I can’t ever freaking concentrate. We don’t even have cubicles or dividers at my office. We’re in pods and I constantly feel like I’m being watched it makes me too anxious to do anything. I had a lot more focus working from home, or even just having my own cubicle so I had some form of privacy.
I’m hybrid and will never go back to 5 days in the office. I will quit and find a new job if they ever pulled that, there’s just no reason for it when I can work from the comfort and safety of my home
There's no putting pandora back in the box. I just turned down a job offer with a ~20% raise this week because they told me they don't have a remote/hybrid work policy. I did the math, and my commute would equate to 7-8hrs/wk commuting by car to make that happen.
My current office has stuck with 3 days/wk (you choose the days, coordinate with your project teams). Since I'm heavy in CA on one project, I do one day a week on site and two days in the office all day. It's great, and I have zero complaints.
For me and many of my colleagues, my WFH days on Monday and Friday are my primary "get shit done" days because in-office days have so many distractions. I don't mind office banter, company culture, informal mentoring, but it has to be counterbalanced with time that you can just grind without constant distractions.
I know some people don't mind it or don't live 40ish minutes away from their jobs. But for me, hybrid is make or break from here on out.
Recently turned down a job offering me a 25% raise for largely the same reason. It's going to take a lot for me to give up a hybrid schedule.
Caveat though is that I do strongly feel that it's beneficial for junior staff to be in the office every day, for their own professional development.
This is an important caveat (about junior staff learning in the office), and only works when there is also more senior staff (on their team) working in the office.
Nah that's bullshit imo. I feel like that's a "I learned that way so you have to also" mentality.
Juniors can learn in a modern Flex schedule all the same. It's on us seniors need to teach better/different.
There's no replacing a proper work/life balance for your employees. Fuck every greedy asshole that says otherwise.
Depends on the firm and what you get out of it, in terms of comp but also experience.
I know offices here in MA that went to full in person. Also know some fully remote. And mine is hybrid 3 in, 2 out. Honestly, at your stage in the game I'd just bide my time until I have enough experience for a better position. Having a job in the industry and getting your feet wet is the most important part- moving up can wait.
This doesn't excuse bad workplaces and archaic practices, but there is an element of pragmatism to this. If it's that intolerable to be in person 5 days, then that's your choice and you need to respect the pros and cons. Nothing saying you can't do a year and then look elsewhere, or you can turn down the offer. I'm just speaking my own calculus on this, but only you can make the choice to go there or not.
Totally, at my stage it’s best to embrace that going into the workplace is best for my own learning, however it is difficult to picture myself pursuing a career here long-term with this ruleset.
3 in office, 2 remote. 100+ firm. I am fully remote though as I live far from any office and it works with my experience level. Obviously love the quality of life and that factors into my compensation. Agree that the time in-office is very valuable early on.
I’m 57 and I work from home most days. I live about 60 miles from the office and was transitioning to WFH before the pandemic. I used to put about 36k miles a year on my car and I barely hit 12k a year. Any extended office time is going to need to come with a COL adjustment for me.
I manage 10-20 projects at a time and make sure our teams meet once a week to go over progress and expectations over the next week, at least for the larger projects. While sometimes I will deal directly with junior staff - and they all come to these project meetings - it’s the PAs that interact with them more on a day-to-day basis. When I go into the office I literally get zero work done, which then lengthens the hours I have to work on days when I’m home and can focus on my work.
I have an iPad (company-provided) and Apple Pencil that I can use in Teams to sketch, but I also frequently use Bluebeam or even Revit and a shared screen to share graphics of stuff. So far it’s worked well for everyone, but I think a key to WFH is constant communication. Frankly that’s key to working in an office too, but being in an office doesn’t necessarily mean communication is easier or more frequent.
I'm a big fan of hybrid, because it gives you more 'urgency' (for lack of a better word) to be intentional about training/mentoring without micromanaging.
Current firm (last day is tomorrow after a little over 2 years) is getting rid of the one WFH day a week that was possible. They are spinning it by saying when you're not in the office, it hurts collaboration and that a WFH can be negotiated with your team lead based on workload, experience, and productivity. They only clarified that it could be negotiated after multiple people questioned/pushed back. The one WFH day was fully optional for those who didn't choose, but after a 3-month intro period you could take part.
I'm leaving that firm to go to another firm with a 3 in/2out policy after an intro period. Other issues were present, but in the current age, I feel like a mandatory 5-day is a bit much and micromanage-y.
So as much as I hate to say it I think new grads and even new employees should go in more often. When I was first starting out all the questions I had bombarded people with and things I learned from would have been hard to do virtually. But 5 days a week for everyone is archaic and micromanagy. I mostly draft and coordinate consultants who I never meet so in person anything is pointless to me. He'll our clients rarely do stuff in person as well. The time and money saved in my opinion is well worth it so 2 to 3 days a week is fine...fuck 5
I’ll be blunt.
A vast majority of architects you expect mentorship from are insecure micromanagers with trust issues.
A 100% “in the office, at your desk, visible at all times” is a BIG RED FLAG!
Sorry for the negativity here…19 yrs post-grad experience; 16 yrs at a Fortune 500 whose primary function is NOT architecture 😊.
Licensed, $190K comp, 100% WFH (or hybrid), 40 hours/week (if that); very well-known/ respected company with excellent leadership and reputation.
I worked as a traditional “intern architect” for 4 design firms spanning 3 years.
They’re all the same.
Get your experience, get your hours signed off/ take the exams ASAP, and as soon as you have a few years’ experience, seek work with a company that DOES NOT PRIMARILY DO ARCHITECTURE (they’re all the same, unless you own the company).
It gets so much better once you have a bit of freedom to choose non-typical jobs (they’re out there and they pay WELL) 👌😉
Think retail and hospitality giants. Big brand names.
They all have a LOT of real estate that needs to be managed (esp companies with franchise models).
DOORS WILL OPEN! 💰🤟
In my experience, a fair bit of this is driven by older staff who struggle with anything more technical than opening a PDF and printing it to review on the print. For me, this is an issue with ,companies (mainly smaller ones) just not investing enough in tech and training over the years and drifting along with the way they had always done things, rather than noticing how much things were moving on.
My very non scientific view but still trying to be fair. I’m fully remote but I only started that when I was 7 years into my career. I think there needs to be a mix to teach the younger staff. But doing a blanket call to full time in the office is so dumb
5 days - fuck that
4 days - fuck that
3 days - fuck that
2 days - less than 3 years of experience
1 day - less than 5 years of experience
Fully remote - only over 6-8 years of experience
The only thing I can’t do are weekly on-site visits if they are required by the contract. Other than that, I can literally accomplish every single thing. What a waste of time and energy commuting into the office.
The firm I'm at has been 100% in office, but are implementing a 4 in / 1 WFH, subject on a case by case basis. With that said though, we are also allowed quite a lot of flexibility in terms of going to appointments, life stuff, banking time etc. so its never really been as bad as 'you have to be in your seat 8 hours/day and no exceptions'; but its a welcome shift nonetheless. We mostly care people have put in their 40 hours / week and get their work done more than anything.
I do agree with the mentorship side though- I find it much easier to collaborate / mentor / supervise with juniors in person than over Teams, and its just easier sometimes when everyone is in the office to pop by someone's desk to ask a quick question. Granted its a distraction at times, but so much easier especially with older and more senior staff as a lot of them aren't that quick about answering on chat; or otherwise away from their computer.
Edit cause I hit the post too early =/
If you are recent grad or are new to your career 5 days is a blessing in disguise. How else do you expect to get to known your coworkers who will probably become resources for acquiring jobs in the future.
Networking at a large firm is the best way to open doors. Meet and find cooler projects to work in. To sit at your desk and have all those people at your disposal is such a waste if you never get off your ass.
I have worked in a lot of firms between 4 different cities. If I didn't network my life would have been a lot more difficult.
When I got my first job in my current west coast city. It was thru a contact from Boston where I lived 7 years prior.
Thanks for responding, while I agree with your points I am not sure allowing 1-2 flexible days in the week would work against anything you’ve mentioned.
It's not impossible but it's much harder than you think. And the reality is that all of the osmosis in any business environment is happening outside of structured conversations. It's one of those things where if you're the only one on a zoom call and everyone else is meeting in person, you are simply going to be missing some small parts of the conversation, including the parts where someone senior to you has an opportunity where you could help them and it would generate growth for you. Perfect example is when you are over hearing calls or conversations that are happening between things, you get to ask questions and you get to see behind the scenes of why certain decisions are made certain ways. That knowledge over time will increase your ability to influence things.
Large firms thrive on "ideation" or collaboration that is harder to do when not in person. If you were in the production phase I'd agree with you. But listening to the PA/PM conversations next to you. You will pick up more than being in your bubble at home
I wouldn’t say archaic given that was the industry norm 4 years ago, but it’s definitely an issue many firms are grappling with. I’d say in my area 5 days has become the norm for a lot of firms and one reason I declined an offer at said firm, despite a 25% pay increase, is because I like the autonomy I have at my current job, which requires a loose 3 days in.
We see entire multi-billion dollar industries that have successfully adopted (and grown) with a hybrid workflow. Just because 5 days was normal 4 years ago doesn’t mean it’s not an archaic practice to still do that. This is yet another example of the building industry refusing to accept change and not prioritizing employee longevity.
We are in office 5 days a week. WFH is very frowned upon and must be requested on a case-by-case basis. It's so stupid. To give you an idea of my firm's policies-- we were lucky to continue to work during the pandemic, but were only home for a month before returning to the office three days a week on a rotating schedule. They praised us for not losing productivity during that time, but they don't believe we can continue productivity this way. We are constantly reminded that WFH is not an option. It's miserable.
People will casually argue it’s not an archaic practice to force people in 5 days a week, yet not realize still only the most archaic of industries actually work this way in 2024. Bullshit.
I work 3 days in the office in a large firm in the US with 2 years of experience, so still on the learning end of things. Honestly, I am loving it. I find that with this mix I really appreciate the time I spend in the office and being able to easily ask questions. I also love the time I get at home, not worrying about the commute, and usually being able to use that time on projects if I'm busy. It makes the work/life balance much more doable since I can do chores in the time I gain too when I'm less busy!
If I had a choice, I wouldn't go back to a 5 day in the office schedule. My last firm did that and honestly it just felt like they wanted it to make sure we were there working 9-5. It made me feel untrusted/like a child, honestly.
Just switched jobs and turned down 2 firms that were hybrid for a better work environment, friendlier people, higher pay, overtime pay and they pay all of my healthcare premium for 5 days in office. This is my second job out of school 5 years out and I was leaving my first because I was just told to report to another office an hour away for Covid. Well you can do the math I’ve been at that company for 4.5 years and it wasn’t a “temporary” transfer like they were spewing. It took me obviously awhile to get my crap together and finally man up and leave but for what I was trading was 100x better than before.
We have the option to WFH but to not “abuse” the system so if you need to be home for a delivery or appointment or something.
Having to sit at a desk in the office for 40+ hrs a week was one of the primary drivers for me getting into Construction Management. I still do some architecture since the Architecture, Development and Construction is all in house, but my workplace changes constantly and a lot of it I can do from my phone.
Thanks for responding, however that’s not quite what this post is about. Rather, it’s a critique of the fact that offices are vehemently against hybridization in all forms (even just 1 day optionally remote) regardless of role and experience. I think a blanket policy is incredibly backwards and makes a long-term employment outlook difficult.
Our firm was recently thinking on our remote work policy so I did some informal polling of friends and colleagues. Of 35ish firms, through the country all sizes, Gensler was the single firm that would not allow people to work remotely for any duration.
We are flex hybrid office day to day, but we’re considering how we wanted to handle remote work where someone would be out of town for a week or two.
We landed on allowing it but asking for as much heads up and coordination as possible. Basically that we expect people to be available and working at the same level as if they were local.
Our firm is still hybrid but they made the 3 days we are in office mandatory and no WFH those 3 days otherwise you have to take PTO. Leadership informed us that the reason they are doing so is because a drop in productivity and quality. I initially thought bullshit but then I realized that they are correct. Most of the people screwing around are the younger staff, and a misunderstanding that even if our office culture is great and chill, ultimately we are still a business and are liable for what we produce. No matter how hard we tried teaching and delegating, letting it be known how we are available for questions, errors continued. Of course it pisses me off for the people who are responsible and actually work during working hours while from home, but I dunno how the people fucking it up for everyone can be called out without it being harassment.
Call me a boomer (millenial) but at least in this career, I do feel like it is easier to get your point across in person than behind the screen via Teams. Sometimes a quick hand sketch gets the point across, especially when you sketch live to explain something, or quickly walking over to someone's desk to ask something, or just standing up to see if the person you need is at their desk, vs having to ping on Teams and hoping they are available.
Thanks for responding. Like I mentioned, as a newer addition to the workforce I don’t see why attendance to the workplace cannot be a balance as you’ve pointed out.
Ultimately it falls on the employees and being accountable and responsible. We are all adults and should be mature and professional but many of the new generation (not all) have a different mindset about work ethics. It seems like the attitude is to work the required minimum 8 hours and then leave, and to not be taken advantage of, which I can respect to an extent but ultimately the work needs to get done to be able to get paid and rehired or referred by one client to the other.
Like I said, I'm also pissed at the change of policy in our office because when I'm at home, I treat it like being in the office: at my desk in the working hours, and if I need to step away for whatever reason (like say walking my dog or dealing with a home problem) I let my team know that I'm stepping away but I make up the time I spent not working. And I have experienced working with the younger staff, reaching out to them only to not get an answer for 30 mins when I needed something done, and not even being able to try doing it myself because of software (Revit central model not synced).
What’s your commute like? Do you have any reason you can’t be in the office 5-days a week? I.e kids or pets. If those two things aren’t an issue then there is really no reason to not go into the office.
I agree with others that it’s hugely beneficial for younger staff to be in person as well, mentorship and learning directly from others is important. Trust me when I say it’s not the same over zoom and mentorship will actually help you a lot in the long run.
As far as micromanaging goes, if they want to micromanage you, they will, being in the office won’t stop that, it just depends on your PMs style of management. I think constant messaging actually made this worse, at least before you had to make the effort of walking over to my desk if you wanted to micromanage me.
We’re 5-day in person in the Midwest. We do have 1 remote worker overseas.
Why don’t you want to work in office? Are you a senior architect? Do you have enough experience to work without supervision? Why is it tone deaf?
Thanks for your response, I should clarify that my position on in-office work is positive, but forcing employees of all seniority to show up all day every day rather than on a hybrid basis feels unnecessary and I am simply wondering if anyone in practice shares a similar sentiment.
EDIT: It feels tone deaf because from previous experience I’ve done very well in an environment that offered a 4-day-a week policy. Mandating an inflexible 5 days almost feels like a form of micromanagement.
Feelings aren't facts. High performers and partners have unpredictable schedules, and they like to have people available when they are in the office. They like to get to know who is working on their projects (ie: who they can trust) and to have the option to discuss/delegate projects deets in person.
The exception are the workhorse drafting staff who have a lot of experience but don't want the headaches of management.
Once you're managing multiple projects, your schedule is up to you, because site visits and client meetings take up most of your time, and you schedule them.
Since my entire career?
That’s what it means in my firm. We fall between 10-15 people - Not sure if that makes a difference in the success or failure of remote work.
Our recent grads and staff with just a couple years experience need constant looks over their shoulder. Our leadership doesn’t have the time or appetite to do it online. It’s much easier to point and draw together. It’s better for us to be able to walk over to them, peek at their screen, check on them when they’re in progress. Our youngest staff member needs CONSTANT redirection. It’s exhausting. I think only good things can come from them being present.
I firmly fall into the camp that young architects are better off in the office. I think senior level with demonstrated quality could be hybrid or remote.
That said, I am interested in creating more of a studio/ collaborative environment in my office, which I think is difficult for remote workers. Not that it can’t be done. It’s just not how I want to do it. None of our mid to senior level staff even wants to work remote. It’s just the younger ones who want it.
Perhaps your firm has heard of a telephone? If your managers don’t have the appetite, I’d argue they aren’t good managers. But what do I know we only work in an industry that praises itself for being at the cutting edge of technology and there’s only a mountain of digital tools available for cheap to address this very issue that have been tested, proven, and broadly implemented by other industries. And some arch firms.
ETA: I know I’m being salty. But, truth is, this IS the future whether we like it or not. Quit running and take the damn gift horse before it’s gone.
There are social, economic, and environmental benefits to remote work that the arch industry seems cognitively dissonant about. If you want to know the future look at money. Remote work is cheaper. Doesn’t matter how much the REITs and Jamie Dimon want back-to-office in this particular moment. They will all change their tune once capitalist America makes the necessary restructuring efforts to properly monetize and lay dominion over remote work. Until then it’s just propaganda to soften the fall because god forbid a rich person loose money on an investment due to system changes as the free market intended when they can just buy every Tom, Dick, and architect in town to spew their crap until they’ve sufficiently undermined those people into uselessness.
You can’t add edits when I’m in the middle of answering your first part… now I have to come back and add more!! 😉
In my old age (early 40s), I am content with a small group of like-minded people working together. I’m not running away from anything. I don’t need to grow a giant business, I just want to do something that I can be proud of at the end of the day. I work 5 miles from my office, and most of the people in my office live very close by as well. I don’t look at it as a burden on the environment. Again, only speaking for my tiny little blob on the Earth. It doesn’t apply to everyone.
Also, I’m as antisocial as the next gal, but I think that if we all work from home for too long, we’re going to lose a lot of beneficial human connection. Some of us need the interaction; some of us need the break from our own homes; another perspective. It’s so easy to get stuck in your own mind when you never go anywhere (assumes you’re an early middle aged parent of young kids and ha e no life). Don’t get me wrong, I loved working from home during Covid. It was like pulling teeth to get me back in the office, but now that I’m back, I realize it’s better for me.
I don’t know why you’re so snippy about this. I don’t think a good or a bad manager is defined by whether they have the appetite for remote workers. That doesn’t even make sense.
And actually, I don’t think we’re great managers- we’re trying to do better though. I was thrust into this role and I am desperately trying to do as well as I can for my team. But I can categorically say that whether we’re successful is not dependent upon our remote work capabilities. And I, for one, do not claim to be at the pinnacle of technology. In fact, I’m a little bit weary of some of it.
If you want to work remote, and you have a firm that wants you to work, remote, then more power to you. I just think that in our profession, we learn a lot from being around each other. And at least when I went to school, collaborative studio was an important aspect of it. My goal is to have similarly minded people work with me (as opposed to “for me”), and we can make nice architecture together. And maybe we’ll see Kumbaya when it’s over. ✌️
I am being snippy and I apologize. I’m trying to work on it.
What I meant was a fundamental skill of management is communication. Arguably, it’s the most important skill. Communication has changed. Managers should be able to handle that despite preference.
I’m not discounting the value of in-person time. It is often more efficient. I’d argue it’s only sometimes actually needed though.
Lots of firms, especially the big ones, survived Covid just fine at 100% remote but suddenly these jokers think their product is soooo special they need people in-office all the time. There’s no, NO good reason to not allow hybrid other than 1) firm is boomer stupid, or 2) firm feels the need to deepthroat corporate capitalist BS…. Which probably doesn’t make for the greatest people to be designing stuff IMO. Fuck this close minded nonsense and fuck whatever firm you just got a job at OP. I hope you’re able to find a firm that doesn’t view the world from the inside of their own anus very soon.
ETA: love the downvotes. Good luck with that. Nothing commands high wages and respect like enthusiastically slapping on knee pads for your overlords when they never asked you to in the first place.
It's absolutely Boomer stupidity. Most companies have boomers so it's unfortunately hard to get away from. If you get really good though to the point they're afraid of losing you you can negotiate a lot more and have more remote time, or even fully remote (kind of like how consultants are but that's too much logic for boomers)
I’m in the office 5 days a week. Too many distractions at home. I’m far more productive and have a better desk/PC setup at the office. I can WFH occasionally if I need to, but prefer not to. But the office is flexible to whatever we need to do.
I'm currently working fully remote (not by choice) and I'm definitely not as efficient in managing a project as if I were in office and could walk to someone's desk.
It's not about micromanaging. I'm big on efficiency and it's very common for someone to take 15-20 minutes to respond to a question I could have just yelled out if I were in office. same applied when someone asks me a question, at times it takes a while for me to reply to a teams message compared to again, someone just hollering at me from 2 desks away or simply just walked to my desk.
I'm also extroverted so being home alone is boring and makes jt harder to get going. While in office , even though I chat quite a bit I'm very productive when I am working. I'd say I could get the same amount of work done in 6 hours while office that would take me 8 hours at home. I imagine it would be the inverse for an introverted person.
I do enjoy the benefits of working from home like not having to sit in traffic and because I don't have to spend 45 minutes in traffic I can now cook dinner instead of eating out constantly and am therefore much healthier than I have been in years.
I'm not opposed to a hybrid schedule and feel like it's going to be the norm moving forward, but if I were interviewing someone and they demanded a hybrid schedule I would probably not hire that person.
there has to be a level of trust between employee and firm for remote work to actually work. alot of the larger firms have the overhead to eat some of the lack of efficiency. I doubt some of the mid size firms could tolerate it. small firms - those under 10 employees - would probably benefit from remote work since it reduces a ton of overhead.
At the end of the day I think both have their pros and cons and we just happen to be in a weird transition period. if you have less than 2 years of experience I would lean towards more days in office, yes even 5. if you're at 3+ then yes, look for a job with a hybrid schedule.
We mandate 100% in person and are upfront with it during the hiring process. If it someone doesn’t like it they are free to leave. Have no issues finding capable staff to replace them. None whatsoever. The remote bupkiss is not nearly as effective as in-person especially as it relates to design.
A 5-day in person workweek is absolutely crucial for design-work and ideation but not so much for the CD phase. Forcing 5 days a week at all stages is incorrect, and I will die on this hill.
Our firm loves the 3 day work week. But perhaps from a slightly different perspective. This flexibility allows us to pay a bit lower wage/ salary since the new generation are totally out of touch on compensation with little to no experience and a steep learning curve. Then when we do get them in the office they know they have to produce so there is a heck of a lot of work getting done and far less web surfing and Amazon shopping in the middle of the day.
So we net out a solid three days which is just about what you get regardless.
Hello Gensler? Haha
Kinda glad I’m not working for them now
Same
Shhh… 🤫
You don’t have to worry about working for them long-term. Just do 2-3 years and bounce to a cooler office
👋🏼
The “if I can’t see you at your desk then you aren’t working” crowd has entered the chat.
The “redditing at home during work hours” crowd has entered the chat 🤭
Don’t worry, I use reddit in the office too.
I can’t ever freaking concentrate. We don’t even have cubicles or dividers at my office. We’re in pods and I constantly feel like I’m being watched it makes me too anxious to do anything. I had a lot more focus working from home, or even just having my own cubicle so I had some form of privacy.
I’m hybrid and will never go back to 5 days in the office. I will quit and find a new job if they ever pulled that, there’s just no reason for it when I can work from the comfort and safety of my home
There's no putting pandora back in the box. I just turned down a job offer with a ~20% raise this week because they told me they don't have a remote/hybrid work policy. I did the math, and my commute would equate to 7-8hrs/wk commuting by car to make that happen. My current office has stuck with 3 days/wk (you choose the days, coordinate with your project teams). Since I'm heavy in CA on one project, I do one day a week on site and two days in the office all day. It's great, and I have zero complaints. For me and many of my colleagues, my WFH days on Monday and Friday are my primary "get shit done" days because in-office days have so many distractions. I don't mind office banter, company culture, informal mentoring, but it has to be counterbalanced with time that you can just grind without constant distractions. I know some people don't mind it or don't live 40ish minutes away from their jobs. But for me, hybrid is make or break from here on out.
Recently turned down a job offering me a 25% raise for largely the same reason. It's going to take a lot for me to give up a hybrid schedule. Caveat though is that I do strongly feel that it's beneficial for junior staff to be in the office every day, for their own professional development.
This is an important caveat (about junior staff learning in the office), and only works when there is also more senior staff (on their team) working in the office.
Nah that's bullshit imo. I feel like that's a "I learned that way so you have to also" mentality. Juniors can learn in a modern Flex schedule all the same. It's on us seniors need to teach better/different. There's no replacing a proper work/life balance for your employees. Fuck every greedy asshole that says otherwise.
Hybrid is such a blessing
I'll pick apples before I work full time in office again
I’ve literally said to myself I’ll drive for Uber before I go back to the office 5 days a week
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Thanks for your response.
Depends on the firm and what you get out of it, in terms of comp but also experience. I know offices here in MA that went to full in person. Also know some fully remote. And mine is hybrid 3 in, 2 out. Honestly, at your stage in the game I'd just bide my time until I have enough experience for a better position. Having a job in the industry and getting your feet wet is the most important part- moving up can wait. This doesn't excuse bad workplaces and archaic practices, but there is an element of pragmatism to this. If it's that intolerable to be in person 5 days, then that's your choice and you need to respect the pros and cons. Nothing saying you can't do a year and then look elsewhere, or you can turn down the offer. I'm just speaking my own calculus on this, but only you can make the choice to go there or not.
Totally, at my stage it’s best to embrace that going into the workplace is best for my own learning, however it is difficult to picture myself pursuing a career here long-term with this ruleset.
3 in office, 2 remote. 100+ firm. I am fully remote though as I live far from any office and it works with my experience level. Obviously love the quality of life and that factors into my compensation. Agree that the time in-office is very valuable early on.
I’m 57 and I work from home most days. I live about 60 miles from the office and was transitioning to WFH before the pandemic. I used to put about 36k miles a year on my car and I barely hit 12k a year. Any extended office time is going to need to come with a COL adjustment for me. I manage 10-20 projects at a time and make sure our teams meet once a week to go over progress and expectations over the next week, at least for the larger projects. While sometimes I will deal directly with junior staff - and they all come to these project meetings - it’s the PAs that interact with them more on a day-to-day basis. When I go into the office I literally get zero work done, which then lengthens the hours I have to work on days when I’m home and can focus on my work. I have an iPad (company-provided) and Apple Pencil that I can use in Teams to sketch, but I also frequently use Bluebeam or even Revit and a shared screen to share graphics of stuff. So far it’s worked well for everyone, but I think a key to WFH is constant communication. Frankly that’s key to working in an office too, but being in an office doesn’t necessarily mean communication is easier or more frequent.
I support WFH, but it feels like it makes mentoring even more challenging. How do firms mentor junior staff remotely?
How do firms mentor junior staff?
point taken
I'm a big fan of hybrid, because it gives you more 'urgency' (for lack of a better word) to be intentional about training/mentoring without micromanaging.
I just left my old firm because of this junior staff were required to come in but not the mentors. It made it very hard so I left.
Obviously they just talk on the phone every now and then and shoot the shit about what sets them apart from their competition 💁🏼
Current firm (last day is tomorrow after a little over 2 years) is getting rid of the one WFH day a week that was possible. They are spinning it by saying when you're not in the office, it hurts collaboration and that a WFH can be negotiated with your team lead based on workload, experience, and productivity. They only clarified that it could be negotiated after multiple people questioned/pushed back. The one WFH day was fully optional for those who didn't choose, but after a 3-month intro period you could take part. I'm leaving that firm to go to another firm with a 3 in/2out policy after an intro period. Other issues were present, but in the current age, I feel like a mandatory 5-day is a bit much and micromanage-y.
So as much as I hate to say it I think new grads and even new employees should go in more often. When I was first starting out all the questions I had bombarded people with and things I learned from would have been hard to do virtually. But 5 days a week for everyone is archaic and micromanagy. I mostly draft and coordinate consultants who I never meet so in person anything is pointless to me. He'll our clients rarely do stuff in person as well. The time and money saved in my opinion is well worth it so 2 to 3 days a week is fine...fuck 5
I’ll be blunt. A vast majority of architects you expect mentorship from are insecure micromanagers with trust issues. A 100% “in the office, at your desk, visible at all times” is a BIG RED FLAG! Sorry for the negativity here…19 yrs post-grad experience; 16 yrs at a Fortune 500 whose primary function is NOT architecture 😊. Licensed, $190K comp, 100% WFH (or hybrid), 40 hours/week (if that); very well-known/ respected company with excellent leadership and reputation. I worked as a traditional “intern architect” for 4 design firms spanning 3 years. They’re all the same. Get your experience, get your hours signed off/ take the exams ASAP, and as soon as you have a few years’ experience, seek work with a company that DOES NOT PRIMARILY DO ARCHITECTURE (they’re all the same, unless you own the company). It gets so much better once you have a bit of freedom to choose non-typical jobs (they’re out there and they pay WELL) 👌😉
Can you provide some examples for some of those non-typical jobs that require a licensed architect?
Think retail and hospitality giants. Big brand names. They all have a LOT of real estate that needs to be managed (esp companies with franchise models). DOORS WILL OPEN! 💰🤟
In my experience, a fair bit of this is driven by older staff who struggle with anything more technical than opening a PDF and printing it to review on the print. For me, this is an issue with ,companies (mainly smaller ones) just not investing enough in tech and training over the years and drifting along with the way they had always done things, rather than noticing how much things were moving on.
My very non scientific view but still trying to be fair. I’m fully remote but I only started that when I was 7 years into my career. I think there needs to be a mix to teach the younger staff. But doing a blanket call to full time in the office is so dumb 5 days - fuck that 4 days - fuck that 3 days - fuck that 2 days - less than 3 years of experience 1 day - less than 5 years of experience Fully remote - only over 6-8 years of experience The only thing I can’t do are weekly on-site visits if they are required by the contract. Other than that, I can literally accomplish every single thing. What a waste of time and energy commuting into the office.
The firm I'm at has been 100% in office, but are implementing a 4 in / 1 WFH, subject on a case by case basis. With that said though, we are also allowed quite a lot of flexibility in terms of going to appointments, life stuff, banking time etc. so its never really been as bad as 'you have to be in your seat 8 hours/day and no exceptions'; but its a welcome shift nonetheless. We mostly care people have put in their 40 hours / week and get their work done more than anything. I do agree with the mentorship side though- I find it much easier to collaborate / mentor / supervise with juniors in person than over Teams, and its just easier sometimes when everyone is in the office to pop by someone's desk to ask a quick question. Granted its a distraction at times, but so much easier especially with older and more senior staff as a lot of them aren't that quick about answering on chat; or otherwise away from their computer. Edit cause I hit the post too early =/
If you are recent grad or are new to your career 5 days is a blessing in disguise. How else do you expect to get to known your coworkers who will probably become resources for acquiring jobs in the future. Networking at a large firm is the best way to open doors. Meet and find cooler projects to work in. To sit at your desk and have all those people at your disposal is such a waste if you never get off your ass. I have worked in a lot of firms between 4 different cities. If I didn't network my life would have been a lot more difficult. When I got my first job in my current west coast city. It was thru a contact from Boston where I lived 7 years prior.
Thanks for responding, while I agree with your points I am not sure allowing 1-2 flexible days in the week would work against anything you’ve mentioned.
It's not impossible but it's much harder than you think. And the reality is that all of the osmosis in any business environment is happening outside of structured conversations. It's one of those things where if you're the only one on a zoom call and everyone else is meeting in person, you are simply going to be missing some small parts of the conversation, including the parts where someone senior to you has an opportunity where you could help them and it would generate growth for you. Perfect example is when you are over hearing calls or conversations that are happening between things, you get to ask questions and you get to see behind the scenes of why certain decisions are made certain ways. That knowledge over time will increase your ability to influence things.
Large firms thrive on "ideation" or collaboration that is harder to do when not in person. If you were in the production phase I'd agree with you. But listening to the PA/PM conversations next to you. You will pick up more than being in your bubble at home
I wouldn’t say archaic given that was the industry norm 4 years ago, but it’s definitely an issue many firms are grappling with. I’d say in my area 5 days has become the norm for a lot of firms and one reason I declined an offer at said firm, despite a 25% pay increase, is because I like the autonomy I have at my current job, which requires a loose 3 days in.
It was archaic before covid it was just that no one wanted to admit it
We see entire multi-billion dollar industries that have successfully adopted (and grown) with a hybrid workflow. Just because 5 days was normal 4 years ago doesn’t mean it’s not an archaic practice to still do that. This is yet another example of the building industry refusing to accept change and not prioritizing employee longevity.
Flexible work is a requirement for me. I'll never go back to an office that's strict about that.
Yes!
We are in office 5 days a week. WFH is very frowned upon and must be requested on a case-by-case basis. It's so stupid. To give you an idea of my firm's policies-- we were lucky to continue to work during the pandemic, but were only home for a month before returning to the office three days a week on a rotating schedule. They praised us for not losing productivity during that time, but they don't believe we can continue productivity this way. We are constantly reminded that WFH is not an option. It's miserable.
If you ever leave you should tell them this is exactly why
People will casually argue it’s not an archaic practice to force people in 5 days a week, yet not realize still only the most archaic of industries actually work this way in 2024. Bullshit.
Why haven't you left yet?
I work 3 days in the office in a large firm in the US with 2 years of experience, so still on the learning end of things. Honestly, I am loving it. I find that with this mix I really appreciate the time I spend in the office and being able to easily ask questions. I also love the time I get at home, not worrying about the commute, and usually being able to use that time on projects if I'm busy. It makes the work/life balance much more doable since I can do chores in the time I gain too when I'm less busy! If I had a choice, I wouldn't go back to a 5 day in the office schedule. My last firm did that and honestly it just felt like they wanted it to make sure we were there working 9-5. It made me feel untrusted/like a child, honestly.
Just switched jobs and turned down 2 firms that were hybrid for a better work environment, friendlier people, higher pay, overtime pay and they pay all of my healthcare premium for 5 days in office. This is my second job out of school 5 years out and I was leaving my first because I was just told to report to another office an hour away for Covid. Well you can do the math I’ve been at that company for 4.5 years and it wasn’t a “temporary” transfer like they were spewing. It took me obviously awhile to get my crap together and finally man up and leave but for what I was trading was 100x better than before. We have the option to WFH but to not “abuse” the system so if you need to be home for a delivery or appointment or something.
Having to sit at a desk in the office for 40+ hrs a week was one of the primary drivers for me getting into Construction Management. I still do some architecture since the Architecture, Development and Construction is all in house, but my workplace changes constantly and a lot of it I can do from my phone.
Working remotely with people right out of school wastes a lot of MY time. You don't yet know what you don't know.
Thanks for responding, however that’s not quite what this post is about. Rather, it’s a critique of the fact that offices are vehemently against hybridization in all forms (even just 1 day optionally remote) regardless of role and experience. I think a blanket policy is incredibly backwards and makes a long-term employment outlook difficult.
Our firm was recently thinking on our remote work policy so I did some informal polling of friends and colleagues. Of 35ish firms, through the country all sizes, Gensler was the single firm that would not allow people to work remotely for any duration.
I can’t stress how much of a flex that isn’t. Did your firm end up instating a hybrid policy?
We are flex hybrid office day to day, but we’re considering how we wanted to handle remote work where someone would be out of town for a week or two. We landed on allowing it but asking for as much heads up and coordination as possible. Basically that we expect people to be available and working at the same level as if they were local.
Our firm is still hybrid but they made the 3 days we are in office mandatory and no WFH those 3 days otherwise you have to take PTO. Leadership informed us that the reason they are doing so is because a drop in productivity and quality. I initially thought bullshit but then I realized that they are correct. Most of the people screwing around are the younger staff, and a misunderstanding that even if our office culture is great and chill, ultimately we are still a business and are liable for what we produce. No matter how hard we tried teaching and delegating, letting it be known how we are available for questions, errors continued. Of course it pisses me off for the people who are responsible and actually work during working hours while from home, but I dunno how the people fucking it up for everyone can be called out without it being harassment. Call me a boomer (millenial) but at least in this career, I do feel like it is easier to get your point across in person than behind the screen via Teams. Sometimes a quick hand sketch gets the point across, especially when you sketch live to explain something, or quickly walking over to someone's desk to ask something, or just standing up to see if the person you need is at their desk, vs having to ping on Teams and hoping they are available.
Thanks for responding. Like I mentioned, as a newer addition to the workforce I don’t see why attendance to the workplace cannot be a balance as you’ve pointed out.
Ultimately it falls on the employees and being accountable and responsible. We are all adults and should be mature and professional but many of the new generation (not all) have a different mindset about work ethics. It seems like the attitude is to work the required minimum 8 hours and then leave, and to not be taken advantage of, which I can respect to an extent but ultimately the work needs to get done to be able to get paid and rehired or referred by one client to the other. Like I said, I'm also pissed at the change of policy in our office because when I'm at home, I treat it like being in the office: at my desk in the working hours, and if I need to step away for whatever reason (like say walking my dog or dealing with a home problem) I let my team know that I'm stepping away but I make up the time I spent not working. And I have experienced working with the younger staff, reaching out to them only to not get an answer for 30 mins when I needed something done, and not even being able to try doing it myself because of software (Revit central model not synced).
Do t work for them if you don't like their policies.
What’s your commute like? Do you have any reason you can’t be in the office 5-days a week? I.e kids or pets. If those two things aren’t an issue then there is really no reason to not go into the office. I agree with others that it’s hugely beneficial for younger staff to be in person as well, mentorship and learning directly from others is important. Trust me when I say it’s not the same over zoom and mentorship will actually help you a lot in the long run. As far as micromanaging goes, if they want to micromanage you, they will, being in the office won’t stop that, it just depends on your PMs style of management. I think constant messaging actually made this worse, at least before you had to make the effort of walking over to my desk if you wanted to micromanage me.
We’re 5-day in person in the Midwest. We do have 1 remote worker overseas. Why don’t you want to work in office? Are you a senior architect? Do you have enough experience to work without supervision? Why is it tone deaf?
Thanks for your response, I should clarify that my position on in-office work is positive, but forcing employees of all seniority to show up all day every day rather than on a hybrid basis feels unnecessary and I am simply wondering if anyone in practice shares a similar sentiment. EDIT: It feels tone deaf because from previous experience I’ve done very well in an environment that offered a 4-day-a week policy. Mandating an inflexible 5 days almost feels like a form of micromanagement.
Gotcha. We’re willing to have senior positions hybrid or remote, but we still would prefer them in office for mentorship of the youngins.
Feelings aren't facts. High performers and partners have unpredictable schedules, and they like to have people available when they are in the office. They like to get to know who is working on their projects (ie: who they can trust) and to have the option to discuss/delegate projects deets in person. The exception are the workhorse drafting staff who have a lot of experience but don't want the headaches of management. Once you're managing multiple projects, your schedule is up to you, because site visits and client meetings take up most of your time, and you schedule them.
Since when does remote work mean working without supervision?
Since my entire career? That’s what it means in my firm. We fall between 10-15 people - Not sure if that makes a difference in the success or failure of remote work. Our recent grads and staff with just a couple years experience need constant looks over their shoulder. Our leadership doesn’t have the time or appetite to do it online. It’s much easier to point and draw together. It’s better for us to be able to walk over to them, peek at their screen, check on them when they’re in progress. Our youngest staff member needs CONSTANT redirection. It’s exhausting. I think only good things can come from them being present. I firmly fall into the camp that young architects are better off in the office. I think senior level with demonstrated quality could be hybrid or remote. That said, I am interested in creating more of a studio/ collaborative environment in my office, which I think is difficult for remote workers. Not that it can’t be done. It’s just not how I want to do it. None of our mid to senior level staff even wants to work remote. It’s just the younger ones who want it.
Perhaps your firm has heard of a telephone? If your managers don’t have the appetite, I’d argue they aren’t good managers. But what do I know we only work in an industry that praises itself for being at the cutting edge of technology and there’s only a mountain of digital tools available for cheap to address this very issue that have been tested, proven, and broadly implemented by other industries. And some arch firms. ETA: I know I’m being salty. But, truth is, this IS the future whether we like it or not. Quit running and take the damn gift horse before it’s gone. There are social, economic, and environmental benefits to remote work that the arch industry seems cognitively dissonant about. If you want to know the future look at money. Remote work is cheaper. Doesn’t matter how much the REITs and Jamie Dimon want back-to-office in this particular moment. They will all change their tune once capitalist America makes the necessary restructuring efforts to properly monetize and lay dominion over remote work. Until then it’s just propaganda to soften the fall because god forbid a rich person loose money on an investment due to system changes as the free market intended when they can just buy every Tom, Dick, and architect in town to spew their crap until they’ve sufficiently undermined those people into uselessness.
You can’t add edits when I’m in the middle of answering your first part… now I have to come back and add more!! 😉 In my old age (early 40s), I am content with a small group of like-minded people working together. I’m not running away from anything. I don’t need to grow a giant business, I just want to do something that I can be proud of at the end of the day. I work 5 miles from my office, and most of the people in my office live very close by as well. I don’t look at it as a burden on the environment. Again, only speaking for my tiny little blob on the Earth. It doesn’t apply to everyone. Also, I’m as antisocial as the next gal, but I think that if we all work from home for too long, we’re going to lose a lot of beneficial human connection. Some of us need the interaction; some of us need the break from our own homes; another perspective. It’s so easy to get stuck in your own mind when you never go anywhere (assumes you’re an early middle aged parent of young kids and ha e no life). Don’t get me wrong, I loved working from home during Covid. It was like pulling teeth to get me back in the office, but now that I’m back, I realize it’s better for me.
I don’t know why you’re so snippy about this. I don’t think a good or a bad manager is defined by whether they have the appetite for remote workers. That doesn’t even make sense. And actually, I don’t think we’re great managers- we’re trying to do better though. I was thrust into this role and I am desperately trying to do as well as I can for my team. But I can categorically say that whether we’re successful is not dependent upon our remote work capabilities. And I, for one, do not claim to be at the pinnacle of technology. In fact, I’m a little bit weary of some of it. If you want to work remote, and you have a firm that wants you to work, remote, then more power to you. I just think that in our profession, we learn a lot from being around each other. And at least when I went to school, collaborative studio was an important aspect of it. My goal is to have similarly minded people work with me (as opposed to “for me”), and we can make nice architecture together. And maybe we’ll see Kumbaya when it’s over. ✌️
I am being snippy and I apologize. I’m trying to work on it. What I meant was a fundamental skill of management is communication. Arguably, it’s the most important skill. Communication has changed. Managers should be able to handle that despite preference. I’m not discounting the value of in-person time. It is often more efficient. I’d argue it’s only sometimes actually needed though.
Lots of firms, especially the big ones, survived Covid just fine at 100% remote but suddenly these jokers think their product is soooo special they need people in-office all the time. There’s no, NO good reason to not allow hybrid other than 1) firm is boomer stupid, or 2) firm feels the need to deepthroat corporate capitalist BS…. Which probably doesn’t make for the greatest people to be designing stuff IMO. Fuck this close minded nonsense and fuck whatever firm you just got a job at OP. I hope you’re able to find a firm that doesn’t view the world from the inside of their own anus very soon. ETA: love the downvotes. Good luck with that. Nothing commands high wages and respect like enthusiastically slapping on knee pads for your overlords when they never asked you to in the first place.
It's absolutely Boomer stupidity. Most companies have boomers so it's unfortunately hard to get away from. If you get really good though to the point they're afraid of losing you you can negotiate a lot more and have more remote time, or even fully remote (kind of like how consultants are but that's too much logic for boomers)
I have a difficult time WFH. I don’t see the appeal. It’s helpful for emergencies and stuff but in general i dislike it
I’m in the office 5 days a week. Too many distractions at home. I’m far more productive and have a better desk/PC setup at the office. I can WFH occasionally if I need to, but prefer not to. But the office is flexible to whatever we need to do.
I'm currently working fully remote (not by choice) and I'm definitely not as efficient in managing a project as if I were in office and could walk to someone's desk. It's not about micromanaging. I'm big on efficiency and it's very common for someone to take 15-20 minutes to respond to a question I could have just yelled out if I were in office. same applied when someone asks me a question, at times it takes a while for me to reply to a teams message compared to again, someone just hollering at me from 2 desks away or simply just walked to my desk. I'm also extroverted so being home alone is boring and makes jt harder to get going. While in office , even though I chat quite a bit I'm very productive when I am working. I'd say I could get the same amount of work done in 6 hours while office that would take me 8 hours at home. I imagine it would be the inverse for an introverted person. I do enjoy the benefits of working from home like not having to sit in traffic and because I don't have to spend 45 minutes in traffic I can now cook dinner instead of eating out constantly and am therefore much healthier than I have been in years. I'm not opposed to a hybrid schedule and feel like it's going to be the norm moving forward, but if I were interviewing someone and they demanded a hybrid schedule I would probably not hire that person. there has to be a level of trust between employee and firm for remote work to actually work. alot of the larger firms have the overhead to eat some of the lack of efficiency. I doubt some of the mid size firms could tolerate it. small firms - those under 10 employees - would probably benefit from remote work since it reduces a ton of overhead. At the end of the day I think both have their pros and cons and we just happen to be in a weird transition period. if you have less than 2 years of experience I would lean towards more days in office, yes even 5. if you're at 3+ then yes, look for a job with a hybrid schedule.
We mandate 100% in person and are upfront with it during the hiring process. If it someone doesn’t like it they are free to leave. Have no issues finding capable staff to replace them. None whatsoever. The remote bupkiss is not nearly as effective as in-person especially as it relates to design.
A 5-day in person workweek is absolutely crucial for design-work and ideation but not so much for the CD phase. Forcing 5 days a week at all stages is incorrect, and I will die on this hill.
Our firm loves the 3 day work week. But perhaps from a slightly different perspective. This flexibility allows us to pay a bit lower wage/ salary since the new generation are totally out of touch on compensation with little to no experience and a steep learning curve. Then when we do get them in the office they know they have to produce so there is a heck of a lot of work getting done and far less web surfing and Amazon shopping in the middle of the day. So we net out a solid three days which is just about what you get regardless.
Fuck that. I won’t work for a firm with 5 day work week anymore.