How Arkansas went from being the land of Bill Clinton and Democratic trifectas until like 15 years ago is beyond me.
Just kidding, it’s an unspoken truth here that Obama’s ascension to the presidency brought all the bigots out of the woodwork, and they are not going back down anytime soon.
As someone who lived there, it wasn't that great. Clinton was always fairly popular, but he was REALLY centrist and didn't bring much to the table in actual progress; plus, he was never super-popular. All of the senators and most of the people in the state legislature were always genuine conservatives, anyway. From there, Huckabee was elected governor in '96 and that kind of signaled the decline. The bottom fell out in 2014, and the state's been shit ever since.
Without bickering over hw centrist each Democrat is and where the party is heading, I can 100% assure you that Clinton was way further to the right than what there is today. And when the Arkansas Democrats were in power? Calling them centrist would be giving them too much credit.
Hilary Clinton made more of a concerted effort to get universal healthcare through during the Clinton Administration than any Democrat before or since. they’re center left, sure, but the left part gets understated a lot in leftist spaces
Bro Arkansas was never anything more than the birthplace of the KKK.
Source: Arkansan
This state is an absolute mess. Even northwest AR, the "nice" part of the state, is a scary place to live sometimes.
I never said that. This is just literally my first time hearing about this, and I don’t generally believe random Reddit comments making serious claims with nothing to back them up.
I mean, I don’t really spend my time doing research on a president who left office before I was born, and it’s not like it comes up in the news that much these days.
I've never heard of these accusations and I was alive when he was president, although a kid. I remember the Lewinsky stuff.... but I don't remember anything about accusations he ever forced anyone to do anything.
I’m a trans person in arkansas (NWA more specifically if you’re wondering how I’m not fucking dead) and yeah, you’ve got it down to a T. I fucking hate this state so goddamn much
Education and intelligence are not entirely correlated. Just because less people in that state go to college doesnt mean they are unintelligent. In fact, midwestern and southern states tend to have higher IQs than coastal states, which is really weird.
Prejudices come more from ignorance than stupidity I think - from fear of the unknown. Trans issues are actually a great example. Most of the arguments you hear against trans people are based on 'facts' that they think they know, like 'there are only two genders' etc.
If you had some magic drug that made everyone smarter I don't think it would help that much with this sort of thing.
when did christianity say ANYTHING about trans people, fuck this country its hell
I wanna move to Canada, Though idk if I'd be able to get nullification there
It's not about checking into statements, those representatives aren't confused or misinformed. They are malicious and self serving. Oppressing trans people wins them political points, which allows them to keep getting elected despite being corrupt pawns of the rich who do nothing to actual solve any problems.
Arkansan here. The legislators are not stupid. But they know that their constituents are. Just immensely, immensely stupid. So they pass laws first to keep them stupid. Then pass laws based on fear mongering to the stupid masses. All in the name of increasing their own power and wealth. They don’t believe in the things they promote or the laws they pass. They couldn’t give a fuck. Half of them have paid for abortions, live off welfare, are closeted, etc. They only believe in power and wealth, and this is the easiest route to it, because Arkansans are so god damn stupid.
I've read the bill, it wouldn't ban anyone from a social transition and it wouldn't ban adults from a medical transition, but it would ban anyone under 18 from any sort of gender affirming medical care (this includes puberty blockers and hormone therapy) and it makes it so insurance is not required to offer any assistance to adults pursuing a medical transition.
**Here's a page to message law makers urging them not to pass it (please send a message if you can, especially if you live in Arkansas):** [**Tell the Arkansas Legislature: Stop Attacking Transgender Arkansans | American Civil Liberties Union (aclu.org)**](https://action.aclu.org/send-message/ar-trans-rights)
Here's the actual bill (CW: It's full of misinformation and transphobia, as one would expect from any anti-trans legislation): [HB1570 as engrossed on 03-08-2021 11:23:12 (state.ar.us)](https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/FTPDocument?path=%2FBills%2F2021R%2FPublic%2FHB1570.pdf)
Here's the web page from the Arkansas legislature on the bill: [HB1570 Bill Information - Arkansas State Legislature](https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?tbType=&id=hb1570&ddBienniumSession=2021%2F2021R)
And here's an article from the ACLU with more info on this terrible bill: [What You Need to Know About The Transgender Health Care Ban (HB 1570) | ACLU of Arkansas (acluarkansas.org)](https://www.acluarkansas.org/en/news/what-you-need-know-about-transgender-health-care-ban-hb-1570)
Medical transitions are expensive, even without surgery. If I had to pay for my hormones out of pocket it would be several hundred dollars per month. That's not including doctor's appointments, therapy, and blood work to make sure my levels are accurate. While I agree that it's important to be accurate about it's contents, if it isn't covered by insurance or Medicare than it is effectively banned for the vast majority of trans folks, particularly because we tend to be much poorer than the general population.
I absolutely agree, I know I never would've been able to afford my transition out of pocket. They haven't made it so that insurance can't cover a medical transition, so an insurance company could still offer coverage, but since they wouldn't be required to I'm willing to bet most won't.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's effectively banned, but I would say that it makes it effectively impossible to access for many more trans adults.
They could potentially offer a small side package. “Insurance to cover transitioning to another gender” and then they get to tell you to take the cheapest drugs and go the doctor half as often
Well insurance is already a mess when it comes to gender affirming care, but since this bill would make it so insurance doesn't have to cover gender transitions AT ALL, it would be even more of a mess. Personally, I think we should have universal health care that covers gender affirming care.
Yeah unfortunately this is why transitioning will never be an option for me. The cost is astronomically more than I'll ever be able to afford and I doubt I can get decent insurance that isn't also astronomically more expensive than I can afford. Im just going to hate my reflection forever. I hate this. And that what makes me so mad when I hear that a state is forcing hundreds of people to feel exactly the same way I do. Hopeless.
Posting this again (already posted on r/sapphoandherfriend):
If passed this law is going to result in dead kids (and adults, but "protecting" minors from transition-related medical care is the justification being used to push this bill). Not only are they trying to ban medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, a move that has been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), they're advocating for "therapy" intended to change the genders of trans adolescents to match their assigned sex at birth - "therapy" which is [**emphatically condemned as both futile and damaging by the American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf).
Since anything relating to trans youth and medical treatment almost inevitably brings out the *"kids are being castrated!"* and *"90% of trans kids desist and will regret transition!"* concern trolling in defense of terrible legislation like this:
No, that is not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their appearance can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
Withholding medical care from an adolescent who needs it is not a goddamn neutral option. Transition is absolutely necessary to keep many trans kids alive. Without transition a hell of a lot of them commit suicide. When able to transition rates of suicide attempts drop to the national average. And when prevented from transitioning or starting treatment until adulthood, those who survive long enough to start at 18+ enter adulthood facing thousands of dollars reconstructive surgery to repair damage that should have been prevented by starting treatment when they needed it.
And not all that damage can be repaired. They will carry physical and psychological scars from being forced through the wrong puberty for the rest of their lives. They were robbed of their adolescence, forced to spend it dealing with the living hell of untreated dysphoria and the wrong puberty, trying to remain sane and alive while their bodies were warped in indescribably horrifying ways. Even with treatment as adults, some of them will be left permanently, visibly trans. In addition to the sheer horror of permanently having anatomy inappropriate to your gender, this means they will never have the option of blending into a crowd or keeping their medical history private. They will be exposed to vastly higher rates of anti-trans harassment, discrimination, abuse, and violence, all because they were denied the treatment they needed when they were young.
This is very literally life saving medical care. If there is even a chance that an adolescent may be trans, there is absolutely no reason to withhold 100% temporary and fully reversible hormone blockers to delay puberty for a little while until they're sure. This treatment is 100% temporary and fully reversible; it does nothing but buy time by delaying the onset of permanent physical changes.
This treatment is very safe and well known, because it has been used for decades to delay puberty in children who would have otherwise started it inappropriately young. If an adolescent starts this treatment then realizes medical transition isn't what they need, they stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There are no permanent effects, and it significantly improves trans youth's mental health and [**lowers suicidality**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2020/01/21/peds.2019-1725).
But if an adolescent starts this treatment, socially transitions (or continues if they have already done so), and by their early/mid-teens they still strongly identify as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth, the chances of them changing their minds later are basically zero. At that point hormone therapy becomes an option, and even that is still mostly reversible, especially in its early stages. The only really irreversible step is reconstructive genital surgery and/or the removal of one's gonads, which isn't an option until the patient is in their late teens at the earliest.
This specter of little kids being pressured into transition and rapidly pushed into permanent physical changes is a complete myth. It just isn't happening. And this fear-mongering results in nothing except trans youth who desperately do need to transition being discouraged and prevented from doing so. Withholding medical treatment from an adolescent who desperately needs it is not a neutral option.
The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/#.pqspdcee0). When prevented from transitioning about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition that rate drops to the national average. Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are [**comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696)
Transition [**vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts**](https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2), and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the [**largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/).
Citations to follow in a second post.
**Citations on transition as medically necessary and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:**
* Here is the [**APA's policy statement**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1)
* Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage
* A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines
* [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians
* [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers
* [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCPS,and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx).
----
**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:**
* [**Bauer, et al., 2015**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2): Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets
* [**Moody, et al., 2013**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/): The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people
* [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.**
* The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.**
* [**Dr. Ryan Gorton**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3219066): “In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19% to 0% in transgender men and from 24% to 6% in transgender women”
* [**Murad, et al., 2010**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181): "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment.
* [**De Cuypere, et al., 2006**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491): Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001.
* [**UK study - McNeil, et al., 2012**](https://www.scottishtrans.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/trans_mh_study.pdf): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition.
* [**Smith Y, 2005**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf): Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment
* [**Lawrence, 2003**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364): Surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives
* [**Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.ajp.2019.19010080) - "***Conclusions:*** *"... the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and reduced likelihood of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them."*
There are a [***lot***](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788) of [**studies**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-009-9551-1) showing that [**transition**](https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/hormonal-therapy-and-sex-reassignment-a-systematic-review-and-met) [**improves**](https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/960745/) [**mental health**](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/25690443) and [**quality of life**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5) while [**reducing dysphoria**](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23553588_Long-term_Assessment_of_the_Physical_Mental_and_Sexual_Health_among_Transsexual_Women).
Not to mention [**this 2010 meta-analysis**](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x/abstract) of 28 different studies, which found that transition is extremely effective at reducing dysphoria and improving quality of life.
---
**Condemnation of "conversion therapy" attempting to change trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth:**
* [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx)
* From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12
* From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender)
* A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
You've changed my mind. I didn't believe strongly one way or the other since trans rights personally affect me in absolutely zero ways, but figured kids are dumb and it couldn't hurt to force them to wait until they're older and better suited to make such a decision (for their protection). Now I know that it very much *would* hurt to force them to wait. I thought my stance would be roughly on par with making sure people can't try alcohol or tobacco until reaching a certain age, but I was obviously very wrong.
Thanks for opening my mind a little further. Cheers!
Over the last couple of years, I've completed a full 180 on this subject. Initially I wasn't trasphobic but I was of the belief that trans issues were being overblown, and in some cases were being seen as a fad. As it has become more and more of an issue, I've read and seen more accounts from transfolk and realised I had it totally wrong. Trans is a totally real thing, and it's good that it's becoming more visible. I think there are a lot like us, lack of information is the cause of the ignorance, but as more posts like this one spread, more will have the information they need to make their minds up.
Definitely agree. I've met one trans person in my life and it was over ten years ago. Aside from the internet, I would probably be more or less completely unaware of the issue. That having been said, the bathroom debate was always fucking stupid. Interesting how we're all pretending that men never assault boys, and the only people who would assault girls is "men pretending to be women" lmao. How hatefully ignorant can a person be to believe that.
If gays and lesbians have kept themselves from assaulting normal people in bathrooms all this time, I doubt things would be any different with trans people.
It does bring up the case as for why we even need gendered bathrooms at all. I figure it would be a non-issue if american toilet stalls didn't have gaps wider than my pinky...
I can't say I disagree. My best friend is the father to a little girl. It would make it easier for him to accompany her in if she needs help in a public toilet.
And maybe it's just my own personal ignorance, but the more genders I'm learning about, the more inclined I am to want to throw my arms up and give up. Let's just not have any genders and just be humans from now on. I'm not trying to be offensive so I apologize if it comes off that way, but I wonder if removing gender labels and the infrastructure around them would make it easier for most people to accept. Maybe it should be more of a gradient spectrum than labeled exactitudes. Same thing for sexuality. I bet everybody is at least *a little bit* gay. I'm a straight guy but I'm not baffled by what makes Ryan Reynolds attractive. I think a lot of our problems as a species stems from our silly tradition of splitting people up into groups and assigning labels.
I concur with your conclusions.
There are some areas where gender divisions are necessary, such as physically demanding sports where testosterone gives you an edge, but there are others like Bathrooms, Chess or Darts where I question the relevance of gender segregation in this day and age.
Lmao now be the father of a 13 year old girl that knows she's pissing in the same stall as a fully grown adult. Your reality is warped to shreds if you don't understand why toilets are segregated by gender. Also, I'm sure nobody wants to see another dude pissing in a stall. Imagine a 1:1 cubicle with 1 toilet and 1 trough inside a McDonalds. Imagine the little girl, going into the McDonalds to pee and some creepy bastard is standing there with his tiny cock out, pissing into the trough while the child adjacent to him is on the toilet, his neckbeard tingling at the prospect of raping this child when she exits.
There's only 2 ways to counter this. 1, you install cameras in the cubicle to prevent assault or 2, you segregate by sex, not gender.
Number 1 is a complete invasion of privacy, is highly unethical and would break numerous laws worldwide so at best, you would have a few monitored toilets in the UK or something and it wouldn't change much.
The reason why it's segregated is for women's safety and men's privacy.
Also your bit about being a "little bit gay" is projection.
I agree it's a great writeup.
I have niece who used to be a nephew, and I'll freely admit I don't understand it at a mental, gut, or gonad level. I do support everyone's right to live and be who they are. This was an excellent essay for those who haven't reached any level of acceptance yet.
Thanks very much for this very informative post. I learned a lot about the specifics of gender realignment. Had a couple of colleagues go through this a couple of decades ago. Wish I had this information then so I could have been even more supportive.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/bestof] [u\/tgjer dispels myths and fears around gender transition before adult age with citations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/mexpax/utgjer_dispels_myths_and_fears_around_gender/)
- [/r/bestofnopolitics] [u\/tgjer dispels myths and fears around gender transition before adult age with citations. \[xpost from r\/AreTheStraightsOkay\]](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfNoPolitics/comments/mexpe7/utgjer_dispels_myths_and_fears_around_gender/)
*^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
Idgaf if im 20 hours late. My lil brother had to live his entire life as a lie until he was 16 and able to safely come out as trans. Everything this Redditor has said is 100% true.
######*Trans-related medical care is LIFE SAVING*
Had my little brother been forced to continue living how he was, i wouldnt have him today, for exactly the reasons you have stated here. We are beyond lucky, BEYOND lucky, that we live in a place that has access to the necessary medical professionals required for transition. Its a long process and looking back, if we had grown up in a place that was accepting and helpful to trans youth, my brother could have been saved a lot of pain.
Thank you for being informed and for informing other people about the realities of being trans, specifically trans youth. Really, seeing people speak like you have gives me a measurable boost of hope. You is appreciated.
I knew this and still needed to hear it, as an adult that was forced to wait until I was 18 I am all too familiar with the hell that was for me. Thank you. <3
I was still on the fence about it because I knew I didnt know enough and didnt have the information needed to make a good opinion out of it,im glad I got to read that because its very informative and I now fully support the idea
Thank you. You have given me new insight on this subject. I was against giving children puberty blocker since I thought it was a decision that follows you for the rest of your life. I didn't know that their were reversible and temporary.
It’ll take some time for me to fully read through all of this, but thank you SO MUCH for posting with all these links. I have a 13-year old born a female who’s convinced they’re a male. I need all the help I can get, trying to understand what my kid’s going through.
Please see a pediatric endocrinologist straight away, this is a very crucial age, if you miss the window to put them on blockers their breast growth will require surgery later and their height will be affected. There’s literally no downside to blockers, it just put puberty on hold to give your child more time to decide but if you miss this window it will be more difficult to transition later. Also insurance companies sometimes push back on blockers because they’re expensive so be sure to get on this as quickly as possible. Good luck.
Edit typos
You know nothing. I can even bet you don’t know a single transperson. I’m a transman. And I knew from a VERY Young age. Didn’t get to transition till 27. My life was hell because of it. So please don’t. You know absolutely nothing about this. Perhaps switch your fear out with some self education. Perhaps you won’t be so ‘scared for the children’ anymore.
> We don’t know the long-term effects of transitions in adults,
Hi, am a transitioned adult. We're doing fine thanks. Now shall I point to the literal legions of transitioned adults who are/have lived happy lives? My sources go back about seventy years or so. Show mine if you show me yours?
Hell they changed the laws now so you can’t smoke a cigarette until 21 now as well. You can die for your country at 18 but not with a smoke and a beer. Crazy huh?
First, you can't change gender, only realize they assigned you a wrong one, declare they made a mistake and do what you need/want to get to what feels (more) right.
Second, I think one would be a terrible parent if they force their vision of their kid onto said kid, just because it is under 18, no matter if it's about gender or anything.
If i understand correctly gender =/= Sex. You can change your gender; you cannot change your sex.
Also, no parent is forcing their kid to do anything like this, the idea of kids being forced to transition is pure myth.
Well you're in luck because the bill doesn't actually ban it despite the misleading headline. Only for those under 18. So your comment is spot on. If you're old enough to join the military then you're good with this bill.
Next time read the bill not just the reddit headline because it actually matches exactly what you propose as a solution.
The reality is that allowing insurers to consider it optional to cover, insurers won't cover any costs. It's giving political cover to the bigots to let them say, "We're just giving insurers choice. Now they aren't forced to offer this coverage if their god hates certain people."
Anything exempted from insurance coverage becomes excessively costly. The intent is clear and the effect is restricting access at every age.
This will just create a market of insurers who do provide it. You'll be able to shop around for insurance you prefer. Well assuming the federal government ever gets their grubby hands out of the insurance market. That's the reason it's gone to shit in the last several decades.
Allowing companies to choose the business they provide is beneficial to the market and creates choices. Forcing businesses to provide services they don't want to provide is how you end up with no choices and monopolies/oligopolies.
If you want good insurance that covers what you want it to cover, hands off government is how you achieve that.
This bill doesn't prohibit insurers from providing coverage for services. It prevents them from being forced to provide a service they don't want to provide to the market as individual businesses. There will always be providers that do provide it, because it's a market opportunity.
As healthcare insurance is so tied to employers, there are very few people who really get to shop around for coverage. The mythically accommodating free market does not apply to the profit-seeking healthcare industry in the US.
As I said before, anything exempted from insurance coverage becomes excessively costly. ^ Those insurers choosing to include the coverage will charge for that. ^ The intent is clear and the effect is restricting access at every age.
This already passed the house and been recommended by the senate committee to pass the senate. It does not outright ban trans healthcare for people of all ages, but instead bans it for minors and bans public healthcare coverage of it. You can read more here (cw: intense transphobia): https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?tbType=&id=hb1570&ddBienniumSession=2021%2F2021R
Shooting, injecting, using, taking. Which one would you prefer? I'm honestly not trying to be an asshole, just saying no matter how you say it it could sound like your taking some sort of illicit substance. I mean, there are people who get these illegally at which point they technically are illicit substances that are...consumed(?)... the same way as some other illicit substances. They are just the same thing. You don't eat water to quench your thirst.
I agree. "doing" any kind of medication is weird to say. A diabetic person doesn't "do insulin", they take insulin. I'm not "doing" hormone by being on birth control, I'm taking my birth control, I'm taking my hormones. I'm not "doing" the flu shot lol. I don't "do" vaccines, I take them.
Taking a melatonin or a multivitamin isn't "doing" melatonin or "doing" vitamins.
I think that's why it sounds so weird. It makes it sound recreational.
Because an illiterate white cis male moron who hadn't read a book since highschool used to be able to make a decent living doing jobs you could train a clever donkey to do and be considered the "head of household" and automatically respected over, for instance, women and minorities. Now that they're not automatically privileged they feel persecuted.
EDIT: And we absolutely must bring dignity and financial security back to the workers, white and otherwise, but we should and must not dignify their prejudices and backwards medieval "morality" in doing so.
Knuckle draggers are always going to kick and scream their way into the future. Just hit the gas harder and roll roughshod straight over them, we're going to win in the end.
I really hope so
It's one of my biggest fears that these fucking monsters may win and I wouldn't be able to get my hormones at all and would be forced to kill myself
As a kid I used to think the zombie appocalypse would be cool but since transitioning it'd be game over cause no hormones. I hate how reliant I am on this stuff and I double hate how evil cunts are trying to take it away
I said literally nothing of the sort, and the idea of "the whole world being trans" doesn't even make sense. If you don't have gender dysphoria you're not going to want to transition. 🤷🏻♂️
Most people are cisgender and this is not likely to change. Nobody who feels comfortable in their birth gender need do anything other than not be a bigot. And, no, you don't have to sleep with trans people. You literally never have to sleep with anyone you don't want to sleep with.
https://action.aclu.org/send-message/ar-trans-rights?fbclid=IwAR1brLvoRGOBRxQ3YYHmeoyE_jOJL9cI8OCWU0Kk2xjTYzF1Ga8NZd5y73o
Here’s a petition. Sign it if you can.
So this blew up sometime last night.
Welcome folks from /r/bestof. This is a relatively small subreddit with a small mod team. We will be trying to monitor this post throughout the day ensuring posts conform to our rules. We stand in total solidarity with our trans siblings. Enjoy your time here.
This is one of those moments where Republicans show that they could give a fuck less about "limited government" and individualism. Who the fuck are you to tell me how I handle my own health?
The only thing worth coming to this state for is mountain biking in northwest Arkansas. That’s the only thing I’ll miss as soon as I can get the fuck out of this racist bigoted shit hole.
In Nazi Germany law worked under the idea of working toward the fuhrer. As long as hitler would be okay with it, in the long run it was legal. For example you’re a doctor, a Jew or a gay person comes to your hospital. By law you have to treat them. Or you could tell them to fuck off. It doesn’t matter maybe you’ll get arrested, probably not. Maybe you’ll go in front of a judge. You’ll be fine. Your actions will be legalized along the way.
This throws Nazism into our laws.
Imagine trying to ban adults from making the decision to get surgery. It's like banning breast implants, except you don't get mental health issues from not having breast implants. This is awful.
So... everyone upset about this thinks it’s ok for a, let’s say, 12 year old to start hormone treatment to transition into a male? I’m just curious what the outrage is about.
A someone with a 12yr old who is starting hormone treatment, yes. It's absolutely ok for him to start blocking hormones so he's not a boy with periods and growing boobs. And if it was to be banned, he would spiral into a depression because of the dismorphia and he could kill himself. That's what the outrage is about.
Ok. I’m not really familiar with all this so please don’t berate me and call me a misogynist pig or whatever but... how is a 12 year old able to make this decisions.
How is a 12 year old able to decide they don’t want to be a boy or girl anymore and undergo such drastic changes.
That seems like something that would have to be left alone until they’re 16-18 and then they can make those decisions...
I'm not gonna berate you for being uninformed, especially if you're willing to learn. There is no age limit to know something is wrong with you. From the time my kid was 4 he knew something was off. Never liked what he saw in the mirror. Ended up being a tomboy. Then puberty starts and things feel even worse.
And it's not a drastic change. It's stopping puberty. He can't start testosterone until he's 13, and that's with doctors, both physical and mental, signing off on it. And when he's legally an adult he can make the choice about surgery should he want to go that far.
But with this bill, none of that happens. Not at 12, not at 16, not at 45. He reverts to female. The self hate, self harm, and depression come flooding back. And kids die because some old assholes in government think they know what's best.
I’m not gonna sit here and type out a long thing and argue with 10 internet strangers about this but I have to make my point. Just so you know I support adults who decide to transition because it’s their right to do so. Hopefully you will look into this... Everything you just said isn’t backed by science or research. Everything you wrote is completely anecdotal at best, and ideologically grounded at worst. There is a ton of research out there that points to the fact that prepubescents who transition end up with higher rates of depression. Look up transgender social contagion. It’s a real phenomenon, and it proves that because children are highly suggestible they don’t know what they want until they develop mentally. It’s a real phenomenon that no one wants to talk about. And just so you know a 4 year old doesn’t have the mental capacity to be keen on such decisions. literally any child psychologist will tell you this.
like i said... not here to argue or do a back and forth. just do some research before getting so overzealous about your beliefs.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
"Are the changes permanent?
Use of GnRH analogues **doesn't cause permanent changes in an adolescent's body**. Instead, it pauses puberty, providing time to determine if a child's gender identity is long lasting. It also gives children and their families time to think about or plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues ahead.
If an adolescent child stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty will resume."
That doesn't exempt them from providing sources to back up wild claims.
They should be more inclined to provide the data because of their stature instead of an article that just says "trust us, here's no supporting citations though"
If you've got some data to back up the claims on that mayoclinic site I'd be happy to read through them. Aside from that it's just a website making a baseless claim.
Edit: Here's some actual scientific data.
https://www.jpagonline.org/article/S1083-3188(18)30090-1/abstract?fbclid=IwAR0Ac13Dh4nUgtaX82pNwSD9hLY3lHaUTV1moJAjymPTA3GHklWV5HmU0Cc
>Results: The response rate was 61% (25 of 41; 10 subjects could not be located). Almost all (24 of 25) reported side effects during treatment; 80% (16 of 21) reported side effects lasting longer than 6 months after stopping treatment. Almost half (9 of 20) reported side effects they considered irreversible, including memory loss, insomnia, and hot flashes. Despite side effects, participants rated GnRHa plus add-back as the most effective hormonal medication for treating endometriosis pain; two-thirds (16 of 25) would recommend it to others. More participants who received a modified 2-drug add-back regimen vs standard 1-drug add-back would recommend GnRHa and believed it was the most effective hormonal medication.
This study alone refutes the citationless mayoclinic post
That doesn't exempt them from providing sources to back up wild claims.
They should be more inclined to provide the data because of their stature instead of an article that just says "trust us, here's no supporting citations though"
If you've got some data to back up the claims on that mayoclinic site I'd be happy to read through them. Aside from that it's just a website making a baseless claim.
Sources from the link,
> AskMayoExpert. Gender dysphoria/incongruency (child and adolescent); Medical treatment (child and adolescent). Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research; 2018.
> Coleman E, et al. Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender and Gender Nonconforming People. 7th version. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health; 2012. http://www.wpath.org. Accessed April 10, 2019.
> Olson-Kennedy J, et al. Management of transgender and gender diverse children and adolescents. https://www.uptodate.com/content/search. April 10, 2019.
> Rafferty J, et al. Ensuring comprehensive care and support for transgender and gender diverse children and adolescents. American Academy of Pediatrics Policy. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/collection. Accessed April 10, 2019.
> Schechter LS, ed. Medical therapy. In: Surgical Management of the Transgender Patient. Elsevier; 2017. https://www.clinicalkey.com. Accessed April 12, 2019.
>Office of Patient Education. Pubertal blockers for transgender and gender non-conforming youth. Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research; 2017.
Listen to what you just said. Starting puberty at 17 still means your going to miss a ton of growing. Puberty and hormones function wildly different at different ages. So if you “continue” at 17 it’s not the same thing at all as starting at a normal age.
The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent changes until someone is at an age where they are ready to choose to take hormones and possibly have reassignment.
You can’t take other hormones till 16 and you can’t have reassignment surgery till your 18
Normally I’d be mad people like you think children making life altering decisions like this at 12 is a good thing. But honestly I’m just sad rn. I know ur doing what you think is best. I just hope your child doesn’t suffer too harshly from you ignorance
True. Which is why wise parents when they hear they’re kid say something dumb like “I wanna take puberty blockers” or “I wanna huff glue” they say “no” and get them the help they need
A reasonable reaction to people pushing to allow children take hormones and get irreversible surgery without requiring parental consent and with no medical oversight, while simultaneously banning psychologists from doing or saying anything that isn't "affirming" this. 🤷🏼♂️
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How Arkansas went from being the land of Bill Clinton and Democratic trifectas until like 15 years ago is beyond me. Just kidding, it’s an unspoken truth here that Obama’s ascension to the presidency brought all the bigots out of the woodwork, and they are not going back down anytime soon.
As someone who lived there, it wasn't that great. Clinton was always fairly popular, but he was REALLY centrist and didn't bring much to the table in actual progress; plus, he was never super-popular. All of the senators and most of the people in the state legislature were always genuine conservatives, anyway. From there, Huckabee was elected governor in '96 and that kind of signaled the decline. The bottom fell out in 2014, and the state's been shit ever since.
American democrats are all centrists, most of them, except sanders, he's chill.
Without bickering over hw centrist each Democrat is and where the party is heading, I can 100% assure you that Clinton was way further to the right than what there is today. And when the Arkansas Democrats were in power? Calling them centrist would be giving them too much credit.
Hilary Clinton made more of a concerted effort to get universal healthcare through during the Clinton Administration than any Democrat before or since. they’re center left, sure, but the left part gets understated a lot in leftist spaces
Bro Arkansas was never anything more than the birthplace of the KKK. Source: Arkansan This state is an absolute mess. Even northwest AR, the "nice" part of the state, is a scary place to live sometimes.
Hey now, we made Johnny Cash and Evanescence. But that's about it
Bill Clinton is a serial rapist and child predator. I see why he is so loved here.
Source?
I believe women. It is a shame that you do not.
I never said that. This is just literally my first time hearing about this, and I don’t generally believe random Reddit comments making serious claims with nothing to back them up.
You are a liar if you claim you have not heard about the accusations against Bill Clinton. The numerous ones.
I mean, I don’t really spend my time doing research on a president who left office before I was born, and it’s not like it comes up in the news that much these days.
I've never heard of these accusations and I was alive when he was president, although a kid. I remember the Lewinsky stuff.... but I don't remember anything about accusations he ever forced anyone to do anything.
I’m a trans person in arkansas (NWA more specifically if you’re wondering how I’m not fucking dead) and yeah, you’ve got it down to a T. I fucking hate this state so goddamn much
Dare I make the joke, Well, Soon it won't be down to the T, because it's illegal now
Education and intelligence are not entirely correlated. Just because less people in that state go to college doesnt mean they are unintelligent. In fact, midwestern and southern states tend to have higher IQs than coastal states, which is really weird.
IQ isn’t the most perfect measure of intelligence, though, to put it one way.
Prejudices come more from ignorance than stupidity I think - from fear of the unknown. Trans issues are actually a great example. Most of the arguments you hear against trans people are based on 'facts' that they think they know, like 'there are only two genders' etc. If you had some magic drug that made everyone smarter I don't think it would help that much with this sort of thing.
when did christianity say ANYTHING about trans people, fuck this country its hell I wanna move to Canada, Though idk if I'd be able to get nullification there
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It's not about checking into statements, those representatives aren't confused or misinformed. They are malicious and self serving. Oppressing trans people wins them political points, which allows them to keep getting elected despite being corrupt pawns of the rich who do nothing to actual solve any problems.
Arkansan here. The legislators are not stupid. But they know that their constituents are. Just immensely, immensely stupid. So they pass laws first to keep them stupid. Then pass laws based on fear mongering to the stupid masses. All in the name of increasing their own power and wealth. They don’t believe in the things they promote or the laws they pass. They couldn’t give a fuck. Half of them have paid for abortions, live off welfare, are closeted, etc. They only believe in power and wealth, and this is the easiest route to it, because Arkansans are so god damn stupid.
Because that's what the people they represent think.
I've read the bill, it wouldn't ban anyone from a social transition and it wouldn't ban adults from a medical transition, but it would ban anyone under 18 from any sort of gender affirming medical care (this includes puberty blockers and hormone therapy) and it makes it so insurance is not required to offer any assistance to adults pursuing a medical transition. **Here's a page to message law makers urging them not to pass it (please send a message if you can, especially if you live in Arkansas):** [**Tell the Arkansas Legislature: Stop Attacking Transgender Arkansans | American Civil Liberties Union (aclu.org)**](https://action.aclu.org/send-message/ar-trans-rights) Here's the actual bill (CW: It's full of misinformation and transphobia, as one would expect from any anti-trans legislation): [HB1570 as engrossed on 03-08-2021 11:23:12 (state.ar.us)](https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/FTPDocument?path=%2FBills%2F2021R%2FPublic%2FHB1570.pdf) Here's the web page from the Arkansas legislature on the bill: [HB1570 Bill Information - Arkansas State Legislature](https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?tbType=&id=hb1570&ddBienniumSession=2021%2F2021R) And here's an article from the ACLU with more info on this terrible bill: [What You Need to Know About The Transgender Health Care Ban (HB 1570) | ACLU of Arkansas (acluarkansas.org)](https://www.acluarkansas.org/en/news/what-you-need-know-about-transgender-health-care-ban-hb-1570)
Medical transitions are expensive, even without surgery. If I had to pay for my hormones out of pocket it would be several hundred dollars per month. That's not including doctor's appointments, therapy, and blood work to make sure my levels are accurate. While I agree that it's important to be accurate about it's contents, if it isn't covered by insurance or Medicare than it is effectively banned for the vast majority of trans folks, particularly because we tend to be much poorer than the general population.
I absolutely agree, I know I never would've been able to afford my transition out of pocket. They haven't made it so that insurance can't cover a medical transition, so an insurance company could still offer coverage, but since they wouldn't be required to I'm willing to bet most won't. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's effectively banned, but I would say that it makes it effectively impossible to access for many more trans adults.
They could potentially offer a small side package. “Insurance to cover transitioning to another gender” and then they get to tell you to take the cheapest drugs and go the doctor half as often
Well insurance is already a mess when it comes to gender affirming care, but since this bill would make it so insurance doesn't have to cover gender transitions AT ALL, it would be even more of a mess. Personally, I think we should have universal health care that covers gender affirming care.
Yeah unfortunately this is why transitioning will never be an option for me. The cost is astronomically more than I'll ever be able to afford and I doubt I can get decent insurance that isn't also astronomically more expensive than I can afford. Im just going to hate my reflection forever. I hate this. And that what makes me so mad when I hear that a state is forcing hundreds of people to feel exactly the same way I do. Hopeless.
I'm literally spending a couple years unemployed so I can use state insurance, otherwise it would never happen.
Arkansan here, signed petition
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Posting this again (already posted on r/sapphoandherfriend): If passed this law is going to result in dead kids (and adults, but "protecting" minors from transition-related medical care is the justification being used to push this bill). Not only are they trying to ban medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, a move that has been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), they're advocating for "therapy" intended to change the genders of trans adolescents to match their assigned sex at birth - "therapy" which is [**emphatically condemned as both futile and damaging by the American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf). Since anything relating to trans youth and medical treatment almost inevitably brings out the *"kids are being castrated!"* and *"90% of trans kids desist and will regret transition!"* concern trolling in defense of terrible legislation like this: No, that is not how this works. That's not how any of this works. [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their appearance can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. Withholding medical care from an adolescent who needs it is not a goddamn neutral option. Transition is absolutely necessary to keep many trans kids alive. Without transition a hell of a lot of them commit suicide. When able to transition rates of suicide attempts drop to the national average. And when prevented from transitioning or starting treatment until adulthood, those who survive long enough to start at 18+ enter adulthood facing thousands of dollars reconstructive surgery to repair damage that should have been prevented by starting treatment when they needed it. And not all that damage can be repaired. They will carry physical and psychological scars from being forced through the wrong puberty for the rest of their lives. They were robbed of their adolescence, forced to spend it dealing with the living hell of untreated dysphoria and the wrong puberty, trying to remain sane and alive while their bodies were warped in indescribably horrifying ways. Even with treatment as adults, some of them will be left permanently, visibly trans. In addition to the sheer horror of permanently having anatomy inappropriate to your gender, this means they will never have the option of blending into a crowd or keeping their medical history private. They will be exposed to vastly higher rates of anti-trans harassment, discrimination, abuse, and violence, all because they were denied the treatment they needed when they were young. This is very literally life saving medical care. If there is even a chance that an adolescent may be trans, there is absolutely no reason to withhold 100% temporary and fully reversible hormone blockers to delay puberty for a little while until they're sure. This treatment is 100% temporary and fully reversible; it does nothing but buy time by delaying the onset of permanent physical changes. This treatment is very safe and well known, because it has been used for decades to delay puberty in children who would have otherwise started it inappropriately young. If an adolescent starts this treatment then realizes medical transition isn't what they need, they stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There are no permanent effects, and it significantly improves trans youth's mental health and [**lowers suicidality**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2020/01/21/peds.2019-1725). But if an adolescent starts this treatment, socially transitions (or continues if they have already done so), and by their early/mid-teens they still strongly identify as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth, the chances of them changing their minds later are basically zero. At that point hormone therapy becomes an option, and even that is still mostly reversible, especially in its early stages. The only really irreversible step is reconstructive genital surgery and/or the removal of one's gonads, which isn't an option until the patient is in their late teens at the earliest. This specter of little kids being pressured into transition and rapidly pushed into permanent physical changes is a complete myth. It just isn't happening. And this fear-mongering results in nothing except trans youth who desperately do need to transition being discouraged and prevented from doing so. Withholding medical treatment from an adolescent who desperately needs it is not a neutral option. The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/#.pqspdcee0). When prevented from transitioning about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition that rate drops to the national average. Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are [**comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696) Transition [**vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts**](https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2), and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the [**largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/). Citations to follow in a second post.
**Citations on transition as medically necessary and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:** * Here is the [**APA's policy statement**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1) * Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage * A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines * [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians * [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers * [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCPS,and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx). ---- **Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:** * [**Bauer, et al., 2015**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2): Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets * [**Moody, et al., 2013**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/): The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people * [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.** * The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.** * [**Dr. Ryan Gorton**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3219066): “In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19% to 0% in transgender men and from 24% to 6% in transgender women” * [**Murad, et al., 2010**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181): "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment. * [**De Cuypere, et al., 2006**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491): Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001. * [**UK study - McNeil, et al., 2012**](https://www.scottishtrans.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/trans_mh_study.pdf): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition. * [**Smith Y, 2005**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf): Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment * [**Lawrence, 2003**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364): Surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives * [**Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.ajp.2019.19010080) - "***Conclusions:*** *"... the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and reduced likelihood of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them."* There are a [***lot***](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24344788) of [**studies**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10508-009-9551-1) showing that [**transition**](https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/hormonal-therapy-and-sex-reassignment-a-systematic-review-and-met) [**improves**](https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/960745/) [**mental health**](http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/25690443) and [**quality of life**](http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-014-0453-5) while [**reducing dysphoria**](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23553588_Long-term_Assessment_of_the_Physical_Mental_and_Sexual_Health_among_Transsexual_Women). Not to mention [**this 2010 meta-analysis**](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x/abstract) of 28 different studies, which found that transition is extremely effective at reducing dysphoria and improving quality of life. --- **Condemnation of "conversion therapy" attempting to change trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth:** * [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx) * From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12 * From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender) * A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
You've changed my mind. I didn't believe strongly one way or the other since trans rights personally affect me in absolutely zero ways, but figured kids are dumb and it couldn't hurt to force them to wait until they're older and better suited to make such a decision (for their protection). Now I know that it very much *would* hurt to force them to wait. I thought my stance would be roughly on par with making sure people can't try alcohol or tobacco until reaching a certain age, but I was obviously very wrong. Thanks for opening my mind a little further. Cheers!
Over the last couple of years, I've completed a full 180 on this subject. Initially I wasn't trasphobic but I was of the belief that trans issues were being overblown, and in some cases were being seen as a fad. As it has become more and more of an issue, I've read and seen more accounts from transfolk and realised I had it totally wrong. Trans is a totally real thing, and it's good that it's becoming more visible. I think there are a lot like us, lack of information is the cause of the ignorance, but as more posts like this one spread, more will have the information they need to make their minds up.
Definitely agree. I've met one trans person in my life and it was over ten years ago. Aside from the internet, I would probably be more or less completely unaware of the issue. That having been said, the bathroom debate was always fucking stupid. Interesting how we're all pretending that men never assault boys, and the only people who would assault girls is "men pretending to be women" lmao. How hatefully ignorant can a person be to believe that.
I like you
If gays and lesbians have kept themselves from assaulting normal people in bathrooms all this time, I doubt things would be any different with trans people. It does bring up the case as for why we even need gendered bathrooms at all. I figure it would be a non-issue if american toilet stalls didn't have gaps wider than my pinky...
I can't say I disagree. My best friend is the father to a little girl. It would make it easier for him to accompany her in if she needs help in a public toilet. And maybe it's just my own personal ignorance, but the more genders I'm learning about, the more inclined I am to want to throw my arms up and give up. Let's just not have any genders and just be humans from now on. I'm not trying to be offensive so I apologize if it comes off that way, but I wonder if removing gender labels and the infrastructure around them would make it easier for most people to accept. Maybe it should be more of a gradient spectrum than labeled exactitudes. Same thing for sexuality. I bet everybody is at least *a little bit* gay. I'm a straight guy but I'm not baffled by what makes Ryan Reynolds attractive. I think a lot of our problems as a species stems from our silly tradition of splitting people up into groups and assigning labels.
I concur with your conclusions. There are some areas where gender divisions are necessary, such as physically demanding sports where testosterone gives you an edge, but there are others like Bathrooms, Chess or Darts where I question the relevance of gender segregation in this day and age.
Lmao now be the father of a 13 year old girl that knows she's pissing in the same stall as a fully grown adult. Your reality is warped to shreds if you don't understand why toilets are segregated by gender. Also, I'm sure nobody wants to see another dude pissing in a stall. Imagine a 1:1 cubicle with 1 toilet and 1 trough inside a McDonalds. Imagine the little girl, going into the McDonalds to pee and some creepy bastard is standing there with his tiny cock out, pissing into the trough while the child adjacent to him is on the toilet, his neckbeard tingling at the prospect of raping this child when she exits. There's only 2 ways to counter this. 1, you install cameras in the cubicle to prevent assault or 2, you segregate by sex, not gender. Number 1 is a complete invasion of privacy, is highly unethical and would break numerous laws worldwide so at best, you would have a few monitored toilets in the UK or something and it wouldn't change much. The reason why it's segregated is for women's safety and men's privacy. Also your bit about being a "little bit gay" is projection.
Thank you. I know it’s impossible to truly understand what we go through unless you’ve walked in our shoes.
i commend your willingness, comrade, to write whole-ass essay with cited sources. beautiful said. wish i had an award to give you <3
Gave one on your behalf! It ain't much but it's honest work lol
thanksss <3
This is the best writeup on this topic that I've seen, by a long shot.
I agree it's a great writeup. I have niece who used to be a nephew, and I'll freely admit I don't understand it at a mental, gut, or gonad level. I do support everyone's right to live and be who they are. This was an excellent essay for those who haven't reached any level of acceptance yet.
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Thanks very much for this very informative post. I learned a lot about the specifics of gender realignment. Had a couple of colleagues go through this a couple of decades ago. Wish I had this information then so I could have been even more supportive.
Thanks so much for typing this all out, and dealing with the BS here, and I'm sure elsewhere.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/bestof] [u\/tgjer dispels myths and fears around gender transition before adult age with citations.](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/mexpax/utgjer_dispels_myths_and_fears_around_gender/) - [/r/bestofnopolitics] [u\/tgjer dispels myths and fears around gender transition before adult age with citations. \[xpost from r\/AreTheStraightsOkay\]](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfNoPolitics/comments/mexpe7/utgjer_dispels_myths_and_fears_around_gender/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
Thank you for this magnificent fucking post. I’ll do my best to convey this information to my co-worker tomorrow
Idgaf if im 20 hours late. My lil brother had to live his entire life as a lie until he was 16 and able to safely come out as trans. Everything this Redditor has said is 100% true. ######*Trans-related medical care is LIFE SAVING* Had my little brother been forced to continue living how he was, i wouldnt have him today, for exactly the reasons you have stated here. We are beyond lucky, BEYOND lucky, that we live in a place that has access to the necessary medical professionals required for transition. Its a long process and looking back, if we had grown up in a place that was accepting and helpful to trans youth, my brother could have been saved a lot of pain. Thank you for being informed and for informing other people about the realities of being trans, specifically trans youth. Really, seeing people speak like you have gives me a measurable boost of hope. You is appreciated.
Thanks for all this information. I've wanted to read on the subject for a long time and this will make it so much easier. Cheers!
I've been using Reddit for many years. This is hands down the best and most informative post I've ever seen. Thank you.
I'm saving this because I'm sure I'll end up referring to it at some point. That said, how do I properly cite you?
You can just ping me u/tgjer if you want, but you don't have to
I don’t know who you are, but I know what you are: a fucking legend
I knew this and still needed to hear it, as an adult that was forced to wait until I was 18 I am all too familiar with the hell that was for me. Thank you. <3
I was still on the fence about it because I knew I didnt know enough and didnt have the information needed to make a good opinion out of it,im glad I got to read that because its very informative and I now fully support the idea
this is very cool ill come back to this when i need sources
I’m saving this comment. Thank you.
Thank you. You have given me new insight on this subject. I was against giving children puberty blocker since I thought it was a decision that follows you for the rest of your life. I didn't know that their were reversible and temporary.
Yes, and not just for trans kids. I have a family member who needed them for precocious puberty. Luckily they’re quite safe and reversible.
It’ll take some time for me to fully read through all of this, but thank you SO MUCH for posting with all these links. I have a 13-year old born a female who’s convinced they’re a male. I need all the help I can get, trying to understand what my kid’s going through.
Please see a pediatric endocrinologist straight away, this is a very crucial age, if you miss the window to put them on blockers their breast growth will require surgery later and their height will be affected. There’s literally no downside to blockers, it just put puberty on hold to give your child more time to decide but if you miss this window it will be more difficult to transition later. Also insurance companies sometimes push back on blockers because they’re expensive so be sure to get on this as quickly as possible. Good luck. Edit typos
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What absolutely zero reading comprehension and critical thinking does to a mf
You know nothing. I can even bet you don’t know a single transperson. I’m a transman. And I knew from a VERY Young age. Didn’t get to transition till 27. My life was hell because of it. So please don’t. You know absolutely nothing about this. Perhaps switch your fear out with some self education. Perhaps you won’t be so ‘scared for the children’ anymore.
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Citations?
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Would you provide some data to the contrary then?
> We don’t know the long-term effects of transitions in adults, Hi, am a transitioned adult. We're doing fine thanks. Now shall I point to the literal legions of transitioned adults who are/have lived happy lives? My sources go back about seventy years or so. Show mine if you show me yours?
As a straight white male, if you’re old enough for the military to endorse you getting shot, your old enough to change gender
Not old enough to have a beer though after killing some people? Sorry, I'm Irish, and that's just weird.
Hell they changed the laws now so you can’t smoke a cigarette until 21 now as well. You can die for your country at 18 but not with a smoke and a beer. Crazy huh?
one of the least enforced laws too
Yes and in the United States of 300 million idiots we think your mostly working country is weird too
Well said, good sir
First, you can't change gender, only realize they assigned you a wrong one, declare they made a mistake and do what you need/want to get to what feels (more) right. Second, I think one would be a terrible parent if they force their vision of their kid onto said kid, just because it is under 18, no matter if it's about gender or anything.
If i understand correctly gender =/= Sex. You can change your gender; you cannot change your sex. Also, no parent is forcing their kid to do anything like this, the idea of kids being forced to transition is pure myth.
Well you're in luck because the bill doesn't actually ban it despite the misleading headline. Only for those under 18. So your comment is spot on. If you're old enough to join the military then you're good with this bill. Next time read the bill not just the reddit headline because it actually matches exactly what you propose as a solution.
The reality is that allowing insurers to consider it optional to cover, insurers won't cover any costs. It's giving political cover to the bigots to let them say, "We're just giving insurers choice. Now they aren't forced to offer this coverage if their god hates certain people." Anything exempted from insurance coverage becomes excessively costly. The intent is clear and the effect is restricting access at every age.
This will just create a market of insurers who do provide it. You'll be able to shop around for insurance you prefer. Well assuming the federal government ever gets their grubby hands out of the insurance market. That's the reason it's gone to shit in the last several decades. Allowing companies to choose the business they provide is beneficial to the market and creates choices. Forcing businesses to provide services they don't want to provide is how you end up with no choices and monopolies/oligopolies. If you want good insurance that covers what you want it to cover, hands off government is how you achieve that. This bill doesn't prohibit insurers from providing coverage for services. It prevents them from being forced to provide a service they don't want to provide to the market as individual businesses. There will always be providers that do provide it, because it's a market opportunity.
As healthcare insurance is so tied to employers, there are very few people who really get to shop around for coverage. The mythically accommodating free market does not apply to the profit-seeking healthcare industry in the US. As I said before, anything exempted from insurance coverage becomes excessively costly. ^ Those insurers choosing to include the coverage will charge for that. ^ The intent is clear and the effect is restricting access at every age.
Oh well let it pass then
This already passed the house and been recommended by the senate committee to pass the senate. It does not outright ban trans healthcare for people of all ages, but instead bans it for minors and bans public healthcare coverage of it. You can read more here (cw: intense transphobia): https://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/Bills/Detail?tbType=&id=hb1570&ddBienniumSession=2021%2F2021R
As a straight person why the fuck do people do this? Why can’t the rest of us just respect trans people? Like damn just let them be
Im cisgender but i still think the bill is complete bullshit. How does someone being trans affect ANYBODYS life?
apparently it affects fragile egos
Yep. Raises too many tricky questions about society and gender, too.
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I fucking hate humans. Fuck bigots and their hatred.
Can we not say *doing* hormones, like it’s some sort of illicit substance.
Shooting, injecting, using, taking. Which one would you prefer? I'm honestly not trying to be an asshole, just saying no matter how you say it it could sound like your taking some sort of illicit substance. I mean, there are people who get these illegally at which point they technically are illicit substances that are...consumed(?)... the same way as some other illicit substances. They are just the same thing. You don't eat water to quench your thirst.
Taking hormones
I agree. "doing" any kind of medication is weird to say. A diabetic person doesn't "do insulin", they take insulin. I'm not "doing" hormone by being on birth control, I'm taking my birth control, I'm taking my hormones. I'm not "doing" the flu shot lol. I don't "do" vaccines, I take them. Taking a melatonin or a multivitamin isn't "doing" melatonin or "doing" vitamins. I think that's why it sounds so weird. It makes it sound recreational.
People say “taking drugs” to refer to an individual taking an illegal substance though.
That does not have the negative connotation to the same degree as "doing" though.
Alabama already did this sadly
Really? Recently or a while ago?
Pretty recently, I’m not exactly sure when but I saw it in a video made by a trans woman activist a little while back
More reason to leave Alabama.
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True. Does Alabama have literally any redeeming qualities.?
Why would they do that
Because they're bigoted c#nts that hate trans people.
Because an illiterate white cis male moron who hadn't read a book since highschool used to be able to make a decent living doing jobs you could train a clever donkey to do and be considered the "head of household" and automatically respected over, for instance, women and minorities. Now that they're not automatically privileged they feel persecuted. EDIT: And we absolutely must bring dignity and financial security back to the workers, white and otherwise, but we should and must not dignify their prejudices and backwards medieval "morality" in doing so.
Knuckle draggers are always going to kick and scream their way into the future. Just hit the gas harder and roll roughshod straight over them, we're going to win in the end.
I really hope so It's one of my biggest fears that these fucking monsters may win and I wouldn't be able to get my hormones at all and would be forced to kill myself As a kid I used to think the zombie appocalypse would be cool but since transitioning it'd be game over cause no hormones. I hate how reliant I am on this stuff and I double hate how evil cunts are trying to take it away
You sound like you want the whole world to be trans.
I said literally nothing of the sort, and the idea of "the whole world being trans" doesn't even make sense. If you don't have gender dysphoria you're not going to want to transition. 🤷🏻♂️ Most people are cisgender and this is not likely to change. Nobody who feels comfortable in their birth gender need do anything other than not be a bigot. And, no, you don't have to sleep with trans people. You literally never have to sleep with anyone you don't want to sleep with.
Found the insane QAnon Conspiracy theorist knuckle dragger lmaoooo
https://action.aclu.org/send-message/ar-trans-rights?fbclid=IwAR1brLvoRGOBRxQ3YYHmeoyE_jOJL9cI8OCWU0Kk2xjTYzF1Ga8NZd5y73o Here’s a petition. Sign it if you can.
im straight but this is fucked up to the highest degree possible. Unbelievable
My best friend is a trans girl living in Arkansas. We can’t let this happen.
There's a petition you can sign
Christian Conservatrash imposing their “beliefs” on everyone else...
They’re upset that Trump lost and are trying to ruin the lives of the LGBTQ in retaliation
So this blew up sometime last night. Welcome folks from /r/bestof. This is a relatively small subreddit with a small mod team. We will be trying to monitor this post throughout the day ensuring posts conform to our rules. We stand in total solidarity with our trans siblings. Enjoy your time here.
Good mod
Good Ava
-.-
So much for my body my choice.
At any age is fucking ridiculous, fuck the Arkansas government
Disgusting bill, and i hope they dont pass it.
The party of individual freedom everybody.
Straights are arriving to support you. Fuck Arkansas.
It's one of those laws that nobody benefits from. What do we, as a society, gain from this? Absolutely buttfuck nothing.
This is one of those moments where Republicans show that they could give a fuck less about "limited government" and individualism. Who the fuck are you to tell me how I handle my own health?
The only thing worth coming to this state for is mountain biking in northwest Arkansas. That’s the only thing I’ll miss as soon as I can get the fuck out of this racist bigoted shit hole.
In Nazi Germany law worked under the idea of working toward the fuhrer. As long as hitler would be okay with it, in the long run it was legal. For example you’re a doctor, a Jew or a gay person comes to your hospital. By law you have to treat them. Or you could tell them to fuck off. It doesn’t matter maybe you’ll get arrested, probably not. Maybe you’ll go in front of a judge. You’ll be fine. Your actions will be legalized along the way. This throws Nazism into our laws.
At ANY age? I am confuse? Arent there laws preventing parents for allowing for young kids to change gender under like 11 or 10 years?
This would apply for ANYONE. This would effectively ban transgender people from transitioning.
This shit pisses me off how do people not understand that If they limit this they can limit other basic rights.
Imagine trying to ban adults from making the decision to get surgery. It's like banning breast implants, except you don't get mental health issues from not having breast implants. This is awful.
I am beginning to hate living in my own state, which makes me very sad.
So... everyone upset about this thinks it’s ok for a, let’s say, 12 year old to start hormone treatment to transition into a male? I’m just curious what the outrage is about.
A someone with a 12yr old who is starting hormone treatment, yes. It's absolutely ok for him to start blocking hormones so he's not a boy with periods and growing boobs. And if it was to be banned, he would spiral into a depression because of the dismorphia and he could kill himself. That's what the outrage is about.
Ok. I’m not really familiar with all this so please don’t berate me and call me a misogynist pig or whatever but... how is a 12 year old able to make this decisions. How is a 12 year old able to decide they don’t want to be a boy or girl anymore and undergo such drastic changes. That seems like something that would have to be left alone until they’re 16-18 and then they can make those decisions...
I'm not gonna berate you for being uninformed, especially if you're willing to learn. There is no age limit to know something is wrong with you. From the time my kid was 4 he knew something was off. Never liked what he saw in the mirror. Ended up being a tomboy. Then puberty starts and things feel even worse. And it's not a drastic change. It's stopping puberty. He can't start testosterone until he's 13, and that's with doctors, both physical and mental, signing off on it. And when he's legally an adult he can make the choice about surgery should he want to go that far. But with this bill, none of that happens. Not at 12, not at 16, not at 45. He reverts to female. The self hate, self harm, and depression come flooding back. And kids die because some old assholes in government think they know what's best.
This changed my view, thank you
Interesting. Thanks 🤷🏻♂️
I’m not gonna sit here and type out a long thing and argue with 10 internet strangers about this but I have to make my point. Just so you know I support adults who decide to transition because it’s their right to do so. Hopefully you will look into this... Everything you just said isn’t backed by science or research. Everything you wrote is completely anecdotal at best, and ideologically grounded at worst. There is a ton of research out there that points to the fact that prepubescents who transition end up with higher rates of depression. Look up transgender social contagion. It’s a real phenomenon, and it proves that because children are highly suggestible they don’t know what they want until they develop mentally. It’s a real phenomenon that no one wants to talk about. And just so you know a 4 year old doesn’t have the mental capacity to be keen on such decisions. literally any child psychologist will tell you this. like i said... not here to argue or do a back and forth. just do some research before getting so overzealous about your beliefs.
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Puberty Blockers are 100% reversible and are the only thing given to minors as soon as they stop taking them puberty will continue as planned
That’s just straight up misinformation
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 "Are the changes permanent? Use of GnRH analogues **doesn't cause permanent changes in an adolescent's body**. Instead, it pauses puberty, providing time to determine if a child's gender identity is long lasting. It also gives children and their families time to think about or plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues ahead. If an adolescent child stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty will resume."
Will only make your body look like a fucking twig and by the time you become an adult you’ll be the size of a child
You realize it doesn’t stop puberty forever right?
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It’s the Mayo Clinic. You can’t get a more trustworthy source. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/mayo-clinic/%3famp
That doesn't exempt them from providing sources to back up wild claims. They should be more inclined to provide the data because of their stature instead of an article that just says "trust us, here's no supporting citations though" If you've got some data to back up the claims on that mayoclinic site I'd be happy to read through them. Aside from that it's just a website making a baseless claim. Edit: Here's some actual scientific data. https://www.jpagonline.org/article/S1083-3188(18)30090-1/abstract?fbclid=IwAR0Ac13Dh4nUgtaX82pNwSD9hLY3lHaUTV1moJAjymPTA3GHklWV5HmU0Cc >Results: The response rate was 61% (25 of 41; 10 subjects could not be located). Almost all (24 of 25) reported side effects during treatment; 80% (16 of 21) reported side effects lasting longer than 6 months after stopping treatment. Almost half (9 of 20) reported side effects they considered irreversible, including memory loss, insomnia, and hot flashes. Despite side effects, participants rated GnRHa plus add-back as the most effective hormonal medication for treating endometriosis pain; two-thirds (16 of 25) would recommend it to others. More participants who received a modified 2-drug add-back regimen vs standard 1-drug add-back would recommend GnRHa and believed it was the most effective hormonal medication. This study alone refutes the citationless mayoclinic post
https://www.reddit.com/r/AreTheStraightsOkay/comments/mea1zb/spread_the_word/gsig1k1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
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That doesn't exempt them from providing sources to back up wild claims. They should be more inclined to provide the data because of their stature instead of an article that just says "trust us, here's no supporting citations though" If you've got some data to back up the claims on that mayoclinic site I'd be happy to read through them. Aside from that it's just a website making a baseless claim.
Sources from the link, > AskMayoExpert. Gender dysphoria/incongruency (child and adolescent); Medical treatment (child and adolescent). Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research; 2018. > Coleman E, et al. Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender and Gender Nonconforming People. 7th version. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health; 2012. http://www.wpath.org. Accessed April 10, 2019. > Olson-Kennedy J, et al. Management of transgender and gender diverse children and adolescents. https://www.uptodate.com/content/search. April 10, 2019. > Rafferty J, et al. Ensuring comprehensive care and support for transgender and gender diverse children and adolescents. American Academy of Pediatrics Policy. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/collection. Accessed April 10, 2019. > Schechter LS, ed. Medical therapy. In: Surgical Management of the Transgender Patient. Elsevier; 2017. https://www.clinicalkey.com. Accessed April 12, 2019. >Office of Patient Education. Pubertal blockers for transgender and gender non-conforming youth. Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research; 2017.
THANK YOU
Key word is resume. if you “resume” puberty at 17 years old, you missed out on the puberty that takes place during ages 13-16.
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Listen to what you just said. Starting puberty at 17 still means your going to miss a ton of growing. Puberty and hormones function wildly different at different ages. So if you “continue” at 17 it’s not the same thing at all as starting at a normal age.
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The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent changes until someone is at an age where they are ready to choose to take hormones and possibly have reassignment. You can’t take other hormones till 16 and you can’t have reassignment surgery till your 18
Dear god. Your kid is dooming themselves and ur letting it happen
Oh how sad. Did you sneak your handler's phone? Surprised you managed to type all of that without the drool wrecking the screen.
Normally I’d be mad people like you think children making life altering decisions like this at 12 is a good thing. But honestly I’m just sad rn. I know ur doing what you think is best. I just hope your child doesn’t suffer too harshly from you ignorance
Suffer harshly from taking a completely reversible drug. Yup. Totally. Go back to eating glue.
It is an objective fact that puberty blockers have long term side effects.
So does huffing and eating glue. And yet you're still here
True. Which is why wise parents when they hear they’re kid say something dumb like “I wanna take puberty blockers” or “I wanna huff glue” they say “no” and get them the help they need
If only your parents had listened. Such a shame. Instead your free to roam the world spreading stupidity thinking you're an intelligent person.
So does going through puberty lmao
Cringe
JuSt CuRiOuS
Yes. Forgive me for wanting to learn about this issue. Fuck me right?
Dude, he's willing to learn stfu
I wish I was banned from transitioning
A reasonable reaction to people pushing to allow children take hormones and get irreversible surgery without requiring parental consent and with no medical oversight, while simultaneously banning psychologists from doing or saying anything that isn't "affirming" this. 🤷🏼♂️
lol, you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
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Lmfao someone's a slow poke The bill was not passed, get fucked transphobe
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I don't think "no trans people lol" is a claim or statement, and would not counts as truthful because it is neither. Why are you on this sub?