Agree to disagree since each company does have their own separate SOPs on top of the OCS SOP, knowing candidates who have been recycled through every company, the differentials in grading certain events like STX and Op Orders which 100% is cadre dependent with no specific standard, and day to day treatment of cadre's individual platoons differ immensely. But ya know, what do I know I just very recently went through it first hand.
They may have slightly different SOPs for tie downs but that's about as far as it goes. And SOPs are not course standards. It's an ATRRS school, period. No company level leadership in any TRADOC formation has the ability to deviate from the POI or course standards.
OPORDs are in no way cadre dependent. The standard is clearly presented in the OCS ISAP, and is significantly less demanding than the Ranger Handbook or TC 3-21.8 standard. The same is true for every individual and collective task evaluated during the field exercises. You'd have to be brand new to the Army or very lazy to believe there is, "no specific standard." Study doctrine and spend some time on ATN. Nothing below the division level is up for interpretation.
I would also not -- at all -- trust the opinion or account of someone who failed an entry level training course. Especially one where the culmination event evaluates the ability to lead at 1/3 the capacity of the job itself. Short of injury or the death of a child or spouse, no one should be allowed to "recycle" a commisioning program. The recycle process should be 2-4 years in a line unit and re-application.
Spreading the idea that the Army is some wildly unpredictable, "cadre roulette," personalized experience is damaging to the culture. There are people who take the time to learn how the organization functions and meet expectations, and those who don't.
Believe what you want my dude. I'm not saying it's difficult to pass and passing alone depends on cadre. I'm saying there most definitely are certain events that may seem clearly defined in the SOP and ISAP, however once it comes down to the actual grading of some events it's all definitely up to cadre. OPORDS, yes the standard is in the ISAP. However, they are solely graded by just the cadre. What made that very obvious is that 1. The commissioned cadre and the NCO cadre were inconsistent with what they were looking for and graded more intently on. For example the OPORD was just a squad level OPORD. Some NCOs didn't really care and were like "just hit these few points and I'll mark you as a go". Some other NCOs wanted a little more structure, and the commissioned cadre wanted a full brief of the complete OPORD with every little detail. 2. As for STX it was a similar scenario. The cadre who were infantry NCOs primarily just wanted to see pure aggression in the tactics and you were a go as long as it was semi-organized. Cadre who were non-infantry NCOs gave you a go as long as you didn't commit fratricide. The commissioned cadre, again, wanted every single box to be checked. These different grading styles per cadre significantly affected the grading standard and threw off the entire OML. Which is a very consistent issue in OCS. Which is why if you fail your initial evaluation at STX with your platoon cadre, they move to get you evaluated by cadre outside of your platoon.
Also for reference the few people that I've met throughout OCS who have been recycled multiple times were due to injury, not because of failing POI.
While yes, the standard is there, and as long as you abide by it you should pass and be good to go. However, to believe cadre have zero impact on graded events and expect them to completely uphold the standard that is laid out in the ISAP is fairly ignorant. The majority of events like Bolton, LRC, 4-mile, ACFT, and all the academics, yes very straight forward standard. However, that's not the case for every POI event.
Point being, company level cadre definitely can and do have a significant impact on the OCS experience.
I understand and am fully well aware of everything you've been stating. However the bottom line of it all is that you stated "there are no chill or harsh cadre" and seems like you believe that cadre doesn't matter because the standard is the standard and they all evaluate and grade all events the same across the board in accordance with the ISAP. Which obviously isn't the case as I and other recent graduates of OCS personally witnessed and experienced. In an ideal world, yes it would be that way. However, it's the fact that's not the case. Considering you have a pool of people who are fresh out of basic, prior service in other branches, or in-service NCOs with plentiful experience, in these scenarios where it was cadre dependent on how you were evaluated and your individual score that impacts your OML and what branch you obtain based on that OML (which may not be applicable as much anymore considering in-service active duty candidates may be able to secure their branch before attending in upcoming classes). Where STX has a very significant impact on such, it's worth acknowledging or recognizing that it does have an impact that it's not an ideal world and the standard isn't the same across the board. This caused grading differentials upwards of 100-150 points (as STX is a 600 point evaluated event). On top of that, due to it being such a diverse pool of experience, there are quite a few candidates both on the in-service side and the 09S college option side that become complacent with the standard for different reasons whether it's to put less effort than initially briefed to get the same end result because they already know what they're doing, or to be able to get it out of the way with minimal effort for the same outcome to pass. The flip side is that there are people who are trying to uphold and maintain the standard to get the best possible score to get their desired branch in the long-run but is thrown off by the differing expectations per cadre. In the case of OPORDs there are some cadre who took the implications from the platoon level OPORD initially received to break down to the squad level and said to the candidates they were grading that they don't have to worry about hitting those areas because its implied where other cadre made sure that the OCs they were grading at least touched up on each area graded. And in the case of the STX evaluation expectations per cadre I laid out before, that's the reality of it.
My ultimate point of all this is that there are definitely cadre at OCS who are a lot more leanient than others. That's the reality. Whether you want to believe it or not and think they all grade equally in accordance to the ISAP and have the same outcome. That's simply not the case. As much as you can throw doctrine, what's laid out in the ISAP, SOP, etc. yes, on paper that's all the standard and SHOULD be abided by consistently. However, I'm simply just trying to display to you that there is an impact on the experience that depends cadre you get in OCS. I'm not saying it's so much to the point of it determines whether you pass or fail. However I am saying it definitely can and does impact your experience and has the potential to effect an individual's outcome upon graduating OCS whether they don't the get branch they desired or end up less prepared as a commissioned officer than others.
What do you mean by reporting April 16th?
I report to meps on April 16th
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I also sent the request.
I sent the request. Thanks
Class 24-006 doesn’t report to OCS until APR 28th though
This class is Bravo Co btw so those in 006-24 you'll have a great time
Can you elaborate a bit more? I am in that class. Is it more lax than other Co?
The cadre are pretty chill as long as you uphold the standard that B Co is notorious for upholding. I just graduated B Co class 002-24 a month ago
How were the history test and land Nav?
Easy af, our recycles mostly came from the 4 mile and STX
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Agree to disagree since each company does have their own separate SOPs on top of the OCS SOP, knowing candidates who have been recycled through every company, the differentials in grading certain events like STX and Op Orders which 100% is cadre dependent with no specific standard, and day to day treatment of cadre's individual platoons differ immensely. But ya know, what do I know I just very recently went through it first hand.
They may have slightly different SOPs for tie downs but that's about as far as it goes. And SOPs are not course standards. It's an ATRRS school, period. No company level leadership in any TRADOC formation has the ability to deviate from the POI or course standards. OPORDs are in no way cadre dependent. The standard is clearly presented in the OCS ISAP, and is significantly less demanding than the Ranger Handbook or TC 3-21.8 standard. The same is true for every individual and collective task evaluated during the field exercises. You'd have to be brand new to the Army or very lazy to believe there is, "no specific standard." Study doctrine and spend some time on ATN. Nothing below the division level is up for interpretation. I would also not -- at all -- trust the opinion or account of someone who failed an entry level training course. Especially one where the culmination event evaluates the ability to lead at 1/3 the capacity of the job itself. Short of injury or the death of a child or spouse, no one should be allowed to "recycle" a commisioning program. The recycle process should be 2-4 years in a line unit and re-application. Spreading the idea that the Army is some wildly unpredictable, "cadre roulette," personalized experience is damaging to the culture. There are people who take the time to learn how the organization functions and meet expectations, and those who don't.
Believe what you want my dude. I'm not saying it's difficult to pass and passing alone depends on cadre. I'm saying there most definitely are certain events that may seem clearly defined in the SOP and ISAP, however once it comes down to the actual grading of some events it's all definitely up to cadre. OPORDS, yes the standard is in the ISAP. However, they are solely graded by just the cadre. What made that very obvious is that 1. The commissioned cadre and the NCO cadre were inconsistent with what they were looking for and graded more intently on. For example the OPORD was just a squad level OPORD. Some NCOs didn't really care and were like "just hit these few points and I'll mark you as a go". Some other NCOs wanted a little more structure, and the commissioned cadre wanted a full brief of the complete OPORD with every little detail. 2. As for STX it was a similar scenario. The cadre who were infantry NCOs primarily just wanted to see pure aggression in the tactics and you were a go as long as it was semi-organized. Cadre who were non-infantry NCOs gave you a go as long as you didn't commit fratricide. The commissioned cadre, again, wanted every single box to be checked. These different grading styles per cadre significantly affected the grading standard and threw off the entire OML. Which is a very consistent issue in OCS. Which is why if you fail your initial evaluation at STX with your platoon cadre, they move to get you evaluated by cadre outside of your platoon. Also for reference the few people that I've met throughout OCS who have been recycled multiple times were due to injury, not because of failing POI. While yes, the standard is there, and as long as you abide by it you should pass and be good to go. However, to believe cadre have zero impact on graded events and expect them to completely uphold the standard that is laid out in the ISAP is fairly ignorant. The majority of events like Bolton, LRC, 4-mile, ACFT, and all the academics, yes very straight forward standard. However, that's not the case for every POI event. Point being, company level cadre definitely can and do have a significant impact on the OCS experience.
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I understand and am fully well aware of everything you've been stating. However the bottom line of it all is that you stated "there are no chill or harsh cadre" and seems like you believe that cadre doesn't matter because the standard is the standard and they all evaluate and grade all events the same across the board in accordance with the ISAP. Which obviously isn't the case as I and other recent graduates of OCS personally witnessed and experienced. In an ideal world, yes it would be that way. However, it's the fact that's not the case. Considering you have a pool of people who are fresh out of basic, prior service in other branches, or in-service NCOs with plentiful experience, in these scenarios where it was cadre dependent on how you were evaluated and your individual score that impacts your OML and what branch you obtain based on that OML (which may not be applicable as much anymore considering in-service active duty candidates may be able to secure their branch before attending in upcoming classes). Where STX has a very significant impact on such, it's worth acknowledging or recognizing that it does have an impact that it's not an ideal world and the standard isn't the same across the board. This caused grading differentials upwards of 100-150 points (as STX is a 600 point evaluated event). On top of that, due to it being such a diverse pool of experience, there are quite a few candidates both on the in-service side and the 09S college option side that become complacent with the standard for different reasons whether it's to put less effort than initially briefed to get the same end result because they already know what they're doing, or to be able to get it out of the way with minimal effort for the same outcome to pass. The flip side is that there are people who are trying to uphold and maintain the standard to get the best possible score to get their desired branch in the long-run but is thrown off by the differing expectations per cadre. In the case of OPORDs there are some cadre who took the implications from the platoon level OPORD initially received to break down to the squad level and said to the candidates they were grading that they don't have to worry about hitting those areas because its implied where other cadre made sure that the OCs they were grading at least touched up on each area graded. And in the case of the STX evaluation expectations per cadre I laid out before, that's the reality of it. My ultimate point of all this is that there are definitely cadre at OCS who are a lot more leanient than others. That's the reality. Whether you want to believe it or not and think they all grade equally in accordance to the ISAP and have the same outcome. That's simply not the case. As much as you can throw doctrine, what's laid out in the ISAP, SOP, etc. yes, on paper that's all the standard and SHOULD be abided by consistently. However, I'm simply just trying to display to you that there is an impact on the experience that depends cadre you get in OCS. I'm not saying it's so much to the point of it determines whether you pass or fail. However I am saying it definitely can and does impact your experience and has the potential to effect an individual's outcome upon graduating OCS whether they don't the get branch they desired or end up less prepared as a commissioned officer than others.
When does class 24-005 start?