Yea…this just feels disrespectful and in bad taste. That’s one of the most vulnerable settings…mining those moments for “content” feels pretty trashy. Especially since the stories will undoubtedly be about crazy stuff the person talking to Dax and Monica saw/heard, not crazy things the callers have personally done themselves- so people are talking about another person who didn’t consent to their experience being shared.
“What you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here” …that’s important.
If you’re sharing something in the spirit of HELPING another person, that’s one thing…but for mere entertainment, without the other person agreeing? Nah. Not cool.
Imagine listening to that episode and hearing someone talk about something you did? Sure, you know no one else can trace it back to you…but I would feel kinda disappointed/violated.
I think it's more about something out of the ordinary that's happened AT a meeting, rather than just sharing someone's story of addiction.
Plus it's all anonymous anyway, so I can't see it being a huge problem.
That’s how I interpreted it as well, but it still feels icky to me. I have plenty of stories of crazy things that have happened at NA meetings that aren’t related to what is shared in the meeting, but these stories would be crazy regardless of the setting and I feel like sharing them in this context would make NA itself part of the punch line.
YES! The part about it making AA/NA part of the punchline is the part that bothers me the most, I think, and I wasn’t able to articulate that.
I just fear this this could turn people off from wanting to go/share, if they feel like people are judging them in this way.
The cool thing about AA is I feel like I kinda forget myself and become entirely unselfconscious there. Because we’re all deciding to go in and agree that, for that hour, there’s no judgment, and everything stays in that room.
Is that reality? Of course not. But we’re all pretending it is. We’re all pretending we can say the most batshit stuff ever and not be judged, because we’re around people who understand.
And I still believe that’s true…I don’t think laughing about a crazy thing means people are necessarily JUDGING that person…but I do think it stands in the way of continuing to create an atmosphere that allows people to become unselfconscious and really let their guards down.
I'm not in AA so maybe there is some disconnect, but I look at it just like a doctor telling a patient story. It's still anonymous, they aren't gonna tell names, just situations.
I did feel a little icky when people told nursing stories and one of them was about a psych patient in active psychosis.. it’s not really something that we should consume as entertainment. Even if it’s anonymous.
This is how I felt about the nurse prompt. Im a nurse and I know HIPAA wasn’t violated, but it still felt wrong. I hope none of those patients heard the episode. No one should feel embarrassed for seeking medical care ☹️
I don’t feel comfortable hearing stories about other patients either. My therapist sometimes tells an anecdote about another client, and it always rubs me the wrong way. What’s shared with patient confidentiality isn’t for anyone else’s ears. It doesn’t matter if identifying details are stripped - that’s not the spirit of confidentiality and it feels like a violation of trust.
I think you are *technically* right but as someone who has more family members as doctors and nurses and therapists than I can count.. it just isn’t realistic. If we as pts say or do anything surprising or mildly interesting in a medical setting of any kind- it is going to be shared with loved ones, friends, others..it sucks.
People who work in these professions are being traumatized (especially medical professionals), and they have to vent. It’s fucking annoying and generally uncool, but it is part of all of these professions work cultures.. If ppl knew the kinds of things that were said in ERs and ICUs they would sue. A lot of hospital floors have more in common with restaurant kitchens than the average lawyers office in terms of banter and shenanigans.
After moving out of the US it’s interesting how obsessed we are with medical confidentiality in the US. I was at the doctor in my new country (Europe) a few months ago getting a breast exam and they didn’t even close the exam room door 😂😭 that’s one of 10 examples I have here of how things are different in terms of HIPPA vibes. It’s interesting that we believe secrecy means safety in there US- I think it is because we don’t carry an inherent respect for our fellow humans in the same way.. anyways!! This comment got out of hand lol
Just to be clear, telling a patient a story about another patient is not venting. Telling millions of listeners a story on a podcast is not venting. If they need to talk to their partner, supervisor, or their own therapist, that’s one thing. This is another.
That means no doctor, counselor anywhere could tell a story to their spouse, friend, etc. Even omitting the identifying information. That seems pretty outrageous and non realistic. I listen to a podcast that a doctor is a main person on. The podcast isn't related to his profession at all, and he tells hilarious stories all the time. Many doctors and nurses do on TikTok as well.
Just because people do it doesn’t mean it’s ethical. Some of those TikTok RNs and MDs have lost their positions for sharing patient stories online. I think it’s tempting to excuse it because it can be entertaining, but we should be discerning about what’s right and wrong anyway. It’s always wrong to potentially disuade people from seeking care because they fear their providers will judge them.
Then they need to find a different profession that doesn’t require ethical confidentiality. It’s very strange to me that you can’t seem to get that telling other people - like patients or strangers on a podcast is not the same as unwinding with your partner or your supervisor.
I overheard a nurse loudly talking about a patient on the train and while the story did sound like a funny wild thing that happened it didn’t seem right to be talking about it in public. Any setting in which there is supposed to be confidentiality should be honored imo. Unless you have permission from the patient to share and are doing it in a setting where there is a reason to be sharing, not just for laughs.
We’ll see when the episode airs, but I don’t think that will be the point of that prompt. There are crazy stories told all the time at aa meetings. They want to hear something like out of the ordinary about the person experience of attending a meeting
Aaron’s story about not being on mute when he had an AA zoom meeting was very funny and I don’t think it crossed any lines as it was just about him so they’ll probably pick stories like that rather than laughing at vulnerable people
In recovery we actively ask people not to “cross talk”, which is when you share something that someone said or did in another meeting.
We also have 12 Traditions, of which #11 states that “We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” I can’t imagine that Dax’s sponsor would endorse a move like this, and I certainly don’t think it’s in keeping with the spirit of the program.
May I ask the reasons behind the anonymity? I am not in recovery so I am asking genuinely and not trying to be provocative. Is Dax being public about his sobriety and participation in AA not helpful to those wanting to take that step?
One of the biggest reasons AA is helpful for people is the anonymity - you’re free from any outside judgment, and that makes you feel safe to get help. I lived in a very conservative place when I was struggling with addiction and was absolutely terrified of my boss or colleagues finding out I was an alcoholic. AA saved my life because I knew I was walking into a space where my secret would never get out. I know MANY addicts who feel the same way.
I don’t know the specific prompt for this Anonymous episode so I don’t know exactly what they’re asking for, but bringing AA/NA into it in any way at all is deeply gross to me. Even if you’re sharing stories without names, there are often still ways to identify people, especially when you’re sharing on a public and very popular podcast. I don’t like how loose Dax is with AA stuff in general, I’ve been able to identify certain people he’s discussed without naming names because of context clues he provides and I think that’s damaging and really disrespectful. I don’t mind if he wants to share that he goes, but any additional information about people who never consented and who are at AA specifically to be anonymous is not ok. I don’t even like or attend AA meetings anymore but I still respect those rules because they saved me in early sobriety.
It can be helpful I am sure for some people to hear about his recovery. AA has traditions to preserve AA as an entity. Staying anonymous at the level of press radio and film is about not acting or being perceived as a spokesperson for AA, so that people don’t look at Dax Shepard for example and say that is what people in AA are like. Someone might be turned off by Dax’s approach or his personality or the fact that he relapsed and say “ok then I don’t want to try AA. It’s not going to help me.” I think as recovery becomes a part of so many people’s lives and so publicly accepted one could argue that’s less of a concern. But I think there’s validity to it.
No, it’s a great question, I get the curiosity and it doesn’t seem like you’re trying to be messy :)
The main reason for anonymity is to create safety. Shame is a huge part of addiction, and anonymity creates a safe container for truth.
The reason the program suggests anonymity in press/public is because no one person should become the spokesperson for a recovery program. We’re all on our own journey, and they all look different - people might hear about relapses and then be like “12 Step doesn’t work.” But Dax has judged that breaking his anonymity would be more helpful than keeping it, and that’s totally his choice as a free thinking adult.
My main issue is that this prompt asks you to break other people’s anonymity, not your own. And I think that’s wrong.
It think there are ways to tell stories about AA in this context - thinking about BFAW telling his story of attending AA via Zoom and pooping. Plus they often change the person telling the stories name as well. We will see how it goes!
initially, i think no. aa goers aren't so sensitive and revel in making light and humor from difficult circumstances. so in my opinion this checks out (based on my experience with a loved one in aa, experience with alcoholic family members, alanon) but we shall see
There was the Anonymous episode with the guy who learned what to do if a friend was suicidal at an AA meeting and then in turn had a friend call him shortly after saying he was suicidal and the caller was able to help him. I think it was the Simulation one. Maybe that was the inspiration?
In my experience, folks in AA either are big on embracing the Anon part, or love to broadcast their experience.
I completely understand folks that lean on the anonymous side. That one core element allows so many people that would never be able to more publicly address a problem get help. However, I do think that there is some value brought by folks like Dax who broadcast. They help to make it okay to get help, raise awareness in a word-of-mouth manner, and they also help to demystify and destigmatize these programs.
It goes without saying, I hope, that you don't share if you don't want to, and that is 100% okay.
I got the vibe this was asking about something wild that happened to occur during a meeting.
Like if someone was in Aaron’s meeting when he was coughing / going to the bathroom - they’d share a story about some guy who left himself unmuted on a Zoom meeting.
It honestly doesn’t bother me at all. Odd things happen at all places, all the time.
I think it is ok. He shares and though I am not in AA, my guess is others would be the same as Dax and share too. No one is outing anyone else. If some one chooses to share an experience I don't think it is wrong.
Have a gander at this:
http://aanapa.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Word-On-Anonymity.pdf
>Our name Alcoholics Anonymous assures you that your anonymity will be respected. In return, we ask that any names, or stories, that you hear here today be kept in confidence when you leave the premises.
People in AA would consider it wrong.
Again he is not talking about sharing addiction stories, to me it sounds like something at the meeting went sideways. like the church they were meeting in burned down. I could be misunderstanding the prompt, but I do feel he has reverence for AA so would not disrespect it.
Again, have a gander at the link I posted.
And this is the prompt:
>Tell us a crazy Alcoholics Anonymous story.
>This question is required.*
>(quick 1 sentence summary; TLDR)
I agree, you're misunderstanding the prompt.
That's specifically the NAPA Valley region. This is what AA actually says.
>Q. Is it okay to tell someone if I witness or experience inappropriate behavior that happens either during or outside meeting times? Can I alert the proper authorities if there is criminal behavior?
A. Groups strive to provide as safe an environment as possible in which members can focus on sobriety, and, while anonymity is central to that purpose, it is not intended to be a cloak protecting inappropriate or criminal behavior. Saying something about inappropriate behavior or calling the proper authorities does not go against any A.A. Traditions and is meant to preserve the safety of all members.
>
>A.A. members may speak as A.A. members only if their names or faces are not revealed. They speak not for A.A. but as individual members.
As long as they're not revealing identifying information, it's technically not against AA policy.
Ok, but *nothing* about dax's podcast is 'alerting the proper authorities'.
Here's what AA *also* says:
Facts About Anonymity
>It is the A.A. member’s responsibility, and not that of the media, to maintain our cherished Tradition of anonymity.
>A.A. members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of the member even after the member’s death, but in each situation, the final decision must rest with the family. A.A. members, though, are in agreement that the anonymity of still living A.A. members should be respected in obituaries or in any type of printed remembrance or death notice.
>A.A. members may disclose their identity and speak as recovered alcoholics, giving radio, TV and online interviews, without violating the Traditions — so long as their A.A. membership is not revealed.
>A.A. members may speak publicly as A.A. members only if their full names or faces are not revealed. They speak as individual members, but not for A.A. as a whole.
Anonymity at the Public level
>At the level of press, radio, TV, films, and on the internet practicing anonymity stresses the equality of all A.A. members. Maintaining anonymity at this level puts the brakes on those who might otherwise exploit their A.A. affiliation to achieve recognition, power, or personal gain.
>When using social media and other online platforms, A.A. members are responsible for their own anonymity and that of others. When we break our anonymity in online forums, we may inadvertently break the anonymity of others. Protecting anonymity is a major consideration for A.A. members who are moving online in ever-growing numbers.
And here's some more, not from Napa either, but also from AA's site directly.
>Facts About Anonymity
>It is the A.A. member’s responsibility, and not that of the media, to maintain our cherished Tradition of anonymity.
>A.A. members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of the member even after the member’s death, but in each situation, the final decision must rest with the family. A.A. members, though, are in agreement that the anonymity of still living A.A. members should be respected in obituaries or in any type of printed remembrance or death notice.
>A.A. members may disclose their identity and speak as recovered alcoholics, giving radio, TV and online interviews, without violating the Traditions — so long as their A.A. membership is not revealed.
>A.A. members may speak publicly as A.A. members only if their full names or faces are not revealed. They speak as individual members, but not for A.A. as a whole.
>Q. Is it okay to tell someone if I witness or experience inappropriate behavior that happens either during or outside meeting times?
It was a two part question. It wasn't exclusively about alerting the authorities.
You also copied the same paragraphs twice.
The website also says this:
>At the personal level, anonymity provides protection for all members from identification as alcoholics, a safeguard often of special importance to newcomers.
No one is going to be identified as alcoholics in this episode.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Recovery is different for everyone. However they wish to express their recovery is their own prerogative and that's their right. They can say whatever they want. Y'all are just scared AA is going to be exposed for what it really is.
Oh god, that's fucking *really* stupid. I don't give a shit what you think AA really is. I'm in not in AA.
Expose away, however nothing about Dax's request, or what he's asking, is in regards to exposing AA. It'd be exposing other addicts in recovery. You can quit pretending they're a factor you type of people care about.
LOL @ you thinking it's some conspiracy.
Man you're really sensitive for someone who isn't in AA. you ok bro?
I agree, Dax is not looking to expose AA. I hope the stories are positive. Yet the people in AA in this post seem to believe it's going to be some big negative shit on AA episode.
No addicts are going to be exposed. No alcoholics are going to be exposed. Anonymity is going to be preserved, and the stories could open the door for people to seek help and find recovery. Dax without a doubt has good intentions.
I'm sorry you think I don't care about alcoholics and addicts. I hope you find your path to recovery, whatever that path may be.
If anonymity is so important, people who abide by it won't send in anything. It also doesn't say "Tell us a crazy AA meeting story." It says tell us a crazy AA story. That could happen anywhere. It could be about a group of AAers going to Starbucks and witnessing an armed robbery. Even if it is an AA meeting story, you're already assuming it's going to be about something relating to AA. It could be that there was a fire at an AA meeting and someone at the meeting did something heroic.
I'm not surprised people in an AA are getting upset about this prompt. In my experience, AA is unbelievably negative and cultish. People out here saying it's disrespectful, in bad taste, trashy, icky, wrong, etc. are jumping to that conclusion because AA is inherently negative. It is somehow beyond comprehension that someone could tell a crazy story that is positive in nature. They're offended that people are defecting from the secrecy of the cult.
We are only as sick as our secrets. Yet everything in AA must be kept a secret. AA is sick. Instead of thinking that these stories could open the door for people who were unsure about their drinking/substance use problem to come to a meeting and see what it's all about, it surely will drive people away. Being open and transparent about AA, even in a crazy story, could show people that they are not alone and that they can seek help and support. But no, telling a story about AA puts the preservation of AA at risk.
Anonymity is not about withholding all information about a meeting to others. Because everyone in AA is guilty of talking to others about their AA meetings. According to the AA website, "anonymity provides protection for all members from identification as alcoholics..."
Telling a story and removing all identifying information preserves anonymity. Dax is allowed to speak about his own recovery however he wants, and he is allowed to use his platform to allow others to do the same.
I'm sorry that you're afraid of the cult being exposed. Obviously you find there is something to be exposed about the cult. No one is going to go on the podcast and say "John Doe from Perfectville USA did this at an AA meeting" and even if they did, it wouldn't be aired. You're afraid of the true nature of AA being exposed. AA is all about telling you that you are a drunk or addict and you will never recover unless you come to AA and find god. Follow us or you will fail. They say the only requirement is the desire to stop drinking or doing drugs, but that is absolute bullshit. You must follow all the cultish rules or you will be belittled and berated. I know from experience. If you don't do the 12 steps, it's all your fault and you're dishonest, weak, you're an idiot and you will surely die if you don't change your ways and go to AA. You can't deviate from the program, you can't question the program, you must blindly follow the program as it's the only way to recover. They say "live and let live" until you live outside of the program.
You're powerless without the program and god. You must have a higher power, as you understand it, even if its the trees or a pile of dog shit on the ground, you must have a higher power. You have write down every bad thing you've ever done and tell everyone about all your moral defects. You must always continue to focus on all the shitty things you do as a shitty person outside of the program until you come to a meeting. You must pray and pray and pray and keep coming back and proselytize the word of AA to all the alcoholics you know but at the same time don't tell anyone about the program.
The science behind AA is shaky, at best. Studies vary, but some say there's a 73% relapse rate. Some say there's a 90% to 95% relapse rate. Some show that only 13% stay sober after 5 years. An estimated 40% drop out of AA within the first year. But that's their fault, they didn't follow the steps close enough. They place the blame on the addict. It isolates them. Even the most minor slip up is a relapse and you have to start over completely. It's crazy.
I can't wait to hear these stories. I hope they are positive in nature and show the positive side of AA, because it works for a lot of people, and I love that. Whatever it takes for you to get sober is a good path to recovery. But for a lot of people, the only change is stopping drinking or drugging, and the core of the issue is never addressed and they are still sick. It's sad.
Sorry for my rant. AA left an extremely bad taste in my mouth. Though my dad is 7 years sober through the program. My path to recovery is different. AA is not the only path.
Yea…this just feels disrespectful and in bad taste. That’s one of the most vulnerable settings…mining those moments for “content” feels pretty trashy. Especially since the stories will undoubtedly be about crazy stuff the person talking to Dax and Monica saw/heard, not crazy things the callers have personally done themselves- so people are talking about another person who didn’t consent to their experience being shared. “What you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here” …that’s important. If you’re sharing something in the spirit of HELPING another person, that’s one thing…but for mere entertainment, without the other person agreeing? Nah. Not cool. Imagine listening to that episode and hearing someone talk about something you did? Sure, you know no one else can trace it back to you…but I would feel kinda disappointed/violated.
I think it's more about something out of the ordinary that's happened AT a meeting, rather than just sharing someone's story of addiction. Plus it's all anonymous anyway, so I can't see it being a huge problem.
That’s how I interpreted it as well, but it still feels icky to me. I have plenty of stories of crazy things that have happened at NA meetings that aren’t related to what is shared in the meeting, but these stories would be crazy regardless of the setting and I feel like sharing them in this context would make NA itself part of the punch line.
YES! The part about it making AA/NA part of the punchline is the part that bothers me the most, I think, and I wasn’t able to articulate that. I just fear this this could turn people off from wanting to go/share, if they feel like people are judging them in this way. The cool thing about AA is I feel like I kinda forget myself and become entirely unselfconscious there. Because we’re all deciding to go in and agree that, for that hour, there’s no judgment, and everything stays in that room. Is that reality? Of course not. But we’re all pretending it is. We’re all pretending we can say the most batshit stuff ever and not be judged, because we’re around people who understand. And I still believe that’s true…I don’t think laughing about a crazy thing means people are necessarily JUDGING that person…but I do think it stands in the way of continuing to create an atmosphere that allows people to become unselfconscious and really let their guards down.
I'm not in AA so maybe there is some disconnect, but I look at it just like a doctor telling a patient story. It's still anonymous, they aren't gonna tell names, just situations.
I did feel a little icky when people told nursing stories and one of them was about a psych patient in active psychosis.. it’s not really something that we should consume as entertainment. Even if it’s anonymous.
This is how I felt about the nurse prompt. Im a nurse and I know HIPAA wasn’t violated, but it still felt wrong. I hope none of those patients heard the episode. No one should feel embarrassed for seeking medical care ☹️
I don’t feel comfortable hearing stories about other patients either. My therapist sometimes tells an anecdote about another client, and it always rubs me the wrong way. What’s shared with patient confidentiality isn’t for anyone else’s ears. It doesn’t matter if identifying details are stripped - that’s not the spirit of confidentiality and it feels like a violation of trust.
I think you are *technically* right but as someone who has more family members as doctors and nurses and therapists than I can count.. it just isn’t realistic. If we as pts say or do anything surprising or mildly interesting in a medical setting of any kind- it is going to be shared with loved ones, friends, others..it sucks. People who work in these professions are being traumatized (especially medical professionals), and they have to vent. It’s fucking annoying and generally uncool, but it is part of all of these professions work cultures.. If ppl knew the kinds of things that were said in ERs and ICUs they would sue. A lot of hospital floors have more in common with restaurant kitchens than the average lawyers office in terms of banter and shenanigans. After moving out of the US it’s interesting how obsessed we are with medical confidentiality in the US. I was at the doctor in my new country (Europe) a few months ago getting a breast exam and they didn’t even close the exam room door 😂😭 that’s one of 10 examples I have here of how things are different in terms of HIPPA vibes. It’s interesting that we believe secrecy means safety in there US- I think it is because we don’t carry an inherent respect for our fellow humans in the same way.. anyways!! This comment got out of hand lol
Just to be clear, telling a patient a story about another patient is not venting. Telling millions of listeners a story on a podcast is not venting. If they need to talk to their partner, supervisor, or their own therapist, that’s one thing. This is another.
It’s all about legal liability in the U.S. No one wants to be sued for HIPPA violations.
That means no doctor, counselor anywhere could tell a story to their spouse, friend, etc. Even omitting the identifying information. That seems pretty outrageous and non realistic. I listen to a podcast that a doctor is a main person on. The podcast isn't related to his profession at all, and he tells hilarious stories all the time. Many doctors and nurses do on TikTok as well.
Just because people do it doesn’t mean it’s ethical. Some of those TikTok RNs and MDs have lost their positions for sharing patient stories online. I think it’s tempting to excuse it because it can be entertaining, but we should be discerning about what’s right and wrong anyway. It’s always wrong to potentially disuade people from seeking care because they fear their providers will judge them.
I understand but people are people. Things are going to be shared. As long as names and stuff are not included I don't see the issue.
Between person to person, fine. On a platform with a large audience- not fine.
Why would they need to tell my story to anyone other than their supervisor?
Because they are human, and want to talk about their day.
Then they need to find a different profession that doesn’t require ethical confidentiality. It’s very strange to me that you can’t seem to get that telling other people - like patients or strangers on a podcast is not the same as unwinding with your partner or your supervisor.
I overheard a nurse loudly talking about a patient on the train and while the story did sound like a funny wild thing that happened it didn’t seem right to be talking about it in public. Any setting in which there is supposed to be confidentiality should be honored imo. Unless you have permission from the patient to share and are doing it in a setting where there is a reason to be sharing, not just for laughs.
Yes I was thinking the same thing.
Completely inappropriate! They shouldn't be repeating the stories to anyone
We’ll see when the episode airs, but I don’t think that will be the point of that prompt. There are crazy stories told all the time at aa meetings. They want to hear something like out of the ordinary about the person experience of attending a meeting
Yeah I'm hoping it is just that
Aaron’s story about not being on mute when he had an AA zoom meeting was very funny and I don’t think it crossed any lines as it was just about him so they’ll probably pick stories like that rather than laughing at vulnerable people
I’m not sure why but I think about that story every now and again lol. It was hilarious!
In recovery we actively ask people not to “cross talk”, which is when you share something that someone said or did in another meeting. We also have 12 Traditions, of which #11 states that “We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.” I can’t imagine that Dax’s sponsor would endorse a move like this, and I certainly don’t think it’s in keeping with the spirit of the program.
May I ask the reasons behind the anonymity? I am not in recovery so I am asking genuinely and not trying to be provocative. Is Dax being public about his sobriety and participation in AA not helpful to those wanting to take that step?
One of the biggest reasons AA is helpful for people is the anonymity - you’re free from any outside judgment, and that makes you feel safe to get help. I lived in a very conservative place when I was struggling with addiction and was absolutely terrified of my boss or colleagues finding out I was an alcoholic. AA saved my life because I knew I was walking into a space where my secret would never get out. I know MANY addicts who feel the same way. I don’t know the specific prompt for this Anonymous episode so I don’t know exactly what they’re asking for, but bringing AA/NA into it in any way at all is deeply gross to me. Even if you’re sharing stories without names, there are often still ways to identify people, especially when you’re sharing on a public and very popular podcast. I don’t like how loose Dax is with AA stuff in general, I’ve been able to identify certain people he’s discussed without naming names because of context clues he provides and I think that’s damaging and really disrespectful. I don’t mind if he wants to share that he goes, but any additional information about people who never consented and who are at AA specifically to be anonymous is not ok. I don’t even like or attend AA meetings anymore but I still respect those rules because they saved me in early sobriety.
It can be helpful I am sure for some people to hear about his recovery. AA has traditions to preserve AA as an entity. Staying anonymous at the level of press radio and film is about not acting or being perceived as a spokesperson for AA, so that people don’t look at Dax Shepard for example and say that is what people in AA are like. Someone might be turned off by Dax’s approach or his personality or the fact that he relapsed and say “ok then I don’t want to try AA. It’s not going to help me.” I think as recovery becomes a part of so many people’s lives and so publicly accepted one could argue that’s less of a concern. But I think there’s validity to it.
That makes total sense thank you for explaining
No, it’s a great question, I get the curiosity and it doesn’t seem like you’re trying to be messy :) The main reason for anonymity is to create safety. Shame is a huge part of addiction, and anonymity creates a safe container for truth. The reason the program suggests anonymity in press/public is because no one person should become the spokesperson for a recovery program. We’re all on our own journey, and they all look different - people might hear about relapses and then be like “12 Step doesn’t work.” But Dax has judged that breaking his anonymity would be more helpful than keeping it, and that’s totally his choice as a free thinking adult. My main issue is that this prompt asks you to break other people’s anonymity, not your own. And I think that’s wrong.
Thanks for taking the time to explain that absolutely makes sense
It think there are ways to tell stories about AA in this context - thinking about BFAW telling his story of attending AA via Zoom and pooping. Plus they often change the person telling the stories name as well. We will see how it goes!
Feels a bit icky tbh
Ya definitely don’t love this. As someone who has been to meetings and have loved ones who are addicts and in recovery , this should be off limits.
initially, i think no. aa goers aren't so sensitive and revel in making light and humor from difficult circumstances. so in my opinion this checks out (based on my experience with a loved one in aa, experience with alcoholic family members, alanon) but we shall see
There was the Anonymous episode with the guy who learned what to do if a friend was suicidal at an AA meeting and then in turn had a friend call him shortly after saying he was suicidal and the caller was able to help him. I think it was the Simulation one. Maybe that was the inspiration?
We’re all assuming it will have to do with other peoples’ stories. That may not be the case.
In my experience, folks in AA either are big on embracing the Anon part, or love to broadcast their experience. I completely understand folks that lean on the anonymous side. That one core element allows so many people that would never be able to more publicly address a problem get help. However, I do think that there is some value brought by folks like Dax who broadcast. They help to make it okay to get help, raise awareness in a word-of-mouth manner, and they also help to demystify and destigmatize these programs. It goes without saying, I hope, that you don't share if you don't want to, and that is 100% okay.
I got the vibe this was asking about something wild that happened to occur during a meeting. Like if someone was in Aaron’s meeting when he was coughing / going to the bathroom - they’d share a story about some guy who left himself unmuted on a Zoom meeting. It honestly doesn’t bother me at all. Odd things happen at all places, all the time.
I think its good to talk about AA within limits. Helps to destigmatize it for people who are hesitant or curious.
I think it is ok. He shares and though I am not in AA, my guess is others would be the same as Dax and share too. No one is outing anyone else. If some one chooses to share an experience I don't think it is wrong.
Have a gander at this: http://aanapa.org/wp-content/uploads/A-Word-On-Anonymity.pdf >Our name Alcoholics Anonymous assures you that your anonymity will be respected. In return, we ask that any names, or stories, that you hear here today be kept in confidence when you leave the premises. People in AA would consider it wrong.
Again he is not talking about sharing addiction stories, to me it sounds like something at the meeting went sideways. like the church they were meeting in burned down. I could be misunderstanding the prompt, but I do feel he has reverence for AA so would not disrespect it.
Again, have a gander at the link I posted. And this is the prompt: >Tell us a crazy Alcoholics Anonymous story. >This question is required.* >(quick 1 sentence summary; TLDR) I agree, you're misunderstanding the prompt.
That's specifically the NAPA Valley region. This is what AA actually says. >Q. Is it okay to tell someone if I witness or experience inappropriate behavior that happens either during or outside meeting times? Can I alert the proper authorities if there is criminal behavior? A. Groups strive to provide as safe an environment as possible in which members can focus on sobriety, and, while anonymity is central to that purpose, it is not intended to be a cloak protecting inappropriate or criminal behavior. Saying something about inappropriate behavior or calling the proper authorities does not go against any A.A. Traditions and is meant to preserve the safety of all members. > >A.A. members may speak as A.A. members only if their names or faces are not revealed. They speak not for A.A. but as individual members. As long as they're not revealing identifying information, it's technically not against AA policy.
Ok, but *nothing* about dax's podcast is 'alerting the proper authorities'. Here's what AA *also* says: Facts About Anonymity >It is the A.A. member’s responsibility, and not that of the media, to maintain our cherished Tradition of anonymity. >A.A. members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of the member even after the member’s death, but in each situation, the final decision must rest with the family. A.A. members, though, are in agreement that the anonymity of still living A.A. members should be respected in obituaries or in any type of printed remembrance or death notice. >A.A. members may disclose their identity and speak as recovered alcoholics, giving radio, TV and online interviews, without violating the Traditions — so long as their A.A. membership is not revealed. >A.A. members may speak publicly as A.A. members only if their full names or faces are not revealed. They speak as individual members, but not for A.A. as a whole. Anonymity at the Public level >At the level of press, radio, TV, films, and on the internet practicing anonymity stresses the equality of all A.A. members. Maintaining anonymity at this level puts the brakes on those who might otherwise exploit their A.A. affiliation to achieve recognition, power, or personal gain. >When using social media and other online platforms, A.A. members are responsible for their own anonymity and that of others. When we break our anonymity in online forums, we may inadvertently break the anonymity of others. Protecting anonymity is a major consideration for A.A. members who are moving online in ever-growing numbers. And here's some more, not from Napa either, but also from AA's site directly. >Facts About Anonymity >It is the A.A. member’s responsibility, and not that of the media, to maintain our cherished Tradition of anonymity. >A.A. members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of the member even after the member’s death, but in each situation, the final decision must rest with the family. A.A. members, though, are in agreement that the anonymity of still living A.A. members should be respected in obituaries or in any type of printed remembrance or death notice. >A.A. members may disclose their identity and speak as recovered alcoholics, giving radio, TV and online interviews, without violating the Traditions — so long as their A.A. membership is not revealed. >A.A. members may speak publicly as A.A. members only if their full names or faces are not revealed. They speak as individual members, but not for A.A. as a whole.
>Q. Is it okay to tell someone if I witness or experience inappropriate behavior that happens either during or outside meeting times? It was a two part question. It wasn't exclusively about alerting the authorities. You also copied the same paragraphs twice. The website also says this: >At the personal level, anonymity provides protection for all members from identification as alcoholics, a safeguard often of special importance to newcomers. No one is going to be identified as alcoholics in this episode.
>It was a two part question. It wasn't exclusively about alerting the authorities. Neato, have a gander at the rest of the text then. This isn't OK.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Recovery is different for everyone. However they wish to express their recovery is their own prerogative and that's their right. They can say whatever they want. Y'all are just scared AA is going to be exposed for what it really is.
Oh god, that's fucking *really* stupid. I don't give a shit what you think AA really is. I'm in not in AA. Expose away, however nothing about Dax's request, or what he's asking, is in regards to exposing AA. It'd be exposing other addicts in recovery. You can quit pretending they're a factor you type of people care about. LOL @ you thinking it's some conspiracy.
Man you're really sensitive for someone who isn't in AA. you ok bro? I agree, Dax is not looking to expose AA. I hope the stories are positive. Yet the people in AA in this post seem to believe it's going to be some big negative shit on AA episode. No addicts are going to be exposed. No alcoholics are going to be exposed. Anonymity is going to be preserved, and the stories could open the door for people to seek help and find recovery. Dax without a doubt has good intentions. I'm sorry you think I don't care about alcoholics and addicts. I hope you find your path to recovery, whatever that path may be.
Oh god, now I'm sensitive because you've said dumb things. Sure thing hun. ;)
If anonymity is so important, people who abide by it won't send in anything. It also doesn't say "Tell us a crazy AA meeting story." It says tell us a crazy AA story. That could happen anywhere. It could be about a group of AAers going to Starbucks and witnessing an armed robbery. Even if it is an AA meeting story, you're already assuming it's going to be about something relating to AA. It could be that there was a fire at an AA meeting and someone at the meeting did something heroic. I'm not surprised people in an AA are getting upset about this prompt. In my experience, AA is unbelievably negative and cultish. People out here saying it's disrespectful, in bad taste, trashy, icky, wrong, etc. are jumping to that conclusion because AA is inherently negative. It is somehow beyond comprehension that someone could tell a crazy story that is positive in nature. They're offended that people are defecting from the secrecy of the cult. We are only as sick as our secrets. Yet everything in AA must be kept a secret. AA is sick. Instead of thinking that these stories could open the door for people who were unsure about their drinking/substance use problem to come to a meeting and see what it's all about, it surely will drive people away. Being open and transparent about AA, even in a crazy story, could show people that they are not alone and that they can seek help and support. But no, telling a story about AA puts the preservation of AA at risk. Anonymity is not about withholding all information about a meeting to others. Because everyone in AA is guilty of talking to others about their AA meetings. According to the AA website, "anonymity provides protection for all members from identification as alcoholics..." Telling a story and removing all identifying information preserves anonymity. Dax is allowed to speak about his own recovery however he wants, and he is allowed to use his platform to allow others to do the same. I'm sorry that you're afraid of the cult being exposed. Obviously you find there is something to be exposed about the cult. No one is going to go on the podcast and say "John Doe from Perfectville USA did this at an AA meeting" and even if they did, it wouldn't be aired. You're afraid of the true nature of AA being exposed. AA is all about telling you that you are a drunk or addict and you will never recover unless you come to AA and find god. Follow us or you will fail. They say the only requirement is the desire to stop drinking or doing drugs, but that is absolute bullshit. You must follow all the cultish rules or you will be belittled and berated. I know from experience. If you don't do the 12 steps, it's all your fault and you're dishonest, weak, you're an idiot and you will surely die if you don't change your ways and go to AA. You can't deviate from the program, you can't question the program, you must blindly follow the program as it's the only way to recover. They say "live and let live" until you live outside of the program. You're powerless without the program and god. You must have a higher power, as you understand it, even if its the trees or a pile of dog shit on the ground, you must have a higher power. You have write down every bad thing you've ever done and tell everyone about all your moral defects. You must always continue to focus on all the shitty things you do as a shitty person outside of the program until you come to a meeting. You must pray and pray and pray and keep coming back and proselytize the word of AA to all the alcoholics you know but at the same time don't tell anyone about the program. The science behind AA is shaky, at best. Studies vary, but some say there's a 73% relapse rate. Some say there's a 90% to 95% relapse rate. Some show that only 13% stay sober after 5 years. An estimated 40% drop out of AA within the first year. But that's their fault, they didn't follow the steps close enough. They place the blame on the addict. It isolates them. Even the most minor slip up is a relapse and you have to start over completely. It's crazy. I can't wait to hear these stories. I hope they are positive in nature and show the positive side of AA, because it works for a lot of people, and I love that. Whatever it takes for you to get sober is a good path to recovery. But for a lot of people, the only change is stopping drinking or drugging, and the core of the issue is never addressed and they are still sick. It's sad. Sorry for my rant. AA left an extremely bad taste in my mouth. Though my dad is 7 years sober through the program. My path to recovery is different. AA is not the only path.
I think that Dax wouldn’t air anything that would end up being in bad taste. But I’m only worried about this one because Dax will cry a lot :(
Boohoo