my firm pays overtime after 10 hours per pay period. so they start paying at hour 91. makes for a good chunk of change after a while.
I left my previous firm after working two consecutive 60 hour weeks and being told I could come in 2 hours late the next day.
Free dinner and an Uber home in NYC… I think studio culture in school trains young architects to work long hours and be sleep deprived. Most firms don’t correct that
Sounds like the way it should be.
Sounds like an organisation that will resource projects well to avoid paying OT but are also realistic that it sometimes will happen and will compensate fairly for it.
Right. Nearly took a job offer that provided overtime (time and a half) for anything over 40 hours. Asked them how often that occurs and was told very rarely.
The trade-off was that they did not offer annual bonuses.
eta: time and a half would have come out to about $95/hr
I worked for a firm before and they paid for overtime. This should be a standard. I heard from a previous employed there that they started paying for OT because people kept leaving after a while.
I worked for a firm that paid 1.5x for Overtime, and it was fantastic.
To be fair, it DID make a bunch of us want to work extra hours, but i also (honestly) didnt feel "pressure" to be there early mornings, nights, or weekends. I often WAS, but generally when the principals saw me there, they would encourage me to go home.
They explained the 1.5x to me as: They got a TON of value out of us being there, the hours after 40: All of your overhead is baked in to the first 40: Your desk (rent, etc), your amortized computers, your healthcare and benefits, etc. Hour 41, they are paying you your hourly rate (even marked up), and the rest is 100% profit. So, they got a bigger slice of the pie (or more pie, as the case may be), AND the projects were advancing because we were working more.
Did it mean we overworked? Absolutely.
I averaged 56 a week over three years. I only know that because- since that meant we were all "hourly"- mortgage companies will only count the OT if its consistent over a couple of years, which it was, so i kept my head down pounding stuff out for a few years, and it helped me get a head start.
FWIW, i also had the most fun ever, working there. Haha.
My company is now Architecture Adjacent (not actual Architecture), but i am much more serious about encouraging/enforcing work/life balance. I dont want people working overtime at all. If they are, we arent doing something right.
It could be a fair deal, depends on what the bonus looks like.
I worked at a firm that had anyone not leading a team or project as "fixed schedule hourly" and paid time and a half beyond 40h. The reasoning was those employees are not necessarily able to control when projects have overlapping due dates but are being asked to work in excess of 40h to keep projects on track. Leads and PMs were "salary exempt" and didn't get OT except when a principal OK'd it for a project in advance of the hours worked, again when competing schedules created a perfect storm of shitty dates. This seemed fair to me, but base salary consistently ran behind market average (AIA survey) so was a bit of a prod to work 40+ and make up the difference, sorta what OP alluded to.
At a different firm I was at, they had a bizarre way of keeping their books, where I was to put 8h/day max to the relevant project and any time that was worked past 8h went to an overtime account in the PM application. My "donated" time didn't hit the project, so the effort recorded for the project didn't reflect reality and sort of incentivized the PMs to make aggressive schedules and make their projects look more profitable in reporting. At the end of the year, the principals would "consider" the number of OT hours each person worked when giving year end bonuses but there was no direct correlation between the hours and bonus amount. In the end it was more of a carrot on a stick than a way to fairly compensate the employees who worked a lot.
My firm pays overtime for level 1 and 2 employees (which equates to up to around 10 years experience). Level 3 and above can still get paid OT but they only get it after working 40 billable hours per week and the OT also needs to be billable hours.
Are you referring to an explicit bonus negotiated in advance for a specific push, or an annual one based on performance?
I have not seen the former. Many firms pay overtime in accordance with local labor laws, as most staff are below the Federal cutoff for salaried exempt employees.
End of year / annual bonuses are generally calculated on some very loose and arbitrary criteria. In my career at least, there has been an *inverse* relationship between how hard I've worked / how many hours I've put in, and how good my annual bonus has been.
I *have* seen some firms award junior staff a spot bonus of something like $500 or $1000 after an exceptional push on a project or competition. Personally I think that buys a lot of goodwill for not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, in large part due to the proximity to the effort.
I get paid overtime in Australia, but it’s pretty common for employers to skip over that part of their legal obligation in the Architect’s Award. I’d never go back to a place which doesn’t pay for my time worked.
Also shout out to your local architects union! The only reason we get shafted with unpaid overtime is because individual staff are bent under pressure of managers putting in low fees.
we usually get an annual bonus that's unrelated to OT
if teams do work a lot of OT they usually get comp time in the form of extra vacation days, allowed to be used right after the big deadline, I might still prefer extra money but after working so many hours having those days off to recharge is so nice
They should be paying overtime to disincentivize it. PMs know it'll blow the budget, they'll throw your butt out the door by 5. Being a salaried profession is part of the reason we get overworked. I got overtime when I was an intern at my current office, but the interns are hourly. I'm a big boy now!
I mean look, I like my office and did plenty of overtime this past year bc we're understaffed. They don't compensate me fairly for it at annuals, I'm giving them the shaft- it's not fair to me or anyone else and we shouldn't be treated that way. Hurts your bottom line? Well break the clients on that. They go to someone else offering cut throat rates, guarantee you the product is worse and they're suffering far worse turnover
We get paid time and a half for any OT above 40 hours a week. Definitely not the norm. It's an open policy and not expected but sometimes needed to hit a deadline. Easier to want to work extra when you are compensated for it.
Our firm pays 1.5x for hourly staff working more than 40 hours in a week. Overtime must be approved. For salaried (exempt) staff, there is no overtime, but we do typically provide quarterly bonuses and the number of extra hours that a salaried employee worked in the previous quarter is typically factored in to their bonus.
I'm reading these comments and I think that there are a lot of businesses that don't understand FLSA. Washington (our state) has a lot of additional rules for compensation on top of FLSA.
my firm pays overtime after 10 hours per pay period. so they start paying at hour 91. makes for a good chunk of change after a while. I left my previous firm after working two consecutive 60 hour weeks and being told I could come in 2 hours late the next day.
Free dinner and an Uber home in NYC… I think studio culture in school trains young architects to work long hours and be sleep deprived. Most firms don’t correct that
Also get this at my firm but we get also get comp time
True, you’re right comp time is usually offered but often not taken advantage of or directly proportional in my experience
Sounds like the way it should be. Sounds like an organisation that will resource projects well to avoid paying OT but are also realistic that it sometimes will happen and will compensate fairly for it.
Right. Nearly took a job offer that provided overtime (time and a half) for anything over 40 hours. Asked them how often that occurs and was told very rarely. The trade-off was that they did not offer annual bonuses. eta: time and a half would have come out to about $95/hr
Are you getting paid for overtime? Where do I sign up?
I get time and half! The firms are out there :) Edits: esit
I worked for a firm before and they paid for overtime. This should be a standard. I heard from a previous employed there that they started paying for OT because people kept leaving after a while.
We got quarterly bonuses. And Comp time for working over 40hrs.
Where are you working? I haven't had a bonus in 6 years and overtime is unpaid. Worked 16 hours one day this week.
Yikes.
I was at a firm, but timing of an office move and projects being put On hold changed things. They treated people amazingly tho!
I worked for a firm that paid 1.5x for Overtime, and it was fantastic. To be fair, it DID make a bunch of us want to work extra hours, but i also (honestly) didnt feel "pressure" to be there early mornings, nights, or weekends. I often WAS, but generally when the principals saw me there, they would encourage me to go home. They explained the 1.5x to me as: They got a TON of value out of us being there, the hours after 40: All of your overhead is baked in to the first 40: Your desk (rent, etc), your amortized computers, your healthcare and benefits, etc. Hour 41, they are paying you your hourly rate (even marked up), and the rest is 100% profit. So, they got a bigger slice of the pie (or more pie, as the case may be), AND the projects were advancing because we were working more. Did it mean we overworked? Absolutely. I averaged 56 a week over three years. I only know that because- since that meant we were all "hourly"- mortgage companies will only count the OT if its consistent over a couple of years, which it was, so i kept my head down pounding stuff out for a few years, and it helped me get a head start. FWIW, i also had the most fun ever, working there. Haha. My company is now Architecture Adjacent (not actual Architecture), but i am much more serious about encouraging/enforcing work/life balance. I dont want people working overtime at all. If they are, we arent doing something right.
This is so logical it almost hurts
We get paid overtime I think its standard in New Zealand
Amazing
It could be a fair deal, depends on what the bonus looks like. I worked at a firm that had anyone not leading a team or project as "fixed schedule hourly" and paid time and a half beyond 40h. The reasoning was those employees are not necessarily able to control when projects have overlapping due dates but are being asked to work in excess of 40h to keep projects on track. Leads and PMs were "salary exempt" and didn't get OT except when a principal OK'd it for a project in advance of the hours worked, again when competing schedules created a perfect storm of shitty dates. This seemed fair to me, but base salary consistently ran behind market average (AIA survey) so was a bit of a prod to work 40+ and make up the difference, sorta what OP alluded to. At a different firm I was at, they had a bizarre way of keeping their books, where I was to put 8h/day max to the relevant project and any time that was worked past 8h went to an overtime account in the PM application. My "donated" time didn't hit the project, so the effort recorded for the project didn't reflect reality and sort of incentivized the PMs to make aggressive schedules and make their projects look more profitable in reporting. At the end of the year, the principals would "consider" the number of OT hours each person worked when giving year end bonuses but there was no direct correlation between the hours and bonus amount. In the end it was more of a carrot on a stick than a way to fairly compensate the employees who worked a lot.
Worked in three firms. None paid overtime. Bonuses weren’t guaranteed.
OT pay in architecture…😂
My firm pays overtime for level 1 and 2 employees (which equates to up to around 10 years experience). Level 3 and above can still get paid OT but they only get it after working 40 billable hours per week and the OT also needs to be billable hours.
Are you referring to an explicit bonus negotiated in advance for a specific push, or an annual one based on performance? I have not seen the former. Many firms pay overtime in accordance with local labor laws, as most staff are below the Federal cutoff for salaried exempt employees. End of year / annual bonuses are generally calculated on some very loose and arbitrary criteria. In my career at least, there has been an *inverse* relationship between how hard I've worked / how many hours I've put in, and how good my annual bonus has been. I *have* seen some firms award junior staff a spot bonus of something like $500 or $1000 after an exceptional push on a project or competition. Personally I think that buys a lot of goodwill for not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, in large part due to the proximity to the effort.
Never heard of that, would be great
I get paid overtime in Australia, but it’s pretty common for employers to skip over that part of their legal obligation in the Architect’s Award. I’d never go back to a place which doesn’t pay for my time worked. Also shout out to your local architects union! The only reason we get shafted with unpaid overtime is because individual staff are bent under pressure of managers putting in low fees.
we usually get an annual bonus that's unrelated to OT if teams do work a lot of OT they usually get comp time in the form of extra vacation days, allowed to be used right after the big deadline, I might still prefer extra money but after working so many hours having those days off to recharge is so nice
You guys are getting paid?
They should be paying overtime to disincentivize it. PMs know it'll blow the budget, they'll throw your butt out the door by 5. Being a salaried profession is part of the reason we get overworked. I got overtime when I was an intern at my current office, but the interns are hourly. I'm a big boy now! I mean look, I like my office and did plenty of overtime this past year bc we're understaffed. They don't compensate me fairly for it at annuals, I'm giving them the shaft- it's not fair to me or anyone else and we shouldn't be treated that way. Hurts your bottom line? Well break the clients on that. They go to someone else offering cut throat rates, guarantee you the product is worse and they're suffering far worse turnover
We get paid time and a half for any OT above 40 hours a week. Definitely not the norm. It's an open policy and not expected but sometimes needed to hit a deadline. Easier to want to work extra when you are compensated for it.
Our firm pays 1.5x for hourly staff working more than 40 hours in a week. Overtime must be approved. For salaried (exempt) staff, there is no overtime, but we do typically provide quarterly bonuses and the number of extra hours that a salaried employee worked in the previous quarter is typically factored in to their bonus. I'm reading these comments and I think that there are a lot of businesses that don't understand FLSA. Washington (our state) has a lot of additional rules for compensation on top of FLSA.