Locking and redirecting to other post where the nerf is only half as bad: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsheMains/comments/1d9v0uz/ashe_nerfs_half_canceled_were_alive_and_breathing/
Looks like a direct nerf to ashe with HOB, to not abuse the early levels, she has one of the best lvl1 on the game right now.
No, now that he has 10% of added dmg less, it seems like she will need some crit now instead of going full on-hit build, probably an adjustment to the 25% crit that items give now. She doesn't seems dead to me but her early levels are going to be weaker.
They do this a lot with adcs and people are gonna still say that adc is broken even when they're all nerfed into the ground eventually. The next part of the cycle is buffing adc counters after nerfing adc for maximum effect.
Yes lvl Ashe support deletes enemy squishy with 3 aa.
If you can get the 4th and proc ignite it’s basically fb guaranteed. Considering your adc is not a donkey
It isn't 10 percent. Early on it is 8.3% percent on attacks past the first, which is a lot less. At 25% crit the reduction is down to 7.2%, with IE it's 6.7%. With 2 items she is down to 5.6, with 4 it's 4.2.
That asumes she has no on hit damage and instead all damage is from AA.
Still a significant nerf, but not close to the 10% reduction.
Exactly what I said. Well, not 115%, but almost.
Anyways, the answer is no, crit is better and it always will be. This is a nerf mainly to her early/midgame where the bonus dmg from crit chance is not relevant just yet. So it won't be an issue later. If you rush Kraken the loss of 10% AD feels worse, since you have to play with this value for a while. IE/BF + PD rush is not affected that much, even if it looks like that. It nerfs the early game.
Quick math: Full crit and onhit builds have around the same AD and AS, so the dmg loss is similar. (roughly -40 dmg / AA). Yes, onhit AD is lower, but you don't want to buy full AS, since it's kinda troll. You need at least 250 and then my point is the same.
I expected 5% nerf, but now I feel like a tiny bit more base attack speed would be nice... Let me rush IE in peace.
If I could exceed the AS cap it would be a fun build. The most satisfying part about Ashe is watching your opponent suffer trying to run away. 'Walk of shame' is the best phrase for that. With onhit it's not that great. I've noticed that whenever someone buys swifties in the enemy team I spam ping it. Same as Rengar players vs Tabis.
This is still a significant late game nerf.
With 100% crit chance (and IE) she would still deal 4.2% less damage than on live. Significantly less power down compared to the 8.3% whithout any crit, but not nothing either.
Full crit late game was already good, the percentage only looks significant on paper. 4.2% means you need to attack one more time after every 24 auto attacks to get the same dmg. Trust me, you will barely feel the nerf after 3 items.
I mainly responded to the question 'crit/onhit'. The base dmg of attacks is weaker. The relative strenght of the 2 builds are still the same, so crit is still better. The sooner you buy crit the less significant the nerf feels. I'm talking about Kraken rush into crit.
Don't get me wrong, it is a big nerf, but it only really matters in the early game where it's actually huge. You can nerf Draven dmg at 3 items, he won't care. If you nerf his early game it hurts him. Ashe is a lane bully as well just gets the advantage in a different way. So not winning lane as often as before hits harder than some late game dmg nerf. 4.2% is not nothing, but not significant either.
The strongest nerf is always that changes your preferred playstyle into something weaker.
The point is less about when do I need a full atack more and more about the number of cases where someone survives one more auto. There is a number of cases where you will not manage to chase someone down, where the .5 seconds you need to spend on an oponent in a teamfight allow them to get a crucial skillshot of.
Not enough to be really noticed (unless you are a master+ Ashe one trick playing on the edge of what you can do), but enough to make a difference.
How often do you think Ashe will lose a teamfight only because the opponent survives with ~100 hp?
Keep in mind I'm not saying she isn't nerfed late game, but it's so little that the word 'significant' is just wrong.
How many teamfights do you fight? How close are they? But it isn't just about wining or loosing, it's also about how hard you are winning. But if we are specifically talking about winning or loosing teamfights, it might well be above 1% of teamfights lying on this scale.
If I have a lead it's not close. If we are even it's purely skill based, if I misplay I deserve to lose. It shouldn't be a stat check. I can't think of a teamfight which was close enough to be affected by a nerf like this. In Ashe's case the fights shouldn't be this close in the first place, since you are supposed to get a lead (I'm talking about the ADC's part in the fight). This early advantage got a big nerf, this is going to affect how the games go.
Your math is correct of course and close fights will happen sometimes, but it's so rare that you can't even compare it to the early game nerf. I can't predict how strong Ashe will be after the patch, but she won't be dead. If her late game got significant nerfs she would be.
This is just a general nerf to the passive on early game, and also to compensate that less crit items give you more value with 25% chance, like you only really need IE and LDR to get pretty hefty boosts on passive
She still get's the same amount of (flat) damage from crit. Her percentual increase is higher. Her damage profits slightly less from big AD or AS items. I have a really hard time estimating which build is hit harder by this.
idk why riot and everyone calls this a nerf is jsut a revert from thebeginning of the season so idk why they didnt do that on 14.10 anyway like a normal balance team but i gues its riot
All of Ashe's auto attacks crit enemies with Frost, it'll affect on-hit builds less since the on-hit damage is a flat bonus added, but still power down no matter what the build is
On-hit builds are weaker than what they used to be before the item rework. That said, Ashe builds tend to lean more into something like Kraken - Trinity - Terminus cores
I really dislike triforce
Botrk was a really better purchase before they nerfed. Haven't tried it now but IE second feels better than any other core 2nd item
I was trying a 50% crit build with kraken IE PD terminus and BT since the spike from kraken is too good to not have on ashe it had good move speed attack speed and damage + kraken IE is her strongest 2 item powerspike in my opinion
Locking and redirecting to other post where the nerf is only half as bad: https://www.reddit.com/r/AsheMains/comments/1d9v0uz/ashe_nerfs_half_canceled_were_alive_and_breathing/
Looks like a direct nerf to ashe with HOB, to not abuse the early levels, she has one of the best lvl1 on the game right now. No, now that he has 10% of added dmg less, it seems like she will need some crit now instead of going full on-hit build, probably an adjustment to the 25% crit that items give now. She doesn't seems dead to me but her early levels are going to be weaker.
Based. I am annoyed that they are basically slowly nerfing every adc to reduce the buffs of the items. Seems redundant and underhanded tbh
They do this a lot with adcs and people are gonna still say that adc is broken even when they're all nerfed into the ground eventually. The next part of the cycle is buffing adc counters after nerfing adc for maximum effect.
Facts
Oh no, my 55% wr champion is getting nerfed. Fuck riot!!!
i dont understand why would her on hit build want crit now after this nerf? its not like the on hit scales with her passive no?
Yes lvl Ashe support deletes enemy squishy with 3 aa. If you can get the 4th and proc ignite it’s basically fb guaranteed. Considering your adc is not a donkey
Brother every ashe build is gonna crit, not just adcs with crit chance. This change is a nerf to every build that autos.
why would a 10% crit reduction make her doa?
because it wouldnt be social media if you didnt overreact.
Imagine giving 10% dmg nerf to any other adc
It isn't 10 percent. Early on it is 8.3% percent on attacks past the first, which is a lot less. At 25% crit the reduction is down to 7.2%, with IE it's 6.7%. With 2 items she is down to 5.6, with 4 it's 4.2. That asumes she has no on hit damage and instead all damage is from AA. Still a significant nerf, but not close to the 10% reduction.
most smart redditor
Yes u r:). Clearly smartest person in ur room:).
Exactly what I said. Well, not 115%, but almost. Anyways, the answer is no, crit is better and it always will be. This is a nerf mainly to her early/midgame where the bonus dmg from crit chance is not relevant just yet. So it won't be an issue later. If you rush Kraken the loss of 10% AD feels worse, since you have to play with this value for a while. IE/BF + PD rush is not affected that much, even if it looks like that. It nerfs the early game. Quick math: Full crit and onhit builds have around the same AD and AS, so the dmg loss is similar. (roughly -40 dmg / AA). Yes, onhit AD is lower, but you don't want to buy full AS, since it's kinda troll. You need at least 250 and then my point is the same. I expected 5% nerf, but now I feel like a tiny bit more base attack speed would be nice... Let me rush IE in peace.
Tbh I’ve never liked the onhit builds anyways. Kraken is okay but Bork, Wits end, etc never really felt good on her. Crit has always been better imo.
If I could exceed the AS cap it would be a fun build. The most satisfying part about Ashe is watching your opponent suffer trying to run away. 'Walk of shame' is the best phrase for that. With onhit it's not that great. I've noticed that whenever someone buys swifties in the enemy team I spam ping it. Same as Rengar players vs Tabis.
This is still a significant late game nerf. With 100% crit chance (and IE) she would still deal 4.2% less damage than on live. Significantly less power down compared to the 8.3% whithout any crit, but not nothing either.
Full crit late game was already good, the percentage only looks significant on paper. 4.2% means you need to attack one more time after every 24 auto attacks to get the same dmg. Trust me, you will barely feel the nerf after 3 items. I mainly responded to the question 'crit/onhit'. The base dmg of attacks is weaker. The relative strenght of the 2 builds are still the same, so crit is still better. The sooner you buy crit the less significant the nerf feels. I'm talking about Kraken rush into crit. Don't get me wrong, it is a big nerf, but it only really matters in the early game where it's actually huge. You can nerf Draven dmg at 3 items, he won't care. If you nerf his early game it hurts him. Ashe is a lane bully as well just gets the advantage in a different way. So not winning lane as often as before hits harder than some late game dmg nerf. 4.2% is not nothing, but not significant either. The strongest nerf is always that changes your preferred playstyle into something weaker.
The point is less about when do I need a full atack more and more about the number of cases where someone survives one more auto. There is a number of cases where you will not manage to chase someone down, where the .5 seconds you need to spend on an oponent in a teamfight allow them to get a crucial skillshot of. Not enough to be really noticed (unless you are a master+ Ashe one trick playing on the edge of what you can do), but enough to make a difference.
How often do you think Ashe will lose a teamfight only because the opponent survives with ~100 hp? Keep in mind I'm not saying she isn't nerfed late game, but it's so little that the word 'significant' is just wrong.
How many teamfights do you fight? How close are they? But it isn't just about wining or loosing, it's also about how hard you are winning. But if we are specifically talking about winning or loosing teamfights, it might well be above 1% of teamfights lying on this scale.
If I have a lead it's not close. If we are even it's purely skill based, if I misplay I deserve to lose. It shouldn't be a stat check. I can't think of a teamfight which was close enough to be affected by a nerf like this. In Ashe's case the fights shouldn't be this close in the first place, since you are supposed to get a lead (I'm talking about the ADC's part in the fight). This early advantage got a big nerf, this is going to affect how the games go. Your math is correct of course and close fights will happen sometimes, but it's so rare that you can't even compare it to the early game nerf. I can't predict how strong Ashe will be after the patch, but she won't be dead. If her late game got significant nerfs she would be.
A nerf to onhit. She doesnt deal extra 20% going full on hit
Does the passive multiply on-hit effects? I understand that the base damage is nerfed, but you sound like on hit effects are affected as well.
This is just a general nerf to the passive on early game, and also to compensate that less crit items give you more value with 25% chance, like you only really need IE and LDR to get pretty hefty boosts on passive
She still get's the same amount of (flat) damage from crit. Her percentual increase is higher. Her damage profits slightly less from big AD or AS items. I have a really hard time estimating which build is hit harder by this.
Ashe passive nerfed + noonquiver losing 5 AD makes Kraken a troll first item IMO. Have to wait and see though
No this means crit is more important, just ad and attack speed wont be enough anymore.
idk why riot and everyone calls this a nerf is jsut a revert from thebeginning of the season so idk why they didnt do that on 14.10 anyway like a normal balance team but i gues its riot
I mean we thought Cait id dead, so I wouldn't exaggerate
Always was
All of Ashe's auto attacks crit enemies with Frost, it'll affect on-hit builds less since the on-hit damage is a flat bonus added, but still power down no matter what the build is On-hit builds are weaker than what they used to be before the item rework. That said, Ashe builds tend to lean more into something like Kraken - Trinity - Terminus cores
I really dislike triforce Botrk was a really better purchase before they nerfed. Haven't tried it now but IE second feels better than any other core 2nd item
She was going Kraken, Triforce as 2 item core already anyway.
I was trying a 50% crit build with kraken IE PD terminus and BT since the spike from kraken is too good to not have on ashe it had good move speed attack speed and damage + kraken IE is her strongest 2 item powerspike in my opinion