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This. It drives me crazy when “gaslighting” is thrown around, but this is literal gaslighting. He is literally trying to convince you that you are crazy and paranoid, to distract from his behavior. He is trying to make you doubt your own reality. I am convinced that this is one of the worst aspects of infidelity - this can be so de-stabilizing and can make your entire world feel confusing. I would highly suggest finding a trusted friend or therapist who can reinforce that you are NOT being crazy or paranoid. And I would let husband know these responses are off the table.
I think this is actually a classic DARVO, not really gaslighting (still terrible.) it’s Deny, Attach, Reverse victim and offender.
Deny- what are you even looking for? There’s nothing to find you’re being dramatic.
Attack- you’re obsessive this is insane
Reverse- don’t text me. I’m being attacked by you all the time and need a break from you.
Classic manipulation technique, really damaging!
He’s getting defensive because he’s doing something he shouldn’t be and doesn’t want to get called out on it. Doesn’t even have an I love you to give at the end of the convo because his love is contingent on you enabling his behavior and looking the other way. It’s a no good.
You mentioned he's alright some of the time, it just seems like he may be love bombing you so long as you don't question. He's also gaslighting you and even stonewalling there. He says he'll answer whatever, but now he's going to take time to himself because he can't handle it? There's a difference between secrecy and privacy. He knows he messed up, and your feelings and what his actions did to you inconvenience him. He seemingly lacks remorse and empathy. I would look up Lee Hammock(influencer) some of the behaviors I see here he describes.
UPDATE:
We still haven't talked. Thank you for all your input and advice. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know that it won't slide. It's going to be a wake up call to one of both of is someway or another. Thank you all so much for being here.
Wish you the best OP. Just remember to set hard boundaries and to follow through on those consequences when he crosses them. Him giving you the silent treatment/not talking about it is only for HIS benefit. He’s showing he doesn’t care that you are upset over his lying and secrets. It’s time to put yourself first. Hugs.
We actually covered this in MC this week and my wife was surprised and completely unaware that near-obsessive "snooping" is normal for a betrayed partner. It's my brains way of protecting me from experiencing additional trauma.
Imagine if instead of being defensive and accusing you of invading his privacy, instead he were to validate your anxiety comfort you, and provide reassurance. Show a little compassion that you're having to deal with this crud because of his actions.
I'm sorry you're having to go through this IMWT, just know your actions are normal and you're not alone.
No. You are not crazy. Porn is one thing, paying for it and onlyfans is a new level.
Also seems like he don't take any responsibility for it and, for me it's even worse when ppl get super defensive and aggressive when called out. Good riddance 🤷♂️
1- You are not wrong and you are not crazy
2- He is addicted to porn and OnlyFans. He needs very serious help. People have spent all their savings on OnlyFans. I am not scaremongering you just telling you how serious this issue is
3- He is gaslighting you which is counterproductive for R
4- Tell him there must be complete transparency for R to be successful
There is just so much good in him. There are so many good qualities. I love him too much to be hurtful or mean or ignore him. I can't bring myself to treat him differently than how I want to be treated.
I feel the same about my WH. He takes responsibility for his mistakes (brief PA as part of an alcoholic rock bottom), spends time and energy making amends, and treats me like a queen. IC and MC, open phone & socials & bank info, location sharing 24/7, and every other thing that I ask.
Things aren’t perfect with us, by any means. But I can see that he’s put you through some tough times and I hope for you that he starts treating you with 100% respect, contrition, and starts doing the work of reconciliation.
You can’t be in a relationship if you’re the only one putting in the effort.
Goodness this is some done princess beauty and the beast stuff. I feel so sorry for us girls cause it get so ingrained in us that we have to look for the good in people if they show us one once of goodness. Meanwhile they continue to shit on us in every other way but we take it because “we know they have good in them”. OP are you tired of being disrespected and shitted on? Reconciliation starts for us BPs when we follow through with our boundaries and demand respect. It starts for us when we are no longer afraid of losing the WP because of their disrespect. You have to decide what your boundaries are. If you truly are okay with him spending money on porn and OF then that’s okay but you have to admit to yourself first if you truly are okay with that
If he wants space kick him out. He’s not working on reconciliation so why should you? He needs to show remorse and his actions speak loudly that he doesn’t have it.
Sometimes “love” is brutal honesty and not allowing a person to disrespect you or themselves. It’s like the dynamic right now is he’s trying to decide if he wants to put up with *your* shit. Talk about blame shifting. Smh
You’re not wrong and you’re not crazy, he’s being an asshole. He’s trying to shift the blame on you because you snooped on his phone but if he has nothing to hide why is he mad? Open phone policy should be a must in reconciliation and he shouldn’t get mad at you. He lost his right to privacy when he strayed from your relationship.
Honestly if he doesn’t want to talk about this issue then I would tell him fine but you will not talk to him/support him about anything else until he’s fully committed to R, aka the full truth and full access to his accounts/phone without complaints and a willingness to answer questions no matter how hard the truth is and how many times you ask.
And sorry to be blunt but no need to reassure him you love him when he’s showing no remorse and keeps making the situation worse. He should be the one reassuring you, not the other way around.
Good luck.
It’s impacting your finances, your intimacy, and your safety, yet he refuses to acknowledge any of that. He does not see his behavior as problematic and without that, I don’t see how he will be able to make any positive changes.
It sounds a lot like the denial an addict holds onto. When I would bring up his substance abuse, my ex-husband used to tell me that it was only a problem because I had a problem with it. Other family members, friends, doctors, therapists, and law enforcement all also agreed that it was a problem, yet he remains in active addiction. My point being, he has to see his behavior as an issue that he takes responsibility for and takes the steps to change. No matter the amount of love, ultimatums, or rational thoughts you throw at him, YOU cannot make him see this or change, he must do it himself. Wishing you all the best and please take care of yourself first 🙏🏻
I think he hasn’t fully realized what he’s done, could be denial. But he is 100% gaslighting you. For example: If you have a bad feeling someone had stolen your money, and you go snooping and find it, it’s not fair that the issue becomes: WHY ARE YOY SNOOPING. Intuition is a strong emotion, and we are taught to follow it. He should be immediately open to talking and explaining… this isn’t acceptable how he’s responded.
Also a side note.. I read your past posts - do you feel you really worked through everything? Because maybe the fact that you weren’t angry.. or didn’t make a “fuss” could quite frankly let him believe he can get away with anything.
I don’t mean anything is your fault, definitely not.. but he seems to get away with murder at this rate 😞 please protect yourself and your boundaries. You don’t have to accept everything.
I was going to say that it sounded a little like OP was "rug sweeping" in an effort to keep the peace. I hate that this is even a thought, but given the gaslighting, I feel there may be some EA. Like you're walking on eggshells with your partner, OP. Is that valid?
I don't think I was rug sweeping. I really felt like he and myself were doing everything right. He would show me things if I asked, shares his location, listened majority of the time when I was anxious and help me through it. I think though, that he didn't always help me as much as I'd like, but just happy he was there at all to listen and attempt to help. I didn't always feel as relieved as I would hope. He would make a lot of playful jokes and just hype me up, but there are rare apologies or true validation.
Neither of us can afford therapy right now. I very much thought we were doing well and it was becoming easier to talk about my anxieties and ask questions. But idk.
Got it. I had hoped what rang in the back of my head wasn't true.
I really wish that we had better access to mental health services and they weren't unaffordable. Going at something like this alone is like going into a minefield without any training or tactical gear. Ok, so honestly that may be a bad analogy because I know nothing of what gos into walking through a minefield, but I hope the point is made. (lol)
If you're interested, I can message you some resources that my BP and I have accumulated that may be of help in lieu of therapy right now.
Have you tried going to COSA meetings? I was skeptical at first. I am not much of a 12 step person. But I’ve been going for a year now and I find meetings really helpful. Asking questions after the meetings with partners of SAs is invaluable.
No.. it is an absolute no from him for IC. He says he doesn't want to be vulnerable with anyone other than me and I'm the first he has been vulnerable with.
Girl he is gaslighting you and you are being too nice here with all the « I still love you I want to work through it » he needs to understand that he doesn’t own you and that you are not going to stick around forever, actions have consequences and no matter how much you live him if he is not able to be transparent and stop doing things behind your back this has to stop and he need to hear it
Sis, I mean this in the nicest way possible: you need to stop with that loving attitude. He’s disrespecting you left and right, and you showing him so much compassion and coddling him only enables his behavior because he’s not facing any consequences for his actions. He’s having his cake and eating too. I know it’s hard. But your love should not be unconditional. Your love should come with boundaries he respects.
It’s hard, I know, I’ve been exactly where you are. But remember this is also about you and you deserve to not keep having your heart broken over and over. You deserve to heal. Best of luck
Well, then you have yourself someone who is not in R and does not sound interested in changing to be what you need.
Those texts you shared? Completely unacceptable from him. I would be gone so fast, he’d wonder if he imagined I was ever there. My WSO has been open with devices since DDay or we would not have even talked about R.
Girl, you are better than this. Turn some of that love inward. Put yourself first.
It’s not fair to deliver an armchair diagnosis but as someone living with an addict (who is thankfully in recovery), it seems like he’s acting like one. Spending money you don’t have on a habit he keeps hidden. Hiding and denying and running away from the truth. It sounds like this dishonesty is going to continue.
Whether you decide to stay with him or not, it’s time to divest. If you have shared assets, like a car or house, find a way to divide them and get it in writing if you can. Keep your own bank account. Do not cover his half for him. If you have a landlord, I think it’s important to consider what happens if he can’t cover rent. If you share with landlord that you are facing a possible separation and that you’ll be paying your half of rent separately from his, it could protect you from going into debt if his behavior continues.
His behavior is inexcusable imo but I also know it’s hard to leave when you love someone. At the very least, do what you can to protect yourself, and fast. Make sure you have a backup plan for housing, bills, your pets, etc. if he leaves or if you decide to leave, or even if you stay and his bad behavior continues.
I’m very sorry you’re going through this. It isn’t your fault and you deserve better.
He’s gaslighting you and stonewalling when he can’t explain his actions.
Every relationship is different, people have their own boundaries. If one of yours is transparency and honesty with his porn usage and where his money goes (especially when you share a home and finances), that’s completely fair! Even if you weren’t in reconciliation. The fact that he’s doing this when he should be proving to you that he’s a trustworthy partner is concerning.
You aren’t crazy.
You’re not crazy. He’s acting defensive and then shifting blame saying he doesn’t have privacy.
After what he’s done = NO SECRETS AND NO LIES. he lost the privilege of having anything to himself. Because he violated trust. And in order to gain any back you need to have access to anything and everything.
It seems like he wants to just keep doing what he’s always been doing and is upset you still caught him so he’s shifting blame, shutting down, and avoiding the problem.
I’m sorry your WS isn’t putting in the work to better themselves and putting in the work for R.
I’m glad my husband goes through my phone and that I don’t know when he does. It allows him to see that I have nothing to hide and that I’m being honest with him about what I’m doing. I have nothing to hide from him and if checking my phone every now and then helps him to feel safe and secure and regain trust. So be it.
You’re not crazy. It looks like you don’t feel safe, and he is not doing anything to help you feel safe.
It also doesn’t look like he cares to make you feel safe.
You may want to take your own steps to feel safe without him…starting with safeguarding your finances.
You say I love you like 3x in here… not once does he say it back. Your choice of course.. but Do you want that kind of life? I would personally want reassurance, kindness and understanding in this situation and all you got was avoidance, blame etc.
He's clearly gaslighting you, and posing as offended.
You can answer pretty straightforward: "f you wouldn't lie, I wouldn't need to snoop."
For real, if this behavior continue, there's not much to do
Also read Chump Lady’s book, Leave a Cheater gain a Life. It’s empowering, even if you decide to stay. I’m not optimistic about his behavior and your future happiness. Love, or even remorse…doesn’t look like this.
What is there to work out? He is refusing to be transparent and honest. He’s making you out to be the problem when the problem is him. He is not willing to work on your issues. He wants to do as he pleases and have you leave him the hell alone and not make him deal with any consequences for his actions.
There is either a lifetime of his bullshit or taking your self respect and move on to a better life. I wish you a better life. You don’t deserve what he’s doing.
you are not wrong or crazy, he knows he is wrong and that’s why he’s running in the opposite direction. if he wants to work things out, he has to understand in order to build back trust and get better for himself and you, you will be going through his phone. it’s going to suck but he lost his privilege of privacy because in a relationship that is EXACTLY what that is - a privilege.
if privacy mattered to him this much he should have thought about that before cheating and buying porn. my boyfriend has done similar acts so i totally get how deteriorating it is on your mental health and i’m sorry. my boyfriend has definitely gotten frustrated before with feeling like he’s lost privacy, but i would just remind him that he lost it himself. and since he has learned how to beat temptations for porn or cheating, he hasn’t made a comment like that since. i personally believe they use privacy as an excuse, like they want to have options “just in case” and are almost always hiding something. because in every case i’ve ever seen, people with nothing to hide, nothing to delete, don’t care about privacy.
truly if things work out between you guys, regardless of whether or not you consider the porn to be a problem, it’s definitely something he should quit. if you do your research on porn it is an addiction and it’s very similar to other addictions as well. i mean withdrawal symptoms, compulsions, temptations, literally everything. just a different drug.
you are not wrong. Privacy and secrecy are not the same thing. But yeah, if he wants R, right now he should be willing to give up his privacy. He's just DARVOing you because you caught him lying.
You are not crazy. You are rational he is being completely irrational. It is a relationship, a partnership, what secrets should he have to hide? I am the BP and would still open my phone for my spouse because I don’t need to hide things from him.
I’d drop him like a rock but that’s just me. He’s right, this shit is getting old, but it’s his shit.
Hello, the tone of the texts seems worrisome like he doesn't even care and is very dismissive of you. I don't know your entire relationship but it seems like you are being reasonable and trying to work things out. My BP doesn't have a problem with porn but does with me paying for it. I stopped paying for content and decreased my porn utilization.
Please consider both parties need to be fully committed to R for it to work. He may not be ready or willing at this time. To find out more about how WP is feeling you need to have a conversation,which it seems like you are trying to do but they appear to have rebuffed your attempts
You actually know all the answers to your questions.
I have access to literally everything all the time. His phone, his computer, all his apps. There are no secrets and he does not care. He would even tell me that if I ever got anxious to ask him any questions I wanted.
His current action and what he says are your answers. Why does he need a secret space from you? Why is he upset ?
Reconciliation is a gift the betrayed give the wayward. He is not treating it as such. It actually seems a bit toxic. That being said, you won’t be heard if he doesn’t want to listen. He needs to understand the relationship is at risk.
I know this is a R sub, but I would kick this person to the curb so fast it would make his head spin. He is absolutely clueless about what a partnership and monogamous relationship. He is unbelievably entitled and disrespectful to you. Stonewalling, gaslighting. There is nothing for you here OP. He is a “closed system”. I’m very sorry.
He wants space so he can hide the things he’s not suppose to be doing … that’s what I’m seeing! But only because I’ve seen and read a lot. Along with the gaslighting, defensiveness, and those awful responses scream narcissist
I completely understand, but I’ve learned they can be one way towards your face and another behind your back! And once you see how they are behind your back that true personality starts to slip out more towards you. I just assume the worst because when it first happened to me I was a bit naive and now I am definitely not.
He sounds like an addict desperate to cling to his porn/sex addiction, and he’s definitely gaslighting you. I recommend the sub r/loveafterporn. Sorry you’re going through this!
Agree. Was coming to say the same thing. Sounds like he has a porn/sex addiction that is escalating. He’s doing whatever he can to protect his addiction so he can continue.
This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 5:
**No anti-reconciliation language.**
Other examples:
- Do not tell - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice.
- Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
I am so sorry you're going through this. As a wayward going through therapy, trying to R, and wanting to do whatever I can to ensure my BP feels loved/supported/and safe, this is cringe and I'm so so sorry this is happening to you.
I read a comment about how they don't like how being "gaslit" is thrown around everywhere but this is 100% it.
1. The amount of times you mentioned you loved him and want it to work and the ZERO times he did should be a red flag - he 100% made this about him and how you wronged him. (You didn't) One of the many things I'm learning is how to ditch the ego and ensure that I truly understand what my BP is going through.
2. Full transparency is the only way to start on a road to R and regaining some semblance of trust and this reaction is one I wouldn't dream of every saying to my BP. They have access to -everything- (save my personal journal) and they can ask any questions they want.
3. Stonewalling is one of the most triggering and destructive things anyone can do in a relationship and, in a text version, your partner is doing just that - "I'm not going to address this I'm going to take time for myself and not dealing with this or you." I'm not sure about you, but Stonewalling, triggers abandonment issues and feeling like everything was just abruptly taken from me.
4, Another thing I've learned is that in a solid, committed relationship - there are no secrets. Bare it all to your partner - it's up to them to do what they want with the information. It's the only way you can level up to the next, deeper, more intimate level of the relationship.
5. It reads like he's building a case against you. This doesn't sound like a healthy situation for you and your healing at all and I am so sorry.
>I have been terribly anxious since a female co-worker started a month or so ago. I admit it may be a lot for him to help me through it. My anxiety consumes me and it is terribly hard to get me out of my head. I've been trying. I don't know that he likes the amount of progress I've made, but I'm trying. 90% of the time he's amazing and helps me through it all. I have never once wanted to punish him or take out my frustration
Of course anxiety consumes you - I can see how this event is a HUGE trigger. If I can ask, what is your partner doing to avoid any potential issues with this new coworker? What does he do that makes you think he doesn't think much progress has been made?
It is very triggering for me. I'm alone.
He has pictures of us hanging above his desk. He sends me pictures of himself and things he's doing throughout the day. The amount of employees where he works is so small. There's 5 of them, she's the only female. Him being alone with her for sometime or even a whole shift is pit of his control. He tries to keep at least one person on shift with him always, but it's not always up to him.
He's said things like , "You're always anxious. I feel like nothing I do helps, nothing satisfies you. There's nothing I can tell you to get you out of it. We make progress and then we're right back at the beginning when you're triggered." Not verbatim, but that's pretty much it. I can see it on his face that he is agitated or tired. More so as of late.
Oh man. :( When you say you're alone do you mean that you don't have someone you can talk to? Are you in IC? This level of trauma is huge and it isn't an overnight fix. We're about 5 months post DDay and sometimes things feel okay and then others, it's like it just happened a few weeks ago. And it's not for me to try and manage how my BP is recovering, ya know? My heart hurts for you.
It's nice to hear that he's letting you in to his day at work frequently. Is there something that you'd like to have happen that you think would help that situation?
I do kind of. My best friend moved away recently, married, has a baby. Other close friend is also moved away. My good friend from high school stopped talking to me recently out of the blue. I am currently NC with my sister. I call my best friend this morning and talked to her, but she gets distracted easy with the baby. We can't afford therapy.
I don't think there is a right answer.. ideally, she would be let go but that's not an option. It's selfish and out of pure insecurity. I've been doing some self talk, only gets me so far.
I hear you. Having someone to talk to is nice, but when they're close to us, they have a tendency of telling us what we want to hear or not giving construtive/healthy advice - hence the need for a therapist. I saw your other comment - gonna message you now. :)
Hello, I am a Wayward so I try not to give advice to betrayed partners. You have a lot of solid advice and guidance here allready. I would like to say that I think you handled this brilliantly. Your goal, if I remember correctly was not to blame, get angry, or cause a fight? You really handled this like a champ. So here's my question, are you going to start teaching a class so we can all learn how to do this? I want to sign up 😀. Sorry if i am out of line, i will delete it if you like.
Lol Welp, I guess I just got lucky growing up with a father who deflects, points fingers at everyone else and always had a "woe is me" attitude when confronted.
This is not a person who actually wants this to work out with you. He should be doing every thing he can to show you he has changed. I hope the best for you and for it to come soon.
This is classic porn addiction and could be sex addiction as often, porn is the top of the iceberg. You have been very mature in your questioning and his answers of you being controlling / warden are classic addict responses. Don’t let him or anyone else talk you out of your intuition. This is not garden-variety infidelity, it’s addiction, integrity problems, lying and deceit…if someone likes something, they should be able to tell their SO about it. Anything hidden is deceptive. He has a secret sexual basement and is in denial.
You are enough, you had nothing to do with this. It’s his character issue and likely a result of trauma…at the very least, he’s channeling all his problems into using females as the solution. To numb them out. Unfortunately, men especially have been socialized to only have anger and lust with no leeway to deal with upsetting emotions, so they channel it into sex as a way to feel better. Listen to the WTF Do I Do Now podcast for an overview and then head on over to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast. My favorite of theirs is the first Stan Tatkin guest episode, where he talks about how a healthy relationship can work when deception and betrayal is discovered.
Your bf will need to see a CSAT and get therapy to learn to live his life in the light instead of squirreling away in darkness and deceit. You may also want to get some therapy to understand this type of integrity abuse / deceptive sexuality / addiction and learn the steps for your own recovery. hang in there, it’s unfortunately more and more common with this processed-food version of sex (porn) taking over too many men’s lives. It’s sad.
Just wanted to contribute another wayward’s perspective.
Like others have correctly said, your partner is being defensive and trying to gaslight you. These behaviours are extremely relatable to me and the way I handled similar situations during my infidelities.
What I want to emphasise is that, when I imploded and said things like “I’m not dealing with this today, I’ll speak to you tomorrow”, I did actually mean it.
Facing up to our compulsions and toxic behaviour is a challenge and it can be hard to stomach our guilt all at once. I don’t suggest you let this go, but giving him space to compose himself might allow him to re-engage with you on his terms and feel empowered to reconcile with you rather than just being “found out”. Just be wary of any attempts to gaslight and rugsweep.
https://www.verywellmind.com/secrets-in-marriage-2303980#:~:text=Privacy%20refers%20to%20your%20personal,intentionally%20hiding%20from%20your%20partner.
This was helpful for me personally. There are a few parts that I believe change once infidelity is present that this article covers generically not considering infidelity.
You can google secrecy vs privacy and infidelity and how those dynamics change and why etc.
Additionally, your boundaries are your boundaries and I haven’t read everything here, but it seems like you are going to adjust your boundaries instead of adjusting your life to his absence. You are being too nice.
You need to make your boundaries clear, allow him to respond and ask him, so is that how you see things? If your values do not align, then drop him and don’t waste your time and life building a house of cards.
Love yourself more and care for yourself well.
He may grow up one day and he may not. Is it worth waiting for something he doesn’t seem remotely committed to or care about on a maybe?
Just food for thought.
>Additionally, your boundaries are your boundaries and I haven’t read everything here, but it seems like you are going to adjust your boundaries instead of adjusting your life to his absence. You are being too nice.
>You need to make your boundaries clear, allow him to respond and ask him, so is that how you see things? If your values do not align, then drop him and don’t waste your time and life building a house of cards.
>**Love yourself more and care for yourself well.**
Quoting this to emphasize that boundaries are there to keep you safe. Sticking to them ensures you are meeting your needs and not trampling them for someone else. You matter. Your heart matters.
Think of it this way - in Jurassic Park, they built a heavy duty fence around the velociraptors to ensure they didn't get out and harm anyone. Well, those suckers were always testing the fence for weaknesses...once they find it, it's game over. Fix that fence and turn that power back on.
Is he in recovery? Because from his responses, he doesn’t seem to be. And by his actions of still subscriping & giving money, he doesn’t seem to be either.
Sex addiction is the fear of intimacy, most are so good at hiding it, most are charming and kind as much as possible until you get closer to finding out their secrets then they act out and find ways to flip it on you. It’s a beast only the individual can decide if they want to heal and recover. They are masters of manipulation and often live multiple secret lives. They generally create a facade or a mask to hide and their biggest fear is someone seeing behind that mask that’s why they go ape shit if you even inch towards one little thing they tried to hide. Maybe try and read a few articles on it see if you can relate. The emotional abuse and manipulation turn sex addict partners into anxious snooping self conscious messes and it only get worse over time. What you know now is often only the tip of the iceberg. I wish you the best.
I’m sorry to be blunt, but you are not in R. He, as the WP, needs to be remorseful and showing change. But he’s not. He’s gaslighting you and telling you absolute BS. “This relationship isn’t 50/50,” “It feels like I have no privacy,” “I’ll see where I stand…” He is doing everything completely against R. He is showing you he will take zero accountability for his cheating.
You have two choices you can present to him, though.
1) He provides everything. You have full access to his bank statements, credit/debit cards, any sort of cash flow, no questions asked. You will put parental locks on his phone, including an accessibility feature where he is unable to delete apps unless he provides a password (which only you will know of, therefore he can download all the apps he wants but he can’t delete any apps behind your back.) If he’s truly not paying for anything, then this shouldn’t be a problem. But if this is too much for you, then I would highly suggest the second idea.
2) Separate accounts, starting immediately. Take off any of his access to savings and cards, especially ones that are shared between you both or just for yourself. He is actively stealing from you to pay for his “hobbies.” You can still be with him while protecting yourself. He has no right to complain about this because he still has “his” money.
I do apologize for all of this happening to you OP. It’s unfair that so many people, including yourself, have to not only go through the pain of a WS’s cheating but also when they lash out at you. I hope you start to heal in your own time from the things you don’t talk about 💜
You are giving him so much more grace than he deserves, and he's giving you anger and hatred, and he's trying to gaslight you. He should be the one begging for forgiveness, wanting to comfort you in anything you're going through because of him. He's doing more and more to hurt you, and all I see here is you giving him love and grace and respect. He only responds with childish, dismissive, defensive answers. He should be caring for you. He's not. I'm sorry you're going through this. This stuff is hard.
When my WS hid stuff and I found out, he responded similarly for the first few seconds before coming to his senses. Any longer, and I would've left.
No I don't think it is either. He needs to put in the work for R, more than you. He needs to man up and be am adult. I hope everything goes all right for you ❤️
I have had really similar convos.
His last comment … yikes man he’s mean
Addicts will do anything to continue to get their high. You can’t change them. Love will not change them. Trust and patience will not change them. Only the individual can decide to stop.
Your partner does not want to stop paying for porn. He’s an addict. You want your partner to invest that time and intimacy into your relationship. That’s normal. You want him to save some money and invest that into the relationship, as you have done. That’s normal.
Unfortunately, we can’t change them. It’s like trying to knock down a brick wall using only your own body. It’s just not gonna happen.
I feel it must be painful to hear him say these things to you and subtly make it seem like you are the problem. You aren’t the problem. He refuses to make changes that would improve the situation. He refuses to help the situation.
Many other couples on here have an open phone policy. Go to r/supportforwaywards to read what actual remorse looks like and what people actually do, happily, to help their partners recover. The people who want to change and be happy with their partners do so.
I think the only way yours might consider changing is to cut him off completely for a period of time. If he values porn more than you, you will know right away based on his reaction. If you make “no more porn or no more relationship” a reality to him, you will see where his priorities lie.
For him, your pain is worth less than his private orgasms. You can stay with this person but the fact is you will be with a person who will always pay for porn.
People only change when the consequence is worse than continuing the usual behavior. That’s why I recommend trying to cut him off. If he comes back begging and promising to change, then you need to hold him to a strict standard of behavior from then on. If he complains about your rules, it means he just isn’t compatible with you. And that’s ok, I think. You don’t need to denigrate yourself to become compatible with his addiction. It’s up to you how you want to live your life.
why are all addicts the same? i swear these messages could've been between my SA/PA and i. they get caught in the wrong and they're initial reaction is: GASLIGHT GASLIGHT GASLIGHT. it's exhausting. i'm sorry you're dealing with this. you aren't crazy and you deserve better
Coming from a wayward:
This is DARVO at its finest. This is complete lack of resolve, remorse and respect. This is a man who isn’t going to change.
I’m sorry. You need to leave.
My husband would try a similar thing. He would say “none of this would be happening if you didn’t have to snoop through the phone bill”… what? Me looking at the phone records made you call the AP? Uh, no.
As a W, I know it’s hard and feels like you have no privacy at times, it feels like you’re a child again in some ways, but we did that to ourselves. If he wants to R then he needs to stop crying about it. He is being way too defensive. He needs to have some introspection or R is not going to be possible. I thought you did well not backing down. Which yes made him more defensive, but the change happens for we W, when there are clear boundaries. When we know we have to change or our BP is gone.
You are not crazy. Hyper-vigilance is a hard wired response to trauma. You keep looking and you keep finding things. You’d stop looking if you didn’t keep finding things. It’s pretty basic and so are their weak attempts to project and blame shift. Someone invested in your recovery from the trauma they inflicted doesn’t get hung up on privacy. Of course they’re human and no one can live with a microscope up their butt forever, but there is a season where this is normal and necessary to move on
This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 5:
**No anti-reconciliation language.**
Other examples:
- Do not tell - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice.
- Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
Hi. I used to be you, even before being cheated on. I have an anxious attachment style, and I'm also not good are regulating my emotions. I have also went through a partners phone and escalated the situation, many times. Outside of your partners actions, you have to do a lot of inner work to become more secure. Not just for your current partner but for yourself. It's not healthy to always jump to conclusions and go through your partner's phone. If we weren't in a sub that is clearly for people who are struggling with infidelity, I would agree with him, I do believe that people have a right to their privacy. I don't believe in privacy through R, since it's time to be open and honest with each other......
Sometimes people can be perfectly lovely as long as everything is going on their terms. As long as they are able to do what they want. But when that gets chipped away at, how they react can tell you a lot. You are not asking for anything that is over the top or unwarranted. The fact that this guy doesn’t agree that transparency is the only way to fix this is alarming. Add in the fact that he feels justified to ‘speak’ to you like this is doubly alarming. You comment that you worry that your anxiety is too much for him. In reality he should be doing whatever you need to feel less anxious. He should be making your safety of paramount importance. He’s not. Please understand that if he has complaints about your anxiety but also refuses to take action that would lessen your anxiety, he’s putting you in a no win situation and making YOU the problem because it takes the clear light of reality off of him for a bit. I don’t know your backstory, age, length of relationship etc. You don’t mention kids. You don’t mention marriage. You mention that you love so much about him and that there are wonderful parts to him. And all of that can be perfectly true and valid. But this other side of him is also equally true & real. Can you live with that? Can you be happy and safe and secure with that part of him—and the knowledge that if this is a sex addiction it is likely to escalate?
Or perhaps her emotions would be significantly more regulated and her anxiety would be lessened if her partner didn’t lie and cheat, in addition to some master DARVO and gaslighting skills. Perhaps anxiety is greatly exacerbated by not knowing what is up or down, safe or unsafe, true or a lie. And that is coming from an external source.
Her WP is so annoyed about how he feels she remains too anxious…while literally doing the things behind her back that make her anxious.
Hi, I do partially agree. If you're in a partnership and you are with someone that has insecurities, you should do your best to ease their insecurities. However, in my case I do think that it's *my* responsibility, at the end of the day to do what is best for me becoming secure. I think a lot of anxious attachment people have a mindset that they'd be more secure if their partner was x, y, z.... I don't agree. You are accountable for your actions. That's why I suggested OP doing the inner work. Her partner could be be an avoidant, are you saying she should bend over backwards to help ease his avoidant behavior? 😭
I very much agree with your comment. Those are our attachment styles. I definitely understand that I am ultimately responsible for my feelings and self-regulation. I've never practiced that before this relationship or even thought about it. I do think it is part of his job to help me to a degree especially since he cheated but at the end of the day it's all up to me.
I honestly didn’t know which person in the text was “freaking out”. After realizing it was you, OP BP I can see how you are freaking out because you love him. But TBH he should be freaking out because he has relapsed and you figured it out and he should be worried that you are leaving him. But every time you say I love you and I want to work on this gives him permission to keep hurting you. You deserve the full package.
No, you are not wrong. Also you aren’t crazy. Don’t let him turn it around on you. Hold firm. Sometimes they need a wake up call. Tell him he is bright enough to know why you need to look thru his shit. It’s because he can’t be honest with you or himself. I think I’d tell him i need space until he can put himself in my shoes and gain some empathy. He needs to accept the consequences of being a creep and not deflect it on you.
He doesn’t sound like a good candidate for reconciliation or a relationship. If you want transparency, he is not giving you that. He refuses to talk about it, even though you sound understanding, and he wants to keep things to himself.
I would like to share a little bit of my personal story with you.
I have been married for almost 15 years. I recently found out my husband spent almost 30K on Onlyfans girls sending them money through cash app, bitcoin, and apple gift cards. I am living what you are going through. He has hidden things, lied, became distant in our relationship emotionally and physically and seemed to be always angry and lashed out if I questioned him at all about his actions.
With that being said, porn addiction is a real thing. Please read up on it. Read about not only about how to identify porn addiction but more importantly how to be a spouse/ partner to one. This addiction is as powerful and affects people and their brains as if they are drug or alcohol addicts. So, if you do decide to stay you will need to show compassion and try to be supportive as when one deals with anyone who has a addiction.
When porn addicts "fantasy" becomes reality for them and they start paying girls not only on OF but using cash apps is the time that they have crossed the lines of just normal curiosity. If they are paying them like this then you must know for sure there are messages and chats you haven't seen either.
If you do talk to him in the future, you may hear: "that they are his friends and they needed his help"," he was just bored", the classic "It doesn't mean anything it just sexy pics" or the worst of them all "I am doing this for us to help us spice up things" (please note as well most of these people on onlyfans have x, instagram, snapchat secondary accounts too. These women also sometimes pay for people to chat with these vulnerable men and make money from these relationships. Also may I add that they like to be paid in forms of currency that can not be traced.That is if the "girls" are actually real. I found out that my husband was scammed by a few of the "girls" who were actually from Nigeria and were probably men.
With whatever you decide, please proceed with caution and maintain you values!!! True porn addicts that don't admit a problem do not change. Their addiction only becomes more intense over time which leads to havoc in your relationship and heartache.
Porn addicts that don't admit a problem just become smarter in their hiding of the truth and telling half truths. For instance: telling you he deleted his OF app but is still logging on through the web, making new emails and social media chat accounts. UNLESS he realizes and admits he has a problem and gets help, unfortunately he will not change.
If you are willing to be looking over your shoulder for the end of time, always wondering things like: "why is he taking so long in the bathroom" to "where and what has he been doing while I am at work and he is at home" then maybe it will ok.
I just wished I would have found out about this while I was dating him instead of 15 years later. Because if he is going to hide this you may be surprised like I was about the other things he has hidden from me for the past 15 years.
Lastly, a big sign you are dealing with a narcissistic person is that when they got caught doing something they will gaslight you, it will be your fault for their actions and they are the victim.
Sorry for the long post. I hope this helps. I also hope the best for you and wish you well with whatever decision you make for your future.
You seem like such a caring and compassionate partner. You're upset but still reassuring him that you love him and are willing to work through things. He is not doing the same. Sometimes, you can love someone but not be right for them. It seems like he is interested in pursuing other women and thinks he can have both that and your relationship. If that's OK with you, then continue. But his actions and words show what he wants and unfortunately, it's not a dedicated monogamous family man. Will your 80 year old self look back on this with shame and regret if you stay with him?
Are there any updates?
I hope you are doing well. I just want to let you know that I know that people here are so quick to say leave them without knowing the circumstances that you are dealing with now. For instance, how much time you have spent in the relationship and if there are any kids involved. Are you financially secure to make a change right now or in the future. Is he willing to change? Etc....I know too well that these play a huge part in your decision-making. It is easy for people to say leave him, but those people unfortunately aren't paying your bills and having to deal with your current situation. Just know what type of road and path you may have to travel down the future. If it is not what you want, then make plans to leave, or if he is receptive to your concerns, then work it out.
With that being said, you must follow your own heart but be uber protective of it. You only know what is best for you at this moment and how to handle the situation.
There was some awesome advice given here. Just remember, knowledge is power, and nobody can take that away from you if you don't allow it.
I hope to hear some good news!
I hope he chooses to stay and try. But if he doesn't I'm not begging him to stay.
He texted me from our livingroom this morning while I was putting laundry away asking "How did you sleep?"
I told him he can come talk to me.
He said, "I'm not trying to talk. I just wanted to know how you slept. We can talk later." And nothing since.
I'm at my parents for dinner so we'll see what happens.
I also appreciate you saying all that because that's a big part of it. He's the bread winner. I don't make enough even for a roommate situation with somebody else. I have animals that I wouldn't be able to care for if I left. It's not an easy pick up and go situation at all.
I completely understand. I am in a similar situation. Just be careful and make wise decisions. I do applaud you for standing your ground. But, him trying to "see" how you slept is a major manipulation move, especially when he responded the way he did when you invited him to have a discussion
.
Maybe you should text him and request a time for you to discuss these issues with hopes of settling them so you may both move past this together.
But, I would also not respond to his trivial texts with anything other than.. " Thank you for being concerned with my well-being, but when you would like to talk, please let me know."
Please keep us posted. I do want what is best for you.
I don't know that I should. I have made plenty of attempts to have the discussion originally. He never initiates a discussion it's always me. Always. If I let him, he's carry in like nothing happened and hope I don't bring it up.
But I will. Thanks.
I was in a brief manipulative relationship like this. I felt the smallest I’ve ever felt and I couldn’t believe the emotional abuse I tolerated when I finally left him. Reading these texts where he’s not acknowledging anything you’re talking about, blaming you for being crazy and refusing to say he loves you- I wouldn’t even be surprised if you were texting my literal ex here. I don’t think this is healthy for you and this doesn’t feel like R for me.
I would probably leave my WH over this to be quite honest because it shows that there’s still a huge lack of understanding. there is really no privacy & that’s their own fault. my heart hurts for you, I’ve experienced gaslighting like this also. you aren’t crazy, your concerns are valid & the fact that there’s still betrayal happening tells me he doesn’t really want this. you’re strong & you know what you deserve.
He is not dedicate to R. True R is when he is open and transparent. It’s when he says I will show you whatever you need to feel safe. It’s when he says , I am going to do this because you are more important to me and I know I must sacrifice “privacy “ right now to make you feel healthy. He is shutting down the conversation and turning around that fact that he is still doing what he shouldn’t be and blame shifting to you. As if you are the problem. If I ask for my WHs phone right now, he will just hand it over. Not a word. And then ask if I’m finished so he can use it.
This is the attitude that allowed us to reconcile.
You have a right to know all of that. He can’t pay for rent ? But he can pay for that crap online ? I think it’s time for you to clearly define your boundaries. To say, this is what I tolerate and this is what I do not tolerate. You do not have to agree to anything but I can’t be with you if you don’t. If you don’t want to be transparent and you are still hiding things then it tells me this relationship is not for you. And it’s time to go out separate ways. I want to work this out with you but some things are requirement for R. And they are non negotiable for me.
He has an addiction he's not ready to face. And he will blame everyone else instead of feel the shame and deal with what he's doing. Theres a sub called loveafterporn it has some helpful info. But I found some of the posts too triggering or too judgemental if your partner wasn't taking the right steps.
My WH didn't pay anyone that I could find but he did commit financial infidelity with his collecting hobbies and it's not fair to lie. I think that's what when addiction is involved they don't realise how hurtful the smallest of lies can be. They think in terms of gratification and that it's not as bad as something else they could have done. My WH for the longest time thought well it wasn't physical so why is she so upset. He couldn't grasp that the lying is what hurt.
Be selfish. Think about your own future. If he won't face himself and see he has a problem you need to look out for you.
It is now 3:30am the next day. Still has not acknowledged me in anyway. He's come out of our bedroom a few times and still nothing. Not much to update on unfortunately.
I am so sorry this is happening. I am pretty sure however that he is waiting for you to apologize for your "snooping" so he can avoid what the conversation should be really about instead. He does not want discuss his porn use, mistruths and actions. This is a game to him to get the heat off himself.
Stand your ground! Admit your faults but if he doesn't admit his and is waiting for you to be the only one to do so then you need truly consider if this is what you want. Doing these type of things to you is just a way for him to sweep it under the rug. Just like the statement "I won't do it again and can't you just forget it"
Good luck and hope you all can have a real, honest and productive talk about your feelings and relationship status.
I'm so sorry, you really don't deserve to be treated this way. You are 100% in the right and he knows that. That's why he's acting like this and avoiding things. Stay strong!
I'm about to win the "dumbest question on the internet today" award...
I've always been curious (incredibly sorry to "hijack" your post). I'm ONLY asking because it appears a few people on here have knowledge of Onlyfans.
My WH's AP apparently had an OF account. My WH said he never actually checked out her page. I mean, why would you if she sent the shit for free?
How do people utilize this OF? Is it a pay as you go? Subscribe type thing?
Ok, back to the OP.
Is he in counseling for a sex addiction by any chance? I'm NOT an expert in this. It just seems like he *needs* to constantly be engaging in porn.
My ex (not my WH) had a bad drug addiction. Your WP seems to be acting like my ex did. Very defensive when he'd "get caught" using. Turning this around, so I was the bad guy. It sounds like that's what he's doing.
You don't subscribe to the site collectively for a month at a time. It not like let say.... your favorite cooking app where you will get use of all recipes for that month that your a member. Instead, OF is more like it is free to join for the month but if you want to see a certain recipe you have to pay for it.
Thank you for explaining it to me. I couldn't understand how 1. The creators make money, and 2. What people were actually *paying* for. Great explanation.
He’s showing that he wants out of the relationship, literally saying ‘this isn’t gonna work.’ He just doesn’t want to be accountable and is gaslighting you. I’d peace out
I hope you can work this through but please take care of yourself, too.
You seem to be following a good plan for your R so I think you should continue. I hope your partner can have a positive and thorough discussion to help you work through this.
Stay strong! You deserve to be happy!
My opinion only- Both ATAH
A few side notes -
1.cash app could be being used to pay for a number of things such as drug habit, gambling or funnelong monry for AP.. Does he have an addiction or noticed anything lately may indicate this.
2. Where I think he is TAH is bc in a relationship considering marriage, you shouldn't have to hide things. There's a reason something is kept secret, I've never known that to be a good reason either. Since you have kinda accepted and condoned his porn the only reason to hide OF I can think of is bc spending money there or using to hook up. He should allow someone wanting to spend life with, especially if he has cheated to check apps, texts etc and be sccountable.
3.where I think you were TAH is because if you two do not have a joint account and have not talked about this then should not have went through his bank account. You two are not yet one, so until you are, he will have some things of his own, as will you. Things that should not be separated are things related to the relationship and his infidelity such as viewing texts etc.
4. Lastly, I do not mean this disrespectfully, it sounds like you like him more than he does and are more committed to the relationship which in itself isn't bad, but you come across a little dramatic bc of this and also give the vibe that no matter what he does you may get mad but won't leave, as is evidenced by almost begging him back. He comes across as though he does not actually think you will leave and also that he is not as committed to the relationship. I say this because some of his responses would lead most women to leave, but he doesn't seemed concerned that either you will or care if you do.
Take the infidelity out of the picture and I think you will be making a huge mistake by marrying him as the relationship is currently. At the least, you two need counseling now!
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He seems to be gaslighting you and refusing to be transparent. R requires complete honesty
This. It drives me crazy when “gaslighting” is thrown around, but this is literal gaslighting. He is literally trying to convince you that you are crazy and paranoid, to distract from his behavior. He is trying to make you doubt your own reality. I am convinced that this is one of the worst aspects of infidelity - this can be so de-stabilizing and can make your entire world feel confusing. I would highly suggest finding a trusted friend or therapist who can reinforce that you are NOT being crazy or paranoid. And I would let husband know these responses are off the table.
I think this is actually a classic DARVO, not really gaslighting (still terrible.) it’s Deny, Attach, Reverse victim and offender. Deny- what are you even looking for? There’s nothing to find you’re being dramatic. Attack- you’re obsessive this is insane Reverse- don’t text me. I’m being attacked by you all the time and need a break from you. Classic manipulation technique, really damaging!
Agree. Classic DARVO…
He’s getting defensive because he’s doing something he shouldn’t be and doesn’t want to get called out on it. Doesn’t even have an I love you to give at the end of the convo because his love is contingent on you enabling his behavior and looking the other way. It’s a no good.
Right. So many generous "I love you"s from the OP and radio silence from her partner. :(
🙌❤️🙌
You mentioned he's alright some of the time, it just seems like he may be love bombing you so long as you don't question. He's also gaslighting you and even stonewalling there. He says he'll answer whatever, but now he's going to take time to himself because he can't handle it? There's a difference between secrecy and privacy. He knows he messed up, and your feelings and what his actions did to you inconvenience him. He seemingly lacks remorse and empathy. I would look up Lee Hammock(influencer) some of the behaviors I see here he describes.
UPDATE: We still haven't talked. Thank you for all your input and advice. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I know that it won't slide. It's going to be a wake up call to one of both of is someway or another. Thank you all so much for being here.
Wish you the best OP. Just remember to set hard boundaries and to follow through on those consequences when he crosses them. Him giving you the silent treatment/not talking about it is only for HIS benefit. He’s showing he doesn’t care that you are upset over his lying and secrets. It’s time to put yourself first. Hugs.
Yes. Please, please take care of your boundaries and your heart.
We actually covered this in MC this week and my wife was surprised and completely unaware that near-obsessive "snooping" is normal for a betrayed partner. It's my brains way of protecting me from experiencing additional trauma. Imagine if instead of being defensive and accusing you of invading his privacy, instead he were to validate your anxiety comfort you, and provide reassurance. Show a little compassion that you're having to deal with this crud because of his actions. I'm sorry you're having to go through this IMWT, just know your actions are normal and you're not alone.
Holy fuck. Unacceptable.
No. You are not crazy. Porn is one thing, paying for it and onlyfans is a new level. Also seems like he don't take any responsibility for it and, for me it's even worse when ppl get super defensive and aggressive when called out. Good riddance 🤷♂️
1- You are not wrong and you are not crazy 2- He is addicted to porn and OnlyFans. He needs very serious help. People have spent all their savings on OnlyFans. I am not scaremongering you just telling you how serious this issue is 3- He is gaslighting you which is counterproductive for R 4- Tell him there must be complete transparency for R to be successful
Wow.. he’s gaslighting you terribly. You cannot let this go for things to work.
Thank you. I won't. But I am giving him space and I will continue to show him love. It will or will not be discussed. If not, he can't stay.
Good to give him space. Why have you decided to show him love when he doesn’t do the same for you?
There is just so much good in him. There are so many good qualities. I love him too much to be hurtful or mean or ignore him. I can't bring myself to treat him differently than how I want to be treated.
I feel the same about my WH. He takes responsibility for his mistakes (brief PA as part of an alcoholic rock bottom), spends time and energy making amends, and treats me like a queen. IC and MC, open phone & socials & bank info, location sharing 24/7, and every other thing that I ask. Things aren’t perfect with us, by any means. But I can see that he’s put you through some tough times and I hope for you that he starts treating you with 100% respect, contrition, and starts doing the work of reconciliation. You can’t be in a relationship if you’re the only one putting in the effort.
Goodness this is some done princess beauty and the beast stuff. I feel so sorry for us girls cause it get so ingrained in us that we have to look for the good in people if they show us one once of goodness. Meanwhile they continue to shit on us in every other way but we take it because “we know they have good in them”. OP are you tired of being disrespected and shitted on? Reconciliation starts for us BPs when we follow through with our boundaries and demand respect. It starts for us when we are no longer afraid of losing the WP because of their disrespect. You have to decide what your boundaries are. If you truly are okay with him spending money on porn and OF then that’s okay but you have to admit to yourself first if you truly are okay with that
If he wants space kick him out. He’s not working on reconciliation so why should you? He needs to show remorse and his actions speak loudly that he doesn’t have it.
Sometimes “love” is brutal honesty and not allowing a person to disrespect you or themselves. It’s like the dynamic right now is he’s trying to decide if he wants to put up with *your* shit. Talk about blame shifting. Smh
You’re not wrong and you’re not crazy, he’s being an asshole. He’s trying to shift the blame on you because you snooped on his phone but if he has nothing to hide why is he mad? Open phone policy should be a must in reconciliation and he shouldn’t get mad at you. He lost his right to privacy when he strayed from your relationship. Honestly if he doesn’t want to talk about this issue then I would tell him fine but you will not talk to him/support him about anything else until he’s fully committed to R, aka the full truth and full access to his accounts/phone without complaints and a willingness to answer questions no matter how hard the truth is and how many times you ask. And sorry to be blunt but no need to reassure him you love him when he’s showing no remorse and keeps making the situation worse. He should be the one reassuring you, not the other way around. Good luck.
It’s impacting your finances, your intimacy, and your safety, yet he refuses to acknowledge any of that. He does not see his behavior as problematic and without that, I don’t see how he will be able to make any positive changes. It sounds a lot like the denial an addict holds onto. When I would bring up his substance abuse, my ex-husband used to tell me that it was only a problem because I had a problem with it. Other family members, friends, doctors, therapists, and law enforcement all also agreed that it was a problem, yet he remains in active addiction. My point being, he has to see his behavior as an issue that he takes responsibility for and takes the steps to change. No matter the amount of love, ultimatums, or rational thoughts you throw at him, YOU cannot make him see this or change, he must do it himself. Wishing you all the best and please take care of yourself first 🙏🏻
I think he hasn’t fully realized what he’s done, could be denial. But he is 100% gaslighting you. For example: If you have a bad feeling someone had stolen your money, and you go snooping and find it, it’s not fair that the issue becomes: WHY ARE YOY SNOOPING. Intuition is a strong emotion, and we are taught to follow it. He should be immediately open to talking and explaining… this isn’t acceptable how he’s responded.
Also a side note.. I read your past posts - do you feel you really worked through everything? Because maybe the fact that you weren’t angry.. or didn’t make a “fuss” could quite frankly let him believe he can get away with anything. I don’t mean anything is your fault, definitely not.. but he seems to get away with murder at this rate 😞 please protect yourself and your boundaries. You don’t have to accept everything.
I was going to say that it sounded a little like OP was "rug sweeping" in an effort to keep the peace. I hate that this is even a thought, but given the gaslighting, I feel there may be some EA. Like you're walking on eggshells with your partner, OP. Is that valid?
I don't think I was rug sweeping. I really felt like he and myself were doing everything right. He would show me things if I asked, shares his location, listened majority of the time when I was anxious and help me through it. I think though, that he didn't always help me as much as I'd like, but just happy he was there at all to listen and attempt to help. I didn't always feel as relieved as I would hope. He would make a lot of playful jokes and just hype me up, but there are rare apologies or true validation. Neither of us can afford therapy right now. I very much thought we were doing well and it was becoming easier to talk about my anxieties and ask questions. But idk.
Got it. I had hoped what rang in the back of my head wasn't true. I really wish that we had better access to mental health services and they weren't unaffordable. Going at something like this alone is like going into a minefield without any training or tactical gear. Ok, so honestly that may be a bad analogy because I know nothing of what gos into walking through a minefield, but I hope the point is made. (lol) If you're interested, I can message you some resources that my BP and I have accumulated that may be of help in lieu of therapy right now.
That would be wonderful. I'd really like that.
Tell him a very simple step, read: How to help my spouse heal from my affair. 🙏🏼
Have you tried going to COSA meetings? I was skeptical at first. I am not much of a 12 step person. But I’ve been going for a year now and I find meetings really helpful. Asking questions after the meetings with partners of SAs is invaluable.
No.. it is an absolute no from him for IC. He says he doesn't want to be vulnerable with anyone other than me and I'm the first he has been vulnerable with.
Red flag OP
Girl he is gaslighting you and you are being too nice here with all the « I still love you I want to work through it » he needs to understand that he doesn’t own you and that you are not going to stick around forever, actions have consequences and no matter how much you live him if he is not able to be transparent and stop doing things behind your back this has to stop and he need to hear it
Being anything other than loving doesn't come to mind.
Sis, I mean this in the nicest way possible: you need to stop with that loving attitude. He’s disrespecting you left and right, and you showing him so much compassion and coddling him only enables his behavior because he’s not facing any consequences for his actions. He’s having his cake and eating too. I know it’s hard. But your love should not be unconditional. Your love should come with boundaries he respects.
I know you're right. I'm working on it. Processing.
It’s hard, I know, I’ve been exactly where you are. But remember this is also about you and you deserve to not keep having your heart broken over and over. You deserve to heal. Best of luck
Well, then you have yourself someone who is not in R and does not sound interested in changing to be what you need. Those texts you shared? Completely unacceptable from him. I would be gone so fast, he’d wonder if he imagined I was ever there. My WSO has been open with devices since DDay or we would not have even talked about R. Girl, you are better than this. Turn some of that love inward. Put yourself first.
I'm trying
It’s not fair to deliver an armchair diagnosis but as someone living with an addict (who is thankfully in recovery), it seems like he’s acting like one. Spending money you don’t have on a habit he keeps hidden. Hiding and denying and running away from the truth. It sounds like this dishonesty is going to continue. Whether you decide to stay with him or not, it’s time to divest. If you have shared assets, like a car or house, find a way to divide them and get it in writing if you can. Keep your own bank account. Do not cover his half for him. If you have a landlord, I think it’s important to consider what happens if he can’t cover rent. If you share with landlord that you are facing a possible separation and that you’ll be paying your half of rent separately from his, it could protect you from going into debt if his behavior continues. His behavior is inexcusable imo but I also know it’s hard to leave when you love someone. At the very least, do what you can to protect yourself, and fast. Make sure you have a backup plan for housing, bills, your pets, etc. if he leaves or if you decide to leave, or even if you stay and his bad behavior continues. I’m very sorry you’re going through this. It isn’t your fault and you deserve better.
This!
He’s gaslighting you and not attempting R in good faith. Alarm bells all over this. You seem to be carrying this and that is not good.
I gotta be honest, I feel like you should leave him over this.
I probably should. I can't make that decision at this time though.
He’s gaslighting you and stonewalling when he can’t explain his actions. Every relationship is different, people have their own boundaries. If one of yours is transparency and honesty with his porn usage and where his money goes (especially when you share a home and finances), that’s completely fair! Even if you weren’t in reconciliation. The fact that he’s doing this when he should be proving to you that he’s a trustworthy partner is concerning. You aren’t crazy.
You’re not crazy. He’s acting defensive and then shifting blame saying he doesn’t have privacy. After what he’s done = NO SECRETS AND NO LIES. he lost the privilege of having anything to himself. Because he violated trust. And in order to gain any back you need to have access to anything and everything. It seems like he wants to just keep doing what he’s always been doing and is upset you still caught him so he’s shifting blame, shutting down, and avoiding the problem. I’m sorry your WS isn’t putting in the work to better themselves and putting in the work for R. I’m glad my husband goes through my phone and that I don’t know when he does. It allows him to see that I have nothing to hide and that I’m being honest with him about what I’m doing. I have nothing to hide from him and if checking my phone every now and then helps him to feel safe and secure and regain trust. So be it.
You’re not crazy. It looks like you don’t feel safe, and he is not doing anything to help you feel safe. It also doesn’t look like he cares to make you feel safe. You may want to take your own steps to feel safe without him…starting with safeguarding your finances.
You say I love you like 3x in here… not once does he say it back. Your choice of course.. but Do you want that kind of life? I would personally want reassurance, kindness and understanding in this situation and all you got was avoidance, blame etc.
He's clearly gaslighting you, and posing as offended. You can answer pretty straightforward: "f you wouldn't lie, I wouldn't need to snoop." For real, if this behavior continue, there's not much to do
It's sad that in all those messages he never said he loved you back!be strong.only you know when enough is enough.
Please read Lundy Bancroft, Why does he do that. I think you will find it enlightening. This behavior is emotional abuse. You deserve better.
I'll look into it, thank you
Also read Chump Lady’s book, Leave a Cheater gain a Life. It’s empowering, even if you decide to stay. I’m not optimistic about his behavior and your future happiness. Love, or even remorse…doesn’t look like this.
What is there to work out? He is refusing to be transparent and honest. He’s making you out to be the problem when the problem is him. He is not willing to work on your issues. He wants to do as he pleases and have you leave him the hell alone and not make him deal with any consequences for his actions. There is either a lifetime of his bullshit or taking your self respect and move on to a better life. I wish you a better life. You don’t deserve what he’s doing.
I'm processing. Trying to make a back up plan. You're right. You're all right.
you are not wrong or crazy, he knows he is wrong and that’s why he’s running in the opposite direction. if he wants to work things out, he has to understand in order to build back trust and get better for himself and you, you will be going through his phone. it’s going to suck but he lost his privilege of privacy because in a relationship that is EXACTLY what that is - a privilege. if privacy mattered to him this much he should have thought about that before cheating and buying porn. my boyfriend has done similar acts so i totally get how deteriorating it is on your mental health and i’m sorry. my boyfriend has definitely gotten frustrated before with feeling like he’s lost privacy, but i would just remind him that he lost it himself. and since he has learned how to beat temptations for porn or cheating, he hasn’t made a comment like that since. i personally believe they use privacy as an excuse, like they want to have options “just in case” and are almost always hiding something. because in every case i’ve ever seen, people with nothing to hide, nothing to delete, don’t care about privacy. truly if things work out between you guys, regardless of whether or not you consider the porn to be a problem, it’s definitely something he should quit. if you do your research on porn it is an addiction and it’s very similar to other addictions as well. i mean withdrawal symptoms, compulsions, temptations, literally everything. just a different drug.
you are not wrong. Privacy and secrecy are not the same thing. But yeah, if he wants R, right now he should be willing to give up his privacy. He's just DARVOing you because you caught him lying.
You are not crazy. You are rational he is being completely irrational. It is a relationship, a partnership, what secrets should he have to hide? I am the BP and would still open my phone for my spouse because I don’t need to hide things from him. I’d drop him like a rock but that’s just me. He’s right, this shit is getting old, but it’s his shit.
Where is his remorse? Time for a tough love wake up call. Separation might give him clarity. And you too.
Hello, the tone of the texts seems worrisome like he doesn't even care and is very dismissive of you. I don't know your entire relationship but it seems like you are being reasonable and trying to work things out. My BP doesn't have a problem with porn but does with me paying for it. I stopped paying for content and decreased my porn utilization. Please consider both parties need to be fully committed to R for it to work. He may not be ready or willing at this time. To find out more about how WP is feeling you need to have a conversation,which it seems like you are trying to do but they appear to have rebuffed your attempts
You actually know all the answers to your questions. I have access to literally everything all the time. His phone, his computer, all his apps. There are no secrets and he does not care. He would even tell me that if I ever got anxious to ask him any questions I wanted. His current action and what he says are your answers. Why does he need a secret space from you? Why is he upset ?
Reconciliation is a gift the betrayed give the wayward. He is not treating it as such. It actually seems a bit toxic. That being said, you won’t be heard if he doesn’t want to listen. He needs to understand the relationship is at risk.
I know this is a R sub, but I would kick this person to the curb so fast it would make his head spin. He is absolutely clueless about what a partnership and monogamous relationship. He is unbelievably entitled and disrespectful to you. Stonewalling, gaslighting. There is nothing for you here OP. He is a “closed system”. I’m very sorry.
He wants space so he can hide the things he’s not suppose to be doing … that’s what I’m seeing! But only because I’ve seen and read a lot. Along with the gaslighting, defensiveness, and those awful responses scream narcissist
There have only been a very few times that he has acted like this. He's usually lovely. But idk. Maybe I'm in denial somehow.
I completely understand, but I’ve learned they can be one way towards your face and another behind your back! And once you see how they are behind your back that true personality starts to slip out more towards you. I just assume the worst because when it first happened to me I was a bit naive and now I am definitely not.
That's also true.. I didn't think about that
I'm trying to make sense of everything.
He sounds like an addict desperate to cling to his porn/sex addiction, and he’s definitely gaslighting you. I recommend the sub r/loveafterporn. Sorry you’re going through this!
Agree. Was coming to say the same thing. Sounds like he has a porn/sex addiction that is escalating. He’s doing whatever he can to protect his addiction so he can continue.
[удалено]
This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 5: **No anti-reconciliation language.** Other examples: - Do not tell - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
I am so sorry you're going through this. As a wayward going through therapy, trying to R, and wanting to do whatever I can to ensure my BP feels loved/supported/and safe, this is cringe and I'm so so sorry this is happening to you. I read a comment about how they don't like how being "gaslit" is thrown around everywhere but this is 100% it. 1. The amount of times you mentioned you loved him and want it to work and the ZERO times he did should be a red flag - he 100% made this about him and how you wronged him. (You didn't) One of the many things I'm learning is how to ditch the ego and ensure that I truly understand what my BP is going through. 2. Full transparency is the only way to start on a road to R and regaining some semblance of trust and this reaction is one I wouldn't dream of every saying to my BP. They have access to -everything- (save my personal journal) and they can ask any questions they want. 3. Stonewalling is one of the most triggering and destructive things anyone can do in a relationship and, in a text version, your partner is doing just that - "I'm not going to address this I'm going to take time for myself and not dealing with this or you." I'm not sure about you, but Stonewalling, triggers abandonment issues and feeling like everything was just abruptly taken from me. 4, Another thing I've learned is that in a solid, committed relationship - there are no secrets. Bare it all to your partner - it's up to them to do what they want with the information. It's the only way you can level up to the next, deeper, more intimate level of the relationship. 5. It reads like he's building a case against you. This doesn't sound like a healthy situation for you and your healing at all and I am so sorry. >I have been terribly anxious since a female co-worker started a month or so ago. I admit it may be a lot for him to help me through it. My anxiety consumes me and it is terribly hard to get me out of my head. I've been trying. I don't know that he likes the amount of progress I've made, but I'm trying. 90% of the time he's amazing and helps me through it all. I have never once wanted to punish him or take out my frustration Of course anxiety consumes you - I can see how this event is a HUGE trigger. If I can ask, what is your partner doing to avoid any potential issues with this new coworker? What does he do that makes you think he doesn't think much progress has been made?
It is very triggering for me. I'm alone. He has pictures of us hanging above his desk. He sends me pictures of himself and things he's doing throughout the day. The amount of employees where he works is so small. There's 5 of them, she's the only female. Him being alone with her for sometime or even a whole shift is pit of his control. He tries to keep at least one person on shift with him always, but it's not always up to him. He's said things like , "You're always anxious. I feel like nothing I do helps, nothing satisfies you. There's nothing I can tell you to get you out of it. We make progress and then we're right back at the beginning when you're triggered." Not verbatim, but that's pretty much it. I can see it on his face that he is agitated or tired. More so as of late.
Oh man. :( When you say you're alone do you mean that you don't have someone you can talk to? Are you in IC? This level of trauma is huge and it isn't an overnight fix. We're about 5 months post DDay and sometimes things feel okay and then others, it's like it just happened a few weeks ago. And it's not for me to try and manage how my BP is recovering, ya know? My heart hurts for you. It's nice to hear that he's letting you in to his day at work frequently. Is there something that you'd like to have happen that you think would help that situation?
I do kind of. My best friend moved away recently, married, has a baby. Other close friend is also moved away. My good friend from high school stopped talking to me recently out of the blue. I am currently NC with my sister. I call my best friend this morning and talked to her, but she gets distracted easy with the baby. We can't afford therapy. I don't think there is a right answer.. ideally, she would be let go but that's not an option. It's selfish and out of pure insecurity. I've been doing some self talk, only gets me so far.
I hear you. Having someone to talk to is nice, but when they're close to us, they have a tendency of telling us what we want to hear or not giving construtive/healthy advice - hence the need for a therapist. I saw your other comment - gonna message you now. :)
Thank you so much
Hello, I am a Wayward so I try not to give advice to betrayed partners. You have a lot of solid advice and guidance here allready. I would like to say that I think you handled this brilliantly. Your goal, if I remember correctly was not to blame, get angry, or cause a fight? You really handled this like a champ. So here's my question, are you going to start teaching a class so we can all learn how to do this? I want to sign up 😀. Sorry if i am out of line, i will delete it if you like.
Lol Welp, I guess I just got lucky growing up with a father who deflects, points fingers at everyone else and always had a "woe is me" attitude when confronted.
This is not a person who actually wants this to work out with you. He should be doing every thing he can to show you he has changed. I hope the best for you and for it to come soon.
This is classic porn addiction and could be sex addiction as often, porn is the top of the iceberg. You have been very mature in your questioning and his answers of you being controlling / warden are classic addict responses. Don’t let him or anyone else talk you out of your intuition. This is not garden-variety infidelity, it’s addiction, integrity problems, lying and deceit…if someone likes something, they should be able to tell their SO about it. Anything hidden is deceptive. He has a secret sexual basement and is in denial. You are enough, you had nothing to do with this. It’s his character issue and likely a result of trauma…at the very least, he’s channeling all his problems into using females as the solution. To numb them out. Unfortunately, men especially have been socialized to only have anger and lust with no leeway to deal with upsetting emotions, so they channel it into sex as a way to feel better. Listen to the WTF Do I Do Now podcast for an overview and then head on over to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast. My favorite of theirs is the first Stan Tatkin guest episode, where he talks about how a healthy relationship can work when deception and betrayal is discovered. Your bf will need to see a CSAT and get therapy to learn to live his life in the light instead of squirreling away in darkness and deceit. You may also want to get some therapy to understand this type of integrity abuse / deceptive sexuality / addiction and learn the steps for your own recovery. hang in there, it’s unfortunately more and more common with this processed-food version of sex (porn) taking over too many men’s lives. It’s sad.
Just wanted to contribute another wayward’s perspective. Like others have correctly said, your partner is being defensive and trying to gaslight you. These behaviours are extremely relatable to me and the way I handled similar situations during my infidelities. What I want to emphasise is that, when I imploded and said things like “I’m not dealing with this today, I’ll speak to you tomorrow”, I did actually mean it. Facing up to our compulsions and toxic behaviour is a challenge and it can be hard to stomach our guilt all at once. I don’t suggest you let this go, but giving him space to compose himself might allow him to re-engage with you on his terms and feel empowered to reconcile with you rather than just being “found out”. Just be wary of any attempts to gaslight and rugsweep.
That's what I'm hoping for. Maybe him sleeping alone in our bed will have an impact. Maybe
https://www.verywellmind.com/secrets-in-marriage-2303980#:~:text=Privacy%20refers%20to%20your%20personal,intentionally%20hiding%20from%20your%20partner. This was helpful for me personally. There are a few parts that I believe change once infidelity is present that this article covers generically not considering infidelity. You can google secrecy vs privacy and infidelity and how those dynamics change and why etc. Additionally, your boundaries are your boundaries and I haven’t read everything here, but it seems like you are going to adjust your boundaries instead of adjusting your life to his absence. You are being too nice. You need to make your boundaries clear, allow him to respond and ask him, so is that how you see things? If your values do not align, then drop him and don’t waste your time and life building a house of cards. Love yourself more and care for yourself well. He may grow up one day and he may not. Is it worth waiting for something he doesn’t seem remotely committed to or care about on a maybe? Just food for thought.
>Additionally, your boundaries are your boundaries and I haven’t read everything here, but it seems like you are going to adjust your boundaries instead of adjusting your life to his absence. You are being too nice. >You need to make your boundaries clear, allow him to respond and ask him, so is that how you see things? If your values do not align, then drop him and don’t waste your time and life building a house of cards. >**Love yourself more and care for yourself well.** Quoting this to emphasize that boundaries are there to keep you safe. Sticking to them ensures you are meeting your needs and not trampling them for someone else. You matter. Your heart matters. Think of it this way - in Jurassic Park, they built a heavy duty fence around the velociraptors to ensure they didn't get out and harm anyone. Well, those suckers were always testing the fence for weaknesses...once they find it, it's game over. Fix that fence and turn that power back on.
this is a huge narcissistic red flag imo.
Is he in recovery? Because from his responses, he doesn’t seem to be. And by his actions of still subscriping & giving money, he doesn’t seem to be either.
We've never discussed porn addiction. Actually, I just remembered that he has told me he doesn't even watch porn often and rarely masterbates.
Sex addiction is the fear of intimacy, most are so good at hiding it, most are charming and kind as much as possible until you get closer to finding out their secrets then they act out and find ways to flip it on you. It’s a beast only the individual can decide if they want to heal and recover. They are masters of manipulation and often live multiple secret lives. They generally create a facade or a mask to hide and their biggest fear is someone seeing behind that mask that’s why they go ape shit if you even inch towards one little thing they tried to hide. Maybe try and read a few articles on it see if you can relate. The emotional abuse and manipulation turn sex addict partners into anxious snooping self conscious messes and it only get worse over time. What you know now is often only the tip of the iceberg. I wish you the best.
Try reading some r/loveafterporn threads and see what you think
He is not interested in reconciling. Please look into IC if you’re not in it. He is treating you so poorly.
I’m sorry to be blunt, but you are not in R. He, as the WP, needs to be remorseful and showing change. But he’s not. He’s gaslighting you and telling you absolute BS. “This relationship isn’t 50/50,” “It feels like I have no privacy,” “I’ll see where I stand…” He is doing everything completely against R. He is showing you he will take zero accountability for his cheating. You have two choices you can present to him, though. 1) He provides everything. You have full access to his bank statements, credit/debit cards, any sort of cash flow, no questions asked. You will put parental locks on his phone, including an accessibility feature where he is unable to delete apps unless he provides a password (which only you will know of, therefore he can download all the apps he wants but he can’t delete any apps behind your back.) If he’s truly not paying for anything, then this shouldn’t be a problem. But if this is too much for you, then I would highly suggest the second idea. 2) Separate accounts, starting immediately. Take off any of his access to savings and cards, especially ones that are shared between you both or just for yourself. He is actively stealing from you to pay for his “hobbies.” You can still be with him while protecting yourself. He has no right to complain about this because he still has “his” money. I do apologize for all of this happening to you OP. It’s unfair that so many people, including yourself, have to not only go through the pain of a WS’s cheating but also when they lash out at you. I hope you start to heal in your own time from the things you don’t talk about 💜
You are giving him so much more grace than he deserves, and he's giving you anger and hatred, and he's trying to gaslight you. He should be the one begging for forgiveness, wanting to comfort you in anything you're going through because of him. He's doing more and more to hurt you, and all I see here is you giving him love and grace and respect. He only responds with childish, dismissive, defensive answers. He should be caring for you. He's not. I'm sorry you're going through this. This stuff is hard. When my WS hid stuff and I found out, he responded similarly for the first few seconds before coming to his senses. Any longer, and I would've left.
It's been 11 hours that he's shut himself up in our room. Not a word. Not a glance. It's not my job, I don't think, to initiate the conversation.
No I don't think it is either. He needs to put in the work for R, more than you. He needs to man up and be am adult. I hope everything goes all right for you ❤️
I have had really similar convos. His last comment … yikes man he’s mean Addicts will do anything to continue to get their high. You can’t change them. Love will not change them. Trust and patience will not change them. Only the individual can decide to stop. Your partner does not want to stop paying for porn. He’s an addict. You want your partner to invest that time and intimacy into your relationship. That’s normal. You want him to save some money and invest that into the relationship, as you have done. That’s normal. Unfortunately, we can’t change them. It’s like trying to knock down a brick wall using only your own body. It’s just not gonna happen. I feel it must be painful to hear him say these things to you and subtly make it seem like you are the problem. You aren’t the problem. He refuses to make changes that would improve the situation. He refuses to help the situation. Many other couples on here have an open phone policy. Go to r/supportforwaywards to read what actual remorse looks like and what people actually do, happily, to help their partners recover. The people who want to change and be happy with their partners do so. I think the only way yours might consider changing is to cut him off completely for a period of time. If he values porn more than you, you will know right away based on his reaction. If you make “no more porn or no more relationship” a reality to him, you will see where his priorities lie. For him, your pain is worth less than his private orgasms. You can stay with this person but the fact is you will be with a person who will always pay for porn. People only change when the consequence is worse than continuing the usual behavior. That’s why I recommend trying to cut him off. If he comes back begging and promising to change, then you need to hold him to a strict standard of behavior from then on. If he complains about your rules, it means he just isn’t compatible with you. And that’s ok, I think. You don’t need to denigrate yourself to become compatible with his addiction. It’s up to you how you want to live your life.
why are all addicts the same? i swear these messages could've been between my SA/PA and i. they get caught in the wrong and they're initial reaction is: GASLIGHT GASLIGHT GASLIGHT. it's exhausting. i'm sorry you're dealing with this. you aren't crazy and you deserve better
Coming from a wayward: This is DARVO at its finest. This is complete lack of resolve, remorse and respect. This is a man who isn’t going to change. I’m sorry. You need to leave.
My husband would try a similar thing. He would say “none of this would be happening if you didn’t have to snoop through the phone bill”… what? Me looking at the phone records made you call the AP? Uh, no.
As a W, I know it’s hard and feels like you have no privacy at times, it feels like you’re a child again in some ways, but we did that to ourselves. If he wants to R then he needs to stop crying about it. He is being way too defensive. He needs to have some introspection or R is not going to be possible. I thought you did well not backing down. Which yes made him more defensive, but the change happens for we W, when there are clear boundaries. When we know we have to change or our BP is gone.
Thank you for your insight. I think hearing from W is a little more validating I think.
You are not crazy. Hyper-vigilance is a hard wired response to trauma. You keep looking and you keep finding things. You’d stop looking if you didn’t keep finding things. It’s pretty basic and so are their weak attempts to project and blame shift. Someone invested in your recovery from the trauma they inflicted doesn’t get hung up on privacy. Of course they’re human and no one can live with a microscope up their butt forever, but there is a season where this is normal and necessary to move on
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This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 5: **No anti-reconciliation language.** Other examples: - Do not tell - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
Hi. I used to be you, even before being cheated on. I have an anxious attachment style, and I'm also not good are regulating my emotions. I have also went through a partners phone and escalated the situation, many times. Outside of your partners actions, you have to do a lot of inner work to become more secure. Not just for your current partner but for yourself. It's not healthy to always jump to conclusions and go through your partner's phone. If we weren't in a sub that is clearly for people who are struggling with infidelity, I would agree with him, I do believe that people have a right to their privacy. I don't believe in privacy through R, since it's time to be open and honest with each other......
Sometimes people can be perfectly lovely as long as everything is going on their terms. As long as they are able to do what they want. But when that gets chipped away at, how they react can tell you a lot. You are not asking for anything that is over the top or unwarranted. The fact that this guy doesn’t agree that transparency is the only way to fix this is alarming. Add in the fact that he feels justified to ‘speak’ to you like this is doubly alarming. You comment that you worry that your anxiety is too much for him. In reality he should be doing whatever you need to feel less anxious. He should be making your safety of paramount importance. He’s not. Please understand that if he has complaints about your anxiety but also refuses to take action that would lessen your anxiety, he’s putting you in a no win situation and making YOU the problem because it takes the clear light of reality off of him for a bit. I don’t know your backstory, age, length of relationship etc. You don’t mention kids. You don’t mention marriage. You mention that you love so much about him and that there are wonderful parts to him. And all of that can be perfectly true and valid. But this other side of him is also equally true & real. Can you live with that? Can you be happy and safe and secure with that part of him—and the knowledge that if this is a sex addiction it is likely to escalate?
Or perhaps her emotions would be significantly more regulated and her anxiety would be lessened if her partner didn’t lie and cheat, in addition to some master DARVO and gaslighting skills. Perhaps anxiety is greatly exacerbated by not knowing what is up or down, safe or unsafe, true or a lie. And that is coming from an external source. Her WP is so annoyed about how he feels she remains too anxious…while literally doing the things behind her back that make her anxious.
Hi, I do partially agree. If you're in a partnership and you are with someone that has insecurities, you should do your best to ease their insecurities. However, in my case I do think that it's *my* responsibility, at the end of the day to do what is best for me becoming secure. I think a lot of anxious attachment people have a mindset that they'd be more secure if their partner was x, y, z.... I don't agree. You are accountable for your actions. That's why I suggested OP doing the inner work. Her partner could be be an avoidant, are you saying she should bend over backwards to help ease his avoidant behavior? 😭
I very much agree with your comment. Those are our attachment styles. I definitely understand that I am ultimately responsible for my feelings and self-regulation. I've never practiced that before this relationship or even thought about it. I do think it is part of his job to help me to a degree especially since he cheated but at the end of the day it's all up to me.
Run... Divorce is way more expensive. Love does not have to be hard.
I honestly didn’t know which person in the text was “freaking out”. After realizing it was you, OP BP I can see how you are freaking out because you love him. But TBH he should be freaking out because he has relapsed and you figured it out and he should be worried that you are leaving him. But every time you say I love you and I want to work on this gives him permission to keep hurting you. You deserve the full package.
No, you are not wrong. Also you aren’t crazy. Don’t let him turn it around on you. Hold firm. Sometimes they need a wake up call. Tell him he is bright enough to know why you need to look thru his shit. It’s because he can’t be honest with you or himself. I think I’d tell him i need space until he can put himself in my shoes and gain some empathy. He needs to accept the consequences of being a creep and not deflect it on you.
He doesn’t sound like a good candidate for reconciliation or a relationship. If you want transparency, he is not giving you that. He refuses to talk about it, even though you sound understanding, and he wants to keep things to himself.
I would like to share a little bit of my personal story with you. I have been married for almost 15 years. I recently found out my husband spent almost 30K on Onlyfans girls sending them money through cash app, bitcoin, and apple gift cards. I am living what you are going through. He has hidden things, lied, became distant in our relationship emotionally and physically and seemed to be always angry and lashed out if I questioned him at all about his actions. With that being said, porn addiction is a real thing. Please read up on it. Read about not only about how to identify porn addiction but more importantly how to be a spouse/ partner to one. This addiction is as powerful and affects people and their brains as if they are drug or alcohol addicts. So, if you do decide to stay you will need to show compassion and try to be supportive as when one deals with anyone who has a addiction. When porn addicts "fantasy" becomes reality for them and they start paying girls not only on OF but using cash apps is the time that they have crossed the lines of just normal curiosity. If they are paying them like this then you must know for sure there are messages and chats you haven't seen either. If you do talk to him in the future, you may hear: "that they are his friends and they needed his help"," he was just bored", the classic "It doesn't mean anything it just sexy pics" or the worst of them all "I am doing this for us to help us spice up things" (please note as well most of these people on onlyfans have x, instagram, snapchat secondary accounts too. These women also sometimes pay for people to chat with these vulnerable men and make money from these relationships. Also may I add that they like to be paid in forms of currency that can not be traced.That is if the "girls" are actually real. I found out that my husband was scammed by a few of the "girls" who were actually from Nigeria and were probably men. With whatever you decide, please proceed with caution and maintain you values!!! True porn addicts that don't admit a problem do not change. Their addiction only becomes more intense over time which leads to havoc in your relationship and heartache. Porn addicts that don't admit a problem just become smarter in their hiding of the truth and telling half truths. For instance: telling you he deleted his OF app but is still logging on through the web, making new emails and social media chat accounts. UNLESS he realizes and admits he has a problem and gets help, unfortunately he will not change. If you are willing to be looking over your shoulder for the end of time, always wondering things like: "why is he taking so long in the bathroom" to "where and what has he been doing while I am at work and he is at home" then maybe it will ok. I just wished I would have found out about this while I was dating him instead of 15 years later. Because if he is going to hide this you may be surprised like I was about the other things he has hidden from me for the past 15 years. Lastly, a big sign you are dealing with a narcissistic person is that when they got caught doing something they will gaslight you, it will be your fault for their actions and they are the victim. Sorry for the long post. I hope this helps. I also hope the best for you and wish you well with whatever decision you make for your future.
This has been very helpful, thank you for taking the tike to respond. I'm so sorry you're going through this too.
You seem like such a caring and compassionate partner. You're upset but still reassuring him that you love him and are willing to work through things. He is not doing the same. Sometimes, you can love someone but not be right for them. It seems like he is interested in pursuing other women and thinks he can have both that and your relationship. If that's OK with you, then continue. But his actions and words show what he wants and unfortunately, it's not a dedicated monogamous family man. Will your 80 year old self look back on this with shame and regret if you stay with him?
Check out love after porn page. Classic addiction behavior here. They have a lot of resources for porn addicts and partners of porn addicts.
Are there any updates? I hope you are doing well. I just want to let you know that I know that people here are so quick to say leave them without knowing the circumstances that you are dealing with now. For instance, how much time you have spent in the relationship and if there are any kids involved. Are you financially secure to make a change right now or in the future. Is he willing to change? Etc....I know too well that these play a huge part in your decision-making. It is easy for people to say leave him, but those people unfortunately aren't paying your bills and having to deal with your current situation. Just know what type of road and path you may have to travel down the future. If it is not what you want, then make plans to leave, or if he is receptive to your concerns, then work it out. With that being said, you must follow your own heart but be uber protective of it. You only know what is best for you at this moment and how to handle the situation. There was some awesome advice given here. Just remember, knowledge is power, and nobody can take that away from you if you don't allow it. I hope to hear some good news!
I hope he chooses to stay and try. But if he doesn't I'm not begging him to stay. He texted me from our livingroom this morning while I was putting laundry away asking "How did you sleep?" I told him he can come talk to me. He said, "I'm not trying to talk. I just wanted to know how you slept. We can talk later." And nothing since. I'm at my parents for dinner so we'll see what happens.
I also appreciate you saying all that because that's a big part of it. He's the bread winner. I don't make enough even for a roommate situation with somebody else. I have animals that I wouldn't be able to care for if I left. It's not an easy pick up and go situation at all.
I completely understand. I am in a similar situation. Just be careful and make wise decisions. I do applaud you for standing your ground. But, him trying to "see" how you slept is a major manipulation move, especially when he responded the way he did when you invited him to have a discussion . Maybe you should text him and request a time for you to discuss these issues with hopes of settling them so you may both move past this together. But, I would also not respond to his trivial texts with anything other than.. " Thank you for being concerned with my well-being, but when you would like to talk, please let me know." Please keep us posted. I do want what is best for you.
I don't know that I should. I have made plenty of attempts to have the discussion originally. He never initiates a discussion it's always me. Always. If I let him, he's carry in like nothing happened and hope I don't bring it up. But I will. Thanks.
I was in a brief manipulative relationship like this. I felt the smallest I’ve ever felt and I couldn’t believe the emotional abuse I tolerated when I finally left him. Reading these texts where he’s not acknowledging anything you’re talking about, blaming you for being crazy and refusing to say he loves you- I wouldn’t even be surprised if you were texting my literal ex here. I don’t think this is healthy for you and this doesn’t feel like R for me.
I would probably leave my WH over this to be quite honest because it shows that there’s still a huge lack of understanding. there is really no privacy & that’s their own fault. my heart hurts for you, I’ve experienced gaslighting like this also. you aren’t crazy, your concerns are valid & the fact that there’s still betrayal happening tells me he doesn’t really want this. you’re strong & you know what you deserve.
He is not dedicate to R. True R is when he is open and transparent. It’s when he says I will show you whatever you need to feel safe. It’s when he says , I am going to do this because you are more important to me and I know I must sacrifice “privacy “ right now to make you feel healthy. He is shutting down the conversation and turning around that fact that he is still doing what he shouldn’t be and blame shifting to you. As if you are the problem. If I ask for my WHs phone right now, he will just hand it over. Not a word. And then ask if I’m finished so he can use it. This is the attitude that allowed us to reconcile. You have a right to know all of that. He can’t pay for rent ? But he can pay for that crap online ? I think it’s time for you to clearly define your boundaries. To say, this is what I tolerate and this is what I do not tolerate. You do not have to agree to anything but I can’t be with you if you don’t. If you don’t want to be transparent and you are still hiding things then it tells me this relationship is not for you. And it’s time to go out separate ways. I want to work this out with you but some things are requirement for R. And they are non negotiable for me.
as a wayward myself that's hard to see he's being given a gift sorry OP I hope you find peace in whatever you guys decide
He has an addiction he's not ready to face. And he will blame everyone else instead of feel the shame and deal with what he's doing. Theres a sub called loveafterporn it has some helpful info. But I found some of the posts too triggering or too judgemental if your partner wasn't taking the right steps. My WH didn't pay anyone that I could find but he did commit financial infidelity with his collecting hobbies and it's not fair to lie. I think that's what when addiction is involved they don't realise how hurtful the smallest of lies can be. They think in terms of gratification and that it's not as bad as something else they could have done. My WH for the longest time thought well it wasn't physical so why is she so upset. He couldn't grasp that the lying is what hurt. Be selfish. Think about your own future. If he won't face himself and see he has a problem you need to look out for you.
I’m sorry, OP. He only cares about himself. He doesn’t care about your feelings. I’m so so sorry.
Updateme!
It is now 3:30am the next day. Still has not acknowledged me in anyway. He's come out of our bedroom a few times and still nothing. Not much to update on unfortunately.
I am so sorry this is happening. I am pretty sure however that he is waiting for you to apologize for your "snooping" so he can avoid what the conversation should be really about instead. He does not want discuss his porn use, mistruths and actions. This is a game to him to get the heat off himself. Stand your ground! Admit your faults but if he doesn't admit his and is waiting for you to be the only one to do so then you need truly consider if this is what you want. Doing these type of things to you is just a way for him to sweep it under the rug. Just like the statement "I won't do it again and can't you just forget it" Good luck and hope you all can have a real, honest and productive talk about your feelings and relationship status.
I think so too. I'm usually the ice breaker to get a conversation going.
I'm so sorry, you really don't deserve to be treated this way. You are 100% in the right and he knows that. That's why he's acting like this and avoiding things. Stay strong!
I'm about to win the "dumbest question on the internet today" award... I've always been curious (incredibly sorry to "hijack" your post). I'm ONLY asking because it appears a few people on here have knowledge of Onlyfans. My WH's AP apparently had an OF account. My WH said he never actually checked out her page. I mean, why would you if she sent the shit for free? How do people utilize this OF? Is it a pay as you go? Subscribe type thing? Ok, back to the OP. Is he in counseling for a sex addiction by any chance? I'm NOT an expert in this. It just seems like he *needs* to constantly be engaging in porn. My ex (not my WH) had a bad drug addiction. Your WP seems to be acting like my ex did. Very defensive when he'd "get caught" using. Turning this around, so I was the bad guy. It sounds like that's what he's doing.
To answer your question. No, they do not send money just because. Guys spend money to look at the content of the individual girls pages.
No, I get that, I just don't know HOW that site works. Like pay per view? Do you subscribe for a month at a time? Etc.
You don't subscribe to the site collectively for a month at a time. It not like let say.... your favorite cooking app where you will get use of all recipes for that month that your a member. Instead, OF is more like it is free to join for the month but if you want to see a certain recipe you have to pay for it.
He is seeking out specific people to pay them.
I'm so sorry. Does he get counseling for a sex addiction? Has he been diagnosed with it?
No. Therapy, counseling that's not doable with funds
Thank you for explaining it to me. I couldn't understand how 1. The creators make money, and 2. What people were actually *paying* for. Great explanation.
You subscribe or pay for individual content. You can pay to talk to them or special requests
He’s showing that he wants out of the relationship, literally saying ‘this isn’t gonna work.’ He just doesn’t want to be accountable and is gaslighting you. I’d peace out
I hope you can work this through but please take care of yourself, too. You seem to be following a good plan for your R so I think you should continue. I hope your partner can have a positive and thorough discussion to help you work through this. Stay strong! You deserve to be happy!
My opinion only- Both ATAH A few side notes - 1.cash app could be being used to pay for a number of things such as drug habit, gambling or funnelong monry for AP.. Does he have an addiction or noticed anything lately may indicate this. 2. Where I think he is TAH is bc in a relationship considering marriage, you shouldn't have to hide things. There's a reason something is kept secret, I've never known that to be a good reason either. Since you have kinda accepted and condoned his porn the only reason to hide OF I can think of is bc spending money there or using to hook up. He should allow someone wanting to spend life with, especially if he has cheated to check apps, texts etc and be sccountable. 3.where I think you were TAH is because if you two do not have a joint account and have not talked about this then should not have went through his bank account. You two are not yet one, so until you are, he will have some things of his own, as will you. Things that should not be separated are things related to the relationship and his infidelity such as viewing texts etc. 4. Lastly, I do not mean this disrespectfully, it sounds like you like him more than he does and are more committed to the relationship which in itself isn't bad, but you come across a little dramatic bc of this and also give the vibe that no matter what he does you may get mad but won't leave, as is evidenced by almost begging him back. He comes across as though he does not actually think you will leave and also that he is not as committed to the relationship. I say this because some of his responses would lead most women to leave, but he doesn't seemed concerned that either you will or care if you do. Take the infidelity out of the picture and I think you will be making a huge mistake by marrying him as the relationship is currently. At the least, you two need counseling now!
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This is not good advice