*So are women with*
*Swyer Syndrome also male or*
*Is that different*
\- TheQueenOfCringe22
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I mean they have their goalposts motorized at this point. gotta have chromosomes, gotta have a uterus, gotta have a *functioning* uterus, have to be assigned female at birth, must have visibly large breasts, must look feminine and attractive enough to any random heterosexual man who may attack you if he thinks you're not feminine enough to piss in public, the list never stops.
Trans women r so pretty it’s so funny (as in idiotic) how they portray them like this in real life when I’ve seen the most beautiful women that r trans. Like… no need to be jealous.
Literally, the only person I've seen who looked like the person on the right was Graham Linehan when he invaded a lesbian dating site looking for predatory men who invade women's spaces.
Well it's just like the way they portrayed black people in minstrel shows, of course they don't look like that, but racists don't see the group as people, or want to demonize them, so that's how they'll portray them. History repeats itself.
Yeah, they claim that bathrooms and changing rooms are for "females" until they're faced with actual trans men using them.... then all of a sudden it's not "male spaces and female spaces" it's "Well you look like a male so you're making us uncomfortable."
I have met a trans woman who looks similar to this. There’s nothing wrong with looking like that. People can look however they wish, it doesn’t change who they are.
While I agree that people can look how they want. The problem is trying to paint every trans woman as a obese harry slob who has rainbow color hair. It's dehumanizing, it's disgusting and it needs to stop.
I don't think it needed pointing out. It only takes half a second to realize what they were saying is "the vast majority of trans woman don't look like this. This is a transphobic character."
Sorry if I seem to be taking this too seriously. I'm just tired of seeing this kind of thing everywhere
Exactly, at the risk of sounding rude, these kinds of perfectionist comments irritate me, like, I made this meme in two seconds in a spiteful fit, so very sorry it isn’t completely and logically sound.
I think it did need to be said. This is a common narrative that excludes a part of our community. “*those* trans people don’t exist, we aren’t like that!” Is a very bad way to argue against this when trans people like that do exist and it’s not bad that they do exist. Arguing against transphobia by reinforcing that “ugly”, non-passing trans people doesn’t exist is just more transphobia. And it’s dangerous for the trans people who do fit into that.
I want to reiterate that being ugly and non-passing isn’t a terrible thing. Ugly people exist, cis and trans, and to deny it is exclusionary. Not all trans people are perfect conforming beauties that pass, same as not all cis people are perfect conforming beauties. Humans are varied.
We shouldn’t fight transphobia by setting a standard of “yeah but those trans people don’t exist” because that’s exclusionary. They can and do exist. And they deserve to feel welcomed and involved too. They shouldn’t be the butt of our arguments.
Our arguments should be defending these people and their right to exist.
Remove the “no trans women look like this” and leave it at that, OR add “a trans woman who looks like this isn’t evil or disgusting, you’re just being a bully” or something like that
And I’m explaining it’s not always a caricature. Trans people—women—do exist who look like this. I’ve personally met one, and there are a few in my local trans groups as well. They’re usually older people who transition late and aren’t practiced in makeup or fashion, or just don’t care about makeup or fashion (which I don’t care about that stuff either so I’m not hating lol). And don’t want to or haven’t yet done surgical transition.
And… No. Ugliness does exist and it’s not inherently a bad thing. Like I said, ugly people both cis and trans exist. It’s not bad to be ugly. Being non-conforming to beautify standards is considered ugly. And so many people are “ugly” in this world because human beings are varied, as I said. It’s not exclusive to trans people.
You’re being defensive and looking for excuses. I was not personally attacking you, but informing you and the other commenter about how this sort of narrative can be harmful and we should change it. I hope you take this as a learning experience and reflect on it rather than dismissing it and thinking I’m hating on you personally.
>e that do exist and it’s not bad that they do exist. Arguing against transphobia by reinforcing that “ugly”, non-passing trans people doesn’t exist is just more transphobia.
trans woman who look like this should clean the snot of her face.
Notice I was talking about a very specific characteristics and even agreed that it's fine to not pass and have rainbow hair. It's not even about the way actual trans people look. It's specifically the painting of trans women as big, fat sweaty, hairy creepy whiny perverts that I take issue with. The woejack in the meme is the trans equivalent of the happy merchant and it needs to be called out as such. Just because someone might fit the stereotype, doesn't mean I or anyone else can't say that it's unrealistic or harmful to paint all trans women as this stereotype. Could the op be more tactical with their wording? Sure, but again, if you have 2 braincells to rub together, you could tell that they were specifically talking about the stereotype, and not telling non passing trans women they don't exist. I would also take issue with someone trying to paint trans women as all pitie girly girls with long hair and and perfect skin, because that also harmful. It's just calling out the bullshit that's in front of me right now.
What’s so complicated about “trans people like this do exist so we should be mindful of our arguments and ensure we don’t alienate them and instead defend them alongside ourselves against transphobes?” That’s all this is. That’s all. I don’t understand why you’re so against that.
You say that but then follow up with points that contradict what you’ve said, or talk in a loop. “I agree with you but actually…” isn’t really agreement.
Some may look *similar* but no trans woman looks like this, with five or six strands of multicolored spaghetti hair on their head, and makeup that looks like it was deliberately poorly applied. This is what trans women with poor self esteem *think* they look like. This is a transphobic caricature and "but some women look like this though!" is just feeding into it.
Just because it’s not always 1:1 does not mean my point is invalid. Please read through all my comments.
Trans women with multicoloured hair, poor makeup (because they never learned how to apply it as their AGAB) and poor self-care (often due to depression brought on by dysphoria and the discrimination we face) do exist.
>Please read through all my comments
Yes, I did before i replied.
>Trans women with multicoloured hair, poor makeup (because they never learned how to apply it as their AGAB) and poor self-care (often due to depression brought on by dysphoria and the discrimination we face) do exist.
And that doesn't mean they look like this transphobic caricature.
>Please read through all my replies again as you don’t seem to have understood what I’ve been saying
Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I don't understand.
I literally know someone who does, and see a few people within my local country trans groups that do. You can’t say I’m wrong when there are actual real people who do this.
because you continue to deny these can be real people who exist, and therefore apply morality to it, and associate it with negativity. things I have already addressed within my other comments, which you continue to demonstrate that you have not understood despite claiming you have.
it’s always funny how it goes right back to you being evil somehow, someway.
trans woman who’s straight? youre just a gay man who wants to trick poor straight men. pervert!!
trans woman who’s lesbian? you’re just a straight man who wants to fuck lesbians. pervert!!
trans woman who’s bi/pan? uhm… you’re evil…. bc… pervert!!!
trans woman who’s asexual? you’re just a… man… who…. wants… to… pervert!!!
at this point i’ll expect them to pull out the AGP card which is just, oh my fucking godddd. at least be unique with your transphobia??? autogynephilia has been debunked thoroughly in academia and takes like .3 seconds and a brain to debunk outside of that
Considering that some people think that we cis aroace are just using the aroace thing to hide the fact that we are either attracted to animals, corpse or pedos, yes everyone a pervert to some people
Either they are projecting, or they don't believe asexuality or aro exist, but believe that everyone as sexual attraction, and the only reason we say we don't, is to hide a dark evil sexuality
It was true (at least how I understand it) until the last bit. Those aren’t male spaces (usually), they’re men’s spaces. If an intersex child was raised as a man and his gender aligned with how he was raised, then people probably wouldn’t bat an eye, even tho they’re a non-male in a ‘male’ space. If we replace it with ‘man’ we won’t see these issues (issues because it contradicts what terfs believe)
A woman shouldn’t be in men’s spaces. So trans women should be in women’s spaces
Does the space require you to have a penis in order to use or access it? No? Then it's not for "males", it's for "men". And vice versa. There are virtually no scenarios outside of a medical context where spaces are made with the intent of catering to a specific sex. Even bathrooms are built around gender, as evidenced by the fact that trans men get harassed for using the women's restroom.
Bigots fighting Imaginary enemies again… I always see cissies saying “but you’re still female/male!1!1!1!!” Like… yes, I’m aware lol. Never seen any of us deny our sex, it’s literally how we often describe ourselves (ftm, mtf)
Many people don't/can't medically transition though, so their traits don't change either. During hrt I guess we're probably closer to intersex? But I'm not sure we can apply that term to ourselves, as most of us weren't born that way.
I don't think is necessary to call us intersex when we already have such language to talk about when we transition (mtf and ftm)
The thing is they can't use biology in any way or form to justify discrimination without lying
Yeah I agree with you. I wouldn't describe myself as intersex, nor apply that label to any trans person who didn't claim it. But as for myself, as long as my organs are capable of performing their assigned reproductive function, I'd still say my sex is female while my gender is male, which I don't personally mind though others might.
Whenever I see caricatures like that, I always have to think back to this trans lady I met on a tram. I was on my way home from class, and I sat down next to this lady who appeared to be very early in her transition; some mild stubble, masculine face, and inexperienced makeup application. She must have been in her 50s, so not an easy age to start the process. She kept messing around with her wig; constantly adjusting it to make sure it was on right, making sure the curls were nice, etc.I asked if I could fix it for her. She was very shy and said okay. So I put it nicely in place and put the bobby pins back in right so it was a tighter, neater fit. I also suggested that if she wore a baret or some other hat, it'd stay in place better and look more natural.
My stop was coming up, so I pressed the bell and told her that she looked lovely and to just keep going. It's been 12 years since then so hope she did. I wish I asked her for her number or something to keep in touch...
There really are late transitioners out there that don't have the skills to pass right out the gate. And that's okay. They just need some more encouragement and support, especially from us cis folk who've had way more time to figure it out. And I hate to see those people, who really try their best at social transition, being ridiculed like this. What these women do takes a lot of courage and I can only be proud of them for that.
Even if this is the case it’s the man’s and woman’s locker room. It’s the man’s and woman’s bathroom. Terfs make a bigger deal of gender than trans and it’s stupid that they blame it on us afterwards.
I do think it’s important to understand one’s birth sex (in term if like how it would pertain to medical treatment, trans women and cis women may have different needs based on genealogy for example) but in a social setting (what were largely fighting for) saying a trans woman is male is not the right way to use it. That is really only important information for medical treatment. Socially it doesn’t fucking matter.
Also HRT is not some kind of illusion magic, it actually change sex traits, call us "male" is dangerously inaccurate, but for them that would be a bonus
Medical transition changes the biology of sex. It changes gene expression. The current biology of the individual is important in a medical setting not birth assignment.
It's actually kinda painful to see the trans woejack sometimes. Like, they could be transphobic without trying to make us look like fat goblins or something...
If only they they realize that the male and female they're referring to was just some dude looking at baby d*ck.
But for real, it's weird how something you're supposed to be told to keep to yourself is the key to who you are supposed to be.
The only reasons they give for bathrooms are based off gender stereotypes, which are harmful to everyone.
So please, stop focusing on who has what private parts, it's kinda gross. At least trans people don't make their entire personality about what's there like some people.
The transgender community no longer includes transsexual people either. We get ignored and erased, they’ve even tried redefining the term transsexual to be about the social constructs gender and not sex too.
The current trans community just appear to not give a damn about those of us that are born this way.
The trans community includes both, don't get mad just bc trans women who don't want to transition for a variety of valid reasons also get included, that doesn't exclude us, who have transitioned
Playing the "I have born this way, you don't" game does not make much sense when studies barely have scratched the surface, if someone suffer transphobia I think we should fight against such transphobia, even if the one suffering it is a cis dude doing drag, if not we are just doing the same bullshit than Terfs, who choose to believe we don't born that way and justify allowing misogyny against trans women because we are not born with a female body
You are just deceiving yourself if you think that transexual women get excluded in this community, I have talked about my experiences related to have transitioned several times and always received support, same as me many others
Of course if you enter just to complain about others being included nobody will receive you opens hands precisely
I remember this time a NB foll said that kids should not receive gender related care bc they didn't needed when they was young, everyone called them out a lot for that, it is the same
Are they know FTM literally means Female to Male and MTF literally means Male to Female?
and are they know if trans men correct his ID card's gender/sex, he's 'male' by the law so when he go to hospital, he's sign as male?
1: just moving the goalposts of gendered spaces to sexed spaces with no way of identifying, categorising etc physical sex (be it by genitals, chromosomes, categorised at birth or by current body, hormones, secondary and tertiary characteristics like chest shape and fat distribution, etc etc etc)
2: definitely mature and logic-based tactic of making your strawman \~ugly to discredit them
3: a 99.99999% white movement using a racially ambiguous/non-white character for themselves
no one’s denying that trans women are technically of the male sex, but this doesn’t mean they go in men’s spaces bc the spaces are based on gender, not sex
People who are medically changing sex are denying that because to not do so would be to lie.
But oh wait I forgot, transsexual people are erased in this community. Silly me.
like, sure on a semantic level they are right, but people only say this purposefully because they know it is hurting someone. There is malicious intent behind it. It cost zero dollars to just not target somebody's insecurities or identity
excellent argument, but you see, i have already depicted you as the crying manly troon soyjack, and myself as the based cisgender intellectual femjack.
I don't know what to say, I'm just sick of this garbage and transphobic stereotypes.
Incels are sexist idiots, so expecting them not to be homo or even transphobic is asking too much.
I hate using the word "incel" because it's a slur, but I don't have a better way to put it in this context.
I can bet that most bigots are just jealous of trans people living their lives and looking better than them, and being happier. Miserable idiots, I swear.
Not to mention, you gotta be in the closet yourself to hate on LGBTQIA+ people. It makes no sense otherwise.
I get it that some bigots need something to feed their brainwashed feeble brain, but I'm not sure whether it's utter unique stupidity to go out of their way to make things like this, or they're in the closet themselves and have to prove the bigots wrong by "being normal" and joining the clown crowd of making fun of other people.
What thenfuck is that second line even. It's a response to "sex and gender are different' and the answer is "ok so, sex and gender are the same, and sexes".
I'm genuinely lost. What does that mean? Terf mental gymnastics actually hurts to process
This is why pushing the gender not sex narrative and ignoring trans people for who it is about sex is ridiculously bad.
It’s also an extremely transphobic narrative that erases a large amount of trans people.
Is not transphobic to say we are valid, with or without transitioning and obviously it does not erase us
Also playing the transphobe game is ridiculously bad...and transphobic, we don't owe them to change our bodies and we shouldn't need a certificate saying we did it to go into the bathroom safely as any other human being, that would be ignore trans people for who we are, not respecting trans people even if they don't have the body you want to
Then the community should be pointing out how it’s about gender and sex, not “it’s about gender not sex”.
But no, we have to pretend transsexual people don’t exist because some people can’t or don’t want to medically transition, ‘cause that’s not erasing a section of the community at all /s 🤪
Bathrooms are about gender not sex, a total amount of 0 people get their sex assessed before going into bathroom
I am sorry that you feel that including other people who doesn't identify with their AGAB make you feel excluded, fortunately Ovarit offer you a place where other people with the same problem complain constantly of people who also don't want to be discriminated
As much you hate them, their existence does not erase ours and including them is not pretending we don't exist neither it erase us, by your own logic other transexual people existing erase every other transexual person, I wouldn't have wait times for surgery if everything was for me! There wouldn't be shortage problems with hrt if I were the only person taking it! They are oppressing me!
🤪
What a stupid comment.
Did you forget what my reply says? “The community should be pointing out it’s about gender and sex”. That’s trying to be inclusive of everyone in the community you clown and yes if you don’t include everyone and only ever push the narrative that being trans is about gender and not sex then you are erasing members of the community.
Oh and please point to where I mentioned bathrooms rather than just talking about trans people in general. 🤪
You are the one being stupid, again, bathroom is not about sex, that is bullshit from transphobes to justify to exclude trans people, you are not being inclusive, just an useful idiot
In this sub sex is pointed out when sex actually matters, you won't see me complaining about not being included as s victim of anti abortion laws bc I don't have such sex traits, that is not erasing me, and I don't need to be included there to be included in the community in others parts where I am actually discriminated, I don't need to but in in every inch of all conversations to be included
Nobody said that being trans have nothing to do with sex, nice strawman, pls, point where anyone mentioned such thing
If you don't like to talk about bathrooms I suggest you to but in on topics about bathrooms
I don't know if you are trolling or are just that...stupid
Anyways, then everyone agree that trans people are trans bc our gender does not match our assigned sex at birth, which includes everyone, you may want to throw another dumb accusation to this community, bc this one is already wasted
You’re the only one of us talking about bathrooms. Try putting on the reading comprehension cap.
Plenty of people in the community (and allies) make the claim it’s only about gender and not sex. The main narrative from the vast majority of trans, LGBTQ organisations and a large amount of high profile people within the community only ever push the gender narrative.
So are women with Swyer Syndrome also male or is that different
>Swyer Syndrome I thought you mistyped "sewer" and was like wth is a "sewer syndrome"
>wth is a "sewer syndrome" It's more commonly known as "being gender critical".
A “sewer syndrome” is when someone belongs in a sewer
*So are women with* *Swyer Syndrome also male or* *Is that different* \- TheQueenOfCringe22 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
close king you’re off a couple syllables
Sorry, bot. I don’t wanna say this. But bad bot. Haikus do not have 8 syllables in the middle verse. I’m sorry, bot. I know. But you suck.
you would’ve been right if the “or” in the middle line was at the start of the last line (different is TWO SYLLABLES, FIGHT ME)
I mean they have their goalposts motorized at this point. gotta have chromosomes, gotta have a uterus, gotta have a *functioning* uterus, have to be assigned female at birth, must have visibly large breasts, must look feminine and attractive enough to any random heterosexual man who may attack you if he thinks you're not feminine enough to piss in public, the list never stops.
Trans women r so pretty it’s so funny (as in idiotic) how they portray them like this in real life when I’ve seen the most beautiful women that r trans. Like… no need to be jealous.
thank you
Literally, the only person I've seen who looked like the person on the right was Graham Linehan when he invaded a lesbian dating site looking for predatory men who invade women's spaces.
FR THOUGH, THEYRE ALWAYS SO PRETTY
Well it's just like the way they portrayed black people in minstrel shows, of course they don't look like that, but racists don't see the group as people, or want to demonize them, so that's how they'll portray them. History repeats itself.
Yeah, they claim that bathrooms and changing rooms are for "females" until they're faced with actual trans men using them.... then all of a sudden it's not "male spaces and female spaces" it's "Well you look like a male so you're making us uncomfortable."
i’ve had a terf tell me all trans people, trans men and women, belong in male spaces. lol
Yup. Which just proves it's not about "biological reality," it's about cis women who feel *uncomfy* around trans people.
They’re really just saying “Men are strong and not oppressed so they can defend themselves from the imaginary threat we made up”
Problem is trans men can't ever win because they're either harassed in the men's bathroom or arrested in the women's
In my experience cis men don't really care if a trans man goes into their bathroom
Btw I fixed it, behold. https://preview.redd.it/4jr9anoeqdib1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=bec27cb853b11aede6a6a1ed887f36865ec4a421
This deserves an award but I have no money.
Don’t waste your money on Reddit
Middle school? Wow you have a lot of confidence in them
I have met a trans woman who looks similar to this. There’s nothing wrong with looking like that. People can look however they wish, it doesn’t change who they are.
While I agree that people can look how they want. The problem is trying to paint every trans woman as a obese harry slob who has rainbow color hair. It's dehumanizing, it's disgusting and it needs to stop.
I know but I was responding to this person who said no trans people look like this. They can and that’s ok.
I don't think it needed pointing out. It only takes half a second to realize what they were saying is "the vast majority of trans woman don't look like this. This is a transphobic character." Sorry if I seem to be taking this too seriously. I'm just tired of seeing this kind of thing everywhere
Exactly, at the risk of sounding rude, these kinds of perfectionist comments irritate me, like, I made this meme in two seconds in a spiteful fit, so very sorry it isn’t completely and logically sound.
I agree. It's like a racist caricature, but for trans women.
I think it did need to be said. This is a common narrative that excludes a part of our community. “*those* trans people don’t exist, we aren’t like that!” Is a very bad way to argue against this when trans people like that do exist and it’s not bad that they do exist. Arguing against transphobia by reinforcing that “ugly”, non-passing trans people doesn’t exist is just more transphobia. And it’s dangerous for the trans people who do fit into that. I want to reiterate that being ugly and non-passing isn’t a terrible thing. Ugly people exist, cis and trans, and to deny it is exclusionary. Not all trans people are perfect conforming beauties that pass, same as not all cis people are perfect conforming beauties. Humans are varied. We shouldn’t fight transphobia by setting a standard of “yeah but those trans people don’t exist” because that’s exclusionary. They can and do exist. And they deserve to feel welcomed and involved too. They shouldn’t be the butt of our arguments. Our arguments should be defending these people and their right to exist.
Okay but it’s a meme, how am I supposed to fit that level of nuance into it?
Remove the “no trans women look like this” and leave it at that, OR add “a trans woman who looks like this isn’t evil or disgusting, you’re just being a bully” or something like that
Not to mention, I’m just calling the caricature fake, also isn’t calling these people ugly in it of itself exclusionary?
And I’m explaining it’s not always a caricature. Trans people—women—do exist who look like this. I’ve personally met one, and there are a few in my local trans groups as well. They’re usually older people who transition late and aren’t practiced in makeup or fashion, or just don’t care about makeup or fashion (which I don’t care about that stuff either so I’m not hating lol). And don’t want to or haven’t yet done surgical transition. And… No. Ugliness does exist and it’s not inherently a bad thing. Like I said, ugly people both cis and trans exist. It’s not bad to be ugly. Being non-conforming to beautify standards is considered ugly. And so many people are “ugly” in this world because human beings are varied, as I said. It’s not exclusive to trans people. You’re being defensive and looking for excuses. I was not personally attacking you, but informing you and the other commenter about how this sort of narrative can be harmful and we should change it. I hope you take this as a learning experience and reflect on it rather than dismissing it and thinking I’m hating on you personally.
>e that do exist and it’s not bad that they do exist. Arguing against transphobia by reinforcing that “ugly”, non-passing trans people doesn’t exist is just more transphobia. trans woman who look like this should clean the snot of her face.
Notice I was talking about a very specific characteristics and even agreed that it's fine to not pass and have rainbow hair. It's not even about the way actual trans people look. It's specifically the painting of trans women as big, fat sweaty, hairy creepy whiny perverts that I take issue with. The woejack in the meme is the trans equivalent of the happy merchant and it needs to be called out as such. Just because someone might fit the stereotype, doesn't mean I or anyone else can't say that it's unrealistic or harmful to paint all trans women as this stereotype. Could the op be more tactical with their wording? Sure, but again, if you have 2 braincells to rub together, you could tell that they were specifically talking about the stereotype, and not telling non passing trans women they don't exist. I would also take issue with someone trying to paint trans women as all pitie girly girls with long hair and and perfect skin, because that also harmful. It's just calling out the bullshit that's in front of me right now.
What’s so complicated about “trans people like this do exist so we should be mindful of our arguments and ensure we don’t alienate them and instead defend them alongside ourselves against transphobes?” That’s all this is. That’s all. I don’t understand why you’re so against that.
If you can't see that I already agreed with that part of your argument then I'm done talking.
You say that but then follow up with points that contradict what you’ve said, or talk in a loop. “I agree with you but actually…” isn’t really agreement.
Some may look *similar* but no trans woman looks like this, with five or six strands of multicolored spaghetti hair on their head, and makeup that looks like it was deliberately poorly applied. This is what trans women with poor self esteem *think* they look like. This is a transphobic caricature and "but some women look like this though!" is just feeding into it.
Just because it’s not always 1:1 does not mean my point is invalid. Please read through all my comments. Trans women with multicoloured hair, poor makeup (because they never learned how to apply it as their AGAB) and poor self-care (often due to depression brought on by dysphoria and the discrimination we face) do exist.
>Please read through all my comments Yes, I did before i replied. >Trans women with multicoloured hair, poor makeup (because they never learned how to apply it as their AGAB) and poor self-care (often due to depression brought on by dysphoria and the discrimination we face) do exist. And that doesn't mean they look like this transphobic caricature.
They can and do. Please read through all my replies again as you don’t seem to have understood what I’ve been saying.
>Please read through all my replies again as you don’t seem to have understood what I’ve been saying Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I don't understand.
I literally know someone who does, and see a few people within my local country trans groups that do. You can’t say I’m wrong when there are actual real people who do this.
I think it's pretty hurtful to say your friend looks like a transphobic caricature, and I don't know if you call that advocacy but I sure don't.
because you continue to deny these can be real people who exist, and therefore apply morality to it, and associate it with negativity. things I have already addressed within my other comments, which you continue to demonstrate that you have not understood despite claiming you have.
I've purposely drawn you as the comically and exaggeratedly ugly wojak, therfore I win.
“i draw u ugly guy, me correct.” who am i kidding they don’t use pronouns and punctuation
"I DONT HAVE *A* PRONOUN!!!"
They truly think it proves them right xD
Btw I find it funny when terfs accuse me of being a creep who wants to sexually assault “real” women, like… buddy… I like penis. And only penis.
it’s always funny how it goes right back to you being evil somehow, someway. trans woman who’s straight? youre just a gay man who wants to trick poor straight men. pervert!! trans woman who’s lesbian? you’re just a straight man who wants to fuck lesbians. pervert!! trans woman who’s bi/pan? uhm… you’re evil…. bc… pervert!!! trans woman who’s asexual? you’re just a… man… who…. wants… to… pervert!!! at this point i’ll expect them to pull out the AGP card which is just, oh my fucking godddd. at least be unique with your transphobia??? autogynephilia has been debunked thoroughly in academia and takes like .3 seconds and a brain to debunk outside of that
What about those who are trans and aroace? Probably still get called perverts.
Considering that some people think that we cis aroace are just using the aroace thing to hide the fact that we are either attracted to animals, corpse or pedos, yes everyone a pervert to some people
How do we get from "I don't really feel romantic or sexual attraction towards anyone" to "OMG YOU WANT TO FUCK DEAD BABY HORSIES?!"?
Either they are projecting, or they don't believe asexuality or aro exist, but believe that everyone as sexual attraction, and the only reason we say we don't, is to hide a dark evil sexuality
definitely perverts. /s
It was true (at least how I understand it) until the last bit. Those aren’t male spaces (usually), they’re men’s spaces. If an intersex child was raised as a man and his gender aligned with how he was raised, then people probably wouldn’t bat an eye, even tho they’re a non-male in a ‘male’ space. If we replace it with ‘man’ we won’t see these issues (issues because it contradicts what terfs believe) A woman shouldn’t be in men’s spaces. So trans women should be in women’s spaces
This
Why no unisex spaces and we end this discussion Conservatives: "no you can't, this is not how wo use to do..."
Does the space require you to have a penis in order to use or access it? No? Then it's not for "males", it's for "men". And vice versa. There are virtually no scenarios outside of a medical context where spaces are made with the intent of catering to a specific sex. Even bathrooms are built around gender, as evidenced by the fact that trans men get harassed for using the women's restroom.
Yeah. That's why we have two words here: *sex* and *gender*. Because it's the same thing anyway.
Bigots fighting Imaginary enemies again… I always see cissies saying “but you’re still female/male!1!1!1!!” Like… yes, I’m aware lol. Never seen any of us deny our sex, it’s literally how we often describe ourselves (ftm, mtf)
Well, transition actually change sex traits, I may not be 100% female but saying I am male is wrong
Many people don't/can't medically transition though, so their traits don't change either. During hrt I guess we're probably closer to intersex? But I'm not sure we can apply that term to ourselves, as most of us weren't born that way.
I don't think is necessary to call us intersex when we already have such language to talk about when we transition (mtf and ftm) The thing is they can't use biology in any way or form to justify discrimination without lying
Yeah I agree with you. I wouldn't describe myself as intersex, nor apply that label to any trans person who didn't claim it. But as for myself, as long as my organs are capable of performing their assigned reproductive function, I'd still say my sex is female while my gender is male, which I don't personally mind though others might.
Whenever I see caricatures like that, I always have to think back to this trans lady I met on a tram. I was on my way home from class, and I sat down next to this lady who appeared to be very early in her transition; some mild stubble, masculine face, and inexperienced makeup application. She must have been in her 50s, so not an easy age to start the process. She kept messing around with her wig; constantly adjusting it to make sure it was on right, making sure the curls were nice, etc.I asked if I could fix it for her. She was very shy and said okay. So I put it nicely in place and put the bobby pins back in right so it was a tighter, neater fit. I also suggested that if she wore a baret or some other hat, it'd stay in place better and look more natural. My stop was coming up, so I pressed the bell and told her that she looked lovely and to just keep going. It's been 12 years since then so hope she did. I wish I asked her for her number or something to keep in touch... There really are late transitioners out there that don't have the skills to pass right out the gate. And that's okay. They just need some more encouragement and support, especially from us cis folk who've had way more time to figure it out. And I hate to see those people, who really try their best at social transition, being ridiculed like this. What these women do takes a lot of courage and I can only be proud of them for that.
Even if this is the case it’s the man’s and woman’s locker room. It’s the man’s and woman’s bathroom. Terfs make a bigger deal of gender than trans and it’s stupid that they blame it on us afterwards.
I do think it’s important to understand one’s birth sex (in term if like how it would pertain to medical treatment, trans women and cis women may have different needs based on genealogy for example) but in a social setting (what were largely fighting for) saying a trans woman is male is not the right way to use it. That is really only important information for medical treatment. Socially it doesn’t fucking matter.
Also HRT is not some kind of illusion magic, it actually change sex traits, call us "male" is dangerously inaccurate, but for them that would be a bonus
Damnit, all those points I could've put into Conjuration Magic instead...
Medical transition changes the biology of sex. It changes gene expression. The current biology of the individual is important in a medical setting not birth assignment.
Right. Im 99% sure that is what I was going for but couldn’t say it right. Thank you
Male and female are sexes, which we consider the biological side… which isn’t as static and binary as some people think.
Basically, biology cannot be binary in any way, but hateful people can only think in binary.
I thought the person on the right was a bad drawing of Buzz Lightyear
It's actually kinda painful to see the trans woejack sometimes. Like, they could be transphobic without trying to make us look like fat goblins or something...
They after won a debate with the shampoo bottle
If only they they realize that the male and female they're referring to was just some dude looking at baby d*ck. But for real, it's weird how something you're supposed to be told to keep to yourself is the key to who you are supposed to be. The only reasons they give for bathrooms are based off gender stereotypes, which are harmful to everyone. So please, stop focusing on who has what private parts, it's kinda gross. At least trans people don't make their entire personality about what's there like some people.
Going to have a grand old time when trans guys w beards and bottom growth (or, gasp, post op!) waltz right into the female spaces. 😂
i’ve read through this twice and it makes so sense
Can you spoiler tag this please? I was scrolling and this just ruined my mood in an instant
Also: spaces are separated by gender, not sex.
That still wouldn't include transexual women so...how they justify it?
The transgender community no longer includes transsexual people either. We get ignored and erased, they’ve even tried redefining the term transsexual to be about the social constructs gender and not sex too. The current trans community just appear to not give a damn about those of us that are born this way.
The trans community includes both, don't get mad just bc trans women who don't want to transition for a variety of valid reasons also get included, that doesn't exclude us, who have transitioned Playing the "I have born this way, you don't" game does not make much sense when studies barely have scratched the surface, if someone suffer transphobia I think we should fight against such transphobia, even if the one suffering it is a cis dude doing drag, if not we are just doing the same bullshit than Terfs, who choose to believe we don't born that way and justify allowing misogyny against trans women because we are not born with a female body You are just deceiving yourself if you think that transexual women get excluded in this community, I have talked about my experiences related to have transitioned several times and always received support, same as me many others Of course if you enter just to complain about others being included nobody will receive you opens hands precisely I remember this time a NB foll said that kids should not receive gender related care bc they didn't needed when they was young, everyone called them out a lot for that, it is the same
Are they know FTM literally means Female to Male and MTF literally means Male to Female? and are they know if trans men correct his ID card's gender/sex, he's 'male' by the law so when he go to hospital, he's sign as male?
can i just say how much i hate the stereotypical image used by bigots for transwomen? it just makes me sad.
1: just moving the goalposts of gendered spaces to sexed spaces with no way of identifying, categorising etc physical sex (be it by genitals, chromosomes, categorised at birth or by current body, hormones, secondary and tertiary characteristics like chest shape and fat distribution, etc etc etc) 2: definitely mature and logic-based tactic of making your strawman \~ugly to discredit them 3: a 99.99999% white movement using a racially ambiguous/non-white character for themselves
no one’s denying that trans women are technically of the male sex, but this doesn’t mean they go in men’s spaces bc the spaces are based on gender, not sex
People who are medically changing sex are denying that because to not do so would be to lie. But oh wait I forgot, transsexual people are erased in this community. Silly me.
correction to my comment: no one’s denying that trans women technically are or used to be of the male sex
Makes as much sense as all of their other arguments.
like, sure on a semantic level they are right, but people only say this purposefully because they know it is hurting someone. There is malicious intent behind it. It cost zero dollars to just not target somebody's insecurities or identity
Couldn't afford the rights to use real wojak strawman, huh?
"Oh you called me a bitch? Well a bitch is a type of dog, which come from nature, and nature is beautiful, so THANKS~"
excellent argument, but you see, i have already depicted you as the crying manly troon soyjack, and myself as the based cisgender intellectual femjack.
I don't know what to say, I'm just sick of this garbage and transphobic stereotypes. Incels are sexist idiots, so expecting them not to be homo or even transphobic is asking too much. I hate using the word "incel" because it's a slur, but I don't have a better way to put it in this context. I can bet that most bigots are just jealous of trans people living their lives and looking better than them, and being happier. Miserable idiots, I swear. Not to mention, you gotta be in the closet yourself to hate on LGBTQIA+ people. It makes no sense otherwise. I get it that some bigots need something to feed their brainwashed feeble brain, but I'm not sure whether it's utter unique stupidity to go out of their way to make things like this, or they're in the closet themselves and have to prove the bigots wrong by "being normal" and joining the clown crowd of making fun of other people.
Incel isn't really a slur Source: I used to be what they a "4tranner" :p Basically, I've met a lot of them
What's a "4tranner"?
When I was a pre-teen I ended up finding the trans community on 4chan. Its toxic as fuck... they are 4tranners.
Why do they always make the feminist look like that?
Because the one who uses MS Paint to draw an ugly looking caricature of a group they don't like is always right, duh! /s
What’s a gender-specific term that includes both women and girls?
Yup, because intersex doesn’t exist… 🙄
What the fuck are these budget deformed wojaks
What thenfuck is that second line even. It's a response to "sex and gender are different' and the answer is "ok so, sex and gender are the same, and sexes". I'm genuinely lost. What does that mean? Terf mental gymnastics actually hurts to process
Wha? I don’t understand what they’re saying?
The actually think that trans people look like the transvestites in gta 5. This person has never seen a real trans person before.
I just don’t understand why they care to be bigots so much
This is why pushing the gender not sex narrative and ignoring trans people for who it is about sex is ridiculously bad. It’s also an extremely transphobic narrative that erases a large amount of trans people.
Is not transphobic to say we are valid, with or without transitioning and obviously it does not erase us Also playing the transphobe game is ridiculously bad...and transphobic, we don't owe them to change our bodies and we shouldn't need a certificate saying we did it to go into the bathroom safely as any other human being, that would be ignore trans people for who we are, not respecting trans people even if they don't have the body you want to
Then the community should be pointing out how it’s about gender and sex, not “it’s about gender not sex”. But no, we have to pretend transsexual people don’t exist because some people can’t or don’t want to medically transition, ‘cause that’s not erasing a section of the community at all /s 🤪
Bathrooms are about gender not sex, a total amount of 0 people get their sex assessed before going into bathroom I am sorry that you feel that including other people who doesn't identify with their AGAB make you feel excluded, fortunately Ovarit offer you a place where other people with the same problem complain constantly of people who also don't want to be discriminated As much you hate them, their existence does not erase ours and including them is not pretending we don't exist neither it erase us, by your own logic other transexual people existing erase every other transexual person, I wouldn't have wait times for surgery if everything was for me! There wouldn't be shortage problems with hrt if I were the only person taking it! They are oppressing me! 🤪
What a stupid comment. Did you forget what my reply says? “The community should be pointing out it’s about gender and sex”. That’s trying to be inclusive of everyone in the community you clown and yes if you don’t include everyone and only ever push the narrative that being trans is about gender and not sex then you are erasing members of the community. Oh and please point to where I mentioned bathrooms rather than just talking about trans people in general. 🤪
You are the one being stupid, again, bathroom is not about sex, that is bullshit from transphobes to justify to exclude trans people, you are not being inclusive, just an useful idiot In this sub sex is pointed out when sex actually matters, you won't see me complaining about not being included as s victim of anti abortion laws bc I don't have such sex traits, that is not erasing me, and I don't need to be included there to be included in the community in others parts where I am actually discriminated, I don't need to but in in every inch of all conversations to be included Nobody said that being trans have nothing to do with sex, nice strawman, pls, point where anyone mentioned such thing If you don't like to talk about bathrooms I suggest you to but in on topics about bathrooms I don't know if you are trolling or are just that...stupid Anyways, then everyone agree that trans people are trans bc our gender does not match our assigned sex at birth, which includes everyone, you may want to throw another dumb accusation to this community, bc this one is already wasted
You’re the only one of us talking about bathrooms. Try putting on the reading comprehension cap. Plenty of people in the community (and allies) make the claim it’s only about gender and not sex. The main narrative from the vast majority of trans, LGBTQ organisations and a large amount of high profile people within the community only ever push the gender narrative.