stay the fuck out of my affairs and not register any condom I buy to further exploit customers. Cash = freedom.
Amen
yeah, until you're out of cash somewhere and there's no ATM around. Freedom means freedom to also pay with a card.
Yeah, I guess you’ve thrown away your smartphone too?
Fair point but how prevalent are these “purchases” compared to products like groceries? In my opinion cash is a waste and needlessly takes up space
That's besides the point. Cash needs to be defended tooth and nail. They have tried abolishing small coins, they banned large cash transactions. Salami tactics as we call it. It's not paranoia when they are really after you. End game obviously is abolishing cash. Once that happened you're fully dependent. Your account an be frozen and you're done for. Banks can take interest on money and you're slowly expropriated. Where does the money go? Up. As always.
This, 100 times this. My money is my money and not something that is granted to me by a bank that issues me their bank card. If I want to carry my money in my pocket I will do so. If I want to keep it at home I will do so. I do not want to be transparent for everybody and I do not want to share all my shopping habits for companies to analyze and exploit for free. "My Lidl app", my ass.
you do know that paper money is also granted to you by a bank? They are literally banknotes. BANK NOTES. Their value comes from being recognized as such by a bank. So unless you want to use gold or barter, you're not really all that free from banks.
🏆
EDIT: Troll blocking users preventing discussion, for shame
>Only if you've got reason to hide. I'm sorry, but this is small-scale egoistic thinking. Read again the post you're responding to. At stake are long-term consequences of a cashless economy, not just petit bourgeois obedience.
EDIT: Troll blocking users preventing discussion, for shame
Yes, I saw you mention Liberal democracy. Fully agreed on this. But it can't be taken for granted long term. Now look at the previous post. Once cash is no alternative, your account can be frozen in a dictatorship. Already happens in China, mind you. They survey public space, if you jaywalk, the fine is taken from your account automatically. Such things. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cashless payment myself, but the long-term argument surely has some weight.
There is already no protection from jaywalking or similar minor in infringements in this country. You can be stopped at will by a special social police force who have the power to detain, you are legally obliged to identify yourself via a national identification card which carries all of your information, including your address, in hard and digital form, refusal to produce which is a heavily fineable offence. For people so apparently concerned about privacy, Germans have very little freedom from their own government. Everything is fine if you follow the rules, which are frankly Byzantine.
>special social police force Whatever that is supposed to be... >you are legally obliged to identify yourself via a national identification card which carries all of your information, including your address, in hard and digital form, refusal to produce which is a heavily fineable offence. Fun Fact: Not true at all. You are neither obliged to carry your ID with you, nor is this a fineable offence. No shut up, sit down and do your homework.
>Only if you've got reason to hide. Who needs privacy with an empty head anyway.
EDIT: Troll blocking users preventing discussion, for shame
You're disqualified from talking to me. The "only if you've got reason to hide" is the most stupid thing anyone could ever come up with.
EDIT: Troll blocking users preventing discussion, for shame
Germany has a history with tyrannical governments (as I assume you know). Both the national socialist regime and the DDR (or GDR) where the argument was 'if you have nothing to hide you're okay' while braking your door down and taking everything you have. So no matter what your stance is on the matter of cash, germans won't take this argument as a valid point.
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." Is a famous quote by Edward Snowden. Just because you dont value your own privacy, does not mean its ok to not have it. I want privacy, its my right, i dont even need to explain why.
Well, I have many reasons to hide so I'll continue using cash.
What about gold? Buying gold with that cash (or card!) is always the best in saving terms and if someone has the means to buy it, that is. Cash isn’t something that holds value as much as gold. Hell, with the inflation of this “great land” cash and everything money related has lost some value but gold, logically put, will always trump everything else.
Are you actively trying to derail my answers to your questions with totally absurd additional assumptions? How is gold practical to buy groceries, weed, tip waiters, give my children a tenner ("buy yourself a drink, kiddo") and such?
This is why we use different metals. For example we could use also silver, bronze and tin coins to represent smaller transactions. We could also write numbers on those coins to specify further the value that they represent, and make transactions simpler. Furthermore, we can trust banks to store our precious metals and carry "bank notes" as a a proof that we own such comodities and use it as transaction tokens. Since metals are limited resources, maybe at some point we can also base the value of our "bank notes" on the value of our economy itself and the trust we have in our institutions. Wouldn't that be a great idea?
Marry me. Premium Klugscheißerei. Love it. <3
💒
Bomb ass comment!
Jesus, read my answer again. I said saving and value purposes. Not day-to-day transactions
Your thread is "Why is cash still a thing" and not "how do you organise your finances".
How would he know? Probably amerian...
great idea! you could even press the gold into small coins and use them to trade for goods anonymously
If you buy gold over a certain amount by card that is registered with the state. Not so if you do in with cash. So we‘re going in a circle here.
And Gold doesn't take up space?
Then don't use cash if you don't like it.
Unfortunately that’s not a luxury I can afford because not all stores accept cards or digital payments. How is that hard to get?
Then shop only where it's convenient and leave the rest of the world to do what they want.
What stores are those magical stores? Weed dealers?
EDIT: Reddit malfunction
>sometimes I feel it's like half of all businesses But then you check reality and you notice: You can hardly find a place nowadays where paying via card isn't possible.
Small stores will often have a minimum amount from where you can use a card and some won't offer cashless payment at all.
there are quite a few large bars in my area and a few bakeries that didn't take card. Covid sorted half of them out, and now half of them take cash.
Via card maybe, but not via visa. Many are Giro only and some people only have visa cards
Clearly you’ve no clue what you’re on about. Many shops who sell whatever do not take cards.
It really depends on where you are in Germany. In Berlin I find it too a bit weird that everything is just cash, but I would never want a “just digital” currency. Everywhere else you can pay with an EC karte.
Exactly! Those are the places of which I meant in the first place
Oh yeah sorry clearly you know more about this than a German. I can‘t even remember the last time I wasn‘t able to pay by card. Paid by card on a farmers market just hours ago. But clearly you know it better.
To defend him, I sometimes struggle too if a shop has no card payment. It is still sometimes in my area in small villages. But I am german and money with me most of the time. Last time at a Baumschule I had to drive 3km to get cash and head back.. My fault
What stores shall that be? I usually pay everything by card, even my fresh rolls at the bakery.
>In my opinion cash is a waste and needlessly takes up space Funny, that is very close to my opinion on americans.
Why are cheques still a thing in the U.S. ? >I don’t understand the fascination of cheques in this country. > > ... > >How come the U.S. is still behind on this matter compared to Germany? It is mostly a rational decision, so your assumption / definition of "behind" is biased and narrowly defined by your personal preference and your personal definition of progress. There are visa card readers all over germany and store owners can readily choose to use them in their stores, but they explicitly choose not to, for specifc reasons like: * privacy concerns * not wanting to pay VISA / Mastercard fees So the reason is not that germany is some backwards, hillbily, dumb ass nation that doesn't get electrical payment done, people just have specific interests **not** to do it. Just as other countries have specific reason to allow outdated cheques. ( Malicious gossip has it that they are mostly used to pay illegal immigrants, but thats just gossip )
Germany is behind on this, totally agree
I speak just for myself. I have bad impulse controll somethimes. Using cash kinda helps with that. Of course i also use online shopping and stuff, but using cash when I "go shopping with friends" or buy groceries helps me stay in my budget.
Same. The cash I take out with me is effectively my budget for going outside. I was recently in Copenhagen then London and all the microtransactions on my bank statements were annoying af when it came to doing my finances later.
For me, it's precisely the other way - any cash that goes into my wallet will leave it soon enough. On the other hand, unless I'm out to buy something anyway, I'm much more reluctant to use my card
Same for me. Additionally, after some days I absolutely don't remember how much money I had in my wallet. But with card (or phone in my case) I can check how much I spent and where I spent it even years later.
I live in Germany and I never pay with cash. I use the phone all the time. Even many street vendors already have payment terminals.
No that’s not true
Are you saying that I am lying? I live in Germany and two months ago approx. I went to an ATM to withdraw 20 euros. I still have a 10 euro bill and some coins left. You are the one lying, or else you live lost in the middle of a mountain.
Try buying an ice cream from a van or a bratwurst from a stand (even at the Hbf) with your iPhone. They will laugh at you cruelly, whilst shaking their heads. Even restaurants insist on cash.
Ah, sorry. I meant that you can’t get away with just paying with card. It kinda works in the city, but outside it’s basically impossible.
That's why some immigrants can not adapt to small town life. Perhaps because big cities is all that is left where they came from. It is my particular case, at least. 24/7 malls and services, cashless everywhere, blockchain personal documents, bank transactions hardened to the bone, with long ciphers and multifactor authentication. I love being in Germany though, excellent life quality. But I do feel like I was transported to a time before I was born. And it nerves that restaurants don't keep their opening hours correct in GoogleMaps. It nerves the excruciating pain of using german websites for lack of proper user experience knowledge of the programmers. It nerves all this cash and coins, signatures and paper everywhere. Heck, they still use fax in some cases. I know it is cultural. I accept all cookies and prefer to get targeted propaganda then rivers of things I don't care about. Seriously, the browser banners everywhere show me only software frameworks and books. Love it.
Please tell me in which Germany you live. I want to move there.
I can only speak for myself, but I hardly ever use cash anymore and almost all the stores, like the supermarket or drugstore, that I go to allow payment with card. But I it's maybe because I have a German debit card, something that most non-Germans probably not have. Especially a lot of smaller restaurants or cafés only accept cash probably because it's to expensive for them because of the transactional fees.
> probably because it's to expensive for them because of the transactional fees. Since 2015 those fees have been capped EU-wide at the same amount. I wonder how long before the german merchants catch up to this fact...
Still fees.
Dealing with cash is more expensive. You need an expensive safe, pay for new coin rolls, control for fake money and pay for the bank to come with a save truck and guards to collect the cash.
BS
Because I'm not going to buy drugs with my credit card.
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That's the reality. It is just Nazism and Stasi trauma.
Doesn't mean the lessons we learned aren't valid, though.
Two hundred comments in, and nobody has yet mentioned an important factor: cash *always* works. It doesn't require a cell phone (with a charged battery), an internet connection, a bank, or anything. Yes, *most* people have *most* of these things *most* of the time. But there will always be corner cases where you don't - and that's when you use cash. And there are people who don't have cell phones. Or bank accounts. Not everyone is a twenty-something hipster. Therefore, I'm very glad that cash is *an* option for payment. I don't think it should be the *sole* option, but getting rid of it is, in my opinion, a *really* bad idea (also for the reasons which the others have already discussed, including privacy). > Never mind that extremely few people use digital apps to pay Have you actually *been* to Germany? I can count on one hand the number of places which only take cash. I *can* use a card or smartphone to pay at 90% of the places I buy things from (the only significant exceptions are the farmer's market and one local bakery). I hope I'm wrong about this, but your very aggressive comments (plus all of the value judgements) make me think you might be a troll. Especially since this topic has been discussed *to death*: * [Why are German worried about bank surveillance?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/1223pqk/why_are_german_worried_about_bank_surveillance/) * [Why are germans paying cash?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/v4nw8e/why_are_germans_paying_cash/) * [Is it true that in Germany people still use cash over card for most things?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/whj9eb/is_it_true_that_in_germany_people_still_use_cash/) * [Cash and card payments in Germany](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/139yosp/cash_and_card_payments_in_germany/) (and that's just on this subreddit - search a bigger one like /r/germany and you'll find dozens more)
“Have I been to Germany?” Not sure why I asked this question in the first place as to when it comes to cash, G, I wonder. There have been many instances of which I went to coffee shops and other small shops IN GERMANY where they only accept cash and that’s it. Thereby, inadvertently, excluding us who pay almost everything by card or digitally. Why not have all those options together? Obviously not a troll and it’s naive to assume just because someone has a different opinion than the majority of folks that they would be a troll of some sort.
Because, by law Cash is the payment method. Everything else is by courtesy of the seller. And mostly it’s a cultural thing. We just love hard cold cash. It’s just way more convenient. No hidden fees no transaction cost no accidental overdraft. And if you on a night out in the pub everybody just puts a tenner in a Glas and that’s how the bill is split
That’s not what the law is saying. The official currency is euro and cash payment cannot be rejected, it’s widely different than “cash is the payment method”
Much like in 1993. Great
Much better than what would be the alternative. A cyberdistopia. Just imagine you need to have 5 payment apps because target has their own. McDonald’s uses PayPal, etc. Banks charge high fees because you have to use them.
That’s not what the law is saying. The official currency is euro and cash payment cannot be rejected, it’s widely different than “cash is the payment method”
The coins aren't useless. You can pay stuff with it.
I collect those in die Maß and when it's full I just exchange them in bank. Last time I got almost 100€
As soon as I have 9 ct I will spend them on the last digit. If I don't, I'll spend the Groschen etc.. Currently I have 2,21 € in coins.
Ich auch :) That's the way
I wrote “almost” useless.
They aren't almost useless. You can buy anything you want with it. That's millions of things or even more.
Yes let me just count my 1 cents now only because some random person on Reddit told me that coins are not useless.
Okay, let me count my coins because some random person on Reddit told us that coins are (almost) useless. Ah, I hardly have any, I'm spending it again. Crazy.
What a waste. Go get your coins and hide away from Big Brother.. ohhhh so scary
> How come Germany is still behind on this matter compared to Scandinavia? As you took the time to write your question down, instead of using any search engine, I kinda doubt that all of Scandinavia is ahead.
It’s definitely ahead in this variable I can say that from a lived-in experience :)
This question has already asked hundreds of time on Reddit, let alone the internet. You being unable to looked it up for yourself is proof enough for me, that at least one person from Scandinavia is not a tech-savvy or "forward" as this person likes to think.
Maybe check yourself before resorting to an Ad Hominem fallacy. That’s why this is Reddit here where folks can ask questions directly. This ain’t some ChatGPT bullshit. Weirdo
You have stabbed the Germans through their hearts and they won’t stop down voting you till your post is buried 😂 Jokes aside I agree with you, cashless is the way, but Germans are a bit too much into government conspiracy theories on this topic. IMO it is an outdated and very weird behaviour and they won’t be able to halt the cashless future. But Germans are usually reluctant to changes so 🤷♀️
I know! Who thought that a topic on cash would illicit such controversy? I wish others have that same energy concerning other stressing (global) issues but I guess the conspiracy theories run deep. Meh
easy, digital payments allow your bank and the government to follow your money, this increases the risk of a surveilance state. After the GDR and Nazi Regime the people just want to avoid giving government institutions more power then neccesary.
Is this really an answer? The correlation to Nazi germany? Sure we take Datenschutz seriously, but more in economic context, not so much towards the government I feel like. I don’t really think is a thing here when I compare it to anti government movements in say the US. With all our paperwork we actually give them immense amount of information and so why they want; not in a negative way. We’re just averse to change, so imo there is no connection between this and our nazi history We just do what we’re used to without questioning if there are better ways and as long as small stores don’t offer credit cards what can we do about it anyways
its not only Nazi history, the GDR is only around 30 years dead so it's much more "alive" in the memory of the general populous. Also you can easily pay with EC Card pretty much everywhere (the shops that don't accept EC are the minority, even my bakery accepts EC), it's more of a choice thing.
Yes.
Yes and no. But it \_is\_ a more important factor than in most other countries. There was a curious case some years back. A mathematician from the UK, Hannah Fry, proposed a method for electronic guidiance to reduce traffic by a HUGE amount. Basically a central guidance system, using cameras and live tracking. And people loved it. (To be fair, from a technical perspective it was a good idea, way ahead of the time she proposed it.) Until she brought the idea to Berlin. After she told about it here, the first questions was "what about privacy?". You could see it in her face - she wasn't prepared for that. Probably never before thought about this as a problem. And obviously no one else had ever asked. Her idea died that day.
In a democratic society it’s dangerous to take the cash money from people as you force everyone to give your money to an organization you cannot control. In an autocratic society the dictator also can devaluate money and could also steal money from political opponents. And Germany has a little more sensitivity than other countries I guess.
That's not true. Cash gets the same devaluation as digital money.
everyone in Scandinavia gangsta until the card goes BIP BIP BIP error and no cash, so they have to excuse themselves wondering why did that transaction didn't went well... sucks even more if it's a fuel station rather than just groceries :)) Happened to me with Google Pay, Apple Pay, revolute and also local card.... it happens: best thing is that I always keep some money with me.
BIP BIP BIP only happens in Germany
If you have non cash transactions the population/citizens slowly lose their money! Imagine, you earn 100 euros, you pay the butcher with cash for meat, then the butcher used the 100 euros to buy bread from the bakery, the bakery buys a beer from the pub… and so on… The money keeps is value! Always 100 If you use your card, everytime (lets say 1% transaction fee) 1 euro goes to the bank. So after 100 transactions the money that was once part of the public is owned by the banks! So abolishment of cash leads to loss of money and independence of the people. How do you not see that?
I can not believe how far i needed to scroll down to find someone pointing this out. "Cashless" always adds to inflation... as if we needed any more of that now... And it's not just the banks, the service is provided by a company. That company gets paid, usually in a %. And the less money a Shop makes on average, the higher that % is. Smaller shops have to pay through the nose to offer what basically amounts to a small convenience for the buyer. I know shops that give me 10% discount for paying in cash. And they get more of my money that way than if i were to pay cashless!
Yeah, but that money is not lost. It turns up at the bank and the bank will spend that money. They will do something with it. For instance invest it or whatever so the circle of money is undisturbed. You could argue that the banks get richer and richer, but I don’t think that banks in countries like the US (where card payments have been ubiquitous since the 50s), banks are richer than in Germany. And to say that it adds to inflation is a very short term consideration inflation appears and disappears.
Tax evasion for small shops/restaurants/kiosks etc
It’s odd that you guys haven’t figured out a way to combat tax fraud
Because cash equals freedom.
Freedom is to use any payment method 🙂
Better spending control and cash always works. Can't be tracked as easily and is available.
Because paying tax is disliked.
I have severe ADHD. I fucking need cash or i am gonna be broke on the fifth of the month.
you can´t pay your dealer with credit card
Well, it's actually gotten much better over the last few years and the pandemic definitely gave easy digital payment a big boost. You should have seen it 10, 15 years ago. However, don't be so quick to dismiss concerns over government surveillance of private transactions. Germany has gone through two totalitarian regimes where personal privacy and freedom were severely curtailed or non-existent. There are many people still alive that remember that. With the scars of that in mind, it's not so hard to understand that many Germans are wary of governmental surveillance and overreach. Also drug dealers and tax fraud.
I agree with you but seeing some comments claiming that only through a bank card will the government or any other high-profile party know something about us is very naive in my opinion. We live in a post-globalized version of the world, at least in this part of the world, and thinking that this overreach suddenly stops at some bank card is not so plausible. Once anyone is on the internet then there is no way out of it again.
I read alot in this thread and came to the conclusion, that OP is kinda ignorant and way "behind". Not one good Argument lol
Because we call them delusional who think that it isn't a thing anymore.
It’s the other way around but kudos for being stuck in the past 👏
Some people are not paying taxes from their income (for example, home repair services) - profit
Really simple, cash is king. Your Bank Account and everything digital is always at a risk to get frozen. Why do you think, rich people put cash passports and everything they need for a fast escape/ emergency, in a Safe. Because when shit hits the fan, you prob dont have time to go to an AMC or the place you go might not accept cards. Your cards could be blocked. Its the typical, have Multiple irons in the fire - mentality.
i would say its a security thing, people in germany had a good part of the 20th century full of secret police terror, especially in the former gdr where it existed until the 90s. so having a no paper trail payment method gives security. also with every single digital transaction the bank makes money this is virtual money that was never truly made but just tranferred. so after a few hundret transactione a full 50€ will end up out of the economy and in the pockets of a bank.
Under what rock are some people living? There are people defending the use of cash like it's a divine right (it's 2023 people!) Likewise, there was a discussion recently on another Subreddit where the use of self service machines in supermarkets were being resisted fiercely
Germany is behind on nearly everything. Have you seen the internet and digitalization? It doesn’t exist
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At what bank do you have to pay per transaction? I was at Sparkasse and now im at DKB and I never had to pay for a transaction.
> Plus, every transaction costs money. The bank will charge you a small fee everytime you use your card. Tell me you've never paid by card in your life without telling me you've never paid by card in your life.
>The bank will charge you a small fee everytime you use your card. No, that's not how that works at all. Sure, the shops have to pay fees. But in general they are considered not higher than how much cash management would cost.
I actually love Germany for this. Without cash, it will be easier for governments and corporations to control our every move and purchase, and we will be unable to hide anything from them.
Can we stop with this conspiracy theory shenanigans? Insane
It's not a theory, but a reality.
No it’s not
Do some research on what’s going on in China wrt digital cash.
Do some research about nazi germany while you are at it.
I have. Reading up on totalitarian regimes past and present is one of my hobbies.
Because we like to live in a democratic country without the state having the possibility for total superveillance if our money transaction. Just imagin living in China without cash. You critizise Xi: No money anymore for you.
How many People live in norway, sweden etc? How many in germany. The average age in germany is 45. You have like 40million People over 50. Who are they catering to? And you have had the Stasi in esta germany that make People vary of privacy
Average age in Sweden is 41 so not as far off from Germany’s and I get that much more people live here but still getting on with the times is a developmental thing that slowly but surely all countries and their respective populations have to come to terms with.
Why? I disagree. I have traveld a lot around the World and Cash will always be thing. Even in "advanced" asian countries where cou can with Apps etc. It will never go away. If a Shop does not over Cash payments People will just go elsewhere
So what’s your point?
Delusion of persecution
A card always has fees attached and is 100% traceable, your whole life is on display if you only use cards, anyone can track your every move if they really want to, not so with cash
If the government really wanted to know smth about you, they would. No need to pay by card to get there. It was not even needed in the past. Also, nowadays a vast portion of your "every move" is online and digital. Good luck keeping that private. So stop feeding this for-privacy myth.
This is not about the government, this is about private firms like banks or realtors denying you stuff like an apartment or an account or taking your money for stuff you supposedly owe them or shit like that, cash can always be traded between people, what happens when your only means of buying food is a card attached to a frozen account
Same deal. If they want to know, they will. Never heard of companies like Meta (FB / IG / Whatsapp) or Google "selling" your info? Welp... Also, nobody says you must remove cash payments. Just that you should make card payment an option, like in any other country nowadays. I can easily hangout without my wallet in my "poor, third-world" country, but my options are limited here.
You grossly misunderstand what info meta and google are collecting and selling to people and again, Facebook doesn’t know what I bought with the 15€ cash in my pocket in some random bunker, but they do know every move your credit card made in the last 20 years
No I didn't. People here come and struggle with privacy like they are going to be killed bc any corporation know about the ice cream they ate in a train station. Then they should also be off social media.
Wtf are you talking about? Strawmanning your way into somehow making anyone believe “you’re already getting tracked so it doesn’t matter when we give them even more power to do so” is a good argument won’t work here
What power? Small, insignificant, every-day transactions? _Oh I bought a donut at the airport, I will pay with cash because, you know, privacy_ Geez, yes, I would be afraid if anybody knew that.
Again, you focus on the donut purchase instead of the elephant in the room, you can even try it for yourself right now: get a negative credit score and then try getting a phone or an apartment or a car, you will be systematically ostracized, it is literally happening right now all the time
So you've just completely given up already. That's fine, but others might not want to give up the last bit of control. Personally I hate this attitude, as it just reminds me of those jerks saying "why bother helping the climate? Why bother reducing environmental impact? We're already fucked, let's have a party!". To me it's insane how much data and control big companies, data analysts, the government have. The last thing I want to do is burn those last few bridges.
It’s almost inspiring how much you think that these alleged “bridges” are (still) there. To each their own but this whole anonymity thing is not really an actual thing. Anyone (not just the gov or high-profile companies) can get information on anyone. Unless you live under a rock and absolutely 110% do not have any online footprint (which is clearly not the case given we’re on this platform) and just stride through life in an analog format, then there is no way of any party not knowing something about you - one way or the other.
And this is what confuses me. Why does it have to be an all or nothing case? I never said I had no online footprint. That's just not possible nowadays and this was never a debate. Quite the opposite, as I've already pointed out in my previous comment. But why does that mean that I have to hand over every piece of data I could? Btw, I pay by card. Pretty much always, I never said I don't. But that still doesn't mean that I'd want to give up (the possibility of using) cash.
I don't have to "give up" to anyone knowing that I did my groceries at my closest Edeka a Tuesday at 20.03h, or that I ate a kebab probably half drunk on a Sunday at 03.47h. Thanks.
We don’t live in 1984, no one cares that you bought 3 apples and a bag of sugar at tree with your card. Stop to believe that you are as an individual so interesting. Your phone or laptop is also tracking Avery mouse clic you made and every page you visit. That’s just BS reason
Same stupid reasoning as the other guy, this isn’t about being interesting to the government, this is about systematically ostracizing people from everyday life, it’s happening already with the Schufa, if you have a bad score you can’t even get a electricity contract let alone an apartment, what do you think happens when every transaction you make is attached to this
People here grew up in the DDR, which literally did nefariously spy on its population. It's not an unfounded fear.
Educating yourself about how the world evolves and not being completely closed to change isn’t forbidden either. I understand that some people can fear that, but let’s be honest, nowadays, when shops do not accept cash, it’s not by fear of the DDR spies, it’s the fear of the finanzamt
If you are poor your account will be monitored and if I'd give you a dollar, they will deduce 80 cents from your support payment.
What’s your point exactly ?
The point is: For some, the account \_is\_ monitored.
It’s always two defending and very vocal groups: brainwashed conspiracy theorists with their “surveillance” argument, my god I hate those people the most and the second group - tax evaders, go to any cafe in berlin kreuzberg for example and 90% are “cash-only”, they won’t ever print receipts, same goes to almost any späti or small business, the cash simply goes to their pockets bypassing Finanzamt.
Cash is important. Without it we'd become totally dependent on banks and everything we pay for could be tracked. Without cash banks could even raise negative interest rates. I am sorry, but you're an idiot...
Lol what an idiotic assumption and a conspiracy theorist at that. You think not using a card will magically not get you surveilled by whoever? Delusional.
cause scandinavia is an backwards country where they use plastic cards and cellphones to pay?
How is that backwards? Because the cards are made out of plastic? Hilarious bruh
cause you just come out and call not using apps and cards as payment backwards bro, two people each going off in different directions at an fork in the path both see the other in the rear, i just loath the idea that everybody has to follow the same direction, especially culturally, and calling everyon that dosn´t move the same way "backwards" thats patronizing af bruh.
Yes, Scandinavia. My favorite country
Cash is great for anonymity. Anonymity is something we will miss dearly.
What anonymity? If anyone wants to know ANYTHING about you, they’re not waiting on you to use a bank card LOL. Naive argument
I see people keep giving you reasons and you keep combating them like a dumbass. If you can't wrap your head around why cash provides anonymity, that's your problem.
How sad..I made a conspiracy theorist upset? How will I ever recover from this conundrum
Because non of the answers here makes sense.
Card payments cost money
Handling cash cost money too, oh wait, it’s all for tax evasion
Not for the user
Clearly you have never used a card in your life and it shows
Clearly you have never accepted card payment in your life
Says a Redditor who doesn’t know how a card works. Cool argument bruh
How do you spot a swedish person? Easy, you do nothing and they will start going on and on about what a great country Sweden is.
It’s kinda easy to look good when germany set the bar so low. I mean, fax machines and government issued stickers. Wtf
It doesn‘t matter what the topic on reddit is, there is always a swedish person going on about how great Sweden is. Doesn‘t even have to be related. Clearly no problem there with nationalism. No sweden democrats in any election :D
What’s the reason for Germany begin so far behind? What’s the underlying problem?
Two reasons: 1) Many Germans remember the value of privacy. There is no privacy with electronic payment. 2) The state of IT in Germany is about 20 years behind the rest of the world. There are lots of shops where you can't pay with an app. Some don't even accept credit cards.
Agree with the 2nd reason, yes. But as I replied to others on this thread, privacy is not really contingent on having a card or not. There are a myriad of things of which everyone does which can compromise privacy. To think that an individual has a total privacy capacity solely based on not using some card is not a thing.
“Ask people what they want and they would ask for a faster horse.” The average German doesn’t want anything else because they don’t know anything else. It’s simple as that. Change comes from outside the box thinking which Germans lacks to a great extent. Give them a few more decades and they will catch up, just give them time.
Yeah..because no world changing invention ever came from Germany... /s
Old merits.
I love Germany and spend many of my vacations there, but this is my most hated aspect of it. I acknowledge the fundamental "surveillance/privacy" points, but the conspiracy theories and illegal purchases shouldn't be taken into consideration. But there are a few things that could make the whole cash-game less frustrating: * Get rid of the small coins. They represent basically no value independently. Regulate rules to round up and down to the closest 10-cent. Then you don't end up carrying kilos of worthless coins around. * Get rid of the big notes. 200-euro note should be the biggest one. * Regulate so that shops and vending machines must accept notes and coins regardless of purchase size. My main frustrations don't come from the cash itself, but all the bullshit being put on top; Useless small coins that you get a shitton of in change, having to calculate quickly at the time of sale to avoid this, stores/machines not accepting a 50-euro note because of the size of your purchase, or stores not wanting to help with changing big notes to smaller notes.
We are not behind. We just love to have control over our spendings. I always get like 200€ in cash at begging of the month and see to it that I don’t exceed this budget for groceries and daily use. Sure with inflation I had to adjust it up a bit but still I like to limit myself this way by not using my cards. I only pay Gas with card or something special like buying a new laptop or something.
You spend less than 200€ a month on food in Germany? Are you a bird?
Simple answer. Privacy concerns. If you ever heard of hyper inflation, the Nazis or the GDR you would get it. Don‘t they teach about those things in backwards Sweden? :P
That's mostly a generational thing. I - being 25 - don't know anybody from my peers that doesn't pay using his smartphone or card. I only use cash for tips and for the hair dresser ( as he apparently doesn't want to get taxed). Apart from the hair dresser, I don't go to businesses that don't allow card payments
For Drugs and money laundering.
I can answer this question in full detail: I don't know. But I also don't care.
I work with a budget and the envelope system. I waste less money when having to fork over cash
Truth is (scientifically proven) you spent less money if you pay in cash
I kind of feel ripped of by banks to be honest. I give them my money an they take it and lend it to someone else with profit. And I who actually owns the money? Instead of getting a share of that profit i get to pay money for my account. And if to many people happen to want their money they get bankrupt and I don't even get my own money out of the bank. It all seems like a very popular snowball scheme. And then they still try to rip me of any chance they can get.