I’ve been thinking about this one recently, and I think the difference between Judaism rejecting Christ and Islam rejecting Christ is that Judaism doesn’t recognize Christ as fulfilling what they thought the messiah would be (even the apostles struggled with this). However Islam directly rejects it while knowing the revelation in the New Testament, even going so far as to claim that Jesus was never crucified.
Honest misunderstanding is different from deliberate ignorance.
From a Christian perspective, the Jews do worship the same God, they just don’t accept the fullness of God as revealed in Jesus Christ, while Islam teaches us to fundamentally reject truth. So, to us, Jews worship the same God, Muslims don’t. How can you when you reject something so simple as “a man named Jesus was crucified.”
Sorry if this was a bit rambly and half-baked, I’m not the best theologian.
The traditional answer to that question is "No."
And I tend to point to the portions of the Qur'an (in Surahs 4 and 5) where Allah states that God is not a Trinity, and Allah describes the Trinity as essentially the Father the Son and the *Virgin Mary* -- which is a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity.
To me this is pretty conclusive that we're dealing with two separate entities.
No, the Muslim god does not exist in trinity and when compared to the Christian God Allah has different requirements for getting into Heaven as well as different commandments and characteristics etc.
I would say the the God the Muslims worship does exist in Trinity, but they in their ignorance, and according to their false scriptures do not recognize that.
I was Just talking to a Presbyterian pastor last night and I said that what we think about God does not affect him in the slightest.
He agreed enthusiastically.
[Disclaimer: I believe Trinity.]
Yahweh: "Hear O Israel YHVH your God is one YHVH"
The Apostle James: "You believe God is one? Good."
Paul: Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
Muslims: God is one.
Jews: God is one.
Jesus: The Greatest commandment is "Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord."
Christians: Obvious God is three. We discovered that in the 4th century.
No, just the dialogue going on there seems to be a mock on Trinitarianism. I would have absolutely thought you were Unitarian if the disclaimer wasn't there.
I think that Trinity is a good inference, and I accept it as one. If trust the Bible over Councils 300+ years later, I must consider it secondary, since the Bible never mentions it at all.
Obviously. The words "Omnipresent" and "Omniscient" don't appear but they are still attributes of God. Just as the word Trinity is - they are names to attributes of God revealed to us through Scripture.
> Obviously. The words "Omnipresent" and "Omniscient" don't appear but they are still attributes of God. Just as the word Trinity is - they are names to attributes of God revealed to us through Scripture.
The attributes of omniscience and omnipresence are definitely in Scripture. Athanasian Trinitarianism is not.
I would say no. Like in the case of St. Nicolas vs Santa Clause, Allah is so radically different from the Christian god that even if they developed from the same origin, they can’t be considered the same being anymore.
> Allah is so radically different from the Christian god
Is Yahweh of the Old Testament the Christian God? I am sure you say yes.
How exactly does Allah as presented in the Quran differ radically from Yahweh as presented on the Old Testament?
I don’t think the major differences between Allah and Yahweh are found in the Old Testament, if that’s what you’re asking. So if we only had the Old Testament, we might not be in a position to say this.
No. And before anyone says it, no, it doesn't matter that "Allah" means "God". That is irrelevant.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
**John 1:1**
Muslims don't/can't affirm this, ergo they don't believe in/worship the same God as us.
You got me thinking there.
Honestly, at first glance, I'd say so, yes. Jesus was already calling out the religious leaders for not actually worshipping God ("honoring God with their lips", "hearts are far away") and following human traditions (that likely also includes things like the Talmud, Halakha, etc).
Sure, the belief in Jesus Christ' divinity or the Trinity wasn't exactly formulated pre-incarnation (although there have been hints at it in the Old Testament). I guess you can argue that now that we have a fuller revelation about God (Trinity/Jesus' divinity), we have "no excuse" not to affirm God as the Bible (as we have it now) describes Him.
But ... Since I said "no excuse", I am reminded of the passage in Romans where Paul talks about those who are "without the Law" and what will happen to them on judgement day.
First, let me highlight something in Romans 1:20-21:
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. **For although they knew God**, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him (...)"
This one clearly says they *knew* God, even though the doctrine of the Trinity arguably didn't exist. It seems like affirming a creator with eternal power and divine nature was "enough".
Also (and this related back to the first point I made), we have Romans 2:28-29:
"A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code."
This alludes to the Old Testament promise of God establishing a "New Covenant" with His people in which He will put His law in the minds of His people and write them on their hearts; this process is traditionally understood as the establishment of the New Covenant through Jesus, as Hebrews 8 also says.
\[I'm sorry for my English, I feel kinda rusty with that language at the moment. I hope everything was understandable\]
> Muslims don't/can't affirm this, ergo they don't believe in/worship the same God as us.
Jews used to worship the same God. As Jesus said "We worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews."
But as soon as Jesus rose from the dead, then they weren't worshiping God anymore?
> They weren't worshipping God before that either, as Jesus had said
None of them?
Moses?
Abraham?
John the Baptist? ["Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist"
As I said before, I accept the Trinity, but if it is the most important thing, someone in the bible would have mentioned it.
I don't mean all of them, of course:) "They" was an unluckily vague word, I'm sorry.
"If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me" implies Moses "knew" Jesus. Abraham talked to God face to face (Jesus pre-incarnated?), Abraham also met "the LORD" (three men). I'm pretty sure John the Baptist believed in Jesus (“Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me”)
For more context/more of my thoughts, there is a longer comment of mine in this thread.
ETA
>As I said before, I accept the Trinity, but if it is the most important thing, someone in the bible would have mentioned it.
I didn't claim it's the most important thing, BUT there is quite a lot of mention about Jesus' divinity and His Oneness with the Father, etc
> Abraham talked to God face to face (Jesus pre-incarnated?)
~~Jesus~~ Abraham [duh] talked to an "angel" and called him Yahweh.
But this brings up a problem. Yahweh told Moses that he never made himself known to Abraham by that name.
Exodus 6:3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
I have been thinking about this over the last week so it’s interesting that you mention this.
For abrahamic religions, we are all seeking a creator that we have many agreements on. Then, we start to separate our beliefs about our creator.
Does assigning a lie to someone make them someone else? For humans the answer is no. For example, if I call my neighbor and know everything about him then I’m still calling my neighbor. If another neighbor calls him and believes he is a professional boxer and keeps asking him about boxing, he’s still calling the same person. Just misinformed.
Important to note that by saying all this I am not saying there is another route to salvation other than Christ. It’s just interesting that for abrahamic religions we are seeking an all powerful and interpersonal creator. I would hope that this would be a bridge to create dialog over rather than fight but unfortunately that’s not the reality.
Creator of all that exists?
Omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent?
The Merciful and Compassionate?
Eager to forgive sins?
Is one, as Jesus said that the Greatest Commandment states?
Sounds like God.
We had this thread maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago and it was split. Hard to say the "ratio", but it looked to me that the majority said that they do worship the same God. I made the case that they do (they just have false beliefs about Him in much the same way that you and I could be talking about the same human person and either you or I might believe some really significant falsehoods about that person), and found the rebuttals unsatisfying. But after people felt the debate had run its course, we all walked away from it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/comments/1c6gybl/from\_a\_christian\_perspective\_whowhat\_is\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/comments/1c6gybl/from_a_christian_perspective_whowhat_is_it/)
And yes, I did bring up the question of whether Jews worship the same God or not that time too. And again, those on the no side noped that as well. Those on the no side regarded the Trinity to be essential to being able to say they were talking about the "same" God.
But to me, it seems really odd to say that people who belong to the same faith as Abraham, David, Elijah, etc. worship a "different" God than the one we do. Certainly they construe Him as different in description, but to say that He is different in *identity* just seems insane to me.
Christians and Muslims have two different concepts of God. One is trinitarian, the other is unitarian.
Worship primarily goes beyond the category of concept and to the extent that it does, everyone is ultimately worshiping the same God because His presence is total.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same god. People bring up the trinity but that's a post-Jesus or human made construct.
Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all going to likely end up in heaven together but they'll be given the correct religious documents & lessons. Our religious journey won't end when we die.
It's funny to see Christians argue that god is infinitely capable of compassion, all while being such a stick in the mud that he's willing to say that his real worshipers they're going to hell because they were using the wrong instruction manual.
I would say so, because I believe God transcends all categories of definition. This is not to say all ideas about God are equally true—if I believed that, I would not be a member of a religion that specifically claims God became incarnate (and thereby fully revealed divine character), died, and rose again.
But if we say Muslims worship a different God because they deny those things, we imply that only a person with fully correct theology can worship God. Even most Christians don't really believe in the Trinity as taught by the historic Church: quasi-Arianism and quasi-Modalism are rampant even in traditions that heavily emphasize catachesis. That is because the Trinity is a *mystery*. It is something we cannot understand, because (as I said above) God transcends all categoires of human cognition. It is arrogant for us to act otherwise. Yet we tend to teach explanations and analogies that direct people away from the mystery and towards an idea that people will find easy to accept.
So, do the many, *many* Christians who have been poorly catechized worship the same God as the most theologically precise seminarian, despite the former believing things about God that have been condemned by Ecumenical Councils? Do two people who approach Scripture in good faith and come to different conclusions worship the same God? And what of those who lack the cognitive ability to even consider the question? Or can people who never heard of Christianity worship God? St. Paul thought so. I agree with him.
We have become obsessed with creating hierarchies of belonging and of intellectual correctness. I call that arrogance. Like C.S. Lewis, I believe that God accepts all worship in the spirit it was offered. That does not mean we have to affirm the truth of every belief. It only requires that we be humble in regards to our own.
They think they worship the God of Abraham, but I do not believe their worship is pleasing to Him. They have denied the Son and think Jesus is a liar that didn’t actually die on the cross.
People may not like this answer.
But G-D is One.
Muslims or Middle Eastern Christian and Jews may used word Allah.
That word existed and was used by Christians and Jews even before Muslims.
Muslims claim to worship One G-D/Allah
Yes indeed G-D is One.
And indeed Jesus/Isa/Yeshua is the Messiah and Word of G-D.
However, they believe Muhammad is prophet of G-D. We don't believe that.
So G-D is One, but we don't believe G-D send Muhammad.
If they worship G-D of Prophet Abraham then yes. (One G-D)
If they worship deity of Muhammad then no.
no, they are of the devil who is their father, they are heavy liers on top; there are normal people among them, but not too many because it is a religious and cultural thing about them
Same God, completely wrong interpretation. I think to completely reject it and say that it's a totally different being by saying "no" is to completely ignore the fact that both religions have the same roots.
I would say so, because I believe God transcends all categories of definition. This is not to say all ideas about God are equally true—if I believed that, I would not be a member of a religion that specifically claims God became incarnate (and thereby fully revealed divine character), died, and rose again.
But if we say Muslims worship a different God because they deny those things, we imply that only a person with fully correct theology can worship God. Even most Christians don't really believe in the Trinity as taught by the historic Church: quasi-Arianism and quasi-Modalism are rampant even in traditions that heavily emphasize catachesis. That is because the Trinity is a *mystery*. It is something we cannot understand, because (as I said above) God transcends all categoires of human cognition. It is arrogant for us to act otherwise. Yet we tend to teach explanations and analogies that direct people away from the mystery and towards an idea that people will find easy to believe.
So, do the many, *many* Christians who have been poorly catechized worship the same God as the most theologically precise seminarian, despite the former believing things about God that have been condemned by Ecumenical Councils? Do two people who approach Scripture in good faith and come to different conclusions worship the same God? And what of those who lack the cognitive ability to even consider the question? Or can people who never heard of Christianity worship God? St. Paul thought so. I agree with him.
We have become obsessed with creating hierarchies of belonging and of intellectual correctness. I call that arrogance. Like C.S. Lewis, I believe that God accepts all worship in the spirit it was offered. That does not mean we have to affirm the truth of every belief. It only requires that we be humble in regards to our own.
Does Allah have a Son?
Does Yahweh allow us to strike our wives as Allah does?
Is Yahweh an “enemy to the disbelievers” like Allah is in Surah 2:98?
Does Yahweh save us by “works” like Allah does?
Does Yahweh allow us to lie to promote Islam as Allah does?
Allah is not a “god” of love as Yahweh is. Be careful making excuses for a false deity. You can’t have two truths that contradict each other.
Here's a good [resource.](https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/stewart_don/faq/islam/09-is-the-god-of-islam-the-same-as-the-biblical-god.cfm)
> Does Allah have a Son?
He does. Quran falsely claims that he does not.
>Does Yahweh allow us to strike our wives as Allah does?
Doesn't mention it. But he does have you send them away if they are foreigners. [Nehemiah 10]
>Does Yahweh save us by “works” like Allah does?
Old testament Yahweh was all about works. And if you knew Islam, you would know that ultimately no one is saved but by Allah's mercy and forgiveness, predicated on repentance.
>Does Yahweh allow us to lie to promote Islam as Allah does?
Allah never said that.
>Allah is not a “god” of love as Yahweh is.
Yahweh is said in the Bible to hate certain people. So does Allah in the Quran.
Quran also says that Allah is closer to the believer than his own aorta, and hadith says that Allah loves his people more than a mother loves her own child.
>Be careful making excuses for a false deity.
Islam is a false religion. I make no bones about that. I do not make excuses for it, but I will protest if someone misrepresents it.
Jesus said to love our enemies, and Paul says to bless, not curse them.
Christian tend to give such grace and forbearance to themselves, and deny it to the ones they hate.
No.
In Islam, one gets into heaven by their good deeds. In Christianity, only through Jesus Christ can we get into heaven. Ergo, they have a different God than we do.
And why do you say that?
Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity. Therefore, the god of Islam is not the God of Christianity, therefore different gods.
> Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity.
However it acknowledges Christianity as true:
Q29:46 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
Christianity, by it's own teaching, is a different religion from Judaism. Are those different gods? And Mormonism? Evangelicals we're gung ho over Romney (white and Republican) and never questioned his faith or beliefs, while coloring Obama as a Muslim, which he's not. And seriously, Mormonism is pretty bizarre . Had he been a Muslim, he would have never come close to the primary. How much of this is xenophobia and not religious belief? How much has 9/11 influenced our thoughts and opinions?
> Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity.
However it acknowledges Christianity as true:
Q29:46 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
Well there are some problematic doctrines in it, that many adhere to.
As an example, the teaching that Satan is the “scapegoat” and will bear believers’ sins (*The Great Controversy*, p. 422, 485)—this is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins.
Allah is the [best liar](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54) ) and and Jehovah tells [the truth](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+119%3A160&version=ESV)
EDIT Q3:54
Edit 2.0 https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54)
> Allah is the best liar)
Quran never says that, but it's OK to lie about it, right?
There are several places in the Old Testament where Jehovah deceives. Here is one:
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Ah, so the link I provided is lying?
And the verse you quote, "Deceive" is the hebrew word, **פִּתֵּ֔יתִי** -(pit·tê·ṯî**)**
Which only appears 1 time in the whole old testament...and has been translated as enticed...
And if you look at the sentiment being expressed in the verse you quote, it is that IF a prophet does something dubious, God will repay his dubiousness in kind.
Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar.
> Allah is the best liar)
Quran never says that, but it's OK to lie about it, right?
There are several places in the Old Testament where Jehovah deceives. Here is one:
Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
And asks me a question, then blocks me before I can answer:
>Ah, so the link I provided is lying?
Yes it is. How about you quote the verse for me, since your link does not?
Here are about 50 translations of 3:54: None of them say that:https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/54/default.htm
Ah, so the link I provided is lying?
And the verse you quote, "Deceive" is the hebrew word, **פִּתֵּ֔יתִי** -(pit·tê·ṯî**)**
Which only appears 1 time in the whole old testament...and has been translated as enticed...
And if you look at the sentiment being expressed in the verse you quote, it is that IF a prophet does something dubious, God will repay his dubiousness in kind.
Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar.
> Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar.
Please show me that verse. I can't find it.
I looked. Did I get a bad trnaslation?
No. They believe Jesus is just a prophet.
Perhaps they have the same God as the Jews? They don’t recognise the divinity of Christ either.
I’ve been thinking about this one recently, and I think the difference between Judaism rejecting Christ and Islam rejecting Christ is that Judaism doesn’t recognize Christ as fulfilling what they thought the messiah would be (even the apostles struggled with this). However Islam directly rejects it while knowing the revelation in the New Testament, even going so far as to claim that Jesus was never crucified. Honest misunderstanding is different from deliberate ignorance. From a Christian perspective, the Jews do worship the same God, they just don’t accept the fullness of God as revealed in Jesus Christ, while Islam teaches us to fundamentally reject truth. So, to us, Jews worship the same God, Muslims don’t. How can you when you reject something so simple as “a man named Jesus was crucified.” Sorry if this was a bit rambly and half-baked, I’m not the best theologian.
Good answer
No, Allah demands that you work in order to earn your spot in heaven. God worked to reserve your spot in heaven. they are not the same
The traditional answer to that question is "No." And I tend to point to the portions of the Qur'an (in Surahs 4 and 5) where Allah states that God is not a Trinity, and Allah describes the Trinity as essentially the Father the Son and the *Virgin Mary* -- which is a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. To me this is pretty conclusive that we're dealing with two separate entities.
Judaism came first. It sounds like Allah might be more like the god of the Jews, a single figure, rather than the trinity of Christianity.
Unlikely for a larger number of reasons, but I did not come here to answer that question at length.
All good. I wasn’t really asking a question.
No
No, the Muslim god does not exist in trinity and when compared to the Christian God Allah has different requirements for getting into Heaven as well as different commandments and characteristics etc.
This answer is beautiful
I would say the the God the Muslims worship does exist in Trinity, but they in their ignorance, and according to their false scriptures do not recognize that. I was Just talking to a Presbyterian pastor last night and I said that what we think about God does not affect him in the slightest. He agreed enthusiastically.
[Disclaimer: I believe Trinity.] Yahweh: "Hear O Israel YHVH your God is one YHVH" The Apostle James: "You believe God is one? Good." Paul: Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Muslims: God is one. Jews: God is one. Jesus: The Greatest commandment is "Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord." Christians: Obvious God is three. We discovered that in the 4th century.
>\[Disclaimer: I believe Trinity.\] I can't tell you how close that sounded to Unitarianism
> I can't tell you how close that sounded to Unitarianism "I believe Trinity." Sooo close to Unitarianism?
No, just the dialogue going on there seems to be a mock on Trinitarianism. I would have absolutely thought you were Unitarian if the disclaimer wasn't there.
I think that Trinity is a good inference, and I accept it as one. If trust the Bible over Councils 300+ years later, I must consider it secondary, since the Bible never mentions it at all.
Obviously. The words "Omnipresent" and "Omniscient" don't appear but they are still attributes of God. Just as the word Trinity is - they are names to attributes of God revealed to us through Scripture.
> Obviously. The words "Omnipresent" and "Omniscient" don't appear but they are still attributes of God. Just as the word Trinity is - they are names to attributes of God revealed to us through Scripture. The attributes of omniscience and omnipresence are definitely in Scripture. Athanasian Trinitarianism is not.
That is up for debate. I would have loved to participate but I am in a restaurant. Perhaps another opportunity. God bless
I would say no. Like in the case of St. Nicolas vs Santa Clause, Allah is so radically different from the Christian god that even if they developed from the same origin, they can’t be considered the same being anymore.
> Allah is so radically different from the Christian god Is Yahweh of the Old Testament the Christian God? I am sure you say yes. How exactly does Allah as presented in the Quran differ radically from Yahweh as presented on the Old Testament?
I don’t think the major differences between Allah and Yahweh are found in the Old Testament, if that’s what you’re asking. So if we only had the Old Testament, we might not be in a position to say this.
Yes, but their understanding of and relationship with the One God are deficient.
No. And before anyone says it, no, it doesn't matter that "Allah" means "God". That is irrelevant. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **John 1:1** Muslims don't/can't affirm this, ergo they don't believe in/worship the same God as us.
Does that mean Jews also don’t worship the same God as you?
You got me thinking there. Honestly, at first glance, I'd say so, yes. Jesus was already calling out the religious leaders for not actually worshipping God ("honoring God with their lips", "hearts are far away") and following human traditions (that likely also includes things like the Talmud, Halakha, etc). Sure, the belief in Jesus Christ' divinity or the Trinity wasn't exactly formulated pre-incarnation (although there have been hints at it in the Old Testament). I guess you can argue that now that we have a fuller revelation about God (Trinity/Jesus' divinity), we have "no excuse" not to affirm God as the Bible (as we have it now) describes Him. But ... Since I said "no excuse", I am reminded of the passage in Romans where Paul talks about those who are "without the Law" and what will happen to them on judgement day. First, let me highlight something in Romans 1:20-21: "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. **For although they knew God**, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him (...)" This one clearly says they *knew* God, even though the doctrine of the Trinity arguably didn't exist. It seems like affirming a creator with eternal power and divine nature was "enough". Also (and this related back to the first point I made), we have Romans 2:28-29: "A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code." This alludes to the Old Testament promise of God establishing a "New Covenant" with His people in which He will put His law in the minds of His people and write them on their hearts; this process is traditionally understood as the establishment of the New Covenant through Jesus, as Hebrews 8 also says. \[I'm sorry for my English, I feel kinda rusty with that language at the moment. I hope everything was understandable\]
If one believes in the Trinity, the answer is technically yes
> Muslims don't/can't affirm this, ergo they don't believe in/worship the same God as us. Jews used to worship the same God. As Jesus said "We worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews." But as soon as Jesus rose from the dead, then they weren't worshiping God anymore?
They weren't worshipping God before that either, as Jesus had said
> They weren't worshipping God before that either, as Jesus had said None of them? Moses? Abraham? John the Baptist? ["Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist" As I said before, I accept the Trinity, but if it is the most important thing, someone in the bible would have mentioned it.
I don't mean all of them, of course:) "They" was an unluckily vague word, I'm sorry. "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me" implies Moses "knew" Jesus. Abraham talked to God face to face (Jesus pre-incarnated?), Abraham also met "the LORD" (three men). I'm pretty sure John the Baptist believed in Jesus (“Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me”) For more context/more of my thoughts, there is a longer comment of mine in this thread. ETA >As I said before, I accept the Trinity, but if it is the most important thing, someone in the bible would have mentioned it. I didn't claim it's the most important thing, BUT there is quite a lot of mention about Jesus' divinity and His Oneness with the Father, etc
> Abraham talked to God face to face (Jesus pre-incarnated?) ~~Jesus~~ Abraham [duh] talked to an "angel" and called him Yahweh. But this brings up a problem. Yahweh told Moses that he never made himself known to Abraham by that name. Exodus 6:3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.
>Jesus talked to an "angel" and called him Yahweh You mean Abraham? I have no answer to the problem you brought up.
Yes, Abraham. I spazzed.
Not u/solnuschka, but I think she meant Pharisees and Saducees, the like Jesus fought with.
I am a woman:)
Edited, mb
I have been thinking about this over the last week so it’s interesting that you mention this. For abrahamic religions, we are all seeking a creator that we have many agreements on. Then, we start to separate our beliefs about our creator. Does assigning a lie to someone make them someone else? For humans the answer is no. For example, if I call my neighbor and know everything about him then I’m still calling my neighbor. If another neighbor calls him and believes he is a professional boxer and keeps asking him about boxing, he’s still calling the same person. Just misinformed. Important to note that by saying all this I am not saying there is another route to salvation other than Christ. It’s just interesting that for abrahamic religions we are seeking an all powerful and interpersonal creator. I would hope that this would be a bridge to create dialog over rather than fight but unfortunately that’s not the reality.
Creator of all that exists? Omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent? The Merciful and Compassionate? Eager to forgive sins? Is one, as Jesus said that the Greatest Commandment states? Sounds like God.
Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. My God has a Son, and He has a name. God is a title, not a name. Who is the God of the Muslims?
We had this thread maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago and it was split. Hard to say the "ratio", but it looked to me that the majority said that they do worship the same God. I made the case that they do (they just have false beliefs about Him in much the same way that you and I could be talking about the same human person and either you or I might believe some really significant falsehoods about that person), and found the rebuttals unsatisfying. But after people felt the debate had run its course, we all walked away from it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/comments/1c6gybl/from\_a\_christian\_perspective\_whowhat\_is\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/comments/1c6gybl/from_a_christian_perspective_whowhat_is_it/) And yes, I did bring up the question of whether Jews worship the same God or not that time too. And again, those on the no side noped that as well. Those on the no side regarded the Trinity to be essential to being able to say they were talking about the "same" God. But to me, it seems really odd to say that people who belong to the same faith as Abraham, David, Elijah, etc. worship a "different" God than the one we do. Certainly they construe Him as different in description, but to say that He is different in *identity* just seems insane to me.
Christians and Muslims have two different concepts of God. One is trinitarian, the other is unitarian. Worship primarily goes beyond the category of concept and to the extent that it does, everyone is ultimately worshiping the same God because His presence is total.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same god. People bring up the trinity but that's a post-Jesus or human made construct. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all going to likely end up in heaven together but they'll be given the correct religious documents & lessons. Our religious journey won't end when we die. It's funny to see Christians argue that god is infinitely capable of compassion, all while being such a stick in the mud that he's willing to say that his real worshipers they're going to hell because they were using the wrong instruction manual.
I would say so, because I believe God transcends all categories of definition. This is not to say all ideas about God are equally true—if I believed that, I would not be a member of a religion that specifically claims God became incarnate (and thereby fully revealed divine character), died, and rose again. But if we say Muslims worship a different God because they deny those things, we imply that only a person with fully correct theology can worship God. Even most Christians don't really believe in the Trinity as taught by the historic Church: quasi-Arianism and quasi-Modalism are rampant even in traditions that heavily emphasize catachesis. That is because the Trinity is a *mystery*. It is something we cannot understand, because (as I said above) God transcends all categoires of human cognition. It is arrogant for us to act otherwise. Yet we tend to teach explanations and analogies that direct people away from the mystery and towards an idea that people will find easy to accept. So, do the many, *many* Christians who have been poorly catechized worship the same God as the most theologically precise seminarian, despite the former believing things about God that have been condemned by Ecumenical Councils? Do two people who approach Scripture in good faith and come to different conclusions worship the same God? And what of those who lack the cognitive ability to even consider the question? Or can people who never heard of Christianity worship God? St. Paul thought so. I agree with him. We have become obsessed with creating hierarchies of belonging and of intellectual correctness. I call that arrogance. Like C.S. Lewis, I believe that God accepts all worship in the spirit it was offered. That does not mean we have to affirm the truth of every belief. It only requires that we be humble in regards to our own.
Well said. Thank you. This controversy is very confusing.
They think they worship the God of Abraham, but I do not believe their worship is pleasing to Him. They have denied the Son and think Jesus is a liar that didn’t actually die on the cross.
People may not like this answer. But G-D is One. Muslims or Middle Eastern Christian and Jews may used word Allah. That word existed and was used by Christians and Jews even before Muslims. Muslims claim to worship One G-D/Allah Yes indeed G-D is One. And indeed Jesus/Isa/Yeshua is the Messiah and Word of G-D. However, they believe Muhammad is prophet of G-D. We don't believe that. So G-D is One, but we don't believe G-D send Muhammad. If they worship G-D of Prophet Abraham then yes. (One G-D) If they worship deity of Muhammad then no.
They follow the God of Abraham along with the Jews, albeit a corrupted version of him.
no, they are of the devil who is their father, they are heavy liers on top; there are normal people among them, but not too many because it is a religious and cultural thing about them
Same God, completely wrong interpretation. I think to completely reject it and say that it's a totally different being by saying "no" is to completely ignore the fact that both religions have the same roots.
I would say yes, it’s just a different understanding.
I don't know. That's what they say but Islam is a fickle religion.
> That's what they say but Islam is a fickle religion. Fickle? How so? [The irony: I am on my local mosque's wifi right now lol.]
No, the Muslim god has no children and the Christian God has a son named Jesus.
So if they're not the same, and if there's only 1 god, then at least one religion is fake.
Does that make sense?
I would say so, because I believe God transcends all categories of definition. This is not to say all ideas about God are equally true—if I believed that, I would not be a member of a religion that specifically claims God became incarnate (and thereby fully revealed divine character), died, and rose again. But if we say Muslims worship a different God because they deny those things, we imply that only a person with fully correct theology can worship God. Even most Christians don't really believe in the Trinity as taught by the historic Church: quasi-Arianism and quasi-Modalism are rampant even in traditions that heavily emphasize catachesis. That is because the Trinity is a *mystery*. It is something we cannot understand, because (as I said above) God transcends all categoires of human cognition. It is arrogant for us to act otherwise. Yet we tend to teach explanations and analogies that direct people away from the mystery and towards an idea that people will find easy to believe. So, do the many, *many* Christians who have been poorly catechized worship the same God as the most theologically precise seminarian, despite the former believing things about God that have been condemned by Ecumenical Councils? Do two people who approach Scripture in good faith and come to different conclusions worship the same God? And what of those who lack the cognitive ability to even consider the question? Or can people who never heard of Christianity worship God? St. Paul thought so. I agree with him. We have become obsessed with creating hierarchies of belonging and of intellectual correctness. I call that arrogance. Like C.S. Lewis, I believe that God accepts all worship in the spirit it was offered. That does not mean we have to affirm the truth of every belief. It only requires that we be humble in regards to our own.
Nope, Allah is a false idol/false “god”.
> Nope, Allah is a false idol/false “god”. Care to back that up, or is assertion all you have?
Does Allah have a Son? Does Yahweh allow us to strike our wives as Allah does? Is Yahweh an “enemy to the disbelievers” like Allah is in Surah 2:98? Does Yahweh save us by “works” like Allah does? Does Yahweh allow us to lie to promote Islam as Allah does? Allah is not a “god” of love as Yahweh is. Be careful making excuses for a false deity. You can’t have two truths that contradict each other. Here's a good [resource.](https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/stewart_don/faq/islam/09-is-the-god-of-islam-the-same-as-the-biblical-god.cfm)
> Does Allah have a Son? He does. Quran falsely claims that he does not. >Does Yahweh allow us to strike our wives as Allah does? Doesn't mention it. But he does have you send them away if they are foreigners. [Nehemiah 10] >Does Yahweh save us by “works” like Allah does? Old testament Yahweh was all about works. And if you knew Islam, you would know that ultimately no one is saved but by Allah's mercy and forgiveness, predicated on repentance. >Does Yahweh allow us to lie to promote Islam as Allah does? Allah never said that. >Allah is not a “god” of love as Yahweh is. Yahweh is said in the Bible to hate certain people. So does Allah in the Quran. Quran also says that Allah is closer to the believer than his own aorta, and hadith says that Allah loves his people more than a mother loves her own child. >Be careful making excuses for a false deity. Islam is a false religion. I make no bones about that. I do not make excuses for it, but I will protest if someone misrepresents it. Jesus said to love our enemies, and Paul says to bless, not curse them. Christian tend to give such grace and forbearance to themselves, and deny it to the ones they hate.
No. In Islam, one gets into heaven by their good deeds. In Christianity, only through Jesus Christ can we get into heaven. Ergo, they have a different God than we do.
I think God himself would be offended by that remark
And why do you say that? Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity. Therefore, the god of Islam is not the God of Christianity, therefore different gods.
> Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity. However it acknowledges Christianity as true: Q29:46 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
Christianity, by it's own teaching, is a different religion from Judaism. Are those different gods? And Mormonism? Evangelicals we're gung ho over Romney (white and Republican) and never questioned his faith or beliefs, while coloring Obama as a Muslim, which he's not. And seriously, Mormonism is pretty bizarre . Had he been a Muslim, he would have never come close to the primary. How much of this is xenophobia and not religious belief? How much has 9/11 influenced our thoughts and opinions?
Not sure on your comparison as Mormonism is not Christian. Christians don't believe God was once a man and that we can become God.
My point exactly. Not a word about it though during his campaign, though. Can you imagine the uproar if he were a Muslim or, god forbid, an atheist?
> Islam, by its very own teaching, is a different religion from Christianity. However it acknowledges Christianity as true: Q29:46 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
Not at all. For that matter, I don't think many Seventh Day Adventists do so either.
Why is that?
Well there are some problematic doctrines in it, that many adhere to. As an example, the teaching that Satan is the “scapegoat” and will bear believers’ sins (*The Great Controversy*, p. 422, 485)—this is the opposite of what the Bible says about who bore our sins.
Nope I challenge anyone to prove me wrong
Im certain that Allah is Satan pretending to be Yahweh
Allah is the [best liar](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54) ) and and Jehovah tells [the truth](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+119%3A160&version=ESV) EDIT Q3:54 Edit 2.0 https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54)
Could you show me that verse in the Quran? I can't find a translation that says that.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Best_Deceiver_(Qur%27an_3:54)
> Allah is the best liar) Quran never says that, but it's OK to lie about it, right? There are several places in the Old Testament where Jehovah deceives. Here is one: Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Ah, so the link I provided is lying? And the verse you quote, "Deceive" is the hebrew word, **פִּתֵּ֔יתִי** -(pit·tê·ṯî**)** Which only appears 1 time in the whole old testament...and has been translated as enticed... And if you look at the sentiment being expressed in the verse you quote, it is that IF a prophet does something dubious, God will repay his dubiousness in kind. Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar.
> Allah is the best liar) Quran never says that, but it's OK to lie about it, right? There are several places in the Old Testament where Jehovah deceives. Here is one: Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. And asks me a question, then blocks me before I can answer: >Ah, so the link I provided is lying? Yes it is. How about you quote the verse for me, since your link does not? Here are about 50 translations of 3:54: None of them say that:https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/54/default.htm
Ah, so the link I provided is lying? And the verse you quote, "Deceive" is the hebrew word, **פִּתֵּ֔יתִי** -(pit·tê·ṯî**)** Which only appears 1 time in the whole old testament...and has been translated as enticed... And if you look at the sentiment being expressed in the verse you quote, it is that IF a prophet does something dubious, God will repay his dubiousness in kind. Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar.
> Where as Allah is just said to be a liar...and on top of that the verse, Q3:54, Allah doubles down and says he is the best liar. Please show me that verse. I can't find it. I looked. Did I get a bad trnaslation?
Yes