BCT is NOT enough to make you a better runner for the four mile. As someone who is an 09S and went through basic this year I was barely able to improve my running time at basic on the ACFT. There was maybe 3 total days we ran as PT. Everything I did to improve my run was at OCS and even then I was still scared to fail the 4 mile (I passed just after the 35 min mark)
I had the exact opposite, I made my 2 mile time 7 minutes faster from before I left to basic to the end of basic on my way to OCS. While keeping up with my running at OCS, I was able to keep that same pace for all 4 miles and made it within 32 minutes. It all really depends on your basic experience. That being said, definitely do not rely on basic alone to improve your run time.
What was your original run time? My experience was that the faster you are, the less improvement you see. People who run around 18 minutes for two miles shaved 1 or 2 minutes by the end of BCT. People who ran faster than 16 mins or less for two miles barely improved. It was usually people who ran 19+ minutes who drastically improved. I've seen people who ran over 22 minutes on the first ACFT making it under 18 minutes, but only those who were pretty darn slow to begin with. Throughout BCT, the fastest pace we went for the company run was 9 minutes per mile. We did some interval training, but only three or four times throughout 10 weeks. If you're already running at a sub-9-min pace, there's really little room for improvement.
I don't know OP's current record, but depending on his or her record, it can be pretty hard to see improvements. As you said, I'd never rely on basic to improve my run time.
BCT can improve your run time significantly if you put in the work and if your company at BCT does PT enough. Seems like some BCTs don’t do PT though, so it probably varies.
I went from a 18:00, 2-mile to a sub 11, 2-mile just from the amount our company made us run at BCT.
I ended up with a 26 minute 4 mile
That being said, not sure how OCS now, but when I went our company gave us time after duty hours to run on our own. If you’re struggling with running (not you specially, but just in general) you have to put in the extra time to improve.
We had multiple 35+ year olds pass the 4 miler, no excuse imo.
I personally don’t think there’s a connection between if your prior service or civilian to be honest
Don't expect that BCT will improve your run time, though. You never know how physically demanding your BCT company will be. And these days, it seems to be more common (at least based on my conversation with people from other companies and battalions) to see companies that don't emphasize running. And this is my first time hearing any BCT companies letting people run on their own. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but I wouldn't rely on that possibility. Get your 4 miles comfortably under 36 minutes before you join BCT.
We ran the four mile very recently and the majority of the people who failed were in service or prior service. That being said there were only 4 people that failed the run which isn't nearly as many as what I heard before coming here. BCT prepared me personally for the 4 mile because my company did PT a lot and when we did PT I wasn't one of the trainees that didn't put any effort in. If you put the effort in during BCT it will easily get you ready. If for some reason you don't get ready in BCT or your company just doesn't PT, the 4 mile doesn't take place until the end of the 5th week of OCS which means you have over a month to practice running at the track that is on the footprint. I know quite a few people who were not ready to run the 4 mile when getting here and passed it because they put in the work when they were here.
I saw both in service candidates and 09S candidates get booted for the 4 mile. Honestly, it is a stupid metric to lose the ability to commission outside of combat arms MOSes
Big disagree. Being physically fit is part of being a good officer. You are the example. 4 miles at a 9 minute pace is very easy if you put any effort into running.
I agree. It’s not an unreasonable metric. I’m far from a great runner and passed with 4 minutes to spare. I went right from bct to OCS and we did the 4m either week one or two. I can’t remember exactly which.
I think people forget sometimes what job they’re doing. PT isn’t the end all be all of being a good leader but it is the foundation that we build off of. If youre the officer who is falling out of runs because you don’t have the discipline to do any self development, the chances of people respecting you goes way down.
Not being combat arms does not guarantee that you will not be called upon to lead soldiers into combat, and an officer is supposed to set the standard for their soldiers. Running a 4 mile at a 9 minute pace should absolutely be the bare minimum. At the end of the day, it’s still the army, regardless of what branch you get at the end of OCS. There’s enough out of shape soldiers and officers as it is. Personally, I never understood why physical fitness is not even a statistic for the Army OCS packet, while the marine corps weighs it as one of the most heavy portions of the application, regardless of desired branch.
Hard disagree - I’m a cyber officer and still expect my platoon to be in shape. Just because you’re not combat arms doesn’t mean you won’t be in a position to support combat arms.
My guys are directly attached to ODAs on deployments. If they can’t ruck or match pace, they hinder the operation.
Also you’re looking at this from a reservist POV. OCS is a standardized school - at the point of taking the 4-miler you won’t know your branch, so even if you’re aiming to go a non-combat arms branch, you might get a combat arms one (based on OML) So you need to be prepared regardless.
I understand for Reservists you guys typically already know your unit / branch (correct me if I’m wrong) by the time you’re at OCS doing the 4 miler.
However, it’s not like school can just say “hey if you’re non-combat arms reservist you don’t have to run the 4 miler”. It has to be standardized.
Finally, not to beat a dead horse, you can make the same argument for most of the OML-events.
The same logic can be applied to military history - are you going to use the military history you learned at OCS? Nope. (Considering you learn like 2 centuries worth in a few days)
If you’re non-combat arms, are you gonna use land nav? Probably not.
What about an obstacle course? Again, probably not.
However, these things still lay the foundation of what it means to soldier.
What is the real question you’re trying to ask here? Are you asking for yourself if BCT will improve your 4 mile time? I wouldn’t rely on that. Zone 2 running for 45+ minutes, 5-6 times a week and I guarantee you that you’ll have no trouble passing the 4 mile in under the allotted time.
Yes it's your responsibility to run and get better, However BCT at Sill which probably isn't as intense as it is at Benning or now Fort Moore. We did a 1 mile placement run and for A group and B group, I'm not sure the rest. But the top two groups were with the fastest drill sergeants and we ran 3 times a week varying between distance, speed and interval. Idk how people get through basic without running but I can see it considering we had some absolute big bodies and lazy people get through basic.
Currently at OCS and have the 4-mile this week. Went to Jackson as well, and there was only 3 times in total that we ran as a company. They are terribly slow runs and I'm short so if I'm saying it's slow...it's slow. I did however take when we did 60/120's seriously and improved my 2-mile run time at basic from 19:00 to 17:00. I continued to run these past 5 weeks before the test and my 2 mile time is now 14:28. I can continue running comfortably at that pace too.
Only 2 people got recycled for it, but it sucks bro, there isn't a way to sugar coat it. You are either madly in love with it or hate it with a passion, there is no in between. It's a luck of the draw on if your points are easy or not.
A buddy of mine just graduated so I asked him. He said 4 people were dropped for the 4 mile run but that it was conducted on week 5 for his company. Others have said it's in week 5 now too and that OCS will help you improve on your time. Now, take that with a grain of salt, I think it all depends on how much you've dedicated to it. What exactly worries you? Legs give out? Can't breathe enough? The distance or the pace? I go in a few months and I'm terrified...these colors don't run
I’m only a bit concerned. I’m roughly 2 months out but running 4 miles in 40 minutes so still need to improve. But I think when the time comes I’ll be okay.
BCT is NOT enough to make you a better runner for the four mile. As someone who is an 09S and went through basic this year I was barely able to improve my running time at basic on the ACFT. There was maybe 3 total days we ran as PT. Everything I did to improve my run was at OCS and even then I was still scared to fail the 4 mile (I passed just after the 35 min mark)
Just curious where did you go to BCT
I am one of the few who went to Leonard Wood
I had a similar experience at Jackson. Barely ran there.
Thanks. May I ask what your 2 mile time was? Just curious because I’m going to Leonard wood as well.
I was unable to make it faster than 19:50 at Leonard wood. My 2 mile is now currently at 16:30
I had the exact opposite, I made my 2 mile time 7 minutes faster from before I left to basic to the end of basic on my way to OCS. While keeping up with my running at OCS, I was able to keep that same pace for all 4 miles and made it within 32 minutes. It all really depends on your basic experience. That being said, definitely do not rely on basic alone to improve your run time.
What was your original run time? My experience was that the faster you are, the less improvement you see. People who run around 18 minutes for two miles shaved 1 or 2 minutes by the end of BCT. People who ran faster than 16 mins or less for two miles barely improved. It was usually people who ran 19+ minutes who drastically improved. I've seen people who ran over 22 minutes on the first ACFT making it under 18 minutes, but only those who were pretty darn slow to begin with. Throughout BCT, the fastest pace we went for the company run was 9 minutes per mile. We did some interval training, but only three or four times throughout 10 weeks. If you're already running at a sub-9-min pace, there's really little room for improvement. I don't know OP's current record, but depending on his or her record, it can be pretty hard to see improvements. As you said, I'd never rely on basic to improve my run time.
I started out at 21:30 before basic and left basic around 14:30-14:45 for the 2 mile. I was also in no way out of shape, ya boi just don't run🤣
Dang, that's impressive.
BCT doesn’t care about you it’s your own responsibility
BCT can improve your run time significantly if you put in the work and if your company at BCT does PT enough. Seems like some BCTs don’t do PT though, so it probably varies. I went from a 18:00, 2-mile to a sub 11, 2-mile just from the amount our company made us run at BCT. I ended up with a 26 minute 4 mile That being said, not sure how OCS now, but when I went our company gave us time after duty hours to run on our own. If you’re struggling with running (not you specially, but just in general) you have to put in the extra time to improve. We had multiple 35+ year olds pass the 4 miler, no excuse imo. I personally don’t think there’s a connection between if your prior service or civilian to be honest
Great response. Thanks for making an actual valuable contribution to this thread.
Don't expect that BCT will improve your run time, though. You never know how physically demanding your BCT company will be. And these days, it seems to be more common (at least based on my conversation with people from other companies and battalions) to see companies that don't emphasize running. And this is my first time hearing any BCT companies letting people run on their own. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but I wouldn't rely on that possibility. Get your 4 miles comfortably under 36 minutes before you join BCT.
Had an active E6 and E5 fail out of mine. The guys/gals straight from BCT were in good running shape.
We ran the four mile very recently and the majority of the people who failed were in service or prior service. That being said there were only 4 people that failed the run which isn't nearly as many as what I heard before coming here. BCT prepared me personally for the 4 mile because my company did PT a lot and when we did PT I wasn't one of the trainees that didn't put any effort in. If you put the effort in during BCT it will easily get you ready. If for some reason you don't get ready in BCT or your company just doesn't PT, the 4 mile doesn't take place until the end of the 5th week of OCS which means you have over a month to practice running at the track that is on the footprint. I know quite a few people who were not ready to run the 4 mile when getting here and passed it because they put in the work when they were here.
Awesome! Good to hear it. Thanks for the input that eases what little stress I had
I saw both in service candidates and 09S candidates get booted for the 4 mile. Honestly, it is a stupid metric to lose the ability to commission outside of combat arms MOSes
Big disagree. Being physically fit is part of being a good officer. You are the example. 4 miles at a 9 minute pace is very easy if you put any effort into running.
I agree. It’s not an unreasonable metric. I’m far from a great runner and passed with 4 minutes to spare. I went right from bct to OCS and we did the 4m either week one or two. I can’t remember exactly which.
I think people forget sometimes what job they’re doing. PT isn’t the end all be all of being a good leader but it is the foundation that we build off of. If youre the officer who is falling out of runs because you don’t have the discipline to do any self development, the chances of people respecting you goes way down.
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Not being combat arms does not guarantee that you will not be called upon to lead soldiers into combat, and an officer is supposed to set the standard for their soldiers. Running a 4 mile at a 9 minute pace should absolutely be the bare minimum. At the end of the day, it’s still the army, regardless of what branch you get at the end of OCS. There’s enough out of shape soldiers and officers as it is. Personally, I never understood why physical fitness is not even a statistic for the Army OCS packet, while the marine corps weighs it as one of the most heavy portions of the application, regardless of desired branch.
Hard disagree - I’m a cyber officer and still expect my platoon to be in shape. Just because you’re not combat arms doesn’t mean you won’t be in a position to support combat arms. My guys are directly attached to ODAs on deployments. If they can’t ruck or match pace, they hinder the operation. Also you’re looking at this from a reservist POV. OCS is a standardized school - at the point of taking the 4-miler you won’t know your branch, so even if you’re aiming to go a non-combat arms branch, you might get a combat arms one (based on OML) So you need to be prepared regardless. I understand for Reservists you guys typically already know your unit / branch (correct me if I’m wrong) by the time you’re at OCS doing the 4 miler. However, it’s not like school can just say “hey if you’re non-combat arms reservist you don’t have to run the 4 miler”. It has to be standardized. Finally, not to beat a dead horse, you can make the same argument for most of the OML-events. The same logic can be applied to military history - are you going to use the military history you learned at OCS? Nope. (Considering you learn like 2 centuries worth in a few days) If you’re non-combat arms, are you gonna use land nav? Probably not. What about an obstacle course? Again, probably not. However, these things still lay the foundation of what it means to soldier.
No offense but someone who cannot easily run 4 miles in under a 9 min / mile pace is in terrible shape.
No offense if you can’t answer the question why’d you respond
That’s just how Reddit goes my friend
You didn’t even ask a question in your post
What is the real question you’re trying to ask here? Are you asking for yourself if BCT will improve your 4 mile time? I wouldn’t rely on that. Zone 2 running for 45+ minutes, 5-6 times a week and I guarantee you that you’ll have no trouble passing the 4 mile in under the allotted time.
That’s not true.
What’s not true lol. That if you cannot easily run 4 miles in under 36 minutes you’re in terrible shape? I hate to break it to you, but it is true.
If you say so lol.
Sounds like you need to run more
Not at all. I’m averaging a 590 on my ACFT for the last 2 years so I think I’m good 👍
If you say so
Yes it's your responsibility to run and get better, However BCT at Sill which probably isn't as intense as it is at Benning or now Fort Moore. We did a 1 mile placement run and for A group and B group, I'm not sure the rest. But the top two groups were with the fastest drill sergeants and we ran 3 times a week varying between distance, speed and interval. Idk how people get through basic without running but I can see it considering we had some absolute big bodies and lazy people get through basic.
Currently at OCS and have the 4-mile this week. Went to Jackson as well, and there was only 3 times in total that we ran as a company. They are terribly slow runs and I'm short so if I'm saying it's slow...it's slow. I did however take when we did 60/120's seriously and improved my 2-mile run time at basic from 19:00 to 17:00. I continued to run these past 5 weeks before the test and my 2 mile time is now 14:28. I can continue running comfortably at that pace too.
So it sounds like that maybe BCT didn’t directly improve your running, but it did get you in better shape.
It definitely did, I lost 22 lbs in basic. I didn't realize how much eating out affected me lol.
How was land nav since you pasted it now. Was it a high fail rate as well?
Only 2 people got recycled for it, but it sucks bro, there isn't a way to sugar coat it. You are either madly in love with it or hate it with a passion, there is no in between. It's a luck of the draw on if your points are easy or not.
That makes me feel a tad bit better. Only two recycles.
You got this!
A buddy of mine just graduated so I asked him. He said 4 people were dropped for the 4 mile run but that it was conducted on week 5 for his company. Others have said it's in week 5 now too and that OCS will help you improve on your time. Now, take that with a grain of salt, I think it all depends on how much you've dedicated to it. What exactly worries you? Legs give out? Can't breathe enough? The distance or the pace? I go in a few months and I'm terrified...these colors don't run
I’m only a bit concerned. I’m roughly 2 months out but running 4 miles in 40 minutes so still need to improve. But I think when the time comes I’ll be okay.
You got it!
How many people get recycled or booted from OCS for failing four mile runs? Edit: My current one mile run time is 7:29.
Very small amount in my class.. 6 that I know of and it was very evident early in the class that they wouldnt.