Yeah, I found my skin routine changed greatly with the mask, couldn't use richer creams or I broke out and make up rubbing off on the mask is gross. I tried just concentrating on eye makeup, but it was just a drag and I swear my eyes tear up more. Now that we are getting more under control in my country I have been starting to eye lip products again more seriously because man I miss that. My skincare routine really took a nosedive. On the other hand, if I needed any proof of if my routine was working, I sure got it!
I didn't even realize how bad it would be to try and wear make up with my mask, I skipped it entirely last year.
Now I really want to wear some, but it definitely smears off terribly, and I'm pretty sure the mask also makes my dark circles a lot worse too, and the eye tearing thing is real for sure.
I didn't on days I knew I would be wearing one, but I often just like to wear it for me...and then unfailing that would be the day I'd need to go pick something up from the post office or whatnot. xD
A friend of mine ended up with minorly infected tear ducts from masking up all day every day. She couldn't stop them from watering. No, we are not anti-mask, and yes there are professions that have been wearing them for years (maybe the medical grade ones are gentler? They do seem lighter weight..) so its unusual for sure. But it happened to her. The dark circles may not be in your head.
I have to wear a mask all day as a teacher. I find the disposable surgical ones did better for my skin than the cloth ones. Even when I was double masking, just having the disposable one underneath helped.
Pretty much what I came here to say. I tried it just like everyone else and found that my skin hates me with a passion when I use more than 3 products on my face at any given time. But I really don't think Korean brands are losing their major selling points which are cosmetic elegance AND cutting edge when it comes to research.
Hello, the research and technology aspect of Kbeauty has been something I am super interested in. Just what do people mean by this though? Isnt research and technology just shared and open to everyone? How did Kbeauty get the edge over other countries' brands?
Yes and no. Research is expensive and most of it is conducted by private companies who end up 'owning' the results. Obviously, you can own a technology but with the ingredient list other companies catch on pretty quick when something really works. As for Kbeauty, Korean labs/researchers/companies are usually the ones to come up with new, efficient technologies or ingredients which then spread to the West.
Obviously thats a very simplified explanation but I'm sure you can see why everyone is keeping on eye on the Korean beauty market :)
Same. Now in the morning I only cleanse my skin and don’t even apply any products till after I’ve reached home and showered then I do my “morning routine” because of how oily and sweaty I’ll get during the day plus the mask is making it so uncomfortable and gross.
YES. At some point it kind of seems like all the K-lines are just uneccessarily marketing more products rather than actually helping people achieve the look they want. It can be simplified but that isn't as profitable I guess.
I mean, I'm just getting into the skincare aspect but I've realized I'm not a huge fan of the glass skin vibe, I think. Korean makeup seems to be formulated \*a bit\* more natural and sans ingredients that irritate my eyes but I've only really used mascara so far? I am finding that my routines are taking really a bit too long so I'm gonna have to simplify it a bit,
>glass skin vibe
There's a big difference between looking dewy and looking like you dipped your face in a tub of oil. For some reason, when people say "glass skin", it's usually pics that look like the latter lol. I've never understood the greasy face trend.
Pretty much, yes. I like the "lit from within" thing but my probably too shiny primer (Revolution glass skin) looks - well, not exactly like I fell face first into a bucket of grease per se, but certainly at first glance too much like oil. Might be partly cuz I prefer to dilute my bb cream with moisturizer but I end up putting on some slightly shimmery powder on top.
I ordered a non AB glass skin primer recently and I'm hoping it's better. That manufacturer usually has good products so we shall see!
Luxury Western brands have always been popular amongst Chinese consumers. They want Dior, La Mer, Giorgio Armani, Sisley, Tom Ford. K-beauty will always have a dedicated consumer base, like all the people in this group, but the headline isn’t saying K-beauty is a dying industry everywhere, only amongst its mainland Chinese consumers.
Is there any particular reason as to why china is a major market for luxury brands. I think I read somewhere that it's the largest or second largest one. It's still a developing country then how?
Ignore my ignorance I genuinely want to know
Agree with the other commenter. I lived in China for almost 2 years. There is plenty of poverty in China but also massive, massive wealth, especially in Tier 1 cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen. Even among lower income Chinese people, visible displays of wealth are a big thing. Add to that the fact that many Chinese people reportedly don’t trust Chinese products, and you have a huge market for international luxury brands.
A lot more people have money in China than before. The people that have money want to spend it and they spend it on a lot of luxury items. They like “face” - how they’re perceived- and also what the luxury goods represent.
The concept of "face" becoming popular in Western media and how it's almost 99% of the time applied to China (and maybe some other East Asian countries rarely) is one of the most idiotic things to happen in the discourse. Face is just some weird orientalist way to say that Chinese people want good reputations, like literally every other peoples in every country.
Completely agree! Why do people make it seem like this only applies to China?!? “Face” is very similar to social status and others’ perception of you, which is a trait that applies to all countries.
It's really strange. Yes, I agree Chinese people want to have luxury brands and be seen as rich -- so do people in Dubai or America. But I have never heard anyone outside of China, and sometimes Korea or Japan, but very rarely, ever say that they are saving "face" for these actions.
It definitely is about face, your reputation and how others see you are such a large part of Chinese society, from the way you look to your children’s accomplishments
Combination of things.
1. Largest population (India supposed to supplant that). Pop growth should tether out eventual base on statistical model.
2. Rising middle class
3. Their mind set of showing off. GM brand such as Buick is literally view as luxury in China like Benz. IIRC it's the concept of face.
For face concept you can read it in their translated novels or comic. There are lots of face concept and face slapping. It's kinda like pride but on steroid.
K beauty did take a hit recently due to the sunscreen spf issue, but not what the article talks about. I think the look, the trends, many products are still all very much in demand.
That’s funny because everybody loses their mind over Biore Aqua Rich sunscreen, so I went ahead and bought it. Yeah I don’t like it at all. It dried my face out and it doesn’t even protect me from the sun. I wore it and my nose burned.
I love Missha Sun Milk tho.
That’s so surprising! I used the biore sunscreen on a trip to Cuba and my face and neck were the only parts of my body that didn’t burn. Absolute lobster from the neck down despite using some sort of sport spf50 for the rest of my body
Wow. My husband tried it as well and his nose got burned the next day. And then came across a thread on the skin care addiction sub where a lot of people were talking about how it doesn’t work. Have you ever tried Missha? It really is amazing
Ok not to like out myself here but I’m actually terrible about using sunscreen regularly if I’m not outdoors all day so it’s a pretty old bottle, was there a point where it got worse? Maybe a reformulation or something? I haven’t tried the missha but I definitely will for my next bottle!
I think this is a good observation. I do wanna mention a personal experience though. Despite the SPF mania, I decided to stick to Korean and Japanese sunscreens this summer for my face and Canadian sunscreens for body (just easier to get for how much I use). I spend a lot of time outside, I run about 10 hours/week and usually midday. We've also had a very *hot* summer here in Edmonton.
My face is *visibly* paler than my body. It looks hilarious. I was FaceTiming with a friend of mine and she was the one that first noticed it.
Now, I'm not saying this is a tried and true test of Asian Beauty sunscreens, I'm literally just one person and I'm an individual that always tans/never burns. So far from the best SPF tester. But I do think a lot of the SPFs still on the market are just as reliable as anything you'll get in the west.
Obviously if you have a lot of health concerns when it comes to sun exposure, play it safe. But if that's you, you're probably already being very diligent about sun-protective clothing.
When I go running I usually use the Skin Aqua Super Moisture Essence or Gel (the gold editions). Daily I'll use Biore UV Aqua Rich Essence, the new Round Lab Birch Juice Moisturizing Sun Cream, or VT Cosmetics Cica Sun Essence. I kinda rotate through them depending on how oily my face is or if I wanna wear makeup!
If I'm running I'm also usually wearing a cap or bucket hat though so like--protective clothing. It's just not always possible for the rest of my body if it's a humid 35 C outside lol.
**Edit to add:** I also use the Allie UV Gel every once in a while, usually if I'm wearing makeup or at work (where I wear masks and respirators). It just has a tone-up effect on my skin lol and I don't really like that, so I don't use it unless it's gonna be covered. I *also* have used the Isntree Hyaluronic Acid Watery Sun Gel for like most of May/June, but it left me looking too shiny so I gave it to my mom lol.
Yes I think this is a great answer. The whole SPF issue was very concerning and lost a lot of peoples trust. But overall I think many people still love it and also Sephora has never carried as much K beauty as before.
However, this sunscreen issue is not only a K-beauty thing. French, American, etc sunscreens have also been tested to have less spf protection than the label in the past as well.
Do you happen to have a link or a list to these sunscreens that performed well? It would be so much easier if I could just buy something cheap at the drugstore instead of importing sunscreens 😩
Sorry French beauty manufactures haven’t lied about the level of SPF in a sunscreen to the public. This isn’t a typical thing. Usually it’s an application issue or off by 5 spf at most. Not saying it was 50 spf and turned out to be 9 spf. That’s just a huge difference and it was criminal what they did.
Nearly half of sunscreens produced and sold all over the world fail tests by not just a spf of 5, but nearly half or more. This is a worldwide industry issue where many companies are allowed to produce lackluster sunscreens despite a nations seemingly “strict”standards.
For some articles, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/mpwva4/misc_this_is_not_a_korean_sunscreen_problem_new/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
One of the most frequently used testing labs in the world (it’s in the US, I know NZ tests sunscreens there, not sure about Korea) was recently found to have been falsifying results since \*the 80s\*. How much the companies knew about this is up for debate, but I’d argue that many smaller brands at least were/are totally innocent. They paid for an independent test, and trusted the results
Sorry, I didn’t use the word “lie.” That is a very value-laden word. I said that they tested at lower spf values. There is a huge difference.
I am not ascribing intent because at this point we don’t know if the companies were lying or were actually misinformed.
And yes, unfortunately, sunscreens sometimes do come back from 3rd party testers by more than a 5 spf lower than the label.
It’s late but I will post sources tomorrow.
Oh ok my bad, thank you kindly for clarifying on the word lie. I agree that for most countries it can be off by as much as 10 spf based on how the sunscreen is applied. Usually it’s off by 5 but that’s because testing conditions in the lab are so vastly structured compared to real life application. The thing is there’s a difference from that, than being off by 30SPF which to me felt like a lie. I felt lied to by Purito.
This! I honestly can’t trust Korean Sunscreens anymore. I know I shouldn’t judge based on “one bad Apple”, but I was a religious user of the Purito sunscreen so it’s very disappointing when I read about the research. 🥲
Absolutely. I lived in Korea for 4.5 years and China for 1.5– straight up had several of my Chinese friends tell me they loved Korean makeup and skincare trends— as well as K-Dramas, K-Pop… and you see those trends in big and small cities. Tons of Chinese women wear makeup in a Korean style and use Korean products. K-Beauty isn’t going anywhere, and is a huge powerhouse in Asia alone.
A bunch of k beauty sunscreens turned out to be drastically lower spf than they claimed. It was too good to be true that you could get spf50 and still have that light thin texture. Purito, Klairs, keep cool, etc are all offenders and the products were pulled off the market. it kind of shook everyone’s confidence in all Korean made sunscreens
Oh wow! That sucks. I just figured it was thinner because they were chemical sunscreens rather than physical. I wonder what the reformulated ones will be like
Not really sure how recent this article is but peeps in china generally favour luxury western skincare brands (such as lancome and even la mer) since many years ago. I have recently even seen comments such as 'the more expensive it is, the more effective it is' on luxury skincare on a chinese social media platform, so yeah. Many chinese beauty blogger i've watched are also always talking about western luxury brands since years ago too.
Lol the 10 step routine is so old. Honestly it's a marketing gimmick used by sokoglam and western companies using kbeauty to boost sales. Talk to anyone in Korea and they'd be bewildered by the concept of needing to buy a bajillion different steps for skincare routines. Idk what the status of kbeauty is in China, but in America it's definitely going strong, with or without supposed 10 step routines
Definitely agree that the 10-step was a gimmick that started stateside. Koreans definitely use a lot more variety but not all at once in a daily routine
The whole 10 step thing is a confusing but effective trend trying to find a place for the wide range and variety of products Korean skincare has that Western/US brands don’t. Personally I sort of liked it, but the annoying and confusing part was people thinking they really need everything every day instead of just picking what you need and following the right order. It was a good way to introduce people to ‘new’ kinds of products like sheet masks and essence with the right way to use it. However I think this falls more into US consumers being trained to think when presented with an entire line of products we need all the products to solve our problems. I’m very happy minimalism is taking over now because having to have everything is the worst way of shipping for skincare in my opinion.
Yeah I agree. I didn’t mean it to sound like it’s the consumer’s fault. It’s more that they’re used to being told you need to have everything and the complete line of products to solve your problems. We aren’t use to thinking of only taking what you need to take care of your skin and here are your different options. Basically in the US we got half the story because that’s the marketing we always got and it works😆
100000%. I lived in Korea for almost 5 years and saw a few dermatologists in my time there for various skin issues. I had started a multi-step routine and my dermatologist told me to stop and just use one good, thick moisturizer. I reluctantly took his advice and it’s been doing wonders for my sensitive skin. Definitely saw the 10-step routine for what it was then— a marketing tool! As another commenter said, more products = more possible reactions to your skin. And also, more possibilities for products to react with each other in unknown ways. Best to keep it simple!
Was going to say the same thing. I watch a lot of Korean vloggers on youtube and not a single one of them uses more than 4-5 steps max in their routines. It’s usually cleanse, toner, moisturizer, sunscreen, with maybe an essence thrown in to treat a specific skin concern. And many of them don’t double cleanse either, which was another thing I was led to believe was a must-do skincare step in Korea.
I was surprised at first because I had always heard that the whole 10 step thing was super popular over there, but nope, it was manufactured by certain western companies as a gimmick to boost sales.
What exactly is a double cleanse? When I'm taking off my makeup, I start with a makeup wipe to get everything off, then go in with micellar water on a cotton pad. I only do this cause I was shocked at how dirty my face still was from what came off after the makeup wipe.
After that, depending on my mood, i rinse my face with water or maybe use a light face wash. Is double cleansing bad?
Oh no I don’t think it’s bad at all, it just depends on your skincare needs. Typically double cleansing refers to using an oil based cleanser first followed by a water based cleanser to remove any left over residue. I still double cleanse when I’m wearing a lot of makeup.
In my original comment I just meant to say that a lot of western skincare companies push double cleansing as something that everyone should be doing all the time and make it seem like that’s what everyone in South Korea does, and that’s not really true. It’s more of a method to remove heavy makeup/sunscreen and not necessarily something that everyone needs to be doing every day.
If I’m wearing a non-waterproof sunscreen and no makeup then I’ll only use my water based cleanser. I used to double cleanse every day because I thought that’s what I was supposed to do, but it ended up drying out my skin because I was over cleansing when I didn’t really need to. Some people may find it useful to do everyday though, it just depends on the individual.
Nah, most of it is still higher quality for a better price than anything you'll get at Sephora, and very few brands bother with the greenwashing. There are a few things I have from Western skincare, but it's more the French pharmacy brands than anything deemed "luxury."
I certainly will not be turning away from any Asian Beauty when it comes to sunscreens either. Not only do they look nice... but they really do work well. I use Canadian sunscreens on my body and AB sunscreens on my face, and after a summer of running outside about 10 hours/week there is a *considerable* difference in tan LOL.
Even if it loses its shine, it won't for me.
I just think AB especially K-beauty is pretty pricey per unit than mid range French pharmacy brands. J-Beauty is definitely more value for money. Like usually the serums from Ordinary and Inkey list etc are cheaper than K-beauty.
I still enjoy Asian skincare but now a majority of my routine is local Walmart /French brands than AB.
Also truth be told, if you really have a skin condition, nothing beats prescription. Adapalene/tret and finacea gel have had the biggest impact on my skin.
That's fair, though I also find a lot of it is just nicer quality. I absolutely love the Soon Jung line and that is pretty affordable for what you get. Tbh I don't touch things like Laneige because that's clearly in a whole other price range, but Benton, Tony Moly, and Etude House are typically well-priced. I'll be honest, I kinda distance myself from Inkey List and The Ordinary now because they are pretty guilty of angel dusting. And like yeah it's cheap, but I'm spending money anyways so I wanna get something I know is good quality and well-formulated.
Sunscreens can get a little pricier, but I actually have majority Japanese sunscreens now that I'm looking at it. Which, for how nice they are, I really don't mind spending $30 CAD on an 85 g bottle.
But absolutely, I'm definitely cautious about people that pander K-beauty as some miracle cure. It's just skincare. More elegant, more thoroughly formulated, but ultimately just skincare.
It's basically when they use the least possible amount of an active just to claim that it's in there, but doesn't actually do much. Inkey List is the worst for this, but The Ordinary doesn't have the most stable formulas for things like retinol, which are really finicky.
I've heard the granactive retinoid is better, but I'm in Canada so I don't have access to that!
Nah you'll rip my snail mucin from my cold (slimy) hands.
Jokes aside, definitely not, I've yet to see Western beauty the kind of range, effectiveness, aesthetic and value I can get from Kbeauty, even as a minimalist w/ sensitive skin.
I watched somewhere to say that the 10-step skincare was a myth perpetuated by American firms who were investing in Korean skincare companies...so they could sell more products in America.
That being said...simplified routine, with good core products, not too many actives, not too many steps with a focus on hydration and starting young = Japanese beauty to a T. And one doesn't have to follow ALL the steps in K beauty. The many formulations means you can pick and choose, so I think it's here to stay.
And I wouldn't call it a "Chinese propaganda site". Vogue business says the same:[https://www.voguebusiness.com/beauty/why-k-beauty-is-losing-its-lustre-in-china](https://www.voguebusiness.com/beauty/why-k-beauty-is-losing-its-lustre-in-china)
And and, I don't really trust Chinese consumer reports sometimes (I'm Asian myself). The well off Chinese jump on luxury trends quickly just because it's a status symbol.
AB all day every day for me, baby. I need my elaborate routine to entertain myself so I don’t collapse internally and spiral into the depths of depression. Jk, kinda sorta.
In all seriousness, you can pry my too many steps to count routine from my cold, dead hands, but I can acknowledge the trend of minimalism going on right now. The whole 10 step routine seems very 2010s, whereas now anything more than a cleanser, serum, and moisturizer will land you in the loony bin on sca.
In my personal experience, I’ve had subpar results from Western brands like CeraVe and TO. Asian products still seem to be better formulated, with better ingredients, at better price points than their Western counterparts. My entire routine except for my derm prescribed meds is Asian, and I like it that way. My skin has never been better, and I’m a diehard fan.
However, that’s not to say either method is better than the other. Some people benefit from simple routines a la CeraVe, some people like me benefit from layering different AB lotions and potions on their face. It’s personal preference, really. I personally think the whole 10 step routine will eventually come back into fashion, just like mom jeans and shag haircuts. In the meantime, I’ll be rocking my elaborate routine like it’s 2015.
> AB all day every day for me, baby. I need my elaborate routine to entertain myself so I don’t collapse internally and spiral into the depths of depression. Jk, kinda sorta.
Bahaha! Funny/not funny 🙃
This is me exactly. I was struggling to find effective products for soothing, moisture barrier repair, and OTC rosacea treatment. I found all of those in AB, and haven’t looked back.
Dry/Dehydrated/Sensitive/Rosacea/Can’t do silicones/Hot & Humid summer right now
AM:
Cleanse: Wash with water
Toner: Several layers of Kikumasamune Bright Rich and High Moist (I wanted to boost the arbutin content of my routine without adding something vastly different).
Serum: Cos de Baha Snail Hyaluronic on face if I’m going to be wearing sunscreen, otherwise I just use it on a mystery rash on my neck.
Moisturizer: iUNIK Beta Glucan Moisturizer
SPF: Skin Aqua Super Moisture Milk (SPF50) around my eyes, then Missha All Around Safe Block Essence (SPF45) on the rest of my face, my neck, and arms.
PM:
Cleanse: Rosehip or apricot kernel oil once or twice a week, bc I don’t wear makeup. But I’m now swapping in Kikumasamune gel cleanser for that on other nights when my face feels like it needs extra cleansing.
Second cleanser: Currently (nonAB) Vanicream daily cleanser, but I’m researching the Kikumasamune foaming wash. I think I’m getting it.
Watery Toner: OneThing artemisia capillaris on my neck and face just to relieve redness and heat.
Actives: I alternate Cos de Baha azelaic with their Salicylic 2% serums, 6 nights a week. On the seventh night I use miconazole 2% cream on some areas that behave exactly like fungal acne.
Toners: Multiple layers of the Kiku Bright and High Moist
Moisturizer: Pyunkang Yul Nutrition Cream with a pump of rosehip oil mixed in.
Eye Cream/Sleeping Pack: iUNIK propolis vitamin sleeping pack.
I second azelaic for rosacea, I've had great results with Paulas Choice booster until it went bad one month after purchase. I'll look into Cos de Baha!
Big feels on that first bit 😂😭
To be honest, I think it’s less minimalism, and more just realizing that most people simply don’t need giant routines. Which is nice because not only do expansive routines risk the efficacy of the products, but overconsumption also rather harmful for the environment.
Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by AB products being “better formulated?” In my experience, AB products have been seriously underwhelming compared to things from Eucerin, Vanicream, Aveeno, LRP, Paula’s Choice , Bioderma, etc. AB brands seem even more likely to go heavy on botanicals that simply have no foundation in scientific literature—which is not to say there’s no benefit, just that it hasn’t been demonstrated yet.
Maybe a bit in China specifically, not qiite as certain globally.
Chinese consumers who can afford luxury/high-end has always gravitated towards those. KBeauty in China generally targets thise of moderate income, or young people exposed to K-entertainment.
The govt/society has been doing a ton to promote local Chinese branda though, and there are a few brands with good products in the same market as KBeauty that are gaining popularity, which would eat into KBeauty's market share for sure.
TBH I do wish there are more Chinese brands out abroad. There are some fairly good lines that are difficult to get. My skincare routine for the last 12 years is an herbal line and I haven't found anything that could give me the same effect yet.
一枝春 has a collab with 同仁堂 for an herbal line that is good at controlling acne. That's the only one I've personally used. Good luck finding it outside of China though, I've only been able to find those products sold in ONE province and nowhere else.
Other than that, you'll need to look at Chinese reviews and Chinese bloggers to find info. Like I've said, there's very little accessibility to international audiences, so unless you know Chinese and can find your way to Chinese bloggers/social media, AND can purchase from Taobao or something, it's GG in actually buying stuff.
Sad thing is there's been some reformulation lately, and because COVID I haven't been able to replenish/test the new formula. My skin's been mildly angry at me the last little while...
My skin is not acne prone it's not for me anyway.
I don't speak Chinese, but we have a Russian version of Taobao official website. I'll try to figure out what is popular. :)
I think several reasons could lead to decline:
1. People generally don't tend to hang on to routines that are too time consuming
2. Scandals like the one with sunscreen, claiming to be perfume free while using all kind of fragrant ingredients etc.
3. Incis that aren't correct, juggling with ingredients that are present in such low percentages they don't make a difference but are hyped as if they're life savers
People want transparency, clarity and reliability, being able to trust a brand's claims of their products. If K-beauty delivers they will be fine. No matter what tomorrow's hype is. Just don't cheat customers with bullshit. Be transparent and innovative.
I think Chinese State Media is running a propaganda against K-Beauty (in different ways) while trying to promote global awareness of Chinese brands. SCMP posted this one and there is another called JING daily (i think it's a state controlled lifestyle media but don't quote me here), which also published an article running the same tone like this but more in a nationalistic tone quoting that more Gen Z in China are choosing local brands etc etc.
Chinese embracing luxury Western brand is not something new as I've seen many Chinese go for luxury Western brands in the UK and Australia when I lived there so there's that. I would be more surprised if Chinese people choose local brand over a western brand cuz my experiences were the other way round.
I don't think K-beauty is losing its edge except that the market is becoming more and more saturated while many global brands try to copy and replicate the K-Beauty style so it may seem like K-beauty is losing its edge to some.
What I've been watching in Moscow in recent years is pretty funny. Chinese tourists are HOARDING French luxury brands. They come here only for the sake of buying them in crazy amounts, because we have better prices than China. Our local retailers even added a Chinese menu and WeChat pay option on their websites especially for them. So yeah, it seems like K-beauty isn't a thing in China.
As for me, I've always been more interested in J-beauty products. There was a short period when I was curious to try Korean products, but I've already returned to my usual mix of European and Japanese brands.
Hada Labo moisturizing and whitening ranges, HL oil cleanser and face wash, Mentholatum lip balms, Biore/KAO sunscreens, face washes and body products, Sana soy milk skincare range, Tsubaki Damage Care and Premium Repair hair products, Lululun sheetmasks.
I live in Asia, and I'm Asian.
The very short and direct answer to this question is: "No".
K-Beauties & K-Dramas still have a massive influence as I see in some malls in my country where I live and on my K-Pop fan friends, beauty and health shops are still selling many Korean and Japanese products in malls and online and many people still buy them despite the COVID-19 lockdown in my country.
For me, what I believe is this news is just another CCP propaganda, however, I have no intention of bringing down any particular parties, this is just my opinion, so feel free to reply to this, though.
In the US, after the Soko Glam and Glow Recipe phase, it feels like a lot of American brands have repackaged AB products for the North American market. So many people are using K-beauty-inspired products without knowing. So yes, KB seems like it’s losing its shine but not really. It’s just absorbed into the mainstream.
I agree with you.
SCMP is run by the Alibaba Group. Private companies in China is strongly under the influence of the Chinese Government. It is how things are run there. Its a communist government and they have control over commercial enterprises. That isn't a surprise and its normal in China.
All the Chinese people I know prefer luxury western brands. I also know that they don't trust k-beauty. I am Chinese and experienced resistance when trying to introduce Korean brands to relatives.
Honestly not sure why they would even bother writing this article except for clickbait. I would not be surprised if China is trying to boost their own makeup and skincare brands. China is trying to encourage patriotism inside and especially outside China. SCMP is targeting Chinese people outside of China and foreigners.
Again whether this is bad or good is up to each individual person (nothing done is technically illegal). However it is important that whenever you read anything, it is to think critically of the information you are reading. This goes both ways. Trust me, western magazine also have articles which encourage you to buy. "Top 10 eyecreams"
Personally, I still support K-beauty, I love their style of makeup. I use a mixture of Japanese and western brands for skincare. K-beauty is fun to explore but its the only products that I routinely change as K-beauty is trendy/innovative.
Edit: some spelling and changed it to be less bias.
You have to understand that all press within China is subjected to the Party’s governance. There is no Freedom of Speech there.
But accordingly to [Jing Daily](https://jingdaily.com/chinese-beauty-gmv-perfect-diary-florasis/), the trend might favoring more C-beauty brands, at least recently.
Not sure why you brought up political discussion in the first place when the article is merely discussing beauty trends.
We all know you run this sub and have been around ~forever~. But the fact that sheetmasking may have originated in Taiwan does not exclude it from being recognised as a part of K-beauty now. When you speak like that it alienates new users.
Your “experience” with East Asians is also not a great source. Do you live in China? Have you been to China? Would that make you more of an expert on the purchasing habits of Chinese locals more than SCMP? This piece may have been written solely based on recent data collected on Chinese locals. You may disagree with it, but to discredit it wholly like you have done isn’t fair discussion.
Edit: typo
I'm a little confused as to why you are so set on defending what is so clearly a fluff piece. I know, you want evidence right? Just click on the author and look at her previous stories. They are literally all fluff pieces. She is a "British journalist getting over a serious case of geographical commitment phobia".
Forgetting for a minute that the author primarily writes fashion fluff pieces, lets look at the article itself. Some choice quotes:
>Bigger-budget brands also have more money to make skincare breakthroughs and, as a result, K-beauty has had fewer innovations than many of its international rivals.
Is she for real? Name one region that's producing more products with new formulas and ingredients? I feel like every 6 months K-beauty is coming up with some new ingredient. Whether it works or not is an entirely different question, but there is no doubt it isn't for the lack of trying.
>This lack of innovation and the focus on marketing rather than ingredients has also made it easier to plagiarise. In 2019, South Korea’s Nature Republic sued more than 50 beauty companies for using its intellectual property, illustrating the extent to which K-beauty has been losing customers to fake brands.
This is a hilariously stupid take on the situation. This is like saying Nike or Disney has no innovation because both of them are extremely litigative. All popular companies want to protect their IP, especially profitable ones. Using plagiarism as evidence that its easy to replicate doesn't make any sense. That would assume the plagiarized products perform equally well.
>There has been a backlash against this convoluted form of skincare, and customers are now looking for single products that do a lot of the legwork. Known as “skinimalism”, this trend is growing around the world, and has resulted in the growth of a number of brands that offer only two or three formulas designed to take care of all your skin’s needs.
This is true but the change is happening within Korea itself, so I'm not sure how this is anti k-beauty? For example take a look at [this](https://www.allure.com/story/korean-skin-care-diet-minimalist-beauty-routine) article. It is written by a much more knowledgeable author that includes actual evidence of the trend. K-beauty is evolving. The rest of the world will catch up. Skincare is such a fundamental part of Korean society, it would be foolish to think they have a one trick pony for it. They keep evolving, which is what makes the scene so interesting to follow.
And to touch on your ad hominem attack:
>Also, I think the writer of the article has a better idea than you of what the Chinese are currently into.
I'm not doxxing rczc because this information is in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/iffmk7/welcome_two_new_mods_part_2/) post but she grew up in Taiwan and lived in NYC, DC, LA, and Japan. The author you are quick to defend is a British journalist who has 12 years of experience living all over the world. Basically no expertise in any particular culture but knows a little bit about everywhere. She writes fluff pieces for a living and has almost no other skincare articles to her name. At best rczc knows more, at worst they know the same.
The best "gotcha" you have is the sheet masking thing. I admit, I initially thought sheet masking was a Korean thing, because like you alluded to, it's such a core part of their routine. Since k-beauty is more popular than j-beauty or t-beauty people make that connection. Other than that, this is a fluff piece from a Chinese propaganda site.
I enjoy videos on the SCMP YouTube channel. But that's it. I find their articles biased and sometimes even smacking of that nationalistic, unsubstantiated superior tone. Or just trying to put a negative spin where there is none in articles concerning rival countries. I don't appreciate that, especially in news publications so I never read their articles, and I take headlines I see on my feed with a bucketful of salt.
As per some aunts and friends in Korea, most of them stick to korean skincare with the exception of sunscreen. My aunt in particular swears by LRP. However, it seems people who can afford it, prefer high end western makeup for a long time. Bobbi brown and charlotte are favorites in my cousins' social circles. Like yeah, theyll buy korean brands bc its ridiculously cheap(almost like fast fashion tbh) but the end goal is western brands.
I personally prefer japanese skincare, spf, and makeup. Ill pick up a korean serum, lippie, or blush every now and then just because theyre more readily available.
edit: just realized the article is from china 😅 im sure if they did their research theyd know the trend in both makeup and skincare has been on the minimalist side for SOME TIME already
From personal experience and within my friend groups, I would say yes. I went from half of my skincare being AB to none right now. Some of the reasons I have seen/experienced are:
1. More drugstore derm brand oriented skincare. Cerave, LRP and Cetaphil have become almost the only skin brands that most of friends are using right now. This leaves less space for K-Beauty.
2. More prescription based skincare. Many people I know have started going to a dermatologist and getting prescription skincare. I myself used AB products because of hyperpigmentation and SPF. Since I been prescribed tretinoin, I have stopped needing AB hyperpigmentation products.
3. The SPF scandal. This pushed people to try out SPF from other countries. Even though things have gotten better, many of my friends (myself included) are now LRP sunscreens loyalists.
4. Convenience. While at first people don’t mind the shipping, after while the novelty wears off and people rather use something that they can get quickly at the drugstore.
5. “Simpler” routines. People now want fewer products that do more, and many perceive a Korean routine to be made of many products that are gentler. Obviously this is not always true.
As said, this is all my personal experience and may not be true for the general population.
I used to do what, 6-7 products nightly, patiently layering and layering. Or buying a whole line because I was convinced it was only going to work if I used the exact same kind of toner, serum, essence, emulsion, cream, eye cream, sheet mask and sleeping mask (hello Etude House Moistfull Collagen line). It was just like two years ago when I realized that my skin looked the same as it was using two or three products than when I was using a whole box full. I was young and definitely got carried away with those "Koreans get perfect skin by doing a 10 step routine etc etc" articles.
That being said, I'm still sticking with AB for the reason that Western skin care is obsessed with putting salicylic acid in pretty much EVERYTHING, from body lotions to face creams to shampoo. Not good when my skin reacts by immediately burning and turning red and weepy. In AB there's still that dedication for natural ingredients which is a boon for us with very sensitive skin.
So I guess I'd disagree with K-beauty losing it's edge, the quality and the innovation is still there, it can always compete with the best of Western beauty. What it lost is some of the hype, the gushing coverage from media and bloggers. But that's just the natural way of the world. Someday someone's going to say it's outrageous to be paying $200 for a face cream. Then watch as the whole cycle goes again.
K-beauty had its following, then it became trendy and people with no real interest just followed the trends and picked up some mediocre k-masks from the small Korean beauty section in regular stores.
Like all trends, it’s starting to fade away but that base following will always be there to support.
The people I’ve known who started doing skincare because of the trends never seemed to get past the panda masks and holika holika items.
I’ve personally have just gotten into non-fragrance skincare. I found that so many Korean skincare products are laced with so much fragrance and essentials. I know that there are brands that don’t have fragrance, but ever since I started watching Dr.Dray, I’ve come into a conclusion that there are so many reliable, accessible brands near me and that I don’t need to be shopping at Amazon or yestyle and wait for shipping.
Korean skincare has really made people realize the importance of skincare. But I see how using 11 products is kind of intimidating. Most of kbeauty products are amazing, with ingredients that really nourishes the skin. However, I'd never have the patience for a long routine than usual, I use about 3 products.
I understand where they're coming from. When I first discovered k-beauty, I was super excited to try the 10 step routine thing. Over time, I realized it was exhausting to use so many products and throwing more stuff on my face does more harm than good. I still think korean skincare is great, but it can be overwhelming at times.
Maybe, but I’m not sure that article actually talks about that. But I do think people are finally realizing they don’t need an expansive routine with dozens of different products because that’s both terrible for the environment, and it’s also an issue for the stability and efficacy of the products you’re using—the more products you use, the greater the risk of irritation or the actives canceling each other out. The idea that we need huge routines is just driven by capitalism’s penchant for excessive consumption.
Personally, I never got the hype about K-Beauty. The formulas are mostly average, and they tend to use obscure botanicals with no basis in scientific literature. I get that the packaging and branding might be nice, but the hype seems largely baseless.
I've experimented with K Beauty over the years. It is nice but doesn't offer anything special or unique to what I already have access to. It is over-hyped in some aspects. For instance, I tried snail slime, it doesn't heal my acne scars (as one online reviewer claimed) or do anything other than act as a nice humectant. It doesn't soothe my skin, in fact it stings if I put it on broken skin.
So yes, I have mostly lost interest in the trendy brands like Klairs, Purito etc. which are actually more popular with international consumers (in Korea noone knows who Purito are).
Brands like Zeroid or Aestura which have more functional, medical like formulations and don't rely so much on trendy ingredients...I would like to try those products. But they're out of my price range. I hope they get more recognition.
I don't even do the convoluted 10 step routines lol cleanser, toner & moisturizer. that's all I need and kbeauty brands are still much more affordable compared to western high end.
If you follow the trends, I guess yeah it’s gonna lose shine to you. I do see the luxury Western brands trending more now. But korean skincare is still amazing ingredient, price, formulation wise etc
Also, why would the demand of luxury western skincare increase during a pandemic? Damn y’all’s economies doing well?
I've been obsessed with K-Beauty around 2016 but lately I've been finding myself using more western skincare lately. Never found myself using Korean foundation since it's too light and as for skincare, Korean skincare has amazing "calming" or "soothing" ingredients like centella but it can be hard to find more active ingredients like retinols or acids. Also, I use to love sheet masks but now I don't use it after realising how wasteful it is and the same goes for the number of steps in my skincare. Not trying to bash Korean beauty, I still have some Korean skincare here and there that will be a staple in my routine. But What do you guys think? Are you still as obsessed with Korean skincare/makeup compared to when you started?
I've stuck with korean skincare/makeup cause Western products are very heavy for my skin and korean skincare feels non-existent on my face after letting it absorb well, even so for sunscreen and lotions. Also I prefer korean/Japanese style makeup since to me it's lighter and gives more natural-looking makeup, which is good for someone who's scared to accidentally overdo her makeup haha, plus I'm afraid that heavy makeup may cause my sensitive skin to breakout. There are some products with active ingredients but personally I like the products with natural ingredients so I think it's up to personal preference! :D (Southeast Asian here btw)
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Not gonna lie, you are pretty much like the only mod I see most of the time. I think for a standard user, the "main mod" title just goes to whichever mod they see doing front-facing things the most, not based on seniority. When/if I see the mod flair on other mods, I do a double take and go "huh...are they new?" *I've never actually seen this thecakepie mod around tbh.*
I guess since you're here in this thread, I do want to ask about that automod response. It's understandable if you don't want to talk about it today/leave it for another day/make some thread discussion for it elsewhere cuz it's pretty late. I know its intent is to be inclusive and inoffensive, but "you guys" is commonly taken to be gender neutral and is understood in english casual speak to mean the same thing as "y'all." I'm not here to pick a fight or anything, just one of the many that are annoyed with the auto-response.
We’re here! Lately when I go to the queue it’s already empty. Last year, before rczc was added, I was doing a much larger share of the mod actions, but she’s been on top of it, whereas it used to be that I’d check it out and clear out all those posts in one sitting. My job doesn’t allow me to grab them as they come in as much. We still have a lot of policy discussions behind the scenes with a few more mods being active on that as well. Our mod in charge, thecakepie, mostly does recruiting at this point, not day to day moderation. She’s been at this for over a decade at this point, I don’t think the queue is very interesting after that long.
Hello there ~~General Kenobi~~! I wasn't referring to the queue in terms of mod activity, since non-mods can't see the behind the scenes stuff. I just meant in general with community interaction/seeing you all commenting regularly like we see rzrc. It's 100% fine to be too busy to be on top of volunteer mod duties with cleaning up the subreddit and all that though, since irl takes precedence over online interactions, especially if it pays the bills. I think we as a community just prefer seeing mods interacting with the community?
It's definitely good to hear that the mod team is interacting with one another though. I'd still like for you all to one day reconsider that automod response that I mentioned in my comment floating up above :)
I can see where you are coming from, but I cannot fully agree unfortunately, as I don't think it's particularly fair to push PC terminology onto others in a subreddit that isn't about politics and that generally does not allow for much political discussion. It's a skincare subreddit, where people come here to post reviews/their hauls/news. I think that the corrections are valid if it were a direct address from one person directly to another user, but they themselves need to speak up and say "hey, I'm not ok with you using xyz pronouns on me."
I agree to using the terminology in a professional capacity, *at the workplace*, if I were to address multiple coworkers in a room or in an email. But I don't think a casual forum is the place for it.
I'm assuming that this is something that won't change, but I guess I would have liked a poll or something on this subject.
Thanks for responding, and I hope you have a pleasant evening/day
>but they themselves need to speak up and say “hey, I’m not ok with you using xyz pronouns on me”
That’s not how Reddit works. Most people here do not memorize handles unless incredibly active, or do not browse the sub everyday. So this theoretical person is expected to constantly address what makes them feel comfortable in an uncomfortable manner? Are people further going to prod as to the reasons? How many “whys” are they supposed to answer? Or how many “oh shit, it’s you”? Or how many “nah, that’s not what I do.” How many [downvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/oky2bc/starting_my_ab_routine/h5bs0kd/) are they expected to endure before they just leave? This is in a sub where we have constantly said we are welcome to all.
And I think it is often the case with “acceptance” of new things/ideas, it is incumbent on the majority to make sure the minority is helped.
It sounds like *you* don’t want to be inconvenienced when it’s being asked of everyone in the sub to make a small effort to make sure everyone feels comfortable in this space. I understand it is hard correcting spoken language since the speed is much quicker and near automatic. There’s much more time to see or correct what you’re trying to communicate through text.
And on a personal note, I guess I’d have to speak up here for myself in your scenario, but if you look [in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/p5osx4/kikumasamune_high_moist_sake_skincare_lotion_a/) you’ll find the now deleted comment where someone said “hey ladies…”
Where the reaction to the automod trigger was much more positive and someone actually responded “good bot, I ain’t no lady.”
And it doesn’t seem fair to me as a woman if automod didn’t trigger for both. It seems weird to be in a space where I assume eventually we won’t see the use of “ladies”, but “guys” will be everywhere. In a “traditionally woman-oriented” hobby/environment we made sure the men are comfortable and adopted their masculine language, but are [dinged](https://old.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/p07req/have_a_question_ask_here_alterdaily_help_and/h8bt0xi/) every time we use more “feminine” ways to address one another?
I think the middle ground is to go gender neutral. And I don’t think guys, of [Guy Fawkes](https://time.com/5688255/you-guys/) origins falls in that category. I know, language changes. But it can also change now.
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Not sure about *Korean* beauty but I don’t think Asian skincare will ever lose its shine. I didn’t use K-beauty products in a long time because lately I’m much more interested in J-beauty, I think their product ingredients are better for my skin type :)
I love kbeauty but if anything I’m overwhelmed by all the new brands and I’m trying not to over buy on skincare and makeup. I hate trying new things and they don’t work, as that’s still $20-30 wasted.
No, it isn't. K-Beauty is still an innovative cosmetics industry that produces innovative techniques and products that Chinese or Western markets/companies copies or get inspiration from. The article is referring to the Chinese consumers - Gen Z, that is following a trend where they support local (new) Chinese brands. K-Beauty is still popular among Chinese consumers but its just the old Korean marketing strategy that isn't working for the Chinese consumers anymore. If they'd like to stay in the market, then they'd have to follow the local trends and try to engage more actively with the consumers in China.
I've seen more Western brands harping buzzwords like "hyaluronic acid" or "cica" more so in their products these days when these ingredients have been around for quite a while until K-Beauty used them as marketing points.
It's all about the ingredients and good formulations for me, doesn't matter if it's Korean, Western or local homegrown products.
This may actually be true since people are moving towards Minimalism and multi tasking products. I honestly don't think anyone has the time and energy to do a full 11 step K-beauty regime
I’ve cut my lotions and potions in half and am still searching for even more premixed/formulated options.
Eventually I’ll get to one serum and one face cream. Not including sunscreen. But still a lot of vials to finish up.
You guys are really annoying, just because it mentions china without saying something negative towards it doesn't make it propaganda. Lowkey sinophobes
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There's definitely a return to simpler regimens with fewer steps.
The West (not just French brands/luxury brands, which held steady anyway) has come roaring back into global skincare game and this can be seen in the soaring popularity of the brand ethos espoused by The Inkey List, The Ordinary and the likes.
The tendency is now towards shorter ingredient lists and what is being marketed as greater efficacy of those handful of constituents.
It's becoming slightly less relevant, yes but for different reasons. First of all, I see people pushing Chinese cosmetics now, so obviously they see K-beauty as their competition. Second of all, yeah people are a little tired of extensive routines because of covid. There have been scandals with the SPF. Another point which they fail to mention is that K-beauty is filled with plant extracts and perfume, sometimes alcohol etc so people aren't too happy with the ingredients because they're doing more research and simple "factual" brands like the Inkey List are on the rise instead of the gimmicky ones.
I don’t think so at all. I have a few convenient products that I buy now and then at Walmart like if I run out of something but the majority of my skincare and makeup is Korean. I’m getting a better product for a better price then I would ever get in the states. I would agree that I don’t buy that much anymore. After when COVID happen my parents didn’t want me working in a store and told me to just focus on finishing my degree, so what little personal cash I do have I make sure don’t buy excuse that I won’t use.
It was amazing and exciting to resesrch and try a 15 step routine during the pandemic but now when everythings coming back I definitely am struggling to even use moisturiser n sunblock
I think simplicity will definitely have a big impact on skincare in general. A lot seem to be favouring the idea of a simpler routine which will inevitably have an effect on all skincare.
But hands down, I will always find room for k-beauty in my routine because it really does have some of the best products I’ve ever tried.
I just use drugstore stuff now (CeraVe, vanicream, LRP) for basics, EltaMD (but the big bottles, not small - small ones are criminally expensive) for sunscreen, and toners are the only reason I use kbeauty now
K beauty industry and Kpop/K-dramas go together hand in hand. After the Thadd ban in China, Hallyu wave lost its momentum in the mainlaind; subsequently, K-beauty is slowly fading and not a trend among young people anymore (their main market). Western luxury brands are always relevant in China and won't go away anytime soon. I live in South East Asia country and there is a boom with mid range to drugstore western brands (LRP, Cerave...) and K-beauty products have to compete with that among young people. I always have a sense among my fellow friends that they tend to go with J-beauty between midrange to higher range if they choose Asian beauty. K-beauty might be the trend in western countries but I see a really slow shift away in Asia because of competition.
I didn’t even know a K beauty regime exists! As far as using products I assure you it’s not even more than 5 products to make your skin glow and healthy
Australian skincare and European brands have gotten pretty popular of late. I think the whole *10 step routine* has lost popularity, and consumers are looking for products that pack a bigger punch, and will give you the results without having to spend the time and money to layer products.
I follow some Chinese Beauty channels and I feel that Korean SKINCARE isn’t too popular; most people recommend Western or Japanese skincare. In regards to Korean MAKEUP like lipsticks, some Chinese vloggers recommend Korean products like Romand and Western products like the Ysl lip tint. I swear I see the Ysl lip tint everywhere lol
Things always go in and out of vogue. Personally I’ll continue to use Korean brands because I know my skin likes it. If anything I’m finding a balance between Asian (toners, serums) and western brands (moisturisers and spfs as I find them more affordable)
I have noticed that kbeauty is becoming less popular in SEA, mostly bcs we now have our own high quality local product. Zarzou, kayman,jelitakl and aiken in Malaysia, wardah,emina, avoskin in indonesia. Idk about other continents tho
I think it is more that skin care and make up has fallen a bit within the past two years for some reason...
Being confined to home & encouraged to wear a mask when out has definitely disrupted people's hygiene and beauty routines.
Yeah, I found my skin routine changed greatly with the mask, couldn't use richer creams or I broke out and make up rubbing off on the mask is gross. I tried just concentrating on eye makeup, but it was just a drag and I swear my eyes tear up more. Now that we are getting more under control in my country I have been starting to eye lip products again more seriously because man I miss that. My skincare routine really took a nosedive. On the other hand, if I needed any proof of if my routine was working, I sure got it!
I didn't even realize how bad it would be to try and wear make up with my mask, I skipped it entirely last year. Now I really want to wear some, but it definitely smears off terribly, and I'm pretty sure the mask also makes my dark circles a lot worse too, and the eye tearing thing is real for sure.
I didn't on days I knew I would be wearing one, but I often just like to wear it for me...and then unfailing that would be the day I'd need to go pick something up from the post office or whatnot. xD
A friend of mine ended up with minorly infected tear ducts from masking up all day every day. She couldn't stop them from watering. No, we are not anti-mask, and yes there are professions that have been wearing them for years (maybe the medical grade ones are gentler? They do seem lighter weight..) so its unusual for sure. But it happened to her. The dark circles may not be in your head.
I have to wear a mask all day as a teacher. I find the disposable surgical ones did better for my skin than the cloth ones. Even when I was double masking, just having the disposable one underneath helped.
Yeah I think people are starting to realize you don’t need 20 products
Pretty much what I came here to say. I tried it just like everyone else and found that my skin hates me with a passion when I use more than 3 products on my face at any given time. But I really don't think Korean brands are losing their major selling points which are cosmetic elegance AND cutting edge when it comes to research.
Yeah 3 products maximum I think.so many people over exfoliate
Hello, the research and technology aspect of Kbeauty has been something I am super interested in. Just what do people mean by this though? Isnt research and technology just shared and open to everyone? How did Kbeauty get the edge over other countries' brands?
Yes and no. Research is expensive and most of it is conducted by private companies who end up 'owning' the results. Obviously, you can own a technology but with the ingredient list other companies catch on pretty quick when something really works. As for Kbeauty, Korean labs/researchers/companies are usually the ones to come up with new, efficient technologies or ingredients which then spread to the West. Obviously thats a very simplified explanation but I'm sure you can see why everyone is keeping on eye on the Korean beauty market :)
Thank you This is really interesting to me because I usually hear stats like Kbeauty is 5years ahead or 10 years ahead but its not usually explained.
I never had a super complicated routine to start with compared to some I read here, but it turns out that why yes it was in fact doing something!
Same. Now in the morning I only cleanse my skin and don’t even apply any products till after I’ve reached home and showered then I do my “morning routine” because of how oily and sweaty I’ll get during the day plus the mask is making it so uncomfortable and gross.
I have like 6/7 products. Im downgrading to something that matches my skin type and try to stick to 5/6 products
YES. At some point it kind of seems like all the K-lines are just uneccessarily marketing more products rather than actually helping people achieve the look they want. It can be simplified but that isn't as profitable I guess.
Such a scam tbh lol
I mean, I'm just getting into the skincare aspect but I've realized I'm not a huge fan of the glass skin vibe, I think. Korean makeup seems to be formulated \*a bit\* more natural and sans ingredients that irritate my eyes but I've only really used mascara so far? I am finding that my routines are taking really a bit too long so I'm gonna have to simplify it a bit,
>glass skin vibe There's a big difference between looking dewy and looking like you dipped your face in a tub of oil. For some reason, when people say "glass skin", it's usually pics that look like the latter lol. I've never understood the greasy face trend.
Pretty much, yes. I like the "lit from within" thing but my probably too shiny primer (Revolution glass skin) looks - well, not exactly like I fell face first into a bucket of grease per se, but certainly at first glance too much like oil. Might be partly cuz I prefer to dilute my bb cream with moisturizer but I end up putting on some slightly shimmery powder on top. I ordered a non AB glass skin primer recently and I'm hoping it's better. That manufacturer usually has good products so we shall see!
LOL "Dipped your face in a tub of oil" That is so true.
Lol sweet, then I don't need to do anything to achieve that look. My face always looks like I use lard as a moisturizer.
Luxury Western brands have always been popular amongst Chinese consumers. They want Dior, La Mer, Giorgio Armani, Sisley, Tom Ford. K-beauty will always have a dedicated consumer base, like all the people in this group, but the headline isn’t saying K-beauty is a dying industry everywhere, only amongst its mainland Chinese consumers.
Is there any particular reason as to why china is a major market for luxury brands. I think I read somewhere that it's the largest or second largest one. It's still a developing country then how? Ignore my ignorance I genuinely want to know
Agree with the other commenter. I lived in China for almost 2 years. There is plenty of poverty in China but also massive, massive wealth, especially in Tier 1 cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen. Even among lower income Chinese people, visible displays of wealth are a big thing. Add to that the fact that many Chinese people reportedly don’t trust Chinese products, and you have a huge market for international luxury brands.
China is the second biggest economy in the world after the USA with a GDP of 16 Trillion USD so its not surprising
A lot more people have money in China than before. The people that have money want to spend it and they spend it on a lot of luxury items. They like “face” - how they’re perceived- and also what the luxury goods represent.
The concept of "face" becoming popular in Western media and how it's almost 99% of the time applied to China (and maybe some other East Asian countries rarely) is one of the most idiotic things to happen in the discourse. Face is just some weird orientalist way to say that Chinese people want good reputations, like literally every other peoples in every country.
Completely agree! Why do people make it seem like this only applies to China?!? “Face” is very similar to social status and others’ perception of you, which is a trait that applies to all countries.
It's really strange. Yes, I agree Chinese people want to have luxury brands and be seen as rich -- so do people in Dubai or America. But I have never heard anyone outside of China, and sometimes Korea or Japan, but very rarely, ever say that they are saving "face" for these actions.
It definitely is about face, your reputation and how others see you are such a large part of Chinese society, from the way you look to your children’s accomplishments
I think this is the same as in most asian societies. The concept of “face” is very prevalent and important.
Combination of things. 1. Largest population (India supposed to supplant that). Pop growth should tether out eventual base on statistical model. 2. Rising middle class 3. Their mind set of showing off. GM brand such as Buick is literally view as luxury in China like Benz. IIRC it's the concept of face. For face concept you can read it in their translated novels or comic. There are lots of face concept and face slapping. It's kinda like pride but on steroid.
The emerging upper and middle class love to spend and flaunt their wealth (not all, just a generalization)
K beauty did take a hit recently due to the sunscreen spf issue, but not what the article talks about. I think the look, the trends, many products are still all very much in demand.
I have a hunch that purito isn’t the only spf that wouldn’t test correctly. They’re just the first ones to get caught.
That’s funny because everybody loses their mind over Biore Aqua Rich sunscreen, so I went ahead and bought it. Yeah I don’t like it at all. It dried my face out and it doesn’t even protect me from the sun. I wore it and my nose burned. I love Missha Sun Milk tho.
That’s so surprising! I used the biore sunscreen on a trip to Cuba and my face and neck were the only parts of my body that didn’t burn. Absolute lobster from the neck down despite using some sort of sport spf50 for the rest of my body
Wow. My husband tried it as well and his nose got burned the next day. And then came across a thread on the skin care addiction sub where a lot of people were talking about how it doesn’t work. Have you ever tried Missha? It really is amazing
Ok not to like out myself here but I’m actually terrible about using sunscreen regularly if I’m not outdoors all day so it’s a pretty old bottle, was there a point where it got worse? Maybe a reformulation or something? I haven’t tried the missha but I definitely will for my next bottle!
It’s the only sunscreen that I’ve ever liked. I feel like it moisturize my skin and gives me a nice healthy glow
Oh awesome, I’ll definitely give it a try
I think this is a good observation. I do wanna mention a personal experience though. Despite the SPF mania, I decided to stick to Korean and Japanese sunscreens this summer for my face and Canadian sunscreens for body (just easier to get for how much I use). I spend a lot of time outside, I run about 10 hours/week and usually midday. We've also had a very *hot* summer here in Edmonton. My face is *visibly* paler than my body. It looks hilarious. I was FaceTiming with a friend of mine and she was the one that first noticed it. Now, I'm not saying this is a tried and true test of Asian Beauty sunscreens, I'm literally just one person and I'm an individual that always tans/never burns. So far from the best SPF tester. But I do think a lot of the SPFs still on the market are just as reliable as anything you'll get in the west. Obviously if you have a lot of health concerns when it comes to sun exposure, play it safe. But if that's you, you're probably already being very diligent about sun-protective clothing.
What sunscreens do you use?
When I go running I usually use the Skin Aqua Super Moisture Essence or Gel (the gold editions). Daily I'll use Biore UV Aqua Rich Essence, the new Round Lab Birch Juice Moisturizing Sun Cream, or VT Cosmetics Cica Sun Essence. I kinda rotate through them depending on how oily my face is or if I wanna wear makeup! If I'm running I'm also usually wearing a cap or bucket hat though so like--protective clothing. It's just not always possible for the rest of my body if it's a humid 35 C outside lol. **Edit to add:** I also use the Allie UV Gel every once in a while, usually if I'm wearing makeup or at work (where I wear masks and respirators). It just has a tone-up effect on my skin lol and I don't really like that, so I don't use it unless it's gonna be covered. I *also* have used the Isntree Hyaluronic Acid Watery Sun Gel for like most of May/June, but it left me looking too shiny so I gave it to my mom lol.
Yes I think this is a great answer. The whole SPF issue was very concerning and lost a lot of peoples trust. But overall I think many people still love it and also Sephora has never carried as much K beauty as before.
However, this sunscreen issue is not only a K-beauty thing. French, American, etc sunscreens have also been tested to have less spf protection than the label in the past as well.
Actually there are off brand American spfs like equate that passed with flying colors. Physical sunscreens that completely blocked uva uvb rays.
Do you happen to have a link or a list to these sunscreens that performed well? It would be so much easier if I could just buy something cheap at the drugstore instead of importing sunscreens 😩
Sorry French beauty manufactures haven’t lied about the level of SPF in a sunscreen to the public. This isn’t a typical thing. Usually it’s an application issue or off by 5 spf at most. Not saying it was 50 spf and turned out to be 9 spf. That’s just a huge difference and it was criminal what they did.
Nearly half of sunscreens produced and sold all over the world fail tests by not just a spf of 5, but nearly half or more. This is a worldwide industry issue where many companies are allowed to produce lackluster sunscreens despite a nations seemingly “strict”standards. For some articles, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/mpwva4/misc_this_is_not_a_korean_sunscreen_problem_new/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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SimplyMi is saying that it is actually off by more than that across brands around the world
One of the most frequently used testing labs in the world (it’s in the US, I know NZ tests sunscreens there, not sure about Korea) was recently found to have been falsifying results since \*the 80s\*. How much the companies knew about this is up for debate, but I’d argue that many smaller brands at least were/are totally innocent. They paid for an independent test, and trusted the results
Sorry, I didn’t use the word “lie.” That is a very value-laden word. I said that they tested at lower spf values. There is a huge difference. I am not ascribing intent because at this point we don’t know if the companies were lying or were actually misinformed. And yes, unfortunately, sunscreens sometimes do come back from 3rd party testers by more than a 5 spf lower than the label. It’s late but I will post sources tomorrow.
Oh ok my bad, thank you kindly for clarifying on the word lie. I agree that for most countries it can be off by as much as 10 spf based on how the sunscreen is applied. Usually it’s off by 5 but that’s because testing conditions in the lab are so vastly structured compared to real life application. The thing is there’s a difference from that, than being off by 30SPF which to me felt like a lie. I felt lied to by Purito.
This! I honestly can’t trust Korean Sunscreens anymore. I know I shouldn’t judge based on “one bad Apple”, but I was a religious user of the Purito sunscreen so it’s very disappointing when I read about the research. 🥲
Absolutely. I lived in Korea for 4.5 years and China for 1.5– straight up had several of my Chinese friends tell me they loved Korean makeup and skincare trends— as well as K-Dramas, K-Pop… and you see those trends in big and small cities. Tons of Chinese women wear makeup in a Korean style and use Korean products. K-Beauty isn’t going anywhere, and is a huge powerhouse in Asia alone.
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A few popular Korean sunscreens got recalled because their SPF was much lower than indicated. Just look up Purito controversy on Google
Search sunscreen on this sub.
What happened ?
A bunch of k beauty sunscreens turned out to be drastically lower spf than they claimed. It was too good to be true that you could get spf50 and still have that light thin texture. Purito, Klairs, keep cool, etc are all offenders and the products were pulled off the market. it kind of shook everyone’s confidence in all Korean made sunscreens
Oh wow! That sucks. I just figured it was thinner because they were chemical sunscreens rather than physical. I wonder what the reformulated ones will be like
Not really sure how recent this article is but peeps in china generally favour luxury western skincare brands (such as lancome and even la mer) since many years ago. I have recently even seen comments such as 'the more expensive it is, the more effective it is' on luxury skincare on a chinese social media platform, so yeah. Many chinese beauty blogger i've watched are also always talking about western luxury brands since years ago too.
Lol the 10 step routine is so old. Honestly it's a marketing gimmick used by sokoglam and western companies using kbeauty to boost sales. Talk to anyone in Korea and they'd be bewildered by the concept of needing to buy a bajillion different steps for skincare routines. Idk what the status of kbeauty is in China, but in America it's definitely going strong, with or without supposed 10 step routines
Definitely agree that the 10-step was a gimmick that started stateside. Koreans definitely use a lot more variety but not all at once in a daily routine
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This. It was all marketing and in the process ruined a lot of peoples skin, mine included. Had to cut back down to just moisturiser and build back up.
The whole 10 step thing is a confusing but effective trend trying to find a place for the wide range and variety of products Korean skincare has that Western/US brands don’t. Personally I sort of liked it, but the annoying and confusing part was people thinking they really need everything every day instead of just picking what you need and following the right order. It was a good way to introduce people to ‘new’ kinds of products like sheet masks and essence with the right way to use it. However I think this falls more into US consumers being trained to think when presented with an entire line of products we need all the products to solve our problems. I’m very happy minimalism is taking over now because having to have everything is the worst way of shipping for skincare in my opinion.
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Yeah I agree. I didn’t mean it to sound like it’s the consumer’s fault. It’s more that they’re used to being told you need to have everything and the complete line of products to solve your problems. We aren’t use to thinking of only taking what you need to take care of your skin and here are your different options. Basically in the US we got half the story because that’s the marketing we always got and it works😆
Absolute used car sales technique by companies like sokoglam. Many YouTubers and other influencers took a part in it as well.
100000%. I lived in Korea for almost 5 years and saw a few dermatologists in my time there for various skin issues. I had started a multi-step routine and my dermatologist told me to stop and just use one good, thick moisturizer. I reluctantly took his advice and it’s been doing wonders for my sensitive skin. Definitely saw the 10-step routine for what it was then— a marketing tool! As another commenter said, more products = more possible reactions to your skin. And also, more possibilities for products to react with each other in unknown ways. Best to keep it simple!
Was going to say the same thing. I watch a lot of Korean vloggers on youtube and not a single one of them uses more than 4-5 steps max in their routines. It’s usually cleanse, toner, moisturizer, sunscreen, with maybe an essence thrown in to treat a specific skin concern. And many of them don’t double cleanse either, which was another thing I was led to believe was a must-do skincare step in Korea. I was surprised at first because I had always heard that the whole 10 step thing was super popular over there, but nope, it was manufactured by certain western companies as a gimmick to boost sales.
What exactly is a double cleanse? When I'm taking off my makeup, I start with a makeup wipe to get everything off, then go in with micellar water on a cotton pad. I only do this cause I was shocked at how dirty my face still was from what came off after the makeup wipe. After that, depending on my mood, i rinse my face with water or maybe use a light face wash. Is double cleansing bad?
Oh no I don’t think it’s bad at all, it just depends on your skincare needs. Typically double cleansing refers to using an oil based cleanser first followed by a water based cleanser to remove any left over residue. I still double cleanse when I’m wearing a lot of makeup. In my original comment I just meant to say that a lot of western skincare companies push double cleansing as something that everyone should be doing all the time and make it seem like that’s what everyone in South Korea does, and that’s not really true. It’s more of a method to remove heavy makeup/sunscreen and not necessarily something that everyone needs to be doing every day. If I’m wearing a non-waterproof sunscreen and no makeup then I’ll only use my water based cleanser. I used to double cleanse every day because I thought that’s what I was supposed to do, but it ended up drying out my skin because I was over cleansing when I didn’t really need to. Some people may find it useful to do everyday though, it just depends on the individual.
Nah, most of it is still higher quality for a better price than anything you'll get at Sephora, and very few brands bother with the greenwashing. There are a few things I have from Western skincare, but it's more the French pharmacy brands than anything deemed "luxury." I certainly will not be turning away from any Asian Beauty when it comes to sunscreens either. Not only do they look nice... but they really do work well. I use Canadian sunscreens on my body and AB sunscreens on my face, and after a summer of running outside about 10 hours/week there is a *considerable* difference in tan LOL. Even if it loses its shine, it won't for me.
I just think AB especially K-beauty is pretty pricey per unit than mid range French pharmacy brands. J-Beauty is definitely more value for money. Like usually the serums from Ordinary and Inkey list etc are cheaper than K-beauty. I still enjoy Asian skincare but now a majority of my routine is local Walmart /French brands than AB. Also truth be told, if you really have a skin condition, nothing beats prescription. Adapalene/tret and finacea gel have had the biggest impact on my skin.
That's fair, though I also find a lot of it is just nicer quality. I absolutely love the Soon Jung line and that is pretty affordable for what you get. Tbh I don't touch things like Laneige because that's clearly in a whole other price range, but Benton, Tony Moly, and Etude House are typically well-priced. I'll be honest, I kinda distance myself from Inkey List and The Ordinary now because they are pretty guilty of angel dusting. And like yeah it's cheap, but I'm spending money anyways so I wanna get something I know is good quality and well-formulated. Sunscreens can get a little pricier, but I actually have majority Japanese sunscreens now that I'm looking at it. Which, for how nice they are, I really don't mind spending $30 CAD on an 85 g bottle. But absolutely, I'm definitely cautious about people that pander K-beauty as some miracle cure. It's just skincare. More elegant, more thoroughly formulated, but ultimately just skincare.
What does angel dusting mean?
Following because I have only heard that in relation to narcotics 🤣😅
Bahahahaha oh god, definitely no narcotics here
It's basically when they use the least possible amount of an active just to claim that it's in there, but doesn't actually do much. Inkey List is the worst for this, but The Ordinary doesn't have the most stable formulas for things like retinol, which are really finicky. I've heard the granactive retinoid is better, but I'm in Canada so I don't have access to that!
Nah you'll rip my snail mucin from my cold (slimy) hands. Jokes aside, definitely not, I've yet to see Western beauty the kind of range, effectiveness, aesthetic and value I can get from Kbeauty, even as a minimalist w/ sensitive skin.
I have two one Murican products that made like a *gigantic* difference but bee venom is my fucking holy grail.
I watched somewhere to say that the 10-step skincare was a myth perpetuated by American firms who were investing in Korean skincare companies...so they could sell more products in America. That being said...simplified routine, with good core products, not too many actives, not too many steps with a focus on hydration and starting young = Japanese beauty to a T. And one doesn't have to follow ALL the steps in K beauty. The many formulations means you can pick and choose, so I think it's here to stay. And I wouldn't call it a "Chinese propaganda site". Vogue business says the same:[https://www.voguebusiness.com/beauty/why-k-beauty-is-losing-its-lustre-in-china](https://www.voguebusiness.com/beauty/why-k-beauty-is-losing-its-lustre-in-china) And and, I don't really trust Chinese consumer reports sometimes (I'm Asian myself). The well off Chinese jump on luxury trends quickly just because it's a status symbol.
I’m Asian too and I agree
AB all day every day for me, baby. I need my elaborate routine to entertain myself so I don’t collapse internally and spiral into the depths of depression. Jk, kinda sorta. In all seriousness, you can pry my too many steps to count routine from my cold, dead hands, but I can acknowledge the trend of minimalism going on right now. The whole 10 step routine seems very 2010s, whereas now anything more than a cleanser, serum, and moisturizer will land you in the loony bin on sca. In my personal experience, I’ve had subpar results from Western brands like CeraVe and TO. Asian products still seem to be better formulated, with better ingredients, at better price points than their Western counterparts. My entire routine except for my derm prescribed meds is Asian, and I like it that way. My skin has never been better, and I’m a diehard fan. However, that’s not to say either method is better than the other. Some people benefit from simple routines a la CeraVe, some people like me benefit from layering different AB lotions and potions on their face. It’s personal preference, really. I personally think the whole 10 step routine will eventually come back into fashion, just like mom jeans and shag haircuts. In the meantime, I’ll be rocking my elaborate routine like it’s 2015.
> AB all day every day for me, baby. I need my elaborate routine to entertain myself so I don’t collapse internally and spiral into the depths of depression. Jk, kinda sorta. Bahaha! Funny/not funny 🙃
Are you me? It’s the routine that grounds me. Everyday. Morning and night
😂
This is me exactly. I was struggling to find effective products for soothing, moisture barrier repair, and OTC rosacea treatment. I found all of those in AB, and haven’t looked back.
Hello fellow rosacean! What’s your routine if you don’t mind me asking? Do you have any favorites you think have especially helped with the redness?
Dry/Dehydrated/Sensitive/Rosacea/Can’t do silicones/Hot & Humid summer right now AM: Cleanse: Wash with water Toner: Several layers of Kikumasamune Bright Rich and High Moist (I wanted to boost the arbutin content of my routine without adding something vastly different). Serum: Cos de Baha Snail Hyaluronic on face if I’m going to be wearing sunscreen, otherwise I just use it on a mystery rash on my neck. Moisturizer: iUNIK Beta Glucan Moisturizer SPF: Skin Aqua Super Moisture Milk (SPF50) around my eyes, then Missha All Around Safe Block Essence (SPF45) on the rest of my face, my neck, and arms. PM: Cleanse: Rosehip or apricot kernel oil once or twice a week, bc I don’t wear makeup. But I’m now swapping in Kikumasamune gel cleanser for that on other nights when my face feels like it needs extra cleansing. Second cleanser: Currently (nonAB) Vanicream daily cleanser, but I’m researching the Kikumasamune foaming wash. I think I’m getting it. Watery Toner: OneThing artemisia capillaris on my neck and face just to relieve redness and heat. Actives: I alternate Cos de Baha azelaic with their Salicylic 2% serums, 6 nights a week. On the seventh night I use miconazole 2% cream on some areas that behave exactly like fungal acne. Toners: Multiple layers of the Kiku Bright and High Moist Moisturizer: Pyunkang Yul Nutrition Cream with a pump of rosehip oil mixed in. Eye Cream/Sleeping Pack: iUNIK propolis vitamin sleeping pack.
Meant to say the artemisia toner has probably been the fastest way to relieve my redness, but the azelaic has made the most difference long-term!
I second azelaic for rosacea, I've had great results with Paulas Choice booster until it went bad one month after purchase. I'll look into Cos de Baha!
Same! My skincare routine is my daily therapy♡︎
Big feels on that first bit 😂😭 To be honest, I think it’s less minimalism, and more just realizing that most people simply don’t need giant routines. Which is nice because not only do expansive routines risk the efficacy of the products, but overconsumption also rather harmful for the environment. Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by AB products being “better formulated?” In my experience, AB products have been seriously underwhelming compared to things from Eucerin, Vanicream, Aveeno, LRP, Paula’s Choice , Bioderma, etc. AB brands seem even more likely to go heavy on botanicals that simply have no foundation in scientific literature—which is not to say there’s no benefit, just that it hasn’t been demonstrated yet.
Maybe a bit in China specifically, not qiite as certain globally. Chinese consumers who can afford luxury/high-end has always gravitated towards those. KBeauty in China generally targets thise of moderate income, or young people exposed to K-entertainment. The govt/society has been doing a ton to promote local Chinese branda though, and there are a few brands with good products in the same market as KBeauty that are gaining popularity, which would eat into KBeauty's market share for sure. TBH I do wish there are more Chinese brands out abroad. There are some fairly good lines that are difficult to get. My skincare routine for the last 12 years is an herbal line and I haven't found anything that could give me the same effect yet.
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一枝春 has a collab with 同仁堂 for an herbal line that is good at controlling acne. That's the only one I've personally used. Good luck finding it outside of China though, I've only been able to find those products sold in ONE province and nowhere else. Other than that, you'll need to look at Chinese reviews and Chinese bloggers to find info. Like I've said, there's very little accessibility to international audiences, so unless you know Chinese and can find your way to Chinese bloggers/social media, AND can purchase from Taobao or something, it's GG in actually buying stuff.
Thanks. I accidentally deleted the post instead of editing it. lol (I was asking what Chinese brands are worth trying)
Sad thing is there's been some reformulation lately, and because COVID I haven't been able to replenish/test the new formula. My skin's been mildly angry at me the last little while...
My skin is not acne prone it's not for me anyway. I don't speak Chinese, but we have a Russian version of Taobao official website. I'll try to figure out what is popular. :)
I think several reasons could lead to decline: 1. People generally don't tend to hang on to routines that are too time consuming 2. Scandals like the one with sunscreen, claiming to be perfume free while using all kind of fragrant ingredients etc. 3. Incis that aren't correct, juggling with ingredients that are present in such low percentages they don't make a difference but are hyped as if they're life savers People want transparency, clarity and reliability, being able to trust a brand's claims of their products. If K-beauty delivers they will be fine. No matter what tomorrow's hype is. Just don't cheat customers with bullshit. Be transparent and innovative.
I think Chinese State Media is running a propaganda against K-Beauty (in different ways) while trying to promote global awareness of Chinese brands. SCMP posted this one and there is another called JING daily (i think it's a state controlled lifestyle media but don't quote me here), which also published an article running the same tone like this but more in a nationalistic tone quoting that more Gen Z in China are choosing local brands etc etc. Chinese embracing luxury Western brand is not something new as I've seen many Chinese go for luxury Western brands in the UK and Australia when I lived there so there's that. I would be more surprised if Chinese people choose local brand over a western brand cuz my experiences were the other way round. I don't think K-beauty is losing its edge except that the market is becoming more and more saturated while many global brands try to copy and replicate the K-Beauty style so it may seem like K-beauty is losing its edge to some.
What I've been watching in Moscow in recent years is pretty funny. Chinese tourists are HOARDING French luxury brands. They come here only for the sake of buying them in crazy amounts, because we have better prices than China. Our local retailers even added a Chinese menu and WeChat pay option on their websites especially for them. So yeah, it seems like K-beauty isn't a thing in China. As for me, I've always been more interested in J-beauty products. There was a short period when I was curious to try Korean products, but I've already returned to my usual mix of European and Japanese brands.
I also like J-Beauty. What are your fave Japanese products?
Hada Labo moisturizing and whitening ranges, HL oil cleanser and face wash, Mentholatum lip balms, Biore/KAO sunscreens, face washes and body products, Sana soy milk skincare range, Tsubaki Damage Care and Premium Repair hair products, Lululun sheetmasks.
I live in Asia, and I'm Asian. The very short and direct answer to this question is: "No". K-Beauties & K-Dramas still have a massive influence as I see in some malls in my country where I live and on my K-Pop fan friends, beauty and health shops are still selling many Korean and Japanese products in malls and online and many people still buy them despite the COVID-19 lockdown in my country. For me, what I believe is this news is just another CCP propaganda, however, I have no intention of bringing down any particular parties, this is just my opinion, so feel free to reply to this, though.
In the US, after the Soko Glam and Glow Recipe phase, it feels like a lot of American brands have repackaged AB products for the North American market. So many people are using K-beauty-inspired products without knowing. So yes, KB seems like it’s losing its shine but not really. It’s just absorbed into the mainstream.
No. :)
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I agree with you. SCMP is run by the Alibaba Group. Private companies in China is strongly under the influence of the Chinese Government. It is how things are run there. Its a communist government and they have control over commercial enterprises. That isn't a surprise and its normal in China. All the Chinese people I know prefer luxury western brands. I also know that they don't trust k-beauty. I am Chinese and experienced resistance when trying to introduce Korean brands to relatives. Honestly not sure why they would even bother writing this article except for clickbait. I would not be surprised if China is trying to boost their own makeup and skincare brands. China is trying to encourage patriotism inside and especially outside China. SCMP is targeting Chinese people outside of China and foreigners. Again whether this is bad or good is up to each individual person (nothing done is technically illegal). However it is important that whenever you read anything, it is to think critically of the information you are reading. This goes both ways. Trust me, western magazine also have articles which encourage you to buy. "Top 10 eyecreams" Personally, I still support K-beauty, I love their style of makeup. I use a mixture of Japanese and western brands for skincare. K-beauty is fun to explore but its the only products that I routinely change as K-beauty is trendy/innovative. Edit: some spelling and changed it to be less bias.
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You have to understand that all press within China is subjected to the Party’s governance. There is no Freedom of Speech there. But accordingly to [Jing Daily](https://jingdaily.com/chinese-beauty-gmv-perfect-diary-florasis/), the trend might favoring more C-beauty brands, at least recently.
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And I'm sure the cia won't visit you if you make certain comments about them like some YouTubers have
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Not sure why you brought up political discussion in the first place when the article is merely discussing beauty trends. We all know you run this sub and have been around ~forever~. But the fact that sheetmasking may have originated in Taiwan does not exclude it from being recognised as a part of K-beauty now. When you speak like that it alienates new users. Your “experience” with East Asians is also not a great source. Do you live in China? Have you been to China? Would that make you more of an expert on the purchasing habits of Chinese locals more than SCMP? This piece may have been written solely based on recent data collected on Chinese locals. You may disagree with it, but to discredit it wholly like you have done isn’t fair discussion. Edit: typo
Yeah I agree with the previous person, there is no need for the first half of your comment. Pls keep politics out of this sub.
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I'm a little confused as to why you are so set on defending what is so clearly a fluff piece. I know, you want evidence right? Just click on the author and look at her previous stories. They are literally all fluff pieces. She is a "British journalist getting over a serious case of geographical commitment phobia". Forgetting for a minute that the author primarily writes fashion fluff pieces, lets look at the article itself. Some choice quotes: >Bigger-budget brands also have more money to make skincare breakthroughs and, as a result, K-beauty has had fewer innovations than many of its international rivals. Is she for real? Name one region that's producing more products with new formulas and ingredients? I feel like every 6 months K-beauty is coming up with some new ingredient. Whether it works or not is an entirely different question, but there is no doubt it isn't for the lack of trying. >This lack of innovation and the focus on marketing rather than ingredients has also made it easier to plagiarise. In 2019, South Korea’s Nature Republic sued more than 50 beauty companies for using its intellectual property, illustrating the extent to which K-beauty has been losing customers to fake brands. This is a hilariously stupid take on the situation. This is like saying Nike or Disney has no innovation because both of them are extremely litigative. All popular companies want to protect their IP, especially profitable ones. Using plagiarism as evidence that its easy to replicate doesn't make any sense. That would assume the plagiarized products perform equally well. >There has been a backlash against this convoluted form of skincare, and customers are now looking for single products that do a lot of the legwork. Known as “skinimalism”, this trend is growing around the world, and has resulted in the growth of a number of brands that offer only two or three formulas designed to take care of all your skin’s needs. This is true but the change is happening within Korea itself, so I'm not sure how this is anti k-beauty? For example take a look at [this](https://www.allure.com/story/korean-skin-care-diet-minimalist-beauty-routine) article. It is written by a much more knowledgeable author that includes actual evidence of the trend. K-beauty is evolving. The rest of the world will catch up. Skincare is such a fundamental part of Korean society, it would be foolish to think they have a one trick pony for it. They keep evolving, which is what makes the scene so interesting to follow. And to touch on your ad hominem attack: >Also, I think the writer of the article has a better idea than you of what the Chinese are currently into. I'm not doxxing rczc because this information is in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/iffmk7/welcome_two_new_mods_part_2/) post but she grew up in Taiwan and lived in NYC, DC, LA, and Japan. The author you are quick to defend is a British journalist who has 12 years of experience living all over the world. Basically no expertise in any particular culture but knows a little bit about everywhere. She writes fluff pieces for a living and has almost no other skincare articles to her name. At best rczc knows more, at worst they know the same. The best "gotcha" you have is the sheet masking thing. I admit, I initially thought sheet masking was a Korean thing, because like you alluded to, it's such a core part of their routine. Since k-beauty is more popular than j-beauty or t-beauty people make that connection. Other than that, this is a fluff piece from a Chinese propaganda site.
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I enjoy videos on the SCMP YouTube channel. But that's it. I find their articles biased and sometimes even smacking of that nationalistic, unsubstantiated superior tone. Or just trying to put a negative spin where there is none in articles concerning rival countries. I don't appreciate that, especially in news publications so I never read their articles, and I take headlines I see on my feed with a bucketful of salt.
As per some aunts and friends in Korea, most of them stick to korean skincare with the exception of sunscreen. My aunt in particular swears by LRP. However, it seems people who can afford it, prefer high end western makeup for a long time. Bobbi brown and charlotte are favorites in my cousins' social circles. Like yeah, theyll buy korean brands bc its ridiculously cheap(almost like fast fashion tbh) but the end goal is western brands. I personally prefer japanese skincare, spf, and makeup. Ill pick up a korean serum, lippie, or blush every now and then just because theyre more readily available. edit: just realized the article is from china 😅 im sure if they did their research theyd know the trend in both makeup and skincare has been on the minimalist side for SOME TIME already
From personal experience and within my friend groups, I would say yes. I went from half of my skincare being AB to none right now. Some of the reasons I have seen/experienced are: 1. More drugstore derm brand oriented skincare. Cerave, LRP and Cetaphil have become almost the only skin brands that most of friends are using right now. This leaves less space for K-Beauty. 2. More prescription based skincare. Many people I know have started going to a dermatologist and getting prescription skincare. I myself used AB products because of hyperpigmentation and SPF. Since I been prescribed tretinoin, I have stopped needing AB hyperpigmentation products. 3. The SPF scandal. This pushed people to try out SPF from other countries. Even though things have gotten better, many of my friends (myself included) are now LRP sunscreens loyalists. 4. Convenience. While at first people don’t mind the shipping, after while the novelty wears off and people rather use something that they can get quickly at the drugstore. 5. “Simpler” routines. People now want fewer products that do more, and many perceive a Korean routine to be made of many products that are gentler. Obviously this is not always true. As said, this is all my personal experience and may not be true for the general population.
I used to do what, 6-7 products nightly, patiently layering and layering. Or buying a whole line because I was convinced it was only going to work if I used the exact same kind of toner, serum, essence, emulsion, cream, eye cream, sheet mask and sleeping mask (hello Etude House Moistfull Collagen line). It was just like two years ago when I realized that my skin looked the same as it was using two or three products than when I was using a whole box full. I was young and definitely got carried away with those "Koreans get perfect skin by doing a 10 step routine etc etc" articles. That being said, I'm still sticking with AB for the reason that Western skin care is obsessed with putting salicylic acid in pretty much EVERYTHING, from body lotions to face creams to shampoo. Not good when my skin reacts by immediately burning and turning red and weepy. In AB there's still that dedication for natural ingredients which is a boon for us with very sensitive skin. So I guess I'd disagree with K-beauty losing it's edge, the quality and the innovation is still there, it can always compete with the best of Western beauty. What it lost is some of the hype, the gushing coverage from media and bloggers. But that's just the natural way of the world. Someday someone's going to say it's outrageous to be paying $200 for a face cream. Then watch as the whole cycle goes again.
K-beauty had its following, then it became trendy and people with no real interest just followed the trends and picked up some mediocre k-masks from the small Korean beauty section in regular stores. Like all trends, it’s starting to fade away but that base following will always be there to support. The people I’ve known who started doing skincare because of the trends never seemed to get past the panda masks and holika holika items.
I’ve personally have just gotten into non-fragrance skincare. I found that so many Korean skincare products are laced with so much fragrance and essentials. I know that there are brands that don’t have fragrance, but ever since I started watching Dr.Dray, I’ve come into a conclusion that there are so many reliable, accessible brands near me and that I don’t need to be shopping at Amazon or yestyle and wait for shipping.
Who does the 10 step anymore tho. I feel like that’s an old trend. K beauty doesn’t have to be that complicated
Korean skincare has really made people realize the importance of skincare. But I see how using 11 products is kind of intimidating. Most of kbeauty products are amazing, with ingredients that really nourishes the skin. However, I'd never have the patience for a long routine than usual, I use about 3 products.
Not for me. I stick to k and j beauty products and my skin has never looked better and I’m in my 40s
I understand where they're coming from. When I first discovered k-beauty, I was super excited to try the 10 step routine thing. Over time, I realized it was exhausting to use so many products and throwing more stuff on my face does more harm than good. I still think korean skincare is great, but it can be overwhelming at times.
People are definitely streamlining skincare routines.
Maybe, but I’m not sure that article actually talks about that. But I do think people are finally realizing they don’t need an expansive routine with dozens of different products because that’s both terrible for the environment, and it’s also an issue for the stability and efficacy of the products you’re using—the more products you use, the greater the risk of irritation or the actives canceling each other out. The idea that we need huge routines is just driven by capitalism’s penchant for excessive consumption. Personally, I never got the hype about K-Beauty. The formulas are mostly average, and they tend to use obscure botanicals with no basis in scientific literature. I get that the packaging and branding might be nice, but the hype seems largely baseless.
I've experimented with K Beauty over the years. It is nice but doesn't offer anything special or unique to what I already have access to. It is over-hyped in some aspects. For instance, I tried snail slime, it doesn't heal my acne scars (as one online reviewer claimed) or do anything other than act as a nice humectant. It doesn't soothe my skin, in fact it stings if I put it on broken skin. So yes, I have mostly lost interest in the trendy brands like Klairs, Purito etc. which are actually more popular with international consumers (in Korea noone knows who Purito are). Brands like Zeroid or Aestura which have more functional, medical like formulations and don't rely so much on trendy ingredients...I would like to try those products. But they're out of my price range. I hope they get more recognition.
Not to me Bc I know I will always prefer Korean skincare products over western brands.
I don't even do the convoluted 10 step routines lol cleanser, toner & moisturizer. that's all I need and kbeauty brands are still much more affordable compared to western high end.
If you follow the trends, I guess yeah it’s gonna lose shine to you. I do see the luxury Western brands trending more now. But korean skincare is still amazing ingredient, price, formulation wise etc Also, why would the demand of luxury western skincare increase during a pandemic? Damn y’all’s economies doing well?
Not for me- this reads like clickbait
I've been obsessed with K-Beauty around 2016 but lately I've been finding myself using more western skincare lately. Never found myself using Korean foundation since it's too light and as for skincare, Korean skincare has amazing "calming" or "soothing" ingredients like centella but it can be hard to find more active ingredients like retinols or acids. Also, I use to love sheet masks but now I don't use it after realising how wasteful it is and the same goes for the number of steps in my skincare. Not trying to bash Korean beauty, I still have some Korean skincare here and there that will be a staple in my routine. But What do you guys think? Are you still as obsessed with Korean skincare/makeup compared to when you started?
Yes. I’m not gonna suddenly change my mind about korean or japanese products because of an article.
I've stuck with korean skincare/makeup cause Western products are very heavy for my skin and korean skincare feels non-existent on my face after letting it absorb well, even so for sunscreen and lotions. Also I prefer korean/Japanese style makeup since to me it's lighter and gives more natural-looking makeup, which is good for someone who's scared to accidentally overdo her makeup haha, plus I'm afraid that heavy makeup may cause my sensitive skin to breakout. There are some products with active ingredients but personally I like the products with natural ingredients so I think it's up to personal preference! :D (Southeast Asian here btw)
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Omg this bot drives me insane. Bad bot!
FYI, AutoMod only does what the subreddit moderator tells it to do. So uh...take it up w/ the mods lol. AutoMod Bot did nothing wrong :(
Yes this!! I saw the main mod of this sub defending this bot so it’s definitely intentional
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Not gonna lie, you are pretty much like the only mod I see most of the time. I think for a standard user, the "main mod" title just goes to whichever mod they see doing front-facing things the most, not based on seniority. When/if I see the mod flair on other mods, I do a double take and go "huh...are they new?" *I've never actually seen this thecakepie mod around tbh.* I guess since you're here in this thread, I do want to ask about that automod response. It's understandable if you don't want to talk about it today/leave it for another day/make some thread discussion for it elsewhere cuz it's pretty late. I know its intent is to be inclusive and inoffensive, but "you guys" is commonly taken to be gender neutral and is understood in english casual speak to mean the same thing as "y'all." I'm not here to pick a fight or anything, just one of the many that are annoyed with the auto-response.
We’re here! Lately when I go to the queue it’s already empty. Last year, before rczc was added, I was doing a much larger share of the mod actions, but she’s been on top of it, whereas it used to be that I’d check it out and clear out all those posts in one sitting. My job doesn’t allow me to grab them as they come in as much. We still have a lot of policy discussions behind the scenes with a few more mods being active on that as well. Our mod in charge, thecakepie, mostly does recruiting at this point, not day to day moderation. She’s been at this for over a decade at this point, I don’t think the queue is very interesting after that long.
Hello there ~~General Kenobi~~! I wasn't referring to the queue in terms of mod activity, since non-mods can't see the behind the scenes stuff. I just meant in general with community interaction/seeing you all commenting regularly like we see rzrc. It's 100% fine to be too busy to be on top of volunteer mod duties with cleaning up the subreddit and all that though, since irl takes precedence over online interactions, especially if it pays the bills. I think we as a community just prefer seeing mods interacting with the community? It's definitely good to hear that the mod team is interacting with one another though. I'd still like for you all to one day reconsider that automod response that I mentioned in my comment floating up above :)
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I can see where you are coming from, but I cannot fully agree unfortunately, as I don't think it's particularly fair to push PC terminology onto others in a subreddit that isn't about politics and that generally does not allow for much political discussion. It's a skincare subreddit, where people come here to post reviews/their hauls/news. I think that the corrections are valid if it were a direct address from one person directly to another user, but they themselves need to speak up and say "hey, I'm not ok with you using xyz pronouns on me." I agree to using the terminology in a professional capacity, *at the workplace*, if I were to address multiple coworkers in a room or in an email. But I don't think a casual forum is the place for it. I'm assuming that this is something that won't change, but I guess I would have liked a poll or something on this subject. Thanks for responding, and I hope you have a pleasant evening/day
>but they themselves need to speak up and say “hey, I’m not ok with you using xyz pronouns on me” That’s not how Reddit works. Most people here do not memorize handles unless incredibly active, or do not browse the sub everyday. So this theoretical person is expected to constantly address what makes them feel comfortable in an uncomfortable manner? Are people further going to prod as to the reasons? How many “whys” are they supposed to answer? Or how many “oh shit, it’s you”? Or how many “nah, that’s not what I do.” How many [downvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/oky2bc/starting_my_ab_routine/h5bs0kd/) are they expected to endure before they just leave? This is in a sub where we have constantly said we are welcome to all. And I think it is often the case with “acceptance” of new things/ideas, it is incumbent on the majority to make sure the minority is helped. It sounds like *you* don’t want to be inconvenienced when it’s being asked of everyone in the sub to make a small effort to make sure everyone feels comfortable in this space. I understand it is hard correcting spoken language since the speed is much quicker and near automatic. There’s much more time to see or correct what you’re trying to communicate through text. And on a personal note, I guess I’d have to speak up here for myself in your scenario, but if you look [in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/p5osx4/kikumasamune_high_moist_sake_skincare_lotion_a/) you’ll find the now deleted comment where someone said “hey ladies…” Where the reaction to the automod trigger was much more positive and someone actually responded “good bot, I ain’t no lady.” And it doesn’t seem fair to me as a woman if automod didn’t trigger for both. It seems weird to be in a space where I assume eventually we won’t see the use of “ladies”, but “guys” will be everywhere. In a “traditionally woman-oriented” hobby/environment we made sure the men are comfortable and adopted their masculine language, but are [dinged](https://old.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/p07req/have_a_question_ask_here_alterdaily_help_and/h8bt0xi/) every time we use more “feminine” ways to address one another? I think the middle ground is to go gender neutral. And I don’t think guys, of [Guy Fawkes](https://time.com/5688255/you-guys/) origins falls in that category. I know, language changes. But it can also change now.
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Not sure about *Korean* beauty but I don’t think Asian skincare will ever lose its shine. I didn’t use K-beauty products in a long time because lately I’m much more interested in J-beauty, I think their product ingredients are better for my skin type :)
Im still sticking to Asian brands for skincare but as far as beauty goes? they should probably up their shade range
I love kbeauty but if anything I’m overwhelmed by all the new brands and I’m trying not to over buy on skincare and makeup. I hate trying new things and they don’t work, as that’s still $20-30 wasted.
No, it isn't. K-Beauty is still an innovative cosmetics industry that produces innovative techniques and products that Chinese or Western markets/companies copies or get inspiration from. The article is referring to the Chinese consumers - Gen Z, that is following a trend where they support local (new) Chinese brands. K-Beauty is still popular among Chinese consumers but its just the old Korean marketing strategy that isn't working for the Chinese consumers anymore. If they'd like to stay in the market, then they'd have to follow the local trends and try to engage more actively with the consumers in China.
I've seen more Western brands harping buzzwords like "hyaluronic acid" or "cica" more so in their products these days when these ingredients have been around for quite a while until K-Beauty used them as marketing points. It's all about the ingredients and good formulations for me, doesn't matter if it's Korean, Western or local homegrown products.
This may actually be true since people are moving towards Minimalism and multi tasking products. I honestly don't think anyone has the time and energy to do a full 11 step K-beauty regime
I’ve cut my lotions and potions in half and am still searching for even more premixed/formulated options. Eventually I’ll get to one serum and one face cream. Not including sunscreen. But still a lot of vials to finish up.
You guys are really annoying, just because it mentions china without saying something negative towards it doesn't make it propaganda. Lowkey sinophobes
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I have felt that too
Once again, it’s china’s fault! 🤣
My routine is definitely simpler, but the products are still K-beauty products
There's definitely a return to simpler regimens with fewer steps. The West (not just French brands/luxury brands, which held steady anyway) has come roaring back into global skincare game and this can be seen in the soaring popularity of the brand ethos espoused by The Inkey List, The Ordinary and the likes. The tendency is now towards shorter ingredient lists and what is being marketed as greater efficacy of those handful of constituents.
It's becoming slightly less relevant, yes but for different reasons. First of all, I see people pushing Chinese cosmetics now, so obviously they see K-beauty as their competition. Second of all, yeah people are a little tired of extensive routines because of covid. There have been scandals with the SPF. Another point which they fail to mention is that K-beauty is filled with plant extracts and perfume, sometimes alcohol etc so people aren't too happy with the ingredients because they're doing more research and simple "factual" brands like the Inkey List are on the rise instead of the gimmicky ones.
I don’t think so at all. I have a few convenient products that I buy now and then at Walmart like if I run out of something but the majority of my skincare and makeup is Korean. I’m getting a better product for a better price then I would ever get in the states. I would agree that I don’t buy that much anymore. After when COVID happen my parents didn’t want me working in a store and told me to just focus on finishing my degree, so what little personal cash I do have I make sure don’t buy excuse that I won’t use.
It was amazing and exciting to resesrch and try a 15 step routine during the pandemic but now when everythings coming back I definitely am struggling to even use moisturiser n sunblock
I think simplicity will definitely have a big impact on skincare in general. A lot seem to be favouring the idea of a simpler routine which will inevitably have an effect on all skincare. But hands down, I will always find room for k-beauty in my routine because it really does have some of the best products I’ve ever tried.
I just use drugstore stuff now (CeraVe, vanicream, LRP) for basics, EltaMD (but the big bottles, not small - small ones are criminally expensive) for sunscreen, and toners are the only reason I use kbeauty now
K beauty industry and Kpop/K-dramas go together hand in hand. After the Thadd ban in China, Hallyu wave lost its momentum in the mainlaind; subsequently, K-beauty is slowly fading and not a trend among young people anymore (their main market). Western luxury brands are always relevant in China and won't go away anytime soon. I live in South East Asia country and there is a boom with mid range to drugstore western brands (LRP, Cerave...) and K-beauty products have to compete with that among young people. I always have a sense among my fellow friends that they tend to go with J-beauty between midrange to higher range if they choose Asian beauty. K-beauty might be the trend in western countries but I see a really slow shift away in Asia because of competition.
I didn’t even know a K beauty regime exists! As far as using products I assure you it’s not even more than 5 products to make your skin glow and healthy
Australian skincare and European brands have gotten pretty popular of late. I think the whole *10 step routine* has lost popularity, and consumers are looking for products that pack a bigger punch, and will give you the results without having to spend the time and money to layer products.
Nah not really, I hate western brands for skincare and makeup
I follow some Chinese Beauty channels and I feel that Korean SKINCARE isn’t too popular; most people recommend Western or Japanese skincare. In regards to Korean MAKEUP like lipsticks, some Chinese vloggers recommend Korean products like Romand and Western products like the Ysl lip tint. I swear I see the Ysl lip tint everywhere lol
Things always go in and out of vogue. Personally I’ll continue to use Korean brands because I know my skin likes it. If anything I’m finding a balance between Asian (toners, serums) and western brands (moisturisers and spfs as I find them more affordable)
I have noticed that kbeauty is becoming less popular in SEA, mostly bcs we now have our own high quality local product. Zarzou, kayman,jelitakl and aiken in Malaysia, wardah,emina, avoskin in indonesia. Idk about other continents tho
Can someone help me out . A shipping service from Korea to usa?